Survivor: It's Do or Die
May 21, 2014 11:34 PM - Season 28, Episode 13 - Subscribe
On the two hour season finale, the road to the end is never easy.
I really liked Woo by the end and would have been happy to see him win, but he robbed us of seeing Kass stand in front of the jury so I don't feel too bad.
He had a real dilemma because from within the game he probably didn't like his chances against either of them and had to pick mostly based on who he was comfortable losing to.
posted by dogwalker at 1:27 AM on May 22, 2014
He had a real dilemma because from within the game he probably didn't like his chances against either of them and had to pick mostly based on who he was comfortable losing to.
posted by dogwalker at 1:27 AM on May 22, 2014
Tony totally played the better game. But i really didn't like him by the end. Whereas Woo came across as more intelligent and insightful that I had considered. Would have preferred that he win.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:53 PM on May 22, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:53 PM on May 22, 2014 [1 favorite]
Very enjoyable season, and I thought the in studio rejig of the finale was cute, too. I feel like they are more and more recognising that it is a show for fans now and playing to that, it works well I think, and I'm stoked that there will be no returning players next season, the advantage they get is too unfair; all-star or no star is my preference.
I'm glad Tony won, he played harder than anyone else. I still can't believe a just made of mostly serious fans was still so bitter. All this shit about "you swore on your whatever" - duh who gives a shit it's a game, you are an idiot to believe promises, and if a promise is the only thing keeping you in, damn straight you're gonna get voted out, and rightfully so. Bitter juries piss me off lol.
posted by smoke at 12:06 AM on May 23, 2014
I'm glad Tony won, he played harder than anyone else. I still can't believe a just made of mostly serious fans was still so bitter. All this shit about "you swore on your whatever" - duh who gives a shit it's a game, you are an idiot to believe promises, and if a promise is the only thing keeping you in, damn straight you're gonna get voted out, and rightfully so. Bitter juries piss me off lol.
posted by smoke at 12:06 AM on May 23, 2014
All this shit about "you swore on your whatever"
I was laughing so hard at that. Are these people in first grade? "You promised on your father. Does this million mean more than your father's soul?!" What a bunch of infants. Next season somebody should make a bunch of promises cross-my-heart-and-hope-to-die. "You broke your word. DO YOU REALLY HOPE TO DIE?!!"
The jury came across as really bitter and I thought Tony had Hantzed himself out of the win.
Me too, and I think Jeff missed an opportunity during the finale to poll the jury: how many of them were influenced by Spencer's argument for Tony?
The bit about the letter was cool.
posted by cribcage at 5:24 PM on May 23, 2014 [2 favorites]
I was laughing so hard at that. Are these people in first grade? "You promised on your father. Does this million mean more than your father's soul?!" What a bunch of infants. Next season somebody should make a bunch of promises cross-my-heart-and-hope-to-die. "You broke your word. DO YOU REALLY HOPE TO DIE?!!"
The jury came across as really bitter and I thought Tony had Hantzed himself out of the win.
Me too, and I think Jeff missed an opportunity during the finale to poll the jury: how many of them were influenced by Spencer's argument for Tony?
The bit about the letter was cool.
posted by cribcage at 5:24 PM on May 23, 2014 [2 favorites]
Just finished watching the finale (have been out of town on a business trip since Tuesday, staying off my usual web haunts to avoid being spoiled was much harder than I imagined).
Hindsight is always 20/20 on these type of things since you can't predict how things will pan out, but of course now I'm wishing they had stuck to the Final 3 concept, since Kass going out with a whimper and avoiding the angry pitchforks of the jury (which viewers have been anticipating for months) came off as really anti-climactic. The final Tribal Council lacked any drama since Tony winning was inevitable and there was no tension at all between him and Woo.
I'm another one who has never understood why people take "I swear on my _____" promises so seriously. I mean, really, unless one honestly thinks that breaking such a promise will cause a person's loved one to die (or make an already dead person do what in their sworn on grave exactly?) it is a legitimate strategic move and it always makes the person doing the self-righteous speech (Jeremiah and Trish in this case) look far worse than the person they are criticizing. Getting mad at someone for not always being 100% honest in Survivor is like getting mad at someone you are playing Monopoly with for putting hotels on their property.
Interesting that they are going back to the Blood vs. Water concept so quickly. The one last season was great, but it kind of feels like they are returning to the well too soon and risking burning out the concept (kind of like the "All-Star" or "Fans vs. Favorites" seasons where you have to go back to Wikipedia to remind yourself who the players are).
posted by The Gooch at 12:30 AM on May 24, 2014
Hindsight is always 20/20 on these type of things since you can't predict how things will pan out, but of course now I'm wishing they had stuck to the Final 3 concept, since Kass going out with a whimper and avoiding the angry pitchforks of the jury (which viewers have been anticipating for months) came off as really anti-climactic. The final Tribal Council lacked any drama since Tony winning was inevitable and there was no tension at all between him and Woo.
I'm another one who has never understood why people take "I swear on my _____" promises so seriously. I mean, really, unless one honestly thinks that breaking such a promise will cause a person's loved one to die (or make an already dead person do what in their sworn on grave exactly?) it is a legitimate strategic move and it always makes the person doing the self-righteous speech (Jeremiah and Trish in this case) look far worse than the person they are criticizing. Getting mad at someone for not always being 100% honest in Survivor is like getting mad at someone you are playing Monopoly with for putting hotels on their property.
Interesting that they are going back to the Blood vs. Water concept so quickly. The one last season was great, but it kind of feels like they are returning to the well too soon and risking burning out the concept (kind of like the "All-Star" or "Fans vs. Favorites" seasons where you have to go back to Wikipedia to remind yourself who the players are).
posted by The Gooch at 12:30 AM on May 24, 2014
but of course now I'm wishing they had stuck to the Final 3 concept, since Kass going out with a whimper and avoiding the angry pitchforks of the jury
Blame Lindsey. From an interview with Probst: Yes, Lindsey quitting changed our numbers and so instead of a final three we only had enough players for a final two.
posted by Gary at 1:00 AM on May 24, 2014 [1 favorite]
Blame Lindsey. From an interview with Probst: Yes, Lindsey quitting changed our numbers and so instead of a final three we only had enough players for a final two.
posted by Gary at 1:00 AM on May 24, 2014 [1 favorite]
In another interview he mentions that the next Blood vs Water season is all new players.
posted by Gary at 1:06 AM on May 24, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by Gary at 1:06 AM on May 24, 2014 [1 favorite]
That's another thing I'm really excited about. When you see a season of all new players it becomes painfully obvious the huge advantage that returnees have. I prefer *all* returning players, or none.
posted by smoke at 2:10 AM on May 24, 2014
posted by smoke at 2:10 AM on May 24, 2014
I didn't think Tony's win was foregone. He deserved to win, sure. Even Tyler Perry thought so. But in the history of these reality shows (Survivor, Big Brother, etc) it's not uncommon for a jury to hold personal grudges and to reward/penalize on that account. That's exactly what these jurors indicated they were going to do. Moreover, the final speeches matter: Tony kinda sucks at public speaking, and Woo isn't bad. So there was another potential pitfall.
In Big Brother 14, one of the players totally dominated the house with plots, twists, backstabbings, and all kinds of crazy antics. Ultimately the jury voted against him. That could easily have happened to Tony. The game is set up to reward dishonesty at every step but the last one. I agree with Jeff Probst about wanting jurors to recognize that, but sometimes they don't. Sometimes they're plain furious. "You voted me out!"
The problem is that people go on these reality shows expecting to win $1 million instead of expecting to participate in a reality show. They forget the contest is secondary to the television show. Survivor isn't some longstanding thing CBS just randomly decided to broadcast. Players get voted off. That's why people watch. Viewers care less about who wins on episode 13 than about, from week to week, "who's going home tonight?" It's less a contest than a dramatic elimination process.
posted by cribcage at 8:39 AM on May 24, 2014 [1 favorite]
In Big Brother 14, one of the players totally dominated the house with plots, twists, backstabbings, and all kinds of crazy antics. Ultimately the jury voted against him. That could easily have happened to Tony. The game is set up to reward dishonesty at every step but the last one. I agree with Jeff Probst about wanting jurors to recognize that, but sometimes they don't. Sometimes they're plain furious. "You voted me out!"
The problem is that people go on these reality shows expecting to win $1 million instead of expecting to participate in a reality show. They forget the contest is secondary to the television show. Survivor isn't some longstanding thing CBS just randomly decided to broadcast. Players get voted off. That's why people watch. Viewers care less about who wins on episode 13 than about, from week to week, "who's going home tonight?" It's less a contest than a dramatic elimination process.
posted by cribcage at 8:39 AM on May 24, 2014 [1 favorite]
it's not uncommon for a jury to hold personal grudges and to reward/penalize on that account.
I think Tony winning was immeasurably good for the show. A Woo win would have encouraged future "fly under the radar" strategy which makes for really boring viewing.
posted by The Gooch at 10:00 AM on May 24, 2014 [2 favorites]
I think Tony winning was immeasurably good for the show. A Woo win would have encouraged future "fly under the radar" strategy which makes for really boring viewing.
posted by The Gooch at 10:00 AM on May 24, 2014 [2 favorites]
It's difficult to strike the balance between Russell Hantz (who would never be given a win by any jury) and Tony here.
Parvati was right in the reunion show, you have to own up to what you did to the jury. No getting defensive.
Did they announce a fan favorite winner during the reunion? If so, I missed it. I assume if there was one, it was Spencer in a runaway (and he's certainly not played his last day on Survivor).
posted by inturnaround at 2:03 PM on May 24, 2014
Parvati was right in the reunion show, you have to own up to what you did to the jury. No getting defensive.
Did they announce a fan favorite winner during the reunion? If so, I missed it. I assume if there was one, it was Spencer in a runaway (and he's certainly not played his last day on Survivor).
posted by inturnaround at 2:03 PM on May 24, 2014
That's a good point. I don't think they did announce a fan favorite. The other thing I was waiting for was a complete count of the votes. (Maybe I missed that, too.) Did Tony win 5-4, 8-1, etc?
posted by cribcage at 4:22 PM on May 24, 2014
posted by cribcage at 4:22 PM on May 24, 2014
going by tradition - since only one vote was read for woo, only one vote was given for woo. probst likes the drama of that moment and wouldn't have shortchanged it. my guess is trish voted for woo.
posted by nadawi at 7:44 AM on May 25, 2014
posted by nadawi at 7:44 AM on May 25, 2014
It was actually Tasha, they showed her voting for Woo during the show.
posted by The Gooch at 7:47 AM on May 25, 2014
posted by The Gooch at 7:47 AM on May 25, 2014
The Tyler Perry idol was a terrible idea, and Tony's lies about when it could be used wouldn't have worked in a normal season. Almost every time, Jeff will say something about how 'this is the last time you can play an idol', but he didn't this season.
posted by graventy at 8:38 AM on May 25, 2014
posted by graventy at 8:38 AM on May 25, 2014
ah. my mistake - i was watching it very late last night and still haven't watched the reunion.
posted by nadawi at 9:07 AM on May 25, 2014
posted by nadawi at 9:07 AM on May 25, 2014
I think the special idol could have been a terrible idea, but it actually worked out brilliantly. Tony's lie worked because nobody challenged it. One of the episodes did include a comment from Kass about halfway doubting Tony's claim, but even if the doubt was timely (who knows about TV editing), it never went any further. That was a great game move, telling people you're bulletproof so they won't shoot you.
posted by cribcage at 6:38 PM on May 25, 2014
posted by cribcage at 6:38 PM on May 25, 2014
It was a great game move. But no one challenged it, 'cause they were being idiots. That's so infuriating to watch week after week.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:23 AM on May 26, 2014
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:23 AM on May 26, 2014
I don't think there was a fan favorite but RHAP Survivor fans voted for spencer for fan favorite and Rob gave him a nifty trophy. Interview with spencer: http://robhasawebsite.com/survivor-2014-spencer-bledsoe-interview-cagayan-season-podcast/.
I wanted woo to win but also feel a Tony win will make for better future Seasons.
posted by HMSSM at 10:13 PM on May 27, 2014
I wanted woo to win but also feel a Tony win will make for better future Seasons.
posted by HMSSM at 10:13 PM on May 27, 2014
inturnaround: "Did they announce a fan favorite winner during the reunion? If so, I missed it. I assume if there was one, it was Spencer in a runaway (and he's certainly not played his last day on Survivor)."
I just finally watched it last night, and no they didn't. I would have gone with Spencer too until his little speech to the Jury, which I thought was very out of place and was sort of hoping it was against the rules. That just peeved me badly.
Reading even these few comments helped me come to grips with Tony winning though, because I had another "oh man if X person wins I'M NEVER WATCHING THIS SHOW AGAIN" moment. Which I think I sort of do every season.
HMSSM: "I wanted woo to win but also feel a Tony win will make for better future Seasons."
This is probably the best reasoning. Passive/honorable Woo win would in the long run be bad for the show, but I just really get tired of watching the jerk get rewarded.
posted by Big_B at 3:06 PM on May 28, 2014
I just finally watched it last night, and no they didn't. I would have gone with Spencer too until his little speech to the Jury, which I thought was very out of place and was sort of hoping it was against the rules. That just peeved me badly.
Reading even these few comments helped me come to grips with Tony winning though, because I had another "oh man if X person wins I'M NEVER WATCHING THIS SHOW AGAIN" moment. Which I think I sort of do every season.
HMSSM: "I wanted woo to win but also feel a Tony win will make for better future Seasons."
This is probably the best reasoning. Passive/honorable Woo win would in the long run be bad for the show, but I just really get tired of watching the jerk get rewarded.
posted by Big_B at 3:06 PM on May 28, 2014
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Tony found a way to give an over-powered idol even more power with his bluff about being able to use it at the final four. I'm wondering what that's going to do in future seasons when desperate players are going to start making up their own fake rules.
The jury came across as really bitter and I thought Tony had Hantzed himself out of the win. I'm glad he won though. Although he lied constantly I don't remember the same sort of obnoxious comments during the talking head segments with him. He was just playing the game about three times as hard as anyone else.
posted by Gary at 12:00 AM on May 22, 2014 [1 favorite]