The Expanse: Assured Destruction Show Only
April 26, 2018 6:37 PM - Season 3, Episode 3 - Subscribe
Standoffs resolve and stakes rise.
The war, previously limited to the outer planets and the Belt, is brought to Earth. Cotyar is rescued and held in the brig of the UNN Agatha King, where he is interrogated by the two sides struggling to control the direction of the conflict. Jules-Pierre Mao meets the littlest Meng and calls a halt to human experiments with the protomolecule. Avasarala and the crew of the Contorta share information. Amos demonstrates that he knows how to walk in pumps.
Books-included Season 3 thread
The war, previously limited to the outer planets and the Belt, is brought to Earth. Cotyar is rescued and held in the brig of the UNN Agatha King, where he is interrogated by the two sides struggling to control the direction of the conflict. Jules-Pierre Mao meets the littlest Meng and calls a halt to human experiments with the protomolecule. Avasarala and the crew of the Contorta share information. Amos demonstrates that he knows how to walk in pumps.
Books-included Season 3 thread
"The Martians are bonding."
posted by Mogur at 9:02 PM on April 26, 2018 [6 favorites]
posted by Mogur at 9:02 PM on April 26, 2018 [6 favorites]
"Didn't always work in space."
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 9:08 PM on April 26, 2018 [6 favorites]
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 9:08 PM on April 26, 2018 [6 favorites]
Alex plays up his Martian drawl sometimes and drops it at other times. When he's emotional, drunk, or trying to be charming it's more pronounced.
Anyone else's jaw drop at Cotyar's action? I mean, I understand why he did it and it makes total sense for the character, but… holy shit.
I liked the way the bridge officer signaled Souther "your time's up and they're coming" just by turning the power back on.
They'd probably kill each other within a week, but I'm so down with Team Amosarala. Something about those two charming, personable, amoral-or-as-close-to-as-makes-no-difference characters together…
posted by Lexica at 9:26 PM on April 26, 2018 [4 favorites]
Anyone else's jaw drop at Cotyar's action? I mean, I understand why he did it and it makes total sense for the character, but… holy shit.
I liked the way the bridge officer signaled Souther "your time's up and they're coming" just by turning the power back on.
They'd probably kill each other within a week, but I'm so down with Team Amosarala. Something about those two charming, personable, amoral-or-as-close-to-as-makes-no-difference characters together…
posted by Lexica at 9:26 PM on April 26, 2018 [4 favorites]
"Didn't always work in space."
Bobby made a great "Well, okay" face to that line
I liked the way the bridge officer signaled Souther "your time's up and they're coming" just by turning the power back on.
He trusts his people and they trust him. It was good to see.
posted by vibratory manner of working at 11:48 PM on April 26, 2018 [1 favorite]
Bobby made a great "Well, okay" face to that line
I liked the way the bridge officer signaled Souther "your time's up and they're coming" just by turning the power back on.
He trusts his people and they trust him. It was good to see.
posted by vibratory manner of working at 11:48 PM on April 26, 2018 [1 favorite]
Bobby doesn't have a London accent. She speaks like a Kiwi.
posted by kandinski at 12:36 AM on April 27, 2018 [26 favorites]
posted by kandinski at 12:36 AM on April 27, 2018 [26 favorites]
Especially after listening to Cas Anvar in interviews, I thought his Space Texan accent very noticeable. But yeah Bobbie absolutely doesn't sound like a Londoner. That's a plain strong Kiwi accent.
posted by cendawanita at 12:47 AM on April 27, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by cendawanita at 12:47 AM on April 27, 2018 [2 favorites]
A London accent would honestly be Naomi's.
posted by cendawanita at 12:50 AM on April 27, 2018 [11 favorites]
posted by cendawanita at 12:50 AM on April 27, 2018 [11 favorites]
Mars is a nation of immigrants. They’re going to have a bunch of accents. They probably have regional accents in different domes.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 3:24 AM on April 27, 2018 [7 favorites]
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 3:24 AM on April 27, 2018 [7 favorites]
So many good bits. I love how *packed* an Expanse episode can be.
Like this one: Bobby sitting down in Roci's honest-to-God real Martian Marine squad room with her kitbag and unfastening her collar. She's relaxing, she's home...
...and then her eyes light on the defaced Martian flag in the corner. Her face hardens and she zips her collar back up, getting the armor on again.
posted by Mogur at 5:44 AM on April 27, 2018 [11 favorites]
Like this one: Bobby sitting down in Roci's honest-to-God real Martian Marine squad room with her kitbag and unfastening her collar. She's relaxing, she's home...
...and then her eyes light on the defaced Martian flag in the corner. Her face hardens and she zips her collar back up, getting the armor on again.
posted by Mogur at 5:44 AM on April 27, 2018 [11 favorites]
That being said, there was some serious time compression on that UN railgun strike on the missile platforms. It took me out of the scene a bit. Even if the railguns are shooting at near the speed of light, there should still be several minutes' time delay between each of the steps (especially the nuclear retaliation).
posted by Mogur at 5:47 AM on April 27, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by Mogur at 5:47 AM on April 27, 2018 [3 favorites]
Anyone else's jaw drop at Cotyar's action? I mean, I understand why he did it and it makes total sense for the character, but… holy shit.
Oh man yeah, especially because he did actually like the kid. But he sized him up and realized there was no way the guy wouldn’t roll on Avasarala, and took what action he felt was necessary. But we were still shocked in Casa Corb.
posted by corb at 7:00 AM on April 27, 2018 [3 favorites]
Oh man yeah, especially because he did actually like the kid. But he sized him up and realized there was no way the guy wouldn’t roll on Avasarala, and took what action he felt was necessary. But we were still shocked in Casa Corb.
posted by corb at 7:00 AM on April 27, 2018 [3 favorites]
“Frankenstein was the name of the doctor. The monster didn’t have a name.” Prax would make a great internet commenter.
Damn, Strickland. Was that transcranial magnetic hyperstimulation procedure used on Cortázar and the other scientists modelled after your psyche?
Still missing Cotyar’s interactions with Bobbie and Avasarala, but I have a feeling Amos will be filling his place nicely for a while.
Talissa read Alex’s message last week for the egocentric bullshit it was and gave the perfect response. He didn’t send that for them, he sent it for himself, to get closure and make himself feel better about treating them the way he did. But she’s not giving him an easy out — that emotional labour is all yours, Alex.
Will be interested to see where Anna’s reference to the sacrifice of 37 lives fits into the Secretary General’s backstory.
Bobbie’s climbing aboard the Contorta and immediately asserting ownership and treating the crew as subordinate to her — ‘this ship is more mine than yours’, trying to override their plans to go to Io in service of her needs — is a nice reminder that, however much we may like her she’s still a Martian Marine, and has more in common with the show’s stereotype Martian than with the rest of the show’s main characters.
Am I the only one who wants to reach into the screen and punch the Bobblehead (Secretary General) whenever he appears? Something about that combination of smug self-importance, the out-of-my-depth expression he wears whenever a hard decision has to be made, the megalomania and his desire to couch all his decisions in righteousness sets my teeth on edge.
Maybe it’s just that those nasolabial folds make me think of Droopy Dog.
Credit to Nick Tarabay this week — he actually had me believing for a few seconds there that Theo was going to survive … and then I noticed all his calming words were being delivered from Theo’s blind spot.
Bobbie’s massive grin throughout Avasarala’s first encounter with mag boots warms my heart.
Continuing the ‘spot real-world products in the future’ trend: looks like an upside-down Ikea laundry squid on the table when Katoa first comes in to talk to Mei, as they’re being sent off to bed.
Setting up my popcorn and comfortable chair for Errinwright’s inevitable takedown.
posted by myotahapea at 7:48 AM on April 27, 2018 [7 favorites]
Damn, Strickland. Was that transcranial magnetic hyperstimulation procedure used on Cortázar and the other scientists modelled after your psyche?
Still missing Cotyar’s interactions with Bobbie and Avasarala, but I have a feeling Amos will be filling his place nicely for a while.
Talissa read Alex’s message last week for the egocentric bullshit it was and gave the perfect response. He didn’t send that for them, he sent it for himself, to get closure and make himself feel better about treating them the way he did. But she’s not giving him an easy out — that emotional labour is all yours, Alex.
Will be interested to see where Anna’s reference to the sacrifice of 37 lives fits into the Secretary General’s backstory.
Bobbie’s climbing aboard the Contorta and immediately asserting ownership and treating the crew as subordinate to her — ‘this ship is more mine than yours’, trying to override their plans to go to Io in service of her needs — is a nice reminder that, however much we may like her she’s still a Martian Marine, and has more in common with the show’s stereotype Martian than with the rest of the show’s main characters.
Am I the only one who wants to reach into the screen and punch the Bobblehead (Secretary General) whenever he appears? Something about that combination of smug self-importance, the out-of-my-depth expression he wears whenever a hard decision has to be made, the megalomania and his desire to couch all his decisions in righteousness sets my teeth on edge.
Maybe it’s just that those nasolabial folds make me think of Droopy Dog.
Credit to Nick Tarabay this week — he actually had me believing for a few seconds there that Theo was going to survive … and then I noticed all his calming words were being delivered from Theo’s blind spot.
Bobbie’s massive grin throughout Avasarala’s first encounter with mag boots warms my heart.
Continuing the ‘spot real-world products in the future’ trend: looks like an upside-down Ikea laundry squid on the table when Katoa first comes in to talk to Mei, as they’re being sent off to bed.
Setting up my popcorn and comfortable chair for Errinwright’s inevitable takedown.
posted by myotahapea at 7:48 AM on April 27, 2018 [7 favorites]
Her face hardens and she zips her collar back up, getting the armor on again.
Do you think that was funny?
Well, not *now*...
Lots of good Amos this ep.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 9:14 AM on April 27, 2018 [7 favorites]
Do you think that was funny?
Well, not *now*...
Lots of good Amos this ep.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 9:14 AM on April 27, 2018 [7 favorites]
Bobblehead
Is that a book thing? I've seen it mentioned in a few places. He reminds me of Malenkov in Death of Stalin... That said, the delay on the fifth railgun firing seemed a bit convenient.
A London accent would honestly be Naomi's.
Yeah, Dominique Tipper's from East London, so pretty much an old school cockney. Jared Harris's Dawes accent is a variation on a more modern London accent.
posted by rhamphorhynchus at 10:41 AM on April 27, 2018
Is that a book thing? I've seen it mentioned in a few places. He reminds me of Malenkov in Death of Stalin... That said, the delay on the fifth railgun firing seemed a bit convenient.
A London accent would honestly be Naomi's.
Yeah, Dominique Tipper's from East London, so pretty much an old school cockney. Jared Harris's Dawes accent is a variation on a more modern London accent.
posted by rhamphorhynchus at 10:41 AM on April 27, 2018
Is that a book thing?
My bad — it is. 'The Bobblehead' is Avasarala's pet name for Sorrento-Gillis in the books. Some little details like this I tend to forget haven't carried over from books to show.
Jared Harris's Dawes accent is a variation on a more modern London accent.
Interesting; to my ear Dawes sounds more Afrikaner, but I'm neither a linguist nor a native of either culture and so am hardly an expert.
posted by myotahapea at 11:05 AM on April 27, 2018 [8 favorites]
My bad — it is. 'The Bobblehead' is Avasarala's pet name for Sorrento-Gillis in the books. Some little details like this I tend to forget haven't carried over from books to show.
Jared Harris's Dawes accent is a variation on a more modern London accent.
Interesting; to my ear Dawes sounds more Afrikaner, but I'm neither a linguist nor a native of either culture and so am hardly an expert.
posted by myotahapea at 11:05 AM on April 27, 2018 [8 favorites]
Also “I’m no one’s savior” - oh Holden, let’s stop pretending that you don’t think of yourself essentially like this. Like every time.
posted by corb at 11:20 AM on April 27, 2018 [8 favorites]
posted by corb at 11:20 AM on April 27, 2018 [8 favorites]
to my ear Dawes sounds more Afrikaner
Yeah, it's far from a pure accent, but he's putting a lot of MLE in the mix (to my inexpert ear at least).
posted by rhamphorhynchus at 11:20 AM on April 27, 2018 [1 favorite]
Yeah, it's far from a pure accent, but he's putting a lot of MLE in the mix (to my inexpert ear at least).
posted by rhamphorhynchus at 11:20 AM on April 27, 2018 [1 favorite]
With the MLE context yea, it makes a lot more sense. I doubt they cribbed any dialect whole cloth but I can see some of the influences from that article.
(Also, Jafaican! I had a friend who studied linguistics at UCL and did a lot of work on th-fronting, so reading this is bringing back memories.)
posted by myotahapea at 12:09 PM on April 27, 2018 [1 favorite]
(Also, Jafaican! I had a friend who studied linguistics at UCL and did a lot of work on th-fronting, so reading this is bringing back memories.)
posted by myotahapea at 12:09 PM on April 27, 2018 [1 favorite]
So... Avasarala is one hellava anti-Belter racist, keya?
"I'd tell you to cry me a river, if you even knew what that meant." From the undersecretary of the United Nations (known for casual use of gravity-torture), to a Belter? A person whose people live in a state of chronic water and air shortage? That's fucked up.
Earth must come first, unte beltalowda mowsh sasa pelésh imalowda. ("Belters must know their place")
Every colonial power facing an indigenous resistance utters the same refrain. "We don't negotiate with terrorists." "We have no legitimate partners to talk with". They do that as long (upholding the oppression) as possible until forced to do otherwise.
As MLK put it:
Now, yes: race as an idea has no basis in science. It's about tribalism, not genetics.
But that doesn't mean "racism" doesn't exist based on those non-scientific assumptions. And yes, there is a difference between prejudice and racism, as Stokely Carmichael explained:
But how many Pampa Matteo's have been told by inner marines "Fuck you, skinny; We're impounding your cargo. Go the long way around. Hope you have enough air for the trip." How many times has that scenario been played out to the point were Belters talk about living asilik towchu, "like slaves"? When they see the wealth of the Belt going to sustain worlds they can never go to while their own children cough with dirty air filters.
Anderson Station was almost certainly not the only massacre of Belters, just the one that got reported. The inner boot has been on Belter necks for generations at this point, and Torture Granny is a racist.
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 12:54 PM on April 27, 2018 [11 favorites]
"I'd tell you to cry me a river, if you even knew what that meant." From the undersecretary of the United Nations (known for casual use of gravity-torture), to a Belter? A person whose people live in a state of chronic water and air shortage? That's fucked up.
Earth must come first, unte beltalowda mowsh sasa pelésh imalowda. ("Belters must know their place")
Every colonial power facing an indigenous resistance utters the same refrain. "We don't negotiate with terrorists." "We have no legitimate partners to talk with". They do that as long (upholding the oppression) as possible until forced to do otherwise.
As MLK put it:
Freedom is never granted by the oppressor; It is demanded by the oppressedThe OPA motto Milowda na anyimal! ("We are not animals!") comes from people like Avasarala being in power.
Now, yes: race as an idea has no basis in science. It's about tribalism, not genetics.
But that doesn't mean "racism" doesn't exist based on those non-scientific assumptions. And yes, there is a difference between prejudice and racism, as Stokely Carmichael explained:
"If a white man wants to lynch me, that’s his problem. If he’s got the power to lynch me, that’s my problem. Racism is not a question of attitude; it’s a question of power."Yes, that Belter crew spaced those inner refugees. That was inhumane and fucked up. And it was, as far as we can tell, one incident in a newly minted war zone. But it also didn't come out of nowhere. Remember what the crewman told Prax: "Inners wreck Ganymede. Belter life first from now on." Far from a noble sentiment.
But how many Pampa Matteo's have been told by inner marines "Fuck you, skinny; We're impounding your cargo. Go the long way around. Hope you have enough air for the trip." How many times has that scenario been played out to the point were Belters talk about living asilik towchu, "like slaves"? When they see the wealth of the Belt going to sustain worlds they can never go to while their own children cough with dirty air filters.
Anderson Station was almost certainly not the only massacre of Belters, just the one that got reported. The inner boot has been on Belter necks for generations at this point, and Torture Granny is a racist.
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 12:54 PM on April 27, 2018 [11 favorites]
It wasn't so much the prejudice as the weird lack of political nous in saying "we know the OPA don't represent all belters" to try and separate Naomi from the OPA that bothered me about that scene. Like Naomi's just told you she gave Fred Johnson the sample; she's already bet everything on the OPA, and you know it. Avasarala's usually a smarter manipulator than that.
Yes, that Belter crew spaced those inner refugees... And it was... one incident.
Anderson Station was almost certainly not the only massacre of Belters , just the one that got reported.
Your anti-inner prejudice is showing :)
posted by rhamphorhynchus at 1:50 PM on April 27, 2018 [7 favorites]
Yes, that Belter crew spaced those inner refugees... And it was... one incident.
Anderson Station was almost certainly not the only massacre of Belters , just the one that got reported.
Your anti-inner prejudice is showing :)
posted by rhamphorhynchus at 1:50 PM on April 27, 2018 [7 favorites]
Mi na tenye pensating ere deting to ando showxa. (“I have no idea what you’re talking about”)
;-)
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 2:33 PM on April 27, 2018 [4 favorites]
;-)
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 2:33 PM on April 27, 2018 [4 favorites]
Avasarala's usually a smarter manipulator than that.
This is her first trip in space, Mao tried to kill her, the UN is trying to kill her, her only friend/surrogate son is dead as far as she knows, and she just had something akin to a stroke. So she’s not manipulating at her best right now, I’d guess.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 5:21 PM on April 27, 2018 [5 favorites]
This is her first trip in space, Mao tried to kill her, the UN is trying to kill her, her only friend/surrogate son is dead as far as she knows, and she just had something akin to a stroke. So she’s not manipulating at her best right now, I’d guess.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 5:21 PM on April 27, 2018 [5 favorites]
Fair enough. She'd better get her kaka felota together before they get to Io though.
posted by rhamphorhynchus at 5:48 PM on April 27, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by rhamphorhynchus at 5:48 PM on April 27, 2018 [3 favorites]
Not just that, but how often does Avasarala even come in contact with the plebs? She's pretty insulated on Earth, and all her work and personal relationships seem to pull from the same privileged class of Inners. We can likely count on one hand the number of real-time conversations she's had with Belters that didn't involve torture, and I'd lay odds that Naomi was the first where she was on anything resembling equal footing. Girlfriend's out of her depth here, and didn't realise that with Naomi she's on a new playing field, and one she doesn't control.
posted by myotahapea at 3:57 AM on April 28, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by myotahapea at 3:57 AM on April 28, 2018 [1 favorite]
Avasarala is a racist because she is an Earth-first colonialist.
Whenever one group comes in with with guns announcing to the locals “These resources are now ours, our laws are now yours”, racism is the necessary precondition.
In order to subjugate a people and take their resources for your own, one must first dehumanize them. Deny them their inherent human dignity. See “them” as less worthy than “us”. One of Avasaral’s first scenes was some straight-up Abu Ghraib shit.
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 4:47 PM on April 28, 2018
Whenever one group comes in with with guns announcing to the locals “These resources are now ours, our laws are now yours”, racism is the necessary precondition.
In order to subjugate a people and take their resources for your own, one must first dehumanize them. Deny them their inherent human dignity. See “them” as less worthy than “us”. One of Avasaral’s first scenes was some straight-up Abu Ghraib shit.
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 4:47 PM on April 28, 2018
I always thought Harris's Dawes as doing a bit of a Hong Kong / Cantonese accent--he drops his terminal consonants in a very similar way to what you hear in HK, Singapore, etc.
posted by pykrete jungle at 7:12 PM on April 28, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by pykrete jungle at 7:12 PM on April 28, 2018 [3 favorites]
Interesting; to my ear Dawes sounds more Afrikaner, but I'm neither a linguist nor a native of either culture and so am hardly an expert
I hear Afrikaans and cockney. And tsk on not hearing the clipped kiwi vowels of an ex-Shorty star.
posted by Sebmojo at 8:04 PM on April 29, 2018 [1 favorite]
I hear Afrikaans and cockney. And tsk on not hearing the clipped kiwi vowels of an ex-Shorty star.
posted by Sebmojo at 8:04 PM on April 29, 2018 [1 favorite]
On creating the Belter accent (and exorcising the ghost of Jar Jar Binks)
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 9:05 AM on May 1, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 9:05 AM on May 1, 2018 [3 favorites]
Avasarala is a racist because she is an Earth-first colonialist.
Whenever one group comes in with with guns announcing to the locals “These resources are now ours, our laws are now yours”, racism is the necessary precondition.
In order to subjugate a people and take their resources for your own, one must first dehumanize them. Deny them their inherent human dignity. See “them” as less worthy than “us”. One of Avasaral’s first scenes was some straight-up Abu Ghraib shit.
But every citizen of the belt is descended from original "colonists" from earth, no? I've only read the first book, so, if it's not out of bounds to ask, ELI5 me on belt citizenship in this universe. Earth sent folks to the belt explicitly to mine the asteroids, how are those resources suddenly the property of the employees who do the mining, or their families just because they have stayed for generations?
posted by OHenryPacey at 11:15 AM on May 1, 2018 [2 favorites]
Whenever one group comes in with with guns announcing to the locals “These resources are now ours, our laws are now yours”, racism is the necessary precondition.
In order to subjugate a people and take their resources for your own, one must first dehumanize them. Deny them their inherent human dignity. See “them” as less worthy than “us”. One of Avasaral’s first scenes was some straight-up Abu Ghraib shit.
But every citizen of the belt is descended from original "colonists" from earth, no? I've only read the first book, so, if it's not out of bounds to ask, ELI5 me on belt citizenship in this universe. Earth sent folks to the belt explicitly to mine the asteroids, how are those resources suddenly the property of the employees who do the mining, or their families just because they have stayed for generations?
posted by OHenryPacey at 11:15 AM on May 1, 2018 [2 favorites]
how are those resources suddenly the property of the employees..?
Well, they aren't, but the OPA has a pretty decent WMD stockpile these days...
posted by rhamphorhynchus at 1:00 PM on May 1, 2018 [2 favorites]
Well, they aren't, but the OPA has a pretty decent WMD stockpile these days...
posted by rhamphorhynchus at 1:00 PM on May 1, 2018 [2 favorites]
as soon as Theo began babbling I knew what Cotyar was going to do. it was harsh but utterly pragmatic. he didnt want to do it but he didnt hesitate. there are many interesting studies in ruthlessness and hard pragmatism on this show.
posted by supermedusa at 9:19 AM on May 3, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by supermedusa at 9:19 AM on May 3, 2018 [2 favorites]
how are those resources suddenly the property of the employees who do the mining, or their families just because they have stayed for generations?
Does the land rightfully belong to the serfs or the landlord?
posted by bq at 10:10 PM on June 5, 2018 [1 favorite]
Does the land rightfully belong to the serfs or the landlord?
posted by bq at 10:10 PM on June 5, 2018 [1 favorite]
Avasarala: I am going to blow your little minds.
Holden: Oh the hybrid? Yeah, we saw that, killed it, and are heading to where they're making them.
Avasarala: ...
Holden: Oh, also Fred Johnson has protomolecule now.
posted by ckape at 7:16 PM on February 16, 2021 [1 favorite]
Holden: Oh the hybrid? Yeah, we saw that, killed it, and are heading to where they're making them.
Avasarala: ...
Holden: Oh, also Fred Johnson has protomolecule now.
posted by ckape at 7:16 PM on February 16, 2021 [1 favorite]
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He pours it on with his Bobbi interactions, though.
For that matter, Bobbi doesn't have a Mars accent. More of an International (London) accent.
Is this kind of post restricted to the Books-included thread? With all due respect.
posted by porpoise at 8:32 PM on April 26, 2018 [1 favorite]