Steven Universe: A Single Pale Rose
May 7, 2018 8:04 PM - Season 5, Episode 18 - Subscribe
Pearl loses her cell phone.
This is the big one – I can't believe they just revealed the core mystery of the show. I can't wait until Summer. DAMN YOU, CARTOON NETWORK
This is the big one – I can't believe they just revealed the core mystery of the show. I can't wait until Summer. DAMN YOU, CARTOON NETWORK
Once I reassemble my brain I'll have more to say about this episode. First thought: it was a Metafilter post that finally convinced me to start watching this show, some years back now. So I'm thankful for that.
Also, I now feel the need to go back and rewatch the whole series up until this point, just in light of the new revelations. There's so much!
posted by traveler_ at 8:21 PM on May 7, 2018 [3 favorites]
Also, I now feel the need to go back and rewatch the whole series up until this point, just in light of the new revelations. There's so much!
posted by traveler_ at 8:21 PM on May 7, 2018 [3 favorites]
Rev. Syung Myung Me, the actual official description of the show on scheduling services is "Steven helps Pearl find her cell phone." So, good job!
As for the ePiSoDe....
First off, I claim half-correct on my theory a while ago in the Your Mother And Mine thread. I got some bits wrong, but some bits right.
The show has, as with Garnet being a fusion, foreshadowed this for quite a while. While Bismuth said Rose Quartz had been born right in the dirt of Earth, a couple of times in earlier episodes Pearl has said something like "when your mother and I came to Earth."
Fandom reaction is still in the ASFGHJKL stage. Part of that, I think, is that when you have a show as beloved and theorized about as Steven Universe, after a while, any major revelations the writers could make (and they've said that this one predates the first episode!) will upset someone's thoughts about the show.
Anyway, I'll have more to say later. Still letting it sink in.
posted by JHarris at 8:34 PM on May 7, 2018 [2 favorites]
As for the ePiSoDe....
First off, I claim half-correct on my theory a while ago in the Your Mother And Mine thread. I got some bits wrong, but some bits right.
The show has, as with Garnet being a fusion, foreshadowed this for quite a while. While Bismuth said Rose Quartz had been born right in the dirt of Earth, a couple of times in earlier episodes Pearl has said something like "when your mother and I came to Earth."
Fandom reaction is still in the ASFGHJKL stage. Part of that, I think, is that when you have a show as beloved and theorized about as Steven Universe, after a while, any major revelations the writers could make (and they've said that this one predates the first episode!) will upset someone's thoughts about the show.
Anyway, I'll have more to say later. Still letting it sink in.
posted by JHarris at 8:34 PM on May 7, 2018 [2 favorites]
Goddammit Sugar.
I got some mad feelings fam.
Firstly, the episode itself is beautiful. I really like the way it nested, the way we got a walkthrough of Pearl's backstory, the way we got deeper into her trauma. I liked that there was an explanation for why she has never told Steven much about his heritage, and why she never shape shifts. Narratively it's beautiful. And the animation was lovely, and the shifting colour palette was wonderful. Those things I liked.
BUT JESUS CHRIST.
There's a lot I really, really don't like here.
I don't like how Pearl has never been free of her master. I loved Pearl for her extraordinary evolution beyond just being someone who "stands around looking pretty and holding your stuff", but this reveal just changes the context of this so dramatically. She's never been free. She's always been serving her diamond. HSe's still serving her diamond. Every time Steven has complimented her on being a wonderful, whole person, free of her servitude, more than just a pearl, all he's been doing is reinforcing that. For fuck's sake.
And I don't like how this underminds the message of the show, that all things are beautiful, that there's a wonder in ordinary things, that all life is beautiful and worth saving. Rose wasn't just another quartz from Earth, as Bismuth put it. Her rebellion is a teenager sticking it to her family, not a soldier defying genocidal orders. Steven becomes some sort of anime hidden prince, The Mystical Chosen One with a special magical royal past, rather than you know, a meatball with a rock in the middle.
I really hate how this means that she's been lying to her best friends for millennia, that she was fusing with the other Gems under false pretenses, that she just decided she'd have the whole colony of sea monkies at the cost of the death of the rest of her followers. I guess it explains how she could be so self centred about everything, but still. Fuck. I gotta wait now for whatever fucked up hiatus to expire before I can find out how her alleged best friends deal with this.
I mean fuck. I'll give it a few days to sink in a bit more then rewatch and see if I can, you know, be a bit less cosmically disappointed.
posted by Jilder at 8:42 PM on May 7, 2018 [3 favorites]
I got some mad feelings fam.
Firstly, the episode itself is beautiful. I really like the way it nested, the way we got a walkthrough of Pearl's backstory, the way we got deeper into her trauma. I liked that there was an explanation for why she has never told Steven much about his heritage, and why she never shape shifts. Narratively it's beautiful. And the animation was lovely, and the shifting colour palette was wonderful. Those things I liked.
BUT JESUS CHRIST.
There's a lot I really, really don't like here.
I don't like how Pearl has never been free of her master. I loved Pearl for her extraordinary evolution beyond just being someone who "stands around looking pretty and holding your stuff", but this reveal just changes the context of this so dramatically. She's never been free. She's always been serving her diamond. HSe's still serving her diamond. Every time Steven has complimented her on being a wonderful, whole person, free of her servitude, more than just a pearl, all he's been doing is reinforcing that. For fuck's sake.
And I don't like how this underminds the message of the show, that all things are beautiful, that there's a wonder in ordinary things, that all life is beautiful and worth saving. Rose wasn't just another quartz from Earth, as Bismuth put it. Her rebellion is a teenager sticking it to her family, not a soldier defying genocidal orders. Steven becomes some sort of anime hidden prince, The Mystical Chosen One with a special magical royal past, rather than you know, a meatball with a rock in the middle.
I really hate how this means that she's been lying to her best friends for millennia, that she was fusing with the other Gems under false pretenses, that she just decided she'd have the whole colony of sea monkies at the cost of the death of the rest of her followers. I guess it explains how she could be so self centred about everything, but still. Fuck. I gotta wait now for whatever fucked up hiatus to expire before I can find out how her alleged best friends deal with this.
I mean fuck. I'll give it a few days to sink in a bit more then rewatch and see if I can, you know, be a bit less cosmically disappointed.
posted by Jilder at 8:42 PM on May 7, 2018 [3 favorites]
Yeah, JHarris, I'm pretty SAEDLKFASHD about it at the moment. I'd always had the Rose is Pink thing in the same folder as the Lion is Pink and Pink is in the Chest theories. But fuck, man. SU has gone and undermined a lot of common tropes around this sort of heroic story that I had hoped the Pink as Rose was another one they were going to subvert.
posted by Jilder at 8:44 PM on May 7, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by Jilder at 8:44 PM on May 7, 2018 [1 favorite]
Sooooo... Thanos is Pink Diamond and Cartoon Network has just been acquired by Disney/Marvel? And all this time I thought Pink Diamond would turn out to be Sarah Huckabee Sanders... or Melania.
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:46 PM on May 7, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:46 PM on May 7, 2018 [1 favorite]
If it makes you feel better, I saw this episode on an Actual TV, and over the closing credits Cartoon Network played like three seconds of the next episode, in which it was revealed that Sapphire is not okay with it either.
But on the other hand... we saw in the previous episode that Pink Diamond had made serious efforts to convince the other Diamonds to let her abandon the colony. First there's too many organics, then it's too hard to dismantle their cities, then you don't want a colony. The machinery of colony-making had gone too far by that point.
posted by JHarris at 8:49 PM on May 7, 2018 [4 favorites]
But on the other hand... we saw in the previous episode that Pink Diamond had made serious efforts to convince the other Diamonds to let her abandon the colony. First there's too many organics, then it's too hard to dismantle their cities, then you don't want a colony. The machinery of colony-making had gone too far by that point.
posted by JHarris at 8:49 PM on May 7, 2018 [4 favorites]
I'm feeling very Bismuth right now, you know. This explains more fully why Pink Quartz wouldn't take the fight to Homeworld. Just fine to let the foot soldiers get killed, but not her sisters. I'll play dressups as a quartz rather than actively defy my sisters to their faces. I'm go into hiding rather than address that. It's a teenager throwing a fit.`
Yeah, the Totally Legitimate Version I saw over here in Oz had that preview too. Like, if Ruby and Sapphy had issues with Pearl deceiving them over the comms tower, this is going to cause some big fucking ripples.
posted by Jilder at 9:09 PM on May 7, 2018 [1 favorite]
Yeah, the Totally Legitimate Version I saw over here in Oz had that preview too. Like, if Ruby and Sapphy had issues with Pearl deceiving them over the comms tower, this is going to cause some big fucking ripples.
posted by Jilder at 9:09 PM on May 7, 2018 [1 favorite]
Ok, so remember all those bubbled Rose Quartzes floating around in the Human Zoo? I'm really curious about their personalities now, with this reveal. This mean that so far in the show, we've never actually seen a "real" Rose Quartz.
posted by mrjohnmuller at 9:12 PM on May 7, 2018 [5 favorites]
posted by mrjohnmuller at 9:12 PM on May 7, 2018 [5 favorites]
So what's the real underlying driver of the plot now? What's the next ticking time bomb or shocking twist that keeps us tuning in? I can't see anything, but I've checked out of this show for months now and can't recall them setting anything up to be "next". The other Diamonds are just dupes now, there's nothing deeper to them than misunderstanding their sister. I don't care about the off-colors or Sadie's band, their problems are trivial compared to the intergalactic scale the Crystal Gems are working at. Where's the next Cluster Zombie or Mysterious New Gem or Corruption? Sure there are mysteries and fallout to deal with, but those are now more tying up loose ends than waiting for the other shoe to drop.
posted by Small Dollar at 9:15 PM on May 7, 2018
posted by Small Dollar at 9:15 PM on May 7, 2018
For what its worth, Jilder, I hate that stuff too. But from experience I trust this show and where they're going with it, and I suspect Rose hated it too. Pink Diamond was young and immature, and selfish, but starting to mature as she came to love life on Earth. But like a child she avoided the conflict and tried to resolve things using lies and subterfuge, and when that started to fall apart she added more lies and more subterfuge, until it destroyed almost everything she ever cared about.
But yeah I don't think the show isn't going to address exactly what you're saying; from the preview Garnet is about to go all #WeekOfSardonyx 2.0 about the lies.
And then also, I don't believe Pearl's independence is undermined like it seems. Remember Pink Diamond gave her that Final Order As Your Diamond? I don't think any more orders are even possible—that Rose Quartz is not just a fake name or a cover story; Pink Diamond abdicated. More than that, magico-abdicated, became Rose Quartz for real. The whole theme of her rebellion was gems' freedom to become who they wanted to be. Heck Jasper recognized Rose at first sight from her gem, even wrapped in an "I know what a human is" package. Recognized Rose, not Pink.
posted by traveler_ at 9:15 PM on May 7, 2018 [6 favorites]
But yeah I don't think the show isn't going to address exactly what you're saying; from the preview Garnet is about to go all #WeekOfSardonyx 2.0 about the lies.
And then also, I don't believe Pearl's independence is undermined like it seems. Remember Pink Diamond gave her that Final Order As Your Diamond? I don't think any more orders are even possible—that Rose Quartz is not just a fake name or a cover story; Pink Diamond abdicated. More than that, magico-abdicated, became Rose Quartz for real. The whole theme of her rebellion was gems' freedom to become who they wanted to be. Heck Jasper recognized Rose at first sight from her gem, even wrapped in an "I know what a human is" package. Recognized Rose, not Pink.
posted by traveler_ at 9:15 PM on May 7, 2018 [6 favorites]
I don't care about the off-colors or Sadie's band, their problems are trivial compared to the intergalactic scale the Crystal Gems are working at.
Well for one I think the writers disagree about that. But as for major shoes to drop, there's still the Diamonds. I've no doubt if they ever learn who Steven is they'll want to poof him to have a stern talk with their sister. Then of course there's White Diamond, so far unseen and with who knows what motivation. The Cluster is only temporarily pacified so if we want Earth to still be safe another 5000 years from now they'll have to do something permanent. And then there's the corruption, not a major plot driver for a while but the Earth still has thousands of suffering monster-mutants who need healing somehow.
And the off-colors, more of a B-plot right now but hinting at a broader rebellion beyond the Earth. And the "era 2" thing. And whatever's locked in the chest inside Lion—seems like a small thing but so did the cluster on first mention.
But in the short term, I think it's going to be "Crystal Gems re-evaluate their lives" for a while now.
posted by traveler_ at 9:23 PM on May 7, 2018 [3 favorites]
Well for one I think the writers disagree about that. But as for major shoes to drop, there's still the Diamonds. I've no doubt if they ever learn who Steven is they'll want to poof him to have a stern talk with their sister. Then of course there's White Diamond, so far unseen and with who knows what motivation. The Cluster is only temporarily pacified so if we want Earth to still be safe another 5000 years from now they'll have to do something permanent. And then there's the corruption, not a major plot driver for a while but the Earth still has thousands of suffering monster-mutants who need healing somehow.
And the off-colors, more of a B-plot right now but hinting at a broader rebellion beyond the Earth. And the "era 2" thing. And whatever's locked in the chest inside Lion—seems like a small thing but so did the cluster on first mention.
But in the short term, I think it's going to be "Crystal Gems re-evaluate their lives" for a while now.
posted by traveler_ at 9:23 PM on May 7, 2018 [3 favorites]
I don't care about the off-colors or Sadie's band, their problems are trivial compared to the intergalactic scale the Crystal Gems are working at.
For me the B stuff is always about what they're fighting for. Those are the stakes. If the colony had been completed we'd never have had Beach City or the band or the barn, or the arcade or the frybits or any of the things Steven, and by extension the Gems, value.
And then also, I don't believe Pearl's independence is undermined like it seems. Remember Pink Diamond gave her that Final Order As Your Diamond? I don't think any more orders are even possible—that Rose Quartz is not just a fake name or a cover story; Pink Diamond abdicated.
There's a few moments in flashbacks where Rose reminds Pearl she's her own gem and can make her own decisions; the bit on the cliffs with the holoRose is the main one that springs to mind. It doesn't matter what Rose's status is, for me it matters what Pearl's psychology responds and right now all I'm seeing is the intern doing whatever the CEO they're dating tells them to do outside of office hours. Like, the power dynamic there is so out of whack that I can't see that relationship as anything other than Rose exploiting Pearl now. I really hope you're right and there's something coming down the pipes that changes that perspective, but right now, it's fucking gross as hell.
Heck Jasper recognized Rose at first sight from her gem, even wrapped in an "I know what a human is" package. Recognized Rose, not Pink.
Which also irritates the everliving hell out of me. This is the Gidjie Star, it's a massive pink diamond. Turn it on its side and it does not magically look like a faceted rose quartz. I mean, I know we're into "Jilder, calm down, it's children's television, go have a nap" territory here, but honestly.
And speaking of Jasper, if Pink had kept her status, and fought off her sisters with literally every gem her colony had produced, I imagine that would have been a much more efficient use of that carnage, don't you think?
posted by Jilder at 9:39 PM on May 7, 2018 [3 favorites]
For me the B stuff is always about what they're fighting for. Those are the stakes. If the colony had been completed we'd never have had Beach City or the band or the barn, or the arcade or the frybits or any of the things Steven, and by extension the Gems, value.
And then also, I don't believe Pearl's independence is undermined like it seems. Remember Pink Diamond gave her that Final Order As Your Diamond? I don't think any more orders are even possible—that Rose Quartz is not just a fake name or a cover story; Pink Diamond abdicated.
There's a few moments in flashbacks where Rose reminds Pearl she's her own gem and can make her own decisions; the bit on the cliffs with the holoRose is the main one that springs to mind. It doesn't matter what Rose's status is, for me it matters what Pearl's psychology responds and right now all I'm seeing is the intern doing whatever the CEO they're dating tells them to do outside of office hours. Like, the power dynamic there is so out of whack that I can't see that relationship as anything other than Rose exploiting Pearl now. I really hope you're right and there's something coming down the pipes that changes that perspective, but right now, it's fucking gross as hell.
Heck Jasper recognized Rose at first sight from her gem, even wrapped in an "I know what a human is" package. Recognized Rose, not Pink.
Which also irritates the everliving hell out of me. This is the Gidjie Star, it's a massive pink diamond. Turn it on its side and it does not magically look like a faceted rose quartz. I mean, I know we're into "Jilder, calm down, it's children's television, go have a nap" territory here, but honestly.
And speaking of Jasper, if Pink had kept her status, and fought off her sisters with literally every gem her colony had produced, I imagine that would have been a much more efficient use of that carnage, don't you think?
posted by Jilder at 9:39 PM on May 7, 2018 [3 favorites]
IMA GO HAVE A NAP.
posted by Jilder at 9:40 PM on May 7, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by Jilder at 9:40 PM on May 7, 2018 [3 favorites]
One last thought before bed: I suspect Greg changing his name to Universe (from DeMayo) is a nod to that theme of "becoming who you choose to be".
posted by traveler_ at 10:18 PM on May 7, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by traveler_ at 10:18 PM on May 7, 2018 [1 favorite]
I loved this and I love how terrible and manipulative and capricious Rose is, how she made her last order to Pearl not when they were equals but when Pearl was still her servant. More and more of that Rose has been creeping into the show over the years and it's just a real satisfying character beat to me. She was beatific and loving and kind but also kind of a shitty, selfish "person" (wow does this make "But I'm not...a person" to Greg come up in a new context, along with EVERYTHING ELSE). I get that it might not be everybody's thing but I've been enjoying it a lot, and while I only guessed half of this reveal with Pearl shattering Pink, hat tip to the Pink Diamond Truthers out there. You guys carried the flame.
This is the most hyped up I've been about SU in a while, I'm really excited to see the emotional fallout, aka what this show does best.
posted by colorblock sock at 10:35 PM on May 7, 2018 [15 favorites]
This is the most hyped up I've been about SU in a while, I'm really excited to see the emotional fallout, aka what this show does best.
posted by colorblock sock at 10:35 PM on May 7, 2018 [15 favorites]
When I was watching this episode, I was thinking, man, I'm going to have to talk about how metaphysically interesting Pearl's interior space is. Physically present alternate nested versions of her consciousness going back in time and deeper into her psyche? That still have agency in the present, seemingly, because deepest pearl has the cell phone? Slow down, Charlie Kaufman, some of us have work in the morning.
And then we get to the reveal, which isn't just that Rose is PD, but that Rose is way more fucked up then we ever realized. Getting Pearl to go through with the lie by tempting her with romance and then immediately mind controlling her into silence as a superior? That's some sick shit.
It sheds some new light on Rose's sacrifice to give birth to Steven, to me. PD becoming Rose has a lot of reasonce with Rose becoming Steven. Did it come out of the same kind of rebellion against her own identity, or was it the product of thousands of years of growth and development that made her want to do something truly selfless?
It definitely makes me wonder where they're going with the show. Short term, obviously some emotional fallout for the crystal gems and for Steven. Mythology wise, and longer term.... I don't know.
If this show gets more seasons, I think you could do an entire season about a new pink diamond gem, newly emerged from a kindergarten on a black hole or whatever as a copy of the first, but raised with the aim of preventing her empathy with non-gems. She's come to earth to take over PD's colony, and then you do the whole terrifying villian to ally arc, with the added complication that Steven understands that once he was a being precisely as complicated and ruthless and manipulative.
posted by Rinku at 11:31 PM on May 7, 2018 [9 favorites]
And then we get to the reveal, which isn't just that Rose is PD, but that Rose is way more fucked up then we ever realized. Getting Pearl to go through with the lie by tempting her with romance and then immediately mind controlling her into silence as a superior? That's some sick shit.
It sheds some new light on Rose's sacrifice to give birth to Steven, to me. PD becoming Rose has a lot of reasonce with Rose becoming Steven. Did it come out of the same kind of rebellion against her own identity, or was it the product of thousands of years of growth and development that made her want to do something truly selfless?
It definitely makes me wonder where they're going with the show. Short term, obviously some emotional fallout for the crystal gems and for Steven. Mythology wise, and longer term.... I don't know.
If this show gets more seasons, I think you could do an entire season about a new pink diamond gem, newly emerged from a kindergarten on a black hole or whatever as a copy of the first, but raised with the aim of preventing her empathy with non-gems. She's come to earth to take over PD's colony, and then you do the whole terrifying villian to ally arc, with the added complication that Steven understands that once he was a being precisely as complicated and ruthless and manipulative.
posted by Rinku at 11:31 PM on May 7, 2018 [9 favorites]
AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
* more screaming *
posted by numaner at 12:13 AM on May 8, 2018 [1 favorite]
* more screaming *
posted by numaner at 12:13 AM on May 8, 2018 [1 favorite]
Mr_Splashteen:
Infinity War: Our ending had fans stunned. Nothing can make people more stunned
Steven Universe: Hold my beer
posted by numaner at 12:19 AM on May 8, 2018 [16 favorites]
Infinity War: Our ending had fans stunned. Nothing can make people more stunned
Steven Universe: Hold my beer
posted by numaner at 12:19 AM on May 8, 2018 [16 favorites]
I'm gonna need a day a several rewatches before I even know how to gather my thoughts
posted by numaner at 12:46 AM on May 8, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by numaner at 12:46 AM on May 8, 2018 [1 favorite]
AND I'M JUST NOW REALIZING that Stevonnie's VA is AJ Michalka, sister to Aly Michalka who is Peyton on iZombie.
too many realizations tonight. i should go to bed.
posted by numaner at 12:59 AM on May 8, 2018 [1 favorite]
too many realizations tonight. i should go to bed.
posted by numaner at 12:59 AM on May 8, 2018 [1 favorite]
Okay so I went and asked not one but two geologists of my acquaintance and they were both agog at the idea that you could confuse a pink diamond for a rose quartz. The bar was full and very noisy, and I'm not a scientician so I missed a lot, but apparently you'd need to be blind in both eyes.
So that's a thing, Sugar.
posted by Jilder at 4:40 AM on May 8, 2018
So that's a thing, Sugar.
posted by Jilder at 4:40 AM on May 8, 2018
That sound you hear? That sound you've been hearing since the episode? That is a large fraction of the internet saying "Caaaaaaallled it!".
Thoughts: Pearl makes a lot more sense. "I'm good at compartmentalizing so I get to be the surface." Pretty much sims it up there.
Doesn't this mean Steven's a Diamond? One wonders if he's going to be able to find a way to reveal that, and if so, what the consequences are. I mean, aside from all the homeworld gems they've interacted with doing whatever the gem physiological equivalent of "shitting bricks" is once the word gets out.
I can see how Pink Diamond made her big mistake. We know she was immature for a Diamond. She assumed that Blue and Yellow didn't care about her and didn't value her, so once she's gone they'd loose interest in the earth if the resistance was strong enough. Turns out, no, however frustrated they were at Pink's behaviour, Blue and Yellow both still cared about her. Blue to the point of millennia long depression and hoarding Pink's humans after her apparent death. Yellow to the point of a millennia long genocidal grudge. So, the next Diamond thanksgiving dinner is probably going to be a tense one.
I really feel like Pink/Rose had Steven as a way to try and fix things somehow. I know the show said that Steven didn't have any particular magical destiny. At the same time, not having a magical destiny is not the same thing as "I'm going to roll the dice that a human version of me can fix some of what the Rose Quartz version of me broke".
Speaking of fixing, Steven needs to find a way to un-corrupt Jasper. Because as I said before, what Pink/Rose did to her is beyond monstrous.
posted by Grimgrin at 6:09 AM on May 8, 2018 [4 favorites]
Thoughts: Pearl makes a lot more sense. "I'm good at compartmentalizing so I get to be the surface." Pretty much sims it up there.
Doesn't this mean Steven's a Diamond? One wonders if he's going to be able to find a way to reveal that, and if so, what the consequences are. I mean, aside from all the homeworld gems they've interacted with doing whatever the gem physiological equivalent of "shitting bricks" is once the word gets out.
I can see how Pink Diamond made her big mistake. We know she was immature for a Diamond. She assumed that Blue and Yellow didn't care about her and didn't value her, so once she's gone they'd loose interest in the earth if the resistance was strong enough. Turns out, no, however frustrated they were at Pink's behaviour, Blue and Yellow both still cared about her. Blue to the point of millennia long depression and hoarding Pink's humans after her apparent death. Yellow to the point of a millennia long genocidal grudge. So, the next Diamond thanksgiving dinner is probably going to be a tense one.
I really feel like Pink/Rose had Steven as a way to try and fix things somehow. I know the show said that Steven didn't have any particular magical destiny. At the same time, not having a magical destiny is not the same thing as "I'm going to roll the dice that a human version of me can fix some of what the Rose Quartz version of me broke".
Speaking of fixing, Steven needs to find a way to un-corrupt Jasper. Because as I said before, what Pink/Rose did to her is beyond monstrous.
posted by Grimgrin at 6:09 AM on May 8, 2018 [4 favorites]
I think "But how could she disguise her gem?" Was the main thing that made me doubt Rose Quartz = Pink Diamond. It seems like gems are better at identifying each other than humans are, but consider that early on Pink Diamond bubbled all her Rose Quartzes and there's only one Pink Diamond. It's entirely possible that actual Rose Quartzes are significantly different from Pink's depiction of a Rose and she took steps to make sure everyone would associate her gem with Rose Quartz instead of Pink Diamond. Raises questions of what the other Rose Quartzes would think if Steven went back and freed them. Also raises questions of what Jasper would do if Steven commanded her as her diamond.
This also provides a path to undoing the corruption. If three diamonds can cause corruption perhaps three diamonds can cure it? Hmmmm.
Is it bad that I'm excited for more Crystal Gems-focused episodes as they deal with the fallout from this? I'd be pissed too if I were Sapphire. Maybe Sapphire will be separate long enough to seek help from other allies, ones that have been bubbled perhaps? It's too bad we see her teleport away and not run into Sapphire's room of the temple.
I'm also pissed about the implications for Pearl. A comfortable collar is still a collar. Pearl became a fighter because her diamond wanted to fight. She became free because her diamond wanted to be free. She loves Rose Quartz because she was MADE to love Rose Quartz. Does anyone doubt if Steven gave her an order as her diamond she would have to obey? He wouldn't, probably, but just because your master doesn't give you unpleasant orders doesn't mean you're not a slave. I hope there's an episode that addresses this and Steven does something to undo this millennia-old situation (The mental image of Pearl wide-eyed then bounding off like a fightened deer as soon as she's actually truly free comes unbidden into my mind).
I still think Rose didn't intend for Steven to have to deal with any of her shitty past. She really thought it was water under the bridge and the Earth was safe. She wanted to make something new, the next step in Gem evolution, maybe something that would someday be able to unite Gemkind and organic life, but not something that would have to dig through her shitty past and fix her shitty mistakes.
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 6:48 AM on May 8, 2018 [6 favorites]
This also provides a path to undoing the corruption. If three diamonds can cause corruption perhaps three diamonds can cure it? Hmmmm.
Is it bad that I'm excited for more Crystal Gems-focused episodes as they deal with the fallout from this? I'd be pissed too if I were Sapphire. Maybe Sapphire will be separate long enough to seek help from other allies, ones that have been bubbled perhaps? It's too bad we see her teleport away and not run into Sapphire's room of the temple.
I'm also pissed about the implications for Pearl. A comfortable collar is still a collar. Pearl became a fighter because her diamond wanted to fight. She became free because her diamond wanted to be free. She loves Rose Quartz because she was MADE to love Rose Quartz. Does anyone doubt if Steven gave her an order as her diamond she would have to obey? He wouldn't, probably, but just because your master doesn't give you unpleasant orders doesn't mean you're not a slave. I hope there's an episode that addresses this and Steven does something to undo this millennia-old situation (The mental image of Pearl wide-eyed then bounding off like a fightened deer as soon as she's actually truly free comes unbidden into my mind).
I still think Rose didn't intend for Steven to have to deal with any of her shitty past. She really thought it was water under the bridge and the Earth was safe. She wanted to make something new, the next step in Gem evolution, maybe something that would someday be able to unite Gemkind and organic life, but not something that would have to dig through her shitty past and fix her shitty mistakes.
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 6:48 AM on May 8, 2018 [6 favorites]
I also think Yellow does have something to hide regarding Pink's "shattering" but it's more along the lines of "I was using Pink's failed colony to conduct my own secret fucked up forced fusion experiments and I'm prefectly happy to leave her death uninvestigated."
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 7:03 AM on May 8, 2018 [5 favorites]
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 7:03 AM on May 8, 2018 [5 favorites]
I can't believe the PD truthers were right! My theories were:
1. Pearl shapeshifted to look like Rose
2. Pearl used some method to be revealed to shatter PD, possibly without telling Rose she was going to do it, thus the guilt/trauma because maybe Rose was angry at her for doing it/it led to the corruption blast
3. OR either Pearl or Rose only poofed PD and PD was bubbled in the trunk (which would explain Steven getting her visions; she still existed and part of him knows it)
What the fuck, show.
Over on Reddit, they are pointing out that actual Pearls are in fact made of layers so Pearls inside Pearls is a most excellent use of metaphor for many reasons.
Anyway, the more we learn about Rose/PD the more we realize the best parts of Steven are pretty much Greg.
Pearl remains Best Gem and no one can tell me different. She just really needs a hug and a nice girlfriend, and judging by the number of phone numbers she has in storage, this is very possible! Get it Pearl.
Also Pearl's outfit at the time of the "shattering" was really pretty. But she's still wearing all the Diamond's colors and I still wonder if she was made by White and then gifted by all three of the diamonds to Pink, thus the multi-colors.
There is also the line in "It's Over Isn't It," where Pearl sings "Out in daylight my potential/Bold, precise, experimental..." I wonder if Pearl is some kind of specialty Pearl not done before or since, thus again, the colors.
posted by emjaybee at 7:15 AM on May 8, 2018 [6 favorites]
1. Pearl shapeshifted to look like Rose
2. Pearl used some method to be revealed to shatter PD, possibly without telling Rose she was going to do it, thus the guilt/trauma because maybe Rose was angry at her for doing it/it led to the corruption blast
3. OR either Pearl or Rose only poofed PD and PD was bubbled in the trunk (which would explain Steven getting her visions; she still existed and part of him knows it)
What the fuck, show.
Over on Reddit, they are pointing out that actual Pearls are in fact made of layers so Pearls inside Pearls is a most excellent use of metaphor for many reasons.
Anyway, the more we learn about Rose/PD the more we realize the best parts of Steven are pretty much Greg.
Pearl remains Best Gem and no one can tell me different. She just really needs a hug and a nice girlfriend, and judging by the number of phone numbers she has in storage, this is very possible! Get it Pearl.
Also Pearl's outfit at the time of the "shattering" was really pretty. But she's still wearing all the Diamond's colors and I still wonder if she was made by White and then gifted by all three of the diamonds to Pink, thus the multi-colors.
There is also the line in "It's Over Isn't It," where Pearl sings "Out in daylight my potential/Bold, precise, experimental..." I wonder if Pearl is some kind of specialty Pearl not done before or since, thus again, the colors.
posted by emjaybee at 7:15 AM on May 8, 2018 [6 favorites]
I'm incredibly psyched about this development and how it recasts everything before it -- yes, a lot of people guessed, and that robbed it of a little power, but being unspoiled isn't everything.
What I'm excited about at this very moment: it's EXACTLY THE SAME REVEAL AS STAR WARS but they pulled it off in a fully original way.
posted by thesmallmachine at 8:20 AM on May 8, 2018 [3 favorites]
What I'm excited about at this very moment: it's EXACTLY THE SAME REVEAL AS STAR WARS but they pulled it off in a fully original way.
posted by thesmallmachine at 8:20 AM on May 8, 2018 [3 favorites]
Not to defend Rose too much, but I think it is possible to understand her actions, and even appreciate them. Particularly, this throws a ton of stuff we've heard Rose say throughout the show in a new light, especially her words in Greg The Babysitter, where she enthuses about how humans are allowed to discover who they are for themselves.
Our introduction to Pink Diamond reveals that she was kind of a brat. Gems have no opportunity to grow up, but are instilled with everything it's considered they should know on creation. This makes gems much more a product of that set knowledge, effectively their programming, than human beings. One could argue that Pink Diamond's programming plus Pink Diamond's situation unavoidably would have produced what happened.
Yet, as we've seen with Peridot, it is possible for a gem to develop beyond their provided knowledge and abilities. Brought into contact with the freer culture of Earth, she became infatuated with humanity. Struggling to understand it, first she decided to preserve a sample of its life, but humans without the Earth were deprived of much of what made them special. (Speaking of which: remember when Pearl spoke so disapprovingly of the Human Zoo? Did she herself have a hand in making it?)
As for mind-controlling Pearl, I think this should be seen as indicative of what Pearls are. Made to serve, if given a direct order they cannot go against it, even after 5,000 years, even after the context and purpose of the order are long gone, without going through some mental gymnastics and artful self-deception. It is possible that there was no way to repair her, that Pink Diamond even tried at some point. (I'm given to wondering how Pearls are made; if it's in a manner similar to Earth Pearls, with an object at the core, it's possible that the object is a tiny piece of the superior's gem, making Pearl like an extension of PD.)
However, that also puts Pearl's argument with Steven in Warp Tour in a new light. Whatever Pearl's after-history is, and whatever Pink Diamond has done to herself in the transition through Rose Quartz and then Steven, it's separated that link far enough so that the two can have an active, even rancorous disagreement. And in Rose's Scabbard, remember when Pearl almost let Steven fall to his death? (Last One Out Of Beach City, Steven: "I haven't been this scared since that time you almost let me die!") Those aren't the actions of an obsequious follower. And it's possible one (of an increasing number) of reasons that Rose gave herself up for Steven was to further that distance a bit more. If Steven were to now say, "Pearl, I command you to stop silencing yourself whenever you try to say 'Rose Quartz is Pink Diamond.'," would it have any effect?
posted by JHarris at 8:42 AM on May 8, 2018 [5 favorites]
Our introduction to Pink Diamond reveals that she was kind of a brat. Gems have no opportunity to grow up, but are instilled with everything it's considered they should know on creation. This makes gems much more a product of that set knowledge, effectively their programming, than human beings. One could argue that Pink Diamond's programming plus Pink Diamond's situation unavoidably would have produced what happened.
Yet, as we've seen with Peridot, it is possible for a gem to develop beyond their provided knowledge and abilities. Brought into contact with the freer culture of Earth, she became infatuated with humanity. Struggling to understand it, first she decided to preserve a sample of its life, but humans without the Earth were deprived of much of what made them special. (Speaking of which: remember when Pearl spoke so disapprovingly of the Human Zoo? Did she herself have a hand in making it?)
As for mind-controlling Pearl, I think this should be seen as indicative of what Pearls are. Made to serve, if given a direct order they cannot go against it, even after 5,000 years, even after the context and purpose of the order are long gone, without going through some mental gymnastics and artful self-deception. It is possible that there was no way to repair her, that Pink Diamond even tried at some point. (I'm given to wondering how Pearls are made; if it's in a manner similar to Earth Pearls, with an object at the core, it's possible that the object is a tiny piece of the superior's gem, making Pearl like an extension of PD.)
However, that also puts Pearl's argument with Steven in Warp Tour in a new light. Whatever Pearl's after-history is, and whatever Pink Diamond has done to herself in the transition through Rose Quartz and then Steven, it's separated that link far enough so that the two can have an active, even rancorous disagreement. And in Rose's Scabbard, remember when Pearl almost let Steven fall to his death? (Last One Out Of Beach City, Steven: "I haven't been this scared since that time you almost let me die!") Those aren't the actions of an obsequious follower. And it's possible one (of an increasing number) of reasons that Rose gave herself up for Steven was to further that distance a bit more. If Steven were to now say, "Pearl, I command you to stop silencing yourself whenever you try to say 'Rose Quartz is Pink Diamond.'," would it have any effect?
posted by JHarris at 8:42 AM on May 8, 2018 [5 favorites]
Also: there is a clue that Sapphire may have suspected for a while. Remember when Garnet almost split apart in Keeping It Together? Remember how her two halves argued within her? The question was, did Rose know about the forced fusions? How could she have, unless she were actually a Diamond? (Although there, I believe it was actually Ruby that was doing the accusing.)
You could view all of PD/Rose's actions as successive attempts to undo the damage done by her insistence that she needed her own colony. And yet, the other diamonds have made this decision many times. They may be in a position where acknowledging that organic life has value means accepting that they have been guilty of multiple genocides each.
BTW, off in anime world, remember Vegeta? How many planets did he blow up, destroying how many civilizations along the way? I think maybe there was a later episode where he made a Dragon Ball wish that brought them all back, as incidental to something else that needed happening (maybe Earth needed to be restored again again), but still, he never seemed particularly repentant. I wonder if this all might be a sly way of Rebecca Sugar questioning that anime trope?
Anyway, at least we finally know why Rose kept so many secrets, guh-huck!
posted by JHarris at 9:59 AM on May 8, 2018 [1 favorite]
You could view all of PD/Rose's actions as successive attempts to undo the damage done by her insistence that she needed her own colony. And yet, the other diamonds have made this decision many times. They may be in a position where acknowledging that organic life has value means accepting that they have been guilty of multiple genocides each.
BTW, off in anime world, remember Vegeta? How many planets did he blow up, destroying how many civilizations along the way? I think maybe there was a later episode where he made a Dragon Ball wish that brought them all back, as incidental to something else that needed happening (maybe Earth needed to be restored again again), but still, he never seemed particularly repentant. I wonder if this all might be a sly way of Rebecca Sugar questioning that anime trope?
Anyway, at least we finally know why Rose kept so many secrets, guh-huck!
posted by JHarris at 9:59 AM on May 8, 2018 [1 favorite]
So is this the first time we've been inside someone's gem? It feels like the fact that this is possible should be a bigger deal, but it's not surprising it gets kinda overshadowed.
I... actually really liked this reveal. Initially, i was a bit disappointed it was the most obvious theory that turned out to be right all along, but enormous twists are only really enjoyable once, and this is kind of the perfect escalation of a whole bunch of long-running themes - Rose's fraught relationship with the truth/goodness, Steven's fraught relationship with his mother's legacy, etc. And these are only going to get more fraught! Man!
So - was there ever an "original" rose quartz, or was pink diamond leading the rebellion from the start? Augh, I can't wait whatever arbitrary length of time it is 'til the next episode!
posted by Berreggnog at 4:35 PM on May 8, 2018 [4 favorites]
I... actually really liked this reveal. Initially, i was a bit disappointed it was the most obvious theory that turned out to be right all along, but enormous twists are only really enjoyable once, and this is kind of the perfect escalation of a whole bunch of long-running themes - Rose's fraught relationship with the truth/goodness, Steven's fraught relationship with his mother's legacy, etc. And these are only going to get more fraught! Man!
So - was there ever an "original" rose quartz, or was pink diamond leading the rebellion from the start? Augh, I can't wait whatever arbitrary length of time it is 'til the next episode!
posted by Berreggnog at 4:35 PM on May 8, 2018 [4 favorites]
My impression/assumption was that storing stuff in gems was a pearl thing specifically -- we don't see any other gem types storing things inside themselves, right?
posted by inconstant at 4:57 PM on May 8, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by inconstant at 4:57 PM on May 8, 2018 [1 favorite]
It was established early on that Pearl could store items inside her gem (I think the first time we see this is when she takes the police tape out in Lars and the Cool Kids) but it's interesting to note that the first thing we see when Steven enters the gem is the collection of identical spears. It's never been clear how exactly gems summon a weapon, so it seems possible that Pearl isn't summoning a spear so much as pulling out a stored spear? I'm sure we've seen a Pearl spear evaporate at some point in the series, so they can't be actual physical objects? And Bismuth complimented Amethyst on her whip like being able to summon a whip was tied to her innate strength (I think the implication is whips are generally an Agate weapon*). Maybe Amethyst and Garnet (and Steven) actually summon their weapons but Pearl fakes it?
Does it matter? Not really. I enjoyed the dreamlike quality of the interior of Pearl's gem and how progressing deeper into Pearl's psyche involved going through layers of Pearl. I liked how each Pearl beyond "surface pearl" represented a trauma in Pearl's life: Rose giving birth to Steven, The destruction of the Crystal Gems, the "shattering" of Pink Diamond.
* Yo, new theory now that RQ=PD is confirmed: Amethyst is actually a Purple Agate, and was supposed to be the leader of the amethysts that emerged around her.
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 5:19 PM on May 8, 2018 [1 favorite]
Does it matter? Not really. I enjoyed the dreamlike quality of the interior of Pearl's gem and how progressing deeper into Pearl's psyche involved going through layers of Pearl. I liked how each Pearl beyond "surface pearl" represented a trauma in Pearl's life: Rose giving birth to Steven, The destruction of the Crystal Gems, the "shattering" of Pink Diamond.
* Yo, new theory now that RQ=PD is confirmed: Amethyst is actually a Purple Agate, and was supposed to be the leader of the amethysts that emerged around her.
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 5:19 PM on May 8, 2018 [1 favorite]
This also provides a path to undoing the corruption. If three diamonds can cause corruption perhaps three diamonds can cure it? Hmmmm.
I've long had a suspicion that the Diamond attack was meant to destroy, not corrupt, or at least not in the way we've seen. My theory is based on the fact that most of the corrupted forms seem similar to Earth life, which the Diamonds wouldn't be too concerned with, and have abilities (like birthing spawn) that seem alien to gem-kind. Instead, maybe the gems themselves unconsciously "fixed" themselves by replacing destroyed aspects of themselves with forms observed from nearby creatures?
posted by JHarris at 10:07 PM on May 8, 2018
I've long had a suspicion that the Diamond attack was meant to destroy, not corrupt, or at least not in the way we've seen. My theory is based on the fact that most of the corrupted forms seem similar to Earth life, which the Diamonds wouldn't be too concerned with, and have abilities (like birthing spawn) that seem alien to gem-kind. Instead, maybe the gems themselves unconsciously "fixed" themselves by replacing destroyed aspects of themselves with forms observed from nearby creatures?
posted by JHarris at 10:07 PM on May 8, 2018
So... what’s in the trunk?
White Diamond.
posted by Pendragon at 12:31 AM on May 9, 2018 [2 favorites]
White Diamond.
posted by Pendragon at 12:31 AM on May 9, 2018 [2 favorites]
i want whatever phone plan that works from a pocket dimension. my service dies if i go across town
posted by eustatic at 1:03 AM on May 9, 2018 [6 favorites]
posted by eustatic at 1:03 AM on May 9, 2018 [6 favorites]
I burst out laughing at the Garnet/Amethyst reaction at the end.
Not really sure how I feel about the Rose is Pink Diamond reveal yet - mostly I want to see what the fallout is before I decide. With SU, the only thing that I really feel like I know about the situation is that it's complicated.
posted by dinty_moore at 6:38 AM on May 9, 2018 [3 favorites]
Not really sure how I feel about the Rose is Pink Diamond reveal yet - mostly I want to see what the fallout is before I decide. With SU, the only thing that I really feel like I know about the situation is that it's complicated.
posted by dinty_moore at 6:38 AM on May 9, 2018 [3 favorites]
As far as the Pearls inside Pearls inside Pearl's pearl -- I wonder if she's ever accidentally lost things to the inner Pearls. I certainly feel like I do.
posted by inconstant at 8:27 AM on May 9, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by inconstant at 8:27 AM on May 9, 2018 [3 favorites]
So I've been reading a lot of opinions about this episode, and I find that many people were either really satisfied because this was the theory they wanted to happen, or they're mad because it's the theory they didn't wanted to happen. And a small percentage that I fell into were people that were really shocked because they didn't really spend any time theorizing about the show and got a great kick out of it. I think I'm mostly still just going nuts in my head at this point, and not really judging the show for the reveal yet. I love the show so far, and I'm excited to see where it's going. But based on my past experience with trying to guess the stories of TV shows and being disappointed like many people are now, I've taken to watch the shows I do now with little or no expectations of the story line. Sure, sometimes it's obvious and you can't help but point it out (*cough* DC shows on CW *cough*), but for this kind of show where I basically have no idea where it's going, I like to just sit back and enjoy the ride.
For a show like this where the creators had a definite ending in mind for the entire series, I like to judge the whole thing once it's done. I've had similar success with Avatar: The Last Airbender and The Legend of Korra, and while both had seasons that were not as strong, on the whole they were really really good. What is really great about these kind of twists is that you can go back and look for all the hints they dropped since season 1. Just like everything we've seen in the character development of Zuko led up to him becoming a member of team Avatar, everything we've seen of Pearl led up to her finally wanting to reveal this to Stephen, as well as all the little clues that supported this fact.
Such shows though are definitely not the norm. Most shows just keep chugging along season after season with the stories confined for one season, and they become disparate to the point where writers can't really lean on events from past seasons as a crutch for newer seasons because plotting wise they don't make sense (yes, some shows are decent at this, like Supernatural, because they almost never perfectly resolve individual stories, which is a different issue altogether, and everyone can always come back to life). Then when the show eventually gets cancelled, it has to rush an ending and that can break the entire show (Dexter), or just be ok (True Blood). It takes a show with strong seasons up to the end to really pull off that final season (Psych).
That was a lot of words to just say that I enjoyed the reveal insofar as it made sense for the show. I'll reserve my judgement of the show as a whole until the end, but I like how everything has been unfolding so far.
posted by numaner at 12:30 PM on May 9, 2018 [5 favorites]
For a show like this where the creators had a definite ending in mind for the entire series, I like to judge the whole thing once it's done. I've had similar success with Avatar: The Last Airbender and The Legend of Korra, and while both had seasons that were not as strong, on the whole they were really really good. What is really great about these kind of twists is that you can go back and look for all the hints they dropped since season 1. Just like everything we've seen in the character development of Zuko led up to him becoming a member of team Avatar, everything we've seen of Pearl led up to her finally wanting to reveal this to Stephen, as well as all the little clues that supported this fact.
Such shows though are definitely not the norm. Most shows just keep chugging along season after season with the stories confined for one season, and they become disparate to the point where writers can't really lean on events from past seasons as a crutch for newer seasons because plotting wise they don't make sense (yes, some shows are decent at this, like Supernatural, because they almost never perfectly resolve individual stories, which is a different issue altogether, and everyone can always come back to life). Then when the show eventually gets cancelled, it has to rush an ending and that can break the entire show (Dexter), or just be ok (True Blood). It takes a show with strong seasons up to the end to really pull off that final season (Psych).
That was a lot of words to just say that I enjoyed the reveal insofar as it made sense for the show. I'll reserve my judgement of the show as a whole until the end, but I like how everything has been unfolding so far.
posted by numaner at 12:30 PM on May 9, 2018 [5 favorites]
I really want to go back and find all the previous arguments related to Rose Quartz = Pink Diamond that people have made in these threads and quote them here. If I get intensely bored I just might.
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 12:46 PM on May 9, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 12:46 PM on May 9, 2018 [1 favorite]
Oh god, Pearl. "I'm very good at compartmentalizing, so I get to be the surface." The whole symbolism of being named after layers of protective hardened shell coating something damaging so that the oyster is protected. And then illustrating it inception-style. This show, man.
posted by domo at 1:35 PM on May 9, 2018 [20 favorites]
posted by domo at 1:35 PM on May 9, 2018 [20 favorites]
Here's a really bad sketch I did of something that kind of confused me about the big reveal. I didn't totally understand the whole "same gem from a different angle" thing. See also here and here. Doesn't PD's gem seem relatively flat to her stomach?
posted by Rinku at 2:20 PM on May 9, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by Rinku at 2:20 PM on May 9, 2018 [1 favorite]
yeah, it does seem like it shouldn't be that flat. but i'm chalking that one up to her ability to shape things on her to how she sees fit. I mean, this was the first instance we've seen of a gem changing their stone's orientation during shapeshifting, maybe it allows them to change the stone's depiction on their body too.
posted by numaner at 2:46 PM on May 9, 2018
posted by numaner at 2:46 PM on May 9, 2018
here's a good round-up of some of the hints the show has dropped. that last one kinda blew my mind.
posted by numaner at 2:47 PM on May 9, 2018 [10 favorites]
posted by numaner at 2:47 PM on May 9, 2018 [10 favorites]
I'm still shook! I keep thinking about how Rose/Pink and Pearl are characters of incredible depth and complexity (or multifaceted or multilayered, if you will). I've consumed a decent amount of media, and I can't think of any character as compelling as they are. It's extra impressive that (queer) female characters are being lovingly and cunningly designed.
posted by icosahedron at 6:56 PM on May 9, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by icosahedron at 6:56 PM on May 9, 2018 [4 favorites]
It bugged me for a while that PD would come up with this ridiculous alter ego to fight herself over her colony in a pointless war to delay the destruction of the organic life on Earth. But she herself points out repeatedly that self-determination is of utmost importance to her. If she had openly rebelled against the Diamond Authority, her subjects would have followed her because they had to. Pretending to be Rose allowed them to choose to be Crystal Gems. It's still a stupid plan and doomed to fail, but it makes me hate her less.
posted by domo at 10:14 AM on May 10, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by domo at 10:14 AM on May 10, 2018 [2 favorites]
The thing is, it might have been a stupid plan, but it's what she could come up with, could be done with what she had, and she may not have even known about the diamond super-attack. And it's easy to declare something stupid in hindsight, but when there are no good options to do something you desperately feel has to be done, what do you do? Let injustice reign? We saw that she tried reasoning with the Diamonds.
She did what she had to do. The result:
* Earth life was left to itself to grow and thrive, largely as if the gem invasion had never happened. This is information that Pink/Rose wouldn't be privy to because we see it ourselves: even with gem artifacts littering the place and weird monsters roaming the land, Earth life in the show is very similar to Earth life in our world. We know that, but she doesn't.
* Of gems, all but herself and three friends were wiped out in the attack... but the attack didn't destroy gems, but instead corrupted them. (There's still information on corruption we don't know. My evolving theory is that the Diamond attack was successful, but using her Diamond powers Rose was able to revive them, but only as monsters. I suspect this is another secret she's kept from the others, and devoted herself both to containing them and searching for a cure as a way to atone.)
* Yellow Diamond, somewhat treacherously, put a geoweapon in the Earth's crust that would destroy the planet in a few thousand years. They were able to discover and neutralize this, though.
* To do all this, she had to maintain a 5,000 year deception, lie to Garnet and Amethyst all that time, and work her ass off on a hundred different experiments (the moss from Lars and the Cool Kids for instance, seems to be one of them) over many centuries to seek out a cure for corruption.
So, the ultimate factor in Pink/Rose's character is guilt. She isn't a psychopath; she realizes the consequences of everything she's done, and they haunt her. She makes rash but perhaps unavoidable decisions, and repents hugely in leisure. Guilt over her relations with the other Diamonds, guilt over the fate of her countrygems, guilt over the damage that had already been done to the Earth.
It all could have been avoided if she hadn't insisted on getting her own colony. But if she hadn't, she probably would have eventually. Gems are *ageless*, and as the only Diamond without a colony, her feelings of inferiority would probably have festered until they lashed out again over another colony. Maybe it was better for her to discover the worth of organic life now, on her first colony, instead of with a couple other harmless colonies under her belt inuring her against the horrors committed against the Earth when its time came.
Of course... this is all speculation over a work of fiction. What would have happened is whatever the authors say would have happened.
posted by JHarris at 11:29 AM on May 10, 2018 [6 favorites]
She did what she had to do. The result:
* Earth life was left to itself to grow and thrive, largely as if the gem invasion had never happened. This is information that Pink/Rose wouldn't be privy to because we see it ourselves: even with gem artifacts littering the place and weird monsters roaming the land, Earth life in the show is very similar to Earth life in our world. We know that, but she doesn't.
* Of gems, all but herself and three friends were wiped out in the attack... but the attack didn't destroy gems, but instead corrupted them. (There's still information on corruption we don't know. My evolving theory is that the Diamond attack was successful, but using her Diamond powers Rose was able to revive them, but only as monsters. I suspect this is another secret she's kept from the others, and devoted herself both to containing them and searching for a cure as a way to atone.)
* Yellow Diamond, somewhat treacherously, put a geoweapon in the Earth's crust that would destroy the planet in a few thousand years. They were able to discover and neutralize this, though.
* To do all this, she had to maintain a 5,000 year deception, lie to Garnet and Amethyst all that time, and work her ass off on a hundred different experiments (the moss from Lars and the Cool Kids for instance, seems to be one of them) over many centuries to seek out a cure for corruption.
So, the ultimate factor in Pink/Rose's character is guilt. She isn't a psychopath; she realizes the consequences of everything she's done, and they haunt her. She makes rash but perhaps unavoidable decisions, and repents hugely in leisure. Guilt over her relations with the other Diamonds, guilt over the fate of her countrygems, guilt over the damage that had already been done to the Earth.
It all could have been avoided if she hadn't insisted on getting her own colony. But if she hadn't, she probably would have eventually. Gems are *ageless*, and as the only Diamond without a colony, her feelings of inferiority would probably have festered until they lashed out again over another colony. Maybe it was better for her to discover the worth of organic life now, on her first colony, instead of with a couple other harmless colonies under her belt inuring her against the horrors committed against the Earth when its time came.
Of course... this is all speculation over a work of fiction. What would have happened is whatever the authors say would have happened.
posted by JHarris at 11:29 AM on May 10, 2018 [6 favorites]
If she had openly rebelled against the Diamond Authority, her subjects would have followed her because they had to. Pretending to be Rose allowed them to choose to be Crystal Gems.
This is a very good point. I could also see her taking on Rose Quartz as a relief valve to get away from the stress of being an immature leader on their first big assignment. Like so many old stories about royalty she dresses as a commoner to see her domain with new eyes. She finds the beauty of the native life on earth and starts second-guessing Colonialism. Since she's a diamond used to speaking her mind, she speaks out as Rose Quartz and finds there are other gems that agree with her. Soon enough she has a following and the rebellion starts from there.
One interesting thing is how Rose Quartz has always been depicted as having greater wisdom and understanding than other gems, like when she meets Garnet for the first time and finds the idea of cross-gem fusions beautiful and fascinating rather than taboo and disgusting. Can you imagine Pink Diamond having that reaction? How much of the way Pink Diamond behaved is a product of her having to act the way she believes (and is told) a diamond should act? That alone would lead someone to conclude that it's better to let gems be what they want to be rather than what they're told to be.
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 12:26 PM on May 10, 2018 [5 favorites]
This is a very good point. I could also see her taking on Rose Quartz as a relief valve to get away from the stress of being an immature leader on their first big assignment. Like so many old stories about royalty she dresses as a commoner to see her domain with new eyes. She finds the beauty of the native life on earth and starts second-guessing Colonialism. Since she's a diamond used to speaking her mind, she speaks out as Rose Quartz and finds there are other gems that agree with her. Soon enough she has a following and the rebellion starts from there.
One interesting thing is how Rose Quartz has always been depicted as having greater wisdom and understanding than other gems, like when she meets Garnet for the first time and finds the idea of cross-gem fusions beautiful and fascinating rather than taboo and disgusting. Can you imagine Pink Diamond having that reaction? How much of the way Pink Diamond behaved is a product of her having to act the way she believes (and is told) a diamond should act? That alone would lead someone to conclude that it's better to let gems be what they want to be rather than what they're told to be.
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 12:26 PM on May 10, 2018 [5 favorites]
Steven Universe is a diamond.
Steven, for a long time, has been preoccupied with becoming what others expect him to be (with Greg as a wonderful buffer against those expectations). What Steven wants long term is not something the show, nor Steven himself, has directly explored. What Steven wants is going to very quickly become the focus of the show, because Steven has the power (whatever that may be) to make it happen.
Will he heal the shattered core gems? To just free them? Make an army to liberate other colonies? Take the fight to the other diamonds? What does Steven want?
Steven Universe is a diamond.
posted by Groundhog Week at 5:55 PM on May 10, 2018 [4 favorites]
Steven, for a long time, has been preoccupied with becoming what others expect him to be (with Greg as a wonderful buffer against those expectations). What Steven wants long term is not something the show, nor Steven himself, has directly explored. What Steven wants is going to very quickly become the focus of the show, because Steven has the power (whatever that may be) to make it happen.
Will he heal the shattered core gems? To just free them? Make an army to liberate other colonies? Take the fight to the other diamonds? What does Steven want?
Steven Universe is a diamond.
posted by Groundhog Week at 5:55 PM on May 10, 2018 [4 favorites]
If she had openly rebelled against the Diamond Authority, her subjects would have followed her because they had to. Pretending to be Rose allowed them to choose to be Crystal Gems.
Which is also a spectacularly jerkass thing to do, as Gems come out of the ground fully formed and with a limited capacity for growth and change. Rose herself says this to Greg on the beach during Greg the Babysitter. She's damning her subjects for things they cannot control. This is a fine logic for organic things that do have the capacity to change, but for a Gem...it's asking an awful lot and it shows a real lack of compassion for the rest of her subjects.
If she wants to make them choose, then let them choose to defy her and serve Homeworld. Meanwhile she has a larger loyal force to protect Earth. Do you honestly think Jasper would have chosen Homeworld over Pink? Give them the choice that saves more of your organics, rather than the one that lets you get out of the hole you've dug yourself asking for a colony in the first place.
There is nothing about Pinkie's actions that change my view of her as being a shallow, manipulative piece of shit. Speaking of which, it was brought to my attention in a lot of Pacific Islander cultures, you put a hibiscus flower behind your left ear when you are in a relationship with someone.
She put the flower behind Pearl's right ear.
After everything.
I mean this is good writing. Her character is uniformly selfish and short-sighted, all the way back to the beginning and through all her layers, and that fact that I'm now possessed of a mighty hatred of Rose Quartz is telling to the quality of the show. As I'm reflecting on the episode I'm realizing a lot of my rancor isn't so much about the nature of the reveal or anything, but what this is going to do to Steven. He's just a good kid trying to do the right thing no matter what, even at the cost of self-excoriation, and this is just going to fuck him up even more. He was only just coming to terms with being Rose Quartz' son, let alone Pink Diamond's.
posted by Jilder at 6:23 PM on May 10, 2018 [2 favorites]
Which is also a spectacularly jerkass thing to do, as Gems come out of the ground fully formed and with a limited capacity for growth and change. Rose herself says this to Greg on the beach during Greg the Babysitter. She's damning her subjects for things they cannot control. This is a fine logic for organic things that do have the capacity to change, but for a Gem...it's asking an awful lot and it shows a real lack of compassion for the rest of her subjects.
If she wants to make them choose, then let them choose to defy her and serve Homeworld. Meanwhile she has a larger loyal force to protect Earth. Do you honestly think Jasper would have chosen Homeworld over Pink? Give them the choice that saves more of your organics, rather than the one that lets you get out of the hole you've dug yourself asking for a colony in the first place.
There is nothing about Pinkie's actions that change my view of her as being a shallow, manipulative piece of shit. Speaking of which, it was brought to my attention in a lot of Pacific Islander cultures, you put a hibiscus flower behind your left ear when you are in a relationship with someone.
She put the flower behind Pearl's right ear.
After everything.
I mean this is good writing. Her character is uniformly selfish and short-sighted, all the way back to the beginning and through all her layers, and that fact that I'm now possessed of a mighty hatred of Rose Quartz is telling to the quality of the show. As I'm reflecting on the episode I'm realizing a lot of my rancor isn't so much about the nature of the reveal or anything, but what this is going to do to Steven. He's just a good kid trying to do the right thing no matter what, even at the cost of self-excoriation, and this is just going to fuck him up even more. He was only just coming to terms with being Rose Quartz' son, let alone Pink Diamond's.
posted by Jilder at 6:23 PM on May 10, 2018 [2 favorites]
Groundhog Week: No. He's no more a diamond than he was a rose quartz. Steven Universe is a human being. First and foremost. The only way for the show's emphasis on the beauty of ordinary people is to show him retaining his humanity. He's also Greg Universe's son, who is about the most down to Earth human on television.
posted by Jilder at 6:29 PM on May 10, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by Jilder at 6:29 PM on May 10, 2018 [1 favorite]
I agree that Steven is first and foremost a human being, but he is a diamond too. What that means hasn't been fully defined though. I mean he, literally, has the power to raise the dead / prevent death / whatever it was he did to Lars. I don't mean that he's a diamond in the sense of personality, but I can see how understanding the power he has and the temptations that come along with it could be corrupting or lead to bad decision making. It certainly did with Pink Diamond/Rose Quartz. One's humanity isn't, in and of itself, insulation from the temptations of power.
I mean this is good writing. Her character is uniformly selfish and short-sighted...
I agree, especially because one could look at Steven's decision to turn himself in to face a trial on Homeworld in the same light.
Him retaining his humanity is important. What I'm saying is that it is going to be more of a struggle from here on out. Especially since the Crystal Gems have been treating Steven as more of an equal as time has gone on.
posted by Groundhog Week at 8:29 PM on May 10, 2018
I mean this is good writing. Her character is uniformly selfish and short-sighted...
I agree, especially because one could look at Steven's decision to turn himself in to face a trial on Homeworld in the same light.
Him retaining his humanity is important. What I'm saying is that it is going to be more of a struggle from here on out. Especially since the Crystal Gems have been treating Steven as more of an equal as time has gone on.
posted by Groundhog Week at 8:29 PM on May 10, 2018
Joe Johnston, a writer for the show (I think still?), clarified some things about Pink/Rose's relationship with Pearl on his Tumblr. The SU subreddit reposted them, maybe they'll be useful.
posted by JHarris at 12:14 AM on May 11, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by JHarris at 12:14 AM on May 11, 2018 [2 favorites]
This episode was great. The Perl-ception, the visuals, the last Perl scene was so tight. The delivery of he apology about making Steven come all this way. Compartmentalizing, So good.
The bent out of shape feelings about Rose from viewers seem analogous to how the Crystal Gems' are likely to feel. It's fabulous storytelling.
Great stuff. The story is blown wide open.
posted by bdc34 at 9:20 AM on May 11, 2018 [1 favorite]
The bent out of shape feelings about Rose from viewers seem analogous to how the Crystal Gems' are likely to feel. It's fabulous storytelling.
Great stuff. The story is blown wide open.
posted by bdc34 at 9:20 AM on May 11, 2018 [1 favorite]
I've watched this 3 times now. It's gotten better and better. Watching with my wife was the best--she's a SU fan but not a "superfan" (i.e. does not read fan theories online or spend time theorizing about where the plot is headed). She had never heard of the Rose-is-Pink-Diamond fan theory and her mind was BLOWN in the best way. The reveal wasn't just about delivering a "twist"; she kept saying stuff like "IT MAKES SENSE, IT MAKES SUCH TERRIBLE SENSE, OH MY GOD."
Makes me want to unplug from fandom and theories, and just enjoy the ride.
posted by duffell at 9:40 AM on May 11, 2018 [5 favorites]
Makes me want to unplug from fandom and theories, and just enjoy the ride.
posted by duffell at 9:40 AM on May 11, 2018 [5 favorites]
I rewatched it with my 7 year old and he was floored. He whispered "This changes everything!" and found that he was unable to open his mouth wide enough to convey the sense of shock he felt. It was very satisfying to watch. He's now rewatching all of season 5 to get the full context again.
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 12:40 PM on May 11, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 12:40 PM on May 11, 2018 [4 favorites]
Gems come out of the ground fully formed and with a limited capacity for growth and change. Rose herself says this to Greg on the beach during Greg the Babysitter. She's damning her subjects for things they cannot control. This is a fine logic for organic things that do have the capacity to change, but for a Gem...it's asking an awful lot and it shows a real lack of compassion for the rest of her subjects.
Mmm, I agree that this is something gems like to tell themselves is true about themselves, but it's clearly not borne out by the evidence. Look at how many gems became Crystal Gems of their own free will during the rebellion. Look at how the famethyst act at the Human Zoo. Look at how Peridot progressed from a staunch cog in Homeworld's machine to being a rebellious Crystal Gem. Look at how quickly Topaz (admittedly a sentimental fusion) decided to completely toss the mission. Look at how long it took Steven and Lars to come across off-color gems on homeworld, and how quickly they took to starting their own small rebellion (granted, under the leadership of Lars).
Look at the gems we see who are content with the current order of things. Jasper. Holly Blue Agate. Aquamarine. Blue and Yellow Diamond and their Pearls. All of them elite gems that immediately benefited from the privilege they were born into. The Ruby Squad (navy in particular) are the only example of low-ranking gems that never showed any doubt about their place in gem culture. Gems are told they have limited capacity, are told if they're off-color or imperfect they need to do their assigned task anyway or be destroyed. Rose Quartz ought to have known better than to keep believing this about gems, but she was always more taken with organic life's ability to adapt.
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 1:51 PM on May 11, 2018 [5 favorites]
Mmm, I agree that this is something gems like to tell themselves is true about themselves, but it's clearly not borne out by the evidence. Look at how many gems became Crystal Gems of their own free will during the rebellion. Look at how the famethyst act at the Human Zoo. Look at how Peridot progressed from a staunch cog in Homeworld's machine to being a rebellious Crystal Gem. Look at how quickly Topaz (admittedly a sentimental fusion) decided to completely toss the mission. Look at how long it took Steven and Lars to come across off-color gems on homeworld, and how quickly they took to starting their own small rebellion (granted, under the leadership of Lars).
Look at the gems we see who are content with the current order of things. Jasper. Holly Blue Agate. Aquamarine. Blue and Yellow Diamond and their Pearls. All of them elite gems that immediately benefited from the privilege they were born into. The Ruby Squad (navy in particular) are the only example of low-ranking gems that never showed any doubt about their place in gem culture. Gems are told they have limited capacity, are told if they're off-color or imperfect they need to do their assigned task anyway or be destroyed. Rose Quartz ought to have known better than to keep believing this about gems, but she was always more taken with organic life's ability to adapt.
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 1:51 PM on May 11, 2018 [5 favorites]
Mmm, I agree that this is something gems like to tell themselves is true about themselves, but it's clearly not borne out by the evidence.
Totally dig that, but that's not the context in which Rose was formulating her plan. Even thousands of years later with a body of evidence that suggests otherwise, she still believed Gems did not have the capacity to grow or change, and it's that understanding that she had when she decided to rebel.
Like I'm judging her actions based on what information she had to work with, not what we have as viewers.
Watching with my wife was the best--she's a SU fan but not a "superfan" (i.e. does not read fan theories online or spend time theorizing about where the plot is headed). She had never heard of the Rose-is-Pink-Diamond fan theory and her mind was BLOWN in the best way. The reveal wasn't just about delivering a "twist"; she kept saying stuff like "IT MAKES SENSE, IT MAKES SUCH TERRIBLE SENSE, OH MY GOD."
Makes me want to unplug from fandom and theories, and just enjoy the ride.
Yeah, best way to enjoy any show, frankly. This is the only place I discuss SU, and the only other interaction I have with the fandom is browsing fanart on Instagram when I have literally run out of anything better to do. Fannon doesn't really add much to a show with this well thought out world-building.
I rewatched it with my 7 year old and he was floored. He whispered "This changes everything!" and found that he was unable to open his mouth wide enough to convey the sense of shock he felt. It was very satisfying to watch. He's now rewatching all of season 5 to get the full context again.
Bless that child. If I recall correctly he's come up with some cracker fantheories over the series, hasn't he? I think I might follow his lead and do a re-watch myself.
posted by Jilder at 8:11 PM on May 11, 2018 [1 favorite]
Totally dig that, but that's not the context in which Rose was formulating her plan. Even thousands of years later with a body of evidence that suggests otherwise, she still believed Gems did not have the capacity to grow or change, and it's that understanding that she had when she decided to rebel.
Like I'm judging her actions based on what information she had to work with, not what we have as viewers.
Watching with my wife was the best--she's a SU fan but not a "superfan" (i.e. does not read fan theories online or spend time theorizing about where the plot is headed). She had never heard of the Rose-is-Pink-Diamond fan theory and her mind was BLOWN in the best way. The reveal wasn't just about delivering a "twist"; she kept saying stuff like "IT MAKES SENSE, IT MAKES SUCH TERRIBLE SENSE, OH MY GOD."
Makes me want to unplug from fandom and theories, and just enjoy the ride.
Yeah, best way to enjoy any show, frankly. This is the only place I discuss SU, and the only other interaction I have with the fandom is browsing fanart on Instagram when I have literally run out of anything better to do. Fannon doesn't really add much to a show with this well thought out world-building.
I rewatched it with my 7 year old and he was floored. He whispered "This changes everything!" and found that he was unable to open his mouth wide enough to convey the sense of shock he felt. It was very satisfying to watch. He's now rewatching all of season 5 to get the full context again.
Bless that child. If I recall correctly he's come up with some cracker fantheories over the series, hasn't he? I think I might follow his lead and do a re-watch myself.
posted by Jilder at 8:11 PM on May 11, 2018 [1 favorite]
I was just rewatching this and some other Pearl episodes, and I realized that the pink has literally been fading out of Pearl's hair in the time that Steven has been alive -- maybe as her old compulsion to serve has faded, and a new sense of self has grown.
posted by ourobouros at 12:07 PM on May 12, 2018 [7 favorites]
posted by ourobouros at 12:07 PM on May 12, 2018 [7 favorites]
There's so many things this throws into a new light. Remember, all the writers knew about this from day one. Every line Rose and Pearl have said has come to us through this filter.
* Rose's Scabbard: "Everything I ever did, I did for her."
* The Answer: When Garnet talked about the rebellion's "terrifying renegade Pearl." The other gems would have seen that as an indication that something had broken (Jasper earlier said she was defective).
* Pink Diamond may have managed to sever Pearl's obedience to her, but her devotion may have been something she hadn't counted on. In the short years Steven has been around though, Pearl has managed to have a loud and angry argument with what she became (Warp Tour) and made up with the human who was responsible for her disappearance (Mr. Greg).
Even after Pink Diamond abandoned her position, Pearl may not ever have managed to become her own gem, entirely, while she was around. Maybe that was another factor in her deciding to have Steven.
posted by JHarris at 1:30 PM on May 12, 2018
* Rose's Scabbard: "Everything I ever did, I did for her."
* The Answer: When Garnet talked about the rebellion's "terrifying renegade Pearl." The other gems would have seen that as an indication that something had broken (Jasper earlier said she was defective).
* Pink Diamond may have managed to sever Pearl's obedience to her, but her devotion may have been something she hadn't counted on. In the short years Steven has been around though, Pearl has managed to have a loud and angry argument with what she became (Warp Tour) and made up with the human who was responsible for her disappearance (Mr. Greg).
Even after Pink Diamond abandoned her position, Pearl may not ever have managed to become her own gem, entirely, while she was around. Maybe that was another factor in her deciding to have Steven.
posted by JHarris at 1:30 PM on May 12, 2018
There's an official interview up with Rebecca Sugar about the episodes. Try to stick with it through the annoying intro (USED ENOUGH SOUND EFFECTS YET, DUDE?) it goes over the events of previous episodes in light of the RQ=PD revelation.
posted by JHarris at 1:42 PM on May 12, 2018 [5 favorites]
posted by JHarris at 1:42 PM on May 12, 2018 [5 favorites]
I watched through that interview with the original intention of transcribing it for someone but was beaten to the punch -- nevertheless felt very vindicated by Rebecca Sugar pointing out something I said ages ago, that "my Pearl" isn't how you address a servant, it's a mirror of how the Diamonds are addressed. Which of course takes on extra resonance with the reveal.
posted by inconstant at 4:51 PM on May 12, 2018
posted by inconstant at 4:51 PM on May 12, 2018
Where's that transcript, inconstant? And good catch on the term of address there, I hadn't spotted that.
* Pink Diamond may have managed to sever Pearl's obedience to her, but her devotion may have been something she hadn't counted on. In the short years Steven has been around though, Pearl has managed to have a loud and angry argument with what she became (Warp Tour) and made up with the human who was responsible for her disappearance (Mr. Greg).
Even after Pink Diamond abandoned her position, Pearl may not ever have managed to become her own gem, entirely, while she was around. Maybe that was another factor in her deciding to have Steven.
Steven would have to be a biological clone of Greg, having no DNA from his mother. That would have made it much easier to put some distance in there.
posted by Jilder at 2:04 AM on May 13, 2018
* Pink Diamond may have managed to sever Pearl's obedience to her, but her devotion may have been something she hadn't counted on. In the short years Steven has been around though, Pearl has managed to have a loud and angry argument with what she became (Warp Tour) and made up with the human who was responsible for her disappearance (Mr. Greg).
Even after Pink Diamond abandoned her position, Pearl may not ever have managed to become her own gem, entirely, while she was around. Maybe that was another factor in her deciding to have Steven.
Steven would have to be a biological clone of Greg, having no DNA from his mother. That would have made it much easier to put some distance in there.
posted by Jilder at 2:04 AM on May 13, 2018
Oh my god. In Mr. Greg, at the end of "It's Over, Isn't It" -- as Pearl finishes her song, we pan up to the stars above, where there is a literal pink diamond flashing in the sky.
posted by ourobouros at 9:53 AM on May 14, 2018 [7 favorites]
posted by ourobouros at 9:53 AM on May 14, 2018 [7 favorites]
How about in Steven's Dream, when Blue Diamond and Greg bond over what it's like to lose someone... the same someone.
posted by tomboko at 5:48 PM on May 14, 2018 [8 favorites]
posted by tomboko at 5:48 PM on May 14, 2018 [8 favorites]
One fun piece of foreshadowing that I caught on rewatch but haven't seem mentioned anywhere is when Steven speaks into the mirror that Lapis comes out of. Pearl explains that the mirror can show him anything he wants to know about Gem culture. Steven is looking into the mirror, which is of course just reflecting his face, and he says "I must be incredibly important to Gem culture!"
Cheeky!
posted by one of these days at 7:59 AM on May 15, 2018 [8 favorites]
Cheeky!
posted by one of these days at 7:59 AM on May 15, 2018 [8 favorites]
As for the reveal itself - I actually quite like Rose a lot as a character, and the way she's explored. While we see Steven moving forward in time, growing more mature, the glimpses we catch of Rose are in reverse chronological order, so from our point of view she becomes more immature as the show goes on. It is a great contrast.
I think she had good intentions but was shortsighted. She truly thought her "death" would be the end of it. I think she also had a very naive and incomplete understanding of empathy - a combination of her highly hierarchical and colonial culture, her privileged place *in* that culture, and perhaps even her alien biology.
It also made me think more about Pearl, of course. Pearl throughout the show always seemed like she had the hardest time letting go of not just Rose, but of the original Homeworld culture and structure. At some point she cries to Garnet that she "needs someone to tell [her] what to do" and I remember noting it at the time as being pretty sad that even after thousands of years and fighting in a rebellion against Homeworld, she had internalised the hierarchical oppression so deeply.* Now the context I think makes that a little different: it is an ongoing physical reality for her. She didn't "just" obey because it had been expected of her, she was and still is literally unable to defy her geas.
I feel like she at least deserves an apology. :(
The remaining big mystery for me is "what ARE gems anyway?" I don't think they "evolved" given how they reproduce and I'm curious if there's further conspiracy w/ White Diamond on the nature of gems or the foundation of Homeworld.
A more minor mystery I'm interested in: what the heck is with Lion though for real. We have bits and pieces but I want more!
*(I think at the time it was already heavily implied or outright revealed that Pearls were normally a noncombatant/servant class.)
posted by one of these days at 8:46 AM on May 15, 2018 [3 favorites]
I think she had good intentions but was shortsighted. She truly thought her "death" would be the end of it. I think she also had a very naive and incomplete understanding of empathy - a combination of her highly hierarchical and colonial culture, her privileged place *in* that culture, and perhaps even her alien biology.
It also made me think more about Pearl, of course. Pearl throughout the show always seemed like she had the hardest time letting go of not just Rose, but of the original Homeworld culture and structure. At some point she cries to Garnet that she "needs someone to tell [her] what to do" and I remember noting it at the time as being pretty sad that even after thousands of years and fighting in a rebellion against Homeworld, she had internalised the hierarchical oppression so deeply.* Now the context I think makes that a little different: it is an ongoing physical reality for her. She didn't "just" obey because it had been expected of her, she was and still is literally unable to defy her geas.
I feel like she at least deserves an apology. :(
The remaining big mystery for me is "what ARE gems anyway?" I don't think they "evolved" given how they reproduce and I'm curious if there's further conspiracy w/ White Diamond on the nature of gems or the foundation of Homeworld.
A more minor mystery I'm interested in: what the heck is with Lion though for real. We have bits and pieces but I want more!
*(I think at the time it was already heavily implied or outright revealed that Pearls were normally a noncombatant/servant class.)
posted by one of these days at 8:46 AM on May 15, 2018 [3 favorites]
I still stick by my theory that gems are the synthetic creation of another culture.
Recall how many gem holes we saw on Homeworld. Earth's Prime Kindergarden must have created thousands of gems. A fully colonized world surely must yield millions, perhaps billions, of gems. So where are they? If there's so many gems in the universe why has every mission to earth involved 3-5 gems? Why do the most important gems in the universe have only a single aide at their side? One can't help but think gem culture is being portrayed as sparse for a reason, especially considering human culture is deliberately portrayed as vibrant and full.
Also, it is interesting to note, it was established extremely early on that gems are a powerful energy source, and being utilized as such seems to be an accepted fact of life. So where are all the gems? Batteries for another culture? Sent off to fight as expendable soldiers? Will the final confrontation of the show be Steven leading a large-scale rebellion against these unseen masters? Did Pink Diamond even know this much about the true nature of her people? Do Yellow and Blue Diamond?
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 2:54 PM on May 15, 2018 [2 favorites]
Recall how many gem holes we saw on Homeworld. Earth's Prime Kindergarden must have created thousands of gems. A fully colonized world surely must yield millions, perhaps billions, of gems. So where are they? If there's so many gems in the universe why has every mission to earth involved 3-5 gems? Why do the most important gems in the universe have only a single aide at their side? One can't help but think gem culture is being portrayed as sparse for a reason, especially considering human culture is deliberately portrayed as vibrant and full.
Also, it is interesting to note, it was established extremely early on that gems are a powerful energy source, and being utilized as such seems to be an accepted fact of life. So where are all the gems? Batteries for another culture? Sent off to fight as expendable soldiers? Will the final confrontation of the show be Steven leading a large-scale rebellion against these unseen masters? Did Pink Diamond even know this much about the true nature of her people? Do Yellow and Blue Diamond?
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 2:54 PM on May 15, 2018 [2 favorites]
Came across this image on /r/stevenuniverse. Gave me a chuckle.
posted by Pendragon at 4:03 AM on May 16, 2018 [5 favorites]
posted by Pendragon at 4:03 AM on May 16, 2018 [5 favorites]
I just caught up and OMG.
As Garnet said, "We are now dwelling in a totally new pool of improbability."
posted by Foosnark at 7:34 PM on May 20, 2018 [5 favorites]
As Garnet said, "We are now dwelling in a totally new pool of improbability."
posted by Foosnark at 7:34 PM on May 20, 2018 [5 favorites]
As Garnet said, "We are now dwelling in a totally new pool of improbability."
Just wait until the summer when we find out Ronaldo is White Diamond. #BloodstoneIsReal
posted by duffell at 5:18 PM on May 21, 2018 [4 favorites]
Just wait until the summer when we find out Ronaldo is White Diamond. #BloodstoneIsReal
posted by duffell at 5:18 PM on May 21, 2018 [4 favorites]
A half-baked theory... not sure how I feel about it. I don't think it's likely, but I've been turning it over in my head.
Now that we know she faked her death once--to escape her responsibilities as Pink Diamond--it's not crazy to think she might've done so a second time, to escape her responsibilities as Rose Quartz.
We've taken it as an article of faith that Rose Quartz *had* to sacrifice herself to give birth to Steven, because: (1) Rose said so and (2) Steven has Rose's gem. But this is the only instance of human-gem procreation we're aware of, so who knows what the rules are? Rose/Pink experimented with the effects of gem abilities on organic life, so she probably knew better than anyone what was likely to happen--but she also, y'know, lied about stuff. (Given the Crystal Gems' confusion on encountering Baby Steven, they're certainly not the experts on the subject.)
What if Rose didn't have to sacrifice herself? What if she's still out there in one form or another? What if Steven's gem is his own--not his mom's? What if she was just running away again?
It certainly wouldn't make any of us fall in love with Mama Pink. But man, what if?
(There goes my commitment not to spin theories.)
posted by duffell at 1:56 PM on May 27, 2018 [1 favorite]
Now that we know she faked her death once--to escape her responsibilities as Pink Diamond--it's not crazy to think she might've done so a second time, to escape her responsibilities as Rose Quartz.
We've taken it as an article of faith that Rose Quartz *had* to sacrifice herself to give birth to Steven, because: (1) Rose said so and (2) Steven has Rose's gem. But this is the only instance of human-gem procreation we're aware of, so who knows what the rules are? Rose/Pink experimented with the effects of gem abilities on organic life, so she probably knew better than anyone what was likely to happen--but she also, y'know, lied about stuff. (Given the Crystal Gems' confusion on encountering Baby Steven, they're certainly not the experts on the subject.)
What if Rose didn't have to sacrifice herself? What if she's still out there in one form or another? What if Steven's gem is his own--not his mom's? What if she was just running away again?
It certainly wouldn't make any of us fall in love with Mama Pink. But man, what if?
(There goes my commitment not to spin theories.)
posted by duffell at 1:56 PM on May 27, 2018 [1 favorite]
A more minor mystery I'm interested in: what the heck is with Lion though for real. We have bits and pieces but I want more!
Lars has become the same sort of being as Lion, so presumably at some point PD/RQ had a cry over a dead lion and poof. Lion happened.
The real Lion mystery is what's in the damn chest already.
posted by Jilder at 6:56 AM on June 11, 2018 [1 favorite]
Lars has become the same sort of being as Lion, so presumably at some point PD/RQ had a cry over a dead lion and poof. Lion happened.
The real Lion mystery is what's in the damn chest already.
posted by Jilder at 6:56 AM on June 11, 2018 [1 favorite]
so I'm rewatching the show and in the first episode there's a point where Amethyst reassures Steven (at Garnet's insistence) that "We're not the Crystal Gems without you." and I had a moment.
posted by numaner at 10:45 PM on June 11, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by numaner at 10:45 PM on June 11, 2018 [3 favorites]
I was just rewatching "Giant Woman," and in the titular song, Steven sings "but if it were me, I'd really wanna be a giant woman." Hah!
posted by duffell at 6:04 AM on June 28, 2018 [6 favorites]
posted by duffell at 6:04 AM on June 28, 2018 [6 favorites]
Heads up everyone, new episode today.
posted by JHarris at 9:49 PM on July 1, 2018 [5 favorites]
posted by JHarris at 9:49 PM on July 1, 2018 [5 favorites]
I have a BBQ to go to and the host doesn't have cable but also I don't think they would appreciate me taking over the TV (he only has the one the living room) for this. Arg why can't they simulcast on other devices? (or do they?)
posted by numaner at 12:18 PM on July 2, 2018
posted by numaner at 12:18 PM on July 2, 2018
Someone on Reddit pointed out Pee-Dee's whole fry bits thing in relation to P.D.'s gem bits and it blew my mind.
posted by divabat at 5:58 PM on July 5, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by divabat at 5:58 PM on July 5, 2018 [3 favorites]
I was just rewatching Mr. Greg, and on the word "reinvention," Pearl gives the rose she's holding SUCH A LOOK. Maybe I'm just reaching at this point, but it feels... intentional.
posted by duffell at 2:40 PM on July 15, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by duffell at 2:40 PM on July 15, 2018 [2 favorites]
I didn't expect this show to tackle the problem of Whiteness head-on. I understand the anger towards PD/RQ and her choices. But now we're left with Steven, not directly responsible for any of it, exactly, but neither not NOT responsible. So he's doing what he can: trying to fix it and somehow live his life as well. But the history tarnishes everything, and yet it doesn't mean his mother's love wasn't real. It's confronting colonization, slavery, and environmental degradation AS REAL THINGS, not metaphors. It's a meepmorp of the highest order disguised as children's entertainment (it even manages to be a metaphor for itself).
posted by rikschell at 6:11 AM on February 1, 2019 [3 favorites]
posted by rikschell at 6:11 AM on February 1, 2019 [3 favorites]
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I hope you don't mind I made this one quickly. I just watched it and needed to talk to someone because aaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.
Also, I couldn't resist using that as the spoiler-free synopsis. (Not quite as good as that one Evangelion episode described as "Shinji paints the town red" but hey.)
posted by Rev. Syung Myung Me at 8:06 PM on May 7, 2018 [6 favorites]