The Mandalorian: Chapter 8: Redemption
December 27, 2019 1:50 AM - Season 1, Episode 8 - Subscribe
A new Mandalorian clan is forged as all hell breaks loose.
I loved this too, every minute of it, though I am a little disappointed the Mandalorian's short-lived "crew" dispersed by the end. No doubt we'll see Cara Dune and Greef Carga again, but I was hoping they'd be more permanent fixtures. I'm very intrigued we learned the Mandalorian's birth name, and I'm sure many will be gratified he finally got to show his face. Yes, that really is Pedro Pascal under there!
But none of that can match in my mind the excitement of seeing the Darksaber in the hands of Moff Gideon. That's almost as big a reveal as Baby Yoda themselves. Is it next season yet?
posted by The Nutmeg of Consolation at 6:13 AM on December 27, 2019 [14 favorites]
But none of that can match in my mind the excitement of seeing the Darksaber in the hands of Moff Gideon. That's almost as big a reveal as Baby Yoda themselves. Is it next season yet?
posted by The Nutmeg of Consolation at 6:13 AM on December 27, 2019 [14 favorites]
No hitting the Baby Yoda.
That said, the violence here as in the series is rather PG rated. No gore seen; blood kept to a minimum, and not seen to be caused by hitting or other violence. Baby Yoda was mostly concealed in the bag when he was being hit. The Armorer at the end crunched one Stormtrooper's skull, but that was heard and not seen.
posted by ZeusHumms at 6:49 AM on December 27, 2019 [1 favorite]
That said, the violence here as in the series is rather PG rated. No gore seen; blood kept to a minimum, and not seen to be caused by hitting or other violence. Baby Yoda was mostly concealed in the bag when he was being hit. The Armorer at the end crunched one Stormtrooper's skull, but that was heard and not seen.
posted by ZeusHumms at 6:49 AM on December 27, 2019 [1 favorite]
The opening exchange between the two speeder bike troopers was comedy gold.
posted by kokaku at 7:01 AM on December 27, 2019 [37 favorites]
posted by kokaku at 7:01 AM on December 27, 2019 [37 favorites]
Not to mention missing Every. Single. Shot.
posted by montag2k at 10:06 AM on December 27, 2019 [46 favorites]
posted by montag2k at 10:06 AM on December 27, 2019 [46 favorites]
The two best parts were when baby Yoda was so happy on the speeder. And when Greef asked him to do his hand thing and he just waved a little.
posted by ilovewinter at 10:14 AM on December 27, 2019 [34 favorites]
posted by ilovewinter at 10:14 AM on December 27, 2019 [34 favorites]
The bike troopers were voiced by Jason Sudeikis and Adam Pally.
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:19 AM on December 27, 2019 [17 favorites]
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:19 AM on December 27, 2019 [17 favorites]
Episodes 1-8, summarized with only Baby Yoda gifs (Vulture)
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:31 AM on December 27, 2019 [14 favorites]
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:31 AM on December 27, 2019 [14 favorites]
This was great and I loved the whole sequence with IG nurse speeder biking and blasting Imps while Baby Yoda went wheeeeeee
posted by Fleebnork at 10:41 AM on December 27, 2019 [4 favorites]
posted by Fleebnork at 10:41 AM on December 27, 2019 [4 favorites]
A pretty solid season finale that has me eagerly awaiting season two. My only real disappointment is that Herzog's character won't be back. Maybe we can hope for a cameo in a flashback or two?
posted by Zonker at 10:58 AM on December 27, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by Zonker at 10:58 AM on December 27, 2019 [2 favorites]
Let's all get a libation to celebrate the closing of our shared narrative.
posted by Pendragon at 11:33 AM on December 27, 2019 [56 favorites]
posted by Pendragon at 11:33 AM on December 27, 2019 [56 favorites]
Just the Baby Yoda Parts of The Mandalorian, courtesy of Vulture.
We saw The Rise of Skywalker yesterday, and while we liked it more than lots did over in its FanFare thread, there's no doubt this has been more fun. Looking forward to next season.
posted by bcd at 1:35 PM on December 27, 2019 [1 favorite]
We saw The Rise of Skywalker yesterday, and while we liked it more than lots did over in its FanFare thread, there's no doubt this has been more fun. Looking forward to next season.
posted by bcd at 1:35 PM on December 27, 2019 [1 favorite]
Eep, sorry, that's the same link ZeusHumms just posted above. Please delete/ignore.
posted by bcd at 1:49 PM on December 27, 2019
posted by bcd at 1:49 PM on December 27, 2019
The opening exchange between the two speeder bike troopers was comedy gold.
They were definitely on personal ice cream leave of absence.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 2:55 PM on December 27, 2019 [1 favorite]
They were definitely on personal ice cream leave of absence.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 2:55 PM on December 27, 2019 [1 favorite]
No doubt we'll see Cara Dune and Greef Carga again
About halfway through the episode I had a moment of "Holy shit are they going to kill him off and the series is really about Gina Carano: Mandalorian?" which would have been awesome but I honestly can't fault leaving Pedro Pascal alive.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 3:14 PM on December 27, 2019 [3 favorites]
About halfway through the episode I had a moment of "Holy shit are they going to kill him off and the series is really about Gina Carano: Mandalorian?" which would have been awesome but I honestly can't fault leaving Pedro Pascal alive.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 3:14 PM on December 27, 2019 [3 favorites]
"This is the lava river" is an observation that feels like it could go unsaid.
posted by jason_steakums at 4:41 PM on December 27, 2019 [40 favorites]
posted by jason_steakums at 4:41 PM on December 27, 2019 [40 favorites]
Also I kind of hope this whole darksaber business is the point where Disney realizes they can bring extended universe stuff into the live action part of Star Wars without worrying that it's too esoteric for the audience. It took a while for them to get comfortable pulling deep cuts in Marvel movies too, and it turns out people just go with it because they're engaged and want to enjoy it. It feels great that this flagship show is explicitly of a whole with Rebels, and I feel like this could maybe open a door to the possibility of some of the intriguing plot threads left dangling at the end of Rebels getting picked up in a high budget prestige treatment.
posted by jason_steakums at 4:59 PM on December 27, 2019 [4 favorites]
posted by jason_steakums at 4:59 PM on December 27, 2019 [4 favorites]
"This is the lava river" is an observation that feels like it could go unsaid.
I can't help but watch every episode through an affectionate lens of "this is people playing with their Star Wars toys" and so instantly imagined someone saying that about some random feature on their living room floor.
posted by curious nu at 5:00 PM on December 27, 2019 [47 favorites]
I can't help but watch every episode through an affectionate lens of "this is people playing with their Star Wars toys" and so instantly imagined someone saying that about some random feature on their living room floor.
posted by curious nu at 5:00 PM on December 27, 2019 [47 favorites]
This was very much a Taiki Waititi episode. I loved it.
Baby Yoda doing with the magic hands was great. Sad about IG-11, but also a great bookend for the season.
posted by mrzarquon at 6:06 PM on December 27, 2019 [6 favorites]
Baby Yoda doing with the magic hands was great. Sad about IG-11, but also a great bookend for the season.
posted by mrzarquon at 6:06 PM on December 27, 2019 [6 favorites]
Also the opening scene with the two bike troopers was prime meta commentary from Peter’s Evil Overlord list.
posted by mrzarquon at 6:32 PM on December 27, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by mrzarquon at 6:32 PM on December 27, 2019 [1 favorite]
How is it that I am 100x more sad about IG-11 than events in the most recent movie? Nicely done.
posted by past unusual at 6:58 PM on December 27, 2019 [11 favorites]
posted by past unusual at 6:58 PM on December 27, 2019 [11 favorites]
I liked most of this season, I was excited going into this final episode... but holy crap! Aside from the trooper dialogue it was super mega fucking terrible — just awful pacing, stuff happening for stupid immediate obvious drama reasons, with the worst most wooden dialogue and senseless character decisions. The stakes were so badly handled and unbelievable.. I think lost an entire year of my life with the decision to have IG-11 carry the jetpack, and by the time it died I just did not care at all anymore. I'd already aged nine years in all the pointless shit that happened before they could get through the grate.
posted by fleacircus at 8:55 PM on December 27, 2019
posted by fleacircus at 8:55 PM on December 27, 2019
I found the discussion of the Jedi kind of confusing. If the show is set 9 years after Yavin, the Jedi have only been gone for 30 years -- the end of the Clone Wars was within Din Djarin's lifetime.
Now, Djarin was apparently raised by refugee Mandalorians, and the Mandalorians long had problems with the Jedi. But they knew who the Jedi were, that they were the commanders of the Grand Army of the Republic during the Clone Wars. How are they disappeared so quickly to some ancient race of enemy sorcerers?
posted by suelac at 10:24 PM on December 27, 2019 [6 favorites]
Now, Djarin was apparently raised by refugee Mandalorians, and the Mandalorians long had problems with the Jedi. But they knew who the Jedi were, that they were the commanders of the Grand Army of the Republic during the Clone Wars. How are they disappeared so quickly to some ancient race of enemy sorcerers?
posted by suelac at 10:24 PM on December 27, 2019 [6 favorites]
Loved the opening bit enough to forgive the first fight scene.
I'm glad that IG helped Din Djarin start acknowledging his droid hangup. Was wondering if they'd pull the "I'm no man" thing as an excuse to show Pascal's face.
But, damn that sucks. Nice callback, though. Din failed his logic/ engineering/ dialogue check apparently. I would have tried to convince IG to give up the thermal detonator (and acquire a replacement) instead of self destruction.
Liked the Armorer's hammer+tong fighting style. But, yeah, Din levelled up again I guess. I'm assuming she survived since Cara Dune's mention about cleaning out the planet of Imps?
I thought the Rising Phoenix (jetpack) wouldn't work until Din got some mental gymnastics ("forms") practised first?
suelac - my read is that a lot of people are the equivalent of "low information voters" and that the Armorer was specifically referring to a past animosity between the Mandalorians and some organization with a significant Jedi composition rather than recent-ish/ a generation-ago events.
posted by porpoise at 10:35 PM on December 27, 2019 [1 favorite]
I'm glad that IG helped Din Djarin start acknowledging his droid hangup. Was wondering if they'd pull the "I'm no man" thing as an excuse to show Pascal's face.
But, damn that sucks. Nice callback, though. Din failed his logic/ engineering/ dialogue check apparently. I would have tried to convince IG to give up the thermal detonator (and acquire a replacement) instead of self destruction.
Liked the Armorer's hammer+tong fighting style. But, yeah, Din levelled up again I guess. I'm assuming she survived since Cara Dune's mention about cleaning out the planet of Imps?
I thought the Rising Phoenix (jetpack) wouldn't work until Din got some mental gymnastics ("forms") practised first?
suelac - my read is that a lot of people are the equivalent of "low information voters" and that the Armorer was specifically referring to a past animosity between the Mandalorians and some organization with a significant Jedi composition rather than recent-ish/ a generation-ago events.
posted by porpoise at 10:35 PM on December 27, 2019 [1 favorite]
In a galaxy of umpteen trillions (or quadrillions?), the Jedi numbered only in the tens of thousands. Many, many people would have passed their entire lives without encountering one. And the Jedi themselves tended to keep on the down-low, not flaunting their powers generally. It makes perfect sense to me that in the SW universe there's more disinformation and many-times-passed stories about them and their powers than actual knowledge.
The Jedi-Mandalorian War was many centuries in the past, but seemed to have been a crucial episode in their history, so I am a little surprised that our Mando needed some education on it. I'm going to chalk it up to exposition for the audience's benefit. It is canon, through Rebels, that many of the Mandalorians' "tricks" in their equipment and tactics were specifically developed to counter Jedi powers.
posted by The Nutmeg of Consolation at 4:00 AM on December 28, 2019 [14 favorites]
The Jedi-Mandalorian War was many centuries in the past, but seemed to have been a crucial episode in their history, so I am a little surprised that our Mando needed some education on it. I'm going to chalk it up to exposition for the audience's benefit. It is canon, through Rebels, that many of the Mandalorians' "tricks" in their equipment and tactics were specifically developed to counter Jedi powers.
posted by The Nutmeg of Consolation at 4:00 AM on December 28, 2019 [14 favorites]
I think my favorite part is when the Mandalorian jumps out and grabs the eMate 300, which is advertised as *THE* gun for personal mega murder — it's so badass you guys, and Gus Fring wants the heroes to think about it over the weekend and come in fresh on Monday with some ideas w/r/t their surrender — so the Mandalorian grabs it and twirls around in a circle, but it's no more impressive than the gun Cara Dune is carrying around anyway; it's the exact same but quieter, and the Mandalorian is twirling around in a circle shooting everything, but the circle has a blind spot where Gus Fring can stand for a minute, remove the contents of his pockets one by one to get out his pistol, take aim, and mortally wound our hero (with a wound that will, bizarrely, never be shown and doesn't ever seem real), then also just shoot the eMate 300's battery pack to blow it up, which the heroes could have done any time to solve the puzzle. Great stuff, but later on we learn Gus Fring has a badass vibro-sword, which he *could* have used in this scene in a rushing attack to visibly wound the Mandalorian and fuck up a battery pack in a believable and cool looking way. They didn't do that, though, which really puts this part over the top for me.
A close second is Cara Dune blowing out the brains of an R2-ish machine lifeform small biped gondolier, to no purpose, at the moment of IG-11's nonsensical I'm alive??/not alive??/still a hunter?? pulling-teeth sacrifice decision. It powerfully negated any last shred of dramatic weight that might have survived the two or three fake self sacrifices in the previous ten minutes, to say nothing of the just-a-little-too-dumb-to-be-effectively-absurd lava boat getaway, much less even the stupid little scene they made out of just getting into the fucking boat aihsdfhdasfklhasjkhsf. Anyway it was magic to murder that droid for laughs. I was holding my head and saying, "How is this so fucking stupid? Am I going crazy? Were all the episodes this bad?! I mean the Seven Samurai one was not great, but the prison ship one, that was fine, wasn't it? The Jawa land crawler was fun, right? I just saw those a couple days ago. Am I asking for too much? Am I actually having a mental breakdown, did my depression just kick in, am I okay, actually :( :( :( ???" That's effective storytelling.
Distant third place is when the Mandalorian answers the question about how Gus Fring knows the Mandalorian's name with a full unabridged re-showing of the attack on Caprica where every single action is repeated through 3-4 camera shots which makes everything equally super important-seeming, and it goes on forever, so it really works great and isn't tedious at all. The new info, finally, is that a team of Boba Fetts save the day, and then it's over. In my mind someone says, "So what does that have to do with Gus Fring?" and the Mandalorian says, "Nothing, he was a bureaucrat who looked at the records," and Baby Yoda sighs.
posted by fleacircus at 5:08 AM on December 28, 2019 [25 favorites]
A close second is Cara Dune blowing out the brains of an R2-ish machine lifeform small biped gondolier, to no purpose, at the moment of IG-11's nonsensical I'm alive??/not alive??/still a hunter?? pulling-teeth sacrifice decision. It powerfully negated any last shred of dramatic weight that might have survived the two or three fake self sacrifices in the previous ten minutes, to say nothing of the just-a-little-too-dumb-to-be-effectively-absurd lava boat getaway, much less even the stupid little scene they made out of just getting into the fucking boat aihsdfhdasfklhasjkhsf. Anyway it was magic to murder that droid for laughs. I was holding my head and saying, "How is this so fucking stupid? Am I going crazy? Were all the episodes this bad?! I mean the Seven Samurai one was not great, but the prison ship one, that was fine, wasn't it? The Jawa land crawler was fun, right? I just saw those a couple days ago. Am I asking for too much? Am I actually having a mental breakdown, did my depression just kick in, am I okay, actually :( :( :( ???" That's effective storytelling.
Distant third place is when the Mandalorian answers the question about how Gus Fring knows the Mandalorian's name with a full unabridged re-showing of the attack on Caprica where every single action is repeated through 3-4 camera shots which makes everything equally super important-seeming, and it goes on forever, so it really works great and isn't tedious at all. The new info, finally, is that a team of Boba Fetts save the day, and then it's over. In my mind someone says, "So what does that have to do with Gus Fring?" and the Mandalorian says, "Nothing, he was a bureaucrat who looked at the records," and Baby Yoda sighs.
posted by fleacircus at 5:08 AM on December 28, 2019 [25 favorites]
Re: the Jedi thing, this really just highlights one of the things I didn't like about the prequels. The Jedi should have already been an organization on the way out at the start, with maybe a couple dozen or so members total. It should have been more interested in maintaining its secret influence on the Republic than actually doing good, with Yoda and his apprentice Obi-Wan the notable exception.
Basically, most people should know about The Force, but only as an old religion nobody really believes in, you say "May the Force be with you" but it's just a thing you say, like "I've got a bad feeling about this." As for the Jedi, the idea of folks that use the force to fight is mythical at best, like someone you say "Peace be with you" to turning around and using "Peace" to push you off a cliff.
As for the pacing, I didn't see too many problems with it, except when Moff says "you have until nightfall" for no discernable reason. He had what, a few hundred Stormtroopers and a dozen or so actually useful Stormtroopers? He had no problem sending in the flame trooper later, why not just say "come out right now or I start dismantling the building from the top down with my macguffin gun"
The weird humanoid astromech droid that rises menacingly, does nothing in particular, then dies pointlessly was also a bit whiplash-inducing.
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 6:02 AM on December 28, 2019 [7 favorites]
Basically, most people should know about The Force, but only as an old religion nobody really believes in, you say "May the Force be with you" but it's just a thing you say, like "I've got a bad feeling about this." As for the Jedi, the idea of folks that use the force to fight is mythical at best, like someone you say "Peace be with you" to turning around and using "Peace" to push you off a cliff.
As for the pacing, I didn't see too many problems with it, except when Moff says "you have until nightfall" for no discernable reason. He had what, a few hundred Stormtroopers and a dozen or so actually useful Stormtroopers? He had no problem sending in the flame trooper later, why not just say "come out right now or I start dismantling the building from the top down with my macguffin gun"
The weird humanoid astromech droid that rises menacingly, does nothing in particular, then dies pointlessly was also a bit whiplash-inducing.
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 6:02 AM on December 28, 2019 [7 favorites]
I liked it, but I also appreciate the nitpicking.
A droid who can walk through lava should not give a fuck about point-blank blaster fire! It'd have to be pretty much invincible. And both IG and the astromech were impervious to lava.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 6:36 AM on December 28, 2019 [4 favorites]
A droid who can walk through lava should not give a fuck about point-blank blaster fire! It'd have to be pretty much invincible. And both IG and the astromech were impervious to lava.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 6:36 AM on December 28, 2019 [4 favorites]
My impression on the ferrybot is that he wasn't stopping the ferry because he was in on the Stormtrooper trap. So it wasn't a meaningless kill for kicks.
posted by chris24 at 8:03 AM on December 28, 2019 [7 favorites]
posted by chris24 at 8:03 AM on December 28, 2019 [7 favorites]
This whole series, and honestly most the recent trilogy, has felt like watching someone play a video game. Not in a good way. It's also just, so, so stupid! Everyone does the stupidest thing at every possible opportunity! I guess the obvious response is "well, that's Star Wars!" and my response is, "I think Star Wars actually kind of sucks, then."
I'm also pretty much done with Baby Yoda. It's such an obvious, cynical marketing ploy.
I guess, to its credit, the show looks nice, and has well directed action. If it was a series I was discovering from the 90s for the first time today I'd be willing to cut it more slack for that, but unfortunately the ponderous attempts to tell a serious story and the fact that it's coming from one of the richest monopolies in the history of the planet definitely reduce my capability to shrug and look at the pretty lights.
Don't think I'll be watching the next season.
posted by codacorolla at 8:12 AM on December 28, 2019 [7 favorites]
I'm also pretty much done with Baby Yoda. It's such an obvious, cynical marketing ploy.
I guess, to its credit, the show looks nice, and has well directed action. If it was a series I was discovering from the 90s for the first time today I'd be willing to cut it more slack for that, but unfortunately the ponderous attempts to tell a serious story and the fact that it's coming from one of the richest monopolies in the history of the planet definitely reduce my capability to shrug and look at the pretty lights.
Don't think I'll be watching the next season.
posted by codacorolla at 8:12 AM on December 28, 2019 [7 favorites]
If Baby Yoda was a marketing ploy, then Disney must suck at marketing given that in order to keep him/her secret they didn't have any toys ready for Christmas since supply chain secrecy is terrible and they feared leaks. It cost them millions and even now they just have a couple available and it won't be til May '20 before the full options appear.
posted by chris24 at 8:24 AM on December 28, 2019 [10 favorites]
posted by chris24 at 8:24 AM on December 28, 2019 [10 favorites]
>I found the discussion of the Jedi kind of confusing. If the show is set 9 years after Yavin, the Jedi have only been gone for 30 years -- the end of the Clone Wars was within Din Djarin's lifetime.
Well I figure that even with the vast number of people on all the planets, there is probably only one galactic mega media conglomerate, so they can erase anything that may be historically problematic. *cough*song of the south*cough* Y'know?
posted by Catblack at 9:34 AM on December 28, 2019 [1 favorite]
Well I figure that even with the vast number of people on all the planets, there is probably only one galactic mega media conglomerate, so they can erase anything that may be historically problematic. *cough*song of the south*cough* Y'know?
posted by Catblack at 9:34 AM on December 28, 2019 [1 favorite]
This whole series, and honestly most the recent trilogy, has felt like watching someone play a video game.
The content creators of today grew up playing video games. They don't know any better. Which is too bad. Whatever else we may think about George Lucas, he was able to take the serials he grew up on and do something new and interesting with the concept.
posted by Fukiyama at 9:45 AM on December 28, 2019 [2 favorites]
The content creators of today grew up playing video games. They don't know any better. Which is too bad. Whatever else we may think about George Lucas, he was able to take the serials he grew up on and do something new and interesting with the concept.
posted by Fukiyama at 9:45 AM on December 28, 2019 [2 favorites]
I agree with the game analogy to the new trilogy, in particular the side plot to the gambling planet in The Last Jedi. "You must go to this place and find the Master Codebreaker, wearing such-n-such flower on his lapel." Blech.
But I didn't get that impression with The Mandalorian, to me it echoed Kurosawa and Sergio Leone.
I really liked how IG-11 took out troopers with one shot, and how they turned the joke about self-destruct from the first episode into a nice resolution. I was hoping he'd hang around, but I'm guessing Taika Waititi is pretty busy now days.
posted by beowulf573 at 10:37 AM on December 28, 2019 [4 favorites]
But I didn't get that impression with The Mandalorian, to me it echoed Kurosawa and Sergio Leone.
I really liked how IG-11 took out troopers with one shot, and how they turned the joke about self-destruct from the first episode into a nice resolution. I was hoping he'd hang around, but I'm guessing Taika Waititi is pretty busy now days.
posted by beowulf573 at 10:37 AM on December 28, 2019 [4 favorites]
If Baby Yoda was a marketing ploy, then Disney must suck at marketing given that in order to keep him/her secret they didn't have any toys ready for Christmas since supply chain secrecy is terrible and they feared leaks. It cost them millions and even now they just have a couple available and it won't be til May '20 before the full options appear.
Here's what you do: fire up a "Baby Star Wars" merchandise line that coincidentally launches at the same time as The Mandalorian. Baby Luke, Baby Leia, Baby Darth Vader, Baby Yoda, etc etc. Only make limited numbers of everything except Yoda, which you make in massive quantities. If anyone asks, say early market tests show a high interest in Yoda and less so everyone else. As soon as the show comes out, begin printing money.
Disney, if you're listening, I hate how you're monopolizing popular culture. go to hell.
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 12:27 PM on December 28, 2019 [7 favorites]
Here's what you do: fire up a "Baby Star Wars" merchandise line that coincidentally launches at the same time as The Mandalorian. Baby Luke, Baby Leia, Baby Darth Vader, Baby Yoda, etc etc. Only make limited numbers of everything except Yoda, which you make in massive quantities. If anyone asks, say early market tests show a high interest in Yoda and less so everyone else. As soon as the show comes out, begin printing money.
Disney, if you're listening, I hate how you're monopolizing popular culture. go to hell.
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 12:27 PM on December 28, 2019 [7 favorites]
This series is a different shape than other peak TV streaming shows. It has a series long arc like the others, but it’s much more episodic in nature. At least half of the episodes in this season do little if anything to advance the plot. To me, what this structure resembles isn’t so much a video game as a tv series from the old times when you had three networks and your TV set had a knob that you used to switch between them. It’s like Knight Rider or The A-Team. I find it refreshing that it’s not gunning for big drama points, but rather doles out a new, small situation every week.
I don’t understand the complainant about the child as a merchandising vehicle. They should have made the helpless innocent that our hero is moved to care for and protect unappealing?
posted by chrchr at 12:42 PM on December 28, 2019 [17 favorites]
I don’t understand the complainant about the child as a merchandising vehicle. They should have made the helpless innocent that our hero is moved to care for and protect unappealing?
posted by chrchr at 12:42 PM on December 28, 2019 [17 favorites]
later on we learn Gus Fring has a badass vibro-sword, which he *could* have used in this scene in a rushing attack to visibly wound the Mandalorian and fuck up a battery pack in a believable and cool looking way.
While it's not on the Evil Overlord's List, "I will stick my sword in the explody thing" is generally not regarded as a maneuver leading to a long life. Nor is "I will walk up to swording distance of the guy with the automatic weapon".
I mean I HAVE seen both done in RPG games; usually it doesn't turn out well.
Also, I swear that the two scout Troopers were a tribute to "Troops"
posted by happyroach at 12:58 PM on December 28, 2019 [17 favorites]
While it's not on the Evil Overlord's List, "I will stick my sword in the explody thing" is generally not regarded as a maneuver leading to a long life. Nor is "I will walk up to swording distance of the guy with the automatic weapon".
I mean I HAVE seen both done in RPG games; usually it doesn't turn out well.
Also, I swear that the two scout Troopers were a tribute to "Troops"
posted by happyroach at 12:58 PM on December 28, 2019 [17 favorites]
Oh also I think the Mandalorian is proof positive that the "release whole season at once for binge watching" netflix model is a huge mistake.
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 1:00 PM on December 28, 2019 [13 favorites]
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 1:00 PM on December 28, 2019 [13 favorites]
I enjoyed this but I felt like the Scout Troopers having terrible aim was a little too on-the-nose. The "He was an Imperial sharp-shooter"/"That's not saying much" joke from The Heist was perfect. This was just too... slapstick?
posted by EndsOfInvention at 1:32 PM on December 28, 2019 [4 favorites]
posted by EndsOfInvention at 1:32 PM on December 28, 2019 [4 favorites]
> To me, what this structure resembles isn’t so much a video game as a tv series from the old times when you had three networks and your TV set had a knob that you used to switch between them. It’s like Knight Rider or The A-Team.
And remembering what I was like watching Knight Rider, of course this show makes sense, you need to keep the attention of a 10 year old. The ideas aren't talking down to kids, but in a way doing to the fun / creative / twisting the narrative / skipping the beat they expect only works when the audience has watched enough media to expect the beat and to enjoy it when it doesn't land where they expect it.
> The two best parts were when baby Yoda was so happy on the speeder. And when Greef asked him to do his hand thing and he just waved a little.
My girlfriend was giddy with joy at both scenes - in particular because my 19 month nephew does a similar hand wave when you say goodbye (she watched Chapter 1 with me and then didn't have much interest, but then discovered the world of Baby Yoda reaction gifs and that got her back into the show).
posted by mrzarquon at 1:39 PM on December 28, 2019 [3 favorites]
And remembering what I was like watching Knight Rider, of course this show makes sense, you need to keep the attention of a 10 year old. The ideas aren't talking down to kids, but in a way doing to the fun / creative / twisting the narrative / skipping the beat they expect only works when the audience has watched enough media to expect the beat and to enjoy it when it doesn't land where they expect it.
> The two best parts were when baby Yoda was so happy on the speeder. And when Greef asked him to do his hand thing and he just waved a little.
My girlfriend was giddy with joy at both scenes - in particular because my 19 month nephew does a similar hand wave when you say goodbye (she watched Chapter 1 with me and then didn't have much interest, but then discovered the world of Baby Yoda reaction gifs and that got her back into the show).
posted by mrzarquon at 1:39 PM on December 28, 2019 [3 favorites]
I can't help but watch every episode through an affectionate lens of "this is people playing with their Star Wars toys"
I've also had the feeling since the beginning that the series is really about Jon Favreau playing with Star War toys. The last episode had a "TIE fighter vs Bobba Fett" scene and I'm sure that Favreau was going the wheeeeeeee sounds himself. And before that Mando says "it's a Creed" right after Carl Weathers looks at him (at 10:36), so that Favreau kid plays with his Star War toys and his Rocky toys. But perhaps that's what Star Wars needs to be after all, a big sandbox full of plastic toys, half-chewed and missing parts, rather than a mountain of some pseudo-Shakespearean lore.
posted by elgilito at 2:22 PM on December 28, 2019 [9 favorites]
I've also had the feeling since the beginning that the series is really about Jon Favreau playing with Star War toys. The last episode had a "TIE fighter vs Bobba Fett" scene and I'm sure that Favreau was going the wheeeeeeee sounds himself. And before that Mando says "it's a Creed" right after Carl Weathers looks at him (at 10:36), so that Favreau kid plays with his Star War toys and his Rocky toys. But perhaps that's what Star Wars needs to be after all, a big sandbox full of plastic toys, half-chewed and missing parts, rather than a mountain of some pseudo-Shakespearean lore.
posted by elgilito at 2:22 PM on December 28, 2019 [9 favorites]
It cost them millions and even now they just have a couple available and it won't be til May '20 before the full options appear.
good heavens disney is in financial troble
Can I just mention my aversion to this phrasing ("cost them millions") as a description of profit that a corporation has failed to make? If I decide to offer up an old Honda Civic for $200,000 and get no buyers, I don't think that is accurately described as the lack of buyers as something costing me hundreds of thousands of dollars.
And yes, I know there were no Baby Yoda toys to sell but guess what? I don't have an old Honda Civic either. Still didn't cost me hundreds of thousands of dollars.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 2:33 PM on December 28, 2019 [12 favorites]
good heavens disney is in financial troble
Can I just mention my aversion to this phrasing ("cost them millions") as a description of profit that a corporation has failed to make? If I decide to offer up an old Honda Civic for $200,000 and get no buyers, I don't think that is accurately described as the lack of buyers as something costing me hundreds of thousands of dollars.
And yes, I know there were no Baby Yoda toys to sell but guess what? I don't have an old Honda Civic either. Still didn't cost me hundreds of thousands of dollars.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 2:33 PM on December 28, 2019 [12 favorites]
Many, many people would have passed their entire lives without encountering one. And the Jedi themselves tended to keep on the down-low, not flaunting their powers generally. It makes perfect sense to me that in the SW universe there's more disinformation and many-times-passed stories about them and their powers than actual knowledge.
I like to think the SW Universe has something equivalent to The Futility Closet podcast, where curious and overlooked historical stories are trotted out. Maybe the purge of the Jedi is like the Eastland disaster: something people wonder why they haven't heard about it before and then mostly forget about a week later.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 2:39 PM on December 28, 2019 [5 favorites]
I like to think the SW Universe has something equivalent to The Futility Closet podcast, where curious and overlooked historical stories are trotted out. Maybe the purge of the Jedi is like the Eastland disaster: something people wonder why they haven't heard about it before and then mostly forget about a week later.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 2:39 PM on December 28, 2019 [5 favorites]
About halfway through the episode I had a moment of "Holy shit are they going to kill him off and the series is really about Gina Carano: Mandalorian?"
Yeah our thought was that every season The Child has a new protector as the old one dies.
posted by tilde at 2:44 PM on December 28, 2019 [4 favorites]
I liked the throwaway detail that Cara Dume is from Alderaan...
posted by suelac at 5:13 PM on December 28, 2019 [11 favorites]
posted by suelac at 5:13 PM on December 28, 2019 [11 favorites]
I think the bike troopers were from Reno 911.
posted by The corpse in the library at 7:57 PM on December 28, 2019 [5 favorites]
posted by The corpse in the library at 7:57 PM on December 28, 2019 [5 favorites]
The flashback to "how I became a Mandorian" went on and on and on, and didn't have any new information -- but it gave me time to go get a bowl of ice cream, so it was okay.
posted by The corpse in the library at 7:58 PM on December 28, 2019 [4 favorites]
posted by The corpse in the library at 7:58 PM on December 28, 2019 [4 favorites]
I liked the throwaway detail that Cara Dume is from Alderaan...
She's probably wanted because she's a member of the royal family or such.
posted by ZeusHumms at 8:48 PM on December 28, 2019
She's probably wanted because she's a member of the royal family or such.
posted by ZeusHumms at 8:48 PM on December 28, 2019
Also, I swear that the two scout Troopers were a tribute to "Troops "
You say "Troops," and you're not wrong, but what I really got off them was a distinct Church and Tucker vibe—so much so I stuck around for the actor's names just to make sure.
I think I'd gladly watch an entire season of Red vs Blue style Troopers snarking back and forth at each other. This was good though. Sure, all the criticisms are valid, but it's Star Wars which has never made any damn sense anyway, so *shrug*. It was fun to watch, which is all Star Wars ever really is.
posted by los pantalones del muerte at 9:27 PM on December 28, 2019 [4 favorites]
You say "Troops," and you're not wrong, but what I really got off them was a distinct Church and Tucker vibe—so much so I stuck around for the actor's names just to make sure.
I think I'd gladly watch an entire season of Red vs Blue style Troopers snarking back and forth at each other. This was good though. Sure, all the criticisms are valid, but it's Star Wars which has never made any damn sense anyway, so *shrug*. It was fun to watch, which is all Star Wars ever really is.
posted by los pantalones del muerte at 9:27 PM on December 28, 2019 [4 favorites]
I just realized watching this episode whose voice the Mandalorian has been reminding me of right along -- my hero of the radio, Joe Frank. The combination of the timbre, the filter, and the matter of fact affect. After I had the epiphany it was pretty fun to imagine the whole ep as a Joe Frank monologue.
posted by slappy_pinchbottom at 11:57 PM on December 28, 2019 [4 favorites]
posted by slappy_pinchbottom at 11:57 PM on December 28, 2019 [4 favorites]
Just finished this season now and thoroughly enjoyed it. Simple plots, interesting characters, adorable baby alien. I loved the soundtrack too. Something about that juddering slow-down effect reminds me of an X Wing making a sharp turn, so it sounds cool and spacey to me.
posted by harriet vane at 2:48 AM on December 29, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by harriet vane at 2:48 AM on December 29, 2019 [2 favorites]
Fun ep, but dear god I hope they film new flashback scenes for S2. How many times do we need to see excerpts from the same 60s?
posted by adrianhon at 5:06 AM on December 29, 2019 [3 favorites]
posted by adrianhon at 5:06 AM on December 29, 2019 [3 favorites]
I’d assume we’re done with that particular flashback, we’ve established how Mando became a foundling and his bond to the Mandalorian way of life. Following the style of the previous shows they’re copying, if we have more it will be flashbacks to teen Manda learning from a wisened teacher as a member of the tribe, the day his helmet goes on, the first time he killed someone, etc.
Watching Chapter 7 again, watch Baby Yoda walking and you notice he’s starting to mimic Mandos swagger.
posted by mrzarquon at 5:13 AM on December 29, 2019 [9 favorites]
Watching Chapter 7 again, watch Baby Yoda walking and you notice he’s starting to mimic Mandos swagger.
posted by mrzarquon at 5:13 AM on December 29, 2019 [9 favorites]
Didn't enjoy Rise of Skywalker or the recent SW films (even Rogue One), but really enjoy The Mandolarian. The films try too hard with their huge budget, but the tv scope helps things the arc and narrative less cluttered.
Yep, Mando's pacing was a bit slow and it has the usual narrative stupidity at times, but the characters are at least given room to breathe. The overall arc makes sense, while still leaving bits of mystery.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:45 AM on December 29, 2019 [2 favorites]
Yep, Mando's pacing was a bit slow and it has the usual narrative stupidity at times, but the characters are at least given room to breathe. The overall arc makes sense, while still leaving bits of mystery.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:45 AM on December 29, 2019 [2 favorites]
I couldn't see those two-legged blergs (or whatever) without thinking of the cover shot from Wizards. Favreau is basically my age, so I assume all the references that seem like they're from my childhood may actually be.
posted by jessamyn at 2:06 PM on December 29, 2019 [3 favorites]
posted by jessamyn at 2:06 PM on December 29, 2019 [3 favorites]
Fun ep, but dear god I hope they film new flashback scenes for S2. How many times do we need to see excerpts from the same 60s?
Not always a high priority to beef up those. There have been, what, ten X-Men movies now? How many times have we seen Hugh Jackman thrashing around in that plexiglas tub now?
posted by ricochet biscuit at 2:26 PM on December 29, 2019 [4 favorites]
Not always a high priority to beef up those. There have been, what, ten X-Men movies now? How many times have we seen Hugh Jackman thrashing around in that plexiglas tub now?
posted by ricochet biscuit at 2:26 PM on December 29, 2019 [4 favorites]
like the Eastland disaster: something people wonder why they haven't heard about it before
Seriously? People are not intimately familiar with the Eastland disaster? It was a major piece of our family culture. I knew that story before I could read. But okay, I guess we are known in the neighborhood as the family you don't want to mess around with when potatoes are on the line.
Me, I just need to figure out more about how Mandalorians work. They keep talking about various clans and houses, and so I'm guessing there are some pretty major schisms (like Catholics and Protestants or Orthodox and Reform level stuff) in Mandalorian culture. Because Sabine from Rebels sure as hell wasn't bothered with this whole "Never ever, even at the cost of your life, let anyone see you without your helmet!" business.
(But I've only seen the first two seasons of Rebels so far. I gather her Mandalorian-ness becomes a lot more significant in later seasons.)
posted by Naberius at 2:44 PM on December 29, 2019 [2 favorites]
Seriously? People are not intimately familiar with the Eastland disaster? It was a major piece of our family culture. I knew that story before I could read. But okay, I guess we are known in the neighborhood as the family you don't want to mess around with when potatoes are on the line.
Me, I just need to figure out more about how Mandalorians work. They keep talking about various clans and houses, and so I'm guessing there are some pretty major schisms (like Catholics and Protestants or Orthodox and Reform level stuff) in Mandalorian culture. Because Sabine from Rebels sure as hell wasn't bothered with this whole "Never ever, even at the cost of your life, let anyone see you without your helmet!" business.
(But I've only seen the first two seasons of Rebels so far. I gather her Mandalorian-ness becomes a lot more significant in later seasons.)
posted by Naberius at 2:44 PM on December 29, 2019 [2 favorites]
I liked the throwaway detail that Cara Dume is from Alderaan...
This was bothering me because Alderaan was destroyed 5 years before Gina Carano was born and I had been assuming that the show takes place around the time of the new movies for no real reason.
This says that the show takes place after Return of the Jedi but before The Force Awakens. But that is still a 30 year window.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 3:27 PM on December 29, 2019
This was bothering me because Alderaan was destroyed 5 years before Gina Carano was born and I had been assuming that the show takes place around the time of the new movies for no real reason.
This says that the show takes place after Return of the Jedi but before The Force Awakens. But that is still a 30 year window.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 3:27 PM on December 29, 2019
I think it’s safe to assume that the lava river is something more like lava in the sense of chocolate lava cake rather than lava in the sense of molten rock.
posted by chrchr at 3:39 PM on December 29, 2019 [5 favorites]
posted by chrchr at 3:39 PM on December 29, 2019 [5 favorites]
> My only wish is for more womenThis was the episode that, sadly but inevitably, refuted my headcanon that the Mandalorian is a woman with a voice changer (ideally to be revealed several seasons from now, with an eleventh-hour helmet removal à la Samus Aran).
posted by Syllepsis at 9:53 PM on December 29, 2019 [5 favorites]
> This was bothering me because Alderaan was destroyed 5 years before Gina Carano was born and I had been assuming that the show takes place around the time of the new movies for no real reason.
Yeah the actress was born five years after Star Wars debuted, but thats no influence in this world. These events are around 9 ABY, or 5 years after "The Battle of Endor" - aka the Return of the Jedi, hence no mention of First Order, and it's just the New Republic trying to create peace among factions that had previously been kept in check via force of the Empire (Herzog's rare defense of fascism - Mussolini made the trains run on time).
Assuming Cara Dune was offworld when Alderaan went up, then enlisted, trained, and saw most of her deployment time post Endor fighting the entrenched Imperial generals who became warlords. She was motivated by revenge and hatred of the Imperial forces, so she lost interest once her tour of duty became diplomatic instead of killing Imps.
Or other way to put it, the folks at Wookiepedia haven't pinned a date down for her birthday yet, but there are funneling all the information from the various media into one place.
posted by mrzarquon at 6:41 AM on December 30, 2019 [2 favorites]
Yeah the actress was born five years after Star Wars debuted, but thats no influence in this world. These events are around 9 ABY, or 5 years after "The Battle of Endor" - aka the Return of the Jedi, hence no mention of First Order, and it's just the New Republic trying to create peace among factions that had previously been kept in check via force of the Empire (Herzog's rare defense of fascism - Mussolini made the trains run on time).
Assuming Cara Dune was offworld when Alderaan went up, then enlisted, trained, and saw most of her deployment time post Endor fighting the entrenched Imperial generals who became warlords. She was motivated by revenge and hatred of the Imperial forces, so she lost interest once her tour of duty became diplomatic instead of killing Imps.
Or other way to put it, the folks at Wookiepedia haven't pinned a date down for her birthday yet, but there are funneling all the information from the various media into one place.
posted by mrzarquon at 6:41 AM on December 30, 2019 [2 favorites]
My husband and I both audibly gasped at the Darksaber reveal. I was like "where the FUCK did that imp get the Darksaber" and he was like "um, Moff Gideon was ISB on Mandalore during the siege of Mandalore, they literally said that like 20 minutes ago, of course he made off with the Darksaber." This same guy also immediately pointed out at the end of last episode that IG-11 was going to save Baby Yoda's bacon, so I guess to him this show is full of very obvious twists and turns that I'm not expecting, but even he was surprised to see a live-action Darksaber. Though, of course, now that I think about it, the idea that anyone making a show called The Mandalorian would be able to resist getting arguably the single coolest-looking weapon in the GFFA into the mix is ridiculous.
Lots to love in this episode most of which has been mentioned above. I was very impressed that the situation in the lava river boat managed to be evocative of a super dark River Styx through the underworld while also letting the droid hum a merry enough tune that I had a sudden mad thought of Venetian gondoliers. And it's always depressingly wonderful to happen across a living native of Alderaan :'(
I am pumped for next season, and pumped for the Obi-Wan show, and ULTRA pumped about the unsubstantiated rumors that Disney is already filming a highly sekrit unannounced Doctor Aphra show. It seems pretty much official that fans and critics alike consider the current situation to be "Friendship ended with Star Wars Movies, now Star Wars Shows are my best friend" which is fine with me as I have three young children and getting out of the house to watch a movie is much harder than watching shows when they're in bed. And there's plenty of time in an eight-episode season to get little pleasurable interludes like the troopers shooting the shit for a few minutes at the beginning of this episode without feeling like a huge plot sacrifice took place to make room for it. Those human moments are one of the things I come to Star Wars to enjoy (unfortunately, another thing I come to Star Wars to enjoy is Skywalkers being ridiculous and dramatic, which sounds like it'll be in short supply in the next few years).
posted by potrzebie at 2:09 PM on December 30, 2019 [7 favorites]
Lots to love in this episode most of which has been mentioned above. I was very impressed that the situation in the lava river boat managed to be evocative of a super dark River Styx through the underworld while also letting the droid hum a merry enough tune that I had a sudden mad thought of Venetian gondoliers. And it's always depressingly wonderful to happen across a living native of Alderaan :'(
I am pumped for next season, and pumped for the Obi-Wan show, and ULTRA pumped about the unsubstantiated rumors that Disney is already filming a highly sekrit unannounced Doctor Aphra show. It seems pretty much official that fans and critics alike consider the current situation to be "Friendship ended with Star Wars Movies, now Star Wars Shows are my best friend" which is fine with me as I have three young children and getting out of the house to watch a movie is much harder than watching shows when they're in bed. And there's plenty of time in an eight-episode season to get little pleasurable interludes like the troopers shooting the shit for a few minutes at the beginning of this episode without feeling like a huge plot sacrifice took place to make room for it. Those human moments are one of the things I come to Star Wars to enjoy (unfortunately, another thing I come to Star Wars to enjoy is Skywalkers being ridiculous and dramatic, which sounds like it'll be in short supply in the next few years).
posted by potrzebie at 2:09 PM on December 30, 2019 [7 favorites]
Well, for those of use bothered by physical or psychological logic, this was probably the roughest episode.
Why not radio the killer robot in the warship instead of the defenseless guy on horseback?
Why send all the troops to attack the heroes when you want the baby?
Why not shoot the badguy standing 10 feet from the window?
Why give them a day to think it (what?) over?
Why send in a flamethrower when you're trying to rescue the baby?
(Why is the flametrooper's costume so silly, and why in a world of laser guns are flamethrowers considered scary or useful?)
Why is the grate superduperstrong?
Why does causing your entire "creed" to die earn you a jetpack?
Why ask the killer robot to hold the jetpack?
(Why didn't his parents take shelter themselves when there was tons of room?)
Why don't they roast in the lava heat?
Why is the machine gun able to blast through igneous rock attaching the boat but not the plaster around the grate?
Why does one need a punting robot when the boat goes exactly as fast without it?
Why shoot that robot when they just learned empathy for robots?
Why walk in the lava when the repeated shots of rats established that the sides are dry?
Why use self-destruct to kill the badguys when Mando has a bunch of bombs he uses five minutes later?
Why assume the badguy is dead and there are no reinforcements and this is a perfectly safe world to settle down in?
Why let a baby keep a string around its neck tied to a pointy choking hazard?
And that's not even to include the other plot elements that technically make sense but only within the framework of wooden cliches. I think my brain needs some of that magic bactracin spray. At least the theme song really grew on me.
posted by chortly at 9:16 PM on December 30, 2019 [18 favorites]
Why not radio the killer robot in the warship instead of the defenseless guy on horseback?
Why send all the troops to attack the heroes when you want the baby?
Why not shoot the badguy standing 10 feet from the window?
Why give them a day to think it (what?) over?
Why send in a flamethrower when you're trying to rescue the baby?
(Why is the flametrooper's costume so silly, and why in a world of laser guns are flamethrowers considered scary or useful?)
Why is the grate superduperstrong?
Why does causing your entire "creed" to die earn you a jetpack?
Why ask the killer robot to hold the jetpack?
(Why didn't his parents take shelter themselves when there was tons of room?)
Why don't they roast in the lava heat?
Why is the machine gun able to blast through igneous rock attaching the boat but not the plaster around the grate?
Why does one need a punting robot when the boat goes exactly as fast without it?
Why shoot that robot when they just learned empathy for robots?
Why walk in the lava when the repeated shots of rats established that the sides are dry?
Why use self-destruct to kill the badguys when Mando has a bunch of bombs he uses five minutes later?
Why assume the badguy is dead and there are no reinforcements and this is a perfectly safe world to settle down in?
Why let a baby keep a string around its neck tied to a pointy choking hazard?
And that's not even to include the other plot elements that technically make sense but only within the framework of wooden cliches. I think my brain needs some of that magic bactracin spray. At least the theme song really grew on me.
posted by chortly at 9:16 PM on December 30, 2019 [18 favorites]
You had me at Why is the grate superduperstrong?
posted by ActingTheGoat at 9:51 PM on December 30, 2019 [3 favorites]
posted by ActingTheGoat at 9:51 PM on December 30, 2019 [3 favorites]
I knew that CARL WEATHERS was older than me because I was a child when Predator came out but I just learned that he is 71 years old.
1. Holy shit.
2. Dude can still get it.
posted by Parasite Unseen at 1:54 AM on December 31, 2019 [14 favorites]
1. Holy shit.
2. Dude can still get it.
posted by Parasite Unseen at 1:54 AM on December 31, 2019 [14 favorites]
Pretty sure you know why.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 3:24 AM on December 31, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 3:24 AM on December 31, 2019 [2 favorites]
Because he can make a mean stew?
posted by Naberius at 6:33 AM on December 31, 2019 [5 favorites]
posted by Naberius at 6:33 AM on December 31, 2019 [5 favorites]
Chortly, you're overthinking things... this is not that kind of show.
posted by Pendragon at 7:31 AM on December 31, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by Pendragon at 7:31 AM on December 31, 2019 [1 favorite]
Chortly, you're overthinking things... this is not that kind of show.
It absolutely should be. Addressing any one of those points, or not bringing them up in the first place, doesn't do anything to disrupt the extremely bland story they're trying to tell.
posted by codacorolla at 9:08 AM on December 31, 2019 [2 favorites]
It absolutely should be. Addressing any one of those points, or not bringing them up in the first place, doesn't do anything to disrupt the extremely bland story they're trying to tell.
posted by codacorolla at 9:08 AM on December 31, 2019 [2 favorites]
Mando doesn’t trust IG-11. Moff Gideon doesn’t know where the baby is but knows that Mando will. In a stand-off, generally you want to avoid charging into a hardened position. With the overwhelming force that Gideon has at his disposal, he’s going to win, but possibly with loss of life and materiel, so he gives Mando and friends time to surrender. Flamethrowers are scary and intimidating weapons and can also reduce structural defenses, like if you got some people taking cover in a bar. We’ve seen repeatedly in Star Wars that laser guns are kinda lousy, with slow moving bolts and superficial injuries. Who else is the armorer gonna give the jetpack to? I don’t think the lava is actually igneous rock. If it were, the people in the boat would have roasted. I’m not sure that scene was about empathy for robots in general rather than just learning to trust IG-11. IG-11’s self-destruction charge seemed to be especially powerful. You’re right about the choking hazard though. Unconscionable!
posted by chrchr at 9:56 AM on December 31, 2019 [11 favorites]
posted by chrchr at 9:56 AM on December 31, 2019 [11 favorites]
Why is there a huge sewer grate in a commercial establishment where food and drinks are served?
posted by jason_steakums at 10:19 AM on December 31, 2019 [8 favorites]
posted by jason_steakums at 10:19 AM on December 31, 2019 [8 favorites]
I use this show as a break from intense, brow furrowing shows like Watchmen, so I am mostly fine with it being dumb. If it had more of a plot, I'd find it stressful. I really want more one off episodes about Mando and Yoda dropping in and out of a small town that we never see again. I want to be able to accidentally skip an episode and be more or less ok.
Mandalorian healthcare must be really shitty if they can't even look at one another's bodies. Also that explains why they have to adopt orphans to keep their numbers up. I cracked up about Mando saying "let me die here!" when he just has some scratches on his face that get cleared up by magic Neosporin.
posted by tofu_crouton at 10:33 AM on December 31, 2019 [11 favorites]
Mandalorian healthcare must be really shitty if they can't even look at one another's bodies. Also that explains why they have to adopt orphans to keep their numbers up. I cracked up about Mando saying "let me die here!" when he just has some scratches on his face that get cleared up by magic Neosporin.
posted by tofu_crouton at 10:33 AM on December 31, 2019 [11 favorites]
It absolutely should be.
It can be sincerely, honestly difficult to find the boundary between "No matter how much we love it, Star Wars has always been kinda dumb shit that throws away its own continuity, doesn't remotely deal with the logical consequences of what it introduces, and operates at the speed of plot and the rule of cool, and this is just more of that" and "This particular instance of one of those is truly egregious."
I mean, God, even in the first movie, why would anyone stick the operational controls for a tractor beam on the back of the top of a pillar with no railing that seems to be at least hundreds of meters tall?
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 10:51 AM on December 31, 2019 [18 favorites]
It can be sincerely, honestly difficult to find the boundary between "No matter how much we love it, Star Wars has always been kinda dumb shit that throws away its own continuity, doesn't remotely deal with the logical consequences of what it introduces, and operates at the speed of plot and the rule of cool, and this is just more of that" and "This particular instance of one of those is truly egregious."
I mean, God, even in the first movie, why would anyone stick the operational controls for a tractor beam on the back of the top of a pillar with no railing that seems to be at least hundreds of meters tall?
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 10:51 AM on December 31, 2019 [18 favorites]
I love that Star Wars is kinda dumb for certain things, and others throw me, and I don't really know where the line is. Nothing in this show bugged me except maybe thinking about how the fobs are supposed to work, and there are a lot of things about the new movies that should bug me more than Abrams' weird concept of distance in space in TFA but somehow they don't.
posted by jason_steakums at 10:57 AM on December 31, 2019 [5 favorites]
posted by jason_steakums at 10:57 AM on December 31, 2019 [5 favorites]
Why is there a huge sewer grate in a commercial establishment where food and drinks are served?
into the garbage chute, fly boy?
posted by StarkRoads at 11:46 AM on December 31, 2019 [5 favorites]
into the garbage chute, fly boy?
posted by StarkRoads at 11:46 AM on December 31, 2019 [5 favorites]
The flamethrower is completely on-brand for the Empire (or vestiges thereof), as mentioned upthread because of the psychological impact. This is an organization that ostensibly sunk billions of credits into developing AT-ATs, even in a universe where repulsor technology is common. And they did it because it freaks people out more to see a huge, lumbering, technological terror plodding toward them moreso than does a smoothly gliding hovercraft. Say what you will about the empire, their showmanship was on point.
posted by Shohn at 12:27 PM on December 31, 2019 [12 favorites]
posted by Shohn at 12:27 PM on December 31, 2019 [12 favorites]
I still contend that because of the power densities demonstrated in everything from lightsabers to everyday items outfitted with repulsors and casually floating around, as well as the casual harnessing of very weird physics like that grabbable lightning bolt thing Cara was tied to that guy with in that barfight she had a few episodes back, every single technological choice in the Star Wars universe is about showmanship. The things they are clearly capable of, in light of the tech choices they make that don't exploit easily utilized miracle technologies, makes their whole society seem like the Society for Creative Anachronism.
posted by jason_steakums at 1:29 PM on December 31, 2019 [16 favorites]
posted by jason_steakums at 1:29 PM on December 31, 2019 [16 favorites]
Chortly, you're overthinking things... this is not that kind of show.
It absolutely should be.
No, it really shouldn't be. We have show like Watchmen for that.
posted by Pendragon at 5:12 PM on December 31, 2019 [1 favorite]
It absolutely should be.
No, it really shouldn't be. We have show like Watchmen for that.
posted by Pendragon at 5:12 PM on December 31, 2019 [1 favorite]
It absolutely should be.
Will that interfere with Baby Yoda feels? Then that's a hard no.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:16 PM on December 31, 2019 [2 favorites]
Will that interfere with Baby Yoda feels? Then that's a hard no.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:16 PM on December 31, 2019 [2 favorites]
Why not radio the killer robot in the warship instead of the defenseless guy on horseback?
Because, as extensively previously established in earlier parts of our shared narrative, Mando does not trust the killer robot any further than he can throw it. If he did trust it, he'd have to believe that at this point it is no longer a "killer" robot.
Why send all the troops to attack the heroes when you want the baby?
Because you don't know exactly where the baby is, and you know the heroes do.
Why not shoot the badguy standing 10 feet from the window?
The bad guy has body armor on and like 50 people aiming at the window who will shoot at you as soon as you pop your head out. Blasters are (clearly!) not very accurate, so the odds your 1 blaster gets the job done are much worse than the odds their 50 blasters get the job done.
Why give them a day to think it (what?) over?
Because it'll be less messy, with fewer casualties on your side and less risk of something going wrong (like the person who knows where the baby is accidentally dying) if they just surrender. Meanwhile you've got scout troopers on speeder bikes out looking for the baby, so it's not like you need to rush; if you just chill, maybe they actually surrender or maybe you get the baby on your own and don't need them alive anymore.
Why send in a flamethrower when you're trying to rescue the baby?
Because now you're angry and the situation has suddenly rapidly deteriorated and they have a killer droid and you have way less troops and zero chance of getting at the baby without getting inside there, so waiting around suddenly isn't as attractive an option.
(Why is the flametrooper's costume so silly, and why in a world of laser guns are flamethrowers considered scary or useful?)
Is it that much sillier than the "standard" Stormtrooper armor? or the Deathtrooper armor? Or Mandalorian armor? Or Leia's ridiculous hair buns, or Obi Wan swishing around in a brown bathrobe, or Lando's closet full of capes, or any of like 10,000 questionable fashion/design choices in Star Wars? On a practical note I imagine the red markings on the armor function as a "danger, this guy has a backpack full of highly flammable chemicals" indicator so that other Stormtroopers don't stand too close.
I feel like the show did (or would have, if not for Baby Yoda intervening) a pretty good job demonstrating exactly what a flamethrower can accomplish that a blaster cannot.
Why is the grate superduperstrong?
Superduperstrong relative to what? How flimsy are sewer grates supposed to be? You recently kick or shoot open any sewer grates on your street lately?
Why does causing your entire "creed" to die earn you a jetpack?
Two things: one, religious fanatics gonna be religious fanatics. Doing the "right thing" per your religion's "rules" is gonna be rewarded even if the results were...not great. That's why martyrdom gets people sainted, despite martyrdom typically being a poor tactical outcome. And two: who else is she gonna give it to?
Why ask the killer robot to hold the jetpack?
Why not? Damn thing's probably heavy, but the weight ain't gonna bother the droid. Plus, it shows Mando's started to trust the droid.
(Why didn't his parents take shelter themselves when there was tons of room?)
Why didn't Jack just climb on the door with Rose?
Why don't they roast in the lava heat?
Lava is inexplicably low-temperature in the Star Wars universe, and while it may be mildly uncomfortably hot to be near, it will only actually burn you if fall directly into it, as previously established by the ~15-minute lightsaber duel on a river of lava between Obi Wan and Anakin at the the end of Revenge of the Sith. Take it up with George Lucas.
Why is the machine gun able to blast through igneous rock attaching the boat but not the plaster around the grate?
Perhaps blasting the plaster around the grate would've simply collapsed the entrance to the sewer rather than opening it. Or collapsed the room they were in! Or caused blaster bolts to bounce off the metal beams underneath the plaster. I confess I am unfamiliar with Star Wars building codes and construction practices. Presumably the characters are less unfamiliar with these things than I am.
Why does one need a punting robot when the boat goes exactly as fast without it?
To start, stop, and steer. Exactly as if you were punting down a flowing (water) stream.
Why shoot that robot when they just learned empathy for robots?
Because that one appeared to be aiding and abetting the enemy, or at least not following instructions, and as a result was going to get them all killed.
Why walk in the lava when the repeated shots of rats established that the sides are dry?
If you're going to self-destruct anyways, but your legs will hold up to lava long enough to get you to your destination, why bother making an extra effort to preserve your legs?
Why use self-destruct to kill the badguys when Mando has a bunch of bombs he uses five minutes later?
Mando appears to need to get close enough to the target to physically stick the bomb to it. Stormtroopers waiting in ambush are unlikely to allow the targets they're waiting to ambush (or a killer droid) to walk up to them and stick explosives to them.
Why assume the badguy is dead and there are no reinforcements and this is a perfectly safe world to settle down in?
Are they assuming it's "perfectly safe" or are they assuming it's "as good as anywhere else"? Greef's clearly got a lot of connections and resources here that he wouldn't have if they took off to some other Outer Rim craphole, and judging from the Mando's lack of success at lying low all the earlier episodes this season, the chances of Imperial Remnants coming after them are presumably pretty similar no matter where else they go.
Why let a baby keep a string around its neck tied to a pointy choking hazard?
Do you feel this show has been making an effort to portray the Mandalorian as someone with excellent parenting skills?
I'm not saying there aren't things to nitpick. There are plenty of things to nitpick, although not noticeably more than any other piece of Star Wars content ever produced. But the above list of complaints isn't "these are cripplingly major plotholes", it's just a really long-winded snarky way of saying "I was unable to suspend my disbelief for 45 minutes." Some of us have been perfectly able to suspend our disbelief and enjoy the show, so consider that maybe that's more about you than the show. You don't have to like it! It's okay to outgrow Star Wars. I hereby give you permission to decide you're too old for it now. Go watch The Expanse and let the people who are willing to fire up their imagination enough to still like Star Wars, still like Star Wars.
posted by mstokes650 at 6:48 PM on December 31, 2019 [34 favorites]
Because, as extensively previously established in earlier parts of our shared narrative, Mando does not trust the killer robot any further than he can throw it. If he did trust it, he'd have to believe that at this point it is no longer a "killer" robot.
Why send all the troops to attack the heroes when you want the baby?
Because you don't know exactly where the baby is, and you know the heroes do.
Why not shoot the badguy standing 10 feet from the window?
The bad guy has body armor on and like 50 people aiming at the window who will shoot at you as soon as you pop your head out. Blasters are (clearly!) not very accurate, so the odds your 1 blaster gets the job done are much worse than the odds their 50 blasters get the job done.
Why give them a day to think it (what?) over?
Because it'll be less messy, with fewer casualties on your side and less risk of something going wrong (like the person who knows where the baby is accidentally dying) if they just surrender. Meanwhile you've got scout troopers on speeder bikes out looking for the baby, so it's not like you need to rush; if you just chill, maybe they actually surrender or maybe you get the baby on your own and don't need them alive anymore.
Why send in a flamethrower when you're trying to rescue the baby?
Because now you're angry and the situation has suddenly rapidly deteriorated and they have a killer droid and you have way less troops and zero chance of getting at the baby without getting inside there, so waiting around suddenly isn't as attractive an option.
(Why is the flametrooper's costume so silly, and why in a world of laser guns are flamethrowers considered scary or useful?)
Is it that much sillier than the "standard" Stormtrooper armor? or the Deathtrooper armor? Or Mandalorian armor? Or Leia's ridiculous hair buns, or Obi Wan swishing around in a brown bathrobe, or Lando's closet full of capes, or any of like 10,000 questionable fashion/design choices in Star Wars? On a practical note I imagine the red markings on the armor function as a "danger, this guy has a backpack full of highly flammable chemicals" indicator so that other Stormtroopers don't stand too close.
I feel like the show did (or would have, if not for Baby Yoda intervening) a pretty good job demonstrating exactly what a flamethrower can accomplish that a blaster cannot.
Why is the grate superduperstrong?
Superduperstrong relative to what? How flimsy are sewer grates supposed to be? You recently kick or shoot open any sewer grates on your street lately?
Why does causing your entire "creed" to die earn you a jetpack?
Two things: one, religious fanatics gonna be religious fanatics. Doing the "right thing" per your religion's "rules" is gonna be rewarded even if the results were...not great. That's why martyrdom gets people sainted, despite martyrdom typically being a poor tactical outcome. And two: who else is she gonna give it to?
Why ask the killer robot to hold the jetpack?
Why not? Damn thing's probably heavy, but the weight ain't gonna bother the droid. Plus, it shows Mando's started to trust the droid.
(Why didn't his parents take shelter themselves when there was tons of room?)
Why didn't Jack just climb on the door with Rose?
Why don't they roast in the lava heat?
Lava is inexplicably low-temperature in the Star Wars universe, and while it may be mildly uncomfortably hot to be near, it will only actually burn you if fall directly into it, as previously established by the ~15-minute lightsaber duel on a river of lava between Obi Wan and Anakin at the the end of Revenge of the Sith. Take it up with George Lucas.
Why is the machine gun able to blast through igneous rock attaching the boat but not the plaster around the grate?
Perhaps blasting the plaster around the grate would've simply collapsed the entrance to the sewer rather than opening it. Or collapsed the room they were in! Or caused blaster bolts to bounce off the metal beams underneath the plaster. I confess I am unfamiliar with Star Wars building codes and construction practices. Presumably the characters are less unfamiliar with these things than I am.
Why does one need a punting robot when the boat goes exactly as fast without it?
To start, stop, and steer. Exactly as if you were punting down a flowing (water) stream.
Why shoot that robot when they just learned empathy for robots?
Because that one appeared to be aiding and abetting the enemy, or at least not following instructions, and as a result was going to get them all killed.
Why walk in the lava when the repeated shots of rats established that the sides are dry?
If you're going to self-destruct anyways, but your legs will hold up to lava long enough to get you to your destination, why bother making an extra effort to preserve your legs?
Why use self-destruct to kill the badguys when Mando has a bunch of bombs he uses five minutes later?
Mando appears to need to get close enough to the target to physically stick the bomb to it. Stormtroopers waiting in ambush are unlikely to allow the targets they're waiting to ambush (or a killer droid) to walk up to them and stick explosives to them.
Why assume the badguy is dead and there are no reinforcements and this is a perfectly safe world to settle down in?
Are they assuming it's "perfectly safe" or are they assuming it's "as good as anywhere else"? Greef's clearly got a lot of connections and resources here that he wouldn't have if they took off to some other Outer Rim craphole, and judging from the Mando's lack of success at lying low all the earlier episodes this season, the chances of Imperial Remnants coming after them are presumably pretty similar no matter where else they go.
Why let a baby keep a string around its neck tied to a pointy choking hazard?
Do you feel this show has been making an effort to portray the Mandalorian as someone with excellent parenting skills?
I'm not saying there aren't things to nitpick. There are plenty of things to nitpick, although not noticeably more than any other piece of Star Wars content ever produced. But the above list of complaints isn't "these are cripplingly major plotholes", it's just a really long-winded snarky way of saying "I was unable to suspend my disbelief for 45 minutes." Some of us have been perfectly able to suspend our disbelief and enjoy the show, so consider that maybe that's more about you than the show. You don't have to like it! It's okay to outgrow Star Wars. I hereby give you permission to decide you're too old for it now. Go watch The Expanse and let the people who are willing to fire up their imagination enough to still like Star Wars, still like Star Wars.
posted by mstokes650 at 6:48 PM on December 31, 2019 [34 favorites]
I am totally on board with the "Why isn't Star Wars better?" sentiment being expressed here, I would love it if folks that cared about a coherent logical vision were in charge of Star Wars.
But the problem is, Star Wars has never been coherent and logical for even one second of its existence, so at this point it's probably too late. At its best, Star Wars was helmed by a man who absolutely could not leave good enough alone and is still bitter that he got outvoted on Jedi carrying "Laser Swords." The Mandalorian is all Deep Space Future Gun Action and like all the rest of Star Wars it does not hold up to intense scrutiny.
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 6:51 PM on December 31, 2019 [7 favorites]
But the problem is, Star Wars has never been coherent and logical for even one second of its existence, so at this point it's probably too late. At its best, Star Wars was helmed by a man who absolutely could not leave good enough alone and is still bitter that he got outvoted on Jedi carrying "Laser Swords." The Mandalorian is all Deep Space Future Gun Action and like all the rest of Star Wars it does not hold up to intense scrutiny.
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 6:51 PM on December 31, 2019 [7 favorites]
Hear hear Mr.. Encyclopedia. For me, Star Wars is closer to fantasy than scifi so it gets a lot of passes from me.
I like the treatment here, it kind of feels like a Star Wars flavoured 'Firefly' with even more Spaghetti.
posted by porpoise at 7:33 PM on December 31, 2019 [8 favorites]
I like the treatment here, it kind of feels like a Star Wars flavoured 'Firefly' with even more Spaghetti.
posted by porpoise at 7:33 PM on December 31, 2019 [8 favorites]
I was also bothered at the super-casual droid murder right at the culmination of the arc about empathy for robots. It was treated with zero emotional gravitas or consequence in the script.
I'm all for ignoring nit-picky inconsistencies in the name of story (who cares how the sewer systems work anyway). But stuff like that, where the show seems to forget what it's trying to say, strikes me as a bigger storytelling flaw. That can make the difference between a show that's fun to watch, and one that really leaves a lasting impression/says something worthwhile.
posted by Emily's Fist at 12:58 AM on January 1, 2020 [6 favorites]
I'm all for ignoring nit-picky inconsistencies in the name of story (who cares how the sewer systems work anyway). But stuff like that, where the show seems to forget what it's trying to say, strikes me as a bigger storytelling flaw. That can make the difference between a show that's fun to watch, and one that really leaves a lasting impression/says something worthwhile.
posted by Emily's Fist at 12:58 AM on January 1, 2020 [6 favorites]
I may be foolishly hoping for the next season to have things slightly more consistent. Given how much scrutiny this and Rise of Skywalker got by Disney corporate (and the fuckery of multiple test screeners / edits of RoS) it may have more room to breath and establish itself now that season 1 is done and has gotten a really good response.
It reminds me of the beta experience of until now secret product vs the improved in the light of genera consumption. There may be more secrets in the next season, but the entire premise (Mandalorian is doing the Wolf and Child thing, etc) isn’t secret anymore, so they can hopefully nail down a better consistency.
posted by mrzarquon at 9:33 AM on January 1, 2020
It reminds me of the beta experience of until now secret product vs the improved in the light of genera consumption. There may be more secrets in the next season, but the entire premise (Mandalorian is doing the Wolf and Child thing, etc) isn’t secret anymore, so they can hopefully nail down a better consistency.
posted by mrzarquon at 9:33 AM on January 1, 2020
Why is the grate superduperstrong?
Superduperstrong relative to what? How flimsy are sewer grates supposed to be? You recently kick or shoot open any sewer grates on your street lately?
Relative to the only other Star Wars sewer grate that springs to mind, which is quickly blasted by Princess Leia.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 9:37 AM on January 1, 2020
Superduperstrong relative to what? How flimsy are sewer grates supposed to be? You recently kick or shoot open any sewer grates on your street lately?
Relative to the only other Star Wars sewer grate that springs to mind, which is quickly blasted by Princess Leia.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 9:37 AM on January 1, 2020
I was unable to suspend my disbelief for 45 minutes."
45 minutes? Shit, dude as to SW my disbelief has been suspended for 42 YEARS.
posted by dorkydancer at 10:14 AM on January 1, 2020 [4 favorites]
45 minutes? Shit, dude as to SW my disbelief has been suspended for 42 YEARS.
posted by dorkydancer at 10:14 AM on January 1, 2020 [4 favorites]
Relative to the only other Star Wars sewer grate that springs to mind, which is quickly blasted by Princess Leia.
You must have missed the extended comic about Imperial Plumbing Safety and Standards engineer, Ma Rio, and the ensuing logistical mess that caused. They had to revise and update the grate safety standards to withstand the blaster round. You thought all that Beskar was collected by the Empire and the war with the Mandalorians was about armaments and control, but really it was because of the new IPR-77-P/b standard for all sewer grates larger than half a womprat.
posted by mrzarquon at 10:25 AM on January 1, 2020 [24 favorites]
You must have missed the extended comic about Imperial Plumbing Safety and Standards engineer, Ma Rio, and the ensuing logistical mess that caused. They had to revise and update the grate safety standards to withstand the blaster round. You thought all that Beskar was collected by the Empire and the war with the Mandalorians was about armaments and control, but really it was because of the new IPR-77-P/b standard for all sewer grates larger than half a womprat.
posted by mrzarquon at 10:25 AM on January 1, 2020 [24 favorites]
jason_steakums: Why is there a huge sewer grate in a commercial establishment where food and drinks are served?
After "why is the super-tough grate hidden behind seating," my second question was "why are these sewers so clean and dry?"
I settled on the idea that those aren't so much sewers, as they are a system of tunnels to smuggle goods between places, like that commercial establishment. There was probably a latch or lock they overlooked that would have made it really easy to open :)
For future use: Come on, baby! Do the magic hand thing.
posted by filthy light thief at 10:53 AM on January 1, 2020 [6 favorites]
After "why is the super-tough grate hidden behind seating," my second question was "why are these sewers so clean and dry?"
I settled on the idea that those aren't so much sewers, as they are a system of tunnels to smuggle goods between places, like that commercial establishment. There was probably a latch or lock they overlooked that would have made it really easy to open :)
For future use: Come on, baby! Do the magic hand thing.
posted by filthy light thief at 10:53 AM on January 1, 2020 [6 favorites]
You must have missed the extended comic about Imperial Plumbing Safety and Standards engineer, Ma Rio
I would read the hell out of this.
posted by jessamyn at 11:33 AM on January 1, 2020 [8 favorites]
I would read the hell out of this.
posted by jessamyn at 11:33 AM on January 1, 2020 [8 favorites]
There’s a five issue arc around designing wookie compatible drainage for showers.
posted by mrzarquon at 2:47 PM on January 1, 2020 [13 favorites]
posted by mrzarquon at 2:47 PM on January 1, 2020 [13 favorites]
#gratetruthers
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:49 PM on January 1, 2020 [5 favorites]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:49 PM on January 1, 2020 [5 favorites]
Chortly, you're overthinking things... this is not that kind of show.
it's just a really long-winded snarky way of saying "I was unable to suspend my disbelief for 45 minutes."
What's funny is the amount of effort apparently required to not-overthink or suspend disbelief. It seems far harder to come up with all these justifications than to merely be befuddled by them. Speaking just for myself, as I empathize with the characters my brain naturally imagines how to get out of whatever the current predicament is, and when the characters fail to do something obvious or the physical world fails to function in the usual ways, that's effortlessly baffling, and I guess I'm too lazy to make up a bunch of bespoke explanations for all the basic gaps in logic. I just want to have fun without having to fix all the stuff that professional writers should already have fixed.
But in any case, I'm not trying to convince anyone to dislike the show! I'm just sympathizing with those here who already do.
posted by chortly at 7:32 PM on January 1, 2020 [2 favorites]
it's just a really long-winded snarky way of saying "I was unable to suspend my disbelief for 45 minutes."
What's funny is the amount of effort apparently required to not-overthink or suspend disbelief. It seems far harder to come up with all these justifications than to merely be befuddled by them. Speaking just for myself, as I empathize with the characters my brain naturally imagines how to get out of whatever the current predicament is, and when the characters fail to do something obvious or the physical world fails to function in the usual ways, that's effortlessly baffling, and I guess I'm too lazy to make up a bunch of bespoke explanations for all the basic gaps in logic. I just want to have fun without having to fix all the stuff that professional writers should already have fixed.
But in any case, I'm not trying to convince anyone to dislike the show! I'm just sympathizing with those here who already do.
posted by chortly at 7:32 PM on January 1, 2020 [2 favorites]
I believe they mention that the lava smelled of sulfur. Sulfur lava which is molten sulphur with perhaps a small amount of silicates seems about right, setting aside that it probably stinks. There have been sulfur flows on earth, but I didn't find any pictures, but google molten sulfur and tell me that the look isn't right.
If I was setting up a secret imperial base, securing the sewers against easy access, seems like a smart move.
Also, per wikipedia, "Molten sulfur is sometimes still used for setting steel bolts into drilled concrete holes where high shock resistance is desired for floor-mounted equipment attachment points." Maybe the grate was secured that way.
I think people often make dumb/heroic decisions under pressure. Like if your lava raft is about to carry you into a death trap. I'm sure if the droid could have thought of a better way to handle stuff, like setting off it's detonator or whatever, it would have.
Waiting until nightfall and shooting your own soldiers still seems dumb, but maybe there was a legit reason for it.
posted by gryftir at 9:51 PM on January 1, 2020 [3 favorites]
If I was setting up a secret imperial base, securing the sewers against easy access, seems like a smart move.
Also, per wikipedia, "Molten sulfur is sometimes still used for setting steel bolts into drilled concrete holes where high shock resistance is desired for floor-mounted equipment attachment points." Maybe the grate was secured that way.
I think people often make dumb/heroic decisions under pressure. Like if your lava raft is about to carry you into a death trap. I'm sure if the droid could have thought of a better way to handle stuff, like setting off it's detonator or whatever, it would have.
Waiting until nightfall and shooting your own soldiers still seems dumb, but maybe there was a legit reason for it.
posted by gryftir at 9:51 PM on January 1, 2020 [3 favorites]
What's funny is the amount of effort apparently required to not-overthink or suspend disbelief.
It's effortless. It's opera. It's not hard sci fi, a gritty kitchen-sink drama, or a serious alternate history proposal. Things are what they represent symbolically.
When Mando lets the baby have that pendant, it represents the growth of trust between them. Earlier, Mando got annoyed at the kid for messing with a control stick, now, he's giving him something of personal significance. Mando didn't trust the kid, and now he does. That's what the story is asking you to believe in the duet at the end of the last act.
It's not a story about how real world choking concerns apply to 50 year old green space wizard babies, who also happens to regularly devour live frogs whole.
posted by StarkRoads at 12:48 AM on January 2, 2020 [31 favorites]
It's effortless. It's opera. It's not hard sci fi, a gritty kitchen-sink drama, or a serious alternate history proposal. Things are what they represent symbolically.
When Mando lets the baby have that pendant, it represents the growth of trust between them. Earlier, Mando got annoyed at the kid for messing with a control stick, now, he's giving him something of personal significance. Mando didn't trust the kid, and now he does. That's what the story is asking you to believe in the duet at the end of the last act.
It's not a story about how real world choking concerns apply to 50 year old green space wizard babies, who also happens to regularly devour live frogs whole.
posted by StarkRoads at 12:48 AM on January 2, 2020 [31 favorites]
Dumb question, but has Baby Yoda's gender be specifically mentioned? Curious...
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:51 AM on January 2, 2020
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:51 AM on January 2, 2020
A number of characters have used "he" to refer to The Child, but I think that is just their character making an assumption and not actual knowledge.
posted by Rock Steady at 8:24 AM on January 2, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by Rock Steady at 8:24 AM on January 2, 2020 [1 favorite]
I believe they mention that the lava smelled of sulfur. Sulfur lava which is molten sulphur with perhaps a small amount of silicates seems about right, setting aside that it probably stinks.
Nice find!
There were those little, furry animals scurrying around surprisingly close to the edge of the lava river, so it doesn't seem like the rivers of fire we imagine, coming from Earth.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:32 AM on January 2, 2020
Nice find!
There were those little, furry animals scurrying around surprisingly close to the edge of the lava river, so it doesn't seem like the rivers of fire we imagine, coming from Earth.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:32 AM on January 2, 2020
chortly: What's funny is the amount of effort apparently required to not-overthink or suspend disbelief.
StarkRoads: It's effortless. It's opera. It's not hard sci fi, a gritty kitchen-sink drama, or a serious alternate history proposal. Things are what they represent symbolically.
You could say the same thing about Game of Thrones, but I think that show, and the FanFare discussions around it, are a clear mark of the different limits we each have when it comes to suspending disbelief.
I think the ability for a story to survive despite plot holes and logical gaps depends on a few factors, including how engaging the over-all story and characters are (is the viewer invested in the story and characters), how much attention the viewer is paying to the content, and their knowledge of the material presented. For example, the cost and durability of black pigment was a serious sticking point for some in GoT, so to see a whole fleet of ships with black sails would just be wrong.
But for many more, the travel time of ships and by foot or horse was a sticking point. Part of the problem was that they showed the world map, which we assumed to be an accurate representation of the scale and scope of the world in the show, but then people traveled across and around the world at apparently significantly varying speeds, to the point it seemed like time-travel might be involved.
More generally, some people are closer watchers and readers, and their minds play out possible plots based on all available information (my wife, for example), while others are just along for the ride (that's me, usually). My wife will see the twists and endings a mile away, while I'm happily traveling along with the plot.
tl;dr: we all experience media differently. Some will always see the gaps in the plot, while others will hop right over them and not even notice. Let's be kind to each other, here and elsewhere.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:47 AM on January 2, 2020 [4 favorites]
StarkRoads: It's effortless. It's opera. It's not hard sci fi, a gritty kitchen-sink drama, or a serious alternate history proposal. Things are what they represent symbolically.
You could say the same thing about Game of Thrones, but I think that show, and the FanFare discussions around it, are a clear mark of the different limits we each have when it comes to suspending disbelief.
I think the ability for a story to survive despite plot holes and logical gaps depends on a few factors, including how engaging the over-all story and characters are (is the viewer invested in the story and characters), how much attention the viewer is paying to the content, and their knowledge of the material presented. For example, the cost and durability of black pigment was a serious sticking point for some in GoT, so to see a whole fleet of ships with black sails would just be wrong.
But for many more, the travel time of ships and by foot or horse was a sticking point. Part of the problem was that they showed the world map, which we assumed to be an accurate representation of the scale and scope of the world in the show, but then people traveled across and around the world at apparently significantly varying speeds, to the point it seemed like time-travel might be involved.
More generally, some people are closer watchers and readers, and their minds play out possible plots based on all available information (my wife, for example), while others are just along for the ride (that's me, usually). My wife will see the twists and endings a mile away, while I'm happily traveling along with the plot.
tl;dr: we all experience media differently. Some will always see the gaps in the plot, while others will hop right over them and not even notice. Let's be kind to each other, here and elsewhere.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:47 AM on January 2, 2020 [4 favorites]
I see a natural distinction between errors that are only understood as errors given some technical information (even if rudimentary), and errors (i.e., lack of verisimilitude) of everyday human behavior and reasoning. Speaking very generally, the latter always undermines the suspension of disbelief and should be avoided as a matter of course by a skilled writer.
There was a particular line in the penultimate episode that stood out to me as something real people almost never say but which is common in film and television. I wish I could recall what it was.
A weakness of the argument I'm making involves genre: genre is at least indifferent to realism and at most antirrealist in that genre is defined by its various storytelling conventions. These are often shortcuts. And, indeed, more generally, all narrative is unavoidably unrealistic to some degree by necessity — and what is necessary often becomes incorporated into technique.
So I recognize that these things are subjective and a matter of taste, but . . . I tend to have trouble with writing and production that strike me as lazy. Genre is inherently painting by-the-numbers, and works set in a shared world even more so, but there's some difference between what you have to do and what you can get away with doing. If you choose to lean into the latter, you're going to find that for a considerable portion of the audience, you don't get away with it. I have trouble understanding why, given adequate resources, people choose to be lazy.
I admit that I'm a bit of an outlier: given a choice, I'm almost always going to prefer increased difficulty over weakened suspension of disbelief. I'd argue that those aren't the only alternatives; but, nevertheless, I'm more forgiving of the former than the latter and I recognize that it's completely valid to have the opposite preference.
Nevertheless, I genuinely take a bit of offense at what I perceive to be laziness. I can't help but think, well, it's not as if the writer couldn't have ensured that X made sense. I do understand where people are coming from when they defend The Mandelorian and The Witcher as entertainment rightly held to a forgiving standard, but it just feels to me like people are being too forgiving, partly out of sentiment, of what could have still been popcorn comfort entertainment but just not, you know, lazy.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 9:41 AM on January 2, 2020 [6 favorites]
There was a particular line in the penultimate episode that stood out to me as something real people almost never say but which is common in film and television. I wish I could recall what it was.
A weakness of the argument I'm making involves genre: genre is at least indifferent to realism and at most antirrealist in that genre is defined by its various storytelling conventions. These are often shortcuts. And, indeed, more generally, all narrative is unavoidably unrealistic to some degree by necessity — and what is necessary often becomes incorporated into technique.
So I recognize that these things are subjective and a matter of taste, but . . . I tend to have trouble with writing and production that strike me as lazy. Genre is inherently painting by-the-numbers, and works set in a shared world even more so, but there's some difference between what you have to do and what you can get away with doing. If you choose to lean into the latter, you're going to find that for a considerable portion of the audience, you don't get away with it. I have trouble understanding why, given adequate resources, people choose to be lazy.
I admit that I'm a bit of an outlier: given a choice, I'm almost always going to prefer increased difficulty over weakened suspension of disbelief. I'd argue that those aren't the only alternatives; but, nevertheless, I'm more forgiving of the former than the latter and I recognize that it's completely valid to have the opposite preference.
Nevertheless, I genuinely take a bit of offense at what I perceive to be laziness. I can't help but think, well, it's not as if the writer couldn't have ensured that X made sense. I do understand where people are coming from when they defend The Mandelorian and The Witcher as entertainment rightly held to a forgiving standard, but it just feels to me like people are being too forgiving, partly out of sentiment, of what could have still been popcorn comfort entertainment but just not, you know, lazy.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 9:41 AM on January 2, 2020 [6 favorites]
I mean, the thing that stuck out the most to me was that when Mando plinked the cable onto the Gus's TIE, it would have straight-up ripped his arm right out of its socket. No matter how much Beskar you have, human ligaments have limits.
All the rest? The Charon/Styx thing? The dumbness of saying "Ok, I'll wait til tomorrow for you to decide what to do," the stupid sacrifice of IG-11, grate truthers, and all the rest of the complaints? I'm totally fine with. I would watch this with the sound off all day long and still enjoy just looking at it. Every bit of design work, and the massive FX budget, makes for such a visually-rich and, honestly beautiful show, and every episode suprasses 95+% of feature films. And that's not nostalgia-driven, though I acknowledge that's a big part of the appeal; it's just a really fantastic showcase of design and FX and I'm here for it.
Wait, we have to wait how long til Season 2?
posted by rp at 10:47 AM on January 2, 2020 [3 favorites]
All the rest? The Charon/Styx thing? The dumbness of saying "Ok, I'll wait til tomorrow for you to decide what to do," the stupid sacrifice of IG-11, grate truthers, and all the rest of the complaints? I'm totally fine with. I would watch this with the sound off all day long and still enjoy just looking at it. Every bit of design work, and the massive FX budget, makes for such a visually-rich and, honestly beautiful show, and every episode suprasses 95+% of feature films. And that's not nostalgia-driven, though I acknowledge that's a big part of the appeal; it's just a really fantastic showcase of design and FX and I'm here for it.
Wait, we have to wait how long til Season 2?
posted by rp at 10:47 AM on January 2, 2020 [3 favorites]
Also, Emily Swallow's delivery as the Armorer-- she's by far the most intriguing character, to me-- her delivery sounds so much like Cate Blanchette's narration in Lord of the Rings it's surely intentional. I love it.
posted by rp at 11:01 AM on January 2, 2020 [8 favorites]
posted by rp at 11:01 AM on January 2, 2020 [8 favorites]
Oh I had no idea Amara/The Darkness/God's Sister was the Armorer! Cool!
I can go along with the idea that Star Wars in general is a fantasy series, not as sci-fi as Star Trek, even though the latter is also more fantastic than sci-fi sometimes.
I really enjoyed this show, and I consider myself a "close watcher" of entertainment. I can't casually watch anything that I'm into, and I can't multitask, because I don't want to miss a single line or shot. So because of that, a lot of the complaints I've read here would take more effort to come up with if you weren't watching closely than the effort it would take to answer them if you pay any attention at all.
The little bits like the two Troopers at the beginning is what I love about the current crux of Star Wars entertainment. Like the two stormtroopers immediately turning around just as they're approaching the room in which Kylo Ren is rampaging in The Force Awakens.
posted by numaner at 1:26 PM on January 2, 2020 [4 favorites]
I can go along with the idea that Star Wars in general is a fantasy series, not as sci-fi as Star Trek, even though the latter is also more fantastic than sci-fi sometimes.
I really enjoyed this show, and I consider myself a "close watcher" of entertainment. I can't casually watch anything that I'm into, and I can't multitask, because I don't want to miss a single line or shot. So because of that, a lot of the complaints I've read here would take more effort to come up with if you weren't watching closely than the effort it would take to answer them if you pay any attention at all.
The little bits like the two Troopers at the beginning is what I love about the current crux of Star Wars entertainment. Like the two stormtroopers immediately turning around just as they're approaching the room in which Kylo Ren is rampaging in The Force Awakens.
posted by numaner at 1:26 PM on January 2, 2020 [4 favorites]
And more, re the Armorer: she's like this ultimate badass. The Stormtrooper armor fragments flying through the frame cement that. The hammer fight, in all its Athenian glory.
Also, I LOVE the names that the Mandalorians give to their weapons/equipment. Whistling Birds. Rising Phoenix. That stuff just tickles all my craftsmanship nerves.
posted by rp at 2:10 PM on January 2, 2020 [13 favorites]
Also, I LOVE the names that the Mandalorians give to their weapons/equipment. Whistling Birds. Rising Phoenix. That stuff just tickles all my craftsmanship nerves.
posted by rp at 2:10 PM on January 2, 2020 [13 favorites]
Okay, yes, there are some things that can be nitpicked a bit. But any show that gives me a bunch of stormtroopers surrounding a kneeling person who then FUCKING BLACKSMITHS THE ABSOLUTE FUCK OUT OF THEM TO DEATH has earned quite a bit of leeway from me.
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 2:18 PM on January 2, 2020 [21 favorites]
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 2:18 PM on January 2, 2020 [21 favorites]
rp, yes! The poetic names for their gadgets are lovely.
posted by potrzebie at 2:23 PM on January 2, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by potrzebie at 2:23 PM on January 2, 2020 [4 favorites]
@ potrzebie: The thing that makes this so great for me is that aspect of craftsmanship.
"I made this for you. Use it well. Don't fuck it up."
posted by rp at 2:34 PM on January 2, 2020 [5 favorites]
"I made this for you. Use it well. Don't fuck it up."
posted by rp at 2:34 PM on January 2, 2020 [5 favorites]
But that's sort of what the whole show is, no?
posted by rp at 2:51 PM on January 2, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by rp at 2:51 PM on January 2, 2020 [1 favorite]
Fair point. If they went to a planet called Chicago it would be weird.
posted by snofoam at 5:09 PM on January 2, 2020 [5 favorites]
posted by snofoam at 5:09 PM on January 2, 2020 [5 favorites]
Mainly because it’s borrowed from an Earthly mythology so it’s like Star Wars action figures using GI Joe guns.
Don’t knock my childhood
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:09 PM on January 2, 2020 [16 favorites]
Don’t knock my childhood
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:09 PM on January 2, 2020 [16 favorites]
For example, the cost and durability of black pigment was a serious sticking point for some in GoT, so to see a whole fleet of ships with black sails would just be wrong.
It's possible to pat yourself a bit for knowing something the author omitted, intentionally or otherwise. Like, scenes involving those now-infamous 'forensic photo enhancement' systems, or using defibrillators for something besides correcting a fibrillation, or people yelling 'stat!' a lot in the ER. Star Wars, by creating a highly fantastical environment, actively discourages this kind of trainspotting from functioning well. The mise en scène is there to convince you that its world exists, to the extent that it's useful for telling a broad, mythical kind of story.
tl;dr: we all experience media differently. Some will always see the gaps in the plot, while others will hop right over them and not even notice.
Honestly I don't see the plot in this episode as especially holey, taken on its own terms of operatic Great Deeds. The character logic seems pretty right, even if there's a bit of cartoon lava. As with many things, this is true. From a certain point of view.
Let's be kind to each other, here and elsewhere.
Yeah.
posted by StarkRoads at 12:31 AM on January 3, 2020 [3 favorites]
It's possible to pat yourself a bit for knowing something the author omitted, intentionally or otherwise. Like, scenes involving those now-infamous 'forensic photo enhancement' systems, or using defibrillators for something besides correcting a fibrillation, or people yelling 'stat!' a lot in the ER. Star Wars, by creating a highly fantastical environment, actively discourages this kind of trainspotting from functioning well. The mise en scène is there to convince you that its world exists, to the extent that it's useful for telling a broad, mythical kind of story.
tl;dr: we all experience media differently. Some will always see the gaps in the plot, while others will hop right over them and not even notice.
Honestly I don't see the plot in this episode as especially holey, taken on its own terms of operatic Great Deeds. The character logic seems pretty right, even if there's a bit of cartoon lava. As with many things, this is true. From a certain point of view.
Let's be kind to each other, here and elsewhere.
Yeah.
posted by StarkRoads at 12:31 AM on January 3, 2020 [3 favorites]
Actually, the Phoenix name bothered me most of all the ways you could logically dissect this. Mainly because it’s borrowed from an Earthly mythology so it’s like Star Wars action figures using GI Joe guns.
If it makes you feel any better, there have been Krayt dragons(but no Crait dragons) since the beginning
posted by StarkRoads at 12:33 AM on January 3, 2020
If it makes you feel any better, there have been Krayt dragons(but no Crait dragons) since the beginning
posted by StarkRoads at 12:33 AM on January 3, 2020
There's been some discussion overall about this show as fan service and I wanted to add my two cents.
When I was a kid my parents didn't have cable and we lived in an area with only the big four channels available via antenna (ABC, CBS, NBC, and PBS) so I didn't get a lot of movie-watching done. One of the few movies we had on VHS was Return of the Jedi and you know how kids don't mind watching the same thing over and over so I'd say I know that one better than any of the others.
When C3PO first walks up to Jabba's palace a small portal in the massive metal door opens and a robotic eyeball-looking thing on a stick pops out. And this is from memory, and I'm not going to look it up because I'm sure someone out there has the actual translation but whatever, anyway:
all of which is to say: in episode 2 when the Mandalorian was returning to hand over The Child and he walked up to a door and an the eyeball popped out and said "Achupaprinkee" I turned to my wife and said, "HE SAID ACHUPAPRINKEE!" and I don't think scientists have an instrument that could measure how little she cared. But for me? That was the only fan service that mattered in this entire show, and it mattered a lot.
posted by komara at 9:39 AM on January 3, 2020 [33 favorites]
When I was a kid my parents didn't have cable and we lived in an area with only the big four channels available via antenna (ABC, CBS, NBC, and PBS) so I didn't get a lot of movie-watching done. One of the few movies we had on VHS was Return of the Jedi and you know how kids don't mind watching the same thing over and over so I'd say I know that one better than any of the others.
When C3PO first walks up to Jabba's palace a small portal in the massive metal door opens and a robotic eyeball-looking thing on a stick pops out. And this is from memory, and I'm not going to look it up because I'm sure someone out there has the actual translation but whatever, anyway:
eyeball: "Ee che che chu cuu-tah."I don't know why that exchange caught my attention when I was a kid but I would definitely say those lines along with the characters.
C3PO: "Goodness gracious me!"
eyeball: "Ankah. Achupaprinkee."
all of which is to say: in episode 2 when the Mandalorian was returning to hand over The Child and he walked up to a door and an the eyeball popped out and said "Achupaprinkee" I turned to my wife and said, "HE SAID ACHUPAPRINKEE!" and I don't think scientists have an instrument that could measure how little she cared. But for me? That was the only fan service that mattered in this entire show, and it mattered a lot.
posted by komara at 9:39 AM on January 3, 2020 [33 favorites]
okay fine i went and looked it up and apparently it's "H'chu apenkee" [*] but i stand by what my 12-year-old self heard
posted by komara at 9:47 AM on January 3, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by komara at 9:47 AM on January 3, 2020 [4 favorites]
This Mando version of Big Iron is my new favorite thing and now I need a Mandalorian version of the entire Gunfighter Ballads and Trail Songs album.
posted by jason_steakums at 11:59 AM on January 3, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by jason_steakums at 11:59 AM on January 3, 2020 [2 favorites]
Komara, I noticed that too!
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 5:29 PM on January 3, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 5:29 PM on January 3, 2020 [3 favorites]
jabba wahneencheeko
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 6:07 PM on January 3, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 6:07 PM on January 3, 2020 [1 favorite]
There are other instances of phoenix imagery (the rebellion insignia being the best known) and naming (Phoenix squadron, for instance) in the GFFA; I think at this point it's definitely fair game.
posted by potrzebie at 6:53 PM on January 3, 2020
posted by potrzebie at 6:53 PM on January 3, 2020
I mean in TESB Han tells a rebel soldier "I'll see you in hell!" which is a theological conundrum many nerds have already picked over. The easiest explanation is there's a planet somewhere in Star Wars that has a creature called a Phoenix that presumably has similarities to the mythological phoenix. Seems way simpler than trying to explain the existence of hell in a world without any kind of Abrahamic religion.
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 7:44 PM on January 3, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 7:44 PM on January 3, 2020 [2 favorites]
Maybe they called it Rising Phoenix because Rising Womp Rat didn't sound as cool.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 10:26 PM on January 3, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by ActingTheGoat at 10:26 PM on January 3, 2020 [3 favorites]
I'm almost always going to prefer increased difficulty over weakened suspension of disbelief.
"Stop the movie! Stop the movie! Explosions don't go "Boom" in a vacuum!"
Seriously? The science in THIS episode is the one people get hung up on? Not sound in space? Not spaceships banking like airplanes? Not giant space worms? Not FTL travel? Not a full separate fundamental force that bonds the galaxies together and that a Muppet can channel?
Not all that but sewer gratings? Freaking SEWER GRATINGS is the point that violates suspension of disbelief?
I'm sorry, but this conversation has violated MY suspension of disbelief. As in I cannot take these complaints seriously at all.
But hey, if we're going to demand sci-fi that doesn't violate plausibility, then I think we're going to have to pretty much limit ourselves to Planetes and Rocket Girls. Because pretty much everything else, including The Expanse and Watchmen is fantasy that's only different from the Mandalorian in presentation, not kind.
posted by happyroach at 11:51 PM on January 3, 2020 [12 favorites]
"Stop the movie! Stop the movie! Explosions don't go "Boom" in a vacuum!"
Seriously? The science in THIS episode is the one people get hung up on? Not sound in space? Not spaceships banking like airplanes? Not giant space worms? Not FTL travel? Not a full separate fundamental force that bonds the galaxies together and that a Muppet can channel?
Not all that but sewer gratings? Freaking SEWER GRATINGS is the point that violates suspension of disbelief?
I'm sorry, but this conversation has violated MY suspension of disbelief. As in I cannot take these complaints seriously at all.
But hey, if we're going to demand sci-fi that doesn't violate plausibility, then I think we're going to have to pretty much limit ourselves to Planetes and Rocket Girls. Because pretty much everything else, including The Expanse and Watchmen is fantasy that's only different from the Mandalorian in presentation, not kind.
posted by happyroach at 11:51 PM on January 3, 2020 [12 favorites]
"Seriously? The science in THIS episode is the one people get hung up on?"
You quoted me and I assume you're directing the question at me, so I'll clarify that my answer to your question is "no". I was probably not clear enough on that point: I began my comment by making a distinction between technical quibbles and "everyday human behavior" quibbles.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 3:29 AM on January 4, 2020 [1 favorite]
You quoted me and I assume you're directing the question at me, so I'll clarify that my answer to your question is "no". I was probably not clear enough on that point: I began my comment by making a distinction between technical quibbles and "everyday human behavior" quibbles.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 3:29 AM on January 4, 2020 [1 favorite]
I mean in TESB Han tells a rebel soldier "I'll see you in hell!" which is a theological conundrum many nerds have already picked over.
Yeah, this one was picked up on by my mom when we were watching ESB on VHS in the 90s. She was def not a nerd. There are so few of these kind of references in the films that they can stand out.
posted by StarkRoads at 9:42 AM on January 4, 2020
Yeah, this one was picked up on by my mom when we were watching ESB on VHS in the 90s. She was def not a nerd. There are so few of these kind of references in the films that they can stand out.
posted by StarkRoads at 9:42 AM on January 4, 2020
Planetes violated my suspension of disbelief on a human behavior level, every episode was 'Main Character Behaves Inapporpriately, Is Rewarded'
posted by bq at 6:06 PM on January 4, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by bq at 6:06 PM on January 4, 2020 [1 favorite]
Tough crowd here!
I made my peace with the idea The Mandalorian wasn't going to be great TV around episode 3 or so. It's middlebrow entertainment, very expensively made, and I'm fine with that.
What I liked best about the last two episodes is the show finally started establishing its own Star Wars mythology. The previous episodes were way too much imitation of classic westerns and samurai movies, including the lowpoint of episode 4, The Two Samurai. The final two parter instead was steeped in Star Wars lore. Mandalorian history! Jedi vaguely known! Imperial troops in all their hilariously coordinating outfits! Droids with personalities! Ridiculous standoffs! Some bits didn't feel so Star Warsy, like the inexplicable River Styx imagery, but mostly it just felt like it was finally being the thing it is rather than imitating its historical sources. Helped a lot to have other characters in the episode too, I continue to worry about the longevity of the adventures of a talking bucket and his silent puppet pal.
Question for MeFi parents: did anyone watch this with age-appropriate kids? One thing frequently said about the last 6 Star Wars films is that grumpy middle aged people like me didn't like them because they weren't as great as the original trilogy was when we were kids. But today's kids, the ones the right age now, seem to love them. I mean my kid's 6 year old is bonkers for Jar Jar, go figure. Did kids watch this TV show? Did they like it?
posted by Nelson at 8:03 AM on January 5, 2020 [3 favorites]
I made my peace with the idea The Mandalorian wasn't going to be great TV around episode 3 or so. It's middlebrow entertainment, very expensively made, and I'm fine with that.
What I liked best about the last two episodes is the show finally started establishing its own Star Wars mythology. The previous episodes were way too much imitation of classic westerns and samurai movies, including the lowpoint of episode 4, The Two Samurai. The final two parter instead was steeped in Star Wars lore. Mandalorian history! Jedi vaguely known! Imperial troops in all their hilariously coordinating outfits! Droids with personalities! Ridiculous standoffs! Some bits didn't feel so Star Warsy, like the inexplicable River Styx imagery, but mostly it just felt like it was finally being the thing it is rather than imitating its historical sources. Helped a lot to have other characters in the episode too, I continue to worry about the longevity of the adventures of a talking bucket and his silent puppet pal.
Question for MeFi parents: did anyone watch this with age-appropriate kids? One thing frequently said about the last 6 Star Wars films is that grumpy middle aged people like me didn't like them because they weren't as great as the original trilogy was when we were kids. But today's kids, the ones the right age now, seem to love them. I mean my kid's 6 year old is bonkers for Jar Jar, go figure. Did kids watch this TV show? Did they like it?
posted by Nelson at 8:03 AM on January 5, 2020 [3 favorites]
I recently showed my kids, age 7 and 9, the OT and the latest 3 movies. Mandalorian still seems too violent for them.
posted by bq at 10:48 AM on January 5, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by bq at 10:48 AM on January 5, 2020 [1 favorite]
> Did kids watch this TV show? Did they like it?
My teens love it.
posted by The corpse in the library at 11:03 AM on January 5, 2020 [1 favorite]
My teens love it.
posted by The corpse in the library at 11:03 AM on January 5, 2020 [1 favorite]
Gotta admit I'm surprised that Kuiil stayed dead. I was fully expecting some bs about Ugnaughts having a healing factor or two hearts or something, but dope, dead he has remained.
Ditto for IG-11, though there's still a chance it's around, what with being a droid and all.Staying dead would be best, because taking a child into a gunfight isn't the greatest example of nursing skills.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 2:47 PM on January 5, 2020 [1 favorite]
Ditto for IG-11, though there's still a chance it's around, what with being a droid and all.Staying dead would be best, because taking a child into a gunfight isn't the greatest example of nursing skills.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 2:47 PM on January 5, 2020 [1 favorite]
My 8 year old son enjoyed Mandalorian.
He likes the original trilogy fine, so he probably enjoys the “OT” feel, and the action adventure nature of the show is appealing to him.
He has no interest in seeing Rise of Skywalker. I think he finds all of the Jedi seriousness dull.
posted by Fleebnork at 3:39 PM on January 5, 2020
He likes the original trilogy fine, so he probably enjoys the “OT” feel, and the action adventure nature of the show is appealing to him.
He has no interest in seeing Rise of Skywalker. I think he finds all of the Jedi seriousness dull.
posted by Fleebnork at 3:39 PM on January 5, 2020
Our own cultural canon:
1) Beanplating a kids show
2) Inextricable demands for a high brow show from a universe that has barely ever hit middlebrow going on 45 years now
An attempt at a high brow / prestige star wars could be interesting though, especially if they went for a watchmen style critique of what this 9th circle of hell galaxy would actually be like and feel like to live in, when what we've been shown instead is decades of galaxy wide genocide and mass murder by space priests treated with a cotton candy flavored PG rating. Rogue one went there a little bit, at least.
This show was pitch perfect for a star wars series. Baby Yoda is a salve for our fucked world, Carl Weathers is great (and clearly loved every second), Nick Nolte was great, Gina Carano is great. None of the swiss cheese plot holes bothered me - Mando's choices are so inexplicably bad in spots there is no way this person would have made it to adulthood as a bounty hunter, of all things. I don't know where you'd go in TV or movies for tight plotting - even breaking bad has a lot of swiss cheese. I loved the throwback to episodic TV from the 80s, and 90s, and I even weirdly enjoyed some of the wooden acting from the non-recurring cast, probably for similar nostalgic reasons.
I hosted a binge watch party with some friends last night - half had seen the series, half had not. I had so much fun watching the newbies just die while fawning over the baby yohdz and freak out at his constant peril.
posted by MillMan at 8:57 PM on January 5, 2020 [6 favorites]
1) Beanplating a kids show
2) Inextricable demands for a high brow show from a universe that has barely ever hit middlebrow going on 45 years now
An attempt at a high brow / prestige star wars could be interesting though, especially if they went for a watchmen style critique of what this 9th circle of hell galaxy would actually be like and feel like to live in, when what we've been shown instead is decades of galaxy wide genocide and mass murder by space priests treated with a cotton candy flavored PG rating. Rogue one went there a little bit, at least.
This show was pitch perfect for a star wars series. Baby Yoda is a salve for our fucked world, Carl Weathers is great (and clearly loved every second), Nick Nolte was great, Gina Carano is great. None of the swiss cheese plot holes bothered me - Mando's choices are so inexplicably bad in spots there is no way this person would have made it to adulthood as a bounty hunter, of all things. I don't know where you'd go in TV or movies for tight plotting - even breaking bad has a lot of swiss cheese. I loved the throwback to episodic TV from the 80s, and 90s, and I even weirdly enjoyed some of the wooden acting from the non-recurring cast, probably for similar nostalgic reasons.
I hosted a binge watch party with some friends last night - half had seen the series, half had not. I had so much fun watching the newbies just die while fawning over the baby yohdz and freak out at his constant peril.
posted by MillMan at 8:57 PM on January 5, 2020 [6 favorites]
my 12yo son loves the Mandalorian - he's been the best part of seeing the last trilogy (i wouldn't have seen them otherwise despite growing up on Star Wars because i realized a while ago that what made SW great is that I saw the original movies between the ages of 5 and 11)
also fwiw, the machette order worked perfectly - after Empire he was all curious about Darth Vader - oh ? well let's watch eps 2&3 then - to this day, he's still never seen Phantom Menace (didn't even know it existed for many years)
posted by kokaku at 2:43 AM on January 6, 2020 [3 favorites]
also fwiw, the machette order worked perfectly - after Empire he was all curious about Darth Vader - oh ? well let's watch eps 2&3 then - to this day, he's still never seen Phantom Menace (didn't even know it existed for many years)
posted by kokaku at 2:43 AM on January 6, 2020 [3 favorites]
I've been telling my child (currently 5)bed time stories about a bear called Luke who grows up on a farm and meets some droids* etc etc. Or on occasion about a trade dispute between some bears on a planet called Naboo ** and the Galatic Trade Federation.
They're gonna be super confused when they eventually see Star Wars.***
*Sometimes it is about a society of bears ruled by the Padishah Emperor Shadaam IV and the complex tripod of powers and responsibilities between the Emperor Bear, the Laandstrad(of bears) and the Bear spacing guild.
**I am generally chastised for not putting enough thought into the name of this planet.
***And possibly end up with an intuitive understanding of the politics of Dune, when they finally read that.
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 2:58 AM on January 6, 2020 [6 favorites]
They're gonna be super confused when they eventually see Star Wars.***
*Sometimes it is about a society of bears ruled by the Padishah Emperor Shadaam IV and the complex tripod of powers and responsibilities between the Emperor Bear, the Laandstrad(of bears) and the Bear spacing guild.
**I am generally chastised for not putting enough thought into the name of this planet.
***And possibly end up with an intuitive understanding of the politics of Dune, when they finally read that.
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 2:58 AM on January 6, 2020 [6 favorites]
No Bear-ne Gesserit?
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 5:39 AM on January 6, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 5:39 AM on January 6, 2020 [3 favorites]
Dumb question, but has Baby Yoda's gender be specifically mentioned? Curious...
Even more, just where is and what happened to Momma Yoda? Or was Yoda actually a momma jedi?
posted by sammyo at 7:54 AM on January 6, 2020
Even more, just where is and what happened to Momma Yoda? Or was Yoda actually a momma jedi?
posted by sammyo at 7:54 AM on January 6, 2020
No Bear-ne Gesserit?
There was indeed both the Beary Gesserit and the Beary Tleilax.
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 8:12 AM on January 6, 2020 [3 favorites]
There was indeed both the Beary Gesserit and the Beary Tleilax.
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 8:12 AM on January 6, 2020 [3 favorites]
For those looking for alcoholic drinks for Mandalorian viewing, "This is the way" was brought to my attention by my girlfriend. Looks a little like a Redwood cocktail meets Boulevardier.
posted by mrzarquon at 2:55 PM on January 6, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by mrzarquon at 2:55 PM on January 6, 2020 [2 favorites]
the Ursarian Jihad?
posted by kokaku at 2:44 PM on January 7, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by kokaku at 2:44 PM on January 7, 2020 [2 favorites]
the Phoenix name bothered me most of all the ways you could logically dissect this. Mainly because it’s borrowed from an Earthly mythology
I mean, in universe its a long time before Earth culture, so maybe the Earth phoenix is a distant memory of the myth (or actual creature?) from the Star Wars galaxy.
(Same applies to Hell, I guess)
[A different famous 2000s scifi show used this concept to explain that sort of thing, after all]
posted by thefoxgod at 3:33 PM on January 7, 2020 [2 favorites]
I mean, in universe its a long time before Earth culture, so maybe the Earth phoenix is a distant memory of the myth (or actual creature?) from the Star Wars galaxy.
(Same applies to Hell, I guess)
[A different famous 2000s scifi show used this concept to explain that sort of thing, after all]
posted by thefoxgod at 3:33 PM on January 7, 2020 [2 favorites]
I agree that there were a lot of questionable plot choices in this episode, but the only one that really bugged me is when they are all panicking about a handful of stormtroopers at the entrance. We've seen IG-11 rip through more than that just on his own, and these are even regular stormtroopers, none of the specials, which they had an entire opening section about how bad shots they are! Sure, they mumbled something about being low on ammo earlier, but they seemed to have plenty to blast away at the Moff's fighter. It undermined the emotional impact of IG-11 sacrificing itself, along with another example of Star Wars' weird incoherency about droids and droid rights, when Cara whacked the head off of the poor ferry droid.
But it was satisfying on an emotional level (a clan of two!) and playing with the cool Star Wars toys level, so I enjoyed it.
posted by tavella at 11:53 AM on January 11, 2020 [2 favorites]
But it was satisfying on an emotional level (a clan of two!) and playing with the cool Star Wars toys level, so I enjoyed it.
posted by tavella at 11:53 AM on January 11, 2020 [2 favorites]
A fan-made spaghetti western trailer for The Mandalorian, via Jon Favreau.
posted by Pronoiac at 4:30 PM on January 12, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by Pronoiac at 4:30 PM on January 12, 2020 [3 favorites]
This whole show has been really droidist in its attitude. Casual droid murders all over the place, when it was established as early as the first Star Wars movie that droids are sentient and have their own feelings and desires. And this show really does humanize its droids, right before graphically killing them. It’s off putting and unnecessary. Like in the prison episode where Mando kills a bunch of soldier droids by doing things like ripping them apart and beheading them. What’s wrong with the old school approach of having them get knocked over by laser blasts but not visibly mutilated? Even though they’re “just droids”, it seems out of place for a Disney show. And poor IG-11. It was the most interesting character in the show.
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 11:24 PM on January 14, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 11:24 PM on January 14, 2020 [3 favorites]
To be fair, Mando doesn't have a problem with killing in general - the person he bisected in the cantina door in the first episode, the jawas, etc - it's not just droids.
I hope this show gives creators some freedom to explore the Star Wars universe in a way that is apparently not going to be tolerated in the films (at least, the main saga films), and I really hope that someone takes up the fascinating concepts of "droid and clone civil rights" and runs with them. There was a little of that in Phoebe Waller-Bridge's character L3-37 in Solo, maybe she is interested in doing a series?
posted by Rock Steady at 8:09 AM on January 15, 2020 [1 favorite]
I hope this show gives creators some freedom to explore the Star Wars universe in a way that is apparently not going to be tolerated in the films (at least, the main saga films), and I really hope that someone takes up the fascinating concepts of "droid and clone civil rights" and runs with them. There was a little of that in Phoebe Waller-Bridge's character L3-37 in Solo, maybe she is interested in doing a series?
posted by Rock Steady at 8:09 AM on January 15, 2020 [1 favorite]
Oh I'd love to see a Marxist exploration of droids in Star Wars. Or really anything thoughtful. Mando's hatred for droids seems like a good place to start, although killing IG-11 sure put a stop to that whole storyline.
My head-cannon is that the droids think they are sentient, but are in fact not. The L3-37 story in Solo really made me angry, the way they turned her liberation movement into a grim joke. This critical article explicates what bugged me in the movie.
posted by Nelson at 9:43 AM on January 15, 2020 [4 favorites]
My head-cannon is that the droids think they are sentient, but are in fact not. The L3-37 story in Solo really made me angry, the way they turned her liberation movement into a grim joke. This critical article explicates what bugged me in the movie.
posted by Nelson at 9:43 AM on January 15, 2020 [4 favorites]
As a data point, droids are a playable character class in the Star Wars role playing games.
posted by bq at 8:37 AM on January 16, 2020
posted by bq at 8:37 AM on January 16, 2020
Jon Favreau tweets a photo from the set of series two.
posted by rory at 1:49 AM on January 17, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by rory at 1:49 AM on January 17, 2020 [2 favorites]
I've been telling my child (currently 5)bed time stories about a bear called Luke who grows up on a farm and meets some droids* etc etc. Or on occasion about a trade dispute between some bears on a planet called Naboo ** and the Galatic Trade Federation.
They're gonna be super confused when they eventually see Star Wars.***
This reminds of the first time my daughters saw "The Princess Bride" and they clocked out that the fantastic bedtime story that lasted many weeks was in fact not mine, but William Goldman's. At which point I did my best Peter Falk "As You Wish"
posted by ewan at 5:04 AM on January 23, 2020 [1 favorite]
They're gonna be super confused when they eventually see Star Wars.***
This reminds of the first time my daughters saw "The Princess Bride" and they clocked out that the fantastic bedtime story that lasted many weeks was in fact not mine, but William Goldman's. At which point I did my best Peter Falk "As You Wish"
posted by ewan at 5:04 AM on January 23, 2020 [1 favorite]
OK, so no-one is gonna note that Taikia Waititi directed this episode and starred in it as IG-11, who was nursed back to health by an Ugnaut who used to work for the empire as a super-scientist, and was no doubt on hand for Han's carbonite adventure. He died a hero in the saddle. Portrayed by Nick Nolte.
That happened.
The casting for this is insane. Richard Ayode and Clancy Brown were badguys on the same team, for chrissake!
As for the pacing, I didn't see too many problems with it, except when Moff says "you have until nightfall" for no discernable reason. He had what, a few hundred Stormtroopers and a dozen or so actually useful Stormtroopers?
They have a criminal Alliance Shock-Trooper who may or may not be a genetically engineered weapon, with a machine-blaster she knows how to use, and oh, yeah, a senior member of the Bounty Hunter's Guild who has demonstrated he knows his way around personal blasters, and the most famous and fearless Mandalorian left alive.
I'd wait to nightfall, hoping they'd come around, too.
Also, Pedro has the effortless, hapless charisma Harrison Ford coming out of carbonite does when at his weakest with IG-11. We shouldn't be seeing this character like this, but it's genuine, and intimate. It also explains why he does not want to follow IG-11's plan. He was vulnerable and weak and IG-11 made him whole within the creed.
In conclusion, we saw a Mandalorian take on a TIE-fighter and win.
so good
posted by Slap*Happy at 9:39 PM on February 3, 2020 [4 favorites]
That happened.
The casting for this is insane. Richard Ayode and Clancy Brown were badguys on the same team, for chrissake!
As for the pacing, I didn't see too many problems with it, except when Moff says "you have until nightfall" for no discernable reason. He had what, a few hundred Stormtroopers and a dozen or so actually useful Stormtroopers?
They have a criminal Alliance Shock-Trooper who may or may not be a genetically engineered weapon, with a machine-blaster she knows how to use, and oh, yeah, a senior member of the Bounty Hunter's Guild who has demonstrated he knows his way around personal blasters, and the most famous and fearless Mandalorian left alive.
I'd wait to nightfall, hoping they'd come around, too.
Also, Pedro has the effortless, hapless charisma Harrison Ford coming out of carbonite does when at his weakest with IG-11. We shouldn't be seeing this character like this, but it's genuine, and intimate. It also explains why he does not want to follow IG-11's plan. He was vulnerable and weak and IG-11 made him whole within the creed.
In conclusion, we saw a Mandalorian take on a TIE-fighter and win.
so good
posted by Slap*Happy at 9:39 PM on February 3, 2020 [4 favorites]
As a data point, droids are a playable character class in the Star Wars role playing games.
Bold of you to assume TTRPG players don't also have simulated sentience with no free will.
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 9:02 AM on February 4, 2020 [1 favorite]
Bold of you to assume TTRPG players don't also have simulated sentience with no free will.
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 9:02 AM on February 4, 2020 [1 favorite]
I admit it begs the question.
posted by bq at 10:59 AM on February 4, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by bq at 10:59 AM on February 4, 2020 [1 favorite]
It just ocurred to me that Dental Droids and Barber Droids are a thing on old Mandalor.
posted by Slap*Happy at 6:56 PM on February 4, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by Slap*Happy at 6:56 PM on February 4, 2020 [2 favorites]
> It just ocurred to me that Dental Droids and Barber Droids are a thing on old Mandalor.
This explains Mando's issues with droids. A lot of kids have issues with dentists. Now imagine a Droid Dentist induced phobia.
posted by mrzarquon at 2:07 PM on February 5, 2020 [1 favorite]
This explains Mando's issues with droids. A lot of kids have issues with dentists. Now imagine a Droid Dentist induced phobia.
posted by mrzarquon at 2:07 PM on February 5, 2020 [1 favorite]
I am so stoked about learning this filming stuff for the Mandalorian. I wondered how they nailed it so solid.
posted by tilde at 6:09 PM on February 25, 2020
posted by tilde at 6:09 PM on February 25, 2020
Yeah that real-time rendered background on a giant screen is wild.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 2:11 AM on February 26, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by EndsOfInvention at 2:11 AM on February 26, 2020 [1 favorite]
Actually, the Phoenix name bothered me most of all the ways you could logically dissect this.
Do you think these characters are supposed to be speaking English? Why would you assume everything gets translated except for names of animals?
Tolkien would have a whole paragraph in the appendix about why "Phoenix" best captures the connotations of the name the Elves have for that bird which...
posted by straight at 4:38 PM on June 26, 2020 [1 favorite]
Do you think these characters are supposed to be speaking English? Why would you assume everything gets translated except for names of animals?
Tolkien would have a whole paragraph in the appendix about why "Phoenix" best captures the connotations of the name the Elves have for that bird which...
posted by straight at 4:38 PM on June 26, 2020 [1 favorite]
Baby Yoda getting smacked and then full-on punched by the stormtroopers was definitely not something I ever wanted or needed to see.
Who had "battering an adorable toddler" on their Bingo card of Stuff Disney Will Be Fine With In Their New Star Wars Show?
posted by straight at 4:46 PM on June 26, 2020
Who had "battering an adorable toddler" on their Bingo card of Stuff Disney Will Be Fine With In Their New Star Wars Show?
posted by straight at 4:46 PM on June 26, 2020
The show was really uneven... A bunch of really cool things and bright points, and also whooooole lot of meh. I LOVED the storm trooper discussion at the start of this episode, the armorer kicking ass, the jetpack-vs-tie fighter battle. Totally agree with the sentiment that this is a mix of video game narrative and playing with crazy toys; it's ok for what it is.
(Though I, too, said 'qua?' after the immediately preceeding warning that he'd need LOTS of practice before using the jetpack. Similar for Gina riding the horse-alien with no effort after the giant-deal training montage in the first episode. Things are hard when it's convenient for the narrative, and easy when they're convenient for the narrative, I guess.)
The soundtrack was also really uneven. I loved the recorder theme and drums, the bits where they were making an actually-new soundtrack that caught the flavor of this space western. But the parts where it transitioned into orchestration were often gratingly terrible. And there were a lot of scenes backed by just really lazy sounding composition. (but I'm a bit of a nerd for sound design.) They made a good and interesting decision to deviate from the usual Star Wars sound for the theme and then should have just stuck to their proverbial guns afterwards; instead it's an overplayed short loop of something cool, and a whole lot of mush.
The holodeck filming is INCREDIBLY cool. Looking forward to what it unlocks in the future!
posted by kaibutsu at 10:27 AM on August 13, 2020 [1 favorite]
(Though I, too, said 'qua?' after the immediately preceeding warning that he'd need LOTS of practice before using the jetpack. Similar for Gina riding the horse-alien with no effort after the giant-deal training montage in the first episode. Things are hard when it's convenient for the narrative, and easy when they're convenient for the narrative, I guess.)
The soundtrack was also really uneven. I loved the recorder theme and drums, the bits where they were making an actually-new soundtrack that caught the flavor of this space western. But the parts where it transitioned into orchestration were often gratingly terrible. And there were a lot of scenes backed by just really lazy sounding composition. (but I'm a bit of a nerd for sound design.) They made a good and interesting decision to deviate from the usual Star Wars sound for the theme and then should have just stuck to their proverbial guns afterwards; instead it's an overplayed short loop of something cool, and a whole lot of mush.
The holodeck filming is INCREDIBLY cool. Looking forward to what it unlocks in the future!
posted by kaibutsu at 10:27 AM on August 13, 2020 [1 favorite]
Entertainment Weekly: Mandalorian S2 first look.
Is this our first official confirmation of who Rosario Dawson and Katee Sakoff are playing? (Not that there was any real doubt).
posted by 1970s Antihero at 9:49 AM on September 8, 2020 [1 favorite]
Is this our first official confirmation of who Rosario Dawson and Katee Sakoff are playing? (Not that there was any real doubt).
posted by 1970s Antihero at 9:49 AM on September 8, 2020 [1 favorite]
Is this our first official confirmation of who Rosario Dawson and Katee Sakoff are playing? (Not that there was any real doubt).
It seems like it's only saying those actors were rumoured to be in the show?
posted by EndsOfInvention at 2:30 PM on September 8, 2020
It seems like it's only saying those actors were rumoured to be in the show?
While Disney has not confirmed any new cast members or their characters, there's a rogue's gallery of actors who seem optimized for a Comic-Con panel reportedly coming on board:
posted by EndsOfInvention at 2:30 PM on September 8, 2020
The season two trailer is up.
posted by Parasite Unseen at 11:19 AM on September 15, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by Parasite Unseen at 11:19 AM on September 15, 2020 [1 favorite]
Cool! Now, how is National Geographic involved in all of this?
posted by porpoise at 1:10 PM on September 15, 2020
posted by porpoise at 1:10 PM on September 15, 2020
It's a documentary, duh.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:46 PM on September 15, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:46 PM on September 15, 2020 [1 favorite]
Love the music in the trailer. I wasn't sure about the Mandalorian sound track at first but it really grew on me and I can't wait for more. Also: More folding TIEs! More of The Armourer! More s-foils to attack position! More of that cool Imperial klaxon! You know the one. More Cara Dune! A race of enemy sorcerers!
posted by EndsOfInvention at 9:18 AM on September 16, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by EndsOfInvention at 9:18 AM on September 16, 2020 [1 favorite]
The moment you realize the Razor Crest is being escorted and the s-foils move to attack position... awww yeahhhh...
posted by Slap*Happy at 9:15 PM on September 18, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by Slap*Happy at 9:15 PM on September 18, 2020 [1 favorite]
If this season has Mon Calamari battle-cruisers (basically luxury cruise ships retrofitted with fuck-off big weapons) blowing up Star Destroyers, I will die complete.
posted by Slap*Happy at 9:24 PM on September 18, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by Slap*Happy at 9:24 PM on September 18, 2020 [1 favorite]
Here's a decent video essay (35m) on the well-trod issue of droids in SW. In passing it calls out the damn lava boat scene in this episode, but I'd say mostly it makes me glad I never saw Solo, god damn.
posted by fleacircus at 3:54 AM on November 5, 2020
posted by fleacircus at 3:54 AM on November 5, 2020
Fleebnork: “This was great and I loved the whole sequence with IG nurse speeder biking and blasting Imps while Baby Yoda went wheeeeeee”This scene made me make excited caveman noises, which is not something that normally happens when I watch television.
posted by ob1quixote at 12:42 PM on December 23, 2020 [1 favorite]
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posted by MaritaCov at 2:02 AM on December 27, 2019 [19 favorites]