The Mandalorian: Chapter 12: The Siege
November 20, 2020 2:14 AM - Season 2, Episode 4 - Subscribe
The Mandalorian rejoins old allies for a new mission.
This episode directed by Carl Weathers (Greef Carga).
This episode directed by Carl Weathers (Greef Carga).
I found this one to be pretty charmless and rote, probably my least favorite episode of a show I love. It looked great, it just wasn’t fun. Even though this episode pushed the show’s mythology forward a bit, it actually felt even more like a video game sidequest than those that didn’t.
There was more interesting stuff happening on the periphery of the episode, like The Child’s electrician training and Dune’s conversation with her fellow veteran.
I loved the acknowledgement that more than anything else, the Empire hates workplace safety. Even the Ewok village had guardrails...
posted by Ian A.T. at 4:41 AM on November 20, 2020 [6 favorites]
There was more interesting stuff happening on the periphery of the episode, like The Child’s electrician training and Dune’s conversation with her fellow veteran.
I loved the acknowledgement that more than anything else, the Empire hates workplace safety. Even the Ewok village had guardrails...
posted by Ian A.T. at 4:41 AM on November 20, 2020 [6 favorites]
I thought this episode was really fun; it was everything I expected from a Star Wars show directed by Carl Weathers.
I noticed they couldn’t bring themselves to say the M-word.
posted by 1970s Antihero at 4:50 AM on November 20, 2020 [12 favorites]
I noticed they couldn’t bring themselves to say the M-word.
posted by 1970s Antihero at 4:50 AM on November 20, 2020 [12 favorites]
“It says here you’re from Aalderan...did you lose anyone?”
The entire planet exploded, you absolute coathanger.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 4:56 AM on November 20, 2020 [44 favorites]
The entire planet exploded, you absolute coathanger.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 4:56 AM on November 20, 2020 [44 favorites]
Are they cloning Palpatine? Is The Mandalorian "The Rise of Skywalker" fix-it fan-fic?
posted by crossoverman at 5:09 AM on November 20, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by crossoverman at 5:09 AM on November 20, 2020 [3 favorites]
I found this one to be pretty charmless and rote,
Yeah, it seemed like the sort of "break into an Imperial base, shoot a lot of stormtroopers, find something, and escape " mission you'd get in a video game. A lot of blah action just for the reveal that they're experimenting with trying use baby Yoda blood to... grow cloned Sith?
posted by EndsOfInvention at 5:56 AM on November 20, 2020
Yeah, it seemed like the sort of "break into an Imperial base, shoot a lot of stormtroopers, find something, and escape " mission you'd get in a video game. A lot of blah action just for the reveal that they're experimenting with trying use baby Yoda blood to... grow cloned Sith?
posted by EndsOfInvention at 5:56 AM on November 20, 2020
A few thoughts:
- "infiltrate an imperial base to blow it up" is not at all what a seige is. They've even had a seige in this show, at the end of last season! Moff Gideon laid seige to the bar to get them to surrender.
- Those two mechanics are fucking miracle workers if they fixed the Razorcrest back to shiny new faster than Baby Yoda could eat a sleeve of macarons. Also, they explicitly showed the imperial base on the opposite side of the planet, but they took a landspeeder there and Mando jetpacked back in no time. That planet must be about the size of rhode island. Folks, it's okay to imply that episodes depict events in a longer timescale than the show. Just have someone say "we leave tomorrow" or something.
- I'm guessing those things Moff Gideon is working on are Shadow Troopers, or Darktoopers, or some other variation of Super Stormtrooper that have appeared in various expanded universe games and books.
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 7:13 AM on November 20, 2020 [7 favorites]
- "infiltrate an imperial base to blow it up" is not at all what a seige is. They've even had a seige in this show, at the end of last season! Moff Gideon laid seige to the bar to get them to surrender.
- Those two mechanics are fucking miracle workers if they fixed the Razorcrest back to shiny new faster than Baby Yoda could eat a sleeve of macarons. Also, they explicitly showed the imperial base on the opposite side of the planet, but they took a landspeeder there and Mando jetpacked back in no time. That planet must be about the size of rhode island. Folks, it's okay to imply that episodes depict events in a longer timescale than the show. Just have someone say "we leave tomorrow" or something.
- I'm guessing those things Moff Gideon is working on are Shadow Troopers, or Darktoopers, or some other variation of Super Stormtrooper that have appeared in various expanded universe games and books.
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 7:13 AM on November 20, 2020 [7 favorites]
The Darktroopers were droids if I recall correctly. My assumption is that they're trying to induce force powers in clones via the use of the Child's blood, so maybe they're supposed to be force-using troopers of some kind.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 7:39 AM on November 20, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by EndsOfInvention at 7:39 AM on November 20, 2020 [2 favorites]
force-using troopers AKA foopers.
posted by Pendragon at 9:47 AM on November 20, 2020 [8 favorites]
posted by Pendragon at 9:47 AM on November 20, 2020 [8 favorites]
I found this one to be pretty charmless and rote, probably my least favorite episode of a show I love. It looked great, it just wasn’t fun. Even though this episode pushed the show’s mythology forward a bit, it actually felt even more like a video game sidequest than those that didn’t.
I liked this better than the egg-eating with spider-aliens episode. That one could be skipped over entirely and the only thing you'd miss is how the frog lady got onto his ship.
This episode didn't break a lot of new ground, but it had characters I like, some moments of humor, action that was fun, and it moved the story forward a little bit.
I'm usually the one complaining in these threads, heh.
posted by Fleebnork at 9:53 AM on November 20, 2020 [2 favorites]
I liked this better than the egg-eating with spider-aliens episode. That one could be skipped over entirely and the only thing you'd miss is how the frog lady got onto his ship.
This episode didn't break a lot of new ground, but it had characters I like, some moments of humor, action that was fun, and it moved the story forward a little bit.
I'm usually the one complaining in these threads, heh.
posted by Fleebnork at 9:53 AM on November 20, 2020 [2 favorites]
I came in to make a joke about workplace health and safety standards, but someone beat me to it. :) But also... we saw his chin! And his mouth! Scandalous. I can't remember if this happened at any point in the first season.
posted by confluency at 10:01 AM on November 20, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by confluency at 10:01 AM on November 20, 2020 [2 favorites]
we saw his chin! And his mouth! Scandalous. I can't remember if this happened at any point in the first season.
We literally saw his whole face at one point.....
posted by Pendragon at 10:37 AM on November 20, 2020 [3 favorites]
We literally saw his whole face at one point.....
posted by Pendragon at 10:37 AM on November 20, 2020 [3 favorites]
. Also, they explicitly showed the imperial base on the opposite side of the planet, but they took a landspeeder there and Mando jetpacked back in no time.
It's kind of hard to see but look again, the imperial base was just outside of the green zone, not on the other side of the planet.
posted by Pendragon at 12:07 PM on November 20, 2020 [3 favorites]
It's kind of hard to see but look again, the imperial base was just outside of the green zone, not on the other side of the planet.
posted by Pendragon at 12:07 PM on November 20, 2020 [3 favorites]
I loved the acknowledgement that more than anything else, the Empire hates workplace safety.
My headcanon is that the Rebellion really just started out as Space OSHA.
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 12:12 PM on November 20, 2020 [21 favorites]
My headcanon is that the Rebellion really just started out as Space OSHA.
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 12:12 PM on November 20, 2020 [21 favorites]
“Go do [insert space activity]!”
*1 second elapses*
“Hurry up!”
posted by Don.Kinsayder at 12:45 PM on November 20, 2020 [6 favorites]
*1 second elapses*
“Hurry up!”
posted by Don.Kinsayder at 12:45 PM on November 20, 2020 [6 favorites]
I kid. I’m happy with the baby Yoda show being simple, kinda dumb, and crowd-pleasing. Baby Yoda waving his little arms in the air, blissed out, while Mando barrel-rolls the Razorcrest? Fuck, yeah.
posted by Don.Kinsayder at 12:48 PM on November 20, 2020 [7 favorites]
posted by Don.Kinsayder at 12:48 PM on November 20, 2020 [7 favorites]
What are those spider-faced alien baddies called? Scary dudes!
posted by Don.Kinsayder at 12:50 PM on November 20, 2020
posted by Don.Kinsayder at 12:50 PM on November 20, 2020
I also questioned the timeline. They fixed that ship really quickly!
This was fun but so much of it kind of felt ... expected, maybe? It did feel very classic Star Wars. That's not necessarily a bad thing but I don't find that as interesting as some other things this show has done. The battle scenes were fun, though.
The Child (who still is and will forever be Baby Yoda to me and I'm not being talked out of that one) was a delight in this episode. Why did Mando think he was going to be capable of following instructions? Even though I knew 100% where that was going, the punchline was still great since there was a lot of anticipation for it.
I loved the stealing of the cookies. What an adorable brat.
posted by edencosmic at 1:29 PM on November 20, 2020 [8 favorites]
This was fun but so much of it kind of felt ... expected, maybe? It did feel very classic Star Wars. That's not necessarily a bad thing but I don't find that as interesting as some other things this show has done. The battle scenes were fun, though.
The Child (who still is and will forever be Baby Yoda to me and I'm not being talked out of that one) was a delight in this episode. Why did Mando think he was going to be capable of following instructions? Even though I knew 100% where that was going, the punchline was still great since there was a lot of anticipation for it.
I loved the stealing of the cookies. What an adorable brat.
posted by edencosmic at 1:29 PM on November 20, 2020 [8 favorites]
What are those spider-faced alien baddies called? Scary dudes!
I'm pretty sure those are a gang of Aqualish. You may remember Star Wars' most famous Aqualish, Ponda Baba. He's the guy that didn't like Luke in the Mos Eisley cantina and subsequently got his arm lightsabered off by Obi-Wan.
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 1:53 PM on November 20, 2020 [12 favorites]
I'm pretty sure those are a gang of Aqualish. You may remember Star Wars' most famous Aqualish, Ponda Baba. He's the guy that didn't like Luke in the Mos Eisley cantina and subsequently got his arm lightsabered off by Obi-Wan.
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 1:53 PM on November 20, 2020 [12 favorites]
That’s it, Mr. Encyclopedia! :-)
posted by Don.Kinsayder at 2:36 PM on November 20, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by Don.Kinsayder at 2:36 PM on November 20, 2020 [1 favorite]
Just started the episode and felt compelled to note that Mano instructing The Child echos every tech support call I've fielded since march.
Well any nearly every such call before that but now it's "It's broken and I need this to do my job and it's broken and - what? Waddya mean 'how is it broken?' It's broken, it's fucked and we're all gonna die."
So I am extra happyglad that this was much cuter than personal experience.
posted by mce at 2:42 PM on November 20, 2020 [11 favorites]
Well any nearly every such call before that but now it's "It's broken and I need this to do my job and it's broken and - what? Waddya mean 'how is it broken?' It's broken, it's fucked and we're all gonna die."
So I am extra happyglad that this was much cuter than personal experience.
posted by mce at 2:42 PM on November 20, 2020 [11 favorites]
We literally saw his whole face at one point.....OK, technically yes, but only when he was a child. Unless I'm seriously misremembering.
posted by confluency at 2:50 PM on November 20, 2020
You are definitely misremembering, there's a scene with IG-11 in the burning bar before they escape. Mando was trying to sacrifice himself when literally all he needed was some spray on the side of his head. Maybe a built-in first aid system would also be a smart addition along with the microrockets and jetpack.
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 2:56 PM on November 20, 2020 [7 favorites]
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 2:56 PM on November 20, 2020 [7 favorites]
I'm pretty sure those are a gang of Aqualish. You may remember Star Wars' most famous Aqualish, Ponda Baba. He's the guy that didn't like Luke in the Mos Eisley cantina and subsequently got his arm lightsabered off by Obi-Wan.
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 4:53 PM on November 20
More like Mr. Wookieepedia, amirite?
posted by ricochet biscuit at 5:13 PM on November 20, 2020 [11 favorites]
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 4:53 PM on November 20
More like Mr. Wookieepedia, amirite?
posted by ricochet biscuit at 5:13 PM on November 20, 2020 [11 favorites]
I generally enjoyed this one, but it's definitely sloppier than normal.
Weathers looks like he might be developing a little palsy (the scene where he looks back to make sure whatshisface gets on the transport before joining them, as he turns away, his hand looks like its shaking a bit).
Ok, letting the Child see his chin and mouth, this is development from meeting Bo-Katan, no?
posted by porpoise at 5:20 PM on November 20, 2020 [2 favorites]
Weathers looks like he might be developing a little palsy (the scene where he looks back to make sure whatshisface gets on the transport before joining them, as he turns away, his hand looks like its shaking a bit).
Ok, letting the Child see his chin and mouth, this is development from meeting Bo-Katan, no?
posted by porpoise at 5:20 PM on November 20, 2020 [2 favorites]
That’s it, Mr. Encyclopedia! :-)
Eponcylopedical
Hmm, I enjoyed this one. I like seeing the recurring characters, and classic Star Wars industrial design.
I came to ask what Gideon is growing but it seems like no one know for sure yet?
posted by medusa at 7:46 PM on November 20, 2020 [2 favorites]
Eponcylopedical
Hmm, I enjoyed this one. I like seeing the recurring characters, and classic Star Wars industrial design.
I came to ask what Gideon is growing but it seems like no one know for sure yet?
posted by medusa at 7:46 PM on November 20, 2020 [2 favorites]
Ok, this week's Emmett Asher-Perin recap:
The Baby Yoda antics in this episode were the Real Deal Grade A 100% Pure Entertainment of the week, though. Watching the kid learn language bit by bit, watching him electrocute himself by accident, watching him steal cookies (which is way more understandable than stealing precious eggs), watching him throw his hands into the air when dad dispenses a bunch of nasty TIE fighters, watching him get sick from all the airborne flips as dad ineffectively cleans him up. This is all we really wanted. If the whole show was just a montage of things like that, I’d be entirely content. I am fragile and tired this year, and the heart wants what it wants....posted by medusa at 7:52 PM on November 20, 2020 [5 favorites]
We get a continuation of the Star Wars tradition that blue food=space food. In this case, Baby Yoda steals a kid’s cookies at school, and they’re definitely just a pack of macarons. But they’re blue, so now they’re for space.
The Mythrol (give him a name???) complaining that there’s no railing around the controls that keep the station powered and secured over lava is an excellent little tweak at the fact that Star Wars hates railings, and the bad guys in particular really have it out for railings, and basically the entire Empire is just one long walkway over a bottomless chasm that you’re probably going to fall into. There are no safety precautions in Star Wars because all technological advances are devoted to destruction. I’ve gone on at length about this before.
My expectation for this show every week is only that it mixes Western/Samurai movies with Skyrim quests and extrudes them through a Star-Wars-shaped hole like a Play-Doh Fun Factory and I am never disappointed. The only thing that has dampened my enjoyment of this show is reading Gina Carano’s Twitter and discovering she’s a Trumpster. In real life she probably thinks Alderaan got what it deserved for committing election fraud against the Emperor. :’(
posted by ejs at 8:04 PM on November 20, 2020 [20 favorites]
posted by ejs at 8:04 PM on November 20, 2020 [20 favorites]
Yodito was cute squared in this one. The way he threw up just like a baby, without being too bothered about it -- and does he have enough onesies? He does not.
Are we supposed to believe that Karga had the First Order tipped off? It seemed pretty soon to trust him again.
I hope they do something about Carano. I don't think anybody serious recasts roles anymore, so I guess I just hope they don't fit her into the major arc.
posted by Countess Elena at 8:23 PM on November 20, 2020 [2 favorites]
Are we supposed to believe that Karga had the First Order tipped off? It seemed pretty soon to trust him again.
I hope they do something about Carano. I don't think anybody serious recasts roles anymore, so I guess I just hope they don't fit her into the major arc.
posted by Countess Elena at 8:23 PM on November 20, 2020 [2 favorites]
I have to disagree with the criticisms of the direction in this episode. This might be my favorite episode of the season so far. I think Carl Weathers has a really fine touch for Star Wars--the action kept moving and the character beats were consistent. I honestly think this is some of the best Star Wars since Star Wars*.
*"A New Hope," my aunt Beru.
posted by MrBadExample at 8:39 PM on November 20, 2020 [2 favorites]
*"A New Hope," my aunt Beru.
posted by MrBadExample at 8:39 PM on November 20, 2020 [2 favorites]
Clearly Mando is desperate to send the BABY in there to play with the wires...and hopefully understand what he says about them.... he's lucky the baby takes a shock well. Likewise, Baby Yoda in school stealing cookies* from the only kid in school that doesn't think he's cute. Being all WHEEEEEEEEEEE on the ride. He even throws up cute and I hate vomit!
* Hey, it's nice to see that the kid remembers he has telekinesis since I don't think he's used it since the mudhorn.
I concur that the show does like to do sidequests, but finding out that Moff Gideon is still alive and that the ship is tagged is a good plot development.
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:49 PM on November 20, 2020
* Hey, it's nice to see that the kid remembers he has telekinesis since I don't think he's used it since the mudhorn.
I concur that the show does like to do sidequests, but finding out that Moff Gideon is still alive and that the ship is tagged is a good plot development.
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:49 PM on November 20, 2020
The sense of humor this season is tone-deaf in this weirdly consistent way.
In this episode, the protagonists have abducted a man and taken him as a slave (because he owed them money), and throughout the episode they repeatedly exploit him and force him to undertake mortally dangerous work—and this is supposed to be the comic relief! Felt very similar to the bit two episodes ago where the comic relief was the Child gradually eating a woman's last surviving eggs.
It's like, sure, those are things that could happen and make some sense in universe. It's the Outer Rim, where there's no law and so slavery is likely to occur; and sure, tragedy could occur when a carnivorous baby happens to encounter a different sentient species' offspring. But the show doesn't seem to have any awareness that these are morally fraught or tragic occurrences; instead it treats them as throwaway laugh lines, in a way that undermines the reality of the world it's trying to create.
Coincidentally, this week's Star Trek episode also involved a blue alien slave, and the treatment of the two characters' situations really highlights the difference in tone and seriousness between the shows.
posted by Syllepsis at 10:04 PM on November 20, 2020 [18 favorites]
In this episode, the protagonists have abducted a man and taken him as a slave (because he owed them money), and throughout the episode they repeatedly exploit him and force him to undertake mortally dangerous work—and this is supposed to be the comic relief! Felt very similar to the bit two episodes ago where the comic relief was the Child gradually eating a woman's last surviving eggs.
It's like, sure, those are things that could happen and make some sense in universe. It's the Outer Rim, where there's no law and so slavery is likely to occur; and sure, tragedy could occur when a carnivorous baby happens to encounter a different sentient species' offspring. But the show doesn't seem to have any awareness that these are morally fraught or tragic occurrences; instead it treats them as throwaway laugh lines, in a way that undermines the reality of the world it's trying to create.
Coincidentally, this week's Star Trek episode also involved a blue alien slave, and the treatment of the two characters' situations really highlights the difference in tone and seriousness between the shows.
posted by Syllepsis at 10:04 PM on November 20, 2020 [18 favorites]
Oh, I forgot: how the hell are you indenturing a guy for hundreds of years past your own lifetime? It felt kinda like the prison season of "My Name Is Earl" what with the knocking off of his time.
Also, how the hell much money did you steal to deserve all of that?!
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:25 PM on November 20, 2020 [2 favorites]
Also, how the hell much money did you steal to deserve all of that?!
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:25 PM on November 20, 2020 [2 favorites]
I enjoyed this episode. I think we already knew Moff Gideon was okay, right? Wasn't the last shot of last season him emerging from the wreckage with the Darksaber? And I think they didn't say the M-word because it is a very long word and people doing research on midichlorian implantation would certainly abbreviate it by like, day 5.
I guess on these threads I'm mostly just falling into the role of "a mom of a toddler talks about how the TV alien toddler resembles her own toddler" but my personal toddler makes that exact "muh" noise when she wants a cookie I'm eating and my spouse and I both SCREAMED when Yodicito "muh"d that boy and pointed at his cookies. I literally got muh'd for a cookie yesterday, y'all. (Yes, I gave her some.)
My personal toddler would probably have put those wires into her personal mouth posthaste though so I'm glad Mando picked up Yodicito instead. Homegirl is constantly trying to charge herself with my phone cord.
posted by potrzebie at 11:30 PM on November 20, 2020 [14 favorites]
I guess on these threads I'm mostly just falling into the role of "a mom of a toddler talks about how the TV alien toddler resembles her own toddler" but my personal toddler makes that exact "muh" noise when she wants a cookie I'm eating and my spouse and I both SCREAMED when Yodicito "muh"d that boy and pointed at his cookies. I literally got muh'd for a cookie yesterday, y'all. (Yes, I gave her some.)
My personal toddler would probably have put those wires into her personal mouth posthaste though so I'm glad Mando picked up Yodicito instead. Homegirl is constantly trying to charge herself with my phone cord.
posted by potrzebie at 11:30 PM on November 20, 2020 [14 favorites]
Very much enjoying the kid's development and character beats in this one: how he doesn't bother using the Force when he's in MORTAL DANGER but he does when he wants a fucking macaron. Just like a kid. And how his language and comprehension are definitely growing but not quite all there yet. And how he used those manners Mando reminded him about last week to ask for the macarons first, before Force-stealing them.
I am so glad Mando has affixed a bunch of seatbelts to baby's seat now so he is safe to go "Wheee" and throw up when the Razor Crest is doing its death-defying space maneuvers. It's not just one seat belt, it's a number of seat belts all criss-crossing each other, which gives me great joy at the idea of Mando, off-screen, diligently attaching those to the seat to make sure his precious little baby is safe. Other more eagle-eyed viewers will know if that is a new development or not.
I get why people feel this episode is 'filler'. Something about it felt filler-y. It felt like another side quest even though as pointed out above, knowing that Moff G is alive and that they're doing something (to extend life? Wasn't sure) with the baby's blood, which is high in midichlorians is actually a major plot development and explains what the baddies want with the baby - and also why other forces unknown, perhaps even forces we might think are aligned with the good, would want the 'asset destroyed'.
posted by unicorn chaser at 11:59 PM on November 20, 2020 [6 favorites]
I am so glad Mando has affixed a bunch of seatbelts to baby's seat now so he is safe to go "Wheee" and throw up when the Razor Crest is doing its death-defying space maneuvers. It's not just one seat belt, it's a number of seat belts all criss-crossing each other, which gives me great joy at the idea of Mando, off-screen, diligently attaching those to the seat to make sure his precious little baby is safe. Other more eagle-eyed viewers will know if that is a new development or not.
I get why people feel this episode is 'filler'. Something about it felt filler-y. It felt like another side quest even though as pointed out above, knowing that Moff G is alive and that they're doing something (to extend life? Wasn't sure) with the baby's blood, which is high in midichlorians is actually a major plot development and explains what the baddies want with the baby - and also why other forces unknown, perhaps even forces we might think are aligned with the good, would want the 'asset destroyed'.
posted by unicorn chaser at 11:59 PM on November 20, 2020 [6 favorites]
I think we already knew Moff Gideon was okay, right? Wasn't the last shot of last season him emerging from the wreckage with the Darksaber?
Yep. Not much of a plot development there if it already happened. This show would be a lot more fun if Favreau took the writing as seriously as he takes the scenery and set dressing (which are fab), but instead we get half-hearted, clumsy plot moves doled out in dribbles with very little interest or flavor to them. That it took all of 10 seconds for Our Hero to find (and thoughtlessly jump at, with zero precautions) another too-easy lead to his next Mandelorian after the giant worm kill was the moment i gave up hope for this show having much intelligence to it. I mean, it has other charms - the monster baby continues to be very cute - but Favreau has clearly made the decision to not prioritize the writing for adult viewers, and it's difficult to have much hope the show will improve after you realize that.
I think the decision to keep Pedro Pascal entirely masked is a huge drag on the emotional resonance of the show and is a mistake that may have sounded good to someone on paper somewhere but is clearly hurting the whole project. My guess is they'll lose the helmet in the last episode of this season and tease us with an actual actor in the lead role for next year. Such a dumb decision, regardless of when they finally reverse it.
posted by mediareport at 2:51 AM on November 21, 2020 [7 favorites]
Yep. Not much of a plot development there if it already happened. This show would be a lot more fun if Favreau took the writing as seriously as he takes the scenery and set dressing (which are fab), but instead we get half-hearted, clumsy plot moves doled out in dribbles with very little interest or flavor to them. That it took all of 10 seconds for Our Hero to find (and thoughtlessly jump at, with zero precautions) another too-easy lead to his next Mandelorian after the giant worm kill was the moment i gave up hope for this show having much intelligence to it. I mean, it has other charms - the monster baby continues to be very cute - but Favreau has clearly made the decision to not prioritize the writing for adult viewers, and it's difficult to have much hope the show will improve after you realize that.
I think the decision to keep Pedro Pascal entirely masked is a huge drag on the emotional resonance of the show and is a mistake that may have sounded good to someone on paper somewhere but is clearly hurting the whole project. My guess is they'll lose the helmet in the last episode of this season and tease us with an actual actor in the lead role for next year. Such a dumb decision, regardless of when they finally reverse it.
posted by mediareport at 2:51 AM on November 21, 2020 [7 favorites]
He already took the helmet off in the last episode of the first season, and it was definitely Pedro Pascal underneath.
posted by Grangousier at 3:12 AM on November 21, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by Grangousier at 3:12 AM on November 21, 2020 [4 favorites]
I had to rewatch the last episode of the previous season; clearly I blanked out all this flagrant full facial nudity.
posted by confluency at 4:10 AM on November 21, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by confluency at 4:10 AM on November 21, 2020 [2 favorites]
Regarding the whole helmet thing: it doesn't bother me, in the same way that Dredd's helmet (in the One True Dredd Movie) didn't bother me. The helmet is like a really deadpan facial expression -- it's part of the character's personality. I think Pascal does a good enough job with his voice and his body language. But maybe that's just me.
posted by confluency at 4:18 AM on November 21, 2020 [10 favorites]
posted by confluency at 4:18 AM on November 21, 2020 [10 favorites]
He already took the helmet off in the last episode of the first season, and it was definitely Pedro Pascal underneath.
Yes, I know. That was a brilliant few seconds where we got to see exactly how weary and broken the character was, after all he'd been through. Imagine how much richer the show would be if Pascal was allowed to act like that throughout. The body language in that stiff armor, and a few head tilts, just don't cut it.
posted by mediareport at 4:32 AM on November 21, 2020 [3 favorites]
Yes, I know. That was a brilliant few seconds where we got to see exactly how weary and broken the character was, after all he'd been through. Imagine how much richer the show would be if Pascal was allowed to act like that throughout. The body language in that stiff armor, and a few head tilts, just don't cut it.
posted by mediareport at 4:32 AM on November 21, 2020 [3 favorites]
(I wasn't suggesting it's not Pascal under the armor.)
posted by mediareport at 4:34 AM on November 21, 2020
posted by mediareport at 4:34 AM on November 21, 2020
Sometimes it is indeed not Pascal under the armor.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 4:51 AM on November 21, 2020 [8 favorites]
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 4:51 AM on November 21, 2020 [8 favorites]
The helmet is his face as far as I am concerned. I hate when characters constantly take their helmets off just so the actors can do acting.
posted by yonega at 5:05 AM on November 21, 2020 [19 favorites]
posted by yonega at 5:05 AM on November 21, 2020 [19 favorites]
Seems obvious that the show will loosen the mask restriction as Mando grows as a character. In the meantime, it's totally fine and some very excellent work by Pedro Pascal.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:41 AM on November 21, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:41 AM on November 21, 2020 [4 favorites]
I hate the helmet rule. Not only does it make our lead mostly a blank slate except for the occasional deadpan snark, it's utterly impractical. The dude can't ever eat or drink unless he's utterly hidden away from all other life forms?! Is he slowly starving to death?! This is an idiot rule for his weird religious cult, no wonder they are unpopular.
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:54 AM on November 21, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:54 AM on November 21, 2020 [2 favorites]
I like Pascal's body-acting; I feel like he expresses things really well through his gestures and body movements. He is really such an excellent actor.
The dude can't ever eat or drink unless he's utterly hidden away from all other life forms?! Is he slowly starving to death?!
He ate in company in this episode - he lifted the helmet to show his chin and mouth to have a companionable soup with baby. It was very cute. I can't find a screenshot. I felt like it was significant that he ate while in the company of the kid. As you point out, he usually eats by himself; even in the last episode they made a point of highlighting that he will not eat or drink in company.
posted by unicorn chaser at 8:08 AM on November 21, 2020 [2 favorites]
The dude can't ever eat or drink unless he's utterly hidden away from all other life forms?! Is he slowly starving to death?!
He ate in company in this episode - he lifted the helmet to show his chin and mouth to have a companionable soup with baby. It was very cute. I can't find a screenshot. I felt like it was significant that he ate while in the company of the kid. As you point out, he usually eats by himself; even in the last episode they made a point of highlighting that he will not eat or drink in company.
posted by unicorn chaser at 8:08 AM on November 21, 2020 [2 favorites]
I think Mando risking a bite of food next to baby also demonstrates that he is thinking of baby as family, which might have allowances for seeing someone's face within the Watch beliefs. (my own guess)
posted by Fleebnork at 8:54 AM on November 21, 2020 [7 favorites]
posted by Fleebnork at 8:54 AM on November 21, 2020 [7 favorites]
My understanding, which I don’t have a source to justify, is that it’s rarely Pascal in the armor and mostly one stuntman or another.
Hey, it's nice to see that the kid remembers he has telekinesis since I don't think he's used it since the mudhorn.
I believe it was the finale of season 1 in which the kid used the force to protect everyone from a flamethrower in the bar that’s now a school.
posted by ejs at 8:58 AM on November 21, 2020 [2 favorites]
Hey, it's nice to see that the kid remembers he has telekinesis since I don't think he's used it since the mudhorn.
I believe it was the finale of season 1 in which the kid used the force to protect everyone from a flamethrower in the bar that’s now a school.
posted by ejs at 8:58 AM on November 21, 2020 [2 favorites]
It is interesting to see how much we have come to expect serialized television in a relatively short time. When Firefly came out, I don’t think anyone expected there to be an overall plot and that was 2002. The idea that episodes that don’t advance a series long arc feel like side quests is a pretty new development. I think some of why this show is so enjoyable is that it is relatively episodic. It can be fun and tell a story in 45 minutes without being chained to a five-season story.
posted by snofoam at 9:27 AM on November 21, 2020 [14 favorites]
posted by snofoam at 9:27 AM on November 21, 2020 [14 favorites]
The soup scene made me realize how much of a practical sacrifice it was for Mando to adopt The Child: presumably he took the helmet off when he was alone in the Razor Crest, but once he brought Baby Yoda on board he could no longer do that. What a pain!
posted by Ian A.T. at 12:35 PM on November 21, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by Ian A.T. at 12:35 PM on November 21, 2020 [3 favorites]
Mandalorian S2E4: The One Where Ensign Chell Joins The Hazard Team
posted by StarkRoads at 1:12 PM on November 21, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by StarkRoads at 1:12 PM on November 21, 2020 [1 favorite]
I'm seconding snofoam's statement. It annoyed me greatly when Steven Universe fans deride episodes as "filler," when those episodes were the show in the early days, it was always a slow burn thing.
posted by JHarris at 2:41 PM on November 21, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by JHarris at 2:41 PM on November 21, 2020 [4 favorites]
Han Solo was off doing whatever with Greef Karga when he should have been at home teaching his son not to be a Sith lord.
posted by chrchr at 2:50 PM on November 21, 2020 [5 favorites]
posted by chrchr at 2:50 PM on November 21, 2020 [5 favorites]
Ben was insufferable, who can blame him.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 3:15 PM on November 21, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 3:15 PM on November 21, 2020 [1 favorite]
Facebook is always trying to red-pill me with content from terrible comic “news” sites that claim Pascal walked off in the middle of the season because he got fed up with always wearing the helmet and tried to go over the heads of the production team and have Lucasfilm force them to change things. They are also extremely mad that he posted a meme on Instagram comparing MAGA hats to Nazi and Confederate flags. I don’t see any indication from any reputable sources that there is any truth to it.
(I would love to see some reporting on these comic/“nerd” news sites that pump out all sorts of essentially alt-right-adjacent nonsense.)
posted by jimw at 4:01 PM on November 21, 2020 [10 favorites]
(I would love to see some reporting on these comic/“nerd” news sites that pump out all sorts of essentially alt-right-adjacent nonsense.)
posted by jimw at 4:01 PM on November 21, 2020 [10 favorites]
I'm finding it very amusing how many people here seem to have purged all memory of Season 1's finale.
I'm also hoping they sunset the idea that Din Djarin never shows his face ever, especially as he continues to interact with folks who are way more Mandalorian than he is and think it's a stupid rule. The Faceless Hero is a fun concept, and it worked great for Boba Fett's 6:32 of screentime, but it drags when you're spending an appreciable amount of time with a character.
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 5:35 PM on November 21, 2020 [1 favorite]
I'm also hoping they sunset the idea that Din Djarin never shows his face ever, especially as he continues to interact with folks who are way more Mandalorian than he is and think it's a stupid rule. The Faceless Hero is a fun concept, and it worked great for Boba Fett's 6:32 of screentime, but it drags when you're spending an appreciable amount of time with a character.
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 5:35 PM on November 21, 2020 [1 favorite]
From what I recall hearing Pedro say on some documentary, there us a stuntman for his shooting scenes and another for the martial arts scenes.
posted by jenfullmoon at 5:39 PM on November 21, 2020
posted by jenfullmoon at 5:39 PM on November 21, 2020
I kinda dozed off during the ending of this one.
But I did notice the rear screen projection set a LOT more this episode, especially in the scenes outside the ship.
posted by Catblack at 7:15 PM on November 21, 2020
But I did notice the rear screen projection set a LOT more this episode, especially in the scenes outside the ship.
posted by Catblack at 7:15 PM on November 21, 2020
The one moment that really tested my suspension of disbelief was when Baby Yoda still had the packet of cookies on the ship at the end. No way there were any left at that point, not the way that kid eats.
posted by medusa at 7:37 PM on November 21, 2020 [17 favorites]
posted by medusa at 7:37 PM on November 21, 2020 [17 favorites]
I think Pascal does a good enough job with his voice and his body language. But maybe that's just me.
Carano's politics aside, she's just got no zazz. In the scenes with Carl Weathers, A guy in a fish mask, and Pedro Pascal in a full helmet, she was the weak link.
I liked Haywire, but there's a reason no-one made Haywire 2: The Haywiring.
posted by mikelieman at 7:51 PM on November 21, 2020 [7 favorites]
Carano's politics aside, she's just got no zazz. In the scenes with Carl Weathers, A guy in a fish mask, and Pedro Pascal in a full helmet, she was the weak link.
I liked Haywire, but there's a reason no-one made Haywire 2: The Haywiring.
posted by mikelieman at 7:51 PM on November 21, 2020 [7 favorites]
If Jeans Guy can get an action fig, I hope Frog Lady does too.
posted by porpoise at 8:45 PM on November 21, 2020 [6 favorites]
posted by porpoise at 8:45 PM on November 21, 2020 [6 favorites]
>I loved the acknowledgement that more than anything else, the Empire hates workplace safety.
When I played a Star Wars RPG, my character was a workplace safety robot discarded by the Empire named 05-H-13, or Oshie for short. They had many opinions on the lack of guardrails in Empire bases.
Our family spent a lot of time discussing macarons (which we've made) when the episode was done. Considering that macaron cookies don't have any dairy in them, we considered whether banthas might lay eggs, which would contribute to that unholy color and make them some kind of monotreme, I suppose.
posted by tchemgrrl at 8:55 PM on November 21, 2020 [6 favorites]
When I played a Star Wars RPG, my character was a workplace safety robot discarded by the Empire named 05-H-13, or Oshie for short. They had many opinions on the lack of guardrails in Empire bases.
Our family spent a lot of time discussing macarons (which we've made) when the episode was done. Considering that macaron cookies don't have any dairy in them, we considered whether banthas might lay eggs, which would contribute to that unholy color and make them some kind of monotreme, I suppose.
posted by tchemgrrl at 8:55 PM on November 21, 2020 [6 favorites]
Thanks for prompting me to look up "monotreme", which I previously assumed was a made-up Star Wars creature name (it means mammals which lay eggs).
posted by EndsOfInvention at 2:53 AM on November 22, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by EndsOfInvention at 2:53 AM on November 22, 2020 [3 favorites]
Macarons, hunh? I wouldn’t mind a Baby Yoda Show / GBBO crossover. I could see Prue as a force user.
posted by Don.Kinsayder at 5:22 AM on November 22, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by Don.Kinsayder at 5:22 AM on November 22, 2020 [4 favorites]
And Paul Hollywood is the darkest Sith Lord ever.
posted by briank at 7:22 AM on November 22, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by briank at 7:22 AM on November 22, 2020 [3 favorites]
Prue is a force-sensitive diplomat; Sue is an ex-imperial, possibly a secret Inquisitor. Noel was in the Knights of Ren before he found them boring and drifted off; Sandi runs a lively holochron archive/cafe and keeps a blaster rifle under the bar.
posted by pykrete jungle at 8:18 AM on November 22, 2020 [8 favorites]
posted by pykrete jungle at 8:18 AM on November 22, 2020 [8 favorites]
Ok, letting the Child see his chin and mouth, this is development from meeting Bo-Katan, no?
I really really hope so. I was so gratified to see my headcanon of "these Mandalorians are some kind of weird cult fanatics" vindicated; the Mandalore from Rebels seemed much more like a society than this weird pseudo-Spartan thing we'd seen in this show so far, as visually striking as it is, and as weighty as their ritual feels.
The fact that Din Djarin feels the need to be more Mando than Mando really seems to resonate with the way Worf was so reactionarily I AM KLINGON in Star Trek, when Kingons raised in Klingon culture are like, "Worf, please chill out a little" ; raised outside of the culture, he wants to reclaim it with both fists and stuff it into his face.
I hope the show eventually gets to the place where we can see that the austerity and ritual that we find appealing int he first episodes are really not sustainable for a living society, as opposed to being the strictures of a deeply traumatized group trying to survive. I won't get my hopes up too high for that, though.
And finally, as much as I enjoy this show and Star Wars generally, it really is never going to be able to dial in the value of life. Indentured servitude as a gag is on par with "hey, just leave Shmi Skywalker enslaved"; eating Frog Lady's eggs is, regardless of the eggs' status as beings, is still endangering her future; the tendency to treat alien lives as more expendable than human ones (possibly for parental guidance ratings reasons?) sends a bad subtextual message. It's not going to keep me from enjoying my Space Western with Darksabers, but it needles at me that they couldn't do those beats better.
PS: Rebels was better than Clone Wars, in part because it recognized more overtly that, like Wu-Tang, Star Wars is For the Children.
posted by pykrete jungle at 8:31 AM on November 22, 2020 [8 favorites]
Some of the parts here remind me of some of the negative reviews Star Wars faced after it came out: "The poly and dialogue is simplistic. It doesn't have the complexities and nuance of great SF films like A Dog and his Boy or Planet of the Apes..."
I mean yeah, sure it doesn't have the subtle plotting of Lost, Battlestar Galactica, or Westworld, but those series...um... On second thought it's probably a good idea not to try to emulate those shows. Maybe it's good when the showrunners aren't trying to tell everyone how much smarter that are than the audience."
posted by happyroach at 1:06 PM on November 22, 2020 [8 favorites]
I mean yeah, sure it doesn't have the subtle plotting of Lost, Battlestar Galactica, or Westworld, but those series...um... On second thought it's probably a good idea not to try to emulate those shows. Maybe it's good when the showrunners aren't trying to tell everyone how much smarter that are than the audience."
posted by happyroach at 1:06 PM on November 22, 2020 [8 favorites]
Yeah don't get me wrong, I am here for an unsophisticated space western. There are things I would like them to do differently, but I'm totally down with videogame questline style storytelling. Go to a place, do a mission for the locals, get some rewards, and get pointed toward the next quest. If you're lucky, you'll get a cutscene that reveals another tidbit of the overall plot. This is the best live action Star Wars since 1983. I'm perfectly happy to keep supporting stealing from the creators.
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 2:24 PM on November 22, 2020 [9 favorites]
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 2:24 PM on November 22, 2020 [9 favorites]
I found this one to be pretty charmless and rote, probably my least favorite episode of a show I love.
I got through the first 10 minutes and stopped. More than last season this show has the stink of Disney on it. I find it dull and uninteresting and far to murder happy. Shame. Had potential but with shows like Battlestar Galactica, Doctor Who, Star Trek (Lower Decks excepted), and Game of Thrones all shifting from excellence to mediocrity I'm finding it far easier to give up on shows I was once excited about. At base is probably the fact that as a young person Star Wars was the first personal experience of something so great and spectacular, moving to the utter mediocrity of Return of the Jedi. My memory is generally terrible these days but I remember exiting the theatre after Return of the Jedi and being incredibly disappointed. The Star Wars Christmas special in so many ways really is the blue print for all the live action projects that followed. That said it was a mistake to expect anything better from a Disney production.
posted by juiceCake at 12:41 PM on November 24, 2020
I got through the first 10 minutes and stopped. More than last season this show has the stink of Disney on it. I find it dull and uninteresting and far to murder happy. Shame. Had potential but with shows like Battlestar Galactica, Doctor Who, Star Trek (Lower Decks excepted), and Game of Thrones all shifting from excellence to mediocrity I'm finding it far easier to give up on shows I was once excited about. At base is probably the fact that as a young person Star Wars was the first personal experience of something so great and spectacular, moving to the utter mediocrity of Return of the Jedi. My memory is generally terrible these days but I remember exiting the theatre after Return of the Jedi and being incredibly disappointed. The Star Wars Christmas special in so many ways really is the blue print for all the live action projects that followed. That said it was a mistake to expect anything better from a Disney production.
posted by juiceCake at 12:41 PM on November 24, 2020
So is Baby Yoda hungry all the time because he's been exsanguinated within an inch of his life?
Honestly this puts an even darker twist on eating frog lady's eggs.
posted by GuyZero at 10:22 AM on November 25, 2020 [3 favorites]
Honestly this puts an even darker twist on eating frog lady's eggs.
posted by GuyZero at 10:22 AM on November 25, 2020 [3 favorites]
And Paul Hollywood is the darkest Sith Lord ever.
Really? When Noel Fielding is right there?
posted by The Tensor at 1:08 AM on November 26, 2020 [2 favorites]
Really? When Noel Fielding is right there?
posted by The Tensor at 1:08 AM on November 26, 2020 [2 favorites]
My read on it isn’t that Baby Yoda is hungry all the time but rather that he’s a toddler all the time.
posted by Ian A.T. at 5:08 AM on November 26, 2020 [5 favorites]
posted by Ian A.T. at 5:08 AM on November 26, 2020 [5 favorites]
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- At the school on Nevarro, the droid mentions The Hydian Way and the Maelstrom nebula.
- The transport that the crew make their getaway in seems to be a variant of the Imperial Troop Transport at the Imperial base originated as a toy made by Kenner in the 1970s.
- Outland TIE Fighters (the TIEs with folding wings) were originally designed for The Force Awakens but weren't used in the film.
- Paul Sun-Hyung Lee returns as an X-Wing Cop.
- Moff Gideon's ship appears to be an Arquitens-class Command Cruiser.
- Macarons are now part of Star Wars canon.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 3:43 AM on November 20, 2020 [3 favorites]