Andor: Rix Road
November 23, 2022 1:35 AM - Season 1, Episode 12 - Subscribe
The fugitive Cassian returns home to Ferrix, a tinderbox ready for the spark of rebellion.
Hah! Could there be any finer use for one’s mortal remains than braining a fascist?
Also: Good grief, Syril isn’t going to be any less creepy next season, is he? After all, he selflessly rescued the beautiful-but-deadly damsel in distress, just like the heroic stormtroopers in the cheap holo-novels he used to view at recess! Surely he’s a hero now, right? Right?
posted by Mr. Excellent at 1:45 AM on November 23, 2022 [26 favorites]
Also: Good grief, Syril isn’t going to be any less creepy next season, is he? After all, he selflessly rescued the beautiful-but-deadly damsel in distress, just like the heroic stormtroopers in the cheap holo-novels he used to view at recess! Surely he’s a hero now, right? Right?
posted by Mr. Excellent at 1:45 AM on November 23, 2022 [26 favorites]
I was sure the kid would be a suicide bomber and thought Wow, that’s really dark for Disney!do we even know who the kid is?
We win by saving what we love, just like Cassian saved his friends. That was a really nice moment. Also I am in love with Brasso and would follow him anywhere. What a guy!
It’s too bad Luthen and Maarva never met; they would get on like peas and carrots.
I am more convinced than ever that Cinta killed the hostages on Aldhani. She’s just that cold. Also I love that she rumbled the ISB spy right away.
posted by orrnyereg at 1:59 AM on November 23, 2022 [19 favorites]
We win by saving what we love, just like Cassian saved his friends. That was a really nice moment. Also I am in love with Brasso and would follow him anywhere. What a guy!
It’s too bad Luthen and Maarva never met; they would get on like peas and carrots.
I am more convinced than ever that Cinta killed the hostages on Aldhani. She’s just that cold. Also I love that she rumbled the ISB spy right away.
posted by orrnyereg at 1:59 AM on November 23, 2022 [19 favorites]
do we even know who the kid is?
He's Wilmon the son of Salman Paak, the guy who was tortured and executed by the ISB just before Bix was taken prisoner. He owned the scrap yard where Bix used the secret radio to talk to Luthen.
It’s too bad Luthen and Maarva never met; they would get on like peas and carrots.
I wonder if Maarva's speech affected Luthen at all - it seemed like it did. Maybe that helped him decide to recruit her son.
Also I love that she rumbled the ISB spy right away.
I cheered when she did him in.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 2:08 AM on November 23, 2022 [21 favorites]
He's Wilmon the son of Salman Paak, the guy who was tortured and executed by the ISB just before Bix was taken prisoner. He owned the scrap yard where Bix used the secret radio to talk to Luthen.
It’s too bad Luthen and Maarva never met; they would get on like peas and carrots.
I wonder if Maarva's speech affected Luthen at all - it seemed like it did. Maybe that helped him decide to recruit her son.
Also I love that she rumbled the ISB spy right away.
I cheered when she did him in.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 2:08 AM on November 23, 2022 [21 favorites]
A great finale. What I loved is that both Dedra's and Luthen's plans went astray because they didn't fully understand the place they were in and the people that make it the place it is - a shout-out for localism in a globalising era.
posted by domdib at 2:08 AM on November 23, 2022 [29 favorites]
posted by domdib at 2:08 AM on November 23, 2022 [29 favorites]
A More Civilised Age seems to have got hold of one of the ep12 screeners that were sent out last week because they just dropped their (3.5hr lmao) latest episode...
A More Civilized Age - Andor ep 12
A More Civilized Age - Andor ep 12
Surprise! Thanks to a very kind mystery contact with their own very kind mystery contacts inside of Lucasfilm (and/or Disney Plus), we were given last minute screener access to the Andor finale. And you better believe we hustled to watch it, prep our notes, and deliver the longest episode of our Andor season and one of the longest episodes we've ever recorded.posted by EndsOfInvention at 2:29 AM on November 23, 2022 [5 favorites]
Come for our emotional reactions to the return of voices we'd thought we'd heard the last of. Stay for our dive into 2000s-era anarchist philosophy. And then rate us five stars for all the time we dedicate to talking about our very favorite absolutely rotten relationships.
ALSO: As a special bonus for our Patrons, we recorded our own live reactions when we group watched this episode together. Go to patreon.com/civilized, support us at the $5 level, and you can hear each of our exuberant pop offs, our surprised gasps, our wavering voices, and our howls for the most rancid of love stories.
Side note: Why are the Disney+ episode summaries so clunky? I always end up spending a minute trying to rephrase it so it reads better.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 2:43 AM on November 23, 2022
posted by EndsOfInvention at 2:43 AM on November 23, 2022
I went over to the only friend here in Helsinki who’s been watching Andor, and we just sat and watched it and we were so fucking happy that the show didn’t fluff its lines.
Though, like many viewers, I wanted Karn to die stupidly, but him having a heroic moment in the service of evil is probably a better end to his arc.
Other than that, just everything was great. I was in tears during the funeral, and felt ready to riot myself after the speech.
What a show.
What a show!
posted by Kattullus at 3:03 AM on November 23, 2022 [6 favorites]
Though, like many viewers, I wanted Karn to die stupidly, but him having a heroic moment in the service of evil is probably a better end to his arc.
Other than that, just everything was great. I was in tears during the funeral, and felt ready to riot myself after the speech.
What a show.
What a show!
posted by Kattullus at 3:03 AM on November 23, 2022 [6 favorites]
It will be *very* interesting to see how this affects Meero’s career (outstanding acting from Gough when she was rescued; and also creepily effective from Soller).
posted by domdib at 3:43 AM on November 23, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by domdib at 3:43 AM on November 23, 2022 [4 favorites]
Also, I loved the shift in musical gears from the funeral band - both great tunes.
posted by domdib at 3:45 AM on November 23, 2022 [12 favorites]
posted by domdib at 3:45 AM on November 23, 2022 [12 favorites]
Ahhhh the funeral band! So good!
posted by EndsOfInvention at 3:57 AM on November 23, 2022 [12 favorites]
posted by EndsOfInvention at 3:57 AM on November 23, 2022 [12 favorites]
I sat through three seasons of Killing Eve hoping to see Fiona Shaw hit someone that hard.
posted by MarchHare at 4:21 AM on November 23, 2022 [17 favorites]
posted by MarchHare at 4:21 AM on November 23, 2022 [17 favorites]
The patience this show displays is incredibly refreshing.
posted by hototogisu at 5:01 AM on November 23, 2022 [23 favorites]
posted by hototogisu at 5:01 AM on November 23, 2022 [23 favorites]
Long live Ferrix! I did like how the raid on Spellhaus was so briefly dealt with after it had been built up in the last episode.
posted by inflatablekiwi at 5:14 AM on November 23, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by inflatablekiwi at 5:14 AM on November 23, 2022 [6 favorites]
The ability of this show to create tension!
- Was Luthen pleased or horrified with what he's created? Rebellion followed by a brutal crackdown is exactly what he's been trying to trigger all this time
It's what he wants, but has he ever been there to witness it before? And now we know why Maarva's death was off-screen - so that we could get the equivalent of her Force ghost inciting the Rebellion. And Andor doesn't even listen to her; as Brasso passes along, he already knows what he needs to know.
There's parallels here with "the Eye" in terms of using local ritual as cover for infiltration, but here the ritual extends to attacking the Imperial presence.
And dear God they've kept a thousand ships afloat with Karn I think...not at all what I expected for him.
posted by nubs at 5:18 AM on November 23, 2022 [12 favorites]
- Was Luthen pleased or horrified with what he's created? Rebellion followed by a brutal crackdown is exactly what he's been trying to trigger all this time
It's what he wants, but has he ever been there to witness it before? And now we know why Maarva's death was off-screen - so that we could get the equivalent of her Force ghost inciting the Rebellion. And Andor doesn't even listen to her; as Brasso passes along, he already knows what he needs to know.
There's parallels here with "the Eye" in terms of using local ritual as cover for infiltration, but here the ritual extends to attacking the Imperial presence.
And dear God they've kept a thousand ships afloat with Karn I think...not at all what I expected for him.
posted by nubs at 5:18 AM on November 23, 2022 [12 favorites]
And before I get deep into AMCA - I don’t think Andor gets seen by either the ISB or Luthen’s cell until he decides to be seen. And while Dedra and her little spy can’t seem to figure out how to dress like a local, neither can Luthen.
posted by nubs at 6:34 AM on November 23, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by nubs at 6:34 AM on November 23, 2022 [5 favorites]
Such a great job showing the riot/battle as chaotic and messy.
I am probably in the minority for finding the post credit scene annoying. One of the things I loved about this show was its subtlety and avoidance of hammy connecting of dots. Too much of modern Star Wars has become about self-referential connecting of all the things to all the other things. It makes it feel small.
I would rather have never known what the widgets they were building were for.
posted by Fleebnork at 6:38 AM on November 23, 2022 [4 favorites]
I am probably in the minority for finding the post credit scene annoying. One of the things I loved about this show was its subtlety and avoidance of hammy connecting of dots. Too much of modern Star Wars has become about self-referential connecting of all the things to all the other things. It makes it feel small.
I would rather have never known what the widgets they were building were for.
posted by Fleebnork at 6:38 AM on November 23, 2022 [4 favorites]
I dunno, I liked the choice of the post-credits scene. Good harrowing reminder of the stakes.
But I will like it more if season 2 spends time on Alderaan. I really really want that to happen.
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 6:50 AM on November 23, 2022 [6 favorites]
But I will like it more if season 2 spends time on Alderaan. I really really want that to happen.
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 6:50 AM on November 23, 2022 [6 favorites]
I'm astonished at how great this season was. It was an amazing story in its own right, and it enriches the fabric of Star Wars as a whole and Rogue One in particular.
One thing that always bothered me in Rogue One is that Andor has Galen Erso, his assassination target, in his sights but doesn't pull the trigger. In the moment, it just feels so unmotivated and contrived.
But now we know: Cassian's whole raison d'etre for joining the Rebellion is mixed up in grief for his mother, his search for a lost sister, and a determination to save what he loves, honoring Maarva and Nemik.
Five years later, when he trains his rifle on Galen Erso–– a symbolic echo of his own father, who was also gunned down, and the literal father of his symbolic sister Jyn Erso––and with his mother's dying words ringing in his ears, he follows the better angels of his nature.
Yoda: Do or do not, there is no try.
Nemik: One single thing will break the siege. Remember this: try.
Tony Gilroy isn't just making the plot line up in terms of incident; he's plotting this whole thing psychologically and thematically, too. Give him all the Star Wars, please.
posted by reclusive_thousandaire at 7:03 AM on November 23, 2022 [33 favorites]
One thing that always bothered me in Rogue One is that Andor has Galen Erso, his assassination target, in his sights but doesn't pull the trigger. In the moment, it just feels so unmotivated and contrived.
But now we know: Cassian's whole raison d'etre for joining the Rebellion is mixed up in grief for his mother, his search for a lost sister, and a determination to save what he loves, honoring Maarva and Nemik.
Five years later, when he trains his rifle on Galen Erso–– a symbolic echo of his own father, who was also gunned down, and the literal father of his symbolic sister Jyn Erso––and with his mother's dying words ringing in his ears, he follows the better angels of his nature.
Yoda: Do or do not, there is no try.
Nemik: One single thing will break the siege. Remember this: try.
Tony Gilroy isn't just making the plot line up in terms of incident; he's plotting this whole thing psychologically and thematically, too. Give him all the Star Wars, please.
posted by reclusive_thousandaire at 7:03 AM on November 23, 2022 [33 favorites]
I don't think we needed the post-credits reveal but this show does a good job of leaving some mysteries unexplained/questions unanswered, and if we had to have one thing answered at the end, I don't mind it being something relatively innocuous.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 8:19 AM on November 23, 2022 [10 favorites]
posted by EndsOfInvention at 8:19 AM on November 23, 2022 [10 favorites]
Tony Gilroy is writing his own Syril/Dedra crackfic, and I am here for it.
posted by 1970s Antihero at 8:56 AM on November 23, 2022 [7 favorites]
posted by 1970s Antihero at 8:56 AM on November 23, 2022 [7 favorites]
I think this show has more than earned the post credits scene, especially since it was short, dialogue-free and was a chance for Gilroy to get a gorgeous “2001: A Space Odyssey” shot in.
posted by AlonzoMosleyFBI at 9:02 AM on November 23, 2022 [18 favorites]
posted by AlonzoMosleyFBI at 9:02 AM on November 23, 2022 [18 favorites]
What an episode! I do love how pretty much all of the genre-informed guesses about what might happen were wrong, mine included. This show moved ahead with its premise--a thousand resentments congealing into a rebellion--and didn't need to "reveal" that two characters were related, one was secretly a Jedi and another had faked their death.
The symbolism of Dedra being torn apart by a mob of angry, unnamed proles would have been wonderful. I thought they were going there for a minute.
I wasn't completely sold on the final scene with Cassien and Luthen; that more than anything felt like a need to tie things up into a larger plot. And I repeat that Luthen flying to Ferrix to personally kill a potential informer is horrible op sec, doubling his risk of exposure.
Was Luthen pleased or horrified with what he's created?
The answer is obviously yes. This is what he needs to work towards, and he knows it's terrible. A sunless place.
posted by mark k at 9:12 AM on November 23, 2022 [13 favorites]
The symbolism of Dedra being torn apart by a mob of angry, unnamed proles would have been wonderful. I thought they were going there for a minute.
I wasn't completely sold on the final scene with Cassien and Luthen; that more than anything felt like a need to tie things up into a larger plot. And I repeat that Luthen flying to Ferrix to personally kill a potential informer is horrible op sec, doubling his risk of exposure.
Was Luthen pleased or horrified with what he's created?
The answer is obviously yes. This is what he needs to work towards, and he knows it's terrible. A sunless place.
posted by mark k at 9:12 AM on November 23, 2022 [13 favorites]
Re Luthen and Dedra not blending in: exactly, they underestimate or even ignore the cultural specifics, whereas Syril and Mosk do a better job, while Cassian is “in his element” - the power of the local.
Dedra gambled on Cassian showing and he ghosted past her while rescuing Bix. I wonder what Partagaz will say?
(Also, great that B2EMO made it, as well as Brasso 😀 and who would have thought that Pegla was going to be such an ally at need?)
posted by domdib at 9:13 AM on November 23, 2022 [15 favorites]
Dedra gambled on Cassian showing and he ghosted past her while rescuing Bix. I wonder what Partagaz will say?
(Also, great that B2EMO made it, as well as Brasso 😀 and who would have thought that Pegla was going to be such an ally at need?)
posted by domdib at 9:13 AM on November 23, 2022 [15 favorites]
I wonder what Partagaz will say?
Potentially a huge black eye for Dedra, whose selling point is her competence. She ran this mission, allowed the crowd to gather, overruled all alternatives, and came out with nothing.
posted by mark k at 9:16 AM on November 23, 2022 [18 favorites]
Potentially a huge black eye for Dedra, whose selling point is her competence. She ran this mission, allowed the crowd to gather, overruled all alternatives, and came out with nothing.
posted by mark k at 9:16 AM on November 23, 2022 [18 favorites]
who would have thought that Pegla was going to be such an ally at need?
And those dumb dogs!
I would love to see Luthen's reaction to finding out where Cassian has been "hiding" these past 6 weeks.
posted by orrnyereg at 9:37 AM on November 23, 2022 [5 favorites]
And those dumb dogs!
I would love to see Luthen's reaction to finding out where Cassian has been "hiding" these past 6 weeks.
posted by orrnyereg at 9:37 AM on November 23, 2022 [5 favorites]
And I repeat that Luthen flying to Ferrix to personally kill a potential informer is horrible op sec, doubling his risk of exposure.
It is, but I think this is one of the things to know about Luthen - while he gave Lonni the big "sunless place" speech, he isn't as dead inside as he pretends to be. There are cracks there, he has trouble letting go (even when he should), and I think after the decision to leave Kreegyr to his fate he needed to be doing something other than hiding in his shop listening to the radio. Going to Ferrix was perhaps a need to reconnect at a personal level with what he is doing - not just sending people off to die for his cause from a remote place. Also, and this is a personal reflection, I work in social work, and many many years ago I met a colleague who worked in palliative care at the Children's Hospital. We talked about her work and how difficult it was to work with families facing the loss of a child, and also how she dealt with her own grief. And she shared that how she managed that was not to go to every funeral, but to go to 2-3 a year and mourn them all. I wonder if Maarva's funeral was a chance for him to process some grief as well, and to have a moment to feel part of a community, however fleeting.
Now, Luthen got more than what he expected out of the moment, including Andor as a member of the cause.
Potentially a huge black eye for Dedra, whose selling point is her competence. She ran this mission, allowed the crowd to gather, overruled all alternatives, and came out with nothing.
Even worse than that, she lost the prisoner who could identify Axis. But on the plus side, she has Karn now? Maybe next year they are a sad sack couple feeling they've been wronged somehow.
posted by nubs at 9:50 AM on November 23, 2022 [19 favorites]
It is, but I think this is one of the things to know about Luthen - while he gave Lonni the big "sunless place" speech, he isn't as dead inside as he pretends to be. There are cracks there, he has trouble letting go (even when he should), and I think after the decision to leave Kreegyr to his fate he needed to be doing something other than hiding in his shop listening to the radio. Going to Ferrix was perhaps a need to reconnect at a personal level with what he is doing - not just sending people off to die for his cause from a remote place. Also, and this is a personal reflection, I work in social work, and many many years ago I met a colleague who worked in palliative care at the Children's Hospital. We talked about her work and how difficult it was to work with families facing the loss of a child, and also how she dealt with her own grief. And she shared that how she managed that was not to go to every funeral, but to go to 2-3 a year and mourn them all. I wonder if Maarva's funeral was a chance for him to process some grief as well, and to have a moment to feel part of a community, however fleeting.
Now, Luthen got more than what he expected out of the moment, including Andor as a member of the cause.
Potentially a huge black eye for Dedra, whose selling point is her competence. She ran this mission, allowed the crowd to gather, overruled all alternatives, and came out with nothing.
Even worse than that, she lost the prisoner who could identify Axis. But on the plus side, she has Karn now? Maybe next year they are a sad sack couple feeling they've been wronged somehow.
posted by nubs at 9:50 AM on November 23, 2022 [19 favorites]
I don't think we needed the post-credits reveal but this show does a good job of leaving some mysteries unexplained/questions unanswered, and if we had to have one thing answered at the end, I don't mind it being something relatively innocuous.
I'm in the same place - it's an innocuous reveal in terms of story development, but in a Star Wars show, it is something that will make a certain portion of the fan base go apeshit. I think it would be interesting to see if the clips of Maarva's speech or Nemik's treatise (when they show up) get anywhere near the engagement of the post-credits "reveal" (which already has YT clips).
posted by nubs at 11:15 AM on November 23, 2022 [4 favorites]
I'm in the same place - it's an innocuous reveal in terms of story development, but in a Star Wars show, it is something that will make a certain portion of the fan base go apeshit. I think it would be interesting to see if the clips of Maarva's speech or Nemik's treatise (when they show up) get anywhere near the engagement of the post-credits "reveal" (which already has YT clips).
posted by nubs at 11:15 AM on November 23, 2022 [4 favorites]
What a fantastic end for this season. I was wondering how they were going to land it. The show trades on the messiness and ugly compromises in a rebellion and if it ended too neatly it would have felt wrong. This ended with as much grit and awfulness as it needed. And some hope! Maarva's speech was fantastic.
I loved the bit of Syril becoming the White Knight to rescue Dedra. Combined with his sad sack origin story and we're one unanswered text message away from the full incel culture trifecta.
Loved the space flute procession. The design and the music itself, the tension as they marched through the streets, the shift from a dirge to a relentless march of power. Between this and the space bagpipes in Dune it's been a good year for scifi marching bands.
posted by Nelson at 12:02 PM on November 23, 2022 [12 favorites]
I loved the bit of Syril becoming the White Knight to rescue Dedra. Combined with his sad sack origin story and we're one unanswered text message away from the full incel culture trifecta.
Loved the space flute procession. The design and the music itself, the tension as they marched through the streets, the shift from a dirge to a relentless march of power. Between this and the space bagpipes in Dune it's been a good year for scifi marching bands.
posted by Nelson at 12:02 PM on November 23, 2022 [12 favorites]
My only disappointment is that it tied up almost too neatly; I wonder if they anticipated not getting renewed.
posted by andrewdoull at 12:42 PM on November 23, 2022
posted by andrewdoull at 12:42 PM on November 23, 2022
I love how this show foregrounds the background and backgrounds the foreground.
The entire cast is maneuvered to a single spot, so before watching I was naturally expecting some kind of confused giant ass multipolar showdown with rebels and imps both gunning for Andor, and the funeral as a colorful backdrop.
But no, the funeral is center stage, the main characters are peripheral to it. None of them can execute their missions -- its too chaotic -- except for Andor, who takes advantage of the chaos to rescue Bix. Everyone else is an observer or a victim.
The Ferrix funeral kind of rhymes with the Aldani Eye: both ride on the tension between Imperial and local practice, although the Eye was much more backgrounded than the funeral was.
I've been trying to sell this show to Mrs. Sauce -- I am the star wars geek in the Sauce family, and she kinda punched out after the ill-conceived Fett and the watchable but completely inessential Obi-Wan. She was watching with me inattentively but at one point it got her attention and she asked "hey, are the Imperials fighting a funeral here?" Might have hooked her.
My pre-Andor thesis about Star Wars TV was that the most special thing it does is set-piece fights between interesting and unexpected opponents: in Mandalorian you had Mando vs. Jawas and seven samurai villagers vs. AT-ST, in Rebels you had the astonishing Sith/Inquisitor/Jedi/Maul/ex-Jedi/apprentice furball of Twilight of the Apprentice . Even the beknighted Fett had Firespray vs. Sarlaac and Fett vs. kitchen staff droids.
To me, Andor is not just great TV but also great Star Wars because it's doing exactly the same thing as its TV predecessors. Only difference is that Gilroy has a bigger and more interesting toybox than Filoni and Favreau: his contains funerals and riot cops and electrified floors and wrenches. (and I say this as a big fan of a lot of the F&F work!)
the other thing I love about this show is how credible and hooky it is emotionally. B2EMO and Kino are superstars; their emotional journeys are credible, their jeopardies feel real, and their big moments are fist-pumpers. Mon Mothma's agony is real. Perrin Mothma's indignation at Mothma's gambling accusations feel real -- and what a neat turn to take this unsympathetic goofball and turn him into just another chip in Mothma's stake. Vel runs into a war zone and I'm pretty sure the reason she's doing that is because she's got hope of catching Cinta on the flipside of the op and scoring some together time. Cinta's "rich girl running away from her family" is such a great one-liner about the asymmetries of their relationship. I could go on and on.
posted by Sauce Trough at 12:45 PM on November 23, 2022 [21 favorites]
The entire cast is maneuvered to a single spot, so before watching I was naturally expecting some kind of confused giant ass multipolar showdown with rebels and imps both gunning for Andor, and the funeral as a colorful backdrop.
But no, the funeral is center stage, the main characters are peripheral to it. None of them can execute their missions -- its too chaotic -- except for Andor, who takes advantage of the chaos to rescue Bix. Everyone else is an observer or a victim.
The Ferrix funeral kind of rhymes with the Aldani Eye: both ride on the tension between Imperial and local practice, although the Eye was much more backgrounded than the funeral was.
I've been trying to sell this show to Mrs. Sauce -- I am the star wars geek in the Sauce family, and she kinda punched out after the ill-conceived Fett and the watchable but completely inessential Obi-Wan. She was watching with me inattentively but at one point it got her attention and she asked "hey, are the Imperials fighting a funeral here?" Might have hooked her.
My pre-Andor thesis about Star Wars TV was that the most special thing it does is set-piece fights between interesting and unexpected opponents: in Mandalorian you had Mando vs. Jawas and seven samurai villagers vs. AT-ST, in Rebels you had the astonishing Sith/Inquisitor/Jedi/Maul/ex-Jedi/apprentice furball of Twilight of the Apprentice . Even the beknighted Fett had Firespray vs. Sarlaac and Fett vs. kitchen staff droids.
To me, Andor is not just great TV but also great Star Wars because it's doing exactly the same thing as its TV predecessors. Only difference is that Gilroy has a bigger and more interesting toybox than Filoni and Favreau: his contains funerals and riot cops and electrified floors and wrenches. (and I say this as a big fan of a lot of the F&F work!)
the other thing I love about this show is how credible and hooky it is emotionally. B2EMO and Kino are superstars; their emotional journeys are credible, their jeopardies feel real, and their big moments are fist-pumpers. Mon Mothma's agony is real. Perrin Mothma's indignation at Mothma's gambling accusations feel real -- and what a neat turn to take this unsympathetic goofball and turn him into just another chip in Mothma's stake. Vel runs into a war zone and I'm pretty sure the reason she's doing that is because she's got hope of catching Cinta on the flipside of the op and scoring some together time. Cinta's "rich girl running away from her family" is such a great one-liner about the asymmetries of their relationship. I could go on and on.
posted by Sauce Trough at 12:45 PM on November 23, 2022 [21 favorites]
Also I love that she rumbled the ISB spy right away.
Well, I would think so, she's been keeping an eye on him for half the season....
posted by Pendragon at 1:21 PM on November 23, 2022
Well, I would think so, she's been keeping an eye on him for half the season....
posted by Pendragon at 1:21 PM on November 23, 2022
oh, forgot one word in my star wars thesis:
"the most special thing it does is set-piece fights between interesting, unexpected, and asymmetric opponents."
posted by Sauce Trough at 1:40 PM on November 23, 2022 [8 favorites]
"the most special thing it does is set-piece fights between interesting, unexpected, and asymmetric opponents."
posted by Sauce Trough at 1:40 PM on November 23, 2022 [8 favorites]
God damn, what a finale! The tense build up to the funeral, the pure visceral nature of the battle. I’m not sure I’ve seen explosions like that on TV or even film for a long time, certainly not on Star Wars – no cheesy fireball, just shrapnel and glass scything out. And the fighting… absolutely brutal.
I appreciated that the post-credits scene wasn’t very important, but I loved its sense of style. We’ve seen the Death Star so many times it’s boring now, but to have the lens appear deconstructed and funnelling into the moon – what a shot. The people behind this show manage to make everything in Star Wars seem so much cooler and more stylish.
posted by adrianhon at 1:45 PM on November 23, 2022 [6 favorites]
I appreciated that the post-credits scene wasn’t very important, but I loved its sense of style. We’ve seen the Death Star so many times it’s boring now, but to have the lens appear deconstructed and funnelling into the moon – what a shot. The people behind this show manage to make everything in Star Wars seem so much cooler and more stylish.
posted by adrianhon at 1:45 PM on November 23, 2022 [6 favorites]
I think this show has more than earned the post credits scene
For 12 episodes, we've seen the rebellion at ground level—dirty, grinding, and morally grey. The characters struggle to understand whether the ugliness and sacrifice were worth it.
In this episode, we hear "one single thing will break the siege." Then the post-credits scene zooms up (climb!) to show Star Wars at the Luke Skywalker level—clean, bloodless, and morally black-and-white. Almost childlike.
I think the show has definitely earned it.
posted by PlusDistance at 2:19 PM on November 23, 2022 [7 favorites]
For 12 episodes, we've seen the rebellion at ground level—dirty, grinding, and morally grey. The characters struggle to understand whether the ugliness and sacrifice were worth it.
In this episode, we hear "one single thing will break the siege." Then the post-credits scene zooms up (climb!) to show Star Wars at the Luke Skywalker level—clean, bloodless, and morally black-and-white. Almost childlike.
I think the show has definitely earned it.
posted by PlusDistance at 2:19 PM on November 23, 2022 [7 favorites]
In this episode, we hear "one single thing will break the siege."
"There will be times when the struggle seems impossible. I know this already. Alone, unsure, dwarfed by the scale of the enemy. Remember this: freedom is a pure idea. It occurs spontaneously and without instruction. Random acts of insurrection are occurring constantly throughout the galaxy. There are whole armies, battalions, that have no idea that they've already enlisted in the cause. Remember that the frontier of the Rebellion is everywhere, and even the smallest act of insurrection pushes our lines forward.
And then remember this: the Imperial need for control is so desperate because it so unnatural. Tyranny requires constant effort. It breaks. It leaks. Authority is brittle. Oppression is the mask of fear. Remember that. And know this: the day will come when all these skirmishes and battles, these moments of defiance, will have flooded the banks of the Empire's authority, and then there will one too many. One single thing will break the siege.
Remember this: try."
What I love about this is that it's a call to action with the point being that your action might just be the one that is the one too many, the one that tips the balance - and if it isn't, it's adding to the flood that while bring down the Empire. That you can't know what is happening in the next system, the next planet, the next floor of your prison, but that taking that action increases the pressure and keeps it building until control is no longer possible.
I personally really like how the post credits scene aligns with the "dwarfed by the scale of the enemy" piece.
posted by nubs at 2:59 PM on November 23, 2022 [34 favorites]
"There will be times when the struggle seems impossible. I know this already. Alone, unsure, dwarfed by the scale of the enemy. Remember this: freedom is a pure idea. It occurs spontaneously and without instruction. Random acts of insurrection are occurring constantly throughout the galaxy. There are whole armies, battalions, that have no idea that they've already enlisted in the cause. Remember that the frontier of the Rebellion is everywhere, and even the smallest act of insurrection pushes our lines forward.
And then remember this: the Imperial need for control is so desperate because it so unnatural. Tyranny requires constant effort. It breaks. It leaks. Authority is brittle. Oppression is the mask of fear. Remember that. And know this: the day will come when all these skirmishes and battles, these moments of defiance, will have flooded the banks of the Empire's authority, and then there will one too many. One single thing will break the siege.
Remember this: try."
What I love about this is that it's a call to action with the point being that your action might just be the one that is the one too many, the one that tips the balance - and if it isn't, it's adding to the flood that while bring down the Empire. That you can't know what is happening in the next system, the next planet, the next floor of your prison, but that taking that action increases the pressure and keeps it building until control is no longer possible.
I personally really like how the post credits scene aligns with the "dwarfed by the scale of the enemy" piece.
posted by nubs at 2:59 PM on November 23, 2022 [34 favorites]
My only disappointment is that it tied up almost too neatly; I wonder if they anticipated not getting renewed.
I think they always planned for 2 seasons, but the next one - as far as I am aware - jumps forward 4-ish years as it leads into the events of Rogue One. So it needed to tie up the main threads in a way that they were set for that jump.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 3:04 PM on November 23, 2022 [1 favorite]
I think they always planned for 2 seasons, but the next one - as far as I am aware - jumps forward 4-ish years as it leads into the events of Rogue One. So it needed to tie up the main threads in a way that they were set for that jump.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 3:04 PM on November 23, 2022 [1 favorite]
JWST after seeing the post-credit: are we the baddies?
I wonder if Luthen wants Dedra dead or wants to play her somehow in a way he did with Kreegyr.
posted by dogstoevski at 3:06 PM on November 23, 2022 [1 favorite]
I wonder if Luthen wants Dedra dead or wants to play her somehow in a way he did with Kreegyr.
posted by dogstoevski at 3:06 PM on November 23, 2022 [1 favorite]
I just finished binge-watching the whole season. I absolutely loved it.
Unless I missed something subtle, there was no mention of the Force or the use of lightsabers, or Jedi or Sith, anywhere. And I think the show was all the stronger for their absence.
posted by JohnFromGR at 3:29 PM on November 23, 2022 [16 favorites]
Unless I missed something subtle, there was no mention of the Force or the use of lightsabers, or Jedi or Sith, anywhere. And I think the show was all the stronger for their absence.
posted by JohnFromGR at 3:29 PM on November 23, 2022 [16 favorites]
I wonder if Luthen wants Dedra dead or wants to play her somehow in a way he did with Kreegyr.
Luthen is a manipulator: I think he would rather know who is acting at ISB, and through their actions (and Lonni) learn how to work around them, than have to start from scratch with another rising supervisor.
*
This was SO GOOD. So good. I'm surprised none of the major characters died, actually: I figured at least someone important would go. Instead we lost minor characters like Corv and Nurchi.
I do wonder what information Nurchi thought he had to sell: that Andor was back? The Imps knew that was gonna happen. And then he got himself blowed up anyway.
It was interesting to learn that Luthen honestly did plan to kill Andor; they had kept that a bit ambiguous for a while.
So will Brasso, Jezz, and Bix start a rebel cell somewhere? Or just find a new scrapyard?
The aftermath on Ferrix is going to be brutal. And I do wonder if Meero will convince herself that Andor was Axis?
Loved the stormtrooper getting kicked off the tower by the Time Wrangler.
posted by suelac at 4:31 PM on November 23, 2022 [6 favorites]
Luthen is a manipulator: I think he would rather know who is acting at ISB, and through their actions (and Lonni) learn how to work around them, than have to start from scratch with another rising supervisor.
*
This was SO GOOD. So good. I'm surprised none of the major characters died, actually: I figured at least someone important would go. Instead we lost minor characters like Corv and Nurchi.
I do wonder what information Nurchi thought he had to sell: that Andor was back? The Imps knew that was gonna happen. And then he got himself blowed up anyway.
It was interesting to learn that Luthen honestly did plan to kill Andor; they had kept that a bit ambiguous for a while.
So will Brasso, Jezz, and Bix start a rebel cell somewhere? Or just find a new scrapyard?
The aftermath on Ferrix is going to be brutal. And I do wonder if Meero will convince herself that Andor was Axis?
Loved the stormtrooper getting kicked off the tower by the Time Wrangler.
posted by suelac at 4:31 PM on November 23, 2022 [6 favorites]
I do wonder what information Nurchi thought he had to sell: that Andor was back?
Nurchi had figured out that Andor was watching the funeral from the tower (although he'd escaped into the tunnels by the time Dedra arrived).
posted by EndsOfInvention at 4:46 PM on November 23, 2022 [3 favorites]
Nurchi had figured out that Andor was watching the funeral from the tower (although he'd escaped into the tunnels by the time Dedra arrived).
posted by EndsOfInvention at 4:46 PM on November 23, 2022 [3 favorites]
Loved the stormtrooper getting kicked off the tower by the Time Wrangler.
The guy in the bell tower is, of course, played by Neil Bell.
posted by Gary at 5:35 PM on November 23, 2022 [3 favorites]
The guy in the bell tower is, of course, played by Neil Bell.
posted by Gary at 5:35 PM on November 23, 2022 [3 favorites]
Just a thought: Andor reminds me less of Star Wars and more of Children of Men.
posted by MarchHare at 5:44 PM on November 23, 2022 [23 favorites]
posted by MarchHare at 5:44 PM on November 23, 2022 [23 favorites]
The guy in the bell tower
The Time Grappler
posted by 1970s Antihero at 5:48 PM on November 23, 2022 [7 favorites]
The Time Grappler
posted by 1970s Antihero at 5:48 PM on November 23, 2022 [7 favorites]
I just read the entry for the Time Wrangler posted above. They state the anvil is made of Beskar steel, which makes sense as I noticed the surface sheen had those whirls on it just like in “The Mandalorian”. I’m guessing that in this particular point in the history it’s more easily obtainable because there must be a shit ton of it in that anvil.
posted by AlonzoMosleyFBI at 5:48 PM on November 23, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by AlonzoMosleyFBI at 5:48 PM on November 23, 2022 [1 favorite]
Do not ask for whom the Time Grappler defenstrates; he defenstrates for thee
posted by nubs at 6:04 PM on November 23, 2022 [34 favorites]
posted by nubs at 6:04 PM on November 23, 2022 [34 favorites]
The only sort of head scratching I had about the post-credits scene is it suggests that the death star is pretty frickin' close to being done. Indeed, we see them putting the dish into place in Rogue One, so somewhere between now and then (4 years-ish? say?), the rebellion is all kitted out in corellian cruisers & whatnot. Or maybe the rebellion is already gathering gear on Yavin, waiting for the first time they'll need it, and Luthen & his cells are where the rebellion interacts the most with "civil society" and even the Empire? Hrm.
I guess I need to go over to Wookiepedia to figure out where Cassian's childhood and Jyn's childhood line up with the formation of the Empire.
But all that aside, this was absolutely the finest bit of premium television this season. Rings was nice enough and the Dragons were dragon-y, but Star Wars can be _great_ when it's firing on all cylinders.
posted by Kyol at 6:53 PM on November 23, 2022 [4 favorites]
I guess I need to go over to Wookiepedia to figure out where Cassian's childhood and Jyn's childhood line up with the formation of the Empire.
But all that aside, this was absolutely the finest bit of premium television this season. Rings was nice enough and the Dragons were dragon-y, but Star Wars can be _great_ when it's firing on all cylinders.
posted by Kyol at 6:53 PM on November 23, 2022 [4 favorites]
Based on her final speech, i wonder: is this series named after Cassian ... or Maarva?
posted by jazon at 7:04 PM on November 23, 2022 [30 favorites]
posted by jazon at 7:04 PM on November 23, 2022 [30 favorites]
Kyol — there’s supposed to be a time jump for season 2. Guessing the end credits scene is part of that
posted by nathan_teske at 7:15 PM on November 23, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by nathan_teske at 7:15 PM on November 23, 2022 [1 favorite]
Cheered like we scored a goal in the Stanley Cup final at Dedra getting bricked, and several other times. It’s good she’ll be around for the second season though, such a great character.
Fuck, what an episode. This team really knows how to build tension and release.
I was wrong about Luthen going soft on Cassian. Happy to be, because the show is consistently better than my imagination. Should probably give up trying to guess where it’s going to go next season but I know won’t be able to.
posted by rodlymight at 7:27 PM on November 23, 2022 [4 favorites]
Fuck, what an episode. This team really knows how to build tension and release.
I was wrong about Luthen going soft on Cassian. Happy to be, because the show is consistently better than my imagination. Should probably give up trying to guess where it’s going to go next season but I know won’t be able to.
posted by rodlymight at 7:27 PM on November 23, 2022 [4 favorites]
So the tunnel Andor hides in and uses to get into the hotel...that's the one Maarva was checking out when she got hurt, right? The one she thought the Rebellion could use to sneak into the hotel?
posted by nubs at 9:18 PM on November 23, 2022 [29 favorites]
posted by nubs at 9:18 PM on November 23, 2022 [29 favorites]
A friend pointed out the unique musical arrangements each episode had for the main title reveal/melody. Soaring and ‘rebel-y’ for the first episode, getting gradually darker over the series. By episode 12, it foreshadows the funeral dirge.
So much thought went into this show.
posted by FallibleHuman at 9:43 PM on November 23, 2022 [11 favorites]
So much thought went into this show.
posted by FallibleHuman at 9:43 PM on November 23, 2022 [11 favorites]
Did Brasso headbutt... a helmeted stormtrooper?
I felt like Gilroy's writing wasn't quite as pitch perfect this episode, but perhaps that's because he raised the bar so high with all the others.
And now I have to wait until 2024 for season two. I'll definitely be watching Rogue One this weekend.
posted by gwint at 9:52 PM on November 23, 2022 [7 favorites]
I felt like Gilroy's writing wasn't quite as pitch perfect this episode, but perhaps that's because he raised the bar so high with all the others.
And now I have to wait until 2024 for season two. I'll definitely be watching Rogue One this weekend.
posted by gwint at 9:52 PM on November 23, 2022 [7 favorites]
Eight movies to watch after finishing 'Andor' (As you might expect, they're not scifi movies, but rather primarily anti-fascist ones)
posted by gwint at 10:03 PM on November 23, 2022 [21 favorites]
posted by gwint at 10:03 PM on November 23, 2022 [21 favorites]
The symbolism of Dedra being torn apart by a mob of angry, unnamed proles would have been wonderful. I thought they were going there for a minute.
I really thought they were going to kill her, and -- though I'm not particularly inflamed with hatred for Dedra yet -- I was disappointed she survived. Ultimately the finale's victories are the survival of Cassian's friends after very publicly doing violence to the Empire (I'm genuinely shocked Brasso made it out, much less the son with the IED) and Cassian signing up with the rebellion. Now, I'm sure they have something neat planned for Dedra next season. But if the show wanted to deliver another plausible victory, it's that the brilliant analyst who catalyzed so much of this season's action could be killed in a moment's miscalculation of a righteous mob. The untouchable figures who operate the machinery of the Empire only need one bad day to become a lot more vulnerable. (And the Empire might miss her talent, but would never really feel the loss!)
Otherwise, excellent episode. It's wild how little of Cassian there was -- he was in plenty of scenes, but the episode starred Ferrix.
posted by grandiloquiet at 10:15 PM on November 23, 2022 [6 favorites]
I really thought they were going to kill her, and -- though I'm not particularly inflamed with hatred for Dedra yet -- I was disappointed she survived. Ultimately the finale's victories are the survival of Cassian's friends after very publicly doing violence to the Empire (I'm genuinely shocked Brasso made it out, much less the son with the IED) and Cassian signing up with the rebellion. Now, I'm sure they have something neat planned for Dedra next season. But if the show wanted to deliver another plausible victory, it's that the brilliant analyst who catalyzed so much of this season's action could be killed in a moment's miscalculation of a righteous mob. The untouchable figures who operate the machinery of the Empire only need one bad day to become a lot more vulnerable. (And the Empire might miss her talent, but would never really feel the loss!)
Otherwise, excellent episode. It's wild how little of Cassian there was -- he was in plenty of scenes, but the episode starred Ferrix.
posted by grandiloquiet at 10:15 PM on November 23, 2022 [6 favorites]
Loved it! Still no news on Andor's sister though, I guess they're saving that for a future season... just hope there is one, as this is the best Star War I've seen in ages.
posted by TheophileEscargot at 12:53 AM on November 24, 2022
posted by TheophileEscargot at 12:53 AM on November 24, 2022
My favorite part was when Maarva tells the people listening that they've been asleep while their freedom trickled away, but now it's time for that to end—it's time to fight, to become a woke mob of antifascists, and bash some stormtrooper heads in.
This is what Star Wars has always been about—it's nice to see that somebody remembers.
posted by The Tensor at 1:15 AM on November 24, 2022 [11 favorites]
This is what Star Wars has always been about—it's nice to see that somebody remembers.
posted by The Tensor at 1:15 AM on November 24, 2022 [11 favorites]
Ah FallibleHuman, I came into the thread to post this too - a good friend who is something of a musical prodigy pointed this out to me. I hadn't noticed the layering going on each episode until she pointed it out and then, sure enough, in episode 12 it is revealed as the funeral march.
It's such a good validation (if any were needed) that all the elements were aligned in making a joined up finale.
I had said to her I would riot if B was wrecked. As it turned out, I felt like rioting anyway after Maarva's speech.
posted by Molesome at 1:19 AM on November 24, 2022 [8 favorites]
It's such a good validation (if any were needed) that all the elements were aligned in making a joined up finale.
I had said to her I would riot if B was wrecked. As it turned out, I felt like rioting anyway after Maarva's speech.
posted by Molesome at 1:19 AM on November 24, 2022 [8 favorites]
A YouTube playlist of all the main opening title theme variations in Season 1 of Andor.
posted by skoosh at 6:45 AM on November 24, 2022 [11 favorites]
posted by skoosh at 6:45 AM on November 24, 2022 [11 favorites]
I'd completely missed the evolution of the opening title music as I'd almost always skipped over it...
posted by EndsOfInvention at 6:56 AM on November 24, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by EndsOfInvention at 6:56 AM on November 24, 2022 [3 favorites]
I hadn't been tuned into it until I read about it on FanFare, so I'm glad someone put together a playlist so people like us can hear that evolution.
posted by skoosh at 7:59 AM on November 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by skoosh at 7:59 AM on November 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
I know I kept wondering why the "Skip Intro" button kept dropping me into the opening title music until it got mentioned either here or maybe on AMCA; I was always too anxious to get to the show!
posted by nubs at 8:42 AM on November 24, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by nubs at 8:42 AM on November 24, 2022 [3 favorites]
I made a bunch of screen grabs of the funeral procession band. Love the musical instruments, someone in the prop department had a lot of fun. My favorite is the second picture, the 3 barrelled flute. I'd love to see a quick video edit which was just the music. Might not work very well though, there's a lot of cuts and it's not a continuous bit of music. Also it's really just one musical phrase repeated (and then another, when the march starts.)
posted by Nelson at 9:16 AM on November 24, 2022
posted by Nelson at 9:16 AM on November 24, 2022
Vulture: Exit Interview with Tony Gilroy. Meaty interview talking about many production and plot details. Including a clear answer to the burning question "Were the shots of Syril eating spherical cereal a Death Star clue?"
posted by Nelson at 10:41 AM on November 24, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by Nelson at 10:41 AM on November 24, 2022 [4 favorites]
I think maybe I prefer the original intro music from 1975
posted by Molesome at 11:12 AM on November 24, 2022 [10 favorites]
posted by Molesome at 11:12 AM on November 24, 2022 [10 favorites]
This was absolutely tremendous. I hope that they can continue to have a mix of Star Wars projects at different levels like this, and we have avoided the future where everything was spun out of The Mandalorian. (Which I still appreciate, but The Book of Boba Fett convinced me would be a grim fate.)
posted by jimw at 11:17 AM on November 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by jimw at 11:17 AM on November 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
From the interview, on Kino not being able to swim:
For Kino, what’s better than that line? And what’s better than realizing that he’s known that all day long?
When I rewatched that episode, that was exactly what I was thinking: Kino knows he can't swim; he knows how this ends for him. It's why he starts the day "dead already". It's why he stays on the floor when they are about to spark it, and the look on his face afterwards says it all - he didn't expect to live through the first few minutes of the attempt.
posted by nubs at 12:37 PM on November 24, 2022 [8 favorites]
For Kino, what’s better than that line? And what’s better than realizing that he’s known that all day long?
When I rewatched that episode, that was exactly what I was thinking: Kino knows he can't swim; he knows how this ends for him. It's why he starts the day "dead already". It's why he stays on the floor when they are about to spark it, and the look on his face afterwards says it all - he didn't expect to live through the first few minutes of the attempt.
posted by nubs at 12:37 PM on November 24, 2022 [8 favorites]
I loved this but I was confused the whole time about what Cassian was up to. Why did he come back? Who did he want to see or talk to? What did he want to do? Did he accomplish those things? It seemed like whatever his original purpose was he dropped it to rescue Bix?
Did Cassian know about the funeral plans and use that knowledge to plan the rescue? Was the funeral procession planned in part to enable Cassian's rescue attempt? Did anyone but the bomber know about the bomb? Or was it all just chaos and people improvising their best in reaction to the chaos?
posted by straight at 1:37 PM on November 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
Did Cassian know about the funeral plans and use that knowledge to plan the rescue? Was the funeral procession planned in part to enable Cassian's rescue attempt? Did anyone but the bomber know about the bomb? Or was it all just chaos and people improvising their best in reaction to the chaos?
posted by straight at 1:37 PM on November 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
I mean… Cassian came back to be at the funeral of the mother he loved. I don’t think there’s any mystery about why he would want to return home.
I don’t believe that there was some grand revolt planned, but when Cassian learned Bix was imprisoned, he made it his mission to rescue her and he took advantage of all the chaos to make that work.
posted by adrianhon at 2:54 PM on November 24, 2022 [17 favorites]
I don’t believe that there was some grand revolt planned, but when Cassian learned Bix was imprisoned, he made it his mission to rescue her and he took advantage of all the chaos to make that work.
posted by adrianhon at 2:54 PM on November 24, 2022 [17 favorites]
I am probably in the minority for finding the post credit scene annoying. One of the things I loved about this show was its subtlety and avoidance of hammy connecting of dots. Too much of modern Star Wars has become about self-referential connecting of all the things to all the other things. It makes it feel small.
Counterpoint: Cassian built those bits of the Deathstar. The Deathstar that kills him.
He helped make the thing that kills him.
Did anyone else catch the parallels when Luthen hopped on his speederbike and popped his hood up and roared off into the distance? Very Darth-Maul-on-Tattoine for me.
posted by coriolisdave at 2:58 PM on November 24, 2022 [9 favorites]
Counterpoint: Cassian built those bits of the Deathstar. The Deathstar that kills him.
He helped make the thing that kills him.
Did anyone else catch the parallels when Luthen hopped on his speederbike and popped his hood up and roared off into the distance? Very Darth-Maul-on-Tattoine for me.
posted by coriolisdave at 2:58 PM on November 24, 2022 [9 favorites]
You FLIP b2emo?
I'm sad the season's over. I want more.
I love that it seems Mon Mothma just made up a gambling accusation against her shitty husband in order to set up a smokescreen for her banking problems. Poor guy! Also, fuck him lol.
Overall though I wish there had been another ratchet tighter of something happening; after setting up for the payoff of all the pieces coming together, it felt like a bit of a fizzle. It wasn't bad. It did what it needed to. In any case, I like to see my blorbos running around, and I liked it but didn't love it. I think especially I wanted more of a payoff for Vel who they kept showing like she might be working up to make a move of her own.
posted by fleacircus at 3:23 PM on November 24, 2022 [5 favorites]
I'm sad the season's over. I want more.
I love that it seems Mon Mothma just made up a gambling accusation against her shitty husband in order to set up a smokescreen for her banking problems. Poor guy! Also, fuck him lol.
Overall though I wish there had been another ratchet tighter of something happening; after setting up for the payoff of all the pieces coming together, it felt like a bit of a fizzle. It wasn't bad. It did what it needed to. In any case, I like to see my blorbos running around, and I liked it but didn't love it. I think especially I wanted more of a payoff for Vel who they kept showing like she might be working up to make a move of her own.
posted by fleacircus at 3:23 PM on November 24, 2022 [5 favorites]
What did he want to do? Did he accomplish those things? It seemed like whatever his original purpose was he dropped it to rescue Bix?
He wanted to come to his mother's funeral, but his conversation with Brasso changed that - Brasso shared Maarva's final words to him, and that helped to close off his need to be there, because now he knows he's doing what Maarva wants, that he's become what she knew he would. And then he knows he needs to try to rescue Bix, so why not use the funeral as cover? The whole ISB will be watching for him at the funeral.
Counterpoint: Cassian built those bits of the Deathstar. The Deathstar that kills him.
He helped make the thing that kills him.
Cassian helps to build bits of the Deathstar, that will kill him just after he finishes transmitting the plans of the Deathstar, thus ensuring the destruction of the Deathstar. There's an interesting set of cause and effect here (and if Karn doesn't instigate the chase after Andor...) And while my initial reaction to the final shot of the Deathstar is to relate it to Nemik's line about being dwarfed by the scale of the enemy, it's also a reminder that it itself is made up of thousands of small pieces, a series of small actions that combine to make something bigger - but unlike the Rebellion, where those efforts are decentralized and not easily able to be contained and controlled, the Deathstar unites them all into something terrible, but something that can confronted and destroyed in one battle.
posted by nubs at 3:53 PM on November 24, 2022 [15 favorites]
He wanted to come to his mother's funeral, but his conversation with Brasso changed that - Brasso shared Maarva's final words to him, and that helped to close off his need to be there, because now he knows he's doing what Maarva wants, that he's become what she knew he would. And then he knows he needs to try to rescue Bix, so why not use the funeral as cover? The whole ISB will be watching for him at the funeral.
Counterpoint: Cassian built those bits of the Deathstar. The Deathstar that kills him.
He helped make the thing that kills him.
Cassian helps to build bits of the Deathstar, that will kill him just after he finishes transmitting the plans of the Deathstar, thus ensuring the destruction of the Deathstar. There's an interesting set of cause and effect here (and if Karn doesn't instigate the chase after Andor...) And while my initial reaction to the final shot of the Deathstar is to relate it to Nemik's line about being dwarfed by the scale of the enemy, it's also a reminder that it itself is made up of thousands of small pieces, a series of small actions that combine to make something bigger - but unlike the Rebellion, where those efforts are decentralized and not easily able to be contained and controlled, the Deathstar unites them all into something terrible, but something that can confronted and destroyed in one battle.
posted by nubs at 3:53 PM on November 24, 2022 [15 favorites]
Does anyone know if there’s a full version of that manifesto somewhere, or just those paragraphs we hear?
posted by curious nu at 6:54 PM on November 24, 2022
posted by curious nu at 6:54 PM on November 24, 2022
In this Vulture interview, Gilroy talks about writing Nemik’s manifesto bits for each scene, so it doesn’t sound like there is an actual longer document.
Nemik went through a lot of passes. We always wanted a Trotsky: the young, naïve radical. If you’re going to have Cassian ingesting all of the possible forms of conversion to the Rebellion, we needed a dialectic character. Then we cast Alex Lawther. A lot of the rewrites and upgrading along the way is based on the cast, and the cast we have is so good. Even watching him audition, it was like, We can go anywhere. The campfire speech he gives in Aldhani was the can opener. When we finally cracked that, it was like, Oh, here he is. The second speech is the mercenary speech he gives Cassian in the morning, and that went so easily. The power of the manifesto — episode 11, that scene, we had kind of late. You get on a roll with those things, and you just try to break your own heart. You’re trying to write speeches for the things you believe in. Sometimes it takes a long time to find the voice, but once you’re there, they tend to go quick.posted by rodlymight at 7:23 PM on November 24, 2022 [13 favorites]
This season has been so good. It's going to be difficult waiting for season 2 to premiere way out in 2024.
I'm really hoping Luthen doesn't turn out to be Jedi, Sith, or force-sensitive at all. It'd be better for him to have just been very driven, observant, studious, and competent. My impression is the Jedi Council were almost as bad as the Imperials in being out-of-touch & routinely underestimating the average citizens.
posted by Fiberoptic Zebroid and The Hypnagogic Jerks at 9:38 PM on November 24, 2022 [24 favorites]
I'm really hoping Luthen doesn't turn out to be Jedi, Sith, or force-sensitive at all. It'd be better for him to have just been very driven, observant, studious, and competent. My impression is the Jedi Council were almost as bad as the Imperials in being out-of-touch & routinely underestimating the average citizens.
> You FLIP b2emo?"you FLIP B2EMO!? you flip B2EMO's body over like the empty can!? oh! oh! jail for Imp. jail for Imp with a restraining bolt in his waste port for ONE THOUSAND YEARS!!!"
posted by Fiberoptic Zebroid and The Hypnagogic Jerks at 9:38 PM on November 24, 2022 [24 favorites]
Space Miette shows no mercy!
posted by orrnyereg at 7:14 AM on November 25, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by orrnyereg at 7:14 AM on November 25, 2022 [4 favorites]
alternatively, you flip my B2EMO you fluff my hog
this show was incredible, truly a miracle that star wars as an IP is even capable of making something this rich, this resonant, this tightly wound.
I was sort of skeptical about a season 2 until reading that vulture interview and gilroy's clear confidence and understanding of the story he wants to tell. I appreciate him reinforcing that the show will not continue to be about Cassian's wavering allegiance, because it's not wavering anymore and won't again
when i grow up i want to be the Time Grappler
posted by Kybard at 6:18 PM on November 25, 2022 [8 favorites]
this show was incredible, truly a miracle that star wars as an IP is even capable of making something this rich, this resonant, this tightly wound.
I was sort of skeptical about a season 2 until reading that vulture interview and gilroy's clear confidence and understanding of the story he wants to tell. I appreciate him reinforcing that the show will not continue to be about Cassian's wavering allegiance, because it's not wavering anymore and won't again
when i grow up i want to be the Time Grappler
posted by Kybard at 6:18 PM on November 25, 2022 [8 favorites]
I spent the entire series convinced the bellringer was Clancy Brown.
posted by curious nu at 9:18 AM on November 26, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by curious nu at 9:18 AM on November 26, 2022 [4 favorites]
I thought the post-credit scene was the perfect gracenote for the season and a reminder that while skirmishes at funerals feel like big stakes, there is always a bigger fish.
Also, love the dramatic irony that Cassian helped to create the thing that ultimately kills him.
posted by crossoverman at 5:43 PM on November 26, 2022 [4 favorites]
Also, love the dramatic irony that Cassian helped to create the thing that ultimately kills him.
posted by crossoverman at 5:43 PM on November 26, 2022 [4 favorites]
I look it as more that the Death Star's destruction is built into it in the start, because it was born out of oppression. Rogue One does this more in a more heavy handed way when Galen Erso is drafted and builds in a flaw deliberately.
Typical of Andor's strengths that it stands this on its head: the "sin" the Empire pays for is not coercing a some irreplaceable great man but instead countless nameless proles.
posted by mark k at 6:46 PM on November 26, 2022 [14 favorites]
Typical of Andor's strengths that it stands this on its head: the "sin" the Empire pays for is not coercing a some irreplaceable great man but instead countless nameless proles.
posted by mark k at 6:46 PM on November 26, 2022 [14 favorites]
> Stay for our dive into 2000s-era anarchist philosophy.
> Gilroy talks about writing Nemik’s manifesto bits for each scene, so it doesn’t sound like there is an actual longer document.
Empire[1,2] :P
posted by kliuless at 1:01 AM on November 27, 2022 [7 favorites]
> Gilroy talks about writing Nemik’s manifesto bits for each scene, so it doesn’t sound like there is an actual longer document.
Empire[1,2] :P
posted by kliuless at 1:01 AM on November 27, 2022 [7 favorites]
A great piece on Nicholas Britell's scoring of Andor.
posted by domdib at 7:24 AM on November 27, 2022
posted by domdib at 7:24 AM on November 27, 2022
It's the Death Star. Gotta be.
posted by cooker girl at 7:16 AM on October 27 [8 favorites +] [!]
OH MY GOD I WAS RIGHT.
posted by cooker girl at 12:01 PM on November 27, 2022 [24 favorites]
posted by cooker girl at 7:16 AM on October 27 [8 favorites +] [!]
OH MY GOD I WAS RIGHT.
posted by cooker girl at 12:01 PM on November 27, 2022 [24 favorites]
This just felt like all of the other Star Wars movies and shows to me for the first half of the season, and then somewhere along the line, it started to catch my interest and I was looking up more and more from my work, which I’m always doing when the TV is on, and then I was completely hooked. The universe has become increasingly irritating to me, and I say that as somebody who went nuts for the first movie when I saw it at the first premiere, first matinee, all those years ago. But this crew really roped me back in, possibly because it isn’t full of Jedi nonsense and cardboard characters and sophomoric writing. And they seem to understand what Rogue One actually got, which is to show that something can be depressing and terrible while still offering some hope and sense of the future being better because of these sacrifices. The lines Luthen had about burning himself just…wow. And Maarva’s speech!
Dedra is so loathsome and she and Karn deserve each other. I’m kind of fascinated because the first time I saw Denise Gough was playing opposite Sebastian Stan in the movie Monday, where she was his love interest. And they really hit her with the ugly stick here — she is incredibly pretty in real life, but here they give her the slicked down, pulled tight hair, permanently turned down, grimacing mouth, sickly gray cast to her skin, and these deep dark circles under her eyes and gray lines coming down around her mouth. It was kind of fascinating that her looks represented her character so acutely and I really liked that subtle play. It seems like so many actors are not willing to let themselves look that bad.
posted by kitten kaboodle at 6:26 PM on November 27, 2022 [9 favorites]
Dedra is so loathsome and she and Karn deserve each other. I’m kind of fascinated because the first time I saw Denise Gough was playing opposite Sebastian Stan in the movie Monday, where she was his love interest. And they really hit her with the ugly stick here — she is incredibly pretty in real life, but here they give her the slicked down, pulled tight hair, permanently turned down, grimacing mouth, sickly gray cast to her skin, and these deep dark circles under her eyes and gray lines coming down around her mouth. It was kind of fascinating that her looks represented her character so acutely and I really liked that subtle play. It seems like so many actors are not willing to let themselves look that bad.
posted by kitten kaboodle at 6:26 PM on November 27, 2022 [9 favorites]
the first time I saw Denise Gough was playing opposite Sebastian Stan in the movie Monday,
I don't think I've seen Denise Gough in anything else before and I looked up the trailer and wow - she's completely unrecognisable. Voice, look, expressions... after hearing her American accent in the Monday trailer I had to double check where she's from as her English accent was perfect (Ireland, which makes sense). I watch so much mediocre Star Wars that I sometimes forget what good acting looks like but damn, this show has good acting.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 2:45 AM on November 28, 2022 [2 favorites]
I don't think I've seen Denise Gough in anything else before and I looked up the trailer and wow - she's completely unrecognisable. Voice, look, expressions... after hearing her American accent in the Monday trailer I had to double check where she's from as her English accent was perfect (Ireland, which makes sense). I watch so much mediocre Star Wars that I sometimes forget what good acting looks like but damn, this show has good acting.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 2:45 AM on November 28, 2022 [2 favorites]
I'm sad that the show has ended for now, mostly because it has been the best show I watched this year, but also because these threads have been a joy to follow and participate in.
A close friend said he gave up after episode 3 because there "wasn't enough plot". I'm next seeing him at Christmas and considering taking a whiteboard and string.
posted by Molesome at 4:55 AM on November 28, 2022 [18 favorites]
A close friend said he gave up after episode 3 because there "wasn't enough plot". I'm next seeing him at Christmas and considering taking a whiteboard and string.
posted by Molesome at 4:55 AM on November 28, 2022 [18 favorites]
I don't think anyone has noted the particular breakdown for next season, but the plan is that we will pick up a year from the events of this episode, and then follow a three episode arc then jump a year pattern that will supposedly lead us right up to Rogue One. So Season 1 of Andor was 5 years before Rogue One, Season 2 will start at 3 years, then 2 years, then 1 year, and finally the "omg here we go." (presuming a 12 episode season).
A lot of thoughts and a scattered mind to address them, but needless to say, I really loved this show and the finale.
Mothma's Sacrifice
This season, shown by her conversation with cousin Vel, ended with Mothma fully making a decision to sacrifice everything to fight the Empire. Her conversation about how transferring the money had started off so easily, in a way, similar to her participation in the nascent rebellion, and then grew far more complicated. In the finale, we see her essentially sacrifice her husband (no major deal for her, tbh), but more so, her daughter, to continue going forward with her plan to fight the empire. It's the prelude to Mothma becoming the leading figure of the Alliance as she gives up everything she has to become someone who will live on the run, cutting her hair and dressing simply in robes. I really can't wait for her next chapter in Season 2. Also, read up on the Ghorman Massacre, because the Ghormans have been named dropped this season...and that is most definitely coming!
Deedra the Rebel?
This is a far off forecast, but there are two things that will come as a result of Deedra's near death experience on Ferrix. She will become only more hardened an Imperial, or she will begin to doubt the system. She was confronted with something more than just numbers, but the fury and passion of a planet toward the system she has sought not just to serve, but to rise and succeed within. Will this shake her core? Will she become our next Kallus? If this is her path, then it will likely happen when she discovers she has a rebel mole in her midst and...does nothing.
Maarva's Speech
Star Wars has a long history of killing off the mother. In Andor it was the father who first died, for a change, and Cassian essentially enjoyed an entire life with his mother (she was old and sick, a'ight?). I had thought she would end up as a cause for Andor to fight after her intention to scrap it up with the Empire. I did not expect her to become a cause and symbol for a planet, much less possibly, a galaxy. Really love that Gilroy and team went this path, as Star Wars continues to veer off the All Mothers Must Die track (okay, so this happened, but it wasn't in the tragic, child loses mother path).
The Death Star
This was a nice touch, in my opinion for a number of reasons. First, the connection to the prison factory was a solid reference back to three things previously written/shown about the Death Star's construction: the Empire killing those who worked on it to keep it secret from the galaxy until it was operational. This happened with the genocide of the Geonosians (Rebels), and the multiple execution of scientists working to develop the super laser (Catalyst) and on the Death Star in general (Rogue One specifically the scene when Krennic shows up and orders the scientists' execution other than Galen's). As we know, the prisoners were never going to be freed, and more likely than not, once their role was done, executed.
More so, the Death Star is the ultimate symbol of the Empire's attempt to dominate and control the galaxy. It will continually be in focus as we go forward because Rogue One begins with the final understanding by the Rebels that it exists. This was the mission that Cassian was sent to follow up on at the beginning of the movie on the Rings of Kafrene. It's the ill-fated informant (whom we'll probably see next season!) who shares with Cassian the Empire has a planet killer. What would be seriously amazing if they can manage to sneak Bodhi Rook into the last episode arc of season two. As we know from Rebels, Saw Gerrera has his own hunt for the Empire's mysterious weapon and I wouldn't be surprised if this is somehow interwoven into next season's narrative.
It's likely that we will see and hear reference to the Death Star in a response to the Empire's growing inability to stomp out the nascent rebellions.
Ultimately love how the show has gone so far and like a spiral going inward, it's going to be incredibly as we go forward and the circles narrow, drawing together more and more things until we see the rebels on Yavin IV planning to bust out Jyn Erso.
posted by Atreides at 8:33 AM on November 28, 2022 [12 favorites]
A lot of thoughts and a scattered mind to address them, but needless to say, I really loved this show and the finale.
This season, shown by her conversation with cousin Vel, ended with Mothma fully making a decision to sacrifice everything to fight the Empire. Her conversation about how transferring the money had started off so easily, in a way, similar to her participation in the nascent rebellion, and then grew far more complicated. In the finale, we see her essentially sacrifice her husband (no major deal for her, tbh), but more so, her daughter, to continue going forward with her plan to fight the empire. It's the prelude to Mothma becoming the leading figure of the Alliance as she gives up everything she has to become someone who will live on the run, cutting her hair and dressing simply in robes. I really can't wait for her next chapter in Season 2. Also, read up on the Ghorman Massacre, because the Ghormans have been named dropped this season...and that is most definitely coming!
This is a far off forecast, but there are two things that will come as a result of Deedra's near death experience on Ferrix. She will become only more hardened an Imperial, or she will begin to doubt the system. She was confronted with something more than just numbers, but the fury and passion of a planet toward the system she has sought not just to serve, but to rise and succeed within. Will this shake her core? Will she become our next Kallus? If this is her path, then it will likely happen when she discovers she has a rebel mole in her midst and...does nothing.
Star Wars has a long history of killing off the mother. In Andor it was the father who first died, for a change, and Cassian essentially enjoyed an entire life with his mother (she was old and sick, a'ight?). I had thought she would end up as a cause for Andor to fight after her intention to scrap it up with the Empire. I did not expect her to become a cause and symbol for a planet, much less possibly, a galaxy. Really love that Gilroy and team went this path, as Star Wars continues to veer off the All Mothers Must Die track (okay, so this happened, but it wasn't in the tragic, child loses mother path).
This was a nice touch, in my opinion for a number of reasons. First, the connection to the prison factory was a solid reference back to three things previously written/shown about the Death Star's construction: the Empire killing those who worked on it to keep it secret from the galaxy until it was operational. This happened with the genocide of the Geonosians (Rebels), and the multiple execution of scientists working to develop the super laser (Catalyst) and on the Death Star in general (Rogue One specifically the scene when Krennic shows up and orders the scientists' execution other than Galen's). As we know, the prisoners were never going to be freed, and more likely than not, once their role was done, executed.
More so, the Death Star is the ultimate symbol of the Empire's attempt to dominate and control the galaxy. It will continually be in focus as we go forward because Rogue One begins with the final understanding by the Rebels that it exists. This was the mission that Cassian was sent to follow up on at the beginning of the movie on the Rings of Kafrene. It's the ill-fated informant (whom we'll probably see next season!) who shares with Cassian the Empire has a planet killer. What would be seriously amazing if they can manage to sneak Bodhi Rook into the last episode arc of season two. As we know from Rebels, Saw Gerrera has his own hunt for the Empire's mysterious weapon and I wouldn't be surprised if this is somehow interwoven into next season's narrative.
It's likely that we will see and hear reference to the Death Star in a response to the Empire's growing inability to stomp out the nascent rebellions.
Ultimately love how the show has gone so far and like a spiral going inward, it's going to be incredibly as we go forward and the circles narrow, drawing together more and more things until we see the rebels on Yavin IV planning to bust out Jyn Erso.
posted by Atreides at 8:33 AM on November 28, 2022 [12 favorites]
I think maybe I prefer the original intro music from 1975
Quoting this because anyone who hasn't click the link--which is not just the music but the title sequence from the (non-existent) 1975 version of the series, needs to do so now.
posted by mark k at 11:11 AM on November 28, 2022 [6 favorites]
Quoting this because anyone who hasn't click the link--which is not just the music but the title sequence from the (non-existent) 1975 version of the series, needs to do so now.
posted by mark k at 11:11 AM on November 28, 2022 [6 favorites]
Speaking of Nerik's manifesto, this montage with bits of Nerik's manifesto read over the top is very affecting.
posted by crossoverman at 2:03 PM on November 28, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by crossoverman at 2:03 PM on November 28, 2022 [6 favorites]
In the finale, we see her essentially sacrifice her husband (no major deal for her, tbh), but more so, her daughter,
I suspect that setting up her husband is going to allow MM to save her daughter—if the ISB believes that her husband gambled away the money, MM will no longer have to agree to the arranged marriage to conceal her financial maneuvering. And it might not even require sacrificing her husband, just embarrassing him.
posted by The Tensor at 9:57 PM on November 28, 2022 [7 favorites]
I suspect that setting up her husband is going to allow MM to save her daughter—if the ISB believes that her husband gambled away the money, MM will no longer have to agree to the arranged marriage to conceal her financial maneuvering. And it might not even require sacrificing her husband, just embarrassing him.
posted by The Tensor at 9:57 PM on November 28, 2022 [7 favorites]
That would be a great play. I'm here for it. Leida, I'm not so sure.
The fact that named her Leida makes me feel there's absolutely going to be a Leia scene or reference later on (Bail Organa has to show up at some point if only because of the major role he and his queen play in organizing the rebellion with Mothma).
posted by Atreides at 6:34 AM on November 29, 2022 [2 favorites]
The fact that named her Leida makes me feel there's absolutely going to be a Leia scene or reference later on (Bail Organa has to show up at some point if only because of the major role he and his queen play in organizing the rebellion with Mothma).
posted by Atreides at 6:34 AM on November 29, 2022 [2 favorites]
If I’m parsing the death dates correctly for Cassian’s parents in the StarWars.com episode guide trivia gallery, and given that we know he was 16 when Clem died, that makes him 29 in this season. Which doesn’t fit with my sense of his age, which was closer to Diego Luna’s actually age of 43. If I’d had to guess, I’d have said he was around 35.
posted by Kattullus at 1:41 PM on November 29, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Kattullus at 1:41 PM on November 29, 2022 [1 favorite]
Interview with Denise Gough (Dedra Meero) - including a mention that Maarva's speech originally ended "Fuck the Empire!"
posted by EndsOfInvention at 4:49 AM on November 30, 2022 [7 favorites]
posted by EndsOfInvention at 4:49 AM on November 30, 2022 [7 favorites]
The fact that named her Leida makes me feel there's absolutely going to be a Leia scene or reference later on
I agree Bail Organa is likely to show up, but Gilroy's team didn't name Leida: that name comes from one of the secondary sources, according to AMCA. I guess they could have changed it if they wanted?
It is a little weird that Mothma named her daughter, born a few years later, something so close to the daughter of her political ally.
posted by suelac at 9:10 AM on November 30, 2022 [1 favorite]
I agree Bail Organa is likely to show up, but Gilroy's team didn't name Leida: that name comes from one of the secondary sources, according to AMCA. I guess they could have changed it if they wanted?
It is a little weird that Mothma named her daughter, born a few years later, something so close to the daughter of her political ally.
posted by suelac at 9:10 AM on November 30, 2022 [1 favorite]
We can just assume that Leia was like the Jennifer or Katherine of its time. No one went to grade school on Coruscant without knowing three different Leias.
I feel this is a variation on the Tiffany problem, one of these things where fiction needs to be unrealistic to seem realistic. It is weird feeling their names would be close in fiction for no reason at all, but IRL no one would think twice about it. The fact that one gaming table I play at now has three of the six of us named Mark, and two of us Mark K, is totally not motivating this comment.
posted by mark k at 9:57 AM on November 30, 2022 [11 favorites]
I feel this is a variation on the Tiffany problem, one of these things where fiction needs to be unrealistic to seem realistic. It is weird feeling their names would be close in fiction for no reason at all, but IRL no one would think twice about it. The fact that one gaming table I play at now has three of the six of us named Mark, and two of us Mark K, is totally not motivating this comment.
posted by mark k at 9:57 AM on November 30, 2022 [11 favorites]
This season was about Cassian's conversion, and thus I second the idea that S2 will feature Dedra's conversion. Cassian's conversion was one founded on the witness & lives of true believers; Dedra's will be one of deconstruction, disillusionment with the Empire. Her own fall from grace due to her poor performance may play a role in this, as well as the Empire not living up to the high standards she has. Their failure to take prisoners from Anto Kreegyr's group may be step 1 in this, but I wonder if eventually she'll learn of the Death Star and that won't somehow put her over the edge.
posted by timdiggerm at 11:31 AM on November 30, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by timdiggerm at 11:31 AM on November 30, 2022 [1 favorite]
From the interview with Denise linked above:
That level of absolute conviction, Gough argues, pitches Dedra as more the antithesis of Stellan Skarsgard’s shadowy Rebel organiser Luthen Rael...than that of Andor’s title character.
Well, yes; for the whole season it's been clear to me that the narrative pairs are Dedra - Luthen and Andor - Karn in terms of the characters. Both Dedra and Luthen are deep converts to their cause, to the point that both will do horrible things to advance them whereas both Andor and Karn have relatively rootless periods during the season where they are finding their cause.
posted by nubs at 12:30 PM on November 30, 2022 [3 favorites]
That level of absolute conviction, Gough argues, pitches Dedra as more the antithesis of Stellan Skarsgard’s shadowy Rebel organiser Luthen Rael...than that of Andor’s title character.
Well, yes; for the whole season it's been clear to me that the narrative pairs are Dedra - Luthen and Andor - Karn in terms of the characters. Both Dedra and Luthen are deep converts to their cause, to the point that both will do horrible things to advance them whereas both Andor and Karn have relatively rootless periods during the season where they are finding their cause.
posted by nubs at 12:30 PM on November 30, 2022 [3 favorites]
I might be more inclined to argue that Karn started out hopeless devoted to the Empire and remained that way throughout. He blurts out during a job interview that he intends to fully clear his name, as if Steve Middlemanagement gives a shit. In fact I don't buy Karn having some weird stalkery romantic interest in Meero; he sees her as a path back to the good graces of his beloved Empire which has treated him so callously.
posted by axiom at 10:18 PM on November 30, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by axiom at 10:18 PM on November 30, 2022 [1 favorite]
Is Dedra committed to the Empire, or is she committed to "good" and competent governance?
posted by timdiggerm at 4:45 AM on December 1, 2022
posted by timdiggerm at 4:45 AM on December 1, 2022
I second the idea that S2 will feature Dedra's conversion
My own expectation is almost the opposite -- I think they're going to do a compare and contrast between Luthen/Cassian and Dedra/Syril. Luthen is going to take Cassian in and bring him closer to the real decision-making in a more or less sincere way. Dedra is going to realize that Syril will make a good pawn and decide to straight-up use and discard him.
I think part of season 2 is going to be Dedra sending Syril as a mole to the rebels, and it's going to work for a while. Syril and Cassian will interact or go on a mission even and at some point Cassian is going to have to kill his friend Syril. Maybe even with a line about how ashamed his mother will be.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 6:16 AM on December 1, 2022 [4 favorites]
My own expectation is almost the opposite -- I think they're going to do a compare and contrast between Luthen/Cassian and Dedra/Syril. Luthen is going to take Cassian in and bring him closer to the real decision-making in a more or less sincere way. Dedra is going to realize that Syril will make a good pawn and decide to straight-up use and discard him.
I think part of season 2 is going to be Dedra sending Syril as a mole to the rebels, and it's going to work for a while. Syril and Cassian will interact or go on a mission even and at some point Cassian is going to have to kill his friend Syril. Maybe even with a line about how ashamed his mother will be.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 6:16 AM on December 1, 2022 [4 favorites]
Interview with Denise Gough (Dedra Meero) - including a mention that Maarva's speech originally ended "Fuck the Empire!"
Hah, that's the only thing that could've made this episode better! (Especially since Maarva was self-aware enough to note in her rousing speech that it's all well and good for a ghost to tell someone to fight the Empire, but living persons might have different priorities.)
Re: Dedra's motivations, I guess we don't really know enough about her yet to hazard a guess. But I was sort of thinking about her like a high-achieving McKinsey recruit, someone who wants a job that is supposed to be influential and respectable and interesting. She doesn't seem like the sort of person who recognizes the value of human lives as anything but another part of the puzzle. She'll torture someone if they might turn up something useful, and execute them quickly enough once they've been rung clean. She's a Hermione Granger type who won't get disillusioned unless it becomes clear that the Empire is ignoring her when she's right about things. (I can see her getting sick of her ops getting ruined from things like the need to "wash the taste of Aldhani from the Emperor's mouth." Actually, it would be funny if the only whiff of space wizard in the whole show is Dedra one day meeting Palpatine.)
posted by grandiloquiet at 9:39 AM on December 1, 2022 [3 favorites]
Hah, that's the only thing that could've made this episode better! (Especially since Maarva was self-aware enough to note in her rousing speech that it's all well and good for a ghost to tell someone to fight the Empire, but living persons might have different priorities.)
Re: Dedra's motivations, I guess we don't really know enough about her yet to hazard a guess. But I was sort of thinking about her like a high-achieving McKinsey recruit, someone who wants a job that is supposed to be influential and respectable and interesting. She doesn't seem like the sort of person who recognizes the value of human lives as anything but another part of the puzzle. She'll torture someone if they might turn up something useful, and execute them quickly enough once they've been rung clean. She's a Hermione Granger type who won't get disillusioned unless it becomes clear that the Empire is ignoring her when she's right about things. (I can see her getting sick of her ops getting ruined from things like the need to "wash the taste of Aldhani from the Emperor's mouth." Actually, it would be funny if the only whiff of space wizard in the whole show is Dedra one day meeting Palpatine.)
posted by grandiloquiet at 9:39 AM on December 1, 2022 [3 favorites]
I think maybe I prefer the original intro music from 1975 yt
oh the way they synced up the beat of the song with the time wrangler!
she (Denise Gough) is incredibly pretty in real life, but here they give her the slicked down, pulled tight hair, permanently turned down, grimacing mouth, sickly gray cast to her skin, and these deep dark circles under her eyes
There's a scene where she takes some pills before getting down to work. I think maybe Meero doesn't sleep much.
They gave her aide the same sunken eye makeup. Some of the other ISB spooks have that look too.
posted by Sauce Trough at 12:06 PM on December 1, 2022 [5 favorites]
oh the way they synced up the beat of the song with the time wrangler!
she (Denise Gough) is incredibly pretty in real life, but here they give her the slicked down, pulled tight hair, permanently turned down, grimacing mouth, sickly gray cast to her skin, and these deep dark circles under her eyes
There's a scene where she takes some pills before getting down to work. I think maybe Meero doesn't sleep much.
They gave her aide the same sunken eye makeup. Some of the other ISB spooks have that look too.
posted by Sauce Trough at 12:06 PM on December 1, 2022 [5 favorites]
8 films recommended if you liked Star Wars: Andor.
posted by brainwane at 6:24 PM on December 1, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by brainwane at 6:24 PM on December 1, 2022 [2 favorites]
That list has a gaping Ronin-shaped hole in it.
posted by The Tensor at 10:45 PM on December 1, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by The Tensor at 10:45 PM on December 1, 2022 [5 favorites]
Another character makeup / costuming detail that these guys got right: the chameleon nature of the upper-class rebels.
We see Luthen explicitly transforming himself from Rebel mode to garrulous Coruscant merchant mode early in the series, and Vel goes through a similar transformation when she goes from Coruscant to Ferrix: on Coruscant she is another blazingly beautiful and elegant niece of privilege, but on Ferrix she is exactly the right level of grubby and fits in pretty effortlessly.
also loved how Meero's Ferrix "incognito" mode with the deep hood was so spooky: in the distant shot where we see her and her hencher walking the Ferrix streets. With her stark white face and dark eyes shining out from the blackness of the hood, she looks like a Studio Ghibli ghost or a fucking nazgul.
posted by Sauce Trough at 10:46 AM on December 2, 2022 [9 favorites]
We see Luthen explicitly transforming himself from Rebel mode to garrulous Coruscant merchant mode early in the series, and Vel goes through a similar transformation when she goes from Coruscant to Ferrix: on Coruscant she is another blazingly beautiful and elegant niece of privilege, but on Ferrix she is exactly the right level of grubby and fits in pretty effortlessly.
also loved how Meero's Ferrix "incognito" mode with the deep hood was so spooky: in the distant shot where we see her and her hencher walking the Ferrix streets. With her stark white face and dark eyes shining out from the blackness of the hood, she looks like a Studio Ghibli ghost or a fucking nazgul.
posted by Sauce Trough at 10:46 AM on December 2, 2022 [9 favorites]
We see Luthen explicitly transforming himself from Rebel mode to garrulous Coruscant merchant mode early in the series
On rewatch also I noticed how Skarsgård subtly changes his voice and presentation in the scenes in which Mon visits Luthen's shop. When he's facing towards the front of the shop, and thus visible to Mon's ISB-spy driver, he's fully in merchant mode, all smiles and soft voice and courtesy; when his back is to the windows he's a little more in rebel mode, craggier and rougher-voiced.
(Also, very strongly recommend rewatching; I think the first few episodes land a lot better when you have trust that they are going somewhere, and it's also a different experience watching the episodes in each arc -- the introduction, the heist, the prison, the funeral -- back-to-back rather than week-at-a-time.)
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 11:29 AM on December 2, 2022 [5 favorites]
On rewatch also I noticed how Skarsgård subtly changes his voice and presentation in the scenes in which Mon visits Luthen's shop. When he's facing towards the front of the shop, and thus visible to Mon's ISB-spy driver, he's fully in merchant mode, all smiles and soft voice and courtesy; when his back is to the windows he's a little more in rebel mode, craggier and rougher-voiced.
(Also, very strongly recommend rewatching; I think the first few episodes land a lot better when you have trust that they are going somewhere, and it's also a different experience watching the episodes in each arc -- the introduction, the heist, the prison, the funeral -- back-to-back rather than week-at-a-time.)
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 11:29 AM on December 2, 2022 [5 favorites]
I might be more inclined to argue that Karn started out hopeless devoted to the Empire and remained that way throughout. He blurts out during a job interview that he intends to fully clear his name, as if Steve Middlemanagement gives a shit. In fact I don't buy Karn having some weird stalkery romantic interest in Meero; he sees her as a path back to the good graces of his beloved Empire which has treated him so callously.
Maybe it's better to say that both Andor and Karn start the season as still being malleable characters; Andor gets shaped into a Rebel leader, whereas Karn - who I don't think is devoted to Empire as much as to an image of himself as someone with status and the Empire being the route to that - latches onto Meera as both that possible saviour and also as an idealized (possibly not sexualized, we as the audience are just primed to read it that way) persona that he wants to be.
Karn was fascinating because he could have gone so many directions this season; Andor could have as well, but we know where his journey ends, so Karn was the wild card. Both men have strong mother figures, both grew up in difficult circumstances, both make some difficult choices this season - but Andor has community, and Karn doesn't. I feel like there's a whole lot to unpack in the similarities between these two.
I think part of season 2 is going to be Dedra sending Syril as a mole to the rebels, and it's going to work for a while. Syril and Cassian will interact or go on a mission even and at some point Cassian is going to have to kill his friend Syril.
I've heard the idea of Syril as a mole in a Rebel cell in a few places, and I just don't see it working. Syril Karn is not an undercover operative; he has no ability to fake the emotions or sincerity that would be needed. Karn is not going to put up with hiding in a cave with Saw; Karn wants status and respect that he will not get as an unknown new recruit. Also, I went back and rewatched the Alhani arc as one piece recently, and in retrospect the interactions between Andor and Skeen are fascinating; everything is actually the two of them probing for more information about the other. For example, Andor's reaction to the story of Skeen's brother is "What kind of farm?", not any expression of sympathy. He's reading Skeen's response to a question that is a bit unexpected, but not a direct challenge. All of which is me going a long way to say that I think Andor would spot Karn as a mole in a matter of seconds.
posted by nubs at 2:28 PM on December 2, 2022 [14 favorites]
Maybe it's better to say that both Andor and Karn start the season as still being malleable characters; Andor gets shaped into a Rebel leader, whereas Karn - who I don't think is devoted to Empire as much as to an image of himself as someone with status and the Empire being the route to that - latches onto Meera as both that possible saviour and also as an idealized (possibly not sexualized, we as the audience are just primed to read it that way) persona that he wants to be.
Karn was fascinating because he could have gone so many directions this season; Andor could have as well, but we know where his journey ends, so Karn was the wild card. Both men have strong mother figures, both grew up in difficult circumstances, both make some difficult choices this season - but Andor has community, and Karn doesn't. I feel like there's a whole lot to unpack in the similarities between these two.
I think part of season 2 is going to be Dedra sending Syril as a mole to the rebels, and it's going to work for a while. Syril and Cassian will interact or go on a mission even and at some point Cassian is going to have to kill his friend Syril.
I've heard the idea of Syril as a mole in a Rebel cell in a few places, and I just don't see it working. Syril Karn is not an undercover operative; he has no ability to fake the emotions or sincerity that would be needed. Karn is not going to put up with hiding in a cave with Saw; Karn wants status and respect that he will not get as an unknown new recruit. Also, I went back and rewatched the Alhani arc as one piece recently, and in retrospect the interactions between Andor and Skeen are fascinating; everything is actually the two of them probing for more information about the other. For example, Andor's reaction to the story of Skeen's brother is "What kind of farm?", not any expression of sympathy. He's reading Skeen's response to a question that is a bit unexpected, but not a direct challenge. All of which is me going a long way to say that I think Andor would spot Karn as a mole in a matter of seconds.
posted by nubs at 2:28 PM on December 2, 2022 [14 favorites]
yeah, put me down on team "Syril is not a rebel infiltrator."
Dude is way too high-strung and single-minded to be a smooth operator. You think he could have convincingly embedded with the rebels on Aldhani, with all their conversations and ruminations about The Cause?
Vel: Everyone has their own rebellion.
Syril: DID I EVER TELL YOU THE STORY OF HOW AN HONEST COP SUFFERED BECAUSE HE WAS NOT FREE TO RELENTLESSLY PURSUE HIS WHITE WHALE
Nemik: Freedom is a pure idea. It occurs spontaneously and without instruction.
Syril: HEY REBELS LET'S DO THIS CRIME! I AM GOING TO CLEAR MY NAME YOU KNOW
posted by Sauce Trough at 4:05 PM on December 2, 2022 [12 favorites]
Dude is way too high-strung and single-minded to be a smooth operator. You think he could have convincingly embedded with the rebels on Aldhani, with all their conversations and ruminations about The Cause?
Vel: Everyone has their own rebellion.
Syril: DID I EVER TELL YOU THE STORY OF HOW AN HONEST COP SUFFERED BECAUSE HE WAS NOT FREE TO RELENTLESSLY PURSUE HIS WHITE WHALE
Nemik: Freedom is a pure idea. It occurs spontaneously and without instruction.
Syril: HEY REBELS LET'S DO THIS CRIME! I AM GOING TO CLEAR MY NAME YOU KNOW
posted by Sauce Trough at 4:05 PM on December 2, 2022 [12 favorites]
on the other hand, if Syril had learned the right lessons from his mom he could have grown up to be a great spy. A psychologically abusive mom can be a great duplicity homeschooler. but instead of figuring out the semitruths that would placate his mom, Karn just wound up as a surly-snarky shiteater.
it seems like one could get up to comedy with novelty twitters in Karn's name ... like the amazing one that Alexandra Petri had for Kylo Ren.
damn I cannot shut up about this show.
posted by Sauce Trough at 4:31 PM on December 2, 2022 [1 favorite]
it seems like one could get up to comedy with novelty twitters in Karn's name ... like the amazing one that Alexandra Petri had for Kylo Ren.
damn I cannot shut up about this show.
posted by Sauce Trough at 4:31 PM on December 2, 2022 [1 favorite]
Andor has community, and Karn doesn't.
Nice point nubs! It takes a village...
posted by domdib at 7:06 AM on December 3, 2022 [1 favorite]
Nice point nubs! It takes a village...
posted by domdib at 7:06 AM on December 3, 2022 [1 favorite]
Did Luthen ever get his crystal back? Cassian gave it to Vel and twice Vel wanted to meet with Luthen but got the assistant instead, and I don't think she gave her the crystal in those scenes. Vel and Luthen only meet... I think in the last episode on Ferrix right before the funeral & chaos. Did Vel just keep it because he's annoyed with him?
posted by brendano at 8:47 PM on December 3, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by brendano at 8:47 PM on December 3, 2022 [1 favorite]
Good question brendano; I'm still wondering what happened to the hostages from the Aldhani heist.
posted by nubs at 9:52 PM on December 3, 2022
posted by nubs at 9:52 PM on December 3, 2022
I'm still wondering what happened to the hostages from the Aldhani heist.
Oh, I'm absolutely sure that Cinta killed them.
But I too wonder what happened to that sky-crystal.
posted by suelac at 10:44 PM on December 3, 2022 [7 favorites]
Oh, I'm absolutely sure that Cinta killed them.
But I too wonder what happened to that sky-crystal.
posted by suelac at 10:44 PM on December 3, 2022 [7 favorites]
When the music changed in the funeral parade, I got the feeling of a nod to the accordion sequence in Holy Motors.
posted by Mister Moofoo at 9:23 AM on December 9, 2022
posted by Mister Moofoo at 9:23 AM on December 9, 2022
At work today, I had to spend some time in our warehouse space where a small crew was setting up some shelving. That involved using some hammers on the metal cross braces; at times I felt I was in Ferrix with the neighbourhood warning system going off.
posted by nubs at 4:33 PM on December 9, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by nubs at 4:33 PM on December 9, 2022 [4 favorites]
“She told me you’d say all this…..
Tell Him: None of this is his fault - it was already burning, He’s just the first spark of the fire
Tell Him : He knows everything he needs to know and feels everything he needs to feel,
and when the day comes, and those two pull together, he will be an unstoppable force for good.
Tell Him: …. …… I love him more than anything he could ever do wrong”
posted by lalochezia at 8:29 PM on December 9, 2022 [5 favorites]
Tell Him: None of this is his fault - it was already burning, He’s just the first spark of the fire
Tell Him : He knows everything he needs to know and feels everything he needs to feel,
and when the day comes, and those two pull together, he will be an unstoppable force for good.
Tell Him: …. …… I love him more than anything he could ever do wrong”
posted by lalochezia at 8:29 PM on December 9, 2022 [5 favorites]
The music. Oh the music at the funeral parade. My heart.
posted by lalochezia at 8:31 PM on December 9, 2022 [8 favorites]
posted by lalochezia at 8:31 PM on December 9, 2022 [8 favorites]
I don’t know if this has been said before, but it occurred to me that it is totally fitting that a show with this much moral ambiguity is called Andor (And/or).
posted by gauche at 9:10 AM on December 11, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by gauche at 9:10 AM on December 11, 2022 [6 favorites]
It's wonderful that the series got a Critics Choice nomin, and Diego got one and a Golden Globe nomin; but it's a shame that so many other fine performances, from Stellan, Fiona, Denise, Genevieve (to name a few!) didn't get a nod. I hope the Emmys does a little better!
posted by domdib at 9:09 AM on December 12, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by domdib at 9:09 AM on December 12, 2022 [5 favorites]
The funeral procession to me felt like the most realistic scene I've ever experienced in anything Star Wars. The vibe was completely transporting me back to a couple of cities/neighborhoods I've lived in and some of their rituals.
Also, I'd appreciate it if we could keep this thread going by posting Andor-related content/adaptations to bridge the gap until season 2! Here is Star Wars: Andor main title theme covered by Guzheng. (YouTube link)
posted by mikepop at 6:57 AM on December 15, 2022 [5 favorites]
Also, I'd appreciate it if we could keep this thread going by posting Andor-related content/adaptations to bridge the gap until season 2! Here is Star Wars: Andor main title theme covered by Guzheng. (YouTube link)
posted by mikepop at 6:57 AM on December 15, 2022 [5 favorites]
On the same line, volume 3 of the Andor soundtrack dropped on Friday. Grab a tissue and listen to, "My name is Kino Loy," before grabbing a brick and heading to the back half of the album.
I would also recommend, if you haven't yet, reading Alexander Freed's Rogue One novelization. He's a great writer and the novelization is one of the best of the new era.
posted by Atreides at 12:55 PM on December 15, 2022 [1 favorite]
I would also recommend, if you haven't yet, reading Alexander Freed's Rogue One novelization. He's a great writer and the novelization is one of the best of the new era.
posted by Atreides at 12:55 PM on December 15, 2022 [1 favorite]
A More Civilized Age 53: Swapping Feelings, Theories, and Hats with Adam Serwer
As promised, the Autumn of Andor continues! Today, we've got the first of three guest-filled episodes coming to you this December. We are joined by Adam Serwer, author of The Cruelty Is the Point: The Past, Present, and Future of Trump's America, staff writer at The Atlantic, and life long Star Wars fan.posted by nubs at 8:36 AM on December 22, 2022 [6 favorites]
We share and contextualize our final feelings on Andor, explore the tensions and consonances between the Lucas, Filoni, and Gilroy visions of the franchise, and (if you are very patient) try to unravel whatever the hell was up with that Karn/Mosk hat swap.
A More Civilized Age 54: Exploring the Music of Andor with Kirk Hamilton
In our final episode of the year, we're joined by Kirk Hamilton of Strong Songs, Triple Click, and the Kotaku review of Destiny 2 fame. (No, really, it's one of my all time favorite reviews. Go read it!)posted by nubs at 2:56 PM on December 26, 2022 [5 favorites]
Over on Strong Songs, Kirk recently dove headfirst into Nicholas Britell's excellent Andor score. Today, he's joining us to talk through music's place in the show and in Star Wars in general. Join us as we unpack the differences between Britell, John Williams, and the other musicians who've worked in the franchise. And don't worry, we sneak in one more theory about Cass' sister for good measure!
Finally got through this to the end and loved it! SO much good in it.
I love how they set things up for the next season. I didn't know whether there was going to be another season until after watching the previous episode, but enough is already in place that even if there wasn't one, I feel mostly satisfied. Mostly because Dierdre ending up being trampled ignominiously would have been an incredibly satisfying end for her character. She was so confident and prepared for everything, and such a great villain from a competence-porn perspective, that to have her death come from being unable to anticipate the literal facts on the ground would have been perfect (and awful). But I love that this means we'll have her back. And her saying "I suppose this means I have to say thank you," to Syril - or whatever the quote was - I love that it wasn't actually "thank you." She's not even truly grateful to him.
My gut is that he just wants her to promote him back into the ISB, and she just wants him to go away because he's eyewitness proof of her failure. So she'll either send him away again for following her, or give him some thankless ISB job and then set him up as a fall guy - and he'll turn rebel because he finally realizes the Empire spits out the rules-players as much as it does the rule-breakers.
I loved/hated that Mon Mothma ended up capitulating and letting Leida meet the gangster's son - it's awful, but it can go so many ways. I can totally see Leida wanting the match and becoming a powerful thorn in everyone's side, or her becoming a hero, or Mon realizing definitively that it was the worst possible bargain and what it might do to her. For me one of the best / worst things about the series is that there are some characters that you already know survive and what their status will be, while the plot itself suggests so many alternative negative outcomes for them - it's like a roller coaster ride. Why do I still worry about Mon Mothma all the time? I know she makes it to A New Hope intact! But I keep thinking she won't!
My only real problem with the series now that we've reached the end - now that I came through to the end loving all of the characters and worldbuilding and plotting - was that it made the opening scene feel even more gratuitous than it did when I first watched it. Looking back, it just feels like an unnecessary, misogynous macguffin. There were tons of ways to start him off in the wrong place at the wrong time - why a brothel? Why couldn't he be looking for his sister in a labor camp, or a drug den, or some other hive of villainy? And why was he looking for his sister at all if we never follow up with her because oh right, she's dead and so is everyone else on Kenari? Surely he's been told that before. Either he had a tip about her specifically, and that should be a continuing plot point, or they shouldn't have included it. I suppose they could call it back next season as some way to connect him to Jyn, but they won't meet until Rogue One, so I doubt it. But that was the only false note for me the whole way through.
posted by Mchelly at 9:44 AM on January 16, 2023 [4 favorites]
I love how they set things up for the next season. I didn't know whether there was going to be another season until after watching the previous episode, but enough is already in place that even if there wasn't one, I feel mostly satisfied. Mostly because Dierdre ending up being trampled ignominiously would have been an incredibly satisfying end for her character. She was so confident and prepared for everything, and such a great villain from a competence-porn perspective, that to have her death come from being unable to anticipate the literal facts on the ground would have been perfect (and awful). But I love that this means we'll have her back. And her saying "I suppose this means I have to say thank you," to Syril - or whatever the quote was - I love that it wasn't actually "thank you." She's not even truly grateful to him.
My gut is that he just wants her to promote him back into the ISB, and she just wants him to go away because he's eyewitness proof of her failure. So she'll either send him away again for following her, or give him some thankless ISB job and then set him up as a fall guy - and he'll turn rebel because he finally realizes the Empire spits out the rules-players as much as it does the rule-breakers.
I loved/hated that Mon Mothma ended up capitulating and letting Leida meet the gangster's son - it's awful, but it can go so many ways. I can totally see Leida wanting the match and becoming a powerful thorn in everyone's side, or her becoming a hero, or Mon realizing definitively that it was the worst possible bargain and what it might do to her. For me one of the best / worst things about the series is that there are some characters that you already know survive and what their status will be, while the plot itself suggests so many alternative negative outcomes for them - it's like a roller coaster ride. Why do I still worry about Mon Mothma all the time? I know she makes it to A New Hope intact! But I keep thinking she won't!
My only real problem with the series now that we've reached the end - now that I came through to the end loving all of the characters and worldbuilding and plotting - was that it made the opening scene feel even more gratuitous than it did when I first watched it. Looking back, it just feels like an unnecessary, misogynous macguffin. There were tons of ways to start him off in the wrong place at the wrong time - why a brothel? Why couldn't he be looking for his sister in a labor camp, or a drug den, or some other hive of villainy? And why was he looking for his sister at all if we never follow up with her because oh right, she's dead and so is everyone else on Kenari? Surely he's been told that before. Either he had a tip about her specifically, and that should be a continuing plot point, or they shouldn't have included it. I suppose they could call it back next season as some way to connect him to Jyn, but they won't meet until Rogue One, so I doubt it. But that was the only false note for me the whole way through.
posted by Mchelly at 9:44 AM on January 16, 2023 [4 favorites]
If it helps, I believe we've already been promised one more season of Andor. Though, it will really feel like three or four films, as the second season is going to cover the remaining years between season one and Rogue One. I expect every three episode arc will cover a year.
A number of people are thinking that Luthen's assistant, Kleya Marki, might possibly be Andor's sister. So instead of it being a pointless maguffin, it's something that will come back around as the show goes forward. I can't remember if there's been clues or just the Star Wars fandom's instinct to see someone with the right hair color, eye color, and scream a conclusion.
The level of anxiety over things like Mothma getting picked up by the iSB, when we clearly know she won't, is a major credit to the writers and creators.
I need to start a rewatch soon!
posted by Atreides at 1:18 PM on January 17, 2023 [2 favorites]
A number of people are thinking that Luthen's assistant, Kleya Marki, might possibly be Andor's sister. So instead of it being a pointless maguffin, it's something that will come back around as the show goes forward. I can't remember if there's been clues or just the Star Wars fandom's instinct to see someone with the right hair color, eye color, and scream a conclusion.
The level of anxiety over things like Mothma getting picked up by the iSB, when we clearly know she won't, is a major credit to the writers and creators.
I need to start a rewatch soon!
posted by Atreides at 1:18 PM on January 17, 2023 [2 favorites]
What I like about the post-credits scene that I think hasn't been explicitly pointed out already is that throughout the show Luthen is trying to goad the Empire into cracking down. So he's manipulating things with the idea that oppression breeds rebellion. Then we see in the post-credits scene that it goes both ways and the acts of rebellion are also building oppression (literally). Not that people deserve oppression for rebelling or anything, just kind of a mirror being held up and showing it's a complex system at work where both sides are responding to each other.
I hope that Luthen is not force sensitive and that Kleya is not Andor's sister. Surprise family members and space wizards have been done enough in Star Wars. My hope is Luthen's deal is he was the Hank Hill of lightsabers (and lightsaber accessories), hence the kyber crystals, the ship lightsaber thing, and the vow.
posted by Nec_variat_lux_fracta_colorem at 3:31 PM on January 17, 2023 [5 favorites]
I hope that Luthen is not force sensitive and that Kleya is not Andor's sister. Surprise family members and space wizards have been done enough in Star Wars. My hope is Luthen's deal is he was the Hank Hill of lightsabers (and lightsaber accessories), hence the kyber crystals, the ship lightsaber thing, and the vow.
posted by Nec_variat_lux_fracta_colorem at 3:31 PM on January 17, 2023 [5 favorites]
I've seen a lot of post-credit scene discourse, but this is the most fascinating take. Thank you for sharing!
I don't think Luthen is Force Sensitive, though I had seen that floated. Arguably, depending on your math, Order 66 occurred at the start of the time frame that Luthen shares in the penultimate episode about what started him down the path (15 or so years?). But, the idea of a padawan/Jedi/whatever chilling in Coruscant as an antiquities dealer with ISB aware of his identity is a bit of a stretch. I think the skykyber crystal was either a reflection on the Jedi, the old days of the Republic, or, at worse, a handy thing to keep on your person that's worth a lot of money if you need credits in a pinch (Exactly how he uses it with Cassian). And also, like you noted, he's a collector - granted lightsabers are supposed to be illegal for anyone to own in the time of the Empire.
The sister thing it just feels too much of a hanging issue. If there's anything Star Wars specializes in is coincidences of the same people all bumping into each other all the time. Heh. I don't think it will be Luthen's assistant, but I could see it being dangled in front of him by the ISB or someone, her fate, her location, identity, etc., as an attempt to break him for information if he's captured sometime next season.
posted by Atreides at 8:07 AM on January 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
I don't think Luthen is Force Sensitive, though I had seen that floated. Arguably, depending on your math, Order 66 occurred at the start of the time frame that Luthen shares in the penultimate episode about what started him down the path (15 or so years?). But, the idea of a padawan/Jedi/whatever chilling in Coruscant as an antiquities dealer with ISB aware of his identity is a bit of a stretch. I think the skykyber crystal was either a reflection on the Jedi, the old days of the Republic, or, at worse, a handy thing to keep on your person that's worth a lot of money if you need credits in a pinch (Exactly how he uses it with Cassian). And also, like you noted, he's a collector - granted lightsabers are supposed to be illegal for anyone to own in the time of the Empire.
The sister thing it just feels too much of a hanging issue. If there's anything Star Wars specializes in is coincidences of the same people all bumping into each other all the time. Heh. I don't think it will be Luthen's assistant, but I could see it being dangled in front of him by the ISB or someone, her fate, her location, identity, etc., as an attempt to break him for information if he's captured sometime next season.
posted by Atreides at 8:07 AM on January 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
I think his sister will come up one more time before the series ends and like you suggested, be a test of Cassian's commitment to the cause.
posted by Nec_variat_lux_fracta_colorem at 3:25 PM on January 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Nec_variat_lux_fracta_colorem at 3:25 PM on January 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
Holy cow we just finished. Just stunningly good.
Favorite bits: no cutesy one-off aliens or space magic. I'd watch a show on Mon Mothma's rise to the Senate (House of Space Cards), Luthen's story, I'd definitely watch a short-arc series on Kino Loy. In closing, more please.
posted by jquinby at 7:02 AM on January 21, 2023 [4 favorites]
Favorite bits: no cutesy one-off aliens or space magic. I'd watch a show on Mon Mothma's rise to the Senate (House of Space Cards), Luthen's story, I'd definitely watch a short-arc series on Kino Loy. In closing, more please.
posted by jquinby at 7:02 AM on January 21, 2023 [4 favorites]
Not sure if this has been posted elsewhere, but a recent (and lovely) Zoom round-table with Adria Arjona, Denise Gough, Genevieve O'Reilly and Fiona Shaw.
posted by Grangousier at 1:12 PM on January 22, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by Grangousier at 1:12 PM on January 22, 2023 [6 favorites]
just an interesting juxtaposition with casablanca:
"Casablanca is a propaganda film," says Noah Isenberg, author of We'll Always Have Casablanca. "It's a propaganda film because the American public were not fully convinced of the moral imperative of fighting this war; and the message is, this is a fight worth fighting."posted by kliuless at 2:56 AM on January 24, 2023 [3 favorites]
The character arc of Rick Blaine, played by Bogart, is a clear metaphor for the United States and foreign policy. Rick begins the film as an isolationist, telling Ilsa: "I'm not fighting for anything anymore, except myself. I'm the only cause I'm interested in."
But as the story progresses, cracks appear in that façade. In the scene with Dantine, for example, Rick's aid of young refugees is a sign he is not as cold-hearted as he leads people to believe.
Later in the famous scene of the singing of La Marseillaise, Rick gives permission for the band to play the song of the resistance...
so maybe after andor disney could go further with endor: an r-rated treatment of the ewoks as the viet cong?
posted by kliuless at 5:11 AM on January 26, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by kliuless at 5:11 AM on January 26, 2023 [4 favorites]
The funeral procession to me felt like the most realistic scene I've ever experienced in anything Star Wars.
I remember watching the first big fight in Rogue One in the theaters and thinking, 'holy shit, they're doing asymmetric urban warfare in a star wars movie?!' It was like a moment from the Iraq war.
---
The funeral was gorgeous, amazing filmmaking. The converging matching bands, the amateur players, the dusty oversized red formal coats, the change in the music. Just stunning.
And the bricks... Cassian taking a moment with his father's brick... This city is made of its people, keeping out the weather, holding the roofs over their heads, holding each other up.
Fuck the Empire, indeed.
posted by kaibutsu at 12:31 AM on February 9, 2023 [8 favorites]
I remember watching the first big fight in Rogue One in the theaters and thinking, 'holy shit, they're doing asymmetric urban warfare in a star wars movie?!' It was like a moment from the Iraq war.
---
The funeral was gorgeous, amazing filmmaking. The converging matching bands, the amateur players, the dusty oversized red formal coats, the change in the music. Just stunning.
And the bricks... Cassian taking a moment with his father's brick... This city is made of its people, keeping out the weather, holding the roofs over their heads, holding each other up.
Fuck the Empire, indeed.
posted by kaibutsu at 12:31 AM on February 9, 2023 [8 favorites]
The level of anxiety over things like Mothma getting picked up by the iSB, when we clearly know she won't, is a major credit to the writers and creators.
we know no such thing!
we don't know any of the peril or woes that the people who survived till Rogue One started underwent. we know they survived, but that's it.
posted by lalochezia at 4:28 PM on February 25, 2023 [7 favorites]
So we never found out whether Bix told Meera anything under torture? I guess all she really knew was that he came back shortly after the Aldhani heist.
posted by skewed at 9:30 PM on March 28, 2023
posted by skewed at 9:30 PM on March 28, 2023
It's inferred that she broke under the torture, but didn't know/give Luthen's name - just that he existed as someone she worked with. So yah, not a lot of info to spill.
posted by Atreides at 2:20 PM on March 29, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by Atreides at 2:20 PM on March 29, 2023 [3 favorites]
Yeah I think they built up that particular method of torture enough that it's assumed no-one can withstand it - or at least not someone off the street untrained in resisting interrogation.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 7:24 AM on March 30, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by EndsOfInvention at 7:24 AM on March 30, 2023 [1 favorite]
To me, the implication of the scene with Bix being asked to identify Kreeger as her contact is that she was broken by the torture method to the point of not being able to answer; particularly given that she really only starts to display any responsiveness in this episode when the music starts. I would have loved an indication that she had been able to give some false information or lie (as a way of showing that torture is unreliable), but I'm ok with them leaving it as Bix was rendered non-useful for the purpose of answering their questions, but that Maarva's funeral march and Andor could start to bring her home.
posted by nubs at 8:09 AM on March 30, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by nubs at 8:09 AM on March 30, 2023 [3 favorites]
A well-deserved Emmy nomination for the show but I feel like several of the actors should have received individual noms, especially Andy Serkis (as he presumably won't be back for Season 2).
posted by orrnyereg at 6:00 AM on July 13, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by orrnyereg at 6:00 AM on July 13, 2023 [3 favorites]
I certainly think that more individual actor nominations would have been appropriate for Andor, but does anyone who has seen Succession and/or The White Lotus have any thoughts on whether they deserve such a large number of actor nominations, relative to other shows? And are the categories limited to a number of nominees? - because fine acting is fine acting.
posted by domdib at 12:48 PM on July 14, 2023
posted by domdib at 12:48 PM on July 14, 2023
Also, no nomination for Fantasy/Sci Fi costumes :-( Girl, did you see Mon Mothma's dresses??? And none for Production Design????
posted by domdib at 1:00 PM on July 14, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by domdib at 1:00 PM on July 14, 2023 [5 favorites]
Full list of Andor Emmy nominations:
Drama Series
Writing For A Drama Series
Directing For A Drama Series
Visual Effects
Sound Editing
Original Main Title Theme
Music Composition
Cinematography
Also, no nomination for Fantasy/Sci Fi costumes
Mando and Obi-Wan(!) did get noms - I think Andor definitely should have beat Obi-Wan here.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 2:47 PM on July 14, 2023 [3 favorites]
Drama Series
Writing For A Drama Series
Directing For A Drama Series
Visual Effects
Sound Editing
Original Main Title Theme
Music Composition
Cinematography
Also, no nomination for Fantasy/Sci Fi costumes
Mando and Obi-Wan(!) did get noms - I think Andor definitely should have beat Obi-Wan here.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 2:47 PM on July 14, 2023 [3 favorites]
Tony Gilroy was interviewed by Maggie Lovitt for Collider because of the Emmy nominations. The whole thing’s worth reading, but I want to highlight this bit here:
What you say about the community of a show is so accurate. Before I did all this, I worked in the film business and TV, and I was a stand-in on a TV show. I haven't worked on it in three years, but I still have a great group chat with all of my other second team members, and we share all of our victories and wins, so I think about that whenever shows are nominated for stuff. It's a whole community. It's a whole family of people, regardless of who's nominated. Everybody is nominated together in a sense.posted by Kattullus at 2:20 PM on July 15, 2023 [9 favorites]
GILROY: It always sounds like bullshit when you hear somebody say, “I wanna thank everybody,” but, like, there are 1400 people in the Andor community each year making the show. Our whole ethic has been to try to make everybody feel like a filmmaker and make everybody feel like they're part of something ambitious and rational and cool, and that there's a place for them to make a contribution. That's not some bullshit thing. That's what we really try to do, and you reap the benefits of that.
Look, I mean, not to transition too hard, but that's what's going on right now with the labor problems in Hollywood. You have this massive community of creative people in all departments everywhere. They've spent their lives, and some of them are second and third generation, some of them are just brand new; whatever it is, they've all come there, and they're all part of this thing. Sadly, we're in the place right now where the unions are the people that are trying to preserve this industry, this amazing American industry that grew up this incredible system that we have. And who's trying to protect it? It's left to the unions to try to protect this industry. That sense of community, I think, is the thing that will drive a successful conclusion to all this labor trouble. Because I think in the end, everyone realizes this is the end of the line. If we don't do it now, we can't get it done. But that's what it's for.
And it's really hard– You know, people ask, and said, “Oh, well, you're leaving your show,” and, “You're walking away.” It's really hard to make a show that's about community and about solidarity and about doing the right thing and taking care of each other, and what happens when you don't. It's really hard to do that and not support it.
Absolutely. It's hard to ignore the irony of the Emmy nominations this morning with the potential SAG strike this evening. It's so profound. I looked at Twitter right after the nominations were announced, and it was so cool to see so many people resonating with “One Way Out” being nominated for Best Writing when that feels so relevant to the feeling of that community and the industry. It kind of speaks to the way that these stories transcend. It's not just Star Wars; it's a story that is relatable to all of us.
GILROY: What does Andy Serkis say? "If we can fight as hard as we work, we're gonna win."
Also, I loved the shift in musical gears from the funeral band - both great tunes.
I was reminded of the funeral scene from Live and Let Die:
I was reminded of the funeral scene from Live and Let Die:
MI6 Agent Hamilton: Whose funeral is it?posted by kirkaracha at 8:05 AM on October 5, 2023 [2 favorites]
Bystander: Yours.
[Stabs him. The six pallbearers carrying the coffin break from the procession, stop over Hamilton's corpse and lower the coffin over the body. When they lift it up, the body has disappeared, into the coffin. They rejoin the procession, at which point the tune becomes lively and the crowd erupts into dancing.]
S2 likely delayed till "early 2025". bah!
posted by lalochezia at 7:56 PM on February 7 [3 favorites]
posted by lalochezia at 7:56 PM on February 7 [3 favorites]
I saw that Benjamin Bratt is apparently going to be in season 2 of Andor, seemingly in an arc partly set on Chandrila. Presumably he’s a Chandrilan, then, but one funny little detail that’s stuck in my head since speculation was rife that Luthen Rael was the same character as Rael Aveross, that the original conception of the latter was that he looked and spoke like Benjamin Bratt.
posted by Kattullus at 7:41 AM on March 15
posted by Kattullus at 7:41 AM on March 15
I just binge rewatched this over six days. It's really rewarding to watch it again. I remember being a little impatient on first watch because some episodes were kind of slow. Now, knowing where the story is going all that background and establishing exposition is much more interesting.
The pacing is smart. The season is four acts but slightly syncopated. Three episodes for Andor getting off Ferrix, three for the heist, then four for the prison break and two for the Ferrix conclusion. 3342, just a bit of swing. The time in the extra episode for the prison break act is mostly used to set up the backstory on Coruscant. I also appreciated that each episode is kept to a tidy 50 minutesish. I dislike how streaming has made some shows feel free to have 70+ minute movies instead of the classic 42 minutes of TV.
B2EMO emerges as a really interesting character on rewatch. He's woven through so much of the story. And I love how they gave the little droid speech and intelligence but not quite a full adult human, more like a child or maybe a developmentally disabled adult. He's treated kindly and with respect by everyone on Ferrix; that's one way we know the people on Ferrix are good. He also just does a lot in the story. Particularly liked how he is at the center of Maarva's funeral, projects her speech, he even toodles the first charge when the fighting breaks out.
I also really wanted Syril's character to be more interesting on rewatch. Unfortunately it's not, I think the writers dropped the ball a bit moving him into the background for so much of episodes 4-11. The actor is fantastic and is doing his best. Every scene with his mother (Eedy) had me cringing though. I like the overbearing mom story but the portrayal just feels so anachronistically Jewish Mother to me I couldn't see past it.
I also really admired how the main theme of Andor keeps getting reiterated. Of the power of resistance, how people banding together can overcome the evils of the empire. Nemik and his manifesto are such an effective storytelling tool for the writers making their point explicitly:
posted by Nelson at 9:21 AM on March 15 [3 favorites]
The pacing is smart. The season is four acts but slightly syncopated. Three episodes for Andor getting off Ferrix, three for the heist, then four for the prison break and two for the Ferrix conclusion. 3342, just a bit of swing. The time in the extra episode for the prison break act is mostly used to set up the backstory on Coruscant. I also appreciated that each episode is kept to a tidy 50 minutesish. I dislike how streaming has made some shows feel free to have 70+ minute movies instead of the classic 42 minutes of TV.
B2EMO emerges as a really interesting character on rewatch. He's woven through so much of the story. And I love how they gave the little droid speech and intelligence but not quite a full adult human, more like a child or maybe a developmentally disabled adult. He's treated kindly and with respect by everyone on Ferrix; that's one way we know the people on Ferrix are good. He also just does a lot in the story. Particularly liked how he is at the center of Maarva's funeral, projects her speech, he even toodles the first charge when the fighting breaks out.
I also really wanted Syril's character to be more interesting on rewatch. Unfortunately it's not, I think the writers dropped the ball a bit moving him into the background for so much of episodes 4-11. The actor is fantastic and is doing his best. Every scene with his mother (Eedy) had me cringing though. I like the overbearing mom story but the portrayal just feels so anachronistically Jewish Mother to me I couldn't see past it.
I also really admired how the main theme of Andor keeps getting reiterated. Of the power of resistance, how people banding together can overcome the evils of the empire. Nemik and his manifesto are such an effective storytelling tool for the writers making their point explicitly:
Freedom is a pure idea. It occurs spontaneously and without instruction. Random acts of insurrection are occurring constantly throughout the galaxy. ... the day will come when all these skirmishes and battles, these moments of defiance will have flooded the banks of the Empire's authority and then there will be one too many. One single thing will break the siege.What a fantastic way to take the brief of "give us the backstory for the Death Star plans" and turn it into something so meaningful. And deeply embedded in Star Wars universe.
posted by Nelson at 9:21 AM on March 15 [3 favorites]
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Wow. Emotional. Brutal.
Thoughts off the top of my head:
- Was Luthen pleased or horrified with what he's created? Rebellion followed by a brutal crackdown is exactly what he's been trying to trigger all this time.
- Mon planting the idea that her financial problems were down to Perrin's gambling - while also doing the dirty deal to cover the 400k - was clever.
- Little disappointed Karn saved Meero, mainly because neither of them died. She's a great villain though, not sad she'll stick around for season 2.
- I liked that the viewer wasn't in on the funeral plans (much larger attendance, early start). We only knew as much as the principal characters.
- Another great speech, this time by Maarva.
- Post-credit bit: a few people called this. Great visual.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 1:43 AM on November 23, 2022 [10 favorites]