Star Trek: Picard: Seventeen Seconds
March 2, 2023 5:04 AM - Season 3, Episode 3 - Subscribe

Jean-Luc goes around in circles with Beverly, Will, and a nebula. Meanwhile, Worf and Raffi discover a link to the past.

A little more Fandom crap and Memory Alpha'll be irreparable:

• Prior to PIC: "Disengage," Worf's last appearance was in Star Trek: Nemesis.

• The Dominion, ruled by the Changelings, was the primary antagonist of most of DS9. The "man of honor" Worf alludes to is Odo. [Major DS9 spoilers at both of those links --ed.]

• A segment of the Berlioz opera Les Troyens makes its second appearance in Trek here; the first was in Star Trek: First Contact.

"That's how it always was with us. There was always a clock."
- Beverly, to Jean-Luc

"I know now that I never would have been my father. But I could have learned that 20 years ago."
- Jean-Luc, to Beverly

"I am Worf, son of Mogh. House of Martok, son of Sergey, House of Rozhenko. Bane to the Duras family, slayer of Gowron. I have made some chamomile tea. Do you take sugar?"
- Worf, to Raffi

Poster's Log:
Quite a good job of de-aging on Will, and a pretty good one on JL, in the flashback scene. But that better not be all we see of Troi in this season.

JJ Trek (if it can still be said to exist) needs to take a note from Stream Trek here: this is how you TWOK-homage. Really enjoying the starship-in-nebula stuff, though this ep had so much of it (and there are so many TNG characters left to re-introduce) that I doubt we're sticking around in it for much longer. The Capital-Scale Portal Gun would seem to have some tactical limitations, and thus will probably be a bit of a one-off, but the Raffi story developed well enough here to demonstrate that that's the idea.

Which brings us to IMO the crux of this season so far, and particularly of this episode: uneven writing. Some of it's actually REALLY GOOD:
- I believed the Beverly-JL scene at least 95%. It was a taste of exactly what I hoped for in this season.
- The acting may have been most of it, but the writing was a big part of why Seven's reaction to Ensign La Forge was, well, perfection.
- Worf gets a proper re-introduction, and I like what we've seen of his character change thus far—at least SOMEbody came out of the past couple decades without drowning in trauma.

But then, in the same episode:
- The Jack-Will corridor scene, which was just odd.
- Minor quibble, but Worf didn't really need to actually SAY "I am wiser now."
- Major quibble: the command struggle between Will and Picard, which was more forced and wince-inducing even than last episode's Raffi-and-her-ex scene. I buy tension and a couple furrowed brows between those two in that situation—not goddamn "You've just killed us all." Mrs. CoB gave up on this season after this episode, and I think this is the scene that did it. I really hope we're meant to be all "That's not Will!" so that there can later be a reveal that "…That's not Will!"

And speaking of Changelings: I do buy a Rogue anti-Founder faction of them, based on prior hints that their apparently-unified species isn't always in lockstep (e.g. Laas from DS9: "Chimera", and really Odo himself). But I'm cautiously pessimistic in one respect: if this show holds to the Stream Trek pattern of embracing TOS, TNG, and VOY but keeping DS9 at arm's length (and pretending ENT doesn't exist), then I expect that these Apostatelings will turn out to be basically the foot soldiers of the real big bad, and that we will get few if any further references to the Founders/Dominion/Gamma Quadrant. (Now, that said, I do ache for a visit to the Bajoran system, which this reveal sets up perfectly: Worf brings Raffi to DS9 to consult with the Federation's expert on Changelings, Dr. Bashir!)

Also, the Changelings' presence here does put my "everybody's hyper-advanced-holograms" theory on shakier ground; what does a God-Hologram need with a Changeling? So this season is absolutely succeeding at keeping me guessing.

Poster's Log, Supplemental:
Giant Freakin Robot claims a Worf/Raffi spinoff is being developed. But this is one of those sites that gives us stuff like "Worf dies!" [click] "...in a comic book" and "See Anne Hathaway As Star Trek’s New Counselor Troi!" [click] "...in this AI art," so, uh, count me as dubious.
posted by CheesesOfBrazil (82 comments total) 5 users marked this as a favorite
 
That was a huge improvement. And that last scene works even better if you imagine that Captain Riker is actually Jonathan Frakes, Director and that Admiral Picard is Terry Matalas, Showrunner.

Also:

Dr. Crusher: I lost my parents, then a husband, then my son Wesley, all to the same stars that own you.
Picard: Oh, by the way, Wesley says hi.
posted by 1970s Antihero at 5:30 AM on March 2, 2023 [8 favorites]


I give this episode a B. It was better than the previous two episodes.

I'm a little sorry that Shaw is sidelined in medbay. I enjoy his "too tired for this shit" vibe.

- Major quibble: the command struggle between Will and Picard, which was more forced and wince-inducing even than last episode's Raffi-and-her-ex scene. I buy tension and a couple furrowed brows between those two in that situation—not goddamn "You've just killed us all." Mrs. CoB gave up on this season after this episode, and I think this is the scene that did it. I really hope we're meant to be all "That's not Will!" so that there can later be a reveal that "…That's not Will!"

I have to agree, although I'm not bailing on the show just yet. The writing on this series is pretty clunky, and it doesn't feel like the writers really know the characters. Unless, as you suggest, it's not really Will? Which would also be weird. But it could be the changeling guy?
posted by Fleebnork at 6:19 AM on March 2, 2023 [1 favorite]


Supplemental Supplemental:
Good Michael Dorn interview which implies no Worf spinoff
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 7:48 AM on March 2, 2023 [1 favorite]


Yeah, the writing has been pretty uneven, but I cheered at the Changeling reveal. And everything is better with Worf! I have been generally underwhelmed by the Raffi subplot, and I think that the addition of Worf is a major improvement: they're both... extremely extra in ways that play off each other.

There was no way to explain the Surprise Son Twist in a way that pleased everyone, but I think they made a solid effort here.
posted by confluency at 7:52 AM on March 2, 2023 [3 favorites]


Chamomile tea is a warrior’s drink!
posted by Mr. Excellent at 10:11 AM on March 2, 2023 [9 favorites]


Minor quibble, but Worf didn't really need to actually SAY "I am wiser now."

Oh come on, Worf would totally say that.

Like you OP, I think we're being set up for a "Riker is a changeling" reveal, which would be *chef's kiss* and totally in line with the paranoia surrounding the Founders in DS9.
posted by rhymedirective at 11:08 AM on March 2, 2023 [3 favorites]


I'm... kinda leaning towards *JL* being the changeling. This is a really aggressive "we have to fight" Picard that we've rarely seen.
posted by hanov3r at 1:51 PM on March 2, 2023 [6 favorites]


I think with the reiteration that Picard is a robot/synth/golem this season, JL as a changeling makes sense - there might be a way to tell that he's no longer a robot, whereas you can't easily tell when a human is a changeling.
posted by crossoverman at 1:55 PM on March 2, 2023


I don't like the idea of Riker or Picard being a changeling.

However, in E1 there's a generic gold-shirt that Riker makes eye contact with just after they've boarded the Titan and they have a weird nonverbal moment. I think it's the same guy/changeling who beats up Jack.
posted by the antecedent of that pronoun at 2:46 PM on March 2, 2023 [2 favorites]


or maybe TOM RIKER’S BACK, BABEY
posted by DoctorFedora at 3:25 PM on March 2, 2023 [28 favorites]


Goofs aside, starting to wonder if this season also had a red herring in the trailer like season two and the Bajoran tablet in the trailer that never showed up, since I’d been confident that the bio-electrical anomaly was going to be some sort of contrivance to reveal that, like, the Shrike is actually captained by Holodeck Moriarty, but maybe that’s actually not a thing after all?

Can’t say I mind their choice to acknowledge DS9, though!
posted by DoctorFedora at 3:27 PM on March 2, 2023 [1 favorite]


This is a really aggressive "we have to fight" Picard that we've rarely seen.

I forgot to point out that urging people to fire upon an alien ship with slower-than-light weapons when you know that ship has some kind of portal generating ability is... either incredibly dumb or a set up by someone who wants you to blow your own ship up.
posted by hanov3r at 3:33 PM on March 2, 2023 [3 favorites]


Given that Frakes directed this episode, you'd have to say that even if doesn't feel like the writers really know the characters then surely the director does.
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 3:49 PM on March 2, 2023 [3 favorites]


Riker: pew pew pew!
Vadic: ha ha ha now I'm thinking with portals!

Whoever directed Riker in this episode sure isn't very good at directing Jonathan Frakes. I'm sorry, but a lot of his deliveries were ridiculous. Particularly at the end when he kicked Picard off the bridge. The whole "you must fight / no we must hide" thing was pretty silly IMHO.

I recently watched all the Dominion War episodes of DS9 again and boy that was some great TV. So glad to bring back The Link, even if it is a slightly ridiculous conceit of a terrorist splinter puddle. Now I'm fascinated about the Vadic / Changeling relationship, if there even is one. My current guess is still Vadic is Moriarty and this is all some big distraction from whatever the True Threat is, the Daystrom weapon.

My favorite part was Worf. Dorn seems to be fully embracing the semi-parody of the old characters this show is trying to be. Just having great fun with the ridiculous stuff like the chamomile tea line. It all still feels spectacularly dumb to me but also fun. I made a point of watching this as soon as I could.
posted by Nelson at 6:11 PM on March 2, 2023 [5 favorites]


I'm really divided on Worf having successfully working on himself. The last I had seen, he was old and out of shape and bitter over Troi. And he looked like he was not drinking enough prune juice.

Now he's some ninja sifu. I guess Klingons can live 100 - 150 years so maybe this is Worf's second adolescence?

Picard's aggressiveness is unlike him, maybe its a late-onset fatherhood thing? Oh, Frakes directed this? Maybe he's just breaking Stewart's balls.

Vaguely disappointed that Seven's Starfleet issue boots are high heeled.
posted by porpoise at 6:16 PM on March 2, 2023 [1 favorite]


My current guess is still Vadic is Moriarty and this is all some big distraction from whatever the True Threat is, the Daystrom weapon

I wonder if both of the big reveals from the trailers, Moriarty and Lore, were things stolen from the Daystrom Institute along with the Portal Gun.
posted by hanov3r at 6:25 PM on March 2, 2023 [8 favorites]


oh okay yeah those would both make sense wouldn't they
posted by DoctorFedora at 6:53 PM on March 2, 2023 [2 favorites]


I wonder if both of the big reveals from the trailers, Moriarty and Lore, were things stolen from the Daystrom Institute along with the Portal Gun.

I was just thinking the bigger and more dangerous item stolen from Daystrom was Lore. Either someone's trying to make an army of them (like what they were doing in season one, only EVIL). Or maybe Lore managed to get himself back online, reassembled and ready to mingle do crimes.
posted by PlusDistance at 6:56 PM on March 2, 2023 [5 favorites]




Wild that Picard is finishing, Disco is cancelled and SNW still doesn't have a premiere date for S2. Also bizarre that Disco S5 is delayed until 2024 - a full two years after S4. What is P+ up to?
posted by crossoverman at 7:08 PM on March 2, 2023


maybe we'll see the Self-Aware Megalomaniacal AI containment room in live action
posted by DoctorFedora at 7:18 PM on March 2, 2023 [13 favorites]


DoctorFedora, I’m hoping for a Peanut Hamper cameo.
posted by Mr. Excellent at 7:38 PM on March 2, 2023 [15 favorites]


(Now, that said, I do ache for a visit to the Bajoran system, which this reveal sets up perfectly: Worf brings Raffi to DS9 to consult with the Federation's expert on Changelings, Dr. Bashir!)

And his husband. (Who would make an excellent addition to Worf's I Can't Believe It's Not Section 31.)

Yeah, some of the Picard-Riker interaction was not great, but the rogue changelings were a nice surprise. And the Self-Aware Megalomaniacal AI containment room in live action would be just the best damn thing. (If they went full LD, we might even get Badgey!)
posted by Halloween Jack at 8:00 PM on March 2, 2023 [4 favorites]


Also, I'm not sure how I feel about that Disco news. I still have a lot of affection for the crew, but... it sure seems like there's still a divide between the shows that didn't quite seem to catch on (DIS, PIC) and those that did (LD, PRO, SNW). I'm not sure that I would ever want a Section 31 show, but I wouldn't mind a show that's set in PIC's time, as long as it's not just yet another groovy ship with yet another plucky crew.
posted by Halloween Jack at 8:07 PM on March 2, 2023


as long as it's not just yet another groovy ship with yet another plucky crew.

I would be okay with a new ship exploring the 25th Century era of Trek. I assume that's what this season is working toward - setting up the next Next Generation.

I just want the future to look a little brighter.
posted by crossoverman at 8:40 PM on March 2, 2023 [4 favorites]


god, yes, I just want Strange New Worlds: The Next Generation

is that so much to ask
posted by DoctorFedora at 9:23 PM on March 2, 2023 [14 favorites]


OK I just about gave up when I realized that Shaw's request to send someone to look out the rear window was an actual command and not an ironic statement about the situation.

The friction between Picard and Riker seems forced, but I found their flashback conversation felt stilted and weird too. So I'm not sure what's going on, but it feels like the simplest explanation is just heavy handed writing to draw some kind of connection between Riker and Picard both being fathers now. Or maybe it's changeling all the way down.

Raffi just isn't working for me this season.
posted by nubs at 2:48 AM on March 3, 2023 [1 favorite]


When I saw that the Changelings were in play and heard Worf allude to "a man of honor" within the Great Link, I was super excited for a minute that maybe Odo would return. Then I remembered that René Auberjonois died in 2019, which was very saddening.

I guess it's too much to hope that Avery Brooks returns for a cameo? Popping out of the wormhole just in time to save the day?
posted by mrjohnmuller at 5:28 AM on March 3, 2023 [7 favorites]


OK I just about gave up when I realized that Shaw's request to send someone to look out the rear window was an actual command and not an ironic statement about the situation.

I liked that. In too many Trek episodes and movies, when the sensors don't work, people just kind of sit and squint at the screen on the bridge. Get some people looking out of windows and calling it out!

The nebula-thingy they're in makes the sensors not work. When the sensors don't work, use your eyeballs.
posted by Fleebnork at 5:50 AM on March 3, 2023 [9 favorites]


Wild that Picard is finishing, Disco is cancelled and SNW still doesn't have a premiere date for S2. Also bizarre that Disco S5 is delayed until 2024 - a full two years after S4. What is P+ up to?

Paramount is taking a loss for the first time in quite a while and they are cutting production costs, especially on P+. They spun that Discovery news well, but it's still a cancellation.

Picard was always supposed to be 3 and done, so that's not a surprise, but I wouldn't anticipate any new shows anytime soon. The streaming reckoning is coming.
posted by rhymedirective at 6:00 AM on March 3, 2023 [2 favorites]


I am 100% sure that the "real thing" taken from Daystrom is either Lore or Moriarty, and that Picard will engage whichever one it isn't to defeat the one it is. It's just a question of which is which. At the moment, I am leaning toward Lore as the "real thing" and Moriarty as the ally, since Moriarty is "the only thing that can outwit Data". Where this leaves Vadic and the Changelings is TBD.

I thought there was one too many "cute" line from Worf. Probably the "beheadings are on Wednesdays" one, because chamomile tea is totally in his wheelhouse.

The Deanna cameo was cringeworthy. The "harping housewife" is totally unfair to her and Star Trek shouldn't resort to such worn-out tropes. When she arrives in the stotry for real, I hope they do better by her.

This episode certainly worked better than the first two, even though the dialog remains execrable. I think Frakes made the most out of what he was given, which was a pretty straightforward action episode.
posted by briank at 6:06 AM on March 3, 2023 [15 favorites]


Raffi just isn't working for me this season.

Agree, but Raffi + Worf together really works. ("Angstypants and BeheadinGuy...THEY'RE COPS!")

I thought there was one too many "cute" line from Worf.

I agree. As a super-serious character, it's great when they use him for comedy occasionally, but there's so much of it that it doesn't feel as much like Worf anymore. I know it's been a while and characters have changed, but if they're saying he's completely gotten over himself, that's not coming through.
posted by PlusDistance at 6:59 AM on March 3, 2023


The streaming reckoning is coming.

Maybe already here. Disney lost a lot of money on Disney+, and brought Bob Iger back in an attempt to straighten things out. A lot of Marvel stuff (including things that are already in the can, so to speak) have had their release dates pushed back.
posted by Halloween Jack at 6:59 AM on March 3, 2023


I guess it's too much to hope that Avery Brooks returns for a cameo? Popping out of the wormhole just in time to save the day?

Sisko appears to save the day and orders the Titan out of the nebula:
Picard: "I appreciate the advice Captain Sisko, but we still have business to conclude"
Sisko: "When last we met Jon-Luc you were a Captain, and I was a Commander. Now you're an Admiral, but my most recent promotion was to a God. I outrank you. Get the hell out of this Nebula"
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 7:08 AM on March 3, 2023 [12 favorites]


The part that I liked least in this episode was the Riker/Picard back and forth that ended with Picard being kicked off the bridge. Notably, Picard just immediately leaves, not out of anger, but as a man with a plan. I have strong feels he's going to meet up with Seven to devise something.

The thing is, Picard has never felt like a captain/admiral who runs away (for that purpose, Riker has always felt even more aggressive). As a result, I didn't feel Picard was too out of character for his insistence they fight, which I felt seemed to take into consideration that flight wasn't really an option. It wasn't before they flew into the nebula/whatever, though I suppose the theory is they have enough of a head start if the baddies are still puddling through the neb/whatever?

The Nebular/Whatever definitely will play a role in how this engagement ends. I keep waiting for some space whale/slug/manta ray to fly out and attack the enemy. I'm not sure if that won't happen yet.

One aspect that I think the writers/producers have taken with this season is that they are approaching it very much from Trek movie sense. The Star Trek of the cinema is always a bit more actiony, characters a bit more fighty, and so on. It's continuing homage to Wrath of Khan (including, I swear, some of the score slipped into the music this episode), I think reflects this mindset. So we have First Contact Picard, the guy who loaded up his phaser rifle and went Die Hard on the Borg Queen, i.e., fightin' Jean Luc!

Not a fan of either Riker or Picard being Changelings. Both characters expressed a certain level of emotional depth that would cheapen a lot of things so far shown. I don't think we would have had the anguish on his face just before he told Picard to leave if he had been a Changeling. That moment was really just for us viewers.

I'm enjoying Worf. Again, it's movie Worf, so he's a bit more pepped up for the funny quips because in this short package of time, we already know who Worf is...mainly at least. I'm starting to view him in the same manner as our fierce Klingon generals from DS9, they too were a bit more reflective and discussed how they had also changed to a degree. When we left Worf in DS9, he was essentially the younger brother to the Chancellor (Martok) and probably was pulled into helping to govern and oversee the Empire. Less time fighting, more time to focus inwardly. If anything, I feel age has robbed us of some of Michael Dorn's better fierce invocations.

Lastly, I appreciated the Picard and Crusher conversation. Again, reflections of Khan, but when you step back and focus no what Crusher is saying about loss in her life, she isn't wrong. Picard has always been tied to the stars, and it was when he made his play at Starfleet about resigning, and they took it, it was then he was the most aimless, off in his French chateaux waiting for that call of adventure, sitting surrounded by the adventures he had lead in the past.

Strikingly, which wasn't noted, she named their son after her first husband. She named him after someone she had lost, and also, a good friend of Jean Luc's. I wonder if his middle name is Jean Luc or something to that dimension, to further show she did want Jack to connect with his father (granted, she tried to suggest he do so - but Jack didn't want it - which again, causes some headaches in the whole "I don't want the galaxy to know Picard has a son thing).
posted by Atreides at 7:32 AM on March 3, 2023 [3 favorites]


I just want Strange New Worlds: The Next Generation

Isn't that just TOS?
posted by hanov3r at 11:26 AM on March 3, 2023 [5 favorites]


Agree, but Raffi + Worf together really works

Still not great for me; it feels like the only direction being given for Raffi is "Faster, and more intense"
posted by nubs at 11:30 AM on March 3, 2023 [2 favorites]


First half of this episode had me really disappointed (Jack Crusher is supposed to be 20? in what universe? not this one, where he's clearly in his mid-30s), but the Changeling reveal really saved it. Especially the Worf/Raffi storyline, which moved from tedious to really interesting. The scene between Picard and Crusher was terrific, painful and true with riveting performances.

"…That's not Will!"

The only reason I think Riker might be a changeling is because he repeatedly says to Picard "Beverly said to trust no one," which seems like a cutesy way to telegraph a reveal for the attentive viewer (and would be of a piece with this season's uneven writing and slavering fan service thus far). But I agree that would really cheapen the scenes between Riker and Picard that we've seen. Which makes me think that someone among the primaries is a changeling... (maybe pilot LaForge? that's why there are two LaForge kids in this one? or is this one just a red shirt, and will be the first Meaningful Death?)

Definitely agree that Moriarty and Lore are what was likely really stolen from Daystrom. But if so, I wonder what the Changelings want to use them to do?
posted by LooseFilter at 12:08 PM on March 3, 2023 [1 favorite]


use your eyeballs.

What are eyeballs but sensors? I'm a little surprised that/ if Starships don't have wraparound external visible light sensors/ "sensors" aren't able to sense in the visible light spectrum.
posted by porpoise at 2:12 PM on March 3, 2023


But if so, I wonder what the Changelings want to use them to do?

Loriarty
posted by The Great Big Mulp at 2:30 PM on March 3, 2023 [7 favorites]


I thought the parallel between Riker and Picard "becoming fathers" while their sons hovered between life and death was fine, as well as Picard using Crusher's strategy against Riker later (with similar results...). The question of mourning seems to have a larger application, since we now have multiple characters unable to shake their pasts in various ways, and the return of Lore and Moriarty effectively from "the dead" seems a continuation of that theme.

Crusher's face-off with Picard was the best writing of the season so far; oddly enough, it also was a bit of a call-back to TOS, to T'Pring's reason in "Amok Time" for wanting out of her marriage to Spock.

Dorn was clearly having fun with Worf, which I appreciated.

Changelings! I wasn't anticipating that twist.

No, Jack does not look like a convincing twenty-year-old. Crusher certainly doesn't appear to have run away very far in the beginning, if he was going to school in London...

Did the makers of Portal get royalties?

That was some seriously bad strategy at the end there, Jean-Luc...
posted by thomas j wise at 5:40 PM on March 3, 2023 [1 favorite]


Kind of dreading that the nebula might be the wormhole aliens and the Sisko because that would kind of cheapen his story by going round-trip to once again define him in terms of his relationship to Picard

On the other hand, Mrs. Fedora has noted that if holograms gone wild are in store, then it’s not outside the realm of possibility that VIC FONTAINE SAVES THE DAY BABEY
posted by DoctorFedora at 8:36 PM on March 3, 2023 [4 favorites]


The Deanna cameo was cringeworthy. The "harping housewife" is totally unfair to her and Star Trek shouldn't resort to such worn-out tropes.

When this show is all said and done, her episode in season one of PIC will still remain one of the best Troi episodes ever. I can't believe they had Riker fuck off after she gave birth just to see Picard. None of these characters seem like they are the same people I loved when I watched Next Gen.

I think the lost Picard of season one, wanting to be back in the stars, still overcoming PTSD, was an interesting take on the character. That seems right, especially after all this time and at his age. This season, these people don't resemble what they once were at all. Sloppy writing by Matalas instead of the interesting choices Chabon made.
posted by crossoverman at 9:34 PM on March 3, 2023 [8 favorites]


Vaguely disappointed that Seven's Starfleet issue boots are high heeled

Her entire uniform has been fitted a bit differently from everyone else's, a bit sleeker and more stylish. I can't say I blame the costume designers, though, it must be a lot of fun to create costumes for someone who looks so great - she wears the hell out of every outfit they give her.
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 1:02 AM on March 4, 2023 [1 favorite]


What are eyeballs but sensors? I'm a little surprised that/ if Starships don't have wraparound external visible light sensors/ "sensors" aren't able to sense in the visible light spectrum.

The nebula thingy is interfering with the ship’s electronics. This is a Trek Trope since Star Trek II.
posted by Fleebnork at 5:45 AM on March 4, 2023 [1 favorite]


I liked how the visual glitches looked basically like MPEG decoder errors on corrupted input. Big squares of distortion.

Do they hear the BWAAAAAP that the Shrike makes every time it appears on screen? That'd be a help since in Star Trek space everyone hears everything.

Still a little confused how approaching the Shrike "from behind" was going to help them. Does it only have shields in the front or something? It's fair to assume that the Shrike has stronger defenses than the Titan; gambling everything on one torpedo spread seems pretty optimistic.
posted by Nelson at 5:54 AM on March 4, 2023 [1 favorite]


the BWAAAAAP that the Shrike makes every time it appears on screen

Single dumbest thing about the show so far, laugh out loud every time it happens. Which is coming around to making me love it, for being so persistently, overtly dumb.
posted by LooseFilter at 7:37 AM on March 4, 2023 [6 favorites]


I think they should have put on a lampshade and said that Jack has that accent because he went to school in Paris.
posted by Quonab at 11:58 AM on March 4, 2023 [21 favorites]


That ... was about 1,000 times better than the first two episodes. Dialogue that was actually witty! Tension that actually felt tense! Emotion that felt reasonably earned! Characters that behaved like reasonably intelligent people (with one or two notable exceptions!)

I was about to give up on this show, but now I'll stick around. I don't know if it was a better director, better writers, or Old Man Worf -- probably a combination.

I'll be... interested to see what happens when the next episode pairs this episode's director (Jonathan Frakes) with writers from the notably more terrible first two episodes (Terry Matalas and Sean Tretta). WHO WILL PREVAIL
posted by kyrademon at 12:21 PM on March 4, 2023 [3 favorites]


Do federation ships need to be moving forward to go to warp? A bit of impulse acceleration seemed to be helping Vadic from banging out the portal once they started. They have for sure gone to warp from a standing start in any number of situations where they get the engines on moments before a shockwave hits.
posted by biffa at 4:26 PM on March 4, 2023


I think the idea there was that they needed to move out of the nebula to be able to go to warp.
posted by rhymedirective at 4:56 PM on March 4, 2023 [1 favorite]


Somehow this was the level of goofy I truly enjoy. More Worf, please!
posted by Space Kitty at 7:41 PM on March 4, 2023 [3 favorites]


Question (there may be a reason for this, I don't know much about Changelings):

Why couldn't a shapeshifter get out of handcuffs?
posted by kyrademon at 2:57 AM on March 5, 2023 [3 favorites]


Why couldn't a shapeshifter get out of handcuffs?

Easy answer: he didn’t want to break his cover and expose himself?

Better answer: In DS9, the Romulans developed tech that kept a Changeling locked in shape until they flaked apart (or worse). The prototype was destroyed and everyone who knew how it worked was killed by the Dominion, but the idea was out there and maybe by now it’s been reinvented and made into cuffs. Why Worf knew to use them is the next question (Warrior intuition? Warrior paranoia?).
posted by Servo5678 at 5:04 AM on March 5, 2023 [3 favorites]


> "Easy answer:"

Yeah, that occurred to me, but you'd think he'd have given it a shot once he knew his cover was already blown. Was he too sick by then? Do Changelings canonically have a harder time changing when they're sick or something?

> "Better answer:"

Unless this is established in later episodes, which is possible, I'll pass on the "tech he didn't mention and shouldn't really have" explanation.
posted by kyrademon at 6:50 AM on March 5, 2023


Do Changelings canonically have a harder time changing when they're sick or something?

Yeah, once they've gone too long without regenerating pretty much all they can do is go back to liquid (as he did).
posted by thomas j wise at 7:26 AM on March 5, 2023 [2 favorites]


That makes sense, then. Thanks!
posted by kyrademon at 9:53 AM on March 5, 2023


(Jack Crusher is supposed to be 20? in what universe? not this one, where he's clearly in his mid-30s),

For what it’s worth, Ed Speelers was born during the airing of the first season of TNG (the week of “Arsenal of Freedom,” I think), so he’ll be 35 next month. Pretty straight-up Dawson Casting, in the words of TV Tropes.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 10:18 AM on March 5, 2023 [1 favorite]


was born during the airing of the first season of TNG (the week of “Arsenal of Freedom,” I think), so he’ll be 35

Well, that made me feel as old as the people in Star Trek And The Planet of Terrifying Facelifts
posted by Jon Mitchell at 11:34 AM on March 5, 2023 [1 favorite]


I think the ship's doctor is is playing for the other team. I think Riker and Picard are one, and working together. I think the sentient nebula will save the Titan and crew. I think Shaw will yet be a hero, and will observe plenty, recovering from his injuries, unless his off putting early personality reflects him to be a changeling. I think both good and more evil are on the way. It is amazing how Worf is such a comforting part of the show ecosystem.

I think Discovery will survive with a huge following.

I am seeing more Expanse CGI bits in this series. Some where in the previous Picard episodes, they used an actor from The Expanse to play a house servo robot on Picard's estate. In The Expanse he played the robot worker on Mars who started the Mars rebellion and destruction of the industrial site there. He was in the room where we were watching human crew take the lunch break of death.
posted by Oyéah at 2:15 PM on March 5, 2023 [1 favorite]


The fact that there's a changeling saboteur on the ship that wasn't even supposed to head to the nebula, I wonder how far the infiltration has spread.
posted by Marticus at 6:39 PM on March 5, 2023 [1 favorite]


If the Federation didn’t mandate anti-changeling security checks after the Dominion War (the Dominion occupied BETAZED for chrissakes) then man, idk
posted by rhymedirective at 7:37 PM on March 5, 2023 [5 favorites]


I wonder how far the infiltration has spread.

I wonder when they'll bring in Doctor Bashir to sort this all out.
posted by crossoverman at 7:39 PM on March 5, 2023 [2 favorites]


Ugh, are we gonna have to watch hours of episodes of other shows and read Memory Alpha to understand all the changeling stuff coming up now?
posted by kitten kaboodle at 8:56 PM on March 5, 2023


If by "other shows" you mean Deep Space Nine, you should definitely watch that anyway. (But on the other hand, I kinda hope the Changelings are the only thing they take from DS9.)
posted by crossoverman at 11:03 PM on March 5, 2023 [3 favorites]


oh no don’t condemn me to the terrible fate of having no choice but to watch a bunch of Star Trek

anything but that
posted by DoctorFedora at 11:18 PM on March 5, 2023 [5 favorites]


This was a triumph.

I'm making a note here -- huge success.
posted by kyrademon at 7:01 AM on March 6, 2023 [6 favorites]


I kinda hope the Changelings are the only thing they take from DS9.

The Bajoran Gratitude Festival was mentioned in the first episode of the season :-)
posted by Servo5678 at 12:02 PM on March 6, 2023 [2 favorites]


Well, how ‘bout you do you and I’ll do me? For me, it would be condemning me to unpleasantness to watch hours and hours of other Trek shows. The ones I enjoy are considerably outnumbered by the ones I don’t enjoy, and that includes DS9. I tried for two years to like it and finally gave up in third season, checked in here and there over its run, but have no desire to watch hours of it solely to be able to get anything out of Picard. So sue me.
posted by kitten kaboodle at 3:20 PM on March 6, 2023


Whoever directed Riker in this episode sure isn't very good at directing Jonathan Frakes. I'm sorry, but a lot of his deliveries were ridiculous. Particularly at the end when he kicked Picard off the bridge.

Unfortunately (and inexplicably), Jonathan Frakes directed this episode. I absolutely agree: That final back-and-forth between Picard and Riker felt so false and out of character for both, but especially Riker.

The rest of the episode was decent, and the convo between Picard and Crusher in sickbay was excellent -- it felt like exactly what this show should be doing. (Great acting by two actors who know their characters well helped, of course.)

I think Riker and Picard are one, and working together.

That's about the only explanation that could redeem that final exchange.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 4:56 PM on March 6, 2023 [2 favorites]


One other observation: It's strange that the Titan's sickbay looks more like the TOS Enterprise sickbay than SNW's Enterprise sickbay does.

I'm really hoping SNW tries to make its Enterprise look more like the TOS Enterprise in the next season.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 4:57 PM on March 6, 2023


holup what if one of them is actually a changeling but they get so into the part that they actually believe they are the REAL ORIGINAL one and then have to go into some weird dissociative state in order to live with the fact that they need to regenerate eventually? oh and then there's that raffi lady again, we're still supposed to believe she existed. Worf has pretty obviously got cancer btw.


I guess it's just nice to see the old crew back together again still mostly with their wits about them before they all start dropping.

agree with the comments about wide swings in quality of writing, etc..

overall, I'll be watching it to the end. I might be so desperate for ST in 2025 that I watch the final season of DISCO too.

Sometimes I feel like the superior show would be JL just having dinner out in the vinyard with various guests appearing in character as appropriate. Just like 50 minutes of story telling and laughing and talking about food and food preparation techniques and growing food and stuff like that.


Lower Decks, the other one with pike: obviously vastly superior to this stuff here but.. ya takes what ya can gets sometimes yanno?
posted by some loser at 12:10 PM on March 7, 2023 [6 favorites]


Sometimes I feel like the superior show would be JL just having dinner out in the vineyard with various guests appearing in character as appropriate.

I was hoping Season 2 was going to be "My Dinner With Q".
posted by Servo5678 at 12:32 PM on March 7, 2023 [6 favorites]


Riker: He’s the greatest man I have ever known!
Riker ten minutes later: Get out! You’ve killed us all, old man!
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 1:34 PM on March 7, 2023 [13 favorites]


Very father-son relationship there, tbh.
posted by Atreides at 1:54 PM on March 7, 2023


Sometimes I feel like the superior show would be JL just having dinner out in the vinyard with various guests appearing in character as appropriate. Just like 50 minutes of story telling and laughing and talking about food and food preparation techniques and growing food and stuff like that.

I would watch this.
posted by LooseFilter at 5:43 PM on March 7, 2023 [6 favorites]




Dang it, that show would've been great and one more capstone in the Worf finds himself once again suffering for the betterment of the Klingon Empire and only getting thanks on the side. Heh.
posted by Atreides at 11:29 AM on March 8, 2023


I am enjoying this so much, I put off watching it on time, to drag things out. Maybe I'll do some rewatching to catch details I missed. I am remembering the changelings could just look like an extra box of tools. There was someone watching Picard and Riker in the bar. Maybe it was the changeling Worf and Raffi interrogated.
posted by Oyéah at 12:41 PM on March 8, 2023 [1 favorite]


I'm enjoying Worf but am worried that he isn't as he seems. A changeling? Hologram? I don't know but I feel like he'll get Raffi to the Daystrom Station and find something important and use her to take it. Who is going to believe a newly addicted Raffi talking about a conspiracy theory involving Worf?
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 10:04 AM on April 20, 2023


don't meditate too much worf or you'll get all sapir, and not be able to fight
posted by lalochezia at 9:34 PM on April 30, 2023 [3 favorites]


> If the Federation didn’t mandate anti-changeling security checks after the Dominion War (the Dominion occupied BETAZED for chrissakes) then man, idk

If I recall correctly -- and it's been a minute since I watched DS9 -- I think the anti-changeling tech shown in DS9 was later revealed to be ineffective. It never worked, but the changelings tricked the Federation into thinking it did.
posted by riotnrrd at 9:07 AM on February 16 [1 favorite]


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