The Mandalorian: Chapter 23: The Spies
April 12, 2023 4:11 AM - Season 3, Episode 7 - Subscribe
Survivors come out of hiding.
Mecha-Grogu: *squishes fruit*
Mando: "This isn't working for me"
posted by garrett at 5:56 AM on April 12, 2023 [13 favorites]
Mando: "This isn't working for me"
posted by garrett at 5:56 AM on April 12, 2023 [13 favorites]
Mando: "This isn't working for me"
The most relatable bit of Mando-parenting yet.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 6:01 AM on April 12, 2023 [19 favorites]
The most relatable bit of Mando-parenting yet.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 6:01 AM on April 12, 2023 [19 favorites]
Oh look, Bo-Katan doing what she does best: getting good people killed! As someone who has watched Clone Wars and Rebels it beggars belief that people are STILL willing to put her in charge. Or perhaps they don't know how deeply complicit she was in bringing about Mandalore's ruin? And this "Lady Kryze" business. I guess we haven't outgrown George Lucas's obsession with hereditary aristocracy. Bleh.
While I'm ranting, it really ground my gears when she was so sneery to Boba Fett for being a clone. If it hadn't been for clones she's have been a ginger corpse a long time ago. The ingratitude!
Giancarlo Esposito was born to chew scenery and it's so much fun when he's in an episode. I hope he doesn't get killed off next week.
posted by orrnyereg at 6:52 AM on April 12, 2023 [7 favorites]
While I'm ranting, it really ground my gears when she was so sneery to Boba Fett for being a clone. If it hadn't been for clones she's have been a ginger corpse a long time ago. The ingratitude!
Giancarlo Esposito was born to chew scenery and it's so much fun when he's in an episode. I hope he doesn't get killed off next week.
posted by orrnyereg at 6:52 AM on April 12, 2023 [7 favorites]
"Oh no! An ambush! Quick chase after them it definitely won't be another ambush!"
posted by EndsOfInvention at 7:11 AM on April 12, 2023 [16 favorites]
posted by EndsOfInvention at 7:11 AM on April 12, 2023 [16 favorites]
This was some good Mando.
As excited as I am for Thrawn's return (I grew up on the old Expanded Universe novels, starting with the Heir to the Empire trilogy), I do roll my eyes at the idea that viewers will have watched Rebels (or read HttE) and know why he's a big deal.
I think this underestimates Thrawn's popularity and longevity in the Star Wars fandom. Outside of the fandom, definitely. In addition to Rebels, which dedicated two seasons to Thrawn (which Lucasfilm made a big deal about at the time within the fanbase), they have published six books about Thrawn between 2017 and 2019. So if someone were to visit the Star Wars book section, they would find at least 9 books dedicated to him (including the original trilogy). Toss on a comic adaptation of the Thrawn (2017) novel, you're hitting a lot of the fanbase or at least keeping Thrawn on the radar. Arguably, after the Emperor and Vader, chronologically speaking, he is the biggest bad in the GFFA in-universe (Maul popping up a few years after the Zahn Trilogy definitely moved him down a spot out of universe).
What I appreciated about this episode was how Gideon is 100% gaming to be the next guy in charge, not by just being another Imperial warlord, but by gaming the surviving Imperial powers. I know I should've recognized a couple of those names in the Shadow Council, but eh, my brain doesn't work like it should anymore.
The reveal that Gideon was operating on Mandalore was a surprise to me. Kudos. His cloned Dark Troopers in Mando armor are a direct callback to the Imperial Supercommandos in Rebels, themselves, being a draw upon original designs for stormtroopers/Boba Fett.
Yes, that was Chekhov's Mythosaur in this episode. Boba Fett played a rancor in Book of Boba Fett, Bo-Katan will be seeing him this giant beast to help defeat Gideon and re-take Mandalore. I'm pretty fascinated to see how the space battle goes, as it's clear they sent the Armorer up to the fleet so she can take charge and oversee the destruction of Gideon's forces. One wonders if a certain X-wing pilot won't swing by with friends to help in the fight.
Codpiece Mando, RIP. He did good until the Praetorian Guard showed up to create one of the strongest connections to the Sequel Trilogy, and specifically, to the Last Jedi. I'm extremely curious to see if Bo-Katan will take one down with the Darksaber which she helpfully forgot while staring through the blast door windows at Din being surrounded and captured. Not to mention, the good friend Grogu, who's use of the Force is also not limited by a blast door with windows. ARGH. At least Bo-Katan remembered her lightsaber eventually. Guessing the season will end with the Armorer having big piles of used beskar steel to melt down and reforge into new appropriate Mandalorian armor at the great forge.
No! No! No! No! Geezus I was having parenting flashbacks and Din became 1,000x times more relatable for a few minutes there. But yes, Grogu and IG-11 have become one. Mecha-Grogu12.
"He's not old enough to operate heavy equipment." I love this dialogue they always give to Din, he's so straight with it without thinking of how wild it sounds to others.
Night Owl/non-cult Mandalorians out there using up half their income to basically spray paint a giant mythosaur symbol on the side of their galactic van is my kinda thing.
posted by Atreides at 8:49 AM on April 12, 2023 [16 favorites]
As excited as I am for Thrawn's return (I grew up on the old Expanded Universe novels, starting with the Heir to the Empire trilogy), I do roll my eyes at the idea that viewers will have watched Rebels (or read HttE) and know why he's a big deal.
I think this underestimates Thrawn's popularity and longevity in the Star Wars fandom. Outside of the fandom, definitely. In addition to Rebels, which dedicated two seasons to Thrawn (which Lucasfilm made a big deal about at the time within the fanbase), they have published six books about Thrawn between 2017 and 2019. So if someone were to visit the Star Wars book section, they would find at least 9 books dedicated to him (including the original trilogy). Toss on a comic adaptation of the Thrawn (2017) novel, you're hitting a lot of the fanbase or at least keeping Thrawn on the radar. Arguably, after the Emperor and Vader, chronologically speaking, he is the biggest bad in the GFFA in-universe (Maul popping up a few years after the Zahn Trilogy definitely moved him down a spot out of universe).
What I appreciated about this episode was how Gideon is 100% gaming to be the next guy in charge, not by just being another Imperial warlord, but by gaming the surviving Imperial powers. I know I should've recognized a couple of those names in the Shadow Council, but eh, my brain doesn't work like it should anymore.
The reveal that Gideon was operating on Mandalore was a surprise to me. Kudos. His cloned Dark Troopers in Mando armor are a direct callback to the Imperial Supercommandos in Rebels, themselves, being a draw upon original designs for stormtroopers/Boba Fett.
Yes, that was Chekhov's Mythosaur in this episode. Boba Fett played a rancor in Book of Boba Fett, Bo-Katan will be seeing him this giant beast to help defeat Gideon and re-take Mandalore. I'm pretty fascinated to see how the space battle goes, as it's clear they sent the Armorer up to the fleet so she can take charge and oversee the destruction of Gideon's forces. One wonders if a certain X-wing pilot won't swing by with friends to help in the fight.
Codpiece Mando, RIP. He did good until the Praetorian Guard showed up to create one of the strongest connections to the Sequel Trilogy, and specifically, to the Last Jedi. I'm extremely curious to see if Bo-Katan will take one down with the Darksaber which she helpfully forgot while staring through the blast door windows at Din being surrounded and captured. Not to mention, the good friend Grogu, who's use of the Force is also not limited by a blast door with windows. ARGH. At least Bo-Katan remembered her lightsaber eventually. Guessing the season will end with the Armorer having big piles of used beskar steel to melt down and reforge into new appropriate Mandalorian armor at the great forge.
No! No! No! No! Geezus I was having parenting flashbacks and Din became 1,000x times more relatable for a few minutes there. But yes, Grogu and IG-11 have become one. Mecha-Grogu12.
"He's not old enough to operate heavy equipment." I love this dialogue they always give to Din, he's so straight with it without thinking of how wild it sounds to others.
Night Owl/non-cult Mandalorians out there using up half their income to basically spray paint a giant mythosaur symbol on the side of their galactic van is my kinda thing.
posted by Atreides at 8:49 AM on April 12, 2023 [16 favorites]
I know I should've recognized a couple of those names in the Shadow Council, but eh, my brain doesn't work like it should anymore.
The dude with Project Necromancer (HMMM, WONDER WHAT THEY'RE UP TO), Hux, is possibly the dad or uncle or something of General Hux from two or three of the sequel trilogy movies.
And of course…Pellaeon!!!, who came off here as a bit more conniving, and less practical and Watson-ish, than I always read him to be in the original Thrawn trilogy. We shall see. I'd be pretty astonished if he doesn't show up a fair amount in The New Adventures of Ahsoka and Friends.
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 9:33 AM on April 12, 2023 [5 favorites]
The dude with Project Necromancer (HMMM, WONDER WHAT THEY'RE UP TO), Hux, is possibly the dad or uncle or something of General Hux from two or three of the sequel trilogy movies.
And of course…Pellaeon!!!, who came off here as a bit more conniving, and less practical and Watson-ish, than I always read him to be in the original Thrawn trilogy. We shall see. I'd be pretty astonished if he doesn't show up a fair amount in The New Adventures of Ahsoka and Friends.
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 9:33 AM on April 12, 2023 [5 favorites]
Hux is the only one I immediately knew. He's General Armitage Hux's super abusive father who not only oversees the Necromancer proect, but also the brainwashing child soldiers into stormtroopers program that brings us Finn. In the current canon, he dies after Captain Phasma sees him as a rival for the stormtrooper corps (I think?) and manages to get him bit by a violently poisonous beetle from her home planet. (See Phasma the novel)
It would make a lot of sense for Pellaeon to have a big role as Thrawn's front man in that show. He's the one where I was like, "I know that name. It's familiar, but...????"
posted by Atreides at 10:36 AM on April 12, 2023 [1 favorite]
It would make a lot of sense for Pellaeon to have a big role as Thrawn's front man in that show. He's the one where I was like, "I know that name. It's familiar, but...????"
posted by Atreides at 10:36 AM on April 12, 2023 [1 favorite]
Hux is the only one I immediately knew. He's General Armitage Hux's super abusive father
And, of course, played by Brian Gleason, the brother of Domnhall Gleason, the actor who played Armitage Hux the Younger in the sequel trilogy.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 1:29 PM on April 12, 2023 [3 favorites]
And, of course, played by Brian Gleason, the brother of Domnhall Gleason, the actor who played Armitage Hux the Younger in the sequel trilogy.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 1:29 PM on April 12, 2023 [3 favorites]
I was not expecting to see that Gideon had already established a secret base on Mandalore. Sneaky.
posted by Fleebnork at 1:43 PM on April 12, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by Fleebnork at 1:43 PM on April 12, 2023 [6 favorites]
Yes, that was Chekhov's Mythosaur in this episode
That was not a Mythosaur.
posted by Pendragon at 2:49 PM on April 12, 2023 [5 favorites]
That was not a Mythosaur.
posted by Pendragon at 2:49 PM on April 12, 2023 [5 favorites]
Isn't there a whole thing about how only Mandalorians have the knowledge and skill to forge beskar? How did Gideon do it?
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 3:49 PM on April 12, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 3:49 PM on April 12, 2023 [1 favorite]
Fanboy me (vibrating): holy shit baby yoda in an IG mech this is why I watch this show!
critical me: uh he is riding around in the corpse of a sentient being.
Fanboy me: but IG-11 would have wanted it this way! He loved Baby Yoda!
critical me HE WAS PROGRAMMED TO THINK THAT WAY.
Fanboy me: next week we get to see the Armorer fuck up some Imperials tho
critical me: yup
they clink glasses. exeunt
posted by Sauce Trough at 5:07 PM on April 12, 2023 [13 favorites]
critical me: uh he is riding around in the corpse of a sentient being.
Fanboy me: but IG-11 would have wanted it this way! He loved Baby Yoda!
critical me HE WAS PROGRAMMED TO THINK THAT WAY.
Fanboy me: next week we get to see the Armorer fuck up some Imperials tho
critical me: yup
they clink glasses. exeunt
posted by Sauce Trough at 5:07 PM on April 12, 2023 [13 favorites]
seriously someday I want to see Star Wars: Book of Skynet so the droids can finally get their due. Picture fleets of droid death stars laying waste to all the bios and clearing the way for machine heaven.
one quibble: a sizable chunk of the galactic population is junkers who tear down wrecks for money (see Rey, the Ferrix folks, the Bill Burr prison, the junkyard in Jedi: Fallen Order, Ord Mantel in the EU) so it seems like Mandalore ought to be crawling with looters and wildcat beskar miners. how did they make the "mandalore is poisoned" lie stick?
Maybe Gideon had some kind of information op going so he could build his TIE base in peace...
Also, OG Pellaeon as Watson is brilliant.
posted by Sauce Trough at 5:14 PM on April 12, 2023 [2 favorites]
one quibble: a sizable chunk of the galactic population is junkers who tear down wrecks for money (see Rey, the Ferrix folks, the Bill Burr prison, the junkyard in Jedi: Fallen Order, Ord Mantel in the EU) so it seems like Mandalore ought to be crawling with looters and wildcat beskar miners. how did they make the "mandalore is poisoned" lie stick?
Maybe Gideon had some kind of information op going so he could build his TIE base in peace...
Also, OG Pellaeon as Watson is brilliant.
posted by Sauce Trough at 5:14 PM on April 12, 2023 [2 favorites]
critical me: uh he is riding around in the corpse of a sentient being.
They literally put IG-11's corpse on display in the public square, in the enlightened and friendly Navarro. And they liked him.
Droids are a massively oppressed slave race in SW.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 5:52 PM on April 12, 2023 [5 favorites]
They literally put IG-11's corpse on display in the public square, in the enlightened and friendly Navarro. And they liked him.
Droids are a massively oppressed slave race in SW.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 5:52 PM on April 12, 2023 [5 favorites]
they put the toddler in a mech. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.
Hm. A young jedi, traumatized by a tragedy at an early age, impulsive and self-centered, with a powerful attachment to someone outside of the order...strapped into a techno-suit...where have I heard this before?
posted by PlusDistance at 5:55 PM on April 12, 2023 [18 favorites]
Hm. A young jedi, traumatized by a tragedy at an early age, impulsive and self-centered, with a powerful attachment to someone outside of the order...strapped into a techno-suit...where have I heard this before?
posted by PlusDistance at 5:55 PM on April 12, 2023 [18 favorites]
strapped into a techno-suit...where have I heard this before?
That’s why they gave him a yes button and a Noooooooooooooooooooo button
posted by Gary at 7:23 PM on April 12, 2023 [19 favorites]
That’s why they gave him a yes button and a Noooooooooooooooooooo button
posted by Gary at 7:23 PM on April 12, 2023 [19 favorites]
Dunno about this one, for all the big happenings it felt kind of weightless. Ooh, admiral Yawn. Maybe it's just me, though.
I suppose nest week Din or Bo will finally kill Gideon, but he'll be back because he's made hundreds of clones of himself. Maybe X-wing Appa and the blue guy from Rebels save the Mandalorian fleet from Geddy's Ties.
That was not a Mythosaur.
Didn't look like it in the show to me, either, but in the credits the concept art is definitely one. Might have changed between painting and filming I guess, but how many different kaiju does this one planet have?
posted by rodlymight at 7:48 PM on April 12, 2023 [3 favorites]
I suppose nest week Din or Bo will finally kill Gideon, but he'll be back because he's made hundreds of clones of himself. Maybe X-wing Appa and the blue guy from Rebels save the Mandalorian fleet from Geddy's Ties.
That was not a Mythosaur.
Didn't look like it in the show to me, either, but in the credits the concept art is definitely one. Might have changed between painting and filming I guess, but how many different kaiju does this one planet have?
posted by rodlymight at 7:48 PM on April 12, 2023 [3 favorites]
Loved this episode! A ton of action and the plot coming together.
My new theory about the megafauna is that the human-equivalents of the Star Wars galaxy are about 2 centimeters high. The megafauna is just regular fauna, and that's how come square-cube ratios don't collapse their bodies, and how come the flying ones can fly.
posted by TheophileEscargot at 8:34 PM on April 12, 2023 [13 favorites]
My new theory about the megafauna is that the human-equivalents of the Star Wars galaxy are about 2 centimeters high. The megafauna is just regular fauna, and that's how come square-cube ratios don't collapse their bodies, and how come the flying ones can fly.
posted by TheophileEscargot at 8:34 PM on April 12, 2023 [13 favorites]
I think this underestimates Thrawn's popularity and longevity in the Star Wars fandom. Outside of the fandom, definitely.
Most people who watch the movies haven't read a SW book. Most people who watch this show haven't read a SW book. The idea that because he's big in SW fandom that he's a good character to bring into this show unheralded by anything but other shows is silly.
I read the Timothy Zahn books in the early 90s and that's all I know about Thrawn. Bringing him into these shows and presumably Filoni's movie doesn't really interest me because this is not the original Extended Universe. Zahn's novels were the original sequels and I already know those books have been superceded by actual movie sequels.
It's all just ridiculous IP machinations. It's not a good story and it's not a good idea to expect all viewers have watched all the shows and read any of the books.
posted by crossoverman at 8:36 PM on April 12, 2023 [4 favorites]
Most people who watch the movies haven't read a SW book. Most people who watch this show haven't read a SW book. The idea that because he's big in SW fandom that he's a good character to bring into this show unheralded by anything but other shows is silly.
I read the Timothy Zahn books in the early 90s and that's all I know about Thrawn. Bringing him into these shows and presumably Filoni's movie doesn't really interest me because this is not the original Extended Universe. Zahn's novels were the original sequels and I already know those books have been superceded by actual movie sequels.
It's all just ridiculous IP machinations. It's not a good story and it's not a good idea to expect all viewers have watched all the shows and read any of the books.
posted by crossoverman at 8:36 PM on April 12, 2023 [4 favorites]
Thrawn makes a big impression in Rebels; I've never read any of Zahn's books, but Rebels did a good job with the character, and may even be an easier intro/entry point to Nu Star Wars than TCW because it sticks with one crew and storyline instead of bopping around with different sets of characters and storylines.
Loved this, and LOLed at both MechaGrogu and how Gideon is setting himself up as some kind of ultimate Mandalorian, when he's clearly the galaxy's biggest Vader fanboy, maybe even bigger than Kylo Ren will ultimately be; don't tell me that he doesn't put that helmet on at home and practice his heavy breathing. As much as I love Esposito from you-know-where, though, I don't care as much about him surviving the season as Elia Kane. Hear me out: Moff Kane. It could happen.
posted by Halloween Jack at 8:48 PM on April 12, 2023 [6 favorites]
Loved this, and LOLed at both MechaGrogu and how Gideon is setting himself up as some kind of ultimate Mandalorian, when he's clearly the galaxy's biggest Vader fanboy, maybe even bigger than Kylo Ren will ultimately be; don't tell me that he doesn't put that helmet on at home and practice his heavy breathing. As much as I love Esposito from you-know-where, though, I don't care as much about him surviving the season as Elia Kane. Hear me out: Moff Kane. It could happen.
posted by Halloween Jack at 8:48 PM on April 12, 2023 [6 favorites]
They should have let codpiece kill one of the red boys.
I will never not be creeped out by Grogu piloting a corpse.
posted by ursus_comiter at 9:19 PM on April 12, 2023 [4 favorites]
I will never not be creeped out by Grogu piloting a corpse.
posted by ursus_comiter at 9:19 PM on April 12, 2023 [4 favorites]
They show Grogu reacting (very cutely ngl) to every damn thing that happens and then when Moff Gideon, the person who made his life hell for years, shows up, they don't show a reaction. And Grogu's reaction to Din being captured was very underwhelming, especially considering he almost murdered Cara Dune for arm wrestling with him. But overall this was a good episode.
posted by the webmistress at 9:39 PM on April 12, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by the webmistress at 9:39 PM on April 12, 2023 [5 favorites]
Yeah, I do not get why Grogu didn't force-choke Gideon right there.
posted by suelac at 9:49 PM on April 12, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by suelac at 9:49 PM on April 12, 2023 [2 favorites]
Yeah, I do not get why Grogu didn't force-choke Gideon right there.
I guess, if you were going to fan wank it, you could argue that Grogu knew he could only choke one person at a time, and the troopers would then have killed DD.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 10:19 PM on April 12, 2023 [2 favorites]
I guess, if you were going to fan wank it, you could argue that Grogu knew he could only choke one person at a time, and the troopers would then have killed DD.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 10:19 PM on April 12, 2023 [2 favorites]
"Let us prepare a feast for our guests...." which half of us won't be eating around other people, so what's the point? I HATE THE HELMET RULE.
"Bad baby!"
NEW RIDE FOR THE BABY. He's also got "yes" and "no" buttons in there. LOL SHOVE OFF I'M GONNA RIDE IT.
YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YESYES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES
"This isn't working for me."
I enjoyed the muttered, "Seriously?!" when the guy whipped out his vibroblade.
Awww, Baby Yoda the peacemaker. NO NO NO NO NO.
"You taught your apprentice well." "He didn't learn that from me."
AV Club review.
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:35 PM on April 12, 2023 [8 favorites]
"Bad baby!"
NEW RIDE FOR THE BABY. He's also got "yes" and "no" buttons in there. LOL SHOVE OFF I'M GONNA RIDE IT.
YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YESYES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES
"This isn't working for me."
I enjoyed the muttered, "Seriously?!" when the guy whipped out his vibroblade.
Awww, Baby Yoda the peacemaker. NO NO NO NO NO.
"You taught your apprentice well." "He didn't learn that from me."
AV Club review.
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:35 PM on April 12, 2023 [8 favorites]
"Let us prepare a feast for our guests...." which half of us won't be eating around other people, so what's the point?
That's another thing! Were they cooking the giant baby birds they brought back a couple of episodes ago?
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 11:37 PM on April 12, 2023 [6 favorites]
That's another thing! Were they cooking the giant baby birds they brought back a couple of episodes ago?
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 11:37 PM on April 12, 2023 [6 favorites]
I'm not sure about Din Djarin pledging fealty to Bo-Katan Kryze.
They used to be friends and now he's serving her ladyship!
Also is Bo-Katan the titular Mandalorian now? When is she going to ride that mythosaur?
posted by yonega at 11:50 PM on April 12, 2023 [1 favorite]
They used to be friends and now he's serving her ladyship!
Also is Bo-Katan the titular Mandalorian now? When is she going to ride that mythosaur?
posted by yonega at 11:50 PM on April 12, 2023 [1 favorite]
Alas, poor Viszla. He was a good dog.
Next week is the season finale!
posted by Pronoiac at 1:47 AM on April 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
Next week is the season finale!
posted by Pronoiac at 1:47 AM on April 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
Poor Ragnar: just survives being kidnapped by a raptor and now his father's dead. Wasn't expecting them to kill off Paz Vizsla after that reveal.
posted by TheophileEscargot at 3:15 AM on April 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by TheophileEscargot at 3:15 AM on April 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
I’m not fully convinced Paz Viszla is dead. Maybe he’s only mostly dead.
posted by Fleebnork at 4:17 AM on April 13, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by Fleebnork at 4:17 AM on April 13, 2023 [3 favorites]
I'm also hoping that Paz Viszla isn't dead. He's just going to show up somewhere and kick someone's ass. This is the way.
Mecha-Grogu was fun; I laughed so hard when he was walking through town hitting the YES button over and over. Toddlers are such a joy and such a pain.
When Gideon made his first appearance, my husband stopped the show to ask when had Gideon turned into Darth Vader. But then we found out about the beskar and oh, yeah. It was a really smart move for him--it would be harder for that council to get in his way when he has a beskar-clad army of clones at his disposal.
Bo Katan is a great character, but I want more Din Djarin and less everyone else. I miss "Travels with Din and Baby Yoda".
posted by ceejaytee at 4:59 AM on April 13, 2023 [6 favorites]
Mecha-Grogu was fun; I laughed so hard when he was walking through town hitting the YES button over and over. Toddlers are such a joy and such a pain.
When Gideon made his first appearance, my husband stopped the show to ask when had Gideon turned into Darth Vader. But then we found out about the beskar and oh, yeah. It was a really smart move for him--it would be harder for that council to get in his way when he has a beskar-clad army of clones at his disposal.
Bo Katan is a great character, but I want more Din Djarin and less everyone else. I miss "Travels with Din and Baby Yoda".
posted by ceejaytee at 4:59 AM on April 13, 2023 [6 favorites]
I’m not fully convinced Paz Viszla is dead. Maybe he’s only mostly dead.
I hope he's not dead as well. Although he was in the same position and shot from the same angle as Kuiil when he lay on the ground after being killed. I think the same version of the end music played at the end of both episodes too but not 100% sure about that.
Not gonna lie, I would have liked to see more sweet father and son moments between Din and Grogu, I absolutely love them. They've barely interacted all season.
Also am I the only one who still has no idea who Thrawn is? I remember him being mentioned during The Jedi episode (by Ahsoka Tano I think) but haven't watched Rebels or Clone Wars or any of those so am totally in the dark. I guess I should read Wookieepedia or something.
posted by the webmistress at 6:33 AM on April 13, 2023
I hope he's not dead as well. Although he was in the same position and shot from the same angle as Kuiil when he lay on the ground after being killed. I think the same version of the end music played at the end of both episodes too but not 100% sure about that.
Not gonna lie, I would have liked to see more sweet father and son moments between Din and Grogu, I absolutely love them. They've barely interacted all season.
Also am I the only one who still has no idea who Thrawn is? I remember him being mentioned during The Jedi episode (by Ahsoka Tano I think) but haven't watched Rebels or Clone Wars or any of those so am totally in the dark. I guess I should read Wookieepedia or something.
posted by the webmistress at 6:33 AM on April 13, 2023
If there's a clan Viszla there ought to be a clan Komondor.
posted by orrnyereg at 6:50 AM on April 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by orrnyereg at 6:50 AM on April 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
the webmistress, Thrawn is basically "what if an Imperial officer were actually really good at their job instead of just carrying water for a space wizard with a laser sword?" Like, we assume that Grand Moff Tarkin was, but he doesn't actually do a lot in Ep. IV compared to Vader. (Moff Gideon, Esposito's character, is also pretty good, seeing as how quickly he got back in the game.)
posted by Halloween Jack at 7:03 AM on April 13, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by Halloween Jack at 7:03 AM on April 13, 2023 [4 favorites]
Not being steeped in Star Wars lore, I only know about Thrawn from explainer videos I've watched in relation to the various recent Disney+ shows, so the "soft launch" of him here before he shows up in the Ahsoka show feels totally unnecessary. Moff Gideon has been entirely suitable as the villain for this show.
I sympathize with those of you who feel the zombie vibes from IG-11, but I am here all day for MechaGrogu smashing the YES button all over the galaxy.
Given that we are so deeply in medias res now, I hope to hell that we don't have to wait two years for Season 4. Mostly because I want these storylines to resolve sooner rather than later. I liked this show better when it was about just Din and Grogu.
posted by briank at 7:32 AM on April 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
I sympathize with those of you who feel the zombie vibes from IG-11, but I am here all day for MechaGrogu smashing the YES button all over the galaxy.
Given that we are so deeply in medias res now, I hope to hell that we don't have to wait two years for Season 4. Mostly because I want these storylines to resolve sooner rather than later. I liked this show better when it was about just Din and Grogu.
posted by briank at 7:32 AM on April 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
I liked this show better when it was about just Din and Grogu
Same. It's lost some of its magic (I'm all about the lone wolf and cub tale that was going on) but I'm still enjoying it, just kind of disappointed in that aspect.
Thanks for the Thrawn description, Halloween Jack.
posted by the webmistress at 7:51 AM on April 13, 2023 [3 favorites]
Same. It's lost some of its magic (I'm all about the lone wolf and cub tale that was going on) but I'm still enjoying it, just kind of disappointed in that aspect.
Thanks for the Thrawn description, Halloween Jack.
posted by the webmistress at 7:51 AM on April 13, 2023 [3 favorites]
It's all just ridiculous IP machinations. It's not a good story and it's not a good idea to expect all viewers have watched all the shows and read any of the books.
I think the trick here is if they just conjured up a brand new villain, the audience would be in the exactly same position. So it's how Thrawn is introduced in live action that's the key to his use as a character. So far he has been in the form of a mysterious threat. Gideon kind of stepped into their shoes, demanding proof that Thrawn is someone we should care about or not. I expect the season finale and Ahsoka will provide all the background viewers will need who have no experience with Thrawn outside of these shows.
Under the same logic, you might as well complain about the existence of the Ahsoka show (why should viewers care about a character that shows up in one episode of Mandalorian and one episode of Boba Fett?).
That was not a Mythosaur.
Under first watch, I thought I saw the horns and what all. After seeing this comment, I did go back and retract my statement. If it is a mythosaur, it's an ugly mythosaur. And if it is an ugly mythosaur, my apologies to its mother for calling its baby ugly.
posted by Atreides at 8:06 AM on April 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
I think the trick here is if they just conjured up a brand new villain, the audience would be in the exactly same position. So it's how Thrawn is introduced in live action that's the key to his use as a character. So far he has been in the form of a mysterious threat. Gideon kind of stepped into their shoes, demanding proof that Thrawn is someone we should care about or not. I expect the season finale and Ahsoka will provide all the background viewers will need who have no experience with Thrawn outside of these shows.
Under the same logic, you might as well complain about the existence of the Ahsoka show (why should viewers care about a character that shows up in one episode of Mandalorian and one episode of Boba Fett?).
That was not a Mythosaur.
Under first watch, I thought I saw the horns and what all. After seeing this comment, I did go back and retract my statement. If it is a mythosaur, it's an ugly mythosaur. And if it is an ugly mythosaur, my apologies to its mother for calling its baby ugly.
posted by Atreides at 8:06 AM on April 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
Not a fan but enjoy, ah, un-critically. But a different universe, slightly different laws of nature. Jetpacks are cool and only really work when not essential. "Survey the planet" so line up in single file and walk into one scary tunnel and don't look left or right. The 'force' is only useful at odd plot points.
Flash Gordon had more internal consistency but maybe not as much fun.
Now the brain of the robot baby yoda is riding, was it explicitly destroyed or could it have been salvaged by those cute scrapper muppets and sold to the little gnomes in robes that ship stuff all over and may turn up in a different guise?
posted by sammyo at 8:34 AM on April 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
Flash Gordon had more internal consistency but maybe not as much fun.
Now the brain of the robot baby yoda is riding, was it explicitly destroyed or could it have been salvaged by those cute scrapper muppets and sold to the little gnomes in robes that ship stuff all over and may turn up in a different guise?
posted by sammyo at 8:34 AM on April 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
Yeah, "flanking!" *take three steps to the left* You sure flanked them there, Lou.
And I think they're making something of a point of how the different sects have different comfort levels with the jetpacks, but yeah, the whole hot drop thing always makes me think they're just making up an excuse to go flying.
I still think they're being very careful about the scale of Bo-Katan's starfighter when they show troops disembarking it. Like, from a lot of frontal shots it looks like there's blessed little cargo space for it to be a troop carrier once the cockpit and standard issue star wars embarkation ramp are removed. I mean, that was a problem for Kenner back in the day too, right? That said, I think they managed to get one or two good shots of the TIE Bombers in this episode that made them look like they had some volume that wasn't just an extended man-sized pod on the one side and an identically sized pod on the other side, these looked mahoooooosive for a change.
posted by Kyol at 8:52 AM on April 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
And I think they're making something of a point of how the different sects have different comfort levels with the jetpacks, but yeah, the whole hot drop thing always makes me think they're just making up an excuse to go flying.
I still think they're being very careful about the scale of Bo-Katan's starfighter when they show troops disembarking it. Like, from a lot of frontal shots it looks like there's blessed little cargo space for it to be a troop carrier once the cockpit and standard issue star wars embarkation ramp are removed. I mean, that was a problem for Kenner back in the day too, right? That said, I think they managed to get one or two good shots of the TIE Bombers in this episode that made them look like they had some volume that wasn't just an extended man-sized pod on the one side and an identically sized pod on the other side, these looked mahoooooosive for a change.
posted by Kyol at 8:52 AM on April 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
Gotta say, that expedition bore little resemblance to any survey I have ever seen. I would have suggested at least a low-level flyover with sensors going?
Also, how on earth do they expect to survive physically on a planet that has been glassed? What will they eat? Why would anyone bring their children there?
I could see establishing an outpost to re-open the beskar mines, but keeping the settlements elsewhere, like on Concordia, which explicitly did not get bombed. Kalevala looks pretty green and habitable!
"re-taking Mandalore" is basically a political statement but not a feasible actual goal. What they should be doing is gathering forces and consolidating their people around the Mandalorian system, rather than trying to resettle a planet which appears to be functionally uninhabitable, even if the air is breathable.
posted by suelac at 9:05 AM on April 13, 2023 [4 favorites]
Also, how on earth do they expect to survive physically on a planet that has been glassed? What will they eat? Why would anyone bring their children there?
I could see establishing an outpost to re-open the beskar mines, but keeping the settlements elsewhere, like on Concordia, which explicitly did not get bombed. Kalevala looks pretty green and habitable!
"re-taking Mandalore" is basically a political statement but not a feasible actual goal. What they should be doing is gathering forces and consolidating their people around the Mandalorian system, rather than trying to resettle a planet which appears to be functionally uninhabitable, even if the air is breathable.
posted by suelac at 9:05 AM on April 13, 2023 [4 favorites]
Not being steeped in Star Wars lore, I only know about Thrawn from explainer videos I've watched in relation to the various recent Disney+ shows, so the "soft launch" of him here before he shows up in the Ahsoka show feels totally unnecessary.
Thrawn features heavily in Rebels and, compared to The Clone Wars series, Rebels is pretty tight and doesn't veer off into the bizarre tangents like some of TCW's arcs (e.g., Jar-Jar gets his groove back). There's only a few cross-over characters with TCW and one of them you already know (Ahsoka).
posted by nathan_teske at 9:45 AM on April 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
Thrawn features heavily in Rebels and, compared to The Clone Wars series, Rebels is pretty tight and doesn't veer off into the bizarre tangents like some of TCW's arcs (e.g., Jar-Jar gets his groove back). There's only a few cross-over characters with TCW and one of them you already know (Ahsoka).
posted by nathan_teske at 9:45 AM on April 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
I've mostly liked this season, but lord, the pacing is all ooooover the place. It felt like about half the season's entire plot was crammed into this one episode. I definitely feel like there was at least two episodes worth of material here (they could've spent some extra time doing a real survey of the planet and spending a little more time on the inter-clan tensions and getting to know the survivors from the surface, and how they survived) and I also definitely feel like there was enough fat to cut from the season up to this point that they could've fit in that extra episode. But c'est la vie.
Thrawn is basically "what if an Imperial officer were actually really good at their job instead of just carrying water for a space wizard with a laser sword?"
I'd even go a step further than this; Thrawn is basically "What if Sherlock Holmes was a fleet admiral for the Empire?" He's a great character; there's a reason for his longevity and his being resurrected so quickly by Disney after they threw out all the rest of the old EU canon.
But I agree that they're not actually banking on the audience knowing who he is; all this laying-the-groundwork of people asking "where's Thrawn?" is not just Easter eggs for the people who already know who he is, but also to build up the sense that he is a Big Bad for the people who don't know who he is. Who is he? He's the guy that parts of the surviving Imperial command structure think could bring back the Empire in One Fell Swoop. That's all you really need to know about him at this point, and that's all laid out in this episode.
posted by mstokes650 at 10:13 AM on April 13, 2023 [10 favorites]
Thrawn is basically "what if an Imperial officer were actually really good at their job instead of just carrying water for a space wizard with a laser sword?"
I'd even go a step further than this; Thrawn is basically "What if Sherlock Holmes was a fleet admiral for the Empire?" He's a great character; there's a reason for his longevity and his being resurrected so quickly by Disney after they threw out all the rest of the old EU canon.
But I agree that they're not actually banking on the audience knowing who he is; all this laying-the-groundwork of people asking "where's Thrawn?" is not just Easter eggs for the people who already know who he is, but also to build up the sense that he is a Big Bad for the people who don't know who he is. Who is he? He's the guy that parts of the surviving Imperial command structure think could bring back the Empire in One Fell Swoop. That's all you really need to know about him at this point, and that's all laid out in this episode.
posted by mstokes650 at 10:13 AM on April 13, 2023 [10 favorites]
It is pretty creepy for Grogu to be riding around in the hollowed-out corpse of a named droid character, buuuut also his button-mashing is hilarious. And it fits the dark humour streak that's accompanied Grogu from the very beginning -- remember when he kept eating the precious eggs of that sentient salamander lady?
I haven't read or watched any of the media with Thrawn in it; I've just heard of Thrawn and I know people think he's cool. So I'm fine with the Thrawn references -- they're establishing that he's an important guy in the universe, so that he won't appear completely out of nowhere.
I like the implication that Moff Gideon had his minion melt Dr Pershing's brain because he doesn't like the extremely dumb plot to resurrect the Emperor (I imagine because it doesn't involve him being in charge). Pity he won't ultimately succeed in preventing it.
I'm having some serious problems with scale here (this happens a lot with Star Wars). Mandalore is a whole-ass planet, but the way they keep talking about it being "destroyed" or "retaken" makes it sound like it has one (1) city that contained the entire civilisation, and the entire rest of the planet is... not important.
posted by confluency at 11:31 AM on April 13, 2023 [3 favorites]
I haven't read or watched any of the media with Thrawn in it; I've just heard of Thrawn and I know people think he's cool. So I'm fine with the Thrawn references -- they're establishing that he's an important guy in the universe, so that he won't appear completely out of nowhere.
I like the implication that Moff Gideon had his minion melt Dr Pershing's brain because he doesn't like the extremely dumb plot to resurrect the Emperor (I imagine because it doesn't involve him being in charge). Pity he won't ultimately succeed in preventing it.
I'm having some serious problems with scale here (this happens a lot with Star Wars). Mandalore is a whole-ass planet, but the way they keep talking about it being "destroyed" or "retaken" makes it sound like it has one (1) city that contained the entire civilisation, and the entire rest of the planet is... not important.
posted by confluency at 11:31 AM on April 13, 2023 [3 favorites]
Mandalore is a whole-ass planet, but the way they keep talking about it being "destroyed" or "retaken" makes it sound like it has one (1) city that contained the entire civilisation, and the entire rest of the planet is... not important.
This is irritating, but it is also generally true of a lot of Star Wars and a lot of additional science fiction beyond that.
Relevant TVTropes:
Planet of Hats
Single-Biome Planet
One-Product Planet
Single-Species Nation
(The Planet of Hats / Never Remove Your Helmet joke is left as an exercise for the reader.)
posted by gauche at 12:16 PM on April 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
This is irritating, but it is also generally true of a lot of Star Wars and a lot of additional science fiction beyond that.
Relevant TVTropes:
Planet of Hats
Single-Biome Planet
One-Product Planet
Single-Species Nation
(The Planet of Hats / Never Remove Your Helmet joke is left as an exercise for the reader.)
posted by gauche at 12:16 PM on April 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
Well, apparently because the rest of the planet is full of predators the size of a star destroyer that prey on Mandalorians because they'd need to consume pretty much all the other biomass on the planet to sustain themselves.
But the Mandalorians wouldn't have it any other way. When they have to flee Mandalore and hide out somewhere, anywhere, else in the galaxy, they apparently deliberately seek out planets that have these implausible creatures waiting to prey on them.
posted by Naberius at 12:49 PM on April 13, 2023 [6 favorites]
But the Mandalorians wouldn't have it any other way. When they have to flee Mandalore and hide out somewhere, anywhere, else in the galaxy, they apparently deliberately seek out planets that have these implausible creatures waiting to prey on them.
posted by Naberius at 12:49 PM on April 13, 2023 [6 favorites]
Yeah, watching the redemption of the prequels through TCW and the Bad Batch (and etc) has kind of made me ponder some of the faults I had with the prequels, and how justified some of them were. Like ok, Maul as a baddie in Phantom Menace, sure we didn't have much of an introduction, but it was pretty clear how things were going. But then we got on to the rest of the prequel antagonists and it felt less and less attached to the storytelling other than broadly running through bad guys, like ok we need Anakin and Obi-Wan to fight someone QUICK uhh here Dooku! *whack* shit ok Grievous! *whack* SHEEEEEEV.
And at the time, it was just ... ugh ok fine popcorn baddies for popcorn movies, they weren't the worst part (which, I dunno, I've sort of come around on in the mean time? I mean, I dunno about jar jar yet, but the sort of 50s chrome and v8 aesthetic? and neon and shadow demi-dystopia? sure ok. I suspect the early CGI is going to be the part that is going to be the hardest to redeem, frankly), but I never really understood what was going on as much as I felt like I did during the OT. But then I think about it, and did I really know that much about Tarkin in the OT? Or Jabba? Any of the antagonists that weren't Vader, really? Maybe not so much? But since I saw the OT when I was a small child, I didn't need to have that part of the plot filled out beyond knowing they were bad guys to Our Heroes, and seeing the prequels as a young adult made it jump out at me more.
So yeah, it's a fine line for them to walk when there's canon and extended canon and almost a decade's worth of current continuity and media to keep in mind, and some superfans will know _every_ detail and some fans are only watching the biggest releases. Tricky.
posted by Kyol at 1:25 PM on April 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
And at the time, it was just ... ugh ok fine popcorn baddies for popcorn movies, they weren't the worst part (which, I dunno, I've sort of come around on in the mean time? I mean, I dunno about jar jar yet, but the sort of 50s chrome and v8 aesthetic? and neon and shadow demi-dystopia? sure ok. I suspect the early CGI is going to be the part that is going to be the hardest to redeem, frankly), but I never really understood what was going on as much as I felt like I did during the OT. But then I think about it, and did I really know that much about Tarkin in the OT? Or Jabba? Any of the antagonists that weren't Vader, really? Maybe not so much? But since I saw the OT when I was a small child, I didn't need to have that part of the plot filled out beyond knowing they were bad guys to Our Heroes, and seeing the prequels as a young adult made it jump out at me more.
So yeah, it's a fine line for them to walk when there's canon and extended canon and almost a decade's worth of current continuity and media to keep in mind, and some superfans will know _every_ detail and some fans are only watching the biggest releases. Tricky.
posted by Kyol at 1:25 PM on April 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
One day Din is going to have to take CARL WEATHERS aside and give him the “You can’t be calling me ‘Mando’ in front of the other Mandolorians” talk that all minorities eventually have to have with their non-minority friends.
posted by Parasite Unseen at 3:36 PM on April 13, 2023 [34 favorites]
posted by Parasite Unseen at 3:36 PM on April 13, 2023 [34 favorites]
One day Din is going to have to take CARL WEATHERS aside and give him the “You can’t be calling me ‘Mando’ in front of the other Mandolorians” talk that all minorities eventually have to have with their non-minority friends.
It's okay because Greef Karga knows a Mandalorian but he once said it with the "hard O" in a heated magistrate moment. /s
posted by nathan_teske at 1:58 PM on April 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
It's okay because Greef Karga knows a Mandalorian but he once said it with the "hard O" in a heated magistrate moment. /s
posted by nathan_teske at 1:58 PM on April 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
TheophileEscargot, I am absolutely behind the 'humans in StarWars are actually Lego figure sized" theory. Yes. Yes. Yes.
posted by The otter lady at 5:15 PM on April 14, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by The otter lady at 5:15 PM on April 14, 2023 [5 favorites]
critical me: uh he is riding around in the corpse of a sentient being.
Fanboy me: but IG-11 would have wanted it this way! He loved Baby Yoda!
Evangelion changed this from a TMNT villian thing into the hero thing. and now we are just ruined. Way to dive further into the parenting themes of the show, though
posted by eustatic at 7:27 AM on April 16, 2023
Fanboy me: but IG-11 would have wanted it this way! He loved Baby Yoda!
Evangelion changed this from a TMNT villian thing into the hero thing. and now we are just ruined. Way to dive further into the parenting themes of the show, though
posted by eustatic at 7:27 AM on April 16, 2023
Ok but who were "the spies" tho?? Seems important. The imperial remnant leadership are shady but I wouldn't call them spies. Kane I guess is *a* spy but whence the plural?
Din continues to be the most relatable parent in Star Wars. My oldest just got a phone and the "yes. yes. yes."-"'this isn't working for me' buuut somehow kiddo gets to keep the gadget because it turns out I'm bad at this" dynamic is playing out right now chez potrzebie.
Have we not seen live action Pellaeon before? I could have sworn he was in something else but I'm not finding a citation for it. Actually, maybe I'm thinking of my excitement about live action Yularen on Andor last year. It's my opinion that Pellaeon should have a much sillier mustache. I completely didn't hear Hux Senior being called Hux, so I'm glad I looked at this thread, I'd have totally missed that otherwise. Do y'all think they'll show Thrawn for a second next week to get people talking, or are they gonna save him for Ahsoka this summer?
I don't get why anyone is willing to follow Bo Katan. I guess what I like about this show is she clearly doesn't either. She's always been the sister who couldn't get it together and ended up actually a leader rather than just a troublemaker kinda by attrition. But she hasn't articulated much of a vision for where any of this is going and she isn't great at tactics. Thrawn is going to wipe the floor with her if she's still in the picture when he comes on the scene.
But ok really the best thing that happened in the episode is that the mandalorian factions were getting along sorta-ok and then someone pulled a knife over a board game rules dispute and the ensuing fracas had to be pulled apart by a baby in a mech suit. This civilization is so fucked and this show is so silly.
posted by potrzebie at 12:19 AM on April 17, 2023 [6 favorites]
Din continues to be the most relatable parent in Star Wars. My oldest just got a phone and the "yes. yes. yes."-"'this isn't working for me' buuut somehow kiddo gets to keep the gadget because it turns out I'm bad at this" dynamic is playing out right now chez potrzebie.
Have we not seen live action Pellaeon before? I could have sworn he was in something else but I'm not finding a citation for it. Actually, maybe I'm thinking of my excitement about live action Yularen on Andor last year. It's my opinion that Pellaeon should have a much sillier mustache. I completely didn't hear Hux Senior being called Hux, so I'm glad I looked at this thread, I'd have totally missed that otherwise. Do y'all think they'll show Thrawn for a second next week to get people talking, or are they gonna save him for Ahsoka this summer?
I don't get why anyone is willing to follow Bo Katan. I guess what I like about this show is she clearly doesn't either. She's always been the sister who couldn't get it together and ended up actually a leader rather than just a troublemaker kinda by attrition. But she hasn't articulated much of a vision for where any of this is going and she isn't great at tactics. Thrawn is going to wipe the floor with her if she's still in the picture when he comes on the scene.
But ok really the best thing that happened in the episode is that the mandalorian factions were getting along sorta-ok and then someone pulled a knife over a board game rules dispute and the ensuing fracas had to be pulled apart by a baby in a mech suit. This civilization is so fucked and this show is so silly.
posted by potrzebie at 12:19 AM on April 17, 2023 [6 favorites]
Spies is definitely the big question of the episode. Prior to listening to The House of R podcast, I was actually angling into the Armorer somehow being the spy - if only based on her decision to fly back the sick/wounded Mandalorians to the fleet and then the continual cuts back and forth to her. I could envision her landing/docking with the cruiser, her shuttle portal opening and a bunch of white armored Gideon troopers tumbling out in a surprise attack. The podcast also brought to mind the idea that the Armorer could see this whole thing as a situation where she could effectively wipe out some of those horrid Mandalorians who don't follow the way and take their helmets off by setting them up. Swear allegiance to Gideon, get a steady free supply of beskar for her small tribe and there you go.
There also remains the potential connection to Rook Kast, who was a former member of Death Watch (like the Armorer) and had horns on her helmet (like the Armorer) and served Darth Maul after he took over the planet. This is all Clone Wars stuff, btw, so anyone not recognizing a word of this, don't feel bad. Obviously, siding with a Sith Lord over your own people would give you grounds to tell folks not to take your helmet off. Though, we have no evidence that Kast knew anything about forging so that would have been a hobby she picked up between Maul's fall and sometime before she setup her following on the moon of Concordia.
Another good potential spy would be Axe Wolves, who took over the Night Owls and turned them into a mercenary group after Bo-Katan lost the Darksaber. The guy clearly told us in a previous episode he was more than happy to take money to do anything. He conveniently left the second Moff Gideon's forces showed up. The real question would be for someone who personally witnessed the Empire annihilate what was left of his home world, would there be a price high enough to betray his people for the Imperial remnant?
posted by Atreides at 7:31 AM on April 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
There also remains the potential connection to Rook Kast, who was a former member of Death Watch (like the Armorer) and had horns on her helmet (like the Armorer) and served Darth Maul after he took over the planet. This is all Clone Wars stuff, btw, so anyone not recognizing a word of this, don't feel bad. Obviously, siding with a Sith Lord over your own people would give you grounds to tell folks not to take your helmet off. Though, we have no evidence that Kast knew anything about forging so that would have been a hobby she picked up between Maul's fall and sometime before she setup her following on the moon of Concordia.
Another good potential spy would be Axe Wolves, who took over the Night Owls and turned them into a mercenary group after Bo-Katan lost the Darksaber. The guy clearly told us in a previous episode he was more than happy to take money to do anything. He conveniently left the second Moff Gideon's forces showed up. The real question would be for someone who personally witnessed the Empire annihilate what was left of his home world, would there be a price high enough to betray his people for the Imperial remnant?
posted by Atreides at 7:31 AM on April 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
Off topic, I had a dream in which Baby Yoda grew to a gigantic size--let's say 3-4 feet wall. Why, I do not know.
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:09 AM on April 17, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:09 AM on April 17, 2023 [3 favorites]
This is entirely on topic and wonderful.
posted by Atreides at 8:57 AM on April 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Atreides at 8:57 AM on April 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
If the Armorer was planning to betray the non-Children Mandalorian faction wouldn't she have fought to have the two factions separated? She could very easily have ginned up an excuse to leave her people safely ensconced on Nevarro. Axe Woves seems more plausible to me as an option, but we don't even trust that guy yet.
posted by potrzebie at 12:29 PM on April 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by potrzebie at 12:29 PM on April 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
Star Wars has a Baby Yoda problem: The Mandalorian was the answer to all of Star Wars’ problems — until it embodied them.
posted by jenfullmoon at 3:29 PM on April 17, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by jenfullmoon at 3:29 PM on April 17, 2023 [5 favorites]
Welp. Mando Season Finale Eve. Buckle down on your social media muting and avoidance strategies, because 100% likelihood people will be talking about it before most of us are even awake (thank you midnight west coast release!). So outstanding questions going into tomorrow:
1) Who's the other spy? (will there be another spy or was it just a tease?!)
2) How is Moff Gideon defeated? (There's no way our wonderful villain escapes defeat for the third time.)
3) Who among the good guys are going to bite it? (Din and Grogu are the only safe ones, in my opinion, but this is a sliding scale. Bo-Katan is a quoted favorite character of Dave Filoni's, so it seems unlikely he would kill her off and/or make her face defeat for the third (fourth?) time.)
4) THRAWN. How much? Any at all? Will we hear Kevin Kiner's wonderful organ music motif he introduced in Rebels?
5) Any other surprise character appearances? (Anyone from Rebels is a big likelihood - but what about Grand Admiral Rae Sloane?)
6) How will the Praetorian Guard be taken out. They're clearly the real big bad in this showdown on Mandalore.
7) What will be the cliffhanger? (See 4?)
posted by Atreides at 6:46 AM on April 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
1) Who's the other spy? (will there be another spy or was it just a tease?!)
2) How is Moff Gideon defeated? (There's no way our wonderful villain escapes defeat for the third time.)
3) Who among the good guys are going to bite it? (Din and Grogu are the only safe ones, in my opinion, but this is a sliding scale. Bo-Katan is a quoted favorite character of Dave Filoni's, so it seems unlikely he would kill her off and/or make her face defeat for the third (fourth?) time.)
4) THRAWN. How much? Any at all? Will we hear Kevin Kiner's wonderful organ music motif he introduced in Rebels?
5) Any other surprise character appearances? (Anyone from Rebels is a big likelihood - but what about Grand Admiral Rae Sloane?)
6) How will the Praetorian Guard be taken out. They're clearly the real big bad in this showdown on Mandalore.
7) What will be the cliffhanger? (See 4?)
posted by Atreides at 6:46 AM on April 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
I'm already preparing myself emotionally for the Thrawn music
posted by potrzebie at 12:34 PM on April 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by potrzebie at 12:34 PM on April 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
then someone pulled a knife over a board game rules dispute and the ensuing fracas had to be pulled apart
Doesn't every board game night end in a rules dispute? Or is that just me?
1) Who's the other spy? (will there be another spy or was it just a tease?!)
Narratively, the purpose of a mask is to conceal a second identity, from other characters and sometimes from the audience. The armorer taking off with the wounded seems like an opportunity to defect, if Gideon has anything to offer -- access to the great furnace and beskar anyone?
2) How is Moff Gideon defeated? (There's no way our wonderful villain escapes defeat for the third time.)
Mythosaur eats him as he bathes in the living waters, as his narcissism more or less demands it in a bid to declare himself Lord of Mandelore.
3) Who among the good guys are going to bite it?
Bo-katan is killed by the Armorer, who claims the darksaber as her own, and reveals herself to be a half sister or some BS.
6) How will the Praetorian Guard be taken out. They're clearly the real big bad in this showdown on Mandalore.
Honestly it would be on brand for this show to totally forget about them in the finale. Their sole purpose was to give Paz Vizsla an honorable death after the "too many of them" storm troopers turned out to be "just enough of them."
7) What will be the cliffhanger? (See 4?)
Grogu gets ahold of the darksaber and nobody knows how to disarm him. Or possibly dropping it perfectly vertical on mandalore.
posted by pwnguin at 12:03 AM on April 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
Doesn't every board game night end in a rules dispute? Or is that just me?
1) Who's the other spy? (will there be another spy or was it just a tease?!)
Narratively, the purpose of a mask is to conceal a second identity, from other characters and sometimes from the audience. The armorer taking off with the wounded seems like an opportunity to defect, if Gideon has anything to offer -- access to the great furnace and beskar anyone?
2) How is Moff Gideon defeated? (There's no way our wonderful villain escapes defeat for the third time.)
Mythosaur eats him as he bathes in the living waters, as his narcissism more or less demands it in a bid to declare himself Lord of Mandelore.
3) Who among the good guys are going to bite it?
Bo-katan is killed by the Armorer, who claims the darksaber as her own, and reveals herself to be a half sister or some BS.
6) How will the Praetorian Guard be taken out. They're clearly the real big bad in this showdown on Mandalore.
Honestly it would be on brand for this show to totally forget about them in the finale. Their sole purpose was to give Paz Vizsla an honorable death after the "too many of them" storm troopers turned out to be "just enough of them."
7) What will be the cliffhanger? (See 4?)
Grogu gets ahold of the darksaber and nobody knows how to disarm him. Or possibly dropping it perfectly vertical on mandalore.
posted by pwnguin at 12:03 AM on April 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
This would have been probably a more entertaining finale.
posted by Atreides at 7:01 AM on April 19, 2023
posted by Atreides at 7:01 AM on April 19, 2023
I enjoyed this episode. It was fun, lots of fighting, some neat Star Warsy stuff like Moff Gideon's return.
All the larger Star Wars universe callbacks mean nothing to me, someone who's only watched the movies and live action teevee. I have no idea what a Thrawn is. I looked to Wookiepedia to learn he's actually Mitth'raw'nuruodo and there's literally a 100,000 word article about him summarizing various mediocre novels and, uh, nah. I accept Star Wars: Rebels is fair game for material but I literally have no idea who the guy matters. It doesn't matter much, they set him up fairly well this episode, but the Shadow Council thing is the far more interesting bit of lore to me right now.
Mecha-Grogu is grotesque. Not just because of the desecration of IG-11's corpse, there's a certain grim humor in how Star Wars droids are treated like machines. Mostly because this season has absolutely no idea what to do with Grogu. He's just along for the ride, basically irrelevant after being the center of the show the first two seasons. So now they've put him in an adult-sized body, presumably armed, and given instructions like "try to keep up" as his protectors are fleeing for their lives from the highly trained Empire stormtroopers. Uh, really?
Grogu's shtick with the Yes/No button is going to get old very quickly. They did it better on Breaking Bad. And now I'm imagining a Darth Fring vs. Jedi Salamanca fight.
posted by Nelson at 7:07 AM on April 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
All the larger Star Wars universe callbacks mean nothing to me, someone who's only watched the movies and live action teevee. I have no idea what a Thrawn is. I looked to Wookiepedia to learn he's actually Mitth'raw'nuruodo and there's literally a 100,000 word article about him summarizing various mediocre novels and, uh, nah. I accept Star Wars: Rebels is fair game for material but I literally have no idea who the guy matters. It doesn't matter much, they set him up fairly well this episode, but the Shadow Council thing is the far more interesting bit of lore to me right now.
Mecha-Grogu is grotesque. Not just because of the desecration of IG-11's corpse, there's a certain grim humor in how Star Wars droids are treated like machines. Mostly because this season has absolutely no idea what to do with Grogu. He's just along for the ride, basically irrelevant after being the center of the show the first two seasons. So now they've put him in an adult-sized body, presumably armed, and given instructions like "try to keep up" as his protectors are fleeing for their lives from the highly trained Empire stormtroopers. Uh, really?
Grogu's shtick with the Yes/No button is going to get old very quickly. They did it better on Breaking Bad. And now I'm imagining a Darth Fring vs. Jedi Salamanca fight.
posted by Nelson at 7:07 AM on April 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
Yes, it's totally fair to introduce a new character who is an easter egg for those who have seen or read other media, while being unknown to those who haven't. But you have to provide enough about that character to make it worthwhile for those who haven't seen or read anything else. Just saying the word "Thrawn" in a few episodes ain't it.
I'm getting really tired of the approach of "well, you CAN approach these new characters and situations cold, but the experience is much richer if you've already watched 50+ hours of Clone Wars and two whole seasons of Rebels." It's irritating and exclusionary. The Bo-Katan reveal last season meant nothing to me, and while they've done a fair job at building up her character, I'm still irritated at the nudge-nudge-wink-wink to the "true" fans. And I was REALLY irritated to learn that Mando Season 2.5 took place in three episodes of Boba Fett, a show I had zero interest in watching. Who does that?
I'm worried that this is Dave Filoni operating under the assumption that Star Wars fans binge every conceivable Star Wars media, so anything is fair game. I think this will ultimately backfire, as it has begun to do in the MCU. I've never even seen Infinity War and Endgame because I was so far behind in the movies by the time they came out (and most of the plot points have been spoiled) that there is no point in catching up.
As a Star Wars fan, I'm most excited about the "first Jedi" thing in the works because, presumably, it can't possibly refer back to anyone else. But if there is a single character in that movie named Skywalker or Palpatine or Kryse or whatever, I'm going to be pissed.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 9:06 AM on April 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
I'm getting really tired of the approach of "well, you CAN approach these new characters and situations cold, but the experience is much richer if you've already watched 50+ hours of Clone Wars and two whole seasons of Rebels." It's irritating and exclusionary. The Bo-Katan reveal last season meant nothing to me, and while they've done a fair job at building up her character, I'm still irritated at the nudge-nudge-wink-wink to the "true" fans. And I was REALLY irritated to learn that Mando Season 2.5 took place in three episodes of Boba Fett, a show I had zero interest in watching. Who does that?
I'm worried that this is Dave Filoni operating under the assumption that Star Wars fans binge every conceivable Star Wars media, so anything is fair game. I think this will ultimately backfire, as it has begun to do in the MCU. I've never even seen Infinity War and Endgame because I was so far behind in the movies by the time they came out (and most of the plot points have been spoiled) that there is no point in catching up.
As a Star Wars fan, I'm most excited about the "first Jedi" thing in the works because, presumably, it can't possibly refer back to anyone else. But if there is a single character in that movie named Skywalker or Palpatine or Kryse or whatever, I'm going to be pissed.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 9:06 AM on April 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
I have no idea what a Thrawn is. I looked to Wookiepedia to learn he's actually Mitth'raw'nuruodo and there's literally a 100,000 word article about him summarizing various mediocre novels and, uh, nah. I accept Star Wars: Rebels is fair game for material but I literally have no idea who the guy matters.
It's just a name drop for the next Star War. He was in Rebels, and he'll be in Ahsoka's new show.
posted by Fleebnork at 9:41 AM on April 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
It's just a name drop for the next Star War. He was in Rebels, and he'll be in Ahsoka's new show.
posted by Fleebnork at 9:41 AM on April 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
I mean, good episode and all, but...Hey! Let’s run after the ambush party down this very obviously brand-new empire-style corridor on a supposedly dead planet! Yeah! That can’t possibly be a trap! Nossirree!
I missed it, I guess. Who were the spies?
posted by Thorzdad at 12:10 PM on April 22, 2023
I missed it, I guess. Who were the spies?
posted by Thorzdad at 12:10 PM on April 22, 2023
I missed it, I guess. Who were the spies?
Guessing about spies in the Mandalorian ranks was entirely fan speculation and it didn't pan out.
posted by Fleebnork at 12:12 PM on April 22, 2023
Guessing about spies in the Mandalorian ranks was entirely fan speculation and it didn't pan out.
posted by Fleebnork at 12:12 PM on April 22, 2023
There’s been speculation that the Spies were a Torah reference. There were 12 Mandalorians sent to scout ahead.
posted by 1970s Antihero at 12:25 PM on April 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by 1970s Antihero at 12:25 PM on April 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
Oooh I like that Spies theory!
posted by TheophileEscargot at 12:42 PM on April 22, 2023
posted by TheophileEscargot at 12:42 PM on April 22, 2023
The idea there was more than one literal spy was because the show's episode titles have always been very literal. So Spies, plur, more than one, thus if we have Kane there must be another. Right now, the Torah reference theory is the best explanation!
That or the other spy was just the friends we made along the way.
posted by Atreides at 6:50 AM on April 24, 2023
That or the other spy was just the friends we made along the way.
posted by Atreides at 6:50 AM on April 24, 2023
critical me: uh he is riding around in the corpse of a sentient being.
They literally put IG-11's corpse on display in the public square, in the enlightened and friendly Navarro. And they liked him.
We learned that he isn't mawkishly sentimental when he ate all of those eggs back in season one.
He was on display as an object of public veneration, like the embalmed corpse of Lenin or Mao.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 9:00 PM on April 25, 2023
They literally put IG-11's corpse on display in the public square, in the enlightened and friendly Navarro. And they liked him.
We learned that he isn't mawkishly sentimental when he ate all of those eggs back in season one.
He was on display as an object of public veneration, like the embalmed corpse of Lenin or Mao.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 9:00 PM on April 25, 2023
The Torah reference theory is all we've got, but I find it unsatisfying. It's not "spying" to send people to scope out a place they believe may be uninhabitable. No spycraft required! At best, it's "scouting". And this show frankly isn't a smart enough show to be busting out Torah references like that's a thing they've earned. Gimme a break here. Maybe that was what they meant by it, but it's like when your seven year old tries to use "heretofore" in a sentence. Nice try kids, not in your vocabulary.
So I guess the title was a red herring. But I feel it was rather cheap. So little really interesting or unexpected stuff happened this season and to name an episode to imply that anyone might not be what they appear... only to have the big non-reveal be that everyone was exactly what they appeared...? Like, it's a thing one can do, they just did it, but it feels bad to be in the audience of a show pulling that kind of trick.
I guess the real spy was the amazing community we've built here in the comments section. Thanks all for putting up with my cranky opinions this season. Hopefully season 4 gets back to basics.
posted by potrzebie at 10:37 PM on April 25, 2023 [4 favorites]
So I guess the title was a red herring. But I feel it was rather cheap. So little really interesting or unexpected stuff happened this season and to name an episode to imply that anyone might not be what they appear... only to have the big non-reveal be that everyone was exactly what they appeared...? Like, it's a thing one can do, they just did it, but it feels bad to be in the audience of a show pulling that kind of trick.
I guess the real spy was the amazing community we've built here in the comments section. Thanks all for putting up with my cranky opinions this season. Hopefully season 4 gets back to basics.
posted by potrzebie at 10:37 PM on April 25, 2023 [4 favorites]
My head canon is it was a typo / mistranslation and they meant "Spiess" or "Spieß", the German word for spear. Referring to the awesome Beskar spear that Jin had for a hot minute. Would have come in handy for stabbing Moff Gideon in the chest through that fancy beskarized armor of his.
posted by Nelson at 8:08 AM on April 26, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Nelson at 8:08 AM on April 26, 2023 [1 favorite]
Nelson, that is just the kind of bullshit close read dumb take I didn't know I needed. 100% you are correct, no need to think about this any further
posted by potrzebie at 12:11 PM on April 26, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by potrzebie at 12:11 PM on April 26, 2023 [2 favorites]
Bad baby, no squeezie!
posted by supermedusa at 7:36 PM on July 25, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by supermedusa at 7:36 PM on July 25, 2023 [2 favorites]
Coming to this a few months late, and I gotta say I'm kinda disappointed in you lot: Tabletop gamers and punmasters galore, and nobody has stepped up to deem this band of planet reclaimers "The Settlers of Bo-Katan"?
posted by DeWalt_Russ at 7:14 AM on November 7, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by DeWalt_Russ at 7:14 AM on November 7, 2023 [5 favorites]
Right, that's it. Get along. We don't have room here for brilliant jokesters like yourself. (I'm blown away by that. Noice.)
posted by Atreides at 1:13 PM on November 9, 2023
posted by Atreides at 1:13 PM on November 9, 2023
You are not logged in, either login or create an account to post comments
Meanwhile: they put the toddler in a mech. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 5:19 AM on April 12, 2023 [14 favorites]