Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.: 4,722 Hours
October 28, 2015 6:33 AM - Season 3, Episode 5 - Subscribe
In the best episode of SHIELD ever, we see Simmons' entire stay on the mystery planet, and what she found there, and why she needs to go back.
Simmons has the world's longest charged phone (thanks, Fitz!), and she survives on the planet by finding one pond and having to hunt for the inhabitants of it to eat. Until she's discovered by Will, an astronaut/test pilot for 2001 who got sent there by NASA. Will's crew all went insane after going into what he calls the "no fly zone," which he doesn't want Simmons to go into. The two eventually become friends and live in the hole Will's established with his equipment. Simmons eventually finds a sextant and figures out how to find when and where the next portal will open up, but it turns out to be too far for them to get into and their backup idea of throwing a "message in a bottle" just misses the hole. Darn it.
Eventually Simmons is rescued and Will doesn't make it, which is how she comes to tell Fitz why she needs to go back. Fitz gets to work on that. Meanwhile, Will's still alive on the planet and throws away his gun with his one bullet left, embracing hope and that she'll come back.
Seriously, best episode of this series ever. Amazeballs.
Simmons has the world's longest charged phone (thanks, Fitz!), and she survives on the planet by finding one pond and having to hunt for the inhabitants of it to eat. Until she's discovered by Will, an astronaut/test pilot for 2001 who got sent there by NASA. Will's crew all went insane after going into what he calls the "no fly zone," which he doesn't want Simmons to go into. The two eventually become friends and live in the hole Will's established with his equipment. Simmons eventually finds a sextant and figures out how to find when and where the next portal will open up, but it turns out to be too far for them to get into and their backup idea of throwing a "message in a bottle" just misses the hole. Darn it.
Eventually Simmons is rescued and Will doesn't make it, which is how she comes to tell Fitz why she needs to go back. Fitz gets to work on that. Meanwhile, Will's still alive on the planet and throws away his gun with his one bullet left, embracing hope and that she'll come back.
Seriously, best episode of this series ever. Amazeballs.
This was a great episode that I don't think can be properly judged for a while. If all the effort they put into it is a permanent end to the will-they-won't-they and Fitz and Simmons are best friends, it is a real high point in genre television breaking format. If it is just the middle to late stage romantic complication to their relationship, it is great tv with an eye-roll for a denouement.
Did anyone else wonder if Will was a reliable narrator?
Yeah, what happened to his crew or that he is something else entirely is pretty up in the air in terms of a universe of shape shifting, illusion and mind control.
posted by humans are superior! at 8:26 AM on October 28, 2015 [2 favorites]
Did anyone else wonder if Will was a reliable narrator?
Yeah, what happened to his crew or that he is something else entirely is pretty up in the air in terms of a universe of shape shifting, illusion and mind control.
posted by humans are superior! at 8:26 AM on October 28, 2015 [2 favorites]
Agreed that this was the best ep ever, and I absolutely love that Simmons stayed characteristically cheerful in the worst of all possible scenarios that would've driven any ordinary person mad.
Poor Will -- or what/whomever he is -- I'm hoping he's really an astronaut stuck in horrific survival mode, and not something more insidious. I cannot imagine the hell he's gone through. Poor Simmons and Will, what a nightmare!
FITZ, YOU ARE MY FOREVER HERO.
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 8:48 AM on October 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
Poor Will -- or what/whomever he is -- I'm hoping he's really an astronaut stuck in horrific survival mode, and not something more insidious. I cannot imagine the hell he's gone through. Poor Simmons and Will, what a nightmare!
FITZ, YOU ARE MY FOREVER HERO.
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 8:48 AM on October 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
This was a really disappointing episode, filled with cliches and the now seemingly inevitable "get fitz simmons together, no pull them apart" dynamic that is just plain lazy. As soon as I saw it was handsome young man, it was obvious Simmons was gonna fall for him, despite both of them wearing the same clothing all the time.
I had hoped Simmons time on the planet had been spent hunting and being hunted, using her skills to survive and become a bit harsher of a person. Then time back on Earth would have spent finding her sweeter side again. But no, it was spent falling in love, with a bit of resourceful thinking. Hurray, original. Why she would keep that secret makes no fucking sense. She should have been yelling for Will as soon as she was through the portal, trying to get help to figure how to open the portal, Fitz or no.
At this point the moon/planet/whatever seems boring as hell, a writer's cliche drummed up at the 11th hour. Here's hoping it turns out to be something more.
I do wish the four astronauts sent through the portal had been one woman and 3 guys. But Fox probably would have sued them, 'cause lawyers ruin everything.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:21 AM on October 28, 2015 [8 favorites]
I had hoped Simmons time on the planet had been spent hunting and being hunted, using her skills to survive and become a bit harsher of a person. Then time back on Earth would have spent finding her sweeter side again. But no, it was spent falling in love, with a bit of resourceful thinking. Hurray, original. Why she would keep that secret makes no fucking sense. She should have been yelling for Will as soon as she was through the portal, trying to get help to figure how to open the portal, Fitz or no.
At this point the moon/planet/whatever seems boring as hell, a writer's cliche drummed up at the 11th hour. Here's hoping it turns out to be something more.
I do wish the four astronauts sent through the portal had been one woman and 3 guys. But Fox probably would have sued them, 'cause lawyers ruin everything.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:21 AM on October 28, 2015 [8 favorites]
moon/planet/whatever
I call it the Day-for-Night Planet.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 9:26 AM on October 28, 2015 [2 favorites]
I call it the Day-for-Night Planet.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 9:26 AM on October 28, 2015 [2 favorites]
Still wondering about Simmons' sensitivity to sound.
posted by ZeusHumms at 9:31 AM on October 28, 2015
posted by ZeusHumms at 9:31 AM on October 28, 2015
I had hoped Simmons time on the planet had been spent hunting and being hunted, using her skills to survive and become a bit harsher of a person.
This. And the episode started out that way, with her hunting that giant water plant in the tiny pool that apparently leads to the hell dimension of giant water plants or something. And then hunky and way too young to have been there 14 years astronaut guy showed up and there was much eyerolling.
Also, Will is dead, right? That's what the tag meant. They're not going to be rescuing him, but bringing through the shapeshifting evil that was chasing them.
In the best episode of SHIELD ever
This is demonstrably false. Agent May wasn't in it.
posted by eyeballkid at 10:01 AM on October 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
This. And the episode started out that way, with her hunting that giant water plant in the tiny pool that apparently leads to the hell dimension of giant water plants or something. And then hunky and way too young to have been there 14 years astronaut guy showed up and there was much eyerolling.
Also, Will is dead, right? That's what the tag meant. They're not going to be rescuing him, but bringing through the shapeshifting evil that was chasing them.
In the best episode of SHIELD ever
This is demonstrably false. Agent May wasn't in it.
posted by eyeballkid at 10:01 AM on October 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
This is demonstrably false. Agent May wasn't in it.
Don't worry lots of May for next week. I am however baffled as to how Ward could have thought that killing Andrew was a good idea, since maybe in the short term, you can manipulate May with the threat, but if you actually carry out the threat, the long term is -- May is going to kill you and all of Hydra won't be able to stop her.
Other thoughts -
I really need Simmons phone. I have to carry portable external batteries around to make it through a day, so it's clearly not going to save my ass on any alien planets.
I am really unclear on the chain of custody for the monolith. And why people keep chucking people through it with no obvious means of return -- I mean, NASA was clearly flat out lying to those guys, right? They didn't send them through with the means to figure out a return, they just promised they would figure it out on their end, good luck, bye bye? Ditto with the guys in the castle dungeon, they knew it wasn't a journey of return, so WHY DO IT.
I will be sad if Will is dead, but that seems a really likely way for the story to go.
posted by instead of three wishes at 10:11 AM on October 28, 2015 [2 favorites]
Don't worry lots of May for next week. I am however baffled as to how Ward could have thought that killing Andrew was a good idea, since maybe in the short term, you can manipulate May with the threat, but if you actually carry out the threat, the long term is -- May is going to kill you and all of Hydra won't be able to stop her.
Other thoughts -
I really need Simmons phone. I have to carry portable external batteries around to make it through a day, so it's clearly not going to save my ass on any alien planets.
I am really unclear on the chain of custody for the monolith. And why people keep chucking people through it with no obvious means of return -- I mean, NASA was clearly flat out lying to those guys, right? They didn't send them through with the means to figure out a return, they just promised they would figure it out on their end, good luck, bye bye? Ditto with the guys in the castle dungeon, they knew it wasn't a journey of return, so WHY DO IT.
I will be sad if Will is dead, but that seems a really likely way for the story to go.
posted by instead of three wishes at 10:11 AM on October 28, 2015 [2 favorites]
Also, Will is dead, right? That's what the tag meant. They're not going to be rescuing him, but bringing through the shapeshifting evil that was chasing them.
No, it sounded like he's still there, but without the bullet. He probably shot at something, maybe even hit it, but sense it seems to be force and not physical being, didn't kill it. So now he's really fucked, with Simmons gone and no way to kill himself.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 10:12 AM on October 28, 2015
No, it sounded like he's still there, but without the bullet. He probably shot at something, maybe even hit it, but sense it seems to be force and not physical being, didn't kill it. So now he's really fucked, with Simmons gone and no way to kill himself.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 10:12 AM on October 28, 2015
On the other hand, he knows at this point Simmons will move planets to get him rescued. So there's that.
Yeah, that actor did a good job, but was waaaaaaaaaaaaay too young for 14 years of abandonment. They recruit teenagers as test pilots to another planet?!
posted by jenfullmoon at 11:46 AM on October 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
Yeah, that actor did a good job, but was waaaaaaaaaaaaay too young for 14 years of abandonment. They recruit teenagers as test pilots to another planet?!
posted by jenfullmoon at 11:46 AM on October 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
I tend to doubt Will is a shape-shifting monster since he spent more than six months with Simmons and didn't eat her or steal her life-force or anything. Lots of test pilots are barely old enough to drink so the age is not that out of line.
I like that they gave Simmons a chance to show her own resourcefulness and ingenuity before Will showed up so he didn't just "rescue" her. Both Fitz and Simmons have gotten a lot more physical and dynamic opportunities than most based-on-Q nerd characters get in a story like this.
And I too want that cell phone, but probably not the radiation exposure or the risk that it would explode if I drop it.
posted by Bringer Tom at 12:16 PM on October 28, 2015
I like that they gave Simmons a chance to show her own resourcefulness and ingenuity before Will showed up so he didn't just "rescue" her. Both Fitz and Simmons have gotten a lot more physical and dynamic opportunities than most based-on-Q nerd characters get in a story like this.
And I too want that cell phone, but probably not the radiation exposure or the risk that it would explode if I drop it.
posted by Bringer Tom at 12:16 PM on October 28, 2015
Oh and as for NASA sending them through to figure out how to return from the other side, that is exactly the plot of the original movie Stargate which begat the somewhat successful series SG1.
posted by Bringer Tom at 12:20 PM on October 28, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by Bringer Tom at 12:20 PM on October 28, 2015 [4 favorites]
And why people keep chucking people through it with no obvious means of return
Somebody had to have come back through the portal, or at least found a way to send a message back. If it was only one-way, then why would NASA send survey and survival equipment? Why would the Victorians have sent sextants? If it was just a fancy way to kill people by absorbing them into the monolith, that's what it would be used for - to get rid of enemies. But somehow, someone in the distant past knew it was a gateway to somewhere else, that you survived the trip. The only way to know that would be if someone returned, or found a way to send a message back. So then it became a matter of experimentation to find a way back.
This was the first episode my wife actually sat through, and the first time she actually cared about any of the characters. That's pretty impressive, especially as it rested virtually on one character/actor.
And while the astronaut has been away 14 years, really that's only about 42 days on that planet so no wonder he hasn't aged a lot. Yeah, totally not how that works but....
posted by GhostintheMachine at 12:25 PM on October 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
Somebody had to have come back through the portal, or at least found a way to send a message back. If it was only one-way, then why would NASA send survey and survival equipment? Why would the Victorians have sent sextants? If it was just a fancy way to kill people by absorbing them into the monolith, that's what it would be used for - to get rid of enemies. But somehow, someone in the distant past knew it was a gateway to somewhere else, that you survived the trip. The only way to know that would be if someone returned, or found a way to send a message back. So then it became a matter of experimentation to find a way back.
This was the first episode my wife actually sat through, and the first time she actually cared about any of the characters. That's pretty impressive, especially as it rested virtually on one character/actor.
And while the astronaut has been away 14 years, really that's only about 42 days on that planet so no wonder he hasn't aged a lot. Yeah, totally not how that works but....
posted by GhostintheMachine at 12:25 PM on October 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
Yeah, that actor did a good job, but was waaaaaaaaaaaaay too young for 14 years of abandonment. They recruit teenagers as test pilots to another planet?!
Hopefully that's another indication that he's not who he claims to be. Yes, of course, NASA would totally send over a "protection specialist" with no idea how to operate the mission equipment....
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 12:37 PM on October 28, 2015
Hopefully that's another indication that he's not who he claims to be. Yes, of course, NASA would totally send over a "protection specialist" with no idea how to operate the mission equipment....
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 12:37 PM on October 28, 2015
In case anyone's curious, I checked and it was 147 days or 3529 hours (accounting for the end of DST) between the showing of S.O.S. on May 12 and Purpose in the Machine on October 6. So in this case time in the MCU seems to be running about 1.3 times faster than time IRL. (4722 hours is 196 days and 18 hours.)
posted by Bringer Tom at 12:45 PM on October 28, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Bringer Tom at 12:45 PM on October 28, 2015 [3 favorites]
I thought Will's line, "Welp, she's definitely real", after Simmons smacked him upside the head pretty firmly established him as an unreliable narrator. If not unreliable, then the Wookie changeling guy has pretty unlimited hallucinatory powers. Which then means parts of Simmon's experience on the blue planet could be imaginary.
Not necessarily impressed with Simmon's cell phone. Because who knows, in airplane mode, an ordinary charge just might last a couple months - it's not like anyone's actually been able to stay off the grid IRL long enough know either way.
posted by klarck at 1:01 PM on October 28, 2015
Not necessarily impressed with Simmon's cell phone. Because who knows, in airplane mode, an ordinary charge just might last a couple months - it's not like anyone's actually been able to stay off the grid IRL long enough know either way.
posted by klarck at 1:01 PM on October 28, 2015
I tend to doubt Will is a shape-shifting monster since he spent more than six months with Simmons and didn't eat her or steal her life-force or anything.
I think the theory is that IT got him after Simmons was rescued, and the Will we see last is some shape-shifting monster.
posted by Pendragon at 1:32 PM on October 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
I think the theory is that IT got him after Simmons was rescued, and the Will we see last is some shape-shifting monster.
posted by Pendragon at 1:32 PM on October 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
That or he's not a shape-shifting monster but he's ALSO not an astronaut.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 1:33 PM on October 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 1:33 PM on October 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
I think the theory is that IT got him after Simmons was rescued, and the Will we see last is some shape-shifting monster.
First Trip died, then she meant Will on the other side of the universe. Now he's been absorbed by a shape changing alien.
Fitz, you should date someone else.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:34 PM on October 28, 2015
First Trip died, then she meant Will on the other side of the universe. Now he's been absorbed by a shape changing alien.
Fitz, you should date someone else.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:34 PM on October 28, 2015
I think the "best episode ever" people and the "cliched and disappointing" people need to have a Thunderdome style cage match.
Personally I think most shows benefit from episodes which maintain a tight focus on a small number of locations and characters. There's a reason, for example, that many of the best Game of Thrones episodes are those which aren't constantly checking in on spear carrier #7 off in Whogivesashitland.
posted by Justinian at 1:41 PM on October 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
Personally I think most shows benefit from episodes which maintain a tight focus on a small number of locations and characters. There's a reason, for example, that many of the best Game of Thrones episodes are those which aren't constantly checking in on spear carrier #7 off in Whogivesashitland.
posted by Justinian at 1:41 PM on October 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
And why people keep chucking people through it with no obvious means of return
The room that they discovered and used just a couple of episodes ago to open the portal may have allowed the sextant-carrying generation of portal-crossers to traverse it both ways. But it sounds like NASA hadn't figured it out yet.
posted by jimw at 1:46 PM on October 28, 2015 [2 favorites]
The room that they discovered and used just a couple of episodes ago to open the portal may have allowed the sextant-carrying generation of portal-crossers to traverse it both ways. But it sounds like NASA hadn't figured it out yet.
posted by jimw at 1:46 PM on October 28, 2015 [2 favorites]
Personally I think most shows benefit from episodes which maintain a tight focus on a small number of locations and characters.
Changing up the tempo is usually good, but I found this episode disappointing because Simmons seemed ok on her own ("Dinner BYATCH") and that I like seeing that side of the character. She's different from the other women on the series, such as Bobbi, May or Roslind. She's not a born leader or fighter, the sort of person who projects a "don't mess me" attitude and I appreciate that difference. Yet she clearly can operate as a field agent, and seeing that side of her is always nice. So I was looking forward to seeing that other side, but instead was let down that it was mostly talking in a cave, which isn't that different from talking in a lab.
That said, I can see how this planet and Will might be the ground work for something long term, so everything may make better sense somewhere down the line. But for now, and with the hackened way the writers chose to push Simmons and Fitz apart, it just leaves a bad taste in my brain.
Nobody bats a thousand though, so there's always next week.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 2:10 PM on October 28, 2015
Changing up the tempo is usually good, but I found this episode disappointing because Simmons seemed ok on her own ("Dinner BYATCH") and that I like seeing that side of the character. She's different from the other women on the series, such as Bobbi, May or Roslind. She's not a born leader or fighter, the sort of person who projects a "don't mess me" attitude and I appreciate that difference. Yet she clearly can operate as a field agent, and seeing that side of her is always nice. So I was looking forward to seeing that other side, but instead was let down that it was mostly talking in a cave, which isn't that different from talking in a lab.
That said, I can see how this planet and Will might be the ground work for something long term, so everything may make better sense somewhere down the line. But for now, and with the hackened way the writers chose to push Simmons and Fitz apart, it just leaves a bad taste in my brain.
Nobody bats a thousand though, so there's always next week.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 2:10 PM on October 28, 2015
I admit I could do with a bit less WILL THEY OR WONT THEY action with FitzSimmons. Poop or get off the pot.
posted by Justinian at 2:11 PM on October 28, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 2:11 PM on October 28, 2015 [2 favorites]
Fitz, you should date someone else.
But Fitz has already gone through a near-death experience for her, which actually makes him the only safe person for her to date now.
Whether he's a shape-shifting monster or not I'm not having terribly optimistic thoughts about Will though.
posted by Bringer Tom at 2:12 PM on October 28, 2015
But Fitz has already gone through a near-death experience for her, which actually makes him the only safe person for her to date now.
Whether he's a shape-shifting monster or not I'm not having terribly optimistic thoughts about Will though.
posted by Bringer Tom at 2:12 PM on October 28, 2015
He was a mission specialist on a secret NASA mission at like age 17 though so he must be pretty awesome.
posted by Justinian at 2:48 PM on October 28, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 2:48 PM on October 28, 2015 [2 favorites]
He left the earth in 2001, but has been on a planet with noticeably higher gravity since then. So from his frame of reference, less than 14 years have passed.
posted by Uncle Ira at 3:03 PM on October 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Uncle Ira at 3:03 PM on October 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
So, two questions from someone who left the series at Ep. 3 with a fair amount of disappointment:
- Is it worth it for me to try and catch up to this "best episode ever"?
- When does the series pick-up? Is there a machete order for Agents of Shield?
Thanks!
posted by kandinski at 3:22 PM on October 28, 2015
- Is it worth it for me to try and catch up to this "best episode ever"?
- When does the series pick-up? Is there a machete order for Agents of Shield?
Thanks!
posted by kandinski at 3:22 PM on October 28, 2015
Is it worth it for me to try and catch up to this "best episode ever"?
This is a good series to jam by the various methods available. That will get you over the meh patches quickly and there is a lot of gold in there.
posted by Bringer Tom at 3:28 PM on October 28, 2015
This is a good series to jam by the various methods available. That will get you over the meh patches quickly and there is a lot of gold in there.
posted by Bringer Tom at 3:28 PM on October 28, 2015
The first order is the most troublesome, but yeah, there's an order for that, to get through the bulk of that: Episode 7, 12, Cap America Winter Solider, then 16-22. Then I'd watch all of Season 2, because it's pretty damn good, then onward into Season 3.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:27 PM on October 28, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:27 PM on October 28, 2015 [2 favorites]
I thought the series picked up considerably in the second half of the first season, kandinski.
posted by Justinian at 4:49 PM on October 28, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 4:49 PM on October 28, 2015 [2 favorites]
I think attempting to calculate relativistic gravitational time dilation effects in a show set within a universe containing a lightning god and magic quake powers girl is probably not the wisest thing. I was actually kind of annoyed that they went the way of having Simmons find the only other person on the desert planet and then fall in love with him. Why couldn't it have been a french-speaking woman or something -- I'd have much rather watched Simmons half-speak french and make crude hand gestures than what we got. Or had her survive all on her own (which the earlier part of the episode showed she was capable of doing).
posted by axiom at 5:01 PM on October 28, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by axiom at 5:01 PM on October 28, 2015 [5 favorites]
I'm in the "best episode evar" camp. Well maybe not best, but really excellent TV and I was spellbound. What made this work for me was Henstridge's acting, she owned the screen here. Also very tight editing. I was enthralled.
Brandon Blatcher's not wrong in that this episode was filled with cliché. But they turned some of those on their head, like the whole "we're the only two people on this planet so we better get busy" thing. I've always liked Simmons' mix of girly girl silliness and no bullshit pragmatic scientist, and it really shone through strongly here.
I love me a good bottle episode. A bit of a weird one to make right now, in the wake of Interstellar and The Martian. But I thought they pulled it off marvelously.
posted by Nelson at 9:19 PM on October 28, 2015
Brandon Blatcher's not wrong in that this episode was filled with cliché. But they turned some of those on their head, like the whole "we're the only two people on this planet so we better get busy" thing. I've always liked Simmons' mix of girly girl silliness and no bullshit pragmatic scientist, and it really shone through strongly here.
I love me a good bottle episode. A bit of a weird one to make right now, in the wake of Interstellar and The Martian. But I thought they pulled it off marvelously.
posted by Nelson at 9:19 PM on October 28, 2015
I'm holding out judgment on this one. Dear SHIELD: plz explore consensual nonmonogamy rather than setting up another fucking love triangle.
posted by rednikki at 9:38 PM on October 28, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by rednikki at 9:38 PM on October 28, 2015 [6 favorites]
The polarization on this episode is interesting. I though it was pretty good, but not the best. I share some of Brandon's concerns but felt that the first portion of her time there ameliorated some of that. Also, I totally called this scenario last week for why she would want to go back but hasn't told Fitz, so I'm pleased with myself.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 10:11 PM on October 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 10:11 PM on October 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
plz explore consensual nonmonogamy rather than setting up another fucking love triangle.
The only MCU property I can imagine this happening on is one of the Netflix shows, but even then...
Shield is too network TV, and the movies are too expensive.
posted by vibratory manner of working at 12:29 AM on October 29, 2015
The only MCU property I can imagine this happening on is one of the Netflix shows, but even then...
Shield is too network TV, and the movies are too expensive.
posted by vibratory manner of working at 12:29 AM on October 29, 2015
I just noticed on iZombie last night that they showed a scene of Ravi with his new "girlfriend" but also that he was eager to maybe meet someone at the honky-tonk. It startled me a little bit, because the way conventional television works, a character might be casually dating several people, but if we get a scene like the one in iZombie that's specifically about a character and an introduced romantic interest, then it's always implicit that they're only interested in that one person. People don't seem to date and sleep with multiple people at the same time on television unless the character is specifically written to be promiscuous and, even then, they lampshade that it's all about the sex. In TV-land, people don't date multiple people at once and in a semi-serious or developing romantic way as they explore the potential of a promising relationship (or two) -- they just sort of meet someone and then immediately fall in love in a monogamous relationship. Or they date (or sleep with) unnamed, unshown other people in a totally not serious way. It's sort of weird.
So it's not as if Simmons would need to explore some kind of full-on polyamory or anything, just that she and Fitz never actually started a real relationship and this thing with Will was under very unusual circumstances and so, in real life, I'd actually sort of expect her to want to slowly investigate how she feels about both guys. In TV-land, if they do that, they're setting up this intense love triangle conflict because, again, in TV-land people seem to go from zero to sixty instantly. It's annoying.
Or they stay at zero for fucking ever, exploiting the UST in the most annoying, most overused television trope of all time.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 1:26 AM on October 29, 2015 [2 favorites]
So it's not as if Simmons would need to explore some kind of full-on polyamory or anything, just that she and Fitz never actually started a real relationship and this thing with Will was under very unusual circumstances and so, in real life, I'd actually sort of expect her to want to slowly investigate how she feels about both guys. In TV-land, if they do that, they're setting up this intense love triangle conflict because, again, in TV-land people seem to go from zero to sixty instantly. It's annoying.
Or they stay at zero for fucking ever, exploiting the UST in the most annoying, most overused television trope of all time.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 1:26 AM on October 29, 2015 [2 favorites]
I think attempting to calculate relativistic gravitational time dilation effects in a show set within a universe containing a lightning god and magic quake powers girl is probably not the wisest thing.
Also, Holotables.
posted by zarq at 7:23 AM on October 29, 2015
Also, Holotables.
posted by zarq at 7:23 AM on October 29, 2015
I really was riveted by this as well. Simmons' combination of perky optimism with the steel that's required to go back into the ALIEN POOL THAT NEARLY ATE YOU so you can kill the monster and turn the tables...so great. Her expression facing the first chunk of tentacle before she bit into it was fantastic.
I do wish the triangle weren't so triangle-y...I'd rather have had Simmons stick with her earlier thoughts of "we're best friends and incredibly important to each other, but it's not romantic love." And really, if (when, probably) she and Fitz get Will back home, she should probably just take some time to figure out what her relationship is with both these guys when they're not under constant science fiction peril. Of course, this being a tv show, that day may never come.
On the other hand, hey - I'm always up for a good OT3. Why not have it all, Simmons?
posted by PussKillian at 8:01 AM on October 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
I do wish the triangle weren't so triangle-y...I'd rather have had Simmons stick with her earlier thoughts of "we're best friends and incredibly important to each other, but it's not romantic love." And really, if (when, probably) she and Fitz get Will back home, she should probably just take some time to figure out what her relationship is with both these guys when they're not under constant science fiction peril. Of course, this being a tv show, that day may never come.
On the other hand, hey - I'm always up for a good OT3. Why not have it all, Simmons?
posted by PussKillian at 8:01 AM on October 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
I enjoyed this episode - not sure I would call it the best SHIELD ever - but I did enjoy it. Was it a little tropey in the use of the "will Fitz and Simmons ever get together?!?!???" card? Yeah, but I don't mind it too much in a comic book show. I do hope they explore it a bit more, if/when Will gets back to Earth, in terms of how Simmons feels about both. It might also be nice for them to show both Fitz and Simmons as mature enough people to recognize that there was the potential for something to happen with them, but life/fate/the universe prevented it, and they can still work closely together and be friends. But something nice needs to happen for Fitz at some point, because I'm starting to feel like the show is dumping on him.
Anyways, I like bottle episodes and I'm always impressed when an ensemble show does one. I kept expecting the show to cut to scenes of Simmons telling her story while Fitz, Coulson and Bobbi interjected with questions, but they kept to Simmons with only a tiny bit of Fitz (and Fitz, man, lots of respect and I hope you aren't turning into the O'Brien of SHIELD).
While Will has a lot of question marks around him, it was some simple touches - like the subtle disappointment in his face as he's watching Simmons watch the birthday video and talking about Fitz - that has me thinking he's real and ok. If he were the monster, I'm not sure why he would appear to Simmons as an astronaut in the final moments. The open question is whether or not he's now gone insane, like the other members of his crew.
Hoping for a great episode where Fitz, Simmons, Coulson, and Bobbi get to the planet and pull Will back to Earth after facing off with whatever the fuck alien thing is there. If Bobbi and Hunter are about to get spun off, Will might make an interesting new member of the team.
posted by nubs at 9:04 AM on October 29, 2015
Anyways, I like bottle episodes and I'm always impressed when an ensemble show does one. I kept expecting the show to cut to scenes of Simmons telling her story while Fitz, Coulson and Bobbi interjected with questions, but they kept to Simmons with only a tiny bit of Fitz (and Fitz, man, lots of respect and I hope you aren't turning into the O'Brien of SHIELD).
While Will has a lot of question marks around him, it was some simple touches - like the subtle disappointment in his face as he's watching Simmons watch the birthday video and talking about Fitz - that has me thinking he's real and ok. If he were the monster, I'm not sure why he would appear to Simmons as an astronaut in the final moments. The open question is whether or not he's now gone insane, like the other members of his crew.
Hoping for a great episode where Fitz, Simmons, Coulson, and Bobbi get to the planet and pull Will back to Earth after facing off with whatever the fuck alien thing is there. If Bobbi and Hunter are about to get spun off, Will might make an interesting new member of the team.
posted by nubs at 9:04 AM on October 29, 2015
Oddly, my assumption for Will's appearance is that people don't age on that planet. They're kept alive until they're no longer amusing, and then get suicided, eaten or sandstorm guy-ed.
posted by happyroach at 10:21 AM on October 29, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by happyroach at 10:21 AM on October 29, 2015 [4 favorites]
Jemma's everlasting phone DID remind me of Night Vale's desert otherworld....
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 11:01 AM on October 29, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 11:01 AM on October 29, 2015 [3 favorites]
I was TOTALLY thinking of Night Vale's desert otherworld, and kept wondering if she'd unexpectedly get a text message.
posted by PussKillian at 12:07 PM on October 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by PussKillian at 12:07 PM on October 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
Fitz had rewired the battery for her so it'd last longer.
posted by Mogur at 3:31 AM on November 1, 2015
posted by Mogur at 3:31 AM on November 1, 2015
Lots of test pilots are barely old enough to drink so the age is not that out of line.
The youngest ever American astronaut was Sally Ride at age 32, and I don't think you would send through an unseasoned newbie as the commander of your first extra solar mission in the history of mankind (as far as NASA knew).
Dillion Casey, who played Will, was born in 1983. He literally only turned 32 a couple of days ago.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 4:20 AM on November 1, 2015
The youngest ever American astronaut was Sally Ride at age 32, and I don't think you would send through an unseasoned newbie as the commander of your first extra solar mission in the history of mankind (as far as NASA knew).
Dillion Casey, who played Will, was born in 1983. He literally only turned 32 a couple of days ago.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 4:20 AM on November 1, 2015
Yes, of course, NASA would totally send over a "protection specialist" with no idea how to operate the mission equipment....
Here's my question; if you don't need them to fly a spaceship, why recruit a test pilot for this mission? If his role was lead the mission and keep the scientists safe on the ground, and you wanted someone military, wouldn't you recruit and train someone with ground-based training? Like, an Army or Marine dude?
And don't pilots need to be really good at maths?
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 4:24 AM on November 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
Here's my question; if you don't need them to fly a spaceship, why recruit a test pilot for this mission? If his role was lead the mission and keep the scientists safe on the ground, and you wanted someone military, wouldn't you recruit and train someone with ground-based training? Like, an Army or Marine dude?
And don't pilots need to be really good at maths?
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 4:24 AM on November 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
Here's my question; if you don't need them to fly a spaceship, why recruit a test pilot for this mission?
Sending a seasoned military test pilot makes some sort of sense, as its easier to teach a pilot ground skills rather than teaching a soldier how to fly. Plus, if they have to come across any flying ships (not an outlandish idea), there's someone around who knows the physics of flying and thus offer a leg up on getting that alien spaceship in the air and back down safely.
Plus, those rugged good looks.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:02 AM on November 1, 2015
Sending a seasoned military test pilot makes some sort of sense, as its easier to teach a pilot ground skills rather than teaching a soldier how to fly. Plus, if they have to come across any flying ships (not an outlandish idea), there's someone around who knows the physics of flying and thus offer a leg up on getting that alien spaceship in the air and back down safely.
Plus, those rugged good looks.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:02 AM on November 1, 2015
I get the sense that at least part of his qualification was his willingness to volunteer for a suicide mission.
posted by Mogur at 11:00 AM on November 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Mogur at 11:00 AM on November 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
I realize I am coming to this thread very late, but I want to state for the record that the timestamps at the bottom were stupid. And Jemma did not strike me as a very good scientist.
She doesn't mark the location where she came through. That'd be the *first* thing I'd try to do, as soon as the portal disappeared. And then, confident that I could find my way back again, I'd be off immediately looking for water. Not standing around uselessly for 72 hours or whatever it is before she *finally* gets moving. I think she makes a comment about suriving 1000 hours without water? No way. That is almost six WEEKS. And she is on a dry planet, physically exerting herself. She'd be lucky to last three days. And she'd be non-functional a long time before she died. Ditto for food. I forget how long they had her go without eating, but I was again thinking "Even if she could survive that long, no way she'd still be up and alert and doing things."
Oh, and the food she does find... Why can she digest it? Shouldn't she be wondering about that? I mean, we can't even digest grass, and that evolved right here on Earth with us, and serves as a major food source for many of our mammal relatives, but we can't break it down properly. And if this alien thing just happens to be made out of proteins and carbohydrates and fats that human bodies can digest, it's still quite a coincidence that it doesn't have any toxins, and it does have all the vitamins and minerals she needs to survive for months and months. (Or years in Will's case, unless he brought along a bottle of multivitamins like Matt Damon did.)
Also? There is oxygen in the atmosphere. Oxygen will chemically react with just about anything, so free oxygen in the air doesn't last long if it is not being replaced by plants (which break about carbon dioxide to make it.) So if I were Jemma, I'd be immediately thinking "Where are the plants? And how do they make the oxygen without sunlight to drive the photosynthesis?"
I guess "The Martian" has raised my standards for things like this. She's supposed to be a scientist! She wastes *so much time*! I decided I would be much happier with the whole thing if I ignored the elapsed time labels and assumed the whole first part, until she starts eating the pond-things, lasts about a day and a half, rather than however many *weeks* the show says it lasts. And if she found some Earth plants (maybe citrus plants, so she doesn't get scurvy from the lack of vitamin C) planted by those NASA guys, genetically engineered to grow with less light, I guess. Humans have been coming to this planet for years, and she sort of knows that already, so why not?
Oh, and the wine. Why the hell would you even try to drink that? Distill the alcohol out of it, and keep it as a disinfectant in case you ever get wounded, seeing as there are no antibiotics or other medications on this stupid planet.
Finally, and this is not a science one but more of a character one... I thought it was a little weird that Will did not make a move on her at all until she threw herself into his arms. I mean, that's gentlemanly and all, but they are literally the only two people in the entire world, and they are living together for something like six months. I would've liked to have seen him try to hit on her politely, or go in for the kiss, and see her tell him, "No, I've got a sort-of boyfriend but not really" and then see him be kind of... frustrated... because he does not believe she will ever see sort-of boyfriend again and also he has been alone for fourteen years. I would like to see her also consider this aspect of the situation. She and Fitz haven't even been on their first date yet.
All that said, I still liked the episode overall. Pretending the elapsed time for the whole story is about three weeks rather than six months solves most of the problems mentioned above. And I am a sucker for "stranded on a desert island" stories, with that inevitable tension between hope and despair. And I like the characters.
But damn, the blue filter did not make it look like night-time at all. You could see the strong, high-contrast shadows that everything cast. Okay, I'm done.
posted by OnceUponATime at 1:41 PM on November 4, 2015
She doesn't mark the location where she came through. That'd be the *first* thing I'd try to do, as soon as the portal disappeared. And then, confident that I could find my way back again, I'd be off immediately looking for water. Not standing around uselessly for 72 hours or whatever it is before she *finally* gets moving. I think she makes a comment about suriving 1000 hours without water? No way. That is almost six WEEKS. And she is on a dry planet, physically exerting herself. She'd be lucky to last three days. And she'd be non-functional a long time before she died. Ditto for food. I forget how long they had her go without eating, but I was again thinking "Even if she could survive that long, no way she'd still be up and alert and doing things."
Oh, and the food she does find... Why can she digest it? Shouldn't she be wondering about that? I mean, we can't even digest grass, and that evolved right here on Earth with us, and serves as a major food source for many of our mammal relatives, but we can't break it down properly. And if this alien thing just happens to be made out of proteins and carbohydrates and fats that human bodies can digest, it's still quite a coincidence that it doesn't have any toxins, and it does have all the vitamins and minerals she needs to survive for months and months. (Or years in Will's case, unless he brought along a bottle of multivitamins like Matt Damon did.)
Also? There is oxygen in the atmosphere. Oxygen will chemically react with just about anything, so free oxygen in the air doesn't last long if it is not being replaced by plants (which break about carbon dioxide to make it.) So if I were Jemma, I'd be immediately thinking "Where are the plants? And how do they make the oxygen without sunlight to drive the photosynthesis?"
I guess "The Martian" has raised my standards for things like this. She's supposed to be a scientist! She wastes *so much time*! I decided I would be much happier with the whole thing if I ignored the elapsed time labels and assumed the whole first part, until she starts eating the pond-things, lasts about a day and a half, rather than however many *weeks* the show says it lasts. And if she found some Earth plants (maybe citrus plants, so she doesn't get scurvy from the lack of vitamin C) planted by those NASA guys, genetically engineered to grow with less light, I guess. Humans have been coming to this planet for years, and she sort of knows that already, so why not?
Oh, and the wine. Why the hell would you even try to drink that? Distill the alcohol out of it, and keep it as a disinfectant in case you ever get wounded, seeing as there are no antibiotics or other medications on this stupid planet.
Finally, and this is not a science one but more of a character one... I thought it was a little weird that Will did not make a move on her at all until she threw herself into his arms. I mean, that's gentlemanly and all, but they are literally the only two people in the entire world, and they are living together for something like six months. I would've liked to have seen him try to hit on her politely, or go in for the kiss, and see her tell him, "No, I've got a sort-of boyfriend but not really" and then see him be kind of... frustrated... because he does not believe she will ever see sort-of boyfriend again and also he has been alone for fourteen years. I would like to see her also consider this aspect of the situation. She and Fitz haven't even been on their first date yet.
All that said, I still liked the episode overall. Pretending the elapsed time for the whole story is about three weeks rather than six months solves most of the problems mentioned above. And I am a sucker for "stranded on a desert island" stories, with that inevitable tension between hope and despair. And I like the characters.
But damn, the blue filter did not make it look like night-time at all. You could see the strong, high-contrast shadows that everything cast. Okay, I'm done.
posted by OnceUponATime at 1:41 PM on November 4, 2015
Wait, I'm not done. Once it's implied that she and Will are getting it on, I really wanted there to be a short conversation about birth control. Because if she was on the pill, well, she's not any more. And this planet just doesn't seem like a good neighborhood to raise kids in. Maybe she's got an IUD? Which also stops her from getting her period, I hope, because "It can smell blood?"
Okay, NOW I'm done.
posted by OnceUponATime at 1:49 PM on November 4, 2015 [3 favorites]
Okay, NOW I'm done.
posted by OnceUponATime at 1:49 PM on November 4, 2015 [3 favorites]
I agree with much of your rant about the science, although honestly, well, it's a funny book movie with some occasional teevee science. I fear none of the episodes would stand up to much scrutiny. You're right, it's no The Martian. Clearly you're a true fan of the show to care so much!
But on the point of the water, it starts with her saying she can only survive 100 hours without water. They got that about right. Was a bit cheesy having her stumble into the water at exactly 100 hours though.
posted by Nelson at 2:20 PM on November 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
But on the point of the water, it starts with her saying she can only survive 100 hours without water. They got that about right. Was a bit cheesy having her stumble into the water at exactly 100 hours though.
posted by Nelson at 2:20 PM on November 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
Well, a hundred hours is almost reasonable. That makes me feel a lot better. (Though still, I'd rather have seen her find water by following a line of vegetation, or looking for the lowest terrain, or digging a well, rather than just stumbling across it...)
I'm a scientist (and a woman), and I keep trying to identify with Simmons because the only other female scientists I watch on TV are on the Big Bang Theory, and are not nearly as glamorous as Agent Jemma Simmons. I like that she gets a character arc, and isn't stuck just supplying magic spy-gizmos. And I'm a Whedon fan-girl from way back, so yeah, I like the show.
It's just... they finally give me a Simmons episode, and they get the science so wrong? Must go on the internet and vent my nerd rage! :-)
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:59 PM on November 4, 2015 [3 favorites]
I'm a scientist (and a woman), and I keep trying to identify with Simmons because the only other female scientists I watch on TV are on the Big Bang Theory, and are not nearly as glamorous as Agent Jemma Simmons. I like that she gets a character arc, and isn't stuck just supplying magic spy-gizmos. And I'm a Whedon fan-girl from way back, so yeah, I like the show.
It's just... they finally give me a Simmons episode, and they get the science so wrong? Must go on the internet and vent my nerd rage! :-)
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:59 PM on November 4, 2015 [3 favorites]
OnceUponATime, you have to remember that the MCU is a comic book universe. Comic book science isn't science, and comic book physics isn't physics, and comic book biology isn't biology. You have to remember that the MCU also has a habitable world which happens to be the head of a giant dead humanoid godlike being which is being mined for its neural matter. And while you might wonder how they could ever tie Guardians of the Galaxy in with Shield and Avengers, trust me, they're planning to do it.
Within the dynamics of comic book science, Fitz and Simmons are a couple of the best science characters ever. Yes they get all the science wrong in RL terms, but what they do much better is not relegating either Fitz or Simmons to Q-like roles of handing cool shit to the other characters to use in the real action sequences. They've both been in the thick of it and taken real damage like all the other characters, and they get respect for that. And that's important because in a comic book, if you're not in peril once in awhile you're not a real character.
posted by Bringer Tom at 7:03 PM on November 6, 2015
Within the dynamics of comic book science, Fitz and Simmons are a couple of the best science characters ever. Yes they get all the science wrong in RL terms, but what they do much better is not relegating either Fitz or Simmons to Q-like roles of handing cool shit to the other characters to use in the real action sequences. They've both been in the thick of it and taken real damage like all the other characters, and they get respect for that. And that's important because in a comic book, if you're not in peril once in awhile you're not a real character.
posted by Bringer Tom at 7:03 PM on November 6, 2015
I'm catching up on shield so just watched this. What if what came back with Fitz isn't actually Simons? Or is an infected Simons?
posted by CMcG at 12:29 PM on March 19, 2016
posted by CMcG at 12:29 PM on March 19, 2016
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Did anyone else wonder if Will was a reliable narrator? Who's to say his crew went insane, and not him?
posted by GhostintheMachine at 7:29 AM on October 28, 2015 [5 favorites]