Black Mirror: Nosedive
October 21, 2016 8:14 PM - Season 3, Episode 1 - Subscribe
A social satire about identity in the social media age.
This was so .....Mormon Instagram? Like if Kinfolk ruled the world. I liked its specific thing about how woman have to compete and never be seen competing and never have visible negative emotions.
posted by The Whelk at 8:39 PM on October 21, 2016 [17 favorites]
posted by The Whelk at 8:39 PM on October 21, 2016 [17 favorites]
Also SUPER Gen X POV. It all screams "I'm turning 50 shortlyish"
posted by The Whelk at 8:49 PM on October 21, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by The Whelk at 8:49 PM on October 21, 2016 [4 favorites]
Wow. In many ways, I couldn't help but think of the Meow-Meow Beans episode of Community. I can't decide which one I like better, but I am giving five stars to both.
- The commitment to pastel was nothing short of amazing.
- Bryce Dallas Howard was perfectly cast. As were Alice Eve and Cherry Jones.
- I laughed like a maniac at the end.
I remain horrified by the blatancy of services and healthcare and wealth and even simple access being denied based on social stratification, but really that's not all that far from the truth.
Was that fancy apartment the same one from the Christmas episode, all wood and sunlight?
posted by mochapickle at 10:55 PM on October 21, 2016 [5 favorites]
- The commitment to pastel was nothing short of amazing.
- Bryce Dallas Howard was perfectly cast. As were Alice Eve and Cherry Jones.
- I laughed like a maniac at the end.
I remain horrified by the blatancy of services and healthcare and wealth and even simple access being denied based on social stratification, but really that's not all that far from the truth.
Was that fancy apartment the same one from the Christmas episode, all wood and sunlight?
posted by mochapickle at 10:55 PM on October 21, 2016 [5 favorites]
Funnily enough, I was at a conference just the other day where there was a brief mention of Sesame Credit.
"By 2020, everyone in China will be enrolled in a vast national database that compiles fiscal and government information, including minor traffic violations, and distils it into a single number ranking each citizen."posted by o seasons o castles at 3:00 AM on October 22, 2016 [7 favorites]
My husband could not cope with this episode, claiming it was "too true". He's seen the artificiality of interchanges between women, or women and others, when social stratification is a thing (admittedly I have been known to greet someone with that facade of happy ingratiation, then turned to my husband and rolled my eyes about the other person).
I loved it and recognised so many parallels where that would be a real future scenario, like the meow-meow beans on Community that mochapickle mentioned. And the way that, once you start on that downward trend, it's nearly impossible to get out of it, which is much like poverty across history.
posted by tracicle at 4:31 AM on October 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
I loved it and recognised so many parallels where that would be a real future scenario, like the meow-meow beans on Community that mochapickle mentioned. And the way that, once you start on that downward trend, it's nearly impossible to get out of it, which is much like poverty across history.
posted by tracicle at 4:31 AM on October 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
The weird glint of hope when she finds that guy at the end... that was magnificent.
I'd been in such a state waiting to see what mean ol' Charlie Brooker was going to do to this poor woman.
I did not expect hope. Not even sideways, warped hope.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 6:53 AM on October 22, 2016 [9 favorites]
I'd been in such a state waiting to see what mean ol' Charlie Brooker was going to do to this poor woman.
I did not expect hope. Not even sideways, warped hope.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 6:53 AM on October 22, 2016 [9 favorites]
As it gradually developed I thought it was going to be a deliberately-straightforward death march towards the inevitable. BDH was great, but I though the other main characters were under-developed. The simplicity of the narrative rewards consideration though. Never mind favourites or likes, is there honestly any great difference between their whuffie and our money as a metric of human value?
I loved the whole-hearted trucker lady, but I loved more that end sequence where instead of falling into despair or loving Big Brother our protagonist found a like-mind of sorts. Let's transgress! Let's say all the things that can't be said! Let's prove that the system we swim in doesn't hold any more sway that we allow it to!
I love these Black Mirrors as near-future social sci-fi, it was interesting to note that the NetFlix blurb expressly described it as "sci-fi" whereas it was portrayed more as social satire on Channel 4 in the UK.
posted by comealongpole at 2:04 PM on October 22, 2016 [6 favorites]
I loved the whole-hearted trucker lady, but I loved more that end sequence where instead of falling into despair or loving Big Brother our protagonist found a like-mind of sorts. Let's transgress! Let's say all the things that can't be said! Let's prove that the system we swim in doesn't hold any more sway that we allow it to!
I love these Black Mirrors as near-future social sci-fi, it was interesting to note that the NetFlix blurb expressly described it as "sci-fi" whereas it was portrayed more as social satire on Channel 4 in the UK.
posted by comealongpole at 2:04 PM on October 22, 2016 [6 favorites]
WELL THAT CERTAINLY WAS ANXIETY INDUCING
posted by Space Kitty at 5:23 PM on October 22, 2016 [14 favorites]
posted by Space Kitty at 5:23 PM on October 22, 2016 [14 favorites]
No one's mentioned that this episode was written by the awesome and talented Rashida Jones and Michael Schur (co-creator of Parks and Recreation.)
posted by bluecore at 5:55 PM on October 22, 2016 [14 favorites]
posted by bluecore at 5:55 PM on October 22, 2016 [14 favorites]
I loved this episode. That terrible giggle she had to practice in the mirror. I just kept thinking to myself, I'd be a 1.5 at best but I'd drive myself mad every now and then trying to make it go up.
posted by h00py at 7:31 PM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by h00py at 7:31 PM on October 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
My wife offered a great observation about the theme of this episode. Unfortunately no one in this thread has enough favorites for me to relate it.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:54 PM on October 22, 2016 [20 favorites]
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:54 PM on October 22, 2016 [20 favorites]
It reminded me of the episode of This American Life about teenage girls who devote most of their lives to liking each other on Instagram: Finding the Self in Selfie.
posted by fuse theorem at 7:20 AM on October 23, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by fuse theorem at 7:20 AM on October 23, 2016 [7 favorites]
The way the downvote noise was incorporated into the score of the episode was a nice touch that added to the anxiety buildup. Black Mirror is back.
posted by guiseroom at 11:42 AM on October 23, 2016 [12 favorites]
posted by guiseroom at 11:42 AM on October 23, 2016 [12 favorites]
This freaking show. I feel different watching it than anything else, ever, I don't know if it's an uncanny valley effect from near-future sci-fi or it's just a unique mood that the runners build.
I thought the didactics were a little much at points, and I think the character development was a side-effect of having to pack so much into the episode. The path from 4.2 to 2.8 is an arduous one!
posted by rhizome at 2:09 PM on October 23, 2016
I thought the didactics were a little much at points, and I think the character development was a side-effect of having to pack so much into the episode. The path from 4.2 to 2.8 is an arduous one!
posted by rhizome at 2:09 PM on October 23, 2016
I usually say I don't trust people who like everything and have replaced a personality by enumerating all the things they love, and never expressing (or allow others) other feelings because "they don't need negativity in their lives". I call them Beige People, because at their attempt to be all colours of the rainbow, they are a pale, uncontrasted version of it.
This was an episode filled with beige people. Except they are all pastel. Which works a lot better in my metaphor. This is why I'm not Charlie Brooker (if the pastels were in his story, not a for-TV decision)
posted by lmfsilva at 3:13 PM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
This was an episode filled with beige people. Except they are all pastel. Which works a lot better in my metaphor. This is why I'm not Charlie Brooker (if the pastels were in his story, not a for-TV decision)
posted by lmfsilva at 3:13 PM on October 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
I have met people who perform happiness/beauty/etc. on social media and are basically Naomi. It's depressing as fuck.
posted by a strong female character at 7:43 PM on October 23, 2016
posted by a strong female character at 7:43 PM on October 23, 2016
I loved the commitment to pastel as well, especially since Bryce Dallas Howard's brother was the only one NOT wearing pastel... or pants, sometimes.
I wondered if BDH wound up in jail because she transgressed against the 4.5+s or because her score fell too low. What did you all think?
posted by emilynoa at 7:32 AM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
I wondered if BDH wound up in jail because she transgressed against the 4.5+s or because her score fell too low. What did you all think?
posted by emilynoa at 7:32 AM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
How the fuck do people binge watch THIS show?
I mean, I love it. I think it's one of the very finest things on tv. But how can your heart take more than one of these in a single day? Or week, even.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:25 AM on October 24, 2016 [19 favorites]
I mean, I love it. I think it's one of the very finest things on tv. But how can your heart take more than one of these in a single day? Or week, even.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:25 AM on October 24, 2016 [19 favorites]
What did you all think?
Both? Keeping in tune with the social strata allegory, I guess if she was a 4.x she would get a slap on the wrist, like some community service or a suspended sentence. Since her status was of a nobody, they threw her in jail.
posted by lmfsilva at 9:28 AM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
Both? Keeping in tune with the social strata allegory, I guess if she was a 4.x she would get a slap on the wrist, like some community service or a suspended sentence. Since her status was of a nobody, they threw her in jail.
posted by lmfsilva at 9:28 AM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
Plus she was trespassing on fenced land whose gate had a big "3.8+ only" sign on an armed guard tower.
posted by rhizome at 11:47 AM on October 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by rhizome at 11:47 AM on October 24, 2016 [3 favorites]
She also threatened people with a knife.
I found this one a little too two-dimensional. It was an interesting world, but the story didn't really go anywhere. It set up the world as "everyone is desperately trying to up their score" and then... didn't do anything with it. Lacie's story was more like a Mr Bean "everything keeps going wrong" comedy.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 4:06 PM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
I found this one a little too two-dimensional. It was an interesting world, but the story didn't really go anywhere. It set up the world as "everyone is desperately trying to up their score" and then... didn't do anything with it. Lacie's story was more like a Mr Bean "everything keeps going wrong" comedy.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 4:06 PM on October 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
To be fair, it is essentially a British show. :)
posted by rhizome at 5:37 PM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by rhizome at 5:37 PM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
I don't fucking know how people binge-watch this show either. This episode wasn't as upsetting as most, but it was still very cringe-inducing. After one or two episodes of this show, I have to watch something happier to cleanse my brain.
posted by a strong female character at 5:44 PM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by a strong female character at 5:44 PM on October 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
I binge-watched the previous seasons, but I usually hold off on watching the show until I'm in the mood for something disturbing/depressing.
And I'm in that kind of mood, but I had to stop after this one. There were times that I just wasn't buying the world. But even when it didn't feel real, I felt really anxious.
I couldn't quite put my finger on way it freaked me out so much, but I think it's because I don't think I'd like who I'd be if I was in that system. I like to think I'd be all, screw the system, I'm going to do what I'm going to do. But that can also hurt those you care for, so then maybe I'd just do the bare minimum. And then I realized it's the flair problem from Office Space, you can't just do the minimum. And once I started performing for the system, I'd keep doing it (albeit poorly, most likely) unless I had the good luck to go full Mr. Bean and wind up in jail.
posted by ghost phoneme at 8:54 PM on October 24, 2016
And I'm in that kind of mood, but I had to stop after this one. There were times that I just wasn't buying the world. But even when it didn't feel real, I felt really anxious.
I couldn't quite put my finger on way it freaked me out so much, but I think it's because I don't think I'd like who I'd be if I was in that system. I like to think I'd be all, screw the system, I'm going to do what I'm going to do. But that can also hurt those you care for, so then maybe I'd just do the bare minimum. And then I realized it's the flair problem from Office Space, you can't just do the minimum. And once I started performing for the system, I'd keep doing it (albeit poorly, most likely) unless I had the good luck to go full Mr. Bean and wind up in jail.
posted by ghost phoneme at 8:54 PM on October 24, 2016
Despite having liked most of Black Mirror in the past, this one passed me by.
There are a significant rump of people in public social life who get significant publicity by being disliked by many social media users- Katie Hopkins, Nigel Farage, obviously Donald Trump. The idea that the most blandly likeable people get by in life is, by and large, unfortunately bullshit.
Or in short "what if phones, but too much"
posted by threetwentytwo at 3:44 PM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
There are a significant rump of people in public social life who get significant publicity by being disliked by many social media users- Katie Hopkins, Nigel Farage, obviously Donald Trump. The idea that the most blandly likeable people get by in life is, by and large, unfortunately bullshit.
Or in short "what if phones, but too much"
posted by threetwentytwo at 3:44 PM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
I'm not sure I understood the final scene. Once the devices are removed from the eyes, do they devolve back to their true selves (i.e. nasty)? And is that to say the pastel world is better than the alternative?
posted by sixpack at 9:04 AM on October 26, 2016
posted by sixpack at 9:04 AM on October 26, 2016
I may have found the throughline on this one a little clearer and more satisfying than some did.
To my eyes, what happened was:
-Lacie was fully committed to the ratings-based world, desperately so
-She may have sensed there were some cracks in the system, in what she saw in her brother and her disgraced co-worker, but she forced herself to ignore them
-As she got caught up in the cracks herself, she tried to cling to her belief in the system
-The encounter with the truck driver showed her an alternate way of living that held some potential for real integrity and honesty, but it terrified her, so she forged ahead
-Her "speech" at the wedding was a volcanic event for her, with her simultaneously processing the dissolution of her hope/faith in the ratings-based life, her rage and sense of betrayal at having played the game fairly and still lost, and her tentative attempts to find a truer more authentic (and altogether DGAF) version of herself, as suggested by Cherry Jones' truck driver
-In jail, she meets a man she finds attractive. It bears mention that he is, at least in some superficial ways, in keeping with her type as seen in the VR "Lacie's happy life" sequence shown at the condo model. What's more, her first interaction with him is to pantomime the voting up gesture. The real reason he's perfect for her though is that he's also run out of patience with the bullshit of the system. Their "argument"/insult exchange is actually a pretty exhilarating flirtation, in which they bond by breaking all of the rules of the ratings-based world. That's why, in its fucked-up way, this counts as a happy ending: she's found something real.
To me, it all made a great deal of sense, had a readily identifiable arc, and closed with a satisfying (if intentionally ambiguous) ending.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:27 AM on October 26, 2016 [27 favorites]
To my eyes, what happened was:
-Lacie was fully committed to the ratings-based world, desperately so
-She may have sensed there were some cracks in the system, in what she saw in her brother and her disgraced co-worker, but she forced herself to ignore them
-As she got caught up in the cracks herself, she tried to cling to her belief in the system
-The encounter with the truck driver showed her an alternate way of living that held some potential for real integrity and honesty, but it terrified her, so she forged ahead
-Her "speech" at the wedding was a volcanic event for her, with her simultaneously processing the dissolution of her hope/faith in the ratings-based life, her rage and sense of betrayal at having played the game fairly and still lost, and her tentative attempts to find a truer more authentic (and altogether DGAF) version of herself, as suggested by Cherry Jones' truck driver
-In jail, she meets a man she finds attractive. It bears mention that he is, at least in some superficial ways, in keeping with her type as seen in the VR "Lacie's happy life" sequence shown at the condo model. What's more, her first interaction with him is to pantomime the voting up gesture. The real reason he's perfect for her though is that he's also run out of patience with the bullshit of the system. Their "argument"/insult exchange is actually a pretty exhilarating flirtation, in which they bond by breaking all of the rules of the ratings-based world. That's why, in its fucked-up way, this counts as a happy ending: she's found something real.
To me, it all made a great deal of sense, had a readily identifiable arc, and closed with a satisfying (if intentionally ambiguous) ending.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:27 AM on October 26, 2016 [27 favorites]
I agree it's a happy ending because, despite being in jail, they're better off than they were in the pastel world. They're mentally/emotionally freer than they've ever been.
In the pastel world you had to strictly monitors you're attitude/behavior/words lest you earn a bad rating. And don't forget, don't appear to try too hard, that'll cost you stars.
And the rating system wasn't really about making people better: if it was, why would anyone go to the trouble of rating inconsequential activities, like pictures etc, with anything but a 5? In light of the potential consequences of poor ratings, giving out low scores is truly an assholish behavior. And everyone knows the "niceness" wasn't real: you have the conversation between Naomi and Lacie where she says they were both hoping to gain something from the MOH arrangement.
So even though she's in jail trading insults (and I agree, it was at least semi-flirtatious), she's having a moment of pure joy there at the end. Joy she could never have while working within the system.
posted by ghost phoneme at 10:45 AM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
In the pastel world you had to strictly monitors you're attitude/behavior/words lest you earn a bad rating. And don't forget, don't appear to try too hard, that'll cost you stars.
And the rating system wasn't really about making people better: if it was, why would anyone go to the trouble of rating inconsequential activities, like pictures etc, with anything but a 5? In light of the potential consequences of poor ratings, giving out low scores is truly an assholish behavior. And everyone knows the "niceness" wasn't real: you have the conversation between Naomi and Lacie where she says they were both hoping to gain something from the MOH arrangement.
So even though she's in jail trading insults (and I agree, it was at least semi-flirtatious), she's having a moment of pure joy there at the end. Joy she could never have while working within the system.
posted by ghost phoneme at 10:45 AM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
It's worth noting that since they're in their street clothes, in a co-ed area, it's entirely possible, if not outright likely they're in a drunk tank/holding area. While we don't know what the justice system of pastel world is like, by the standards of our system, they would have decent odds of being released to face charges that don't necessarily involve jail time.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:55 AM on October 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:55 AM on October 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
they would have decent odds of being released to face charges that don't necessarily involve jail time.
Unless those cells are their final destination. Because (I'd like to believe) the pastel world can't exist/compete with deviant actors.
posted by sixpack at 11:35 AM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
Unless those cells are their final destination. Because (I'd like to believe) the pastel world can't exist/compete with deviant actors.
posted by sixpack at 11:35 AM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
Yeah, in their system, it could mean anything or nothing. But their world isn't so different from ours, so there's hope. And on Black Mirror, even slim, sideways hope is really something.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 11:42 AM on October 26, 2016
posted by DirtyOldTown at 11:42 AM on October 26, 2016
While there's no absolutely way to know, the interaction at the airport would lead me to believe that, for a variety of nonviolent offenses, punishment takes the form of a downgrade to your rating. Given that ratings dictate geographic mobility, consumer options, living options, employment eligibility, etc. most people would find this pretty daunting.
I'm thinking that if Lacie and her cellmate get out and have been struck down to say, 1.0, though, they're going to give precisely zero fucks.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 11:51 AM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
I'm thinking that if Lacie and her cellmate get out and have been struck down to say, 1.0, though, they're going to give precisely zero fucks.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 11:51 AM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
Sixpack: the eye devices are what renders the ratings information, so if they're removed you have no way of knowing another person's number. You are essentially denied the benefits of technology that a lot of others are using to judge you.
One thing about this though: it seems like a person can never know their own number without asking someone?
posted by rhizome at 12:04 PM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
One thing about this though: it seems like a person can never know their own number without asking someone?
posted by rhizome at 12:04 PM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
Remember that Peeple app? Did anyone else think of that?
I'm three episodes in and I think this was my favorite one so far. Although I kept thinking that if something like this were real and social media popularity did actually become basically a kind of currency, there would be a shit ton of people who would be like the truck driver and just say "fuuuck no to this" and opt out. Which is why something like this could never gain enough ground to be as powerful as it was in the show. It seems to me to be kind of like credit scores IRL. Powerful, but not completely dominating.
posted by triggerfinger at 5:31 PM on October 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
I'm three episodes in and I think this was my favorite one so far. Although I kept thinking that if something like this were real and social media popularity did actually become basically a kind of currency, there would be a shit ton of people who would be like the truck driver and just say "fuuuck no to this" and opt out. Which is why something like this could never gain enough ground to be as powerful as it was in the show. It seems to me to be kind of like credit scores IRL. Powerful, but not completely dominating.
posted by triggerfinger at 5:31 PM on October 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
Klout was basically a proto-model of this and apparently it still exists. You got perks for being an influencer (but not anymore). Supposedly some job interviewers were taking your score into account when hiring and Salesforce required a score of 35 or more for one job. I remember a people on twitter being kind of horrified by it and yet curious at the same time. I guess it's good it never took off. Our own jscalzi wrote an article on why it was evil.
please favorite this
posted by AFABulous at 6:33 PM on October 26, 2016 [9 favorites]
please favorite this
posted by AFABulous at 6:33 PM on October 26, 2016 [9 favorites]
for some reason I'm "ranked among the top 0.3% of people talking about Milwaukee"
posted by AFABulous at 6:36 PM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by AFABulous at 6:36 PM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
Rhizome: Aha, I guess that was completely lost on me. Thanks!
posted by sixpack at 1:59 PM on October 27, 2016
posted by sixpack at 1:59 PM on October 27, 2016
One thing about this though: it seems like a person can never know their own number without asking someone?
I think you can see your own rating by looking at your profile, it's just that Lacie's score kept dropping without her having checked it since it dropped.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 4:28 PM on October 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
I think you can see your own rating by looking at your profile, it's just that Lacie's score kept dropping without her having checked it since it dropped.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 4:28 PM on October 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
Hmm, well, it was going to be an interesting detail if the truck driver and her brother simply no longer had a way to care what their ratings were. The brother does click his phone at her when they argue, but it could just be a gesture or something. I'd have to watch again.
posted by rhizome at 5:22 PM on October 27, 2016
posted by rhizome at 5:22 PM on October 27, 2016
This episode was a 2.8 at best.
The production values were great and the acting was a lot of fun, but the Facebook posts that I've been reading about how Nosedive had anything meaningful to say are just baffling to me. The notion that social media is somehow driving people to be fake-nice all the time can be dispelled by spending 30 seconds on Twitter, and the idea that we can't be our happy, authentic selves unless we can swear at service workers and be mean to strangers who while they're in the process of doing us a favor is more stupid than malicious, but still plenty malicious.
Nosedive does make a lot more sense now that Fanfare has informed me that it was co-written by Rashida Jones (not a knock on her; she's a solid 4.8 on her worst day), who is a professional super-influencer, and probably does face a lot more pressure to be nice all the time. For the rest of us, though, I don't feel like this episode reflects anything resembling reality.
posted by Parasite Unseen at 8:26 AM on October 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
The production values were great and the acting was a lot of fun, but the Facebook posts that I've been reading about how Nosedive had anything meaningful to say are just baffling to me. The notion that social media is somehow driving people to be fake-nice all the time can be dispelled by spending 30 seconds on Twitter, and the idea that we can't be our happy, authentic selves unless we can swear at service workers and be mean to strangers who while they're in the process of doing us a favor is more stupid than malicious, but still plenty malicious.
Nosedive does make a lot more sense now that Fanfare has informed me that it was co-written by Rashida Jones (not a knock on her; she's a solid 4.8 on her worst day), who is a professional super-influencer, and probably does face a lot more pressure to be nice all the time. For the rest of us, though, I don't feel like this episode reflects anything resembling reality.
posted by Parasite Unseen at 8:26 AM on October 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
I think you're lucky then if you don't face this regularly. I co-taught a lesson yesterday for ESL learners. While I was waiting for the students, I was complaining to the receptionist about how tired I was and how I didn't want to talk to people at all, and the second they started arriving I put on my big fake smile and my cheery voice and went to work being friendly and bubbly.
That's the story of my life; that and recurring anxiety about how other people view me which forces me to be nice to everyone, all the time, in case they think I'm a bad person. This episode bright out a visceral reaction for me.
posted by tracicle at 8:44 AM on October 28, 2016 [8 favorites]
That's the story of my life; that and recurring anxiety about how other people view me which forces me to be nice to everyone, all the time, in case they think I'm a bad person. This episode bright out a visceral reaction for me.
posted by tracicle at 8:44 AM on October 28, 2016 [8 favorites]
The pressure to manage your appearance to conform to others expectations and desires is already there for a lot of people. It's great if you've avoided it, but a lot of people aren't able to. I am in no way a high-level influencer, not really social media person at all, and have been able to direct my life (so far) in a that I've been generally able to do what I want as far as appearance goes with minimal blowback, and this still struck a nerve.
There's no opt out in Nosedive, not without severely limiting one's ability to work, find housing, and access to medical care. And even if one is fine with accepting those limitations, there's the potential that blowback could have a negative impact on family and friends.
So it's not that social media sucks, it's that humans can be assholes and the technology just amplified the effect that a lot of people already feel.
posted by ghost phoneme at 9:30 AM on October 28, 2016 [4 favorites]
There's no opt out in Nosedive, not without severely limiting one's ability to work, find housing, and access to medical care. And even if one is fine with accepting those limitations, there's the potential that blowback could have a negative impact on family and friends.
So it's not that social media sucks, it's that humans can be assholes and the technology just amplified the effect that a lot of people already feel.
posted by ghost phoneme at 9:30 AM on October 28, 2016 [4 favorites]
I don't feel like this episode reflects anything resembling reality.
Drop by Google News and search for, "Yelp." That's just one example.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:38 AM on October 28, 2016 [4 favorites]
Drop by Google News and search for, "Yelp." That's just one example.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:38 AM on October 28, 2016 [4 favorites]
I get that social presenting is a thing. I spent ten years in corporate retail and food service before spending the last decade in customer service for a pension and health plan. Maintaining a level/friendly demeanor in the face of people yelling at me is basically what I get paid to do eight hours a day, five days a week. My boss used to scold me for talking to my girlfriend on the company phone, until I used our phone records to show that I'd actually been talking to clients; my "phone voice" for talking to everyone is the voice that most people only ever bring out for close friends and romantic partners. That voice is my job.
But Black Mirror is a show about the unintended consequences of technological communication, and it doesn't seem to me that social media has increased the amount of forced civility between people; quite the opposite. I'm going into the upcoming presidential election with the specific intent of stopping the people who are saying that we've gone too far in being civil to one another and we'd all be happier if everyone just said whatever shitty thing they felt.
Lacie is a mean person. She covers it up a lot, but any time she thinks that there's no social consequence or she stops caring what the consequence is, she lashes out. She does it to people who are doing their jobs and aren't trying to make her life worse (the airport ticketing clerk). She does it to people who are going out of their way to help a stranger (the Tranqheads).
My fiancée and I have talked about which piece of Black Mirror technology we would pay the most money to see developed. She (and most women with whom we've talked) chose the blocking application from White Christmas, and I cannot disagree with that logic. For me, though, the ability to look at someone and get a strong indication of their likelihood to force their way into my wedding and threaten everyone with a knife is where I'd put my money. I'd have one fewer stalker and several fewer trips to the ER and discussions with the police in my history, I imagine.
posted by Parasite Unseen at 11:11 AM on October 28, 2016
But Black Mirror is a show about the unintended consequences of technological communication, and it doesn't seem to me that social media has increased the amount of forced civility between people; quite the opposite. I'm going into the upcoming presidential election with the specific intent of stopping the people who are saying that we've gone too far in being civil to one another and we'd all be happier if everyone just said whatever shitty thing they felt.
Lacie is a mean person. She covers it up a lot, but any time she thinks that there's no social consequence or she stops caring what the consequence is, she lashes out. She does it to people who are doing their jobs and aren't trying to make her life worse (the airport ticketing clerk). She does it to people who are going out of their way to help a stranger (the Tranqheads).
My fiancée and I have talked about which piece of Black Mirror technology we would pay the most money to see developed. She (and most women with whom we've talked) chose the blocking application from White Christmas, and I cannot disagree with that logic. For me, though, the ability to look at someone and get a strong indication of their likelihood to force their way into my wedding and threaten everyone with a knife is where I'd put my money. I'd have one fewer stalker and several fewer trips to the ER and discussions with the police in my history, I imagine.
posted by Parasite Unseen at 11:11 AM on October 28, 2016
Lacie is a mean person. She covers it up a lot, but any time she thinks that there's no social consequence or she stops caring what the consequence is, she lashes out.
I totally did not get that at all from those scenes. I saw someone having a bad day and having their life ruined by it and then snapping. I don't think she's mean. I think she may be stuck up and judgmental but I don't think that without this rating system she would go around telling people off.
This system is terrible because all the ratings are arbitrary. Some people are going to rate a normal interaction as 3 starts because its just a normal interaction whereas others will rate any interaction that's not terrible as 5 stars because, hey there are real world consequences to low or even average ratings.
Lacie wasn't dis-invited to the wedding because her friend discovered she's a dangerous person. It was after her brother dinged her because he didn't like the system she was defending, then a cab dinged her for taking too long for coming out to the car, then for being annoying on the phone in the car (with the person getting married!), then being frustrated that her flight was canceled, then being frustrated that she suddenly is rated too low to get another flight, then by the security officer (who was also on his most gracious behavior due to the system) then by the guy at the car charging place because there was nothing special about the interaction. Nothing in any of those interactions would be an indication that she would snap and crash the wedding. All of us have been rude to someone to some degree. There's no reason that your life should be ruined for that.
posted by LizBoBiz at 12:27 PM on October 28, 2016 [7 favorites]
I totally did not get that at all from those scenes. I saw someone having a bad day and having their life ruined by it and then snapping. I don't think she's mean. I think she may be stuck up and judgmental but I don't think that without this rating system she would go around telling people off.
This system is terrible because all the ratings are arbitrary. Some people are going to rate a normal interaction as 3 starts because its just a normal interaction whereas others will rate any interaction that's not terrible as 5 stars because, hey there are real world consequences to low or even average ratings.
Lacie wasn't dis-invited to the wedding because her friend discovered she's a dangerous person. It was after her brother dinged her because he didn't like the system she was defending, then a cab dinged her for taking too long for coming out to the car, then for being annoying on the phone in the car (with the person getting married!), then being frustrated that her flight was canceled, then being frustrated that she suddenly is rated too low to get another flight, then by the security officer (who was also on his most gracious behavior due to the system) then by the guy at the car charging place because there was nothing special about the interaction. Nothing in any of those interactions would be an indication that she would snap and crash the wedding. All of us have been rude to someone to some degree. There's no reason that your life should be ruined for that.
posted by LizBoBiz at 12:27 PM on October 28, 2016 [7 favorites]
To me the unsettling thing about Nosedive is that the asshole at the bar who thinks I'm a bitch for not being interested in him can now have a tangible impact on my life beyond just cussing at me. I've also run into enough groups with a missing stair that I wouldn't trust a rating system to tell me who's safe and who isn't. Like your fiancée, the blocking technology seems to be more useful to me.
posted by ghost phoneme at 2:16 PM on October 28, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by ghost phoneme at 2:16 PM on October 28, 2016 [9 favorites]
LizBoBot: She wasn't disinvited because she was dangerous, but it turned out that she was dangerous, and the system accurately predicted that she was not the sort of person (on that day, at least) that most people would want at their wedding. Most of her problems were caused by her escalating situations that she could have just removed herself from (for real, her airline situation could have been easily resolved by stepping out of line, calling Nae Nae and asking her to bump her score; her 4.8 would be more than enough to counteract Lacie's "3.FUCK" brother and a cab driver).
ghost phoneme: The thing about the asshole at the bar downvoting you is that he's one asshole. As Nosedive is presented, you would have hundreds if not thousands of interactions a day. One asshole's shitty behavior is unlikely to have a meaningful effect on your score, particularly because if he's made this a habit his own score is likely in the toilet, thereby blunting the impact of his rating you. As for missing stairs, I feel like most missing stairs exist because we're not comfortable with being seen as judging others, which is clearly not a problem that people in the Nosedive universe struggle with.
There's been a lot of talk on MetaFilter about emotional labor, and I feel like the Nosedive system is the closest thing that we've seen to a system where making other people's emotional lives run more smoothly carries a tangible reward. Having said that, I fully acknowledge that if I were a woman I would vastly prefer the blocking technology.
posted by Parasite Unseen at 3:23 PM on October 28, 2016
ghost phoneme: The thing about the asshole at the bar downvoting you is that he's one asshole. As Nosedive is presented, you would have hundreds if not thousands of interactions a day. One asshole's shitty behavior is unlikely to have a meaningful effect on your score, particularly because if he's made this a habit his own score is likely in the toilet, thereby blunting the impact of his rating you. As for missing stairs, I feel like most missing stairs exist because we're not comfortable with being seen as judging others, which is clearly not a problem that people in the Nosedive universe struggle with.
There's been a lot of talk on MetaFilter about emotional labor, and I feel like the Nosedive system is the closest thing that we've seen to a system where making other people's emotional lives run more smoothly carries a tangible reward. Having said that, I fully acknowledge that if I were a woman I would vastly prefer the blocking technology.
posted by Parasite Unseen at 3:23 PM on October 28, 2016
I guess I see the system as being more likely to amplify the pressure a lot of women already feel, both in the professional sphere and just when walking out the door: to smile more, not rock the boat, manage their appearance, and perform more emotional labor for strangers. Or the façade of emotional labor, no one in the system in Nosedive seemed genuinely nice.
And I've been that airline worker. I've worked retail, and dealt with random meltdowns over less trying things than missing a flight. I've also had enough of those people come back to me and apologize to know that sometimes good people have moments of assholish behavior. I can't imagine dinging someone for their behavior when I have no clue what else is going on in their lives. And even if they are complete assholes, the ratings don't just impact someone's social life. Assholes still deserve medical care and to be able to earn a living.
And you may be right to be more optimistic. But for me it was unsettling even though I'm not a heavy social media user.
posted by ghost phoneme at 6:30 PM on October 28, 2016 [5 favorites]
And I've been that airline worker. I've worked retail, and dealt with random meltdowns over less trying things than missing a flight. I've also had enough of those people come back to me and apologize to know that sometimes good people have moments of assholish behavior. I can't imagine dinging someone for their behavior when I have no clue what else is going on in their lives. And even if they are complete assholes, the ratings don't just impact someone's social life. Assholes still deserve medical care and to be able to earn a living.
And you may be right to be more optimistic. But for me it was unsettling even though I'm not a heavy social media user.
posted by ghost phoneme at 6:30 PM on October 28, 2016 [5 favorites]
I'm surprised no one has mentioned Uber, since this is exactly what happens when you get a ride. You rate the driver from 1 -5 stars and they rate you. If their rating drops below a threshold, Uber stops giving them jobs; if yours drops too low, no one will pick you up.
posted by AFABulous at 7:12 PM on October 28, 2016 [17 favorites]
posted by AFABulous at 7:12 PM on October 28, 2016 [17 favorites]
I'm so glad other people had difficulty watching this. I just found it so uncomfortable to watch that I had to stop a few times and then keep going after a moment. I thought, I'm not sure why, that I would be alone in that feeling.
It's such a relief that I'm not.
posted by miss-lapin at 8:24 PM on October 30, 2016 [4 favorites]
It's such a relief that I'm not.
posted by miss-lapin at 8:24 PM on October 30, 2016 [4 favorites]
Today, I went into the office of a storage unit facility to lease a unit. The girl behind the counter was crying. She apologized and told me her boss had screamed at her for not getting enough online reviews from her customers.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:18 PM on October 30, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:18 PM on October 30, 2016 [4 favorites]
Not enough reviews? As in not that she had negative reviews, but she wasn't getting enough people to review online?
I understand the concept of asking for customer feedback, I really do. But that's just looking for free advertising. And the downside is even if you wanted to you can't give honest feedback without an innocent party probably having to deal with the blowback.
posted by ghost phoneme at 10:16 AM on October 31, 2016 [1 favorite]
I understand the concept of asking for customer feedback, I really do. But that's just looking for free advertising. And the downside is even if you wanted to you can't give honest feedback without an innocent party probably having to deal with the blowback.
posted by ghost phoneme at 10:16 AM on October 31, 2016 [1 favorite]
Car insurance based on your social media...
posted by EndsOfInvention at 5:56 PM on November 1, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by EndsOfInvention at 5:56 PM on November 1, 2016 [2 favorites]
...And Facebook blocked it before it could be released (T&Cs say you can't base loan decisions on Facebook data or something). Facebook, defending our privacy?!
posted by EndsOfInvention at 6:21 AM on November 2, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by EndsOfInvention at 6:21 AM on November 2, 2016 [2 favorites]
We both looked at each other a few minutes in and mentioned Sesame Credit, but I had no idea about the Facebook/car insurance thing. I believe I also heard something about landlords and social media, perhaps on the blue, awhile back?
I wonder how long it would take me to go from being Lacie to her brother to the truck driver lady. It seems like so fucking much effort to maintain a good rating.
posted by fiercecupcake at 7:03 AM on November 3, 2016
I wonder how long it would take me to go from being Lacie to her brother to the truck driver lady. It seems like so fucking much effort to maintain a good rating.
posted by fiercecupcake at 7:03 AM on November 3, 2016
I loved the use of colour in this - like everyone is trying so hard to be as happy and nice as possible it has even narrowed their clothing choices to only the sunniest colours possible. And I really enjoyed the end, it seemed that yelling insults was the most fun either of them had had in years.
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 3:08 AM on November 6, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 3:08 AM on November 6, 2016 [4 favorites]
Facebook, defending our privacy?!
No, they just don't want their data being used without their getting a cut of the action.
I've been seeing a lot of people bagging on this episode and I'm really trying to figure out where that's coming from, because I still think this is one of the better episodes this season. Hitting a little too close to home among the digerati and those that depend on it for employment? Maybe.
I just tried to rank the episodes in my head. Nosedive was definitely better than Playtest for me, but above that it really gets hard!
posted by rhizome at 10:57 AM on November 6, 2016 [2 favorites]
No, they just don't want their data being used without their getting a cut of the action.
I've been seeing a lot of people bagging on this episode and I'm really trying to figure out where that's coming from, because I still think this is one of the better episodes this season. Hitting a little too close to home among the digerati and those that depend on it for employment? Maybe.
I just tried to rank the episodes in my head. Nosedive was definitely better than Playtest for me, but above that it really gets hard!
posted by rhizome at 10:57 AM on November 6, 2016 [2 favorites]
I just tried to rank the episodes in my head
To me, it goes Men Against Fire < Playtest < Shut Up and Dance < Hated in the Nation < Nosedive < San Junipero.
And yeah, from all episodes this is the one that rings closer to modern day-to-day reality. People are already rating people, only with lesser consequences. There's a lot of forced networking in social media, as well as a lot of fake niceness, as well as having to constantly police what is their image with others.
So... maybe the problem is that it is too familiar. Not as pastel-y, not as polished, not as important, but it already exists.
posted by lmfsilva at 12:05 PM on November 6, 2016
To me, it goes Men Against Fire < Playtest < Shut Up and Dance < Hated in the Nation < Nosedive < San Junipero.
And yeah, from all episodes this is the one that rings closer to modern day-to-day reality. People are already rating people, only with lesser consequences. There's a lot of forced networking in social media, as well as a lot of fake niceness, as well as having to constantly police what is their image with others.
So... maybe the problem is that it is too familiar. Not as pastel-y, not as polished, not as important, but it already exists.
posted by lmfsilva at 12:05 PM on November 6, 2016
I liked the subtle thing where Lacie's brother doesn't have to care about ratings because he has a built-in support group of similarly aimless gamer buddies willing to upvote each other in a giant, reddit-style circlejerk.
posted by tobascodagama at 1:50 AM on December 11, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by tobascodagama at 1:50 AM on December 11, 2016 [11 favorites]
No one's mentioned that this episode was written by the awesome and talented Rashida Jones and Michael Schur (co-creator of Parks and Recreation.)
The Nosedive world - in terms of its craziness and its pastel colours - is for sure a protean model of "The Good Place".
posted by rongorongo at 4:48 AM on June 20, 2019 [2 favorites]
The Nosedive world - in terms of its craziness and its pastel colours - is for sure a protean model of "The Good Place".
posted by rongorongo at 4:48 AM on June 20, 2019 [2 favorites]
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posted by Jalliah at 8:28 PM on October 21, 2016 [4 favorites]