Society Game discussion megathread
November 6, 2016 5:18 PM - Subscribe

Spoiler-friendly zone for discussing Society Game, a Korean variety show broadly similar to Survivor.

Because it's not on IMDB, I couldn't create a thread for the show on FanFare proper. cortex gave me the go-ahead to create one here instead.

Spoilers from all episodes are fair game, provided they've been subbed into English.
posted by Panthalassa (31 comments total) 3 users marked this as a favorite
 
Just because of what I can only assume is my own ideological conditioning, I always find myself rooting for 'democratic' teams over 'authoritarian' ones in shows like this, but honestly Nopdong's secret ballot leadership selection process results in a less transparent, consensus-based society than Madong's open revolt one does. (Or is it just that Madong hasn't yet had to suffer through the pain of losing and the subsequent factional struggle for survival?) At the moment I'm only barracking for Nopdong because they're the underdogs, because Madong has the better chemistry and teamwork skills by far.

Aaargh there are so many moments I don't know what to talk about. I'm very torn about Oliver. He seems like he could be reasonably levelheaded and practical if he wanted to (c.f. the chicken incident). Why can't he just put the knives away and play nice with Pharaoh? I don't understand why he's so power hungry because, it seems to me, all it's resulted in is him getting very nearly eliminated twice. The first time, I wanted it to be him, but last week I thought Macho should have gotten the boot without a second thought. But nooooo. Too much politicking! What's the point in politicking if you're just going to lose challenges? Wouldn't you rather just chillax and win them?? IT SEEMS TO BE WORKING PRETTY WELL FOR MADONG GUYS

oh yeah and Oliver has the smoothest, bassiest American accent when he talks in English. Like, give this guy some movie trailers to voiceover, stat.
posted by Panthalassa at 5:58 PM on November 6, 2016


Also Macho lying so much about completely losing the challenge for Nopdong made me very angers
posted by Panthalassa at 6:02 PM on November 6, 2016


There's also some quality analysis on reddit: r/TheGenius e01 e02, r/koreanvariety e01 e02
posted by Panthalassa at 6:11 PM on November 6, 2016


Thanks for creating this!

I can't help but feel that the Nopdong vs Madong end-game will be different from the early-game dominance by Madong; in fact I think it's going to flip and we'll see Nopdong win more often near the end.

Nopdong's daily votes does more than encourage consensus: it rewards those who are the most effective at politicking behind the scenes to snipe off opponents. The moments of consensus are brief and are united to strike at a common threat. For example, Oliver isn't good at it, he's too obvious and relies on too few people so he's not going to be voted leader anytime soon and he's under constant threat of elimination. Macho on the other hand is better at playing multiple people and at presenting himself as a less dangerous threat; he can't win the leadership but he's useful to sway votes. Unless he continues to mess up in the games, I think he'll be around for a while.

I'm still thinking through Madong's dynastic system. It obviously encourages loyalty and the bond between the leader and the two key holders. The bond fails when one of the key holders thinks they have better trust with two other people. In that way it's also a majority vote system, one that's predicated on the faith of either of the two key holders to initiate the vote. When Sangguk rebelled with his group, there was plausibility that each of the inner group had a chance of being in the final three. It's not the case any more and now he has three groups to track: the two key holders, the other two in his inner sanctum and Haesung's group.

I'm interested to see how Sangguk's agreement with Haesung of mutual non-elimination plays out. Opportunity for betrayal!
posted by tksh at 12:10 PM on November 7, 2016


I haven't watched this week's episode yet but I thought for sure Macho was going to be sent home last week. There's even a part of me that feels like he did poorly in the game on purpose (or maybe I was just like "you've got to be kidding me" every single time he messed up -- he probaby would have done better just putting up a random number and just not even trying to make sre the correct side was showing). But this does mean I'm more interested in the alliances and schemes than I was previously, since it's so obviously not going to be what I'm automatically expecting. Then again, I loved the unpredictable chaos Kim Kyung Hoon brought to The Genius, so I'd be for a wild outlier like him to shake things up in this, too.

Madong is definitely the stronger group right now (I'm rooting for them mostly because Asol has become my favorite contestant), but I think once Nopdong gets down to where the votes really matter in terms of who the final three will be, alliances will become more interesting and how more meaning and they might be able to work together better than Madong. I think. I'm ready to be surprised, though.
posted by paisley sheep at 2:42 PM on November 7, 2016


Just watched ep 3 and yay Nopdong! They needed a win.

Also I totally forgot that the jails were a thing but I respect Madong's idea on how to use it even it means, since they lost, there's an even greater chance for alliances to be switched since an authoritarian-esque rule miiiiiiiiiiight not be the best option when there's still a strong chance that allies can be easily switched and rebellions to be successful. I suppose, in that way, the egalitarian voting system of Nopdong makes sense but then again this is really a giant social experiment that largely hinges on whether or not certain personalities will be able to have greater sway than the results of any challenges.

Plus now I'm worried for my fave Asol. I thought he was a good mix of brains and physical who could relate to everyone, so he'd be someone they'd bank on to win challenges until they needed to start voting out potential threats in order to end up in the final three.

That preview for next week, though! I'm excited to see how this shakes things up!
posted by paisley sheep at 8:25 AM on November 8, 2016


Finally watched ep 3 too and yes, very happy for Nopdong :}

Being in jail is interesting. You can't get eliminated when you're in jail? Potential for shenanigans there.

Does anyone have any ideas about the clues the leaders are receiving in their daily letters?
posted by Panthalassa at 3:17 AM on November 14, 2016


Also I have completely flipped from an Oliver anti-fan to an Oliver fan. I don't like Nopdong's current leader, or Macho, and I want them both out ASAP ):<
posted by Panthalassa at 3:19 AM on November 14, 2016


Donghwan is such a big ol' doof
posted by Panthalassa at 7:14 PM on November 16, 2016


I'm caught up to episode four now.

That was an interesting episode and a personally infuriating one. Sangguk's choice to dismiss Oliver over Hael surprised me and it hints at Sangguk's long term strategy. I think Sangguk believes he has a good handle of the relationships in Madong and Oliver's upsetting of that political balance is a risk Sangguk did not want to take.

There was also a scene where Seohyun and Seolhwa sat down and quietly made a shortlist of who they think is up for elimination. It's interesting that Haesung was not on that list and I'm beginning to think Sangguk and Haesung's agreement is deeper than it appears. Haesung would be an obvious choice for elimination if Sangguk was concerned with rivalry, look at what happened to Oliver in Nopdong.

Speaking of which, man, cloaks and daggers are out in Nopdong. They really capitalised on Oliver's mistakes and buried a hatchet in him for being overt about his machinations. It felt like he became the sacrificial lamb and blamed for the politicking of others. Meanwhile Macho, Heejung and MJ are each playing their game of wits and lies, trying to maintain influence.

I hope all three get eliminated but that would require unity amongst the others over three separate votes and the editing so far doesn't show Sayhuk to have much purchase on the others to coordinate this. And if the three continue to accumulate prize money, it makes it even less likely they'll be picked for elimination. It's an interesting strategy and I think it'll work out for them, despite the crookery.
posted by tksh at 6:56 AM on November 19, 2016


I've been thinking about Madong more (because it seems more cards are on the table in that village) and I don't see a bright future for Asol.

Unless there's an The Usual Suspects revelation at t-5 (ie. when there are five people left in the village and either key holder can completely take over), Asol's relying on just Sangguk's words to be kept safe. He already has the reputation to be the right hand man and I think that marks him for elimination should there be a leader change. The possibility of Sangguk betraying him and using him as a lightning rod for discontent is tempting and would be a smooth move.

I have no idea about the hint cards. One set are fractions and the other set are numbered letters but we know ball throwing will be important for the final game. With three people on each team at the end, it's possible that there'll be a game for each person: physical, dexterity (ball throwing) and mental (using the hint cards).

And that reminds me, Sangguk has been keeping the hints to himself only and openly burned the hints. His eye is very much on the ball.
posted by tksh at 5:17 PM on November 19, 2016


That was an interesting episode and a personally infuriating one. Sangguk's choice to dismiss Oliver over Hael surprised me and it hints at Sangguk's long term strategy. I think Sangguk believes he has a good handle of the relationships in Madong and Oliver's upsetting of that political balance is a risk Sangguk did not want to take.

It was a strange decision to me—Sangguk's being going on about how he's going to dissolve all the present alliances in Madong anyway, so why not buy Oliver's gratitude by keeping him around, and end up with a strong and intelligent ally when the realignment happens? I think Sangguk is being outmanoeuvred by Asol and co. here and is potentially going to blow his own position up big time for very little gain (I don't think people are just going to drop their current alliances, regardless of what he does), with the only mitigating factor that he has been keeping the hints to himself, as you mention, and people may want to attach themselves to him for the purpose of figuring them out.

Meanwhile Macho, Heejung and MJ are each playing their game of wits and lies, trying to maintain influence. I hope all three get eliminated but that would require unity amongst the others over three separate votes and the editing so far doesn't show Sayhuk to have much purchase on the others to coordinate this.

Hold on a second, is MJ in cahoots with Macho and Heejun? I thought she just gave them a bit of money in order to try and unify the team after humiliating Heejun with that 8–1 leadership vote victory. After a convincing victory in this week's game, under MJ's leadership, it looks to me like Nopdong is on track to be their most cohesive and formidable yet. But my memory could be failing me? Was there manoeuvring against MJ this episode that I've forgotten about? Maybe I'll watch it again.

I have no idea about the hint cards. One set are fractions and the other set are numbered letters but we know ball throwing will be important for the final game. With three people on each team at the end, it's possible that there'll be a game for each person: physical, dexterity (ball throwing) and mental (using the hint cards).

If it had something to do with the last game, I kinda think both teams would be getting the same set of hints? My wild hunch is that there might be something??? hidden??? in each team's village and these are clues as to where it is/how to access it. Here are the clues we have so far (and the people who read them) btw:

Nopdong
  1. (Pharoh) RH3
  2. (Heejun) EK9
  3. (Heejun) CK1
Madong
  1. (Sangguk) 12/13
  2. (Sangguk) 1/12
  3. (Sangguk) 12 out of 13 (translated from '13개 중에 12개')

posted by Panthalassa at 10:34 PM on November 21, 2016


Like, in Madong, what were there 13 of, and then 12 of, and now 13 of again? Or is the third hint just a guide to interpreting the first?
posted by Panthalassa at 10:48 PM on November 21, 2016


Theory for Nopdong's hints: they could be sets of two possibilities for the 3rd, 9th and 1st letters of a 9 (or longer) letter word—an English word, or a Korean word transliterated into English. So the 3rd letter is either R or H, the 9th letter is either E or K, and the 1st letter is either C or K.
posted by Panthalassa at 11:06 PM on November 21, 2016


Also, big lols at the 'I didn't enter the Cool Guy Contest for this. I feel ashamed and hurt.' in the BTS clip because lol Donghwan
posted by Panthalassa at 11:18 PM on November 21, 2016


I just finished watching episode five and the narration was spot-on in this episode.

On Nopdong: Hold on a second, is MJ in cahoots with Macho and Heejun? I thought she just gave them a bit of money in order to try and unify the team after humiliating Heejun with that 8–1 leadership vote victory. After a convincing victory in this week's game, under MJ's leadership, it looks to me like Nopdong is on track to be their most cohesive and formidable yet. But my memory could be failing me? Was there manoeuvring against MJ this episode that I've forgotten about? Maybe I'll watch it again.

It could be my memory that's failing but I recall MJ, Macho and Heejun as all trying to play the rest of the village against each other, especially with Pharaoh and Sayhuk. MJ was more cunning and sly with her machinations than Heejun, who outright threatened the village to vote for him. Outside of his machinations, I think Heejun is probably the sharpest in Nopdong. Unfortunately I don't think he's valued for his wits. Finally as leader, MJ knows to keep a pulse on her teams' fears and identify a sacrifice. Heejun is the unfortunate choice.

On Madong: It was a strange decision to me—Sangguk's being going on about how he's going to dissolve all the present alliances in Madong anyway, so why not buy Oliver's gratitude by keeping him around, and end up with a strong and intelligent ally when the realignment happens? I think Sangguk is being outmanoeuvred by Asol and co. here and is potentially going to blow his own position up big time for very little gain (I don't think people are just going to drop their current alliances, regardless of what he does), with the only mitigating factor that he has been keeping the hints to himself, as you mention, and people may want to attach themselves to him for the purpose of figuring them out.

For sure Sangguk's actions have been confusing for us watching at home. I think the heart of it is that he is a person that wants to take care of and be loyal to those who follow him. At the same time he's rationally aware of the elimination aspect of the game. His burning of the hint cards, his desire to be the tie-breaker in a rebellion. Yet the left hand does not follow the right hand.

I interpret his actions as someone who has been given the opportunity to lead in a way he hasn't had to before and he relishes the chance to do it nobly. Yet he can't quite square his situation with the need to be cunning and to betray. I think if he had better counsel, he could play his resignation better (like Kim Gura did in The Genius S1) but alas, Asol's also a loyal one.

On hints: If it had something to do with the last game, I kinda think both teams would be getting the same set of hints? My wild hunch is that there might be something??? hidden??? in each team's village and these are clues as to where it is/how to access it.

Theory for Nopdong's hints: they could be sets of two possibilities for the 3rd, 9th and 1st letters of a 9 (or longer) letter word—an English word, or a Korean word transliterated into English. So the 3rd letter is either R or H, the 9th letter is either E or K, and the 1st letter is either C or K.

I think you're right! Finding a hidden lifeline or something daebak like that would make sense.

----

At the end of the episode when they gathered for elimination, I noticed many in Nopdong were beaming, especially Hyan-byul. I have to admit that got into my mind and I think that's because despite it all, I actually like the people in Madong. I think their weakness is that they're loyal to each other and that's disrupting their focus when they lose. Nopdong, at least the way the editing shows it, seem to be a place of shadowy politics and less of meritocracy.

Random thoughts:
- Hael's a deadweight and she knows it. She reminds me of Choi Jung-moon in The Genius S1 and her hesitation in this episode was eerily the same as she weighed the options to save herself.

- Is it me or does MJ seem to really play up the oppa-dongseng relationship with the men? It seems to be a good way to hide the power imbalance and fool the men to believe she's being deferring, yielding to their influence.
posted by tksh at 8:22 PM on November 25, 2016


And because I couldn't help myself after the events in episode 5, I went ahead and watched episode 6 without subs even though I don't know Korean. Now I can't wait for episode 7...
posted by tksh at 9:01 PM on November 25, 2016


You were definitely right about MJ being in cahoots with Macho and Heejun—although as she said in the last episode, she doesn't like to trust anyone, so it's probably not a solid alliance.

I really like your analysis of Sangguk. It resolved all the contradictions for me.
posted by Panthalassa at 6:59 AM on November 30, 2016


Also yeah you're totally right about Hael being just like Jungmoon, selling a sister down the river despite the fact that they have basically no shot at winning anyway.

At the end of the episode when they gathered for elimination, I noticed many in Nopdong were beaming, especially Hyan-byul. I have to admit that got into my mind and I think that's because despite it all, I actually like the people in Madong. I think their weakness is that they're loyal to each other and that's disrupting their focus when they lose. Nopdong, at least the way the editing shows it, seem to be a place of shadowy politics and less of meritocracy.

I feel like Nopdong is less meritocratic not because of its politics but because it has less meritable players. Byungkwan, Injik, Asol are the super brawny players—they're all in Madong. Haesung and Kyungryul, the big brains—in Madong too. Nopdong has a distinctly underdoggy quality to me and I can't stop rooting for them, even if they're being a bit jerkface about the winning streak they're currently on.

--

Super interested about how this Haesung / Byungkwan / Injik trio thing is gonna play out. The men do seem pretty loyal to one another, I wonder if we could be looking at our final three for Madong...
posted by Panthalassa at 7:11 AM on November 30, 2016


Oh my god, episode 6 was a kick in the guts.
posted by Panthalassa at 6:41 AM on December 3, 2016


Madong continues to wind into a tiny little ball of unhappiness. I don't really like anyone there anymore except Injik. Although Sangguk's elimination was still a bit sad. I wonder if Haesung is going to face revolt from Byungkwan and Injik; the preview for next episode certainly hinted in that direction.

I was shocked that MJ actually eliminated Heejun. I mean, I had been wanting him gone for a few episodes but I was expecting Donghwan to go first, if anyone. I didn't like him personally and his attempts to regain his lost leadership were unseemly, but his good performance in the game, that 'Good luck' note and the BTS clip where he seemed to sense his impending doom and broke down... ahh, it's tragic.
posted by Panthalassa at 6:49 AM on December 3, 2016


Ahhh, Sangguk screwed things up so hard. He had the perfect thing going with his 4-1-4 setup where he could just alternate eliminating people (on merit!) from each of the opposing alliances; it would have been pretty fair and reasonable for a necessarily dictator-led society, and he would have looked like a strong and benevolent ruler. But he lost his nerve when he fell off that rope and now the chickens have come home to roost.
posted by Panthalassa at 7:01 AM on December 3, 2016


Best moment: when Donghwan caught Insun staring at Pharoh's bod
posted by Panthalassa at 7:03 AM on December 3, 2016


Oh I guess I don't mind Kyungryul. Kyungryul and Injik.
posted by Panthalassa at 7:05 AM on December 3, 2016


Haha, episode six was entertaining.

I'm still rooting for Madong, they're good people if a bit too dejected into self pity. The competitive side in me thinks Madong's earning their stripes while Nopdong is coasting by on effective (yet manipulative) leadership and that's going to play out in the end game.

Agreed that Sangguk poisoned the well and I'm glad he recognises it. I wonder what would have happened if Haesung had eliminated Sangguk when he asked for it. Would Sangguk have been able to see his errors? Would Haesung's lack of leadership be as evident? Haesung's indecisiveness and inability to deal was wholly evident when compared with Injik's pre-game attempts to reach a compromise.

End-game prediction for Madong: Byungkwan, Injik Asol

(Yep, am banking on the Byungkwan rebellion.)

----

I'm not surprised with Heejung's elimination but it was a bloody shame. MJ's surprisingly good at what she does and she's using the tyranny of the majority to focus on the strong players. As she admits, she blacklists people by their social standing and I think by social construction, the strongest leaders were also those who worked the hardest to gain political play. That made them easy targets to eliminate without having the village acknowledge the power that gave to MJ in securing her final three spot. Now that the obvious political players are gone, it's going to be interesting to see how the village reacts with the next elimination.

End-game prediction for Nopdong: MJ, Macho, Sahyuk

----

I feel like Nopdong is less meritocratic not because of its politics but because it has less meritable players. Byungkwan, Injik, Asol are the super brawny players—they're all in Madong. Haesung and Kyungryul, the big brains—in Madong too. Nopdong has a distinctly underdoggy quality to me and I can't stop rooting for them, even if they're being a bit jerkface about the winning streak they're currently on.

That's an interesting observation too! The way that they were forced to divide themselves definitely framed their village identities. Do you think that they're framed as not the elites and that they're ruled through democracy, psychologically dampens the player against player competitiveness in the village? That's the feel I'm reading now.
posted by tksh at 2:49 PM on December 3, 2016


Scattered thoughts on Episode 7:
  • Surprised Haesung survived that episode with his leadership intact – it's still shaky, sure, but I expected it to be gone. The dynamic in Madong is a bit better without Sangguk whining though.
  • It was nice to see a couple of players finally earn their stripes: Insun, Macho, Sahyuk and Kyungryul were all pretty good at hitting the targets; Byungkwan and Insun did pretty impressively on the treadmill.
  • Nopdong is getting really lucky with the prizes from their minigame wins; they've gotten both of the samples of future games.
  • I still like Nopdong's contestants more at this stage, but I wanted Madong to win to balance things out a bit.
  • I was pretty impressed by how Hael so calmly accepted (even advocated for) her own elimination; she had really risen above her station, but I hadn't expected her to realise/accept it, so that redeemed her a little.
  • Donghwan looked a bit shattered about his own elimination—I kind of feel like it might have been a slight misjudgement on MJ's part. I mean, Heejun was pretty obviously hungering for power and putting everyone off, but Donghwan seemed more like a harmless goofball prone to the occasional unfortunate delusion of grandeur. I don't think it'll be too much of a problem for MJ though, maybe there'll be a brief rough patch with Pharoh.
  • Didn't really expect the secret item all the hints were pointing to to be what it was. I mean, I didn't really have anything in mind either, but it was a little underwhelming. I wonder what Madong's version of it will be?
  • Funniest moment this episode was that shot of Hanbyul brushing his teeth in the BTS clip.
--

End-game prediction for Madong: Byungkwan, Injik, Asol

I really have no idea. I think Haesung will go next time Madong loses (hopefully not for an episode or two!!) but beyond that I have no clue. I mean, I would probably send Seohyun home after that but Asol has indicated he wants to take her into the final 4. Out of the remaining players I think Injik, Byungkwan and Kyungryul would be the most winning combination—Asol's not really all that, in my opinion.

--

Do you think that they're framed as not the elites and that they're ruled through democracy, psychologically dampens the player against player competitiveness in the village? That's the feel I'm reading now.

Quite possibly, yeah! I think MJ needs to lay off the blacklist for a bit lest she starts coming across as a bit too dictatorial now though.

--

Apparently the show's already been renewed for a second season and Crime Scene has been renewed for a third! That makes me a very happy camper.
posted by Panthalassa at 4:24 AM on December 11, 2016


I'd been avoiding this thread because I was woefully behind but now I'm caught up through episode 9! I'm pretty excited about this new resident swap because now my two favorite players, Asol and MJ, are on the same team and seem to be supporting each other to at least make it to the final three. Also I can't believe that Seo Hyun thought anyone would take her "lose so the team I'm now on will be able to eat" request seriously (I didn't mind her as a player, but she clearly was the choice to eliminate this time because c'mon).
posted by paisley sheep at 11:28 PM on January 3, 2017


I actually went ahead and watch the episodes in raw Korean as they came out so I'm done the series and am waiting for the English subs to catch up before talking about it.

I won't spoil anything but I really liked the editing by the production team. I found some of the games to be pretty boring when I thought about it afterwards but during the episode, the editing made it all quite exciting.
posted by tksh at 6:06 PM on January 9, 2017


Final EP has been posted.
posted by johnpowell at 10:08 PM on February 12, 2017


A bit disappointed about who won and the game in which it happened, but that's life! Looking forward to Season 2, and new Crime Scene episodes too.
posted by Panthalassa at 6:45 AM on February 24, 2017


The Season 2 premiere made me remember that I never got around to finishing S1 (whoops), but I'm already looking forward to S2 because the cast seems really interesting -- then again, they were total geniuses (heh) to bring in Jang Dong Min because that immediately got my attention. I'm also a little hesitant about the cast because it seems to rely on more celebrity than the previous season's cast, but I suppose that's how it goes for variety shows any more. But they've also brought MJ back (and I love her haircut!) so I'm happy. I was also momentarily baffled by the inclusion of Julien Kang until I remembered he's a fitness nut so he'd be on the "strength" side. Excited-but-wary sums up my opinion of the cast so far.

I've only just started watching the premiere so don't have anything to say so far, but I'm curious to see how the show is going to shake things up this season.
posted by paisley sheep at 9:11 AM on August 26, 2017


« Older Holiday Movie Club 2016...   |  The Handmaid's Tale, anyone?... Newer »

You are not logged in, either login or create an account to post comments