Twin Peaks: The Return, Part 11   First Watch 
July 23, 2017 7:02 PM - Season 3, Episode 11 - Subscribe

There's fire where you're going. (description from Showtime)
posted by infinitewindow (99 comments total) 4 users marked this as a favorite
I LOVED the scene with Bobby and Shelly and Becky at the R&R, and then total WTF with Bobby and the kids outside. Bobby looking back and forth at the kid who shot the gun and his look-alike dad was a super effective parallel to Becky making the exact same mistakes Shelly made at her age. (And apparently now too.) Lynch is just so good at juxtapositions.

God I love the silver fox version of Bobby Briggs.
posted by Brittanie at 7:07 PM on July 23 [9 favorites]

after years of wanting to watch this show, i finally decided (after the acclaim of episode 8) that it was time to dive into Twin Peaks. and what a journey it's been. this is the first episode i was able to watch live after catching up with all three seasons over the last month. it's been a hell of a journey. this hour of television is among the best hours this series has ever produced. riveting, creepy, mysterious, touching, and legitimately HILARIOUS - just one example, after several minutes of tension we cut to matthew lilard's half blown off head and then back to Gordon Cole who explains to us: "He's dead." I literally guffawed. this was one of the best episodes of television I can recall.

waiting a whole week for the follow up, now THAT'S going to be a challenge.
posted by JimBennett at 7:12 PM on July 23 [8 favorites]

Also, kudos for FatherDragon who said in last episode's post that the first rule of soaps is that no one is really dead unless you see them die (and sometimes not even then). MIRIAM LIVES!

Also I am sad we only have a handful of episodes left. :(
posted by Brittanie at 7:13 PM on July 23 [6 favorites]

I can't tell from my phone's itty-bitty screen, but was Gersten Hayward (played by Season 2 alumna Alicia Witt) the woman Steven was cheating with, or the mother in the minivan?

Coincidence of the day: I subscribe to a blog called Nobody Hikes in LA, and today's featured hike was Twin Peaks in the San Gabriel range. The closest campground? Buckhorn Campground.
posted by infinitewindow at 7:15 PM on July 23 [1 favorite]

my cat comes and sits on me every Sunday at 9:00 to protect me from the Twin Peaks. none of it ever seems to bother her, not the headcrushing, not any of it, except when the Mitchum brothers howled at each other. that really got to her. she got the shivers. I don't know what it means but I trust her like the Log Lady trusts her log so I am letting people know.

I love old foxy Bobby too, at least to look at, but I will never ever forget "Bobby's in charge now, understand?!" and my assumption, at least, is that Shelly had learned enough to get the hell out the first time she saw a sign like that, even if it took her a little while to get all the way out, and that is why they are not together now. except the tragedy is she only sees it if they show her, and all Balthazar Getty has to do is not show her. because she's happy not to see it, so it's easy for him. and even sober old nice-now Bobby won't protect her from her own daughter, the other threat to her, because she's his daughter too.
posted by queenofbithynia at 7:16 PM on July 23 [4 favorites]

Also I am sad we only have a handful of episodes left. :(

i wouldn't be sad yet, we're only two episodes into the second half of the season and have about seven hours of Twin Peaks left. i would assume that a LOT is going to happen in those seven hours.
posted by JimBennett at 7:17 PM on July 23 [1 favorite]

& as extremely unspeakably bad as Richard is, I hate Steven more. not a measured moral judgement I just want his face stomped. have wanted it since his very first scene.

& when Mitchum talked other Mitchum into no murders if there's pie, and then there was pie, and then they were so nice to him, and it was all sincere, I could have cried.
posted by queenofbithynia at 7:27 PM on July 23 [7 favorites]

I also screamed in honor of FatherDragon when Miriam appeared! And I need to watch again, but as horrific Shelly on the hood of the car was, it seemed like she looked like a painting.

David Lynch also dressed one of his sons in his likeness as Mrs. Tremond's grandson back in the day. Repeated cycles of life indeed.

I don't event know how to process the exorcist kid.
posted by armacy at 7:30 PM on July 23 [2 favorites]


I mean I yell this at the television every week since TP started up again but SERIOUSLY WHAT THE FUCK???
posted by hippybear at 7:32 PM on July 23 [2 favorites]

I saw Alicia Witt's name in the credits and had to rewind. That's her in the stairwell with Becky's Leo.
posted by Ruki at 7:40 PM on July 23 [1 favorite]

Also, other than the limited about of time available, I'm okay with Dougie over Cooper. We haven't had a moment where it would have made sense for him to be back yet. And my back of the envelop math seems to say that we've seen more of Dougie than Mr. C, so ...
posted by armacy at 7:40 PM on July 23


I think I responded to that Craigslist ad once.
posted by hippybear at 7:42 PM on July 23 [8 favorites]

[soft crunching]
posted by sparkletone at 7:43 PM on July 23 [1 favorite]


I am pretty sure the timing is not right for that to have been a tribute to George Romero but I immediately thought of this scene from NOTLD.

armacy, agreed. Shelly is gorgeous in every scene. The scene with her and Harry Dean Stanton was so touching.

Also, Steven's face is SO punchable. I mean, at least Richard has the decency not to sport a crustache.
posted by Brittanie at 7:48 PM on July 23 [1 favorite]

I realized I have no memories of specific heinous things Balthazar Getty has done other than be a drug dealer and amateur real magician and look a little too much like Charlie Sheen, so if he decides he's had enough of working around his two idiot boys and takes out Steven and Richard both just to smooth out his operation a little bit, this could still be a happy ending for Shelly and a pretty good romantic choice in context.

or maybe Steven doesn't work for him even indirectly but who cares, he's still a bad advertisement for the product. you want a customer with a little more panache
posted by queenofbithynia at 7:58 PM on July 23 [1 favorite]

Damn it, bright, intelligent young Gersten Hayward from the dinner scene in the original series is with that douche canoe? That's like the saddest thing so far.

Her sister Harriet better be, like, the youngest and first woman president, who is also poet laureate.
posted by jason_steakums at 8:00 PM on July 23 [3 favorites]

We're halfway through the season and there are still so many questions to be answered. Who is Richard Horne and who are his parents? Who is the mysterious billionaire, what is that box, and how did they figure out the technology to build it because that's some Blue Rose shit right there? Where did the guard go (so Tracey could go in)? Is Johnny Horne ok? Is Jerry Horne ok? What is that humming? What is the mothfrog and who is that girl? What does the Woodman's speech mean? What did the Woodsmen do with Bob? Who is the Giant? What's up with Laura being a mystical orb? Where is Ruth's body? How did Boop create Dougie and why did it take him 13 years to do so? Who is Becky's father? What's up with Diane? Where is Audrey?

Quoting myself from the episode 9 thread. Getting three of my questions answered is very satisfying.

I loooooved this episode. "He's dead." We had to pause until we stopped laughing.

We were stunned at how much empathy we felt for Bobby fricking Briggs. He's so obviously still in love with Shelley, and Shelley continues to make bad decisions in her life. Becky is so her mother's daughter. It's heartbreaking.

We were also all "Fuck yeah, Miriam!" I was NOT expecting that. I thought the trailer was going to go boom with her in it. Suck it, Richard Horne!

Albert, Gordon, and Diane could see the Woodsmen, but Tammy couldn't. Why?

& as extremely unspeakably bad as Richard is, I hate Steven more.

I felt that way about Leo and Bobby, respectively, in the original series. Leo was pure evil, like Richard, but Bobby's and Steven's violence was more true to life, in that I've known people like them. I've dated people like them. Which is also why I'm so surprised that I feel so much for Bobby now.

I'm more than okay with Donna not being in The Return, because she was pretty awful. As is Gersten, it seems. I wish Harriet was in this to be the best Haywood sister.
posted by Ruki at 8:03 PM on July 23 [1 favorite]

That was a Damn Fine hour of television right there. Damn fine!
posted by hippybear at 8:03 PM on July 23 [2 favorites]

We were stunned at how much empathy we felt for Bobby fricking Briggs.

Watching his face melt when he watched Shelley getting all over that guy was truly heartbreaking.
posted by hippybear at 8:04 PM on July 23 [4 favorites]

Becky is so her mother's daughter. It's heartbreaking.

yeah but she's her father's daughter twice as hard! all that loose-cannon indignant rage without any inborn malice but with a real gun. it wouldn't worry me a bit if I could be sure it would be aimed only at Steven. but dumb young people have bad aim.

Shelly was ten times more hard-headed than Becky at that age (or younger -- I assume Becky is played younger than the actress, but she can't be quite as young as Shelly was.) she stayed with Leo out of fear of death, she didn't go around telling people he was so sweet when he wasn't punching her. She wasn't the brightest, but she was tough and a lot more canny than Bobby. they were probably about equally capable of violence but Shelly could do it cold and out of necessity, and Bobby only if he got really really pissed off and blew up. which made him a little scary even if he was never worse than a dumb idiot with floppy hair, not a force of evil.

this is all very sad to me because having a kid, or something, broke Shelly's toughness. She loved Bobby back in old Twin Peaks but she still wouldn't let him jerk her around, she'd learned self-protection. but then she went and had a kid and unlearned it.
posted by queenofbithynia at 8:13 PM on July 23 [1 favorite]

I got a screengrab of those woodsmen on a staircase in the vortex... that's got to be the FWWM convenience store at the top of those stairs.
posted by jason_steakums at 8:13 PM on July 23 [3 favorites]

The entire Becky/Shelly/Bobby portion of this episode was such an emotional roller coaster. I'd basically given up on the idea of Shelly and Bobby still being together after the Roadhouse scene from what? Episode 2 or 3? Only to have Lynch/Frost bring it right back when Carl calls her "Mrs. Briggs", and at the same time knowing that Bobby has turned his life around in accordance with his dad's dream, and realizing that Becky is his daughter, and that maybe horrible cycles of abuse and violence can be broken and everything's going to work out.

And then motherfucking Red shows up and you realize that nothing is okay and won't be okay for a very long time.
posted by Strange Interlude at 8:17 PM on July 23 [5 favorites]

I got a screengrab of those woodsmen on a staircase in the vortex... that's got to be the FWWM convenience store at the top of those stairs.

Also an echo of the staircase in the Palmer house.
posted by Strange Interlude at 8:19 PM on July 23 [4 favorites]

I'm not gonna lie, I'm beginning to worry -- even as I love the show -- that like maybe a third of this will be resolved in the next seven hours. There just isn't time. And that might be all right if I felt sure Lynch would be back for another season, but who the hell knows? I've been hurt by you before, show.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 8:49 PM on July 23 [2 favorites]

It's weird to me that I've been feeling like the FBI stuff is less akin to classic Twin Peaks than to Alan Moore and Jacen Burrows' (extremely disturbing/basically made out of trigger warnings) Lovecraftian procedural comic Neonomicon, and then Matthew Lillard got all From Beyond-ed.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 9:02 PM on July 23

I'm not gonna lie, I'm beginning to worry -- even as I love the show -- that like maybe a third of this will be resolved in the next seven hours.

I had the same worry two episodes ago, when I posted my list of questions, but the pace is really picking up. So many threads are coming together now. I'm sure there'll be one or two Josie as drawer pull loose ends, but I expect that from Lynch.
posted by Ruki at 9:05 PM on July 23 [1 favorite]

how is this thread not just


posted by kenko at 9:16 PM on July 23 [2 favorites]

Oh, and hey, is the pianist playing "Sycamore Trees"? Also saying "damn good" was the first thing DougieCoop said in a normal voice, right?
posted by kenko at 9:20 PM on July 23

Damn good.

According to the credits the pianist is playing a new Angelo B. composition called Heartbreaking.
posted by JimBennett at 9:20 PM on July 23

Yeah, I just saw that.
posted by kenko at 9:23 PM on July 23

I legit squeed when Dougie said "damn good" when eating that pie.
posted by littlesq at 9:59 PM on July 23 [2 favorites]

But I'm not imagining that he said it in a more natural way than his usual echolalia, right?
posted by kenko at 10:00 PM on July 23 [1 favorite]

The Mitchum brothers are really filling that hole left by the Horne brothers mellowing out with age.
posted by jason_steakums at 10:07 PM on July 23 [3 favorites]

Wait, Ruki crossed out "Is Jerry Horne OK?" on his list of questions. Did that get answered? I don't remember seeing him in this episode. Did I blink and miss it?
posted by One Second Before Awakening at 10:18 PM on July 23 [1 favorite]

I'm so torn. I've been really enjoying all this Dougie stuff, but the anticipation for the moment that Cooper wakes up is so intense, and the show is clearly drawing it out on purpose... How many scenes have there been where it seemed plausible for that moment to happen? The cherry pie bit at the end of the episode, I really thought that might be it. There's something brilliant about this level of teasing the audience. There are 25 years and 11 episodes of anticipation ready to explode. When that awakening finally happens (if it even ever does) then it's going to be one of the most cathartic moments of television history.
posted by One Second Before Awakening at 10:20 PM on July 23

I think it will happen when he is face to face with someone he knows and who knows him, and not before. and if it's going to be bad, it will be Diane.

unless Diane is playing a double secret reverse game and I'm not saying she isn't.

but I am not so eager for him to awaken because I feel pretty secure he won't die before he does. I have no such security about anybody else. like I was pretty scared Gordon would get his head removed instead of scooby doo. and misfortune to Hawk would upset me most of all and I don't feel secure about him at all.
posted by queenofbithynia at 10:26 PM on July 23 [4 favorites]

Wait, Ruki crossed out "Is Jerry Horne OK?" on his list of questions. Did that get answered? I don't remember seeing him in this episode. Did I blink and miss it?

No, I meant to cross out Johnny and didn't notice until after the edit window had passed. Mea culpa. (And her, FYI.)
posted by Ruki at 10:44 PM on July 23

I like how Mike is balancing things out by giving Coop some of his deserved karma, and in this case, in the form of something he loves very much.
posted by destructive cactus at 2:13 AM on July 24 [1 favorite]

I woke up thinking about the moment where "mom! I'm so sorry you were on the hood of my car!" and then Shelly sees her shiny boyfriend and runs away instead of being a parent.

Also I wish Angelo had been the piano player. (I met him! Went to see David Lynch speak in Brooklyn and he called out to Angelo in the audience and he was pretty much in front of me!)
posted by armacy at 5:27 AM on July 24

Also, also is that a mushroom cloud on the Woodman's wall in jason_steakums's screengrab or do I need more coffee this am?
posted by armacy at 5:28 AM on July 24 [3 favorites]

Some people on Reddit have pointed out that at the very top of the stairs in that screenshot, between some woodsmen, is a pattern that looks an awful lot like the wallpaper in that painting the Tremonds gave Laura in FWWM.
posted by jason_steakums at 7:06 AM on July 24

Getty is A. a literal magician and B. Becky just tried to fucking kill her own mother with her own mother's car and then murder that very nice Alicia Witt (I don't count or care about Steven obvs) so sniping at Shelly for kissing her damn boyfriend after having her motherly sacrifice thrown back in her face is a little amazing. what she should have done is reported her car stolen and then furiously laid down the law, but as previously noted she has gone soft.

if Shelly knows anything about Red's illegal activities it is yet to be established. there is no evidence that he is violent towards her; the audience may be sure he will become so but she doesn't know that. she has been a model of counterproductive guilty saintliness towards a daughter who does actually deserve sympathy and understanding for her own abuse, but since she's denying it to her parents, they don't know that. kissing her damn boyfriend is not an offense against Family on the level of Becky's belated "oops sorry I tried to murder you and stole your car, mom, did you scrape your elbow" bit.
posted by queenofbithynia at 7:15 AM on July 24 [2 favorites]

Here's what I've realized:

Coop is back. Everything we expect from Coop has been showing up: He loves coffee and pie, and says "Damn good." He solves crimes in weird, intuitive ways. He wears a black suit. He's unexpectedly good at gambling. He gives thumb's up gestures. He's handy in a fight.

It's all there, but Lynch has put it into the show in such a strange way, and doles it out over such a long time, that it feels barely present. But it's Coop in slow motion.

It's almost like a satire. You want Coop back? You get him. But you only get one little piece of him, once per episode, for 11 hours or more.

It's also an extraordinary cat and mouse game, because the audience keeps waiting for him to wake up. If he were just a void, it would be unbearable, but becuse he's a void that sometimes acts like Coop, we pay extra attention, looking for those Cooper moments, rewarded with them once per episode, but with no indication as to when the pace will speed up, when we'll get more than one per episode, when Cooper will just be Cooper, instead of the void that sometimes acts like Cooper.

But I honestly think if we just grabbed the Cooper moments that have shown up in the past 11 episodes and stitched them together, we'd have a solid 10 minutes of classic Coop.
posted by maxsparber at 7:15 AM on July 24 [12 favorites]

It's all there, but Lynch has put it into the show in such a strange way, and doles it out over such a long time, that it feels barely present. But it's Coop in slow motion.

very true! Cooper was always enjoyably unflappable, and though compassionate, had an occasional coldness that came out at surprising times. now, here, he takes everything as it comes and is surprised or unsurprised by everything equally; he's helping people left and right, refusing to judge anyone because he is entirely incapable of it, making women (casino woman and Janey both) adore him without himself feeling anything personal towards them that can be clearly identified.

all he's lost is his dialogue and speed of response

but I mean, his dialogue was very good so I do hope he gets it back sooner or later.
posted by queenofbithynia at 7:24 AM on July 24 [2 favorites]

sorry I am a little enraged at this idea I keep seeing on reddit and elsewhere that Shelly dumped Bobby because he's not a bad boy anymore. he's a fucking COP. yes, a darling Twin Peaks cop, but even in Twin Peaks, only Hawk is both a cop and a saint. Cops and bad boys are the same type, not opposing types.

plus, I don't believe we know whose idea the divorce/separation was or when it happened. plus, we don't know that Bobby sadface means he still loves Shelly rather than, say, knowing that Red's under investigation but he can't tell Shelly without fucking it all up, and feeling guilty about that. or just plain regret for a failed marriage with or without jealousy.

plus, never forget Miss Twin Peaks! Not Bobby's brief attempt at asserting Leo-esque control over his woman, which i am willing to believe was a temporary aberration though still a breakup-worthy one; the whole plot point where he kept telling Shelly her looks were her greatest asset and that her insistence that she could make something of herself based on any other attributes was nonsense. Is he the reason she's still a diner waitress after all this time? probably not, but it's as likely as the idea that she dumped him because he got too nice and she's a masochist.

also, bad old boy Bobby would never have had the restraint to keep from beating the mustache off of Steven with whatever weapons he had to hand and I think this would have been a better choice than his hands-off attitude up till now. while in general I recognize this is not the best way to deal with your daughter's abusive husband, if he's going to get murdered anyway, why not be a good dad and take care of it yourself.
posted by queenofbithynia at 7:35 AM on July 24 [1 favorite]

I'm amused that Bushnell is super proud of himself for buying reinsurance. Are there insurance companies that don't?
posted by paper chromatographologist at 7:35 AM on July 24 [2 favorites]

This episode does call into question Shelley's assertion that James has always been cool, as she demonstrably has terrible taste in men.
posted by maxsparber at 7:37 AM on July 24 [8 favorites]

Also, I was glad to see the limo driver come back. I was hoping when he was driving through the desert he would repeatedly say "As I said, it's kind of hard to make out a red door with all the rocks."
posted by maxsparber at 8:04 AM on July 24 [1 favorite]

I have to say, thinking about the limo driver, Lynch's recycling of cast members is really smart. Because he's dealt with Dougie before, the limo driver just hops out and moves him out of the car seat like a puppet, in the same way the assistant at the office has figured out how to get Dougie to go from one place to another by leading him with coffee.

Everybody spontaneously becomes a Dougie enabler.
posted by maxsparber at 8:35 AM on July 24 [1 favorite]

Her sister Harriet better be, like, the youngest and first woman president, who is also poet laureate.

Sounds about right, Harriet was always a favorite of mine, and kind of a weird, textually-unaccountable crush during my first watch as a 13-year-old in 1990. Looks like the actress who played Harriet is no longer acting, but is now a director/choreographer in Portland. Her CV doesn't include anything about Twin Peaks or acting, but I'm about 85% sure it's the same person. Probably little chance of an appearance, but if she's mentioned at all, I hope she fared better than Gersten.
posted by Strange Interlude at 8:44 AM on July 24

One thing I noticed about the limo driver was his sympathy for Dougie's situation. This isn't the first time he's driven someone out into the desert, and it's always a one way trip for the passenger. The driver isn't going to stick his neck out and save Dougie. But, he's still thinking: "damn shame. Kinda liked the red door guy." as he looks in the rear view at him.

It's the odd humanizing touches that really make me love this show.
posted by honestcoyote at 8:50 AM on July 24 [1 favorite]

Jim Belushi's first scene with the coffee in this episode must be the scene that he's talked about in interviews, about working with Lynch as a director.
posted by kenko at 9:51 AM on July 24

I wonder what Todd VanDerWerff could possibly mean by this:

"The map is also a great example of how Lynch blends absurdity and horror. It’s clearly a prop, even though it’s supposedly an ancient map, and he makes great use of that artifice …"
posted by kenko at 9:55 AM on July 24

WTF, Diane. She totally saw the woodsman didn't say a damn thing. I am losing hope in her inherent goodness.
posted by grumpybear69 at 10:35 AM on July 24

Diane is not good. First she sees the woodsman getting in the car, and says nothing. Then she memorizes the coordinates from the photo Albert shows them. Remember the text from bad Coop? Diane is not good.
posted by mr.marx at 10:53 AM on July 24 [4 favorites]

*Cooper regains his sentience*

"Gordon, it's been a long time!"

*looks around the room, sees Diane. Makes a worried eye motion to Cole about this*

posted by destructive cactus at 11:04 AM on July 24 [1 favorite]

Also saying "damn good" was the first thing DougieCoop said in a normal voice, right?

Not just that, but I believe when he said 'Dougie Jones', that may have been the first time he didn't just echo the last words someone said, but supplied additional info - they just said 'Dougie' to him, correct?
posted by FatherDagon at 11:22 AM on July 24

Anyone has any idea who the (actor playing the) piano player at the end of the episode is? It's not in the credits and can't find any reference anywhere.
posted by _dario at 3:27 PM on July 24

Diane's being played too directly and blatantly as a villain right now. Feels like misdirection to me. I do think she's got her own plot going, but it's motivated by her long friendship. She doesn't trust the FBI to do the right thing, but also knows bad Coop is pure evil. So playing both sides, and staying in the loop, in order to save her old friend.

On a silly note, I'm hoping Lynch&Frost are old Star Trek fans and are thinking of the "Kirk gets split into good Kirk and evil Kirk by a transporter malfunction" episode. And that to save Coop, Diane somehow has to get bad Coop and good Coop together on the transporter pad in the lodge and make him whole.
posted by honestcoyote at 4:29 PM on July 24 [2 favorites]

There's a transporter pad? I missed that. What episode was that in?
posted by hippybear at 4:50 PM on July 24

I'm hoping when Gordon meets Dougie for the first time, he realizes that he's just got a little garmonbozia lodged in his throat and needs to dislodge it before Coop can finally wake up.

posted by duffell at 4:53 PM on July 24

I kind of want Cooper to have his big faceoff with Cooplicate as DougieCoop. Cooper originally faced his doppelganger with imperfect courage, per Hawk's Lodge lore in the original series, and that's likely how the doppelganger got the upper hand... but DougieCoop's courage is pretty much perfect because he doesn't know any better and just rolls with everything.
posted by jason_steakums at 5:07 PM on July 24 [2 favorites]

And I just would love to see big badass Mr. C terrified of friendly, naive DougieCoop.
posted by jason_steakums at 5:08 PM on July 24 [2 favorites]

I think it's interesting that people keep thinking Cooper is on the verge of "waking up" when he's basically in the exact same state he was when he came first through the wall socket. Arguably, "Jade give two rides" is still the most coherent thing he's said.
posted by speicus at 5:24 PM on July 24 [1 favorite]

I think it's interesting that people keep thinking Cooper is on the verge of "waking up"

I think it's interesting people seem certain he ever will!

but also I think it's extraordinarily heartening how resolute everybody is in considering him the "real" Cooper, even though in everyday ordinary life people are so quick to say that our memories are all we have and what make us who we are. Bad Cooper has either all of that or a working copy of much of it, and good Cooper has none of it, only a pure essence and one or two impulses. and yet he is so clearly the "real one." continuity of consciousness can go fuck itself, I guess. but seriously I think it is wonderful.
posted by queenofbithynia at 5:32 PM on July 24 [1 favorite]

I can't believe I've been thinking off and on about Gordon Cole's drawing of an antlered deer from last week all this time and it just now hit me... Buckhorn. It's probably just Buckhorn.

I mean I was all "Oh he's probably misinterpreting vague pictures from a vision he had and it's BOB's arm reaching for Jerry Horne while he stumbles into the Lodge and he mixed up Horne/antlers from the vision and..." but no, probably it's just Buckhorn. Way simpler. And the arm is like the long arm of the law or Cole expressing how he's reaching to grasp what's going on in this town.
posted by jason_steakums at 8:18 PM on July 24


REMEMBER WHEN I SAID probably somebody else said it first BUT ALSO I SAID the big theme of the season is David Lynch taking Kids in the Hall sketches and remaking them very literally and very scarily


"Look at him, mom! He's confused!"
posted by queenofbithynia at 8:52 PM on July 24 [10 favorites]

In that case, this is almost certainly the origin of the charred hobos.

Also uh I kinda want Scott Thompson to just show up as Francesca Fiore in the show with no comment like she's been a long running character who has been with us the whole time.
posted by jason_steakums at 10:02 PM on July 24 [3 favorites]

For me the most touching moment in the episode--even more than hearing Cooper's real voice say 'Damn good' or seeing Bobby and Shelly together--is when it looks like Gordon is fading out, in grave danger, about to get sucked away into the Black Lodge or something.

And Albert just reaches out and puts a hand on his friend's shoulder and everything is fine.

(But of course nothing is fine because Diane just stands there and lets that evil hobo sneak up and blow poor Matthew Lillard's brains out.)

Also I just loved the juxtaposition of the crazy high-tech CGI portal in the sky that Gordon is seeing vs. the David Lynch low-fi distortion effects of how Gordon appears from Albert's point of view or as we see him (from the portals POV?) vs. the totally calm wide shot of everybody with Gordon quietly standing there holding his arms up (maybe Diane's POV?). Damn, that's good television.
posted by straight at 12:27 AM on July 25 [7 favorites]

One of my favourite bits was just the TPPD dispatcher, calmly telling all the people who were ringing in to report gunshots that the police were on their way.

What non-supernatural ailment could the young girl in the car be suffering from? That turnaround - the irritating car horn, the manic woman screaming at Bobby, then the reveal that she's probably right to be manic - was remarkable.

I love the way that the series initially appeared to be hokey and maybe a bit Ed Wood, and by this point it's evident quite how sophisticated it actually is.
posted by Grangousier at 2:05 AM on July 25 [2 favorites]

Oh, and this weeks foolish conjecture: I was struck by Diane's insistence on smoking. At first I thought she wanted a plausible excuse to leave the room to contact whoever, but since Hawk made the association between electricity and a certain kind of fire, wondered whether the fire in the cigarette was a way for her to open a connection to whoever and allow them to watch the meeting.

Sorry if that's a bit angels-on-pinhead-calculating.
posted by Grangousier at 2:31 AM on July 25 [6 favorites]

Grangousier, I would not assume the fire of the cigarette is a literal plot element like you suggest -- though I wouldn't rule it out either. I do think it is symbolic, though, now that you point it out.

But is it "black fire"? Certainly, in a very pedestrian way, a lit cigarette is death + fire. As someone said in an earlier thread, sometime Lynch is just as confusing when he is being blunt as he is when he is being obscure.

And how does that relate to the scene where Gordon takes a puff off of Diane's cigarette?
posted by He Is Only The Imposter at 8:25 AM on July 25

I had the same thought about cigarettes being "black fire," which aligns with the idea that Diane is bad or in cahoots with bad folks. Black fire leads to / indicates the Black Lodge, right?

Albert: Looks like a campfire. What is this?
Hawk: It's not a campfire. It's-it's a-a fire symbol.
Albert: What's that mean?
Hawk: It's a a type of fire. More like like modern-day electricity.
Albert: Good?
Hawk: Depends, depends upon the intention, the intention behind the fire.

I hate to say it, but Diane's intentions seem bad at the moment. I agree that she saw the dirty bearded shadow man a few times before he bit/tore the head off of Shaggy, and she didn't look disturbed by it, though she later says "I think I saw somebody like that getting out of the police car." -- but she doesn't say she saw someone like that getting in.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:39 AM on July 25

I'm not sure why she said anything in the first place. She's playing a strange game.
posted by jason_steakums at 8:59 AM on July 25

We know Bob can inhabit anyone/any man, but what about women? Perhaps Diane is possessed and sometimes isn't acting as Diane? [I know, it sounds crazy, but that's where I am regarding logic on this show.]
posted by filthy light thief at 9:33 AM on July 25

Certainly, in a very pedestrian way, a lit cigarette is death + fire.

Didn't Albert tell her that smoking was bad for her at the beginning of that scene?
posted by Grangousier at 9:42 AM on July 25

BOB's goal in the FWWM movie is to possess Laura*. So theoretically Diana could be inhabited. What I don't think is possible is for Bob to inhabit more than one person at a time.

And of course that could be Diane's doppelganger somehow.

And there is whatever Matthew Lillard's wife was. Boop comments that she followed human nature perfectly, which makes me think she is some sort of Lodge denizen or similar creature.

* correct me if the movie does support that as definitively as I think it does.
posted by He Is Only The Imposter at 9:50 AM on July 25 [1 favorite]

Didn't Albert tell her that smoking was bad for her at the beginning of that scene?

"Fuck you, Albert."

(yes he does)
posted by He Is Only The Imposter at 9:51 AM on July 25 [1 favorite]

Boop comments that she followed human nature perfectly, which makes me think she is some sort of Lodge denizen or similar creature.

I thought he just meant that she fully lived up to the everyone's human potential for nastiness and vice, not that she was inhuman and imitating humanity.
posted by kenko at 10:15 AM on July 25 [4 favorites]

I originally thought that line meant she was a Lodge spirit, too, but we never returned to her and now the only character linked to her is dead, so I think it was Mr. C doing a dark Sherlock thing where he intuited the motivations for her actions, etc. He should theoretically be as intuitive as Coop (although I really don't think Darya's dopey boyfriend could've gotten the drop on Agent Cooper).
posted by kittens for breakfast at 1:42 PM on July 25

If she was just Matthew Lillard's unfaithful wife, what was her relationship with Coopleganger? And why kill her?
posted by He Is Only The Imposter at 3:32 PM on July 25

If she was just Matthew Lillard's unfaithful wife, what was her relationship with Coopleganger? And why kill her?

To keep her from spilling any beans? To clean up loose ends? If she was a black lodge confrere, why kill her?
posted by kenko at 3:38 PM on July 25

If she was just Matthew Lillard's unfaithful wife, what was her relationship with Coopleganger? And why kill her?

Based on his relationship/arrangement with Chantal and Hutch (and possibly with Darya and Ray) it seems like Bad Coop just enjoys banging other dudes' wives/girlfriends. Also, he enjoys killing people, so it's kind of a perfect situation all around for him.
posted by Strange Interlude at 9:49 PM on July 25 [3 favorites]

Dance like nobody's watching, slaughter like you're a dark mirror of an FBI agent split from him in a moment of profound, otherworldly terror and host to a murder demon in a jean jacket. You know the old saying.
posted by jason_steakums at 10:06 PM on July 25 [9 favorites]

Strange Interlude, that makes even more sense when compared to the admittedly non-canon Autobiography of Special Agent Dale Cooper tie-in novel from the 90s. Coop Classic had a habit of intentionally and unintentionally dating married women.
posted by infinitewindow at 5:55 AM on July 26 [3 favorites]

Not to mention Good Coop's affair with Caroline Earle, which always seemed like an odd black mark for an otherwise virtuous character.
posted by Strange Interlude at 8:16 AM on July 26

I'm just hoping one of the remaining episodes cuts over to Dick Tremayne hosting a wine-tasting event at the Great Northern for like 5 minutes, with no context or explanation, and is never brought up again.
posted by duffell at 11:28 AM on July 26 [11 favorites]

I'm just hoping one of the remaining episodes cuts over to Dick Tremayne hosting a wine-tasting event at the Great Northern for like 5 minutes

I assume this is a typo for 50 minutes and on those grounds I support this

besides, it would be good symmetry with ep 8. a whole episode devoted to the good that men can do. the very best we can achieve.
posted by queenofbithynia at 3:06 PM on July 26 [3 favorites]

Just open the final episode on Dick Tremayne in a smoking jacket sitting in a leather chair in front of a fireplace, petting a pine weasel and narrating the finale out of nowhere like it's an episode of Fargo.
posted by jason_steakums at 3:28 PM on July 26 [7 favorites]

One of the craziest things in the whole episode is Diane's comment in the police station.

They're out in the middle of nowhere. Nobody around. Suddenly Hastings is violently killed. What happened? Who did that? Did anyone see what happened? Everyone fan out and look around! Is there someone else here? (At lease I assume they made some attempt after the scene ended to figure out what happened?)

Hours later, back at the police station, Diane says. "Oh yeah, I think I saw someone get out of the police car."

What?! How is that possibly an acceptable thing to say at that point? Why isn't anyone demanding to know why she didn't mention that earlier? Even if Gordon, Albert, and Tammy are being extremely cagey about Diane and maybe already decided that the murder was inexplicably supernatural, surely the local cop would have exploded with outraged incomprehension at her dropping this bomb?

The only sense I can make of it is that maybe people aren't seeing the dirty hobos as clearly as we are? Or maybe they're incapable of remembering them? So maybe Diane didn't actually see the hobo creeping up to the car the way we did, but rather just had some uncanny feeling of some kind of presence that she didn't credit until she heard other people talking about seeing glimpses of hobos?
posted by straight at 9:35 PM on July 26

Thinking about Hawk's lovely relationship with Margaret, it doesn't seem he takes her seriously just because he believes in crazy supernatural Twin Peaks stuff but rather than he has a relationship with her and respects her. And in fact one of the things I've always liked about Twin Peaks was how the sometimes oddly-causal way people would entertain supernatural ideas seemed rooted not so much in being blasé about the bizarre as in an attitude of respect, a habit of believing people and taking them seriously unless you have a good reason not to.

But then I think of Special Agent Dale Cooper, and it's like he has a special gift for inspiring that kind of respect. No matter what crazy thing he says or does (I'm looking at you, Tibetan Rock Throwing) people go along with it, not because it seems normal, but because obviously this guy knows what he's doing.

Which brings us to Dougie. Is the way everyone reacts to his odd behavior any different from the way they've always treated Special Agent Dale Cooper? People were occasionally puzzled by Cooper, but no matter what he did, they pretty much just went along with it, shrugging their shoulders with an air of, Well, I guess this is normal?
posted by straight at 9:38 PM on July 26 [8 favorites]

Anyone else feel like Belushi's happy dance with the check was much more of a "We got away with it! We're rich!" than a "They're covering our catastrophic loss after all! We're not ruined!"
posted by straight at 9:41 PM on July 26

I thought somebody would have brought up the fact that the piano player had the most unlifelike depiction of piano playing that I've ever seen. I suppose it had to do with the scene, but I'm just too tired today to try to figure it out.
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 4:58 PM on July 27

And in fact one of the things I've always liked about Twin Peaks was how the sometimes oddly-causal way people would entertain supernatural ideas seemed rooted not so much in being blasé about the bizarre as in an attitude of respect, a habit of believing people and taking them seriously unless you have a good reason not to.

this is the most significant way in which Twin Peaks is like the Narnia books. HEAR ME OUT

you know how when Lucy first goes to Narnia and then comes back out of the closet all full of whacked out stories like poor old Matthew Lillard? there was a FAUN and a LAMPPOST, she says, you don't UNDERSTAND, Agent Preston, you weren't THERE, just read my website, it's all there! now let's all go to Narnia together!

and her siblings go tell on her to the Professor and say What shall we do with our little sister, she is as unhinged as Scooby Doo from the film, it's concerning

and he says (I paraphrase from memory), is your sister a habitual liar? and they say No. and he says, well then, is she bonkers? no, it is plain to see she has not had a complete mental collapse nor is she in the grips of meth psychosis, not that I know what either of those things mean because I do not understand Psychology and it is the nineteen Forties. Therefore, since she is not a liar and she is not bonkers, we must proceed as if she is telling the truth. it's the only polite way, and besides, Plato said to.

and they feel bad because that was so obvious.

but Narnia is not like Twin Peaks in very many other ways.
posted by queenofbithynia at 7:27 PM on July 27 [6 favorites]

Also Turkish Delight represents Pain and Sorrow.
posted by He Is Only The Imposter at 2:56 PM on July 28 [1 favorite]

Tim Roth: "Hey, Boss? Whatever happened to that Horn girl? Audrey? I thought she was part of your big plan?"

BadCoop: "Hmph. She’s interested in nothing nowadays except nylons and lipstick and invitations."

Tim Roth: "Heh. I'll bet being the only survivor of that big explosion was a pretty good shock, eh?"
posted by straight at 4:05 PM on July 28

2017 Laura Dern would make one hell of a White Witch let me tell you.

Peter is every inch of him a James. I have always hated him and I will not apologize for that comparison. "Peter was always cool" is one hundred percent a thing Lucy would have said, years later back in England. in the idiom of her times.

that aside, Twin Peaks is as American as can be and has very little kinship to some English nonsense, I am being extremely inaccurate just to make a couple jokes. Twin Peaks is really much much much more like the Land of Oz: the FBI and much of the police force is just like the various prison guards and soldiers of Oz who are absolutely shocked at the idea some outsiders have that their job has to do with hurting or harming people. the main thing they are for is being highly sincere men who help the unfortunate by offering them a new perspective on things. Gordon Cole and Dale Cooper are straight linear descendants of that particular tradition. Andy is not even a descendant, he is straight out of some 1900 children's utopia without any modifications.

plus, people in Oz get their heads removed on the regular. plus, if you stray from the path the trees will fuck you right up.
posted by queenofbithynia at 4:18 PM on July 28 [3 favorites]

A little brain dump before the new episode...

Hastings and Davenport (possibly also his secretary) were searching for "the Zone"
They made contact with Major Briggs in "the zone". He was hiding/hibernating there, but he was worried that people were going to find him. He wanted to move to a different place, so he asked them to get him coordinates.
He sent them to a secured military database where they found the coordinates. Ruth wrote them on her arm and they went back to meet with him again "last Thursday".
At that meeting "something terrible happened"
"Others" came in and restrained Hastings by the neck, shouting "What's your wife's name?"
Hasting and Davenport managed to give "him" (Briggs) the numbers. Briggs ascends, saying "Cooper. Cooper." Briggs' head disappears.
"There were so many people there."
Davenport died (somehow) and Hasting woke up in his own bed the next morning.
Davenport was decapitated, her head was moved to her apartment. Her body seems to have been left at the scene, stripped nude.
Briggs body was moved to Davenport's apartment.
(Somehow Dougie's wedding ring ends up in the Major's stomach. When we first meet Dougie later he is wearing an Owl Cave ring on his left ring finger and no other rings.)
Eventually Hastings was arrested for the murder of Davenport, and his wife Phyllis intended to ensure that he take the fall for it. She was having an affair with George and "maybe somebody else, too". (Coopleganger, presumably?)
Phyllis returned home and was confronted by DupeCoop. She was surprised to see him but not displeased.
Bad Coop kills her with George's gun. (There is a really cool camera effect when he shoots her. I don't think this is meant to indicate anything in the reality of the story, but is just Lynch being awesome.)

Boop really, really wants (but does not need) some coordinate that Hastings once had. Could be the location where they met Briggs, or it could be the coordinate they found for him. Either way, it implies that CoopDeuce can't get it from the people who killed Davenport. Which makes me think those "people" are not working with Mr. C.

This leaves Second Cooper with only Ray as a connection to Hastings, by way of his secretary. She will only give the numbers to Ray, or at least he says so.

So, speculation: Based on her interaction with DoopleCoople, I think Phyllis is likely a human that he was using to get close to Hastings. But then why does he cut off that avenue when he does? Maybe he and Ray were working things together, and Ray was on the secretary while Coop2 was on the wife, and he judged the wife to be a loose end or risk at that point. But then why do the "people" who killed Davenport want to know about Hasting's wife. They are presumably Lodge or Lodge-adjacent creatures.

Not to forget Philip Jefferies, and who ever answered his phone that one time. There are definitely multiple groups of ne'er-do-wells about.

Briggs's head seems to have made it to the Purple Sea area, or at least withing murmuring distance.
posted by He Is Only The Imposter at 12:40 PM on July 30

Was this the first episode that didn't end at the Roadhouse?
posted by great_radio at 11:42 PM on November 4

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