Logan (2017)
March 4, 2017 10:03 AM - Subscribe
In the near future, a weary Logan cares for an ailing Professor X in a hideout on the Mexican border. But Logan's attempts to hide from the world and his legacy are up-ended when a young mutant arrives, being pursued by dark forces.
AVClub: A- "What’s special about Logan is that it manages to deliver the visceral goods, all the hardcore Wolverine action its fans could desire, while still functioning as a surprisingly thoughtful, even poignant drama—a terrific movie, no “comic-book” qualifier required. Yes, Wolverine finally goes berserk with those claws. But it may be the moments where he doesn’t that cut deepest."
AVClub: A- "What’s special about Logan is that it manages to deliver the visceral goods, all the hardcore Wolverine action its fans could desire, while still functioning as a surprisingly thoughtful, even poignant drama—a terrific movie, no “comic-book” qualifier required. Yes, Wolverine finally goes berserk with those claws. But it may be the moments where he doesn’t that cut deepest."
Laura's actress was one of the best debuts I've seen on the big screen in years. Loved the fight choreography beyond words! (I know Dafne's done a Spanish-language TV show, but this role's going to make her a breakout global star.)
There will never be a better X-Men film. It took superhuman strength not to leave the theater crying.
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 3:39 PM on March 4, 2017 [9 favorites]
There will never be a better X-Men film. It took superhuman strength not to leave the theater crying.
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 3:39 PM on March 4, 2017 [9 favorites]
It wasn't just a great film, or a great superhero film, or the best in the X-Men series; it was the sort of film that I needed to see right now. (The AV Club review notes that the villain is a blond guy named Donald, although the character dates back decades in the comics.) It's a relief to have a comic book movie that doesn't feel overcrowded with characters or special effects, and many of the scenes reminded me (and were probably deliberate call-backs to) the very early scenes in X-Men between Logan and Marie. And, yeah, I lost it a little at the end. One of the few remaining reasons to go see a movie in the theater is that they're dark.
posted by Halloween Jack at 5:26 PM on March 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Halloween Jack at 5:26 PM on March 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
In the car on the way home from seeing it tonight, I ended up in a discussion about how there is a real 1970s feel to a lot of the movies that have come out over the past six to twelve months. Suddenly, it's okay for a picture on the big screen not to have a happy ending or for the main characters not to make it out alive. It has been a while since that has been the prevailing trend, but it certainly feels like it's back.
Even though Laura was reciting the names of her friends, it took me until Logan made it to Eden that I picked up enough of a clue to identify at least some of them as New Mutants I was familiar with from my comic-reading days. Apparently I was a bit slow on the uptake.
Overall, I didn't feel the movie was as strong as some of the reviews indicated (there were some pretty glaring problems/plot holes) but generally I give the team behind the film a lot of credit for trying something different, something mature and something that didn't rely on big CGI explosions. I hope it's the start of a trend in comic book movies.
As for the pre-credit bit, I have no idea why there were Firefly posters in the windows of the abandoned building. And was the graffiti on the phonebooth a promise of a future co-star or just a tease for the fans?
posted by sardonyx at 10:04 PM on March 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
Even though Laura was reciting the names of her friends, it took me until Logan made it to Eden that I picked up enough of a clue to identify at least some of them as New Mutants I was familiar with from my comic-reading days. Apparently I was a bit slow on the uptake.
Overall, I didn't feel the movie was as strong as some of the reviews indicated (there were some pretty glaring problems/plot holes) but generally I give the team behind the film a lot of credit for trying something different, something mature and something that didn't rely on big CGI explosions. I hope it's the start of a trend in comic book movies.
As for the pre-credit bit, I have no idea why there were Firefly posters in the windows of the abandoned building. And was the graffiti on the phonebooth a promise of a future co-star or just a tease for the fans?
posted by sardonyx at 10:04 PM on March 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
There were some plotholes, why is Canada so different from the US? Do we really think that multinational corporations end at the border. Also, how did food manage to eradicate mutants worldwide in such a short space of time.
But apart from that it was a great film. It had such heart, and that's what made it, imo. The relationship between Logan & Charles was beautiful.
We didn't get the Deadpool pre-credit bit where I saw it (Ireland) so no clue about that.
posted by Fence at 6:15 AM on March 5, 2017 [2 favorites]
But apart from that it was a great film. It had such heart, and that's what made it, imo. The relationship between Logan & Charles was beautiful.
We didn't get the Deadpool pre-credit bit where I saw it (Ireland) so no clue about that.
posted by Fence at 6:15 AM on March 5, 2017 [2 favorites]
I knew what was coming after they showed the clip from Shane, but until the end I was hoping he would lead the children to Canada and start a new school.
There was pretty much zero hope of that from the jump, I felt. He was right, everyone he gets close to gets hurt, and I think it was important that they cross the border without him, in keeping with the idea of leaving the old ways behind.
Not to get too grandiose about it, but there was a "Moses dying within sight of the promised land" aspect to his end that really got me. He got to hold his daughter and hear her call him "Daddy" as he took his final breaths.
I'm a sucker for the "I found what I didn't know I was looking for" ending, and I feel like this one was perfect for the years and years of stories he's done. He found his place, however briefly.I'm going to be mad if he makes another one.
And oh, Patrick. Patrick, you just keep justifying my love for you over and over again.
posted by middleclasstool at 8:05 AM on March 5, 2017 [12 favorites]
There was pretty much zero hope of that from the jump, I felt. He was right, everyone he gets close to gets hurt, and I think it was important that they cross the border without him, in keeping with the idea of leaving the old ways behind.
Not to get too grandiose about it, but there was a "Moses dying within sight of the promised land" aspect to his end that really got me. He got to hold his daughter and hear her call him "Daddy" as he took his final breaths.
I'm a sucker for the "I found what I didn't know I was looking for" ending, and I feel like this one was perfect for the years and years of stories he's done. He found his place, however briefly.I'm going to be mad if he makes another one.
And oh, Patrick. Patrick, you just keep justifying my love for you over and over again.
posted by middleclasstool at 8:05 AM on March 5, 2017 [12 favorites]
Also, the Deadpool clip online is longer than what they showed at my theater. No Stan Lee, and I don't remember him making a phone call.
posted by middleclasstool at 8:06 AM on March 5, 2017
posted by middleclasstool at 8:06 AM on March 5, 2017
No Deadpool clip when we saw it here in the UK on Friday either.
X-Men film continuity is now... confused to put it mildly. You can say that the events of Days of Future Past led to a new timeline, except that the original timeline of that film is itself plainly inconsistent with X-Men 3. For that matter, it seems that in a few years we've gone from the 2023 of the changed timeline of DoFP to the 2029 of Logan.
The apparent explanation, somewhat implicit in various comments within the film, is that Professor X's previous really bad seizure (referred to as an incident in Westchester, location of the X-Mansion) was in fact so serious that it killed most if not all of the other X-Men.
Stephen Merchant does a very good turn as Caliban, but his distinctive accent was bothering me for a couple of minutes until I realised "oh, of course, it's Wheatley from Portal 2."
posted by Major Clanger at 9:15 AM on March 5, 2017 [2 favorites]
X-Men film continuity is now... confused to put it mildly. You can say that the events of Days of Future Past led to a new timeline, except that the original timeline of that film is itself plainly inconsistent with X-Men 3. For that matter, it seems that in a few years we've gone from the 2023 of the changed timeline of DoFP to the 2029 of Logan.
The apparent explanation, somewhat implicit in various comments within the film, is that Professor X's previous really bad seizure (referred to as an incident in Westchester, location of the X-Mansion) was in fact so serious that it killed most if not all of the other X-Men.
Stephen Merchant does a very good turn as Caliban, but his distinctive accent was bothering me for a couple of minutes until I realised "oh, of course, it's Wheatley from Portal 2."
posted by Major Clanger at 9:15 AM on March 5, 2017 [2 favorites]
middleclasstool: I'm going to be mad if he makes another one.
From IMDB: This is the last film in which Hugh Jackman will play Wolverine.
posted by rawrberry at 10:04 AM on March 5, 2017 [1 favorite]
From IMDB: This is the last film in which Hugh Jackman will play Wolverine.
posted by rawrberry at 10:04 AM on March 5, 2017 [1 favorite]
I am absolutely not worried about the X-movies continuity, because I'm fairly sure that the revision done in DOFP was to acknowledge that X3 was a big fucking mistake and we're going to pretend that it never happened. And they're going to have movies set in the sixties, seventies and eighties and not acknowledge that the principals didn't really age over twenty years because it's just a big hassle. I'm fairly sure that, if anyone tried to outline the continuity (original and revised) out on a big piece of butcher paper, that butcher paper ended up in the trash early on in the production with numerous crossings-out and a big red "FUCK IT" scrawled over it.
That having been said, I did wonder what would happen to the kids once they crossed the border; if they'd be raised and trained by Alpha Flight, or if the voice on the radio was Kitty Pryde (an elegant way of bringing Canadian Ellen Page home) or Rogue. But the movie does fine in its own particular groove: showing Logan and Charles clinging together even though they're in very different places, and reaching out to the X-Babies to pass on what hope and courage that they could.
posted by Halloween Jack at 11:17 AM on March 5, 2017 [4 favorites]
That having been said, I did wonder what would happen to the kids once they crossed the border; if they'd be raised and trained by Alpha Flight, or if the voice on the radio was Kitty Pryde (an elegant way of bringing Canadian Ellen Page home) or Rogue. But the movie does fine in its own particular groove: showing Logan and Charles clinging together even though they're in very different places, and reaching out to the X-Babies to pass on what hope and courage that they could.
posted by Halloween Jack at 11:17 AM on March 5, 2017 [4 favorites]
From IMDB: This is the last film in which Hugh Jackman will play Wolverine.
I know, but Miyazaki also "retired". And Jackman said elsewhere that he would have considered an appearance in an Avengers movie, which implies to me that he could be tempted back in.
(I also don't really care about continuity that much. I care more about good stories. Continuity can be a shackle anyway.)
posted by middleclasstool at 11:42 AM on March 5, 2017 [2 favorites]
I know, but Miyazaki also "retired". And Jackman said elsewhere that he would have considered an appearance in an Avengers movie, which implies to me that he could be tempted back in.
(I also don't really care about continuity that much. I care more about good stories. Continuity can be a shackle anyway.)
posted by middleclasstool at 11:42 AM on March 5, 2017 [2 favorites]
The only thing I really had a problem with was the X-24 clone. Yeah, I know all the reasons for including it - a big bad boss battle to up the stakes, someone on whom Laura can use the adamantium bullet. It's just that I felt all the buy-ins for the movie were at the start - that Wolverine and is losing his powers and a company is creating mutants in labs. Everything after that was relatively grounded - fighting mercenaries, car chases, getting new cars and clothes, etc. Wish they could've stuck to that without another suspension of disbelief buy-in halfway through the movie.
posted by bluecore at 12:19 PM on March 5, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by bluecore at 12:19 PM on March 5, 2017 [1 favorite]
Marvel movies are always good, but rarely bring such heart. Logan's longing for closure is palpable all through the movie. The final turn, where Laura uproots the cross at his grave and rotates it to make an X, almost made me lose it. This wasn't just a good X-Men movie, this was a good movie that happened to be about some X-Men characters, and it was very well done.
It's also the first Marvel movie I can remember that didn't have an easter egg in the credits. Of course, it being Wolverine's swan song, there is a bit of finality to be emphasized, but I still thought we might see the kids settling in to their new lives finally free from their pursuers. But no, forty or so people stayed in the theatre waiting to see and in the end it was just a normal movie credit roll.
posted by Bringer Tom at 2:08 PM on March 5, 2017 [5 favorites]
It's also the first Marvel movie I can remember that didn't have an easter egg in the credits. Of course, it being Wolverine's swan song, there is a bit of finality to be emphasized, but I still thought we might see the kids settling in to their new lives finally free from their pursuers. But no, forty or so people stayed in the theatre waiting to see and in the end it was just a normal movie credit roll.
posted by Bringer Tom at 2:08 PM on March 5, 2017 [5 favorites]
I know it's supposed to be the last Hugh Jackman Wolverine film... but I still had a very strong urge to see, either before or after the credits, after Laura walks away, or maybe a few days later - a single shot of Wolverine's arm thrusting up out of his grave.;)
posted by bitterkitten at 5:17 PM on March 5, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by bitterkitten at 5:17 PM on March 5, 2017 [5 favorites]
I loved it.
I do hope that this doesn't become a 'trend' like we have to watch dirt covered Ben Afleck doing "passion of the batman". Because what's special about this project has a lot to do with the near 20 year history of these two actors being in these two roles. Also the meta-narrative of wolverine as a highly rated R character having spent all that time in PG-13. There's a lot of baggage, good and bad that this film manages to work with in a really smart way to make a movie about the characters being as sick of this shit as the audience might be.
I hope it's not replicated, but I'm sure some executive is gonna think "blood and grimness and tragedy is what makes the cash!" and green-lights a brutal fatalistic fantastic four reboot. "It's like no country for old men but with a stretchy guy!"
posted by French Fry at 5:20 PM on March 5, 2017 [16 favorites]
I do hope that this doesn't become a 'trend' like we have to watch dirt covered Ben Afleck doing "passion of the batman". Because what's special about this project has a lot to do with the near 20 year history of these two actors being in these two roles. Also the meta-narrative of wolverine as a highly rated R character having spent all that time in PG-13. There's a lot of baggage, good and bad that this film manages to work with in a really smart way to make a movie about the characters being as sick of this shit as the audience might be.
I hope it's not replicated, but I'm sure some executive is gonna think "blood and grimness and tragedy is what makes the cash!" and green-lights a brutal fatalistic fantastic four reboot. "It's like no country for old men but with a stretchy guy!"
posted by French Fry at 5:20 PM on March 5, 2017 [16 favorites]
Wow, that was impressively well done. I agree with French Fry - Jackman earned Logan's grimness.
Anyone here ever been in a really bad fight with a feral dog or similar sized wild animal? I have, and seeing the fear in the faces of the goons as Laura closed the distance way to fast brought back some really unpleasant memories.
That being said, I'll probably still see this again. I'd likely go out to see her reprise the roll in the future.
posted by LegallyBread at 5:25 PM on March 5, 2017 [1 favorite]
Anyone here ever been in a really bad fight with a feral dog or similar sized wild animal? I have, and seeing the fear in the faces of the goons as Laura closed the distance way to fast brought back some really unpleasant memories.
That being said, I'll probably still see this again. I'd likely go out to see her reprise the roll in the future.
posted by LegallyBread at 5:25 PM on March 5, 2017 [1 favorite]
There will be CLOBBERIN'
posted by Sebmojo at 5:30 PM on March 5, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Sebmojo at 5:30 PM on March 5, 2017 [4 favorites]
I enjoyed this grim and loving movie immensely. I would also like to see a fan edit that removes:
– all the other kids
– evil terminator Wolverine
– the scene about corn syrup?!?
– the evil lab
– the Mexican border wall and douchebro partiers in limos
– Caliban
Just make the nurse the mom running from the government, and the story about Wolverine and wee Wolfie running and kicking ass, while Wolverine finally finds something worth doing.
I would like to see that spare, tight movie.
posted by zippy at 8:51 PM on March 5, 2017 [4 favorites]
– all the other kids
– evil terminator Wolverine
– the scene about corn syrup?!?
– the evil lab
– the Mexican border wall and douchebro partiers in limos
– Caliban
Just make the nurse the mom running from the government, and the story about Wolverine and wee Wolfie running and kicking ass, while Wolverine finally finds something worth doing.
I would like to see that spare, tight movie.
posted by zippy at 8:51 PM on March 5, 2017 [4 favorites]
The final turn, where Laura uproots the cross at his grave and rotates it to make an X, almost made me lose it.
I was involved emotionally in the movie and very much enjoying it, but didn't actually get choked up until Laura laid the cross down as an X.
The stranger next to me audibly (and understandably) wept.
posted by doctornecessiter at 7:07 AM on March 6, 2017 [5 favorites]
I was involved emotionally in the movie and very much enjoying it, but didn't actually get choked up until Laura laid the cross down as an X.
The stranger next to me audibly (and understandably) wept.
posted by doctornecessiter at 7:07 AM on March 6, 2017 [5 favorites]
I'm not sure you'd have much of the actual movie left at that point. By X-Men franchise standards, it's already pretty close to the bone. Removing all of the stuff that you mention literally irons out all of the interesting wrinkles.
– the scene about corn syrup?!?
That was crucial to the movie's no-more-mutants subplot. It tied the ubiquitous energy-drink ad signage (and the GMO corn commercial playing in the bar) to the Richard E. Grant character's revelation about ending naturally-occurring mutancy by sneaking gene therapy into the food supply.
It's important to the movie because it basically upends the reason for Prof. Xavier's optimism in the previous films: That the arc of history for mutants would inevitably bend towards justice, because mutants would eventually become a majority through gradual evolution. The movie proves that Magneto was essentially right about humanity exterminating all mutants, although not in the way that he or anyone else would have expected.
posted by Strange Interlude at 7:25 AM on March 6, 2017 [28 favorites]
– the scene about corn syrup?!?
That was crucial to the movie's no-more-mutants subplot. It tied the ubiquitous energy-drink ad signage (and the GMO corn commercial playing in the bar) to the Richard E. Grant character's revelation about ending naturally-occurring mutancy by sneaking gene therapy into the food supply.
It's important to the movie because it basically upends the reason for Prof. Xavier's optimism in the previous films: That the arc of history for mutants would inevitably bend towards justice, because mutants would eventually become a majority through gradual evolution. The movie proves that Magneto was essentially right about humanity exterminating all mutants, although not in the way that he or anyone else would have expected.
posted by Strange Interlude at 7:25 AM on March 6, 2017 [28 favorites]
pretty close to the bone
Running time: 2 hours 21 minutes
posted by zippy at 8:26 AM on March 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
Running time: 2 hours 21 minutes
posted by zippy at 8:26 AM on March 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
I found the No-More-Mutants mass gene therapy subplot quietly vital. If this is going to be a movie playing within the greater X-men genre, a core X-men tenet is the allegory for civil rights that over time came to be specifically a reference to sexual/gender/ability civil rights.
The idea that genetic therapy could/would be used to eradicate gay or trans or disabled people from the population is a real issue right now. That is actively moving from science fiction to social issue in real time. That soft-eugenics argument is one we'll be having soon. I think it's a valuable science boogeyman to include in the film.
posted by French Fry at 8:56 AM on March 6, 2017 [26 favorites]
The idea that genetic therapy could/would be used to eradicate gay or trans or disabled people from the population is a real issue right now. That is actively moving from science fiction to social issue in real time. That soft-eugenics argument is one we'll be having soon. I think it's a valuable science boogeyman to include in the film.
posted by French Fry at 8:56 AM on March 6, 2017 [26 favorites]
I totally missed the corn-corn syrup-gmo-no more mutants angle, but I also had some trouble hearing crucial dialog. Some MORON brought his 4-year-old kid (to a 9:45 start time showing!) and the wee tyke was not happy being there. Critical dialogue points were covered up by "Daddy! Daddy! Who is that? Put me down!" (unfortunately MORON dad didn't get the not-so-subtle hints from others in the audiance to maybe just give up and leave).
I also missed Prof X and Logan's final words as well. Guess I need to attend a second showing.
But, even with MORON dad and poor wee tyke, it was a good movie and I'm glad to have caught it on the big screen.
posted by jazon at 9:58 AM on March 6, 2017
I also missed Prof X and Logan's final words as well. Guess I need to attend a second showing.
But, even with MORON dad and poor wee tyke, it was a good movie and I'm glad to have caught it on the big screen.
posted by jazon at 9:58 AM on March 6, 2017
I also entirely missed food being used to suppress mutants (thank you, Strange Interlude). I was thinking during the movie that it was a Children of Men scenario.
posted by zippy at 10:07 AM on March 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by zippy at 10:07 AM on March 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
pretty close to the bone
Running time: 2 hours 21 minutes
But when you remember that all of the other movies cram essentially 6 hours' worth of plot and character backstory into 2 hour running times, this is still the leanest and meanest X-Men movie by far. This film was blessedly free of the egregious shoehorning of something like Apocalypse, where they introduce dozens of classic characters but don't really let us get to know them as anything other than walking special FX.
posted by Strange Interlude at 12:14 PM on March 6, 2017 [4 favorites]
Running time: 2 hours 21 minutes
But when you remember that all of the other movies cram essentially 6 hours' worth of plot and character backstory into 2 hour running times, this is still the leanest and meanest X-Men movie by far. This film was blessedly free of the egregious shoehorning of something like Apocalypse, where they introduce dozens of classic characters but don't really let us get to know them as anything other than walking special FX.
posted by Strange Interlude at 12:14 PM on March 6, 2017 [4 favorites]
The idea that genetic therapy could/would be used to eradicate gay or trans or disabled people from the population is a real issue right now. That is actively moving from science fiction to social issue in real time. That soft-eugenics argument is one we'll be having soon.
It's one we're having right now, thanks to people like Richard Spencer and the neo-Nazi ghouls making up the Trump brain trust. One of the big demographic talking points over the last few years has been how America is expected to become a majority-minority country sometime in the mid-2040s. In reaction to this idea, we have white supremacists doubling down on structural policies specifically designed to inflict maximal harm on non-white, non-Christian, non-hetero/cisgender persons and communities, achieving the aims of genocide under the cover of law, order, and good clean family values.
posted by Strange Interlude at 12:31 PM on March 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
It's one we're having right now, thanks to people like Richard Spencer and the neo-Nazi ghouls making up the Trump brain trust. One of the big demographic talking points over the last few years has been how America is expected to become a majority-minority country sometime in the mid-2040s. In reaction to this idea, we have white supremacists doubling down on structural policies specifically designed to inflict maximal harm on non-white, non-Christian, non-hetero/cisgender persons and communities, achieving the aims of genocide under the cover of law, order, and good clean family values.
posted by Strange Interlude at 12:31 PM on March 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
Chris Claremont was not invited to a screening, attended as a plus one.
posted by 1970s Antihero at 1:41 PM on March 6, 2017
posted by 1970s Antihero at 1:41 PM on March 6, 2017
Claremont was on the thank-you list in the credits, though.
posted by Pallas Athena at 1:53 PM on March 6, 2017
posted by Pallas Athena at 1:53 PM on March 6, 2017
I hope it's not replicated, but I'm sure some executive is gonna think "blood and grimness and tragedy is what makes the cash!" and green-lights a brutal fatalistic fantastic four reboot. "It's like no country for old men but with a stretchy guy!"
This is not far off from the 2015 movie, which had the FF initially imprisoned by the government for no apparent reason (yeah, I know that the government would want to investigate their powers, but did anyone think to ask the kids if they wanted to hang around to do some tests) and forced to act as secret weapons, and much of it was spent in another dimension that may have been intended to stand in for the Negative Zone, but instead looked like The Dimension of The Smartest People In the World Didn't Think To Bring a Fucking Flashlight. They managed to scrape away what modest joys were had in the previous iterations of the franchise, mostly thanks to Chris Evans (not even his best costumed role) and Michael Chiklis (although the rubber Thing suit was, ah, unfortunate). If whoever is in charge of the franchise has even half a brain, they'll take some inspiration from what is still the best FF movie ever done; it has its own criticism of the grim-n-gritty trend in the form of Syndrome.
I found the No-More-Mutants mass gene therapy subplot quietly vital. If this is going to be a movie playing within the greater X-men genre, a core X-men tenet is the allegory for civil rights that over time came to be specifically a reference to sexual/gender/ability civil rights.
I rewatched the first X-Men movie after watching Logan, and the very first scene (after the prologue at Auschwitz, which also makes the point) is Jean Grey testifying before the Senate subcommittee on mutant affairs or whatever it was called, and Robert Kelly promoting his Mutant Registration Act. That someone would come up with their own version of "No More Mutants" is an eminently logical outgrowth of that mindset, that mutants are inherently a threat, regardless of whatever they do or don't do. I'm sure that the justification would be that no one could protest having something taken away if they never had it in the first place.
Some MORON brought his 4-year-old kid (to a 9:45 start time showing!) and the wee tyke was not happy being there.
Reminds me of my viewing of Kill Bill Vol. 1 similarly being disrupted by a very young child. FFS, parents. (At least at my theater, the chain put up little signs by the cash register warning people that Logan was a lot more violent than your typical superhero movie.)
Chris Claremont was not invited to a screening, attended as a plus one.
I'm going to try to be charitable here: Claremont is indeed responsible (or at least co-responsible, since John Byrne deserves some story credit for their collaborations) for some of the best X-Men stories ever done. He's also responsible for some of the worst, especially near the end of his tenure on the book, as his pet tropes overtook him.
posted by Halloween Jack at 3:47 PM on March 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
This is not far off from the 2015 movie, which had the FF initially imprisoned by the government for no apparent reason (yeah, I know that the government would want to investigate their powers, but did anyone think to ask the kids if they wanted to hang around to do some tests) and forced to act as secret weapons, and much of it was spent in another dimension that may have been intended to stand in for the Negative Zone, but instead looked like The Dimension of The Smartest People In the World Didn't Think To Bring a Fucking Flashlight. They managed to scrape away what modest joys were had in the previous iterations of the franchise, mostly thanks to Chris Evans (not even his best costumed role) and Michael Chiklis (although the rubber Thing suit was, ah, unfortunate). If whoever is in charge of the franchise has even half a brain, they'll take some inspiration from what is still the best FF movie ever done; it has its own criticism of the grim-n-gritty trend in the form of Syndrome.
I found the No-More-Mutants mass gene therapy subplot quietly vital. If this is going to be a movie playing within the greater X-men genre, a core X-men tenet is the allegory for civil rights that over time came to be specifically a reference to sexual/gender/ability civil rights.
I rewatched the first X-Men movie after watching Logan, and the very first scene (after the prologue at Auschwitz, which also makes the point) is Jean Grey testifying before the Senate subcommittee on mutant affairs or whatever it was called, and Robert Kelly promoting his Mutant Registration Act. That someone would come up with their own version of "No More Mutants" is an eminently logical outgrowth of that mindset, that mutants are inherently a threat, regardless of whatever they do or don't do. I'm sure that the justification would be that no one could protest having something taken away if they never had it in the first place.
Some MORON brought his 4-year-old kid (to a 9:45 start time showing!) and the wee tyke was not happy being there.
Reminds me of my viewing of Kill Bill Vol. 1 similarly being disrupted by a very young child. FFS, parents. (At least at my theater, the chain put up little signs by the cash register warning people that Logan was a lot more violent than your typical superhero movie.)
Chris Claremont was not invited to a screening, attended as a plus one.
I'm going to try to be charitable here: Claremont is indeed responsible (or at least co-responsible, since John Byrne deserves some story credit for their collaborations) for some of the best X-Men stories ever done. He's also responsible for some of the worst, especially near the end of his tenure on the book, as his pet tropes overtook him.
posted by Halloween Jack at 3:47 PM on March 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
There were kids around 5 at this and when I saw John Wick 2.
I'm a parent of a 5 year old. I can't even imagine. Being a parent has literally no qualifications.
posted by French Fry at 7:37 PM on March 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
I'm a parent of a 5 year old. I can't even imagine. Being a parent has literally no qualifications.
posted by French Fry at 7:37 PM on March 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
zippy: – the Mexican border wall and douchebro partiers in limos
This was actually one of my favorite shots of the movie. Logan working a day (night) job to make enough money for Professor X's medication. It showed how far he'd fallen, how much he cared for Professor X, and how the world of the future wasn't a utopia. It also worked thematically - X-men has always had a theme of society's struggle of acceptance of outsiders and those different from us. What better visual representation of this battle (and Logan's powerlessness in it) than douchebags cheering a stupid fucking wall?
posted by bluecore at 8:03 PM on March 6, 2017 [13 favorites]
This was actually one of my favorite shots of the movie. Logan working a day (night) job to make enough money for Professor X's medication. It showed how far he'd fallen, how much he cared for Professor X, and how the world of the future wasn't a utopia. It also worked thematically - X-men has always had a theme of society's struggle of acceptance of outsiders and those different from us. What better visual representation of this battle (and Logan's powerlessness in it) than douchebags cheering a stupid fucking wall?
posted by bluecore at 8:03 PM on March 6, 2017 [13 favorites]
That was super depressing, realizing that the darkest timeline this story takes place in is actually our very own.
posted by cazoo at 9:39 PM on March 6, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by cazoo at 9:39 PM on March 6, 2017 [12 favorites]
I'm going to try to be charitable here: Claremont is indeed responsible (or at least co-responsible, since John Byrne deserves some story credit for their collaborations) for some of the best X-Men stories ever done. He's also responsible for some of the worst, especially near the end of his tenure on the book, as his pet tropes overtook him.
I agree, but if you're going to acknowledge someone in the credits as part of the creative foundation of your movie, seems a bit rude not to invite him to a screening. Even at his own expense, if you're too cheap to fly him out. But Hollywood has never treated writers with much respect.
posted by middleclasstool at 6:28 AM on March 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
I agree, but if you're going to acknowledge someone in the credits as part of the creative foundation of your movie, seems a bit rude not to invite him to a screening. Even at his own expense, if you're too cheap to fly him out. But Hollywood has never treated writers with much respect.
posted by middleclasstool at 6:28 AM on March 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
So good.
The only thing I really had a problem with was the X-24 clone.
I loathe the Evil Counterpart trope; it's really lazy and shows up in almost every superhero movie. Didn't mind it so much in this film probably because it was such a small part and the rest of the film is so compelling.
posted by P.o.B. at 11:01 AM on March 7, 2017
The only thing I really had a problem with was the X-24 clone.
I loathe the Evil Counterpart trope; it's really lazy and shows up in almost every superhero movie. Didn't mind it so much in this film probably because it was such a small part and the rest of the film is so compelling.
posted by P.o.B. at 11:01 AM on March 7, 2017
I was very worried when they introduced the x-24 idea. I was pleasantly surprised how it worked out. My only complaint about x-24 was I wanted him/it to be worse at fighting. Logan is like 200 years old and has fought a lot, received a lot of training. Why is this literal baby roughly equally well trained?
posted by French Fry at 11:22 AM on March 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by French Fry at 11:22 AM on March 7, 2017 [3 favorites]
How can anyone who's watched enough X-Men movies to notice continuity errors believe they actually are continuity errors?
The canonical X-Men movie universe featuring Hugh Jackman spans 1845 to 2029 and features one incident of time travel altering the entire universe (Example: William Striker, Cyclops, Marvel Girl, Colossus, Storm, Beast and Nightcrawler all look dramatically different and apparently were born at different times than they were originally. Dead people are alive again). Obviously in the century that wasn't covered in the movies a bunch of other time travelers butterfly affected the whole dang universe.
posted by elr at 5:24 PM on March 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
The canonical X-Men movie universe featuring Hugh Jackman spans 1845 to 2029 and features one incident of time travel altering the entire universe (Example: William Striker, Cyclops, Marvel Girl, Colossus, Storm, Beast and Nightcrawler all look dramatically different and apparently were born at different times than they were originally. Dead people are alive again). Obviously in the century that wasn't covered in the movies a bunch of other time travelers butterfly affected the whole dang universe.
posted by elr at 5:24 PM on March 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
Or, in Simpsons terms: a wizard did it
posted by elr at 5:25 PM on March 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by elr at 5:25 PM on March 7, 2017 [2 favorites]
This is my new favorite X-Men movie. I liked how grounded it was. There's no world-shattering apocalypse. It's two men and a little girl on the run. And the powers they have weren't lightning and laser beams.
I think the brutality of the fight scenes was important (and really well done). People die in really terrible ways. It's not just explosions in the distance or people falling where you never see a body. It's bloody, up close, claws to the eyes fighting that would be exactly what someone like Logan would face. It felt realistic and dangerous in a way that comic book movies rarely achieve.
And the family dynamics of Papa Logan and Laura and Grandpa X are great. It gets into the pain of dealing with a parent with dementia, and the themes of passing the torch to the next generation (I liked middleclasstool's parallel with Moses above). Just a lot going on here that I'm probably going to need some time to process.
Really good job on this one.
posted by JDHarper at 7:15 PM on March 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
I think the brutality of the fight scenes was important (and really well done). People die in really terrible ways. It's not just explosions in the distance or people falling where you never see a body. It's bloody, up close, claws to the eyes fighting that would be exactly what someone like Logan would face. It felt realistic and dangerous in a way that comic book movies rarely achieve.
And the family dynamics of Papa Logan and Laura and Grandpa X are great. It gets into the pain of dealing with a parent with dementia, and the themes of passing the torch to the next generation (I liked middleclasstool's parallel with Moses above). Just a lot going on here that I'm probably going to need some time to process.
Really good job on this one.
posted by JDHarper at 7:15 PM on March 7, 2017 [5 favorites]
I saw this last night and have only spent five waking minutes in a row not thinking about it. So, so good.
My father suffered a traumatic brain injury in October, and when we first see Charles Xavier, when he is so confused and rambling and upset, I was instantly transported back to when my dad was in the post-surgical ICU and was being weaned off the sedatives. And the reaction Logan had was so identifiable. After hours HOURS of pulling someone's hands away from their face and patiently explaining over and over why they can't yank on the tubes and wires, you finally agree with the nurse that maybe restraining their arms is okay for a little while, even though you and your sister swore that you wouldn't let them do that. The frustration, the sadness, the defeat. That's what I saw in Logan's reaction to Charles's incoherence and cursing. He is obviously devoted to this man, who is slowly wasting away and yet is so dangerous. He is driving a limo to afford medication! The love is there, but the treatment of love in the face of affliction was so honest. My affection for these characters overflowed.
To me, this was a profound film about grief and loss and loneliness. It wasn't just an action movie or a superhero movie, though the action was brutal and amazing. (Loved that there was no large-scale CGI destruction--it made every individual head or limb being impaled or severed that much more visceral--and I was grateful for the lack of distracting editing of the fight scenes.) Wolverine losing his healing ability as a metaphor for aging fit right in with these themes, and his final scene brought me to tears.
I can'st say it was a perfect movie, because I hated that the African American family died. The way they were dispatched reduced them to props instead of the characters they had been. That was seriously disappointing. But it is my only gripe.
posted by chaoticgood at 7:24 PM on March 7, 2017 [33 favorites]
My father suffered a traumatic brain injury in October, and when we first see Charles Xavier, when he is so confused and rambling and upset, I was instantly transported back to when my dad was in the post-surgical ICU and was being weaned off the sedatives. And the reaction Logan had was so identifiable. After hours HOURS of pulling someone's hands away from their face and patiently explaining over and over why they can't yank on the tubes and wires, you finally agree with the nurse that maybe restraining their arms is okay for a little while, even though you and your sister swore that you wouldn't let them do that. The frustration, the sadness, the defeat. That's what I saw in Logan's reaction to Charles's incoherence and cursing. He is obviously devoted to this man, who is slowly wasting away and yet is so dangerous. He is driving a limo to afford medication! The love is there, but the treatment of love in the face of affliction was so honest. My affection for these characters overflowed.
To me, this was a profound film about grief and loss and loneliness. It wasn't just an action movie or a superhero movie, though the action was brutal and amazing. (Loved that there was no large-scale CGI destruction--it made every individual head or limb being impaled or severed that much more visceral--and I was grateful for the lack of distracting editing of the fight scenes.) Wolverine losing his healing ability as a metaphor for aging fit right in with these themes, and his final scene brought me to tears.
I can'st say it was a perfect movie, because I hated that the African American family died. The way they were dispatched reduced them to props instead of the characters they had been. That was seriously disappointing. But it is my only gripe.
posted by chaoticgood at 7:24 PM on March 7, 2017 [33 favorites]
but I still had a very strong urge to see, either before or after the credits, after Laura walks away, or maybe a few days later - a single shot of Wolverine's arm thrusting up out of his grave.;)
I cannot imagine anything else that would reduce the elegance and melancholy of the movie so drastically in 30 frames. It would turn this great movie into the fifth Nightmare on Elm Street sequel.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 5:56 PM on March 8, 2017 [13 favorites]
I cannot imagine anything else that would reduce the elegance and melancholy of the movie so drastically in 30 frames. It would turn this great movie into the fifth Nightmare on Elm Street sequel.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 5:56 PM on March 8, 2017 [13 favorites]
Just saw it, liked it a lot. Regarding a Deadpool cameo... he would NOT have fit in, there was barely a light, much less humorous ,mount in the entire movie.
posted by Liquidwolf at 7:42 AM on March 10, 2017
posted by Liquidwolf at 7:42 AM on March 10, 2017
Question: if corn syrup kills mutant genes, where are the hippie / vegan / mormon / LA health freak mutants?
Because I would WATCH that film
posted by litleozy at 7:10 AM on March 11, 2017 [12 favorites]
Because I would WATCH that film
posted by litleozy at 7:10 AM on March 11, 2017 [12 favorites]
where are the hippie / vegan / mormon / LA health freak mutants?
I'm not sure where you get the idea that Mormons eat non-GMO stuff only; AFAIK, their dietary restrictions are limited to prohibitions against alcohol and "hot drinks" (specifically tea and coffee, although they can have caffeinated sodas). As for the others, there are a few possibilities: even so-called organic crops have been stealth-infiltrated by GMOs (I didn't get the impression that the anti-mutant stuff was limited to corn syrup); there are few enough of them that the Reavers can capture and eliminate new mutants as they pop up; or that the general crunchy lifestyle would mitigate against their forming their own X-Men. Like, someone with super-strength would just do a bit of extra work on the community garden, those extra limbs come in handy when you're knitting dread snoods, etc. Or they just all went to Canada.
posted by Halloween Jack at 9:42 AM on March 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
I'm not sure where you get the idea that Mormons eat non-GMO stuff only; AFAIK, their dietary restrictions are limited to prohibitions against alcohol and "hot drinks" (specifically tea and coffee, although they can have caffeinated sodas). As for the others, there are a few possibilities: even so-called organic crops have been stealth-infiltrated by GMOs (I didn't get the impression that the anti-mutant stuff was limited to corn syrup); there are few enough of them that the Reavers can capture and eliminate new mutants as they pop up; or that the general crunchy lifestyle would mitigate against their forming their own X-Men. Like, someone with super-strength would just do a bit of extra work on the community garden, those extra limbs come in handy when you're knitting dread snoods, etc. Or they just all went to Canada.
posted by Halloween Jack at 9:42 AM on March 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
Loved it, favorite X-Men movie, by far the one that best captures the feels and topics of the comic.
X-Men has always been about the marginalized: gay, disabled, black, etc., so I thought it was interesting that here they chose to make it explicitly about latinxs. And that Laura (English pronunciation) became Laura (Spanish pronunciation).
The scene where the reavers arrive at the mexican compound was my favorite: Laura continuing to eat her cereal even though she know the bad guys are coming, the fact that you (the audience) know what's going to happen, the fact that they leave her first encounter with the reavers off camera and just show her calmly walking out holding a head, and then the feral sounds she makes as she chews through the throng of mercs. Perfect.
I really hope they make an X-23 movie and it's half as good as this one.
posted by signal at 12:04 PM on March 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
X-Men has always been about the marginalized: gay, disabled, black, etc., so I thought it was interesting that here they chose to make it explicitly about latinxs. And that Laura (English pronunciation) became Laura (Spanish pronunciation).
The scene where the reavers arrive at the mexican compound was my favorite: Laura continuing to eat her cereal even though she know the bad guys are coming, the fact that you (the audience) know what's going to happen, the fact that they leave her first encounter with the reavers off camera and just show her calmly walking out holding a head, and then the feral sounds she makes as she chews through the throng of mercs. Perfect.
I really hope they make an X-23 movie and it's half as good as this one.
posted by signal at 12:04 PM on March 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
Legion and Logan mark a turning point for superhero cinema: The superhero story — that isn’t
posted by homunculus at 12:18 PM on March 11, 2017
posted by homunculus at 12:18 PM on March 11, 2017
Based in large part on the enthusiasm here and to a lesser extent by the promise of Richard E. Grant (and pushed over the edge by some truly unpleasant weather that made it seem like a good use of my Sunday afternoon) I caught a matinee screening and I guess I'm going to be the dissenting voice.
It got off to a bad start for me, with the reluctant hero being practically forced into massacring the scary brown gang straight from 1980s action-movie casting (they were threatening his car; what else could he possibly do?) and never quite recovered. And then I found the under-motivated and inexplicably ineffective army of black-clad corporate goons who murder their way across the country, lethally dealing with everyone they encounter except for the two invalids and the 11 year old they are chasing, to be just annoyingly lazily-characterized bad guys.
Perhaps the thing that left the worst taste in my mouth, however, was audience reaction to the on-screen brutality, much of which was quite off-putting.
I am not normally such a killjoy and have in the past enjoyed many a movie with gleefully excessive violence, though it's not my favorite thing. But this one left me completely cold for some reason and I can't recommend it at all.
posted by Nerd of the North at 8:52 PM on March 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
It got off to a bad start for me, with the reluctant hero being practically forced into massacring the scary brown gang straight from 1980s action-movie casting (they were threatening his car; what else could he possibly do?) and never quite recovered. And then I found the under-motivated and inexplicably ineffective army of black-clad corporate goons who murder their way across the country, lethally dealing with everyone they encounter except for the two invalids and the 11 year old they are chasing, to be just annoyingly lazily-characterized bad guys.
Perhaps the thing that left the worst taste in my mouth, however, was audience reaction to the on-screen brutality, much of which was quite off-putting.
I am not normally such a killjoy and have in the past enjoyed many a movie with gleefully excessive violence, though it's not my favorite thing. But this one left me completely cold for some reason and I can't recommend it at all.
posted by Nerd of the North at 8:52 PM on March 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
(they were threatening his car; what else could he possibly do?)
I kind of saw that scene a little differently. I think it's supposed to setup that Logan has largely given up to the ideals of the X-Men. He could have punched those guys out or used his claws to destroy their weapons instead of killing them.
And I think it's also supposed to show that in contrast to the first X-Men, where in the bar Wolverine got those folks to back off a little after showing his claws, that in the future people aren't as intimidated by powers anymore.
But I do agree I did kind of thought the ethnic gangsters was kind of meh.
posted by FJT at 10:24 AM on March 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
I kind of saw that scene a little differently. I think it's supposed to setup that Logan has largely given up to the ideals of the X-Men. He could have punched those guys out or used his claws to destroy their weapons instead of killing them.
And I think it's also supposed to show that in contrast to the first X-Men, where in the bar Wolverine got those folks to back off a little after showing his claws, that in the future people aren't as intimidated by powers anymore.
But I do agree I did kind of thought the ethnic gangsters was kind of meh.
posted by FJT at 10:24 AM on March 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
FJT: But I do agree I did kind of thought the ethnic gangsters was kind of meh.
I assumed the gang was Mexican because he was hiding out in Mexico (and commuting to the USA to work nights.) Was that mistaken? I remember the lead henchman tracking him mentioned deaths in a particular place (or was it highway?) which is how he found Logan, but I missed the specifics.
posted by bluecore at 11:02 AM on March 13, 2017
I assumed the gang was Mexican because he was hiding out in Mexico (and commuting to the USA to work nights.) Was that mistaken? I remember the lead henchman tracking him mentioned deaths in a particular place (or was it highway?) which is how he found Logan, but I missed the specifics.
posted by bluecore at 11:02 AM on March 13, 2017
I wanted to like it but I found the whole thing a little ridiculous. Or, I should say:
Laura - Un pequeño ridiculoso
Logan - What? Huh?
Laura - A little ridiculous
(repeat the same language confusion a bunch of times)
ALL of her classmates made it to North Dakota? The whole class escaped? Was Laura the only one they sent goons after?
I felt like young Wolverine only existed to confuse the audience and cheapen Xavier's death scene. Also Logan's decrepitude varied pretty heavily from scene to scene, and he went from near-invalid to able-to-defeat-younger-self whenever they needed him to. Much like comic book powers, I guess.
posted by graventy at 1:23 PM on March 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
Laura - Un pequeño ridiculoso
Logan - What? Huh?
Laura - A little ridiculous
(repeat the same language confusion a bunch of times)
ALL of her classmates made it to North Dakota? The whole class escaped? Was Laura the only one they sent goons after?
I felt like young Wolverine only existed to confuse the audience and cheapen Xavier's death scene. Also Logan's decrepitude varied pretty heavily from scene to scene, and he went from near-invalid to able-to-defeat-younger-self whenever they needed him to. Much like comic book powers, I guess.
posted by graventy at 1:23 PM on March 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
The Movie Hidden in 'Logan' Is A Western Classic
I loved the ambivalent relationship with violent heroism, and how well they illustrated it by inviting comparison to Westerns. Shane was exactly the right choice for that conversation.
I was also heavily reminded of Children of Men; it hit a lot of the same story beats, the same thematic concerns. It also shared a lightness of touch in portraying the sci-fi elements that I thought was really effective.
The previous X-Films' bombastic special effect set pieces are conspicuous in their absence, and instead we get a world of the future that you could pretty much imagine living in without noticing much had changed. Unless you were a mutant. Because all those little things that had presumably improved quality of life (food production, automation, medicine) had been quietly and subtly, maybe even unintentionally in some cases, weaponized against mutants in ways humans would never notice. I didn't notice much of it myself until the very end, and looking back. It got at the core theme of the X-Men - misfits struggling to establish their place in a hostile environment - in a way that felt way more grounded in the real world than the standard killer robots.
posted by Phobos the Space Potato at 6:19 PM on March 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
I loved the ambivalent relationship with violent heroism, and how well they illustrated it by inviting comparison to Westerns. Shane was exactly the right choice for that conversation.
I was also heavily reminded of Children of Men; it hit a lot of the same story beats, the same thematic concerns. It also shared a lightness of touch in portraying the sci-fi elements that I thought was really effective.
The previous X-Films' bombastic special effect set pieces are conspicuous in their absence, and instead we get a world of the future that you could pretty much imagine living in without noticing much had changed. Unless you were a mutant. Because all those little things that had presumably improved quality of life (food production, automation, medicine) had been quietly and subtly, maybe even unintentionally in some cases, weaponized against mutants in ways humans would never notice. I didn't notice much of it myself until the very end, and looking back. It got at the core theme of the X-Men - misfits struggling to establish their place in a hostile environment - in a way that felt way more grounded in the real world than the standard killer robots.
posted by Phobos the Space Potato at 6:19 PM on March 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
Since nobody else has mentioned it, I'll add that besides "Children of Men", another story I felt this borrowed heavily from was "Firestarter."
posted by Nerd of the North at 10:59 PM on March 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Nerd of the North at 10:59 PM on March 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
The previous X-Films' bombastic special effect set pieces are conspicuous in their absence, and instead we get a world of the future that you could pretty much imagine living in without noticing much had changed. Unless you were a mutant.Well, except for the rampaging armies of cyborg paramilitaries.. which I found jarring because while they are certainly dystopian fodder, they seemed like they belonged to a quite different dystopia than the one in which the civilians in the movie were living.
Seriously, they made no sense. Why is it, again, that they can operate with impunity in Mexico and the USA but the kids will be home free if they make it to Canada? What are the security at the Las Vegas casino doing while the cyborg squad occupies the lobby and sends a hit squad in to take out a couple of hotel guests? And have the gamblers on the gaming floor really seen this kind of thing often enough that when a private corporation's army of metal-handed killers marches through the casino it isn't interesting or scary enough to temporarily pause putting bets down on the table? In such a world, how naive does the friendly farm family have to be to invite the man who mind-controlled their panicked horses home for dinner? Pick at any thread and in my opinion it quickly starts to fall apart. I know I'm not being very charitable. But I'm not convinced that this movie deserves it.
posted by Nerd of the North at 1:35 AM on March 14, 2017
Been waiting a few days to digest this movie before posting here, and I still can't come up with a single coherent review or anything, so here are some thoughts piecemeal:
- I'm not usually the type to zone out in a movie, certainly not in the theater, but I feel like I missed something. What was in Laura's green bag that she was protecting it so fiercely? It feels like I missed the reveal of a MacGuffin somewhere. Or was the idea just that she was being portrayed as animalistic, like a dog unwilling to give up a toy during tug-of-war? That seems ... uh ... I'm just hoping that wasn't the point there.
- The action scenes with Laura felt great - there really was a sense of scale and weight of this tiny human jumping around and messing people up. I mean as much as you get a real sense of true movement of mass in a superhero movie where people are flying all over the place.
- I'm so so grateful to have a superhero movie where the climax didn't revolve around the destruction of an entire city or planet or whatever. It felt great to have the action centered on a few people instead of trying to comprehend how everyone was standing around content while tens of thousands of innocent people died.
- [insert a half-dozen little nitpicky gripes here]
but mainly I wanted to say that I just wasn't feeling this movie's overall plot point. I know that it's supposed to be about the journey, not the destination. I get that. But I went in from the beginning knowing that there was a young girl, and she was a Wolverine-alike, and that meant that this must be a movie about Logan's redemption, a transition from Grumpy Gus to World's Best Dad.
and it was, and I guess we got from point A to B, but mainly it felt like a road trip movie with no real development. I felt like they kept Logan pegged at full super-stubborn for way too long and then at the end just flipped him and his motivation like a switch, and it was really unfulfilling to me. His death defending those kids would have meant way more to me if his switch had happened in Act 2 and he'd spent the past hour loving and caring for that girl.
and sure I mean duh he had but he didn't want to admit it, I get that. Gruff old Logan. I'm just saying there was a lot of run time where they could have had him accepting his position and being as sweet and tender as a Wolverine can be, and if that had been in there it would have felt maybe a bit more organic to me, and his death would have been more of a punch in the gut.
posted by komara at 7:37 AM on March 14, 2017
- I'm not usually the type to zone out in a movie, certainly not in the theater, but I feel like I missed something. What was in Laura's green bag that she was protecting it so fiercely? It feels like I missed the reveal of a MacGuffin somewhere. Or was the idea just that she was being portrayed as animalistic, like a dog unwilling to give up a toy during tug-of-war? That seems ... uh ... I'm just hoping that wasn't the point there.
- The action scenes with Laura felt great - there really was a sense of scale and weight of this tiny human jumping around and messing people up. I mean as much as you get a real sense of true movement of mass in a superhero movie where people are flying all over the place.
- I'm so so grateful to have a superhero movie where the climax didn't revolve around the destruction of an entire city or planet or whatever. It felt great to have the action centered on a few people instead of trying to comprehend how everyone was standing around content while tens of thousands of innocent people died.
- [insert a half-dozen little nitpicky gripes here]
but mainly I wanted to say that I just wasn't feeling this movie's overall plot point. I know that it's supposed to be about the journey, not the destination. I get that. But I went in from the beginning knowing that there was a young girl, and she was a Wolverine-alike, and that meant that this must be a movie about Logan's redemption, a transition from Grumpy Gus to World's Best Dad.
and it was, and I guess we got from point A to B, but mainly it felt like a road trip movie with no real development. I felt like they kept Logan pegged at full super-stubborn for way too long and then at the end just flipped him and his motivation like a switch, and it was really unfulfilling to me. His death defending those kids would have meant way more to me if his switch had happened in Act 2 and he'd spent the past hour loving and caring for that girl.
and sure I mean duh he had but he didn't want to admit it, I get that. Gruff old Logan. I'm just saying there was a lot of run time where they could have had him accepting his position and being as sweet and tender as a Wolverine can be, and if that had been in there it would have felt maybe a bit more organic to me, and his death would have been more of a punch in the gut.
posted by komara at 7:37 AM on March 14, 2017
komara: What was in Laura's green bag that she was protecting it so fiercely? It feels like I missed the reveal of a MacGuffin somewhere.
I think it was the X-Men comics which depicted the Eden place.
posted by bluecore at 7:43 AM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
I think it was the X-Men comics which depicted the Eden place.
posted by bluecore at 7:43 AM on March 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
[...] and that meant that this must be a movie about Logan's redemption, a transition from Grumpy Gus to World's Best Dad.
and it was, and I guess we got from point A to B, but mainly it felt like a road trip movie with no real development. I felt like they kept Logan pegged at full super-stubborn for way too long and then at the end just flipped him and his motivation like a switch [...]
I saw Logan's arc as going from "things are bad but I still have responsibilities" to "there is literally nothing left to live for." He most certainly did not get to World's Best Dad, and in fact got even worse as the movie progressed. If anything, Logan's death felt like "finally," as he spent the prior 120 minutes feeling sorry for himself and being an asshole to pretty much everyone, often for no real reason.
I was a lot more affected by the deaths of the innocent family in the middle of the movie, who apparently died so that Logan could feel shitty about yet another thing. Except, of course, he was too busy grieving over Xavier to give them any thought.
Also, it really bothered me that Laura had immutable adamantium fused to her bones before she was fully grown. I don't know why that particular bit bothered me, but I kept thinking "what's going to happen in a year when she's grown a couple inches?"
I would have liked to see more depth for Laura's character.
posted by reventlov at 12:36 AM on March 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
and it was, and I guess we got from point A to B, but mainly it felt like a road trip movie with no real development. I felt like they kept Logan pegged at full super-stubborn for way too long and then at the end just flipped him and his motivation like a switch [...]
I saw Logan's arc as going from "things are bad but I still have responsibilities" to "there is literally nothing left to live for." He most certainly did not get to World's Best Dad, and in fact got even worse as the movie progressed. If anything, Logan's death felt like "finally," as he spent the prior 120 minutes feeling sorry for himself and being an asshole to pretty much everyone, often for no real reason.
I was a lot more affected by the deaths of the innocent family in the middle of the movie, who apparently died so that Logan could feel shitty about yet another thing. Except, of course, he was too busy grieving over Xavier to give them any thought.
Also, it really bothered me that Laura had immutable adamantium fused to her bones before she was fully grown. I don't know why that particular bit bothered me, but I kept thinking "what's going to happen in a year when she's grown a couple inches?"
I would have liked to see more depth for Laura's character.
posted by reventlov at 12:36 AM on March 15, 2017 [6 favorites]
Just saw this last night. I liked it, but didn't think it was amazing. Half expected X-24 to turn on the handlers after seeing cruelty to the kids. Didn't like the Munsons getting killed; it feels like we've seen that so so much already (reminded me of Hanna). It could be I'm just getting "soft" and it was better for the story though I kinda doubt it. Wasn't crazy about Gabriela producing a pretty well-edited short documentary while on the run.
What was in Laura's green bag that she was protecting it so fiercely?
The comics yeah, but also the medical files on all the kids. We see Logan looking though them.
Laura had immutable adamantium fused to her bones
This didn't happen iirc? She had the surgery in a hospital bed, so just the claws/spurs presumably.
posted by ODiV at 8:08 AM on March 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
What was in Laura's green bag that she was protecting it so fiercely?
The comics yeah, but also the medical files on all the kids. We see Logan looking though them.
Laura had immutable adamantium fused to her bones
This didn't happen iirc? She had the surgery in a hospital bed, so just the claws/spurs presumably.
posted by ODiV at 8:08 AM on March 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
Why is it, again, that [the Reavers] can operate with impunity in Mexico and the USA but the kids will be home free if they make it to Canada?
Because Canada is a different country with different laws. There's a lot of historical precedent in having people cross the Canadian border to avoid unfair American laws--the Underground Railroad and Vietnam War-era draft dodgers, in particular--and for all their tough-guy swagger, the Reavers aren't a full-size army.
What are the security at the Las Vegas casino doing while the cyborg squad occupies the lobby and sends a hit squad in to take out a couple of hotel guests?
The Reavers do seem to have some degree of independence of operation in the US(note their interaction with members of the US military later in the movie), so it's likely that the hotel security were told to stay out of their way.
And have the gamblers on the gaming floor really seen this kind of thing often enough that when a private corporation's army of metal-handed killers marches through the casino it isn't interesting or scary enough to temporarily pause putting bets down on the table?
They might assume that they are part of the casino security.
In such a world, how naive does the friendly farm family have to be to invite the man who mind-controlled their panicked horses home for dinner?
I don't recall that it was terribly obvious that Xavier was doing the controlling; all they really knew was that Logan came back to help them out.
posted by Halloween Jack at 10:30 AM on March 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
Because Canada is a different country with different laws. There's a lot of historical precedent in having people cross the Canadian border to avoid unfair American laws--the Underground Railroad and Vietnam War-era draft dodgers, in particular--and for all their tough-guy swagger, the Reavers aren't a full-size army.
What are the security at the Las Vegas casino doing while the cyborg squad occupies the lobby and sends a hit squad in to take out a couple of hotel guests?
The Reavers do seem to have some degree of independence of operation in the US(note their interaction with members of the US military later in the movie), so it's likely that the hotel security were told to stay out of their way.
And have the gamblers on the gaming floor really seen this kind of thing often enough that when a private corporation's army of metal-handed killers marches through the casino it isn't interesting or scary enough to temporarily pause putting bets down on the table?
They might assume that they are part of the casino security.
In such a world, how naive does the friendly farm family have to be to invite the man who mind-controlled their panicked horses home for dinner?
I don't recall that it was terribly obvious that Xavier was doing the controlling; all they really knew was that Logan came back to help them out.
posted by Halloween Jack at 10:30 AM on March 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
This didn't happen iirc? She had the surgery in a hospital bed, so just the claws/spurs presumably.
It was listed in her medical records. One of those things where you had to do some quick reading to catch it. But, yeah, it bothered me also because little kids presumable grow into adults.
Now that I think about it though the adamantium might have just been on her claws because they were shiny metallic and not bone right?
posted by P.o.B. at 11:40 AM on March 15, 2017
It was listed in her medical records. One of those things where you had to do some quick reading to catch it. But, yeah, it bothered me also because little kids presumable grow into adults.
Now that I think about it though the adamantium might have just been on her claws because they were shiny metallic and not bone right?
posted by P.o.B. at 11:40 AM on March 15, 2017
(they were threatening his car; what else could he possibly do?)
Not for nothing, he was pretty nice about asking them to not boost his wheels and in turn they shot him.
I agree shitty stereotypes are shitty. There was a very large and not so subtle part of this movie that is a commentary of our current widening gap between the haves and have nots.
posted by P.o.B. at 11:50 AM on March 15, 2017
Not for nothing, he was pretty nice about asking them to not boost his wheels and in turn they shot him.
I agree shitty stereotypes are shitty. There was a very large and not so subtle part of this movie that is a commentary of our current widening gap between the haves and have nots.
posted by P.o.B. at 11:50 AM on March 15, 2017
Didn't like the Munsons getting killed; it feels like we've seen that so so much alreadyYeah. I didn't feel like opening that can of worms but it's not too long ago that comics fandom had major knock-down, drag-out arguments about Women in Refrigerators and it doesn't seem like a whole lot was learned.
posted by Nerd of the North at 7:08 PM on March 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
I was really taken back and made uncomfortable by the level of violence (but I think that's a good thing).
As they say in the funny pages, he's the best there is at what he does. And what he does ain't pretty, bub.
Being uncomfortable with it should be the default reaction.
posted by radwolf76 at 5:46 PM on March 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
As they say in the funny pages, he's the best there is at what he does. And what he does ain't pretty, bub.
Being uncomfortable with it should be the default reaction.
posted by radwolf76 at 5:46 PM on March 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
This is seriously my favorite X-Men and Marvel film right now. The only thing in that universe that comes close for me might be Jessica Jones. Glad to see Wolverine and the Professor get a proper sendoff; both Jackman and Stewart are so good.
It seems to be set in Trump's future America which is a little scary seeing as they must have written it at least two years ago.
posted by octothorpe at 7:55 PM on March 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
It seems to be set in Trump's future America which is a little scary seeing as they must have written it at least two years ago.
posted by octothorpe at 7:55 PM on March 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
Why is it, again, that they can operate with impunity in Mexico and the USA but the kids will be home free if they make it to Canada?
Have you paid ANY attention at all to politics in the last two months? Given twelve years of rule by the current Junta, I can easily see see black-garbed semi-official agents being used to gun down people in the USA with impunity. As for Canada, it is a different country. And did you at all get the context to people traveling north to Canada to be free?
And have the gamblers on the gaming floor really seen this kind of thing often enough that when a private corporation's army of metal-handed killers marches through the casino it isn't interesting or scary enough to temporarily pause putting bets down on the table?
By 2029, in the real world, the answer will probably be yes. All the black-garbed guys will have to say is "Immigration sweep", and the tourists will ignore them. I mean hell, the gamblers I saw in Las Vegas would probably ignore Godzilla in favor of pulling the lever, taking a drag, taking a drink, repeat.
I guess what bugs me about these sorts of reactions is that nobody anymore is going for the "No Prize." the trick is, instead of pointing at something and going "look a plot flaw!!!", you look at it and say, "the movie is saying this is the situation. How would this make sense?" And honestly, with Wolverine, the justicatons aren't that difficult.
posted by happyroach at 3:40 AM on March 18, 2017 [5 favorites]
Have you paid ANY attention at all to politics in the last two months? Given twelve years of rule by the current Junta, I can easily see see black-garbed semi-official agents being used to gun down people in the USA with impunity. As for Canada, it is a different country. And did you at all get the context to people traveling north to Canada to be free?
And have the gamblers on the gaming floor really seen this kind of thing often enough that when a private corporation's army of metal-handed killers marches through the casino it isn't interesting or scary enough to temporarily pause putting bets down on the table?
By 2029, in the real world, the answer will probably be yes. All the black-garbed guys will have to say is "Immigration sweep", and the tourists will ignore them. I mean hell, the gamblers I saw in Las Vegas would probably ignore Godzilla in favor of pulling the lever, taking a drag, taking a drink, repeat.
I guess what bugs me about these sorts of reactions is that nobody anymore is going for the "No Prize." the trick is, instead of pointing at something and going "look a plot flaw!!!", you look at it and say, "the movie is saying this is the situation. How would this make sense?" And honestly, with Wolverine, the justicatons aren't that difficult.
posted by happyroach at 3:40 AM on March 18, 2017 [5 favorites]
I saw this over the weekend.
I liked it. I got choked up with tears at a couple points. I agree that it's not super tight but it wasn't hard to suspend disbelief for me and let the movie do what it wanted to do. (The only part that really made me sigh was how Xavier and Logan didn't realize how they were putting the farmer family at risk. When they were killed I was already kind of checked out.)
It seemed pretty daring to do a superhero movie like this, and overall I'm impressed. As far as I can remember they didn't fuck it up with ugly-ass color grading, either. I wouldn't quiiite go so far as to call it a "good movie that happened to be a superhero movie" since it still was kind of a little too corny and unsubtle for that, especially in the back half. It was thoughtful and human though. Jackman and Stewart were amazing and really helped the film earn its drama, which is worth a lot.
A couple disconnected thoughts:
- Whoever told Richard E. Grant to mumble out his lines quickly and too-quietly should be fired.
- I don't really know anything about the X-men, and didn't see the previous movie, but in addition to the Rogue stuff, Laura looked a bit like Famke Janssen, and when she started wearing the sunglasses I wondered if that was suggesting Cyclops a little. Not that Laura had anything to do with Psylocke or Cyclops in a wiki entry sense, but I was hoping it was a subtle expression of how children can be unwitting reminders of the vanished world and people they will never know, yet which they have inherited and continue. To be old and almost dead is to see the world that will come after you through like a veil of ghosts.
posted by fleacircus at 1:02 AM on March 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
I liked it. I got choked up with tears at a couple points. I agree that it's not super tight but it wasn't hard to suspend disbelief for me and let the movie do what it wanted to do. (The only part that really made me sigh was how Xavier and Logan didn't realize how they were putting the farmer family at risk. When they were killed I was already kind of checked out.)
It seemed pretty daring to do a superhero movie like this, and overall I'm impressed. As far as I can remember they didn't fuck it up with ugly-ass color grading, either. I wouldn't quiiite go so far as to call it a "good movie that happened to be a superhero movie" since it still was kind of a little too corny and unsubtle for that, especially in the back half. It was thoughtful and human though. Jackman and Stewart were amazing and really helped the film earn its drama, which is worth a lot.
A couple disconnected thoughts:
- Whoever told Richard E. Grant to mumble out his lines quickly and too-quietly should be fired.
- I don't really know anything about the X-men, and didn't see the previous movie, but in addition to the Rogue stuff, Laura looked a bit like Famke Janssen, and when she started wearing the sunglasses I wondered if that was suggesting Cyclops a little. Not that Laura had anything to do with Psylocke or Cyclops in a wiki entry sense, but I was hoping it was a subtle expression of how children can be unwitting reminders of the vanished world and people they will never know, yet which they have inherited and continue. To be old and almost dead is to see the world that will come after you through like a veil of ghosts.
posted by fleacircus at 1:02 AM on March 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
Just got out of watching it. I knew there wasn't any stinger scene but I still sat through the credits just to try to stop sobbing.
I was still in high school when the first X-Men came out. 17 years. I'm so glad Hugh Jackman and Patrick Stewart finished on the high note with this, but god it fucking hurt,
posted by nicebookrack at 7:13 PM on March 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
I was still in high school when the first X-Men came out. 17 years. I'm so glad Hugh Jackman and Patrick Stewart finished on the high note with this, but god it fucking hurt,
posted by nicebookrack at 7:13 PM on March 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
A couple times, during interviews, Patrick Stewart has said that during the first premiere, he and Hugh Jackman were sitting beside each other - and at the end scene, he suddenly felt Hugh Jackman take his hand and hold it. He looked at Hugh and saw he was wiping his eyes - and then Stewart realized he was crying too, and so they watched the very end of the movie holding hands.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:26 PM on March 24, 2017 [27 favorites]
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:26 PM on March 24, 2017 [27 favorites]
- the Canada thing. Presumably there's some ultra powerful mutants who claim Canada as their own? The Eden project?
- how many adamantium bullets are meant to be in circulation? And how explosive was the one Laura fired at the end?!
- this may be a lost cause, but as a Valiant fan, I was a bit overwhelmed by how this was basically Bloodshot / Gen 0 with Wolverine as both Bloodshot and "Other Bloodshot Trying to Stop Bloodshot".
- not saying this wasn't absolutely brilliantly done though!
posted by KMH at 8:58 AM on April 3, 2017
- how many adamantium bullets are meant to be in circulation? And how explosive was the one Laura fired at the end?!
- this may be a lost cause, but as a Valiant fan, I was a bit overwhelmed by how this was basically Bloodshot / Gen 0 with Wolverine as both Bloodshot and "Other Bloodshot Trying to Stop Bloodshot".
- not saying this wasn't absolutely brilliantly done though!
posted by KMH at 8:58 AM on April 3, 2017
- one more lost-cause Valiant thing: I couldn't help thinking of the weapon-X guys all the way through as "Project Rising Spirit" :-s
posted by KMH at 9:26 AM on April 3, 2017
posted by KMH at 9:26 AM on April 3, 2017
That was amazing.
Not perfect, there were a few awkward plot points and clinches. But overall the movie was fantastic and felt like the Empire Strikes Back of American superhero films: a mature expansion of themes and character.
What really did for me was Charles and Logan cursing at each other like old, hated roommates. And the actor playing Caliban was a great addition, giving them both something to bounce, it was a helluva thing to watch.
Story wise, it was great that they didn't spell out what was going on in the wider world. We're never explicitly told what happened to the X-men, but it's clear that Charles accidentally killed several of them, along with a few humans. So keeping Charles doped up served to suppress his powers and make him forget.
Loved the diverse cast also, such a great touch and that made the world seem more realistic.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:18 PM on April 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
Not perfect, there were a few awkward plot points and clinches. But overall the movie was fantastic and felt like the Empire Strikes Back of American superhero films: a mature expansion of themes and character.
What really did for me was Charles and Logan cursing at each other like old, hated roommates. And the actor playing Caliban was a great addition, giving them both something to bounce, it was a helluva thing to watch.
Story wise, it was great that they didn't spell out what was going on in the wider world. We're never explicitly told what happened to the X-men, but it's clear that Charles accidentally killed several of them, along with a few humans. So keeping Charles doped up served to suppress his powers and make him forget.
Loved the diverse cast also, such a great touch and that made the world seem more realistic.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:18 PM on April 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
We finally watched this and I have to join the dissenting votes. I was expecting, I dunno, a cool movie about the real world consequences of being a superhero and instead we got a Disney princess live action. It was much, much cheesier than I expected. And it was depressing. To quote one of my friends "that was like watching the 90s die, if the 90s were a person". We do quite like the idea that after death your kids cover your body in rocks and move to Canada though. Also the attack child was fun.
posted by fshgrl at 12:34 AM on April 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by fshgrl at 12:34 AM on April 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
BUT WHAT A DISNEY PRINCESS!!!!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:08 PM on April 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:08 PM on April 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
"that was like watching the 90s die, if the 90s were a person"
This would be something I'd put the plus column.
posted by fleacircus at 8:38 PM on April 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
This would be something I'd put the plus column.
posted by fleacircus at 8:38 PM on April 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
Late to the bandwagon, but just saw Logan and... the parts with Hugh Jackman and Patrick Stewart interacting were lovely and sad. They could have made the whole movie about that relationship and it would have been better. Throw in a surprise orphan daughter, great.
But it went down hill so fast. Those bad guys were so phoned in and incompetent. And unoriginal. I feel like we've seen them before in like half of the other X Men movies, but they used to be scarier.
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 3:13 PM on May 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
But it went down hill so fast. Those bad guys were so phoned in and incompetent. And unoriginal. I feel like we've seen them before in like half of the other X Men movies, but they used to be scarier.
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 3:13 PM on May 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
Just saw it. The thing I didn't understand was, at the end - why didn't Laura cut off Logan's head and stick it on X-24's unused and not-suffering-35-years-of-accumulated-adamantium-poisoning body? Slice, slice, place head, couple chest compressions...I was honestly waiting for it, and then it didn't happen for no readily answered reason. God knows she's hardcore enough, she's got the adamantium claws and they're the exact same DNA, so it should work...
Other than that, great film and a really nice capstone to the best part of the entire X-Men movie franchise.
posted by Ryvar at 4:51 PM on October 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
Other than that, great film and a really nice capstone to the best part of the entire X-Men movie franchise.
posted by Ryvar at 4:51 PM on October 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
I'm going to go on record as saying I absolutely did not expect that thing you just said.
posted by komara at 6:52 PM on October 30, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by komara at 6:52 PM on October 30, 2017 [10 favorites]
I'm pretty sure that 99.9% percent of filmgoers did not expect that thing that Ryvar just said.
posted by octothorpe at 12:35 PM on October 31, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by octothorpe at 12:35 PM on October 31, 2017 [10 favorites]
Finally watched it this weekend. Nicely done all the way around; adds a depth I didn't know could be there.
posted by ZeusHumms at 8:55 AM on December 11, 2017
posted by ZeusHumms at 8:55 AM on December 11, 2017
I watched this last night and was wondering how healing factor works with decapitations (or… being sliced exactly in half?) but I foolishly missed the logical leap to the thing Ryvar expected
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 9:18 AM on October 24, 2022
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 9:18 AM on October 24, 2022
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I knew what was coming after they showed the clip from Shane, but until the end I was hoping he would lead the children to Canada and start a new school.
And I admit it, I almost lost it when Laura started crying "Daddy".
posted by beowulf573 at 12:56 PM on March 4, 2017 [2 favorites]