The Umbrella Academy: Season One
February 16, 2019 3:50 PM - Season 1 (Full Season) - Subscribe

Based on the comic book by Gerard Way and Gabriel Bá, a dysfunctional family of superheroes reunites after the death of their adoptive father, days before the end of the world. Shenanigans ensue.
posted by axiom (109 comments total) 8 users marked this as a favorite
 
Ten minutes in, I turn to the beau and go “ Wow, Klaus is really giving me a ‘ Nathan from Misfits’ vibe.”He replies “ I was just about to say that!” Turns out, erm, it’s the same dude. We’re one episode in and cleared the calendar for the rest of the weekend. Nicely hitting the spot for angsty reluctant superheroes so far.
posted by jacy at 4:47 PM on February 16 [1 favorite]


Just finished and wow so so good.
posted by one4themoment at 5:01 PM on February 16 [1 favorite]


I'm delighted to see Robert Sheehan essentially get to reprise the role of Nathan, since it was a star-making turn... if only most people had seen it here. Misfits never got the love it deserved in the US.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 8:10 PM on February 16 [5 favorites]


I'm guessing this is a show only thread ?
posted by Pendragon at 4:48 AM on February 17


Interesting to see the reactions here are so positive. I liked the comic but didn't love it, and the first review I read somewhere (Polygon, I think?) was pretty lukewarm. But you all are making me think I should give this a try anyway.
posted by tobascodagama at 6:57 AM on February 17 [1 favorite]


I’ve watched the first two episodes, and I like it so far. I especially enjoy the split between the characters who are just sad to those who are frantically involved in something to ward that sadness off. It seems very… real.
posted by GenjiandProust at 7:46 AM on February 17 [2 favorites]


I had never heard of the comic, but I happened to see this when I opened Netflix yesterday looking for something new. I watched the first episode to see what is was like, and then immediately binged the next four or so. I would’ve watched more except it was 1:30am and I made myself be a grownup and go to bed. I found it had just the right amount of exposition to give me, a complete newb, some context, without feeling forced.
posted by DiscourseMarker at 7:57 AM on February 17 [3 favorites]


First heard of this last night here and was about the time I'd watch something, right off it was just the right level of weirdness, tough and gritty without gratuitous cruelty and lots of hanging threads that look to be tied up in interesting ways. Not a single character seems "likeable" but looks like they will all get enough backstory so the brokeness will be understandable and we'll like or at least appreciate their struggle. And so far it seems smart enough that the twists will be satisfying.
posted by sammyo at 8:07 AM on February 17 [1 favorite]


We're about half way through, plan to watch more today. Like others I didn't get into the Graphic Novels so I don't have much knowledge of the back story. But so far the show is in turns interesting and weird, and I've not had problems believing the character's actions and motivations. I am guessing number 7 will come into her own soon, or at least realize that "perfectly average" is her power.
posted by jazon at 8:39 AM on February 17


I enjoyed it w/o any knowledge of the novels.

One thing that was annoying, the storm trooper academy level of accuracy from supposedly professional assassins. Nobody could hit anything unless they were point blank. It killed the tension in several scenes.

Other than that, I look forward to next season.
posted by KaizenSoze at 9:24 AM on February 17


I really liked the overall vibe of the show -- the art direction and quirkiness of the universe.

But, the more I watched it the more I found it kind of infuriating that the central problem is a woman is going to destroy the world because she's just got too darn many pesky feelings. Especially since the other female lead's super power takes the form of ... gossip. And she ruins her life using it. So, one woman who can't control her emotions and one who talks too much.

There are a lot of women in this movie doing a lot of different things, but the weird, weird shit around emotional availability was just really present. One female character who seems relatively with it gets fridged to give another character an emotional arc. One woman is a robot programmed to do emotional labour and caregiving and another is a literal, actual mannequin.

The man are all emotionally damaged, too, but they channel that emotional damage in various ways. Sometimes productive ways, sometimes damaging ways. But the women do damage with their actual emotions and I found that aggravating.
posted by jacquilynne at 3:03 PM on February 17 [31 favorites]


I just watched the whole lot over the weekend, and while it had its issues, I quite enjoyed it. Moreso than the original comics which had some excessively ridiculous bits.
posted by Marticus at 4:04 PM on February 17


Overall I liked it, though it had some issues as others have pointed out. At one point circa the 8th episode, just as Allison is about to show a picture of her sister to the dude in the hospital, a nurse comes in and shuts it down. I literally said out loud "oh, fuck you, writers" because that shit is super lazy.

A lot of this show had idiot ball problems, where characters don't talk to one another and therefore things go wrong. I mean I know they're dysfunctional but COME ON. Also the moon would take way longer than that to fall to earth. Neal Stephenson wrote a whole novel about it.
posted by axiom at 4:24 PM on February 17 [7 favorites]


It's been a while since I binged a season in a weekend (still haven't made it thru punisher s2). Really found this compelling. Kind of disappointed by the ending though; I was shocked to realize there wasn't one more episode.
posted by sevenyearlurk at 5:22 PM on February 17


Netflix recommended this as something it thought I'd like, and so I watched the trailer. I was really enjoying it until I thought I spied James Franco in there, at which point I was like, ugh, I'm not watching something with JF in it. Luckily I double checked and it was NOT JF but rather Robert Sheehan, which is just another way of saying I loved the trailer and plan to watch this soon. I'm glad the comments in this thread are positive!
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 6:56 PM on February 17 [3 favorites]


Between this and Russian Doll Netflix is killing it in 2019. I'm so glad they stepped away from emulating serial TV to doing more creative driven fare.
posted by fshgrl at 10:20 PM on February 17 [4 favorites]


BEN! <3

I'm hoping there's another season just so we can have more Klaus and Ben shenanigans.
posted by paisley sheep at 2:34 AM on February 18 [5 favorites]


OK I binged the whole season this weekend.Robert Sheehan is a delight as always. The soundtrack is fantastic.

Axiom, I had that same issue. Also how characters like Pogo conveniently vanish (there was no concern for him when Hazel and Cha Cha shoot up the house) and then re-appear about 2 episodes later. Where the hell was he? You would think that kind of thing might attract his attention. And speaking of that, they show various characters meet their end in the apocalypse, but not Mom who I actually cared about.
posted by miss-lapin at 11:15 AM on February 18


I really liked this. I enjoyed the comics but because this seems a show only thread I'm only going to say that this is not a straight adaptation, they left out the more fantastical things from the comics, which is the right call.
posted by Pendragon at 11:36 AM on February 18 [1 favorite]


Loved seeing Scott C. illustrations pop up on my TV when Allison was telling her daughter stories, totally unexpected surprise!
posted by jason_steakums at 11:41 AM on February 18 [4 favorites]


Overall I liked it, though it had some issues as others have pointed out. At one point circa the 8th episode, just as Allison is about to show a picture of her sister to the dude in the hospital, a nurse comes in and shuts it down. I literally said out loud "oh, fuck you, writers" because that shit is super lazy.

There's a lot of "well clearly this" sort of moments all along, I think. I will give that a bit of a pass in a comic adaptation and mostly it hasn't bothered me through the five episodes I have seen so far. Some of them are kind of glaring, some of them blend in well.

Vanya's medication, for example, is pretty painfully telegraphed from the get-go. I think a series that was less feeling its comic origins wouldn't make it so front and center, but all the filming is very comic frame like with static shots and front-and-center stuff. Nothing happens in the background or is left without its lampshade. The kidnapping of Klaus is one of the few things that happens offscreen but it gets a big "well I wouldn't say a total loss" and a dramatic trunk opening.

Slightly less obvious was a moment that was really painful when it happens but didn't tip me in the moment. However in hindsight is was also a big teeing-off - when dad says to Vanya "Because there is not a single thing special about you." It blended in with his neglect but looking at it from the standpoint of the fifth episode, where we get a very explicit conversation with one of the kids saying that they were nothing but an experiment to dad... well it screams she was being handled as a control. Or being controlled.

I'm enjoying it if not loving it and will likely finish the whole thing, which is a big rarity for me in recent years.
posted by phearlez at 12:11 PM on February 18 [3 favorites]


I have to admit one frustration for me was the Vanya storyline. Vanya becomes bent on destruction because she got traumatized and manipulated by those she trusts the most. The thing that bothered me the most is Five saying they had to go back and "fix" Vanya to avert the Apocalypse.

Vanya isn't the one who needs fixing. She responded in a fairly understandable way to decades of abuse and manipulation and isolation. I mean crap who wouldn't want to destroy the world in her shoes? She goes the path of Dark Willow from Buffy the Vampire Slayer. But Willow still had Xander to reach out to her and Vanya doesn't. She's even been betrayed by Pogo and Mom!

But five still says SHE is the one who needs to be fixed instead of their father who is most obviously the root of this whole problem.

Basically I'm kinda sick of storylines that cast victims of abuse as the ones who need to be "fixed" like there is something wrong with them, when it's the abusers who are the ones who are truly "broken."

I do like that we are seeing more mutants now with disabilities and mental illness. And more mutants who fail at "real life" like The Rumor. That their power while admired by the public has huge personal costs.
posted by miss-lapin at 3:04 PM on February 18 [15 favorites]


This was way way more fun than I expected it to be.  Hazel and Cha-Cha were the best!  And by best, I mean the worst.  I'd love to have a show of the two of them murderizing their way through the timeline.  Those two stole every scene they were in, and somehow or another I missed that Mary J. Blige also has an acting career and is capable of playing a stone-cold killer with such fun.   The real jaw-dropping moment for me though was realizing that Hazel-the-introspective-assassin is also serial killer Ed Kemper in Mindhunter. They had fantastic chemistry together on screen.

Holy cow but the idiot ball got passed around constantly though. I had lots of sympathy for Vanya up until she lost her shit when she found out a four-year-old child was manipulated into using her powers against her.  I was like Christ, woman…maybe those meds were for more than just dampening your powers.  I get that shows—and especially comic book adaptations—want dramatic responses from characters, but it always just makes me think, for the love of God people, just shut up and listen to each other for five freakin' minutes without flying off the handle.  It feels very much like the story would have been stronger if The Apocalypse™ weren't due solely to misunderstandings and a crappy Dad figure.
posted by los pantalones del muerte at 6:30 PM on February 18 [8 favorites]


On episode 6 now, and yeah the idiot ball no communication thing is starting to grate. Whole series could have been half as long.
I do love what they do with the musical set pieces. It somehow works well with the comics need for set piece scenes, like how a mood can be conveyed in a few panels- the show uses a song. All the visual effects actually are pretty great.
posted by Wretch729 at 9:51 AM on February 19 [2 favorites]


Big fan of the comics. I really liked how this show didn't try to follow the comics (which are madcap and would have made for a very bizarre and messy show) and how it gave some really satisfying emotional arcs that were just NOT THERE in the books (Klaus, Hazel). That said, it certainly is an issue when only women (and even more than that, only POC women) end up hurt by the ending. WTF is up with that? It's up there with only old black journalists being unable to survive the Netflix Marvel shows.
posted by sleeping bear at 3:31 PM on February 19


Seems like this is all about the backstories. Most of the episodes was wondering if Pogo the Chimp was going to get a good story and then, skewered. That one scene of the dying wife(?) was it on another planet or the far far future? Will Cha Cha get a backstory in season 2? Will we find out about the other 41(?) babies born that day, do they become villains? Was it cgi or will the grips need to rebuild the entire donut shop?
posted by sammyo at 4:47 PM on February 19 [4 favorites]


Well I really liked it. I don't read graphic novels but I thought it was a great, original story (well except for that I guessed the ending would be just like in the that one X-Men movie and then it was) but I loved the idea of a super hero wanting to use their powers for music, I thought that was a beautiful idea. And I've been pissed off about a lot of stuff so I didn't mind the cliche of repressed female rage, I found it cathartic.

I thought the lesson was going to be that they kept losing to Vanya because Luther and the others kept coming at her like just another monster to fight instead of as one of their own. I kept waiting for Luther to figure it out from Allison's faces (but he is too much of their dad), and then I expected Five to say it (well he got halfway there) but then the show ended. Maybe they'll figure it out next time.
posted by bleep at 1:27 AM on February 20 [1 favorite]


Also it was fun realizing that I saw Allison playing Angelica in Hamilton. She was SO good in that.
posted by bleep at 1:28 AM on February 20 [1 favorite]


It feels very much like the story would have been stronger if The Apocalypse™ weren't due solely to misunderstandings and a crappy Dad figure.
I dunno crappy dads and miscommunication seem to be responsible for A LOT. Like EVERYTHING.
posted by bleep at 1:35 AM on February 20 [7 favorites]


Since there are comics readers here, maybe someone can explain to me why nobody seemed to have a cell phone and instead there were working payphones(!?!) everywhere? But it was apparently also 2019?
posted by DiscourseMarker at 3:41 PM on February 20 [4 favorites]


The comic doesn't have enough downtime to rely on holding the idiot ball. As mentioned previously it's much more madcap, and only bears passing resemblance to the show.
posted by Marticus at 5:57 PM on February 20


That one scene of the dying wife(?) was it on another planet or the far far future?

Another planet. They really didn't give "Dad" any real back story in the show for whatever reason, except that scene with the dying woman in Episode 10(?) but you will note that right after that scene he is arriving in America in 1928. The kids weren't born until 1989. So yeah, alien.

Also, the lack of cell phones, etc, etc is because this is an alternate universe Earth (Kennedy wasn't assassinated, since Number 5 was supposed to do the deed but that was when he jumped into the story). Also note that Number 1 was living on the Moon for 4 years. Lots of little things like that are in there to push it into a more ambiguous world for the writers to play in (kinda ilke Watchmen, what with the Nixon still in office, alternate "winning" of the Vietnam War due to Dr. Manhattan, a bunch of other things that were just different enough).
posted by daq at 5:59 PM on February 20 [2 favorites]




i liked the phones, cars, clothes, etcetera. Nicely placed outside of time.

I really liked the little touches - like everyone ending the series wearing bowling alley shoes. And Ben's strange, strange powers. A fun show.
posted by rebent at 6:26 PM on February 22 [1 favorite]


A casting director has to run into a sort of paradox when looking for a "young" Ellen Page.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 6:38 PM on February 22 [10 favorites]


Vanya isn't the one who needs fixing. She responded in a fairly understandable way to decades of abuse and manipulation and isolation. I mean crap who wouldn't want to destroy the world in her shoes?

Lots of people, that's kind of the point of the show.
posted by fshgrl at 10:59 PM on February 22 [5 favorites]


As much as Vanya was a victim of manipulation, please remember that it was done because she used her powers knowingly to kill several nannies to the point a robot mom was created so when Vanya tried twisting her head off she still survived.
posted by 80 Cats in a Dog Suit at 6:38 AM on February 23 [13 favorites]


Damn. I can't believe they went Dark Willow with season one. Who goes Dark Willow in season one?
posted by elr at 9:54 AM on February 23 [4 favorites]


She was 4 when that happened.
posted by bleep at 10:16 AM on February 23 [5 favorites]


Ellen Page plays her brilliantly but Vanya is the school shooter in this story. Bad things happen to all the kids (poor Ben! poor Klaus!) but she's the one who kills the nannies, betrays her family (the book), murders her boyfriend because he lied to her and tries to kill her family. She's the one who wants to be special, maybe even a god and wants people to worship her and we know how that story always ends.

I hope her redepemtion arc involves owning up to the bad things she's done and wished on others and how she's let envy destroy her and not just her family like hugging her or whatever. In real life someone with an ego like her and crippling insecurity like hers- that would only make them worse. They've played all the characters so brilliantly this far that I hope they come through on her.

And can I mention how much I love Allison? I do, I love her. She's the counterpoint to all the others- she never stops trying and always thinks things can turn out alright and love can fix it all. She's determined to be happy. I wonder if losing her voice will finally let her be happy as she can't "cheat" anymore. And I admire her commitment to croptops, given her lifestyle.
posted by fshgrl at 11:56 AM on February 23 [9 favorites]


It definitely benefits from the binge model where if you don't think about anything too much it's generally ok and in a way the very predictable things and tropes make the unexpected things more delightful, but when you do start to pick it apart a little, some big chunks will fall off into your hands.
The music really stood out to me because we're all so aware of how much it costs nowadays that I kept being pulled out by the the idea they were spending so much just on music-- it can't be to any benefit to suddenly be wondering if they have a deal with x co. to get to use y music--

Overall, I have questions but still liked it although I wish it was, just, better.
Was Dad such a shitty dad because he was an alien? Is there Pogo back story? There's so many things they could fix and improve but I'm surprised it hasn't already been given a season two if there's going to be one. I looked great and the actors did amazing with what they were given, so not already being given the go ahead is... suspicious.
posted by provoliminal at 5:05 PM on February 23 [2 favorites]


I don't know I think that those things that people say could be improved *are* the story. It's ok to not like the story but it's weird to me to say the story isn't there or doesn't make sense? They explained that the dad had no business raising human children via his actions, and then went on to explain why he had no idea what he was doing. And they show all the deep and lasting consequences of doing a bad job in raising a bunch of kids. Which rings true because a LOT of people have kids who have no idea what they're doing and do a terrible job and the consequences can have ripple effects for generations. Is it that comic books generally spell this stuff out more?
posted by bleep at 5:16 PM on February 23 [5 favorites]


Is that a direct response to me? Because if in the comics it says "Dad is shitty dad just because he's an alien," well, that's as limiting as leaving anything else just a trope by never fleshing out what is a more complex and interesting character/story.
As I haven't read the comic or outlined any other thing I have issues with, in general I find when something jumps medium, it does better to be it's own thing than rely on the other. I mean, I'm ok with that being the whole of his crappy dadness, but it could in my mind be an interesting thing if there's more to it. He apparently loved another being at least once.
posted by provoliminal at 5:33 PM on February 23 [1 favorite]


That's the 2nd Laurie Anderson ending I've seen in as many months.

Come on, white tux, white violin... get it? (The first was the Black Mirror Bandersnatch Laurie Anderson ending.)
posted by Catblack at 6:41 AM on February 24


Random background easter egg note: the church where Vanya is performing is St. Pluvium, which is not a real saint, but basically "Saint Rainy".
posted by Maecenas at 8:58 AM on February 24 [4 favorites]


I enjoyed the series, but had a few problems with it.
  • Their time travel model was very bad.1
  • I felt that almost all of the beats of Vanya's story were telegraphed way too much.
  • I hated that the two "good guys" Vanya actually killed were the two non-human characters. This was clearly a ploy to keep us somewhat sympathetic to her, because those lives were apparently regarded as less valuable. I can't stand it when non-human intelligences are treated as less than human.
  • Did I mention that their model of time travel was very bad?
1 Not there are very many good models of time travel out there.
posted by Tabitha Someday at 12:58 PM on February 24 [2 favorites]


Random background easter egg note:

One of the fake magazines of a newsstand was Whippet Snippets, with a picture of whippet on the front.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 2:37 PM on February 24 [5 favorites]


And speaking of that, they show various characters meet their end in the apocalypse, but not Mom who I actually cared about.

Mom died a day earlier when Vanya trashed the academy.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 4:08 PM on February 24 [4 favorites]


(Kennedy wasn't assassinated, since Number 5 was supposed to do the deed but that was when he jumped into the story).

Kennedy was assassinated. We hear the radio announcer say so ("shots came from a grassy knoll" "the President is dead") in Episode 5 when we revisit Number 5's arrival at the mansion's courtyard during the funeral.
posted by cooker girl at 6:02 PM on February 24 [1 favorite]


In the comics he wasn't, according to wikipedia, so perhaps daq is conflating the two.
posted by axiom at 6:27 PM on February 24


S2E01 opening. The Handler has pulled Hazel and Cha Cha out of the Moon crash timeline.

The Handler: You've met with a terrible fate, haven't you?
posted by rhamphorhynchus at 6:48 PM on February 24 [4 favorites]


So......... one of my friends pointed out that the woman on the bus that Klaus winks at (after he escapes Hazel and Cha Cha and a second before he time travels where her hat flies off) is ALSO at the bank, the rave AND the bowling alley. ????

Now I can't wait for season 2. I wonder if they'll all be teenagers again? I really like all these actors, I'll miss them if they are gone.
posted by fshgrl at 7:27 PM on February 24 [8 favorites]


fshgrl- I actually noticed that and wondered if she was some sort of agent. When 5 is getting the tour, the handler mentions getting intel about time changes from agents in the field. It reminded me a bit of the Ministry of Time (Spanish tv show) where they do something similar in order to keep history from changing.
posted by miss-lapin at 11:24 PM on February 24


One more Easter egg. When Vanya first goes to the Academy after hearing of her father's death, she pulls out her biography. On the back is a blurb about the book attributed to Gerard Way, the actual author of her life.
posted by 80 Cats in a Dog Suit at 8:52 AM on February 25 [3 favorites]


heh, I noticed that too! It as pretty soon after the opening credits showed that the original comics were created by Gerard Way and Gabriel Bá
posted by numaner at 11:21 AM on February 25


I found the show entertaining overall and the characters kept me coming back. I think Vanya is supposed to be sympathized through Allison and the more forgiving family members, yet seen as villainous through her actions. I certainly chalked her up as crossing the line when she killed Pogo, which is also what Luther thought. There's fundamental issues with them wanting to "fix" her rather than trying to just talk to her, but perhaps that's what Five meant, we don't know yet. The way that Reginald handled it was certainly terrible and led to the apocalypse, so maybe the siblings would realize you can't just contain her. And that little blurb showing Reginald as coming from another planet felt incomplete, that simply because he was an alien meant he was eccentric and an asshole? He was capable of love and being loved at one point, so that didn't explain why he treated the kids like that.

I was also disappointed like others about how women were treated in general. But there's always redemption possible in the coming season. I wish Patch could've survived, though, but I guess you can't have more than two major black female characters in an ensemble cast.

I was more disappointed that the only Asian guy in the show was already dead when the story starts, but at least you get to see him do his ghostly stuff later. And the only other named Asian character was a "bitchy" woman who ends up getting killed. These things are starting to jump out more at me now that it's more apparent what a lack of representation in Hollywood can lead to. Inclusion is not just having putting diverse people into a show, it's also letting those people be front and center.
posted by numaner at 11:36 AM on February 25 [7 favorites]


This was extremely watchable, though I share many of the complaints voiced here.

It's funny to hear that it diverges from the comics a lot, because it felt like a faithful adaptation of...something, and I excused many of its flaws as artifacts of its originating medium.

The JJ Abrams-level space physics really took me out of it at the end. I can put up with a lot of comic booky nonsense but please don't pretend like the moon is floating about a mile and a half above the atmosphere. I can't recall when exactly I knew that the violin recital would be the trigger for the apocalypse, but it was well before the reveal of Vanya's powers. The straightforward telegraphing was a bit much at times.

While I enjoyed Hazel and Cha-Cha and the gratuitous use of pneumatic tubes, the, uh, time people organization, whatever they're called, was my least favorite part. The retro aesthetic feels like a cliché at this point, and they didn't really do anything with the timeline manipulation stuff beyond marshaling it into dutiful service of the main plot.

I wanted more shenanigans with the Umbrella Academy as kids, so I guess I'm looking forward to season two, cheap cliffhangers notwithstanding.
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:26 AM on February 26


I can't recall when exactly I knew that the violin recital would be the trigger for the apocalypse, but it was well before the reveal of Vanya's powers.

The show definitely didn't manage to avoid obvious cliches. As soon as Vanya was introduced as having no powers, I was like "Well, she's going to be crazy powerful and either she's going to save the day or destroy the world." It didn't take long to narrow it down from there.

I didn't find that super bothersome, because playing with tropes is fine, as long as the journey is interesting, but I did sometimes feel like the creators thought they were carefully burying clues that people would have to rewatch the show to catch, when they were basically hanging lampshades on them.
posted by jacquilynne at 11:34 AM on February 26 [8 favorites]


It's impressive how menacing Ellen Page can be. The contacts and makeup help, but they aren't doing all the work.
posted by figurant at 10:29 PM on February 26 [3 favorites]


It's impressive how menacing Ellen Page can be.

If you thought that was impressive, watch her in Hard Candy.
posted by miss-lapin at 1:01 AM on February 27 [3 favorites]


We're only watching one episode per night in order to stretch it out a bit and last night we watched episode 9 and I am SO MAD at how Luther treated Vanya OMG. She needed help, not prison! You idiot, HELP HER LEARN how to control her powers, don't freaking MAKE HER WORSE!!!!

Also: Renewed for a second season.
posted by cooker girl at 6:21 AM on February 27 [7 favorites]


Yeah it seemed to me that nearly every decision Luther makes is terrible, except maybe in the timeline that got erased where he made up with Alison.
posted by Wretch729 at 2:03 PM on February 27 [7 favorites]


Well yeah, Luther is the one most loyal to their dad so he reacts as their dad did. I have to say the actor is excellent because it would be very easy to make Luther too uptight and annoying he makes him just the right amount of uptight and annoying

And in fairness Vanya killed a bunch of people and was super unstable so locking her up briefly wasn't the worst plan. If she couldn't handle being locked up for a half hour without destroying the world, I'm not sure much there were any good options.
posted by fshgrl at 4:47 PM on February 27 [3 favorites]


It's unclear if Vanya's "unstableness" is because of something inherent OR because she was adopted by an abusive parent and was completely emotionally unsupported except by one person who was as just as manipulative as her father. Even Allison wasn't all that great at supporting her (inviting her to a family meeting and then sending her away).

Basically Vanya might be emotionally stable IF she hadn't been in an awful environment. The same environment that fostered Klaus's addiction, Ben's death, Luther's isolation, etc etc.
posted by miss-lapin at 10:27 PM on February 27 [8 favorites]


I'm perfectly comfortable writing Luther a pass for saying the emotionally distraught psychic murderer who almost committed fratricide and left said sister to bleed out alone on a floor... maybe needs a little timeout. There was a lot of overly telegraphed stuff here but really, the bad human choices? Those might have been the best part of this series. Because they make shitty choices, but they all seem like such likely shitty choices. It may be idiot ball plotting but I never doubted these characters were comfortable carrying that ball around.

I'm curious to see what they do with the power levels of folks here in the next season. Vanya eventually made permanent changes to physical structure - her suit and violin are pure white even after she passes out. Klaus' new ability to give the dead physical form. We never really get a spoonfeeding about what Diego's ability is beyond "good at throwing sharp objects," though as a comics nerd I just assume he's a lower powered Midnighter. Luther is... strong? Alison is mind-control of some sort.

Also, I gotta say - as a parent, if I could harmlessly get the kiddo to bed with a "rumor" I sure as shit would do it and I know my wife would support me in it. If dad was that upset it's because that lazy fuck never handles bedtime. (Yes I know, she said in an earlier episode she was leaning on it hard and that's obviously bad from a "raise a non horrible human" standpoint, but the level of anger/fear with her and hubby seemed extreme.)
posted by phearlez at 7:40 AM on February 28 [2 favorites]


Thought it was pretty frustrating. I’m entirely on team Vanya here - Luther was a fucking asshole. She needed help, and he continued the cycle of abuse. He’s the one, more than any else, that’s responsible for the the Armageddon. Even when Allison shows up to the concert - the one thing Vanya asked for - Luther then ruins that too. Dude just basically ruins everything all the time. He sucked, tremendously so.
posted by weed donkey at 9:16 AM on February 28 [5 favorites]


I don't think putting Vanya in time out was necessary the worst choice ever, but putting her in time out with no explanation or follow-up was not particularly well done.

(Yes I know, she said in an earlier episode she was leaning on it hard and that's obviously bad from a "raise a non horrible human" standpoint, but the level of anger/fear with her and hubby seemed extreme.)

I got the impression that they'd gone some several rounds of disagreement on this front already, so he might have been angry as much by her not keeping her commitments to parent without using her power as anything else. Also, she apparently used her power to get him to love her, so he is not just reacting to her using it on harmless things like bedtime.
posted by jacquilynne at 9:29 AM on February 28 [8 favorites]


Remember she mind controlled her husband into loving her too. He probably figured that out at some point or suspected so watching her so it to their child was a deal breaker. I mean if your spouse can control your mind but promises not to but lies about it? Yikes. I'm kinda team Allison's husband on this one, even though I am generally team Allison. She has no problem lying to people fluently and well at any point. That's why I liked this show. The people were all believably people.

I think Diego can bend space, he just doesn't know it yet.
posted by fshgrl at 11:39 AM on February 28 [6 favorites]


Going back to these comments....

S2E01 opening. The Handler has pulled Hazel and Cha Cha out of the Moon crash timeline.

The Handler: You've met with a terrible fate, haven't you?


It went by quick but I thought the last we saw of Hazel he was using the briefcase to take him and the Birdwoman of Donutland to safety. It was subtle but they went out of their way to show us that the Handler had hidden her briefcase in the air return. So he doesn't need any rescuing, I think.

Now I can't wait for season 2. I wonder if they'll all be teenagers again? I really like all these actors, I'll miss them if they are gone.

All things are possible on pay service shows but that's why I assume it won't stick. They've spent a season getting us attached to those adult actors, resetting them to kid actors undoes that and potentially turns off some folks who don't want to watch young 'uns.
posted by phearlez at 5:54 AM on March 1 [1 favorite]


It went by quick but I thought the last we saw of Hazel he was using the briefcase to take him and the Birdwoman of Donutland to safety. It was subtle but they went out of their way to show us that the Handler had hidden her briefcase in the air return. So he doesn't need any rescuing, I think.

I thought the last sight of Hazel was him and Agnes kissing as the wall of fire sweeps over the planet and engulfs them, they seemed pretty definitively killed to me. The deaths would be moot for S2 since Number 5 has hit the big giant reset button for the world, but since Hazel wouldn't have met Agnes if he and Cha-Cha hadn't been trying to track down Number 5, it seems like the odds are against their love story repeating in the next timeline.
posted by oh yeah! at 5:57 AM on March 2 [2 favorites]


He had the briefcase, though.

In any case, I came here to say: Agnes is clearly God, here to set things right.

Don't like that theory? Okay, here's another: the Time Bureau/Commission/Whatever was founded and is run by superintelligent cockroaches a million years in the future. That's how the Handler survived the grenade, she's actually a cockroach. The One True Future requires an apocalypse now, so cockroaches will have time to evolve into their future superintelligent selves.
posted by Mogur at 9:32 AM on March 2 [2 favorites]


The Klaus and Ben characters are the most imaginative people I've seen in fantasy fiction in quite a while. And it's written so well that the audience is convinced Klaus is useless, when in fact he and Ben together are insanely powerful (if anyone was searching for a path to immortality, here it is). The way Ben is actually shown as a physical part of the group during pivital scenes is just really good filmmaking. I'm convinced Five looked directly at him when they reverted to their teenage bodies in the last scene. The way Klaus' ability gets stronger and stronger makes me want to believe that Ben can come back to the living in a more permanent fashion (and go to the movies or to the beach). It makes me a bit weepy thinking about Ben, being so close to his family yet never able to touch them. Forcing Klaus to read a book so that he can actually read it over his shoulder. Basically everything the living take for granted.
posted by Brocktoon at 3:07 AM on March 3 [5 favorites]


Also, God is a character in this series, but it's not Agnes. Klaus meets her.
posted by Brocktoon at 3:09 AM on March 3 [1 favorite]


Hazel and Agnes definitely escape the apocalypse with the briefcase. I just watched the scene again to be sure and the blue light that signifies the time travel wraps them up before the flames get them.
posted by cooker girl at 7:50 AM on March 3 [5 favorites]


I saw this less as being about two women who have two many feelings but about how the ways men discount and mistreat women, who think they know everything and can functionally control everyone, bring on the apocalypse. If the men had listened to Allison at the theater and they'd just gone in and listened to Vanya play and been supportive and clapped, maybe she wouldn't have blown the moon up. Treating her like a dangerous enemy made her one, and made clear that however much he's trying to process and get past it, Luther is still who daddy trained him to be.

My biggest problem was the writing around Leonard, who is way too high functioning to have spent the last 12 years in prison. There's no way he'd ever had a romantic or sexual relationship with a woman, I have no idea how he has a house or a job, or is able to drive a car.

I also had trouble with Vanya finding that Leonard had the book, and then apparently forgetting about it for a few days, and then finding it again like she hadn't seen it before.

All of that said, I loved this. I loved all the development on the characters and the different ways they'd tried to handle an extremely messed up childhood. I loved that the solid relationship was Klaus and a guy he met by literally falling into the Vietnam War, I thought that was very sweet. I loved how much Hazel and Cha-Cha were used as a commentary on capitalism and employers being out of touch with the realities of being in the field. I loved Five, and really thought Aidan Gallagher blew that out of the water - he was very convincing as a 58 year old stuck in a kid's body. I found it hilarious when I realized that the reason we never see him and Vanya standing next to each other is that Ellen Page is shorter than Aidan Gallagher, and they're trying so hard to make him look smaller.
posted by bile and syntax at 10:06 AM on March 3 [5 favorites]


I also had trouble with Vanya finding that Leonard had the book, and then apparently forgetting about it for a few days, and then finding it again like she hadn't seen it before.

Number 5 caused a time rewind in which that timeline was erased. So, in effect, she hadn't seen it before.
posted by cooker girl at 12:31 PM on March 3 [7 favorites]


After the ninth time Netflix pushed the trailer on me I broke down. Very mixed feelings: lot of fun, but kind of frustrating. They were introducing tropes that were so conventional that I assumed a 2019 show on Netflix was going to be designed to subvert those expectations... but that wasn't really the case at all. Just too many scenes that make you say "oh, come on you can do better than that".

But... that dance scene in episode 1 was really great, and Klaus and Ben really made the show for me--they've got great potential for development in season 2. Luther and Diego's storylines were just a boring bland mess--it's tough to be tough, I get it.

I was also really annoyed by the Pogo character, he really had nothing to do in the narrative, except to not share pertinent information with the rest of the group. I guess he'll get more backstory in season 2, but I really don't think this show would be well served by more backwards looking revelations.
posted by skewed at 1:32 PM on March 3


The narrative tells the "present day" story by referencing the past, often. It would change the entire tone of the show to stop doing that.
posted by Brocktoon at 2:33 PM on March 3


Also it was fun realizing that I saw Allison playing Angelica in Hamilton. She was SO good in that.

OMG, me too! I was wracking my brain trying to figure out why she was so familiar.
posted by Stewriffic at 2:38 PM on March 3


I saw her in the chorus on Broadway before she started playing Angelica! I also had the hardest time placing Luther until I looked him up and realized he played Dickon Tarly on Game of Thrones - a pretty small role but significant, and actually very similar to Luther (favorite sons of asshole fathers).

I really enjoyed the first two-thirds or so of this season.

Looooooooove Klaus - he seemed like he’d just be campy comic relief, but he wound up having one of the most interesting and touching character arcs. The whole thing with him going to Vietnam and falling in love could have been cheesy, but the actor sold it.

I also really enjoyed all the stylistic stuff, from the set design to the musical numbers. The dancing scene in the first episode was a great way to tell us about all the kids.

Vanya’s character felt undercooked to me, especially given how important she is, but it’s a testament to how great Ellen Page is that I didn’t realize this until after she discovered her powers.

And it was in the last episode or so that things really started falling apart for me. I didn’t buy Vanya’s transformation - this was the woman who was wracked with guilt about what she did to the guys who attacked her, and who was undone by the thought of having killed Alison. I believe she would have this powerful rage, but, I don’t know, it feels like they skipped some steps. The end just got very superhero-hokey for me, in a way the rest of the season hadn’t been.

Two things:

- Why did Five think the eyeball had anything to do with the apocalypse? He just saw someone holding it, right? That seemed like a big leap but did I miss something?

- I wonder why these existential bureaucracies always seem to have a Mad Men aesthetic? There’s the commission here, the Bad Place in The Good Place, and I know there are others I’m forgetting.
posted by lunasol at 4:07 PM on March 3 [5 favorites]


He saw dead Luther holding it. It also belonged to Harold/Leonard, but Five didn't know that, so lucky guess? The first time around it appears that Harold is able to witness his revenge in person.

The Commision headquarters is currently based in the 1950's.
posted by Brocktoon at 6:10 PM on March 3 [3 favorites]


Also I agree about Vanya. I tried to sympathize with her, but when she is with Leonard, all she talks about is herself. That always bugged me. I think the tipping point with her is when she discovers the family having a meeting without her.
posted by Brocktoon at 6:12 PM on March 3 [1 favorite]


The Commision headquarters is currently based in the 1950's.

Yeah, I was just more noting how interesting it is that so many shows/movies make that same choice.
posted by lunasol at 6:57 PM on March 3 [2 favorites]


I think the tipping point with her is when she discovers the family having a meeting without her.

It's Leonard that Allison refers to as not being part of the family and wants to leave the meeting, Vanya totally misreads that situation and jumps to the wrong conclusion. That's kind of her personality flaw, they all have one that they keep repeating over and over. Klaus is secretive, Allison prevaricates, Vanya assumes the worst in others, Luther is paranoid etc

I ended up watching most of this again with a friend and it's worth a second watch. so much comes into focus: why Cha Cha is so bent on murdering Agnes, that if number 5 hadn't reset the one day the apocalypse might not have even happened, that Vanya gives off power waves when she's happy as well as sad, the gold seed things that their Dad puts in a jar and brings to earth, that the mysterious hat woman also shows up disguised as a man at times.
posted by fshgrl at 7:29 PM on March 3 [1 favorite]


the gold seed things that their Dad puts in a jar and brings to earth

What were those? My only guess was that they would end up being the 40 births from 1989, though I thought it was suggested that Hargreeve didn't know anything about those.
posted by skewed at 8:12 PM on March 3 [2 favorites]


cooker girl, thanks! I knew I wasn't remembering something right.
posted by bile and syntax at 4:37 AM on March 4 [1 favorite]


Yeah, I was just more noting how interesting it is that so many shows/movies make that same choice.

The 1950s were an excellent decade for office fashion. Distinctive, not too old-timey, sexy AF.
posted by jacquilynne at 6:43 AM on March 4 [2 favorites]


The 1950s were also the era of paranoid McCarthyism - the undercurrent of fear that adds to the Commission HQ must have been deliberate.
posted by Mogur at 7:34 AM on March 4 [3 favorites]


My teenage son (who has read the comic) and I enjoyed this together.

I felt they did a good job of making most of the annoyingly abrasive characters (like Klaus) sympathetic as the show went on, and some of the more neutral characters (like Luther) unlikable as the show went on.

I hated Pogo, who was complicit in all of the damage done to the children and Chacha, who was given no quarter to being a sadistic monster.

I was going to complain about the soundtrack too. the song choices were okay, but they all seemed to be lame cover versions. but then in reading in this thread about the choices made to create an alternate earth, I am now wondering if the choice to make recognizable songs, but lame versions of them, was somehow a part of that aesthetic, not just a cheap budget choice.

i will definitely look forward to season 2.
posted by OHenryPacey at 10:03 AM on March 4


Hazel and Agnes definitely escape the apocalypse with the briefcase. I just watched the scene again to be sure and the blue light that signifies the time travel wraps them up before the flames get them.

I fired it up and capped a small segment. Not only do they get the blue warp but they're clearly gone when the wave passes.
posted by phearlez at 10:23 AM on March 4 [5 favorites]


Hazel and Agnes definitely escape the apocalypse with the briefcase.
Aye, I was just shoehorning a dumb Majora's Mask joke into the thread...
posted by rhamphorhynchus at 5:09 AM on March 5


I felt they did a good job of making most of the annoyingly abrasive characters (like Klaus) sympathetic as the show went on, and some of the more neutral characters (like Luther) unlikable as the show went on.

I felt basically the opposite about these two, though to be fair I am queer and easily excited for queer content because there is so little of it in general. I loved Klaus immediately and found Luther aggravating and dull. Both got much better as the series went on, and it made a lot of difference for me that we got to see how badly dad had used Luther and how emotionally stunted he was as a result.
posted by bile and syntax at 5:45 AM on March 5 [5 favorites]


I felt basically the opposite about these two, though to be fair I am queer and easily excited for queer content because there is so little of it in general. I loved Klaus immediately and found Luther aggravating and dull. Both got much better as the series went on, and it made a lot of difference for me that we got to see how badly dad had used Luther and how emotionally stunted he was as a result.

I may have phrased this in a way that clouded my intentions. I really like stories about groups who value the attributes of individual members, and use those attributes to solve problems or win fights. I hated Marvel's The Defenders because it was the opposite of this. everytime they were faced with a foe, they lined up with fists raised and ran straight into the fray without any thought of how to maximize their strengths.

so in the beginning, when Luther seemed all about "lets work together" I saw him as a leader (as we were supposed to I guess) and Klaus, for reasons that became clear, seemed to be the first of many abdications toward individual goals.

what I enjoyed about Klaus' arc was that he became convinced, almost more than anyone, that making a coalition was the best way to solve the problem.

Luther otoh regressed, also for reasons, but his failure to listen to his siblings when Vanya was locked in the quiet room, bothered me the most.
posted by OHenryPacey at 8:54 AM on March 5 [6 favorites]


It's hard for me to pass judgement on Luther because he trusted his father and was betrayed by him most severely. Reginald failed Vanya and basically dumped it in Luther's lap, and for some reason Pogo thought it was OK to keep the secret. I think his reaction was reasonable considering Allison by all rights should have died. Luther shines brightest when he employs his "I could do this all day" technique of conflict resolution. He might also be afraid to assume an all-out authoritarian leadership role for risk of driving his siblings away again.
posted by Brocktoon at 9:14 AM on March 5


My take at this point is that the villain is Reginald Hargreeves, who set the whole thing up and who I'm guessing did something similar on the planet that we see starting to go up in flames during his flashback about the violin.
posted by bile and syntax at 11:00 AM on March 5 [3 favorites]


Are we sure it's a different planet, and not (say) Earth in the Year One Million AD? Old Man seemed really clear about the dangers of time travel when he was lecturing Five in those flashbacks.
posted by Mogur at 11:41 AM on March 5 [2 favorites]


I have no clue and am speculating wildly.
posted by bile and syntax at 12:03 PM on March 5 [1 favorite]


A family of gifted children grow up in the shadow of an eccentric, narcissistic father. The emotional damage they incur leads them each to fall short of their potential. As adults, they drift apart and lead separate, lonely lives. A tragic event forces the siblings to return to the family home and confront their past. Two of the siblings are secretly in love, but it’s okay because they aren’t related. They reconcile inside the tent they played in as children.

I liked this series better when it was called The Royal Tenenbaums.

The real jaw-dropping moment for me though was realizing that Hazel-the-introspective-assassin is also serial killer Ed Kemper in Mindhunter.

Hazel’s very distinctive voice kept weirding me out until I made that connection.

Since there are comics readers here, maybe someone can explain to me why nobody seemed to have a cell phone and instead there were working payphones(!?!) everywhere?

Nerdwriter did a segment on this. Basically it boils down to: everyone secretly longs to escape the prison of their smartphone, therefore escapist movies must depict a world in which smartphones either don’t exist or aren’t central to everyone’s lives.
posted by dephlogisticated at 7:16 AM on March 6 [6 favorites]


I did some youtubing of background on the characters and while I won't go into spoilery stuff, I will note that all of the characters are very white. Luther, Diego and Ben are all blonds, and Allison is clearly a white girl with purple hair. Even as the show kills the only Asian team member offscreen, it still manages to have more representation than the source material.

I did wonder why, when putting Vanya in the quiet chamber (which I can see the reasoning behind) someone didn't at least press up a note to the door letting her know it wasn't a permanent jail. "Your powers went out of control - we're going off to find a better solution," might still not have worked but it would have been better than leaving her clearly under the impression she'd just been dropped in an oubliette.

I don't think the chronic absence of cell phones in this sort of story is an escapist thing. It's that cell phones make plot points that hinge on lack of communication harder to pull off. (For fun, watch any action show from the 80's and count how many plots would be solved in the first act if everyone had a mobile phone.) You can only have so many "I forgot to charge my phone" or accidental smashing, and areas with no signal are getting rarer and rarer.
posted by Karmakaze at 1:38 PM on March 6 [6 favorites]


Nice parallel with the Royal Tenenbaums, I wish I was the one who came up with the idea of remaking it as a serialized superhero story.

The cell phone thing jumped out at me as well, but also just the general lack of technology--nobody has a computer, they search for things at the library on microfiche, even the time travel stuff is all analog. I think this fits with the quasi-steampunk aesthetic, and it's probably a very freeing as a writer to be able to more plausibly put characters in difficult situations. But it also easily becomes a crutch for plot developments hinging upon characters making unreasonable decisions not to communicate with each other. This is such a common genre trope (the non-communication thing, not the no-cell phone thing), but I still find it annoying when it pops up.
posted by skewed at 2:04 PM on March 6 [1 favorite]


Just finished it. Really enjoyed it, with the same caveats as most people. I kind of hope they never explain what happened to Ben.

The idiot ball stuff really rankled. Why is Allison all secretive with Vanya? Why not lead with "He hired those thugs."? Why not "Just one question, please. Is this the girlfriend?"

If your plan is truly to kill/incapacitate Vanya at the concert, why the bum rush? Why not take her out with a rifle [standard or tranquilizer] from the shadows? Why does #5 not blip in and snatch the violin or at least disrupt her to let the bum rush succeed?

And, my wife's low-key fear of hospital "security" comes into play again, as a random dude can come retrieve another random dude from X-ray without encountering resistance or leaving a trail.
posted by chazlarson at 7:50 AM on March 9 [2 favorites]


I thought it was just okay.

It didn't grapple with the em>essential terribleness of raising a bunch of children to fight crime, rather than the sort of contingent terribleness of the specific way they were raised. Which I guess it didn't have to- and I suppose none of the characters were really equipped to recognize it- but still.

What was Luther's power, anyway? Before the Super Chimp Serum, I mean.

I was confused why the Time Cops had a very limited idea of Five's powers, given that he was their mark? How did they not know about his family? They're Time Cops!
posted by BungaDunga at 12:02 PM on March 9


I picked up on the lack of computers in this universe about the time that Klaus and Five went to retrieve the eyeball records… and they pull out a literal physical file folder with paper documents in it. Then we see a flashback of Vanya writing her book, and she does it on a red manual typewriter and submits her manuscript as a wodge of paper.

I could accept the LP in the first episode and the VHS security footage as being in-universe vintage. But paper files and writing a book on a typewriter stood out to me as tells that this was not our universe. I actually thought it would be explicitly addressed — by that point we knew Five could time-travel (but not yet that he could rewind time), so I was suspecting an alternate-timeline plot. Well, I got one, but it didn’t address the lack of computers.

I’m also of the right age to have well-formed memories of the newspaper, pay-phone, and paper filing-system world, while still being young enough to have accepted the growth of the internet as part of the natural order of things. So it was kind of a head trip, because part of me just unquestioningly accepts that people on this show are using pay phones, reading newspapers, taking road trips with paper maps, etc. Because that’s what normal people do on TV, right. And then (record scratch) I remember that it’s 2019, and I personally haven’t used a paper map or a pay phone for about 16 years. I imagine people younger than me have a much stronger sense of WTF, as this was never their world.
posted by snowmentality at 12:59 PM on March 10 [1 favorite]


Just finshed as well. I think it was good and better than the comic.

One thing that those who have not read the comic may miss is that Umbrella Academy (as adults at least) are a comically inept 'super team'. They fail at pretty much everything they attempt and usually end up making the situation worse. This is mostly played for laughs in the comic, as is the fact that Hargraves is an absolutely terrible father up to and including getting them killed through negligence or pettiness.

The show kept both of these, though in a massively toned down form. Since it is a much more serious and realistic interpretation neither work as well. I still enjoyed the show more than the comic due to the deeper focus on characters and less randompenguin shit, but the multiple idiot ball comments show the translation must not have worked as well for others.
posted by iamnotangry at 7:04 PM on March 14 [4 favorites]


I think their total ineptitude was portrayed pretty well in the show and yeah I'm surprised people expected them to be better. Especially after they caused the Apocalypse by trying to prevent it. That's professionally inept right there.
posted by fshgrl at 3:59 AM on March 16


hmmm. I was liking it through the first few episodes, but became increasingly frustrated as it went on. The first annoyance was how badly everyone treated Klaus, who was clearly in constant anguish, and then just how badly they all treated each other. Luther could have stopped the apocalypse by giving Vanya an actual hug instead of a fake trapping-her hug. I generally like surreal stories and interesting production design like this, but all the crappy interpersonal relations really sucked the joy out of it for me. Except for Klaus, Klaus was alright. And then there's every time they solve some of the mystery, Pogo shuffles in to say he's known it all along. He's clearly complicit in all the shittiness that the father perpetrated, but no-one seems to hold him accountable, or bothers to ask him what else he knows. I guess the next season will have to be about them learning to be decent people in order to "fix Vanya" so maybe that one will be better, but there was just too much idiot ball being played here for my tastes.
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 5:32 AM on March 20 [2 favorites]


I agree with what people have said about non-communication and cliches etc. Also the rumour power seems too much; couldn't you easily fix virtually everything with it?

All that granted - still an awful lot of fun.
posted by Segundus at 10:54 AM on March 21


Yeah, and the writers worked pretty hard to keep her from actually using her power in anything but a flashback. Which is kind of funny as an extension of the "characters fail to talk" cliché; Allison's power is talk-related and she fails to use it. But mostly frustrating.
posted by skewed at 11:19 AM on March 21


It was OK. It looked great, and was pretty well scripted, but the writing... It's got this weird thing that so much "golden age" TV has: boring daddy issues. This daddy was more boring than most, IMO.
posted by codacorolla at 11:28 PM on March 22


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