WandaVision: Previously On
February 26, 2021 12:04 AM - Season 1, Episode 8 - Subscribe
Wanda embarks on a troubling journey revisiting her past for insight into her present and future.
More answers and reveals! (Including why Wanda was so familiar with vintage US soap operas.) I am really enjoying how they like to pull the rug out from under us each week. It was also interesting to see the contrast between the "real" Westview, and the one inside the Hex.
posted by scorbet at 1:37 AM on February 26, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by scorbet at 1:37 AM on February 26, 2021 [2 favorites]
These were not the Salem witch trials I was expecting.
“Fietro” made me laugh, because fandom has fun with dumb, yet still useful portmanteaus, and I enjoy silly wordplay.
WhenAgnes Agatha said Wanda was “supposed to be a myth, a being capable of spontaneous creation,” I thought, “oh, shit, Phoenix?!” And ... I'm not sure that's wrong.
The SWORD break-in footage was in episode 5, around 11 minutes in. Re-watching it, it looks like there it was “only” excerpted, not otherwise manipulated. Hayward then said Wanda “stole the Vision’s body,” which is a lie. Wanda made the version we’ve seen in the show from scratch.
The head writer says "season one feels like a complete story" which is a bit of a relief, because I think there's only one episode left!
posted by Pronoiac at 1:47 AM on February 26, 2021 [5 favorites]
“Fietro” made me laugh, because fandom has fun with dumb, yet still useful portmanteaus, and I enjoy silly wordplay.
When
The SWORD break-in footage was in episode 5, around 11 minutes in. Re-watching it, it looks like there it was “only” excerpted, not otherwise manipulated. Hayward then said Wanda “stole the Vision’s body,” which is a lie. Wanda made the version we’ve seen in the show from scratch.
The head writer says "season one feels like a complete story" which is a bit of a relief, because I think there's only one episode left!
posted by Pronoiac at 1:47 AM on February 26, 2021 [5 favorites]
> As a non-comics reader, I don't know the significance of White Vision.
Warning: comics continuity.
Glancing through the Ultron fandom wiki page, there was a Vision that was dismantled, colorless, and emotionless, after the birth of the twins. After his dismantling, the kids were revealed as being fragments of Mephisto's soul, and they went away and were reabsorbed. This was around 1989; her missing her kids and occasionally "going insane from grief" has been the engine for a couple of big stories, like "House of M" and "Avengers Disassembled".
That's one angle. Another one is that he looks more like Ultron this way. If the resemblance extends to, oh, say, voice or behavior, that's not a good sign.
I could be completely wrong, btw, I wasn't big on Avengers when I read comics.
posted by Pronoiac at 2:50 AM on February 26, 2021 [1 favorite]
Warning: comics continuity.
Glancing through the Ultron fandom wiki page, there was a Vision that was dismantled, colorless, and emotionless, after the birth of the twins. After his dismantling, the kids were revealed as being fragments of Mephisto's soul, and they went away and were reabsorbed. This was around 1989; her missing her kids and occasionally "going insane from grief" has been the engine for a couple of big stories, like "House of M" and "Avengers Disassembled".
That's one angle. Another one is that he looks more like Ultron this way. If the resemblance extends to, oh, say, voice or behavior, that's not a good sign.
I could be completely wrong, btw, I wasn't big on Avengers when I read comics.
posted by Pronoiac at 2:50 AM on February 26, 2021 [1 favorite]
People are excited about "White Vision" because there was a story in the comics about the Vision where he was white like that. Definitely a spoiler if they are basing this story on that one, but I think it's possible they are going in a different direction.
This version of Agatha Harkness appears to be very different any of her appearances in the comics. And there's already something about this story that seems like it would have to play out differently than the "White Vision" story in the comics.
posted by straight at 2:53 AM on February 26, 2021 [1 favorite]
This version of Agatha Harkness appears to be very different any of her appearances in the comics. And there's already something about this story that seems like it would have to play out differently than the "White Vision" story in the comics.
posted by straight at 2:53 AM on February 26, 2021 [1 favorite]
I was about 50/50 on whether Agent Woo's emphatic comment about Wanda having no code name meant "sorry fans, Scarlet Witch is a dumb name and we aren't gonna use it" or "we're gonna tell the story of how she gets named Scarlet Witch"
posted by straight at 3:03 AM on February 26, 2021 [10 favorites]
posted by straight at 3:03 AM on February 26, 2021 [10 favorites]
The great thing about the name being revealed this way is this - Hayward wanted to brand Wanda as a terrorist who was radicalised and was untrustworthy and the brand name "Scarlet Witch" would have suit his purposes, but the name doesn't come to her because of the false narrative he wanted to create, it came to her as part of an ancient myth, as legend, passed down to her by a witch who was persecuted in Salem. Hayward wants her to be the villain, but her powers aren't inherently evil - the come from a place of passion and grief and she was annointed as such by another powerful woman, not by a corrupt male authority figure.
I love this show so much.
posted by crossoverman at 3:14 AM on February 26, 2021 [32 favorites]
I love this show so much.
posted by crossoverman at 3:14 AM on February 26, 2021 [32 favorites]
Some friends and I have been really enjoying the MCU over the years, especially after they figured out the audience didn't need an origin story when first meeting a character. We called it "starting the story at chapter 3" and then backtracking to fill in the gaps.
This episode does that really well because we actually care about Wanda and Vision at this point. We want the origin story, even if there's the obvious device of Agnes recapping bits and keeping the audience abreast of things. It worked really well here.
I'm also glad that Agnes seems very grey in character. She's in this for own means, but is also helping Wanda in a way. Also glad that there's no male big bad who's been manipulating Wanda, so that there's these two powerful women at the center of this story. Four if you include Monica and Darcy, and damn it, you should!
Not sure about White Vision, it implies a typical superhero battle which can get trite really fast. But the show hasn't let me down so far, so I remain hopeful. Am guessing that a rebuilt Vision outside the hex could provide a place for Hexvision to live.
Damn, this is gonna be a long week!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 3:46 AM on February 26, 2021 [4 favorites]
This episode does that really well because we actually care about Wanda and Vision at this point. We want the origin story, even if there's the obvious device of Agnes recapping bits and keeping the audience abreast of things. It worked really well here.
I'm also glad that Agnes seems very grey in character. She's in this for own means, but is also helping Wanda in a way. Also glad that there's no male big bad who's been manipulating Wanda, so that there's these two powerful women at the center of this story. Four if you include Monica and Darcy, and damn it, you should!
Not sure about White Vision, it implies a typical superhero battle which can get trite really fast. But the show hasn't let me down so far, so I remain hopeful. Am guessing that a rebuilt Vision outside the hex could provide a place for Hexvision to live.
Damn, this is gonna be a long week!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 3:46 AM on February 26, 2021 [4 favorites]
If Wanda was the one who was into sitcoms, where did the "It Was Agatha All Along" song come from?
posted by TheophileEscargot at 4:17 AM on February 26, 2021
posted by TheophileEscargot at 4:17 AM on February 26, 2021
Maybe Agatha heard the intro music every time?
Another amazing episode!
posted by ellieBOA at 4:21 AM on February 26, 2021
Another amazing episode!
posted by ellieBOA at 4:21 AM on February 26, 2021
where did the "It Was Agatha All Along" song come from?
She’s been around since 1695, I’m sure she’s seen all the sitcoms too...
Agatha does seem to be aware of what’s going on, including the sitcommish setting, so it may still have been from her. I was briefly wondering if Agatha was after all a figment of Wanda’s imagination, but the opening scene in 1695 probably rules that out.
posted by scorbet at 4:38 AM on February 26, 2021 [3 favorites]
She’s been around since 1695, I’m sure she’s seen all the sitcoms too...
Agatha does seem to be aware of what’s going on, including the sitcommish setting, so it may still have been from her. I was briefly wondering if Agatha was after all a figment of Wanda’s imagination, but the opening scene in 1695 probably rules that out.
posted by scorbet at 4:38 AM on February 26, 2021 [3 favorites]
Oh. No.
posted by Faintdreams at 4:50 AM on February 26, 2021
posted by Faintdreams at 4:50 AM on February 26, 2021
I am amazed that Wanda doesn’t drive an Audi.
posted by 1970s Antihero at 4:52 AM on February 26, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by 1970s Antihero at 4:52 AM on February 26, 2021 [3 favorites]
As someone who knows the MCU quite well, but not the comics, and based purely on what we've seen thus far in this show [in isolation] -
WandaVision - What we know so far
- Westview was (according to Wanda's memories) a dying town.
- Vision bought the empty house Plot for Wanda
- Grief appears to be THE BIG BAD in the strongest sense, with a steaming side helping of Director Hayward
What we don't know:
- How big the Hex Phenomena is.
- Wanda spontaneously started the 'Hex' Phenomena, but can she turn it off?
- How long the Hex Phenomena has been in existence in 'real time'?
- How being inside the Hex [aside from the huge mental turmoil] is affecting the townspeople trapped inside?
- Why director Hayward lied about Wanda stealing Visions Body?
- If the Being inside the Hex who thinks he's Vision, in-fact is not, then Who / What is he?
- Where is Monica, and what is happening to her?
- Where is Darcy, and what is happening to her?
- Where Vision - the Hex version - is, and what is happening to him?
- Who / What the Twins even are?
- If Ralph exists?
- Who / What Ralph is?
- Who / What Pietro [Fake!Pietro Fietro] is?
- Who / What Snr scratchy is. Rabbits don't tend to eat flies?
- The identity of the person in witness protection? - that Agent Woo was handler for?
- Who / What the 'White' Vision creature is?
- Agatha said she was drawn to the the vast amounts of magic being used to surround Westview. This implies she wasn't in Westview when Wanda created the Hex. How Did Agatha get into the Hex?
- What's the significance of the ominous Tome we saw last week [episode 7]?
Things to note:
MCU Magic [or technology so advanced as to be labelled magic] is definitely colour coded.
- Agatha's Coven magic was Blue
- Agatha's magic is Purple.
- Wanda's magic is Red.
- Whatever effected Monica when she fought her way into the Hex is Blue.
TLDR: In summation - next weeks episode better be an hour long is what I'm saying
posted by Faintdreams at 4:54 AM on February 26, 2021 [4 favorites]
WandaVision - What we know so far
- Westview was (according to Wanda's memories) a dying town.
- Vision bought the empty house Plot for Wanda
- Grief appears to be THE BIG BAD in the strongest sense, with a steaming side helping of Director Hayward
What we don't know:
- How big the Hex Phenomena is.
- Wanda spontaneously started the 'Hex' Phenomena, but can she turn it off?
- How long the Hex Phenomena has been in existence in 'real time'?
- How being inside the Hex [aside from the huge mental turmoil] is affecting the townspeople trapped inside?
- Why director Hayward lied about Wanda stealing Visions Body?
- If the Being inside the Hex who thinks he's Vision, in-fact is not, then Who / What is he?
- Where is Monica, and what is happening to her?
- Where is Darcy, and what is happening to her?
- Where Vision - the Hex version - is, and what is happening to him?
- Who / What the Twins even are?
- If Ralph exists?
- Who / What Ralph is?
- Who / What Pietro [Fake!Pietro Fietro] is?
- Who / What Snr scratchy is. Rabbits don't tend to eat flies?
- The identity of the person in witness protection? - that Agent Woo was handler for?
- Who / What the 'White' Vision creature is?
- Agatha said she was drawn to the the vast amounts of magic being used to surround Westview. This implies she wasn't in Westview when Wanda created the Hex. How Did Agatha get into the Hex?
- What's the significance of the ominous Tome we saw last week [episode 7]?
Things to note:
MCU Magic [or technology so advanced as to be labelled magic] is definitely colour coded.
- Agatha's Coven magic was Blue
- Agatha's magic is Purple.
- Wanda's magic is Red.
- Whatever effected Monica when she fought her way into the Hex is Blue.
TLDR: In summation - next weeks episode better be an hour long is what I'm saying
posted by Faintdreams at 4:54 AM on February 26, 2021 [4 favorites]
Also I like how Agatha is basically a magical Tony Stark.
Knowledge at all costs.
Agatha defiantly does not see herself as being a bad person in this instance, even thought having glimpsed her magical 'origin story' her quest for knowledge is rooted in.. lethal consequences.
posted by Faintdreams at 4:56 AM on February 26, 2021 [1 favorite]
Knowledge at all costs.
Agatha defiantly does not see herself as being a bad person in this instance, even thought having glimpsed her magical 'origin story' her quest for knowledge is rooted in.. lethal consequences.
posted by Faintdreams at 4:56 AM on February 26, 2021 [1 favorite]
Westview was a dying town.
That was what the entire world was like after the Snap.
Vision bought the empty house Plot for Wanda
Vision probably bought a house for Wanda, but it was left unoccupied and torn down in the five years after the Snap.
Why director Hayward lied about Wanda stealing Visions Body?
Hayward is a dick. No further explanation needed.
posted by 1970s Antihero at 5:04 AM on February 26, 2021 [11 favorites]
That was what the entire world was like after the Snap.
Vision bought the empty house Plot for Wanda
Vision probably bought a house for Wanda, but it was left unoccupied and torn down in the five years after the Snap.
Why director Hayward lied about Wanda stealing Visions Body?
Hayward is a dick. No further explanation needed.
posted by 1970s Antihero at 5:04 AM on February 26, 2021 [11 favorites]
I love this show so much! It probably counts as my third favorite MCU movie. No doubt because it’s about 4–5 hours dedicated to just two main characters. Wanda is now the best-developed character in the MCU who didn’t have a Phase 1 movie named after them.
Very interesting to learn that Wanda is a natural born witch, and that’s why she was able to infuse herself with the power of the Mind Stone, reversing the cause and effect we thought we knew. And the fact that Hex Vision was created out of whole cloth explains very tidily why he has Pietro’s super speed. I’m also happy to know that Wanda has not been subconsciously puppeteering Vision’s corpse all this time.
Sounds like Fietro was indeed a casting stunt and not a harbinger of the X-Men joining the MCU by way of the Multiverse? If pulling Real Pietro from a different continent was too much for Agatha, then is pulling an alternate version of him from another dimension that much easier? Maybe! Who knows!
I love comic book logic but I think it was a stretch too far that a drone that Wanda blasted out of the sky would contain enough harvestable energy to power White Vision. It would make more comic-book-logic sense to me if analyzing the power signature of the drone allowed them to suck limitless energy directly from the Hex into White Vision. I think this has been my only criticism of the show so far! But I am very happy for this comic-book-logic excuse of how Vision will come back to life and rejoin the MCU (fingers crossed).
I was genuinely surprised to see that the identity of Commercial Man and Commercial Woman were not revealed in this episode. I believed the now-disproved theory that they were Wanda’s parents—but surely they have to have some significance? Though now that I think of it—if Wanda knows all these shows from DVDs, she would never have seen the commercials of their times!
Anyway, I am now both anxiously awaiting the next episode, and dreading this show coming to an end.
posted by ejs at 5:39 AM on February 26, 2021
Very interesting to learn that Wanda is a natural born witch, and that’s why she was able to infuse herself with the power of the Mind Stone, reversing the cause and effect we thought we knew. And the fact that Hex Vision was created out of whole cloth explains very tidily why he has Pietro’s super speed. I’m also happy to know that Wanda has not been subconsciously puppeteering Vision’s corpse all this time.
Sounds like Fietro was indeed a casting stunt and not a harbinger of the X-Men joining the MCU by way of the Multiverse? If pulling Real Pietro from a different continent was too much for Agatha, then is pulling an alternate version of him from another dimension that much easier? Maybe! Who knows!
I love comic book logic but I think it was a stretch too far that a drone that Wanda blasted out of the sky would contain enough harvestable energy to power White Vision. It would make more comic-book-logic sense to me if analyzing the power signature of the drone allowed them to suck limitless energy directly from the Hex into White Vision. I think this has been my only criticism of the show so far! But I am very happy for this comic-book-logic excuse of how Vision will come back to life and rejoin the MCU (fingers crossed).
I was genuinely surprised to see that the identity of Commercial Man and Commercial Woman were not revealed in this episode. I believed the now-disproved theory that they were Wanda’s parents—but surely they have to have some significance? Though now that I think of it—if Wanda knows all these shows from DVDs, she would never have seen the commercials of their times!
Anyway, I am now both anxiously awaiting the next episode, and dreading this show coming to an end.
posted by ejs at 5:39 AM on February 26, 2021
Given how close we are to the un-snappening it's possible that Westview is in such a dire condition because the world is more or less in that condition.
posted by Karmakaze at 7:45 AM on February 26, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Karmakaze at 7:45 AM on February 26, 2021 [1 favorite]
ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
posted by sixswitch at 7:46 AM on February 26, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by sixswitch at 7:46 AM on February 26, 2021 [2 favorites]
I assume Agatha wants to figure out how Wanda got this superpowered, but this seemed somewhat nice of her under the circumstances.
"Fietro," hah.
Will Rebuilt!Vision be able to stop Wanda? Will they get together? Fingers crossed? How does it end?
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:50 AM on February 26, 2021
"Fietro," hah.
Will Rebuilt!Vision be able to stop Wanda? Will they get together? Fingers crossed? How does it end?
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:50 AM on February 26, 2021
Agent Woo knew the details of Vision's will. Somebody sent Wanda an envelope with details about a house Vision had purchased or planned to purchase. Wanda was a famous fugitive from the law who would only be able to live in the USA if someone had arranged some kind of witness protection deal for her.
posted by straight at 8:03 AM on February 26, 2021 [20 favorites]
posted by straight at 8:03 AM on February 26, 2021 [20 favorites]
it's interesting to me that Agnes seems like a free agent but still in her own way adhering to a code of conduct similar to that of the order Dr Strange's from. She's just there to investigate shennanigans!
posted by cendawanita at 9:02 AM on February 26, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by cendawanita at 9:02 AM on February 26, 2021 [2 favorites]
This was really good. I am so happy to have Wanda's backstory so fleshed out. Kid Wanda was adorable. And the Stark bomb wasn't a dud but she magicked it? Badass.
Loved seeing Agatha in full witch costume and fierce eyebrows. Where has she been since the 17th century I wonder? I loved her Salieri vibe, like "you don't even know basic witch things and yet you're doing this crazy huge magic and it pisses me off!"
Pretty sure Senor Scratchy is actually a cat and thus eats bugs.
Wanda got a vision of Scarlet Witch while getting zapped by the stone. Will she end up wearing that outfit again?
posted by emjaybee at 9:09 AM on February 26, 2021 [13 favorites]
Loved seeing Agatha in full witch costume and fierce eyebrows. Where has she been since the 17th century I wonder? I loved her Salieri vibe, like "you don't even know basic witch things and yet you're doing this crazy huge magic and it pisses me off!"
Pretty sure Senor Scratchy is actually a cat and thus eats bugs.
Wanda got a vision of Scarlet Witch while getting zapped by the stone. Will she end up wearing that outfit again?
posted by emjaybee at 9:09 AM on February 26, 2021 [13 favorites]
All this time we thought Hayward was trying to recover the valuable Vibranium shell when really he had the body and was searching for the key to get it working again.
Which actually makes his decision to try to kill Wanda more sympathetic, because he would have been losing a possible key to get his synthezoid working in order to save the people in the town from their captivity to Wanda's delusion.
Also Vision's body has got to be worth a whole lot more than $3 billion. That's less than 1/4 of an of aircraft carrier.
posted by straight at 9:21 AM on February 26, 2021 [3 favorites]
Which actually makes his decision to try to kill Wanda more sympathetic, because he would have been losing a possible key to get his synthezoid working in order to save the people in the town from their captivity to Wanda's delusion.
Also Vision's body has got to be worth a whole lot more than $3 billion. That's less than 1/4 of an of aircraft carrier.
posted by straight at 9:21 AM on February 26, 2021 [3 favorites]
Hayward said the Vibranium in Vision's body was worth $3 billion, which admittedly still sounds low. Since Wakada is the only source of it, I would assume Vision is worth hundreds of billions in Vibranium alone.
$3 billion in military/government spending is almost a rounding error.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:27 AM on February 26, 2021 [7 favorites]
$3 billion in military/government spending is almost a rounding error.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:27 AM on February 26, 2021 [7 favorites]
I don't think it's a big mystery how Agatha could have penetrated Wanda's hex without getting transformed by it as she clearly knows enough about magic to directly bind Wanda.
In a previous episode discussion, I mentioned how many different explanations Marvel comics have used through the years for Wanda's powers. I was not expecting them to go with: all of them.
So Wanda has innate don't-call-it-mutant-yet power;she's unknowingly casting spells like a wizard; one of her spells is a "probability hex"; she's been powered-up by an infinity stone; she's some kind of inherently powerful magical being; she's tapping into chaos magic.
That thing where she uses chaos magic to summon together disbursed energy (notice she makes Vision out of yellow Mind Stone energy rather than her own red power) to bring back someone who was thought to have died -- she's done that in the comics, except it was Wonder Man instead of Vision (except they are almost the same person because in the comics Vision's mind was created from the patterns of Wonder Man's mind).
posted by straight at 9:34 AM on February 26, 2021 [11 favorites]
In a previous episode discussion, I mentioned how many different explanations Marvel comics have used through the years for Wanda's powers. I was not expecting them to go with: all of them.
So Wanda has innate don't-call-it-mutant-yet power;she's unknowingly casting spells like a wizard; one of her spells is a "probability hex"; she's been powered-up by an infinity stone; she's some kind of inherently powerful magical being; she's tapping into chaos magic.
That thing where she uses chaos magic to summon together disbursed energy (notice she makes Vision out of yellow Mind Stone energy rather than her own red power) to bring back someone who was thought to have died -- she's done that in the comics, except it was Wonder Man instead of Vision (except they are almost the same person because in the comics Vision's mind was created from the patterns of Wonder Man's mind).
posted by straight at 9:34 AM on February 26, 2021 [11 favorites]
1) I'm glad that Agatha isn't an evil villain, but rather a Research Witch drawn to the chaos-magic that Wanda's been throwing around.
2) I was glad to see a Buick. My first car was a '73 Century Regal, w/ a V8.
3) The Strongman is going to be Wolverine after "reverse decimation"
4) I don't think the house was torn down, but rather after Vision stopped calling the contractor, he stopped at the foundation. Maybe the contractor got snapped-away.
posted by mikelieman at 9:36 AM on February 26, 2021 [5 favorites]
2) I was glad to see a Buick. My first car was a '73 Century Regal, w/ a V8.
3) The Strongman is going to be Wolverine after "reverse decimation"
4) I don't think the house was torn down, but rather after Vision stopped calling the contractor, he stopped at the foundation. Maybe the contractor got snapped-away.
posted by mikelieman at 9:36 AM on February 26, 2021 [5 favorites]
Why are people saying Agatha isn’t evil? Just listen to the lyrics of the song she created to introduce herself! She killed a dog!! And she’s clearly not just investigating Wanda’s power out of curiosity, she wants it for herself. The scene in Salem 1693 made it clear she’s power hungry.
posted by ejs at 9:53 AM on February 26, 2021 [13 favorites]
posted by ejs at 9:53 AM on February 26, 2021 [13 favorites]
And the fact that Hex Vision was created out of whole cloth explains very tidily why he has Pietro’s super speed.
I can't remember what you are referring to here?
posted by straight at 9:58 AM on February 26, 2021
I can't remember what you are referring to here?
posted by straight at 9:58 AM on February 26, 2021
"Scarlet Witch" would have suit his purposes, but the name doesn't come to her because of the false narrative he wanted to create, it came to her as part of an ancient myth, as legend, passed down to her by a witch who was persecuted in Salem. Hayward wants her to be the villain, but her powers aren't inherently evil - the come from a place of passion and grief and she was annointed as such by another powerful woman, not by a corrupt male authority figure.
And Agatha's story subverts this as well. We assume she's being brought to the stake by patriarchal persecutors who are accusing her of being a witch. Actually she's being brought to the stake by witches accusing her of not being a proper witch.
(It's not at all clear that the witches who bound Agatha were good and what she'd been doing was evil. They try to kill her and it backfires.)
posted by straight at 10:05 AM on February 26, 2021 [3 favorites]
And Agatha's story subverts this as well. We assume she's being brought to the stake by patriarchal persecutors who are accusing her of being a witch. Actually she's being brought to the stake by witches accusing her of not being a proper witch.
(It's not at all clear that the witches who bound Agatha were good and what she'd been doing was evil. They try to kill her and it backfires.)
posted by straight at 10:05 AM on February 26, 2021 [3 favorites]
I don't have Disney+ so my only experience of this show has been following the Metafilter threads - which has been quite a ride in its own right.
One question, though: have they dropped the sitcom-of-the-week formatting now? No-one's mentioned that for a while.
posted by Paul Slade at 10:35 AM on February 26, 2021
One question, though: have they dropped the sitcom-of-the-week formatting now? No-one's mentioned that for a while.
posted by Paul Slade at 10:35 AM on February 26, 2021
Paul Slade: this episode and episode 4 did not have a sitcom format. All other episodes have.
posted by ejs at 10:40 AM on February 26, 2021
posted by ejs at 10:40 AM on February 26, 2021
straight: In the first three episodes Vision exhibited super speed that’s he’s never shown in the movies. Interestingly enough he hasn’t since Fietro showed up.
posted by ejs at 10:47 AM on February 26, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by ejs at 10:47 AM on February 26, 2021 [1 favorite]
(It's not at all clear that the witches who bound Agatha were good and what she'd been doing was evil. They try to kill her and it backfires.)
But doesn't Agnes say "I can be good ?"
posted by Pendragon at 11:40 AM on February 26, 2021 [1 favorite]
But doesn't Agnes say "I can be good ?"
posted by Pendragon at 11:40 AM on February 26, 2021 [1 favorite]
When they did the “Shadowy person with pointy headdress bathed in golden light so you can’t see their face” shot, my mind went to Enchantress, but I couldn’t tell if the headdress was green. If so, maybe a tease for Dr Strange 2?
posted by FallibleHuman at 11:50 AM on February 26, 2021
posted by FallibleHuman at 11:50 AM on February 26, 2021
Which actually makes his decision to try to kill Wanda more sympathetic, because he would have been losing a possible key to get his synthezoid working in order to save the people in the town from their captivity to Wanda's delusion.
Nah. Hayward is 100% "mediocre white dude in a position beyond his ability and judgment." Compare him to the rest of the cast. That's his role, and it's meaningful. Sure, he's got all those people in Westview as a sort of moral justification, but it all comes after the fact and he uses that as a cynical ploy. He's fine with the end justifying the means.
"Government dude screwing up stuff he doesn't understand because he's scared, power-hungry, or both" is a recurring Marvel theme in both the comics and the live-action stuff.
As for Agnes... I wouldn't be surprised if there's a later swerve of "You needed a bad guy to work through this, so I played the bad guy." Or not. They have both options, except for the dog-killing issue. Gotta work out that wrinkle.
As others have noted, the white rebuild of the Vision is from the comics. He didn't come back to his former personality and they wound up getting divorced, adding to Wanda's trauma. A thing to understand about the comics connection is that Wanda's traumas pile up over decades, and so a lot of those big plot points are years apart.
The MCU diverges a lot from the comics, too, so it's worth noting that knowing the comics isn't always that informative for the MCU. Like, the Guardians are each individually way different from the comics; Gamora is underpowered by comparison, comics Quill isn't (or wasn't) a tool, and Drax only matches the comics visually but is otherwise a completely different person. Civil War only barely touches on the plot from the comics, for which we should all be deeply grateful.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 11:54 AM on February 26, 2021 [12 favorites]
Nah. Hayward is 100% "mediocre white dude in a position beyond his ability and judgment." Compare him to the rest of the cast. That's his role, and it's meaningful. Sure, he's got all those people in Westview as a sort of moral justification, but it all comes after the fact and he uses that as a cynical ploy. He's fine with the end justifying the means.
"Government dude screwing up stuff he doesn't understand because he's scared, power-hungry, or both" is a recurring Marvel theme in both the comics and the live-action stuff.
As for Agnes... I wouldn't be surprised if there's a later swerve of "You needed a bad guy to work through this, so I played the bad guy." Or not. They have both options, except for the dog-killing issue. Gotta work out that wrinkle.
As others have noted, the white rebuild of the Vision is from the comics. He didn't come back to his former personality and they wound up getting divorced, adding to Wanda's trauma. A thing to understand about the comics connection is that Wanda's traumas pile up over decades, and so a lot of those big plot points are years apart.
The MCU diverges a lot from the comics, too, so it's worth noting that knowing the comics isn't always that informative for the MCU. Like, the Guardians are each individually way different from the comics; Gamora is underpowered by comparison, comics Quill isn't (or wasn't) a tool, and Drax only matches the comics visually but is otherwise a completely different person. Civil War only barely touches on the plot from the comics, for which we should all be deeply grateful.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 11:54 AM on February 26, 2021 [12 favorites]
1) Vision's line about grief is one of the best moments of writing across the MCU. That's a whole big thing right there.
2) I really appreciated the metatext of Wanda saying "It's not that kind of show." Good reminder for the audience (although, god, that plays merry hell with my expectations).
posted by scaryblackdeath at 12:05 PM on February 26, 2021 [25 favorites]
2) I really appreciated the metatext of Wanda saying "It's not that kind of show." Good reminder for the audience (although, god, that plays merry hell with my expectations).
posted by scaryblackdeath at 12:05 PM on February 26, 2021 [25 favorites]
There are still a LOT of loose ends to tie up in one episode...I wonder how many will bumped to Loki, Spider Man 3 and Doctor Strange 2?
posted by emjaybee at 12:11 PM on February 26, 2021
posted by emjaybee at 12:11 PM on February 26, 2021
Slate's The Casual Marvel Fan’s Guide to WandaVision Episode 8: White Vision, chaos magic, and more, explained.
posted by ShooBoo at 12:15 PM on February 26, 2021
posted by ShooBoo at 12:15 PM on February 26, 2021
I loved this and was also a bit relieved.
I thought the show seemed like it might turn into Wanda as a victim, manipulated by Agatha, after last week's big reveal. It would have totally undercut the themes of grief and loss and the harm you can do just trying to hang on to the modest comforts you think you are entitled to. So despite the theme song I didn't like the twist.
But no, they haven't undercut the premise of the show. And there are a ton of pieces in play for the season finale.
posted by mark k at 12:21 PM on February 26, 2021 [1 favorite]
I thought the show seemed like it might turn into Wanda as a victim, manipulated by Agatha, after last week's big reveal. It would have totally undercut the themes of grief and loss and the harm you can do just trying to hang on to the modest comforts you think you are entitled to. So despite the theme song I didn't like the twist.
But no, they haven't undercut the premise of the show. And there are a ton of pieces in play for the season finale.
posted by mark k at 12:21 PM on February 26, 2021 [1 favorite]
My guess is that after whiteVision fights and gets defeated, it (corporeal body) and hexVision (personality + remaining Mind Stone energies) will get merged into nuVision. I'm hoping Agatha doesn't become the real Big Bad of the show; Hayward + puppet whiteVision fills that role well enough.
posted by Fiberoptic Zebroid and The Hypnagogic Jerks at 12:51 PM on February 26, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by Fiberoptic Zebroid and The Hypnagogic Jerks at 12:51 PM on February 26, 2021 [4 favorites]
In the first three episodes Vision exhibited super speed that’s he’s never shown in the movies.
I thought that was just synthezoid speed. He doesn't get to the doctor and back at anything like Quicksilver speed; it seemed more like the speed he was flying around in Age of Ultron. But I think you're right that the VFX in that scene reads more like "super-speed" than like Thor or someone flying away real fast.
posted by straight at 1:20 PM on February 26, 2021 [1 favorite]
I thought that was just synthezoid speed. He doesn't get to the doctor and back at anything like Quicksilver speed; it seemed more like the speed he was flying around in Age of Ultron. But I think you're right that the VFX in that scene reads more like "super-speed" than like Thor or someone flying away real fast.
posted by straight at 1:20 PM on February 26, 2021 [1 favorite]
I too am concerned for the final episode's density but I still am trusting these guys. They have thought things through, it seems.
When Agatha kinda pressed at the corner of her eye to stop the tear after the Vision conversation I decided she's not evil. That doesn't really mean she's a good guy either but I'm sticking to my view until further evidence arrives.
That line of Vision's was amazing and I might have to stitch it on a sampler.
I am sooooooo glad the house was significant. It felt significant.
Some days I can't believe they plotted and I believe shot this before Covid hit. The world is going to need a path out of trauma that isn't like roaring 20s/Depression, so fingers crossed we can just rewatch this episode a bunch of times and not try to rewrite reality with disastrous results.
posted by warriorqueen at 1:22 PM on February 26, 2021 [13 favorites]
When Agatha kinda pressed at the corner of her eye to stop the tear after the Vision conversation I decided she's not evil. That doesn't really mean she's a good guy either but I'm sticking to my view until further evidence arrives.
That line of Vision's was amazing and I might have to stitch it on a sampler.
I am sooooooo glad the house was significant. It felt significant.
Some days I can't believe they plotted and I believe shot this before Covid hit. The world is going to need a path out of trauma that isn't like roaring 20s/Depression, so fingers crossed we can just rewatch this episode a bunch of times and not try to rewrite reality with disastrous results.
posted by warriorqueen at 1:22 PM on February 26, 2021 [13 favorites]
From the Casual Guide that ShooBoo linked above:
...it does seem as though the immense power that created Westview came about as a result of Wanda’s grief, possibly mixed with buyer’s remorse.
Given how somber the episode was, that unexpected juxtaposition in the discussion was genuinely funny. Well played.
posted by los pantalones del muerte at 1:40 PM on February 26, 2021
...it does seem as though the immense power that created Westview came about as a result of Wanda’s grief, possibly mixed with buyer’s remorse.
Given how somber the episode was, that unexpected juxtaposition in the discussion was genuinely funny. Well played.
posted by los pantalones del muerte at 1:40 PM on February 26, 2021
Paul Bettany is amazingly good in that scene with Wanda grieving. I've seen a bunch of stories with robots or aliens learning about human emotions, but never anything like Vision's shy, compassionate observation, "Well, because it can't all be sorrow, can it?"
posted by straight at 1:45 PM on February 26, 2021 [13 favorites]
posted by straight at 1:45 PM on February 26, 2021 [13 favorites]
Vision saying grief is love persevering made my heart jump. He's a smart ol' synthezoid.
posted by wabbittwax at 1:59 PM on February 26, 2021 [15 favorites]
posted by wabbittwax at 1:59 PM on February 26, 2021 [15 favorites]
I ran across a couple of comic pages re: white Vision being brutally icy that oof I hope they don't do in the show or ever, really.
posted by Pronoiac at 2:49 PM on February 26, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by Pronoiac at 2:49 PM on February 26, 2021 [6 favorites]
Rewatching this episode, I was thinking about how often (like too often!) comics writers (mostly men, let's be honest) have put women characters through all kinds of trauma only for it ultimately to be about how the men characters react to it. Women don't even get to be the leads in their own stories.
This show is about Wanda's trauma and Wanda's pain. She's the main character in her own story. It's not about the men at all. And that's so amazing and refreshing.
I don't think Agatha is really the "big bad" in the traditional sense. I don't see her and Wanda fighting this out. (And I think she was genuinely moved while going through Wanda's memories.) This is about Wanda trying to reckon with her grief. That's her enemy. I don't think this show would've spent 8 episodes setting that up only to throw it away in the last one.
That Wanda's powers seem to have been innate is ... interesting. I don't really know enough about witches in the MCU but that does feel like a setup for "mutants" eventually (I don't think that show is going to say that word but I do think it's laying the groundwork).
I also need to rewatch the footage of Wanda "breaking into" SWORD but I liked how the footage we saw looked like her wearing her Avengers outfit when really, she was probably just wearing the comfy casual outfit we saw her in. Such good styling!
I am going to miss this show when it ends.
posted by edencosmic at 3:10 PM on February 26, 2021 [14 favorites]
This show is about Wanda's trauma and Wanda's pain. She's the main character in her own story. It's not about the men at all. And that's so amazing and refreshing.
I don't think Agatha is really the "big bad" in the traditional sense. I don't see her and Wanda fighting this out. (And I think she was genuinely moved while going through Wanda's memories.) This is about Wanda trying to reckon with her grief. That's her enemy. I don't think this show would've spent 8 episodes setting that up only to throw it away in the last one.
That Wanda's powers seem to have been innate is ... interesting. I don't really know enough about witches in the MCU but that does feel like a setup for "mutants" eventually (I don't think that show is going to say that word but I do think it's laying the groundwork).
I also need to rewatch the footage of Wanda "breaking into" SWORD but I liked how the footage we saw looked like her wearing her Avengers outfit when really, she was probably just wearing the comfy casual outfit we saw her in. Such good styling!
I am going to miss this show when it ends.
posted by edencosmic at 3:10 PM on February 26, 2021 [14 favorites]
Lol Wanda’s room at the Avengers compound is so small and low rent compared to the one she has in Civil War.
Am I the only one who remembers the Eastview cops telling Jimmy and Monica that there was no Westview? Did I just make that whole dum-dum-DUM moment up? I’m confused.
Bettany is dead to me but he was fantastic on that line about grief. That’s absolutely one of the best things they’ve done in the MCU. And I was really impressed with how they portrayed Wanda’s grief—losing a twin is a particularly hellish loss and it’s one of the few times I’ve ever seen that handled well in a piece of media. It led in to her other grief so well.
posted by kitten kaboodle at 3:18 PM on February 26, 2021 [3 favorites]
Am I the only one who remembers the Eastview cops telling Jimmy and Monica that there was no Westview? Did I just make that whole dum-dum-DUM moment up? I’m confused.
Bettany is dead to me but he was fantastic on that line about grief. That’s absolutely one of the best things they’ve done in the MCU. And I was really impressed with how they portrayed Wanda’s grief—losing a twin is a particularly hellish loss and it’s one of the few times I’ve ever seen that handled well in a piece of media. It led in to her other grief so well.
posted by kitten kaboodle at 3:18 PM on February 26, 2021 [3 favorites]
Proniac: He sure looks a lot like Dr Manhattan there.
This show is about Wanda's trauma and Wanda's pain. She's the main character in her own story. It's not about the men at all. And that's so amazing and refreshing.
Kind of like the Bechdel Test writ large, then? Maybe this show will mark the beginning of Bechdel 2.0.
posted by Paul Slade at 3:23 PM on February 26, 2021 [2 favorites]
This show is about Wanda's trauma and Wanda's pain. She's the main character in her own story. It's not about the men at all. And that's so amazing and refreshing.
Kind of like the Bechdel Test writ large, then? Maybe this show will mark the beginning of Bechdel 2.0.
posted by Paul Slade at 3:23 PM on February 26, 2021 [2 favorites]
Am I the only one who remembers the Eastview cops telling Jimmy and Monica that there was no Westview? Did I just make that whole dum-dum-DUM moment up?
No. But think a bit and you may also remember that Jimmy Wu was telling Monica he had specifically sent someone to Westview via the witness protection program, and had gone to check up on things when he couldn't make contact. Jimmy also said that he'd followed up with the witnesses' family - and not only could they not tell him where his witness was, the witnesses' family didn't even remember the person existed.
That, plus the cops, lead me to suspect that Westview exists, but the Hex has put some kind of mojo on non-Westviewers nearby to make Westview "invisible" to them so they would stay out.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:38 PM on February 26, 2021 [5 favorites]
No. But think a bit and you may also remember that Jimmy Wu was telling Monica he had specifically sent someone to Westview via the witness protection program, and had gone to check up on things when he couldn't make contact. Jimmy also said that he'd followed up with the witnesses' family - and not only could they not tell him where his witness was, the witnesses' family didn't even remember the person existed.
That, plus the cops, lead me to suspect that Westview exists, but the Hex has put some kind of mojo on non-Westviewers nearby to make Westview "invisible" to them so they would stay out.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:38 PM on February 26, 2021 [5 favorites]
The "Eastview cop" said there was no Westview while standing in front of a "welcome to Westview" sign.
posted by Pronoiac at 4:09 PM on February 26, 2021 [11 favorites]
posted by Pronoiac at 4:09 PM on February 26, 2021 [11 favorites]
Rewatching this episode, I was thinking about how often (like too often!) comics writers (mostly men, let's be honest) have put women characters through all kinds of trauma only for it ultimately to be about how the men characters react to it. Women don't even get to be the leads in their own stories.
This show is about Wanda's trauma and Wanda's pain. She's the main character in her own story. It's not about the men at all. And that's so amazing and refreshing.
The lead writer for WandaVision has talked about exactly this in at least a couple of interviews and promo things. I think it's very much on her mind & others in the whole production.
This is the real tension between the comics vs the films & TV. A lot of the seeds and ideas have come from the comics, but the films & TV have a far better track record of sticking the landing. I'm hoping for a much different resolution and better message than "Wanda's powerful and crazy and that makes her scary, oh no" as we've seen in the comics again and again.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 4:14 PM on February 26, 2021 [14 favorites]
This show is about Wanda's trauma and Wanda's pain. She's the main character in her own story. It's not about the men at all. And that's so amazing and refreshing.
The lead writer for WandaVision has talked about exactly this in at least a couple of interviews and promo things. I think it's very much on her mind & others in the whole production.
This is the real tension between the comics vs the films & TV. A lot of the seeds and ideas have come from the comics, but the films & TV have a far better track record of sticking the landing. I'm hoping for a much different resolution and better message than "Wanda's powerful and crazy and that makes her scary, oh no" as we've seen in the comics again and again.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 4:14 PM on February 26, 2021 [14 favorites]
I love creative ways of explaining why characters from another country are speaking english, "we practice english as a family on movie night" is such a cute way of doing it
posted by jason_steakums at 4:27 PM on February 26, 2021 [18 favorites]
posted by jason_steakums at 4:27 PM on February 26, 2021 [18 favorites]
I'm still waiting for the Dottie Jones is Arcanna reveal. The yellow colour coding fits with her magic and her flowers in the show. Plus, you know, Arcanna's last name in the comics is Jones. The last episode does feel a bit late to put that reveal, so maybe they're laying the groundwork for the next Doctor Strange.
posted by forbiddencabinet at 4:34 PM on February 26, 2021
posted by forbiddencabinet at 4:34 PM on February 26, 2021
Oh, as far as the silhouette goes in that yellow burst of magic? As cool as it would be for them to be introducing enchantress, I think it's just supposed to be the scarlet witch costume. Like it is a vision of her future or something.
posted by forbiddencabinet at 4:40 PM on February 26, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by forbiddencabinet at 4:40 PM on February 26, 2021 [2 favorites]
Yeah some people have already messed with the brightness and contrast on it and it's Wanda in full comics costume! Pretty great to see.
What I found really interesting is the spectral tiara thing that Agatha's mother displayed when using her magic. I suppose it's a thing now that I think about it! Wanda, Enchantress, Snowbird, Arcanna and I'm sure others, mystical women of Marvel do like that head gear.
posted by jason_steakums at 4:55 PM on February 26, 2021 [7 favorites]
What I found really interesting is the spectral tiara thing that Agatha's mother displayed when using her magic. I suppose it's a thing now that I think about it! Wanda, Enchantress, Snowbird, Arcanna and I'm sure others, mystical women of Marvel do like that head gear.
posted by jason_steakums at 4:55 PM on February 26, 2021 [7 favorites]
Damn, Hahn and Olsen are absolutely killing it. No way this show works if those two aren't bringing their A game and then some.
So we know Hayward is a total a-hole and all, but...how does he say something like "Not everyone has the power to bring their soulmate back online/ to life" to Wanda at a time when all even people with the highest levels of clearance would have known about her was that she had some telekinetic and powerful but not Omega level (ie, Charles Xavier level) telepathic abilities? It seems like he knows way, way more than he has any right to know.
Even aside from the goading her to apply her powers in a way that no one would have suspected she could do, I would have thought that most people outside of the Avengers wouldn't even have known that she and Vision had a thing going on. I don't think even all the Avengers know! Seems like something's up there.
posted by lord_wolf at 5:15 PM on February 26, 2021 [6 favorites]
So we know Hayward is a total a-hole and all, but...how does he say something like "Not everyone has the power to bring their soulmate back online/ to life" to Wanda at a time when all even people with the highest levels of clearance would have known about her was that she had some telekinetic and powerful but not Omega level (ie, Charles Xavier level) telepathic abilities? It seems like he knows way, way more than he has any right to know.
Even aside from the goading her to apply her powers in a way that no one would have suspected she could do, I would have thought that most people outside of the Avengers wouldn't even have known that she and Vision had a thing going on. I don't think even all the Avengers know! Seems like something's up there.
posted by lord_wolf at 5:15 PM on February 26, 2021 [6 favorites]
Just dropping in to say WOW what an entertaining hour of television
posted by Rinku at 6:08 PM on February 26, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Rinku at 6:08 PM on February 26, 2021 [1 favorite]
Loved the "Salem witch trial" as a "trial held by Salem witches" opening.
"we practice english as a family on movie night" is such a cute way of doing it
Yep, loved that. And it explains why she is specifically up on American sitcom history/culture. [My wife grew up in Japan, and is not familiar with much US culture before ~2014 at all except movies from the 80's/90's, because her family loved watching American movies growing up. Apparently this made it harder for her to connect with classmates and such because none of them watched them, but unexpectedly came in handy decades later when we met. But she won't understand the sitcom connection in Wandavision, because she's never even heard of older American sitcoms].
posted by thefoxgod at 6:24 PM on February 26, 2021 [3 favorites]
"we practice english as a family on movie night" is such a cute way of doing it
Yep, loved that. And it explains why she is specifically up on American sitcom history/culture. [My wife grew up in Japan, and is not familiar with much US culture before ~2014 at all except movies from the 80's/90's, because her family loved watching American movies growing up. Apparently this made it harder for her to connect with classmates and such because none of them watched them, but unexpectedly came in handy decades later when we met. But she won't understand the sitcom connection in Wandavision, because she's never even heard of older American sitcoms].
posted by thefoxgod at 6:24 PM on February 26, 2021 [3 favorites]
It's not entirely clear that Sparky was ever a real dog, as opposed to a construct created specifically to make Wanda deal with a death. She's been trying to get Wanda to address her issues and forcing a Very Special Episode where Wanda has to explain about mortality to the boys is about the right level of escalation for that state of the process. When that makes some progress but not quite enough, then Agatha escalated a step further to Fietro.
I'm also not inclined to take Agatha All Along as literal truth. I'm not sure what we saw this week qualified as "too late to fix anything". The sitcom theming is coming from Wanda, not Agatha, so it's what Wanda was surmising, not necessarily Agatha's unfiltered view of events.
posted by Karmakaze at 6:28 PM on February 26, 2021 [12 favorites]
I'm also not inclined to take Agatha All Along as literal truth. I'm not sure what we saw this week qualified as "too late to fix anything". The sitcom theming is coming from Wanda, not Agatha, so it's what Wanda was surmising, not necessarily Agatha's unfiltered view of events.
posted by Karmakaze at 6:28 PM on February 26, 2021 [12 favorites]
I've seen some complaints about "but that wouldn't have been on DVD when Wanda was that age!" and such and it's like ... that's not how memory works (same with the TV still being on and playing the show after the bombing). I don't think what we saw was meant to be the actual reality of what happened but how Wanda remembered it. And I think that's important. This is her story and how she's telling it. (But that doesn't make those things not true. Wanda's an unreliable narrator but there's no malice in it.)
I also don't think the "Agatha All Along" song is supposed to be 100% real. Partially, I think it's just a gift for the audience but I also agree that could be Wanda just trying to reframe what she thought was happening into something that made sense to her.
posted by edencosmic at 6:39 PM on February 26, 2021 [6 favorites]
I also don't think the "Agatha All Along" song is supposed to be 100% real. Partially, I think it's just a gift for the audience but I also agree that could be Wanda just trying to reframe what she thought was happening into something that made sense to her.
posted by edencosmic at 6:39 PM on February 26, 2021 [6 favorites]
Yeah, those specific episodes may not have been available (but according to MCU wiki it would have been 1999 in that scene [Wanda was born in 1989, and she was 10 when that happened], and DVDs were certainly a thing in 1999, so it's not crazy anachronistic).
posted by thefoxgod at 6:51 PM on February 26, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by thefoxgod at 6:51 PM on February 26, 2021 [1 favorite]
The mechanics are *really* not the point, but to the extent I thought about it, I assumed all the theme songs were Wanda's subconscious expressing feelings through the language of American sitcoms. So Agatha comes and cackles and announces she's an evil manipulative literal witch and Wanda, horrified, produces a theme song for that new show that she's now a supporting character in.
It doesn't make less sense than anything else.
posted by mark k at 6:59 PM on February 26, 2021 [7 favorites]
It doesn't make less sense than anything else.
posted by mark k at 6:59 PM on February 26, 2021 [7 favorites]
I think people who consider the Real Westview to be in especially bad shape would be shocked to see small-town America in the corn and rust belts. Probably other areas too but that's the part I know well.
posted by traveler_ at 7:09 PM on February 26, 2021 [18 favorites]
posted by traveler_ at 7:09 PM on February 26, 2021 [18 favorites]
I didn't register that Westview was supposed to look "bad." I thought it looked like... a town.
posted by escabeche at 7:28 PM on February 26, 2021 [10 favorites]
posted by escabeche at 7:28 PM on February 26, 2021 [10 favorites]
I'm confused about the witness Jimmy Woo had in Westfield is real or a Hayward fabrication like the corpse-stealing footage to get Woo there -- but did Hayward want Woo there? Or are we just supposed to take it as luck that Woo's witness happened to be in the town Wanda hexxed?
posted by escabeche at 7:30 PM on February 26, 2021
posted by escabeche at 7:30 PM on February 26, 2021
Also, we now know how Wanda was so familiar with Dick Van Dyke and Bewitched but I still find it very unclear when she would have been watching Malcolm in the Middle.
posted by escabeche at 7:38 PM on February 26, 2021
posted by escabeche at 7:38 PM on February 26, 2021
escabeche, she was watching it in the Avengers compound in the scene with Vision.
posted by cosmic owl at 7:42 PM on February 26, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by cosmic owl at 7:42 PM on February 26, 2021 [4 favorites]
Specifically the scene from this episode is cited in the MCU wiki:
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:48 PM on February 26, 2021 [2 favorites]
Still grieving the loss of her brother, Maximoff, who was all alone in a new place, would watch sitcoms in her bedroom to comfort herself. When she sensed Vision on the other side of the wall, he entered, apologizing for intruding, but she asked him to sit next to her and watch TV.As well, during part of Civil War she is under default house arrest for an indefinite time.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:48 PM on February 26, 2021 [2 favorites]
I think we have to assume that after the Snap, the Avengers cast a wide net looking for information about what Thanos had done, which involved telling a bunch of people everything they knew about the Stones. The stuff about the Mind Stone, including how it related to Vision, why they were in Wakanda, why they thought Wanda had the power to destroy it, and why she didn't would all be key parts of that story.
Also Hayward claimed to have knowledge about Vision's will, which would have mentioned Wanda. So I think it makes sense that he would know of her relationship and also know that she wields the largest known remaining portion of the Mind Stone power that gave Vision life. So that could explain why he thought she might be able to revive Vision. He has probably spent the last five years swearing at scientists telling him, "But sir, without the Mind Stone it's just not possible."
posted by straight at 8:07 PM on February 26, 2021 [4 favorites]
Also Hayward claimed to have knowledge about Vision's will, which would have mentioned Wanda. So I think it makes sense that he would know of her relationship and also know that she wields the largest known remaining portion of the Mind Stone power that gave Vision life. So that could explain why he thought she might be able to revive Vision. He has probably spent the last five years swearing at scientists telling him, "But sir, without the Mind Stone it's just not possible."
posted by straight at 8:07 PM on February 26, 2021 [4 favorites]
she was watching it in the Avengers compound in the scene with Vision.
Malcolm in the Middle was also in the suitcase her father brought home.
posted by synecdoche at 8:18 PM on February 26, 2021 [1 favorite]
Malcolm in the Middle was also in the suitcase her father brought home.
posted by synecdoche at 8:18 PM on February 26, 2021 [1 favorite]
So we know Hayward is a total a-hole and all, but...how does he say something like "Not everyone has the power to bring their soulmate back online/ to life" to Wanda at a time when all even people with the highest levels of clearance would have known about her was that she had some telekinetic and powerful but not Omega level (ie, Charles Xavier level) telepathic abilities?.
I don't know if Hayward was expecting Wanda's magic to be the answer so much as that Wanda might know the secret of rebooting Vision, like she might have an extra battery pack at home for emergencies or something. Hayward probably wasn't saying that because of Wanda's powers, he was saying that because he was imagining Vision as a machine, not a person. Because he's a dick.
posted by dinty_moore at 8:22 PM on February 26, 2021 [5 favorites]
I don't know if Hayward was expecting Wanda's magic to be the answer so much as that Wanda might know the secret of rebooting Vision, like she might have an extra battery pack at home for emergencies or something. Hayward probably wasn't saying that because of Wanda's powers, he was saying that because he was imagining Vision as a machine, not a person. Because he's a dick.
posted by dinty_moore at 8:22 PM on February 26, 2021 [5 favorites]
The real explanation, of course, is that they have decided for economy of storytelling that Jimmy, Darcy, and Hayward know most of what the audience knows about from the previous movies. Hoping we remember what happened is asking a lot. Asking us to keep track of which characters know less than we do would be ridiculous.
posted by straight at 8:23 PM on February 26, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by straight at 8:23 PM on February 26, 2021 [5 favorites]
I’m having a real hard time understanding Hayward’s involvement here. I mean, if Wanda didn’t actually steal Vision’s body, wtf are Hayward and his troops camped outside the Hex acting like they’re coming to take Vision back? If his only reason to be there is to get some power to bring WhiteVision to life, why antagonize Wanda so much? There’s a lot here that just isn’t adding up, even using comic book maths.
posted by Thorzdad at 8:32 PM on February 26, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Thorzdad at 8:32 PM on February 26, 2021 [1 favorite]
I think Agatha is probably chaotic neutral, but am prepared to be wrong. I think she wants to know how Wanda's magic works and how to use it to increase her own power. But I don't think she's interested in harming Wanda if she can avoid it. (I'm assuming her sucking the life force out of a coven of witches is misdirection; they probably had it coming.) This conviction might be largely based on my desire to get more Kathryn Hahn in future MCU productions, which seems more likely if she is not a full on villain. More a Loki type.
Wanda just bursting with grief in the foundation of that home is a visual that is going to stick with me. Vision's description of grief as love preserving was lovely, and Wanda tearing up at not being able to feel Vision in his disassembled body was also wrenching. But Wanda collapsing and then the wave of her grief magic just flowing out and taking shape as the hex - wow.
posted by the primroses were over at 8:40 PM on February 26, 2021 [5 favorites]
Wanda just bursting with grief in the foundation of that home is a visual that is going to stick with me. Vision's description of grief as love preserving was lovely, and Wanda tearing up at not being able to feel Vision in his disassembled body was also wrenching. But Wanda collapsing and then the wave of her grief magic just flowing out and taking shape as the hex - wow.
posted by the primroses were over at 8:40 PM on February 26, 2021 [5 favorites]
Wanda still has thousands of mind controlled hostages even if you don't factor in whatever's going on with the Vision inside the hex. That's a big enough problem to merit military intervention.
posted by fomhar at 8:43 PM on February 26, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by fomhar at 8:43 PM on February 26, 2021 [3 favorites]
I have to imagine in the wake of the Snap someone like Cap would decide that they need to tell the world exactly what just happened. Like certainly some details would be withheld but even stuff like Vision and his fate would probably be put out there and dissected in the media as people try to grapple with trauma by fixating on every bit of information they can get. I bet most people know the gist at least.
If his only reason to be there is to get some power to bring WhiteVision to life, why antagonize Wanda so much?
I've been thinking about this too! There's a version of this where he activates white Vision and then just... leaves. And certainly it would be a little disappointing to have no resolution there, but also it would make the most sense. Why throw your fancy new roboweapon at the one person you know has power levels capable of dealing with him, who would then be guaranteed to come and deal with you next?
posted by jason_steakums at 8:45 PM on February 26, 2021 [2 favorites]
If his only reason to be there is to get some power to bring WhiteVision to life, why antagonize Wanda so much?
I've been thinking about this too! There's a version of this where he activates white Vision and then just... leaves. And certainly it would be a little disappointing to have no resolution there, but also it would make the most sense. Why throw your fancy new roboweapon at the one person you know has power levels capable of dealing with him, who would then be guaranteed to come and deal with you next?
posted by jason_steakums at 8:45 PM on February 26, 2021 [2 favorites]
My main grind with the sitcom format was that they'd eventually feel the need to explain the sitcom format, and eight episodes in that was going to be a stretch to be coming from any of the characters available, and indeed, it kind of was for me. I'm not saying it's a stretch to make Wanda a sitcom fan--a smarter person than me would have something more interesting to say about the story choice of a Sokovian woman, especially this particular Sokovian woman, mentally escaping into seventy years of American cultural exports, but it is sure A Choice coming from Marvel/Disney.
I like Agatha so far, I appreciate the extremely hilarious implication that Pietro is literally just some guy, it's cool if Marvel's going in on magic, but I wish they had spent more time on the humans in the Salem intro scene and less on the dramatic groaning while blue lasers fight purple lasers (but I feel that way in most superhero fights.) To be clear I am extremely cool with if they want to put some money and attention on an interesting, complex woman over 40, but I never need a reason for Agatha to have her own villain song and at this point would prefer to never get one.
(I know I know but "ex-volunteer for a terrorist organization, also extremely into sitcoms" just intuitively sounds like a Kathryn Hahn character)
So like is the idea that cutting Vision up took five years? Or they saw her pull into the parking lot and were like, "the soulmate's here, quick get the hacksaws"? At some point did Wanda ask the other Avengers where she can visit Vision's grave and somebody had to admit they let SWORD have him? What does the Wakandan government think about all this?
(I still don't...quite get what Haywhatever was trying to achieve with that whole display, if it's "terrorize this extremely powerful and distraught stranger to get the plot going" okay I guess)
posted by jameaterblues at 8:48 PM on February 26, 2021 [6 favorites]
I like Agatha so far, I appreciate the extremely hilarious implication that Pietro is literally just some guy, it's cool if Marvel's going in on magic, but I wish they had spent more time on the humans in the Salem intro scene and less on the dramatic groaning while blue lasers fight purple lasers (but I feel that way in most superhero fights.) To be clear I am extremely cool with if they want to put some money and attention on an interesting, complex woman over 40, but I never need a reason for Agatha to have her own villain song and at this point would prefer to never get one.
(I know I know but "ex-volunteer for a terrorist organization, also extremely into sitcoms" just intuitively sounds like a Kathryn Hahn character)
So like is the idea that cutting Vision up took five years? Or they saw her pull into the parking lot and were like, "the soulmate's here, quick get the hacksaws"? At some point did Wanda ask the other Avengers where she can visit Vision's grave and somebody had to admit they let SWORD have him? What does the Wakandan government think about all this?
(I still don't...quite get what Haywhatever was trying to achieve with that whole display, if it's "terrorize this extremely powerful and distraught stranger to get the plot going" okay I guess)
posted by jameaterblues at 8:48 PM on February 26, 2021 [6 favorites]
Another great episode, and one that specifically does a lot to not only patch in some of the missing info in this series, but also suggest how we got from the flirty-but-still-not-quite-on-the-same-side Wanda and Vision of Captain America: Civil War to the on-the-run-couple-who-are-almost-certainly-sleeping-together of Avengers: Infinity War. The usual random bits:
- WRT White Vision: the comics storyline came out of a number of years of Marvel Comics running storylines in which the government in various forms didn't really trust superheroes and often tried to subvert or co-opt their power and roles, starting with the Avengers being run by the NSA via an agent named Henry Peter Gyrich (who had a brief role in the first X-Men movie); this was a couple of decades before the comics' "Civil War" storyline which had a lot of the same themes and plot points. SHIELD tried to take over Stark Industries, via the unsexy route of a hostile stock takeover, because of their concern about Tony being unstable due to his worsening alcoholism; there as in the MCU, they were very dependent on Stark tech. (They didn't know that he was Iron Man, but he still destroyed a lot of his spare suits to keep them out of SHIELD hands.) Captain America was briefly dismissed by the American government and his shield and costume, and even the right to call himself "Captain America", was taken away; he briefly adopted a darker costume and alternate shield and called himself "The Captain" (somewhat reminiscent of his costume in Avengers: Infinity War), and the costume, shield and name were given to a former supervillain named John Walker. When Steve got his title and stuff back, Walker got the alternate costume and shield and was called USAgent. A version of that character has already been shown in the previews for The Falcon and the Winter Soldier, the next D+ MCU show to premiere.
And Vision got disassembled because of a storyline in the Avengers where he went benevolent Skynet and tried to take over everything, not unlike the Age of Ultron Ultron. (The comics Ultron has a vastly different background that involves crazy Oedipal stuff focused on his creator--not Tony Stark but Henry Pym, yes, the Ant-Man guy.) So, the gummint took him apart, and when they reassembled him, he was all pale and robotic. I'm not sure what happened after that, because I started to become disinterested in mainstream superhero comics; this was around the time that Watchmen came out, and did the whole "the government doesn't want any superheroes except the ones that they can control" thing so much better. (Here, by the way, is a shot from the comics of their disassembled Vision. The other woman in the shot is Mockingbird; a version of her has appeared in Agents of SHIELD.)
- I'm not sure where on the D&D alignment chart Agatha fits, and it seems pretty presumptuous to assume anything at this point. At over three hundred years old, she's probably one of the oldest MCU characters that we know of; Doctor Strange's Ancient One would probably have been older, but I can't think of anyone else. There's an interesting parallel there with her coven trying to kill her, and failing, and Hayward trying the same with Wanda. Especially with her and her coven having been around so long, the odds of Doctor Strange getting involved seem a lot stronger.
- My money is on Hayward originally intending to strip Vision for vibranium and whatever else he could salvage, but changing his mind once it became obvious that Wanda had gone seriously rogue. I wonder if Helen Cho (who was one of Vision's creators) was involved in his demi-resurrection. I also wonder if the surviving Avengers would launch Hayward into the sun if they knew that he was trying to resurrect the android who was almost Vision without fully knowing what he was doing (which he almost certainly doesn't, because he's not Tony Stark or Bruce Banner).
- Still thinking/hoping that Fietro is here to stay.
posted by Halloween Jack at 9:10 PM on February 26, 2021 [2 favorites]
- WRT White Vision: the comics storyline came out of a number of years of Marvel Comics running storylines in which the government in various forms didn't really trust superheroes and often tried to subvert or co-opt their power and roles, starting with the Avengers being run by the NSA via an agent named Henry Peter Gyrich (who had a brief role in the first X-Men movie); this was a couple of decades before the comics' "Civil War" storyline which had a lot of the same themes and plot points. SHIELD tried to take over Stark Industries, via the unsexy route of a hostile stock takeover, because of their concern about Tony being unstable due to his worsening alcoholism; there as in the MCU, they were very dependent on Stark tech. (They didn't know that he was Iron Man, but he still destroyed a lot of his spare suits to keep them out of SHIELD hands.) Captain America was briefly dismissed by the American government and his shield and costume, and even the right to call himself "Captain America", was taken away; he briefly adopted a darker costume and alternate shield and called himself "The Captain" (somewhat reminiscent of his costume in Avengers: Infinity War), and the costume, shield and name were given to a former supervillain named John Walker. When Steve got his title and stuff back, Walker got the alternate costume and shield and was called USAgent. A version of that character has already been shown in the previews for The Falcon and the Winter Soldier, the next D+ MCU show to premiere.
And Vision got disassembled because of a storyline in the Avengers where he went benevolent Skynet and tried to take over everything, not unlike the Age of Ultron Ultron. (The comics Ultron has a vastly different background that involves crazy Oedipal stuff focused on his creator--not Tony Stark but Henry Pym, yes, the Ant-Man guy.) So, the gummint took him apart, and when they reassembled him, he was all pale and robotic. I'm not sure what happened after that, because I started to become disinterested in mainstream superhero comics; this was around the time that Watchmen came out, and did the whole "the government doesn't want any superheroes except the ones that they can control" thing so much better. (Here, by the way, is a shot from the comics of their disassembled Vision. The other woman in the shot is Mockingbird; a version of her has appeared in Agents of SHIELD.)
- I'm not sure where on the D&D alignment chart Agatha fits, and it seems pretty presumptuous to assume anything at this point. At over three hundred years old, she's probably one of the oldest MCU characters that we know of; Doctor Strange's Ancient One would probably have been older, but I can't think of anyone else. There's an interesting parallel there with her coven trying to kill her, and failing, and Hayward trying the same with Wanda. Especially with her and her coven having been around so long, the odds of Doctor Strange getting involved seem a lot stronger.
- My money is on Hayward originally intending to strip Vision for vibranium and whatever else he could salvage, but changing his mind once it became obvious that Wanda had gone seriously rogue. I wonder if Helen Cho (who was one of Vision's creators) was involved in his demi-resurrection. I also wonder if the surviving Avengers would launch Hayward into the sun if they knew that he was trying to resurrect the android who was almost Vision without fully knowing what he was doing (which he almost certainly doesn't, because he's not Tony Stark or Bruce Banner).
- Still thinking/hoping that Fietro is here to stay.
posted by Halloween Jack at 9:10 PM on February 26, 2021 [2 favorites]
I still think Fiestro is the X-Men other universe Pietro and he was just a good analog for Wanda's real brother -- because he was Wanda's brother in another universe! I have no idea if Agatha has that kind of power, though, but it did seem like Wanda recognized Pietro somewhat, although not entirely. But I think that speaks to "this feels like your brother but he's not your brother" for her. Wanda's lost but I think she would've been like "no, this is not my brother at all" unless something about it felt close enough.
I also like the idea of Agatha mostly being chaotic neutral. She doesn't really care what happens here but she's not evil. I don't think she wants to hurt Wanda -- just share her powers, maybe, or get Wanda to join her side (whatever her side is).
I have read a lot of comics but I really still have no idea how this will all resolve. I love that about this show.
posted by edencosmic at 9:26 PM on February 26, 2021 [3 favorites]
I also like the idea of Agatha mostly being chaotic neutral. She doesn't really care what happens here but she's not evil. I don't think she wants to hurt Wanda -- just share her powers, maybe, or get Wanda to join her side (whatever her side is).
I have read a lot of comics but I really still have no idea how this will all resolve. I love that about this show.
posted by edencosmic at 9:26 PM on February 26, 2021 [3 favorites]
At over three hundred years old, she's probably one of the oldest MCU characters that we know of; Doctor Strange's Ancient One would probably have been older, but I can't think of anyone else.
In Infinity War, Thor tells Rocket he’s 1,500 years old.
So like is the idea that cutting Vision up took five years? Or they saw her pull into the parking lot and were like, "the soulmate's here, quick get the hacksaws"?
I could imagine that it would take five years for SWORD to use legal and extra-legal means to get Vision’s 3-billion-dollars-of-stolen-vibranium corpse from Wakandan soil to the US, especially considering that Wakanda had lost its king, and we all saw the chaos that caused last time.
posted by ejs at 9:31 PM on February 26, 2021 [3 favorites]
In Infinity War, Thor tells Rocket he’s 1,500 years old.
So like is the idea that cutting Vision up took five years? Or they saw her pull into the parking lot and were like, "the soulmate's here, quick get the hacksaws"?
I could imagine that it would take five years for SWORD to use legal and extra-legal means to get Vision’s 3-billion-dollars-of-stolen-vibranium corpse from Wakandan soil to the US, especially considering that Wakanda had lost its king, and we all saw the chaos that caused last time.
posted by ejs at 9:31 PM on February 26, 2021 [3 favorites]
mikelieman,
If we're playing with theories about the Strongman, I'd say in a more comic-book-like universe than what we have here, he would be a version of Simon (Wonder Man) Williams--invulnerability and super strength plus a career as an actor and stuntman seem like they'd map pretty well onto a circus strong man, especially one with strong ties to both Wanda and Vision.
posted by sardonyx at 9:34 PM on February 26, 2021 [1 favorite]
If we're playing with theories about the Strongman, I'd say in a more comic-book-like universe than what we have here, he would be a version of Simon (Wonder Man) Williams--invulnerability and super strength plus a career as an actor and stuntman seem like they'd map pretty well onto a circus strong man, especially one with strong ties to both Wanda and Vision.
posted by sardonyx at 9:34 PM on February 26, 2021 [1 favorite]
Laughed out loud at Hahn's delivery of this line:
"You're supposed to be a myth, a being capable of spontaneous creation. And here you are, using it to make breakfast for dinner."
posted by good in a vacuum at 10:06 PM on February 26, 2021 [11 favorites]
"You're supposed to be a myth, a being capable of spontaneous creation. And here you are, using it to make breakfast for dinner."
posted by good in a vacuum at 10:06 PM on February 26, 2021 [11 favorites]
Another good Agnes line, with some meta commentary:
"Woooof. That accent. Really comes and goes, doesn't it?"
posted by good in a vacuum at 10:07 PM on February 26, 2021 [17 favorites]
"Woooof. That accent. Really comes and goes, doesn't it?"
posted by good in a vacuum at 10:07 PM on February 26, 2021 [17 favorites]
In Infinity War, Thor tells Rocket he’s 1,500 years old.
Duh, of course. I forgot the guy who has a day of the week named after him.
posted by Halloween Jack at 10:28 PM on February 26, 2021 [11 favorites]
Duh, of course. I forgot the guy who has a day of the week named after him.
posted by Halloween Jack at 10:28 PM on February 26, 2021 [11 favorites]
Westview reminded me strongly of downtown Trenton.
posted by bq at 10:52 PM on February 26, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by bq at 10:52 PM on February 26, 2021 [1 favorite]
We called it "starting the story at chapter 3" and then backtracking to fill in the gaps.
The specific term is 'In Media Res'.
posted by FatherDagon at 11:17 PM on February 26, 2021 [2 favorites]
The specific term is 'In Media Res'.
posted by FatherDagon at 11:17 PM on February 26, 2021 [2 favorites]
Metafilter: It doesn't make less sense than anything else.
posted by Paul Slade at 11:56 PM on February 26, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by Paul Slade at 11:56 PM on February 26, 2021 [2 favorites]
Yeah, those specific episodes may not have been available
I actually assumed they were pirated DVDs, which on reflection would be a fairly weird choice for Disney to show.
posted by scorbet at 5:17 AM on February 27, 2021 [13 favorites]
I actually assumed they were pirated DVDs, which on reflection would be a fairly weird choice for Disney to show.
posted by scorbet at 5:17 AM on February 27, 2021 [13 favorites]
I dunno about you folks but I had a rabbit as a kid and it definitely did not mind eating the occasional grasshopper (but maybe it was just kind of a mean rabbit)
posted by DoctorFedora at 5:24 AM on February 27, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by DoctorFedora at 5:24 AM on February 27, 2021 [2 favorites]
"I also don't think the "Agatha All Along" song is supposed to be 100% real. Partially, I think it's just a gift for the audience but I also agree that could be Wanda just trying to reframe what she thought was happening into something that made sense to her."
Right. If, as this episode finally makes clear, Wanda really did do all this by herself (as opposed to say being thrust into it by some outside big bad and seduced into playing along so she can have the life she wanted w Vision) then the openings are all coming from her. So just as she's beginning to wobble on her insistence that this is all normal and real, and starting to wonder what's going on and who's messing with her, along comes the Agatha reveal, and so Agatha All Along is her "realizing" that and perhaps leaping to conclusions.
I'm also in the Sparky wasn't a real dog to begin with camp. Personally, I think he was Senor Scratchy in disguise. He's clearly not an actual rabbit. I suspect he can look like whatever he wants to.
The big question, of course, is what happens to Vision and the twins when this is all over. None of them are real. We've already seen that Vision can't exist outside the hex. Unless they do something weird and hand-wavy (and these are comics we're talking about), they all probably fade out again in the end.
posted by Naberius at 5:50 AM on February 27, 2021 [4 favorites]
Right. If, as this episode finally makes clear, Wanda really did do all this by herself (as opposed to say being thrust into it by some outside big bad and seduced into playing along so she can have the life she wanted w Vision) then the openings are all coming from her. So just as she's beginning to wobble on her insistence that this is all normal and real, and starting to wonder what's going on and who's messing with her, along comes the Agatha reveal, and so Agatha All Along is her "realizing" that and perhaps leaping to conclusions.
I'm also in the Sparky wasn't a real dog to begin with camp. Personally, I think he was Senor Scratchy in disguise. He's clearly not an actual rabbit. I suspect he can look like whatever he wants to.
The big question, of course, is what happens to Vision and the twins when this is all over. None of them are real. We've already seen that Vision can't exist outside the hex. Unless they do something weird and hand-wavy (and these are comics we're talking about), they all probably fade out again in the end.
posted by Naberius at 5:50 AM on February 27, 2021 [4 favorites]
Loved the "Salem witch trial" as a "trial held by Salem witches" opening.
Honestly that was probably the most boring possible version of something that could be described as a 17th-century, ten-on-one, witch battle.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 7:00 AM on February 27, 2021 [11 favorites]
Honestly that was probably the most boring possible version of something that could be described as a 17th-century, ten-on-one, witch battle.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 7:00 AM on February 27, 2021 [11 favorites]
I actually assumed they were pirated DVDs, which on reflection would be a fairly weird choice for Disney to show.
Right, I sort of got the implication that dad was selling them (and, not from wholesale, obvs), but still sadly had a lot left over and didn't make much money today, which happily meant family TV night? I'd have to rewatch that scene to get the exact quotes.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 7:03 AM on February 27, 2021 [4 favorites]
Right, I sort of got the implication that dad was selling them (and, not from wholesale, obvs), but still sadly had a lot left over and didn't make much money today, which happily meant family TV night? I'd have to rewatch that scene to get the exact quotes.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 7:03 AM on February 27, 2021 [4 favorites]
The other interpretation seems to be that he was selling off their treasured collection of DVDs to get money to survive. I rewatched the scene earlier and it could be either.
posted by scorbet at 7:32 AM on February 27, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by scorbet at 7:32 AM on February 27, 2021 [1 favorite]
Malcolm in the Middle was also in the suitcase her father brought home.
I think the issue may have been that the DVDs are in the suitcase a year before the show first was produced. But then I remind myself that Earth-199999 is a works where a Norse god, a massive green rage monster, a thawed WWII super soldier and a genius billionaire philanthropist playboy in a flying iron suit once fought an alien army spilling out of a wormhole a quarter-mile above midtown Manhattan, so maybe TV production schedules turned out a little different?
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:42 AM on February 27, 2021 [18 favorites]
I think the issue may have been that the DVDs are in the suitcase a year before the show first was produced. But then I remind myself that Earth-199999 is a works where a Norse god, a massive green rage monster, a thawed WWII super soldier and a genius billionaire philanthropist playboy in a flying iron suit once fought an alien army spilling out of a wormhole a quarter-mile above midtown Manhattan, so maybe TV production schedules turned out a little different?
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:42 AM on February 27, 2021 [18 favorites]
I want to focus on what Vision-in-Westfield is. Up until now we thought he was an actual reanimation of Vision's body, an autonomous being. But that's out the window now. We see Wanda literally construct him along with the rest of the town. So he's entirely a manifestation of Wanda's memories and power? If so, how does he have free will and true sentience? How does he doubt Wanda? I liked that Wanda spent a lot of time creating him; like 10 seconds compared to half a second for other houses, etc. So maybe he's a particularly detailed construct. Still can he exist outside of Wanda's current manifested psychic break?
I pegged Agatha as Lawful Evil. She's definitely evil; not only did she kill Sparky but also she's threatening the life of Wanda's children. At best Agatha knows they aren't "real" children (although my question about Vision gets doubled here..) Even so she's torturing Wanda with the idea of harming her children. That's pure Evil.
OTOH Agatha also seems completely disciplined and clear and behaving via various codes. In her origin story she only kills her coven as a very last resort after pleading and trying to work within their system of laws. She keeps invoking all this baroque structure of witchcraft in the MCU, the way the runes work etc. She seems quite disciplined in her purpose with being in Westview, with interacting with Wanda. That all makes her Lawful. Just it's her law, and the laws of witches.
I was also struck when Agatha said "it's Chaos Magic!" and I said "it's what now?" That's another trope from the funnybooks we're supposed to know, I guess. The Marvel wiki has a decent summary.
posted by Nelson at 7:55 AM on February 27, 2021 [3 favorites]
I pegged Agatha as Lawful Evil. She's definitely evil; not only did she kill Sparky but also she's threatening the life of Wanda's children. At best Agatha knows they aren't "real" children (although my question about Vision gets doubled here..) Even so she's torturing Wanda with the idea of harming her children. That's pure Evil.
OTOH Agatha also seems completely disciplined and clear and behaving via various codes. In her origin story she only kills her coven as a very last resort after pleading and trying to work within their system of laws. She keeps invoking all this baroque structure of witchcraft in the MCU, the way the runes work etc. She seems quite disciplined in her purpose with being in Westview, with interacting with Wanda. That all makes her Lawful. Just it's her law, and the laws of witches.
I was also struck when Agatha said "it's Chaos Magic!" and I said "it's what now?" That's another trope from the funnybooks we're supposed to know, I guess. The Marvel wiki has a decent summary.
posted by Nelson at 7:55 AM on February 27, 2021 [3 favorites]
I actually assumed they were pirated DVDs, which on reflection would be a fairly weird choice for Disney to show.
This is a really dorky detail I noticed but the DVD player was a Mintek. Back in the day, these were very popular Chinese-made DVD players because they were region-free, meaning you could play DVDs from any country. So my takeaway was that Sokovia didn't have a very active pirating market but did have a thriving region-free DVD player scene because obviously, Sokovians were passionate about world cinema and weren't going to let international distribution rights get in their way.
posted by cazoo at 8:12 AM on February 27, 2021 [30 favorites]
This is a really dorky detail I noticed but the DVD player was a Mintek. Back in the day, these were very popular Chinese-made DVD players because they were region-free, meaning you could play DVDs from any country. So my takeaway was that Sokovia didn't have a very active pirating market but did have a thriving region-free DVD player scene because obviously, Sokovians were passionate about world cinema and weren't going to let international distribution rights get in their way.
posted by cazoo at 8:12 AM on February 27, 2021 [30 favorites]
I am really enjoying our discussion of the minutiae of how DVD distribution (legal or illegal) would work in a fictional Eastern European country on an alternate Earth in 1999. Well done, Metafilter.
posted by emjaybee at 8:26 AM on February 27, 2021 [53 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 8:26 AM on February 27, 2021 [53 favorites]
The big question, of course, is what happens to Vision and the twins when this is all over. None of them are real. We've already seen that Vision can't exist outside the hex.
Here’s my prediction: White Vision, if he’s like White Vision from the comics, has Real Vision’s memories (stored in his memory banks), but none of his emotions or personality (which were provided by the Mind Stone). Hex Vision (created by Mind Stone energies, note he was yellow when being formed while the rest of the Hex was red) has Real Vision’s personality and emotions, but no memories from before he was created. At some point Hex Vision will phase into White Vision and they’ll combine, reuniting Vision’s personality with his memories and body, and we’ll have Real Vision back. Yay!
Don’t know about the twins. Fingers crossed they become Master Pandemonium’s arms.
posted by ejs at 9:09 AM on February 27, 2021 [13 favorites]
Here’s my prediction: White Vision, if he’s like White Vision from the comics, has Real Vision’s memories (stored in his memory banks), but none of his emotions or personality (which were provided by the Mind Stone). Hex Vision (created by Mind Stone energies, note he was yellow when being formed while the rest of the Hex was red) has Real Vision’s personality and emotions, but no memories from before he was created. At some point Hex Vision will phase into White Vision and they’ll combine, reuniting Vision’s personality with his memories and body, and we’ll have Real Vision back. Yay!
Don’t know about the twins. Fingers crossed they become Master Pandemonium’s arms.
posted by ejs at 9:09 AM on February 27, 2021 [13 favorites]
The "Fietro" line demonstrated a much more nuanced understanding of fandom conventions than Disney+ displayed with "Don't you dare call that adorable green creature Baby Yoda, and no you can't have a stuffed one in time for Christmas."
The real Westview registered to me as "a nice quiet town" more than anything, not a depressed backwater. I admit that spending time in the Rust Belt may affect your perspective on that scene. I was really surprised by its negative interpretation here; Vision seems to have had a pretty good understanding of what Wanda wants out of life, and a safe quiet life in a nice normal American house in a perfectly average American town seems pretty well in keeping with that based on what we've seen.
posted by tchemgrrl at 9:12 AM on February 27, 2021 [7 favorites]
The real Westview registered to me as "a nice quiet town" more than anything, not a depressed backwater. I admit that spending time in the Rust Belt may affect your perspective on that scene. I was really surprised by its negative interpretation here; Vision seems to have had a pretty good understanding of what Wanda wants out of life, and a safe quiet life in a nice normal American house in a perfectly average American town seems pretty well in keeping with that based on what we've seen.
posted by tchemgrrl at 9:12 AM on February 27, 2021 [7 favorites]
Lovely to see YE OLDE SALEM in 17th century Massachusetts Bay colony with the traditional scenic concrete spillover dam in the background.
posted by rmd1023 at 9:53 AM on February 27, 2021 [21 favorites]
posted by rmd1023 at 9:53 AM on February 27, 2021 [21 favorites]
At some point Hex Vision will phase into White Vision and they’ll combine, reuniting Vision’s personality with his memories and body, and we’ll have Real Vision back. Yay!
I think having weird red Hex energy from the drone being the thing that powers white Vision is for sure pointing in that direction, because then Hex Vision technically will still be inside the Hex since the white body is infused with it.
It does raise some questions! Does Wanda have to mentally maintain the Hex energy in his new body or does residual Hex energy just stay put? If so is the real Westview just going to stay saturated with it? Maybe Agatha absorbs it like she did the coven's magic.
Also if this new Vision ends up knowing he's just a particularly detailed memory of the real Vision, oh boy are he and Wanda going to have some awful existential fears about how real his free will is, especially in regards to his love for her. But maybe he's more than a memory! Maybe when Wanda tried to pull out the stone she absorbed the real him and that's what this new Vision is? And Thanos killed a version that branched off when he rolled back time? The energy he formed from was that same yellow.
posted by jason_steakums at 10:16 AM on February 27, 2021 [3 favorites]
I think having weird red Hex energy from the drone being the thing that powers white Vision is for sure pointing in that direction, because then Hex Vision technically will still be inside the Hex since the white body is infused with it.
It does raise some questions! Does Wanda have to mentally maintain the Hex energy in his new body or does residual Hex energy just stay put? If so is the real Westview just going to stay saturated with it? Maybe Agatha absorbs it like she did the coven's magic.
Also if this new Vision ends up knowing he's just a particularly detailed memory of the real Vision, oh boy are he and Wanda going to have some awful existential fears about how real his free will is, especially in regards to his love for her. But maybe he's more than a memory! Maybe when Wanda tried to pull out the stone she absorbed the real him and that's what this new Vision is? And Thanos killed a version that branched off when he rolled back time? The energy he formed from was that same yellow.
posted by jason_steakums at 10:16 AM on February 27, 2021 [3 favorites]
I admit that spending time in the Rust Belt may affect your perspective on that scene.
As a non-American, the place did seem run-down: brownish-grayish colors, dead leaves everywhere, dried plants, faded signs and posters, few people in the streets, most of them looking unhappy or anxious. This may be how normal Rust Belt towns actually look, but it's strikingly different from how small towns are usually shown in US movies.
posted by elgilito at 10:32 AM on February 27, 2021 [4 favorites]
As a non-American, the place did seem run-down: brownish-grayish colors, dead leaves everywhere, dried plants, faded signs and posters, few people in the streets, most of them looking unhappy or anxious. This may be how normal Rust Belt towns actually look, but it's strikingly different from how small towns are usually shown in US movies.
posted by elgilito at 10:32 AM on February 27, 2021 [4 favorites]
The idea that Wanda would have wanted to settle down in a small town in the USA is kinda out of nowhere. She's from Europe and only spent time in America secluded in Stark tower or the Avengers compound. The day before he died, Vision was trying to convince her to ditch their opposing Civil War teams and stay with him in Edinburgh.
Maybe what he meant was that he had a place in America they could run away to. Doesn't seem like a safe place to hide from Stark, but Tony had a hard time keeping up with JARVIS even before Thor fused him with 86% of Ultron and the Mind Stone, so maybe Vision could have pulled it off.
posted by straight at 10:45 AM on February 27, 2021 [1 favorite]
Maybe what he meant was that he had a place in America they could run away to. Doesn't seem like a safe place to hide from Stark, but Tony had a hard time keeping up with JARVIS even before Thor fused him with 86% of Ultron and the Mind Stone, so maybe Vision could have pulled it off.
posted by straight at 10:45 AM on February 27, 2021 [1 favorite]
>This may be how normal Rust Belt towns actually look, but it's strikingly different from how small towns are usually shown in US movies.It's the difference between fast food and what ever it is that food stylists do for advertising purposes.
posted by mce at 10:57 AM on February 27, 2021 [7 favorites]
One of my least favorite tropes in media (made all the more annoying by its omnipresence in the sorts of things I generally enjoy) is the idea that 17th century Salem was full of actual witches doing actual magic. What took place then and there was a crime against humanity and playing with a winky "ok, but what if the wild delusion that drove this violent mob was in fact correct" narrative is offensive and irresponsible.
Other than that, fun episode.
posted by Parasite Unseen at 11:00 AM on February 27, 2021 [30 favorites]
Other than that, fun episode.
posted by Parasite Unseen at 11:00 AM on February 27, 2021 [30 favorites]
Just wanted to note that the kid they hired to play young Wanda was PERFECTLY cast. When she was watching the show and smiling she looked exactly like Elizabeth Olsen.
posted by wabbittwax at 11:19 AM on February 27, 2021 [10 favorites]
posted by wabbittwax at 11:19 AM on February 27, 2021 [10 favorites]
I could imagine that it would take five years for SWORD to use legal and extra-legal means to get Vision’s 3-billion-dollars-of-stolen-vibranium corpse from Wakandan soil to the US, especially considering that Wakanda had lost its king, and we all saw the chaos that caused last time.
I have to imagine the Avengers on-site after the battle claimed his remains, 'cause otherwise I just don't see Wakanda handing Vision over to the US government. That's crazy. But somehow going from Avengers custody, whatever that looks like, to gov't hands makes sense, and also takes some time. Then there's study, there's proposals of what to do, approval of those proposals, also figuring out wtf tools would actually do the job (and probably making those tools in the first place)... yeah. Five years only seems like a slip-up in the script until you really consider it, and then it makes plenty of sense.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 11:30 AM on February 27, 2021 [3 favorites]
I have to imagine the Avengers on-site after the battle claimed his remains, 'cause otherwise I just don't see Wakanda handing Vision over to the US government. That's crazy. But somehow going from Avengers custody, whatever that looks like, to gov't hands makes sense, and also takes some time. Then there's study, there's proposals of what to do, approval of those proposals, also figuring out wtf tools would actually do the job (and probably making those tools in the first place)... yeah. Five years only seems like a slip-up in the script until you really consider it, and then it makes plenty of sense.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 11:30 AM on February 27, 2021 [3 favorites]
"You're supposed to be a myth, a being capable of spontaneous creation. And here you are, using it to make breakfast for dinner."
Well, it is kind of hard to beat brinner.
posted by MrBadExample at 12:47 PM on February 27, 2021 [1 favorite]
Well, it is kind of hard to beat brinner.
posted by MrBadExample at 12:47 PM on February 27, 2021 [1 favorite]
Parasite Unseen: I am also tired of the trope. I may have literally rolled my eyes when the location text came up on the screen.
posted by rmd1023 at 1:00 PM on February 27, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by rmd1023 at 1:00 PM on February 27, 2021 [1 favorite]
most of them looking unhappy or anxious. This may be how normal Rust Belt towns actually look, but it's strikingly different from how small towns are usually shown in US movies.
On the other hand, most small towns in US movies and/or the IRL Rust Belt don't have the entire population being mind controlled by a traumatized superpowered being. I think that puts a big downer on everyone's mood.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 1:59 PM on February 27, 2021
On the other hand, most small towns in US movies and/or the IRL Rust Belt don't have the entire population being mind controlled by a traumatized superpowered being. I think that puts a big downer on everyone's mood.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 1:59 PM on February 27, 2021
Hayward does say something during the mid-credits scene like "We took this thing apart and put it back together a dozen times."
posted by Ipsifendus at 2:00 PM on February 27, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by Ipsifendus at 2:00 PM on February 27, 2021 [3 favorites]
Agatha might not be evil, but she definitely is insidious. And also perfidious.
posted by 1970s Antihero at 2:24 PM on February 27, 2021 [12 favorites]
posted by 1970s Antihero at 2:24 PM on February 27, 2021 [12 favorites]
The idea that Wanda would have wanted to settle down in a small town in the USA is kinda out of nowhere.
On the other hand, since she has such a lifelong connection to American television shows the idea of her dream being to settle down in Mayberry seems plausible to me.
posted by good in a vacuum at 3:18 PM on February 27, 2021 [11 favorites]
On the other hand, since she has such a lifelong connection to American television shows the idea of her dream being to settle down in Mayberry seems plausible to me.
posted by good in a vacuum at 3:18 PM on February 27, 2021 [11 favorites]
Malcolm in the Middle was also in the suitcase her father brought home.
I think the issue may have been that the DVDs are in the suitcase a year before the show first was produced. But then I remind myself that Earth-199999 is a works where a Norse god, a massive green rage monster, a thawed WWII super soldier and a genius billionaire philanthropist playboy in a flying iron suit once fought an alien army spilling out of a wormhole a quarter-mile above midtown Manhattan, so maybe TV production schedules turned out a little different?
I don't know if today's Marvel still awards No-Prizes for catching mistakes; the criteria for eligibility was changing even back when I was a kid. It used to be that pointing out an error like this was enough to receive one of those treasured empty envelopes. But at some point in the Age of McFarlane Spider-Man, the rules changed to where you both had to catch the mistake, and come up with a reason why it wasn't a mistake. Like, it's not that anyone forgot to color Batroc's boots, it's that his particular hue of yellow-orange doesn't exist in the Negative Zone, that kind of thing. So, I like where your head is at here.
Let's call it canon. For reasons which will be revealed in a later installment, the events of the MCU led to Malcom in the Middle going into production much sooner than on our world. A rewatch of Captain Marvel for clues may be in order, and maybe also Black Panther and Civil War, as those all concern the 1990s of this timeline. T'Chaka went to America, Bucky Barnes was still mind controlled, the Skrulls arrived on Earth, and Carol Danvers left. Did Hydra need to launch Operation: Cranston ASAP? Is Frankie Munoz a Skrull on Earth-199999? Possibly we should start spreading that rumor before all the Secret Invasion casting is locked in.
posted by EatTheWeek at 7:22 PM on February 27, 2021 [8 favorites]
I think the issue may have been that the DVDs are in the suitcase a year before the show first was produced. But then I remind myself that Earth-199999 is a works where a Norse god, a massive green rage monster, a thawed WWII super soldier and a genius billionaire philanthropist playboy in a flying iron suit once fought an alien army spilling out of a wormhole a quarter-mile above midtown Manhattan, so maybe TV production schedules turned out a little different?
I don't know if today's Marvel still awards No-Prizes for catching mistakes; the criteria for eligibility was changing even back when I was a kid. It used to be that pointing out an error like this was enough to receive one of those treasured empty envelopes. But at some point in the Age of McFarlane Spider-Man, the rules changed to where you both had to catch the mistake, and come up with a reason why it wasn't a mistake. Like, it's not that anyone forgot to color Batroc's boots, it's that his particular hue of yellow-orange doesn't exist in the Negative Zone, that kind of thing. So, I like where your head is at here.
Let's call it canon. For reasons which will be revealed in a later installment, the events of the MCU led to Malcom in the Middle going into production much sooner than on our world. A rewatch of Captain Marvel for clues may be in order, and maybe also Black Panther and Civil War, as those all concern the 1990s of this timeline. T'Chaka went to America, Bucky Barnes was still mind controlled, the Skrulls arrived on Earth, and Carol Danvers left. Did Hydra need to launch Operation: Cranston ASAP? Is Frankie Munoz a Skrull on Earth-199999? Possibly we should start spreading that rumor before all the Secret Invasion casting is locked in.
posted by EatTheWeek at 7:22 PM on February 27, 2021 [8 favorites]
The number of witches in the 1695 scene, not counting Agatha's mother, briefly raised my hopes for yet another version of Salem's Seven.
posted by detachd at 7:24 PM on February 27, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by detachd at 7:24 PM on February 27, 2021 [1 favorite]
...it does seem as though the immense power that created Westview came about as a result of Wanda’s grief, possibly mixed with buyer’s remorse.
Dear Ask Metafilter: I bought this house five years ago, but there aren’t any walls, floors, or a roof. How much construction do I really have to do?
For reasons which will be revealed in a later installment, the events of the MCU led to Malcom in the Middle going into production much sooner than on our world.
Look, they shot the X-Files in Canada, and now we’ve learned that they shot MitM in war-torn, fictional Sokovia, which is how the DVD’s were available so early. Bryan Cranston is that good of an actor.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 7:53 PM on February 27, 2021 [9 favorites]
Dear Ask Metafilter: I bought this house five years ago, but there aren’t any walls, floors, or a roof. How much construction do I really have to do?
For reasons which will be revealed in a later installment, the events of the MCU led to Malcom in the Middle going into production much sooner than on our world.
Look, they shot the X-Files in Canada, and now we’ve learned that they shot MitM in war-torn, fictional Sokovia, which is how the DVD’s were available so early. Bryan Cranston is that good of an actor.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 7:53 PM on February 27, 2021 [9 favorites]
The real Westview registered to me as "a nice quiet town" more than anything, not a depressed backwater. I admit that spending time in the Rust Belt may affect your perspective on that scene
As an actual Rust-Beltian, one of the reasons the real Westview read to me as "depressed backwater" is totally because there are some real towns that look far more like Wanda's idealized created version - the town center gazebo is freshly painted and regularly used, the lawns are green, the streets are smooth, the shops in the 4-block "downtown" are all open and clean (albeit often somewhat cutesy/specialty stuff, like flavored popcorn & high-dollar home entertainment gear.)
But so yeah, it's not uncommon that within a couple miles of each other you can have 2 small quiet towns where one is "real Westview" that's clearly economically in trouble and things are worn and faded and dirty and one is a "WandaVison Westview" where everything is bright and shiny and clean.
(IME, these WandaVison towns are usually ones that have become wealthy bedroom communities/exurbs for the nearest city.)
posted by soundguy99 at 5:28 AM on February 28, 2021 [11 favorites]
As an actual Rust-Beltian, one of the reasons the real Westview read to me as "depressed backwater" is totally because there are some real towns that look far more like Wanda's idealized created version - the town center gazebo is freshly painted and regularly used, the lawns are green, the streets are smooth, the shops in the 4-block "downtown" are all open and clean (albeit often somewhat cutesy/specialty stuff, like flavored popcorn & high-dollar home entertainment gear.)
But so yeah, it's not uncommon that within a couple miles of each other you can have 2 small quiet towns where one is "real Westview" that's clearly economically in trouble and things are worn and faded and dirty and one is a "WandaVison Westview" where everything is bright and shiny and clean.
(IME, these WandaVison towns are usually ones that have become wealthy bedroom communities/exurbs for the nearest city.)
posted by soundguy99 at 5:28 AM on February 28, 2021 [11 favorites]
Right--consider what the Sage of Asbury Park (which, although Westview doesn't seem on or near the ocean, is probably not that far away from, given that I'm assuming it's near NYC) had to say about the fate of a lot of small towns:
posted by Halloween Jack at 8:00 AM on February 28, 2021 [2 favorites]
Now Main Street's whitewashed windows and vacant storesAnd that was all the way back in the eighties.
Seems like there ain't nobody wants to come down here no more
They're closing down the textile mill across the railroad tracks
Foreman says "These jobs are going, boys
And they ain't coming back
To your hometown."
posted by Halloween Jack at 8:00 AM on February 28, 2021 [2 favorites]
paper chromatographologist: Honestly that was probably the most boring possible version of something that could be described as a 17th-century, ten-on-one, witch battle.
That struck me more as a witchy magic firing squad than a battle.
posted by dr_dank at 10:03 AM on February 28, 2021 [5 favorites]
That struck me more as a witchy magic firing squad than a battle.
posted by dr_dank at 10:03 AM on February 28, 2021 [5 favorites]
I did feel like the Salem flashback was the least well-written scene of the series, almost like it was from a different movie. My editorial gut suggests that once the decision was made to have it be a reversal of the standard witch trials, the details just weren't put in - with the exception of the mother being the head of the coven.
It wouldn't normally hit my radar if it weren't surrounded by a more nuanced series. But I do feel like that's getting to nit picking. I still think the strength of this series is in taking the American Dream as revealed in sitcoms like a mythological structure of its own.
I've now seen it three times (due to watching with various family members) and I cry more each time.
posted by warriorqueen at 10:12 AM on February 28, 2021 [3 favorites]
It wouldn't normally hit my radar if it weren't surrounded by a more nuanced series. But I do feel like that's getting to nit picking. I still think the strength of this series is in taking the American Dream as revealed in sitcoms like a mythological structure of its own.
I've now seen it three times (due to watching with various family members) and I cry more each time.
posted by warriorqueen at 10:12 AM on February 28, 2021 [3 favorites]
People have said that Wanda's grief is the Big Bad for this show. But what if grief isn't bad? Maybe Vision's comments should make us reconsider what kind of show this is. If Wanda's Vision (should we just call him WandaVision?) represents Wanda's refusal to grieve, then of course he's got to go in the end. But if he represents the persistence of her love, maybe the story can still be satisfying if he stays.
posted by straight at 10:21 AM on February 28, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by straight at 10:21 AM on February 28, 2021 [3 favorites]
I did feel like the Salem flashback was the least well-written scene of the series
It's a testimony to how good this show is that my first thought is, "Maybe that's deliberate? Maybe it means something..." I can't think of any other superhero TV show I'd reflexively give the writing that much benefit of the doubt.
posted by straight at 10:23 AM on February 28, 2021 [3 favorites]
It's a testimony to how good this show is that my first thought is, "Maybe that's deliberate? Maybe it means something..." I can't think of any other superhero TV show I'd reflexively give the writing that much benefit of the doubt.
posted by straight at 10:23 AM on February 28, 2021 [3 favorites]
the last time I'd have given any other superhero TV show anywhere near this kind of latitude was... Jessica Jones.
posted by mce at 10:28 AM on February 28, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by mce at 10:28 AM on February 28, 2021 [2 favorites]
Westview reminded me strongly of downtown Trenton.
WESTVIEW MAKES
THE MULTIVERSE TAKES
posted by pykrete jungle at 10:43 AM on February 28, 2021 [11 favorites]
The "Fietro" line demonstrated a much more nuanced understanding of fandom conventions than Disney+ displayed with "Don't you dare call that adorable green creature Baby Yoda, and no you can't have a stuffed one in time for Christmas."
TV writers probably generally do have a better understanding of fandom than TV lawyers. With marketers, it always seems like a crap shoot.
posted by pykrete jungle at 10:46 AM on February 28, 2021 [1 favorite]
TV writers probably generally do have a better understanding of fandom than TV lawyers. With marketers, it always seems like a crap shoot.
posted by pykrete jungle at 10:46 AM on February 28, 2021 [1 favorite]
That struck me more as a witchy magic firing squad than a battle.
Sure, but then she fought back and killed them all.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 1:38 PM on February 28, 2021 [1 favorite]
Sure, but then she fought back and killed them all.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 1:38 PM on February 28, 2021 [1 favorite]
I was gonna qualify my statement with Jessica Jones, mce, except there I failed to give the writers the benefit of the doubt when I should have. There were at least three things in the second season I thought were bad writing that turned out to be deliberate and smart. Unfortunately there was also still some bad writing as well.
posted by straight at 2:01 PM on February 28, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by straight at 2:01 PM on February 28, 2021 [2 favorites]
So, based on the bulk of this episode, Wanda-in-Hex doesn't (consciously) know much about Wanda from the outside world, and doesn't seem to have much agency as far as what's going on with it. But now I'm wondering what part of Wanda stomped out of the Hex previously and threw SWORD's drone back at it and told off Hayward, and what does *that* Wanda (or part of Wanda) think of Agnes/Agatha?
posted by rmd1023 at 2:04 PM on February 28, 2021
posted by rmd1023 at 2:04 PM on February 28, 2021
I can think of a lot of stories where people try to kill someone and it backfires and they end up killing themselves instead. It usually doesn't mean the person they were trying to kill was bad, even if the target did something to trigger the backfire and is smug about it afterwards.
posted by straight at 2:06 PM on February 28, 2021
posted by straight at 2:06 PM on February 28, 2021
Watchmen, Damon Lindelof's TV sequel/response to the original comic book, was a work of art. And I didn't expect anything from the MCU to come close. This show comes close. It's not quite as challenging-of-the-status-quo (the non-white characters in WandaVision are supporting players) or confronting, but it's intertextual in the way Watchmen was and it's emotional in all sorts of interesting way. WandaVision is really well plotted, as well. Watching pieces fall into place and also be reconfigured as the series progresses was one of the delights of Watchmen, too. And it looks like the best comic book dramas are 9 episodes long.
I can see all sorts of ways the finale could go wrong, but this show has been genuinely surprising every week - and not just in shocking ways, but in clever ways that have enriched my experience.
I look forward to the Agatha/Wanda/Monica team-up to defeat the emotionless white automatons of New!Vision and Hayward.
posted by crossoverman at 2:06 PM on February 28, 2021 [9 favorites]
I can see all sorts of ways the finale could go wrong, but this show has been genuinely surprising every week - and not just in shocking ways, but in clever ways that have enriched my experience.
I look forward to the Agatha/Wanda/Monica team-up to defeat the emotionless white automatons of New!Vision and Hayward.
posted by crossoverman at 2:06 PM on February 28, 2021 [9 favorites]
Just rewatched the first three episodes (Ms. HeroZero catching up), and the poolside PTA meeting from episode 2 now reads even more coven-y.
posted by HeroZero at 4:34 PM on February 28, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by HeroZero at 4:34 PM on February 28, 2021 [2 favorites]
I am extremely suspicious of Hayward. He seemed to be deliberately trying to trigger her in the office and trying to plant the seeds of attempting to revive Vision. Oh, you’re here to collect the body of your loved one, here I’ll show you him all dismembered with people cutting him up does that help? And then he lies about what happened? Nuh uh. Not a good/misunderstood character.
posted by shesdeadimalive at 6:25 PM on February 28, 2021 [7 favorites]
posted by shesdeadimalive at 6:25 PM on February 28, 2021 [7 favorites]
rmd1023, I took it as more that she had been trying to forget or suppress her traumatic past and it took a lot of work. Her stomping out to confront Hayward (and I think blasting Fietro) were defensive actions from her point of view. They were trying to make her remember and she didn't want to. But with the last episode Agatha had her under some control and had her children as hostages, so she was forced to think about things she'd deliberately been avoiding.
posted by harriet vane at 7:02 PM on February 28, 2021
posted by harriet vane at 7:02 PM on February 28, 2021
And from this last episode too I feel like I get Hayward now. He wants his own Vision, and sees him as a robotic weapon. He only cared about Wanda until he found out that she didn't have a spare battery or a way to revive him. In the post-credits scene he says they've tried a heap of power sources - I do think at Sword he was trying to provoke her into zapping the body. When that didn't work he lost interest in her until Monica went into the Hex. Then he took the opportunity to say that Wanda stole Vision's body, in the hopes that the team could get Wanda's version out for him to claim.
Something I'm still puzzled about: who is Jimmy Woo's missing witness protection guy? I thought it might be Wanda or Vision at first, if he was helping them hide out. But that doesn't seem to be the case. In episode 4 he says this started as a missing person's case so they'll follow that protocol to identify who's who in the Hex, but then he never mentions his case again.
posted by harriet vane at 7:11 PM on February 28, 2021 [1 favorite]
Something I'm still puzzled about: who is Jimmy Woo's missing witness protection guy? I thought it might be Wanda or Vision at first, if he was helping them hide out. But that doesn't seem to be the case. In episode 4 he says this started as a missing person's case so they'll follow that protocol to identify who's who in the Hex, but then he never mentions his case again.
posted by harriet vane at 7:11 PM on February 28, 2021 [1 favorite]
Maybe Fietro’s gonna be the witness protection guy.
posted by warriorqueen at 7:20 PM on February 28, 2021
posted by warriorqueen at 7:20 PM on February 28, 2021
I saw a tweet from Disney+ - it appears there are two episodes left, not one.
posted by 41swans at 8:00 PM on February 28, 2021
posted by 41swans at 8:00 PM on February 28, 2021
Step into a new reality. Prepare for next week's finale by streaming the eighth episode of @MarvelStudios' #WandaVision, now streaming on #DisneyPlus.
Only one more episode.
posted by fomhar at 8:08 PM on February 28, 2021 [1 favorite]
Only one more episode.
posted by fomhar at 8:08 PM on February 28, 2021 [1 favorite]
You got me excited there 41swans. It's this tweet, probably.
Sadly I think it's at best ambiguous, as it's the tweet announcing episode 8. I suspect they just mean "watch episode 8 and 9, they are the last two episodes."
Very much want to be wrong on about this, though!
posted by mark k at 8:08 PM on February 28, 2021 [1 favorite]
Sadly I think it's at best ambiguous, as it's the tweet announcing episode 8. I suspect they just mean "watch episode 8 and 9, they are the last two episodes."
Very much want to be wrong on about this, though!
posted by mark k at 8:08 PM on February 28, 2021 [1 favorite]
Maybe Fietro’s gonna be the witness protection guy.
That’s my thought, too. Still, the question is who, exactly, is he? The last we saw of him, he surprised Monica at the entrance to Agnes’ basement. We don’t know how that turned out.
I’m having real trepidations about the finale. So far, the show has blessedly steered clear from a lot of common super-hero movie action, but with the introduction of rebuilt-to-be-a-super-weapon White Vision, I fear the finale will devolve into 30 minutes of yet another MCU battle/destruction-fest. I really hope not. This show deserves a much better/smarter finale.
posted by Thorzdad at 8:43 PM on February 28, 2021 [4 favorites]
That’s my thought, too. Still, the question is who, exactly, is he? The last we saw of him, he surprised Monica at the entrance to Agnes’ basement. We don’t know how that turned out.
I’m having real trepidations about the finale. So far, the show has blessedly steered clear from a lot of common super-hero movie action, but with the introduction of rebuilt-to-be-a-super-weapon White Vision, I fear the finale will devolve into 30 minutes of yet another MCU battle/destruction-fest. I really hope not. This show deserves a much better/smarter finale.
posted by Thorzdad at 8:43 PM on February 28, 2021 [4 favorites]
I saw a tweet from Disney+ - it appears there are two episodes left, not one.
One one of the half-dozen or so competing geek minutiae analysis YouTube channels, the guy breathlessly told us that after the full season run, there is a an episode of behind-the-scenes stuff (I guess much like the extras on a DVD or Blu-Ray) before the next show takes over the "timeslot."
So: March 5 -- episode 9; March 12 -- bonus episode; March 19 -- Falcon and Winter Soldier starts.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 8:55 PM on February 28, 2021
One one of the half-dozen or so competing geek minutiae analysis YouTube channels, the guy breathlessly told us that after the full season run, there is a an episode of behind-the-scenes stuff (I guess much like the extras on a DVD or Blu-Ray) before the next show takes over the "timeslot."
So: March 5 -- episode 9; March 12 -- bonus episode; March 19 -- Falcon and Winter Soldier starts.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 8:55 PM on February 28, 2021
They’ve made it clear that there’s only one episode left in a further tweet: "Step into a new reality. Prepare for next week's finale by streaming the eighth episode..."
posted by scorbet at 9:51 PM on February 28, 2021
posted by scorbet at 9:51 PM on February 28, 2021
Can't believe I've managed to be in ANOTHER fandom* that's holding out for a secret final episode.
*TBF only by tumblr osmosis
posted by cendawanita at 12:18 AM on March 1, 2021 [2 favorites]
*TBF only by tumblr osmosis
posted by cendawanita at 12:18 AM on March 1, 2021 [2 favorites]
It just suddenly occurred to me to re-check the scene in episode 7 where Wanda’s oat milk glitches into a standard milk carton with a photo of a missing boy on the side—I now suspect that boy will be young Pietro. Has anybody heard this is the case?
Can't believe I've managed to be in ANOTHER fandom* that's holding out for a secret final episode
Was the first one QAnon?
posted by ejs at 5:41 AM on March 1, 2021
Can't believe I've managed to be in ANOTHER fandom* that's holding out for a secret final episode
Was the first one QAnon?
posted by ejs at 5:41 AM on March 1, 2021
I fear the finale will devolve into 30 minutes of yet another MCU battle/destruction-fest. I really hope not. This show deserves a much better/smarter finale.
This has been my active fear while watching every single episode. That also might just be my pandemic madness setting in.
posted by HeroZero at 5:43 AM on March 1, 2021 [1 favorite]
This has been my active fear while watching every single episode. That also might just be my pandemic madness setting in.
posted by HeroZero at 5:43 AM on March 1, 2021 [1 favorite]
If Agnes was drawn to Westview, shouldn't Doctor Strange also be interested? Logically yes, which makes me think the good Doctor is aware of what's going on, but is holding back for the moment, for some unknown reason.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 10:30 AM on March 1, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 10:30 AM on March 1, 2021 [4 favorites]
If Agnes was drawn to Westview, shouldn't Doctor Strange also be interested?
Very true! I also would expect the Hex to have pinged Baron "No More Magic" Mordo's radar by now.
posted by EatTheWeek at 10:46 AM on March 1, 2021
Very true! I also would expect the Hex to have pinged Baron "No More Magic" Mordo's radar by now.
posted by EatTheWeek at 10:46 AM on March 1, 2021
the good Doctor is aware of what's going on, but is holding back for the moment, for some unknown reason.
I mean, to be fair, stage-managing the whole Return of a Zillion heroes from Sam saying "On your left" onward to the entire population of Wakanda etc probably took a lot out of the guy. He might still be recovering.
posted by rmd1023 at 11:21 AM on March 1, 2021 [2 favorites]
I mean, to be fair, stage-managing the whole Return of a Zillion heroes from Sam saying "On your left" onward to the entire population of Wakanda etc probably took a lot out of the guy. He might still be recovering.
posted by rmd1023 at 11:21 AM on March 1, 2021 [2 favorites]
Wanda created a pocket universe in that time, so he really needs to wake up from whatever nap he's taking!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:33 AM on March 1, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:33 AM on March 1, 2021 [1 favorite]
I think Doctor Strange is going to be the surprise big guest in the last episode, to tie into the upcoming movie.
posted by jenfullmoon at 11:35 AM on March 1, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by jenfullmoon at 11:35 AM on March 1, 2021 [3 favorites]
It would make sense, 'cause Wanda definitely needs a firm talking to. Agatha is capable of doing that, but she probably has her own agenda.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:40 AM on March 1, 2021
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:40 AM on March 1, 2021
The surprise guest is driving us all batty - one theory around here was that the "aerospace engineer" mentioned by Monica a couple of episodes back was going to be Reed Richards, maybe pre-FF4-event? There are only a couple of other characters that might fit the profile. Dr. Strange makes a lot of sense though.
I'm trying trying trying to trust that the writers have this but part of me is going even more batty by the idea that there's only 1 episode left and how will they possible wrap up this up in a good way that solidly ties it up. This is a tribute, I think, to how fantastic it's been so far.
posted by jquinby at 11:43 AM on March 1, 2021 [1 favorite]
I'm trying trying trying to trust that the writers have this but part of me is going even more batty by the idea that there's only 1 episode left and how will they possible wrap up this up in a good way that solidly ties it up. This is a tribute, I think, to how fantastic it's been so far.
posted by jquinby at 11:43 AM on March 1, 2021 [1 favorite]
I think there's plenty of time to wrap things up. The biggest point is Wanda needs to come to terms with her loss and her reaction to it, in terms of bringing other people into her pocket griefverse.
She'll need some help with learning her powers, Agatha could do that and Dr. Strange will probably help at some point. Sure, there was be some sort of superhero battle, but the later MCU films have been good about not doing a complete slugfest. There's more emotional stakes in the battles these days, which makes a huge difference.
I'm convinced that the Monica's aerospace engineer is either Reed Richards or some friendly Skrull.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:01 PM on March 1, 2021 [2 favorites]
She'll need some help with learning her powers, Agatha could do that and Dr. Strange will probably help at some point. Sure, there was be some sort of superhero battle, but the later MCU films have been good about not doing a complete slugfest. There's more emotional stakes in the battles these days, which makes a huge difference.
I'm convinced that the Monica's aerospace engineer is either Reed Richards or some friendly Skrull.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:01 PM on March 1, 2021 [2 favorites]
The final episode feels too late to introduce new characters, and I think the Carol Corps were meant to be Monica's big reveal guest stars. I keep coming back to Dottie - what are we to make of this character introduced as a big deal, played by a minor marquee name actress, then barely referenced for the rest of the series? I think her last bit of screen time was a reaction shot of some kind. Is she Chekov's cameo or what?
posted by EatTheWeek at 12:35 PM on March 1, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by EatTheWeek at 12:35 PM on March 1, 2021 [5 favorites]
I’m also a bit concerned about there only being 1 episode left (I hope it is actually an extra long one this time). Less because of the Wanda story line, more because I’d like to have some sort of Darcy Lewis - Jimmy Woo - Monica Rambeau closure too. That’s what I worry might get lost. But, on the other hand, I should probably trust them based on the series so far.
(I don’t automatically need everything explained and tied off neatly - in fact a bit of open-endedness would be appreciated.)
I'm convinced that the Monica's aerospace engineer is either Reed Richards or some friendly Skrull.
I thought that this turned out to be Major (checks episode 7) Goodner - she’s the one who provided the vehicle after all.
posted by scorbet at 12:50 PM on March 1, 2021 [3 favorites]
(I don’t automatically need everything explained and tied off neatly - in fact a bit of open-endedness would be appreciated.)
I'm convinced that the Monica's aerospace engineer is either Reed Richards or some friendly Skrull.
I thought that this turned out to be Major (checks episode 7) Goodner - she’s the one who provided the vehicle after all.
posted by scorbet at 12:50 PM on March 1, 2021 [3 favorites]
I said what I said, lol.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:34 PM on March 1, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:34 PM on March 1, 2021 [1 favorite]
My assumption is that Goodner (and probably the rest of that team) were Skrull. She did say "my guy" which could mean someone else designed it, and that dude could be anyone; Skrull Friend, Reed Richards, Random McCharacter Guy. Reed Richards would be cool but I doubt we'd see him at this point, maybe just a name drop.
Bigger question; after the next episode, what happens with the Director? Does he end up fired in disgrace or is there a coverup (which could lead to the Photon or Spectrum plot)? I could see him attempting to scuttle off somewhere if White Vision doesn't triumph.
I feel like it would be a waste of Agatha if Strange swoops in all "Hey Scarlet Witch, let me lay some knowledge on ya," also that Wanda might not go along. I could see him coming in to try to get that book back at the end/bitch about Wanda and Agatha having torn open some sort of portal/unleashed something nasty, either on purpose or not.
I do kinda want to hear Agatha diss Strange because you know she'd have some cutting asides about his clothing/technique/sorcerors in general. I need to hear those.
posted by emjaybee at 1:56 PM on March 1, 2021 [5 favorites]
Bigger question; after the next episode, what happens with the Director? Does he end up fired in disgrace or is there a coverup (which could lead to the Photon or Spectrum plot)? I could see him attempting to scuttle off somewhere if White Vision doesn't triumph.
I feel like it would be a waste of Agatha if Strange swoops in all "Hey Scarlet Witch, let me lay some knowledge on ya," also that Wanda might not go along. I could see him coming in to try to get that book back at the end/bitch about Wanda and Agatha having torn open some sort of portal/unleashed something nasty, either on purpose or not.
I do kinda want to hear Agatha diss Strange because you know she'd have some cutting asides about his clothing/technique/sorcerors in general. I need to hear those.
posted by emjaybee at 1:56 PM on March 1, 2021 [5 favorites]
> We see Wanda literally construct him along with the rest of the town. So he's entirely a manifestation of Wanda's memories and power? If so, how does he have free will and true sentience?
My kid says she split her soul into two and he got half.
posted by The corpse in the library at 2:52 PM on March 1, 2021 [11 favorites]
My kid says she split her soul into two and he got half.
posted by The corpse in the library at 2:52 PM on March 1, 2021 [11 favorites]
Vision was made from the same infinity stone, so he didn’t completely die.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:02 PM on March 1, 2021
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:02 PM on March 1, 2021
The surprise guest is driving us all batty
I'm firmly in the camp that paul bettany was fully playing around because he meant himself. He's never acted against himself.
posted by cendawanita at 6:48 PM on March 1, 2021 [4 favorites]
I'm firmly in the camp that paul bettany was fully playing around because he meant himself. He's never acted against himself.
posted by cendawanita at 6:48 PM on March 1, 2021 [4 favorites]
Kottke shared these awesome period specific illustrations of each episode!
Episode 1
Episode 2
Episode 3
Episode 4
Episode 5
posted by ellieBOA at 2:22 AM on March 2, 2021 [14 favorites]
Episode 1
Episode 2
Episode 3
Episode 4
Episode 5
posted by ellieBOA at 2:22 AM on March 2, 2021 [14 favorites]
The final episode feels too late to introduce new characters...
Do we know for certain that this will be the series finale, or just the season finale? Because, if it's the latter, the finale is the highly typical point to introduce a new, important character, right at the last moment in that typical "you'll have to wait until next season to see what this means" tease. Even if it's the series finale, they could introduce a new character as a lead-in to another upcoming MCU show/movie.
posted by Thorzdad at 8:30 AM on March 2, 2021 [1 favorite]
Do we know for certain that this will be the series finale, or just the season finale? Because, if it's the latter, the finale is the highly typical point to introduce a new, important character, right at the last moment in that typical "you'll have to wait until next season to see what this means" tease. Even if it's the series finale, they could introduce a new character as a lead-in to another upcoming MCU show/movie.
posted by Thorzdad at 8:30 AM on March 2, 2021 [1 favorite]
Good point. I think this will be a series finale because the story seems almost finished, but I'd be delighted to be mistaken. I do fully expect this next episode to contain some sort of cliffhanger for Wanda's appearance in Dr. Strange 2, which certainly could take the form of a last second guest star.
posted by EatTheWeek at 9:40 AM on March 2, 2021
posted by EatTheWeek at 9:40 AM on March 2, 2021
Do we know for certain that this will be the series finale, or just the season finale?
I found this article , which doesn’t completely rule out a season 2, but makes it sound like it’s not really planned at the moment.
On the other hand, there’s a lot more Disney+ shows planned - The Falcon and the Winter Soldier, Loki, Ms. Marvel and Hawkeye this year alone (+ What If...?) so plenty of opportunities for a character to return. Plus the movies, of course.
posted by scorbet at 9:43 AM on March 2, 2021
I found this article , which doesn’t completely rule out a season 2, but makes it sound like it’s not really planned at the moment.
On the other hand, there’s a lot more Disney+ shows planned - The Falcon and the Winter Soldier, Loki, Ms. Marvel and Hawkeye this year alone (+ What If...?) so plenty of opportunities for a character to return. Plus the movies, of course.
posted by scorbet at 9:43 AM on March 2, 2021
Last episode to be 50 min, so about 45 min of story
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 10:57 AM on March 2, 2021
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 10:57 AM on March 2, 2021
Or 25 minutes of story and 25 minutes of credits. Anything's possible in Wandavision.
posted by Kyol at 11:55 AM on March 2, 2021 [10 favorites]
posted by Kyol at 11:55 AM on March 2, 2021 [10 favorites]
~We see Wanda literally construct him along with the rest of the town. So he's entirely a manifestation of Wanda's memories and power? If so, how does he have free will and true sentience?
~My kid says she split her soul into two and he got half.
I'm not sure if this means anything at all...Everyone in Westview are Wanda-ized versions of real people (except, maybe, Agnes, but she's still real) But, HexVision is (and, assumedly, the boys) are whole-cloth creations of Wanda's, yes? i.e. not really real. Could Wanda re-absorb their energies? Or, combine their energies into HexVision in order to defeat WhiteVision? For that matter, if Wanda were to drop the Hex completely, how much more powerful would that make her with all that energy she's been expending now freed-up?
posted by Thorzdad at 12:15 PM on March 2, 2021
~My kid says she split her soul into two and he got half.
I'm not sure if this means anything at all...Everyone in Westview are Wanda-ized versions of real people (except, maybe, Agnes, but she's still real) But, HexVision is (and, assumedly, the boys) are whole-cloth creations of Wanda's, yes? i.e. not really real. Could Wanda re-absorb their energies? Or, combine their energies into HexVision in order to defeat WhiteVision? For that matter, if Wanda were to drop the Hex completely, how much more powerful would that make her with all that energy she's been expending now freed-up?
posted by Thorzdad at 12:15 PM on March 2, 2021
The problem is that Wanda wasn't aware of her power. Sure, she could fly, mess with minds, through energy around, etc. But re-rewriting reality on the fly, with no conscious direction, but still doing it? That's a godlike power. Which she has been abusing, for understandable reasons, but still abusing.
So it's a question of her coming to terms with that and her grief and deciding where she goes after that.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:19 PM on March 2, 2021 [3 favorites]
So it's a question of her coming to terms with that and her grief and deciding where she goes after that.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:19 PM on March 2, 2021 [3 favorites]
Or 25 minutes of story and 25 minutes of credits. Anything's possible in Wandavision.
Although I wouldn't like it for the creators (and I'm sure union rules prohibit it), I think it would be really funny if they had no credits at all for the last one.
I'm wondering about the emerald headdress in the credits, in fact. Ugh I can't wait and I don't really want it to end all at once.
posted by warriorqueen at 1:43 PM on March 2, 2021 [1 favorite]
Although I wouldn't like it for the creators (and I'm sure union rules prohibit it), I think it would be really funny if they had no credits at all for the last one.
I'm wondering about the emerald headdress in the credits, in fact. Ugh I can't wait and I don't really want it to end all at once.
posted by warriorqueen at 1:43 PM on March 2, 2021 [1 favorite]
Vision and the twins could be NEW and they could still be REAL.
posted by bq at 2:37 PM on March 2, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by bq at 2:37 PM on March 2, 2021 [1 favorite]
Isn't the emerald headdress just Vision's cowl-thing?
Asking because we've been scrutinizing the end credits for potential clues, and so maybe I missed something...
looks at pinboard with stuff connected by different colored yarn...
posted by jquinby at 2:41 PM on March 2, 2021 [1 favorite]
Asking because we've been scrutinizing the end credits for potential clues, and so maybe I missed something...
looks at pinboard with stuff connected by different colored yarn...
posted by jquinby at 2:41 PM on March 2, 2021 [1 favorite]
I think it would be really funny if they had no credits at all for the last one
Just flash a QR code up there.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 2:51 PM on March 2, 2021 [5 favorites]
Just flash a QR code up there.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 2:51 PM on March 2, 2021 [5 favorites]
The whole episode is nothing _but_ mid-credits sequences.
posted by Kyol at 3:12 PM on March 2, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by Kyol at 3:12 PM on March 2, 2021 [2 favorites]
But if there are no credits how can the sequences be "mid-credits"?
posted by The Tensor at 3:27 PM on March 2, 2021
posted by The Tensor at 3:27 PM on March 2, 2021
Don’t question Wanda’s power!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 3:28 PM on March 2, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 3:28 PM on March 2, 2021 [5 favorites]
I am really enjoying our discussion of the minutiae of how DVD distribution (legal or illegal) would work in a fictional Eastern European country on an alternate Earth in 1999. Well done, Metafilter.
posted by emjaybee
Hear, hear, no-prizes all around!
posted by eustatic at 5:46 PM on March 2, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by emjaybee
Hear, hear, no-prizes all around!
posted by eustatic at 5:46 PM on March 2, 2021 [2 favorites]
Even if it's the series finale, they could introduce a new character as a lead-in to another upcoming MCU show/movie.
Indeed. Thanos was first seen in the mid-credits scene of Avengers in which he was visible for perhaps five seconds, was not identified, and did not even speak. He turned out to have a... moderately important role in the MCU.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 6:40 PM on March 2, 2021 [4 favorites]
Indeed. Thanos was first seen in the mid-credits scene of Avengers in which he was visible for perhaps five seconds, was not identified, and did not even speak. He turned out to have a... moderately important role in the MCU.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 6:40 PM on March 2, 2021 [4 favorites]
I am really enjoying our discussion of the minutiae of how DVD distribution (legal or illegal) would work in a fictional Eastern European country on an alternate Earth in 1999. Well done, Metafilter.
posted by emjaybee
Hear, hear, no-prizes all around!
What is Metafilter if not over-analysis of a plate of beans perservering?
posted by lord_wolf at 7:25 PM on March 2, 2021 [11 favorites]
posted by emjaybee
Hear, hear, no-prizes all around!
What is Metafilter if not over-analysis of a plate of beans perservering?
posted by lord_wolf at 7:25 PM on March 2, 2021 [11 favorites]
Isn't the emerald headdress just Vision's cowl-thing?
Asking because we've been scrutinizing the end credits for potential clues, and so maybe I missed something...
I also thought this was Vision's green headdress, but I'm very open to speculating wildly about a last second Enchantress or Polaris appearance.
posted by EatTheWeek at 8:07 PM on March 2, 2021
Asking because we've been scrutinizing the end credits for potential clues, and so maybe I missed something...
I also thought this was Vision's green headdress, but I'm very open to speculating wildly about a last second Enchantress or Polaris appearance.
posted by EatTheWeek at 8:07 PM on March 2, 2021
"You're supposed to be a myth, a being capable of spontaneous creation. And here you are, using it to make breakfast for dinner."
To quote Greg Nog:
WHY WON'T YOU TALK ABOUT HOW ELSA CAN CREATE SENTIENT BEINGS
SHE HAS THE POWERS OF ELOHIM AND CREATES TWO THINKING FEELING MINDS IN THE COURSE OF THE FILM WITHOUT EVEN WORKING HARD AND THE MOST UNSETTLED ANYONE EVER GETS IS "gosh it sure is cold now"
posted by eckeric at 8:08 PM on March 2, 2021 [8 favorites]
To quote Greg Nog:
WHY WON'T YOU TALK ABOUT HOW ELSA CAN CREATE SENTIENT BEINGS
SHE HAS THE POWERS OF ELOHIM AND CREATES TWO THINKING FEELING MINDS IN THE COURSE OF THE FILM WITHOUT EVEN WORKING HARD AND THE MOST UNSETTLED ANYONE EVER GETS IS "gosh it sure is cold now"
posted by eckeric at 8:08 PM on March 2, 2021 [8 favorites]
Now that we've sorted out the question of DVD distribution, maybe we should move on to interrogating Wanda's choice of car. Is buying a Buick Verano the first stage of grief?
posted by Paul Slade at 11:59 PM on March 2, 2021 [13 favorites]
posted by Paul Slade at 11:59 PM on March 2, 2021 [13 favorites]
Billions of people just came back a few weeks ago and so all the good rental cars were already reserved. So, Wanda ended up with the Buick.
posted by rmd1023 at 8:18 AM on March 3, 2021 [11 favorites]
posted by rmd1023 at 8:18 AM on March 3, 2021 [11 favorites]
Coulda been a company car, too.
SWORD giving off a strong govvie vibe makes it eminently plausible. It was probably the Buick or a late-model Malibu. But the Malibu hadn't been cleaned yet, so you grab the Buick and go because whatever, no time to wait.
posted by jquinby at 8:38 AM on March 3, 2021 [1 favorite]
SWORD giving off a strong govvie vibe makes it eminently plausible. It was probably the Buick or a late-model Malibu. But the Malibu hadn't been cleaned yet, so you grab the Buick and go because whatever, no time to wait.
posted by jquinby at 8:38 AM on March 3, 2021 [1 favorite]
The Ringer: The Biggest Loose Ends Heading Into the ‘WandaVision’ Finale
TL;DR:
posted by 1970s Antihero at 8:42 AM on March 3, 2021 [1 favorite]
TL;DR:
- Who is White Vision and what are director Hayward’s plans?
- What will happen to Fake Pietro?
- Who is the original missing person in the FBI’s missing persons case?
- Who is Dottie?
- Who is Ralph?
- Will Billy and Tommy survive? (Are they even alive to begin with?)
- What’s that book in Agatha’s basement?
- Is agent Franklin … OK?
- What happened between Monica Rambeau and Captain Marvel?
- How will everything lead in to Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness?
posted by 1970s Antihero at 8:42 AM on March 3, 2021 [1 favorite]
Was the identity of Monica’s aerospace pal answered sufficiently?
Quite possibly this is one of those things that the MCU throws out there, which could be anything. In Endgame, there was a mention of underwater earthquakes occurring somewhere and lots of people suspect that's a hint of the Submariner (look it up).
So this could be RR of Fantastic Four, it could also be nothing.
But I'm betting it's Reed Richards).
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:44 AM on March 3, 2021
Quite possibly this is one of those things that the MCU throws out there, which could be anything. In Endgame, there was a mention of underwater earthquakes occurring somewhere and lots of people suspect that's a hint of the Submariner (look it up).
So this could be RR of Fantastic Four, it could also be nothing.
But I'm betting it's Reed Richards).
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:44 AM on March 3, 2021
Hayward really ought to be wearing a badge with "Hi! I'm secretly a Skrull!" on it.
posted by Grangousier at 11:52 AM on March 3, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Grangousier at 11:52 AM on March 3, 2021 [1 favorite]
I really like that the Hayward twist may well turn out to be that he's so mediocre and ineffective that he's indistinguishable from an AIM or Skrull saboteur.
posted by EatTheWeek at 12:53 PM on March 3, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by EatTheWeek at 12:53 PM on March 3, 2021 [5 favorites]
Mostly I just noticed that Wanda's car matched Vision.
posted by jenfullmoon at 1:35 PM on March 3, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by jenfullmoon at 1:35 PM on March 3, 2021 [1 favorite]
Mostly I just noticed that Wanda's car matched Vision.
Buick Verano: Vibranium Edition.
posted by Thorzdad at 2:19 PM on March 3, 2021 [1 favorite]
Buick Verano: Vibranium Edition.
posted by Thorzdad at 2:19 PM on March 3, 2021 [1 favorite]
Comes with a sunroof, premium audio package, and sword badges
posted by Huffy Puffy at 2:37 PM on March 3, 2021
posted by Huffy Puffy at 2:37 PM on March 3, 2021
Just a think that came to me that I don’t think has been mentioned already: there is a bit of dialogue about “this bewitched basement,” which is glorious given that Agatha’s house on the backlot is the same one used as the Stevens residence in Bewitched.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 6:48 AM on March 4, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by ricochet biscuit at 6:48 AM on March 4, 2021 [6 favorites]
I loved that line, ricochet biscuit.
posted by warriorqueen at 10:24 AM on March 4, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by warriorqueen at 10:24 AM on March 4, 2021 [1 favorite]
Lol, called it: Paul Bettany Trolled ‘WandaVision’ Fans, Admits ‘Surprise Actor’ He Touted Is Himself
posted by cendawanita at 11:52 AM on March 4, 2021 [7 favorites]
posted by cendawanita at 11:52 AM on March 4, 2021 [7 favorites]
Damn it Bettany!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:37 PM on March 4, 2021
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:37 PM on March 4, 2021
That's just hysterical - absolutely hysterical - in terms of the full on panic that he felt.
posted by drewbage1847 at 1:47 PM on March 4, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by drewbage1847 at 1:47 PM on March 4, 2021 [2 favorites]
Thoughtful article: What we argue about when we argue about WandaVision
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:29 PM on March 4, 2021
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:29 PM on March 4, 2021
Lol, called it: Paul Bettany Trolled ‘WandaVision’ Fans, Admits ‘Surprise Actor’ He Touted Is Himself
Unless this is a DOUBLE BLUFF.
It won't be.
BUT WHAT IF IT IS?
7 hours to go...
posted by crossoverman at 5:13 PM on March 4, 2021 [1 favorite]
Unless this is a DOUBLE BLUFF.
It won't be.
BUT WHAT IF IT IS?
7 hours to go...
posted by crossoverman at 5:13 PM on March 4, 2021 [1 favorite]
Jimmy Fallon had a FallonVision sketch this week, which is worth the price of admission for the ahem surprise actor at the end.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 8:15 PM on March 4, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 8:15 PM on March 4, 2021 [4 favorites]
The interview from that episode is also interesting but avoid it if you're absolutely the kind to overthink a plate of beans this close to the finale (no real spoilers just offhanded mcu talk).
And speaking of overthinking: the 'extra' ep is confirmed to be a behind the scenes special.
posted by cendawanita at 10:24 PM on March 4, 2021
And speaking of overthinking: the 'extra' ep is confirmed to be a behind the scenes special.
posted by cendawanita at 10:24 PM on March 4, 2021
Heads up for the next episode, series finale: 49min total, two mid-credits sequences.
posted by TheophileEscargot at 3:48 AM on March 5, 2021
posted by TheophileEscargot at 3:48 AM on March 5, 2021
the DVDs are in the suitcase a year before the show first was produced
I don't think we actually got a date for when the scene happened, just that it was when the twins were 10. Everyone assumes that 1989 + 10 means it's 1999 . However as the the argument went "he's 28 until he becomes 29". The twins aren't 11 until sometime in 2000. So this scene could be any time between January 1999 and December 2000, depending on when their birthday is.
posted by scorbet at 10:02 AM on March 7, 2021
I don't think we actually got a date for when the scene happened, just that it was when the twins were 10. Everyone assumes that 1989 + 10 means it's 1999 . However as the the argument went "he's 28 until he becomes 29". The twins aren't 11 until sometime in 2000. So this scene could be any time between January 1999 and December 2000, depending on when their birthday is.
posted by scorbet at 10:02 AM on March 7, 2021
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posted by Pronoiac at 12:45 AM on February 26, 2021 [8 favorites]