Downton Abbey: Episode One
January 5, 2015 6:01 AM - Season 5, Episode 1 - Subscribe
The election of a Labour government spells change, a change that Lord Grantham and Carson are bothered by. But many others are ready for an England in which life is "more tolerable for working people." Meanwhile, the Dowager Countess is pulling strings, Thomas' attempt to blackmail Baxter comes to a head, and Edith nearly burns the house down.
I'm drawing a blank on what happened with Gillingham's valet. I know he raped Mrs Bates - but then he died?
posted by double bubble at 6:16 AM on January 5, 2015
posted by double bubble at 6:16 AM on January 5, 2015
The Bus of Justice (h/t TWoP) dispatched Mr. Green by running over him.
posted by jgirl at 6:29 AM on January 5, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by jgirl at 6:29 AM on January 5, 2015 [6 favorites]
IIRC, it is strongly implied that Bates killed him but made it look like a traffic accident. (There was that whole business with Bates' train ticket to London on the day Green died, which Mary burned.)
posted by jbickers at 6:31 AM on January 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by jbickers at 6:31 AM on January 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
Tom's conversation with Lord Grantham about "not being a hater" felt bizarrely anachronistic. I suppose people used the word that way then too?
Barrow's scheming feels ridiculous this late in the series. I wish they'd give Thomas more to do than plot to ruin various members of the household staff.
posted by gladly at 7:03 AM on January 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
Barrow's scheming feels ridiculous this late in the series. I wish they'd give Thomas more to do than plot to ruin various members of the household staff.
posted by gladly at 7:03 AM on January 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
Oh Edith. *facepalm* Fireman Drewe seems to be the smartest one around in that situation these days. Makes me wonder how they pulled off filming that--I'm assuming they made a double of the original room of Highclere or something.
I did enjoy Cora's brief telling off of Thomas. Too bad that won't come back. Sigh.
Much as Moseley is a chump, he can have his occasional moments (i.e. Baxter). Pretty sure Baxter stole because someone she loved was in major trouble, hence why she's not normally tempted to thievery. "No excuses," though.
Honestly, both of Lady Mary's dudes seem nice enough, but I don't really care who she picks and I can have a hard time telling them apart. That said, I think it's reasonable to try out the merchandise before buying. Ahem.
Tom's "friend" is irritating as hell. I realize his pickings are slim and awkward, but yuck.
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:27 AM on January 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
I did enjoy Cora's brief telling off of Thomas. Too bad that won't come back. Sigh.
Much as Moseley is a chump, he can have his occasional moments (i.e. Baxter). Pretty sure Baxter stole because someone she loved was in major trouble, hence why she's not normally tempted to thievery. "No excuses," though.
Honestly, both of Lady Mary's dudes seem nice enough, but I don't really care who she picks and I can have a hard time telling them apart. That said, I think it's reasonable to try out the merchandise before buying. Ahem.
Tom's "friend" is irritating as hell. I realize his pickings are slim and awkward, but yuck.
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:27 AM on January 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
I'm assuming that the baby picture Edith put under her pillow will somehow be discovered as the staff are cleaning up the fire damage. Probably found by Barrow. Blackmail ensues.
My goodness, though, this episode had the slapdash feel of a highlights reel. Too many quick jumps between unrelated scenes and conversations. I know the PBS version is edited down from the ITV version, but, good grief. The pacing was more akin to a music video.
posted by Thorzdad at 7:33 AM on January 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
My goodness, though, this episode had the slapdash feel of a highlights reel. Too many quick jumps between unrelated scenes and conversations. I know the PBS version is edited down from the ITV version, but, good grief. The pacing was more akin to a music video.
posted by Thorzdad at 7:33 AM on January 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
Barrow's scheming feels ridiculous this late in the series. I wish they'd give Thomas more to do than plot to ruin various members of the household staff.
I didn't catch the year that this season is set in, but it's been at least a year since the end of season 4, based on the growth of the young kids. Are we to believe that Thomas has been cornering Baxter on the stairwells, threatening her to reveal the Bates' secrets, for a year?
posted by donajo at 7:34 AM on January 5, 2015
I didn't catch the year that this season is set in, but it's been at least a year since the end of season 4, based on the growth of the young kids. Are we to believe that Thomas has been cornering Baxter on the stairwells, threatening her to reveal the Bates' secrets, for a year?
posted by donajo at 7:34 AM on January 5, 2015
"Principles are like prayers: noble, of course, but awkward at a party." -- The Dowager Countess of Grantham
posted by dnash at 7:41 AM on January 5, 2015 [9 favorites]
posted by dnash at 7:41 AM on January 5, 2015 [9 favorites]
I was crocheting while I was watching last night, so I'm not quite sure if Edith set the fire on purpose or not. Was she trying to commit suicide?
posted by donajo at 8:22 AM on January 5, 2015
posted by donajo at 8:22 AM on January 5, 2015
Accident. She hurled the book across the room at the fireplace and it landed close enough to catch fire, but not fully in the fireplace so it got the rest of the room on fire also.
(Really I don't think I'd mind if she'd died. I'm rather bored with mopey Edith.)
posted by dnash at 8:34 AM on January 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
(Really I don't think I'd mind if she'd died. I'm rather bored with mopey Edith.)
posted by dnash at 8:34 AM on January 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
Barrow's scheming feels ridiculous this late in the series. I wish they'd give Thomas more to do than plot to ruin various members of the household staff.
ITA. I think Barrow is a fascinating character as someone who constantly makes comments about or eluding to the fact that he is gay. I would like to see more about this.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:54 AM on January 5, 2015
ITA. I think Barrow is a fascinating character as someone who constantly makes comments about or eluding to the fact that he is gay. I would like to see more about this.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:54 AM on January 5, 2015
Pretty sure Baxter stole because someone she loved was in major trouble, hence why she's not normally tempted to thievery.
Yeah, I sort of assume it was a sister who needed an abortion which would be why she stole, sold the stuff so fast, and won't talk about it. We also know she has a sister because Thomas says that's how he knows her. It's also possible I've just watched Dirty Dancing too many times, but they've delved into prostitution, illegitimate children, and pre- and extramarital sex so my money's on beloved sister's illegal abortion as the reason a woman of principle stole and went to prison and now won't talk about why.
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 10:42 AM on January 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
Yeah, I sort of assume it was a sister who needed an abortion which would be why she stole, sold the stuff so fast, and won't talk about it. We also know she has a sister because Thomas says that's how he knows her. It's also possible I've just watched Dirty Dancing too many times, but they've delved into prostitution, illegitimate children, and pre- and extramarital sex so my money's on beloved sister's illegal abortion as the reason a woman of principle stole and went to prison and now won't talk about why.
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 10:42 AM on January 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
IIRC, it is strongly implied that Bates killed him but made it look like a traffic accident. (There was that whole business with Bates' train ticket to London on the day Green died, which Mary burned.)
Yeah, I wouldn't mind a refresher here, especially as they seem to be hinting in this episode that they may not be as finished with the whole "did Bates kill Greene" business as I thought. (God I hope I'm wrong. My two big wishes for this season, give Bates and Anna a fucking break for once, and either make Thomas stop being an asshole or at least give him some compelling reason to be one.)
What I know:
Greene died by falling (or being pushed) in front of a bus. The police are apparently satisfied it was an accident. It was a crowded street and nobody seems to have witnessed anything to suggest otherwise. So there's no ongoing investigation.
That day, Bates had asked for the day off to perform some unspecified errand in another town X.
Later, there's some charity drive collecting clothing, and Anna (?) gives Bates's old coat to... who again?
Someone (who?) discovers a ticket in the pocket which shows that Bates did not go to town X that day, but in fact went to London, or wherever it was that Greene died. Suspicion naturally arises.
This person goes to Mary with the moral quandary of what to do, and Mary (who does know what Greene did, correct?) is initially all high and mighty saying we can't stand by and let evidence remain hidden even if Greene did have it coming. But then when Bates's skills in forgery and pickpocketing prove crucial in recovering some stolen letters that would otherwise have buried the family in a royal scandal, she rethinks either a) her unsullied moral superiority or at least b) the favors she owes Bates, and burns the ticket, apparently destroying the only evidence to tie Bates to the events of that day.
I may have some of that wrong, but even so the part I'm confused about is how Baxter got involved, and apparently knows the whole story? I thought it was Anna that went to Mary - she's Mary's maid and friend, Baxter isn't. How does Baxter tie in?
posted by Naberius at 11:52 AM on January 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
Yeah, I wouldn't mind a refresher here, especially as they seem to be hinting in this episode that they may not be as finished with the whole "did Bates kill Greene" business as I thought. (God I hope I'm wrong. My two big wishes for this season, give Bates and Anna a fucking break for once, and either make Thomas stop being an asshole or at least give him some compelling reason to be one.)
What I know:
Greene died by falling (or being pushed) in front of a bus. The police are apparently satisfied it was an accident. It was a crowded street and nobody seems to have witnessed anything to suggest otherwise. So there's no ongoing investigation.
That day, Bates had asked for the day off to perform some unspecified errand in another town X.
Later, there's some charity drive collecting clothing, and Anna (?) gives Bates's old coat to... who again?
Someone (who?) discovers a ticket in the pocket which shows that Bates did not go to town X that day, but in fact went to London, or wherever it was that Greene died. Suspicion naturally arises.
This person goes to Mary with the moral quandary of what to do, and Mary (who does know what Greene did, correct?) is initially all high and mighty saying we can't stand by and let evidence remain hidden even if Greene did have it coming. But then when Bates's skills in forgery and pickpocketing prove crucial in recovering some stolen letters that would otherwise have buried the family in a royal scandal, she rethinks either a) her unsullied moral superiority or at least b) the favors she owes Bates, and burns the ticket, apparently destroying the only evidence to tie Bates to the events of that day.
I may have some of that wrong, but even so the part I'm confused about is how Baxter got involved, and apparently knows the whole story? I thought it was Anna that went to Mary - she's Mary's maid and friend, Baxter isn't. How does Baxter tie in?
posted by Naberius at 11:52 AM on January 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
Anna gave the coat to Mrs. Hughes, I believe, and it was Mrs. Hughes who found the ticket and brought it to Mary wondering what it meant and what to do.
Baxter, I think, has only overheard bits and pieces enough to get an idea of the whole story.
posted by dnash at 11:59 AM on January 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
Baxter, I think, has only overheard bits and pieces enough to get an idea of the whole story.
posted by dnash at 11:59 AM on January 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
Here's what the Wikipedia summary has to say:
At a party, Rose's indiscretion leads to card-sharp Mr. Sampson stealing a letter from the Prince of Wales to his mistress, Freda Dudley Ward from her handbag. Rose tells Lord Grantham, who mobilizes the family to get it back, and prevent scandal. He invites Sampson to a poker party, and asks Bates if he knows a forger who could fake a note from Sampson to his building's porter granting admission to his flat. Bates says he does, but forges the note himself, and Mary, Rose, and Charles Blake search his flat, but can't find the letter. As the players are leaving, Bates picks Sampson's pocket and retrieves it. Mrs Hughes finds a train ticket in Bates's coat for York to London on the day Green died. She tells Mary, and they agree to keep quiet; later Mary has an attack of conscience, and thinks she should reveal it, but after Bates is so loyal in retrieving the letter she burns the ticket.
posted by jbickers at 12:01 PM on January 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
At a party, Rose's indiscretion leads to card-sharp Mr. Sampson stealing a letter from the Prince of Wales to his mistress, Freda Dudley Ward from her handbag. Rose tells Lord Grantham, who mobilizes the family to get it back, and prevent scandal. He invites Sampson to a poker party, and asks Bates if he knows a forger who could fake a note from Sampson to his building's porter granting admission to his flat. Bates says he does, but forges the note himself, and Mary, Rose, and Charles Blake search his flat, but can't find the letter. As the players are leaving, Bates picks Sampson's pocket and retrieves it. Mrs Hughes finds a train ticket in Bates's coat for York to London on the day Green died. She tells Mary, and they agree to keep quiet; later Mary has an attack of conscience, and thinks she should reveal it, but after Bates is so loyal in retrieving the letter she burns the ticket.
posted by jbickers at 12:01 PM on January 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
I think Baxter also knows that Mr. Green was the cause of the rift between Anna and Bates, although she doesn't know specifics.
posted by donajo at 12:57 PM on January 5, 2015
posted by donajo at 12:57 PM on January 5, 2015
(Really I don't think I'd mind if she'd died. I'm rather bored with mopey Edith.)
Whatever you say, Mary.
posted by phunniemee at 1:02 PM on January 5, 2015 [12 favorites]
Whatever you say, Mary.
posted by phunniemee at 1:02 PM on January 5, 2015 [12 favorites]
Whatever you say, Mary.
What's that? I can't hear you, I'm upstairs taking off my hat.
posted by dnash at 1:50 PM on January 5, 2015 [17 favorites]
What's that? I can't hear you, I'm upstairs taking off my hat.
posted by dnash at 1:50 PM on January 5, 2015 [17 favorites]
* Lady Mary had perhaps the best line of the entire show so far, to rival the legendary "What's a 'weekend'?": "I'm going upstairs to take off my hat."
I read somewhere-- forget where--that explained that one nice little accuracy they have is that when the ladies are out of the house, they don't take off their hats. Your 'do and hat were a unit, so you really couldn't take off your hat when visiting, because you'd have the world's worst version of hat hair.
So I'm guessing that this means that Mary's taking off her hat = redoing her entire hairdo, and thus, would actually necessitate her going up stairs.
posted by damayanti at 2:48 PM on January 5, 2015 [7 favorites]
I read somewhere-- forget where--that explained that one nice little accuracy they have is that when the ladies are out of the house, they don't take off their hats. Your 'do and hat were a unit, so you really couldn't take off your hat when visiting, because you'd have the world's worst version of hat hair.
So I'm guessing that this means that Mary's taking off her hat = redoing her entire hairdo, and thus, would actually necessitate her going up stairs.
posted by damayanti at 2:48 PM on January 5, 2015 [7 favorites]
She's got to take out her hatpins and have her maid put the hat away, so where else would she go?
posted by Ideefixe at 3:23 PM on January 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Ideefixe at 3:23 PM on January 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
Edith is Jan Brady.
posted by heyho at 5:10 PM on January 5, 2015 [10 favorites]
posted by heyho at 5:10 PM on January 5, 2015 [10 favorites]
Who wouldn't be Jan Brady - or an arsonist, accidental or otherwise - with Mary as an older sister?
I watched the whole series marathon Thurs-Sun (and I'm exhausted, and very posh, but no one comes although I keep ringing this bell), and could not get over their exchange standing over Sybil's dead body:
Edith: “Oh, Mary, do you think we might get along a little better in the future?”
Mary: “I doubt it, but since this is the last time we three shall all be together in this life, let’s love each other now, as sisters should.”
(And yet I can't hate Mary, because Michelle Dockery is so adorable IRL)
posted by Sweetie Darling at 5:43 PM on January 5, 2015 [11 favorites]
I watched the whole series marathon Thurs-Sun (and I'm exhausted, and very posh, but no one comes although I keep ringing this bell), and could not get over their exchange standing over Sybil's dead body:
Edith: “Oh, Mary, do you think we might get along a little better in the future?”
Mary: “I doubt it, but since this is the last time we three shall all be together in this life, let’s love each other now, as sisters should.”
(And yet I can't hate Mary, because Michelle Dockery is so adorable IRL)
posted by Sweetie Darling at 5:43 PM on January 5, 2015 [11 favorites]
As an aside, I really liked the feature on Edwardian manners that was shown following this episode. The gentleman whose job it is to make sure everything, and everyone, looks and acts properly in-period-and-custom is a pretty engaging fellow, and obviously knows he has one of the best jobs evar.
posted by Thorzdad at 4:58 AM on January 6, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Thorzdad at 4:58 AM on January 6, 2015 [3 favorites]
gladly: "Barrow's scheming feels ridiculous this late in the series. I wish they'd give Thomas more to do than plot to ruin various members of the household staff."
Everybody needs more to do. I feel like I can see plot developments coming from across the estate, as they are so formulaic. Like the schoolteacher coming to dinner and making a scene, or Barrow's ass getting saved by dumb luck again. Their characters have been established well enough, now throw them a curve ball (or whatever you call it in cricket, a googly?) rather than just another disaster for them all to react to in the same ways as usual.
That said, I did like the episode, particularly Molesley's parts and the Dowager Countess' scheming. I'm still not sure how that is all supposed to come together though?
As an aside, how far is it from the Abbey to the Village?
posted by Rock Steady at 10:04 AM on January 6, 2015 [3 favorites]
Everybody needs more to do. I feel like I can see plot developments coming from across the estate, as they are so formulaic. Like the schoolteacher coming to dinner and making a scene, or Barrow's ass getting saved by dumb luck again. Their characters have been established well enough, now throw them a curve ball (or whatever you call it in cricket, a googly?) rather than just another disaster for them all to react to in the same ways as usual.
That said, I did like the episode, particularly Molesley's parts and the Dowager Countess' scheming. I'm still not sure how that is all supposed to come together though?
As an aside, how far is it from the Abbey to the Village?
posted by Rock Steady at 10:04 AM on January 6, 2015 [3 favorites]
A couple of things bothered me about Baxter's confession. First, she said that they caught her because her fingerprints were everywhere. But she is a lady's maid, her fingerprints should be everywhere in her mistress's dressing room and jewelry box. Second, she says she worked for Mr. XXX of YYY in London, not that she worked for Mrs. XXX. It just seems weird to me. I'm sure that O'Brien is off telling people that she worked for the Countess of Grantham, not the Earl of Grantham's wife.
I don't think either of those small things are meant to be clue to her past. This show is not usually that subtle. It just strikes me as weird storytelling.
Speaking of unsubtle storytelling, Daisy totally has dyslexia, amirite?
posted by donajo at 4:05 PM on January 6, 2015
I don't think either of those small things are meant to be clue to her past. This show is not usually that subtle. It just strikes me as weird storytelling.
Speaking of unsubtle storytelling, Daisy totally has dyslexia, amirite?
posted by donajo at 4:05 PM on January 6, 2015
I always thought Daisy was dumb, but I based that on her life choices entirely, not dyslexia.
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:53 PM on January 6, 2015
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:53 PM on January 6, 2015
I'm basing my armchair dyslexia diagnosis on the fact that she can calculate that 34 years from now would be 1958 offhand, but she can't read the math book. She's not dumb, she's just never had a proper education. I'm betting that Ms. Bunting ends up tutoring her before too long.
Although, I also thought it was weird that Mrs. Patmore and Anna were talking about Daisy choosing the path of being in service, as opposed to the path that Ms. Bunting chose to become a teacher. I'm guessing that Daisy didn't have a lot of options available to her when she started working as a kitchen maid.
posted by donajo at 8:21 PM on January 6, 2015
Although, I also thought it was weird that Mrs. Patmore and Anna were talking about Daisy choosing the path of being in service, as opposed to the path that Ms. Bunting chose to become a teacher. I'm guessing that Daisy didn't have a lot of options available to her when she started working as a kitchen maid.
posted by donajo at 8:21 PM on January 6, 2015
Not a disappointing or riveting return to the Abbey, but I'll take it.
I guess James is gone, eh? Which also helps remove one more person who knows Thomas' sexual orientation from the Abbey.
I have a bit of a struggle when I watch the show, as I want to enjoy the characters "upstairs" but generally, I'm a bit like Ms. Bunting, and think, "Well, boo hoo, the rich and titled gentry people are upset because they're not on a committee and getting the respect they know they deserve." It's really when the confinements of being the upper class, such as Edith's child being raised away from her, that I actually become more interested in the characters. As weird as it sounds, Edith is definitely my favorite over Mary (prior to Sybil's death - as she was the uber daughter).
I also found Bunting's comment which was something along the lines of, "The other side of the story" Or "Your story...." kind of snobbish, as if she was an enlightened individual, there to display her appreciation for the poor 'downstairs' people who toil on like modern day serfs. Likewise, maybe it's the Southerner in me, but while I agreed whole heartily with Bunting at the dinner table, I thought, 'Well, that's rather rude!" Cora and I should get together and exchange notes, me thinks.
For all that, I do enjoy the introduction of her and hope she kind of pushes our former driver to recall his wild socialist past. I did find it very amusing that the Earl quickly suggested Tom to take a look at the car, which one would think beneath someone of his present station. It revealed the Earl's own slip in the protocols of the world he loves so much.
The fire. Well. That happened. At least the Earl got to physically remind us of how much he loves his home (his third parent and fourth child0 by fighting the fire until the firemen arrived and not dumping the responsibility on the staff. Otherwise, it was just a plot device used entirely to put Thomas back in good graces and get Jimmy shipped off. Perhaps, as someone suggested, it will also be used to reveal the baby photo to someone who isn't awares.
Daisy. I like Daisy. She's not the swiftest of the bunch, but I want her to succeed, even more so than Alfred last season. Learn them maths, Daisy, ignore Mrs. Padmore!
posted by Atreides at 8:10 AM on January 7, 2015 [3 favorites]
I guess James is gone, eh? Which also helps remove one more person who knows Thomas' sexual orientation from the Abbey.
I have a bit of a struggle when I watch the show, as I want to enjoy the characters "upstairs" but generally, I'm a bit like Ms. Bunting, and think, "Well, boo hoo, the rich and titled gentry people are upset because they're not on a committee and getting the respect they know they deserve." It's really when the confinements of being the upper class, such as Edith's child being raised away from her, that I actually become more interested in the characters. As weird as it sounds, Edith is definitely my favorite over Mary (prior to Sybil's death - as she was the uber daughter).
I also found Bunting's comment which was something along the lines of, "The other side of the story" Or "Your story...." kind of snobbish, as if she was an enlightened individual, there to display her appreciation for the poor 'downstairs' people who toil on like modern day serfs. Likewise, maybe it's the Southerner in me, but while I agreed whole heartily with Bunting at the dinner table, I thought, 'Well, that's rather rude!" Cora and I should get together and exchange notes, me thinks.
For all that, I do enjoy the introduction of her and hope she kind of pushes our former driver to recall his wild socialist past. I did find it very amusing that the Earl quickly suggested Tom to take a look at the car, which one would think beneath someone of his present station. It revealed the Earl's own slip in the protocols of the world he loves so much.
The fire. Well. That happened. At least the Earl got to physically remind us of how much he loves his home (his third parent and fourth child0 by fighting the fire until the firemen arrived and not dumping the responsibility on the staff. Otherwise, it was just a plot device used entirely to put Thomas back in good graces and get Jimmy shipped off. Perhaps, as someone suggested, it will also be used to reveal the baby photo to someone who isn't awares.
Daisy. I like Daisy. She's not the swiftest of the bunch, but I want her to succeed, even more so than Alfred last season. Learn them maths, Daisy, ignore Mrs. Padmore!
posted by Atreides at 8:10 AM on January 7, 2015 [3 favorites]
I guess I'm a sucker, but I feel so sorry for poor Edith. They should officially change her name to Poor Edith. What other misery can get dumped on this girl? She's grown up in the glorious Lady Mary's shadow, and every chance of personal happiness that she's had not only gets spoiled, but horrifically so. Yes she was a brat way back in Season 1 (wasn't she the one who tattled to someone about Mary's indiscretion with the Turk?) but I think she's earned a little break by now.
The only thing in this episode that struck me as particularly lame was Jimmy and Whatsherface not noticing people running about shouting "Fire! Fire!" in the hallway because they're just SOOOOO passionate. Puh-leeze.
posted by Groovymomma at 11:30 AM on January 7, 2015 [3 favorites]
The only thing in this episode that struck me as particularly lame was Jimmy and Whatsherface not noticing people running about shouting "Fire! Fire!" in the hallway because they're just SOOOOO passionate. Puh-leeze.
posted by Groovymomma at 11:30 AM on January 7, 2015 [3 favorites]
I'm totally for recognizing Edith as Poor Edith.
Another character I've always felt bad for is Molesly. The guy exists to be the butt of all the jokes, but rarely has he been anything but a pretty good fellow. I really didn't find his hair distracting at all (I was watching a mediocre resolution on a tablet version of the episode), but it apparently enraged everyone within Downton Abbey, when they noticed. I'm glad they at least made him a confidant and supporter of Cora's lady.
Oh, and Maggie Smith's butler needs a swift kick in the pants. I'm sure I know a doctor who will prescribe such treatment.
posted by Atreides at 12:39 PM on January 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
Another character I've always felt bad for is Molesly. The guy exists to be the butt of all the jokes, but rarely has he been anything but a pretty good fellow. I really didn't find his hair distracting at all (I was watching a mediocre resolution on a tablet version of the episode), but it apparently enraged everyone within Downton Abbey, when they noticed. I'm glad they at least made him a confidant and supporter of Cora's lady.
Oh, and Maggie Smith's butler needs a swift kick in the pants. I'm sure I know a doctor who will prescribe such treatment.
posted by Atreides at 12:39 PM on January 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
Atreides: "Oh, and Maggie Smith's butler needs a swift kick in the pants. I'm sure I know a doctor who will prescribe such treatment."
Surely you don't mean Isobel's butler Sprat? That look Sprat had on his face when he was forced to serve cake to a lowly doctor was priceless.
posted by Rock Steady at 12:46 PM on January 7, 2015
Surely you don't mean Isobel's butler Sprat? That look Sprat had on his face when he was forced to serve cake to a lowly doctor was priceless.
posted by Rock Steady at 12:46 PM on January 7, 2015
No, Spratt is the butler of Violet, Dowager Countess of Grantham (Maggie Smith). He's a delightfully snobbish, nosy, argumentative, shitty butler! I love how very strange he is.
posted by heyho at 1:02 PM on January 7, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by heyho at 1:02 PM on January 7, 2015 [5 favorites]
There must be some reason for the Dowager Countess to put up with all of Spratt's crap. Can it really just be "it's so hard to find another butler"?
posted by tomboko at 4:00 PM on January 7, 2015
posted by tomboko at 4:00 PM on January 7, 2015
My hope is that Edith is going to be the breakout character of this season and what I think will likely be the next and last.
I think as the middle child, the writers have made her function as the middle of whatever spectrum they place her on. You had Mary, the one who's most entrenched in the system, the one who represents the continuation of the old order (of course she's the one who benefits the most from it). And then you had Sybil who represented the opposite extreme, (Nothing is true! Everything is permitted! I'm going to be a nurse and marry the chauffeur!) With Jessica Brown Findlay's departure, they've kind of written Rose into that role now.
And in the middle, you had Edith. Edith tries to sort of play by the rules, but never quite gets it right, whether through her own fault or because the rules are shitty to her as the not firstborn. So she breaks the rules, but discreetly, and in the service of getting the kind of life those rules say she should have. She doesn't want to marry the chauffeur. She wants to marry a nice rich socially prominent man and be in the position her family keeps saying she should be in, even if she has to pick a married commoner to do it.
What I want to see is the gradual revelation that Edith has had this baby, massive social condemnation from the upper crust, etc. And I expect Edith ultimately, at the climax of the show, to effectively break her chains and create her own future, saying yep, don't care about your scandal. Your rules have brought me nothing but misery. I'm going to claim my daughter and build a happy future for us and not care what you all think of it.
If they really want to make it up to her, they could bring back Gregson from whatever weird German limbo they've stuck him in. (Do you suppose the writers even know what happened to him?) But with or without him, that's what I think they're slowly building toward. The end of the show is Edith and her daughter leaving Downton, which will survive in some form under Mary's stewardship, and striking out into the uncharted future on her own with hope and courage. I hope so anyway.
posted by Naberius at 9:12 AM on January 8, 2015 [9 favorites]
I think as the middle child, the writers have made her function as the middle of whatever spectrum they place her on. You had Mary, the one who's most entrenched in the system, the one who represents the continuation of the old order (of course she's the one who benefits the most from it). And then you had Sybil who represented the opposite extreme, (Nothing is true! Everything is permitted! I'm going to be a nurse and marry the chauffeur!) With Jessica Brown Findlay's departure, they've kind of written Rose into that role now.
And in the middle, you had Edith. Edith tries to sort of play by the rules, but never quite gets it right, whether through her own fault or because the rules are shitty to her as the not firstborn. So she breaks the rules, but discreetly, and in the service of getting the kind of life those rules say she should have. She doesn't want to marry the chauffeur. She wants to marry a nice rich socially prominent man and be in the position her family keeps saying she should be in, even if she has to pick a married commoner to do it.
What I want to see is the gradual revelation that Edith has had this baby, massive social condemnation from the upper crust, etc. And I expect Edith ultimately, at the climax of the show, to effectively break her chains and create her own future, saying yep, don't care about your scandal. Your rules have brought me nothing but misery. I'm going to claim my daughter and build a happy future for us and not care what you all think of it.
If they really want to make it up to her, they could bring back Gregson from whatever weird German limbo they've stuck him in. (Do you suppose the writers even know what happened to him?) But with or without him, that's what I think they're slowly building toward. The end of the show is Edith and her daughter leaving Downton, which will survive in some form under Mary's stewardship, and striking out into the uncharted future on her own with hope and courage. I hope so anyway.
posted by Naberius at 9:12 AM on January 8, 2015 [9 favorites]
There was also the writing gig. I'd like to see her get back into that role of social commentary, of which, I doubt they would, given the introduction of Bunting.
posted by Atreides at 9:26 AM on January 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Atreides at 9:26 AM on January 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
I suppose people used the word that way then too?
Definitely not. It's just a total anachronism, like a lot of dialogue in the show. Or prochronism, if you will.
Pretty sure Baxter stole because someone she loved was in major trouble,
Here's my prediction. I think the Baxter and Bates plots are going to end up being linked. The show is not done with Bates - his is a long, long arc. I think we're going to find something out about Bates that ends up linking Grantham's beholdenness, Greene's death, Baxter's theft and his own ex-wife's murder. From the time he was introduced the show has dropped leaden hints that there was more to his story, and we still don't know it. My money is on him being a hinge amongst many characters and having more coercive power over some of them than we presently guess.
I love it when Cora shows unexpected sharpness and balls, as she did with both Baxter and Barrow. But I'm sorry she relented with Barrow and think it came much too fast. In her position at the moment, anyone might be grateful, but that wouldn't erase concerns about character.
I need to go watch the "manners" show. It bothers me that the level of familiarity between the servants and the family is just off the charts unrealistic, but without it, you'd have no show. I'm interested in how this consultant presents that.
posted by Miko at 7:27 PM on January 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
Definitely not. It's just a total anachronism, like a lot of dialogue in the show. Or prochronism, if you will.
Pretty sure Baxter stole because someone she loved was in major trouble,
Here's my prediction. I think the Baxter and Bates plots are going to end up being linked. The show is not done with Bates - his is a long, long arc. I think we're going to find something out about Bates that ends up linking Grantham's beholdenness, Greene's death, Baxter's theft and his own ex-wife's murder. From the time he was introduced the show has dropped leaden hints that there was more to his story, and we still don't know it. My money is on him being a hinge amongst many characters and having more coercive power over some of them than we presently guess.
I love it when Cora shows unexpected sharpness and balls, as she did with both Baxter and Barrow. But I'm sorry she relented with Barrow and think it came much too fast. In her position at the moment, anyone might be grateful, but that wouldn't erase concerns about character.
I need to go watch the "manners" show. It bothers me that the level of familiarity between the servants and the family is just off the charts unrealistic, but without it, you'd have no show. I'm interested in how this consultant presents that.
posted by Miko at 7:27 PM on January 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
Very entertaining: Downton Against Humanity.
posted by jbickers at 6:06 AM on January 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by jbickers at 6:06 AM on January 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
I watched the manners show after this. It looks like the historical consultant can influence dress and behavior and physical business but not the script, which explains my bafflement about why he would let a lot of the language and unrealistic plotlines pass.
posted by Miko at 9:36 AM on January 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Miko at 9:36 AM on January 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
They did sort of handwave at that. The historical consultant talked about the weird formality of relationships, how as a servant you never ever lay your own problems on the shoulders of the master. They even showed some examples of this between Robert and Bates, so I think they're not completely insensitive to that reality.
At the same time, they have to keep drama working largely through the tensions where those two worlds intersect, so they overplay it. He suggested that, social mores notwithstanding, these people were intimately in each others lives all the damn time and it's just not believable that those standards didn't slip sometimes, especially when out of the public eye.
posted by Naberius at 9:41 AM on January 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
At the same time, they have to keep drama working largely through the tensions where those two worlds intersect, so they overplay it. He suggested that, social mores notwithstanding, these people were intimately in each others lives all the damn time and it's just not believable that those standards didn't slip sometimes, especially when out of the public eye.
posted by Naberius at 9:41 AM on January 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
It's hard to believe that I watched this episode less than four months ago. It seems like at least a year. This whole season seemed kind of weird to me and I have a hard time remembering what exactly happened -- except that's been true for me from the very beginning of the show.
Downstairs is usually much more interesting the upstairs and the characters more engaging, but even though I like both Bates and Anna, I am unbelievably tired of their travails and I think it's been the worst choices the show has made with the downstairs characters. I'm sure I'm forgetting some egregious stuff -- there's a lot on this show -- but this neverending saga of theirs stands out.
I'm definitely on Team Edith. I'd hate Mary if she didn't have that weird magnetism -- her character is a pretty good representation of a self-involved and mostly shitty person who you still sort of like, or at least like to be around. That's a lot of narcissists, except the people closest to them usually don't like them that much. Mary is actually pretty likable often enough so that it makes sense that people close to her would actually like her. But often enough such an asshole that you keep wondering why.
Anyway, Edith has always been pretty hapless, and that's not attractive, but damnit she's a pretty decent person and I've long been quite invested in her happiness. She's seems more real to me than Mary or Sybil ever have.
For similar reasons I like Mosley.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 11:04 AM on January 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
Downstairs is usually much more interesting the upstairs and the characters more engaging, but even though I like both Bates and Anna, I am unbelievably tired of their travails and I think it's been the worst choices the show has made with the downstairs characters. I'm sure I'm forgetting some egregious stuff -- there's a lot on this show -- but this neverending saga of theirs stands out.
I'm definitely on Team Edith. I'd hate Mary if she didn't have that weird magnetism -- her character is a pretty good representation of a self-involved and mostly shitty person who you still sort of like, or at least like to be around. That's a lot of narcissists, except the people closest to them usually don't like them that much. Mary is actually pretty likable often enough so that it makes sense that people close to her would actually like her. But often enough such an asshole that you keep wondering why.
Anyway, Edith has always been pretty hapless, and that's not attractive, but damnit she's a pretty decent person and I've long been quite invested in her happiness. She's seems more real to me than Mary or Sybil ever have.
For similar reasons I like Mosley.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 11:04 AM on January 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
it's just not believable that those standards didn't slip sometimes,
Yeah, certainly they did, which we'd know from the court records of sexual assault if we didn't have any other way to find out. But at the same time, it's stuff like Mary chatting with Carson over coffee service about the committee nomination that really just calls for an as if.
I don't dislike Mary, and it's interesting to see that so many people do. I think she represents an oldest-child psychological burden and reveals the mentality of someone determined to prevail in a generally witless environment, but I'm not sure she's through-and-through horrible. She's tough and unsentimental. I think I agree with Slate where they say "it’s refreshing to see a soapy program place a figure like Mary front and center" - and it is refreshing to see a formidable female figure who's not being forced into one of only two or three tropes.
I think Molesley's a nice fellow. Edith, in real life, I would find untrustworthy because she's needy enough to do underhanded and inadvisable things. She is sympathetic, for all that.
posted by Miko at 12:16 PM on January 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
Yeah, certainly they did, which we'd know from the court records of sexual assault if we didn't have any other way to find out. But at the same time, it's stuff like Mary chatting with Carson over coffee service about the committee nomination that really just calls for an as if.
I don't dislike Mary, and it's interesting to see that so many people do. I think she represents an oldest-child psychological burden and reveals the mentality of someone determined to prevail in a generally witless environment, but I'm not sure she's through-and-through horrible. She's tough and unsentimental. I think I agree with Slate where they say "it’s refreshing to see a soapy program place a figure like Mary front and center" - and it is refreshing to see a formidable female figure who's not being forced into one of only two or three tropes.
I think Molesley's a nice fellow. Edith, in real life, I would find untrustworthy because she's needy enough to do underhanded and inadvisable things. She is sympathetic, for all that.
posted by Miko at 12:16 PM on January 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
"...and it is refreshing to see a formidable female figure who's not being forced into one of only two or three tropes."
I do agree with this and I approve of and enjoy her character aesthetically and sociopolitically. I don't like her as a person. I also don't like Barrow as a person. But I enjoy both of them on the show.
But back in terms of her personality, I agree with you about the things you like about her. I also like that she's "tough and unsentimental". I also find her intelligence admirable and attractive, as well as her wit. Those are key parts of the best of her personality -- the things about her that are, in fact, pretty likeable.
What I really dislike about her is that she is extremely emotionally self-involved coupled with being very unaware of (or uncaring of) the emotional and mental states of those around her. It's not just Edith -- she's just generally pretty oblivious to anyone else's inner-life. She doesn't notice and she doesn't much care. If she were malicious or just willfully hurtful, then this would be intolerable. Instead, it's more like what you're pointing at with her being the oldest child and also what other's have said about the privilege of the aristocracy -- Mary has lived with the privilege of not really ever needing to care about other people's inner-lives. She never learned how to pay attention. My sense is that it's not that she's deliberately or aggressively selfish, it's that she is just this way and has never needed to be otherwise. She's actually quite like her father in this respect -- he's a pretty decent person and when he actually opens his eyes and sees other people, he makes the right choices, more often than not. But usually he's not paying much attention and he's accustomed to everyone else paying attention to his moods and thoughts.
Tom is kind of Mary's opposite. He watches those around him carefully, and he sees a lot.
I see what you're saying about Edith being untrustworthy because of what I think is the push-pull of her neediness versus her essential passivity -- that kind of personality is prone to just tipping over the edge. But, even so, I would trust being close to an Edith sooner than I would trust being close to a Mary. I've been much more typically involved with Marys than Ediths, but that's because of what I'm attracted to and not because of what's good for me.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 1:42 PM on January 9, 2015 [3 favorites]
I do agree with this and I approve of and enjoy her character aesthetically and sociopolitically. I don't like her as a person. I also don't like Barrow as a person. But I enjoy both of them on the show.
But back in terms of her personality, I agree with you about the things you like about her. I also like that she's "tough and unsentimental". I also find her intelligence admirable and attractive, as well as her wit. Those are key parts of the best of her personality -- the things about her that are, in fact, pretty likeable.
What I really dislike about her is that she is extremely emotionally self-involved coupled with being very unaware of (or uncaring of) the emotional and mental states of those around her. It's not just Edith -- she's just generally pretty oblivious to anyone else's inner-life. She doesn't notice and she doesn't much care. If she were malicious or just willfully hurtful, then this would be intolerable. Instead, it's more like what you're pointing at with her being the oldest child and also what other's have said about the privilege of the aristocracy -- Mary has lived with the privilege of not really ever needing to care about other people's inner-lives. She never learned how to pay attention. My sense is that it's not that she's deliberately or aggressively selfish, it's that she is just this way and has never needed to be otherwise. She's actually quite like her father in this respect -- he's a pretty decent person and when he actually opens his eyes and sees other people, he makes the right choices, more often than not. But usually he's not paying much attention and he's accustomed to everyone else paying attention to his moods and thoughts.
Tom is kind of Mary's opposite. He watches those around him carefully, and he sees a lot.
I see what you're saying about Edith being untrustworthy because of what I think is the push-pull of her neediness versus her essential passivity -- that kind of personality is prone to just tipping over the edge. But, even so, I would trust being close to an Edith sooner than I would trust being close to a Mary. I've been much more typically involved with Marys than Ediths, but that's because of what I'm attracted to and not because of what's good for me.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 1:42 PM on January 9, 2015 [3 favorites]
coupled with being very unaware of (or uncaring of) the emotional and mental states of those around her...Mary has lived with the privilege of not really ever needing to care about other people's inner-lives. She never learned how to pay attention.
I have a more charitable reading, that she feels she can't afford to care because being awash in a mire of emotion and irrationality, as she is because she is surrounded by so many such emotional and irrational people, would create a family train wreck. Objectively driven decisionmaking is the strong suit of no one in the Grantham clan, which is why I think she feels she must take on that role on behalf of everyone else. That's what I mean about the burden. She sees emotion as a weakness, a deficit, something that's contributed to the demise or limitation of most people around her, and I read her as having decided it's a luxury she can't or won't allow herself because she sees herself as needing to be the savoir and honor of the family enterprise. She's also very concerned with control, which makes the will-she-remarry plot interesting. I don't think Mary really feels she has all that many choices, and she seems to feel the pressure of believing it absolutely essential that she always make all the right ones, even though she has almost no sane and wise guidance. Under those conditions, a lot of people become brittle and short with others, and I think that's why we see her being so rude to others. She doesn't feel life has given her much room to mess up, and doesn't give others much, either.
And Michelle Dockery is just a masterful actor. I can't stop marveling at how well she plays silence and inward thought and small expressions.
Tom, I agree, is decent and watchful and more generous than he needs to be and really, one of the most interesting, or at least potentially interesting, characters. I hope they do something with him worthy of that before the series ends.
I'll offer odds that Mary and Tom marry eventually.
posted by Miko at 2:18 PM on January 9, 2015 [6 favorites]
I have a more charitable reading, that she feels she can't afford to care because being awash in a mire of emotion and irrationality, as she is because she is surrounded by so many such emotional and irrational people, would create a family train wreck. Objectively driven decisionmaking is the strong suit of no one in the Grantham clan, which is why I think she feels she must take on that role on behalf of everyone else. That's what I mean about the burden. She sees emotion as a weakness, a deficit, something that's contributed to the demise or limitation of most people around her, and I read her as having decided it's a luxury she can't or won't allow herself because she sees herself as needing to be the savoir and honor of the family enterprise. She's also very concerned with control, which makes the will-she-remarry plot interesting. I don't think Mary really feels she has all that many choices, and she seems to feel the pressure of believing it absolutely essential that she always make all the right ones, even though she has almost no sane and wise guidance. Under those conditions, a lot of people become brittle and short with others, and I think that's why we see her being so rude to others. She doesn't feel life has given her much room to mess up, and doesn't give others much, either.
And Michelle Dockery is just a masterful actor. I can't stop marveling at how well she plays silence and inward thought and small expressions.
Tom, I agree, is decent and watchful and more generous than he needs to be and really, one of the most interesting, or at least potentially interesting, characters. I hope they do something with him worthy of that before the series ends.
I'll offer odds that Mary and Tom marry eventually.
posted by Miko at 2:18 PM on January 9, 2015 [6 favorites]
Should have said Crawley clan. I still get that mixed up.
needing to be the savoir and honor of the family enterprise.
Also that didn't even make sense. It's time to leave work and stop dividing my attention! Ugh. Hopefully you know what I mean.
posted by Miko at 2:24 PM on January 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
needing to be the savoir and honor of the family enterprise.
Also that didn't even make sense. It's time to leave work and stop dividing my attention! Ugh. Hopefully you know what I mean.
posted by Miko at 2:24 PM on January 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
I've recommended this book before all over the green, but for those of you guys who like the inner thoughts and struggles of the young aristocracy, go read Crome Yellow. It's short (you can read it in a weekend) and public domain so you can get it on your kindle for free. Hilarious, set in the Downton time period at a big ol manor house just like Downton, and all of the characters are self-absorbed and terrible and wonderful.
posted by phunniemee at 4:03 PM on January 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by phunniemee at 4:03 PM on January 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
Very entertaining: Downton Against Humanity.
Very entertaining, but the bizarre editing around the candle being lit and unlit drove me insane!
posted by gladly at 8:00 PM on January 9, 2015
Very entertaining, but the bizarre editing around the candle being lit and unlit drove me insane!
posted by gladly at 8:00 PM on January 9, 2015
I'll offer odds that Mary and Tom marry eventually.
Upon which, the show will blow its entire sfx budget on Lord Grantham's head exploding.
That said, I, too, hold a Mary/Tom hook-up dear to my heart.
posted by Thorzdad at 9:21 AM on January 14, 2015 [3 favorites]
Upon which, the show will blow its entire sfx budget on Lord Grantham's head exploding.
That said, I, too, hold a Mary/Tom hook-up dear to my heart.
posted by Thorzdad at 9:21 AM on January 14, 2015 [3 favorites]
I had a sudden bolt of lightning last night about who Lady Mary most reminds me of. Bear with me: it's Mildred Pierce, played by Joan Crawford in the 1945 movie. The two characters have the same dogged determination and sense of duty that compromises (some of) their relationships in the same way. If you like Lady Mary and you haven't seen it, I highly recommend it.
posted by Miko at 7:06 PM on January 17, 2015
posted by Miko at 7:06 PM on January 17, 2015
Although, the more I think about it, the more probable thing is a Tom/Edith hookup. They're much more akin in their thinking and feeling of not fitting in.
They keep making noise about Tom moving to America. Once the truth comes out about Edith's baby (and, it will, somehow. We all know it will), America would be a good place for her to escape the recrimination and shaming. Tom comes to her side and they head off to America.
posted by Thorzdad at 6:20 AM on January 21, 2015 [3 favorites]
They keep making noise about Tom moving to America. Once the truth comes out about Edith's baby (and, it will, somehow. We all know it will), America would be a good place for her to escape the recrimination and shaming. Tom comes to her side and they head off to America.
posted by Thorzdad at 6:20 AM on January 21, 2015 [3 favorites]
Very entertaining: Downton Against Humanity.
I love those women. Completely charming!
posted by Beti at 3:56 PM on February 3, 2015
I love those women. Completely charming!
posted by Beti at 3:56 PM on February 3, 2015
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* In typical Fellowes fashion, cause-and-effect are tightly woven: If Jimmy hadn't been in bed with his former boss, the entire abbey would likely have burned down and there would have been many fatalities. But he's likely to be fired for it, while Thomas is now a hero because he happened to be in the hallway where the smoke was.
* Lady Mary had perhaps the best line of the entire show so far, to rival the legendary "What's a 'weekend'?": "I'm going upstairs to take off my hat."
* The thing with Molesley's hair was hilarious, but I also like the fact that he's finally getting a chance to grow as a character and do something that benefits someone, i.e. his encouragement to Baxter.
posted by jbickers at 6:06 AM on January 5, 2015 [10 favorites]