The White Lotus: Italian Dream
November 9, 2022 1:01 PM - Season 2, Episode 2 - Subscribe
Tanya enlists Greg to help her live out her perfect Sicilian day. Harper questions Cameron and Daphne's claims about their marriage.
Count me all in for the sexual intrigue. Maybe the show won't have that much to say about class, etc., but I'm in a Portia mood, maybe I don't always want all that discourse, maybe I just want to have some fun. Must be the Italian setting; Italy always does something to me. (I fully expect to be devasted by the last episode - I'm so scared that anything will happen to the local girls... my heart sank when their names got recorded on Soprano guy's room. I had thought they were safe, not counting as guests of the hotel, but I guess now they do.)
Both of the young couples are a bit horrible, but in an entertaining way. I'm utterly mesmerized by Daphne - she's all sunshine and roses and blink-and-you-miss it joking menace - talking about vacations being a perfect opportunity for murdering spouses, reminding her husband she can always cut off his balls. If this season's corpses are not again the results of tragic accidents, but indeed, murder, I'm putting my money on her as the murderess.
Cameron does seem to love his wife - he had a nice moment at dinner, being all broken up about almost having lost her during a difficult pregancy. I buy it. Still, I'm not sure that his me-too-vibes are entirely baseless or that he's particularly sexually exclusive. I don't think he's genuinely trying to seduce Harper, but he did show her his ass on purpose. Maybe just to mess with her, put her off balance? Or maybe he's trying to lure her into a compromising situation, to prove to his buddy that she ain’t shit. He clearly thinks his friend could have done better. Maybe because he’s got designs on him himself? In the first episode, at dinner, when wondering about his friend’s lack of game in college, he says “I would do you” - why not take him at his word for that?
I'm also starting to really feel for Harper. Sure, she's clearly miserable in her marriage, and she's taking it out on others. But Daphne completely misses the point in her anaylsis of the problem, blaming it all on premature ball-breaking on Harper's part. I really don’t think that Harper's attitude is the biggest problem in her marriage - or if so, merely indirectly. True, her pushy demeanor probably got her into that mess - because this guy wouldn’t have married her, if she hadn’t told him to. Because he’s simply not actually into her. This episode she's already starting to be more accommodating, even vows to be "fun" from now onwards, and still, he outright rejects her advances on more than one occasion!
Cameron suggests that at college Ethan was always too busy for sex, and even though Harper hates Cameron and has found a way to disagree with everything else he says, she’s quick to confirm that this is still the case. I don’t think she saying that to undermine Ethan - she has just acquiesced to eat the damn fish, because she’s noticed she’s creating that impression. You get the sense it spills out of her in spite of herself - she’s clearly genuinely frustrated about it!
My take is that Ethan married Harper, because it was the path of least resistance, and she has never really been his type. I suspect he’ll end up cheating with Daphne, someone he would never have dared to even dream about before he got rich. Cameron’s probably got his number right - he really is the original incel who settled for a Harper/Becky, because he was convinced the Stacys/Daphnes are only for the Chad’s/Cameron’s of this world. Poor Harper! Right now she’s clearly over-compensating her insecurity in an obnoxious manner, but my bet is her insecurity is not unfounded.
I think it would be fun to have a proper love quadrangle - Harper actually wants Ethan, who actually wants Daphne, who actually wants Cameron, who actually wants Ethan. Cameron will finally convince everyone to have an orgy, and then everyone will be crushed when it becomes apparent, why everyone else agreed to the plan.
I'm already tired of the farty, flirty grandpa, but I'm afraid Portia isn't. She seems to find him more entertaining than Albie (who lost some points with me this episode with his nice guy's lament). This could go all in a very unpleasant direction, where Portia gives grandpa too much attention because she thinks he's cute and ultimately harmless, which he takes as encouragement to become even more obnoxious. That's the potential subplot I'm looking least forward to.
posted by sohalt at 3:16 PM on November 9, 2022 [2 favorites]
Both of the young couples are a bit horrible, but in an entertaining way. I'm utterly mesmerized by Daphne - she's all sunshine and roses and blink-and-you-miss it joking menace - talking about vacations being a perfect opportunity for murdering spouses, reminding her husband she can always cut off his balls. If this season's corpses are not again the results of tragic accidents, but indeed, murder, I'm putting my money on her as the murderess.
Cameron does seem to love his wife - he had a nice moment at dinner, being all broken up about almost having lost her during a difficult pregancy. I buy it. Still, I'm not sure that his me-too-vibes are entirely baseless or that he's particularly sexually exclusive. I don't think he's genuinely trying to seduce Harper, but he did show her his ass on purpose. Maybe just to mess with her, put her off balance? Or maybe he's trying to lure her into a compromising situation, to prove to his buddy that she ain’t shit. He clearly thinks his friend could have done better. Maybe because he’s got designs on him himself? In the first episode, at dinner, when wondering about his friend’s lack of game in college, he says “I would do you” - why not take him at his word for that?
I'm also starting to really feel for Harper. Sure, she's clearly miserable in her marriage, and she's taking it out on others. But Daphne completely misses the point in her anaylsis of the problem, blaming it all on premature ball-breaking on Harper's part. I really don’t think that Harper's attitude is the biggest problem in her marriage - or if so, merely indirectly. True, her pushy demeanor probably got her into that mess - because this guy wouldn’t have married her, if she hadn’t told him to. Because he’s simply not actually into her. This episode she's already starting to be more accommodating, even vows to be "fun" from now onwards, and still, he outright rejects her advances on more than one occasion!
Cameron suggests that at college Ethan was always too busy for sex, and even though Harper hates Cameron and has found a way to disagree with everything else he says, she’s quick to confirm that this is still the case. I don’t think she saying that to undermine Ethan - she has just acquiesced to eat the damn fish, because she’s noticed she’s creating that impression. You get the sense it spills out of her in spite of herself - she’s clearly genuinely frustrated about it!
My take is that Ethan married Harper, because it was the path of least resistance, and she has never really been his type. I suspect he’ll end up cheating with Daphne, someone he would never have dared to even dream about before he got rich. Cameron’s probably got his number right - he really is the original incel who settled for a Harper/Becky, because he was convinced the Stacys/Daphnes are only for the Chad’s/Cameron’s of this world. Poor Harper! Right now she’s clearly over-compensating her insecurity in an obnoxious manner, but my bet is her insecurity is not unfounded.
I think it would be fun to have a proper love quadrangle - Harper actually wants Ethan, who actually wants Daphne, who actually wants Cameron, who actually wants Ethan. Cameron will finally convince everyone to have an orgy, and then everyone will be crushed when it becomes apparent, why everyone else agreed to the plan.
I'm already tired of the farty, flirty grandpa, but I'm afraid Portia isn't. She seems to find him more entertaining than Albie (who lost some points with me this episode with his nice guy's lament). This could go all in a very unpleasant direction, where Portia gives grandpa too much attention because she thinks he's cute and ultimately harmless, which he takes as encouragement to become even more obnoxious. That's the potential subplot I'm looking least forward to.
posted by sohalt at 3:16 PM on November 9, 2022 [2 favorites]
I'm putting my money on her as the murderess.
I wouldn't put my money on this since she's the one who discovers the bodies in the opening scene of e1 right? Also keeping in mind that it opens with her last day at the resort and she's glowing to the other guests on the beach about how great of a time she had and how much she'll miss it, etc - so I'm thinking nothing particularly juicy or terrible happens with her for the duration of the trip (or at least, that she's aware of).
She seems to find him more entertaining than Albie (who lost some points with me this episode with his nice guy's lament)
I'm guessing this was intentional - sensed he was definitely supposed to be giving us (and Portia) a bit of the ick factor here.
posted by windbox at 6:45 AM on November 10, 2022 [1 favorite]
I wouldn't put my money on this since she's the one who discovers the bodies in the opening scene of e1 right? Also keeping in mind that it opens with her last day at the resort and she's glowing to the other guests on the beach about how great of a time she had and how much she'll miss it, etc - so I'm thinking nothing particularly juicy or terrible happens with her for the duration of the trip (or at least, that she's aware of).
She seems to find him more entertaining than Albie (who lost some points with me this episode with his nice guy's lament)
I'm guessing this was intentional - sensed he was definitely supposed to be giving us (and Portia) a bit of the ick factor here.
posted by windbox at 6:45 AM on November 10, 2022 [1 favorite]
I wouldn't put my money on this since she's the one who discovers the bodies in the opening scene of e1 right? Also keeping in mind that it opens with her last day at the resort and she's glowing to the other guests on the beach about how great of a time she had and how much she'll miss it...
Could be deliberate misdirection on her part! Maybe she wants witnessess to her own shock and surprise, because she knows what she'll find. Don't you get a sense she's bracing for something when she steps in the water - really just for the cold? I honestly thought she came off a bit weird in that conversation with the other tourists, a bit needy (she kept it up a bit too long; those tourists were clearly just politely humouring her, not terribly interested in small talk), a bit spacey, almost melancholic...
At any rate, we certainly know that she's not one of the corpses, so that increases her likelihood of being the murderess.
I'm guessing this was intentional - sensed he was definitely supposed to be giving us (and Portia) a bit of the ick factor here.
Yeah, it seems like Albie is being set up to be actually the worst, even more of a hypocrite than his dad. It's clear already that he and Portia are sadly mismatched - she wants a fun fling, he wants to be a knight in shining armor (she may not be a wounded bird, but she's a princess in a tower, imprisoned by her evil boss). He's not getting the hint and is setting himself up for disappointment, which he will surly handle very badly (probably without resorting to physical violence though; I rather see him snitching on Portia about breaking the NDA, or the very least threatening her with that...). I just hope it won't end up as a quasi-vindication of the old leech ("at least he's honest about it...").
posted by sohalt at 9:31 AM on November 10, 2022 [2 favorites]
Could be deliberate misdirection on her part! Maybe she wants witnessess to her own shock and surprise, because she knows what she'll find. Don't you get a sense she's bracing for something when she steps in the water - really just for the cold? I honestly thought she came off a bit weird in that conversation with the other tourists, a bit needy (she kept it up a bit too long; those tourists were clearly just politely humouring her, not terribly interested in small talk), a bit spacey, almost melancholic...
At any rate, we certainly know that she's not one of the corpses, so that increases her likelihood of being the murderess.
I'm guessing this was intentional - sensed he was definitely supposed to be giving us (and Portia) a bit of the ick factor here.
Yeah, it seems like Albie is being set up to be actually the worst, even more of a hypocrite than his dad. It's clear already that he and Portia are sadly mismatched - she wants a fun fling, he wants to be a knight in shining armor (she may not be a wounded bird, but she's a princess in a tower, imprisoned by her evil boss). He's not getting the hint and is setting himself up for disappointment, which he will surly handle very badly (probably without resorting to physical violence though; I rather see him snitching on Portia about breaking the NDA, or the very least threatening her with that...). I just hope it won't end up as a quasi-vindication of the old leech ("at least he's honest about it...").
posted by sohalt at 9:31 AM on November 10, 2022 [2 favorites]
I loved every minute of Tanya and Greg's Vespa trip: from its conception as a poorly communicated dream, through to the everything about what they chose to wear and how they chose to drive. I also loved the interplay between Valentina, Lucia and Mia. And Mia's knock-em dead surprise rendition of The Best Things in Life are Free (Beatrice Grannò) - there were moments where I was a bit disappointed that we are in a murder mystery with a finite amount of time - because the characters and location and so much fun.
(Beatrice in session with some other songs)
posted by rongorongo at 1:36 AM on November 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
(Beatrice in session with some other songs)
posted by rongorongo at 1:36 AM on November 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
Monica Vitti, for anyone else who didn't quite put together Tanya's Italian film fantasy. She really did look like her!
Favorite part of this episode was watching Aubrey Plaza do her thing; she's a fantastic actor. Wondering where my F Murray Abraham is at, he's gotta bring in a stern grandpa thing at some point.
I'm on the fence about the story. We've had two episodes now to establish characters so I'm waiting for the inversion where everyone is the opposite of what they seem at first.
posted by Nelson at 10:38 AM on November 26, 2022
Favorite part of this episode was watching Aubrey Plaza do her thing; she's a fantastic actor. Wondering where my F Murray Abraham is at, he's gotta bring in a stern grandpa thing at some point.
I'm on the fence about the story. We've had two episodes now to establish characters so I'm waiting for the inversion where everyone is the opposite of what they seem at first.
posted by Nelson at 10:38 AM on November 26, 2022
I know it is too much to hope for, but I would like for Greg to be murdered.
posted by the primroses were over at 5:34 AM on November 30, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by the primroses were over at 5:34 AM on November 30, 2022 [2 favorites]
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I've been rewatching the original season, and... maybe it's just me, but I've found this season a lot more compelling off-the-bat. Its focus (sexual intrigue) is maybe less innately weighty than the colonialist themes of the original, but I'm a lot more immediately invested in the characters right off the bat. And while some full-season reviewers felt like it didn't "build to enough" for them, they also only saw five out of the season's seven episodes; I'm not sure if I'd have thought, four out of six episodes into the original season, that it was going to stick the landing, or that the impact would have any weight to it at all. So I'm hoping that White has a plan for this one too.
Do Mia and Lucia feel like an ample-enough coverage of the "non-elites" this season? Does Portia? I like all three, but they certainly don't feel as weighty as Belinda, Armand, and (briefly) Lani. And I'm wondering whether Valentia's arc will pick up, too.
Of the main foursome—Cameron and Daphne, Harper and Ethan—what are people's thoughts? I feel like you could make a pretty solid case for liking or despising any combination of the four.
posted by Tom Hanks Cannot Be Trusted at 1:09 PM on November 9, 2022 [3 favorites]