The Menu (2022)
November 17, 2022 10:36 PM - Subscribe
A couple (Anya Taylor-Joy and Nicholas Hoult) travels to a coastal island to eat at an exclusive restaurant where the chef (Ralph Fiennes) has prepared a lavish menu, with some shocking surprises.
The trailer makes this look a little one-note, but Fiennes and Taylor-Joy infuse more interest into the proceedings. Set design is spot-on, and Taylor-Joy attempts to bring back the nineties singlehandedly with her outfit.
CN: zero cannibalism
The trailer makes this look a little one-note, but Fiennes and Taylor-Joy infuse more interest into the proceedings. Set design is spot-on, and Taylor-Joy attempts to bring back the nineties singlehandedly with her outfit.
CN: zero cannibalism
*70s TV movie* Tonight...murder is on the menu.
posted by praemunire at 3:49 PM on November 18, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by praemunire at 3:49 PM on November 18, 2022 [2 favorites]
Watched this again this evening and was pleased to note a fair amount of subtle foreshadowing in the first half-hour. It really does all fit together neatly.
Also, can now confirm there is a moment which has the power to yank an audible "WHAT THE FUCK?!?" from more than one jaded NYC audience.
posted by praemunire at 10:47 PM on November 30, 2022 [4 favorites]
Also, can now confirm there is a moment which has the power to yank an audible "WHAT THE FUCK?!?" from more than one jaded NYC audience.
posted by praemunire at 10:47 PM on November 30, 2022 [4 favorites]
This is the kind of film that makes me enjoy going into films totally cold. A really delightful and surprising work.
posted by Cogito at 6:58 AM on December 3, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by Cogito at 6:58 AM on December 3, 2022 [4 favorites]
Yeah, genuinely surprised this hasn't gotten more love from Mefi (unless it's because people think it's about cannibalism).
posted by praemunire at 10:58 AM on December 3, 2022
posted by praemunire at 10:58 AM on December 3, 2022
I absolutely loved this and will have much more to say, but for now, before someone else takes this line:
This is Charlie and the Chocolate Factory and Margo is Charlie Bucket.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 11:45 AM on December 3, 2022 [19 favorites]
This is Charlie and the Chocolate Factory and Margo is Charlie Bucket.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 11:45 AM on December 3, 2022 [19 favorites]
One of the wonderful things about this movie is that the viewers go in with preconceptions just like the diners themselves in terms of what they are about to be served.
Warning there be spoilers here and I don't know how to do that thing where you hide spoilers. So BE WARNED.
When the tortilla course is served, the plot seems to be going in the expected direction-the chef knows their sins and is going to give them appropriate punishments. But nope, he's not really interested in that. It's a set up and knock down with expectations, just like when the female staff member reveals her part in developing the plan. Chef didn't come up with this master plan and subordinate them into it. It's a genuinely collaborative effort like what you see in the kitchen. And the person who hid the best getting a culinary reward is just adorable. There's no hunting them down and killing them, it's just a game for a little treat.
And the ending is superbly well done. Margo points out chef's own complicity in this. He could give it up. And this is why he chooses to spare her. Just like he chooses to let himself be stabbed, he chooses to let her go because he realizes his own guilt in building this situation. Because she is able to resurrect, if only briefly, that joy he experienced early in his career. I do admit the ending being smores particularly amused me considering the smores challenge this season in GBBO. One of those perfect little coincidences.
posted by miss-lapin at 12:58 PM on December 3, 2022 [12 favorites]
Warning there be spoilers here and I don't know how to do that thing where you hide spoilers. So BE WARNED.
When the tortilla course is served, the plot seems to be going in the expected direction-the chef knows their sins and is going to give them appropriate punishments. But nope, he's not really interested in that. It's a set up and knock down with expectations, just like when the female staff member reveals her part in developing the plan. Chef didn't come up with this master plan and subordinate them into it. It's a genuinely collaborative effort like what you see in the kitchen. And the person who hid the best getting a culinary reward is just adorable. There's no hunting them down and killing them, it's just a game for a little treat.
And the ending is superbly well done. Margo points out chef's own complicity in this. He could give it up. And this is why he chooses to spare her. Just like he chooses to let himself be stabbed, he chooses to let her go because he realizes his own guilt in building this situation. Because she is able to resurrect, if only briefly, that joy he experienced early in his career. I do admit the ending being smores particularly amused me considering the smores challenge this season in GBBO. One of those perfect little coincidences.
posted by miss-lapin at 12:58 PM on December 3, 2022 [12 favorites]
I forgot to add-another point that people make is the lack of fighting back. The staff to diner ratio really doesn't favor an attempt at revolt especially since the staff know the island intimately and are armed quite well. This is an another subversion of expectation. The diners, for the most part, accept their fate. One reviewer noted that it's because the plan plays upon how the diners are used to being indulged. They no longer know how to deal with anyone who thwarts their wishes and so just kind of go with the flow when confronted with who refutes their power. Note how easily one staff member deals with the "finance bros" and their "Do you know who we work for?" Once that threat is removed, they just fold.
But it also fits with Tyler going along with this plan. They are so invested with Chef's vision that they don't seem particularly motivated to escape. It plays to their egos that they are to be part of his final dinner service.
posted by miss-lapin at 1:08 PM on December 3, 2022 [7 favorites]
But it also fits with Tyler going along with this plan. They are so invested with Chef's vision that they don't seem particularly motivated to escape. It plays to their egos that they are to be part of his final dinner service.
posted by miss-lapin at 1:08 PM on December 3, 2022 [7 favorites]
he chooses to let her go because he realizes his own guilt in building this situation. Because she is able to resurrect, if only briefly, that joy he experienced early in his career.
More the latter than the former, I think? It's clear early on that he recognizes his own complicity in the process. It's the cheeseburger that reaches him.
And what a cheeseburger, man. I almost levitated out of my seat with longing.
posted by praemunire at 9:32 PM on December 3, 2022 [5 favorites]
More the latter than the former, I think? It's clear early on that he recognizes his own complicity in the process. It's the cheeseburger that reaches him.
And what a cheeseburger, man. I almost levitated out of my seat with longing.
posted by praemunire at 9:32 PM on December 3, 2022 [5 favorites]
I went out and immediately got a cheeseburger after seeing this, no joke.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 6:34 AM on December 4, 2022 [8 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 6:34 AM on December 4, 2022 [8 favorites]
This was perfectly executed. There was not a scene that could have been shorter or longer, a character who could have been omitted or added, a satirical point that was left unexplored or overly hammered upon.
I had to pee for the last 40 minutes, but did not and could not leave because it was obvious by that point that it was never going to take a breath and nothing was shippable.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 6:37 AM on December 4, 2022 [4 favorites]
I had to pee for the last 40 minutes, but did not and could not leave because it was obvious by that point that it was never going to take a breath and nothing was shippable.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 6:37 AM on December 4, 2022 [4 favorites]
I think he let Margo go because of a complex combination of factors, all of which were perfectly set up and earned.
Her cheeseburger gambit showed that:
-She was superlative at her service industry job, and could identify his longing and deliver upon it
-It showed that she had an appreciation for well-made food that was sincere and not performative or class-based, that she could appreciate and accept the gift of excellent cooking
-It gave him a chance to relive the joy he had first felt cooking
-It was an elegantly constructed addition to the night's narrative that permitted the restaurant to release her without spoiling the larger performance
I also appreciated how the other diners recognized the genius of what she had done, were--by then--in grim recognition of how they were getting something they maybe deserved, and wanted her to escape.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 6:42 AM on December 4, 2022 [20 favorites]
Her cheeseburger gambit showed that:
-She was superlative at her service industry job, and could identify his longing and deliver upon it
-It showed that she had an appreciation for well-made food that was sincere and not performative or class-based, that she could appreciate and accept the gift of excellent cooking
-It gave him a chance to relive the joy he had first felt cooking
-It was an elegantly constructed addition to the night's narrative that permitted the restaurant to release her without spoiling the larger performance
I also appreciated how the other diners recognized the genius of what she had done, were--by then--in grim recognition of how they were getting something they maybe deserved, and wanted her to escape.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 6:42 AM on December 4, 2022 [20 favorites]
I have only one, tiny, niggling complaint.
While I can, actually, believe that the final result of the world's most intensely over-the-top luxury fine dining restaurant is a death cult, I really do not believe that a mega uber hyper ultra rich person restaurant on a private island with a live-in staff and infinite high end ingredients could subsist on $15,000 ($1,250 x 12 diners) per day. No fucking way.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 6:57 AM on December 4, 2022 [9 favorites]
While I can, actually, believe that the final result of the world's most intensely over-the-top luxury fine dining restaurant is a death cult, I really do not believe that a mega uber hyper ultra rich person restaurant on a private island with a live-in staff and infinite high end ingredients could subsist on $15,000 ($1,250 x 12 diners) per day. No fucking way.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 6:57 AM on December 4, 2022 [9 favorites]
God, I fucked up typing that one comment on my phone. There NOT anything that could have been different. Nothing was SKIPPABLE.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:12 AM on December 4, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:12 AM on December 4, 2022 [3 favorites]
I wondered about the price, too, especially as the price seemed to include the wine pairings, normally the place to make up a lot of profit. Willows Inn (closest real-world analogue) cost a few hundred bucks, but then I think most of the guests also stayed overnight at the residential part, which I'm sure bumped up the revenues drastically. I also don't know how many covers they had.
She was superlative at her service industry job, and could identify his longing and deliver upon it
Good point.
I think it's important not to overstress how much the diners perceived themselves (and we're supposed to perceive them) as maybe getting what was coming to them. The actor's assistant is dying (from Slowik's POV) for her family's being able to afford Brown. The actor is dying for being washed-up. The older woman played by Judith Light is dying for...mixing up cod and halibut in her memory after being aggressively challenged on it? It's clear to me that Slowik's obsession and fury has left him unable to distinguish between minor offenses and major ones, and indifferent to collateral damage. Which is psychologically plausible.
posted by praemunire at 9:42 AM on December 4, 2022 [6 favorites]
She was superlative at her service industry job, and could identify his longing and deliver upon it
Good point.
I think it's important not to overstress how much the diners perceived themselves (and we're supposed to perceive them) as maybe getting what was coming to them. The actor's assistant is dying (from Slowik's POV) for her family's being able to afford Brown. The actor is dying for being washed-up. The older woman played by Judith Light is dying for...mixing up cod and halibut in her memory after being aggressively challenged on it? It's clear to me that Slowik's obsession and fury has left him unable to distinguish between minor offenses and major ones, and indifferent to collateral damage. Which is psychologically plausible.
posted by praemunire at 9:42 AM on December 4, 2022 [6 favorites]
Judith Light is dying for...mixing up cod and halibut
She and her husband are dying because they didn't care about the food. Neither could name a single memorable dish. To Slowik whose life is invested in created these one of a kind culinary delights, not remembering or appreciating them is their sin.
posted by miss-lapin at 4:08 PM on December 4, 2022 [7 favorites]
She and her husband are dying because they didn't care about the food. Neither could name a single memorable dish. To Slowik whose life is invested in created these one of a kind culinary delights, not remembering or appreciating them is their sin.
posted by miss-lapin at 4:08 PM on December 4, 2022 [7 favorites]
If the bit with the assistant seems less damning than the others, it's likely because the screenwriter couldn't resist this exchange:
"What about me?"
"What college did you go to?"
"Brown."
"Student loans?"
"No."
"You're dying."
I don't think we're supposed to read that as a thoughtful indictment of the sins of the parents being visited upon the child. I think it's supposed to read as:
"Isn't it a mistake that I'm here, too?"
"Is it? Where did you go to school?"
"Brown."
"Oh, wow, were you like a scholarship kid or someone who had to struggle to get there?"
"Uh, no."
"Then fuck you, you're rich. Back to the thing we were doing before."
Anyway, when I mention that to some extent they know they have this coming even if Margo does not, I am not saying they have completely bought in and are cool with the plan. I'm referring to the little nods and encouragement to go that they give Margo.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 4:37 PM on December 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
"What about me?"
"What college did you go to?"
"Brown."
"Student loans?"
"No."
"You're dying."
I don't think we're supposed to read that as a thoughtful indictment of the sins of the parents being visited upon the child. I think it's supposed to read as:
"Isn't it a mistake that I'm here, too?"
"Is it? Where did you go to school?"
"Brown."
"Oh, wow, were you like a scholarship kid or someone who had to struggle to get there?"
"Uh, no."
"Then fuck you, you're rich. Back to the thing we were doing before."
Anyway, when I mention that to some extent they know they have this coming even if Margo does not, I am not saying they have completely bought in and are cool with the plan. I'm referring to the little nods and encouragement to go that they give Margo.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 4:37 PM on December 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
She and her husband are dying because they didn't care about the food. Neither could name a single memorable dish. To Slowik whose life is invested in created these one of a kind culinary delights, not remembering or appreciating them is their sin.
And as someone who enjoys food I'm going to say that it's a waste, but not something to kill someone over. It's not even aggressively obnoxious in the vein of the (beautifully-parodied) critic. I get why Slowik wanted to kill her, but Slowik is an obsessive maniac. I don't think the audience is supposed to go, oooh, all these people, getting their exact fitting just deserts! That would be a somewhat different, and less subtle, movie.
posted by praemunire at 8:13 PM on December 4, 2022 [4 favorites]
And as someone who enjoys food I'm going to say that it's a waste, but not something to kill someone over. It's not even aggressively obnoxious in the vein of the (beautifully-parodied) critic. I get why Slowik wanted to kill her, but Slowik is an obsessive maniac. I don't think the audience is supposed to go, oooh, all these people, getting their exact fitting just deserts! That would be a somewhat different, and less subtle, movie.
posted by praemunire at 8:13 PM on December 4, 2022 [4 favorites]
I don't think the audience is supposed to go, oooh, all these people, getting their exact fitting just deserts!
I said in an earlier comment that film sets up for this expectation with the tortillas, but then subverts that expectation so I agree.
posted by miss-lapin at 9:20 PM on December 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
I said in an earlier comment that film sets up for this expectation with the tortillas, but then subverts that expectation so I agree.
posted by miss-lapin at 9:20 PM on December 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
Just saw this tonight and really enjoyed it. It reminded me of a foodie version of Midsommer.
posted by emd3737 at 9:00 PM on December 9, 2022 [11 favorites]
posted by emd3737 at 9:00 PM on December 9, 2022 [11 favorites]
Dying by marshmallow fire would be so painful.
posted by iamkimiam at 2:08 PM on January 5, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by iamkimiam at 2:08 PM on January 5, 2023 [3 favorites]
The earlier post that likened the premise to a ‘70s movie is somewhat apt because it’s important to envision Slowik as an old-timey cinematic archetype, a maniac homicidal obsessive. He’s not meant to be wholly sympathetic. He can just be a lunatic in a stock villain way.
posted by Apocryphon at 11:34 PM on January 5, 2023
posted by Apocryphon at 11:34 PM on January 5, 2023
It reminded me of a foodie version of Midsommer.
Slowik also had some of the deranged charm of Lord Summerisle from the Wicker Man, which it also faintly reminded me of.
I haven’t gone back to check yet, but it looked to me like “cheeseburger” was on the copies of the menu in their gift bags? Are we supposed to conclude Slowik deliberately engineered someone wanting a cheeseburger by that course? Or that he would have served it either way to someone?
posted by Jon Mitchell at 12:28 AM on January 6, 2023 [3 favorites]
Slowik also had some of the deranged charm of Lord Summerisle from the Wicker Man, which it also faintly reminded me of.
I haven’t gone back to check yet, but it looked to me like “cheeseburger” was on the copies of the menu in their gift bags? Are we supposed to conclude Slowik deliberately engineered someone wanting a cheeseburger by that course? Or that he would have served it either way to someone?
posted by Jon Mitchell at 12:28 AM on January 6, 2023 [3 favorites]
It looked like it was on her copy of the menu. They were probably generating the menus on the fly, so could update hers. IIRC she got her bag as takeaway (she was definitely handed a bag with her leftovers, she was definitely not carrying two bags as she ran, but I don't remember if we saw her getting a bag with the other guests slightly earlier).
posted by praemunire at 7:31 AM on January 6, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by praemunire at 7:31 AM on January 6, 2023 [3 favorites]
I wouldn't think too much about it, because the snarky smartass food captions had Adam McKay's production paw prints all over this movie, and were obnoxious imo
posted by Apocryphon at 2:21 PM on January 6, 2023
posted by Apocryphon at 2:21 PM on January 6, 2023
the snarky smartass food captions
They were a very accurate parody? I could show you a hundred menus like that, minus ingredients like "the staff," of course.
posted by praemunire at 2:52 PM on January 6, 2023 [7 favorites]
They were a very accurate parody? I could show you a hundred menus like that, minus ingredients like "the staff," of course.
posted by praemunire at 2:52 PM on January 6, 2023 [7 favorites]
I have mentioned this before, but Comrade Doll worked at a restaurant that specified the name of the cow the milk used in the recipe came from. It was Fatima. High end restaurant menus are beyond parody.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 2:58 PM on January 6, 2023 [9 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 2:58 PM on January 6, 2023 [9 favorites]
Just watched this and now am curious about analysis of the meaning of the progression of the dishes, as I thought this was emphasized early on. This talks about each individual course (and gets some details wrong?) but doesn't tie them together.
posted by achrise at 5:30 PM on January 8, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by achrise at 5:30 PM on January 8, 2023 [1 favorite]
My read on Tyler kept changing. As the other diners gradually realized the gravity of the situation, Tyler seemed to be oblivious, and I figured he was just too preoccupied by the food to process what was going on.
Then it emerged that he’d been told everyone at the meal would be dying. At that point I couldn’t decide — did he hear “everyone will die” and just fail to believe it? Or was he so much of an obsessive foodie poser that he decided that death was… worth it? Neither answer seems satisfying to me.
By the movie’s rubric, he is certainly among the more deserving of the victims — the script makes damn sure that you dislike the guy before the amuse-bouche. So this isn’t about whether he deserved to die. I’m more curious about whether he actually realized he was going to die before being driven to suicide by his idol.
posted by savetheclocktower at 10:18 PM on January 10, 2023
Then it emerged that he’d been told everyone at the meal would be dying. At that point I couldn’t decide — did he hear “everyone will die” and just fail to believe it? Or was he so much of an obsessive foodie poser that he decided that death was… worth it? Neither answer seems satisfying to me.
By the movie’s rubric, he is certainly among the more deserving of the victims — the script makes damn sure that you dislike the guy before the amuse-bouche. So this isn’t about whether he deserved to die. I’m more curious about whether he actually realized he was going to die before being driven to suicide by his idol.
posted by savetheclocktower at 10:18 PM on January 10, 2023
miss-lapin: " Judith Light is dying for...mixing up cod and halibut
She and her husband are dying because they didn't care about the food. Neither could name a single memorable dish. To Slowik whose life is invested in created these one of a kind culinary delights, not remembering or appreciating them is their sin."
This is right to me, but honestly I think that scene could’ve laid out the case more clearly. It’s not like he would’ve spared them if they’d remembered the name of the dish. Their continued presence at the restaurant is just proof that they are participants in a system that has taken something pure and simple and turned it into yet another thing for rich people to pervert and turn into a status symbol. Slowik’s talent was a balm for a grim childhood and now he’s using it to make comfortable people feel important.
There’s a pretty clear parallel to art forms of various kinds. Imagine having your acting passion ignited on a high school stage… and having to protect that vulnerable flame through an acting career that, if successful, will find you attached to and removed from various projects, sitting in trailers waiting to film scenes, and spending much more time promoting the film at junkets than you spent acting in it in the first place.
The theme of the menu is to burn down the artifice — which includes Slowik. He realizes that he should’ve resisted the siren song. The best version of him would’ve limited his fame to — at most — a six-minute feature on Diners, Drive-Ins & Dives. I can imagine Guy Fieri watching this movie at home and suddenly pointing at his TV, DiCaprio meme–style, and shouting that finally SOMEONE understands what he’s been trying to say.
---
Somewhat relatedly: I’m reminded of The Bear and its rhyming (if more optimistic) views about the toxicity of restaurant culture.
---
Arguably related, too: the sommelier at the restaurant is the guy who spent years in a double act doing commercials for Sonic. Either that was an intentional wink by the filmmakers or it's just coincidental and that dude maybe just wishes people would stop pointing it out.
posted by savetheclocktower at 11:03 PM on January 10, 2023 [6 favorites]
She and her husband are dying because they didn't care about the food. Neither could name a single memorable dish. To Slowik whose life is invested in created these one of a kind culinary delights, not remembering or appreciating them is their sin."
This is right to me, but honestly I think that scene could’ve laid out the case more clearly. It’s not like he would’ve spared them if they’d remembered the name of the dish. Their continued presence at the restaurant is just proof that they are participants in a system that has taken something pure and simple and turned it into yet another thing for rich people to pervert and turn into a status symbol. Slowik’s talent was a balm for a grim childhood and now he’s using it to make comfortable people feel important.
There’s a pretty clear parallel to art forms of various kinds. Imagine having your acting passion ignited on a high school stage… and having to protect that vulnerable flame through an acting career that, if successful, will find you attached to and removed from various projects, sitting in trailers waiting to film scenes, and spending much more time promoting the film at junkets than you spent acting in it in the first place.
The theme of the menu is to burn down the artifice — which includes Slowik. He realizes that he should’ve resisted the siren song. The best version of him would’ve limited his fame to — at most — a six-minute feature on Diners, Drive-Ins & Dives. I can imagine Guy Fieri watching this movie at home and suddenly pointing at his TV, DiCaprio meme–style, and shouting that finally SOMEONE understands what he’s been trying to say.
---
Somewhat relatedly: I’m reminded of The Bear and its rhyming (if more optimistic) views about the toxicity of restaurant culture.
---
Arguably related, too: the sommelier at the restaurant is the guy who spent years in a double act doing commercials for Sonic. Either that was an intentional wink by the filmmakers or it's just coincidental and that dude maybe just wishes people would stop pointing it out.
posted by savetheclocktower at 11:03 PM on January 10, 2023 [6 favorites]
I agree that Tyler's motivations aren't fully consistent or satisfying. A guy who was so excited to eat this food that he didn't care that he knew he and everyone else was going to die at the end (as opposed to being in denial that it was all just "drama") would be, I think, a little weirder to begin with. The other diners' psychology is basically naturalistic, at most slightly exaggerated, so it's a little weird. It didn't take me out of the film but it was one thing that didn't make line up better and make even more sense on repeat viewings.
posted by praemunire at 11:45 AM on January 11, 2023
posted by praemunire at 11:45 AM on January 11, 2023
Rewatched this evening to celebrate the end of two frickin' weeks of COVID quarantine. Was able to confirm what I suspected--that there were 12 compressed spheres within the charred circle in the amuse, so: one for each cover. Clever!
The one sequence that has dragged for me the last couple of times is the fake cop. There's something so cheesy about it and it does go on for a bit (also I suspected it from the beginning when I first saw it, so there wasn't even a rug pull for me). I was looking to see if I could spot the "cop" among the chefs earlier, so at least it could be said to be a revealed trick, and didn't have any luck, but I'm not sure I saw them all.
Still, I dig it. This is such a good example of a film where strong lead performances sell the heck out of material that could go either way.
Also, could anyone make out what was on the prep table in the "shadow kitchen?" Because it didn't look like Hawthorn-style food.
posted by praemunire at 9:33 PM on January 11, 2023 [2 favorites]
The one sequence that has dragged for me the last couple of times is the fake cop. There's something so cheesy about it and it does go on for a bit (also I suspected it from the beginning when I first saw it, so there wasn't even a rug pull for me). I was looking to see if I could spot the "cop" among the chefs earlier, so at least it could be said to be a revealed trick, and didn't have any luck, but I'm not sure I saw them all.
Still, I dig it. This is such a good example of a film where strong lead performances sell the heck out of material that could go either way.
Also, could anyone make out what was on the prep table in the "shadow kitchen?" Because it didn't look like Hawthorn-style food.
posted by praemunire at 9:33 PM on January 11, 2023 [2 favorites]
*chef's kiss*
posted by supermedusa at 9:24 AM on January 12, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by supermedusa at 9:24 AM on January 12, 2023 [1 favorite]
Loved this, thought it was delightfully unhinged and genuinely hilarious, while still being unsettling. Also one of my favorite musicians, Colin Stetson, did the score, and it was a great score.
One of the things that I thought added an especially subtle and effective layer of menace was what Slowik points out: that none of them (other than Margo) really make a serious effort to escape, but it's not just that, it's that every time something horrifying goes down, they only seem to grow more entrenched in their roles as diners. Like, yeah they're outnumbered and probably wouldn't get far against a bunch of chefs armed with knives, but none of them even really try very hard! Because every time some fresh horror happens, they're still treated as guests. The demeanor of the entire staff remains exactly the same kind of professional and deferential from start to finish. Elsa maintains her absolute calm, everything appears so wholly ordered and planned that it's like the diners are lulled into compliance. Everything, after all, seems to be going exactly as it should be! This is all part of The Menu!
Which is part of what makes Margo's plan so clever. She finds herself a new place in the narrative, and thereby earns her escape in a way none of the others can manage. And even then, the other diners accept it, even silently encourage her. There's something interesting there in the movie, in the relationship between artist and audience, the ways the movie makes them both complicit in each others' destruction, something that speaks to the pressures of making art under capitalism.
I do have to wonder about the rest of the restaurant staff though. Like, what is going on there? It seemed kind of cultish, which I guess is fair enough as an explanation, but I did still wonder about their motivations. The sommelier sure seemed to be having fun though.
posted by yasaman at 4:02 PM on January 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
One of the things that I thought added an especially subtle and effective layer of menace was what Slowik points out: that none of them (other than Margo) really make a serious effort to escape, but it's not just that, it's that every time something horrifying goes down, they only seem to grow more entrenched in their roles as diners. Like, yeah they're outnumbered and probably wouldn't get far against a bunch of chefs armed with knives, but none of them even really try very hard! Because every time some fresh horror happens, they're still treated as guests. The demeanor of the entire staff remains exactly the same kind of professional and deferential from start to finish. Elsa maintains her absolute calm, everything appears so wholly ordered and planned that it's like the diners are lulled into compliance. Everything, after all, seems to be going exactly as it should be! This is all part of The Menu!
Which is part of what makes Margo's plan so clever. She finds herself a new place in the narrative, and thereby earns her escape in a way none of the others can manage. And even then, the other diners accept it, even silently encourage her. There's something interesting there in the movie, in the relationship between artist and audience, the ways the movie makes them both complicit in each others' destruction, something that speaks to the pressures of making art under capitalism.
I do have to wonder about the rest of the restaurant staff though. Like, what is going on there? It seemed kind of cultish, which I guess is fair enough as an explanation, but I did still wonder about their motivations. The sommelier sure seemed to be having fun though.
posted by yasaman at 4:02 PM on January 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
Also one of my favorite musicians, Colin Stetson, did the score, and it was a great score.
The score was quite effective (as was the lighting), but I was a little distracted at points by how much it sounded like the incidental music for the Great Ormond Street Hospital documentaries several years back.
posted by praemunire at 10:18 AM on January 15, 2023
The score was quite effective (as was the lighting), but I was a little distracted at points by how much it sounded like the incidental music for the Great Ormond Street Hospital documentaries several years back.
posted by praemunire at 10:18 AM on January 15, 2023
I saw this just after Pig and really enjoyed both. There's a through line from Pig to The Menu; without spoiling anything, Slowik could be a character from Pig a few years down his darkest timeline.
Then it emerged that he’d been told everyone at the meal would be dying. At that point I couldn’t decide — did he hear “everyone will die” and just fail to believe it? Or was he so much of an obsessive foodie poser that he decided that death was… worth it? Neither answer seems satisfying to me.
This puzzled me too, but my final read is that Tyler both didn't really believe he would die (Slowik would spare him upon being wowed by the breadth and depth of his Special Knowledge, which explains why he was so anxious to make sure Slowik liked him) and even if he did, dying at Slowik's last service would give him the Ultimate Exclusive Dining Achievement. Either outcome would get him a unique kind of clout, which is the thing he was really collecting. And it's this collector-y quality that made him so repugnant, and his fandom so hollow. He was literally willing to sacrifice a whole other human being just to score likes.
Tyler knows about food, but he doesn't understand or respect it. None of the guests do, because they can afford not to care. This is why I mostly don't mind them all dying.*
*On the one hand, it seemed kind of shitty to kill the actor and his assistant when Slowik's main grievance was that he wasted a precious day off seeing a lousy movie, but on the other they did accept the invite in the hopes of parlaying the meal into some kind of lucrative comeback tour.
There's something interesting there in the movie, in the relationship between artist and audience, the ways the movie makes them both complicit in each others' destruction, something that speaks to the pressures of making art under capitalism.
This is such a perfect observation. Slowik wants to make something beautiful, to transform and be transform by the process of bringing something beautiful into being. And that's both incompatible with the status-seeking behavior that overlooks or denies the inherent value of a thing in order to extract a more tangible return on investment, but also dependent on that behavior to exist, because those are the people with the money he needs to make the art. To paraphrase the corresponding bit from Pig, he had to lose himself to do the thing that made him himself.
posted by Fish, fish, are you doing your duty? at 2:12 PM on January 15, 2023 [5 favorites]
Then it emerged that he’d been told everyone at the meal would be dying. At that point I couldn’t decide — did he hear “everyone will die” and just fail to believe it? Or was he so much of an obsessive foodie poser that he decided that death was… worth it? Neither answer seems satisfying to me.
This puzzled me too, but my final read is that Tyler both didn't really believe he would die (Slowik would spare him upon being wowed by the breadth and depth of his Special Knowledge, which explains why he was so anxious to make sure Slowik liked him) and even if he did, dying at Slowik's last service would give him the Ultimate Exclusive Dining Achievement. Either outcome would get him a unique kind of clout, which is the thing he was really collecting. And it's this collector-y quality that made him so repugnant, and his fandom so hollow. He was literally willing to sacrifice a whole other human being just to score likes.
Tyler knows about food, but he doesn't understand or respect it. None of the guests do, because they can afford not to care. This is why I mostly don't mind them all dying.*
*On the one hand, it seemed kind of shitty to kill the actor and his assistant when Slowik's main grievance was that he wasted a precious day off seeing a lousy movie, but on the other they did accept the invite in the hopes of parlaying the meal into some kind of lucrative comeback tour.
There's something interesting there in the movie, in the relationship between artist and audience, the ways the movie makes them both complicit in each others' destruction, something that speaks to the pressures of making art under capitalism.
This is such a perfect observation. Slowik wants to make something beautiful, to transform and be transform by the process of bringing something beautiful into being. And that's both incompatible with the status-seeking behavior that overlooks or denies the inherent value of a thing in order to extract a more tangible return on investment, but also dependent on that behavior to exist, because those are the people with the money he needs to make the art. To paraphrase the corresponding bit from Pig, he had to lose himself to do the thing that made him himself.
posted by Fish, fish, are you doing your duty? at 2:12 PM on January 15, 2023 [5 favorites]
yasaman: "I do have to wonder about the rest of the restaurant staff though. Like, what is going on there? It seemed kind of cultish, which I guess is fair enough as an explanation, but I did still wonder about their motivations. The sommelier sure seemed to be having fun though."
The real answer — though not very fun or interesting — is that they have to behave that way for the movie to work. The idea that Slowik would have a bunch of unthinking, uh, henchmen (for lack of a better word) would be unsatisfying. And the idea that they are prisoners to Slowik's plan, just like the diners themselves, makes Slowik's artistic statement much less righteous. So the movie has to invest the minimum amount of time into making you believe that the underlings are on board with the plan, and even have some agency in it.
If I'm playing along, I can flesh out what little we got with some headcanon. We got three glimpses into what life is like for the less glamorous kitchen jobs: (a) a sous-chef who is talented, but not quite talented enough to attain his dreams; (b) a cook who was abused for refusing to sleep with her boss; and (c) a maître d' (Elsa) who gets blamed for her boss's oversights (as her final words tell us).
They work at the most prestigious restaurant in the country, but they've seen firsthand that their artistic drive is ruining their lives. They want to make the same sort of statements through food that Slowik does, but they are just as painfully aware as he is that such a pursuit necessarily pushes them to the top of the pyramid, and the system gets sicker and sicker as they ascend. They, too, feel trapped, and are thus just as willing as he is to cut the Gordian Knot and make one final statement about the supremacy of art over commerce. They'd rather burn out than fade away.
I still don't believe it, but there it is. There's probably, like, a busboy that just joined up three weeks beforehand, and I weep for him.
Fish, fish, are you doing your duty?: "On the one hand, it seemed kind of shitty to kill the actor and his assistant when Slowik's main grievance was that he wasted a precious day off seeing a lousy movie, but on the other they did accept the invite in the hopes of parlaying the meal into some kind of lucrative comeback tour."
I found this rationale even weaker than the one for the old couple. I feel like Slowik's point, deep down, was that he despised the sort of person who would want to show up to a private island to pay $1,250 to eat food that they won't even enjoy. That covers the old couple, the movie star,the professor, Mary Ann, Tyler, and the finance bros. Anything that happens on top of that — the infidelity, the financial improprieties, the making of shitty movies — is there so that the audience feels less sorry for them.
posted by savetheclocktower at 10:45 PM on January 15, 2023 [4 favorites]
The real answer — though not very fun or interesting — is that they have to behave that way for the movie to work. The idea that Slowik would have a bunch of unthinking, uh, henchmen (for lack of a better word) would be unsatisfying. And the idea that they are prisoners to Slowik's plan, just like the diners themselves, makes Slowik's artistic statement much less righteous. So the movie has to invest the minimum amount of time into making you believe that the underlings are on board with the plan, and even have some agency in it.
If I'm playing along, I can flesh out what little we got with some headcanon. We got three glimpses into what life is like for the less glamorous kitchen jobs: (a) a sous-chef who is talented, but not quite talented enough to attain his dreams; (b) a cook who was abused for refusing to sleep with her boss; and (c) a maître d' (Elsa) who gets blamed for her boss's oversights (as her final words tell us).
They work at the most prestigious restaurant in the country, but they've seen firsthand that their artistic drive is ruining their lives. They want to make the same sort of statements through food that Slowik does, but they are just as painfully aware as he is that such a pursuit necessarily pushes them to the top of the pyramid, and the system gets sicker and sicker as they ascend. They, too, feel trapped, and are thus just as willing as he is to cut the Gordian Knot and make one final statement about the supremacy of art over commerce. They'd rather burn out than fade away.
I still don't believe it, but there it is. There's probably, like, a busboy that just joined up three weeks beforehand, and I weep for him.
Fish, fish, are you doing your duty?: "On the one hand, it seemed kind of shitty to kill the actor and his assistant when Slowik's main grievance was that he wasted a precious day off seeing a lousy movie, but on the other they did accept the invite in the hopes of parlaying the meal into some kind of lucrative comeback tour."
I found this rationale even weaker than the one for the old couple. I feel like Slowik's point, deep down, was that he despised the sort of person who would want to show up to a private island to pay $1,250 to eat food that they won't even enjoy. That covers the old couple, the movie star,
posted by savetheclocktower at 10:45 PM on January 15, 2023 [4 favorites]
They'd rather burn out than fade away.
There's some of that, yes, but also in some ways that's overintellectualizing it. They all live together in a sparse communal barracks and, from the schedule Elsa recites, it sounds like they get very little time to themselves (12-hour minimum workdays, it sounds like) or even sleep. They're also working in the notoriously cruel, authoritarian, and militaristic brigade system under a charismatic and manipulative celebrity who wields immense power over their careers. Those are some of the best conditions you can get in the modern workplace for starting an actual cult.
posted by praemunire at 10:59 AM on January 16, 2023 [9 favorites]
There's some of that, yes, but also in some ways that's overintellectualizing it. They all live together in a sparse communal barracks and, from the schedule Elsa recites, it sounds like they get very little time to themselves (12-hour minimum workdays, it sounds like) or even sleep. They're also working in the notoriously cruel, authoritarian, and militaristic brigade system under a charismatic and manipulative celebrity who wields immense power over their careers. Those are some of the best conditions you can get in the modern workplace for starting an actual cult.
posted by praemunire at 10:59 AM on January 16, 2023 [9 favorites]
They're also working in the notoriously cruel, authoritarian, and militaristic brigade system under a charismatic and manipulative celebrity who wields immense power over their careers. Those are some of the best conditions you can get in the modern workplace for starting an actual cult.
This was also my ultimate takeaway, and it works well enough for me as an explanation in terms of rolling with the horror premise of it all, though the motivations savetheclocktower points out are also enough to keep the suspension of disbelief bubble from popping entirely. However, I also wondered about how long they'd been isolated on that island, because Slowik mentioned that the investor kept them open through Covid. Does that mean he funded them enough to support the staff on a kind of furlough? We saw the Reservations binders in Slowik's office, and there notably wasn't a 2020 one, but I wondered if the restaurant stayed shuttered and empty during that time (barring Slowik who had a cabin on the island), or if the staff stuck it out with Slowik during quarantine times, all of them growing increasingly unhinged from the isolation and the pandemic and the pace of the work.
Alternatively, they did all get a brief period of respite thanks to Covid, which only made going back all the worse. Only, because this is after all a horror satire, rather than taking part in the Great Resignation and just quitting their service industry jobs like so many others did, they went for the Great Conflagration instead to burn out in glory.
posted by yasaman at 11:16 AM on January 16, 2023 [2 favorites]
This was also my ultimate takeaway, and it works well enough for me as an explanation in terms of rolling with the horror premise of it all, though the motivations savetheclocktower points out are also enough to keep the suspension of disbelief bubble from popping entirely. However, I also wondered about how long they'd been isolated on that island, because Slowik mentioned that the investor kept them open through Covid. Does that mean he funded them enough to support the staff on a kind of furlough? We saw the Reservations binders in Slowik's office, and there notably wasn't a 2020 one, but I wondered if the restaurant stayed shuttered and empty during that time (barring Slowik who had a cabin on the island), or if the staff stuck it out with Slowik during quarantine times, all of them growing increasingly unhinged from the isolation and the pandemic and the pace of the work.
Alternatively, they did all get a brief period of respite thanks to Covid, which only made going back all the worse. Only, because this is after all a horror satire, rather than taking part in the Great Resignation and just quitting their service industry jobs like so many others did, they went for the Great Conflagration instead to burn out in glory.
posted by yasaman at 11:16 AM on January 16, 2023 [2 favorites]
if the staff stuck it out with Slowik during quarantine times, all of them growing increasingly unhinged from the isolation and the pandemic and the pace of the work.
Probably working on new recipes and such, plus I'd imagine some of the agricultural and animal-rearing work couldn't simply be suspended.
posted by praemunire at 12:28 PM on January 16, 2023
Probably working on new recipes and such, plus I'd imagine some of the agricultural and animal-rearing work couldn't simply be suspended.
posted by praemunire at 12:28 PM on January 16, 2023
I saw this just after Pig and really enjoyed both.
Pig was tremendous; it's not often that a script offers Cage the chance to be somebody other than Nicolas Cage on screen.
The Menu didn't give Fiennes the same chance. But I'm not sure I've ever seen him be more Ralph Fiennes on screen than he is in this film, so there's that. Delectable casting from soup to nuts.
posted by flabdablet at 5:43 AM on January 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
Pig was tremendous; it's not often that a script offers Cage the chance to be somebody other than Nicolas Cage on screen.
The Menu didn't give Fiennes the same chance. But I'm not sure I've ever seen him be more Ralph Fiennes on screen than he is in this film, so there's that. Delectable casting from soup to nuts.
posted by flabdablet at 5:43 AM on January 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
So I think if I am to ultimately enjoy this film, I feel like we have to take Sowik as utterly flawed and wrong. That is, for the film to work, the only person who is level headed about fine cuisine is Erin.
Because a lot of films structured like this will be about how much the individuals dying deserve tl die. But do they? They all exhibit sins: affairs, fraud, fakery. But not only are those insufficient for death, its clear that Sowik doesnt care one bit about those.
I think this is most apparent in Tyler's punishment. Tyler is undoubtedly the worst person there. He brought an escort to die just so he could participate in this food he has been craving.
But his final punishment isnt about that at all. And to an extent, Sowik can hardly get upset at someone bringing someone to die so they can participate in his art. Thats what his whole menu is about! Instead he is mocked for enjoying art, but not being able to produce said art himself. Its a complete humiliation, and we can see that we are meant to feel so by watching Erin's reaction to it. And, I think this is obvious too, but a pretty absurd condemnation. Are we really meant to look down on people who love to appreciate art but cannot make it themselves. I imagine a similar punishment could be doled out on Lillian; Lillian, for all her pretentious nonsense gets off pretty easy, being served bowls of the emulsion she had noticed was broken.
It seems to me that the film appears to be gesturing at fine dining as a whole as an insane cult, with all participants equally guilty. I think thats the only way I can understand this film. Sowik is insane, his motivations ridiculous, but he brings everyone along with him, all except Erin.
posted by Cannon Fodder at 11:38 PM on January 17, 2023 [4 favorites]
Because a lot of films structured like this will be about how much the individuals dying deserve tl die. But do they? They all exhibit sins: affairs, fraud, fakery. But not only are those insufficient for death, its clear that Sowik doesnt care one bit about those.
I think this is most apparent in Tyler's punishment. Tyler is undoubtedly the worst person there. He brought an escort to die just so he could participate in this food he has been craving.
But his final punishment isnt about that at all. And to an extent, Sowik can hardly get upset at someone bringing someone to die so they can participate in his art. Thats what his whole menu is about! Instead he is mocked for enjoying art, but not being able to produce said art himself. Its a complete humiliation, and we can see that we are meant to feel so by watching Erin's reaction to it. And, I think this is obvious too, but a pretty absurd condemnation. Are we really meant to look down on people who love to appreciate art but cannot make it themselves. I imagine a similar punishment could be doled out on Lillian; Lillian, for all her pretentious nonsense gets off pretty easy, being served bowls of the emulsion she had noticed was broken.
It seems to me that the film appears to be gesturing at fine dining as a whole as an insane cult, with all participants equally guilty. I think thats the only way I can understand this film. Sowik is insane, his motivations ridiculous, but he brings everyone along with him, all except Erin.
posted by Cannon Fodder at 11:38 PM on January 17, 2023 [4 favorites]
Finally watched this last night. It was extremely well done, but ultimately found it tedious.
At its core was a another angry white male looking to kill people that he perceived as wronging him. Man, just stop trying to service assholes and get back to doing what you love. There's no reason to go on a murder spree.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:39 AM on January 18, 2023 [5 favorites]
At its core was a another angry white male looking to kill people that he perceived as wronging him. Man, just stop trying to service assholes and get back to doing what you love. There's no reason to go on a murder spree.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:39 AM on January 18, 2023 [5 favorites]
A fun movie. It reminded me of like, a segment in a four-segment anthology film. A concept rendered as a story. Including an ending that is a little too pat and brief because the concept has expended itself. It also maps onto old-timey soft horror, just minus the regular Joe character going, "Look here what's the big idea!?"
Kinda wanted to know what was on Margot/Erin's tortillas. Even if they were blank. Or what were they prepared to kill Ms. Westervelt for? I just wanted to know.
Tyler's character was interesting. He's loathsome and horrible, but those aren't his sin in Slowik's eyes. Tyler's sin is killing the mystery of the art... by *appreciating* too much. It's somehow seen as a shameful thing that he can't cook himself, but that's a really like a very basic and reductive idea of what art and enjoyment of art is about imho.
posted by fleacircus at 12:30 AM on January 20, 2023 [2 favorites]
Kinda wanted to know what was on Margot/Erin's tortillas. Even if they were blank. Or what were they prepared to kill Ms. Westervelt for? I just wanted to know.
Tyler's character was interesting. He's loathsome and horrible, but those aren't his sin in Slowik's eyes. Tyler's sin is killing the mystery of the art... by *appreciating* too much. It's somehow seen as a shameful thing that he can't cook himself, but that's a really like a very basic and reductive idea of what art and enjoyment of art is about imho.
posted by fleacircus at 12:30 AM on January 20, 2023 [2 favorites]
I think Tyler was in love with the idea that knowing about food/cooking was somehow on a spectrum with the ability to create dishes/cook. Like it was a secret code about which ingredients, which tools, and not, in fact an art that took a lifetime to learn.
Part of appreciating something truly superlative is the humility of knowing that you may be able to see why it's great, but that is far, far removed from being able to do it. He did not have that, in a way that was insulting.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 6:23 AM on January 21, 2023 [7 favorites]
Part of appreciating something truly superlative is the humility of knowing that you may be able to see why it's great, but that is far, far removed from being able to do it. He did not have that, in a way that was insulting.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 6:23 AM on January 21, 2023 [7 favorites]
I don't think it showed that he crossed that line. For sure it portrayed his fannishness as loathsome, and his desire for attention desperate beyond cringe -- it really layed it on thick how much he sucked in several ways lol -- but I can't remember anything at all that suggested that he had any airs about being a chef himself. He was entirely worshipful!
Tho of course like, in analyzing it: the chefs deserve to die too. Tyler knows what a Pacojet is, but they have a Pacojet! He doesn't think to ask the assistant chef's name, but the assistant chefs are robotic and self-destructively obsequious. He's complicit in the awfulness of celebrity chefdom, sure.
But like, imagine it was a different kind of celebrity, say a singer; imagine a Taylor Swift mega-fan being pulled up on stage and cruelly exposed as a bad performer. It could go even further than this movie does, and explicitly show it was their dream-beyond-dreams for them to be known by Taylor Swift, to even get up on stage, and they'd dream they'd be able to sing really well and Taylor Swift would want to do a duet or whatever. And being exposed and despised by T-Swift might indeed be a crushing nightmare scenario for them. It would be maximally cruel maybe, but it wouldn't actually be the punishment that fits the way they are bad at all.
posted by fleacircus at 10:27 AM on January 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
Tho of course like, in analyzing it: the chefs deserve to die too. Tyler knows what a Pacojet is, but they have a Pacojet! He doesn't think to ask the assistant chef's name, but the assistant chefs are robotic and self-destructively obsequious. He's complicit in the awfulness of celebrity chefdom, sure.
But like, imagine it was a different kind of celebrity, say a singer; imagine a Taylor Swift mega-fan being pulled up on stage and cruelly exposed as a bad performer. It could go even further than this movie does, and explicitly show it was their dream-beyond-dreams for them to be known by Taylor Swift, to even get up on stage, and they'd dream they'd be able to sing really well and Taylor Swift would want to do a duet or whatever. And being exposed and despised by T-Swift might indeed be a crushing nightmare scenario for them. It would be maximally cruel maybe, but it wouldn't actually be the punishment that fits the way they are bad at all.
posted by fleacircus at 10:27 AM on January 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
I can't remember anything at all that suggested that he had any airs about being a chef himself.
The knowing way he asked Jeremy the sous-chef if he used a Pacojet and then told Margot he had one showed something like that, I think. Not quite that he was a chef, but that he understood cooking as well as one.
posted by praemunire at 11:31 AM on January 21, 2023 [2 favorites]
The knowing way he asked Jeremy the sous-chef if he used a Pacojet and then told Margot he had one showed something like that, I think. Not quite that he was a chef, but that he understood cooking as well as one.
posted by praemunire at 11:31 AM on January 21, 2023 [2 favorites]
I think Chef was just annoyed by Tyler being the kind of entitled little shit who would repeatedly photograph dishes he'd explicitly been asked not to and make a complete balls-up of being covert about it. That's the character tell. Hiring an escort in order to put her in harm's way for his own selfish ends while obliviously fucking up Chef's perfect death menu by doing so is just another of exactly the kind of move that an entitled little shit like that could only be expected to make.
Nicholas Hoult was another lovely bit of casting as Tyler; he does a nice line in entitled little shits. Played one to good effect in The Great as well, which if you haven't seen, you should.
posted by flabdablet at 11:33 AM on January 21, 2023 [2 favorites]
Nicholas Hoult was another lovely bit of casting as Tyler; he does a nice line in entitled little shits. Played one to good effect in The Great as well, which if you haven't seen, you should.
posted by flabdablet at 11:33 AM on January 21, 2023 [2 favorites]
My take on Tyler was that he wasn't content to just enjoy the food. He had to arrogate to himself some of the prestige he associates with the craft. Tyler has a Pacojet, he's in the know. Tyler knows all the secrets. In reality he isn't even at the level of competent home cook. Just a do-nothing know-it-all.
posted by yonega at 12:28 PM on January 21, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by yonega at 12:28 PM on January 21, 2023 [6 favorites]
Also, though, IIRC, Tyler was improvised? Maybe I am thinking of it too Chocolate Factory-like. There weren't really any special poetic things planned; they were all supposed to be part of the fire at the end, the whole group wadded up and thrown away together. I guess I shouldn't complain about the movie's broken reduction har.
posted by fleacircus at 12:47 PM on January 21, 2023
posted by fleacircus at 12:47 PM on January 21, 2023
We watched this last night. Nicholas Hoult's character in The Great is a bit of a gourmand, so his casting in this was perfect.
posted by emelenjr at 11:52 AM on January 22, 2023
posted by emelenjr at 11:52 AM on January 22, 2023
Saw it today, and would like to add a little detail we noticed.
Margot does a nice thing for the older woman with the incest-fantasist husband when she brings her her purse. The woman is then seen holding her purse for comfort. I thought it could maybe lead to a twist where the purse contained to be the key to salvation for the guests, but that was another red herring. Except at the end, when Margo is leaving and the woman lifts her hand from her purse to wave her on encouragingly.
Perfect. More so for all the expectations it raises and then disappoints. No cannibalism, no targeted punishment fitting the crime; those would have been clichéd, beneath Chef Mylod^Slowik's art .
The guests were served sheer hate and contempt, distilled, gellified, spherified; that's what was on The Menu.
posted by kandinski at 11:38 PM on January 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
Margot does a nice thing for the older woman with the incest-fantasist husband when she brings her her purse. The woman is then seen holding her purse for comfort. I thought it could maybe lead to a twist where the purse contained to be the key to salvation for the guests, but that was another red herring. Except at the end, when Margo is leaving and the woman lifts her hand from her purse to wave her on encouragingly.
Perfect. More so for all the expectations it raises and then disappoints. No cannibalism, no targeted punishment fitting the crime; those would have been clichéd, beneath Chef Mylod^Slowik's art .
The guests were served sheer hate and contempt, distilled, gellified, spherified; that's what was on The Menu.
posted by kandinski at 11:38 PM on January 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
IIRC, Tyler was improvised?
I don't think so. They knew Tyler was that flavor of awful because he'd been exchanging emails with them about the death dinner. And they had a chef's coat with his name embroidered on it already at the ready.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:09 AM on January 23, 2023
I don't think so. They knew Tyler was that flavor of awful because he'd been exchanging emails with them about the death dinner. And they had a chef's coat with his name embroidered on it already at the ready.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:09 AM on January 23, 2023
And they had a chef's coat with his name embroidered on it already at the ready.
No, Slowik wrote his name on the coat with marker. I'm sure they had a supply of coats around.
posted by praemunire at 10:15 AM on January 23, 2023
No, Slowik wrote his name on the coat with marker. I'm sure they had a supply of coats around.
posted by praemunire at 10:15 AM on January 23, 2023
the older woman with the incest-fantasist husband
By the way, do we think the daughter is dead, or just estranged?
posted by praemunire at 10:16 AM on January 23, 2023
By the way, do we think the daughter is dead, or just estranged?
posted by praemunire at 10:16 AM on January 23, 2023
Slowik wrote his name on the coat with marker.
He did? Ah. Middle-aged brain. Carry on.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 1:10 PM on January 23, 2023
He did? Ah. Middle-aged brain. Carry on.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 1:10 PM on January 23, 2023
I forget who had recommended I see this and to not read too much about it before seeing it, but I really have to thank them. I really liked the various subversions of expectations. As for the rest of the guests not fighting back, it's definitely a case of them not quite knowing how to handle being thwarted, but also I think even after the suicide and the amputation there's a lingering hope that at some point Slowik is going to reveal that so much of it was just theatrics, and ha ha ha boy we had you going and now you are truly the elite customers who've had the unspeakable experience and survived. And if that's the case, nobody wants to be the rube who ruins it by taking it as real.
Slowik is conflicted about Margo throughout, which side of things she 'deserves' to be on, but really that's all moot as both sides are going to die. Dying as staff is just as dead as dying while being a customer. But then Margo finally pierces the layers of bullshit with a straight-up shift to "I am a customer paying you to make me a meal" and engages with Slowik on his own terms and the terms of the restaurant experience, while bypassing so much of the artifice of 'dining as experience' and 'dining as theater' layered on it. I was going to criticize her for paying for a $9.95 burger with a $10 bill, but it turns out the restaurant operates on a 'gratuity included' model, so she wasn't stiffing him on the tip.
Also, good god that burger looked tasty.
posted by rmd1023 at 12:02 PM on January 24, 2023 [9 favorites]
Slowik is conflicted about Margo throughout, which side of things she 'deserves' to be on, but really that's all moot as both sides are going to die. Dying as staff is just as dead as dying while being a customer. But then Margo finally pierces the layers of bullshit with a straight-up shift to "I am a customer paying you to make me a meal" and engages with Slowik on his own terms and the terms of the restaurant experience, while bypassing so much of the artifice of 'dining as experience' and 'dining as theater' layered on it. I was going to criticize her for paying for a $9.95 burger with a $10 bill, but it turns out the restaurant operates on a 'gratuity included' model, so she wasn't stiffing him on the tip.
Also, good god that burger looked tasty.
posted by rmd1023 at 12:02 PM on January 24, 2023 [9 favorites]
Finally watched this today, I loved it. I was surprised at how laugh-out-loud funny it was, and also surprised that it was a lot less of a horror movie or even a thriller than I expected it to be (only saw it when I learned there were no jump scares because I REALLY hate jump scares).
Are we really meant to look down on people who love to appreciate art but cannot make it themselves.
I found the conversation here about why the various characters "deserved" their fate interesting. My opinion is that from any sort of moral standpoint, none of them deserved to die. But I think from Slowick's (and I suppose the rest of the staff's) point of view, they all had very specific reasons to be there. Someone on twitter pointed out that what drove Slowick* was some sort of despair/anger over what had happened to his love of his art as it turned into commerce. And every single person there was part of that.
The older couple represented rich people who partake because they can, because it's a luxury afforded by their wealth. The finance bros and their boss represent the investors that allowed him to build this business but expect to be catered to in return. The actor represents celebrities who use his artistic cred to burnish their own reputations.
I think Tyler is the most interesting one - in a way, he and the critic represent two sides of those who view Slowick's art as something to consume. On the surface, Tyler's form of consumption would seem less offensive. Rather than criticizing, he's there to appreciate - he loves everything Slowick presents unconditionally, he's even willing to literally die for the experience. BUT I think what is offensive about him to Slowick is the fact that he does approach it purely as a consumer, and someone who is using this knowlege to feel superior. He wants to feel like he knows everything about cuisine, but he's never bothered to learn how to actually make it. Because his primary goal is not to appreciate, but to look cool. He says multiple times the reason he chose Margot/Erin is because of how cool she is/looks. He's actually willing for her to DIE so that he can have this experience and look cool while doing it. He's the ultimate taker, and I think that's why Slowick has such special disdain for him.
(I also think this is why Slowick let Margot go. She didn't fit into his menu, because in his view, she wasn't a taker, but she also didn't "earn" a spot as one of the makers because she wasn't part of their little cult.)
*I also very much agree with Brandon Blatcher about this being about "another angry white male looking to kill people that he perceived as wronging him." I didn't have the slightest bit of sympathy for Slowick or his perspective, and I'm not entirely sure if we're supposed to. Margot really seemed like the hero, and she saw right through all of it, including Slowick's bullshit. Slowick was simply a tool for the screenwriter to make his points about the 1%, and about art vs. commerce. At least that's how I read it.
posted by lunasol at 6:21 PM on February 5, 2023 [4 favorites]
Are we really meant to look down on people who love to appreciate art but cannot make it themselves.
I found the conversation here about why the various characters "deserved" their fate interesting. My opinion is that from any sort of moral standpoint, none of them deserved to die. But I think from Slowick's (and I suppose the rest of the staff's) point of view, they all had very specific reasons to be there. Someone on twitter pointed out that what drove Slowick* was some sort of despair/anger over what had happened to his love of his art as it turned into commerce. And every single person there was part of that.
The older couple represented rich people who partake because they can, because it's a luxury afforded by their wealth. The finance bros and their boss represent the investors that allowed him to build this business but expect to be catered to in return. The actor represents celebrities who use his artistic cred to burnish their own reputations.
I think Tyler is the most interesting one - in a way, he and the critic represent two sides of those who view Slowick's art as something to consume. On the surface, Tyler's form of consumption would seem less offensive. Rather than criticizing, he's there to appreciate - he loves everything Slowick presents unconditionally, he's even willing to literally die for the experience. BUT I think what is offensive about him to Slowick is the fact that he does approach it purely as a consumer, and someone who is using this knowlege to feel superior. He wants to feel like he knows everything about cuisine, but he's never bothered to learn how to actually make it. Because his primary goal is not to appreciate, but to look cool. He says multiple times the reason he chose Margot/Erin is because of how cool she is/looks. He's actually willing for her to DIE so that he can have this experience and look cool while doing it. He's the ultimate taker, and I think that's why Slowick has such special disdain for him.
(I also think this is why Slowick let Margot go. She didn't fit into his menu, because in his view, she wasn't a taker, but she also didn't "earn" a spot as one of the makers because she wasn't part of their little cult.)
*I also very much agree with Brandon Blatcher about this being about "another angry white male looking to kill people that he perceived as wronging him." I didn't have the slightest bit of sympathy for Slowick or his perspective, and I'm not entirely sure if we're supposed to. Margot really seemed like the hero, and she saw right through all of it, including Slowick's bullshit. Slowick was simply a tool for the screenwriter to make his points about the 1%, and about art vs. commerce. At least that's how I read it.
posted by lunasol at 6:21 PM on February 5, 2023 [4 favorites]
I didn't have the slightest bit of sympathy for Slowick or his perspective
I did. Not the murdering part of it, of course. But it seems clear to me that we are meant to understand that his love of his art is and always has been real and true; it is an obsession, yes, that has gone very badly astray for reasons both within and without of Slowik's control, but it wouldn't be so powerful if it didn't actually mean something. Either there is something within you that responds even a little to the appeal of going to an extreme to achieve an ideal perfection or there isn't, though. It's not something the twenty-first century tends to look kindly on, as we have become so aware of the folly of so many chosen ideals and the tremendous abuse and distortion involved in the process of achieving them. Which is, I think, correct, but doesn't mean there's nothing to the yearning to sacrifice everything for greatness.
posted by praemunire at 11:06 PM on February 5, 2023 [2 favorites]
I did. Not the murdering part of it, of course. But it seems clear to me that we are meant to understand that his love of his art is and always has been real and true; it is an obsession, yes, that has gone very badly astray for reasons both within and without of Slowik's control, but it wouldn't be so powerful if it didn't actually mean something. Either there is something within you that responds even a little to the appeal of going to an extreme to achieve an ideal perfection or there isn't, though. It's not something the twenty-first century tends to look kindly on, as we have become so aware of the folly of so many chosen ideals and the tremendous abuse and distortion involved in the process of achieving them. Which is, I think, correct, but doesn't mean there's nothing to the yearning to sacrifice everything for greatness.
posted by praemunire at 11:06 PM on February 5, 2023 [2 favorites]
He wants to feel like he knows everything about cuisine, but he's never bothered to learn how to actually make it.
In retrospect the meaningful angle, to me, about Tyler (whose shittiness is over-determined lol) is that Tyler's main crime comes down to hero-worship, the sort of extreme auteur-worship style of appreciation. So the method of his humiliation isn't as important as knowing that Slowick doesn't respect him in the slightest. It's the whisper that does it. But Tyler is the other side of Slowick, the ultimate bullshit-filled appreciator of bullshit.
posted by fleacircus at 7:55 AM on February 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
In retrospect the meaningful angle, to me, about Tyler (whose shittiness is over-determined lol) is that Tyler's main crime comes down to hero-worship, the sort of extreme auteur-worship style of appreciation. So the method of his humiliation isn't as important as knowing that Slowick doesn't respect him in the slightest. It's the whisper that does it. But Tyler is the other side of Slowick, the ultimate bullshit-filled appreciator of bullshit.
posted by fleacircus at 7:55 AM on February 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
Saw this in the cinema last night, enjoyed it so thoroughly, from laughing out loud to jumping in my seat, that I watched it on streaming again today. The difference in experience was striking, the sound design really takes full advantage of a cinema set-up, and my home sound system couldn't provide quite whip-crack of the clap or the sharpness of the "YES CHEF" that ratcheted the tension in the initial viewing. Very glad to have seen
Small things I loved: how almost everyone had black credit-cards, how it absolutely wasn't even that techbro's birthday, the table-plating desert extended to floor-plating, how the "final girl" embodied all the impure qualities that are usually the downfall of women in horror movies.
I think one of Tylers greatest sins was bringing Margot, because as we know, "THERE ARE NO SUBSTITUTIONS AT HAWTHORNE!!".
When Margot clapped I just went "omfg, she's going to Karin him" ... but it went somewhere a little fuller than that.
posted by Iteki at 2:43 PM on February 11, 2023 [5 favorites]
Small things I loved: how almost everyone had black credit-cards, how it absolutely wasn't even that techbro's birthday, the table-plating desert extended to floor-plating, how the "final girl" embodied all the impure qualities that are usually the downfall of women in horror movies.
I think one of Tylers greatest sins was bringing Margot, because as we know, "THERE ARE NO SUBSTITUTIONS AT HAWTHORNE!!".
When Margot clapped I just went "omfg, she's going to Karin him" ... but it went somewhere a little fuller than that.
posted by Iteki at 2:43 PM on February 11, 2023 [5 favorites]
I wanted to like this, but there were too many things that didn't make sense. Mainly, why does the chef want to kill these particular people? The finance guys I can kinda get, but everyone else? An actor who was in a movie he didn't like (huh?). A couple that includes someone guilty of infidelity (why would the chef care?) and who can't remember recent dishes (but how would the chef know that in advance? do repeat dinners regularly get quizzed about previous meals?) A restaurant critic who has been a big supporter of his, but *gasp* has written negative reviews of other chefs, as is her job? It seems quite a stretch to see how any of these people could be on top of his shit list.
And then there is Tyler, who the chef seems to hate, yet has trusted him and only him with the secret of what is to unfold during this final menu- how on earth did that happen?
I don't need movies to always make sense, but I agree with the description of above that the plot was on the whole, "tedious" - it had it's moments (people bothering to pay even when they know they're about to be murdered), but they were too few and far between.
posted by coffeecat at 4:09 PM on February 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
And then there is Tyler, who the chef seems to hate, yet has trusted him and only him with the secret of what is to unfold during this final menu- how on earth did that happen?
I don't need movies to always make sense, but I agree with the description of above that the plot was on the whole, "tedious" - it had it's moments (people bothering to pay even when they know they're about to be murdered), but they were too few and far between.
posted by coffeecat at 4:09 PM on February 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
I wanted to like this, but there were too many things that didn't make sense. Mainly, why does the chef want to kill these particular people? The finance guys I can kinda get, but everyone else? An actor who was in a movie he didn't like (huh?). A couple that includes someone guilty of infidelity (why would the chef care?) and who can't remember recent dishes (but how would the chef know that in advance? do repeat dinners regularly get quizzed about previous meals?) A restaurant critic who has been a big supporter of his, but *gasp* has written negative reviews of other chefs, as is her job? It seems quite a stretch to see how any of these people could be on top of his shit list.
The film didn't really work for me, and this was partially the reason, but to be fair to the film, it is utterly aware that Slowik's reasoning is arbitrary and somewhat insane. After all, theres the scene where he determines that the actor's PA should die because she didn't pay for college. It's very clear that he is looking for reasons to not interrupt the plan he's had in his head, this vision he has for his art. The elaborate hoax they play on Erin is intended to justify her death too, but clearly does not.
I think the film tricks you into initially thinking that it is one of those horror films where you sort of want the victims to die, as they all reveal why they are unworthy, but really no-one there deserved to die, other than in their acceptance that art matters more than human life.
posted by Cannon Fodder at 6:40 AM on February 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
The film didn't really work for me, and this was partially the reason, but to be fair to the film, it is utterly aware that Slowik's reasoning is arbitrary and somewhat insane. After all, theres the scene where he determines that the actor's PA should die because she didn't pay for college. It's very clear that he is looking for reasons to not interrupt the plan he's had in his head, this vision he has for his art. The elaborate hoax they play on Erin is intended to justify her death too, but clearly does not.
I think the film tricks you into initially thinking that it is one of those horror films where you sort of want the victims to die, as they all reveal why they are unworthy, but really no-one there deserved to die, other than in their acceptance that art matters more than human life.
posted by Cannon Fodder at 6:40 AM on February 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
I think the film tricks you into initially thinking that it is one of those horror films where you sort of want the victims to die
I think the trailer sells it like this, but, as you (and others) say, it's not.
posted by praemunire at 9:23 AM on February 14, 2023
I think the trailer sells it like this, but, as you (and others) say, it's not.
posted by praemunire at 9:23 AM on February 14, 2023
I don't think Slowik wants to kill these people - I think this is his attempt at 'suicide by art' and managed to get all his kitchen staff on board with it. The customers don't matter beyond being the raw material manipulated by him and his staff into the night's menu. Slowik wasn't even the one who suggested it end with everyone dying - the female sous-chef who sits with the female customers during "Man's Folly" claims it was her idea.
posted by rmd1023 at 2:51 PM on February 14, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by rmd1023 at 2:51 PM on February 14, 2023 [6 favorites]
Tyler is also reprehensible because he had no qualms about his then gf being murdered when he made the reservation (maybe she found out and that's why she left?) and sees women as expendable.
posted by brujita at 9:56 PM on February 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by brujita at 9:56 PM on February 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
Well, it's entirely possible that his gf was of his ilk, or another murder-worthy variety. The name sounds like it was chosen to suggest snooty old NY wealth.
posted by praemunire at 11:16 PM on February 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by praemunire at 11:16 PM on February 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
it was the 9th most popular boy's name in the 1990's
posted by brujita at 1:17 PM on February 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by brujita at 1:17 PM on February 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
I don't remember the exact last name of his ex-girlfriend, but it sounded vaguely fancy and Dutch.
posted by praemunire at 2:24 PM on February 21, 2023
posted by praemunire at 2:24 PM on February 21, 2023
It wasn’t Vanderbilt or Vandergraaf but something similar. Posher than him.
posted by Iteki at 3:11 PM on February 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Iteki at 3:11 PM on February 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
I don't need movies to always make sense, but I agree with the description of above that the plot was on the whole, "tedious" - it had it's moments (people bothering to pay even when they know they're about to be murdered), but they were too few and far between.
I found this movie pretty dumb, but it made a lot more sense to me when I read afterwards that it was basically made by SNL people. I didn't feel that it had much to say either thematically or narratively, but seen as a super long Saturday Night Live sketch with better production value, I understand better what it was going for.
posted by dusty potato at 5:42 PM on March 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
I found this movie pretty dumb, but it made a lot more sense to me when I read afterwards that it was basically made by SNL people. I didn't feel that it had much to say either thematically or narratively, but seen as a super long Saturday Night Live sketch with better production value, I understand better what it was going for.
posted by dusty potato at 5:42 PM on March 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
(FWIW, I actually ended up watching this movie because someone on the Fanfare discussion for Triangle of Sadness, which I absolutely loved, mentioned it by way of comparison.)
posted by dusty potato at 5:44 PM on March 6, 2023
posted by dusty potato at 5:44 PM on March 6, 2023
I think what I disliked most was that there was basically no real characterization whatsoever, which is partly why viewing it through the lens of extended sketch comedy makes it vaguely work for me. A few of the particularly talented cast members-- Judith Light, Hong Chau, John Leguizamo-- managed to intrigue me despite the crumbs they were given (no pun intended), but most of the rest were basically cardboard cutouts that barely seemed to have interiority. Like, literally all we know about the main protagonist is that she is a sex worker, has enormous eyes, and would prefer not to die. At no point was I at all interested in figuring out what the Chef's deal was, psychologically speaking, because it was obvious from the get-go that he was just a piece of plot machinery in the shape of a Pained Villain.
posted by dusty potato at 6:01 PM on March 6, 2023
posted by dusty potato at 6:01 PM on March 6, 2023
I think the film tricks you into initially thinking that it is one of those horror films where you sort of want the victims to die
While I wouldn't say I actively wanted them all to die, I definitely didn't care if they lived or died, which I guess was part of why the film didn't work for me - I felt no tension, nor any disappointment when the coast guard turned out to be in on it.
posted by coffeecat at 7:26 AM on March 7, 2023
While I wouldn't say I actively wanted them all to die, I definitely didn't care if they lived or died, which I guess was part of why the film didn't work for me - I felt no tension, nor any disappointment when the coast guard turned out to be in on it.
posted by coffeecat at 7:26 AM on March 7, 2023
for an escort, erin is pretty mouthy from the get-go about how much she hates all this haute cuisine stuff. i get that it's pretentious and tyler is insufferable, but dealing with bullshit gracefully is part of the job. i can't imagine she gets a lot of repeat business.
certainly tyler's never gonna use her services again
posted by logicpunk at 2:39 PM on April 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
certainly tyler's never gonna use her services again
posted by logicpunk at 2:39 PM on April 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
but dealing with bullshit gracefully is part of the job. i can't imagine she gets a lot of repeat business.
there's a small moment when she's in slowik's office and he asks her if she loves what she does and she says something to the effect of "yes, or well I used to." I imagine this informs how she behaves with tyler -- playing the part reasonably well overall but clearly a little less patient than she might once have been, a bit less willing to pretend to be something she isn't for the sake of pleasing a jackass who doesn't appreciate the effort
posted by Kybard at 7:52 PM on June 24, 2023 [2 favorites]
there's a small moment when she's in slowik's office and he asks her if she loves what she does and she says something to the effect of "yes, or well I used to." I imagine this informs how she behaves with tyler -- playing the part reasonably well overall but clearly a little less patient than she might once have been, a bit less willing to pretend to be something she isn't for the sake of pleasing a jackass who doesn't appreciate the effort
posted by Kybard at 7:52 PM on June 24, 2023 [2 favorites]
While I can, actually, believe that the final result of the world's most intensely over-the-top luxury fine dining restaurant is a death cult, I really do not believe that a mega uber hyper ultra rich person restaurant on a private island with a live-in staff and infinite high end ingredients could subsist on $15,000 ($1,250 x 12 diners) per day.
“Angel investor” (lol) means no need to break even.....
posted by lalochezia at 7:16 PM on August 8, 2023
I saw this through the lens of want to please people / be approved of. Tyler especially wanted approval so badly, the character was masterfully acted in so many scenes! The weak neediness and desire was palpable. And so Margot stuck out here because although in the service industry herself she seeks no approval from the get go. And she gets out because she discovers the chef’s deep need to please, and plays on it.
Honestly the part that terrified me the most was when we find out Tyler knew she was going to die and still hired her. The consumerist dispensable attitude towards a sex worker (how his real self comes out nasty when she doesn’t behave) was entirely chilling.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 9:07 AM on October 17, 2023 [4 favorites]
Honestly the part that terrified me the most was when we find out Tyler knew she was going to die and still hired her. The consumerist dispensable attitude towards a sex worker (how his real self comes out nasty when she doesn’t behave) was entirely chilling.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 9:07 AM on October 17, 2023 [4 favorites]
Just saw basically the bulk of this (caught it on HBO starting with the tortuous scene) and really enjoyed it as a weirdo horror comedy thing.
Also, Tyler reminds me a lot of anime fans who have no intention of ever actually studying Japanese, but instead learn only what are effectively trivia factoids about the language, used as a cudgel to assert cultural dominance within their little enclaves.
posted by DoctorFedora at 6:20 PM on October 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
Also, Tyler reminds me a lot of anime fans who have no intention of ever actually studying Japanese, but instead learn only what are effectively trivia factoids about the language, used as a cudgel to assert cultural dominance within their little enclaves.
posted by DoctorFedora at 6:20 PM on October 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
Wow only just noticed a few years ago that autocorrect decided I did not intend to write “tortilla”
posted by DoctorFedora at 8:53 PM on October 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by DoctorFedora at 8:53 PM on October 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
god dammit I did not write “years” I am certain of this
posted by DoctorFedora at 3:25 AM on October 29, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by DoctorFedora at 3:25 AM on October 29, 2023 [3 favorites]
Just caught this one in my current binge of "My wife's away for a few days so let me catch movies I've been meaning to see that she would have zero interest in." I had almost completely avoiding learning anything about this movie aside from "A bunch of one-percenters go to an elite restaurant that ends up being psychological torture from the chef, and one of the diners sticks out as not belonging."
So, managed to be very funny while being very, very tense and upsetting for me. I wasn't prepared for "The Mess" even though the buildup to it made it very clear what was about to happen. (I think I was bracing for something more like seppuku, and so the gun took me totally by surprise, and I never quite recovered from that.)
Tyler is the toughest character to pin down, for me, and not because Nicholas Hoult didn't play him well, because he played that character about as perfectly as he could, I think. That his "demonstration" was "improvised" feels off, to me. They knew more about him than probably any of the other diners due to the months of emails (so my assumption is that they looked into Ms. Westervelt with the same kind of research that they looked into everyone else, and determined her to be sufficiently "taker" class, and that had he planned to bring a "giver" class date from the beginning they might have cancelled his reservation.) The best I can do to make it make sense is that he wasn't reacting like the others were, and so was taking something away from the perfection of the menu, and had to be dealt with early. That's the Watsonian reason. The Doylian reason is that is needed to happen for Erin to be able to pull her move at the end, which was such a perfect touch that I basically accept whatever gets us there, and from like minute two I was ready for Tyler to suffer unspeakable horrors in this movie, so that was just lagniappe.
(His sin in Slowik's eyes, though, is that performative-appreciation-for-prestige thing. He owns a pacojet but can't sauté a leek. He talks to the sous-chef like they're artistic equals, but doesn't bother to ask the dude's name, because all that matters to Tyler is that the artists respect him as knowledgeable. It's insufferable, for sure, but not worth dying over. Bringing Erin because he's worried that he won't get seated otherwise, though... that's definitely the closest thing any of the diners do to deserve their fates.)
But, as has been said, this isn't actually about the diners getting targeted for specific sins, but rather being representatives of a culture that has driven Slowik (and the staff!) to this point. We're not supposed to cheer for Slowik on this, I'm pretty damn sure, but nor are we expected to totally disagree with him, either, which leads to a lot of the discomfort this movie left me with, I think.
But let me add one final thing here, which is that as much praise as Anya Taylor-Joy and Ralph Fiennes and Judith Light and John Leguizamo deserve here, the real star of this show is Hong Chao. I think the whole thing falls apart if she's not as breathtakingly good in that role as she is. Absolute kudos there.
posted by Navelgazer at 5:04 PM on March 22 [2 favorites]
So, managed to be very funny while being very, very tense and upsetting for me. I wasn't prepared for "The Mess" even though the buildup to it made it very clear what was about to happen. (I think I was bracing for something more like seppuku, and so the gun took me totally by surprise, and I never quite recovered from that.)
Tyler is the toughest character to pin down, for me, and not because Nicholas Hoult didn't play him well, because he played that character about as perfectly as he could, I think. That his "demonstration" was "improvised" feels off, to me. They knew more about him than probably any of the other diners due to the months of emails (so my assumption is that they looked into Ms. Westervelt with the same kind of research that they looked into everyone else, and determined her to be sufficiently "taker" class, and that had he planned to bring a "giver" class date from the beginning they might have cancelled his reservation.) The best I can do to make it make sense is that he wasn't reacting like the others were, and so was taking something away from the perfection of the menu, and had to be dealt with early. That's the Watsonian reason. The Doylian reason is that is needed to happen for Erin to be able to pull her move at the end, which was such a perfect touch that I basically accept whatever gets us there, and from like minute two I was ready for Tyler to suffer unspeakable horrors in this movie, so that was just lagniappe.
(His sin in Slowik's eyes, though, is that performative-appreciation-for-prestige thing. He owns a pacojet but can't sauté a leek. He talks to the sous-chef like they're artistic equals, but doesn't bother to ask the dude's name, because all that matters to Tyler is that the artists respect him as knowledgeable. It's insufferable, for sure, but not worth dying over. Bringing Erin because he's worried that he won't get seated otherwise, though... that's definitely the closest thing any of the diners do to deserve their fates.)
But, as has been said, this isn't actually about the diners getting targeted for specific sins, but rather being representatives of a culture that has driven Slowik (and the staff!) to this point. We're not supposed to cheer for Slowik on this, I'm pretty damn sure, but nor are we expected to totally disagree with him, either, which leads to a lot of the discomfort this movie left me with, I think.
But let me add one final thing here, which is that as much praise as Anya Taylor-Joy and Ralph Fiennes and Judith Light and John Leguizamo deserve here, the real star of this show is Hong Chao. I think the whole thing falls apart if she's not as breathtakingly good in that role as she is. Absolute kudos there.
posted by Navelgazer at 5:04 PM on March 22 [2 favorites]
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Wait really? What else could make "a lavish menu, with some shocking surprises"?
Hm. I'll remove this from my recent activity until I see it so no one needs to worry about spoilers but now I'm even more intrigued.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 2:26 PM on November 18, 2022