Soul Man (1986)
November 28, 2022 1:59 PM - Subscribe
[TRAILER] In order to win a scholarship, Mark Watson (C. Thomas Howell), the white son of an affluent psychiatrist, pretends to be black on his application form. When he's accepted, he alters his hair, skin and speech to conceal his true identity. At first Mark believes that going through law school as a minority will be a breeze, but he soon begins experiencing racism. Eventually, Mark falls in love with Sarah Walker (Rae Dawn Chong), a black student, and begins to feel guilty about his ruse.
Also starring Arye Gross, James Earl Jones, Leslie Nielsen, Jeff Altman, Julia Louis-Dreyfus.
Directed by Steve Miner. Written by Carol Black.
13% fresh on Rotten Tomatoes.
Currently streaming in the US on Hoopla. Also available for digital rental on multiple outlets. JustWatch listing.
Today, I'm going to post six movies that are problematic and/or made by/starring problematic people, but also either: have merit/are acclaimed; won some awards; are very popular; have a certain amount of cultural cachet. I'll be tagging these #problematicmovies.
Why is this problematic? I mean... did you read the summary?
Also starring Arye Gross, James Earl Jones, Leslie Nielsen, Jeff Altman, Julia Louis-Dreyfus.
Directed by Steve Miner. Written by Carol Black.
13% fresh on Rotten Tomatoes.
Currently streaming in the US on Hoopla. Also available for digital rental on multiple outlets. JustWatch listing.
Today, I'm going to post six movies that are problematic and/or made by/starring problematic people, but also either: have merit/are acclaimed; won some awards; are very popular; have a certain amount of cultural cachet. I'll be tagging these #problematicmovies.
Why is this problematic? I mean... did you read the summary?
This is one of those movies that makes me ask myself "How much coke were they doing when they green lit this?"
posted by miss-lapin at 3:40 PM on November 28, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by miss-lapin at 3:40 PM on November 28, 2022 [4 favorites]
Is there a standardized definition for “ problematic”?
Directors, stars, producers?
Nonunion films?
Movies with unpaid crew?
posted by Ideefixe at 6:59 PM on November 28, 2022
Directors, stars, producers?
Nonunion films?
Movies with unpaid crew?
posted by Ideefixe at 6:59 PM on November 28, 2022
The use case for the #problematicmovies tag is discussed in the post.
It's intended a way of making it simple to post a movie without giving the impression you endorse the problematic content in it and/or the problematic people who made it. Not all films that could have the tag will. If there are other reasons to post a movie, it may not seem necessary.
I've been doing theme days with the tag, but anyone could use it.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:26 PM on November 28, 2022 [4 favorites]
It's intended a way of making it simple to post a movie without giving the impression you endorse the problematic content in it and/or the problematic people who made it. Not all films that could have the tag will. If there are other reasons to post a movie, it may not seem necessary.
I've been doing theme days with the tag, but anyone could use it.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:26 PM on November 28, 2022 [4 favorites]
Today, I'm going to post six movies that are problematic and/or made by/starring problematic people, but also either: have merit/are acclaimed; won some awards; are very popular; have a certain amount of cultural cachet.
I'm... not sure which of these latter virtues holds for this movie. Awards? Popular? Cachet? It did open at #3 in the box office, but meh. It was a different world: this weekend in 1986, Crocodile Dundee held the #3 spot, and it was in its tenth week. Ten weeks ago as of this writing, Don't Worry, Darling was released, and it is currently at #32.
I confess, I have never seen a frame of Soul Man to this day, but I cannot recall any great positive impact it had.
In 1986 I was the entertainment editor for my university newspaper. It was October when this came out and new writers were streaming in all the time, so I was dispatching people to do movie reviews and concert reviews regularly. (To give people a sense of the media landscape, that same month also saw the release of Round Midnight, Children of a Lesser God, The Color of Money, True Stories, and Peggy Sue Got Married.)
I had a board up behind my desk with what was available. A new writer walked in one day, we talked and she picked Soul Man off the board reckoning (as I recall) that a comedy might be fun. I gave her the assignment; I knew nothing of it and I cannot recall if I had even seem a trailer or commercial for it. She was, by the way, a young Black woman.
She dropped off her review a day or two later and I never saw her again, That was closing in on forty years ago, I have long since forgotten her name, and I still feel mortified about the whole thing.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 10:35 PM on November 28, 2022 [2 favorites]
I'm... not sure which of these latter virtues holds for this movie. Awards? Popular? Cachet? It did open at #3 in the box office, but meh. It was a different world: this weekend in 1986, Crocodile Dundee held the #3 spot, and it was in its tenth week. Ten weeks ago as of this writing, Don't Worry, Darling was released, and it is currently at #32.
I confess, I have never seen a frame of Soul Man to this day, but I cannot recall any great positive impact it had.
In 1986 I was the entertainment editor for my university newspaper. It was October when this came out and new writers were streaming in all the time, so I was dispatching people to do movie reviews and concert reviews regularly. (To give people a sense of the media landscape, that same month also saw the release of Round Midnight, Children of a Lesser God, The Color of Money, True Stories, and Peggy Sue Got Married.)
I had a board up behind my desk with what was available. A new writer walked in one day, we talked and she picked Soul Man off the board reckoning (as I recall) that a comedy might be fun. I gave her the assignment; I knew nothing of it and I cannot recall if I had even seem a trailer or commercial for it. She was, by the way, a young Black woman.
She dropped off her review a day or two later and I never saw her again, That was closing in on forty years ago, I have long since forgotten her name, and I still feel mortified about the whole thing.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 10:35 PM on November 28, 2022 [2 favorites]
Richochet Biscuit - sometimes hatewatching something is a thing. I see the "problematic movies" tag as an acknowledgement that "yeah, this movie has some issues", but the conversation as a whole could simply be an opportunity for the people who saw it to unleash a whole lot of "OMIGOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD what were they thinking".
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:08 AM on November 29, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:08 AM on November 29, 2022 [2 favorites]
Sometimes films are worth discussing as artifacts.
This was a theatrically released film with major stars in it. And it is based around blackface. And it's a comedy. And it thinks it is anti-racist. That's deeply weird.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 5:43 AM on November 29, 2022 [10 favorites]
This was a theatrically released film with major stars in it. And it is based around blackface. And it's a comedy. And it thinks it is anti-racist. That's deeply weird.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 5:43 AM on November 29, 2022 [10 favorites]
I'm open to a tweak to the still-evolving "hey, these are #problematicmovies" blurb, but I'm wary of turning it into a half page of disclaimers.
The thinking behind it is "I literally put the term problematic right there; let's skip the 'why would you post this? aren't you aware ___________?'" part.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 6:03 AM on November 29, 2022 [1 favorite]
The thinking behind it is "I literally put the term problematic right there; let's skip the 'why would you post this? aren't you aware ___________?'" part.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 6:03 AM on November 29, 2022 [1 favorite]
I saw this particular film at maybe 11 or 12. The very basic "Mark learns about the experience of racism" things went by without tripping my very undeveloped alarms (mostly because I had zero idea at that age about the pernicious legacy of blackface). But even as a tween, I remember being aghast at much of it.
I saw Ice Cube interviewed once (and yes, he is also very problematic, but this was years ago and he had a good point, so stay with me). He said that one of the kinds of racism that pissed him off the most was when white people got "overly familiar."
You're saying something against racism, good for you; but you're still not Black and still not entitled to speak for Black people or attempt to speak like you are Black. Having a Black girlfriend or close Black friends isn't a Get Out of Jail Free card that keeps you in the clear if you go over the line. You can't street cred your way into having the same license to speak for or joke about Black people that Black people themselves have. The white people who try are never more than a few beats from saying some real racist shit.
This movie is positively rancid with "I've decided I'm anti-racist, so I am clear to cross all the lines because I'm irreverent and cool and I get it" racism. That is made even worse because virtually all of the "insights" the white screenwriter, white producers, and white director have to offer are real shallow, facile "This is what I've seen in the movies!" shit.
This isn't even a white rapper from the streets telling you about Black life overstepping, it's "I'm a white liberal from California who watches a lot of movies and tv so I'm pretty sure I get it" overstepping.
Yes, the blackface is awful. Damn this movie all to hell for that, indeed. But even if a person tried to craft some kind of "it was a different time" argument for the racism, the movie was jaw-droppingly offensive even at the time, because it tried to pass off a very cartoonish version of Black life and the experience of racism as some kind of hip satire.
If an eleven year-old white kid from a conservative family in the south in 1986 could see this and think, "Um... I don't think this is okay" ...wow.
I wonder what Rae Dawn Chong and James Earl Jones would say about it today.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 6:36 AM on November 29, 2022 [7 favorites]
I saw Ice Cube interviewed once (and yes, he is also very problematic, but this was years ago and he had a good point, so stay with me). He said that one of the kinds of racism that pissed him off the most was when white people got "overly familiar."
You're saying something against racism, good for you; but you're still not Black and still not entitled to speak for Black people or attempt to speak like you are Black. Having a Black girlfriend or close Black friends isn't a Get Out of Jail Free card that keeps you in the clear if you go over the line. You can't street cred your way into having the same license to speak for or joke about Black people that Black people themselves have. The white people who try are never more than a few beats from saying some real racist shit.
This movie is positively rancid with "I've decided I'm anti-racist, so I am clear to cross all the lines because I'm irreverent and cool and I get it" racism. That is made even worse because virtually all of the "insights" the white screenwriter, white producers, and white director have to offer are real shallow, facile "This is what I've seen in the movies!" shit.
This isn't even a white rapper from the streets telling you about Black life overstepping, it's "I'm a white liberal from California who watches a lot of movies and tv so I'm pretty sure I get it" overstepping.
Yes, the blackface is awful. Damn this movie all to hell for that, indeed. But even if a person tried to craft some kind of "it was a different time" argument for the racism, the movie was jaw-droppingly offensive even at the time, because it tried to pass off a very cartoonish version of Black life and the experience of racism as some kind of hip satire.
If an eleven year-old white kid from a conservative family in the south in 1986 could see this and think, "Um... I don't think this is okay" ...wow.
I wonder what Rae Dawn Chong and James Earl Jones would say about it today.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 6:36 AM on November 29, 2022 [7 favorites]
You're saying something against racism, good for you; but you're still not Black and still not entitled to speak for Black people or attempt to speak like you are Black. Having a Black girlfriend or close Black friends isn't a Get Out of Jail Free card that keeps you in the clear if you go over the line. You can't street cred your way into having the same license to speak for or joke about Black people that Black people themselves have. The white people who try are never more than a few beats from saying some real racist shit.
This movie is probably a good "Exhibit A" for this point; Get Out is probably a good Exhibit B.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:56 AM on November 29, 2022 [1 favorite]
This movie is probably a good "Exhibit A" for this point; Get Out is probably a good Exhibit B.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:56 AM on November 29, 2022 [1 favorite]
The thinking behind it is "I literally put the term problematic right there; let's skip the 'why would you post this? aren't you aware ___________?'" part.
Oh, don’t get me wrong, DOT: I don’t want to second-guess the whole problematic movies series of posts. I think it’s valuable, and it highlights how society can change* (largely for the better). I just found this one an odd choice. Perhaps others found it made a bigger splash.
*Hollywood producers are often accused of endlessly remaking the same stories. I can’t imagine anyone releasing this today, but I have a paralyzing suspicion that the people at far right media companies have at least pondered a reboot.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:15 AM on November 29, 2022
Oh, don’t get me wrong, DOT: I don’t want to second-guess the whole problematic movies series of posts. I think it’s valuable, and it highlights how society can change* (largely for the better). I just found this one an odd choice. Perhaps others found it made a bigger splash.
*Hollywood producers are often accused of endlessly remaking the same stories. I can’t imagine anyone releasing this today, but I have a paralyzing suspicion that the people at far right media companies have at least pondered a reboot.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:15 AM on November 29, 2022
And honestly, my initial thought when I saw this post was that maybe C. Thomas Howell, whom I have given scarcely a thought to in decades, had a milkshake duck moment that I had overlooked.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:24 AM on November 29, 2022
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:24 AM on November 29, 2022
I still can't believe this movie ever got made, even in 1986. But that's not what was most surprising in watching this trailer again.
Watson can't go to Harvard Law School because tuition is $10,493. If you put that number into the Inflation Calculator, it is the equivalent of $28,531.39 in 2022 dollars.
The tuition at Harvard Law for the 2022-23 school year is $70,430.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 7:27 AM on November 29, 2022 [6 favorites]
Watson can't go to Harvard Law School because tuition is $10,493. If you put that number into the Inflation Calculator, it is the equivalent of $28,531.39 in 2022 dollars.
The tuition at Harvard Law for the 2022-23 school year is $70,430.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 7:27 AM on November 29, 2022 [6 favorites]
Producer Steve Tisch offered the role of Mark Watson to Anthony Michael Hall, Tim Robbins, Anthony Edwards, Val Kilmer and John Cusack, all of whom declined.An absolute Dream Team of ‘80s comedy leading men turned this down. Simply amazing.
posted by Etrigan at 7:39 AM on November 29, 2022 [2 favorites]
I have watched the trailer, but not the movie.
In our house, my wife and I have a phrase: "Grown-ups made this." It is used without elaboration, to refer to a product, an object, a media property, that some number of professionals inexplicably decided was acceptable to produce. People who should know better, and yet ... they made this.
This movie is the distilled, concentrated, weaponized essence of the phrase. Grown-ups made this.
posted by gauche at 7:53 AM on November 29, 2022 [8 favorites]
In our house, my wife and I have a phrase: "Grown-ups made this." It is used without elaboration, to refer to a product, an object, a media property, that some number of professionals inexplicably decided was acceptable to produce. People who should know better, and yet ... they made this.
This movie is the distilled, concentrated, weaponized essence of the phrase. Grown-ups made this.
posted by gauche at 7:53 AM on November 29, 2022 [8 favorites]
I also am staying on this #problematicmovies series because I want to get away from the lingering notion on FF that posting a film here is a de facto recommendation.
In the early days of FF, a post on a film generally either meant a) I just watched this or b) I think this is good.
That's a very limiting way to approach things and likely discourages people from posting.
Some of the #problematicmovies are good, but were made by people it's hard to stand behind. Others had some value, but have clangingly offensive elements. Others simply should not have been made. There can be value in discussing any of tho\ese.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:54 AM on November 29, 2022 [11 favorites]
In the early days of FF, a post on a film generally either meant a) I just watched this or b) I think this is good.
That's a very limiting way to approach things and likely discourages people from posting.
Some of the #problematicmovies are good, but were made by people it's hard to stand behind. Others had some value, but have clangingly offensive elements. Others simply should not have been made. There can be value in discussing any of tho\ese.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:54 AM on November 29, 2022 [11 favorites]
*Hollywood producers are often accused of endlessly remaking the same stories. I can’t imagine anyone releasing this today, but I have a paralyzing suspicion that the people at far right media companies have at least pondered a reboot.
It will probably be race-swapped about a young BLM member who dons white-face to infiltrate the local Proud Boys chapter and discovers that really they are all caring patriots who aren't racist at all, they just believe in freedom and personal responsibility, and if you think about it, aren't the anti-racists the real racists?
I note that this movie came out one year after Just One of the Boys, about a teenage girl who goes an undercover as a boy to write an article for the newspaper. Maybe the people behind Soul Man were like,
EXEC1: "Hey, maybe we can do something based on that 'just a boy' property, whatever it was. Girl dresses like a boy, hangs out in the boys' locker room, sees some schlongs, so maybe we do, boy dresses like a girl, peeps 'em in the shower, yada yada yada?"
EXEC2: "Hmm, I don't know, rumor is United Artists are already developing a Bosom Buddies movie --
EXEC3: "I heard they got Harrison Ford and Mark Hammill on board! Can you imagine that, Han Solo and Luke Skywalker in drag?"
EXEC2: "Yeah... anyway, plus, boy in the girls' locker room, seeing them naked, that's a bit too raunchy for a PG family film. We're not making Porky's 4 here, we're trying to make a film with a 'message,' families eat that shit up!"
EXEC1: "You're right. We need those flyover chumps buying tickets, and I bet the Jesus Freaks wouldn't be too happy about teenage boys wearing dresses and putting on make-up, might be worried it'll turn their kids fruity."
EXEC3: "Maybe we do something with racism, yeah? Like that Eddie Murphy skit on Saturday Night Live, when he's white and all the other white people give him free stuff and dance when the black people get off the bus, that was hilarious!"
EXEC2: "Even better: white guy goes undercover as a black guy!"
etc. etc. I'm already bored with the premise and can't write more dialogue, but you get the picture. They are stupid jerks.
posted by Saxon Kane at 9:33 AM on November 29, 2022 [3 favorites]
It will probably be race-swapped about a young BLM member who dons white-face to infiltrate the local Proud Boys chapter and discovers that really they are all caring patriots who aren't racist at all, they just believe in freedom and personal responsibility, and if you think about it, aren't the anti-racists the real racists?
I note that this movie came out one year after Just One of the Boys, about a teenage girl who goes an undercover as a boy to write an article for the newspaper. Maybe the people behind Soul Man were like,
EXEC1: "Hey, maybe we can do something based on that 'just a boy' property, whatever it was. Girl dresses like a boy, hangs out in the boys' locker room, sees some schlongs, so maybe we do, boy dresses like a girl, peeps 'em in the shower, yada yada yada?"
EXEC2: "Hmm, I don't know, rumor is United Artists are already developing a Bosom Buddies movie --
EXEC3: "I heard they got Harrison Ford and Mark Hammill on board! Can you imagine that, Han Solo and Luke Skywalker in drag?"
EXEC2: "Yeah... anyway, plus, boy in the girls' locker room, seeing them naked, that's a bit too raunchy for a PG family film. We're not making Porky's 4 here, we're trying to make a film with a 'message,' families eat that shit up!"
EXEC1: "You're right. We need those flyover chumps buying tickets, and I bet the Jesus Freaks wouldn't be too happy about teenage boys wearing dresses and putting on make-up, might be worried it'll turn their kids fruity."
EXEC3: "Maybe we do something with racism, yeah? Like that Eddie Murphy skit on Saturday Night Live, when he's white and all the other white people give him free stuff and dance when the black people get off the bus, that was hilarious!"
EXEC2: "Even better: white guy goes undercover as a black guy!"
etc. etc. I'm already bored with the premise and can't write more dialogue, but you get the picture. They are stupid jerks.
posted by Saxon Kane at 9:33 AM on November 29, 2022 [3 favorites]
*Hollywood producers are often accused of endlessly remaking the same stories. I can’t imagine anyone releasing this today
Well...and since there are several real-world cases of such - notably Rachel Dolezal.
posted by davidmsc at 9:34 AM on November 29, 2022
Well...and since there are several real-world cases of such - notably Rachel Dolezal.
posted by davidmsc at 9:34 AM on November 29, 2022
Some of the #problematicmovies are good, but were made by people it's hard to stand behind. Others had some value, but have clangingly offensive elements. Others simply should not have been made. There can be value in discussing any of tho\ese.
I was about to make a request for Freddy Got Fingered in the next round of problematic films, but I see that it has already been covered.
....Although I just had another idea - DOT, I will memail you, this one is a doozy.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:09 AM on November 29, 2022 [1 favorite]
I was about to make a request for Freddy Got Fingered in the next round of problematic films, but I see that it has already been covered.
....Although I just had another idea - DOT, I will memail you, this one is a doozy.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:09 AM on November 29, 2022 [1 favorite]
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posted by Ursula Hitler at 3:18 PM on November 28, 2022 [18 favorites]