Arrow: The Return
February 18, 2015 10:01 PM - Season 3, Episode 14 - Subscribe
Oliver and Thea are joined by a special friend on their camping trip. Oliver learns you CAN go home again.
I only got to see the last fifteen minutes of the show tonight due to a class (yay, someone else posted here), but I was wondering if that was a different Tommy too or if I just don't recognize the dude after two years or whatever. The fifteen minutes I saw looked excellent though, so more later.
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:32 PM on February 18, 2015
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:32 PM on February 18, 2015
I'm not sure whether to be amused or appalled at Laurel "pouring one out for her homie."
As a recovering alcoholic, I think she was just pouring the booze out so she wouldn't be tempted to drink it, not as a tribute.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 3:59 AM on February 19, 2015
As a recovering alcoholic, I think she was just pouring the booze out so she wouldn't be tempted to drink it, not as a tribute.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 3:59 AM on February 19, 2015
Well, yes, of course, but it comes across as something else entirely. The question is whether the writers were trying to be slyly funny or just missed the implication; after all, she could have thrown the bottle in a trash bin.
posted by Ik ben afgesneden at 5:40 AM on February 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Ik ben afgesneden at 5:40 AM on February 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
So. Many. Terrible. Wigs.
posted by Kitteh at 3:30 PM on February 19, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 3:30 PM on February 19, 2015 [3 favorites]
I didn't see that reference at all given her demeanor. And someone who thinks they need an AA meeting probably doesn't want that full bottle one second longer than necessary.
Cute use of the first season Arrow logo in the beginning.
That's def the same actor as Tommy, just bad hair. Which is flashback de rigeur. Nice wig on Dresden Lance too.
Malcom's trying this not killing thing didn't last too long did it. Sorry guard, but I'll snark about your needless death later.
posted by phearlez at 8:18 PM on February 19, 2015
Cute use of the first season Arrow logo in the beginning.
That's def the same actor as Tommy, just bad hair. Which is flashback de rigeur. Nice wig on Dresden Lance too.
Malcom's trying this not killing thing didn't last too long did it. Sorry guard, but I'll snark about your needless death later.
posted by phearlez at 8:18 PM on February 19, 2015
As a recovering alcoholic, I think she was just pouring the booze out so she wouldn't be tempted to drink it, not as a tribute.
I think she was literally pouring it out so she wouldn't be tempted. But the tombstone in the background makes me think the "pouring one out" thing is at least a subtext. For me that combination toed the line between being genuine and being kind of doofy. It's a fine line. I don't think it was meant to be a joke, but I think it was intentional, whether it worked on a serious level or not.
On another note, I really enjoyed watching Thea and Oliver kicking the shit out of Slade together.
posted by brundlefly at 12:52 AM on February 20, 2015 [3 favorites]
I think she was literally pouring it out so she wouldn't be tempted. But the tombstone in the background makes me think the "pouring one out" thing is at least a subtext. For me that combination toed the line between being genuine and being kind of doofy. It's a fine line. I don't think it was meant to be a joke, but I think it was intentional, whether it worked on a serious level or not.
On another note, I really enjoyed watching Thea and Oliver kicking the shit out of Slade together.
posted by brundlefly at 12:52 AM on February 20, 2015 [3 favorites]
Totally tangential, but for the last year or so I've wondered if Ollie is going to rock the goatee, but dismissed the thought out of hand as being one of those good-in-comics, bad-in-life things.
For the last two weeks, though, I've been catch up on Sons of Anarchy, and Season Five Charlie Hunnam is much more Ollie than Amell is. Hair-trigger temper, deeply frustrated sense of justice foiled, high highs and scary lows. And he is goateed like a boss.
posted by Shepherd at 4:32 AM on February 20, 2015
For the last two weeks, though, I've been catch up on Sons of Anarchy, and Season Five Charlie Hunnam is much more Ollie than Amell is. Hair-trigger temper, deeply frustrated sense of justice foiled, high highs and scary lows. And he is goateed like a boss.
posted by Shepherd at 4:32 AM on February 20, 2015
I really wanted us, the audience, to have a Wince-O-Meter in the lower right hand corner of our televisions when Captain Lance, at the grave of his eldest daughter, said to Laurel, "Now I gotta figure out how to tell your mother.."
In the flashbacks, I don't remember the then Detective Lance being such an asshole drunk, but then my memories of the first season are quite foggy as I wasn't sure I was going to like this show (and I didn't until the 2nd season).
posted by Kitteh at 6:55 AM on February 20, 2015
In the flashbacks, I don't remember the then Detective Lance being such an asshole drunk, but then my memories of the first season are quite foggy as I wasn't sure I was going to like this show (and I didn't until the 2nd season).
posted by Kitteh at 6:55 AM on February 20, 2015
In the flashbacks, I don't remember the then Detective Lance being such an asshole drunk, but then my memories of the first season are quite foggy as I wasn't sure I was going to like this show (and I didn't until the 2nd season).
I believe in the first season he was still a drinker, but not nearly as much as one.
I think she was literally pouring it out so she wouldn't be tempted. But the tombstone in the background makes me think the "pouring one out" thing is at least a subtext. For me that combination toed the line between being genuine and being kind of doofy. It's a fine line. I don't think it was meant to be a joke, but I think it was intentional, whether it worked on a serious level or not
Absolutely. I immediately turned to my wife and quipped, "And one for my homey!" The wonderful thing about creating something with one thing in mind for the public is that the public might see something completely different. I understood her to be pouring it out as a recovering alcoholic, but framing of the scene suggested a completely different interpretation.
I generally had a weird connection this episode. I was generally bored to death with the flashback, which incidentally, was used to really offer some more development to supporting cast, but...just wasn't entertaining seeing Oliver rocking the green hoodie (HOW CLEVER) and walking around like he was on a tour with the Ghost of Christmas Present. I totally enjoyed the island scenes, though, even if Slade has become something of a caricature of himself. I guess that's a side effect of the Miraculu.
I was surprised and delighted for Oliver to break the news to Thea concerning Sarah's murder. I hadn't expected it until near the season finale and it reorients Thea's and Merlin's relationship for the future episodes, and I think for an entertaining turn. Merlin continues to wait until the perfect minute to appear in a room, but when he's not doing that, he's dramatically turning into this character who is cursed with losing his children out of acts that originate out of his own personal needs, be it revenge or self-preservation. He loses Tommy in the Undertaking and now he's lost Thea in a gamble to force Oliver to kill Ras, respectively. (And yes, that really was the same Tommy, just sporting a shorter haircut and I think less weight)
Watching Ollie and Thea fight together was so much fun, more so than watching him team up with Roy or even Diggle. (Speaking of which, was that his fireman brother who was murdered without us ever really meeting him?) Perhaps its just because their siblings, perhaps it was just watching Thea actually fight someone, but it was definitely fun.
I don't know if I'm impressed or not at the juxtaposition of Starling City with the Island as Oliver's home. He returns to the island, which became his home, while he goes home when it was still his home. What is evident is that Starling City is not the same one that he left, nor is Ollie the same person who left it. We have a pretty brutal throwback to season one Ollie, who killed those who had failed the city, versus dropping them off to the police, when he quite coldly snaps the drug dealer's neck. That might have been the first time Oliver has killed anyone out of anger or personal motivation, and not because he was forced to do it by others or to save his life. It sets up this possibility that as this season wraps up and the next starts, we will be watching present day Oliver continue to be molded into our classical super hero (who acts virtuously always) while at the same time, see how he was molded into the cold blooded killer who returned to Starling City with a vengeance. The show is going to be brighter, but darker, too.
Boozy, pill poppin' high school Thea was never a favorite of mine, so seeing her again wasn't much fun. Seeing a Tommy who wasn't racked with jealousy was the opposite.
Laurel...well. We were able to see her own light dark reflection, too. We were offered the optimistic, justice seeker, who went to work for the legal aide clinic, and see our present day Laurel, who acts as a vigilante and lies to her father about his daughter's death. I appreciated it that Captain Lance disagreed with her pitiful attempt to claim that based on everything in the past, the "mask" was always going to be in her future. Yet, vigilantism is the opposite of law, and generally happens when there's a break down in the law. Equally, we can argue that Laurel's adoption of the mask isn't because she's a fighter for justice as she wants to believe, but because there's something inherently broken and flawed about her character.
Oh, and the series creator totally tipped the hat to the Wrath of Khan when Slade imprisoned Oliver and Thea.
posted by Atreides at 10:37 AM on February 20, 2015 [2 favorites]
I believe in the first season he was still a drinker, but not nearly as much as one.
I think she was literally pouring it out so she wouldn't be tempted. But the tombstone in the background makes me think the "pouring one out" thing is at least a subtext. For me that combination toed the line between being genuine and being kind of doofy. It's a fine line. I don't think it was meant to be a joke, but I think it was intentional, whether it worked on a serious level or not
Absolutely. I immediately turned to my wife and quipped, "And one for my homey!" The wonderful thing about creating something with one thing in mind for the public is that the public might see something completely different. I understood her to be pouring it out as a recovering alcoholic, but framing of the scene suggested a completely different interpretation.
I generally had a weird connection this episode. I was generally bored to death with the flashback, which incidentally, was used to really offer some more development to supporting cast, but...just wasn't entertaining seeing Oliver rocking the green hoodie (HOW CLEVER) and walking around like he was on a tour with the Ghost of Christmas Present. I totally enjoyed the island scenes, though, even if Slade has become something of a caricature of himself. I guess that's a side effect of the Miraculu.
I was surprised and delighted for Oliver to break the news to Thea concerning Sarah's murder. I hadn't expected it until near the season finale and it reorients Thea's and Merlin's relationship for the future episodes, and I think for an entertaining turn. Merlin continues to wait until the perfect minute to appear in a room, but when he's not doing that, he's dramatically turning into this character who is cursed with losing his children out of acts that originate out of his own personal needs, be it revenge or self-preservation. He loses Tommy in the Undertaking and now he's lost Thea in a gamble to force Oliver to kill Ras, respectively. (And yes, that really was the same Tommy, just sporting a shorter haircut and I think less weight)
Watching Ollie and Thea fight together was so much fun, more so than watching him team up with Roy or even Diggle. (Speaking of which, was that his fireman brother who was murdered without us ever really meeting him?) Perhaps its just because their siblings, perhaps it was just watching Thea actually fight someone, but it was definitely fun.
I don't know if I'm impressed or not at the juxtaposition of Starling City with the Island as Oliver's home. He returns to the island, which became his home, while he goes home when it was still his home. What is evident is that Starling City is not the same one that he left, nor is Ollie the same person who left it. We have a pretty brutal throwback to season one Ollie, who killed those who had failed the city, versus dropping them off to the police, when he quite coldly snaps the drug dealer's neck. That might have been the first time Oliver has killed anyone out of anger or personal motivation, and not because he was forced to do it by others or to save his life. It sets up this possibility that as this season wraps up and the next starts, we will be watching present day Oliver continue to be molded into our classical super hero (who acts virtuously always) while at the same time, see how he was molded into the cold blooded killer who returned to Starling City with a vengeance. The show is going to be brighter, but darker, too.
Boozy, pill poppin' high school Thea was never a favorite of mine, so seeing her again wasn't much fun. Seeing a Tommy who wasn't racked with jealousy was the opposite.
Laurel...well. We were able to see her own light dark reflection, too. We were offered the optimistic, justice seeker, who went to work for the legal aide clinic, and see our present day Laurel, who acts as a vigilante and lies to her father about his daughter's death. I appreciated it that Captain Lance disagreed with her pitiful attempt to claim that based on everything in the past, the "mask" was always going to be in her future. Yet, vigilantism is the opposite of law, and generally happens when there's a break down in the law. Equally, we can argue that Laurel's adoption of the mask isn't because she's a fighter for justice as she wants to believe, but because there's something inherently broken and flawed about her character.
Oh, and the series creator totally tipped the hat to the Wrath of Khan when Slade imprisoned Oliver and Thea.
posted by Atreides at 10:37 AM on February 20, 2015 [2 favorites]
Now that Thea knows what Merlyn did to her, my husband's theory looks a little more likely. Particularly in terms of how she handled Slade at the end.
Nthing the wigs in the flashbacks continue to be horrible. I shouldn't be surprised that Ollie killed the dealer, but I sort of was, and I guess that says a lot about how far he's come.
posted by immlass at 7:39 PM on February 20, 2015
Nthing the wigs in the flashbacks continue to be horrible. I shouldn't be surprised that Ollie killed the dealer, but I sort of was, and I guess that says a lot about how far he's come.
posted by immlass at 7:39 PM on February 20, 2015
Okay, upon finally getting around to watching it, it wasn't that good except for Thea telling Malcolm off at the end. Mostly because hoo boy, did I hate that Oliver was just lurkin' round town in a hoodie without anyone except a random drug dealer recognizing him. Come ONNNNNNNNNNN. Dumb, Arrow.
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:25 AM on February 24, 2015
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:25 AM on February 24, 2015
I hate that Oliver was just lurkin' round town in a hoodie without anyone except a random drug dealer recognizing him.
But it gave us the very on-the-nose "That wouldn't work even if you smeared greasepaint all over your face!" line
A little disappointed that we didn't get any Moira in the flashbacks, even if only as an offscreen voice while Oliver was sneaking around Chez Queen.
posted by kagredon at 5:39 PM on March 29, 2015
But it gave us the very on-the-nose "That wouldn't work even if you smeared greasepaint all over your face!" line
A little disappointed that we didn't get any Moira in the flashbacks, even if only as an offscreen voice while Oliver was sneaking around Chez Queen.
posted by kagredon at 5:39 PM on March 29, 2015
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I'm not sure whether to be amused or appalled at Laurel "pouring one out for her homie." Alternative options to dislocating a shoulder: a shoe, a belt, a pair of pants, blankets.
Isn't this a different Tommy from previous episodes?
posted by Ik ben afgesneden at 10:19 PM on February 18, 2015