Severance: Sweet Vitriol
March 6, 2025 6:08 PM - Season 2, Episode 8 - Subscribe
Discoveries are made.
🎶 Sweeet vitriol, bah bah bah 🎵
🎶 Sweeet vitriol, bah bah bah 🎵
It's been a while since we've seen Harmony Cobel! I thought Gemma's episode last week might get in the way of an episode for Cobel but I guess not.
Salt's Neck, explained
"Huff peddler"
posted by Pronoiac at 6:53 PM on March 6 [4 favorites]
Salt's Neck, explained
"Huff peddler"
posted by Pronoiac at 6:53 PM on March 6 [4 favorites]
i’m 20 minutes into this and what the fuck
posted by knock my sock and i'll clean your clock at 7:03 PM on March 6 [5 favorites]
posted by knock my sock and i'll clean your clock at 7:03 PM on March 6 [5 favorites]
roughly 40% of this season feels to me like the storyboards are so manicured that it wraps back around to sloppiness. like it would make a hell of a graphic novel but the realtime pacing of, at the very least, the dialogue is real heavyhanded; and i'd rather an episode that is better-paced but seven-minutes-short instead of holding the perfect amount of time on the perfect shot. i know others have brought up similar
But it was great to get backstory into Ms. Cobel and her motives to set up the overall arc & all the actors are doing a great job.
posted by QDeesp at 7:05 PM on March 6 [5 favorites]
But it was great to get backstory into Ms. Cobel and her motives to set up the overall arc & all the actors are doing a great job.
posted by QDeesp at 7:05 PM on March 6 [5 favorites]
I've been meh at aspects of this season, and hearing rumors there'd be 2 consecutive episodes without seeing 3 of the MDR gang left me cold. So to speak..
But I liked Cobel's backstory and especially the ending twist, as well as seeing the wonderful Jane Alexander in a meaty role.
Also, I'm such a germophobe, I blanched watching Cobel suck on that old tube and share the huffing rag.
posted by NorthernLite at 7:05 PM on March 6 [7 favorites]
But I liked Cobel's backstory and especially the ending twist, as well as seeing the wonderful Jane Alexander in a meaty role.
Also, I'm such a germophobe, I blanched watching Cobel suck on that old tube and share the huffing rag.
posted by NorthernLite at 7:05 PM on March 6 [7 favorites]
Found the Cold Harbor I guess. Was the aunt supposed to look like an extra from Midsommar?
Devoting an entire episode to this feels like a waste, particularly a waste of the momentum of last week’s episode. After seeing what Gemma is going through I’m finding it hard to feel sorry for Harmony.
posted by orrnyereg at 7:13 PM on March 6 [5 favorites]
Devoting an entire episode to this feels like a waste, particularly a waste of the momentum of last week’s episode. After seeing what Gemma is going through I’m finding it hard to feel sorry for Harmony.
posted by orrnyereg at 7:13 PM on March 6 [5 favorites]
I always wondered whatever became of Wade Messer.
posted by HillbillyInBC at 7:14 PM on March 6 [2 favorites]
posted by HillbillyInBC at 7:14 PM on March 6 [2 favorites]
I didn’t love this; I’m not a big Harmony fan.
Is it worth thinking about how a child laborer in a dangerous industry grew up to invent a biotech device that prevents you from remembering the hours you spent at work? It seems from last episode like the current leadership have other uses in mind, but… Harmony’s goal here really could have been what it said on the tin. Doesn’t explain her fascination with reintegration, though, so perhaps not.
posted by eirias at 7:18 PM on March 6 [5 favorites]
Is it worth thinking about how a child laborer in a dangerous industry grew up to invent a biotech device that prevents you from remembering the hours you spent at work? It seems from last episode like the current leadership have other uses in mind, but… Harmony’s goal here really could have been what it said on the tin. Doesn’t explain her fascination with reintegration, though, so perhaps not.
posted by eirias at 7:18 PM on March 6 [5 favorites]
Shades of [Milton Hershey School](https://www.pennlive.com/opinion/2015/10/chocolate_trust_book_story.html), but I think the ether has less vomit aftertaste.
posted by pwnguin at 7:24 PM on March 6 [2 favorites]
posted by pwnguin at 7:24 PM on March 6 [2 favorites]
And another thing: WHY would a reintegrated Mark want to tell her anything, let alone everything? She betrayed his innie and his outtie! I don’t understand why Devon (my favorite character) would even dream of contacting Cobel. It’s the first thing in the show that feels really contrived.
posted by orrnyereg at 7:25 PM on March 6 [16 favorites]
posted by orrnyereg at 7:25 PM on March 6 [16 favorites]
Remind me of the priors for Salt’s Neck?
The opening of S2E023 has Cobel driving on the highway, and when we next see her, there's a sign that says "Salt's Neck, 200 miles." Indicating after she was fired and drove off, she was heading there. Now we know why. But I'm still not sure why it took her two uturns to arrive there.
Of course, she seems upset that she isn't getting the credit for inventing hell, which makes the Cobel redemption arc... tricky. I'd have to thumb through the notebook stills to know if she left any motives in it for the project.
posted by pwnguin at 7:31 PM on March 6 [5 favorites]
The opening of S2E023 has Cobel driving on the highway, and when we next see her, there's a sign that says "Salt's Neck, 200 miles." Indicating after she was fired and drove off, she was heading there. Now we know why. But I'm still not sure why it took her two uturns to arrive there.
Of course, she seems upset that she isn't getting the credit for inventing hell, which makes the Cobel redemption arc... tricky. I'd have to thumb through the notebook stills to know if she left any motives in it for the project.
posted by pwnguin at 7:31 PM on March 6 [5 favorites]
This episode felt flat for me. It was too little information stretched over too much time. And I agree - why would Mark or Devon want to talk to Cobel? She's proven herself to be a treacherous liar.
Also, is it just me or is the sound really bad? I've been using subtitles.
posted by grumpybear69 at 7:59 PM on March 6 [12 favorites]
Also, is it just me or is the sound really bad? I've been using subtitles.
posted by grumpybear69 at 7:59 PM on March 6 [12 favorites]
Is Celestine “Sissy” Cobel the sister of Charlotte Cobel? And Harmony's aunt?
Also I wonder if Helena knows that Jame stole Harmony's IP?
posted by torticat at 8:02 PM on March 6
Also I wonder if Helena knows that Jame stole Harmony's IP?
posted by torticat at 8:02 PM on March 6
why would Mark or Devon want to talk to Cobel?
I guess... since Mark knows that Cobel was fired and didn't leave Lumon on good terms, maybe they think she could be an ally? Seems kinda like kind of an all-or-nothing risk to take though. Cobel could either be super helpful to them (since she knows everything) or she could get them killed. (or, if not them, Gemma!)
Also this reminds me of a question I had last week--why did Devon say to Reghabi "we're not doing this again" or something like that? Had Mark told her about Petey, is that what she meant?
posted by torticat at 8:12 PM on March 6 [1 favorite]
I guess... since Mark knows that Cobel was fired and didn't leave Lumon on good terms, maybe they think she could be an ally? Seems kinda like kind of an all-or-nothing risk to take though. Cobel could either be super helpful to them (since she knows everything) or she could get them killed. (or, if not them, Gemma!)
Also this reminds me of a question I had last week--why did Devon say to Reghabi "we're not doing this again" or something like that? Had Mark told her about Petey, is that what she meant?
posted by torticat at 8:12 PM on March 6 [1 favorite]
Yeah I think Devon is motivated by not letting Raghabi further mess with Mark's brain, and seeing Cobel as a potential alternative.
posted by nightcoast at 8:16 PM on March 6 [1 favorite]
posted by nightcoast at 8:16 PM on March 6 [1 favorite]
why would Mark or Devon want to talk to Cobel?
I just want to point out, Devon is in Cobel's phone as Devon Scout, not Devon (Rickon's Lastname).
By the rules of narrative storytelling, this means Rickon's surname is Important.
posted by coriolisdave at 9:02 PM on March 6 [2 favorites]
I just want to point out, Devon is in Cobel's phone as Devon Scout, not Devon (Rickon's Lastname).
By the rules of narrative storytelling, this means Rickon's surname is Important.
posted by coriolisdave at 9:02 PM on March 6 [2 favorites]
Hale is his surname, unsure it’s meant something significant in the show until now.
posted by migurski at 9:49 PM on March 6 [2 favorites]
posted by migurski at 9:49 PM on March 6 [2 favorites]
Dr. Ricken Lazlo Hale, PhD’s full name isn’t a secret, it’s on the cover of The You You Are.
posted by zsazsa at 9:49 PM on March 6 [4 favorites]
posted by zsazsa at 9:49 PM on March 6 [4 favorites]
Fascinating episode. More weird arcana and backstory, but maybe it's a digression that's not worth it? Who the hell knows? It felt a bit like when Katniss Everdeen's returns to District 12 and the desolation there. It sure is evocative, but does it really make sense?
And I feel compelled to share my little bit of knowledge about the Bird Mark 7. I shouted when I saw it used in the episode.
posted by artlung at 9:49 PM on March 6 [18 favorites]
And I feel compelled to share my little bit of knowledge about the Bird Mark 7. I shouted when I saw it used in the episode.
posted by artlung at 9:49 PM on March 6 [18 favorites]
Hell, I can't figure out why Devon would even be married to Ricken, let alone have his baby. So, yeah, maybe judgment is questionable. But this is a pretty topsy turvy universe, so I'll allow it.
I kind of wish the show would stay exploring the nature of work/life separation that we got in season 1, because I think there's lots of veins to mine there. I'm thinking the continuing exposition of the cult/corporation Lumon is spreading things thin. This second season has gotten into the weeds in a lot of ways. It keeps me curious enough to return, tho.
One of the most compelling things for me in this season has been the feeling that Dylan's successful and productive innie may be more admired by his wife, than as his kind-of-loser and inadequate outie. Is she despairing, knowing that she'll never really get that better half in real life? Only the half personality she gets to see during visitor hours?
posted by 2N2222 at 9:51 PM on March 6 [3 favorites]
I kind of wish the show would stay exploring the nature of work/life separation that we got in season 1, because I think there's lots of veins to mine there. I'm thinking the continuing exposition of the cult/corporation Lumon is spreading things thin. This second season has gotten into the weeds in a lot of ways. It keeps me curious enough to return, tho.
One of the most compelling things for me in this season has been the feeling that Dylan's successful and productive innie may be more admired by his wife, than as his kind-of-loser and inadequate outie. Is she despairing, knowing that she'll never really get that better half in real life? Only the half personality she gets to see during visitor hours?
posted by 2N2222 at 9:51 PM on March 6 [3 favorites]
I don't mind that this week was so very much about vibes, but it could've used a bit more of a skeleton. There are two pieces of information that we needed to get: (a) Harmony grew up in the ether mines, and (b) she invented severance only for Jame Eagan to take all the credit. (I know the loss of her mother drives her quite a bit, but until we learn more about her — all I know so far is that she hated Lumon — I don't know how much it matters to the narrative.)
The rest of it had the pace of a Danish murder show. Maybe it's just me, but after the third straight scene without dialogue, I start looking at my phone.
I agree that it's unfortunate to have two unconventional episodes consecutively, though I think that's just how it fell into place; better this than to try to insert an artificial spacer in between them.
I had been thinking of her as a Kier True Believer until this episode. I thought her thing was that she believed Kier's ideals had been debased by modern-day Lumon and that she knew better; it would explain why she wanted her job back. Now it seems more like she's been deprogrammed, and that most of it happened off camera. Would've been nice to use that episode to show her shift in thinking, but she seems to come into town already bitter.
posted by savetheclocktower at 10:31 PM on March 6 [4 favorites]
The rest of it had the pace of a Danish murder show. Maybe it's just me, but after the third straight scene without dialogue, I start looking at my phone.
I agree that it's unfortunate to have two unconventional episodes consecutively, though I think that's just how it fell into place; better this than to try to insert an artificial spacer in between them.
I had been thinking of her as a Kier True Believer until this episode. I thought her thing was that she believed Kier's ideals had been debased by modern-day Lumon and that she knew better; it would explain why she wanted her job back. Now it seems more like she's been deprogrammed, and that most of it happened off camera. Would've been nice to use that episode to show her shift in thinking, but she seems to come into town already bitter.
posted by savetheclocktower at 10:31 PM on March 6 [4 favorites]
OK, I'm apparently in the minority because I loved the episode. Doesn't hurt that I'm a big Patricia Arquette fan.
Didn't think Harmony would turn out to be the inventor of the Severance chip, but that would be a great help for Mark's re-integration.
posted by Pendragon at 12:19 AM on March 7 [15 favorites]
Didn't think Harmony would turn out to be the inventor of the Severance chip, but that would be a great help for Mark's re-integration.
posted by Pendragon at 12:19 AM on March 7 [15 favorites]
it's unfortunate to have two unconventional episodes consecutively, though I think that's just how it fell into place;
Also allows a bit more “show time” to pass, allowing Mark’s reintegration to fast-forward off-screen.
Otherwise that would all seem very rushed.
posted by coriolisdave at 12:23 AM on March 7 [3 favorites]
Also allows a bit more “show time” to pass, allowing Mark’s reintegration to fast-forward off-screen.
Otherwise that would all seem very rushed.
posted by coriolisdave at 12:23 AM on March 7 [3 favorites]
I haven't seen the ep yet, just read the Wikipedia recap. Reading up on ether, I came across a reference to 19th century 'ether frolics' (frolics? hmmm) Participants would accidentally injure themselves but would not feel the pain at the timr, nor remember the event once the ether wore off — hence its value as anesthesia.
So, in-universe, I suspect 1) Kier wrote his bibles/invented his philosophy while high as a kite on ether and 2) ether's effects led to the Eagans sanctioning research that led to the Severance Chip/Procedure.
posted by zaixfeep at 3:26 AM on March 7 [7 favorites]
So, in-universe, I suspect 1) Kier wrote his bibles/invented his philosophy while high as a kite on ether and 2) ether's effects led to the Eagans sanctioning research that led to the Severance Chip/Procedure.
posted by zaixfeep at 3:26 AM on March 7 [7 favorites]
To me, Harmony is like The Prisoner Leo McKern's #2, killed and brought back to life via secret tech he was not privy to. And, seeing he was just another fungible cog and not the privileged, in-on-all-the-secrets 'prince' in the org he thought he was, he joins #6 in open rebellion against The Village.
Cobel was a lifer to the cause, as well as the inventor of the signature technology product of modern Lumon, and as such she didn't appreciate being treated or fired like a mere rank-and-filer. So she's coming back and she's gonna burn the place to the ground, I bet.
posted by zaixfeep at 3:39 AM on March 7 [4 favorites]
Cobel was a lifer to the cause, as well as the inventor of the signature technology product of modern Lumon, and as such she didn't appreciate being treated or fired like a mere rank-and-filer. So she's coming back and she's gonna burn the place to the ground, I bet.
posted by zaixfeep at 3:39 AM on March 7 [4 favorites]
By the rules of narrative storytelling, this means Rickon's surname is important.
Hale is his surname, unsure it’s meant something significant in the show until now.
Dr. Ricken Lazlo Hale, PhD’s full name isn’t a secret, it’s on the cover of The You You Are.
I don’t have a theory about this, but “Ricken L Hale” sounds to my ear like a sort of inversion of “Helly R.”
posted by gauche at 4:33 AM on March 7 [1 favorite]
Hale is his surname, unsure it’s meant something significant in the show until now.
Dr. Ricken Lazlo Hale, PhD’s full name isn’t a secret, it’s on the cover of The You You Are.
I don’t have a theory about this, but “Ricken L Hale” sounds to my ear like a sort of inversion of “Helly R.”
posted by gauche at 4:33 AM on March 7 [1 favorite]
Also I wonder if Helena knows that Jame stole Harmony's IP?
I asked this Q and think I found the answer. Worth rewatching episode 2, about six minutes in, conversation between Helena and Harmony, goes more or less like this—
- Thank you… you saved us from disaster.
- Will Mr Eagan be joining?
- It’s just me. I personally owe you a debt of gratitude
- It cost me dearly.
- It did. And still you proved your loyalty tonight. Which is why we’d like to ask you back.
-An apology is warranted.
-I apologize. My father apologizes. The board apologizes. We’ve treated you poorly. I’m sorry.
-I welcome your contrition.
In light of new information, it seems this exchange doesn’t have to do primarily with Lumon’s firing of Harmony, but is referencing mistreatment of Harmony that goes much deeper and further back, to the Kiers’ theft of her work.
Also of course the parking lot conversation (ep 3) reads differently now. “Not because I was born into it” may have been partially aimed at Helena, but she wasn’t its primary target.
Given all that, it seems easier to parse Harmony's motivations. Maybe she had stuck with Lumon (and even the Kier religion) over the years as she worked within the company to try to reclaim ownership/recognition of her own work, a project that she originally conceived of and which apparently culminates with Cold Harbor. Alternatively, maybe she had been trying to undermine the work, since it had been stolen from her, with her unauthorized work on reintegration. (I'm not sure how to square the latter, though, with the fact that she'd been praying at her personal Kier shrine as recently as a couple weeks ago?)
In any case, her disillusionment with Kier didn't just start building over the period of time we have seen on the show. Her sense of ownership and entitlement (and betrayal) goes waaaaay back--however much her indoctrination had led her to suppress it.
posted by torticat at 5:33 AM on March 7 [5 favorites]
I asked this Q and think I found the answer. Worth rewatching episode 2, about six minutes in, conversation between Helena and Harmony, goes more or less like this—
- Thank you… you saved us from disaster.
- Will Mr Eagan be joining?
- It’s just me. I personally owe you a debt of gratitude
- It cost me dearly.
- It did. And still you proved your loyalty tonight. Which is why we’d like to ask you back.
-An apology is warranted.
-I apologize. My father apologizes. The board apologizes. We’ve treated you poorly. I’m sorry.
-I welcome your contrition.
In light of new information, it seems this exchange doesn’t have to do primarily with Lumon’s firing of Harmony, but is referencing mistreatment of Harmony that goes much deeper and further back, to the Kiers’ theft of her work.
Also of course the parking lot conversation (ep 3) reads differently now. “Not because I was born into it” may have been partially aimed at Helena, but she wasn’t its primary target.
Given all that, it seems easier to parse Harmony's motivations. Maybe she had stuck with Lumon (and even the Kier religion) over the years as she worked within the company to try to reclaim ownership/recognition of her own work, a project that she originally conceived of and which apparently culminates with Cold Harbor. Alternatively, maybe she had been trying to undermine the work, since it had been stolen from her, with her unauthorized work on reintegration. (I'm not sure how to square the latter, though, with the fact that she'd been praying at her personal Kier shrine as recently as a couple weeks ago?)
In any case, her disillusionment with Kier didn't just start building over the period of time we have seen on the show. Her sense of ownership and entitlement (and betrayal) goes waaaaay back--however much her indoctrination had led her to suppress it.
posted by torticat at 5:33 AM on March 7 [5 favorites]
(I'm not sure how to square the latter, though, with the fact that she'd been praying at her personal Kier shrine as recently as a couple weeks ago?
I'm guessing she feels that Lumon is a perversion of Kier's teachings. She seems a lot more fundie than the Eagans, having more in common with innie Irving in that respect. Even when she is in front of the old ether factory with her childhood buddy she speaks reverently of Kier and Imogen's meeting.
posted by grumpybear69 at 5:59 AM on March 7 [4 favorites]
I'm guessing she feels that Lumon is a perversion of Kier's teachings. She seems a lot more fundie than the Eagans, having more in common with innie Irving in that respect. Even when she is in front of the old ether factory with her childhood buddy she speaks reverently of Kier and Imogen's meeting.
posted by grumpybear69 at 5:59 AM on March 7 [4 favorites]
This episode feels very much like "This meeting could have been an email." The whole thing could have been two or three scenes in another, better episode. It's the first episode of the show that I'm meh about other than the reveal that Cobel invented Severance, which is a might good reveal. That could have been in another episode.
By the rules of narrative storytelling, this means Rickon's surname is Important.
Others have answered this, but I think it just means some combo of Devon didn't take Ricken's last name in marriage (believable, though it's possible I'm not remembering evidence to the contrary), and/or Cobel thinks of Devon only in as much as she is Mark's family, and Ricken is not of interest to Cobel.
posted by tzikeh at 6:21 AM on March 7 [11 favorites]
By the rules of narrative storytelling, this means Rickon's surname is Important.
Others have answered this, but I think it just means some combo of Devon didn't take Ricken's last name in marriage (believable, though it's possible I'm not remembering evidence to the contrary), and/or Cobel thinks of Devon only in as much as she is Mark's family, and Ricken is not of interest to Cobel.
posted by tzikeh at 6:21 AM on March 7 [11 favorites]
it's unfortunate to have two unconventional episodes consecutively, though I think that's just how it fell into place;
Also allows a bit more “show time” to pass, allowing Mark’s reintegration to fast-forward off-screen. Otherwise that would all seem very rushed.
No show time has passed between last week's episode and this one - Devon was calling Cobel at the end of last week's episode and that phone call comes through at the end of this one. They happened simultaneously.
posted by tzikeh at 6:34 AM on March 7 [1 favorite]
Also allows a bit more “show time” to pass, allowing Mark’s reintegration to fast-forward off-screen. Otherwise that would all seem very rushed.
No show time has passed between last week's episode and this one - Devon was calling Cobel at the end of last week's episode and that phone call comes through at the end of this one. They happened simultaneously.
posted by tzikeh at 6:34 AM on March 7 [1 favorite]
Devon's full name (on IMDB) is Devon Scout-Hale. Interesting that Cobel saw through that, though, and dropped the Hale.
posted by Grangousier at 6:35 AM on March 7
posted by Grangousier at 6:35 AM on March 7
Oh, and the phone call from last week came at the beginning of this one - the one at the end was a whole new phone call after Mark's woken up.
(and talked through what to do next with Devon)
posted by Grangousier at 6:36 AM on March 7 [3 favorites]
(and talked through what to do next with Devon)
posted by Grangousier at 6:36 AM on March 7 [3 favorites]
Yeah, this was the first episode where I didn't feel like rushing to talk to somebody about it immediately after it ended. I'm sure the revelations in it will end up being important to the narrative, but it sorta feels stapled on rather than woven in (last episode Devon: "I'm going to call Harmony Cobel; maybe she knows something about severance and reintegration and would have reason to help us", this episode Harmony: "I invented severance, and also definitely don't like Lumon anymore!").
Maybe some hints that Cobel had a medical devices background, a coding background, anything ... would have helped a bit, I'm not sure. I guess this does go a way towards explaining her unsanctioned work testing the bounds of Mark's and Gemma's severance, though.
That said, I guess she's had a wild life, huffing ether as a child worker at 8 years old, inventing a remote controlled brain implant somewhere along the way, then managing 4-6 people in what we now know is just one of the many severed locations in the world.
I did love the setting, and it was great to get this back story, but we've got two episodes left in this season and I guess this one just ended up feeling like an obligatory moving of the chess pieces to prepare for that. My one question would be: why was Harmony going back to a very uncomfortable place from her past to get her original plans for the severance procedure? What would her goal be?
posted by destructive cactus at 6:39 AM on March 7 [5 favorites]
Maybe some hints that Cobel had a medical devices background, a coding background, anything ... would have helped a bit, I'm not sure. I guess this does go a way towards explaining her unsanctioned work testing the bounds of Mark's and Gemma's severance, though.
That said, I guess she's had a wild life, huffing ether as a child worker at 8 years old, inventing a remote controlled brain implant somewhere along the way, then managing 4-6 people in what we now know is just one of the many severed locations in the world.
I did love the setting, and it was great to get this back story, but we've got two episodes left in this season and I guess this one just ended up feeling like an obligatory moving of the chess pieces to prepare for that. My one question would be: why was Harmony going back to a very uncomfortable place from her past to get her original plans for the severance procedure? What would her goal be?
posted by destructive cactus at 6:39 AM on March 7 [5 favorites]
I’m guessing she’s off to prove she’s the inventor of severance, and the original plans will support that.
posted by umber vowel at 7:19 AM on March 7 [1 favorite]
posted by umber vowel at 7:19 AM on March 7 [1 favorite]
she speaks reverently of Kier and Imogen's meeting
grumpybear68, I don't think that was reverence. Harmony was clearly disgusted by the addiction rampant in the town. And she and Hampton exchanged some dark humor about child labor, after they huffed together. He asked her if she was ready to go stir the vats, I think? Doubtful she was thinking about Kier's and Imogen's courtship in the same way she used to, what with all the destruction she'd now seen that Kier had wreaked on the town and its people.
posted by torticat at 7:32 AM on March 7 [1 favorite]
grumpybear68, I don't think that was reverence. Harmony was clearly disgusted by the addiction rampant in the town. And she and Hampton exchanged some dark humor about child labor, after they huffed together. He asked her if she was ready to go stir the vats, I think? Doubtful she was thinking about Kier's and Imogen's courtship in the same way she used to, what with all the destruction she'd now seen that Kier had wreaked on the town and its people.
posted by torticat at 7:32 AM on March 7 [1 favorite]
Is Celestine “Sissy” Cobel the sister of Charlotte Cobel? And Harmony's aunt?
yep
posted by knock my sock and i'll clean your clock at 7:38 AM on March 7
yep
posted by knock my sock and i'll clean your clock at 7:38 AM on March 7
I wish the show would stay exploring the nature of work/life separation that we got in season 1 ... the continuing exposition of the cult/corporation Lumon is spreading things thin. This second season has gotten into the weeds in a lot of ways.
Kier mythology bores me. I'm more interested in the modern corporation of Lumon.
S1 episodes told a complete story within that episode featuring most of the main characters, but with the breadcrumbs leading to Next.
This season:
Three episodes building to Mark's reintegration and then ... they're all at a retreat? With a Helena reveal at the end that many had already guessed. (And those unexplained logistical questions.)
Compare to 109, where the audience is rewarded up front that Helly is Helena, and that's only one of three main plots, all centered on similar experiences.
Perhaps the Gemma / Cobel episodes could've been combined, paralleling the story of Severance's true origins outside and the ultimate horror of its use inside.
But oddly, of the two, I felt a more satisfactory wind up from Cobels story. We got her background and motivation. But I came away from the previous episode still confused about aspects of Gemma's backstory.
posted by NorthernLite at 7:45 AM on March 7 [3 favorites]
Kier mythology bores me. I'm more interested in the modern corporation of Lumon.
S1 episodes told a complete story within that episode featuring most of the main characters, but with the breadcrumbs leading to Next.
This season:
Three episodes building to Mark's reintegration and then ... they're all at a retreat? With a Helena reveal at the end that many had already guessed. (And those unexplained logistical questions.)
Compare to 109, where the audience is rewarded up front that Helly is Helena, and that's only one of three main plots, all centered on similar experiences.
Perhaps the Gemma / Cobel episodes could've been combined, paralleling the story of Severance's true origins outside and the ultimate horror of its use inside.
But oddly, of the two, I felt a more satisfactory wind up from Cobels story. We got her background and motivation. But I came away from the previous episode still confused about aspects of Gemma's backstory.
posted by NorthernLite at 7:45 AM on March 7 [3 favorites]
I haven't seen the ep yet, just read the Wikipedia recap. Reading up on ether, I came across a reference to 19th century 'ether frolics' (frolics? hmmm) Participants would accidentally injure themselves but would not feel the pain at the time, nor remember the event once the ether wore off — hence its value as anesthesia.
I noticed that two of the pieces of ephemera that Sissy had in her room used the unusual motto:
YOU MUST
BE CUT
TO HEAL
And I thought what odd self-help advice but what a great promotion for anesthetized surgery.
posted by Stanczyk at 7:56 AM on March 7 [6 favorites]
I noticed that two of the pieces of ephemera that Sissy had in her room used the unusual motto:
YOU MUST
BE CUT
TO HEAL
And I thought what odd self-help advice but what a great promotion for anesthetized surgery.
posted by Stanczyk at 7:56 AM on March 7 [6 favorites]
This episode also reminded me a bit of the tetraethyl lead catastrophe Standard Oil created in Elizabeth, N.J. in the 1920s.
posted by Stanczyk at 8:05 AM on March 7 [4 favorites]
posted by Stanczyk at 8:05 AM on March 7 [4 favorites]
The dental procedure(s) in the last episode is followed by ether and a breathing machine (Bird 7!) in this one. Lots of anesthesia in here. And also recreational usage of ether. Ether is archaic, mostly, but if Wikipedia is to be believed there are still some users of ether. (Kids, please don't try this at home).
Severance-as-anesthetic is a replacement for anesthesia you are effectively creating a person to torture, which is you, you just won't remember whatever pain is induced on that inner created persona. But the trauma is still there. So for a pregnancy, does this imply that the pregnant persona doesn't get an epidural? Or am I overthinking?
Severance is an induced dissociation--creation of a multiple personality disorder that is under the control of an external entity. There's no internal regulating persona to manage the need for the another personality to take over, it's the company that decides.
I said something a few weeks back to my girlfriend--that this show is more science-fictional than most Star Trek episodes. The technologies in Trek mostly flow from things we want to do, but much much much faster and much much much smaller. Severance is like... how weird can we treat our minds and what if we put a corporation in charge of it all?
posted by artlung at 8:16 AM on March 7 [11 favorites]
Severance-as-anesthetic is a replacement for anesthesia you are effectively creating a person to torture, which is you, you just won't remember whatever pain is induced on that inner created persona. But the trauma is still there. So for a pregnancy, does this imply that the pregnant persona doesn't get an epidural? Or am I overthinking?
Severance is an induced dissociation--creation of a multiple personality disorder that is under the control of an external entity. There's no internal regulating persona to manage the need for the another personality to take over, it's the company that decides.
I said something a few weeks back to my girlfriend--that this show is more science-fictional than most Star Trek episodes. The technologies in Trek mostly flow from things we want to do, but much much much faster and much much much smaller. Severance is like... how weird can we treat our minds and what if we put a corporation in charge of it all?
posted by artlung at 8:16 AM on March 7 [11 favorites]
Also, is it just me or is the sound really bad? I've been using subtitles.
Yes, I had to rewind a few times to try to get what the characters are saying.
posted by essexjan at 8:36 AM on March 7 [1 favorite]
Yes, I had to rewind a few times to try to get what the characters are saying.
posted by essexjan at 8:36 AM on March 7 [1 favorite]
two of the pieces of ephemera that Sissy had in her room used the unusual motto:
YOU MUST
BE CUT
TO HEAL
I think "Mrs Selvig" had that hanging in her house.
posted by NorthernLite at 8:47 AM on March 7 [2 favorites]
YOU MUST
BE CUT
TO HEAL
I think "Mrs Selvig" had that hanging in her house.
posted by NorthernLite at 8:47 AM on March 7 [2 favorites]
I loved the visuals of this episode, but I think was also a little confused - for me, Harmony had a clear enough motivation before; she was a true believer in the Kier cult and more loyal to it than she was to Lumon, she had beliefs about the powers of the technology (e.g. reintegration) that Lumon didn't share, she was more useful than dangerous to them until that switched, she was in the middle of a turn of some sort, etc. She was intense but unstable, a potent enough force just as what we knew her to be.
That she turns out to have invented severance seems very surprising, and somehow feels more like a rope being pushed than pulled, a development that, while it does fit her earlier dialogues with Helena as torticat points out, also adds a bunch of new ideas and dynamics and changes her character and her place in the story by a huge amount in a way that didn't feel like the show was previously hinting at or building towards. Maybe this will make more sense on reflection and if I go back and rewatch (I think I remember Devon talking to her about Mark's severance in season 1, maybe there's more to that scene than I thought), but it feels a bit like when TV shows or movies decide that everything significant in the world happened with their small cast. And we already had a character who ostensibly was "the real scientist" behind Lumon's efforts turned rebel - Raghabi.
I suppose that given that Mark is the chosen refiner in some way, it makes sense for Harmony to be overseeing him, and then for her to be offered a position on the made-up severance advisor council - and this explains more why the company sees her as a threat. But for someone who's a brilliant scientist, as destructive cactus said, where is her nerdery? We've gotten to know her pretty well, especially in season 1, seen inside her house, watched her interact with others, and that side didn't seem to come out so much, I think.
posted by nightcoast at 9:29 AM on March 7 [6 favorites]
That she turns out to have invented severance seems very surprising, and somehow feels more like a rope being pushed than pulled, a development that, while it does fit her earlier dialogues with Helena as torticat points out, also adds a bunch of new ideas and dynamics and changes her character and her place in the story by a huge amount in a way that didn't feel like the show was previously hinting at or building towards. Maybe this will make more sense on reflection and if I go back and rewatch (I think I remember Devon talking to her about Mark's severance in season 1, maybe there's more to that scene than I thought), but it feels a bit like when TV shows or movies decide that everything significant in the world happened with their small cast. And we already had a character who ostensibly was "the real scientist" behind Lumon's efforts turned rebel - Raghabi.
I suppose that given that Mark is the chosen refiner in some way, it makes sense for Harmony to be overseeing him, and then for her to be offered a position on the made-up severance advisor council - and this explains more why the company sees her as a threat. But for someone who's a brilliant scientist, as destructive cactus said, where is her nerdery? We've gotten to know her pretty well, especially in season 1, seen inside her house, watched her interact with others, and that side didn't seem to come out so much, I think.
posted by nightcoast at 9:29 AM on March 7 [6 favorites]
Also, is it just me or is the sound really bad? I've been using subtitles.
I need subtitles for this show too.
I enjoyed this episode as a Patricia Arquette fan but the comparison to a Danish murder show is apt for this episode, I also checked my phone more than normal!
posted by ellieBOA at 10:20 AM on March 7 [1 favorite]
I need subtitles for this show too.
I enjoyed this episode as a Patricia Arquette fan but the comparison to a Danish murder show is apt for this episode, I also checked my phone more than normal!
posted by ellieBOA at 10:20 AM on March 7 [1 favorite]
I just want the opening water shots as a screen saver.
posted by willF at 11:11 AM on March 7 [9 favorites]
posted by willF at 11:11 AM on March 7 [9 favorites]
This episode feels very much like "This meeting could have been an email." The whole thing could have been two or three scenes in another, better episode.
Personally, I watch Severance for its vibe more than its plot.
posted by fairmettle at 12:47 PM on March 7 [13 favorites]
Personally, I watch Severance for its vibe more than its plot.
posted by fairmettle at 12:47 PM on March 7 [13 favorites]
"I think you've overestimated your contributions and underestimated your blessings."
Looks like this line is pretty important to the season and, in conjunction with this episode, likely explains why Harmony turned and ran from the meeting with Helena and the board.
posted by azpenguin at 1:13 PM on March 7 [7 favorites]
Looks like this line is pretty important to the season and, in conjunction with this episode, likely explains why Harmony turned and ran from the meeting with Helena and the board.
posted by azpenguin at 1:13 PM on March 7 [7 favorites]
Mmmm, it wasn’t a bad hour of tv, but I would rather have had the goat lady for an hour
posted by The River Ivel at 1:24 PM on March 7 [3 favorites]
posted by The River Ivel at 1:24 PM on March 7 [3 favorites]
...likely explains why Harmony turned and ran from the meeting with Helena and the board.
The impression I got was she thought she was going to end up like Carlo in the Godfather.
posted by orrnyereg at 1:59 PM on March 7
The impression I got was she thought she was going to end up like Carlo in the Godfather.
posted by orrnyereg at 1:59 PM on March 7
"I think you've overestimated your contributions and underestimated your blessings."
So, unless I'm remembering incorrectly, Harmony was already driving to her hometown before she decided to come back and end up hearing this line. So, was she already going there to get her notebook?
Then, maybe when she heard this line, she thought that Helena doesn't know about her role as the creator of severance, and so resumed her original plan?
So she may currently be very anti-Lumon, and even offer to share her experience to 'help' Mark, but who is to say she doesn't use all this in some destructive act to prove to Helena that she deserves more from Lumon?
posted by destructive cactus at 2:26 PM on March 7 [3 favorites]
So, unless I'm remembering incorrectly, Harmony was already driving to her hometown before she decided to come back and end up hearing this line. So, was she already going there to get her notebook?
Then, maybe when she heard this line, she thought that Helena doesn't know about her role as the creator of severance, and so resumed her original plan?
So she may currently be very anti-Lumon, and even offer to share her experience to 'help' Mark, but who is to say she doesn't use all this in some destructive act to prove to Helena that she deserves more from Lumon?
posted by destructive cactus at 2:26 PM on March 7 [3 favorites]
wow. well i loved this ep! think it's one of the best.
but i also love Scandi-noir, so it's a vibe.
i don't get how so many people think this was a waste - it gave SO MANY ANSWERS. plus, a mind-blowing revelation. y'all can read an email if you wanna, but Patricia Arquette was phenomenal, she deserves an Emmy for that half hour. and ANY show with James Le Gros is wonderful. plus Jane Alexander! so much said, with no words spoken.
i read comments elsewhere questioning why Hampton would help someone he despises so deeply - it seems obvious that they were childhood sweethearts, torn apart by Lumon. he hates Lumon for the devastation they wrought on his life, and the life of the town. he saw Harmony as part of Lumon, but he also still loves her. along the line, he realizes she isn't "Lumon" anymore - she's become a chaos agent. i hope she burns it all down.
so much was conveyed, with so little dialogue. perfect example of "show, don't tell." Hampton wasn't filled with hatred, it was grief - for all that had been lost. Harmony Cobel invented Severance as an anesthesia for insufferable grief. she has such aching sorrow from her mother's illness and then death, it drove her to invent a way to rid herself of it. this episode was about loss, colored by grief in many shades.
and that's what's in Cold Harbor, the final room. she's always wanted reintegration to be part of the process, so that grief could be known but not felt. and then Lumon corrupted it, and is intent on turning it into a commodity for corporate profit, not betterment of humanity. of course she's furious and bitter.
oh and - the double-entendre of the episode title is perfect. VITRIOL. though they probably coulda gone with "Huff the Pain Away" as well. heh.
and ALL this, in just over 30 minutes? again, wow. just, WOW.
posted by lapolla at 4:33 PM on March 7 [31 favorites]
but i also love Scandi-noir, so it's a vibe.
i don't get how so many people think this was a waste - it gave SO MANY ANSWERS. plus, a mind-blowing revelation. y'all can read an email if you wanna, but Patricia Arquette was phenomenal, she deserves an Emmy for that half hour. and ANY show with James Le Gros is wonderful. plus Jane Alexander! so much said, with no words spoken.
i read comments elsewhere questioning why Hampton would help someone he despises so deeply - it seems obvious that they were childhood sweethearts, torn apart by Lumon. he hates Lumon for the devastation they wrought on his life, and the life of the town. he saw Harmony as part of Lumon, but he also still loves her. along the line, he realizes she isn't "Lumon" anymore - she's become a chaos agent. i hope she burns it all down.
so much was conveyed, with so little dialogue. perfect example of "show, don't tell." Hampton wasn't filled with hatred, it was grief - for all that had been lost. Harmony Cobel invented Severance as an anesthesia for insufferable grief. she has such aching sorrow from her mother's illness and then death, it drove her to invent a way to rid herself of it. this episode was about loss, colored by grief in many shades.
and that's what's in Cold Harbor, the final room. she's always wanted reintegration to be part of the process, so that grief could be known but not felt. and then Lumon corrupted it, and is intent on turning it into a commodity for corporate profit, not betterment of humanity. of course she's furious and bitter.
oh and - the double-entendre of the episode title is perfect. VITRIOL. though they probably coulda gone with "Huff the Pain Away" as well. heh.
and ALL this, in just over 30 minutes? again, wow. just, WOW.
posted by lapolla at 4:33 PM on March 7 [31 favorites]
yeah I loved this episode too but I do also really like Patricia Arquette and find the character to be fascinating as a tantalizing mystery who seems to have her own motivations that only partially align with those of Lumon
god I can’t wait for the other two episodes though
posted by DoctorFedora at 5:01 PM on March 7 [2 favorites]
god I can’t wait for the other two episodes though
posted by DoctorFedora at 5:01 PM on March 7 [2 favorites]
I liked the little bits and pieces of Kier imagery on display throughout Sissy’s room too, like the goat imagery and the waffle party masks
posted by DoctorFedora at 5:18 PM on March 7 [4 favorites]
posted by DoctorFedora at 5:18 PM on March 7 [4 favorites]
"two of the pieces of ephemera that Sissy had in her room used the unusual motto:
YOU MUST
BE CUT
TO HEAL"
I think "Mrs Selvig" had that hanging in her house.
I went went back to look and interestingly it was the collective:
WE MUST BE CUT
TO HEAL
as a cross stitch sampler.
Also, I too noticed the sound of the waves when Harmony was using her mother's respirator and it reminded me that normal relaxed breathing is medically referred to as tidal breathing.
posted by Stanczyk at 5:30 PM on March 7 [4 favorites]
YOU MUST
BE CUT
TO HEAL"
I think "Mrs Selvig" had that hanging in her house.
I went went back to look and interestingly it was the collective:
WE MUST BE CUT
TO HEAL
as a cross stitch sampler.
Also, I too noticed the sound of the waves when Harmony was using her mother's respirator and it reminded me that normal relaxed breathing is medically referred to as tidal breathing.
posted by Stanczyk at 5:30 PM on March 7 [4 favorites]
I’ve been thinking of the unlikelihood that Sobel could invent, by herself, the severance procedure; and, if she did, she’d write the plans up in a plain paper notebook.
If I’m being generous to the show, then I suspect what is meant by her overestimating her contributions is that she might have had some interesting thoughts and pictures, but she is deluded to think she invented it.
What do others think? Could Sobel have really invented severance in this world? Or is she deluded? Or is it bad writing?
posted by willF at 6:28 PM on March 7 [6 favorites]
If I’m being generous to the show, then I suspect what is meant by her overestimating her contributions is that she might have had some interesting thoughts and pictures, but she is deluded to think she invented it.
What do others think? Could Sobel have really invented severance in this world? Or is she deluded? Or is it bad writing?
posted by willF at 6:28 PM on March 7 [6 favorites]
In a universe where people can do not-very-sterile successful brain surgery in basements and severance is possible at all? Sure, Cobel could have cooked it up. It’s clearly a world without IRB or germs or neurology anything like our own.
posted by janell at 7:22 PM on March 7 [10 favorites]
posted by janell at 7:22 PM on March 7 [10 favorites]
This was a weak episode for me. It was too short - I think they could have done better with more time. The dialogue was a lot of mumbling. This is a phone down show for me and even with my full attention and the tv volume up I couldn’t always understand what was being said.
The good though: loved the vibe. Also I like that we’re seeing the world that Lumon inhabits not just Lumon as a world unto itself. I’m interested to see how it all ties together.
posted by eekernohan at 8:05 PM on March 7 [1 favorite]
The good though: loved the vibe. Also I like that we’re seeing the world that Lumon inhabits not just Lumon as a world unto itself. I’m interested to see how it all ties together.
posted by eekernohan at 8:05 PM on March 7 [1 favorite]
I noticed that two of the pieces of ephemera that Sissy had in her room used the unusual motto:
YOU MUST
BE CUT
TO HEAL
That line also appears in this Lumon Management Program video.
posted by mmoncur at 8:05 PM on March 7 [1 favorite]
YOU MUST
BE CUT
TO HEAL
That line also appears in this Lumon Management Program video.
posted by mmoncur at 8:05 PM on March 7 [1 favorite]
I just want the opening water shots as a screen saver.
That first aerial shot of the tiny car driving on a winding mountainside highway was right out of "The Shining".
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 8:26 PM on March 7 [4 favorites]
That first aerial shot of the tiny car driving on a winding mountainside highway was right out of "The Shining".
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 8:26 PM on March 7 [4 favorites]
Personally, I watch Severance for its vibe more than its plot.
Same. I think the vibe of this episode was immaculate. What an amazingly bleak location! And Jessica Lee Gagné's cinematography was top-notch.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 8:28 PM on March 7 [5 favorites]
Same. I think the vibe of this episode was immaculate. What an amazingly bleak location! And Jessica Lee Gagné's cinematography was top-notch.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 8:28 PM on March 7 [5 favorites]
OK, I just re-watched Harmony's talk with Hampton in front of the factory, and while it was mostly angry, she absolutely gets a misty look on her face when she talks about Kier and Imogen meeting. So I stand by my statement.
posted by grumpybear69 at 8:47 PM on March 7 [1 favorite]
posted by grumpybear69 at 8:47 PM on March 7 [1 favorite]
Inventors are recommended to keep a journal of their invention process so inventorship can be established when applying for a patent. Given that computers are weird in this world; that the invention happened a long time ago, perhaps even at the Myrtle Eagan School for Girls; that people process and ideate in different ways, I’m not sure why the paper journal causes so much incredulity. Some of those drawing look like drawings you’d submit in a patent application.
The Vulture recap argues that this episode clearly draws a line between ether/Lumon and opioids/Purdue pharma. I don’t that analogy quite fits, because the Sacklers weren’t high on their own supply and also didn’t use opioid hallucinations to start Scientology. Their evil was much lazier.
Off to go investigate ether frolics…
posted by emkelley at 9:47 PM on March 7 [6 favorites]
The Vulture recap argues that this episode clearly draws a line between ether/Lumon and opioids/Purdue pharma. I don’t that analogy quite fits, because the Sacklers weren’t high on their own supply and also didn’t use opioid hallucinations to start Scientology. Their evil was much lazier.
Off to go investigate ether frolics…
posted by emkelley at 9:47 PM on March 7 [6 favorites]
This episode was so boring even Harmony dozed through half of it with me. Overall I've found Cobel's arc this season mostly just confusing. The plot, as I now understand it:
1. Cobel is fired from Lumon, and Milchick is promoted to run the severed floor.
2. Helena offers Cobel a fig-leaf role on a do-nothing advisory council. She rejects it, and drives off for Salt Neck.
3. Cobel awakens on the road, sees her mom's breathing tube in the passenger seat and decides to drive all the way back to make an ultimatum counteroffer.
4. Helena calls Cobel's bluff by inviting her to speak with The Board directly, and Cobel wordlessly runs off.
5. Cobel retrieves her journal, which proves she invented the implant.
A sensible person would forward a copy to a lawyer with instructions to send it to journalists in the event of her demise. But also I'd probably not hide such a journal 400 miles away. I've no idea who she intends to show the journal to, as it seems extremely likely that the Board knows Jame's contributions were overstated and favors him anyways as an Eagan. Helena's choice of words ("I think you've overestimated your contributions and undercounted your blessings") seem designed to trigger Cobel's grievances and suggest Helena also knows about it. I doubt there's much the innies could do with the information, and the outies are only marginally better informed ("OTC disclosure can be found in your start paperwork.")
posted by pwnguin at 11:59 PM on March 7 [5 favorites]
1. Cobel is fired from Lumon, and Milchick is promoted to run the severed floor.
2. Helena offers Cobel a fig-leaf role on a do-nothing advisory council. She rejects it, and drives off for Salt Neck.
3. Cobel awakens on the road, sees her mom's breathing tube in the passenger seat and decides to drive all the way back to make an ultimatum counteroffer.
4. Helena calls Cobel's bluff by inviting her to speak with The Board directly, and Cobel wordlessly runs off.
5. Cobel retrieves her journal, which proves she invented the implant.
A sensible person would forward a copy to a lawyer with instructions to send it to journalists in the event of her demise. But also I'd probably not hide such a journal 400 miles away. I've no idea who she intends to show the journal to, as it seems extremely likely that the Board knows Jame's contributions were overstated and favors him anyways as an Eagan. Helena's choice of words ("I think you've overestimated your contributions and undercounted your blessings") seem designed to trigger Cobel's grievances and suggest Helena also knows about it. I doubt there's much the innies could do with the information, and the outies are only marginally better informed ("OTC disclosure can be found in your start paperwork.")
posted by pwnguin at 11:59 PM on March 7 [5 favorites]
I think Harmony did the U-turn because she had so much to lose by leaving Lumon - access to her invention, a lifetime of achievement that would suddenly seem like failure and exploitation. I took Helena's offer to speak to the board in the parking lot as basically preparing to kill her, or something similarly bad.
posted by nightcoast at 1:39 AM on March 8 [8 favorites]
posted by nightcoast at 1:39 AM on March 8 [8 favorites]
Having slept on it, this episode gives me the feel of the Stranger Things episode where 7 goes to the big city and meets her sister. Functionally, it works the same: a character you already know has their abilities expanded so that they can provide help/guidance to the hero in the future.
Up until this point, Cobel has always been the heel; the face of Lumon opposition to the team. If she is replaced as the villain, who is going to step into her shoes - the big security guy? Helena? Or will she turn back to Lumon, using reintegrated Mark as a proof of concept? The most villainous outcome I can think of is Mark on the floor where Gemma was, having the same experiences but without different innies to hide behind, and Cobel being aware of his status
posted by The River Ivel at 3:50 AM on March 8
Up until this point, Cobel has always been the heel; the face of Lumon opposition to the team. If she is replaced as the villain, who is going to step into her shoes - the big security guy? Helena? Or will she turn back to Lumon, using reintegrated Mark as a proof of concept? The most villainous outcome I can think of is Mark on the floor where Gemma was, having the same experiences but without different innies to hide behind, and Cobel being aware of his status
posted by The River Ivel at 3:50 AM on March 8
Having absorbed the episode, a lot of things make more sense - It always appeared that Cobel was a hugely eccentric manager with a strange prying relationship to her employees, but she was never a manager at all, and the Severed Floor was an opportunity for her to observer the experimental subjects she's created - I'm struck here by the image of the ant farm that Mark buys Gemma. At this point, I'm assuming she's actually responsible for recruiting Mark to Lumon, in order to observe the way he interacts with Ms Casey (and, presumably, other things we're not privy to yet), both as Mark S and Mark Scout.
It also makes more sense that a technician would go and do a bit of impromptu post-mortem brain surgery when required than a manager, and the fervency of her relationship to the question of whether reintegration is possible.
I did wonder whether she was an early self-experiment in severance - one of her characteristics seems to be conflicting dual characteristics - not only Cobel/Selvig, but also between her impassive mask and the inner cauldron of grief and rage that's constantly breaking out through it (neither of these things require severance to work, but one characteristic of real-life self-starting inventors like Cobel seems to be is their willingness to experiment on themselves).
So she seems to have believed that she came to an agreement with Lumon - Jame Eagan got the credit, but she got to continue her work. By firing her, not only did Lumon violate that agreement (which was most likely only in her imagination), but they took away her life's work and, most insultingly of all, treated her as the thing she only pretended to be - a manager - rather than the God of the Severed Floor she knew herself to be. And then gave the God status to someone who actually was a mere manager. No wonder she was so angry.
I wonder how much curiosity about the functioning of severance there would be in an organisation like Lumon. Milchick has used the OTC and the Glasgow Block (and note that each of those has been a disaster for Lumon), but there are other settings - Clean Slate, Elephant and Goldfish in particular - that someone with a bit of animus could use to cause chaos. Particularly someone who might be the only person who actually understands the system. On my third watch of this episode (because, yes, I'm in that strange, sad place), I saw Cobel as a kind of Prospero figure, but one who, rather than casting her books off, is preparing to gather them up and cause fireworks. That's the fantasy version I'm projecting into the future, until next week, when I discover that the real version is more prosaic, but actually much better than anything I could come up with. Interestingly, it does seem possible that the story could come to a happy conclusion (or at least a conclusion) in two weeks' time, but I'm expecting another cliff-hanger because that's what people do. They have, it seems, convened a writers room to develop season three. After battling through Covid in the first season and the Hollywood strikes in the second, I wonder if Stiller and co can bring us a third season against the backdrop of the collapse of the United States.
Something Severance has reminded me of quite strongly is The Prisoner - in the air of mystery and the intoxicating other-worldliness of the setting. While I expect Severance to make more sense in the long run than The Prisoner - though if, at the end of episode ten, Mark S rips a gorilla mask off Kier Eagan to find his own face laughing back at him, consider me prescient - there's a similarity in the way the last few episodes before the finale diverted hugely from the established series world - in The Prisoner's case it was three episodes set outside The Village altogether, one of which didn't even have McGoohan in it. It will be interesting to go back to the Severed Floor next week.
posted by Grangousier at 3:55 AM on March 8 [10 favorites]
It also makes more sense that a technician would go and do a bit of impromptu post-mortem brain surgery when required than a manager, and the fervency of her relationship to the question of whether reintegration is possible.
I did wonder whether she was an early self-experiment in severance - one of her characteristics seems to be conflicting dual characteristics - not only Cobel/Selvig, but also between her impassive mask and the inner cauldron of grief and rage that's constantly breaking out through it (neither of these things require severance to work, but one characteristic of real-life self-starting inventors like Cobel seems to be is their willingness to experiment on themselves).
So she seems to have believed that she came to an agreement with Lumon - Jame Eagan got the credit, but she got to continue her work. By firing her, not only did Lumon violate that agreement (which was most likely only in her imagination), but they took away her life's work and, most insultingly of all, treated her as the thing she only pretended to be - a manager - rather than the God of the Severed Floor she knew herself to be. And then gave the God status to someone who actually was a mere manager. No wonder she was so angry.
I wonder how much curiosity about the functioning of severance there would be in an organisation like Lumon. Milchick has used the OTC and the Glasgow Block (and note that each of those has been a disaster for Lumon), but there are other settings - Clean Slate, Elephant and Goldfish in particular - that someone with a bit of animus could use to cause chaos. Particularly someone who might be the only person who actually understands the system. On my third watch of this episode (because, yes, I'm in that strange, sad place), I saw Cobel as a kind of Prospero figure, but one who, rather than casting her books off, is preparing to gather them up and cause fireworks. That's the fantasy version I'm projecting into the future, until next week, when I discover that the real version is more prosaic, but actually much better than anything I could come up with. Interestingly, it does seem possible that the story could come to a happy conclusion (or at least a conclusion) in two weeks' time, but I'm expecting another cliff-hanger because that's what people do. They have, it seems, convened a writers room to develop season three. After battling through Covid in the first season and the Hollywood strikes in the second, I wonder if Stiller and co can bring us a third season against the backdrop of the collapse of the United States.
Something Severance has reminded me of quite strongly is The Prisoner - in the air of mystery and the intoxicating other-worldliness of the setting. While I expect Severance to make more sense in the long run than The Prisoner - though if, at the end of episode ten, Mark S rips a gorilla mask off Kier Eagan to find his own face laughing back at him, consider me prescient - there's a similarity in the way the last few episodes before the finale diverted hugely from the established series world - in The Prisoner's case it was three episodes set outside The Village altogether, one of which didn't even have McGoohan in it. It will be interesting to go back to the Severed Floor next week.
posted by Grangousier at 3:55 AM on March 8 [10 favorites]
Oh, and Cobel is Hadji Murat (one of the Tolstoy novels Gemma was working on) - to quote Wikipedia: "Its titular protagonist Hadji Murat is an Avar rebel commander who, to gain revenge, forges an uneasy alliance with the Russians he has been fighting."
I've been mulling the question of the villainy of the villains in Severance - most of the time what we have is complicity, characters who accept monstrous things in order to cling on in a world that actually cares nothing for them - this is certainly true of Cobel, Milchick and Natalie; Helena has to perform Helena Eagan despite the fact that she's ashamed of being Helena Eagan (I'm accepting that what she said to Mark in the tent is the only honest thing we've ever heard her say). Helena, for a long time, assumed that innies were like The Sims, until one day one of her Sims characters threatened to cut off her fingers and tried to kill her, and she's rapidly come to realise that not only are innies people, but that Helly R is a person she's jealous of. I'd like to see the argument between Helena and Helly R.
Anyway, as I'm sure most of us have experienced at some point, it's straightforward but uncomfortable to maintain complicity until something comes to a head and requires one to make a direct moral choice, and I think a lot depends on the kinds of choices each of these characters will make at that moment.
posted by Grangousier at 4:13 AM on March 8 [3 favorites]
I've been mulling the question of the villainy of the villains in Severance - most of the time what we have is complicity, characters who accept monstrous things in order to cling on in a world that actually cares nothing for them - this is certainly true of Cobel, Milchick and Natalie; Helena has to perform Helena Eagan despite the fact that she's ashamed of being Helena Eagan (I'm accepting that what she said to Mark in the tent is the only honest thing we've ever heard her say). Helena, for a long time, assumed that innies were like The Sims, until one day one of her Sims characters threatened to cut off her fingers and tried to kill her, and she's rapidly come to realise that not only are innies people, but that Helly R is a person she's jealous of. I'd like to see the argument between Helena and Helly R.
Anyway, as I'm sure most of us have experienced at some point, it's straightforward but uncomfortable to maintain complicity until something comes to a head and requires one to make a direct moral choice, and I think a lot depends on the kinds of choices each of these characters will make at that moment.
posted by Grangousier at 4:13 AM on March 8 [3 favorites]
I am also in the "this would have been stronger if it was 15 minutes shorter" camp. I don't feel like it was a waste of time. But it could have been tighter and still conveyed both the information and the vibes. This is also usually a phone-down show for me, but I actually picked up my phone to look something up, which I don't think I've ever done before while watching this.
I agree with Grangousier that a lot of pieces suddenly fall into place about Cobel with this information.
Boy, Mark was her lab rat...and he is about to be again. I also have concerns that Season 3 will have Mark as the experimental subject in the basement. I just hope that Gemma gets out. I would like her to be a main character in the 3rd season, vs. fridged.
posted by rednikki at 7:29 AM on March 8
I agree with Grangousier that a lot of pieces suddenly fall into place about Cobel with this information.
Boy, Mark was her lab rat...and he is about to be again. I also have concerns that Season 3 will have Mark as the experimental subject in the basement. I just hope that Gemma gets out. I would like her to be a main character in the 3rd season, vs. fridged.
posted by rednikki at 7:29 AM on March 8
The Prisoner is a terrific comparison. I certainly hope that Severance ends up more tightly plotted in the end!
It would be pretty awesome if a giant white balloon started chasing Mark around the severed floor, preferably coupled with sound effects from Impossible Mission.
posted by grumpybear69 at 7:30 AM on March 8 [5 favorites]
It would be pretty awesome if a giant white balloon started chasing Mark around the severed floor, preferably coupled with sound effects from Impossible Mission.
posted by grumpybear69 at 7:30 AM on March 8 [5 favorites]
i thought this was a really compelling episode but i also think cobel is the most interesting character in the show, and patricia arquette is an amazing actor, so i was happy to learn more about her after a many episode cobel deficit. it definitely was an attempt to make her sympathetic after the show initially made her the main villain. i did want to ask gemma’s question: why doesn’t she or her aunt speak like a normal person??? anyway given her age i find it at least plausible that she has had the education to invent severance. this is a kind of alternate reality so it’s not clear what kind of advances in neurobiology had happened to lay the foundation. and it’s implied that cobel was a kind of prodigy. it also changes some past moments, like when cobel was trying to tell The Board that integration is not impossible and that Petey might have integrated. presumably she understands severance as well as anyone if not better.
still no idea what cold harbor is though.
posted by dis_integration at 7:39 AM on March 8
still no idea what cold harbor is though.
posted by dis_integration at 7:39 AM on March 8
Maybe because I'm finally entirely gray haired myself, but I thought Patricia Arquette looked like an ice witch in this landscape. She seemed powerful and magical, and it makes so much more sense for her to have invented severance. Has an Eagan endured something painful or scary in the past two hundred years? Of course an eight-year-old would want to be anywhere else but stirring a vat for ten hours.
I'm not sure if Harmony wants to take down Lumon or rule it, but I feel like she genuinely cares for Mark in a way. Knowing that the inventor of severance kept putting Mark and Gemma/Ms. Casey together, what did she want to happen? How does she see innies and outies?
I desperately want a scene between Cobel and Ms. Huang. Let Ms. Huang see what her future could be if she gets that Wintertide fellowship. I wonder if Milchik was a fellow too.
I enjoyed the episode, even if it was a little slow, and it was all worth it just to get the line, "Come tame these tempers, asshole." I hope Drummond has named his fists Frolic and Malice.
posted by gladly at 11:11 AM on March 8 [4 favorites]
I'm not sure if Harmony wants to take down Lumon or rule it, but I feel like she genuinely cares for Mark in a way. Knowing that the inventor of severance kept putting Mark and Gemma/Ms. Casey together, what did she want to happen? How does she see innies and outies?
I desperately want a scene between Cobel and Ms. Huang. Let Ms. Huang see what her future could be if she gets that Wintertide fellowship. I wonder if Milchik was a fellow too.
I enjoyed the episode, even if it was a little slow, and it was all worth it just to get the line, "Come tame these tempers, asshole." I hope Drummond has named his fists Frolic and Malice.
posted by gladly at 11:11 AM on March 8 [4 favorites]
They mention in the after episode that they filmed in Newfoundland, which I suspected based on my parents' photos from years back.
posted by fiercekitten at 1:09 PM on March 8 [1 favorite]
posted by fiercekitten at 1:09 PM on March 8 [1 favorite]
lapolla: "Harmony Cobel invented Severance as an anesthesia for insufferable grief."
I don't think that is exactly right, if you mean grief over her mother's death. Insufferable pain perhaps. The way I see the order of events:
Salt's Neck was a Lumon town whose main business was the ether factory. Everyone worked there or was related to someone who does--even young children. (Harmony and Hampton being two of the children that worked there.) The treachery and drudgery of working in the factory naturally leads to addiction and a breakdown in productivity.
At some point, young Harmony is recognized for her intelligence and is sent to WinterTide and is a full-on Kier believer ('lives by the Nines'--like Sissy.)
Aside: We don't know if her mother Charlotte ever was a big believer, but we know that by the time she was sick in bed with Sissy caring for her, she no longer was. Sissy is the last remaining person living by the Nine in that town when Harmony returns during the episode.
While at Wintertide, Harmony sees what is happening to her town and what is happening to her mother and decides to figure out a way to isolate the misery through severance, separating the minds of people into 2 modes: one mode will do necessary but terrible work that Lumon wants done from the other mode, who won't know about what is being done, thus eliminating propensity toward addiction and destructive behaviors.
Harmony invents severance, documenting it in her notebook. Lumon take the idea and runs with it, leading to Harmony managing the severed floor. Harmony goes home to visit her mother to show what she is working on, and her mother keeps the notebook, proud of her daughter's success.
At some point, as her mother gets more disillusioned with Lumon, she stashes the notebook away, hiding it in the head of a Kier statue. She doesn't tell Sissy the zealot because she is dependent upon for care. Later, when Charlotte dies, Sissy stashes her things in the cellar, which unbeknownst to her includes the notebook.
posted by BeBoth at 1:38 PM on March 8 [8 favorites]
I don't think that is exactly right, if you mean grief over her mother's death. Insufferable pain perhaps. The way I see the order of events:
Salt's Neck was a Lumon town whose main business was the ether factory. Everyone worked there or was related to someone who does--even young children. (Harmony and Hampton being two of the children that worked there.) The treachery and drudgery of working in the factory naturally leads to addiction and a breakdown in productivity.
At some point, young Harmony is recognized for her intelligence and is sent to WinterTide and is a full-on Kier believer ('lives by the Nines'--like Sissy.)
Aside: We don't know if her mother Charlotte ever was a big believer, but we know that by the time she was sick in bed with Sissy caring for her, she no longer was. Sissy is the last remaining person living by the Nine in that town when Harmony returns during the episode.
While at Wintertide, Harmony sees what is happening to her town and what is happening to her mother and decides to figure out a way to isolate the misery through severance, separating the minds of people into 2 modes: one mode will do necessary but terrible work that Lumon wants done from the other mode, who won't know about what is being done, thus eliminating propensity toward addiction and destructive behaviors.
Harmony invents severance, documenting it in her notebook. Lumon take the idea and runs with it, leading to Harmony managing the severed floor. Harmony goes home to visit her mother to show what she is working on, and her mother keeps the notebook, proud of her daughter's success.
At some point, as her mother gets more disillusioned with Lumon, she stashes the notebook away, hiding it in the head of a Kier statue. She doesn't tell Sissy the zealot because she is dependent upon for care. Later, when Charlotte dies, Sissy stashes her things in the cellar, which unbeknownst to her includes the notebook.
posted by BeBoth at 1:38 PM on March 8 [8 favorites]
I'm surprised everyone thought it was a long episode; it clocked in at a little over a half hour.
But that may go into why everyone thinks it's a middling episode, if it felt twice as long.
posted by AzraelBrown at 7:04 PM on March 8
But that may go into why everyone thinks it's a middling episode, if it felt twice as long.
posted by AzraelBrown at 7:04 PM on March 8
I'm realizing what this season reminds me of is when they tried to bring back Arrested Development but couldn't get most of the actors in a room together and also awkwardly untangled each character's story so it lost all the fun and momentum and suspense you get from bouncing between simultaneous events in a single episode.
posted by davejh at 8:03 PM on March 8
posted by davejh at 8:03 PM on March 8
Incredibly weak episode in an increasingly weak season. The show seems to be coming apart, it's quite disappointing. I'm worried the show won't so much crash and burn as just peter out into muddled confusion.
Lately the show has felt like it's just moving pieces around and making sure the right exposition gets spoken. Devon's declaration that she was calling Cobel last episode was utterly baffling with only the thinnest of justifications. The revelation in this episode that Cobel invented severance makes zero fucking sense in terms of what we've seen so far. It all feels, as someone wrote above, stapled together, the characters not really being themselves anymore but tools to move the story along.
And while this episode had some gorgeous shots and great acting, it felt like it was cobbled together from ideas about what an Important Episode of Prestige TV should be rather than actually being one. Everything rang weirdly hollow.
posted by star gentle uterus at 8:12 PM on March 8 [6 favorites]
Lately the show has felt like it's just moving pieces around and making sure the right exposition gets spoken. Devon's declaration that she was calling Cobel last episode was utterly baffling with only the thinnest of justifications. The revelation in this episode that Cobel invented severance makes zero fucking sense in terms of what we've seen so far. It all feels, as someone wrote above, stapled together, the characters not really being themselves anymore but tools to move the story along.
And while this episode had some gorgeous shots and great acting, it felt like it was cobbled together from ideas about what an Important Episode of Prestige TV should be rather than actually being one. Everything rang weirdly hollow.
posted by star gentle uterus at 8:12 PM on March 8 [6 favorites]
I'm surprised everyone thought it was a long episode; it clocked in at a little over a half hour.
Right, it felt like a slow episode rather than a long one. I sorta feel like they could have cut 5-10 more minutes off of this already-short episode, and given us a bit of what was happening 'back home', bringing it up to normal length, and everyone would have been happier.
Anyhow, yeah, I don't really wanna admit it, but there's been a few episodes this season that have really pulled me out of the narrative. This was one of them, MDE's field trip was the other. In one of the podcasts, they mention how in the original pilot, Harmony Cobel was the one who 'recruited' Mark, in a bit of a magical bizarre way that wouldn't have made sense in the show as we now know it, but part of me wonders if they sorta held onto the details around that notion and dropped it (her inventing severance) onto our laps this episode, despite us not having the context required for that to make much sense.
posted by destructive cactus at 8:40 PM on March 8 [3 favorites]
Right, it felt like a slow episode rather than a long one. I sorta feel like they could have cut 5-10 more minutes off of this already-short episode, and given us a bit of what was happening 'back home', bringing it up to normal length, and everyone would have been happier.
Anyhow, yeah, I don't really wanna admit it, but there's been a few episodes this season that have really pulled me out of the narrative. This was one of them, MDE's field trip was the other. In one of the podcasts, they mention how in the original pilot, Harmony Cobel was the one who 'recruited' Mark, in a bit of a magical bizarre way that wouldn't have made sense in the show as we now know it, but part of me wonders if they sorta held onto the details around that notion and dropped it (her inventing severance) onto our laps this episode, despite us not having the context required for that to make much sense.
posted by destructive cactus at 8:40 PM on March 8 [3 favorites]
she absolutely gets a misty look on her face when she talks about Kier and Imogen meeting. So I stand by my statement.
grumpybear69, having rewatched, I agree with you and retract my statement!
and, related to that, I would add to this, Grangousier
dual characteristics - not only Cobel/Selvig, but also between her impassive mask and the inner cauldron of grief and rage that's constantly breaking out through it
...Cobel's worshipful adherence to the Kier cult versus her hatred of Kier/Lumon and (probable) plan to tear it down. As I said here, I'm really not sure how to square all this. (The pointer about Hadji Murat is super interesting, though!)
posted by torticat at 8:42 PM on March 8 [1 favorite]
grumpybear69, having rewatched, I agree with you and retract my statement!
and, related to that, I would add to this, Grangousier
dual characteristics - not only Cobel/Selvig, but also between her impassive mask and the inner cauldron of grief and rage that's constantly breaking out through it
...Cobel's worshipful adherence to the Kier cult versus her hatred of Kier/Lumon and (probable) plan to tear it down. As I said here, I'm really not sure how to square all this. (The pointer about Hadji Murat is super interesting, though!)
posted by torticat at 8:42 PM on March 8 [1 favorite]
No one hates a cult more than a disillusioned former true believer.
posted by Saxon Kane at 9:08 PM on March 8 [8 favorites]
posted by Saxon Kane at 9:08 PM on March 8 [8 favorites]
I enjoyed this episode -- I found a slow-moving vignette focused on one side character to be a welcome change of pace from last week's intense, long, and complex episode. I like it when shows switch things up like this.
posted by confluency at 1:27 AM on March 9 [8 favorites]
posted by confluency at 1:27 AM on March 9 [8 favorites]
There are also people who fervently disavow the Church of Scientology while still being practising Scientologists.
posted by Grangousier at 4:26 AM on March 9 [2 favorites]
posted by Grangousier at 4:26 AM on March 9 [2 favorites]
I just want the opening water shots as a screen saver.
I noticed after upgrading my Mac Mini to the latest OS, one of the included screensavers is a long tracking shot of a Nordic fjord. Deep marketing or lucky coincidence 🤔
posted by funkaspuck at 4:42 AM on March 9 [1 favorite]
I noticed after upgrading my Mac Mini to the latest OS, one of the included screensavers is a long tracking shot of a Nordic fjord. Deep marketing or lucky coincidence 🤔
posted by funkaspuck at 4:42 AM on March 9 [1 favorite]
Now I’m starting to think that at some point we almost have to see Helly/Helena reintegrate. The real question is when/how.
posted by Cogito at 8:00 AM on March 9 [3 favorites]
posted by Cogito at 8:00 AM on March 9 [3 favorites]
No one hates a cult more than a disillusioned former true believer.
Ya but the point was, she was still acting like a true believer after she got to Salt's Neck (misting up over Kier & Imogen stirring the vats no less) even after she'd seen the destruction & addiction in the town, a situation that clearly enraged her, on top of her own betrayal at the hands of Lumon. What to make of that?
posted by torticat at 11:12 AM on March 9
Ya but the point was, she was still acting like a true believer after she got to Salt's Neck (misting up over Kier & Imogen stirring the vats no less) even after she'd seen the destruction & addiction in the town, a situation that clearly enraged her, on top of her own betrayal at the hands of Lumon. What to make of that?
posted by torticat at 11:12 AM on March 9
There are also people who fervently disavow the Church of Scientology while still being practising Scientologists.
And perhaps more relevantly, the Lutheran Church was already name checked this season. Famously founded by protesting against the corrupting force of monied interests trying to buy their way into heaven, Martin Luther didn't exactly become an atheist after the Vactican fired him.
posted by pwnguin at 1:34 PM on March 9 [1 favorite]
And perhaps more relevantly, the Lutheran Church was already name checked this season. Famously founded by protesting against the corrupting force of monied interests trying to buy their way into heaven, Martin Luther didn't exactly become an atheist after the Vactican fired him.
posted by pwnguin at 1:34 PM on March 9 [1 favorite]
What to make of that?
It takes more than an afternoon to get over nearly a lifetime of programming. And being angry at Lumon is an entirely different thing than disavowing one's religion.
Anyway, I liked the slow burn of this episode- very much like the first few episodes of season 1. And very dreamlike but also viscerally harrowing in a Lynchian way. I thought it was a great way to show and not tell of the destruction wrought by the corporation on a small town. The boredom and tedium of living in such a remote place to begin with, and why Lumon showing up and building a factory would seem almost magical. The trauma when the corporation not only abuses the workforce- including children- but then takes some of those children away from their parents. The devastation when the environment is wrecked and the people all addicts, or dead.
Cobel hasn't been home in years. She's pissed off at her treatment by the board, but now for the first time since she was a child, she realizes that the town that was presumably thriving when she left the first time is in utter ruin.
Devon's declaration that she was calling Cobel last episode was utterly baffling with only the thinnest of justifications.
Her brother was dying in front of her, and Reghabi was being evasive and prickly. Devon spent a bunch of time with Mrs Selvig being helpful and nurturing- more than she's ever spent with her being a crazy Lumon boss. I'm sure she understands intellectually that Selvig/Cobel is not a good person, but Devon is viscerally familiar with her as a helpful one. And there is no no else to turn to in a crisis that knows anything about Mark's situation. Milchick? Natalie? Who else is there?
The revelation in this episode that Cobel invented severance makes zero fucking sense in terms of what we've seen so far.
We know Cobel went to the Myrtle Eagan School for girls; we know she had multiple awards and ribbons on her Kier shrine; we know she felt like she had given more to the company than they acknowledged; we know she felt she was entitled to overseeing the severed floor; we know she felt deeply wronged by being fired, and then offered a job in an advisory position.
Cobel, S2, episode 3: "Mark S. is so close to completing Cold Harbor. I intend to finish the work that I started. Which is why Milchick must go. He's not equipped for the task. I must be floor manager."
"Everything I accomplished, I earned. Through dedication, and industry. Not because I was born into it."
In this episode we finally understand why she felt that way.
posted by oneirodynia at 4:04 PM on March 9 [19 favorites]
It takes more than an afternoon to get over nearly a lifetime of programming. And being angry at Lumon is an entirely different thing than disavowing one's religion.
Anyway, I liked the slow burn of this episode- very much like the first few episodes of season 1. And very dreamlike but also viscerally harrowing in a Lynchian way. I thought it was a great way to show and not tell of the destruction wrought by the corporation on a small town. The boredom and tedium of living in such a remote place to begin with, and why Lumon showing up and building a factory would seem almost magical. The trauma when the corporation not only abuses the workforce- including children- but then takes some of those children away from their parents. The devastation when the environment is wrecked and the people all addicts, or dead.
Cobel hasn't been home in years. She's pissed off at her treatment by the board, but now for the first time since she was a child, she realizes that the town that was presumably thriving when she left the first time is in utter ruin.
Devon's declaration that she was calling Cobel last episode was utterly baffling with only the thinnest of justifications.
Her brother was dying in front of her, and Reghabi was being evasive and prickly. Devon spent a bunch of time with Mrs Selvig being helpful and nurturing- more than she's ever spent with her being a crazy Lumon boss. I'm sure she understands intellectually that Selvig/Cobel is not a good person, but Devon is viscerally familiar with her as a helpful one. And there is no no else to turn to in a crisis that knows anything about Mark's situation. Milchick? Natalie? Who else is there?
The revelation in this episode that Cobel invented severance makes zero fucking sense in terms of what we've seen so far.
We know Cobel went to the Myrtle Eagan School for girls; we know she had multiple awards and ribbons on her Kier shrine; we know she felt like she had given more to the company than they acknowledged; we know she felt she was entitled to overseeing the severed floor; we know she felt deeply wronged by being fired, and then offered a job in an advisory position.
Cobel, S2, episode 3: "Mark S. is so close to completing Cold Harbor. I intend to finish the work that I started. Which is why Milchick must go. He's not equipped for the task. I must be floor manager."
"Everything I accomplished, I earned. Through dedication, and industry. Not because I was born into it."
In this episode we finally understand why she felt that way.
posted by oneirodynia at 4:04 PM on March 9 [19 favorites]
I'm with you, oneirodynia. I need to do a rewatch of this one because I was sleepy when I watched it, but I've been seeing people react to some of these plot points with some bafflement.
Why couldn't Cobel be the one to invent severance? Why would anyone else be more likely? And why wouldn't she write her ideas in a notebook? (???)
Why wouldn't Devon call Cobel? She's literally the only person she knows how to contact who also knows anything she wants to know. She doesn't have to trust her to think it's possible she could get some useful information out of her, and she's desperate. And even though she knows Selvig was a fraud, she didn't see Cobel's icy cruelty like we did.
I think it's also easy for us the viewers to forget how little time has passed for the characters. When Helena saw Mark at the Chinese restaurant, she referred to the OTC incident as "the other day." I don't think we know precisely, but two weeks seems like an outside estimate, with a lot of things having occurred in that time, and also Devon has a newborn baby. Doesn't leave much chance to absorb all this new information and calmly think things through.
posted by lampoil at 5:58 PM on March 9 [5 favorites]
Why couldn't Cobel be the one to invent severance? Why would anyone else be more likely? And why wouldn't she write her ideas in a notebook? (???)
Why wouldn't Devon call Cobel? She's literally the only person she knows how to contact who also knows anything she wants to know. She doesn't have to trust her to think it's possible she could get some useful information out of her, and she's desperate. And even though she knows Selvig was a fraud, she didn't see Cobel's icy cruelty like we did.
I think it's also easy for us the viewers to forget how little time has passed for the characters. When Helena saw Mark at the Chinese restaurant, she referred to the OTC incident as "the other day." I don't think we know precisely, but two weeks seems like an outside estimate, with a lot of things having occurred in that time, and also Devon has a newborn baby. Doesn't leave much chance to absorb all this new information and calmly think things through.
posted by lampoil at 5:58 PM on March 9 [5 favorites]
also Devon has a newborn baby
Haha, I totally spaced this- baby brain is totally a contributing factor. Nice catch.
posted by oneirodynia at 6:36 PM on March 9 [1 favorite]
Haha, I totally spaced this- baby brain is totally a contributing factor. Nice catch.
posted by oneirodynia at 6:36 PM on March 9 [1 favorite]
Devon's full name (on IMDB) is Devon Scout-Hale. Interesting that Cobel saw through that, though, and dropped the Hale.
Or did Cobel know Devon before she was married to Ricken?
posted by greatgefilte at 8:08 PM on March 9
Or did Cobel know Devon before she was married to Ricken?
posted by greatgefilte at 8:08 PM on March 9
that seems very unlikely, given that the reason she knows Devon seems to be that Devon needed baby assistance
posted by DoctorFedora at 8:29 PM on March 9
posted by DoctorFedora at 8:29 PM on March 9
I'm struck here by the image of the ant farm
Or - and this only struck me yesterday - lab rats in what it literally a maze.
posted by Grangousier at 5:42 AM on March 10
Or - and this only struck me yesterday - lab rats in what it literally a maze.
posted by Grangousier at 5:42 AM on March 10
I name people in my contact list by how I want to associate them and how I expect the phone to "helpfully" abbreviates the name, and not their strict name -- if I wanted to remember Devon was Mark's sister when she comes up in caller ID, I'd focus on the "Scout" part.
posted by AzraelBrown at 7:23 AM on March 10
posted by AzraelBrown at 7:23 AM on March 10
Unless Devon is also severed, which I have wondered about previously.
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 8:09 AM on March 10
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 8:09 AM on March 10
Really? Why? The camera hasn’t ever lied to us, and Devon hasn’t shown any severed-curious or severed-favoring behaviors that I can recall. She’s been firmly skeptical and horrified.
posted by janell at 3:44 PM on March 10 [5 favorites]
posted by janell at 3:44 PM on March 10 [5 favorites]
Harmony goes home to visit her mother to show what she is working on, and her mother keeps the notebook, proud of her daughter's success.
At some point, as her mother gets more disillusioned with Lumon, she stashes the notebook away, hiding it in the head of a Kier statue. She doesn't tell Sissy the zealot because she is dependent upon for care. Later, when Charlotte dies, Sissy stashes her things in the cellar, which unbeknownst to her includes the notebook.
I think this part is close, but still a little off. Harmony surely hid the notebook in the statue herself (which was among various possessions she'd left in her childhood bedroom, and one of the few that Sissy didn't "sell to the poor," instead having moved it to that storage cellar).
And her hiding the notebook herself has dramatic weight because it really does represent a small early betrayal of the church. Lumon wanted to pretend its scion was severance's inventor; Harmony goes along with it -- out of duty and/or religiosity -- but keeps this notebook hidden away as prideful proof of her true role, of what the church was taking from her.
posted by nobody at 5:24 PM on March 10 [6 favorites]
At some point, as her mother gets more disillusioned with Lumon, she stashes the notebook away, hiding it in the head of a Kier statue. She doesn't tell Sissy the zealot because she is dependent upon for care. Later, when Charlotte dies, Sissy stashes her things in the cellar, which unbeknownst to her includes the notebook.
I think this part is close, but still a little off. Harmony surely hid the notebook in the statue herself (which was among various possessions she'd left in her childhood bedroom, and one of the few that Sissy didn't "sell to the poor," instead having moved it to that storage cellar).
And her hiding the notebook herself has dramatic weight because it really does represent a small early betrayal of the church. Lumon wanted to pretend its scion was severance's inventor; Harmony goes along with it -- out of duty and/or religiosity -- but keeps this notebook hidden away as prideful proof of her true role, of what the church was taking from her.
posted by nobody at 5:24 PM on March 10 [6 favorites]
Really? Why? The camera hasn’t ever lied to us, and Devon hasn’t shown any severed-curious or severed-favoring behaviors that I can recall. She’s been firmly skeptical and horrified.
It's a stretch, not a hill I'd die on. I think for this to be so, we'd be dealing (on camera at least) with Devon 'innie' and there's an 'outie' equivalent we just haven't see yet.
Just musing...
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 5:38 PM on March 10
It's a stretch, not a hill I'd die on. I think for this to be so, we'd be dealing (on camera at least) with Devon 'innie' and there's an 'outie' equivalent we just haven't see yet.
Just musing...
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 5:38 PM on March 10
It's a stretch, not a hill I'd die on. I think for this to be so, we'd be dealing (on camera at least) with Devon 'innie' and there's an 'outie' equivalent we just haven't see yet.
Unless this happened when Mark and Devon were *really* young -- like, before-they-had-their-beds-replaced young -- Mark would have noticed an abrupt and near-total personality change in his sister.
posted by tzikeh at 10:15 PM on March 10
Unless this happened when Mark and Devon were *really* young -- like, before-they-had-their-beds-replaced young -- Mark would have noticed an abrupt and near-total personality change in his sister.
posted by tzikeh at 10:15 PM on March 10
We've been given everything we need to know Harmony Cobel's deal. All the pending questions about her have been answered.
And yet we have no idea what she's gonna try next. Get the floor back and finish Cold Harbor? Burn everything down? Demand an equitable technology transfer agreement?
Don't let the vibecentricity of this ep distract you. It's a nifty tightrope walk that you only get through good writing.
posted by whuppy at 7:07 PM on March 11 [11 favorites]
And yet we have no idea what she's gonna try next. Get the floor back and finish Cold Harbor? Burn everything down? Demand an equitable technology transfer agreement?
Don't let the vibecentricity of this ep distract you. It's a nifty tightrope walk that you only get through good writing.
posted by whuppy at 7:07 PM on March 11 [11 favorites]
I loved the location. Stars descend on Newfoundland for filming of Apple TV+'s Severance
posted by Nelson at 8:09 AM on March 12 [1 favorite]
posted by Nelson at 8:09 AM on March 12 [1 favorite]
I think everyone is missing the most important fact we learned this episode: Harmony was a member of the Goat Husbandry club in high school. And the field hockey captain.
posted by cooker girl at 9:27 AM on March 13 [4 favorites]
posted by cooker girl at 9:27 AM on March 13 [4 favorites]
So when shit gets real, she starts laying about her with a hockey stick?
Could be bloody...
posted by Grangousier at 10:14 AM on March 13 [2 favorites]
Could be bloody...
posted by Grangousier at 10:14 AM on March 13 [2 favorites]
"Chicklets" Cobel.
posted by whuppy at 12:10 PM on March 13 [1 favorite]
posted by whuppy at 12:10 PM on March 13 [1 favorite]
Some really striking things on rewatch:
Remember the theories a few episodes ago that Cobel turning around and heading back to Lumon was because she had reached a severance barrier? No; I think she went back to test her wavering faith in Keir. If I prove again that I am loyal, will Kier reward me with gratitude? And the vibe she got was very much no, they will continue to harm and exploit me.
I feel the episode deliberately leaves unspoken how long Harmony's mother was sick, and why. Was she injured by Lumon, as so much of the town was? Hampton's joke about Imogene "hacking up a lung" feels suggestive here.
Not sure how I feel about the revelation that Harmony invented severance, but: the visual metaphor of her reclaiming her stolen ideas from inside Jame's head was pretty good.
And to pull a comment from way way above:
I guess she's had a wild life, huffing ether as a child worker at 8 years old, inventing a remote controlled brain implant somewhere along the way, then managing 4-6 people in what we now know is just one of the many severed locations in the world.
I mean, sure, but also no: she was managing the flagship severed floor at Lumon HQ and presumably with full knowledge of the really creepy R&D occurring in the basement. One of many locations, yeah, but the show is very clear that this is the most important one.
(Although this does raise a question: we know from the start of the season that other severed locations have MDR departments; so ... what are they refining? Is there a torture basement at every location?)
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 12:11 PM on March 13 [5 favorites]
- Sissy's speech is so colored with religiosity: so much "my child" and high-minded talking about gratitude, belief, solace.
- Harmony is dressed in blacks and greys, grey hair. Sissy is dressed in all white -- not an easy look to maintain in that environment, you'd think?; white hair.
- Sissy's white turtleneck : a priest's white collar.
Remember the theories a few episodes ago that Cobel turning around and heading back to Lumon was because she had reached a severance barrier? No; I think she went back to test her wavering faith in Keir. If I prove again that I am loyal, will Kier reward me with gratitude? And the vibe she got was very much no, they will continue to harm and exploit me.
I feel the episode deliberately leaves unspoken how long Harmony's mother was sick, and why. Was she injured by Lumon, as so much of the town was? Hampton's joke about Imogene "hacking up a lung" feels suggestive here.
Not sure how I feel about the revelation that Harmony invented severance, but: the visual metaphor of her reclaiming her stolen ideas from inside Jame's head was pretty good.
And to pull a comment from way way above:
I guess she's had a wild life, huffing ether as a child worker at 8 years old, inventing a remote controlled brain implant somewhere along the way, then managing 4-6 people in what we now know is just one of the many severed locations in the world.
I mean, sure, but also no: she was managing the flagship severed floor at Lumon HQ and presumably with full knowledge of the really creepy R&D occurring in the basement. One of many locations, yeah, but the show is very clear that this is the most important one.
(Although this does raise a question: we know from the start of the season that other severed locations have MDR departments; so ... what are they refining? Is there a torture basement at every location?)
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 12:11 PM on March 13 [5 favorites]
we know from the start of the season that other severed locations have MDR departments; so ...
Do we know that? There's a few other locations, because the 3 other team members at the beginning came from different places. And we're *told* there are more, but not by reliable narrators. Otherwise, we'd have to believe that MDR has pouches.
posted by nat at 5:03 PM on March 13 [2 favorites]
Do we know that? There's a few other locations, because the 3 other team members at the beginning came from different places. And we're *told* there are more, but not by reliable narrators. Otherwise, we'd have to believe that MDR has pouches.
posted by nat at 5:03 PM on March 13 [2 favorites]
Not sure how I feel about the revelation that Harmony invented severance, but: the visual metaphor of her reclaiming her stolen ideas from inside Jame's head was pretty good.
Ha, nice catch! I hadn't thought about that.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 6:00 PM on March 13
Ha, nice catch! I hadn't thought about that.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 6:00 PM on March 13
And we're *told* there are more, but not by reliable narrators
We're told by the 'new' team members, sure - but there's also a management discussion between Hellie, Brother Beefcake, and (Milkshake, IIRC?) about putting that team together. That discussion aligned with the story as told
posted by coriolisdave at 6:11 PM on March 13
We're told by the 'new' team members, sure - but there's also a management discussion between Hellie, Brother Beefcake, and (Milkshake, IIRC?) about putting that team together. That discussion aligned with the story as told
posted by coriolisdave at 6:11 PM on March 13
Hell, I can't figure out why Devon would even be married to Ricken, let alone have his baby.
We got a hint last episode when she was talking about how Ricken took her up frickin' Mount Everest. I think she probably married a cool and adventurous ourdoorsy dude who was maybe kinda ditsy but a good guy. But then he followed his ditsy muse to becoming the Ricken we know and innies love.
posted by straight at 11:04 PM on March 15 [5 favorites]
We got a hint last episode when she was talking about how Ricken took her up frickin' Mount Everest. I think she probably married a cool and adventurous ourdoorsy dude who was maybe kinda ditsy but a good guy. But then he followed his ditsy muse to becoming the Ricken we know and innies love.
posted by straight at 11:04 PM on March 15 [5 favorites]
You are not logged in, either login or create an account to post comments
I'm glad she didn't succeed.
posted by meese at 6:48 PM on March 6 [17 favorites]