Adventure Time: Ocarina
July 18, 2014 8:59 AM - Season 6, Episode 12 - Subscribe
Jake's bad parenting catches up to him when his son Kim Khil Whan gets the deed to the treehouse and turns it into a tenement.
I think the word for the "underlying sadness" you've identified is Sehnsucht, a deep sense of yearning and incompleteness. To me, that Sehnsucht is the secret of life and the human condition coming through, and I think it's important for children's media to convey that. Stories are ways to teach, and it's probably more important for children's media to be educational than grown-up media. Granted, not everything should be as explicitly instructional as Adventures from the Book of Virtues or VeggieTales, but having something that treats feelings and other parts of living seriously is a good thing.
If you want to watch something completely unserious, I recommend Teen Titans Go!, but if you want a cartoon with enough depth for there to be serious discussion on MetaFilter, you should watch Adventure Time or The Legend of Korra. This isn't to say that Teen Titans Go! is bad, just that it's completely irreverent and totally hilarious. I've heard it described (on 4chan) as It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia for children.
posted by Small Dollar at 8:45 PM on July 18, 2014 [5 favorites]
If you want to watch something completely unserious, I recommend Teen Titans Go!, but if you want a cartoon with enough depth for there to be serious discussion on MetaFilter, you should watch Adventure Time or The Legend of Korra. This isn't to say that Teen Titans Go! is bad, just that it's completely irreverent and totally hilarious. I've heard it described (on 4chan) as It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia for children.
posted by Small Dollar at 8:45 PM on July 18, 2014 [5 favorites]
I haven't seen the episodes where Jake has kids, so that was a complete surprise to me.
posted by Catblack at 10:32 PM on July 18, 2014
posted by Catblack at 10:32 PM on July 18, 2014
ob1quixote: Anyway, I still like Adventure Time, I just miss the adventures.
Maybe you'll enjoy Gravity Falls? It has Kristen Schaal (Louise from Bob's Burgers) as one of the main characters, there's some adventuring, mysteries and goofy fun. It's not currently airing, but the second season is starting in two weeks. Here's a 2 minute short promo episode which might give you a rough idea of the style & tone.
posted by bjrn at 5:43 AM on July 19, 2014
Maybe you'll enjoy Gravity Falls? It has Kristen Schaal (Louise from Bob's Burgers) as one of the main characters, there's some adventuring, mysteries and goofy fun. It's not currently airing, but the second season is starting in two weeks. Here's a 2 minute short promo episode which might give you a rough idea of the style & tone.
posted by bjrn at 5:43 AM on July 19, 2014
Adventure Time is doing a great job of playing around with storytelling. I can't think of any other "kids" show where you found out that other people may not have positive opinions of a main character.
posted by drezdn at 11:20 AM on July 19, 2014 [3 favorites]
posted by drezdn at 11:20 AM on July 19, 2014 [3 favorites]
And there isn't really a good guy or a bad guy here. Politically, I pretty much side with Jake's philosophy (which I was stunned to see illustrated on a kids' show!); but on the other hand, Jake's relationship with his children is not too dissimilar from the one Finn's dad has with Finn. The circumstances are different -- Jake didn't abandon his kids as infants -- but it's not hard to see why Jake's son would be hurt enough to seek revenge.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 8:28 PM on July 19, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by kittens for breakfast at 8:28 PM on July 19, 2014 [2 favorites]
(I realize this isn't the in-story explanation for Kim Kil Whan's behavior, but I get the sense he may be a bit out of touch with his emotions...)
posted by kittens for breakfast at 8:45 PM on July 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by kittens for breakfast at 8:45 PM on July 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
And there isn't really a good guy or a bad guy here. Politically, I pretty much side with Jake's philosophy (which I was stunned to see illustrated on a kids' show!); but on the other hand, Jake's relationship with his children is not too dissimilar from the one Finn's dad has with Finn. The circumstances are different -- Jake didn't abandon his kids as infants -- but it's not hard to see why Jake's son would be hurt enough to seek revenge.
Yowch, I hadn't considered that angle, but I don't think it's necessary a bad one. The difference seems to be that Finn's father doesn't want anything to do with his children because he just doesn't seem to care. Erstwhile, Jake loves his kids, but he just gets sidetracked by his adventures with Finn.
In truth, Jake is a pretty terrible father. He's in the category of not really being mature enough to be a father, he's not ready to "settle down" and be responsible. It really kind of sad that Lady Rainicorn has generally been a single mom who has been making excuses for her husband the entire time or just putting up with Jake's behavior. Even when Jake tries to make a conciliatory gesture, making an ocarina, it's very reflective of his parenting. He has intent and affection enough to make something for someone he cares for, but it's just an illusion. It isn't hollow. That's Jake, he's a father who wants to love his family, and occasionally takes steps to show this, but in the end, he's not hollow inside, and off he goes living the life he lived before the kids were born.
I wonder if this is intentional on the creatives of Adventure Time or just how it can be interpreted.
As an aside, Jake's son apparently has no problem creating slum housing (35+ "units"?!) by trying to jam as many people as he can into the tree house.
I do love how the show is always ready to nod back to previous events, such as Finn and Jake spending all their money. That decision contrasted against Kim Kil Whan's prudent business sense again seems to hold up how terrible a decision it was to run off and spend all the treasure.
Anyway, I still like Adventure Time, I just miss the adventures. I watch cartoons to get away from the "real thick chowder" of my life.
I dunno, last week's episode wasn't off this mark, but I get what you're saying.
posted by Atreides at 12:17 PM on July 20, 2014 [3 favorites]
Yowch, I hadn't considered that angle, but I don't think it's necessary a bad one. The difference seems to be that Finn's father doesn't want anything to do with his children because he just doesn't seem to care. Erstwhile, Jake loves his kids, but he just gets sidetracked by his adventures with Finn.
In truth, Jake is a pretty terrible father. He's in the category of not really being mature enough to be a father, he's not ready to "settle down" and be responsible. It really kind of sad that Lady Rainicorn has generally been a single mom who has been making excuses for her husband the entire time or just putting up with Jake's behavior. Even when Jake tries to make a conciliatory gesture, making an ocarina, it's very reflective of his parenting. He has intent and affection enough to make something for someone he cares for, but it's just an illusion. It isn't hollow. That's Jake, he's a father who wants to love his family, and occasionally takes steps to show this, but in the end, he's not hollow inside, and off he goes living the life he lived before the kids were born.
I wonder if this is intentional on the creatives of Adventure Time or just how it can be interpreted.
As an aside, Jake's son apparently has no problem creating slum housing (35+ "units"?!) by trying to jam as many people as he can into the tree house.
I do love how the show is always ready to nod back to previous events, such as Finn and Jake spending all their money. That decision contrasted against Kim Kil Whan's prudent business sense again seems to hold up how terrible a decision it was to run off and spend all the treasure.
Anyway, I still like Adventure Time, I just miss the adventures. I watch cartoons to get away from the "real thick chowder" of my life.
I dunno, last week's episode wasn't off this mark, but I get what you're saying.
posted by Atreides at 12:17 PM on July 20, 2014 [3 favorites]
That was a surprisingly good explanation from Jake of motivation behind many laws!
In truth, Jake is a pretty terrible father. He's in the category of not really being mature enough to be a father, he's not ready to "settle down" and be responsible. It really kind of sad that Lady Rainicorn has generally been a single mom who has been making excuses for her husband the entire time or just putting up with Jake's behavior.
Jake was all ready to give up his adventuring life. In a previous episode, he moved out of the treehouse, told Finn and BMO he wouldn't be able to hang out, and prepared to be a father, even though he didn't have any idea what that was. However, his kids matured at a Rainicorn rate and were all in their "twenties" by the time he showed up at Lady's house, IIRC.
That said, he is the epitome of irresponsibility as has been demonstrated many times (Power Animal, the one where he loses his powers for eating a witch's donut), and I'm not surprised that he's neglected the maintenance of relationships with his adult children.
posted by ignignokt at 6:26 AM on July 22, 2014 [1 favorite]
In truth, Jake is a pretty terrible father. He's in the category of not really being mature enough to be a father, he's not ready to "settle down" and be responsible. It really kind of sad that Lady Rainicorn has generally been a single mom who has been making excuses for her husband the entire time or just putting up with Jake's behavior.
Jake was all ready to give up his adventuring life. In a previous episode, he moved out of the treehouse, told Finn and BMO he wouldn't be able to hang out, and prepared to be a father, even though he didn't have any idea what that was. However, his kids matured at a Rainicorn rate and were all in their "twenties" by the time he showed up at Lady's house, IIRC.
That said, he is the epitome of irresponsibility as has been demonstrated many times (Power Animal, the one where he loses his powers for eating a witch's donut), and I'm not surprised that he's neglected the maintenance of relationships with his adult children.
posted by ignignokt at 6:26 AM on July 22, 2014 [1 favorite]
Jake was all ready to give up his adventuring life. In a previous episode, he moved out of the treehouse, told Finn and BMO he wouldn't be able to hang out, and prepared to be a father, even though he didn't have any idea what that was. However, his kids matured at a Rainicorn rate and were all in their "twenties" by the time he showed up at Lady's house, IIRC.
Were they full grown by the end of that episode? I know when he moves in, they're still basically toddlers, and from there, it's a night of hell of Jake freaking out about their safety (FOXES) and everything. Was Jake basically given an out due to the age out?
posted by Atreides at 7:53 AM on July 22, 2014
Were they full grown by the end of that episode? I know when he moves in, they're still basically toddlers, and from there, it's a night of hell of Jake freaking out about their safety (FOXES) and everything. Was Jake basically given an out due to the age out?
posted by Atreides at 7:53 AM on July 22, 2014
Come to think of it, I may be conflating two episodes. There's definitely one where he's all ready to father, then they're all grown up. I'll look it up when I get some time.
posted by ignignokt at 8:34 AM on July 22, 2014
posted by ignignokt at 8:34 AM on July 22, 2014
In Jake the Dad, Jake spends six months or so raising the kids (and accidentally convinces the foxes that babies taste good), and then returns to the tree house talking about how quickly they had grown up (Kim Kil Whan had already grown a beard).
posted by drezdn at 8:41 AM on July 22, 2014
posted by drezdn at 8:41 AM on July 22, 2014
I think it's all one episode, Jake the Dad, as drezdn mentioned, but it's not six months, just overnight, but the kids basically grow up within a 24 hour period to the point where Jake isn't needed to be around anymore.
So...I will shift my focus to ignignokt's perspective, he just sucks at maintaining a good relationship with his adult children.
posted by Atreides at 9:46 AM on July 22, 2014
So...I will shift my focus to ignignokt's perspective, he just sucks at maintaining a good relationship with his adult children.
posted by Atreides at 9:46 AM on July 22, 2014
frankly i was surprised by how "responsible" Kim Kil Whan was compared to Jake. I suppose in shows like this it's easy for me to interpret it with a sense of essentialism - Banana Guards are like this, princesses are like this, MO Factory guards are like this - and assume that Jake's pups are like him. His daughter certainly seemed to be cut of the same cloth in the episode about the heist.
Buuuuuuuuut that responsibility is just a sham! Why is the fox paying rent to live in a tree when it was happy to sleep on the forest floor? Where the heck is Jake going to get a job anyway, especially one that pays better than "more money than we can spend"? And what is there to spend the money on anyway?
KKW wanted Jake to get a job so that he would "become more responsible" but honestly there's nothing to be responsible for. It's like the only thing he really wants is more attention from his dad.
oh
posted by rebent at 10:12 AM on July 22, 2014 [8 favorites]
Buuuuuuuuut that responsibility is just a sham! Why is the fox paying rent to live in a tree when it was happy to sleep on the forest floor? Where the heck is Jake going to get a job anyway, especially one that pays better than "more money than we can spend"? And what is there to spend the money on anyway?
KKW wanted Jake to get a job so that he would "become more responsible" but honestly there's nothing to be responsible for. It's like the only thing he really wants is more attention from his dad.
oh
posted by rebent at 10:12 AM on July 22, 2014 [8 favorites]
%n: Why is the fox paying rent to live in a tree when it was happy to sleep on the forest floor?
Last time we saw him he was living in a house (which got trashed by Cinnamon Bun). Maybe he prefers being indoors now.
posted by bjrn at 12:17 PM on July 24, 2014 [2 favorites]
Last time we saw him he was living in a house (which got trashed by Cinnamon Bun). Maybe he prefers being indoors now.
posted by bjrn at 12:17 PM on July 24, 2014 [2 favorites]
Two things I noticed on re-watch... Kim Kil Whan has a statue of the King of Ooo in his house. The banana guards have a German police flag hanging on the wall of the jail.
posted by drezdn at 6:12 AM on August 1, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by drezdn at 6:12 AM on August 1, 2014 [1 favorite]
I've thought some more about how I feel about Adventure Time in the intervening weeks. I've realized that part of the reason I feel the way I do is that I drew unwarranted conclusions based on the first episodes I ever saw.
I avoided the show for a long time because the art direction made me think it was "for kids." The first episode I watched was "His Hero." I thought, "These guys have obviously played D&D. Maybe this will be fun." I guess it must have been a themed marathon one afternoon, because the next few I saw also involved some kind of dungeon delving. So I drew the conclusion it was that kind of show. As I watched more often they only occasionally addressed the back story or deeper feelings as in "Simon & Marcy" or "I Remember You."
In any case, as I said I still like Adventure Time. I just need laughs more than existential angst right now, and the show has been light on the laughs this season.
P.S. I did take your suggestion to try some of the other Cartoon Network shows, Small Dollar, and you were right. Even though I don't really do comic books or superheroes, I've really enjoyed Teen Titans Go. Starfire especially gives me the laughter. I also really have enjoyed The Amazing World of Gumball, which regularly makes me laugh.
I already was a big fan of Regular Show, which sometimes addresses feelings but more usually has the characters having ridiculous adventures. (Although sometimes it's both, as in "Skip's Story.")
posted by ob1quixote at 1:03 AM on August 6, 2014
I avoided the show for a long time because the art direction made me think it was "for kids." The first episode I watched was "His Hero." I thought, "These guys have obviously played D&D. Maybe this will be fun." I guess it must have been a themed marathon one afternoon, because the next few I saw also involved some kind of dungeon delving. So I drew the conclusion it was that kind of show. As I watched more often they only occasionally addressed the back story or deeper feelings as in "Simon & Marcy" or "I Remember You."
In any case, as I said I still like Adventure Time. I just need laughs more than existential angst right now, and the show has been light on the laughs this season.
P.S. I did take your suggestion to try some of the other Cartoon Network shows, Small Dollar, and you were right. Even though I don't really do comic books or superheroes, I've really enjoyed Teen Titans Go. Starfire especially gives me the laughter. I also really have enjoyed The Amazing World of Gumball, which regularly makes me laugh.
I already was a big fan of Regular Show, which sometimes addresses feelings but more usually has the characters having ridiculous adventures. (Although sometimes it's both, as in "Skip's Story.")
posted by ob1quixote at 1:03 AM on August 6, 2014
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I know there has always been this kind of underlying sadness to the whole thing, but I feel like it's coming to the surface more often than it used to. Is that because much of my exposure to the older episodes is through repeats and they don't show the downers as often as the goofy fun? Has there been a change in the production team?
Anyway, I still like Adventure Time, I just miss the adventures. I watch cartoons to get away from the "real thick chowder" of my life.
posted by ob1quixote at 12:20 PM on July 18, 2014