Hannibal: Contorno
July 2, 2015 8:02 PM - Season 3, Episode 5 - Subscribe

Jack and Will along with Chiyoh arrive in Florence with different agendas for Hannibal while Detective Pazzi gets close.

Zero to snails in record time? I forget. ALSO GOOD LORD, THE MUSIC DURING THOSE MOTH MAN SHOTS.

Pazzi's wife is adorable. Mason's still a pig even after he lost his snout.

Will is the worst at pillow talk and cuddling. Margot got lucky when she just left while he was sleeping after.

My jaw dropped when Pazzi called not for police backup, but for the other kind of piggy backup. He was clearly not long for this world anyway, given the way Hannibal watched him go.

And then Will fell head over heels for Chiyo! (I can't wait to see Cleolinda's storify for this episode where there's a whole page dedicated to (goldberg) variations on that joke). My jaw dropped again at this moment.

Hannibal... interrogating Pazzi was... Terrifying. Completely terrifying. The monster of Mizumono, but not enraged, and only a little playful. Business-like. Matter of fact. And then that horrifying conversation with Alana. HER FACE. And then... WELP. Yes. The show handily topped the Ridley Scott version of this.

Was Alana calling Pazzi to warn him like Will called Hannibal?

I don't even know what to say about the REEEEMATCCHHHHH. It's what Hannibal deserves for being cheeky when he senses Jack instead of running. The soundtrack selection was straight Looney Tunes. Jack was punching Hannibal, like, once for every cannibal pun? It was brutal, and ends with them somehow finding a way to make the Pazzi display even gorier. God damn what an ending.

Everyone who complained about the first few episodes silenced well and truly like the lambs. This was a hell of an episode.
posted by sparkletone (183 comments total) 8 users marked this as a favorite
 
CRAZED CANNIBAL SCREAMING
posted by poffin boffin at 8:03 PM on July 2, 2015


WHOOP HIS LITHUANIAN ASS, JACK!! YASSS!
posted by Windigo at 8:03 PM on July 2, 2015 [7 favorites]


CLOCKWORK ORANGE CALLOUT
posted by Bringer Tom at 8:04 PM on July 2, 2015 [6 favorites]


I still can't get used to Alana having so many of Clarice's lines though.
posted by poffin boffin at 8:04 PM on July 2, 2015


Yeah, I think we have seen that Alana is not quite as ruthless as she'd like to be (or her collaboration with Mason has all been a con). Meanwhile, SPITTERS ARE QUITTERS -- what a dirty boy he is.
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:05 PM on July 2, 2015 [1 favorite]


HOLY FUCK Fuller's vision is that Hannibal is Alex
posted by Bringer Tom at 8:06 PM on July 2, 2015 [2 favorites]


Don't forget the homage to Throw Momma Wilgram from the Train. . . .
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:06 PM on July 2, 2015


This could’ve all been easily handled if Mason just hired Rihanna
posted by Windigo at 8:08 PM on July 2, 2015 [1 favorite]


When Kubrick used The Theiving Magpie in Clockwork Orange, it had sort of an ironic frisson. That whole movie got a ton of mileage from the juxtaposition of high art and brutal violence. At this point, that movie is probably one of the biggest Rossini distribution vectors.

Now it might as well be the iconic soundtrack to ultra-violence.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 8:13 PM on July 2, 2015


I now know exactly what Fuller's vision is. Hannibal is the grown-up Alex from A Clockwork Orange. A good vision, not exactly Harris's, but I'm not sure how he'll hang Red Dragon on it.
posted by Bringer Tom at 8:13 PM on July 2, 2015


Vigilante Pro-Tip #1: Do not stand around on the business end of a caboose with a person of ambiguous loyalties.
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:15 PM on July 2, 2015 [1 favorite]


not to get all victim blamey but once you have actually IDENTIFIED THE CANNIBALISTIC SERIAL KILLER you should probably never turn your back on him, not for any reason.
posted by poffin boffin at 8:20 PM on July 2, 2015 [17 favorites]


AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH

HA HA HA HA I CALLED CHINYO TWO WEEKS AGO
posted by The Whelk at 8:28 PM on July 2, 2015 [1 favorite]


Mason has such a tasteless joke, such a pig

I need a cigarette
posted by The Whelk at 8:29 PM on July 2, 2015 [1 favorite]


Somebody must've given Standards and Practices a bounty to get that line through.
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:30 PM on July 2, 2015 [3 favorites]


Come on Will, were you really surprised that you got pushed off the train?
posted by codacorolla at 8:30 PM on July 2, 2015


Somebody must've given Standards and Practices a bounty to get that line through.

What was the line again?
posted by Windigo at 8:31 PM on July 2, 2015


Hannibal just wandering the streets of Floerence caked in blood
posted by The Whelk at 8:32 PM on July 2, 2015 [3 favorites]


Spitters are quitters.
posted by The Whelk at 8:32 PM on July 2, 2015


What was the line again?

Here it is.
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:33 PM on July 2, 2015 [1 favorite]


COME FOR THE FINE ART, BEAUTIFUL VISUALS, EMOTIVE ACTING

STAY FOR THE BLOWJOB JOKES
posted by The Whelk at 8:34 PM on July 2, 2015 [10 favorites]


Jeez, how'd that get through the cracks? I think that was said when I was busy admonishing the dog for farting on me.
posted by Windigo at 8:39 PM on July 2, 2015 [1 favorite]


Also, between the shampooing last week and the touchy-feely snailtalk this week, I gather we're meant to conclude that Bedelia and Hannibal are definitely having the sexytimes, si?
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:42 PM on July 2, 2015 [3 favorites]


Even in his pig face state Mason can still be Literally The Worst

Also

The wheel imagry. Before with Alana stuck on spokes in the hospital, to Hannibal being broken on a wheel by Jack...it's


The wheel of fortune

"while the wheel is spinning spinning spinning. I'll not dream of winning..."
posted by The Whelk at 8:43 PM on July 2, 2015 [1 favorite]


Jesus, talk about Grand-Guignol.


Interesting that they went with St. Catherine imagery for Jack's fight with Hannibal, when it was all St. Sebastian when Ed Norton fought him in the 2002 version of Red Dragon. St. Catherine is the protector of virgins...is that how Jack views Will?


Also, Will is straight-up in Purgatory, isn't he? I mean- not even Lithuania still has steam trains.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 8:47 PM on July 2, 2015 [6 favorites]


I sort of get what Todd VanDerWerff is saying here, but I disagree that the train parts of this episode don't work. Episode 3 felt slow to me, nothing else has really, most especially not this episode.

Sepinwall thought it was bumpy as well.
posted by sparkletone at 8:49 PM on July 2, 2015


Holy smokes. I seriously did not expect the Thieving Magpie. Things are moving too fast for an hallucinatory train track odyssey episode, I imagine.
posted by detachd at 8:52 PM on July 2, 2015


I'm expecting at least one recap to say "After Chiyoh dumps him, Will goes stag to Florence."
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:58 PM on July 2, 2015 [13 favorites]


The Universal Monsters Hannibal Cross Tabular Sheet:

Dracula - Hannibal
Wolfman - Will
Chilton - Phantom of the Opera
Verger - Frankenstein
Alanna - Bride of Frankenstein

I'm missing direct correlations for The Mummy, The Creature from the Black Lagoon, The Hunchback and The Invisible Man.
posted by codacorolla at 8:59 PM on July 2, 2015 [3 favorites]


When Chinyo told Will there are other ways besides violence I thought OH NO DID SHE JUST TELL HIM TO REFORM HANNIBAL BY LOVING HIM OH GOD ARE MY HORRIBLE POWERS MANIFESTING
posted by The Whelk at 8:59 PM on July 2, 2015 [8 favorites]


Oh god what is Chinyo's deal anyway, another one of Hannibal's brides?
posted by The Whelk at 9:01 PM on July 2, 2015


chiyoh: will i'm just saying

will: girl don't worry i'm definitely gonna bang him

chiyoh: *shoves*
posted by poffin boffin at 9:02 PM on July 2, 2015 [10 favorites]


50/50 it ends with the hate bang to end all hate bangs
posted by The Whelk at 9:04 PM on July 2, 2015 [2 favorites]


Assuming I could shoot the breeze with Hannibal even once without quaking and pissing myself, I'm trying to figure out just how much filthy lucre it would take to induce me to go back. Pretty sure it's: none. None lucre.
posted by FelliniBlank at 9:05 PM on July 2, 2015 [4 favorites]


I can't tell how I feel about Chiyoh. I did like her calling Will out for liking to kill people, but she sorta feels like a distraction. Like Will only went to Lithuania and met her in order to use up some time so Hannibal didn't get caught too soon in the season?
posted by showbiz_liz at 9:07 PM on July 2, 2015 [1 favorite]


Why does EVERYONE insist on basically telling Hannibal to his face 'FYI I know you are A Famous Cannibal ok bye see you later'
posted by showbiz_liz at 9:09 PM on July 2, 2015 [12 favorites]


The Ravenstag is back! Oh, how I missed him.

I like that we had both shirtless Hannibal and Magic Mike XXL ads. Something for all level of brows tonight.
posted by rewil at 9:11 PM on July 2, 2015 [3 favorites]


Or, yeah, Hannibal is totally St. Catherine, protecting Will. That's what I meant.


I should really drink less when I watch this.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 9:12 PM on July 2, 2015 [1 favorite]


Who told any of them to put on shirts ever
posted by The Whelk at 9:13 PM on July 2, 2015 [4 favorites]


Think back to season one episode one. Who could have foreseen Shirtless Hannibal Feeds Gillian Anderson Snails?
posted by showbiz_liz at 9:14 PM on July 2, 2015 [5 favorites]


Remember when them being in love was a bit of subtext flavor and not the reason why everything happens?
posted by The Whelk at 9:17 PM on July 2, 2015 [6 favorites]


Watching with my friends who are less obsessed than I am, and also drink before the show sometimes, is distracting but amusing. They thought Will and Chiyoh were back on the boat. And didn't remember the firefly man being made so were very confused by that
posted by showbiz_liz at 9:18 PM on July 2, 2015 [1 favorite]


Chinyo's deal anyway, another one of Hannibal's brides?

No! And this is why I disagree with TVDW finding those scenes boring. So (my dodgy memory and not being at home to rewatch taken into account):

Chiyoh and Will have this long convo about her past and Hannibal as mentor and the nature of Hannigram. Will ends up telling her that he thought about running away with him blah blah blah. Will throws the "you said you weren't a killer but here you are" thing at her again (WORST PILLOW TALK). Later, Chiyoh goes to the caboose and after some more words and smooching, tosses Will over the back.

Will freed Chiyoh from her anchorman (sorry not sorry) and forced her to confront that she actually is capable of killing. To boot, dumbass Will has made himself seem an unreliable revenge partner with his talk of wanting to be around/with Hannibal. Chiyoh now knows she can avenge herself and was cool with this new dude, but... Not if he's gonna get cold feet at the crucial moment.

So she says goodbye in a way and tosses him.

Nothing's gonna get in her way. I loved watching it unfold. It took most of the helpful!Stag wake up scene for me to get over my shock and get what just happened. I thought it was neatly done.
posted by sparkletone at 9:20 PM on July 2, 2015 [7 favorites]


WHOOP HIS LITHUANIAN ASS, JACK!! YASSS!
posted by Windigo


Did somebody else do the eponysterical comment for this poster in a previous Hannibal thread already
posted by Greg Nog at 9:37 PM on July 2, 2015 [2 favorites]


I mean 'Greg Nog' is pretty apropos too, it's a drink but it's people
posted by showbiz_liz at 9:39 PM on July 2, 2015 [13 favorites]


Oh god, the looney tunes fight scene with the waltz music, I wonder if it was based on the comment that the cabinet smack in the s2 fight was a "looney tunes moment"

Seriously until the end of it I was convinced it was Jack imagining how the fight would go.
posted by The Whelk at 9:42 PM on July 2, 2015


Hannibal taunting Jack about Bella is exactly what we were talking about in the last thread. When he's cornered, he goes right for the psychological jugular, politeness be damned.
posted by showbiz_liz at 9:44 PM on July 2, 2015 [5 favorites]


As entertaining as the fight was, it felt like a dramatically weird beat to me after Hannibal killed Pazzi, which more properly felt like the end. I mean, it's a great scene taken on its own terms, but structurally it just seemed...off. I enjoyed the episode, but I'm not sure it hangs together very well. The pacing was strange; the tone shifted a lot, even within scenes. Maybe this works better without commercials, or (perhaps) without breaks between episodes.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 9:50 PM on July 2, 2015 [2 favorites]


I would never want to meet Hannibal Lecter not because of the whole cannibal thing, but because whatever he SAID to me about myself would probably mentally destroy me
posted by showbiz_liz at 9:50 PM on July 2, 2015 [8 favorites]


they work a lot better as uninterrupted three hour longeurs honestly
posted by The Whelk at 10:04 PM on July 2, 2015


So, in the book, Pazzi finding Hannibal and getting his guts slingshotted out is a separate time and location from Clarice finding him via wine and other fancy crap. But here they've combined those events - meaning, if Pazzi hadn't called Mason, then Mason and Alana still would have known basically where to find him.

So Alana found him via the shopping, Pazzi found him by following the trail of corpses that lead directly to him, Jack found him by just following Will around, and Will of course found him because Hannibal cryptically told him where he would be and then very non cryptically stuck a dead guy there. And apparently Chiyoh just knows where he is already.

Man, Hannibal is just not really hiding at all is he
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:41 PM on July 2, 2015 [10 favorites]


I should really drink less when I watch this.

This is...not part of my plans for this season.
posted by figurant at 10:41 PM on July 2, 2015 [3 favorites]


hannibal going into hiding is like me saying "i will definitely not finish all this ice cream"

a tragic failure, basically
posted by poffin boffin at 10:45 PM on July 2, 2015 [11 favorites]


I mean I guess if he really wanted to hide, returning to a place where he was previously investigated for serial murder and then committing some more serial murder would not have been part of the plan
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:45 PM on July 2, 2015 [2 favorites]


Hannibal pls there is hiding in plain sight and then there is literally not hiding at all

It's like when you notice the puns, the only thing keeping people from noticing Hannibal is a fancy cannibal is them literally not noticing what's going on directly in front of them. It's the Nobody In Dracula Knows They're In A Book Called Dracula trope again.

I liked Alana like, literally putting the pieces together for Mason "Fine china! Table cloths! Antique silverware! This isn't like totally freaking obvious to you?"
posted by The Whelk at 10:46 PM on July 2, 2015 [5 favorites]


Hannibal going into hiding is like me eating a peanut butter cup and then saying out loud " I'll put the other one in the freezer for tomorrow!" Knowing full well I'll be back for in ten minutes, tops.
posted by The Whelk at 10:48 PM on July 2, 2015 [1 favorite]


I'm sad that we won't get to hear him say "I'm giving very serious thought to eating your wife".
posted by poffin boffin at 10:48 PM on July 2, 2015 [4 favorites]


the peanut butter cup is also people
posted by poffin boffin at 10:49 PM on July 2, 2015 [2 favorites]


Which I guess is why it was even more infuriating for Will cause JUST LISTEN TO HIM HE KEEPS MAKING CANNIBAL PUNS WHY IS NO ONE SEEING THIS

And then it happens to Chilton "I've literally felt your pain."
posted by The Whelk at 10:50 PM on July 2, 2015 [1 favorite]


When he wheeled Pazzi to the window I really hoped he'd say "Okey Dokey"
posted by The Whelk at 10:50 PM on July 2, 2015 [6 favorites]


Without spoiling the spoilery content of the trailer, it was pretty fucking audacious of them to straight up say "next week is crazy. So crazy you guys. You will NOT BELIEVE next week we guarantee it!!! So crazy!"
posted by showbiz_liz at 11:09 PM on July 2, 2015 [2 favorites]


and apparently Chiyoh just knows where he is already.

Chiyoh knows via Will I thought? I didn't get to do my usual two in a row viewing ritual tonight, though viewing two will be in not too long.
posted by sparkletone at 11:10 PM on July 2, 2015


I think Will said he's looking for him in Italty so for Chinyo to go "yeah he's in Florence, I knew all along" is the sudden reveal.
posted by The Whelk at 11:12 PM on July 2, 2015 [1 favorite]


As posted on my Twitter here is my current TV setup. I took all my art off the wall for this damn show...
posted by showbiz_liz at 11:18 PM on July 2, 2015 [3 favorites]


So, up until this week I would have said that Hannibal and Bedelia were almost definitely not banging. But now I'm... not so sure.
posted by showbiz_liz at 11:29 PM on July 2, 2015 [1 favorite]


The Ravenstag is back! Oh, how I missed him.

Was that Ravenstag or Ravenmoose? I thought it was a moose. When in doubt, follow the moose.
posted by homunculus at 11:32 PM on July 2, 2015 [1 favorite]


Man I have a hard time understanding accents sometimes and this season is killing me.
posted by showbiz_liz at 11:43 PM on July 2, 2015


they are totes doing the do
posted by poffin boffin at 11:46 PM on July 2, 2015 [7 favorites]


Oh, I loved how they took the Pazzi set-piece from the book (and the shitty movie?) and then immediately upstaged it with both the "oh shit Jack saw that oh shit Jack sees Lecter oh shit Lecter sees Jack seeing him" reveal and then EPIC GRUDGE MATCH.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 11:46 PM on July 2, 2015 [4 favorites]


Also (a) Hannibal sure is resilient, and (b) what's Jack's deal here?

Not capturing Hannibal, for sure: he seemed remarkably unconcerned about Hannibal limping away after the defenestration. Payback and humiliation?

(Is this the least Hannibal has been in control of a situation? The swimming pool ambush, maybe; although even there on his Jesus bucket he seemed very cool and confident.)
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 11:55 PM on July 2, 2015 [1 favorite]


Was that Ravenstag or Ravenmoose? I thought it was a moose. When in doubt, follow the moose.

You cannot POSSIBLY be serious. A MOOSE ONCE BIT HANNIBAL'S SISTER. (This had nothing to do with him becoming a cannibal.)

That aside, rewatching now: Will knows it's Florence because Boticelli (the painting). Chiyoh's following him. She seems okay with it, says she never expected to go to Italy (ie ever leave the castle). It's not that she knew where to go. Before that, Will asks if now free of her rules, she'll kill Hannibal. Chiyoh says she sees him doing it. Hence why when Will reveals his weakness he gets tossed away.

And seriously, I've said it eight times, but what the fuck is the score doing in this episode half the time. I can't wait to hear what the Sight On Sound people have to say (they always talk a lot about the music both the classical and Reitzell stuff).
posted by sparkletone at 12:03 AM on July 3, 2015


they are totes doing the do

I like that it's ambiguous though. I want it left that way.
posted by sparkletone at 12:04 AM on July 3, 2015


The AV Club review this week feels strangely brief, but the A- and the tone suggests they liked it much more than Sepinwall or VanDerWerff.
posted by sparkletone at 12:15 AM on July 3, 2015


Alana like, literally putting the pieces together for Mason "Fine china! Table cloths! Antique silverware! This isn't like totally freaking obvious to you?"

Alana, come on! Mason isn't stupid, but one of his defining traits is his utter and complete LACK of taste, manners, and some other things! But especially taste and manners. He's so fucking unrefined Hannibal made his face dog food (though she wouldn't know the details there necessarily). Just look at how he talks to you!

I loved that scene.
posted by sparkletone at 12:21 AM on July 3, 2015


Oh, man. I misread quite a bit of the Chiyoh stuff. Poor Will. Chiyoh did know right where Hannibal was (sorry for questioning on half remembered first watch). She didn't go because of her anchor(man). Will was a train ticket, yes... But Will was a way for her to kill Hannibal without violating her rule against having blood on her own hands. But I was partly right. Will showed himself to be too susceptible to Hannibal's influence. And, well, blood is already on her hands. But she can transcend that. Since he can't transcend that and is a danger to the mission, well, over the railing he goes.
posted by sparkletone at 12:40 AM on July 3, 2015


Oh, I loved how they took the Pazzi set-piece from the book (and the shitty movie?)

I personally think the film is an improvement on the book, but I'm glad we got this scene again because it's one of the highlights of the book - and while it was almost anti-climactic here, that didn't matter, because of the showdown and Hannibal using Pazzi's body as a means of escape. Genius.
posted by crossoverman at 5:50 AM on July 3, 2015


Hannibal taunting Jack about Bella is exactly what we were talking about in the last thread. When he's cornered, he goes right for the psychological jugular, politeness be damned.

But it was polite taunting, is what I'm saying, not directly insulting "I see you're buying your suits at K-Mart now that the old ball-n-chain is worm meat, eh, Jack?" or name-calling. He just said comforting stuff about how sorry he was about Bella and how lovely it was that Jack was able to send her on her way peacefully; the viciousness was all subtext.

Now, there was the (friendly) "aftershave with a ship on the bottle" comment to Will, so I guess Show-Hannibal probably would do some version of the "cheap shoes" remark to Clarice or whoever with more elegant language, but I just can't see him being crudely direct and mocking a la Hopkins about it rather than polite with devastating implications. That Hopkins speech has an almost Verger-like flavor to it. But I may be wrong, and we may never know [sniffle].
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:29 AM on July 3, 2015 [2 favorites]


Oh I mean it wasn't CRUDE, but saying "hey Jack, you totally killed your poor sick wife" was not polite.
posted by showbiz_liz at 6:47 AM on July 3, 2015 [2 favorites]


I feel like I need to go back and watch every snail scene and figure out wtf is up with this recurring snail motif
posted by showbiz_liz at 6:49 AM on July 3, 2015 [2 favorites]


Which I guess is why it was even more infuriating for Will cause JUST LISTEN TO HIM HE KEEPS MAKING CANNIBAL PUNS WHY IS NO ONE SEEING THIS

Hell, even without the puns, we've got Jack and Will, two bigtime expert FBI profilers who have encountered lots of psychopaths and other twisted fucks, and they just see nothing even vaguely unusual about a guy with cold dead eyes, a flat affect, and a sinister accent who plays the theremin and constantly says shit like, "Say, let's all enjoy this lovely platter of Sheep Pancreas Tartare that I've prepared!" I mean, I get that, like me, J & W haven't spent their whole lives surrounded by refined posh gourmet cooking, but dudes, please, nobody sane eats that much organ meat.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:50 AM on July 3, 2015 [4 favorites]


You cannot POSSIBLY be serious. A MOOSE ONCE BIT HANNIBAL'S SISTER. (This had nothing to do with him becoming a cannibal.)

He's a werestag! It all makes sense now.
posted by kewb at 6:55 AM on July 3, 2015 [1 favorite]


Oh I mean it wasn't CRUDE, but saying "hey Jack, you totally killed your poor sick wife" was not polite.

Oh sure, not in its intent or meaning, but totally polite in that smiling gracious passive-aggressive "butter wouldn't melt in my mouth, bless your heart" Emily Post manner so expertly practiced in the American South.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:56 AM on July 3, 2015


That beatdown wasn't for Jack, it was for Miriam and everybody else Hannibal has preyed on. Notice that Hannibal falls for the same trick he used on Miriam Lass (and book!Will).
posted by kewb at 6:59 AM on July 3, 2015 [2 favorites]


Great use of The Thieving Magpie; someone in charge of this show must be a fan of the Clockwork Orange soundtrack. Seriously, the music this episode seemed a bit more electronically out there than it has been.

But then subtlety is out the window, isn't it? Oh, let's have the cop be dirty in a bank vault with stacks of cash next to him!
posted by Catblack at 7:06 AM on July 3, 2015


They haven't given themselves a hell of a lot of time to wrap this plot up, have they?

I haven't objected to the over-the-topness and nonlinear pacing this season like some have, but I wonder if, in retrospect, the second and third episodes will feel like they took away time that would have been better allocated to the next three. We'll see!
posted by showbiz_liz at 7:14 AM on July 3, 2015


This is super interesting. So apparently Richard Armitage said in an interview that he “studied a kind of ancient Japanese form of movement” to prepare for the role of Dolarhyde, and someone has IDd the form he was talking about based on a photo he tweeted. Watch the video in the link - somehow it just makes perfect sense for the character.
posted by showbiz_liz at 9:36 AM on July 3, 2015 [3 favorites]


FelliniBlank: Also, between the shampooing last week and the touchy-feely snailtalk this week, I gather we're meant to conclude that Bedelia and Hannibal are definitely having the sexytimes, si?

Bryan Fuller intended it as such. He tweeted "THE AMAZING @FeedingHannibal ILLUSTRATES #HANNIBAL’s RAID ON HIS COCHLEAR GARDEN FOR SEXY TIME POST COITAL MUNCHIES" (including the food diagram).
posted by mountmccabe at 9:37 AM on July 3, 2015 [1 favorite]


Seeing Jack pause, stare Hannibal down, and then race into the building gave me the most delightful frisson of "OH MY GOD SHIT'S GONNA GO DOWN" that I've had in a while. Watching Hannibal get tossed behind Jack into the glass case gave me more delighted tingles.

I turned on the tv about five minutes late, so apparently missed more snails? So many snails. But also shirtless Mads, so I will make sure my rewatch is soon.

I admit to being not so very interested in WIll and Chiyo right now, but maybe that will improve on rewatch. And I honestly do feel like the Pazzi we met earlier in the season and the Pazzi who went after the bounty are not the same man - I felt like show Pazzi got crammed into Movie and book Pazzi's plotline just when it had to happen.
posted by PussKillian at 9:42 AM on July 3, 2015 [1 favorite]


the sneaking up with shoes off is how book hannibal caught book will, which i found to be QUITE DELICIOUS
posted by poffin boffin at 9:52 AM on July 3, 2015 [3 favorites]


So, wait is it an open question that Chinyo throws Will off the train film noir style because she wants to protect Hannibal or cause she's sure Will's too far gone to actually kill him and she's gonna have to do it herself?

Cause I'm thinking my prediction that she sniper shoots Will is gonna come true
posted by The Whelk at 10:02 AM on July 3, 2015 [1 favorite]


So, wait is it an open question that Chinyo throws Will off the train film noir style because she wants to protect Hannibal or cause she's sure Will's too far gone to actually kill him and she's gonna have to do it herself?

I think we don't know for sure. I'm gonna have to watch it again...
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:04 AM on July 3, 2015


So - the dungeon guy was turned into a firefly, and we have this whole recurring Thing, underscored in this episode, about snails being eaten by fireflies, which fuels their transformation (which goes back to this thing from last season - "blood and breath are only elements undergoing change to fuel your radiance, just as the source of light is burning").

So then - why turn that guy into a firefly?

He was trapped in that dungeon for years (decades?), never able to escape, not even after he was technically freed. He retreated to a comfortable place and hid there. Kind of snail-like, right? But we also see that even though he had lost his mind and was unable to leave, he still did want to be free.

So Will turns him from a snail into a firefly. (After all, he has also been eating snails this whole time, like a firefly apparently does.) From a house-bound crawling victim to a free-flying glowing predator.

This is exactly what he did to Randall Tier. He turned them both into human/animal hybrids which symbolically granted them desires they were never able to fulfill in life.

I think if Will did go Full Hannibal (which he won't, but if he did), this would be his MO. Kill people and them transform them into chimeras which represent some unfulfilled longing or need.

Why? Empathy. Even with everything that's happened, Will is still the guy with superhuman empathy to match Hannibal's superhuman lack of it. Which fundamental difference is summed up perfectly in this exchange from the episode with Tier's body:

HANNIBAL: Dissection is disgrace. This is a humiliation, a final indignity.

WILL GRAHAM: He isn't mocking him. This isn't disdain. He's commemorating him.
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:47 AM on July 3, 2015 [18 favorites]


So, wait is it an open question that Chinyo throws Will off the train film noir style because she wants to protect Hannibal or cause she's sure Will's too far gone to actually kill him and she's gonna have to do it herself?

Chiyoh's motivations are pretty opaque to me at this point.
posted by FelliniBlank at 10:53 AM on July 3, 2015 [2 favorites]


I think if Will did go Full Hannibal (which he won't, but if he did), this would be his MO. Kill people and them transform them into chimeras which represent some unfulfilled longing or need.

That would also mimic what Hannibal did in his psychiatric practice: help dangerously disturbed people (or various pieces of putty) be all they can be. After all, says Will, "imitation allows us to better understand the behavior of others."
posted by FelliniBlank at 10:59 AM on July 3, 2015 [1 favorite]


I'm so conflicted by sexy Mason. I missed Michael Pitt at first, but Joe Anderson is growing on me. His inflection reminds me of W.C. Fields, though, but it totally works. He's just so dangerously thrilling.
posted by frecklefaerie at 10:59 AM on July 3, 2015


Bryan Fuller intended it as such. He tweeted "THE AMAZING @FeedingHannibal ILLUSTRATES #HANNIBAL’s RAID ON HIS COCHLEAR GARDEN FOR SEXY TIME POST COITAL MUNCHIES" (including the food diagram).

Thanks -- I missed that one. I like how the banging is entirely offscreen and not mentioned at all, but we still get clued in quietly from one episode to the next on how their relationship has evolved.
posted by FelliniBlank at 11:06 AM on July 3, 2015


sexy Mason

please no

why dont you love yourself
posted by poffin boffin at 11:17 AM on July 3, 2015 [14 favorites]


why dont you love yourself

The heart wants whatever gross repugnant thing the heart wants.

Meanwhile, I realized that if Fuller ever does get up to the Silence era, there's no real reason for him to include Clarice or a Clarice-esque character at all since Will, Miriam, Bedelia, and Abigail have already been as much Clarice as anyone needs. If I were him, the only characters I would want access to are Jame Gumb, the senator, and the senator's plucky daughter, plus the Buffalo Bill storyline, of course.
posted by FelliniBlank at 11:27 AM on July 3, 2015 [2 favorites]


The What The Flick review. They are in the "even if you thought the sleepy bits were too much, we back, baby" set.
posted by sparkletone at 11:29 AM on July 3, 2015


HANNIBAL: Dissection is disgrace. This is a humiliation, a final indignity.

WILL GRAHAM: He isn't mocking him. This isn't disdain. He's commemorating him.


The best part is the face Will makes as Hannibal widely misinerprets his work , it's a total "ugh you know nothing about my art" face. I've know that face. I've made that face in art crits.
posted by The Whelk at 11:29 AM on July 3, 2015 [5 favorites]


Oh also, because I am supposed to be diligently working from home right now, I instead collected all the lines about 'becoming' in order to make a point to a dude on another website. Thought it might be of interest:

1.04 Will (to Hannibal) "Sometimes… I felt like we were doing the same things at different times of day… like I was eating… or showering or sleeping at the same time he was." "Even after he was dead?" "Even after he was dead." "Like… you were becoming him." "I know who I am. I'm not Garret Jacob Hobbes, Doctor Lecter."

1.06 Angelmaker (to Will, re turning him into an angel): "I will give you the majesty of your Becoming."

1.11 Abel Gideon (to Will): "If I kill her... like he would kill her... I wonder if I could understand him better." [turns into Garret Jacob Hobbs] "I wonder if then you would finally understand who you’ve become."

1.12 Hannibal (to Jack) "Will said he got so close to Garret Jacob Hobbs and what he had done, he felt like he was becoming him."

1.13 Hannibal (to Will) "If you followed the urges you kept down for so long, cultivated them as the inspirations they are, you would become someone other than yourself."

2.02 Hannibal (to Muralist) "God gave you purpose. Not only to create art, but to become it."

2.09 Hannibal (to Will, re his failure to kill the social worker) "You must adapt your behavior to avoid feeling the same way again." Will "Adapt. Evolve. Become."

2.09 Hannibal (to Jack, re MechaFurry) "Your killer could have built a bridge between who he appears to be and what he now knows he's become."

2.09 Hannibal (to MechaFurry) "You are becoming, Randall, and this beast is your higher self. Your bodies, voices and wills are one. Revel in what you are."

2.10 MechaFurry (to Will, re his own mutilation) "This is my becoming... and it's yours."

2.13 Hannibal (to Will) "Do you know what an imago is, Will? [...] It's the final stage of a transformation. Maturity." Will "When you become who you will be."

3.05 Will (to Chiyoh) "In the gnawing sameness of your days... did you look at the shape of things? At... what you were becoming?" "I wasn't becoming anything. [...] I'm not as malleable as you are."

3.05 Chiyoh (to Will, re Hannibal) "If you don't kill him, you're afraid you are going to become him."

And of course, this one doesn't contain the word itself, but it underscores the whole theme:

2.09 Hannibal (to Will) "With all my knowledge and intrusion, I could never entirely predict you. I can feed the caterpillar, whisper through the chrysalis, but what hatches follows its own nature and is beyond me."
posted by showbiz_liz at 11:39 AM on July 3, 2015 [7 favorites]


The What The Flick review .

"Will and Chiyo really aren't Gable and Lombard, not a lot of fun. They're more Last Year at Marienbad" hahahahaha.
posted by FelliniBlank at 11:41 AM on July 3, 2015


Will and Chiyo really aren't Gable and Lombard, not a lot of fun. They're more Last Year at Marienbad

I hadn't heard of this movie, but: "The dream-like nature of the film has both fascinated and baffled viewers; many have hailed the work as a masterpiece, while others find it incomprehensible."

Sounds like Hannibal all right
posted by showbiz_liz at 11:50 AM on July 3, 2015


I did enjoy the Marienbad line cause people saying inexplicable things while surrounded in slow moving luxury and dram logic is a perfect description of the movie.


SO, cause there Might Be Something In This, considering that Hannibal is basically a fan work, I was wondering how many elements/tropes common to fan works can be identified in the show itself, from taking small scenes and expanding them to explain back story, to "fixing" troublesome elements in the original, inventing relationships that where previously in the cracks of the story or nonexistent....
posted by The Whelk at 12:13 PM on July 3, 2015


Well, up until this season it could have been taken as fairly straight, if clearly expanded and elaborated, prequel. Now that it's come up to canon, it's become an AU.
posted by showbiz_liz at 12:24 PM on July 3, 2015


This is what I was trying to say about Chiyo, but in three jpegs and not many words.
posted by sparkletone at 12:32 PM on July 3, 2015 [3 favorites]


Glorious
posted by showbiz_liz at 12:44 PM on July 3, 2015 [3 favorites]


Well, up until this season it could have been taken as fairly straight, if clearly expanded and elaborated, prequel. Now that it's come up to canon, it's become an AU.

I'd say that happened in late season 2 with Margot Verger being radically different from the novels' version -- and thank goodness! -- and Abigail Hobbs's and Beverly Katz's deaths. Freddy Lounds also seems to be a genuinely different character than the novels' version, since the show's Lounds does not seem to be a failed respectable journalist turned tabloid reporter and also has much more with and understanding so far than novel's hapless, grubby dolt.
posted by kewb at 1:20 PM on July 3, 2015 [2 favorites]


I miss Nurse Barney.
posted by poffin boffin at 1:31 PM on July 3, 2015 [1 favorite]


Also, mentioned before, the promo for next week following the episode basically saying GET READY SHIT IS GONNA GET WEIRD.


This is apparently the episode where Bedelia has the funniest line of the series.
posted by The Whelk at 1:38 PM on July 3, 2015 [2 favorites]


I like that according to Bryan it was apparently Mads who insisted that Hannibal just straight up get his ass kicked by Jack. I'd have been fine with another real ass throw down, but this felt sooooo much better.
posted by sparkletone at 2:48 PM on July 3, 2015 [2 favorites]


Also, yeah... Uh. No specifics but that promo is some JESUS TAKE THE WHEEL shit.
posted by sparkletone at 2:48 PM on July 3, 2015 [2 favorites]


Ah, I've been looking for this gif to sum up this season in a nutshell
posted by showbiz_liz at 5:51 PM on July 3, 2015 [2 favorites]




So Will turns him from a snail into a firefly. (After all, he has also been eating snails this whole time, like a firefly apparently does.) From a house-bound crawling victim to a free-flying glowing predator.

But Will is also inverting what Hannibal calls the nature of things; here, we see the snails feeding on the "firefly," not the other way around. And Chiyo, left in suspension by Hannibal, is wrenched into unpredictable motion by Will. \

Jack achieving his catharsis and Hannibal finally experiencing some real comeuppance -- well, I suppose the whole season has been that for him in one sense or another -- was rollicking good fun, and the scene played (as some have noted) almost as comedy. I suppose that's appropriate, given the classical definition of comedy.

But it's also comedic in the Dantean sense: Hannibal's murder of Pazzi, as int he book, plays off of an aesthetics of "medieval" justice like that of the Inferno, where the imbalance or violation of moral/divine order caused by a transgression is redeemed by an analogous corporal suffering. Hannibal inflicts this on Pazzi to mirror his ancestor's fate, but then suffers this himself on Jack's arrival. The choreography echoes not only Hannibal's attack on Miriam Lass but also of his fight with Tobias Budge: Jack uses the wheel much as Hannibal used the ladder in that battle. (Tobias was no innocent, but there's an argument about honor amongst killers and about sacred hospitality in there somewhere.)

And of course Hannibal being smashed through the displays strikes me as a kind of "undoing" of Beverly Katz's murder tableau, as well as a refutation of Hannibal's pretensions. It's no accident that we see what might be our first non-Hannibal dinner scene, an anti-Hannibal dinner, even, with the warm and convivial meal at the Pazzis' apartment. Pazzi is what Jack might have been and almost was, of course; we saw that in Will's fantasy an episode ago, and Jack helpfully flags it up in the dialogue here.

Alana, meanwhile, seems lost; she's incapable of the amorality required to work with Mason Verger, but not capable of the moral strength to put a stop to Mason's dangerous games even when she knows what they will cause. She isn't so much pursuing what she wants or becoming someone new as looking for something to want or someone to become.

But it's not all good stuff, unfortunately. For one thing, for a guy who's bit is hyperempathy, Will sure didn't see Chiyo's shove coming. He doesn't seem to have "read" her very well for whatever reason.

You can write elliptical, purple dialogue for Will Graham or Hannibal Lecter and maybe it's a little grating. But if you write that kind of dialogue for Chiyo, you start veering awfully close to the "inscrutable" stereotype, and Chiyo was already being played as submissive and unreadable.
posted by kewb at 6:35 PM on July 3, 2015 [11 favorites]


For one thing, for a guy who's bit is hyperempathy, Will sure didn't see Chiyo's shove coming. He doesn't seem to have "read" her very well for whatever reason.

I'm not convinced Chiyoh will pay off as a character, but until her arc is over, I'm tryyyying to withhold judgement, so - I feel ok chalking this up to "she has been essentially alone for like what, 15-20 years and no longer behaves in predictable typical human ways"

The choreography echoes not only Hannibal's attack on Miriam Lass but also of his fight with Tobias Budge: Jack uses the wheel much as Hannibal used the ladder in that battle.

YES omg I demand side by side gifs

...how does one make gifs
posted by showbiz_liz at 6:58 PM on July 3, 2015


I've only seen side by side GIFs for Hannibal chucking Pazzi out a window (show vs Ridley Scott movie). Sorry.
posted by sparkletone at 8:31 PM on July 3, 2015 [1 favorite]


Ooo check this one out
posted by showbiz_liz at 9:35 PM on July 3, 2015 [4 favorites]


Ok I couldn't sleep and long story short now I have a fanblog. Follow me, tumblos
posted by showbiz_liz at 1:33 AM on July 4, 2015 [5 favorites]


Nice product placement for Apple... when you're arranging the details of your bounty paying abduction torture murder you don't wanna be using a PC that's for sure.
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 3:02 AM on July 4, 2015


I bet Chilton uses a PC. There's your new ad campaign, Apple! Mads Mikkelsen is a Mac; Raul Esparza is a PC.
posted by kewb at 4:27 AM on July 4, 2015 [5 favorites]


I bet Chilton uses a PC. There's your new ad campaign, Apple! Mads Mikkelsen is a Mac; Raul Esparza is a PC.

I mean, Hannibal vs Chilton is one thing, but Raul Esparza is actually pretty fine
posted by showbiz_liz at 6:19 AM on July 4, 2015 [8 favorites]


Is it just me, or is everyone else also already feeling nervous and trying to steel themselves for S03E06 because one senses it's going to be decimating even by this show's standards and cause the entire webiverse to go bananas?
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:43 AM on July 4, 2015 [1 favorite]


I've got something Hannibal related coming out that day too so part of me is hoping I could just enter a short term coma til Thuursday morning
posted by The Whelk at 9:45 AM on July 4, 2015 [1 favorite]


The only thing I can add to this is that based on my experience of head injury and loss of consciousness, Will won't remember much of his last conversation with Chiyoh.

The end credits music is not in a style I remember hearing in the show before.
posted by infinitewindow at 10:18 AM on July 4, 2015


Well last night I not only made a fanblog but also started learning how to make gifs sooooo
posted by showbiz_liz at 12:59 PM on July 4, 2015


Soon it will be your design
posted by The Whelk at 1:32 PM on July 4, 2015 [3 favorites]


Attempt numero uno
posted by showbiz_liz at 4:26 PM on July 4, 2015 [1 favorite]


All right, people really really need to stop projecting onto Will.

Chiyoh tells Will he's violent, right before pushing him off a train.

Previously, she killed a man and then accused Will of being the one who killed him using her as a proxy. Everyone takes that explanation at face value, but I think Chiyoh's argument is pretty weak. Especially in light of her behaviour this episode.

Like, fool me twice, is what I'm saying. Sorry, Chiyoh, I don't buy your line of BS.
posted by tel3path at 7:55 AM on July 5, 2015


So, Pazzi does the I KNOW UR A KILLR thing that EVERYONE has done so far, to SUCH good effect.

And then he acts like he's not in the room with a killer.

See, Hannibal doesn't wait between telling Pazzi he knows what's up and what he's going to do about it, and doing it.

Alana, likewise, don't just tell your boss that you intend to undermine his plot. Also, don't use the incriminating language they're obviously trying to avoid in the middle of a not especially secure networked conversation. That is just not something that's going to work out for anyone. You were SO much better at being Machiavellian when you were doing it unconsciously.
posted by tel3path at 8:09 AM on July 5, 2015 [1 favorite]


Alana, you can't be an evil mastermind if you start getting all anxious and fretful at the thought that someone might get hurt. Do try to keep up.

Also - it's not enough to understand Hannibal's motives, you have to keep track of the motives of everyone associated with your mission, including people you don't know about!

Poor thing, it's like Alana's playing at Level One and everyone else is on Level Fifteen. She's bitten off more than she can chew. I hope she ups her game in record time.

Also, there was something really wordy about Alana's phone call versus the "they know" call that Hannibal made. He took his time out of calm, while Alana was clearly taking longer out of anxiety. Plus, she introduced herself, when Pazzi must have seen her on webcam earlier anyway. She really, really gave herself away there, to Pazzi AND to Mason.
posted by tel3path at 9:01 AM on July 5, 2015 [1 favorite]


I had forgotten in the hanging-disembowelment, but Hannibal left Pazzi's phone in his suit pocket with the last call being from Alana specifically to fuck with her and Mason. Interpol is going to have some very unpleasant questions for either Mason and his attorneys or Alana.

It's too bad we're probably going to be leaving Italy soon. Kind of hoping we'd see a mazzatello as described in The Count of Monte Cristo.
posted by infinitewindow at 10:15 AM on July 5, 2015 [1 favorite]


I'm trying to put my finger on what's disconcerting about Alana's call to Pazzi.

It isn't that, by calling Pazzi, she put him in danger. The phone call actually made no difference to the outcome, as far as I can tell.

It isn't that she didn't call the Questura or whatever. I assume Alana's faith in legal justice is on the wane right now.

It isn't exactly that she got cold feet... I'm bothered by the fact that she doesn't seem to have planned ahead and is acting like she's surprised that torture-murder is on the agenda, sure, but this kind of thing is really difficult to get right. Will didn't manage it last season either.

It's that... she doesn't even seem to have enough conviction to keep up appearances any more. If you could count on Alana for one thing in previous seasons, it was her determination to keep up appearances no matter what. This season, she can't manage to keep up a front while silently working to undermine Mason's plans - regardless of whether those attempts were successful or not - her anxiety is written all over her face.

If you take away the one thing Alana was best at and truly believed in, what does she have now? How is she going to get out of this one? I guess this is where Margot comes in - nobody can do it alone.
posted by tel3path at 12:42 PM on July 5, 2015 [1 favorite]


I think that the point of Chiyoh, as a character, is to provide the opposite polarity to Alana. Look how similarly the two are styled - finger-waved hair, red lipstick, 30s/40s femme fatale.

Chiyoh is not theatrical, and claims not to be violent (except in the way she treated her prisoner for the occasional two decades, but it's not like he was human or anything), but is ruthless when she judges that it's necessary.

Alana is entirely theatrical, is claiming to be violent, but can't even sustain the pretence of ruthlessness for even a short period of time. In the few seconds she appears in the Skype frame, she can't even manage to play Hannibal on TV; her agitation at the possibility of torture and murder is really shining through.

Chiyoh's stillness and unreadability are similar to Hannibal's; Alana is trying to imitate Hannibal's spectacularity and fondness for imparting Wisdom and Knowledge about Taste and Why It's Good, but it's a veneer only.
posted by tel3path at 2:47 PM on July 5, 2015


Do we have any direct evidence that Will and Chiyoh actually did the do? Other than that they were sharing a berth? I really didn't get the impression she could stand him enough for that.
posted by tel3path at 2:48 PM on July 5, 2015


It's pretty clear in the performances that the kiss she gave Will before the ol' heave-ho was the first and only such kiss up to that point in the story.
posted by wabbittwax at 4:03 PM on July 5, 2015 [5 favorites]


I thought all that talk about pillow talk and cuddling was to be taken literally and I'd missed something.

But wouldn't it be funny if both Hannibal and Will did pillow talk by going on about how they wish they were with their ex. Throwing Will off a train caboose would have been completely justified in those circumstances.

Anyway, I vaguely remembered the death of Pazzi from the book and that it was gross. I think the TV version is much better with Jack turning up to deliberately put on La Gazza Ladra. How did he just happen to have the appropriate vinyl record and to know there'd be a vinyl record player in the room? Did Jack bring his own portable phonograph, like the '60s and '70s ones I used to buy secondhand in the early 80s? I mean, just having the aplomb to do something like that, you could tell that alone was making Hannibal really uneasy.

We're also now getting a look at how on the ball Jack can be when he's not discombobulated by personal tragedy. I'm so glad that Bella was able to die the normal way and that Jack has the fortification of this sane, loving, normal (yes I said "normal" in a value judgement sense, which I never do) marriage to carry him through the rest of his life, be it long or short.

And then ha ha cartoon violence. Hannibal is trying SO HARD to upset Jack and he just can't do it. This is because Jack knows he euthanized Bella and his conscience is clear about it. First he shoves Hannibal through some broken glass (for Alana! who sadly can't be here this evening) and finally through a window (also for Alana!).

Boy, I still remember the badness of reading that novel, sixteen years later. So glad to have this fix fic to put it all right. Someone to take Hannibal's smug ass down a peg or seventeen. Jerk.

Also glad Jack didn't roll over and die of self-centered apathy (an idea I find offensive in itself) the way he did after Bella's death in the book. This Jack was there to uphold his responsibilities to his protegé.

None of this shit like OH HANNIBAL IS SATAN HE IS UNTOUCHABLE BY HUMAN POWER HE IS FASTER AND MIGHTIER THAN BASICALLY ANYONE.

Though I didn't think his suit was quite as offensive this week. The one he wears with Pazzi, you know? Not terrible.
posted by tel3path at 4:30 PM on July 5, 2015 [1 favorite]


An amusing tumblr recap!
posted by The Whelk at 4:54 PM on July 5, 2015 [4 favorites]


They're doing a great job portraying Will as someone at the breakup stage of being so obsessed with his ex that he can't process any information that's not about his ex.

He keeps relating to Chiyoh as like "and we have so much Hannibal-related stuff in common!" and she's like "nah son" and he's like "and you know how it feels like when Hannibal turns you into a taxidermy project and you turn into basically a pod-person of him walking around in your skin?" and Chiyoh is like "NAH SON" and he's like "so did you obsess over how awful it is to be a killer, and stuff, and did you see your prisoner everywhere you looked did you ever hear about a guy called Garret Jacob Hobbs? Well, that's where I got started with Hannibal and" THUD
posted by tel3path at 4:57 PM on July 5, 2015 [11 favorites]


It's hard to come out of the Hannibal Closet it seems
posted by The Whelk at 5:01 PM on July 5, 2015 [1 favorite]


I misremembered, that suit is grounds for arrest all by itself.

You know... the real Mostro attacked couples during sexytimes, when they were completely distracted.

And now Chiyoh suggesting "other kinds of influence".

It IS the one thing Will hasn't tried yet.

On another note, I think the snails are following me. There's dozens outside. I trod on a little snailie the other week and I felt so guilty and now they are everywhere, I think I trod on one in the dark yesterday when I was investigating cat fighting noises and I am sorry.
posted by tel3path at 5:14 PM on July 5, 2015


Like The Birds but with snails and ...slower
posted by The Whelk at 5:43 PM on July 5, 2015 [2 favorites]


I'm not entirely convinced that the trail-pushy-shovey wasn't just another dream/hallucination. The symbolismDeer tends to show up in the more.. ephemeral.. parts of Willgram's existence.

Also, is anyone else picking up on the really creepy way Hanny keeps putting his hands - ever so tenderly! - on and around Our Lady Gillian's neck?
posted by coriolisdave at 6:22 PM on July 5, 2015


Oh hey, the neck thing is called out in Whelk's amusing tumblr recap
posted by coriolisdave at 6:36 PM on July 5, 2015


Rewatch things:

At the end of the Skype where he knowingly sends Pazzi off to be sliced-n-diced (which, when you think about it, is way less cumbersome and more dispositive evidence-wise than collecting and verifying a fingerprint would be), Mason says, "Toodle-oo!" This show.

Of course, as part of the deluxe Don't Go in the Basement trope package, Pazzi not only returns to Hannibal's lair, but does it in the evening when the rest of the museum staff is leaving. Because you really do need to be completely alone in an isolated place with the cannibalistic psychopathic serial killer who knows you know he is who you know he is in order to pick up an object he has touched. Pffffft, why would your personal safety be an issue?
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:59 PM on July 5, 2015 [3 favorites]


i just read something that said Jack is "depressed".

he is not depressed! He's actually doing quite well, and moving on to a whole new life after a sad but ultimately satisfying conclusion to his old life.

He just handed Hannibal's ass to him, how could anyone be sad after doing something like that.

man, I looked forward to the book Hannibal SO MUCH and when it came out I forced myself to read it and that was two weeks of my life I'll never get back.

i remember being completely put off by the whole Pazzi character arc and the gross portrayal of his deah. a universe where everybody is 100% disgusting, there's nobody to root for, and Hannibal is this supernaturally powerful guy, why, the "gypsies" even refer to him as "Shaitan" and daren't kill him! and he walks away from killing Pazzi as smug as ever.

Now 16 years later, along comes Fuller with his fix fic. Just when Hannibal is at his most smug, in comes the not dead at all Jack Crawford and unleashes several minutes of cartoon violence upon Hannibal's smug bastard face. Jolly good, I say.

i've lost patience with the online world where people are like "why didn't Jack just kill Hannibal" ffs why didn't he just do that two seasons ago then we wouldn't have a story and we can all stop watching and go home? i guess that's what you want? Also, do you not think that three solid minutes of cartoon violence might be tiring for Jack? AUGH people are dumb.
posted by tel3path at 3:26 AM on July 6, 2015


And what I really like is how Hannibal is trying to distract Jack with sass and Jack doesn't even bother answering him. it's like Dr Cox on Scrubs scoffing "Oh, please. immune." Except that Jack doesn't even feel the need to say that.

it's as if, once you take away Hannibal's psychological power over others, you also take away most of his physical power.
posted by tel3path at 3:30 AM on July 6, 2015 [2 favorites]


He gets caught, he's not infallible, he's just very, very smart and evil with magical killing abilities but he's obsessed with his own aesthetic. Jack is outside of that, although he does enjoy a good meal. I really hope Jack drags him to jail and makes him beg to see Will for the whole Tooth Fairy thing still to come.
posted by h00py at 3:42 AM on July 6, 2015 [1 favorite]


Funny how, of all things, nobody seems to be off their food.
posted by tel3path at 4:29 AM on July 6, 2015 [1 favorite]


Also funny that Alana thought Pazzi wasn't capable of figuring out that it was a trap. Pazzi handles the whole thing like a dumbass, but he knew at least as much about Hannibal as anyone else. Sounds like there were multiple reasons why he was demoted.
posted by tel3path at 4:34 AM on July 6, 2015


Alana got both Pazzi and Mason to confess, online, to conspiring to commit torture and murder. Why?

Was it really because she thought Pazzi didn't understand what Mason's purpose was?

What is she going to do with this confession? Is she recording all these conversations? If not, did she at least somehow capture the Skype and make multiple backups?

I mean is this all part of an FBI investigation we don't know about?

At the very least, Alana has a confession from both Mason and Pazzi, she called Pazzi to warn him and identified herself by name, Pazzi's murder was already in progress and was completed shortly afterwards, as witnessed by Jack.

Is Alana going to take Mason's confession to law enforcement at all? I mean, if she were Will, I would expect her to be full outlaw and have no truck with the legal system at all. But given that the illegal system apparently isn't working out any better for Alana, I feel like she should at least file a report to cover the bases if nothing else.

Because if this isn't part of a sekrit FBI investigation, and Alana isn't recording everything, and she doesn't report what she knows to law enforcement, what is she planning to do - just watch it all happen while she meebles "oh no I'm so distressed, but I unfortunately can't do anything about it because I'm evil?" I think they have to have something better lined up for her character than that.

Surely Alana, like Bedelia, must be going to pull something out of her pocket at the last second. Right? Right?!???
posted by tel3path at 6:48 AM on July 6, 2015 [1 favorite]


A propos of nothing, I've started memorizing Inferno. One stanza a day! This is kind of like Snoopy's plan to read War and Peace one word a day, but the only real way to experience poetry is to memorize it, so.

I bought Inferno after reading Hannibal 16 years ago, and I never got round to finishing it because I tried to read it too fast.

Wish me luck...
posted by tel3path at 7:30 AM on July 6, 2015 [1 favorite]


Surely Alana, like Bedelia, must be going to pull something out of her pocket at the last second. Right? Right?!???

The show did seem to make sure to connect Alana's deductions to Bedelia's actions, to the point of cutting to a flashback to Bedelia generating the receipts Alana is plunking down; we can likewise compare Alana making sure she's on the Skype call, making it obvious what Mason's up to, to Bedelia making sure to sit in front of the CCTV camera at the train station on her shopping trips.

There are a few ways to go with this. One is to see Alana as the show's replacement for Starling here; int he book, IIRC, Starling finds herself on the outs at the FBI but still trying to find Lecter. She uses Verger to do this to some extent, knowing he's trying to use her; her investigation is totally unofficial, but she's still out to bring Lecter in rather than help Verger torture him to death.

Another is to see Alana as Bedelia's foil or counterpart. Bedelia has become Hannibal's lover as Alana once was, but in full knowledge of what Hannibal is. She is also trying very hard to retain her independence from Hannibal, but is pulled in by her clinical fascination with Lecter, which means Lecter can make her complicit in his crimes. Alana, on the other hand, has achieved physical and emotional distance from Lecter after everything that's happened. But where Bedelia is concerned with getting *herself out*, Alana is looking for a way to be dealt *in* on whateve's going down with Hannibal.

And where Bedelia is now someone who behaves amorally and complicitly while insisting on her detachment and all that, Alana is someone who now insists on her complicity and fascination with Hannibal but who is *actually* behaving in ways that reduce her complicity with Mason's scheme and distance her emotionally and physically from Hannibal. (She rejects Mason's jibes about their former emotional and physical intimacy and redirects into a rather impersonal discussion of taste, for example.) Neither she nor Bedelia is "out" or "in" in quite the ways they'd like to be, but what they'd like is inverted in ways. It's an hourglass plot as far as their personal arcs are concerned.

I think there's a way to get both/and out of these takes on Alana's character, but it requires going meta. The show has actually divvied up the Starling role among a number of characters: Bedelia is Starling post-Hannibal-the-novel where the seduction of Lecter is blanaced by a growing terror and awareness of him, Will is Starling infatuated with Lecter int he Hannibal epilogue, Jack is the fix fic version where Starling just kicks the shit out of Lecter for everything, and Alana is Starling from the earlier portions of Hannibal-the-novel where she's improvising furiously to try and maneuver between Lecter and Verger and a hostile FBI without losing herself entirely.

If Show!Lecter is deliberately drawing these people to himself, on a metalevel the show is sort of saying, "well, Starling p;ays a necessary role that balances Lecter's in the novels up until the horrible, shitty ending of Hannibal-the-novel, and we don't have Starling so everyone has to pitch in to make up the difference." So our Lecter character, who we already know can kind of warp some of the "rules" of narrative, is quite inadvertently forcing everyone to do fragmentary things that will add up to A Starling.
posted by kewb at 7:51 AM on July 6, 2015 [6 favorites]


Right. It isn't going to be any one character who brings Lecter down, they'll all do it. They all have to converge on Florence for it to be possible. I wonder if that's where the train business comes into it - Catching Lecter on the Orient Express.
posted by tel3path at 8:10 AM on July 6, 2015


...and if they all have to bring him down together, that inverts the isolation of previous seasons, and addresses Hannibal's primary (realistic, I might add) weapon that he has against others - the ability to isolate people and drive wedges between them. Zeller correctly identified this isolation as having contributed to Beverly's death.
posted by tel3path at 8:13 AM on July 6, 2015 [3 favorites]


Based on events in the Hannibal novel and the prominent presence of Mason Verger this season, I'm actually guessing that they don't all capture Hannibal in Florence and haul him directly back to legal custody and Chilton's hospital. He may get away (temporarily? permanently?) or someone may catch him, but there pretty much HAS to be a fond reunion of Hannibal and Mason at the ol' Verger place sometime this season, doesn't there? Or maybe Fuller has it planned for later this season or next?, but I just can't see him skipping that outrageously gory material.
posted by FelliniBlank at 10:38 AM on July 6, 2015


And, to all appearances, Alana is not the soulless vampire she's pretending to be. She is the same as the old Alana, just with a willingness to face reality head on, and an improved ability to take direct action as well as to try to intervene directly when someone's in trouble. Even when it's a bastard bent copper like Pazzi turned out to be.

It didn't turn out well, but it also had no net negative effect on the outcome for anyone else (Pazzi was booked for home already).

Instead, and in an inversion of the usual pattern, the negative consequences seem to be pointing towards Alana now - she's blown her cover.

Does it matter that Hannibal knows she's on the case? Probably not - he made it clear he doesn't take her seriously at all. If anything, it could redound to her advantage because he may underestimate her.

If she's outed herself to Mason, though, she's toast until further notice.
posted by tel3path at 10:38 AM on July 6, 2015 [1 favorite]


If she's outed herself to Mason, though, she's toast until further notice.

Yeah, I'm a bit concerned about her too. That's another reason why I suspect there'll be some sort of bloodbath or showdown Chez Verger.
posted by FelliniBlank at 10:41 AM on July 6, 2015 [1 favorite]


Poor Alana! She can only lie if she lies to herself first!
posted by tel3path at 10:44 AM on July 6, 2015


I also think there has to be a Verger Bloodbath Cabaret in the offing. I think Alana is more likely to be in the audience than to get called up on stage.

So far, Alana is the one person who hasn't directly witnessed Hannibal doing violence to another person. She saw him attacking a door! It was Abigail who pushed her out of the window. And then all she saw was the aftereffects on herself and others.

Jack literally saw Hannibal kill Pazzi - and this is on top of the fight in the kitchen, which is still a different experience from watching it done to someone else. I think it's going to be Alana's turn next.

I also think Mason's going to make good on his threat to put Will in a cage with Doctor Lecter, see which one eats the other first.
posted by tel3path at 11:10 AM on July 6, 2015


um I had this horrible thought that I think is just from my own mind, but did Hannibal make use of Italian PO dangling bowels in order to get down?

also, w/r/t the waltz during the beat down, it sort of sadly reminded me of Tarantino's music choices during the fight with the Yakuza, to which I was also like....wtf man
posted by angrycat at 2:17 PM on July 6, 2015


No, Pazzi's innards all came out in one kablumph as he hit the end of the rope. Not sure how that would happen, actually, but it's clearly one tidy package that vacates Pazzi and hits the sidewalk.
posted by PussKillian at 2:28 PM on July 6, 2015 [2 favorites]


Yeah, I think bowels aren't that useful for purposes of abseiling.

Bedelia has sure been a disappointment thus far. She has all this knowledge, and the nerve to put herself next to Hannibal, but apart from wearing hats and gourmet shopping she's basically sat on that knowledge like a lemon. Hannibal isn't even particularly bothered about killing her, despite his oyster-based trolling.

I'm also sick of escargots by now. He's barely putting any effort into his snack repertoire. And they're so much effort to get out of the shells.
posted by tel3path at 3:06 PM on July 6, 2015


Those post-boff snails on a stick looked delicious, tho
posted by angrycat at 4:15 PM on July 6, 2015


and those close up of snail antennae pulsing in and out reminded me of the effects in The Thing

I mean, I don't understand the extended snail metaphor and hope it's clarified soon, but I had never really thought about how completely freaky snails are.
posted by angrycat at 4:17 PM on July 6, 2015


they circle each other for six hours before mating. that's the metaphor.
posted by tel3path at 4:50 PM on July 6, 2015 [3 favorites]


Also, as has been mentioned before, snails use love darts as a courtship ritual. They literally stab each other as part of foreplay. And then there's this lovely video of a carnivorous snail native to New Zealand.

We're told that the snails get eaten by firefly larvae, too, and more specifically by lampyris noctiluca, whose males fly but only glow intermittently....but the female adults, which do not fly, glow brightly and more constantly. Hm.
posted by kewb at 4:59 PM on July 6, 2015 [3 favorites]


i just read that Amazon have said no? is this true? Unverified so far by me.

couldn't Rihanna produce a new season? she seems to have a lot of money
posted by tel3path at 5:03 PM on July 6, 2015 [1 favorite]


argh. I'm called a breakup because I'm broken. Whyyyyyyyyyyy, amazon and netflix why
posted by tel3path at 5:21 PM on July 6, 2015


UNBREAK THE TEACUP ☕️
posted by The Whelk at 5:23 PM on July 6, 2015 [5 favorites]


Oh no
posted by coriolisdave at 7:03 PM on July 6, 2015


Yeah, no Netflix or Amazon. Fuller still holds out hope, of course.
posted by crossoverman at 7:16 PM on July 6, 2015


Fuller still holds out hope, of course.

He kind of has to, or else he would have quit this stupid business a decade ago.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:33 PM on July 6, 2015 [1 favorite]


Sepinwall goes over the options remaining. One thing I didn't realize is that the adaptation of American Gods Fuller is attached to takes precedence for him now. Of the options mentioned, going from an on-going series to intermittent specials aka Sherlock feels like the best one. That possibility hadn't occurred to me.
posted by sparkletone at 6:45 AM on July 7, 2015 [1 favorite]


Maybe Hannibal I caught and in custody and then Verger busts him out for torture fun and in the process Hannibal escapes?
posted by ian1977 at 5:59 PM on July 7, 2015 [1 favorite]


Retooled that comment about Tier's and the prisoner's bodies for the aforementioned fanblog and wow - when you look at the photos together it really is kind of striking. Makes me wonder what other human/animal hybrids Alternate Universe Murder Will would make.
posted by showbiz_liz at 8:22 AM on July 8, 2015 [1 favorite]


I don't know why everyone assumes Chiyoh is not on Hannibal's side. We literally don't know what she wants at this point.
posted by tel3path at 9:33 AM on July 8, 2015


Maybe Hannibal I caught and in custody and then Verger busts him out for torture fun and in the process Hannibal escapes?

That's another good alternative. I'm gonna be disappointed if Hannibal doesn't spend a little more time in Mason's vulgar bacon-fatty clutches before things get sorted, especially if this does turn out to be the final season.
posted by FelliniBlank at 10:29 AM on July 8, 2015


guys, what is that fake Hannibal twitter account
you know the one that would say things like, "Yesterday I recalled Camus said that one of the purposes of life is to loosen the chains of the person next to you. But then I saw a kitten and remembered (something grimly amusing)"
and what has it been up to lately?
posted by angrycat at 1:47 PM on July 8, 2015


The awsome Hannibal twitter account is @ZooHannibal, who has since moved from the zoo to the mall and has not updated as much as I might like.
posted by figurant at 7:39 PM on July 8, 2015 [3 favorites]


The awsome Hannibal twitter account is @ZooHannibal, who has since moved from the zoo to the mall and has not updated as much as I might like.

That's hilarious; someone should make a reboot of My Dinner with Andre featuring Show-Hannibal and Werner Herzog.
posted by FelliniBlank at 9:29 AM on July 9, 2015


I mentioned this in the Deep Dream thread but...

We need a full blown 15 minute snail/meat/hannibal/tacky suits/tea cup/murder-art/dragonfly Deep Dream video sequence like this guy did for Fear and Loathing....
posted by ian1977 at 1:20 PM on July 9, 2015


Episode 5 recap
posted by Greg Nog at 1:56 PM on July 9, 2015 [7 favorites]


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