Hannibal: The Number of the Beast Is 666...
August 21, 2015 1:54 AM - Season 3, Episode 12 - Subscribe

The FBI enlists the help of Dr. Fredrick Chilton in hope of drawing Francis Dolarhyde into an ambush; Will's empathy for Dolarhyde impacts his psyche.

Will has some more therapy with Bedelia in which she tells him things that are true that he doesn't want to hear. Will, Jack and Alana come up with a plan to draw Dolarhyde out that goes horrifyingly wrong. Chilton has a horrible, no good, very bad day (AGAIN). Hannibal has a snack. Will feels terrible, and Bedelia doesn't help him feel better. Reba learns a horrible truth.

Everything happens so much.
posted by sparkletone (348 comments total) 5 users marked this as a favorite
 
Note dump:

- "Previously on..." I AM STILL FULL OF DREAD FROM LAST WEEK.

- Will pls :(

- Will dressed up nice for his appointment with Bedelia this week?

- "Only if he can eat me..." JESUS, BEDELIA. Gillian's face during that line is incredible.

- "Is ... Hannibal in love with me" HAHAHAHA YESSSSSSSSSSS. Poor Will's face though.

- "Do you ache for him?" ... Pretty sure tumblr et al have explored that idea thoroughly...

- Hannibal just compared Will to both a duckling and a lamb. PERFECTLY SUITABLE CUTESY NAMES FOR YOUR BELOVED.

- Uhhhhhh. Bedelia and now Hannibal have both said some fairly terrifying things in terms of "what is to come."

- Hannibal comparing Jack to God is really funny to me given Hannibal's opinion on God with regard to killing and such.

- 0 to Armitage bootyshorts in approx. 5 minutes. Is the painting bleeding or is he? Are they that different anymore?

- Will never not being snotty to Jack anymore. And oh fuck that vision of Alana. She's not wrong though.

- Oh. We're doing the Freddie baiting. THIS GOES SO WELL IN EVERY VERSION OF THIS STORY.

- "I'd have to be a fool" Smash cut to Chilton. LOLOLOLOLOL.

- Hannibal is so, so, so amused by this little man's bleating. I understand though. Hysterical Chilton is fucking hilarious.

- "Fate has a habit of not letting us choose our own endings." GODDAMMIT, NBC.

- Hannibal's face during the genpop rant...

- "The Tooth Fairy is a one night stand" LOL.

- Chilton's turn to look like a happy clam as he sits down with Freddie.

- "Ugly and impotent" JESUS WILL. (also LOL at Chilton's face throughout). This scene is incredible, and really, really funny. This photo's gonna get someone (guessing old Chilty) set on fucking fire.

- Also: That fountain is uh. Something that's featured prominently in set photos from quite some time ago involving well. See previous note.

- Will's looking less the rumpled farm boy this week and I don't think it's just that this is a post-Molly Will?

- Chilton steps out of elevator... AAAND WELP. The guards getting shot in the background as he was yammering was great.

- Skin burning..... Did.... He tattoo .... Chilton? Uh. Super glue? I guess that causes a burning sensation? D:

- As Whelk, me and Cleolinda chattered about on twitter... Yes, begging suits Chilton much better than this version of Freddie.

- Armitage continues to be fucking scary as hell. Esparza is also fantastic here.

- Is Dolarhyde going to... uh... Do the thing? From the books? With ... Um.

- "Do you think god is in attendance here?" Seriously. Armitage. What the fuck. How are you this good/terrifying. How did Esparza not wet himself filming this?

- OH MY FUCKING GOD REBA NONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONO. THIS WAS NOT PART OF THE BARGAIN HERE.

- The last time anyone made soup for someone on this show it had chicken feet or whatever the fuck in it. >_>

- "Withdrawl can be a strategy to avoid pain." Show, pls.

- I can't imagine the level WHAT. THE FUCK. running through Chilton's head right now. Esparza's face was ... inscrutable isn't the right word. But seeing that the monster ~has layers~... Possibly trying to figure out an angle? I think seeing Reba double damned him though.

- Christ, Francis. We know you're a monster but forcibly making someone sit through your vacation slides is just cruel.

- Chilton breaks and fingers Will. It won't save him.

- "You. Are. A slug." --> [smash cut to slow mo shot from earlier in the season]

- Armitage won't win any Emmys for this but fuck he better win something.

- Seriously. How did Esparza not wet himself filming this.

- It's Maim Chilton O'Clock, right? They're about to do the thing? Teeth are in. Yep. here w

- FUCKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK. THAT WAS SOMEHOW EVEN WORSE THAN I EVER THOUGHT IT COULD BE. FUCK. FUCKCKDJFLSEJFESF.

(I may have had to take a few minutes break here. ... Stupid car ads would've been welcome tbh.)

- Did he mail Lecter... Um. Did... Uhhhhhhhh. YEEEPPPPPPPP.

- HANNIBAL AND ALANA'S FACES AS HE OPENS THE MAIL LOL.

- OH MY FUCKING GOD, HANNIBAL. I thought Hannibal was in his straight jacket so that people could be in his cell. Not. Um. WELP. I should not be laughing at that fucking horrifying cut away. In my defense, you just know Bryan started cackling when they came up with that gag.

- HE IS SUCH A HAPPY PIECE OF SHIT.

- "Again." "That's professional discourtesy." Alana's gonna fucking kill him.

- Again Will is dressed up by his standards? But not Murder Husband dressed up exactly. Somewhere between the two? Showing that he's slipping?

- "From my lips..." welp.

- I feel like they were really careful in that shot from below of Will freaking out to make sure his head scar is really showing.

- The "you fucking idiot" in Gillian's expression when she talks about putting a hand on Chilton's shoulder lol.

- Bedelia once again is telling everyone the cold truth that they don't want to hear.

- "You were curious..." I think Spocklar was right. In her own way she is as terrible a therapist for Will as Hannibal. She just doesn't want to bone him.

- Slow mo Chilton on fire is why I won't be sleeping tonight. Thanks, show.

- "Chilton said your name when they brought him into the ER." CHIILLLTOOOONNNNN LIIIIVVVESSSSSSSSSSS.

- BBQ Chilton is not a pretty sight. I guess Bryan did him twice over this episode since it'll be a while before he gets another chance to...

- Francis, the tiger thing was an inspired date idea. This kidnapping thing ... not so much. :(

- The exterior of Dolarhyde's house is p impressive. I don't think we've seen it till now? I forget.

- Poor Reba. Armitage + leather jacket + dragon wings is p fucking metal though.

Annndd... that's it till next week. Oh god next week. I feel like this week was the roller coaster tipping over the top of the big hill and we just got a look down and saw the tracks stop halfway down the drop and we're just going to be flung straight into the fucking ground.
posted by sparkletone at 1:59 AM on August 21, 2015 [2 favorites]


If Dolarhyde climbing over the couch isn't a reference to Bob in Twin Peaks, I will eat my own lips.
posted by crossoverman at 2:52 AM on August 21, 2015 [6 favorites]


I'm mildly appalled that that didn't even occur to me. In my defense there was kind of a lot going on in that moment.
posted by sparkletone at 3:07 AM on August 21, 2015 [1 favorite]


is

Hannibal

in

love

with

me
posted by showbiz_liz at 4:30 AM on August 21, 2015 [4 favorites]


Like, throughout this season, it's been less and less subtextual, but they've never just explicitly stated it like that before. And I honestly never thought they would in a million years.
posted by showbiz_liz at 4:40 AM on August 21, 2015 [1 favorite]


Season one's climax was Will's devastating realization that he's on a show called Hannibal.

This week he finally realized that the show is a romcom.
posted by sparkletone at 4:40 AM on August 21, 2015 [11 favorites]


Raul Esparza deserves a billion Emmys for this episode. That monologue in Hannibal's room!
posted by showbiz_liz at 4:46 AM on August 21, 2015 [2 favorites]


Oh and also, Mason feeding his own face to dogs was MOTHER FUCKING NOTHING compared to the lips thing. My god that was gruesome.
posted by showbiz_liz at 4:48 AM on August 21, 2015 [1 favorite]


At first, I was like, "Oh shit, you just got read by Bedelia, Will Graham!"


But then I was just like, "OH SHIT!"



I think they used the John F. Taylor House in Toronto as the exterior for Dolarhyde's house.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 4:49 AM on August 21, 2015


So I can't wait to see what Bedelia said in response to that question.

Some version of "duh", I'm guessing.
posted by tel3path at 5:09 AM on August 21, 2015 [1 favorite]


In the movie Hannibal, he meets with the Pazzis outside of the opera and gives them a manuscript which contains that one Dante sonnet - the one Hannibal recited at the beginning of this season, where "the eating of the heart is a powerful image."

And then they have this exchange:

ALLEGRA PAZZI: Do you believe a man could become so obsessed with a woman from a single encounter?

HANNIBAL: Could he daily feel a stab of hunger for her? Find nourishment in the very sight of her? I think so. But would she see through the bars of his plight, and ache for him?
posted by showbiz_liz at 5:21 AM on August 21, 2015 [6 favorites]


Can we talk about how Hannibal just straight up ate one of Chilton's severed lips because good god almighty
posted by showbiz_liz at 5:28 AM on August 21, 2015 [1 favorite]


Also, anyone else think they might have cut a scene of Dolarhyde deciding to go see Reba? It seemed a little jarring.
posted by showbiz_liz at 5:32 AM on August 21, 2015


I went into this one thinking it was going to be the last episode. I kept wondering, "how are they going to wrap this up?" I'd also broken down and (re?) watched the Red Dragon movie a few weeks ago, so I knew the basic points to the story. I'm even on a rewatch of the show with my SO, just started season two last night.

But dear goodness this episode (this whole back half of this season really) is great. I love the music -- I think season one, episode 11 is the first one where the music steps up a notch -- and this is another one where it just takes over. I also think that Navarro's the stronger director (by a hair) of the series, and this is another where he knocks it out of the park. I'd love to see a slightly longer cut of this one, where they weren't so pressed for time. There was a little bit of hasty post effects in that one shot of Will and the striking match behind him, but it's just one small shot.

I'm still betting that a decade from now we'll be seeing how this show is influential. It can't be nearly over, can it?

Why did Freddie Lounds get spared in this version? Are they saving her for a potential fourth season? (Where she'll have to rub the lotion on her skin, hmmn?)
posted by Catblack at 5:43 AM on August 21, 2015


It's probably because of the fan rage at Freddie's "fridging" last season, and the revolt against Will terrorizing and beating up an "unarmed" woman (unarmed except for the handgun and the pepper spray, both of which she used against him after breaking into his house).

Tune in later for more "speculating about stuff I haven't seen yet", or alternatively for this week's "word vomit about stuff I am in the course of watching".
posted by tel3path at 6:28 AM on August 21, 2015


Plus the fan reaction to Bev's death. Plus, I suspect, a desire to give Esparza another showcase episode.
posted by showbiz_liz at 6:51 AM on August 21, 2015 [1 favorite]


Like, throughout this season, it's been less and less subtextual, but they've never just explicitly stated it like that before. And I honestly never thought they would in a million years.

Yeah, if you have any friends at this point who think Hannigram is "unlikely" or "a stretch," you need to take them to a neurologist posthaste.

Also, anyone else think they might have cut a scene of Dolarhyde deciding to go see Reba? It seemed a little jarring.

That may be why they inserted her + soup into the Chilton scene (gosh, nothing's more awkward than showing up unannounced at a semi-ex-bf's house to find him in a kimono entertaining a naked hot guy, amirite, laydeez?) -- so that they had a proximate trigger for the Dragon's interest without having to include the whole rigamarole from the the book. Or they may show the "Francis sees Reba on date, kills date" sequence right at the start of next week as an explanatory flashback? But I liked it this way, economical, and the Dragon was always gonna grab her regardless of what she or Francis did.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:11 AM on August 21, 2015


But I liked it this way, economical

Oh, that reminds me that I really like the cut to Dolarhyde just driving with the Tattlecrime on the seat next to him. A lesser show would have shown him finding it, reacting to it, preparing to leave, etc.
posted by showbiz_liz at 7:16 AM on August 21, 2015 [2 favorites]


Mason feeding his own face to dogs was MOTHER FUCKING NOTHING compared to the lips thing

That was in the dark! Chilton had a light pointed at his face. And if you actually look at the length of time, before he's BBQ Chilton, it's barely shown at all but good god it is so effectively disturbing with just those teeny moments. Who would've guessed a guy with a set of pipes like Esparza could scream like that! (Me. I did. I thought I was ready. I was not.)

A lesser show would have shown him finding it, reacting to it, preparing to leave, etc.

I think part of it is trusting the actor to sell all of it without that. Literally all we need without the shoe leather is a shot of the magazine and a shot of Armitage making a face that incredibly pissed off.
posted by sparkletone at 7:28 AM on August 21, 2015 [1 favorite]


With Bev and Abigail as the only two previous series regulars killed off (and Abigail pretty much invented for the sole purpose of being repeatedly abused and killed), it seems vanishingly unlikely that Fuller would have french-fried Freddie here regardless of fan response, which, granted, would be deafening outrage.

Since he let Molly rescue herself and kid last week rather than having the FBI swoop in, I'm still holding out hope for Reba + fireplace poker or something. Anything with a few moments of agency instead of being nothing but the Dragon's fakeout dupe.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:32 AM on August 21, 2015


They made a point of swooping in on various sound-making objects when Dolarhyde carried her into the house.

Actually, come to think of it, I bet they do an homage of the Silence of the Lambs basement scene where Jame Gumb is wearing night vision goggles.
posted by showbiz_liz at 7:50 AM on August 21, 2015 [2 favorites]


Anything with a few moments of agency instead of being nothing but the Dragon's fakeout dupe.

I think there's plenty of hope in that regard. Reba's clearly no pushover and she's Dolarhyde's biggest weak spot even as far gone as he is at this point. We saw that in the way Dolarhyde handled her showing up in the middle of his torture of Chilton. All she needs is a chance to get the drop on him.

Personally, I don't see Dolarhyde surviving next week. I don't think Bryan's going to do the fakeout part. Reba will survive I think, though there's already plenty of emotional trauma and might be more if she has a big hand in Dolarhyde's downfall. Will's got plenty of rage and guilt without piling Reba's death on top of it. It's unnecessary. He'll have putting Molly and Walter in Danger, Chilton and then killing Dolarhyde like Bedelia suggested he do all along all weight on him. Even if Reba is the reason Dolarhyde drops his guard enough for Will to kill him, Will will see it as failure on his part, as more proof that he's nothing but a killer like so many have said over the course of the show. We still get nuclear Will and whatever that leads to in terms of lashing out.

Without saying exactly what it is (it's easily available for the curious), things implied by the title of next week's episode plus some of the dialogue this week are ... not good on that last front. But like I said at the end of my notes, it feels pretty clear to me that we're headed for one hell of a disaster next week.
posted by sparkletone at 7:53 AM on August 21, 2015 [1 favorite]


I was not familiar with Bluebeard's wives.

Bluebeard is a wealthy aristocrat, feared and shunned because of his ugly, blue beard. He has been married several times, but no one knows what became of his wives. He is therefore avoided by the local girls. When Bluebeard visits one of his neighbours and asks to marry one of his two daughters, the girls were terrified, and each tries to pass him on to the other. Eventually he talks the younger daughter into visiting him, and after hosting a wonderful banquet, he persuades her to marry him. After the ceremony, she goes to live with him in his castle.

Very shortly after, Bluebeard announces that he must leave the country for a while; he gives all the keys of the château to his new wife, telling her they open the doors to rooms which contain his treasures. He tells her to use the keys freely and enjoy herself whilst he is away. However, he also gives her the key to one small room beneath the castle, stressing to her that she must not enter this room under any circumstances. She vows she will never enter the room. He then goes away and leaves the house in her hands. Immediately, she is overcome with the desire to see what the forbidden room holds; and, despite warnings from her visiting sister, Anne, the girl abandons her guests during a house party and takes the key to the room.

The wife immediately discovers the room's horrible secret: its floor is awash with blood and the murdered bodies of her husband's former wives hang from hooks on the walls. Horrified, she drops the key into the pool of blood. She flees the room, but the blood staining the key will not wash off. She reveals her murderous husband's secret to her sister Anne, and both plan to flee the castle the next day; but, Bluebeard returns home unexpectedly the next morning and, noticing the blood on the key, immediately knows his wife has broken her vow. In a blind rage, he threatens to behead her on the spot, but she implores him to give her a quarter of an hour to say her prayers. He consents, so she locks herself in the highest tower with Anne. While Bluebeard, sword in hand, tries to break down the door, the sisters wait for their two brothers to arrive. At the last moment, as Bluebeard is about to deliver the fatal blow, the brothers break into the castle; and, as he attempts to flee, they kill him. He leaves no heirs but his wife, who inherits all his great fortune. All of Bluebeard's dead wives are buried and she uses part of his fortune for a dowry to marry off her sister, another part for her brothers' captains' commissions, and the rest to marry a worthy gentleman who makes her forget her horrible encounter with Bluebeard.


"He also gives her the key to one small room beneath the castle, stressing to her that she must not enter this room under any circumstances. She vows she will never enter the room." /// "A mutually-unspoken pact to ignore the worst in one another in order to continue enjoying the best." "After everything he's done, can you still ignore the worst in him?"
posted by showbiz_liz at 7:58 AM on August 21, 2015


That is significantly less pirate-y than I would've guessed, but also makes much more sense as a reference.
posted by sparkletone at 7:59 AM on August 21, 2015


it feels pretty clear to me that we're headed for one hell of a disaster next week.

I should've worded this more strongly. It was clear to me last week, this week amplified that to a degree I have difficulty describing. Bryan made a horrifyingly literal-in-retrospect joke in an interview last season about "not quite landing the plane" in terms of the ending... This time he's pointed the nose straight down.

Random side note: I really hope at some point in livetwet tomorrow they tell us how long/how involved turning Esparza into BBQ Chilton was.
posted by sparkletone at 8:03 AM on August 21, 2015


Personally, I don't see Dolarhyde surviving next week. I don't think Bryan's going to do the fakeout part. Reba will survive I think, though there's already plenty of emotional trauma and might be more if she has a big hand in Dolarhyde's downfall.

Yes, I assume Reba will survive and Francis won't as usual; I'm just hoping she gets to DO stuff in the ending section this time, as opposed to the way all the other versions make her just a passive helpless part of his getaway plan who happens to escape because he sets it up that way so she can attest to witnessing his "suicide."

Fuller may or may not still do a modified version of the Francis getaway fakeout before he's finally taken down; if so, they'll just substitute a different ending confrontation for the Graham attack. Or maybe they'll go for something entirely different. I just hope Reba gets to do more than sit there during it.
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:16 AM on August 21, 2015


The stuff about Will being Hannibal's "instrument in the world," I think, further supports my theory about what's gonna go down in the finale - the death fakeout will go to Will and Hannibal, with Will then absconding with Hannibal to someplace where neither of them can hurt anyone else. Becoming the Chiyoh to Hannibal's Unnamed Possible Cannibal Guy.

If Will is really convinced he can't avoid Hannibal's influence, his choices are either that, or death. (Or just giving in and going full serial killer, but I still don't think he would, at least not at this point.)
posted by showbiz_liz at 8:41 AM on August 21, 2015 [1 favorite]


That's pretty much where my head's at in terms of the general outline of the end of next week's show. The question for me is how much collateral damage will happen when Will makes his move. As one might guess from earlier comments, I think it will be considerable.
posted by sparkletone at 9:07 AM on August 21, 2015 [1 favorite]


Hannibal and Chilton's conversation was just a laugh riot. "This new article is quantifiably bitchy!" "Sorry, Frederick, your analysis just didn't hold up to scrutiny." "Of course it didn't! I was LYING! On your BEHALF!"

People keep making the foolish mistake of thinking that Hannibal will prioritize his lower level Maslow's hierarchy needs over his higher ones when of course, he's perfectly happy to put his life at risk to keep his prestige level above Chilton's, be the trickster god he envisions himself to be, and generally stir shit up.

When will they grasp that Hannibal can't pass a patch of wet cement without finding some twisted way to write his name in it or resist throwing a pebble into every placid lake he sees? Well, I guess Will is getting it now, but he may also (correctly or incorrectly) think that Hannibal being in love with him gives him a little leverage. So yeah, showbiz liz's scenario, or some variation on it wherein Will finds a love-related or self-sacrificing way to contain Hannibal, is a definite possibility.
posted by FelliniBlank at 10:59 AM on August 21, 2015 [4 favorites]


Hannibal being in love with him gives him a little leverage

I think it gave him an extraordinary amount of leverage for all the good it did anyone in the end. It got Hannibal to expose himself in a way he never would've otherwise. I think that leverage is still there too. Although Hannibal still has some hold on Will, the reverse is way more true. Hannibal didn't surrender for no reason.

But what leverage with Hannibal means is different than it would be for anyone else in existence. You can't exactly stop him from doing what he wants without a lot of care and forethought. He's capricious, vain, etc. He can be impulsive, and in his case that's bad bad bad. Bedelia got a nice, long, close-up look at all of that during their little vacation.

Liz's post is likely right. Will can't bring himself to kill Hannibal even at this late point. Containment in the usual sense, or in this case a very unusual sense (fancy digs in BSHCI), isn't keeping him from doing damage... So what's left. Get him out, get him away. Chain yourself to him forever in return for removing him from a place where he can hurt other people.

Knowing Bryan, that likely wouldn't have worked out well for anyone either, but I can see why from Will's POV that looks like a last desperate option.
posted by sparkletone at 11:10 AM on August 21, 2015 [1 favorite]


Oh. Oh fuck.
posted by showbiz_liz at 11:30 AM on August 21, 2015 [4 favorites]


Yeah, I saw that too. Immediately thought, "Staples!"
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 11:46 AM on August 21, 2015 [3 favorites]


Ha! I actually wrote in my viewing notes at that moment, "Thanks for giving Hannibal staples, Chilton!"
posted by FelliniBlank at 11:46 AM on August 21, 2015


I zaprudered that bit just now and ... Don't see any staples in the binding of the magazine? But maybe they're on the inside or whatever. The spine is clearly visible and seems unbroken by anything.

The bigger problem is where the locks are exactly? As best as I can tell from looking at photos and skimming a couple episodes, Hannibal can't reach them from the outside. We've seen in behind the scenes photos that the individual panes can be opened and I don't think that's just a production affectation (though I'm sure it's useful to them). But as best as I can tell the locks are down at the floor. The best picture I could find was this one from 3x08. Unless Hannibal is secretly the same creature as Eugene Tooms from X-Files (which admittedly would explain the liver with fava beans and a nice chianti), he needs a little helping hand from his favorite little lamb. The only other possibility is somehow knocking the mail box thing over by the wall out and MAYBE reaching down to that one somehow? But that still seems too far to effectively lockpick.

So lock picking is out IMO, but that's not to say Hannibal couldn't do something else with staples if indeed he now has some.
posted by sparkletone at 12:26 PM on August 21, 2015


He doesn't have to pick a door lock, he just has to pull a Gideon and wait until he's in personal restraints and the door is unlocked.
posted by showbiz_liz at 12:27 PM on August 21, 2015 [3 favorites]


wait until he's in personal restraints

They've straight-jacketed him every time so far on top of strapping him to something. He'd have to incapacitate everyone somehow. Gideon was receiving medical attention and was handcuffed to the bed or whatever, but I don't see them replaying that trick again. Gideon was also completely alone with the nurse. I just don't see Alana being as sloppy as Chilton especially not with the actual Ripper.

That he needs help just further points to what we've all said about the possibility of a break out with external help.

Maybe Bryan will do the Dolarhyde death fakeout, but instead of attacking Will's home, he attacks BSHCI for some reason? Will stops him but Hannibal is free and they finally run off together?
posted by sparkletone at 12:30 PM on August 21, 2015


Or I suppose it's possible that in his pissed-offness, Chilton left a pen we can't currently see hooked onto the magazine, which Hannibal will discover next week. Will and Jack may stupidly decide to transport Hannibal out of the hospital next week as part of whatever their big Anti-Francis Plan turns out to be.
posted by FelliniBlank at 12:31 PM on August 21, 2015


Maybe Bryan will do the Dolarhyde death fakeout, but instead of attacking Will's home, he attacks BSHCI for some reason?

Imagine if BSHCI were on fire and Hannibal were locked in there...
posted by showbiz_liz at 12:33 PM on August 21, 2015 [3 favorites]


If Bryan wants to go REALLY bonkers with the Will-containing-Hannibal thing, he could have Will strike a Hannibal+Clarice-type sacrificial bargain: "I'll stay with you and tolerate the wickedness again (and maybe even participate) -- as long as it's ONLY directed at broken dangerous monsters like Francis."

So Season 4 would be a radical departure as promised, but that would be a mighty risky way for Will to attempt to "contain" either Hannibal or his own righteously violent tendencies.
posted by FelliniBlank at 12:34 PM on August 21, 2015 [1 favorite]


It's a little too Dexter for me.
posted by showbiz_liz at 12:36 PM on August 21, 2015 [2 favorites]


My thoughts exactly.

In any case, the real sacrifice here is that Will would be giving up his dogs to go be with Hannibal. That's why he was never really going to run off with him last season, even if Will wasn't so sure about that in his head.
posted by sparkletone at 12:38 PM on August 21, 2015 [1 favorite]


Oh sure, Will. Go ahead, go off to haunt Castle Lecter with your sexy Murder-Companion-Prisoner, and abandon the dogs to tainted Chinese horsemeat!
posted by FelliniBlank at 12:41 PM on August 21, 2015


The dogs, like Molly and Wally, are clearly in danger via association to Will though!

Lot of talk about people as pets in this episode. Will and Bedelia as Hannibal's pets, and Chilton said Will put his hand on his shoulder 'like a pet.' Maybe this will inspire Will to flip the script on Hannibal. "Oh, ok, I know how to deal with a pet!"

I promise I do not mean any of this in a sex way
posted by showbiz_liz at 12:42 PM on August 21, 2015 [1 favorite]


Know where Hannibal was looking up last week? Into the cupola. With its windows into the sky.

Impossible to get up and out, of course

OR IS IT?!?!?????

You know who writes good "Will uses dog training to reform Hannibal porn scenarios? emungere.

forreal though so many of the most insightful and moving character studies in the fandom, the most "that's so crazy I can actually see it working in canon" are written as porn
posted by tel3path at 12:45 PM on August 21, 2015 [3 favorites]


Crossposted with showbiz_liz and proving yet again that great minds think alike. Except mine is filthier
posted by tel3path at 12:46 PM on August 21, 2015 [1 favorite]


I promise I do not mean any of this in a sex way

It's okay. Others will take care of that for you.
posted by sparkletone at 12:46 PM on August 21, 2015 [1 favorite]


It's okay. Others will take care of that for you.

Don't I know it.

Actually, the oddest Hannibal fanfic to me is the AU stuff in which no one is a murderer. Like I saw some gifset where the premise was Will was a single father and Hannibal was his daughter's preschool teacher, and no one was evil, and they fell in normal regular love without anyone being thrown in jail or drugged into oblivion. Like, at that point, is it really Hannigram?
posted by showbiz_liz at 12:51 PM on August 21, 2015 [3 favorites]


i was thinking of Bluebeard when Beverly was killed. That tiny necklace she always wore was? A tiny golden key. And she literally went down into the basement and found the other wives. In some versions of Bluebeard, he's a charming charming man who charms all the sisters by taking them on a picnic and being charming. The last wife is assisted by her sisters in the ending, and finally gets out by summoning her brothers who storm the castle and bust her out. I really felt like they had to be alluding to that version of the story because Beverly couldn't call on her brothers, which was - as Zeller recognized - a contributing factor in her death, and any of her female colleagues you might care to mention were not her allies.

I have to wonder, if there's been no mention of Hannibal's basement yet, why not? Wishful thinking that that best is yet to come? That is a scene that was a throwaway in the books.

If the locks are in the floor, is it possible there's already something to be discovered under Hannibal's cell floor? He's under continuous surveillance so maybe not.
posted by tel3path at 12:55 PM on August 21, 2015 [1 favorite]


The magazine thing (yes, I shouted "for fuck's sake, Chilton, staples!" too) refers to Silence of the Lambs, where it's Chilton's vanity w/r/t Lecter that allows Lecter to escape.

I feel sort of sorry for poor, narcissistic Chilton dwindling by bleeding chunks. If the series had gone on, he would have ended up as a resentful brain in a jar, wouldn't he?
posted by Grangousier at 12:56 PM on August 21, 2015 [7 favorites]


But wait.

They would only be obligated to turn off audio during Hannibal's calls to his lawyer, the video could stay on. I wonder if he's not under continuous video surveillance, maybe?
posted by tel3path at 12:56 PM on August 21, 2015


And tonight in "speculating about stuff I haven't seen" it sounds like Chilton is very grievously injured in a "probably hoping not to survive" kind of way.

All season I've been getting the feeling they're going for broke: screw the ratings, let's get on with the Hannigram and, girls, here's a Deborah Turbeville does Anaïs Nin scene just for you! It's snails! chills! Thrills! Every minute with all Hannigram, all the time!

So... Maybe they really did decide to just go right ahead and kill Chilton this time and the idea that they'd just maim him every season was a fakeout. And/or said in the expectation that they would not get a fourth season really.

I was being crabby earlier, but yeah, you can't kill ALL your female faves when you've got Chilton right there, being a sitting duck.
posted by tel3path at 1:02 PM on August 21, 2015


Like, at that point, is it really Hannigram?

At that point I'd say it's Madsancy?
posted by sparkletone at 1:04 PM on August 21, 2015 [2 favorites]


very grievously injured in a "probably hoping not to survive" kind of way

IMO, he doesn't seem to wish for death or anything in the long term sense, though I can't even begin to imagine the kind of pain he's in (the level of skin burns he suffers is some seriously fucked up shit even with drugs to help the pain, not to mention the Dolarhyde-inflicted wound). He's very, very angry and understandably blames Will, but I don't think Chilton's suicidal.
posted by sparkletone at 1:06 PM on August 21, 2015


And tonight in "speculating about stuff I haven't seen" it sounds like Chilton is very grievously injured in a "probably hoping not to survive" kind of way.

All I'll say is, if they were to ever bring him back, he'd have to sit for makeup longer than your average Trek alien.
posted by showbiz_liz at 1:07 PM on August 21, 2015 [1 favorite]


Hannibal can help him with a skin graft just like that nice one he did for Mason...
posted by sparkletone at 1:20 PM on August 21, 2015 [2 favorites]


At that point I'd say it's Madsancy?

It's not the heat; it's the HughMadsity.
posted by FelliniBlank at 1:24 PM on August 21, 2015 [4 favorites]


I loved how, of all Will's trashtalk in the Tattlecrime article, the thing that really provokes Francis that he harps on to Chilton? Is also the one that's actually true and that Chilton actually did say: "How dare you call me insane!"
posted by FelliniBlank at 1:29 PM on August 21, 2015


Oh hey from Red Dragon:

“Reach behind you, Will Graham … and feel for the small knobs on the top of your pelvis. Feel your spine between them … that is the precise spot … where the Dragon will snap your spine."

Graham kept his hands on the railing. Damn if I’ll feel.


I was wondering about that line!
posted by showbiz_liz at 2:06 PM on August 21, 2015 [2 favorites]


Now that I think about it, I'm really glad Fuller et al. decided to quit with the coy innuendo business (amusing as it can be) and just openly address the deeply-romantic-but-mostly-non-sexual Hannigram love relationship, especially in an interesting nuanced way. Plenty of people have those, but you seldom or never see them portrayed in art/culture or even discussed publicly these days. There are lots of depictions in earlier eras, but a certain amount of that was heavily self-censored/coded portrayal of gay relationships.

In contemporary culture, we have no trouble as a culture understanding sexual relationships (between whoever) that don't include any romantic-love-type dimensions or feelings. But we have no sense that there can be a romantic love relationship without a significant sexual desire component even though we know the whole concept of "romantic love" is a shifting, varying socio-cultural construct rather than an innate emotion, and even though people's lived experiences often demonstrate that they can experience one without the other.
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:37 PM on August 21, 2015 [7 favorites]


Now that I think about it, I'm really glad Fuller et al. decided to quit with the coy innuendo business (amusing as it can be) and just openly address the deeply-romantic-but-mostly-non-sexual Hannigram love relationship, especially in an interesting nuanced way.

I was pretty much stunned by it, because it's just not what you expect to happen. Every single episode this season has increasingly implied that this is a romantic relationship, but there was a certain line that they just weren't crossing, and that a mere handful of years ago they could never have gotten away with crossing.

It's noteworthy that nobody has expressed any feeling that their relationship, such as it is, is abnormal because it's 'queer'. It's abnormal because at least one of the people in the relationship is a cannibalistic serial killer, but the fact that it's two dudes instead of a dude and a lady in this dance of gore and horror is simply not remarked on. And that's what makes it work, for me.
posted by showbiz_liz at 3:05 PM on August 21, 2015 [6 favorites]


i'm just thinking of Alana going "well of course it's normal, there's no family more normal than Margot and me and little Pugsley, are you going to focus on that, or the fact that I've taken to dressing like a goth beach umbrella?"

I mean she looks like Edward Gorey drew her this season
posted by tel3path at 3:49 PM on August 21, 2015 [8 favorites]


Remember how Margot used to dress so hard last season, then seemed to be over it by this season? I figure Alana raided her closets after they got together. "Yeah babe I need to borrow your Steely-Eyed Vengeance outfit. No, the other one. Well YOU'RE not using it, we already killed YOUR arch-nemesis!"
posted by showbiz_liz at 4:09 PM on August 21, 2015 [10 favorites]


It's noteworthy that nobody has expressed any feeling that their relationship, such as it is, is abnormal because it's 'queer'. It's abnormal because at least one of the people in the relationship is a cannibalistic serial killer, but the fact that it's two dudes instead of a dude and a lady in this dance of gore and horror is simply not remarked on. And that's what makes it work, for me.

It's really refreshing to see at least one show on which orientation is a total non-issue. But homophobia does obviously enter into the resistance of some audience members to even seeing this element of the text, let alone embracing it. And that might (or might not) be part of why Fuller decided to state it outright after all?

I mean, the whole "No, no, you can't introduce characters who appear [to me] to be straight and then make them 'go gay' for each other because rules" viewer response one hears in some quarters is pretty fucking gross. So even if it's totally incidental, I LOVE how Will and Bedelia's discussion of Hannigram basically tells the audience, "Oh yes, we DID TOO go all Tumblr on your insecure ass just now. Grow the fuck up and deal with it."
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:18 PM on August 21, 2015 [2 favorites]


I just got accidentally spoiled on Tumblr so here I am to read more about what's going to happen because I am such fucking shipper trash.

Is it tomorrow night yet?
posted by Stacey at 5:44 PM on August 21, 2015 [1 favorite]


Oh noes!
posted by showbiz_liz at 5:44 PM on August 21, 2015


This is why I seek out a terrible quality Canadian livestream, to avoid just this situation
posted by showbiz_liz at 5:45 PM on August 21, 2015


Our friendly sharing neighbors to the north were very slooooooooooooooooooooow this week, like 6 or 7 hours later than usual. (Did people make too many "eh" jokes or were they just too traumatized by Chilton?) I finally said fuck it and went to bed at 12:30.
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:55 PM on August 21, 2015


I AM DEAD AND THIS SHOW KILLED ME


SERIOUSLY I NEEDED TO SIT IN A DARK ROOM AND BREATHE DEEPLY FOR A FEW MINUTES
posted by The Whelk at 6:52 PM on August 21, 2015 [2 favorites]


My totally left field theory of the last episode, based solely on the idea of a very different relationship between will and Hannibal:

Francis dead; Hannibal dead; Will's memory palace wendigo becomes a Hannibal in the same vein as Abigail, but not under Will's control. Season 4 is will as Francis, Hannibal as the great red dragon.
posted by humans are superior! at 7:04 PM on August 21, 2015 [1 favorite]


OH GOD YOU PEOPLE ARE RIGHT WILL IS GONNA FAKE HIS OWN DEATH
posted by The Whelk at 7:08 PM on August 21, 2015


Francis dead; Hannibal dead; Will's memory palace wendigo becomes a Hannibal in the same vein as Abigail, but not under Will's control. Season 4 is will as Francis, Hannibal as the great red dragon.

I would really love some variation on that! If you say you're gonna radically rework the source material and really explore whole new avenues, then do it, Bryan, and no half measures.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:09 PM on August 21, 2015


Oh god and Bedelia just dropping whatever veil she had on and doing what she does best, telling the truth, but now with MALICIOUS GLEE

THOUGHT YOU WERE BETTER THEN ME WILL? WHOS PARTICIPATING NOW.
posted by The Whelk at 7:13 PM on August 21, 2015 [5 favorites]


Is it tomorrow night yet?

Seriously. NOT READING ANY BIG, INTERESTING-LOOKING COMMENTS. I WILL BE STRONG.
posted by ubersturm at 7:14 PM on August 21, 2015


Will's indifferent response to what happens to Chilton, and Bedelia's theory about it are pretty disquieting, because if she's right, he is definitely no longer the "righteously violent" version of Will that we have known for 2.9 seasons.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:18 PM on August 21, 2015


Here's how Will's reaction to Freddy's death goes down in the books:

With strobe lights flashing in his face, he told the press he was "grieved at the loss of his friend Frederick Lounds." He was going to the funeral, too. So were a number of federal agents and police, in the hope that the killer would come to see Graham grieve. Actually he felt nothing he could name, just cold nausea and an occasional wave of sickly exhilaration that he had not burned to death instead of Lounds. It seemed to Graham that he had learned nothing in forty years: he had just gotten tired.

Then Hannibal writes him a letter saying "A brief note of congratulations for the job you did on Mr. Lounds. I admired it enormously. What a cunning boy you are!"

Then: for a half-second he wondered if Lecter might be a little bit right in the case of Freddy Lounds. The enemy inside Graham agreed with any accusation. He had put his hand on Freddy's shoulder in the Tattler photograph to establish that he really had told Freddy those insulting things about the Dragon. Or had he wanted to put Freddy at risk, just a little? He wondered. The certain knowledge that he would not knowingly miss a chance at the Dragon reprieved him.

"The certain knowledge that he would not knowingly miss a chance at the Dragon reprieved him." That's the bit I'm wondering about with respect to the show. What motivation would Show Will have for throwing that shot away? He certainly doesn't hate Chilton more than he hates the Dragon.

Show dialogue:

I put my hand on his shoulder for authenticity.
To establish that he really told you those insults about the Dragon? Or maybe you wanted to put Dr. Chilton at risk? Just a little?
I wonder.
Do you have to wonder?
No.
What did you think the Great Red Dragon would do? You were curious what would happen, that's apparent. Is this what you were expecting?
I can't say I'm surprised.
Then you may as well have struck the match. That's participation.


The "just a little" makes it make more sense to me - if he did do it on purpose, I don't think it can have been a conscious impulse.

But my question is: is Will being Hannibal'd by Bedelia into just thinking he's responsible? And what the hell kind of game is Bedelia playing here? Just curious too?
posted by showbiz_liz at 8:02 PM on August 21, 2015 [1 favorite]


But my question is: is Will being Hannibal'd by Bedelia into just thinking he's responsible? And what the hell kind of game is Bedelia playing here? Just curious too?

I wonder about that too. Just the other week she was telling Will the thing I think is true: that he doesn't really have that idly malicious Hannibal Jr. type capability as he often fears he does, as Hannibal tries to convince him he does. It seems weird that Bedelia would change her tune based on the thing with Chilton. She's such a damn cypher and Will sort of loathes her anyway, so why would he even continue this bizarre therapeutic relationship or whatever with her?
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:16 PM on August 21, 2015


Oh, Will has a reason - who the hell else can he talk to about this? Who else could relate?
posted by showbiz_liz at 8:20 PM on August 21, 2015


God I feel like I need to watch a cartoon about singing flowers or something now
posted by The Whelk at 8:24 PM on August 21, 2015 [3 favorites]


She's also the only way he can figure out what Hannibal's deal is, as she's the only person who spent a long time with him knowing exactly what he was.
posted by The Whelk at 8:28 PM on August 21, 2015 [1 favorite]


Yeah. She's the other Bluebeard's Wife. Alana's not going to have any insights beyond GET THE FUCK AWAY FROM ALL THIS, which is a non-option from his POV.
posted by sparkletone at 8:31 PM on August 21, 2015


Oh, Will has a reason - who the hell else can he talk to about this? Who else could relate?

Sure, but he'll probably pay for playing with her.
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:39 PM on August 21, 2015 [1 favorite]


You know, I 100% do not believe this will happen, nor do I really think it would work... but if Fuller knew his ass was cancelled and decided, you know what, fuck it, let's just have Will and Hannibal literally make out next episode, this would be a finale for the ages.
posted by showbiz_liz at 9:58 PM on August 21, 2015 [10 favorites]


We wrap up the entire red dragon storyline in ten minutes before the titles and then just REALLY ANGRY MAKING OUT for the entire runtime.
posted by The Whelk at 10:10 PM on August 21, 2015 [8 favorites]


Gah I'm still riled up about that uh ...kiss with teeth.
posted by The Whelk at 10:30 PM on August 21, 2015


I saw my reflection in the monitor right when that happened, dramatic reenactment
posted by showbiz_liz at 11:09 PM on August 21, 2015 [3 favorites]


Interestingly, both Bedelia and Hannibal are gleeful this episode, Hannibal can't contain his sincere joy in EATING CHILTON'S LIP much to the nauseated horror of everyone around him (I'll have to see it again, But Jack seems like actually nauseated by a happy cannibal while Alana is more firm jaw vengeance face) while Bedelia gets to RUB IT IN WILL'S SELF RIGHTEOUS HIGH HORSE FACE ONE MORE TIME, oh yeah you think you're better then me, less involved in this? Let me tell you EXACTLY WHATS GOING ON THAT YOU CANT ADMIT. seriously she saw this coming in Season One, Bedelia's I TOLD YOU SO FACE is the best face.

Also , the highest triumph for Francis, the Dragon at the top of his power. The forces of evil are winning, triumphant, nothing can stop them.

Except ...the wrath ...of the lamb.

(And furious make outs)
posted by The Whelk at 11:17 PM on August 21, 2015


And yeah they totally telegraph the ticking clock as landmark thing for Reba from the novel.
posted by The Whelk at 11:17 PM on August 21, 2015


Hannibal can't contain his sincere joy in EATING CHILTON'S LIP much to the nauseated horror of everyone around him

Best part is, he did that for no other reason except to horrify people. I mean, he doesn't eat raw people, he cooks them into recognizable food. That is a piece of raw skin that's been sitting in a room-temp envelope for god knows how long.

Wild horse finale prediction, Hannibal gets horrible food poisoning from that stunt and just sort of sleeps and barfs the whole time.
posted by showbiz_liz at 11:24 PM on August 21, 2015 [8 favorites]


I still think the key to reading Bedelia is that she's the smartest character on the show, she's not ruled by passion or lust or inner art murder dragon desires, she's does her best to get out of bad situation and takes effort to protect herself and find escape hatches. She's ...curious about art murder, maybe more then a little seduced by the power, but always with one foot out the door the instant it threatens her.

Like the turning point is being his Bride in Italty and realizing that A) he's not actually a vampire King and B) he's hopelessly in love with some dude who can't even see what's in front of him and is just some guy.

To Bedelia, Hannibal is a disappointment.
posted by The Whelk at 11:26 PM on August 21, 2015 [14 favorites]


And yeah he's totally eating the lip to sure up his reputation as a Horrible monster God right after Frederick tells him he'll eventually be transferred to the gen ward and ...raped. Eating his raw lip is like beating someone up his first day to no one messes with him.
posted by The Whelk at 11:28 PM on August 21, 2015 [2 favorites]


Best
posted by showbiz_liz at 11:32 PM on August 21, 2015


What's ever do you mean our show has no subtext at all it's just one sweaty nearly naked guy with a camera compelling a naked guy trapped in a chair to do and say stuff what this is network TV get your mind out of the gutter sheesh
posted by The Whelk at 11:36 PM on August 21, 2015 [2 favorites]


Okay it just hit me that, like Alana's whole thing is keeping people contained in rooms? She is literally performing compartmentalization. I'm pretty sure I read that here and it just flew over my head until I realized how much she likes locking people in little rooms.
posted by The Whelk at 3:05 PM on August 22, 2015 [1 favorite]


It's happening!!!
posted by Pendragon at 6:48 PM on August 22, 2015 [5 favorites]


I promised people on Facebook that this episode contains possibly the goriest thing ever on network TV and now I'm worried I may have oversold it but honestly I don't think so
posted by showbiz_liz at 6:56 PM on August 22, 2015


It would be wrong to selectively murder some NBC folks who decided to preempt Hannibal with football in NYC markets?

Like that's wrong, right?
posted by The Whelk at 7:06 PM on August 22, 2015 [1 favorite]


Sportsball should NEVER take the place of murderhusbands.
posted by bitter-girl.com at 7:23 PM on August 22, 2015 [1 favorite]


I love Chilton's fussy little oxblood leather gloves. I may get them.
posted by The Whelk at 7:50 PM on August 22, 2015


God, I didn't realize just how closely Bedelia's comments to Will in this ep and 3x10 match Hannibal's in Antipasto, from the Dante lecture through the "participation" stuff with Dimmond. Creeeee. py. Will is clearly not Hannibal's only form of agency in the world.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:53 PM on August 22, 2015 [1 favorite]


Apparently the SEE scene was what caused half the crew to like, flee the set.
posted by The Whelk at 7:54 PM on August 22, 2015 [5 favorites]


God, just the acting chops in this scene, Chilton is so, so, fucking terrified, he's making like tortured bird noises, like a wild animal.
posted by The Whelk at 7:56 PM on August 22, 2015 [1 favorite]


Other than the couch crawling, the uber scary part of that sequence for me is the very beginning, when Chilton is totally disoriented and just trying to figure out where he is, and Francis is moving around behind him, murmuring stuff. Especially when Chilton is trying to figure out why his skin hurts and wonders if he was burned . . . . and then Francis muses, "Burned . . . . . . burned" and that's where he formulates the ideas for his next step(s).
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:02 PM on August 22, 2015 [2 favorites]


The show does this a lot of it but the delaying of what Chilton said in camera, cutting to the future when it was done and then getting the watch it as Will/Jack eat watches for the first time is a great example of how to use the ability of film and editing to shape time to shape and emphasis emotional moments, always pick the moment of peak intensity and avoid retreading. This show is really a master class in how to structure a filmed thriller.
posted by The Whelk at 8:20 PM on August 22, 2015 [3 favorites]


Some of that POV switching is from being adapted from a book but A) long form TV has more in common with prose structure and B) a lot of the very early editing stuff, setting down film grammar, came from prose fiction.
posted by The Whelk at 8:28 PM on August 22, 2015


Honestly.
posted by sparkletone at 8:33 PM on August 22, 2015 [8 favorites]


You know, I 100% do not believe this will happen, nor do I really think it would work... but if Fuller knew his ass was cancelled and decided, you know what, fuck it, let's just have Will and Hannibal literally make out next episode, this would be a finale for the ages.

OK, about finale snogging, etc., you may or may not want to read this Twitter exchange.
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:34 PM on August 22, 2015


JUST FORTY MINUTES OF ANGRY MAKING OUT THATS ALL I ASK.
posted by The Whelk at 8:36 PM on August 22, 2015 [4 favorites]


ITS NEVER BEEN MORE POSSIBLE
posted by The Whelk at 8:40 PM on August 22, 2015 [1 favorite]


Hell, one respectable soul kiss would probably crash the fucking Internet.
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:41 PM on August 22, 2015


Anyone else notice how Chilton's lips were framed by the hole in Hannibal's glass cage wall?
posted by The Whelk at 8:42 PM on August 22, 2015 [1 favorite]


It was like a bullseye
posted by The Whelk at 8:43 PM on August 22, 2015 [2 favorites]


JUST ONE KISS, IT DOESNT EVEN HAVE TO BE BIG , THIER LIPS BRUSH FOR AN AWKWARDLY LONG TIME AND THEY BREATHE EACH OTHER'S BREATH DURING ONE OF THOSE TIGHT, LONG EMBRACES THEY LOVE TO HAVE .
posted by The Whelk at 8:46 PM on August 22, 2015 [2 favorites]


[chiyohvoice] you've given that some... thought
posted by showbiz_liz at 9:12 PM on August 22, 2015 [1 favorite]


It's been three seasons. They owe me making out.
posted by The Whelk at 9:14 PM on August 22, 2015


If there isn't a recreation of this moment with Will instead of Clarice, it will be three years wasted.
posted by crossoverman at 10:01 PM on August 22, 2015


We already kind of got that one, from a distance.
posted by FelliniBlank at 10:02 PM on August 22, 2015


OH YEAH. I forgot.
posted by crossoverman at 10:04 PM on August 22, 2015


Angry making out it is, then.
posted by crossoverman at 10:05 PM on August 22, 2015


I can't be the only person who figures Will's homemade dog food is people, right?
posted by kittens for breakfast at 10:07 PM on August 22, 2015 [3 favorites]


But local people, not people from China.
posted by FelliniBlank at 10:26 PM on August 22, 2015 [1 favorite]


This is a local shop for local people.
posted by The Whelk at 10:28 PM on August 22, 2015 [4 favorites]


I can't be the only person who figures Will's homemade dog food is people, right?

We see Will making it in 2x12. It's just turkey. Literal, actual turkey. It's one of my favorite cooking montages!
posted by sparkletone at 10:29 PM on August 22, 2015


The whole thing with Reba interrupting D. and Chilton with soup was hilarious. The look on Chilton's face.

And now he doesn't have a face. Poor Frederick.
posted by homunculus at 11:49 PM on August 22, 2015 [1 favorite]


He wanted everyone to see his face

And now he doesn't have one


Oh he BEDELIA
posted by The Whelk at 11:53 PM on August 22, 2015


OK, so on rewatch, I think the clock and vase of flowers in Francis's house just mark Reba's escape pathway for when the thing happens that she needs to escape from. I was kind of hoping to see, if not a bigass fireplace poker, then a nice hefty brass Wonderfalls monkey or small tasteful anvil or perhaps a strategically placed gherkin fork like the one on Mr. Robot. Because I don't just want her to get away; I also want her to give him a fucking subdural hematoma or otherwise mess him up en route.

Even after all the terrible offscreen and now brutal onscreen stuff the Dragon has done, weirdly enough, the one that shocked and pissed me off the most is saying "Shut up" to Reba. Twice! That's just plain rude!
posted by FelliniBlank at 12:09 AM on August 23, 2015 [1 favorite]


[Episode number fixed]
posted by taz at 12:09 AM on August 23, 2015


So I remember all the anticipation of what would happen when they reached freddies death, cause they already used it as the feint. And they just revisit it. But it's more now because chilton is will's pet. And he's paying for will's lies. Not just in the article but when will lied to Hannibal. How can you even do an homage, then rip the original while enhancing it?

and Armitage's do you see? It's the pained cry for understanding, a soul built on a million small betrayals.
posted by 0bs01337 at 12:43 AM on August 23, 2015 [2 favorites]


Sepinwall and The AV Club both quite liked this episode.
posted by sparkletone at 2:47 AM on August 23, 2015




Good gravy @_@

Looks like Hanni's trial is still ongoing since his insanity defense is endangered by the paper he wrote. He could be officially insane without (yet) being found not guilty by that reason. Guess that answers the whingers who say "but that's not how the insanity defense works" well, Alana and Chilton know how it works and they know what to say to make it work the way they want it to.

But more importantly @_@ the unperturbedness of everyone at the suggestion they set Chilton up.

They ALL know they're setting him up to draw the Red Dragon's fire and be killed instead of them.

And once again, Alana's overt enjoyment at setting Chilton up for suffering. This has not changed. Last season, she made fun of him for getting vivisected and I thought it was an indication of something very dark in her moral character. Granted that Chilton brought his situation on himself, I couldn't and can't imagine Will making fun of someone's horrifying trauma like that. Her smugness. I've gone back to not liking her, but what's the others' excuse? Chilton's annoying to them, but I don't think they actually hate him, they're more just contemptuous and dismissive.

This proves another thing about Chilton, too - that at all times, he thought he was helping. He thought he was helping Gideon become the coolest murderer in town, he thought he was helping Hannibal get the defense he wanted. Not that that's an excuse for anything, Chilton is for Chilton, but I think he's the least malicious character in the show right now. He goes for (what he thinks is) the win-win every time. Whatever his virtues are or not, you can't say he holds a grudge.
posted by tel3path at 2:51 PM on August 23, 2015 [2 favorites]


While Will was rewording Chilton's profile for the Tattler, I felt that Chilton was having a moment of empathizing with the Tooth Fairy every time and, being unused to it, it unsettled him.
posted by tel3path at 2:54 PM on August 23, 2015 [3 favorites]


What the heck is WRONG with these people. That was like watching the gulling of Malvolio.
posted by tel3path at 2:55 PM on August 23, 2015 [1 favorite]


So, in S1 Will was the guy people paid to do their dirty work and then scapegoated.

In S3 Chilton is that guy.
posted by tel3path at 2:58 PM on August 23, 2015 [1 favorite]


I'm not sure I like the acting in the "glued to wheelchair" scene. Kind of too big for the frame.

In Manhunter, what really moved me was that Freddy Lounds reacted with dignity in this scene. And he finally understood. Chilton doesn't understand, because it's all way over his head. He must be the least capable of holding his own against a serial killer of all the characters ever.
posted by tel3path at 3:05 PM on August 23, 2015 [1 favorite]


That's some fabulous robe the Dragon has got on. Is it a dragonfly print or what. Constructivist meets Art Deco? I can't see as well as I'd like.
posted by tel3path at 3:09 PM on August 23, 2015


Okay, here's where I start to admire Chilton a little bit. This is where he finds his dignity.

If you make a sound, I will kill -her-. Not you. Her.

And he doesn't make a sound.

She turns her head in Chilton's direction as if she thinks there could be something there to hear. But he hasn't made a sound.
posted by tel3path at 3:23 PM on August 23, 2015 [3 favorites]


um wow

that lip lock was extremely gruesome

in case you hadn't noticed.
posted by tel3path at 3:30 PM on August 23, 2015 [1 favorite]


So, Alana trying to pull the "technically, you killed him" thing with Chilton? By refuting his article?

For all the good it'll do, I'm glad someone finally told her off for setting her enemies up to die. I wish someone had done it the other times, but all we got was an allusion.

I extra hate Alana for enjoying the anticipation so much and then trying to pin it on Hannibal *and failing*. Someone around here said you can't generally go wrong blaming Hannibal for things that go wrong when Hannibal is around. But of all the things that *can't* be pinned on Hannibal directly, they had to pick this one.

UGH though. It's as others said, Jack is not even pretending that he doesn't demand sacrifices any more. (He thinks he's God? God sorted out the whole thing of human sacrifices, and why he doesn't want them, with Abraham and Isaac. Jack's a really crummy excuse for a God.)

And as for Will - I expected better. Shame on you, Will. shame. on. you. Chilton outperformed you here - he didn't move, lest the Dragon kill her. I hope this becomes known.
posted by tel3path at 3:42 PM on August 23, 2015


In the book, Will readily accepted blame for Freddy's death, and Hannibal gleefully pushed that button. But it was ambiguous at best whether he actually had intended that outcome and the interpretation "hand on shoulder = pet" was really dubious. I never accepted that book!Will had set Freddie up at all.

They're uncharacteristically chucking away any ambiguity here and they're speaking a lot of things that have been unspoken for a long time. "Is Hannibal in love with me" is just one thing among many.
posted by tel3path at 3:50 PM on August 23, 2015


And making the interpretation that explicit when we could have worked it out - Jack is God, etc - they don't do stuff like that. I wonder if it's misdirection and Jack is wrong.

Wow, they really didn't flinch from showing violence against Chilton. They showed the consequences - to him. Chilton's suffering, when it comes, is never a joke. We forget about it because of how resilient he is - and because he usually sets himself up. I'd say it was like JusticeWorld off Red Dwarf, where you try to do something bad and the consequences boomerang back on you, but he actually got off relatively lightly in S1, and even in S2. This time he was set up by others, so that's why this scene has a gravity the others have not had (not that we were happy to see Chilton shot, but up until that moment it was played for laughs).
posted by tel3path at 3:57 PM on August 23, 2015


Oh dear. I had been hoping to avoid this scene with Reba.

drat.

In Reba's place I would probably say something stupid like "Oh Francis, you're not the Dragon. You're better than that. You have the potential to aim higher."

And then I'd probably end up like Chilton.

geeeeeeeez you guys, not funny
posted by tel3path at 4:03 PM on August 23, 2015


Of course - that was Will following Bedelia's suggestion to crush the weakling.

It doesn't seem like he's got a taste for it. He was not proud to see what he'd done. Also, in session with Bedelia, when he talked about authenticity, he sounded like Chilton. Then moments later he sounded *distinctly* like Bedelia.

Well, I hope Alana enjoyed her Chilton snuff movie, since it's just what she's always wanted. How happy she must be.

Jack - again, may I say you are a shitty excuse for a God and you just think you're God.

GOD IS ACTUALLY POWERFUL, FOR ONE THING, UNLIKE YOU JACK.
posted by tel3path at 4:07 PM on August 23, 2015


I'm glad Margot is the one at home with the baby, because - despite being ruthless when she's desperate - she doesn't seem to have a mean bone in her body.

Saying "wait till your mother gets home" must be a substantial threat in the Bloom-Verger family. It must be like Night Vale in that house.
posted by tel3path at 4:45 PM on August 23, 2015 [5 favorites]


not that we were happy to see Chilton shot, but up until that moment it was played for laughs

It's all fun and games until someone gets hurt.

I don't think the show is significantly less ambiguous than the book when it comes to who is to blame for someone being maimed by the Dragon at this point. In both the plan is to draw out Dolarhyde by very, very deliberately poking at what they are pretty sure is something that will enrage him like nothing else. They know they're (pardon me) playing with fire in both versions, and in a bit of desperation decide to go with one of the Jack-iest ideas ever. They figure aiming the coming attack at one of them will be better than letting another family die.

You're being too hard on Alana. Alana's learned by now that once these two get a Plan™ in their head, there's little that will stop them, certainly not her. She spent most of last season flailing around trying to get them to stop what they were doing even if she didn't totally understand what that actually was till near the end. Hell, the FBI couldn't stop them even after they made Jack turn in his badge and gun. My recollection is she didn't want Will dragged back into this any more than he did a few episodes ago, and yet here we are. She doesn't get in the way because why fucking bother. She's got an asylum to run. But happy? No. No one is happy at the end of this episode except Hannibal (but then he is the happiest motherfucker in the history of giddy shitheads this week).

What the show's not at all ambiguous about is whether or not Will blames himself and how punishing the guilt he feels is. Bedelia pushes that button because she is, as ever, the teller of truths no one wants to hear. Will fucked up and someone else paid for it. He's got reason to be mad at himself, he's got reason to be mad at Jack, he's got endless reasons to be mad at Hannibal. What happens with the wrath of that particular lamb we'll find out, but I don't think Alana deserves as much of it as many of the other characters. Bedelia quite rightly points out that one way or another Hannibal's got them all dancing to his tune again, Will most of all given what effect Hannibal's meddling in this case has had.
posted by sparkletone at 6:47 PM on August 23, 2015 [2 favorites]


In a previous thread I expressed my wish that this show use music from an opera about Bluebeard:

I want to hear Door 5 from A kékszakállú herceg vára (Bluebeard’s Castle) by Béla Bartók when we get to Hannibal’s murder basement or something similar. This is the reveal of Bluebeard’s kingdom and has the greatest tension of the opera; will Judith keep exploring, keep probing or will she let Bluebeard alone and love him as he is. (performance). I would not complain if we got Door 1 (the torture chamber) but that music is less traditional. Door 7 (revealing the wives) would also be a possiblity. But I’d really like to see something from this opera used, and these last two episodes should be where they would fit the best.
posted by mountmccabe at 10:29 PM on August 23, 2015 [4 favorites]


Kudos to Dancy for the hand work he does in this episode, Will is at his darkest breaking point so he starts doing all these body posture and HAND THINGS he never would've done before, in conversation with BEDELIA he's both an exposed nerve and trying hard not to react. Everything is so unbalanced, everything is rushing toward a result, it's why I'm not as hard on Alana, she's clearly taken the position of Whatever It Takes , if Chilton is collateral damage? So be it. They tried not going all the way before and it didn't work, she's "dead" now, reborn dead, a coffin birth, and the only thing that matters is keeping Hammibal from acting in the outside world.

As for home life, I'm sure Margot is a loving warm wonderful caregiver with flowing silk robes and lots of hair and Alana comes home and just sits rock still in a chair in the east wing drinking a bottle of scotch, or maybe she compare elites, that's kind of her thing.

But yeah the fact that everyone just agreed Chilton, because he's vain and silly and smug, DOESNT ACTUALLY MATTER IF HE GETS HURT, was pretty damnilike I think it's on purpose. No one is getting out of this with their soul intact.
posted by The Whelk at 11:55 PM on August 23, 2015


Like it's telling that Will is the only one who seems to really bad and question if he set Chilton up to be tortured and if that was on purpose, everyone else just seemed to think its collateral damage but Will was once collateral scapegoat damage ......but then Bedelia turns it around on him, cause she's doing a perversion of confession, and saying, no, you wanted this to happen, this was your plan all along, you're urge no different then Hanmibal, and you're not any different then me.

Man it IS CULTY AND WERID.
posted by The Whelk at 12:01 AM on August 24, 2015 [2 favorites]


Also I kind of think Bedelia is like, throwing Hannibal at Will and vice versa so she'll be off the radar and safe, like here, have your obsession toy, I'm going to be over here, being alive.
posted by The Whelk at 12:04 AM on August 24, 2015 [8 favorites]


That's kind of my read also and, like, I can't blame her exactly. And it's not like anyone else is coming at Will with the ~real talk~ about what's going on with him in this arc.
posted by sparkletone at 12:35 AM on August 24, 2015


I am just wondering where this actually got them. Jack was going "Will is the Lamb of God" so was expecting to sacrifice Will at first until Will tagged Chilton.

Now as usual, they have almost no more answers than when they started. Hannibal still has just as much agency in the world as he did before, indeed, eliminating Chilton seems to be a good fit with his plans, so if the idea was "must do whatever it takes to kibosh Hannibal's agency in the world" - and if that meant sacrificing Will - they still haven't done it.

what even was their mission here? catch the Red Dragon or abolish Hannibal's agency in the world? if it's really the latter, then arranging to have a colleague she despises killled, that she's set up on two previous occasions, was never going to be anything but a self-indulgent detour from the real mission.

They're all guilty as hell, but I'm harder on Alana because of the way she was smirking at Chilton in obvious gleeful anticipation of his being harmed - and because this isn't the first time she's done this. Since she's now so lucid about having her opponents killed, why is she dicking around with these middlemen instead of going for the Big Bad, who moreover she worked so hard to get complete control of?
posted by tel3path at 1:05 AM on August 24, 2015


Jack was going "Will is the Lamb of God" so was expecting to sacrifice Will at first until Will tagged Chilton.

Jack's already demanded his sacrifice from Will. He's given up on sanity again, his family's been put in danger. This has gone about as terribly as one could figure from the moment Jack rolled up to Will's cabin.

But I also think that conversation was ... duplicitous isn't quite the right word. But Hannibal was calling Jack's hubris out (the bit about righteousness) and saying that Will is getting to be quite dangerous once again. Jack's incredulous and just kind of, "Oh yeah, that's what you think huh?" through the whole thing. I don't believe for a second that Hannibal sees himself as Satan bound or otherwise anymore than he ever has. If anything there's a, "Oh, you think you're god, oh ho ho ho ho" quality to him here.

In his own way terrible, unhelpful, openly villainous way he's issuing warnings. "Will's approaching a breaking point, your hubris is considerable and you still don't care about collateral damage in any of this."

Jack saying his conscience is as clear as Hannibal's is pretty damning and a gigantic warning sign that this isn't going to go well. Even if Jack's conscience is still clear by the time credits roll, it's beyond clear that Will's definitely isn't.

I still don't really see the villainy of Alana here. She doesn't halt the train wreck. She doesn't hop on board the train either. She smiles at Chilton after his tirade because there's no way his yelling at Hannibal had to be incredibly audible from where she was standing. I'm sure she finds his anger at Hannibal's fuckery almost as amusing as Hannibal does. But that doesn't mean she wants him literally dead. Why on earth would she? He poses no threat to anyone or anything the way things stood before this episode and post-BBQ Chilton isn't going to be a bother to anyone but maybe his nurses for quite a long time.

We don't get a look at her reaction to the Kiss, but as they're starting to watch the video she looks sick to her stomach before looking over at Will with a look of genuine concern. Jack's colder expression is much more concerning.

Side note: I'm really curious as to what Chilton wrote when he personalized Hannibal's copy of his book...

what even was their mission here?

To draw the Dragon out so they can catch him. They still don't know much about him beyond the sketch Will was able to produce based on the museum encounter and what they've gleaned from profiling him. They want him to come at Will, like in the book, but they mistake how Dolarhyde will react and a (relative) innocent gets charbroiled and then some for it. Their plan went about as badly as their plans have in the past because hahahaha, of course they do and always will.
posted by sparkletone at 1:48 AM on August 24, 2015 [5 favorites]


It's really pretty hilarious that they're all blaming Hannibal for the one thing he can't really be fairly blamed for (Chilton) except as some vague initial moving force. Yes, he does poison everything, etc., but it was super weird when Will said to Jack at the hospital that Hannibal told the Dragon to go after Chilton. Um, no he didn't; Will did by marking Chilton as his pet. Hannibal had nothing at all to do with orchestrating the specifics of that except perhaps by incidentally making Chilton a bit more insecure than usual. So it seems that Will has bought Bedelia's line that he's Hannibal's agent in the world or has at least been convinced to use that as an excuse or rationalization.

The other really chilling thing is that right after Will freaks out hearing Chilton scream in the Dragon Kiss video and puts his head down, he is drawn (seemingly almost against his will) to look at the screen again. I don't know if that's him forcing himself to look at the thing he doesn't want to look as a punishment or, more likely?, his "curious what will happen" impulse making him more interested in seeing the result of his experiment than horrified by Chilton's suffering. It's very much like the typical audience reaction to this or other horror movie type imagery. So Will's complicit, and we're complicit with Will. Everybody's participating!
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:52 AM on August 24, 2015 [1 favorite]


Also I kind of think Bedelia is like, throwing Hannibal at Will and vice versa so she'll be off the radar and safe, like here, have your obsession toy, I'm going to be over here, being alive.

Oh, absolutely. I think she was doing this in Florence as well, though I'd need to go back and rewatch their scenes.
posted by showbiz_liz at 8:12 AM on August 24, 2015


I am just wondering where this actually got them.

Well, how many blind black women named Reba can there possibly be? Finding her is how they'll find him. So really, worked out great!
posted by showbiz_liz at 8:15 AM on August 24, 2015 [2 favorites]


Oh, by the way, have we all seen this?
posted by showbiz_liz at 8:17 AM on August 24, 2015 [4 favorites]


Oh, by the way, have we all seen this?

Bryan said much the same thing to someone. I think FelliniBlank linked somewhere in here?
posted by sparkletone at 9:13 AM on August 24, 2015


My goodness, Martha's comment is less cagey than Bryan's was (but then she's been openly salivating over Armitage for weeks, so she clearly relates to fan viewpoints). There's also Don Mancini's podcast remark that the "hot romantic" vibe between Will and Hannibal would become more and more overt starting in Ep. 10, which was where Bedelia began to drop all the really blatant "passion" "old flame" "does your wife know?" grenades.
posted by FelliniBlank at 10:03 AM on August 24, 2015


In short, they've pretty much crossed the Rubicon at this point, and god help them if they're just (uncharacteristically) baiting the core fanbase since they surely know The Wrath of Tumblr is a lot fiercer than The Wrath of Some Lamb.
posted by FelliniBlank at 10:08 AM on August 24, 2015 [1 favorite]


And of course, they could easily see a ratings and trending bump from this that would make all the potential new homes for the show sit up and take notice, which Fuller kind of alluded to a while back.
posted by FelliniBlank at 10:11 AM on August 24, 2015


In his own way terrible, unhelpful, openly villainous way he's issuing warnings. "Will's approaching a breaking point, your hubris is considerable and you still don't care about collateral damage in any of this."

Good point -- he's been doing that throughout this arc. And man, when Hannibal is the one person in the whole group around you who is MOST genuinely concerned for your welfare, you (and everyone else, probably) are well and truly fucked.
posted by FelliniBlank at 10:21 AM on August 24, 2015 [1 favorite]


NONSTOP MAKING OUT

I BELIEVE IN YOU SHOW
posted by The Whelk at 10:40 AM on August 24, 2015 [2 favorites]


Well, they need for Will to track down Francis (either from the Reba clue or from Chilton noticing that Francis has pre-murder vacation photos of the dead women?), but they could do that in 5 minutes if they skip the whole fakeout and just have Will or someone shoot him in the head as he steps out of the house. Then that leaves 36-37 minutes for heavy petting.
posted by FelliniBlank at 10:59 AM on August 24, 2015


One by one, the other characters walk in, have a couple seconds of reaction shot time, and walk out. Price and Zeller stick around to watch for a minute until Alana yanks them back out again.
posted by showbiz_liz at 11:04 AM on August 24, 2015 [2 favorites]


The final shots: Everyone has finally left in disgust. The camera pans up a bit, sliding the madly embracing couple out of view. In a shadowy corner of the room stands both the Ravenstag and the Wendigo. Cut to close on the two. The Wendigo pats the stag on the shoulder as it opens its mouth. Unearthly, unintelligible whispering issues from its open, unmoving face.

Subtitles: That'll do, stag. That'll do.

FIN.
posted by sparkletone at 11:42 AM on August 24, 2015 [1 favorite]


Just caught up with this episode and the last one. Haven't read this thread yet. Before I do, I just have to say:

THIS FUCKING SHOW.

I started binge watching this show a few months back because I heard it was about this guy Will Graham* and his homoerotic relationship with Hannibal, and I was like, let's give this one a go.** And boy has it delivered. BUT then this episode:

Is Hannibal in love with me?

HELL YES HE'S YOUR MURDER HUSBAND.

I can't believe they actually went there. Just threw all the cards down on the table.

THIS FUCKING SHOW.

<3 HANNIGRAM 4EVER <3

*Funny story, having never read or watched any previous parts of the Hannibal canon, I didn't even know whether Will Graham was made up for this show or not. (Of course, now I get that he wasn't.) All I knew was Hannibal is a cannibal, there's some chick named Clarice who talks to him, and there was some movie named the Red Dragon. Oh, and I think I heard something about some guy in Silence of the Lambs who skins women or something? For the longest time I thought that was Hannibal, but now I realize that it must have been some other character.

**What does it say about me that this is why I started watching the show? Probably something weird and disturbing, but whatever, I'll take it, because I love this show.
posted by litera scripta manet at 12:09 PM on August 24, 2015 [7 favorites]


Yay! I love it when new people come in. (I will probably be trying to make people watch my DVDs of this show for the rest of time.)

I personally started watching after season 1 was over, after seeing all the insane fan stuff on Tumblr. "How funny," I thought, "there's a fan meme that Hannibal Lecter wants to be totes BFFs with this FBI guy! Wonder what the show is REALLY about though."

lol.
posted by showbiz_liz at 1:33 PM on August 24, 2015 [3 favorites]


By the way - being a new fan, you may have missed this utterly insane megapost we collectively made near the end of last season, before FanFare was open, merely so we would have a place to discuss the final episodes. We had a google doc and everything.
posted by showbiz_liz at 1:36 PM on August 24, 2015 [5 favorites]


Hello new best friend litera scripts mind. Speaking of insane megaposts, see my next comment in 3, 2, 1...
posted by tel3path at 1:51 PM on August 24, 2015


Wow, I totally missed that post, which I guess isn't that surprising since that was more than a year before I started watching the show. I can't wait to dive in! Should keep me busy until the final episode airs later this week. Well, final episode for now. Hopefully.

Seriously, please, someone pick up the rights to this show. I'll take a movie, shortened season, play, radio program, improv comedy routine, anything. I'm not picky.
posted by litera scripta manet at 1:54 PM on August 24, 2015 [1 favorite]


I was being sarky when I asked what their mission was. Only not. I know full well that their stated mission was to provoke the Dragon into revealing themselves.

I also know that the way they did it was by putting Chilton up to get killed or injured, and when that outcome happened it was no surprise to any of them. My question is, what actually was the point of that other than to harm Chilton? By pure and unaccustomed luck, the killer's distinctively blind black girlfriend decided to come round and talk about their relationship while Chilton was there, but that's not the kind of luck they usually have. And that only worked because Chilton chose to put someone else's safety before his own, something I can't believe any of them would have predicted in a million years.

The first question is the stupid obvious one: what did they think would happen? And we've already answered that one: pretty much this. So why did they set it up to happen? They told us straight out. The Red Dragon had gone for the head shot seven times out of ten, and he is an exceptionally good shot, so whoever was his target had no way of protecting themselves.

Now here's where Alana comes in. It looked like a trap, so they needed a professional opinion to make it look legit. However, anyone giving their professional opinion would be putting themselves at just as much risk as Will, and as Alana herself said, she was too good (not foolish enough) to take that risk so she passed it on to her employee (Chilton), who was. Will then passed his own risk on to Chilton by putting a hand on his shoulder, casting him as the pet to be killed first. We know, unlike in the book, that Will intended this interpretation because it's uncharacteristic of him to make gestures like hands on shoulders or indeed to touch other characters at all.

Only because Chilton was the one person who decided not to pass the risk on to someone else did they get any results from this escapade, and I have faith in their preternatural ability to flub every opportunity that comes their way.

So the next question is why did they think it happened? Alana told Hannibal to his face that he did it, but this demonstrably isn't true and he tells her so unequivocally. Will says Hannibal told the Red Dragon to take Chilton, when demonstrably he is the one who did so by implicature in the press. They say it happened because of Hannibal when it clearly didn't.

Now we come to the question of why they think that in the absence of any causal chain leading back to Hannibal. It's because they believe the idea - as voiced by Bedelia last season - that everything that happens in connection to Hannibal, however remotely, happens because Hannibal wills it, pun intended. Bedelia voiced the idea that Will is Hannibal's agency in the world - in other words, Hannibal has no hands but Will's hands and the way Hannibal carries out action at a distance is through Will. This is an echo of the general consensus in fandom that Will is the catalyst for bad things happening, and that his presence alone, regardless of anything he does or intends, is a vector for spreading Hannibal's poison through the world. The more they believe this, the more effective Hannibal becomes: they corrupt and tempt themselves and he doesn't have to do a thing!

Now we're seeing the logical conclusion of this magical thinking: Alana thinks whatever she did Hannibal did, Will thinks that what he told the Dragon to do Hannibal told the Dragon to do. Only Jack thinks he has agency apart from Hannibal, because Jack thinks he's God.

Why is Bedelia encouraging Will to believe these things: that he's not a killer (the hook to make him believe other things she says), that he should crush the next wounded bird he sees, that he and Hannibal are in love, that he is as much Chilton's torturer as the Dragon is, that he is the one carrying out Hannibal's will in the outside world? She's voicing uncomfortable truths, but also lies, as she told him directly she would do, as she learned from Hannibal.

What does Bedelia want? To get Will to take Hannibal off her hands, but also I think to accomplish what Hannibal couldn't - to convince Will he is a murderer and get him to embrace the murder lifestyle. If that means running off with Hannibal it also means Hannibal will be in a position to eat her. Presumably she has a plan for handling that too.

It is hard to tell what Bedelia wants in life, other than to survive it. She joined Hannibal because it was paradoxically the best way to survive. Also, don't forget Bedelia also had questions about what Hannibal really did, and meant, to her. In that sense her journey parallels Will's - reconstructing the crime. She has an even greater need to reconstruct the crime because she didn't know exactly what it was. She also enjoys murder - because of her self-discipline, she seems to lead a very regulated and unrewarding life and accompanying Hannibal on murder honeymoon was a way to experience emotions and excitement in a world that, for her, is probably barren of those things most of the time. The problem is she isn't particularly into doing her own murders, much as most of us aren't particularly into slaughtering our own meat. The process of slaughtering our own meat is too disturbing for, probably, out of us, but we still eat meat because we like it. So going on holiday with Hannibal was a way for her to fully experience a life that she's usually detached from. Doesn't mean she doesn't want to fuck shit up and treat others like playthings - apparently her biggest payoff was reducing Hannibal to a plaything, and the game is on again. The murders are a way of raising the stakes enough to make it interesting, not primarily something Bedelia wants to do herself.

Which brings me to Alana. The fact that she looked uncomfortable watching Chilton's torture doesn't mean she'd do it differently next time (and Jack's even further down this road). Will's reaction is the only one that looks like he might be remorseful (and BTW, Hannibal has never displayed 'remorse', which entails regretting something enough not to do it again; expressing momentary discomfort at doing the wrong thing is something psychopath(ic type)s can do, but on its own it does not rise to the level of remorse). Maybe Will won't do anything like this again and maybe he will; we'll see.

As for Alana's amusement, well, you know, she was looking amused *while* setting him up for grievous harm, and I guess you could interpret that as her being amused by his display of foolishness but the amusement stopped there and cut off at the exact point when the camera panned to her and she commenced her task of using that foolishness to expose him to that harm, even though she happened to be still expressing that amusement while setting him up. That seems to me like splitting hairs, though.

I am not arguing that Alana is more villainous than anyone else in that plot. She was the one who came up with the idea to bring in Chilton and slide the risk onto him, but the others agreed to it and Will cemented it. They were all - consciously, explicitly - conspiring to harm another person to achieve their own ends and that is pretty much the working definition of a bad person, not to mention it's unclear whether their goal was really what they said it was (and if it wasn't, that raises the question of what their their actual goal was). They're all bad people except - temporarily - Chilton, and Alana's not any better or worse. I'm just saying that I had started to like her a little bit and now I've reverted to not liking her again, which is a matter of personal taste. If she didn't have a history of 'inadvertently' setting up her enemies for disaster (and mocking them for it) I probably wouldn't hold this one against her so much - and to be fair to her, she showed generalised tearfulness at Freddie Lounds' funeral and throughout the episode in which it took place. But you better not be rude to Alana Bloom, is what I'm saying, because she'll get you back in much the same ways Hannibal does, even if she's too dainty to do it by her own hand.

I guess I hate Jack too but it's hard to sustain emotion given how comparatively straightforward he is. I must say that the body count so far - three dead and two wounded - is catching up with the murder toll at Jack's usual rate and, as usual, will probably overtake it soon.

Anyway, if they thought they were doing Hannibal's bidding, why did they think he wanted Chilton to suffer like this (apart from that he always wants that for people in general)? None of them take Chilton seriously enough to bother hating him, so it all comes back to looking for a scapegoat - not even to catch the Red Dragon, because the odds were too long compared to the risk. As a sacrifice, maybe, because they think their God wants it. And just as before, Jack thinks he's God (in control) and the sacrifice is for him, but everyone else thinks Hannibal is God and they sacrificed Chilton for him only to have him tell them - truthfully - that they did it for themselves.

I S2G at this point, catching the Ripper/Fairy/whoever is nothing but an excuse for dysfunctional family shenanigans with Hannibal as the head of the family. Catching the Whoever is incidental for all of them.

So I'm not sure what's coming next but we are being led towards Will becoming or appearing to become what Hannibal always wanted.

Augh.
posted by tel3path at 1:56 PM on August 24, 2015 [1 favorite]


Sorry I misspelled your name, litera scripta manet. I have SwiftKey.
posted by tel3path at 1:57 PM on August 24, 2015


I can only afford one FunkoPop but if each of us buys a FunkoPop we can start filming S4 right after the finale, who's with me.
posted by tel3path at 1:59 PM on August 24, 2015 [1 favorite]


We don't need them, Greg has those puppets already
posted by showbiz_liz at 2:02 PM on August 24, 2015 [4 favorites]


Oh, I was thinking, I know someone mentioned a few threads back about having a plan for us to do a watch/rewatch/read/reread of the rest of the Hannibal canon, which I'm totally on board for, and I wonder if anyone would be interested in trying to orchestrate a sort of simultaneous watching of Silence of the Lambs (or any of the other movies)? Maybe this is the kind of thing we could do with mefi chat (I've never been on chat, so don't really know if that would work) or some other platform since I know that isn't kosher for fanfare. It could be fun to do some in the moment reactions before coming over to fanfare to discuss things, especially since I've never seen any of them.

After all, we'll have to find some way to occupy ourselves during the lean times. (Ha! Unintentional cannibal pun.)
posted by litera scripta manet at 2:03 PM on August 24, 2015 [1 favorite]


Yeah, I think if we just pour funding into Lil Friendys, we'll be good to go.
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:04 PM on August 24, 2015


Sorry I misspelled your name, litera scripta manet. I have SwiftKey.

No worries. Feel free to abbreviate my username to lsm, or anything else really. In retrospect, long latin username probably wasn't the best choice.

We don't need them, Greg has those puppets already

So something like this only with Hannibal the cannibal and Will Graham making sweet, tortured, violent, cannibal love to each other? Works for me.
posted by litera scripta manet at 2:06 PM on August 24, 2015


We could always make our own Very Potter Hannigram Musical.

We can totally do this, guys. After all, I'm a die hard member of the (BBC) Sherlock fandom. We're used to waiting. (Airdate of Season 3: Jan 2014. Airdate of Season 4: Some time between late 2016 and forever.)
posted by litera scripta manet at 2:17 PM on August 24, 2015


So something like this yt only with Hannibal the cannibal and Will Graham making sweet, tortured, violent, cannibal love to each other? Works for me.

pretty close to that yeah
posted by showbiz_liz at 2:19 PM on August 24, 2015 [1 favorite]


Should keep me busy until the final episode airs later this week.

As others have said: HI. Also: My favorite thing in that big-ass thread remains our collective meltdown as Mizumono. Things are a bit different now since Fanfare threads have to wait till the show's aired (and even weirder still because of the staggered airing of this last chunk of the season because NBC consigned the show to Saturdays)... But that part of that old thread is pretty damn funny in retrospect.

You joined us just in time for a fresh losing our collective shit!
posted by sparkletone at 2:27 PM on August 24, 2015


Since this episode is titled "The Number of the Beast is 666" it's putting me in a Paradise Lost sort of mood. (Which I suppose is appropriate since Blake appears to have done illustrations for Paradise Lost as well.)

I think an argument could be made for Bedelia taking over the Lucifer role, at least in the recent episodes. She made some effort in season 2, it seemed, to align herself with the forces of "good," but then at the beginning of this season, whether willingly or not, she's there with Hannibal, and recent episodes particularly have shown that she's not just a hostage along for the ride. That's become especially evident in this episode as well as a couple episodes ago where she talks to Will about crushing the bird. In these scenes, it really felt like she was playing the role of Lucifer as snake, whispering in Will's ear, tempting him to act on certain desires. Maybe Bedelia made up her mind that "It's better to reign in Hell than to serve in Heaven."

So this brings us to the question, is Will going to take a bite of the poisoned apple? Or has he done it already? And if and when he does, is that the moment when Hannibal (The Adam to Will's Eve) says, let's go off and live in sin together? And does that mean the two of them will finally get to know each other in the biblical sense? WE CAN ONLY HOPE.

Turns out even my attempts to do a semi-serious literary analysis brings me back to the Good Ship Hannigram. Oh well.

MURDER HUSBANDS 4LYFE.
posted by litera scripta manet at 3:03 PM on August 24, 2015 [2 favorites]


Well, my theory is that Will might do something that could be considered both sacrificing himself and giving in to his darker impulses - that is, imprisoning Hannibal himself, someplace where neither Hannibal nor Will (as Hannibal's semi-unwilling 'instrument in the world') can hurt anyone else. Together 4eva yet still 'mortal enemies' (at least, until the fanfic steps in.)

But then again, did any of us expect Mizumono? NO WE DID NOT. So who even knows.
posted by showbiz_liz at 3:11 PM on August 24, 2015 [1 favorite]


Yeah, I am making no non-idle predictions whatsoever because who knows what crazy shit they have up their sleeves, so why bother?
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:02 PM on August 24, 2015 [1 favorite]


Adorable
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:25 PM on August 24, 2015


Today on the Hannibal Facebook.
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:27 PM on August 24, 2015


So here is Chilton in full-body burn makeup, with better lighting than on the show (not a difficult standard to meet). It definitely does NOT look like all of his skin burned - there are patches of burned flesh and patches of what looks like healthy skin.

I think the effect the makeup people were going for here was "gas poured over his head and then running in rivulets down the body." See how it kind of pools at his lap and then goes straight down the legs?

...oh god, the poor guy's dick probably got burned off, didn't it

Anyways, according to my very expert knowledge gleaned from Wikipedia, this doesn't look like the slam-dunk death sentence we were assuming, although it's certainly not a sure thing either. (He may have avoided inhaling much smoke or flame due to the wind in his face from the movement of the chair, which would also help.)
posted by showbiz_liz at 5:19 PM on August 24, 2015


Chilton cannot die.
posted by mountmccabe at 5:41 PM on August 24, 2015


I MISSED EVERYTHING BECAUSE MY HOUSE BURNED DOWN AND I CAN STATE AUTHORITATIVELY THAT MISSING HANNIBAL WAS ACTUALLY WORSE THAN ALMOST BEING CRISPY
posted by poffin boffin at 5:44 PM on August 24, 2015 [4 favorites]


anyway i am sadglad that chilton replaced freddie in The Scene; sad because i adore chilton's unashamed terribility but glad because this freddie deserves only a splendid life of (even more) unashamed terribility unlike book freddy who was just awful
posted by poffin boffin at 5:46 PM on August 24, 2015 [2 favorites]


I really need to give this another try. Can I safely skip X number of episodes in season 1? I did watch quite a few in the first half and of course I know who people are, but Will Graham's constant headache face really bugged the shit out of me and it all became a bit of a morass. Mads Mikkelsen is just so sublime though.
posted by turbid dahlia at 5:46 PM on August 24, 2015


no you must watch them all ALL OF THEM STRAIGHT THROUGH WITHOUT SLEEP OR FOOD
posted by poffin boffin at 5:48 PM on August 24, 2015 [5 favorites]


only then will you Become
posted by poffin boffin at 5:48 PM on August 24, 2015 [8 favorites]


Telling me to watch Hannibal without getting peckish is like telling me to watch The Wire without getting peckish. Or watch Deadwood without wanting to get shitfaced drunk. Or watch The Wire without getting shitfaced drunk.
posted by turbid dahlia at 5:53 PM on August 24, 2015 [1 favorite]


oh no the bitey scene

did not like
posted by poffin boffin at 5:57 PM on August 24, 2015 [1 favorite]


Hmm turbid dahlia, with the caveat that everyone in this thread would recommend watching ALL OF IT FOREVER because we are big nerds, I would say that a speedier tour through the first season might go 1, 3, 6, 9, and then 11-13. That skips about half of the episodes, including the majority of the "killer of the week" ones which the show then largely abandoned.

Also, rest assured that his headacheface is largely replaced by Steely Resolve Face after this season, and it's much sexier
posted by showbiz_liz at 6:05 PM on August 24, 2015 [4 favorites]


ok, you can eat, but the food must be people.
posted by poffin boffin at 6:23 PM on August 24, 2015 [1 favorite]


Wait did your house actually burn down?
posted by turbid dahlia at 6:30 PM on August 24, 2015 [1 favorite]


Wait did your house actually burn down?

^^ I'm here with the same question. WTH?
posted by crossoverman at 6:42 PM on August 24, 2015 [3 favorites]


I did watch quite a few in the first half and of course I know who people are, but Will Graham's constant headache face really bugged the shit out of me and it all became a bit of a morass. Mads Mikkelsen is just so sublime though.

Yeah, you can skip some (see showbiz liz recs. above). But just so you know, there's an actual reason for that face.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:58 PM on August 24, 2015 [1 favorite]


yeah a downstairs neighbor's cat knocked over a candle
posted by poffin boffin at 7:04 PM on August 24, 2015


Holy shit, that's terrible, pb. You and yours are all OK?
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:06 PM on August 24, 2015


I'm assuming poffin's people and critters (if any) are ok, but what about downstairs kitty?
posted by turbid dahlia at 7:12 PM on August 24, 2015


kitty died from smokes :(

but his puppy frand escaped and is okay!
posted by poffin boffin at 7:21 PM on August 24, 2015 [5 favorites]


[moment of silence for kitty]

Boy you are one tough cookie for getting through the Chilton Flambeau episode after THAT. Yikes! And then this coming one too. Double yikes!
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:40 PM on August 24, 2015 [1 favorite]


Have I mentioned I love Weird Deer's recaps?

But you guys. You guys. It seems, after multiple bride references from Bedelia, combined with literally every fucking other thing that Hannibal has done, that Will, the most selectively blind empathy detective, is finally beginning to figure out something Important. He asks, carefully, because neither he nor I can believe this is happening right now: “Is Hannibal….in love with me?”

YOU SURE BET, LIL BUD. And YOU SURE BET, WORLD. We have made it 38 episodes into this gay-ass cannibalism show, and finally William Deerheart Graham has just literally asked, out loud with his own mouth: “Is Hannibal in love with me?” AND PEOPLE SAY WE’RE READING TOO FAR INTO IT. NO. LOOK INTO THIS MAN’S EYES. BRYAN FULLER IS NOT FUCKING AROUND, AND HE WILL GIVE YOU THE POST-ROPE HOMO MURD SHOW OF YOUR DREAMS.

posted by showbiz_liz at 8:34 PM on August 24, 2015 [3 favorites]


Uh damn. Glad that you're okay and :( that not all pets made it out safe, poffin. That's terrible.
posted by sparkletone at 8:45 PM on August 24, 2015 [2 favorites]


So there's going to be a scene where either Will or Hannibal goes in like they're going to bite the other one's lips off and they just start making out instead, right?
posted by The World Famous at 10:30 PM on August 24, 2015


More likely the other way around.
posted by homunculus at 11:05 PM on August 24, 2015


And substitute lips for-

um

you know what, I'm gonna go to sleep rather than finishing that sentence
posted by showbiz_liz at 11:07 PM on August 24, 2015 [2 favorites]


yeah a downstairs neighbor's cat knocked over a candle

Ugh, I'm sorry, that really sucks. Glad that you got out okay, and that the pup made it out.

. (For the poor kitty.)
posted by litera scripta manet at 11:43 PM on August 24, 2015


.

(The kitty downstairs)

poffin boffin, so thankful that you are okay.
posted by tel3path at 2:19 AM on August 25, 2015 [1 favorite]




season 4 is nigh after all yay .

Greg Nog is a(n inter) national treasure.
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:17 AM on August 25, 2015 [1 favorite]






Oh for fuck's sake
posted by The Whelk at 9:53 AM on August 25, 2015 [1 favorite]


Seems like a smaller list than last week fwiw.
posted by sparkletone at 10:02 AM on August 25, 2015


Soooo on the weird deer tumblr they point to a version of the Bluebeard story where he's a , get this FANCY CANNIBAL OBESSED WITH PUNS , and is killed when he eats a pie made out of his wife not knowing she had been steadily poisoning herself so the meal would kill him.


Something to chew on at least
posted by The Whelk at 10:29 AM on August 25, 2015 [2 favorites]


Info on pre-emptions for the finale on Saturday.

Seriously, they might as well just come out and ORDER people to view the show on Thu/Fri using alternative means of access (the 20 or 30 who aren't already doing so).
posted by FelliniBlank at 10:49 AM on August 25, 2015 [1 favorite]


That's not something they can openly endorse for all kinds of reasons. Imagine trying to negotiate a new home for the show after having told people to just torrent the shit out of it. Doing it to boost twitter stuff wouldn't be worth it either because only twet originating from in the US counts for the Nielsen stuff AFAIK. They're doing what they can. It's not like pre-emptions are some new phenomenon, and other shows that got fairly regularly screwed over by them have survived it just fine (looking at you, original-run Futurama).
posted by sparkletone at 10:54 AM on August 25, 2015


I didn't mean that literally; I just meant that NBC is all DCMA and "anti-piracy" enforcement, etc., and then they go out of their way to do shit that will drive people away from their broadcast toward other options.
posted by FelliniBlank at 11:04 AM on August 25, 2015 [1 favorite]


If NBC genuinely is so freaking concerned about people "stealing" this show they don't care about, then a) don't broadcast it two days later in the US than they do in Canada and b) don't let the affiliates pre-empt the series finale.
posted by FelliniBlank at 11:07 AM on August 25, 2015 [1 favorite]


Please. It's not like I don't understand where you're coming from here (and feel mostly similarly), but seriously. That's not how this has or will ever work on the business end of things until some point much further into the collapse of the traditional television model. All things considered, we're lucky they aired the final chunk of episodes at all (nevermind getting to a third season). Being incensed or exasperated because all of 15 markets are suffering a pre-emption this late in the game unless you're directly affected is... weird (and we both know you're not anymore than I am regardless of where we live).

In any case: HANNIBAL THE CHARACTER ALREADY HAD HIS MIC DROP LAST SEASON. HOW COULD HE HAVE TWO. WHAT COULD HANNIBAL THE SHOW'S BE AFTER ALL THIS. We all already know what Mr. Whelk is pulling for, of course. I'm still... more or less where I've been in terms of what is going to happen. I'm tempted to block off a bunch of time this evening and tomorrow evening to rewatch this season. Some skimming aside, I haven't really watched any of them beyond my usual two initial viewings really (one for flailing, one for actually being thoughtful).
posted by sparkletone at 11:34 AM on August 25, 2015


I'm not incensed or exasperated; it's just funny.
posted by FelliniBlank at 11:41 AM on August 25, 2015


*starts banging fists on the table* AN-GRY MAKE-OUTS AN-GRY MEAKE-OUTS
posted by The Whelk at 11:44 AM on August 25, 2015 [4 favorites]


you guys I'm worried about Whelk
posted by showbiz_liz at 11:53 AM on August 25, 2015


what will happen to him if there are no angry makeouts
posted by showbiz_liz at 11:54 AM on August 25, 2015


i will get very angry and makeout
posted by The Whelk at 11:57 AM on August 25, 2015 [1 favorite]




what will happen to him if there are no angry makeouts

Personally, I'm fine with them not having angry makeouts. They could have tortured makeouts or tender makeouts, or tender tortured makeouts. Or they could just strip off their clothes and start going at it. I'm not picky.

Oh, oh, you mean what if there are no angry makeouts.

Um, let's not speak of it. The gods Bryan Fuller et al. have heard our prayers and they will be answered.

The tooth fairy may be a one night stand, but Hannigram, well, Hannigram is forever.

FOREVER I TELL YOU

LONG LIVE THE MURDER HUSBANDS

Okay, I'll stop shouting. For now. No promises after the season finale airs.
posted by litera scripta manet at 12:24 PM on August 25, 2015 [2 favorites]


The ending credit stinger is Kade Purnell slapping the entire Hannibal case file on Jack's desk, screaming I QUIT! and storming out
posted by The Whelk at 12:29 PM on August 25, 2015 [1 favorite]


Tommy Westphall shakes a snowglobe.
posted by Pendragon at 12:42 PM on August 25, 2015


you guys I'm worried about Whelk

You... Weren't before?
posted by sparkletone at 1:07 PM on August 25, 2015 [3 favorites]


A matter of critical import

Guess I should be prepared for the possibility of yelling at my TV.
posted by sparkletone at 1:08 PM on August 25, 2015


Shot of a snowglobe (but like, falling in slow motion through undefined black space before shattering), which transitions to

shot of Will waking up and saying "I had the strangest dream!" to his doggies in the Wolf Trap house, but then, off the sound of faraway medical devices beeping, cut to

shot of Will in a coma after the events of Mizumono, but then a muffled "Will? Wake up!" leads us into

shot of a well-appointed bedroom in Argentina where Hannibal and Will are curled up together nudely, which is then covered by scrolling gilt letters saying "...the end?", which then becomes the final page of a book from which we pan up to

shot of Bryan Fuller's face, staring directly into the camera. He says "Hannigram, bitch." Smash cut to black.
posted by showbiz_liz at 1:15 PM on August 25, 2015 [7 favorites]


Tumblr then suffers the internet equivalent of the Great Chicago Fire
posted by showbiz_liz at 1:22 PM on August 25, 2015 [1 favorite]


That would at least be a change from last season's mic drop. Last time around there were too many tears for a fire to stand much chance.
posted by sparkletone at 2:23 PM on August 25, 2015 [1 favorite]


maybe the will kiss through the holes of hannibal's cell wall

maybe it will be a post credits gloryhole scene

maybe they will do the do
posted by poffin boffin at 2:37 PM on August 25, 2015 [6 favorites]


The only limit is ourselves
posted by The Whelk at 2:56 PM on August 25, 2015 [1 favorite]


GOD what if the post credits scene is beverly with two very obvious will and hannibal rag dolls making them kiss
posted by poffin boffin at 3:15 PM on August 25, 2015 [5 favorites]


ACTUALLY my ideal ending would be similar to the ending of the otherwise not very excellent Hannibal book, wherein Nurse Barney (to be replaced by price and/or zeller, or OOH YES maybe margot and alana on a glamorous vacation!) sees Hannibal and Clarice (Will) abroad somewhere as a stylish passionate couple from afar and decides it would be in his (their) best interest to flee as soon as possible.
posted by poffin boffin at 3:40 PM on August 25, 2015 [2 favorites]


Ok so watched the first three episodes of season 1 last night. I suspect I will watch it all in its entirety. Pls accept me into your fold.
posted by turbid dahlia at 4:55 PM on August 25, 2015 [3 favorites]


*hands you a plate of feathers and skulls* just put these all over anything you want and dig in.
posted by The Whelk at 4:58 PM on August 25, 2015 [2 favorites]


I am not worried about spoilers because I know the show ends with Hannibal racing a funny little car across the desert.
posted by turbid dahlia at 5:24 PM on August 25, 2015 [1 favorite]


No no, he of course becomes a lumberjack
posted by showbiz_liz at 5:29 PM on August 25, 2015


WILL becomes the lumberjack, hannibal runs their b&b with the suspiciously good food
posted by poffin boffin at 6:42 PM on August 25, 2015 [2 favorites]


I'm okay with anything in the post-credits scene, except if Fuller has somehow filmed a scene with Ellen Page as Schmarlice Schmarling AND THEN I WILL BURN IT ALL DOWN.
posted by crossoverman at 7:58 PM on August 25, 2015 [1 favorite]


Tommy Westphall shakes a snowglobe.

I'm still holding out hope that Hannibal can find its way into the Tommyverse. Come on, Bryan!
posted by crossoverman at 7:59 PM on August 25, 2015


Considering the show's constant visual referents of the Shining, I wouldn't be surprised if we did end on some riff on Midnight The Stars And You

(Final shot, post Alana and Margot fleeing in terror from the opera house, Will and Hannibal, arm in arm, in a black and white photo, you have always been the caretaker/murder husband)
posted by The Whelk at 8:11 PM on August 25, 2015


(Alana and Martot see Will and Hannibal sitting together, head on shoulder, they run for the hills, the music starts, Hannibal is smiling and closes his eyes, then we see Will shift into a ten thousand yard dead state of dread as we pull back and the entire opera house is populated with the murder victims and lesser tier murderers, look I have a lot of ideas okay)
posted by The Whelk at 8:13 PM on August 25, 2015 [2 favorites]


"Forget it, Whelk. It's Hannigram."
posted by showbiz_liz at 8:28 PM on August 25, 2015


no i want will to embrace his inner madman and feast upon the flesh of lesser beings with his beloved
posted by poffin boffin at 8:44 PM on August 25, 2015


Oh I got it bad, the opening line to a post running away together fic just flashed into my head

"My name is William Graham, I am 47 years old and I work repairing and restoring antique motors. On Tuesday night I came home to our modest New Orleans townhouse to find my husband of four years, a seller of rare books and prints, sawing off a man's hand in our sink.

"I know what you said" he says, not looking up at me. "Only on birthdays and Christian Holidays." With another saw the man's hand dropped into the sink. "but you should've seen what he was trying to pass off an original Gustave Dore sketch."

My husband takes professional conduct like that very seriously."
posted by The Whelk at 8:47 PM on August 25, 2015 [7 favorites]


yes good
posted by poffin boffin at 9:07 PM on August 25, 2015


lol
posted by The Whelk at 10:04 PM on August 25, 2015


So! the AV Club wrote a Page To Screen about Red Dragon and it's pretty good but they say you can't find a good video of the Red Dragon Lecter scene and I literally did a side by side comparison video for it here
posted by The Whelk at 11:32 PM on August 25, 2015 [1 favorite]


...another thing that's not getting mentioned

chilton is known as a true crime hack, having sold out his professional opinion for fame. Therefore, adding his professional opinion on the Tooth Fairy doesn't do anything to lend it credibility. It just paints a target on Chilton's back.

As weird-deer pointed out in that recap, there's no grounds for Alana to give her classic Worried Look when the Dragon threatens Will on the video given that the whole point was to make the Dragon angry at Will - Chilton can't be selling him out because the object of the game was to enable Will to sell himself out. Except it wasn't, because that's obviously not what they intended, only what they said they intended.

And the reason (apart from the obvious) why the Chilton thing makes me so angry is it confirms everything I ever thought, that really s1 and s2 were about sacrificing Will to keep Hannibal happy because they thought he was the weakest, and only through a combination of showing that he wasn't such an easy target, and Hannibal deciding he preferred Chilton as a sacrifice, did Will escape that position.

And now Will is in on it. All it takes is one little suggestion from Bedelia that he take up crushing wounded birds and he's helping the others bully Chilton too. As for Alana - her third time picking on Chilton proves that she's never been anything but a bully to Chilton too. It's not fun getting confirmation that there was never the innocent explanation for this that everyone said there was - oh good golly gosh how could anyone ever suspect her darling hanni-bear - it just makes everyone's actions look as base and disgusting as possible, not just for this one incident but over the entirety of three seasons. The only one who didn't look completely venal was Will, and now he's decided to join the cool kids? Ugh.
posted by tel3path at 12:51 AM on August 26, 2015


Well, the other part of the weird deer comment was Bedelia saying oh you touched him! Like a pet it's your fault! And Cjilton says the same thing but we have no actual idea if that's right cause we're relyingg on Will translating and ...uh no! No that is not a thing, transferring petdom and accountability via touch in a photo is not a thing. It's a totally made up thing Bedelia has infected Will with thinking, because this is a show about absuive relationships, from the personal to the societal, and I swear ever since Will starting smack talking She's been all "oh, okay! We're doing this?" And just TRASHING HIM, going all up inside his head and knocking shit over, and really saying, oh hey crazy boy, you're no worse then me, he'll, way worse, you're in loooooove with him. Or vice versa. Who cares.

Which fits the idea of Bedelia going "ugh, he wants Will Graham so much, let him have him, I'll push him toward each other, I just want to be not in danger anymore." Because Bedelia is the smartest person on the show.
posted by The Whelk at 1:01 AM on August 26, 2015 [3 favorites]


The touch isn't the issue on its own, though. It's that Alana announced outright that only a fool would take the risk of being the professional spokesperson, so she immediately set out to recruit a fool, and since Will for whatever reason couldn't bear the thoughts he'd been having of Alana getting hurt, he let her throw Chilton on the fire in her place. When instead, once they realized the limitations of their plan, they might have done better to think of a new plan instead.
posted by tel3path at 1:34 AM on August 26, 2015


Here's my sticking point with Bedelia and Will.

Just because Bedelia says something doesn't mean Will has to believe it. I don't know if he's doing therapy or just the appearance of therapy. Why would he do the latter? To get into the mindset. He hasn't been to see Hannibal this week, you notice. Why do that when he can go to Hannibal's less dangerous (he thinks) ex-wife?

Will doesn't know that Bedelia straight up murdered her patient, though I wonder if he's inferred as much by now. If he has, that would give him further incentive to visit her.

I notice that bonearenaofmyskull is puzzled as to what Bedelia's endgame is. She may not have an endgame, because she is supposed to be the real psychopath on this show, not Hannibal. Hannibal didn't have an endgame in life until he met Will, but Bedelia doesn't really have the capacity for that kind of attachment to another person, and she doesn't ultimately much enjoy murdering people for sport, so it all comes back to her feeling like the smartest person in the room I guess.

There was some headscratching about why send Jack after Will and if she really wanted Hannibal to kill someone he loved why undermine it like that. I don't know, but she best not antagonize Jack any further, hopefully Hannibal will get caught somehow if she does this, and anyway it's sort of characteristic of psychopaths to spend ages setting something up and then at the last moment get bored and do something else. That doesn't make for good drama, so I'm not saying that's why Bedelia did certain things, but if Bedelia is supposed to be the true psychopath here then "realistically" her motives and actions wouldn't necessarily hang together in any way that seems coherent to us.
posted by tel3path at 2:21 AM on August 26, 2015 [1 favorite]


It's almost time...
posted by sparkletone at 6:05 AM on August 26, 2015 [2 favorites]


This may not have anything to do with anything, but I just noticed that the phrase "the wrath of the lamb" in Revelation occurs after the lamb opens the sixth seal, and The Wrath of the Lamb will be the sixth episode in this arc.
posted by showbiz_liz at 7:49 AM on August 26, 2015 [1 favorite]


Ooo and the fifth seal is the one that releases the cries of the martyred, which, hi Chilton

It doesn't look as if the first four seals map very well onto the first four episodes, though.
posted by showbiz_liz at 7:58 AM on August 26, 2015


There's now a preview apparently! I don't know if I want to watch it or not, but just FYI.
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:55 AM on August 26, 2015


I uh. I watched it. Given how little waiting is left, I would say hold off if you can stand to. It's not any more spoilery than I remember the preview for Mizumono being last season, and I don't regret watching it myself at all but uh. No reason to be in a hurry.

We're all dooooommmmmeeeeddddd.
posted by sparkletone at 11:39 AM on August 26, 2015 [1 favorite]


the "pet and touch" thing just sticks in me cause the other time I had that "No! that's not a thing! This is YOUR THING." moment was when Hannibal says friendship can often result in the lost of individual identity, cause I instantly went "No uh , you really really wish it did but-"

I don't need to see a preview I can wait 48 ho-oh who are we kidding *click click*
posted by The Whelk at 11:56 AM on August 26, 2015 [1 favorite]


*post preview*

I

um

okay.
posted by The Whelk at 12:01 PM on August 26, 2015


IS IT A BAD OK OR A GOOD OK
posted by showbiz_liz at 12:02 PM on August 26, 2015


Oh by the way do we all remember this? "I just heard how Hannibal‘s third season ends and there are no words… except maybe these: The twist ending is an homage of sorts to one of my favorite cliffhangers of all time." Only a couple more days to baselessly speculate on what that might be!
posted by showbiz_liz at 12:04 PM on August 26, 2015


It seems to be gathering several threads and theories we've thought of into a single whole and once again it's going to be a showdown apparently involving everyone.


Also, Angry Bedelia. Very angry Bedelia.
posted by The Whelk at 12:05 PM on August 26, 2015 [2 favorites]


IS IT A BAD OK OR A GOOD OK

That is such an incredibly vague way of wording this question but also what Whelk said and not a word more tbh.
posted by sparkletone at 12:28 PM on August 26, 2015 [2 favorites]


The twist ending is an homage of sorts to one of my favorite cliffhangers of all time.

Part five of Genesis of the Daleks?

One can only hope.
posted by Grangousier at 1:23 PM on August 26, 2015 [2 favorites]


So yeah, I'm afraid to look.

But who was it said something about how Alana compartmentalizes and how locking people up is a reification of that?

And how Alana has always regarded Hannibal as an extension of herself?

Well so she feebly tries to say to Hannibal "you did this" after Chilton gets fried, and Hannibal just laughs and pushes it back to her?

What she means is "I did this unconsciously" (the dark dark shadow of my psyche, which I keep locked in a cell that looks exactly like my office but is not my office, did this it was totally my evil twin and like it's not my fault because I do everything possible to keep him under control).

And she can't even claim that any more.

Last week I was looking at the progression of her suits during the scenes in Hannibal's cell and/or anteroom. She starts with a light grey suit that's almost the mirror image of Hannibal's jumpsuit, then a dark grey glen plaid suit with a red detail, followed by a darker grey pinstripe suit. This week, she's in a black suit while she's right there in the cell. It's Alana who looks like Hannibal's shadow!

Oooh

Can't wait to see what the Shadow gets up to next week.
posted by tel3path at 2:52 PM on August 26, 2015


Gosh, what could make Bedelia mad?

Two things:

Hannibal attempting to eat her STOP EATING MY LEG HANNI, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THIS which entails Hannibal getting into a position where eating her is possible.

Getting nobbled on charges of murdering her patient after she got immunity the last time! booooo! Or some other crime. Or, receiving a credible threat of facing charges somehow.
posted by tel3path at 2:55 PM on August 26, 2015


We're doomed.
posted by showbiz_liz at 3:02 PM on August 26, 2015 [1 favorite]


THE SHADOW KNOWS
posted by tel3path at 3:04 PM on August 26, 2015


So... Where would be the best place for someone to find this show on Thursday?
posted by bfranklin at 3:06 PM on August 26, 2015


We're doomed.

The reason I said I didn't feel it was any more spoilery than the preview for last season's finale is that my gut says that everything in the preview is from the first 1/3 of the episode (maybe 1/2 at most). They don't tell us much of anything about the actual conclusion. That twet exchange makes me think I'm right in guessing that.
posted by sparkletone at 3:08 PM on August 26, 2015


So... Where would be the best place for someone to find this show on Thursday?

If you want actual quality, best to wait till after it airs in Canada on Thursday night and, well, pirate it.

But legend tells of a (fairly low-quality) livestream which may or may not be findable by googling a certain phrase.
posted by showbiz_liz at 3:15 PM on August 26, 2015 [4 favorites]


THE DE LAUTENTIS TWITTER LIKES GREG NOG'S VIDEOS


YOU ARE PUPPETS NOW GREG

YOU ARE PUUUUUUUPPPPETS
posted by The Whelk at 3:28 PM on August 26, 2015 [4 favorites]


Wow the things hanni said in what screencaps i saw of the trailer made me hope he gets his goolies cut off because even hannibal might have trouble maintaining inner dignity with his goolies cut off
posted by tel3path at 4:19 PM on August 26, 2015




Why am I reading AV Club comments? What a bucket of cocks.
posted by carsonb at 7:25 PM on August 26, 2015 [3 favorites]


Hey, they're not all negative!

I actually showed these to a friend who totally didn't get them, and I think there was a sort of gap where they didn't realize these things are SUPPOSED to be ridiculous and bizarre. It's one of those "you just get it or you don't" things.
posted by showbiz_liz at 7:36 PM on August 26, 2015


Ugh I'm wildly vacillating between

SHOW ME THE EPISODE NOW

and

oh god this episode is going to destroy us maybe it's better to wait a few days or a week or a year because oh man there is so much potential for hurt

Of course, I watched the preview as soon as I found out I could, and if I could watch the episode right this second I would, even if I spent the whole forty five minutes crying/rocking back and forth/laughing hysterically/hiding under the covers.

So, yeah, just thought I'd share. Oh, and if anyone needs a little pick me up, I'm enjoying watching the bloopers from season 1 and season 2. Enjoy the laughter and good cheer while you still can, because who knows what this finale is going to bring.

Please, please let it bring angry, hot, passionate Hannigram making out. Or at least extremely suggestive caresses and prolonged eye contact and maybe a few proclamations of undying love. Is that too much to ask for?
posted by litera scripta manet at 9:48 PM on August 26, 2015 [4 favorites]


If I felt there was any way I could not watch the episode and never be spoiled for it so that one fine day far in the future I decided to sit down and watch it when I felt like I was strong enough to face it head on, I'd not watch it tomorrow. Because I don't want it to be over.

But there's no way I could avoid finding out what happened somehow, somewhere. So I'll be watching as soon as I'll be able. With a nice chianti.
posted by crossoverman at 10:20 PM on August 26, 2015 [1 favorite]


Jim trying to come up with a post finale, hiatus mixtape and suck on Hannibal listening to I don't Like your girlfriend
posted by The Whelk at 11:15 PM on August 26, 2015


How does somebody not realize that a musical puppet recap called Hamibal of a ridiculous and bizarre TV show is supposed to be ridiculous and bizarre?

I despair of humanity and can only pray that the finale ends with everyone being turned into singing puppets.
posted by tel3path at 12:48 AM on August 27, 2015


I just saw that picture and Ohmygawd

I think $THING could happen or $OTHER_THING but i think most likely $THIRD_THING?!? Or what about even $ALT_THING!!!!!!!!1!!!!!!

This comment has been brought to you by the Official Secrets Act
posted by tel3path at 1:23 AM on August 27, 2015 [1 favorite]


Okay, now I'm super confused - when is the earliest actual screening time anywhere, i.e.: when will a torrent be appearing for Hannibal?
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 1:39 AM on August 27, 2015


Something I noticed, which is probably completely irrelevant and, hence, perfect for these threads...

The furniture in Bedelia's room seems to have a preponderance of curved timber ending in points, and acute angles... all rather reminiscent of our old friend Symbolism Deer's horns.
posted by coriolisdave at 2:04 AM on August 27, 2015


Enh. Those AV Club comments are pretty normal for something like this showing up outside of the TV Club section of the site. A similar thing'd happen whenever Community came up outside of reviews/recaps of that show as well. Not a big deal.

Also, 3x11 for Hamibal is up.
posted by sparkletone at 2:14 AM on August 27, 2015


Dorothy: earliest airing is Thursday at 10 est in Canada.
posted by showbiz_liz at 4:28 AM on August 27, 2015 [1 favorite]


I can't find a WhatTheFlick review for this episode :(
posted by crossoverman at 5:56 AM on August 27, 2015


They haven't posted one yet. Usually they're up earlier in the week than this but I guess there was a delay in recording one for whatever reason. I'm sure they'll get to it.
posted by sparkletone at 7:07 AM on August 27, 2015


I have a theory which is not terribly consequential if true, but would be neat. Basically, the five locks between Hannibal and the outside could possibly represent the first five seals in the Book of Revelation, with the sixth seal representing whatever is holding Will himself back.
posted by showbiz_liz at 8:11 AM on August 27, 2015 [2 favorites]


I'm glad this season finally got me to read through Revelation, it's a total fucking trip
posted by showbiz_liz at 8:12 AM on August 27, 2015


this season finally got me to read through Revelation

It's the second most amusing book of the Bible after Job, and there are some interesting Hannibal parallels there too.
posted by Bringer Tom at 8:21 AM on August 27, 2015


You could see Abigail's death - in Primavera - as the fourth seal, and the arrival of Hannibal as a false Christ figure (Alana even sees him as Christ in S2, even though in the very same scene it is possible to see him as Judas) could be seen as the first seal (and with him, pestilence in the form of encephalitis). War could be represented by the struggle of season 2, and Mason Verger could be the one representing famine or, more broadly, empire oppression.

It's rather hard to impose that kind of structure though I guess.
posted by tel3path at 11:39 AM on August 27, 2015


Unlike a lot of other Biblical events, though, the opening of the seals is a series of deliberate actions on the part of the opener, small actions with predictable yet enormous consequences. That, plus the fact that both locks and seals literally entail opening a thing, is what put me in mind of the aforementioned five locks.

Plus of course, this half-season is the only one where they're deliberately piling on the Revelation imagery. So if I happened to be right, it could be a deliberate choice and not a coincidental mapping.
posted by showbiz_liz at 12:15 PM on August 27, 2015 [1 favorite]


Yes I think you're right.

The first door would have to be the door to the BSHCI itself. So someone could get through that door by posing as something they're not.

The fourth door would be death. Well, Gideon took the storyline where he faked a heart attack but that doesn't mean they couldn't do it again. Does Hannibal's cell wall count as a door? There is a door into the cell, though, somehow.
posted by tel3path at 1:08 PM on August 27, 2015


I don't think it needs to be quite as specific as that; more like, the single act of moving him from inside his cell to outside the hospital could be the equivalent of the opening of the first five seals, which would unleash the metaphorical four horsemen and the threat or more 'martyrs'. The opening of the locks doesn't need to represent death or pestilence or whatever in and of itself, it just needs to CAUSE it.
posted by showbiz_liz at 1:23 PM on August 27, 2015 [1 favorite]


The fourth door would be death.

Like in SotL when Lecter disguised himself as the dead guard?
posted by carsonb at 1:25 PM on August 27, 2015 [2 favorites]


Oh god I forgot how horrible that scene was. The 'guard' wasn't dead and his 'colleague' talked him through the wait for EMT. *shudder*
posted by carsonb at 2:21 PM on August 27, 2015 [1 favorite]


Yeah I think you're right, the five keys have to represent the first five seals. I've been digging around ever since Alana said she had five keys and I can't find any symbolism specific to five keys qua keys, there's nothing that fits better than the first five seals.
posted by tel3path at 2:39 PM on August 27, 2015


Also to be fair, the "five locks between hannibal and outside" thing is a line from the book, so it is entirely possible that it means nothing whatsoever and I'm just babbling on about nonsense
posted by showbiz_liz at 2:41 PM on August 27, 2015 [1 favorite]


No, Alana said five keys - I don't remember it from the book but it's been a while.

SPEAKING OF DISASTER PREPAREDNESS: there are sixty chapters in the book of the Rising of Hannibal. Let's say we all give ourselves a week after the series finale, then start reading at the rate of a chapter a day, and then watch the movie, that takes us up to the first Saturday in November and I'll post a thread for that movie and we can just sorta incidentally discuss the book too.
posted by tel3path at 2:51 PM on August 27, 2015 [1 favorite]


She said "five doors, and I have the keys to all of them" I think
posted by showbiz_liz at 3:02 PM on August 27, 2015


Do I HAVE to read Hannibal Rising tho
posted by showbiz_liz at 3:02 PM on August 27, 2015 [1 favorite]


No. The writers read it this season so that we wouldn't have to.
posted by sparkletone at 3:27 PM on August 27, 2015 [2 favorites]


FOR SCIENCE

We've gotten away thus far with enjoying ourselves while the characters suffer, living on their tears

WELL NOW IT'S TIME TO SUFFER WITH THEM
posted by tel3path at 3:37 PM on August 27, 2015 [1 favorite]


I've spent like all day watching old Siouxsie Sioux music videos and going "Oh that's where the show's signature shot choices came from ahhh"
posted by The Whelk at 3:53 PM on August 27, 2015 [1 favorite]


(see show I need angry making out so I can make a goopy fanvid to If It Doesn't Kill You. Hannigram really is the swooniest, high drama Gothic relationship.)
posted by The Whelk at 3:55 PM on August 27, 2015 [1 favorite]


If you don't read your hammibal rising you won't get any silence of the lambs
posted by tel3path at 4:26 PM on August 27, 2015


I AM SITTING IN MY SMELLY CHARRED WINDOWLESS HOME WAITING PATIENTLY FOR THIS STUPID CANADIAN LIVESTREAM MY LIFE IS IN SHAMBLES BECAUSE THESE TWO MANIACS HAVENT KISSED IM SO AGITATED

also my chicken tendys got cold and im mad about it
posted by poffin boffin at 4:49 PM on August 27, 2015 [6 favorites]


pb you are a true example to us all
posted by showbiz_liz at 4:58 PM on August 27, 2015


welp time to cook this giant steak I bought and get blazed, tho hopefully not literally in the poffin boffin/fred chilton sense
posted by showbiz_liz at 4:59 PM on August 27, 2015


ok so we're going to post the FINAL POST EVER as soon as it's over right because really why the fuck not

NO GODS NO MASTERS
posted by poffin boffin at 5:25 PM on August 27, 2015 [2 favorites]


Lou is a fucking traitor (not really).
posted by sparkletone at 5:45 PM on August 27, 2015 [1 favorite]


LIL FRIENDYS 3x12. HAPPY END OF THE WORLD EVERYONE.
posted by sparkletone at 5:46 PM on August 27, 2015 [1 favorite]


FINAL POST EVER

Someone may have this (mostly) ready to go in another tab. Someone will definitely not accidentally click the wrong episode number this week.

(Also, I continue to believe this is an ending, but not the ending.)
posted by sparkletone at 5:53 PM on August 27, 2015


I'm hoping that with Mads apparently blowing up in the US, more people will become fans of his and decide to check Hannibal out.
posted by showbiz_liz at 5:55 PM on August 27, 2015


His Star Wars movie helping us out in this regard would be kind of hilarious, but also very welcome.
posted by sparkletone at 5:57 PM on August 27, 2015


or just start watching Valhalla Rising on nonstop repeat
posted by Greg Nog at 5:57 PM on August 27, 2015


WELL NOW IT'S TIME TO SUFFER WITH THEM

If you feel like we haven't suffered, you should go back and re-read the megathread on the Blue that has our comments from Mizumono airing.
posted by sparkletone at 5:58 PM on August 27, 2015


LIL FRIENDYS 3x12.

I guess if anyone was wondering what Greg Nog thinks is gonna happen in the finale, this answers that. In song!
posted by sparkletone at 6:04 PM on August 27, 2015


I'm up for reading Hannibal Rising, which is easy for me to say, since I've never read it, but whatever. I'm excited to dive in to the rest of the canon.

But mostly I'm just terrified. Terrified because the end is near.

WE'RE SO CLOSE YOU GUYS.

*crossing my fingers that the live stream works*
posted by litera scripta manet at 6:15 PM on August 27, 2015


Love all you dorks. It's been a pleasure screaming incoherently with you, whatever the future may hold
posted by showbiz_liz at 6:21 PM on August 27, 2015


it holds murder sex in its bloody little hands
posted by poffin boffin at 6:29 PM on August 27, 2015


Now (t minus 30 minutes until DOOMSDAY) probably isn't the right time to get into logistics, but we're going to set this up as a club thing right? If so, have we decided on a name for the club yet?

Also, has anyone heard anything about adding books to fanfare since the MeTa a couple months ago? It's a long shot, but I know that fanfare started as a beta thing with only like two shows (Mad Men and GoT, I believe) so maybe they would consider letting us sort of test drive adding books to our Hannibal club. It's probably too much to hope for, but it could be worth checking into (unless someone has already asked about this, of course).
posted by litera scripta manet at 6:31 PM on August 27, 2015


HOLD ME, I AM NOT READY.

Also, given timezones, I'm at work for another 5 hours, so...
posted by crossoverman at 6:33 PM on August 27, 2015


In last-minute pre-episode ponderings (and no, I have actually managed to avoid even peeking at the trailer), I'm somewhat curious as to whether anything else about Dolarhyde's past will surface; there's so little time left (gah). I'm assuming some of Chilton & Will's observations must have struck some kind of mark, but while impugning someone's masculinity is gonna hit a target in a fair number of people, incest is a weirdly specific sort of thing to suggest. I don't actually necessarily feel that Dolarhyde's history needs more explanation (I'm entirely OK with a combination of self-imposed isolation, a vaguely-hinted at unhappy childhood resulting in self-hatred/a self-image as a monster, and mental illness eventually blossoming into the Great Red Dragon), but it's one of those points where as a viewer without any canon-context, I wonder whether there's some source material that the show is nodding to as something of an Easter egg?

(I also had some kind of vague commentary about how in the episodes when the show's been drawing most explicitly on Satan-related metaphors and imagery, Hannibal's in some ways further from a Miltonian Satan, as a character, than he was earlier in the show, and is arguably almost more like a Greek god - dangerous to humans particularly as a result of the ways in which he is most human, and most unable to restrain himself from entangling himself in human affairs. And so on! But really, all the dread/anticipation isn't helping me flesh this out, so frantic speculation it is!)
posted by ubersturm at 6:37 PM on August 27, 2015


anyone heard anything about adding books to fanfare since the MeTa a couple months ago

I haven't but then I very, very rarely look at MeTa. They did add podcasts as a thing you could post eventually after just being movies and TV for a while. Books seem like a natural addition to me.
posted by sparkletone at 6:41 PM on August 27, 2015


holy shit i am watching the livestream and it is currently showing 2 Broke Girls and it turns out this is literally the shittiest show ever made by humans
posted by Greg Nog at 6:51 PM on August 27, 2015 [3 favorites]


holy shit i am watching the livestream and it is currently showing 2 Broke Girls and it turns out this is literally the shittiest show ever made by humans

Clearly it is possible to take "WELL NOW IT'S TIME TO SUFFER WITH THEM" too much to heart!
posted by ubersturm at 6:53 PM on August 27, 2015


LIvestream? LIVESTREAM? LIVESTREAM FUCK YEAH omg it's showing two broke girls myeyesmyeyes

OK, I'll deal with it.

Hannibal. Hannibal. Hannibal. *shot of Jack Daniel's* Hannibal.
posted by Bringer Tom at 6:55 PM on August 27, 2015


Okay, let's do this!
posted by figurant at 7:00 PM on August 27, 2015


WELL THAT TOTALLY WASN'T IN THE BOOK.
posted by Bringer Tom at 7:18 PM on August 27, 2015


Don't live post about this week's episode in a previous thread please, it's against the rules. Hold it till the new thread is up. (Will report any further ones, and would've reported this one if it was spoilery.)
posted by sparkletone at 7:24 PM on August 27, 2015 [2 favorites]


*cough* sorry.
posted by Bringer Tom at 7:29 PM on August 27, 2015


There were certain advantages to the looser comment policy on the blue but at least our threads don't close after a few weeks here. :)
posted by sparkletone at 7:30 PM on August 27, 2015


I've only ever tried to read Revelation once. I was at a church service to which the school I went to (which was a perfectly ordinary comprehensive school with airs and graces) mandated attendance. As I had no interest in the service and was sitting next to John Balance at the time, reading Revelation seemed like the most appropriate thing to do.

The oddest thing about that is that it's completely true.

(Although at the time he was called Geff.)
posted by Grangousier at 4:54 PM on August 28, 2015


There will be no WhatTheFlick review for this week's episode specifically. Alonso tweeted that they will cover the final two episodes in one review this coming week, once the finale has aired in the US.
posted by crossoverman at 4:31 PM on August 29, 2015


Hopefully they can get Bryan on like they have before.
posted by sparkletone at 5:05 PM on August 29, 2015


Oh my god, I can't believe I did not know that all this was happening here, I am so so sad about missing it live.

But also, this is what I sent to a friend after this episode:
HEY DEE
HOW'S IT GOING
YOU OWE ME AWE
I HEARD YOU WERE SICK SO I BRUNG YOU SOUP
YOU OWE ME oh hey soup is nice
thanks for the soup
can i get back to torturing this dude now please
BEHOLD MY BECOMING

I laughed my ass off, I did. And then I cowered.
posted by athenasbanquet at 4:40 PM on August 31, 2015 [3 favorites]


Bryan Fuller: NBC, is this art?

NBC: ...art?

Bryan Fuller: You said that I, who see more than you, am insane. I, who have pushed the world so much further than you, am insane. I have dared more than you. I am the Hannibal showrunner, and you call me insane? Before me, you are a slug in the sun. You are privy to a great TV show and you recognize nothing. It is in your nature to do one thing correctly. Before me, you tremble. Fear is not what you owe me. You owe me awe.
posted by showbiz_liz at 9:47 PM on August 31, 2015 [5 favorites]


I owe you or what?
posted by Grangousier at 11:08 PM on August 31, 2015


They decided to combine the videos for 3x12 and 3x13, so WARNING: THIS DOES SPOIL THE HECK OUT OF THE FINALE, but The What The Flick review/recap is up.
posted by sparkletone at 9:10 AM on September 2, 2015


You know one reason why they made Dolarhyde so incredibly strong that he could just pick Will up and toss him like a ragdoll is: Rutina Wesley looks like she could just smash someone to bits if she felt like it. Yet we still get the sense that she's physically vulnerable e.g. in the soup-bringing Chilton scene. And the main source of her disadvantage seems to be her blindness.

Unless you take into account that no, Dolarhyde is like really REALLY strong, like REALLY as in SUPERPOWERS strong (despite not looking half so well muscled as her).

And of course also that she's not a violent person in any way, whereas he's used to fighting and will take it to greater extremes than she can imagine.
posted by tel3path at 9:58 AM on February 25, 2016


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