The Walking Dead: Thank You
October 25, 2015 8:46 PM - Season 6, Episode 3 - Subscribe

Rick and his group get caught up in a dangerous little town on the road back to Alexandria. Meanwhile, Daryl, Sasha and Abraham continue to lead away the remaining walkers away from the safe-zone.
posted by DirtyOldTown (167 comments total) 1 user marked this as a favorite
 
GLENNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think the people hoping he leaped into the dumpster at the last second or that it was Nicholas's guts we were seeing getting shredded are kidding themselves. Glenn got disemboweled and eaten and is dead now.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 8:48 PM on October 25, 2015


They don't spell out what they mean, but the producers say Steven Yeun isn't done with the show. I'm doubting that means he lived, though. Probably flashbacks. Or an off chance at zombie Glenn.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 8:50 PM on October 25, 2015


I AM VERY UPSET
posted by poffin boffin at 8:51 PM on October 25, 2015 [1 favorite]


Letting him come back from that would be a MASSIVE cop-out.

I'm just glad that other guy's dead, 'cause screw that other guy.
posted by Sys Rq at 8:52 PM on October 25, 2015 [1 favorite]


I assume it will be flashbacks or some sort of Maggie dream sequence.
posted by poffin boffin at 8:52 PM on October 25, 2015 [1 favorite]


Not sure how this will stack up to other opinions, but I thought Glenn's death was better here than in the comic. In the comic, his death was practically random, just a chance to show how horrible Negan is. On the show, it was the tragic cost of his neverending faith in people and of yet another heroic gamble, this one being a case where he lost horribly.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 8:57 PM on October 25, 2015 [7 favorites]


I think that last shot was definitely cut in a way that they can bring him back if they want to, although I think that the fake death is one of the cheapest moves a writer can make. The really bad part if he's actually dead is that he's one of the few tolerable characters on the show. He's competent, not super crazy, and not prone to melodrama. This only means more Rick time.
posted by codacorolla at 9:04 PM on October 25, 2015 [6 favorites]


I really don't think he's dead for two reasons: 1.) main character; 2.) main characters don't die ambiguously. ROT13 spoilers for comic book: Tyraa'f oehgny naq fghcvq qrngu va gur pbzvpf vf jul V fgbccrq ernqvat gung frevrf. V ernyyl ubcr ur tbrf bhg n qvssrerag jnl va gur fubj, ohg zl thrff vf gur cebqhpref bs gur fubj jba'g or noyr gb erfvfg urjvat gb gur pbzvp obbx sbe gung cnegvphyne qrngu.

So is Rick's hand infected now? Also, why no headshots for the Alexandrians that died so gruesomely. I feel that's the least they were owed for slowing down the herd for Michonne and her remaining group.
posted by longdaysjourney at 9:12 PM on October 25, 2015




What was the deal with Rick's hand?

They've been leading to this Glenn and whatever that other guys name is situation for a while now. Every time they were in the same scene I was waiting for him to attack Glenn or shoot him. He had already led them to a nothing place and seemed out of it. Glenn and Michonne are supposed to be smarter I think and listen to their instincts! That guy was waaay to squirmy. Not looking forward to zombie Glenn at all.
posted by mokeydraws at 9:15 PM on October 25, 2015


Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah not Glenn!

I'm torn between hoping that those were horrible Nicholas's guts and Glenn squeezed under the dumpster, or something, and hoping that we don't have a fake-out just for a dramatic fake-out's sake. Sigh. Part of me thinks it would be cool to explore a storyline where Glenn survived but is now just... broken. How would The Group cope? The rest of me thinks that Glenn's death was a good, complicating reminder that team Screw The Pacifists/Weaklings has really justifiable reasons for their stance (and that Glenn will just be in an odd flashback and, most figuratively, in his and Maggie's child...).

Question: was Rick bitten on the hand, or did he just cut it on the broken-off knife? I couldn't tell, but he was flailing the wounded hand around so much it clearly must be important.

We're meant to think the Wolves took Judith?. But if they did, that makes absolutely no sense. Who wants to lug a baby around?
posted by TwoStride at 9:19 PM on October 25, 2015


What was the deal with Rick's hand?

I think he sliced his hand open when his knife broke off at the hit when he was getting rid of the three zombies on the highway (either at that point, or when he grabbed the knife that was in the back of highway zombie #2).


We're meant to think the Wolves took Judith?

I think the baby food jar just tells Rick that the people who attacked him were at Alexandria? Maybe.

posted by longdaysjourney at 9:19 PM on October 25, 2015 [1 favorite]


That one guy got to Bill-Paxton-in-Aliens level whiny annoying. I legit expected him to say "GAME OVER, MAN!"

I do wonder if Rick is going to lose a hand.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:20 PM on October 25, 2015 [1 favorite]


I had to laugh at the scene where they pull back and show the herd. Georgia Northern Virginia is just so undeveloped, lol.
posted by longdaysjourney at 9:22 PM on October 25, 2015


Someone in a previous thread was talking about how reactionary this show really is, and I think Glenn's death really demonstrates that. Does the Nicholas arc demonstrate that the values espoused by Glenn can redeem someone from being a selfish and murdering coward, and a boon to the group? nope. They make him a gullible schmuck that gets killed trying to save a bunch of worthless people and their worthless society.

I can't think of a more wasteful use of a character who has been with Rick since day two.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:22 PM on October 25, 2015 [5 favorites]


You know, the atrocious notion that Glenn is alive seems more and more likely as more of these obviously pre-made, waiting-to-hit-post "is he really dead???" buzz-generators trickle out. I mean, why would they write those about a death that isn't on its face any more ambiguous than any of the others we've seen to date?

The A.V. Club one pointed out something, just as an aside, that seems almost smoking-gunny: The show didn't telegraph it. The show always telegraphs it. So either the writers suddenly got good, or...
posted by Sys Rq at 9:26 PM on October 25, 2015 [2 favorites]


Oh boy now that EW article has me all confused. I just thought that those were Glenn's guts. Hmmm not sure how I feel about that either way since he always seems to escape impossible situations.

I have to admit my heart was pounding for a good portion of this episode and that's how I like it. Looking forward to next week.
posted by mokeydraws at 9:27 PM on October 25, 2015 [1 favorite]


The problem I have with the Glenn Is Alive theory isn't the "those weren't his guts" part. It's the part after... "___________________________ and that's how Glenn, starting from his back, wriggled out from under a press of several dozen zombies."
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:31 PM on October 25, 2015 [1 favorite]


if it's because he's been a ghost the entire time i will be really mad
posted by poffin boffin at 9:37 PM on October 25, 2015 [9 favorites]


Could Glenn become TWD's Lady-Stoneheart-equivalent?

Separate note: what's the deal with lack of mercy killings for the lady who tripped and the dude who died at the fence?
posted by memento maury at 9:39 PM on October 25, 2015 [10 favorites]


Maaaaaaaybe Glenn got messed up and was effectively dead but still got away. That is maybe he got bit and was as good as dead, but still somehow makes it back to Maggie for a tragic goodbye.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:40 PM on October 25, 2015


The show didn't telegraph it. The show always telegraphs it. So either the writers suddenly got good, or...

Welllll, they did make semi-clear his wife is pregnant. Then he spoke repeatedly about needing to get home alive to her. And he had a quiet moment checking out the watch from Dale. And he called Rick with what sounded more than a bit like saying goodbye...
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:43 PM on October 25, 2015 [7 favorites]


I hope Glenn stumbles in two or three episodes from now wearing the spine and dessicated skull of Nicholas on his back like that henchman from Beyond Thunderdome
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:46 PM on October 25, 2015 [8 favorites]


One of the few episodes to feature a soundtrack, to great effect. (Sounded suitably John Carpenter-ish to me.)
posted by Catblack at 9:52 PM on October 25, 2015 [1 favorite]


I'm getting annoyed at the writer's using "wait, I couldn't see that clearly, was that a knife wound or did he get bitten?" as a tool to create drama.

Glenn was a good character, but they were never going to do anything with him except have him volunteer for some implausibly risky mission and worry about getting home to Maggie. Maybe they just felt they needed to thin the cast of old-timers. There's too many early season characters floating around to give any of them serious screen time.

Rick will be able to handle a swarm of a few thousand zombies with nothing more than his manly rage. Not worried.
posted by skewed at 10:04 PM on October 25, 2015 [1 favorite]


what's the deal with lack of mercy killings for the lady who tripped and the dude who died at the fence?

I'd like to think that was Michonne giving the kids a much-needed crash course in reality.

Really, though, I think it was just sloppy editing. Like, we saw too much of the gore before they ran away as opposed to after, so it seemed like they were standing there staring at it for way too long.
posted by Sys Rq at 10:06 PM on October 25, 2015


Did nobody think to check if the pet store had a back door?
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 10:13 PM on October 25, 2015


Did nobody think ... ?

No.
posted by Sys Rq at 10:27 PM on October 25, 2015 [15 favorites]


I've been watching this show for five years and one of the biggest stars gets (seemingly) eaten alive and I was just like, "Huh. That was odd". I just didn't care.
posted by lattiboy at 10:53 PM on October 25, 2015 [5 favorites]


[Just as a quick note on the rot13 thing: let's try to mostly avoid in Fanfare, since much of this at all could easily become a significant irritant to reading threads. Thanks.]
posted by taz at 10:56 PM on October 25, 2015 [7 favorites]


Someone in a previous thread was talking about how reactionary this show really is, and I think Glenn's death really demonstrates that.

*raises hand*

That was me, (unless someone else also did that), and this episode absolutely glowed with it from start to finish:
* Guy criticizing Rick in the opening? Toast.

* Guy who overheard Rick's awful, (though arguably - in this case - warranted), "Leave them behind" speech? Dressed down by Michonne, even though she didn't even agree with Rick's cavalier attitude. (Also yes, they're just some guys. I refuse to learn the names of the Alexandrites until they've survived a whole season.)

* If Glenn isn't dead, I'll eat... dunno. My doctor won't be happy if I make an eating related bet, but either way, he was proven wrong about Nicholas, and they took extra pains to drive it home with the whole "You're not that guy anymore" speech right beforehand. Like, hammering it in case anybody missed the message.

* The jar of baby food was to show Rick that the Wolves had hit Alexandria, so he has a reason to be extra mad at Morgan. Also, those were definitely the Wolves Morgan permitted to walk, as one of them shot at Rick via the gun he looted at the end of JSS, just to be extra clear that mercy is suicidal weakness.

*sigh*

This episode was in full on crazy reactionary wet dream territory, like Rick is that kid from It's A Good Life or something.

Other thoughts:
* Despite how disgusted I am behind the message of Glenn's death scene here, it does indeed still beat the shit in the comics. (I hung in there a few more issues, but that's where I checked out too. I didn't mind them killing off a favorite character - they did that all the time - but it was *so* dumb.)

* The timing in this episode made zero sense to me. Morgan got back to town with absolutely no problem, but the rest of them didn't even seem to know which way to go. The endless running around was sort of baffling to me, and really detracted from any lingering fun the episode might have had even if it were not espousing such a horrible, disheartening message. (Lends credence to my theory that Morgan is TWD's Batman.)
posted by mordax at 11:41 PM on October 25, 2015 [5 favorites]


NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.gif
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 2:42 AM on October 26, 2015 [1 favorite]


Glenn has always been one of the most resourceful people on TWD, right from his first appearance. Even last week commenters here were complaining about the gang not using car horns, which was a trick Glenn used back near the very beginning. Yet he gets stuck on a dumpster? I was waiting for him to leap to that block wall, which looked quite doable. And to let Nicholas pull him down? I am filled with apathetic nerdrage.

I'm a volume behind on the comics, and now I'm not looking forward to reading the next one.

His death was telegraphed enough that I started to worry from the pet shop that he would die, and then thought, "no, they wouldn't kill one of the most useful characters." But I guess they can't have anyone on the show questioning the poor decisions Rick already makes. We have Daryl and Michonne for that now.

The three black characters a) ended up together and b) all survived. The producers may have learned something (not on Fear the Walking Dead, but that's another story). And all those nameless Alexandrians stood no chance anyway. Bunch of red jerseys from the get-go. Alexandria is a whole town of red jerseys.
posted by tracicle at 2:55 AM on October 26, 2015 [2 favorites]


So, I take it everyone has also forgotten that if you cover yourself in walker guts, the walkers ignore you, even in a herd? Even though Carol used that techinique to save them from Terminus mere weeks or months previously? And they had plenty of time to gut some walkers while they were dicking around with dead cars?

And Michonne has forgotten that if you cut the hands and jaw off a walker and lead them around on a rope, they camoflage you? Even though that's how she survived on her own for months in the open, and she still thinks about it constantly?

And Michonne, survivor extrordinary, doesn't think to check the cupboards in the petshop (full of empty cages because someone has eaten all the pets and obviously there are fucking zombies in the fucking cupboard)?

Why do we do this to ourselves?
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 4:26 AM on October 26, 2015 [24 favorites]


Guy who overheard Rick's awful, (though arguably - in this case - warranted), "Leave them behind" speech? Dressed down by Michonne, even though she didn't even agree with Rick's cavalier attitude.

And that's Rick being right again. They didn't all make it. Two of them - two - didn't hear zombies walk up right behind them. Another shot a fourth one in the leg because they were an incompetent shot. Nicholas basically pulled a murder suicide on Glenn. Glenn's death is entirely attributable to trying to save the idiots.

The show is basically, "Rick is always right, even though he be totes cray. Just kill and eat everyone".
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 4:31 AM on October 26, 2015 [2 favorites]


Rick is always right, but let's not forget this (terrible, no good, worst idea ever) plot to herd the herd was his from the start.

In other news... what was up with the Darryl subplot? Something about Alexandria being his home vs his dedication to Rick and the crew, sure. But it all seemed so trivial because I had no idea why he needed to stay with Abraham and Sasha so badly.
posted by 2ht at 5:08 AM on October 26, 2015 [1 favorite]


Whyyyy is it so hard to just stay still and quiet in the pet store until they lose interest and move on? Zombies don't have super-hearing, they can't hear your breathing. But no, let's clamor around right next to the door and exclaim THEY HEAR US.
posted by Windigo at 5:29 AM on October 26, 2015 [9 favorites]


This being the first season I've watched more than a few episodes concurrently, it seems to me that half the fun is in applying a minimal amount of thought and using the show's own previous interior logic to come up with plans that are miles better than the protagonists'. I guess that's a happy side effect of terrible, terrible writing. It makes the show interactive for the fans.
posted by codacorolla at 6:20 AM on October 26, 2015 [6 favorites]


One of my nagging complaints about this show is that the zombies aren't as consistently dangerous or menacing as they should be. I've lost count of how many times a character has been holding a zombie at arm's length, just waiting to be rescued, while the zombie bites the air uselessly. It happened again last night. These people aren't wearing armor or even long sleeves in many cases--no way the zombie doesn't rip out a piece of an arm, or get a bite in.

What I'm getting at is, if Glenn isn't dead, that is such a huge erosion of the zombie fear factor. Sure, his torso may be covered by Nicholas. What about his arms and legs? His exposed head? Not one of the dozens of zombies gets a single bite? What happens when the zombies eat through Nicholas (it's a giant mob, that should happen at least in spots in short order)--they are going to stop and leave Glenn totally unscathed?

My sense is that Glenn isn't really dead, but the characters will think he is. We'll get a Morgan episode next week, and then at some point (based on the statement on the Talking Dead) Glenn will just show up. I don't think we'll ever actually see his escape. But I hope I'm wrong.
posted by mama casserole at 6:23 AM on October 26, 2015 [1 favorite]


Heath has the makings of a leader, I think. I can even see him filling Glenn's shoes, eventually.

Speaking of which: that scene had me shouting "NO, YOU DON'T GET TO KILL GLENN, STOP DOING THAT" at the screen. Granted, it's been a long time since they've killed off a major character—and if you treat the main characters as invincible, then there are no longer any stakes. But, man—that pizza boy had crawled into my heart like a worm burrowing into a walker. RIP.

Rick, even in his current deranged state, is still the center of the show—he's been there since the first shot of the first episode. Honestly, they should have killed him off—preferably by having his trigger-happy ways backfire on him. At the very least, people need to stop following his orders. He's no longer capable of making good decisions.

There isn't much left of Alexandria at this point, is there? According to the wiki, we lost five Alexandrians in this episode (to the herd), and about fourteen in the previous episode (to the raiding Wolves). Between the herd, the Wolves operating in the area, and the decimation of their numbers, I wouldn't be surprised if the surviving protagonists abandon Alexandria and go searching for safer harbor.

The whole situation could have been avoided if Rick had come up with a more measured plan to deal with the walkers in the quarry—Alexandria would have had several more highly experienced fighters on hand when the Wolves arrived, and the herd might not have become the massive threat that it is now.

I wonder when we'll catch up with Enid.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 6:25 AM on October 26, 2015


Something that has bothered me from the very beginning, and only continues to annoy me:

Look, I get that they're in the South and that it's hot as balls. That said, why is everyone always dressing in shorts and tees and tanks? If it were the zombie apocalypse, I'd be wearing knee-high leather boots. A leather jacket with a high collar. A fabric scarf, if nothing else, would deflect like 75% of the zombie attacks that happen. Daryl is the only one who dresses in any way with practicality.

But well, I guess it'd be a much less exciting show if everyone was dropping from heat stroke instead of zombie bites.
posted by Windigo at 6:27 AM on October 26, 2015


Cringiest line of the night: "The horn stopped. GOOD." It is bad writing in itself, and Lincoln's delivery was painful.
posted by mama casserole at 6:28 AM on October 26, 2015 [4 favorites]


OK, I'm actually reading the thread now. Wait, what? People think Glenn might not be dead? Did you watch the same show that I did?!

Because in the show I watched, Glenn was laying on the ground, in the middle of a massive herd, screaming in agony and terror as multiple walkers tore strips of flesh from his body. He is incredibly dead. Perhaps he'll show up later as a walker, but he is dead.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 6:32 AM on October 26, 2015 [3 favorites]


Because in the show I watched, Glenn was laying on the ground, in the middle of a massive herd, screaming in agony and terror as multiple walkers tore strips of flesh from his body.

Glenn is lying in the middle of a massive herd, cringing (not screaming) as walkers tear strips of flesh from someone's body.

The scene is deliberately ambiguous about who is getting ripped apart there.
posted by mama casserole at 6:35 AM on October 26, 2015 [1 favorite]


If they pull a gambit where the other dude fell on top of him and got ripped apart, covering Glen with blood and guts, thus letting him live...I will be so annoyed. Especially because it'd be FRESH blood and not zombie blood.
posted by Windigo at 6:40 AM on October 26, 2015 [1 favorite]


The scene is deliberately ambiguous about who is getting ripped apart there.

I just watched it again, and IMHO it's really a stretch to say that there's anything ambiguous about it. And if it does turn out that Glenn survived, that'll be a massive cop-out. Really, writers—hiding crucial information (whose guts are those?) just outside of the camera frame isn't clever. It's just a cheap trick.

I guess we'll find out soon enough.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 6:44 AM on October 26, 2015


Again, let me ask: let's say we believe that is Nicholas's flesh being torn apart, not Glenn's.

How does Glenn get out from under a full-on press of several dozen (if not several hundred) ravenous zombies? And while starting from stunned and on his back? Even if we accept "that was Nicholas's body" as how Glenn got from point A (falling onto his back) to Point B (not being the guy getting eaten there), how the hell does he get to point C (getting up off his back and pushing out from the horde without getting bit)?

Is there a theory that explains that?

It's a bit like a character getting shot and being pushed out of a plane with no chute. Even if you come up with an explanation for how he wasn't really shot, he's still freefalling with no chute.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 6:49 AM on October 26, 2015


I just watched it again, and IMHO it's really a stretch to say that there's anything ambiguous about it.
  • We see Glenn and Nicholas fall in such a way that Nicholas could land on top of Glenn
  • At no point do we clearly see Glenn's body, or even the color of the clothes
  • Glenn is only wincing and crying, not screaming
  • The walkers rip out what look to be intestines. If they are Glenn's intestines, they are located right below his collarbone
  • When the shot pans out it shows just one pile of human, not two, furthering the theory that Glenn and Nicholas are in a stack
There are other clues as well. Usually main character deaths are telegraphed and occur at the end of the episode. Here, there was very little by way of sendoff to Glenn (just that moment by himself with Herschel's watch), and his "death" occurred 10 minutes before the episode ended. Then, there was a lot of ambiguity on The Talking Dead (spoilers coming): Steven Yeun did not appear on the show, his character was not included in the "in memoriam" segment, and there was a vague statement from the producer about how we'll see Glenn "or parts of him" again.

And if it does turn out that Glenn survived, that'll be a massive cop-out. Really, writers—hiding crucial information (whose guts are those?) just outside of the camera frame isn't clever. It's just a cheap trick.

100% agree.
posted by mama casserole at 6:54 AM on October 26, 2015 [1 favorite]


Is there a theory that explains that?

Same way every character that has calmly walked through a herd did it: by being smeared with blood and guts and staggering slowly.
posted by poffin boffin at 7:02 AM on October 26, 2015


I almost regret throwing away the comics for being so unbearably bad because then at least I would have been more prepared for this crap but on the other hand I would have had to continue reading unbearably bad comics so really either way who wins, not me.
posted by poffin boffin at 7:03 AM on October 26, 2015 [1 favorite]




I realize it doesn't necessarily mean a thing, but Steven Yeun is still listed on iMDB through every episode this season on WD.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:14 AM on October 26, 2015


So, I take it everyone has also forgotten that if you cover yourself in walker guts, the walkers ignore you, even in a herd?

*forehead slap*

Not to mention S1E2 was called "Guts."

To leave us to read the entrails for clues to Glenn's fate was a shit way to end the episode.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 7:19 AM on October 26, 2015


I believe the established precedent is that if you cover yourself in walker blood and guts, you become effectively invisible.

My guess if you cover yourself in still living/died seconds ago blood and guts is that you become deliciously marinated. More like how blood draws sharks to the water.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:24 AM on October 26, 2015 [3 favorites]


FWIW, I am about half-convinced by y'all at this point that they do intend to save Glenn. I'm not even arguing specifically that y'all are wrong that this is the case. I'm only arguing generally that it would be fantastically, stupidly preposterous.

It is seeming more and more plausible to me that the writers have opted to be fantastically, stupidly preposterous, though.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:30 AM on October 26, 2015 [1 favorite]


Re: Rick's cut

At first I didn't know whether it was a bite or a cut and right after it looked for a minute like he was going to cut off his own hand! But then he didn't so you know it was a cut. Good thing Alexandria has antibiotics!


Also, about Glen being dead, I kind of had a feeling that he was going to be the one to go next because 1) someone from the main group dies every season and 2) he seemed like he was the low guy on the totem pole. He barely had any scenes compared to Daryl and Michonne and he was starting to seem like one of the background characters. Although I will be pleasantly surprised if he is alive because I don't want him to die and I just keep seeing his screaming face and I get so sad.
posted by LizBoBiz at 7:34 AM on October 26, 2015


It is seeming more and more plausible to me that the writers have opted to be fantastically, stupidly preposterous, though.

and

I believe the established precedent is that if you cover yourself in walker blood and guts, you become effectively invisible.

...I submit for consideration a potential scenario for how Glenn saves himself - he manages get a hand free to pull out his knife and slice open the belly of one of the walkers feasting on Nicky boy so its guts start spilling out. He slathers his face in the walker guts and plays possum, or wriggles himself free while slathering himself.

I've come to the conclusion that my weekly catharsis is yelling about this show.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 7:54 AM on October 26, 2015 [2 favorites]


Rick, even in his current deranged state, is still the center of the show—he's been there since the first shot of the first episode. Honestly, they should have killed him off—preferably by having his trigger-happy ways backfire on him. At the very least, people need to stop following his orders. He's no longer capable of making good decisions.

I predict that Maggie and Deanna will bond further over the deaths of their husbands, and will increasingly blame Rick. This along with Rick's plan gone horribly awry will allow them to wrest control from Rick, and set up a new dynamic - Alexandrians plus Maggie vs. Team Rick. They'll spend the rest of the season trying to sway the moderates (Michonne, Daryl, Aaron, new guy with glasses) to their respective sides.
posted by lyssabee at 7:59 AM on October 26, 2015


In my secret heart of hearts I wonder if Glenn will come back as a walker and Maggie will have to take him down.
posted by lyssabee at 8:01 AM on October 26, 2015 [1 favorite]


I'm always surprised to see people say Rick is too far gone and should be eliminated and replaced with a newer character. Not because I disagree morally. I don't. How could anyone? But because the point of both the comic and the show has, to my estimation, always been the psychological toll that an ongoing apocalypse like this one would take on people. Typical zombie stories take place over the course of a handful of days, maybe week or a few months at most. The Walking Dead has always been about what it does to people for the horror to be continuous, for the heroes to not only never reach the finish line but to lose more and more of themselves along the way.

Of course we're going to stay with the one guy as long as possible, to see how bad it gets over the longest possible timeline.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 8:04 AM on October 26, 2015 [3 favorites]


I understand that much, I'm just sick of Rick. I'm tired of seeing his gawking idiot face, and having to watch the consequences of his insane ideas.
posted by codacorolla at 8:21 AM on October 26, 2015 [8 favorites]


They'll spend the rest of the season trying to sway the moderates (Michonne, Daryl, Aaron, new guy with glasses) to their respective sides.

The team questions Rick's leadership, but will a new threat compel everyone to rise above their personal squabbles for the good of the group?
posted by Rat Spatula at 8:22 AM on October 26, 2015 [6 favorites]


I hear you, codacorolla. I guess there are probably two paths a conversation on "Should Rick stay/stay alive/stay in charge?" can go: what's best for these people/this world; and what serves the story.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 8:25 AM on October 26, 2015


RE Rick's Hand:
So here's what I saw.
Rick was running down the road. The three zombies come at him. He breaks his knife off in the first one's head. (Really, a folder. Who uses a folding blade to puncture hard bone?). With the knife broken, Rick has to delay the second zombie by pushing against its chest. Sticking out of the chest was the blade end of a kukri or some kind of machete. His hand was right up against the blade. When I saw that, I was about to be pissed that he did that and wasn't going to be hurt at all. When he actually had a seriously cut hand, I began to wonder when the makers of the show decided to become interested in verisimilitude.

Despite that one bit of reality leaking in . . .
HEADSHOTS! For the love of god, put bullets in the brains of people getting eaten. Please.
Also, it never occurred to me that Glenn might not be dead until reading this. Glenn was one of the few characters that didn't make me cringe constantly. But, if they decided to make him wiggle out of that, I will be pissed.
Rick . . . fucking Rick. The writers teased me over and over and over with the potential for a dead Rick. Was a cut from a knife that had been run through a zombie equivalent to a bite? is he gonna turn. Ooooh, maybe the wolves will kill . . . nope. No luck there. OH YES! The herd is coming, the motor won't start and the RV might be compromised from all of the bullet holes and whatnot. Aw fuck, the credits are rolling. Oh, Rick.
posted by Seamus at 8:53 AM on October 26, 2015


If Glenn is still alive I'm gonna be pissed. Even if he did manage to duck under the dumpster at the last minute, where does he go from there? Does he just live under a dumpster now?

At this point I would welcome a bottle episode that did nothing but show Rick taking a shower and a long nap. Poor guy, no wonder his son is insufferable.
posted by bondcliff at 8:57 AM on October 26, 2015 [1 favorite]


If Glenn is dead, no one will be mourning him for some time, as the only other person with him is also dead. No one saw him die. He will be assumed to be lost or injured, and people will be afraid he is dead. But there will be no proof, unless/until they run into him as a walker.
posted by QuakerMel at 8:58 AM on October 26, 2015 [1 favorite]


The other thing that the A/V Club video thing discussed was that Nicholas had essentially sacrificed himself to be bait and deliberately fell on top of Glenn. But Nicholas, even with all his scouting, wouldn't know about the guts-as-camouflage thing, would he? I don't think he would know enough about the zombies for that to be his plan.
posted by tracicle at 9:05 AM on October 26, 2015


If Glenn is dead, no one will be mourning him for some time, as the only other person with him is also dead. No one saw him die. He will be assumed to be lost or injured, and people will be afraid he is dead. But there will be no proof, unless/until they run into him as a walker.

This is another strong narrative hint that he'll be back somehow. It would be a huge FU to Glenn to have him die that way, and to Maggie not to have closure. Her search for Glenn on the way to Terminus was poignant, and that included her determination to find him (un)dead or alive (she was prepared to have to brain him when they opened that school bus of walkers on the way). I cannot see the showrunners just having Michonne go back and say "Welp, no idea what happened, but he said he'd give a sign and he didn't, sooo..."

(His saying he'd give a sign was another bit of foreshadowing--does he have a flare gun with him?--along with Michonne's talk of being covered in blood and you don't know if it's yours, a walker's, or your friend's.)
posted by mama casserole at 9:06 AM on October 26, 2015 [1 favorite]


Glenn: Please, I need to live.
Zombie: Grar?
Glenn: True love.
Zombie: Graaar... graaar raaagh grrragh.
*Zombies clear a path for the new Dread Pirate Glenn*
posted by delfin at 9:07 AM on October 26, 2015 [20 favorites]


Zombie #1 to Zombie #2: He distinctly said, "To blaaaaaave."
Zombie #2: *shrugs*
posted by tracicle at 9:09 AM on October 26, 2015 [14 favorites]


Glenn is definitely zombie food now (in a zombie's stomach? But they don't need stomachs to live. Do they digest human flesh with enzymes present in their mucous membranes?), but will also definitely definitely come back to life, having escaped through the kind of magic that keeps TWD regulars alive, and it will definitely be lazy writing.

But hey, at least all 3 episodes of this season so far have been action packed adventures full of stress! Remember the first half of season 4 when everyone was dying from some kind of affliction and there was a silly subplot about how that little girl was totes a blossoming blonde serial killer and they somehow postponed the real showdown with the governor for an entire half-season? I'll take this version of lazy writing over that.
posted by dis_integration at 9:34 AM on October 26, 2015 [5 favorites]


Maybe the Walking Dead's writing is itself a metaphor for the experience of the show's characters? How will the experience of a lazily written but still somehow attractive and adrenaline pumping show that repeats the same agonizing themes over and over again, marching forward on its dumb way, steady, predictable and zombielike, transform its viewers psychologically, who, despite the loss of any hope that things will improve, continue to watch instead of turning it off (the metaphorical TWD suicide)?
posted by dis_integration at 9:41 AM on October 26, 2015 [6 favorites]


Remember the first half of season 4 when everyone was dying from some kind of affliction and there was a silly subplot about how that little girl was totes a blossoming blonde serial killer and they somehow postponed the real showdown with the governor for an entire half-season? I'll take this version of lazy writing over that.

As long as Glenn isn't stuck in a barn while everyone is out looking for him.
posted by memento maury at 9:45 AM on October 26, 2015 [9 favorites]


Everything is pointing to Glenn not being dead. It isn't really all that surprising to me since Rick got out of being surrounded by hundreds of walkers in the first two episodes, Tyrese fought his way out of a pretty decent crowd, with a hammer, and since covering yourself in guts can be any innards, it doesn't have to be walker guts. In that episode (Guts), they just grabbed a dead guy off the street. It wasn't a walker. Coupled with the Talking Dead statement and the framing, it's just too much of a to-do for him to just be dead.

Aside from that, can we please, please do away with the "Woman sprains her ankle while moving" trope? It is just so incredibly tired. That woman was like "just leave me here" after an ankle sprain! The sprain itself was just a ridiculous trope to pull at this stage in the show (it isn't the first time they've done this), but to then say someone would say "just leave me here" after a mild ankle sprain that came from walking, is just unbelievable nonsense that somehow keeps getting foisted onto female characters. It needs to stop, it really does.
posted by cashman at 9:49 AM on October 26, 2015 [21 favorites]


Aside from that, can we please, please do away with the "Woman sprains her ankle while moving" trope? It is just so incredibly tired. That woman was like "just leave me here" after an ankle sprain! The sprain itself was just a ridiculous trope to pull at this stage in the show (it isn't the first time they've done this), but to then say someone would say "just leave me here" after a mild ankle sprain that came from walking, is just unbelievable nonsense that somehow keeps getting foisted onto female characters. It needs to stop, it really does.

QFT.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:10 AM on October 26, 2015 [6 favorites]


Yeah man why don't dudes ever sprain their ankles?! I'm about to start some serious ankle strengthening exercises in case I'm ever in a position where I'm running for my life. Who's with me? Tara has sprained her ankle multiple times. And no one ever says hey, by the way, I have really weak ankles so just know in advance that you'll have to carry my pretty little self at some point.

So lets say Glenn was able to scramble under that garbage bin. Won't he have to stay under that damn thing a really long time before the zombies lose interest. By which point he will have died and become a zombie stuck under a garbage bin.

I also predict a zombied Glen and Maggie having to do the deed. Maybe after he bites her. I also really don't like the idea of Glenn dying in a way where no one has any closure. Even sure I'm sure it happens a lot in this world.
posted by mokeydraws at 10:10 AM on October 26, 2015


The woman with the sprained ankle was limping more than the guy with a gunshot wound in his leg. Just saying.

Last season, didn't we have a very deliberate camera shot where Abraham got nicked by a knife that had zombie guts on it? Then there were a few times in subsequent episodes where that wound was hinted at? And then nothing came of it?

If Rick cut his hand on that blade it's the same sort of thing. But that's assuming some continuity... A slow zombified death would be SUCH a shocking way to Kill off Rick.
posted by 2ht at 10:44 AM on October 26, 2015 [1 favorite]


When I watched it, it seemed clear Glenn died, but after reading this thread and rewatching the scene I'm 99% sure he'll survive. The framing of the shot was awkward in just the right way for them to pull it back (note Nicholas was wearing very similarly colored shirt, too).

The other thing that the A/V Club video thing discussed was that Nicholas had essentially sacrificed himself to be bait and deliberately fell on top of Glenn.

Even if Glenn does survive (which certainly would be a dirty trick/cop out), I can't even imagine them trying to make a serious case for this being part of a plan on Nicholas' part to save him.

I'm not totally sure what the show's intended reading on his final actions are--he never ran away and abandoned others to save himself, but it was obvious he did give up and decided to check out. Since it was clearly a no-win situation barring divine intervention/invulnerable plot armor, I'm unclear if that's supposed to be a damning choice for a character on this show. Glenn's faith in Nicholas' competence was clearly misplaced, but that's a separate issue.

I have a feeling Glenn may be the first original core character to die someday, but this is at least the 3rd or 4th time he's been in what should be a certain death situation and it feels like writers are just screwing with us now, thinking it might make his eventual death even more shocking , but if that's true, they've now officially overplayed that card with this scene.
posted by Pryde at 10:56 AM on October 26, 2015


But there will be no proof, unless/until they run into him as a walker.

And this would itself be incredibly contrived; somehow out of a horde of thousands, Maggie runs across Glenn again? No way. Which is probably one of the biggest hints, to me, that he's not dead.

None of the previous deaths on TWD have had this level of ambiguity and misdirection, seemingly intentional, from the show itself (and Talking Dead). So the only reason I can think of for it to be present this time is that Glenn escapes. I have no idea how that would be possible, but that's what I'm expecting. I mean it makes no sense but I'm not sure why else the show would be so cagey about it. Think about previous main character deaths:

Herschel. Noah. Beth. Bob. Andrea. Dale. Shane. Lori. Merle. The Governor.

None of them made me go "Wait, what?"

Last season, didn't we have a very deliberate camera shot where Abraham got nicked by a knife that had zombie guts on it? Then there were a few times in subsequent episodes where that wound was hinted at? And then nothing came of it?

Abraham's hand was to indicate his inner violence. Every time it almost healed he'd bust it open pounding somebody. I don't think Rick's hand really means anything other than to indicate how much his rhetoric about "not taking chances" is not really true. He actually does believe in Alexandria, or wants to; nobody runs however many miles that was and gets that beat up for something they don't care about. He'd just go back and get his people if he didn't care.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 10:57 AM on October 26, 2015 [1 favorite]


So lets say Glenn was able to scramble under that garbage bin. Won't he have to stay under that damn thing a really long time before the zombies lose interest.

Not if someone comes to his rescue in the nick of time. Which is exactly the sort of thing this show would do. My guess is Wolves, 'cause, you know, how could it not be? They're the big bad, um...wolves...this season and we still don't know what's up with them other than their fondness for dismemberment and the letter W. Plus, Glenn interacting with the Wolves would be a logical escalation of his whole deal with Nicholas.
posted by Sys Rq at 10:58 AM on October 26, 2015


What if these instances where Rick and Abraham and whoever else gets zombie blood in their bloodstream is the answer to the cure? It's slowly finding its way into their bloodstream but it's not enough to kill them. Their immune system fights it off little by little until they are immune. Although not sure how that would work. I do think that Rick will die at some point. How long can this show go on anyway. Even Law and Order was cancelled.
posted by mokeydraws at 11:02 AM on October 26, 2015


I have a feeling Glenn may be the first original core character to die

I hate to tell you, but plenty of original core characters have died on this show already.
posted by cashman at 11:03 AM on October 26, 2015 [3 favorites]


So lets say Glenn was able to scramble under that garbage bin. Won't he have to stay under that damn thing a really long time before the zombies lose interest.

I thought that Glenn calling Rick “dumb ass” was supposed to be a call-back to when Rick got himself stuck in the tank in the first season. I’m 99% sure that is the only time Glenn ever said that to Rick, and it just seemed so out of place. And that makes me think Glenn doesn’t end up under the dumpster, but inside it, like Rick was in the tank. But I can’t remember how Rick got out, so I’m not sure where that leaves Glenn in my little theory….
posted by Sabby at 11:09 AM on October 26, 2015 [2 favorites]


Huh... I just realized that Nick and Glenn were up on a dumpster. That they could have opened the top of. And hid with relative security inside.

It's like the establishing shot down the alley with the barely obstructed fire escape on one side. I understand what they're trying to do - they want to create tension, and easy solutions don't lead to tension. But if that's the case, then don't put infuriatingly obvious solutions on the camera where it just seems like your characters are idiots instead of normal people in hard situations! That's simply lazy directing!
posted by codacorolla at 11:13 AM on October 26, 2015 [3 favorites]


I can’t remember how Rick got out

Climbed out of the top and made a run for it while the walkers were having Horseburgers and hoof dogs.
posted by cashman at 11:18 AM on October 26, 2015 [1 favorite]


Look, I get that they're in the South and that it's hot as balls. That said, why is everyone always dressing in shorts and tees and tanks? If it were the zombie apocalypse, I'd be wearing knee-high leather boots. A leather jacket with a high collar. A fabric scarf, if nothing else, would deflect like 75% of the zombie attacks that happen. Daryl is the only one who dresses in any way with practicality.

And OF COURSE, even when the women's clothes provides the same level of coverage as the men's, it has to be painted on like a second skin. Because that's just more PRACTICAL, right? We need to be able to SEE if they have a two-inch piece of string in their pockets!

And did I call it or not on how totally dumbass it was of Morgan to let those three Wolves go on their merry way last week?
posted by The Underpants Monster at 11:24 AM on October 26, 2015 [1 favorite]


I hate to tell you, but plenty of original core characters have died on this show already.

Haha, true. I guess I blocked out Andrea, Dale, Lori and Shane since I liked exactly none of those characters. I'm actually fond of Glenn.
posted by Pryde at 11:25 AM on October 26, 2015 [1 favorite]


I guess I blocked out Andrea, Dale, Lori and Shane

Amy? Jacqui? Jim? Ed?

Think about previous main character deaths: Herschel. Noah. Beth. Bob. Andrea. Dale. Shane. Lori. Merle. The Governor.

My man T-Dog was on the show for as long as the main character's wife, and just gets forgotten. Oh the IronE.
posted by cashman at 11:31 AM on October 26, 2015 [7 favorites]


And Hershel, Beth, Tyreese, Bob...
posted by escape from the potato planet at 11:34 AM on October 26, 2015


As an asian, I'm done with this show.

DONE.
posted by numaner at 11:38 AM on October 26, 2015 [2 favorites]


As a Caucasian, I feel pretty well represented so I'm hanging on for now.
posted by delfin at 11:39 AM on October 26, 2015 [4 favorites]


Look, I get that they're in the South and that it's hot as balls. That said, why is everyone always dressing in shorts and tees and tanks?

Along with the boots, I'm not clear on why everyone doesn't at least run around with bracers on their forearms. You can make them strong enough to be bite-proof with all kinds of stuff - duct tape and cardboard if it comes down to it.

It would let you parry bites from those surprise walkers while you get your knife out.

So why don't...oh yeah. This show.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 11:49 AM on October 26, 2015 [2 favorites]


And Hershel, Beth, Tyreese, Bob...

Tyreese's death is a good argument for why Glenn is still alive and kicking under a pile of Nicholas-guts. Think about how heartfelt and long and drawn out his death was, with lots of flashbacks and ghosts appearing, and how they tried to save him through amputation but couldn't. I loved Tyreese, he was one of my favorite characters, but Glenn is even more important to the show, so they can't just let him go out like that. Not a single hallucinatory flashback to some sexytimes with Maggie? Not a single witness. Glenn lives and breathes, and will be back before the end of the season. I predict his return around the time of the midseason finale, perhaps in the last few minutes before the credits.
posted by dis_integration at 11:50 AM on October 26, 2015 [2 favorites]


Look, I get that they're in the South and that it's hot as balls. That said, why is everyone always dressing in shorts and tees and tanks?

The real question is how many years Carl is going to age before winter comes. (There's probably a really good Game of thrones joke there somewhere.)
posted by DirtyOldTown at 12:07 PM on October 26, 2015 [2 favorites]


When I saw it last night, I assumed Glenn would die, but that he hadn't yet. mama cassarole is right that we clearly see the walkers eating intestines, and that is happening right below Glenn's head. They aren't neccesarily chomping on Glenn yet. We only know for sure that they are eating Nicholas. And I don't remember Glenn screaming, just wincing and looking afraid. If he manages to escape it won't be the dumbest thing the show has done. It wouldn't be hard to write--you could go with:

1) A loud noise attracts most of the crowd away, leaving just a few for Glenn to kill.
2) Glenn guts a walker, covers himself with guts and joins the crowd.
3) He jumps up, stabs the nearest walkers, jumps back onto the Dumpster and then to that nearby wall,

There's all unlikely as hell and different high degrees of stupid, but I can imagine it happening. Honestly, I like Glenn enough that I probably won't gripe too much about it. If the show is going to be frequently dumb, it might as well be dumb in a way that saves the characters I like instead of killing them.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 12:17 PM on October 26, 2015 [8 favorites]


When the zombocalypse comes, head on down to the local martial arts store for all of your armored forearm needs.
Leather jackets might be a bit hot, but damn, at least wear a tough canvas coat. tear out the lining if you need to.
And for the Zombie under the bed, snake gaiters.
The clothing thing has been the cause of many sighs in my living room.
posted by Seamus at 12:19 PM on October 26, 2015 [2 favorites]


A fabric scarf, if nothing else, would deflect like 75% of the zombie attacks that happen.

This is Wu Tang Clan's advice for the zombie apocalypse.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 12:33 PM on October 26, 2015 [2 favorites]


Au Contraire, This is Wu Tang Clan's clothing advice for the zombie apocalypse.
posted by cashman at 12:36 PM on October 26, 2015 [1 favorite]


"When I watched it, it seemed clear Glenn died, but after reading this thread and rewatching the scene I'm 99% sure he'll survive."
Agreed. And as annoying as that is from a writing standpoint, I will overlook it because I want Glenn to live! Live, Glenn, live!!!

Here's something that's been bothering me since last week: After Morgan magically gets back to Alexandria before everyone else, why does he not warn anyone about the approaching zombie horde? I know he's busy not killing the wolves, but then he appears to just walk away? I hope he takes ten seconds to tell Carol, "hey, thousands of quarry zombies are on their way, later."
Also:
I think the wolf in the RV had a jar of baby food in his pocket. Not applesauce. Rick saw it and realized the wolves had been at Alexandria, Judith was at risk, etc. He already knew there were crazy people with "Ws" roaming in the woods, knew the loud horde was a sign of some nearby distress, and then the jar was confirmation the wolves had attacked.
posted by areaperson at 12:47 PM on October 26, 2015 [2 favorites]


Also here's just a few things Nicholaus could have done if he wasn't the absolute worst:
Just admit he doesn't know how to get around the town. Because he obviously didn't! Or he could throw himself to the crowd to help draw attention from Glenn
Start a fire! Remember the fire, guys? anyone? fire?

Other thoughts: Poor weak-ankle woman should have shot herself rather than the approaching zombies. RIP.
Couldn't they mercy kill the dead guy trapped against the fence? Jeez, that was a brutal one. I also thought his zombie bite would be put to use somehow - like he would stay as bait in the pet store, or throw himself to the crowds to save Michonne.
posted by areaperson at 12:55 PM on October 26, 2015 [1 favorite]


Amy? Jacqui? Jim? Ed?

Honestly I don't even remember who they were any more and don't think they were ever really core characters? (I only watch the shows as they air and haven't rewatched the early seasons since the beginning.)

Like right now, I'd consider the core characters to be Rick, Daryl, Carol, Michonne and Glenn (with Michonne being a later addition on the show rather than an original core member). Carl might also technically qualify.

Basically, of that remaining group I feel like Glenn is the one most in danger of being killed suddenly even if he survives this time around. The first four in that list all seem to be too central to the direction of the show for the time being. Glenn is the most likable though.
posted by Pryde at 1:21 PM on October 26, 2015


I really did not enjoy the episode, and my reason is apparently somewhat unique to me as I have seen no mention of it.

So they are in Alexandria. They have a plan to go try to lead the quarry zombies away so that they don't come to Alexandria. They go some distance away to do this. While they are doing this, they hear the horn of a truck. They don't just hear it. It's loud. Really loud. So loud that it interferes with our ability to hear what people are saying. So loud that it causes the zombies to turn and head toward the sound. So how far away is this horn?

Well, it's a truck horn. I assumed it was maybe a half mile away. Through neighborhoods, a town, and woods, it probably couldn't really be more than a quarter mile away to make that much sound. At the end of last week's episode, I assumed it was maybe a half mile away. Last night's episode made it clear that the horn was several miles away. Yes, they loudly heard a horn several miles away through the woods, a town, etc.

How do we know it was that far? Well, when they finally got to that town, someone announced that they were probably thirty minutes ahead of the herd and that they were probably half way to Alexandria. That means at that rate they could beat the herd to Alexandria by an hour or so. We are talking several miles. It sounds like five or ten miles to me. It made no sense to me whatsoever, and it greatly affected my ability to enjoy the episode.

I liked when Glenn and the other guy were wandering around the town looking to start a fire to distract the zombies. You need a distraction? I've got an idea! How about setting a rock on the horn of one of the cars? We seem to have some sort of recent precedent for the zombie-distracting abilities of horns.
posted by flarbuse at 1:55 PM on October 26, 2015 [23 favorites]


Yes, they loudly heard a horn several miles away through the woods, a town, etc.

As pointed out above, the notion of space in this episode is really baffling. Morgan gets back to town super fast, but Michonne and Crew are still working their way there by the end of the episode. I think there are some games being played with relativistic physics that perhaps also explain how the Walkers can function as basically perpetual motion machines.

Maybe this is the real spooky action at a distance?
posted by dis_integration at 2:08 PM on October 26, 2015 [2 favorites]


Those are all 100% legit beefs, flarbuse.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 2:10 PM on October 26, 2015


I really did not enjoy the episode, and my reason is apparently somewhat unique to me as I have seen no mention of it.

I talked about this a little at the end of my critique of the episode as well, although not in so much detail - distracted by the show's politics even more than their weird, nebulous grasp of where anything is.

Meanwhile, the competition recently offered me this visual, so I dunno why I'm sticking with TWD at all anymore.

Maybe this is the real spooky action at a distance?

Hahaha. :)
posted by mordax at 2:28 PM on October 26, 2015 [3 favorites]


Prediction: Glenn is still alive. Against all odds, Glenn will escape the zombies. Then, Glenn's fate will immediately mirror his comic book fate.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 2:57 PM on October 26, 2015


It's lazy, lazy writing. Damon Lindelof was on talking dead, and he made an offhand comment about how talking about setting the quarry zombies on fire completely misses the human drama or whatever. This summarizes a lot of what sucked about LOST in retrospect: LOST (and TWD) seem to write the drama first and come up with the justification in the physical universe of the show later. You need the survivors to have a new nemesis so that Character Y and Character X can explore their daddy issues. Therefore, boat full of villains by fiat, worry about the logic later. You need Glenn to either die or to suffer a traumatizing event in order to make some cack handed point about society, therefore a completely implausible crisis that the character would typically be able to extricate themselves from, worry about the justification later (or not at all).

About a year ago, an article got posted here with some terrible writing advice that centered on this 'emotional core' approach to writing, which ostensibly is all about the character, but totally ignores that real, human action is often a response to the physical world. In short: if you're writing an action story, then write good action scenes, and you'll write good characters. Focusing on characters first and then retrofitting the plot to emotional beats is terrible, and symptomatic of a lot of modern "golden age" TV writing.
posted by codacorolla at 3:07 PM on October 26, 2015 [11 favorites]


As an asian, I'm done with this show.

Yeah, it would be a shame if they killed off the one asian character.

Meanwhile everyone on Facebook is responding to posts about this with "HA HA I GUESS ZOMBIES LIKE CHINESE FOOD" and I'm realizing the world is, once again, far more racist than I had previously thought.
posted by mmoncur at 3:27 PM on October 26, 2015 [5 favorites]


Ah, I found that article: it was about operational themes. I hate this approach, and I think it explains why such an entertaining premise as surviving the zombie apocalypse is often bungled so handedly in TWD.
Television is a populist medium with little patience for intellectual phumphering. Hour–long drama is — first and foremost — about creating characters driven by internal forces that, melded to the right situation, can fuel every action, every line, every scene, and every plot for hundreds of successful episodes. This is the operational theme: a situational vector that cleanly delineates the potential variations of action in service of the protagonist’s consistent emotional need. This is crucial to the success of a television pilot. It is crucial to the successful episodes to come. It is, indeed, what television pilots should see as the first order of business to establish. And yet, it is most often the part that’s missing — especially from the sci–fi shows.
This assumes, primarily, that you create the character with a pre-existing "internal force" (read as, boring metaphor for bland pseudointellectual noodling) and that the situation (read as, the actual fucking thing happening on the screen) is secondary. So what does this mean? It means that Rick is broken by design - it is impossible for him to come up to a situation that he won't approach in a crazy, anti-social, idiotic way that somehow ends up panning out because that is the pre-determined "point" of his character! The situation exists in a supplementary fashion, and is largely dependent on the internal world of the character that's been figured out essentially at the start of the show or season!
Ironically, sci–fi, the genre that most often suffers from underdeveloped characters on TV probably demands more character from its characters than any other genre. Why? Because it is, at the core, a metaphorical exercise. Sci–fi poses a question that extends beyond the easily understandable stakes of the cop, doctor, or lawyer. How are the aliens, robots, mysterious islands, viral outbreaks, and vampires an external manifestation of your main character’s self–concept?
He completely fucking misses the point of Sci-Fi and of writing in general. The purpose is to create a world, populate it with characters, and then kick it into motion. It's not to set up a just-so story and then make each little incident conform to that metaphor. That's sophomoric bullshit, and explains why people spend so much time watching modern TV yelling at the screen as the characters do increasingly stupid things. Our real lives aren't "external manifestations" of our self-concept - quite the opposite, we develop our self-concepts through the physical realities in which we exist. If TWD (and LOST) decentered their fetish on human-shaped metaphors and focused instead on situations being reacted to by characters who change and reform based on previous situations, then I think that both of them would be less god-awful. As it stands, I think both shows are a sort of trap. They lure you in with the premise of exploring a deserted island, or exploring the zombie apocalypse, and instead spring this dime-store melodrama on your instead in service of trying to answer some grand philosophical question that doesn't even need to be asked.
posted by codacorolla at 3:29 PM on October 26, 2015 [13 favorites]


Along with the boots, I'm not clear on why everyone doesn't at least run around with bracers on their forearms. You can make them strong enough to be bite-proof with all kinds of stuff - duct tape and cardboard if it comes down to it.

Yeah, remember when Glenn would sally forth in his combo riot gear/lacrosse goalie protective wear? THAT MIGHT HAVE HELPED YOU THIS TIME, GLENN. along with ditching Nicholas or at least being smart enough to distrust his sense of direction!

I am sadfacing about the racist jokes, mmoncur.
posted by TwoStride at 3:53 PM on October 26, 2015 [4 favorites]


Mordax and I clearly are getting our zombie fulfillment on over at the SyFy channel. Thanks, Mordax, glad to know I'm not the only one enjoying the hell out of it!

My husband paused our TV during The Scene and was just like, "So are we quitting the show now or what?"

I felt sick as soon as I saw Herschel's pocket watch. "I was supposed to be delivering pizzas..."

FUCK YOU, showrunners. FUCK YOU TO DEATH.

In the pet store, why in the hell wasn't Michonne all "oh good, here are two stray walkers. Quick, everyone, smear yourselves head to toe with these stinky guts and follow me.... SLLOOOOOOWWWWLLY, and everyone be silent!"

OMG. If Carol was there, she would've quickly enPancho'd herself and led them harmlessly away.

but no. NO. Ms. "I have two Walker pets" Michonne can't handle a smaller group on her watch.

Rick finally looks as bad facial-expression-wise as he should, being all fucked and alone in the RV.

The only ounce of wiggle room I'm willing to give here is, everyone is tired. Everyone is dehydrated. Nobody has cell phones, and nobody has a back-up plan ready to go.

At this point, I can't believe nobody in the original group has tried any of the past escape plans that worked: use walker camo to escape? nope. send one person to reconnoiter the Alexandria situation and retrieve weapons? nope (though Darryl was definitely heading that way). Send one of the uninjured/capable Alexandrites around the edge of the herd to update Rick's group? nope.

Rick didn't even top off the gas tank and ensure the RV started and stopped several times before parking it and taking a Wolf Bait Nap. He's the sheriff of Fuck-Up Town now as far as I'm concerned.

Guild navigators could've folded space to IX and back 99 times during that eternal (half? 10? whatever) mile walk back to Alexandria, smh.
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 3:59 PM on October 26, 2015 [5 favorites]


You know what would freaking rule, though? If Enid rolls up in a big tank emblazoned with Ws and saves Glenn by announcing she's the Wolf Queen, I'll allow it. Especially if she then blurts out that she really misses Domino's pizza, and that she always used to send encouraging feedback through the Domino's app to her fave delivery guy/secret crush, Glenn.

That makes at least as much sense as anything else we've seen this season. Enid can sister wife it up with Glenn and Maggie, laying the groundwork for an Alexandrite coup from now-BFFs Ron and Carl.

Seriously, call me AMC -- I'll take your money.
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 4:04 PM on October 26, 2015 [11 favorites]


To continue workshopping directions the writers could go, how about Glenn being saved by Snarf in a "Too Many Cooks" crossover? Enid is the constant.
posted by memento maury at 4:14 PM on October 26, 2015 [4 favorites]


Mordax and I clearly are getting our zombie fulfillment on over at the SyFy channel. Thanks, Mordax, glad to know I'm not the only one enjoying the hell out of it!

*high fives*

He completely fucking misses the point of Sci-Fi and of writing in general. The purpose is to create a world, populate it with characters, and then kick it into motion.

I didn't think I could hate that guy more than I already do, but you have shown me the way. Wow.

(Honestly, I'm mostly watching TWD right now because the Fanfare threads are so fascinating. I really am getting the zombie fix more from Z Nation.)
posted by mordax at 4:17 PM on October 26, 2015 [2 favorites]


Z-Nation is excellent both in terms of good, dumb fun and in terms of characters behaving pretty appropriately in (nutzoid) context. As soon as Rick unfolded that knife I was saying "that's a bad choice of kni.... Yep". Was it just me or was one of the gut-eating zombies giving it loads with the Masterchef food-faces? Was all "oh Glenn, with these intestines you're really spoiling us"?
posted by Iteki at 4:50 PM on October 26, 2015 [1 favorite]


You know, I'm realizing the show really messed up with the "smeared zombies innards make you invisible to the walkers" and "leading two zombies on ropes means they leave you alone." Once you've established that, there is no reason not to always wear a raincoat or something smeared with viscera when you are making a run outside your shelter. Stinky, sure, but if it saves your life it would quickly become routine, and there is no shortage of stray zombies to gut when you need to. So ever since we learned that, the audience spends reacts to every zombie horde encounter by saying "why are they not smearing themselves with zombie guts?" It's kind of like how on Star Trek they had to always have some kind of planetary shield or freak ion storm to put the crew in danger, because once you have communicators and a transporter, it's a snap to get out of danger. Except TWD isn't bothering to try to come up with plausible reasons why they aren't painting each other with walker blood--they are just ignoring that and hoping we forget.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 5:38 PM on October 26, 2015 [8 favorites]


I think Glenn is alive. Either because guts made him invisible, or because he hides under the dumpster.

I'm not sure what to think of the spatial relations in this season. They're certainly puzzling. But, yes, why not wear guts and armor? Especially if you're almost certainly going to see zombies?

On why didn't they stay put: maybe they were worried a small crowd would attract a larger crowd, and then a still larger crowd (like, half the horde was heading that way) and eventually break through the wall/door? That's the best I've got.
posted by persona au gratin at 5:59 PM on October 26, 2015


I keep seeing people talking up Z-Nation. I thought it was like Sharknado quality.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 6:45 PM on October 26, 2015


You know, I'm realizing the show really messed up with the "smeared zombies innards make you invisible to the walkers" and "leading two zombies on ropes means they leave you alone." Once you've established that, there is no reason not to always wear a raincoat or something smeared with viscera when you are making a run outside your shelter.

Well, zombie guts are basically a farm for bacteria above and beyond what science knows, so I'd want to handle and cover myself with them as little as possible.

There is also an event in the comics in which the zombie-guts gambit is tried by a group and some of them are detected anyway, resulting in multiple deaths. A reenactment of that in the TV series would solve that particular problem, showing that it can be a good strategy but also a very risky one.
posted by delfin at 7:11 PM on October 26, 2015


Wouldn't you have to train the walkers on ropes? I would think they would spend a lot of time trying to eat you, or at least get at you, even if you de-jawed them as Michonne did. So it's not like you could find two walkers, cut off their arms and jaws, put them on a leash, and walk them like your pet dog IF you were already out there. You could train them and keep them at Alexandria, I suppose. But then everyone in the group would have to have some and it seems like they would really slow you down during the times when there were no zombies around and you wanted to get in and out.
posted by lyssabee at 7:33 PM on October 26, 2015


Ray, it's made by the Sharknado people (The Asylum) and written by Craig Engler, mostly.

Here's the thing about Z Nation... it's B quality, for sure. But it's not pretending to be anything else.

I'd lump it in with stuff like: Drop Dead Gorgeous, Final Destination 3, Scream, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Slither, etc.

Actually, you know what it reminds me of? When the new Battlestar Galactica got big, and people were like "oh shit, there's something DECENT that's also sci fi on the SciFi (currently SyFy) Channel? Well, is it because it's a retread of a previously successful concept???"

And then you watched it and saw all the spaceships going PEW PEW PEWWWWWWW and you were like, wait wait wait.

That's STARBUCK??? and yeah, it was awesome. (It got... bad... later, but in this analogy, in for a penny, in for a pound.)

Z Nation isn't great until the middle of the first season, really. Before that, it's still trying to figure out what kind of show it wants to be. It's got every stupid meme-able thing you can imagine: a blood-smeared Mount Rushmore, radioactive zombies, zombears, Amish farm survivors, plus a really sweet stoner hippie named Doc.

It's got a great female PoC leader as well, which I appreciate. In fact, PoC characters appear often and don't feel either forced or doomed, unlike TWD.

Obviously, the budget on Z Nation is a fraction of Walking Dead's and the effects aren't even comparable. But if you want to take your zombie entertainment to ridiculous levels, it goes there.

TWD almost sabotages itself with the relationship dramas; I actually enjoyed the season where Carol was banished after burning the sick people, because that could happen easily in a dystopian survivalist future (Zeds or not).

I guess that was a one-and-done "realism!" issue on TWD, but on Z Nation we routinely get "we're dehydrated... oh shit, I scratched myself on a fence and got tetanus... well, this baby's gonna get born today, here, without protection from wild animals and/or zombies."
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 8:42 PM on October 26, 2015 [3 favorites]


What I'm trying to say is, Z Nation successfully blends realistic issues (survival/travel/logistics issues, mostly) with extreme camp and violence. TWD is too chickenshit to play too far into either end of the spectrum and commit, except with making its fans upset because "feelings" are what the show's about and not zombies or surviving the apocalypse.

Sometimes I want jump-scares and horror humor -- not OMG!FEELINGS -- from my zombie show.

I'm loyal to both for now and still enjoying them, though.
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 8:50 PM on October 26, 2015 [3 favorites]


- plot required stupidity. Yep, can't stand it.

- infection; everyone's already sorta dead, microbes can't deal. They *can* deal with the stuff Zs eat; digesting it down and also synthesizing a lot of cofactors. Mammals and their symbiotic micro-orgs have had a long time to not piss each other off. Changing mammals (or just Homo (sapiens) (?) into Necros - huge adjustment for the microbes (which can do it overnight-quick, with equilibrium conditions in the range of months or years, as opposed to geological time. So, yeah, yep, can't stand it (without having such a theory be respected as canon).
posted by porpoise at 8:54 PM on October 26, 2015


Popping in to talk Z Nation a minute too:

* I like the characters. On TWD, I only really like a handful of people, and I mostly want to throttle the rest. In particular, the longer Rick goes on, the less tolerable I find him.

By contrast, I like almost everyone on Z Nation. Warren is a great PoC female lead. Doc is wonderful. I like 10K and Addy. I would actually like to have these people with me in a zombie apocalypse. I even find Murphy, (their MacGuffin mandated Gilligan), darkly hilarious. Like, he screws them over a lot, but it's in character instead of facepalming writer-mandated stupidity. (The only character I hate is Citizen Z.)

* It's fun.
TWD's main selling point is the spectacle. They have a real budget and construct some fantastic set pieces. This will also bring me back for another round of the (horribad) spinoff. However, in those moments when they are not doing something awesome, it's mostly kind of grindy and awful. They can't do drama to save their lives. I would venture to say that I absolutely love maybe 1/4th-1/5th of what happens on TWD, but the rest barely rises to 'meh,' making it a spiky viewing experience for me.

Z Nation never loses its sense of fun. It knows what the audience wants, and after the awkward start mentioned above, it generally delivers. It pains me to say it, but the writers on Z Nation are thinking more about what they're doing than fucking Lindelhof. This is partly because they've set themselves a less ambitious task: 'be funny' is easier than 'make sense,' but it's also because I think they care more about what they're doing, after reading those Talking Dead quotes.

That said, I admit that they're apples and oranges. TWD is trying to be a serious drama, Z Nation is horror comedy, and I'm being a little glib suggesting they are good replacements for each other. Z Nation is more filling the Zombieland shaped hole in my heart.
posted by mordax at 9:47 PM on October 26, 2015 [2 favorites]


OK, I finally watched the episode and I have two things to say:

1. If Glenn isn't dead, I'm going to be pissed. There were way too many walkers, although I agree that technically they didn't show Glenn being eaten.

2. If Glenn is dead, they've killed him in the stupidest way possible. Even stupider than Beth.

Not only did he not get a heroic death (basically dying because Nicholas was a suicidal idiot and he trusted him) but he died with no witnesses, so now everybody will just wonder what happened to him? Will Maggie spend the remainder of the show searching for him?

All of this makes me think he'll be alive somehow, just because it would mess up the narrative if he was dead. I don't know how they're going to pull that off, it would pretty much have to be a deus ex machina, for example Morgan showing up with a flamethrower or something.

Also, what the heck was Darryl doing? He basically turned away from Abraham and Sasha, went down a road for a while, then rejoined them? What was the point of that? Did he intend to go back to Alexandria and then change his mind after talking to Rick?

Prediction: Rick just killed the last of the Wolves, without even knowing who they were, and we'll never hear from them again.
posted by mmoncur at 2:26 AM on October 27, 2015


oy Daniel Lindehof is working on this show? Fuck that guy.
posted by angrycat at 3:52 AM on October 27, 2015 [2 favorites]


oy Daniel Lindehof is working on this show? Fuck that guy.

Is he? I can't find him in any credits. He just seems to be a superfan, and was on Talking Dead the other night. He is the showrunner for Leftovers, which is a pretty good show, tbh, although I haven't been watching this new season.
posted by dis_integration at 4:38 AM on October 27, 2015


i'm kind of annoyed that the mystery surrounding dead/not dead Glenn is making me want to review a scene of the consumption of entrails and gouting blood
posted by angrycat at 5:44 AM on October 27, 2015 [2 favorites]


From an interview with David Alpert, TWD executive producer:
I think that part of what that scene is about is the violence inflicted on Glenn, but from a bigger perspective, I think it’s really about his interactions with Nicholas. [...] I feel like, regardless of what happened to Glenn, he paid a tremendous price for having been human to Nicholas, and that, to me, from an emotional point-of-view — whether or not Glenn is alive or dead or something else — the Glenn that we knew, the one that believed in the better side of humanity, I think is dead.
No, whether or not Glenn is alive or dead is not "something else". It's meaningless to talk about the Goodness in Glenn dying if Glenn is dead. If he's dead, then everything in him is dead. Only if he's alive can the Goodness in Glenn die.

I get it. You showed him dying so that we would understand that some part of him died, emotionally, psychologically. That's fair, good semiotics. But it doesn't make up for being totally unbelievable.

Jerks.
posted by dis_integration at 6:30 AM on October 27, 2015 [5 favorites]


okay that plays with him bringing out Herschel's watch. the Herschel part of him dies.

still some bullshit though
posted by angrycat at 6:35 AM on October 27, 2015 [2 favorites]


i'm kind of annoyed that the mystery surrounding dead/not dead Glenn is making me want to review a scene of the consumption of entrails and gouting blood

I'm pretty sure those aren't Glenn's entrails. They're the entrails of the shark he had to jump over when he climbed up on that dumpster.
posted by Uncle Ira at 7:58 AM on October 27, 2015 [14 favorites]


DirtyOldTown: That one guy got to Bill-Paxton-in-Aliens level whiny annoying. I legit expected him to say "GAME OVER, MAN!"

The nameless guy in the beginning? I know. "Why don't you put her in charge?" Dude, we know you're going to die, but you didn't have to let the zombie bite you in the middle of your throat to show us how useless you are. "Hey, I'll prove my point by staring up at the trees while a zombie slides on up to me and chomps on my windpipe. Rick sure will look like a jerk then!"
posted by filthy light thief at 7:58 AM on October 27, 2015 [1 favorite]


He just seems to be a superfan, and was on Talking Dead the other night.

His presence on Talking Dead was what made me stop and think "hmm maybe glenn isn't actually dead, maybe it is just all a stupid mindfuck".
posted by poffin boffin at 8:00 AM on October 27, 2015


a stupid shitty overdone mindfuck. also when they bring him back he will be lit from behind, longhaired and bearded and christlike
posted by poffin boffin at 8:01 AM on October 27, 2015


DirtyOldTown: And he called Rick with what sounded more than a bit like saying goodbye...

Glenn's lines to Rick in this episode were reminiscent of how he first talked to Rick via walkie talkie ("Hey, you, dumbass"). [And speaking of bad writing, while under the tank, Rick has a gun to his head and says "Laurie, Carl, I'm sorry" ... Sorry I didn't look up to see this hatch sooner! Zing!]

DirtyOldTown: Is there a theory that explains that?

As my father-in-law often says when questions about shows are posed "it's in the script." It doesn't have to make sense (see His thoughts were red thoughts list of ways people have dealt with zombies in past episodes, but didn't now), it just needs to be in the script.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:12 AM on October 27, 2015


dis_integration: Glenn is definitely zombie food now (in a zombie's stomach? But they don't need stomachs to live. Do they digest human flesh with enzymes present in their mucous membranes?)

These are "classic" zombies in that they only need an intact head (or head and significant spine - Michonne beheaded a number of zombies in this episode, and I was wondering if that was sufficient to kill them or at least greatly decrease their capacity for damage) to drive them to eat living flesh. The drive is to eat, not so sustain yourself, otherwise you'd see clumps of lazy, satisfied zombies after a kill, like lions after a successful hunt. Also, zombies don't sustain themselves, they're slowly falling apart - thus the pile of zombies on the curved metal wall in this episode, some of whom were seen previously crushing their own skulls against that wall by simply walking into it.

So I imagine that if zombies were able to swallow any of the flesh they bit off, it would just add more material to rot in their already rotting animated corpses, which makes me think of a zombie with a mouth full of meat because there's something lodged in its throat, but it still tries to eat more, and this amuses me.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:22 AM on October 27, 2015 [3 favorites]


After watching it again, put me in the Glenn's not dead camp. Some silly ass shit will come into play to get him out of that jam, and he'll probably be missing for a couple of episodes, but if those gormless idiots in FtWD can survive their walker encounters without breaking a sweat, a battle-hardened person like Glenn will walk away from that predicament.

All the comments about the writing got me to thinking about how the writing in the Telltale Games' Walking Dead interactive drama games is just so much better than the writing for the show, the comics, and the novels it's not even funny. If you haven't played them yet, I highly recommend them. (Note: they're canon with the comics, not the show.)
posted by lord_wolf at 9:15 AM on October 27, 2015 [1 favorite]


Also, what the heck was Darryl doing? He basically turned away from Abraham and Sasha, went down a road for a while, then rejoined them? What was the point of that? Did he intend to go back to Alexandria and then change his mind after talking to Rick?

Did you miss Rick talking about how they had keep leading the herd for the Alexandrians and how going back now would be more selfish than sticking to the plan? It was about as subtle as a baseball bat to the back of the head.

Oh, and Glenn's not dead.
posted by entropicamericana at 9:17 AM on October 27, 2015


As my father-in-law often says when questions about shows are posed "it's in the script." It doesn't have to make sense (see His thoughts were red thoughts list of ways people have dealt with zombies in past episodes, but didn't now), it just needs to be in the script.

Kind of like a fence topped with barbed wire in the middle of an alleyway. Take that, trespassers! Now you'll never get in here! ...unless you walk around the block.
posted by Sys Rq at 9:30 AM on October 27, 2015 [1 favorite]


That's a case of the script not matching up with the location. The first ambush that killed the two Alexandrians would have been credible if it had occurred in thick underbrush with ambient noise from animals and rustling leaves. Because it took place in a stand of scattered, leafless trees with good sightlines, you're left scratching your head about how it could have happened.

Similarly, a small town of a couple of dozen buildings had alleys but no-back doors, pointless fences, and ignored but accessible roofs. The location scouts need to read the scripts, or the scriptwriters need to get briefed on the available locations.
posted by cardboard at 9:43 AM on October 27, 2015 [2 favorites]


Wrt the scenes and settings: i had assumed that the alexandria-adjacent town looked the way it did because of attempts to harden it at some prior point in the ZA (which would explain, sort of, the blocked fire escape and seemingly randomly placed fencing in the alley).

can we talk about the pet store for a minute - granting that EVERYTHING in TWD world must smell truly aweful, how bad would a damn pet store smell though? was it just as bad as everything else because the two proprietors/stowaways had eaten all the stock before turning themselves? am i crazy for even asking the question? am i crazy for still watching the show?
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 9:53 AM on October 27, 2015


If Glenn's not dead, it was the worst kind of stupid, stupid, dumb, pandery, stupid publicity stunt.

But I agree that he's probably not dead, and man, am I going to feel ripped off and cheated out of my real emotions.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 10:05 AM on October 27, 2015 [1 favorite]


Glenn still being alive doesn't bother me in the least if this proves to be true. It's a horror show so it would fit. I avoided this show initially because it was a horror show but it seemed, at the start, to be a really good one, and these first 3 episodes are largely "action" oriented and entertaining, but the bad side of the show, or rather, the one that follows horror conventions, including heroes that go from completely competent, sometimes genius, to entirely useless and clueless, is part of the show's DNA so Glenn surviving in some sort of selective dumb luck way would not all suprise me, nor would I feel it was cheap since cheap is part of the convention of this genre.
posted by juiceCake at 10:21 AM on October 27, 2015


mmoncur: Also, what the heck was Darryl doing? He basically turned away from Abraham and Sasha, went down a road for a while, then rejoined them? What was the point of that? Did he intend to go back to Alexandria and then change his mind after talking to Rick?

entropicamericana: Did you miss Rick talking about how they had keep leading the herd for the Alexandrians and how going back now would be more selfish than sticking to the plan? It was about as subtle as a baseball bat to the back of the head.

Really, that was it? This transcript is hard to understand, but it seems that Daryl wanted to go back to Alexandria, but turned around thanks to Rick's speech? What a useless bit of "character building" nonsense.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:07 AM on October 27, 2015 [2 favorites]


Oh, and while searching for a transcript to this week's episode, here's the top 4 images Google associated with walking dead thank you transcript: And a few hours later, here's the new top 4:
posted by filthy light thief at 1:20 PM on October 27, 2015 [2 favorites]


Google noticed you visited a wiki.
posted by Sys Rq at 1:36 PM on October 27, 2015


there's a shirt, of course.
posted by numaner at 2:37 PM on October 27, 2015


I think that part of what that scene is about is the violence inflicted on Glenn, but from a bigger perspective, I think it’s really about his interactions with Nicholas. [...] I feel like, regardless of what happened to Glenn, he paid a tremendous price for having been human to Nicholas, and that, to me, from an emotional point-of-view — whether or not Glenn is alive or dead or something else — the Glenn that we knew, the one that believed in the better side of humanity, I think is dead.

...there's absolutely no reason for him to say any of this if Glenn is actually-dead dead.

Like, there's no reason to say any of that unless you're explaining how Glenn becomes Rick, Jr.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 3:41 PM on October 27, 2015 [1 favorite]


Yeah, the worst thing about Glenn not-dying will probably not be the ludicrous twist/walk-back that surviving the zombie horde will require. The worst thing is that nearly dying while being a selfless hero will finally teach him the only lesson TWD writers seem to know: mercy/humanity/kindness is for the stupid or weak.
posted by skewed at 5:58 PM on October 27, 2015 [5 favorites]


TWD showrunner Scott Dimple: your theory that Rick is going to lose that hand is wrong.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 6:39 PM on October 27, 2015


Now I almost hope Andrew Lincoln loses a hand while he's on hiatus.
posted by Sys Rq at 8:13 PM on October 27, 2015 [5 favorites]


Couldn't he just like dislocate a finger or something
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:23 PM on October 27, 2015


9 Reasons That Death on The Walking Dead Didn't Actually Happen (really, the falling scene is enough for me, but that's just me).

Also, I read on some other blog that the pattern of TWD indicates they'll could take two weeks to get back to Glenn (I can't find the link, but I've seen people say next wee will focus on Morgan, so we won't know what happens to Rick, either).
posted by filthy light thief at 9:24 PM on October 27, 2015 [1 favorite]


the Glenn that we knew, the one that believed in the better side of humanity, I think is dead

Goodie! We really needed another Rick-like character on this show! If there's one thing I keep saying it's that this show needs more Rick!

(banging head on wall)
posted by mmoncur at 11:59 PM on October 27, 2015 [5 favorites]


OK, if people are writing whole articles about this, I better make my theory heard. Here's what the TWD creators said:

"whether or not Glenn is alive or dead or something else"

"In some way we will see Glenn, some version of Glenn, or parts of Glenn again, either in flashback or in the current story, to help complete the story.”

I'm calling it now: Glenn will survive as a disembodied, wisecracking head that Maggie carries around everywhere.
posted by mmoncur at 1:56 AM on October 28, 2015 [7 favorites]


i like how in love the writers are with their little morality lessons that they didn't understand that people would be like 'he--survived? without a single bite? fuck no, that's impossible.' the writers are just like 'ooh Glen sees the TRUTH isn't that exciting'
posted by angrycat at 4:34 AM on October 28, 2015 [2 favorites]


TWD showrunner Scott Dimple: your theory that Rick is going to lose that hand is wrong.
so Gimple's now done multiple interviews after this episode to talk about Glen and now the hand. and there have been a few others with a couple different producers too. There's something very wrong with your tv show when you have to do this much press after an episode to explain what happened.

(and what's the point of throwing in a Rick's hand red herring if you're going to immediately disavow it in an interview?)
posted by cnelson at 6:53 AM on October 28, 2015 [6 favorites]


so that everyone feels dumb for worrying about it and you feel smart and clever and cool
posted by poffin boffin at 7:35 AM on October 28, 2015


Yeah, at this point I think they're just clucking around with the audience.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 8:29 AM on October 28, 2015


I'm calling it now: Glenn will survive as a disembodied, wisecracking head that Maggie carries around everywhere.

They've been saying this is going to be a Maggie-heavy season, which is something I have been absolutely dreading (deeyur lowurd thayut ayuxayunt) ... until now!
posted by Sys Rq at 9:41 AM on October 28, 2015 [1 favorite]


What are the chances that I would watch the pilot of Rectify, featuring Michael Traynor shootin' himself (jpg) [not a spoiler] immediately after watching Traynor as Nicholas also shoot himself? Weird.
posted by sylvanshine at 10:12 AM on October 28, 2015


I'm calling it now: Glenn will survive as a disembodied, wisecracking head that Maggie carries around everywhere.

At that point you just need a sexy-in-a-morrisey way zombie with most of his human functionality still in tact and it's essentially the prequel to Lexx.
posted by codacorolla at 10:15 AM on October 28, 2015 [1 favorite]


codacorolla: you really need to watch Z Nation.
posted by Iteki at 2:51 PM on October 28, 2015 [1 favorite]


So the final is that everyone else is dead or zombies. Rick is standing surrounded by zombies. Can he go on? Finis.
posted by unliteral at 4:44 AM on October 29, 2015


Season ends with a Buffy-style Big Bad: a stitched-together zombie monster made up of Bob's leg, Rick's hand, Glenn's head and a few redshirt odds and ends.

For comedic purposes each body part will retain the personality of its previous owner.
posted by tracicle at 9:31 AM on October 29, 2015 [3 favorites]


Patrick Duffy for a leg!
posted by Sys Rq at 10:58 AM on October 29, 2015 [1 favorite]


Separate note: what's the deal with lack of mercy killings for the lady who tripped and the dude who died at the fence?


Shit writing maybe?
posted by mattoxic at 9:10 PM on November 8, 2015


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