Gotham: Mommy's Little Monster
November 3, 2015 7:08 PM - Season 2, Episode 7 - Subscribe

Selina faces a disappointment, Bruce makes googly eyes, Nygma solves a puzzle. Penguin organizes a flash mob, Gavlan twirls his mustache and Gordon begins to piece it together.
posted by codacorolla (11 comments total)
 
Boy oh boy, was my hypothesis about Miss Kringle not being dead ever wrong. This is the first time I've ever seen the lady in the refrigerator be in a snack machine instead.
posted by codacorolla at 7:19 PM on November 3, 2015


Penguin is going to murder the shit out of Galavan and his sister. Murdering them may not even satisfy him. He may keep them in a hole and torture them forever. Those two actors may end up guest starring five seasons from now as "the Galavans still suffering in a pit."

And though I can buy Selina's awkward, self-sabotaging attempts to call Silver out on her bullshit--she is a kid after all, dealing with a kid she maybe like likes--I sort of expected her to be more clever.

I sort of expected that instead of going to lunch, she'd have cornered Alfred and said, "Listen old man: I know you hate me and don't want me here because you think I'm bad for Bruce. But that girl over there is a straight up snake and I do care enough to tell you on my way out so you can protect Bruce."
posted by DirtyOldTown at 5:01 AM on November 4, 2015 [5 favorites]


I do like Penguins "upward" trajectory over the past 2 years. He started out as a lackey, and I'm pretty sure that this instance is what transforms him from enfant terrible of the crime world into a full-blown seething criminal mastermind.
posted by codacorolla at 6:11 AM on November 4, 2015 [2 favorites]


Remember also that people generally have two parents.

If you want a mild spoiler for the coming episodes, Google "gotham penguin's father."
posted by DirtyOldTown at 6:59 AM on November 4, 2015 [1 favorite]


I've grown to like Theo and I'm really fond of Tabby, but jeez -- talk about not being good judges of people. Penguin will kill them so hard.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 6:12 PM on November 5, 2015


And though I can buy Selina's awkward, self-sabotaging attempts to call Silver out on her bullshit--she is a kid after all, dealing with a kid she maybe like likes--I sort of expected her to be more clever.

Selina is clever. Quite bright, actually. But she is also IMPULSIVE. And she's not ever really against storming right into the breach of things. Remember how she and another teenager robbed a human slavery ring? That's a young lady who likes to take a chance or seven. This probably seemed comparatively less risky. And her attraction to Bruce is as consistent as her rejection of him. Seemed quite an effective way to extricate herself from the situation while still trying to "do something."

Your suggested script doesn't really ratchet up the dramatic tension the way Gotham really likes to do. You know how Nygma has to literally battle his own mind for control. It probably would have been much less satisfying to watch if his inner struggle had gone like this:

"Listen, other me: I know you hate me and don't want me here because you think I'm craven and weak. But that girl over there is a straight up dead and I think we need some serious professional help and should probably turn ourselves over to the police."

Not exactly fuel for drama.
posted by SinisterPurpose at 7:19 PM on November 13, 2015


"If you think foo (which sucks), you probably also think bar, which sucks even worse" is a famously bad template for arguing.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 8:06 AM on November 15, 2015


"If you think foo (which sucks), you probably also think bar, which sucks even worse" is a famously bad template for arguing.


Then why does it work so well in particular parts of American politics?

Look, I did not think you were appreciating the character of Selina Kyle as presented. And I didn't think you were taking into account how very tightly and painstakingly structured the narrative work done on Gotham is. It's easy to level a criticism based on "this is not what I think the character should have done" but, in essence, what you're saying is that is not the way you would have written it. In fact, you provided a script for how you would have written it. So, I feel, this opened the door for me to question your understanding of certain narrative principles and how that relates to your point about how the character of Selina Kyle "should have responded" to this situation she found herself in.

So, your above statement, which reduces my genuine counter-arguments to some sort of forum posting discussion maxim, does not take into account that I provided evidence from the show that spoke directly to what I felt was your fundamental misunderstanding of the character. My example, again based on your suggested script, was hyperbolic, but I thought it highlighted how great the show is at creating dramatic tension and how bad it might be if "what a character should do based on a perhaps incomplete perception" isn't a good way to craft a fantastically written, paced, and executed TV show.

I mean, we're just talking about Gotham, right? Sorry, if this made you feel unnecessarily challenged or aggressed at. My tone can be quite strident at times.
posted by SinisterPurpose at 10:42 AM on November 15, 2015


I always miss the editing window.

if "what a character should do based on a perhaps incomplete perception" was thought of as a good way to craft a fantastically written, paced, and executed TV show.

posted by SinisterPurpose at 10:51 AM on November 15, 2015


I think you're going to find that putting words in people's mouths, specifically so that you can criticize those words is going to be taken poorly here. (BTW, please don't ever do that discussing politics. It does not work for that. You are very wrong.)

I also think that if you view the writing of genre television shows as sacrosanct and beyond criticism, Fanfare may prove to be a troubling and confusing place for you. As may the Internet, in general.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 2:13 PM on November 16, 2015


I'm dropping this after this comment. I don't know why it's going so terribly awry.

I think you're going to find that putting words in people's mouths, specifically so that you can criticize those words is going to be taken poorly here.

Not what I did. Please don't presume to tell me the rules.

I also think that if you view the writing of genre television shows as sacrosanct and beyond criticism, Fanfare may prove to be a troubling and confusing place for you.

I challenged an assertion you made about a character on a television show. I don't think the writing of genre television shows as sacrosanct. Which may be you putting words in my mouth? or fingers? I thought your assertion lacked insight and I sought to refute it. I did that a tad stylistically, but I think well within the bounds of conversation on an internet forum about a television show. Even this particular forum.

If having your assertions challenged isn't quite your tumbler of whiskey, I think the internet may be a more harrowing experience for you. I wonder if my relatively low comment count made you assume I was new here. Or maybe you just assumed it outright. If I disagree with you again, please know it is not personal. I tend to be a bit blind to usernames.
posted by SinisterPurpose at 3:19 PM on November 16, 2015


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