Jessica Jones: AKA THE SANDWICH SAVED ME

November 22, 2015 7:46 AM - Season 1, Episode 5

Despite Jessica's objections, Trish's new friend Simpson gets involved in a plan for to capture Kilgrave. We also learn how Jessica and Kilgrave and Malcolm first met.
posted by Brandon Blatcher (33 comments total)

OK, I'm watching it, you don't have to shout :-)
posted by Pendragon at 11:10 AM on November 22, 2015 [1 favorite]

What was interesting in this episode was finding out the extend of Kilgrave's powers and his methods of keeping himself. He may be an insane asshole, but he has a plan for keeping himself self, so that says something about him.

Their plan to capture made a bit of sense and they all almost had him. Except for underestimating him. Which makes sense when contrasted with Jessica's middling attempts to be a bona fide superhero. It was almost as if Trish is the one who really, really, REALLY wants to be the superhero.

And Simpson seemed really, really interested in Jessica's background. That can't be good, right?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:15 PM on November 22, 2015 [1 favorite]

I'll admit this observation is about a scene in a future episode, but I just realized they filmed a scene on MY BLOCK IN BROOKLYN, which means that David Tennant was actually standing about 500 feet from my apartment and I was most likely at work at the time.

LIFE IS UNFAIR
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:25 PM on November 22, 2015 [15 favorites]

I really think Simpson is right and Jessica is wrong. You don't risk capturing Kilgrave so that you can feel like a hero by exonerating one woman. I mean, how many innocent bodies are gonna pile up if you don't succeed? The whole plan is more about Jessica wanting/needing to feel like a hero than actually making the right call.

You don't take these massive risks with somebody like Kilgrave. You put a .308 round into his head from 1000 yards with a sniper rifle. Which Simpson would no doubt be happy to do for you.

Sometimes you have to cut your losses.
posted by Justinian at 1:29 PM on November 22, 2015 [11 favorites]

A hero ain't nothing but a sandwich and since Jessica was a sandwich...
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:35 PM on November 22, 2015 [5 favorites]

I don't think we are supposed to think Jessica is right. I think she's obsessed with proving Killgrave's powers.
posted by Pendragon at 1:36 PM on November 22, 2015 [3 favorites]

In short, her damage from Kilgrave is severely messing up her ability to stop him, despite all her good intentions.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:50 PM on November 22, 2015 [1 favorite]

It was almost as if Trish is the one who really, really, REALLY wants to be the superhero.

She's totally Bruce Wayne without the baggage.
posted by The Whelk at 1:59 PM on November 22, 2015 [6 favorites]

Did I miss a part of their plan where they knew what they were going to do with Kilgrave once they had him, since Jessica is insistent on keeping him alive to exonerate Hope? There is no way to hold him or put him on trial without keeping him under sedation.
posted by elr at 3:11 PM on November 22, 2015 [1 favorite]

oh hell, that doesn't sound good.

I also thought killing Kilgrave when you had the chance was the smart option and then you go to the survivors group to work through it. Or not. But somehow wrangling him into court to testify? is NEVER EVER EVER going to work. How could it? Trish and lawyer woman should be hammering this since Jessica is not capable of thinking it through.

On a side note, I'm not really feeling David Tennant in this role. He seems a bit like milk toast compared with the guy playing Luke.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 3:15 PM on November 22, 2015

Did I miss a part of their plan where they knew what they were going to do with Kilgrave once they had him

They were going to put him in that soundproof room so he couldn't tell them what to do.
posted by Grangousier at 3:55 PM on November 22, 2015 [1 favorite]

(Note: when I saw the title of this I cracked up.)

I can see her logic for keeping him alive to prove Hope's innocence, at least. But seriously, how the hell are you going to get him into court?

But if it were me, I'd either shoot him in the head or somehow take out his larynx.
posted by jenfullmoon at 5:37 PM on November 22, 2015

Yeah Kilgrave needs to be killed at first opportunity. Jones plan should really be focused on gathering more evidence of his powers, specifically video of the crazy things he makes people do, since you've already gathered a bunch of personal testimony. And she's a private investigator! Getting that kind of evidence is perfectly in her wheelhouse!
posted by john-a-dreams at 7:13 PM on November 22, 2015

Empress,

They filmed a lot in Union Square, where I go every damn week and somehow missed it. AAARRRRRGGGHHHHH
posted by miss-lapin at 12:05 AM on November 23, 2015

How to get him in a courtroom ?

1) make him unconscious with a dart-gun
2) paralyse his vocal cords with a local anesthetic so he can't speak.
3) re-apply the anesthetic regularly.
posted by Pendragon at 2:13 AM on November 23, 2015

Also, when Jessica first saw Kilgrave through that skylight, I was thinking the whole "superheroes don't kill people" trope really didn't fit with the tone of this show and thought it was wrong that she showed up with a syringe instead of a gun.

I was pleased by the explanation this episode because Jessica's determination to capture him alive at least makes sense for her character, even if it seems unwise to us.
posted by straight at 7:14 AM on November 23, 2015 [1 favorite]

I was really enjoying the series until this episode. I'll definitely finish it - it's fun, and I gotta see how they end it, but I am out of love starting here.

"Powers" stories for me, from Batman to Harry Potter fanfic, are all about the worldbuilding. I recognize that's just one way of consuming this sort of story, but it's my way. Someone has a crazy ability that makes them "other" how do they and the world around them react? The whole series to this point has nicely built up Jessica's abilities for us in good "show don't tell" style - she doesn't have great control on the fringes but is strong enough to break chains, kill with a punch, and throw people across the room. So WHY, after showing her easily owning those rugby guys in Luke's bar, does she fare so poorly against the bodyguards? Sure they're probably a little tougher but there aren't that many more. Sure I believe she can be tazered down into submission but the fight should never have progressed that far. She should have thrown them across the parking lot, wham, bam, grab Kilgrave, beat it.

The only possible explanation I can see for this is that she didn't want to possibly kill them, which while I think is poor strategy does fit with her characterization so far. But we just saw her totally willing to knock out a bunch of probably more innocent people in more dangerous ways in the battle at the condo where Kilgrave was staying. Knocking people out is super dangerous! Why does she do any less here? Totally threw me out of the story and reduced her powers to a plot device. Either she's super strong or she isn't, don't play games with me writers!

I'm only to episode 8 now but this is starting to make me really nervous that the writers only came up with 7 episodes of plot for 13 episodes of show.
posted by Wretch729 at 8:56 AM on November 24, 2015 [2 favorites]

I felt the same way, Wretch729. In fact I felt disappointed that Jessica seems pretty low on the list of MCU strong people. After that brawl I'm not even sure she's stronger than Captain America.

But I think we're supposed to think they got the drop on her with a bunch of tasers before she could properly fight back, but maybe didn't quite film it clearly. I don't think they intend us to think she can normally be taken down by six guys.
posted by straight at 2:22 PM on November 24, 2015 [1 favorite]

I felt the same way, Wretch729. In fact I felt disappointed that Jessica seems pretty low on the list of MCU strong people. After that brawl I'm not even sure she's stronger than Captain America.

She's strong, but she doesn't seem to actually know how to fight. Whereas Captain America is a hand to hand combat expert. Even then, a sufficiently skilled expert can go hand to hand with him - like that Frenchish guy at the start of Winter Solider.

Here you had 6 massive professional bodyguards, who can definitely fight, armed with tasers, and even then they only put her down for a few seconds.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 5:29 PM on November 24, 2015 [1 favorite]

Why don't they just hire thugs who don't speak English to kidnap him?
posted by DirtyOldTown at 8:23 PM on November 24, 2015 [6 favorites]

Or ear plugs? Sound canceling headphones playing white noise?
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:22 PM on November 24, 2015 [1 favorite]

Well, they don't know the precise mechanism of how his power works. It could be totally telepathic, and the vocalising is just an affectation.

Also, if you try to grab him wearing headphones, he could still do a tremedous amount of damage to all the civilians around him by, for example, ordering them to kill themselves, or to defend him.

The sniper rifle is the smart move, but Jessica doesn't want to kill him, she wants to beat him. And she wants to do it herself, not just have Simpson shoot him in the head.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 9:27 PM on November 24, 2015 [1 favorite]

What we learned this episode is that Trish, like Cheryl Tunt, apparently has a thing for men who choke her nearly to the point of death.
posted by Parasite Unseen at 9:20 PM on November 25, 2015 [2 favorites]

Jessica and Trish putting Simpson in his place over and over until he got the point was pretty great. You're helping, asshole, not in charge. Fall in line or get lost.
posted by ODiV at 7:58 AM on November 27, 2015 [3 favorites]

Jessica and Trish really are a tight pair, though. Together they have clearly been through so much that when an outsider wants in, their first instinct is to lock him out, even though he has skills and knowledge that would be useful.

We get tiny snippets of Trish's past and it sounds horrific in a Lohan/Garland sort of way. Child star, greedy abusive mother, ongoing harassment from randoms. I wonder if we will ever get the full story. Did she take Jessica in because of Jessica's powers and then become friends, or was it always friendship first?

I like that we saw a different Jessica here, one that smiled more and had moments of happiness. Now she feels forced to deprive herself of company. It's lucky for her that Trish is so strong and can look after herself -- at least long enough for Jessica to get there. There is still some victimisation there, but she does what she can with her capabilities against some very strong, determined, specially-chosen enemies.
posted by tracicle at 1:40 AM on November 28, 2015

I loved that conversation in the kitchen at Trish's place. It was practically jarring to me when they didn't just acquiesce to Simpson saying he could/should help them. That never happens! And when Jessica said she didn't need him and Trish outspokenly agreed, wow.

The inverted power dynamics of male-female relationships, at least with Trish and Simpson and even the faux-divorcing couple that tried to shoot Jessica, are what really make me love this show.

The reveal of how Kilgrave and Jessica met... How banal yet creepy. From how Malcolm got up after the two ditched him, I almost expected that as being his reason for originally going along with Kilgrave. Saved and then forgotten, with not even a glance back. That would've felt very humbling.

And more POC extras in the waitress in the bar flashback and the captured body guard!
posted by jillithd at 6:38 PM on November 28, 2015 [2 favorites]

We also got to see the girl who was told to smile! She was there at the Kilgrave-Jessica introduction!
posted by jillithd at 7:18 PM on November 28, 2015 [1 favorite]

I'm frustrated at how little time I have to watch these but this was a good episode; Kilgrave really seems like an undefeatable foe and I'm exited to see how this all plays out.
posted by octothorpe at 2:12 PM on November 30, 2015

Was I the only one cringing when Jessica and GoodCop only moved like 5 ft away from the bodyguard they had just assaulted, kidnapped, and tortured, to talk about what to do next? I mean geez, at least don't use your actual names if you're going to do that.
posted by donajo at 5:52 AM on December 2, 2015

Here you had 6 massive professional bodyguards, who can definitely fight, armed with tasers, and even then they only put her down for a few seconds.

And meanwhile, Simpson, who has no powers but advanced tactical, strength, and combat training, was able to hang in and even get tased. So yes, skill as a fighter is a thing, and probably would have made a big difference for Jessica here.
posted by dry white toast at 2:29 PM on December 2, 2015

I loved the kitchen scene, and that the love scene with Trish and Simpson was him going down on her. Followed by, "yeah thanks for getting me off, but don't think that buys you anything here."

The strength and independence of the female characters in this show is almost revolutionary for mainstream entertainment. More please.
posted by dry white toast at 2:32 PM on December 2, 2015 [2 favorites]

"You can't keep saving people dressed as a giant hoagie."

I strongly disagree. Jessica should always dress as a hoagie for battle.
posted by homunculus at 4:40 PM on December 3, 2015 [4 favorites]

Even if they paralyze him to get into the courtroom, there's no way to prove his powers.
posted by corb at 11:58 AM on January 26, 2016