Legends of Tomorrow: Doomworld
March 29, 2017 5:00 AM - Season 2, Episode 16 - Subscribe
After obtaining the Spear of Destiny, the Legion of Doom rewrites reality, leaving the Legends changed, perhaps forever.
Legends of Tomorrow has such impressively bad wigs; I think Doomworld Nate's may be the best worst one so far.
posted by oh yeah! at 6:39 PM on March 29, 2017
posted by oh yeah! at 6:39 PM on March 29, 2017
Wow, these are bad guys with no vision.
That is so true that it was almost charming. Like... that was it? That was all they wanted? Maybe just give it to them, whatever. I mean, Thawne didn't even reintegrate himself into the timeline or just erase the Black Racer. Everything they wanted was so small, like if they were just really hungry for some Hostess Snack Cakes.
At any rate, I agree with the Den of Geek tagline about this being either one of their best, or the actual winner. I had fun the whole time. Evil Sarah killing Felicity? Awesome. Nate busting in on Thawne begging for help from the smartest hero in the world and getting taken out to be shot? Awesome. Snart just wanted to dick with the police? Well, you know. Awesome.
Also, even though I'm sure Amaya's death was temporary, that was still pretty shocking. I was *not* expecting that when she started chanting.
I even love Thawne letting them all go at the end. I feel like his time impersonating Harrison Wells really softened him up. (I guess it's worth remembering that he did that a *really* long time ago subjectively, and that he's waxed nostalgic about his time with Team Flash more than once.)
At any rate, I had a lot of fun. I wish the rest of the CWverse would remember to just be this zany and fast paced if they're not going to worry about making sense.
posted by mordax at 2:07 AM on March 31, 2017 [3 favorites]
That is so true that it was almost charming. Like... that was it? That was all they wanted? Maybe just give it to them, whatever. I mean, Thawne didn't even reintegrate himself into the timeline or just erase the Black Racer. Everything they wanted was so small, like if they were just really hungry for some Hostess Snack Cakes.
At any rate, I agree with the Den of Geek tagline about this being either one of their best, or the actual winner. I had fun the whole time. Evil Sarah killing Felicity? Awesome. Nate busting in on Thawne begging for help from the smartest hero in the world and getting taken out to be shot? Awesome. Snart just wanted to dick with the police? Well, you know. Awesome.
Also, even though I'm sure Amaya's death was temporary, that was still pretty shocking. I was *not* expecting that when she started chanting.
I even love Thawne letting them all go at the end. I feel like his time impersonating Harrison Wells really softened him up. (I guess it's worth remembering that he did that a *really* long time ago subjectively, and that he's waxed nostalgic about his time with Team Flash more than once.)
At any rate, I had a lot of fun. I wish the rest of the CWverse would remember to just be this zany and fast paced if they're not going to worry about making sense.
posted by mordax at 2:07 AM on March 31, 2017 [3 favorites]
If you had asked me a year ago today I would never ever ever have thought that this would be the DC-TV property I would be most enjoying. And by a wide margin! I had fun through the entirety of this episode and that was not the episode end I was expecting. In part because...
That is so true that it was almost charming. Like... that was it? That was all they wanted? Maybe just give it to them, whatever. I mean, Thawne didn't even reintegrate himself into the timeline or just erase the Black Racer.
I wonder if that was the original intention or if they realized they needed to do something to sorta indicate that the Legends' plan wasn't complete shit. Because honestly, before this episode, I just assumed that the whole rewrite reality thing would mean that you've rewritten it in every time ever and once done you don't get to rewind to a time before it was done. Because, you know, rewritten.
But having the black racer still exist kinda sorta jibes, as well as any of that shit ever really does. So if we're gonna allow intercepting the initial acquisition of the spear then we have to leave some time travel consequence still in place.
Of course that also would indicate that the really sensible thing here is to go get the spear long before that point. Go grab it before Rip gets it and splits it into four pieces. Come to 2017. Put everything back to where it "belongs[1]" and put the spear back into the timeline where it was before, meaning now it's destroyed. Although then what stops Thawne from going back after it yet again. Ouch.
[1] Anyone else get a bit of sense of the part from Angel where they stop a big bad whose overall impact was super positive, with some cost that's far lower than the daily suffering of the status quo? Thawne has released cold fusion etc out into the world. All this costs us is Darke being in charge of Star City and killing some vigilantes. Folks who had taken up endeavors where they supposedly were willing to risk their own lives for the greater good. Is this maybe the greater good, on average? Supposedly Felicity should be forgiven for her trolly problem solution where she nuked a smaller city to avoid nuking a bigger one. How is this different?
posted by phearlez at 1:24 PM on March 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
That is so true that it was almost charming. Like... that was it? That was all they wanted? Maybe just give it to them, whatever. I mean, Thawne didn't even reintegrate himself into the timeline or just erase the Black Racer.
I wonder if that was the original intention or if they realized they needed to do something to sorta indicate that the Legends' plan wasn't complete shit. Because honestly, before this episode, I just assumed that the whole rewrite reality thing would mean that you've rewritten it in every time ever and once done you don't get to rewind to a time before it was done. Because, you know, rewritten.
But having the black racer still exist kinda sorta jibes, as well as any of that shit ever really does. So if we're gonna allow intercepting the initial acquisition of the spear then we have to leave some time travel consequence still in place.
Of course that also would indicate that the really sensible thing here is to go get the spear long before that point. Go grab it before Rip gets it and splits it into four pieces. Come to 2017. Put everything back to where it "belongs[1]" and put the spear back into the timeline where it was before, meaning now it's destroyed. Although then what stops Thawne from going back after it yet again. Ouch.
[1] Anyone else get a bit of sense of the part from Angel where they stop a big bad whose overall impact was super positive, with some cost that's far lower than the daily suffering of the status quo? Thawne has released cold fusion etc out into the world. All this costs us is Darke being in charge of Star City and killing some vigilantes. Folks who had taken up endeavors where they supposedly were willing to risk their own lives for the greater good. Is this maybe the greater good, on average? Supposedly Felicity should be forgiven for her trolly problem solution where she nuked a smaller city to avoid nuking a bigger one. How is this different?
posted by phearlez at 1:24 PM on March 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
..Just because he's got cold fusion working, and/or the trains running on time, doesn't mean the world isn't a lot worse for the people living in it.
posted by amtho at 1:38 PM on March 31, 2017
posted by amtho at 1:38 PM on March 31, 2017
Anyone else get a bit of sense of the part from Angel where they stop a big bad whose overall impact was super positive, with some cost that's far lower than the daily suffering of the status quo? Thawne has released cold fusion etc out into the world. All this costs us is Darke being in charge of Star City and killing some vigilantes.
I hadn't really thought about it, but it's a fair point.
Going a little further: while I can see where the Legends just can't let Damien Darkhe and Malcolm Merlyn off the hook... I mean, Eobard Thawne's personal shenanigans, leaving them out of it, are approximately as bad as the stuff Barry Allen has been up to lately. He's screwing with the timeline for better outcomes, but he *is* willing to bring the rest of humanity along even if it's just so that they'll like him. All Barry did was try to get his parents back.
In their shoes, I might be trying to recruit him at this point. Like, 'why don't we get you a full pardon, a nice office and the cover of Time, and you can show us how to fix global warming?'
Upon preview:
..Just because he's got cold fusion working, and/or the trains running on time, doesn't mean the world isn't a lot worse for the people living in it.
True, but we don't really know one way or the other. (A fairly common trope with bad guys of his style is 'I will make the world better just to show up those dumb heroes.' Doctor Doom and Lex Luthor have both gone for it from time to time.)
posted by mordax at 1:41 PM on March 31, 2017
I hadn't really thought about it, but it's a fair point.
Going a little further: while I can see where the Legends just can't let Damien Darkhe and Malcolm Merlyn off the hook... I mean, Eobard Thawne's personal shenanigans, leaving them out of it, are approximately as bad as the stuff Barry Allen has been up to lately. He's screwing with the timeline for better outcomes, but he *is* willing to bring the rest of humanity along even if it's just so that they'll like him. All Barry did was try to get his parents back.
In their shoes, I might be trying to recruit him at this point. Like, 'why don't we get you a full pardon, a nice office and the cover of Time, and you can show us how to fix global warming?'
Upon preview:
..Just because he's got cold fusion working, and/or the trains running on time, doesn't mean the world isn't a lot worse for the people living in it.
True, but we don't really know one way or the other. (A fairly common trope with bad guys of his style is 'I will make the world better just to show up those dumb heroes.' Doctor Doom and Lex Luthor have both gone for it from time to time.)
posted by mordax at 1:41 PM on March 31, 2017
Yeah I'm not gonna go out on a limb and say this is for sure A Better World, but the episode doesn't show us any sort of ugly hellscape anywhere. Darkh's shenanigans as presented to us are limited to hunting down vigilantes, and when we see Canary and Vixen hunting down Felicity we don't see them interfering with her doing some sort of good. So while he's commissioning murder he's still doing it over a city that's functional enough to have a mayor.
Presumably, since Tommy and his mom are still alive, Merlyn never tried to earthquake machine the city. So there's that net positive to the city that, as shown in Arrow, ain't doing so well after four years of playing punching bag after that point.
Thawne has a positive rep out in the world for technological achievements, one of which potentially allows the end of global climate change. Maybe it's not that useful but there's a way to squint and look at this such that this, by itself, justifies a tremendous amount of other villainy.
Let's just not ask ourselves why Firestorm doesn't do some CO2 sequestration themselves back in the old status quo...
Sure, if we assume that none of these people are really going to change then maybe there's other nonsense going on. Darkh could well also be running the League of Assassins behind the scenes and Merlyn might be arrow-killing anyone who might be slowing down Tommy's promotion opportunities at work. But I think it's interesting that the only villainy we see that they're not aiming at each other is Snart... who is only targeting stuff he owns, and the nature of that situation is there's no violence committed. He's cordial with the cops while play-acting his robbery. Which is a funny contrast with the overtly abusive behavior between Jefferson and Stein.
It's small and I am sure it's pretty much all explainable by the fact that they only had so much time in the episode and that's why we saw what we did. But coincidence or not, I enjoyed it as an aspect of the episode.
posted by phearlez at 2:26 PM on March 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
Presumably, since Tommy and his mom are still alive, Merlyn never tried to earthquake machine the city. So there's that net positive to the city that, as shown in Arrow, ain't doing so well after four years of playing punching bag after that point.
Thawne has a positive rep out in the world for technological achievements, one of which potentially allows the end of global climate change. Maybe it's not that useful but there's a way to squint and look at this such that this, by itself, justifies a tremendous amount of other villainy.
Let's just not ask ourselves why Firestorm doesn't do some CO2 sequestration themselves back in the old status quo...
Sure, if we assume that none of these people are really going to change then maybe there's other nonsense going on. Darkh could well also be running the League of Assassins behind the scenes and Merlyn might be arrow-killing anyone who might be slowing down Tommy's promotion opportunities at work. But I think it's interesting that the only villainy we see that they're not aiming at each other is Snart... who is only targeting stuff he owns, and the nature of that situation is there's no violence committed. He's cordial with the cops while play-acting his robbery. Which is a funny contrast with the overtly abusive behavior between Jefferson and Stein.
It's small and I am sure it's pretty much all explainable by the fact that they only had so much time in the episode and that's why we saw what we did. But coincidence or not, I enjoyed it as an aspect of the episode.
posted by phearlez at 2:26 PM on March 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
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As for the rest, all I have to say is, "Really? You can rewrite reality and you decide you want to be mayor of Star City, head of STAR Labs, some robbers with a tame police force and business dude (or whatever Malcolm did when he wasn't playing happy family man) and you want to reside in 2017. Why?" Wow, these are bad guys with no vision. Darhk had more vision when he was setting up the underground city and planning on destroying the world.
I don't know why nobody attempted to grab Ray's reality gun and if not put it back together, at least pocket the pieces so it could be repaired (and eventually used on Martin).
Finally, I'm happy that the team has realized that they have a time machine, and they have the possibility of going back and fixing their errors. Okay, sure they aren't supposed to get involved with situations they were present at, but with a time machine, they can always get around those and arrive at slightly more advantageous points. Maybe they've finally figured out how to do their jobs (although I suspect this will be a one-time thing).
Once again, they threw Mick to the wolves. I never figured when I started watching Flash I'd become a Mick Rory fan, but I guess I should just apply for the membership card and get it over with. This group of people needs to smarten up and realize that he doesn't deserve that treatment.
The almost high five was a cute but stupid moment.
I wish they had killed another member of the team, and not Amaya, because we all know that there is no way she is staying dead, because without her, we don't get granddaughter Vixen. Maybe if they had killed Ray or Martin or Nate there would have been a little bit more tension. Besides Nate deserved to die, just because he was wearing a wig from Oliver Queen's "Bad Flashback" collection (Spring 2017).
posted by sardonyx at 5:47 PM on March 29, 2017 [4 favorites]