Supernatural: The British Invasion
April 7, 2017 8:51 PM - Season 12, Episode 17 - Subscribe
With the help of another hunter, Sam and Dean get a lead on Kelly Kline. Mick joins in the hunt.
Kid and I were surprised at how sad we were about Mick. I knew it was going to happen, but damn, just as the show made him likable.
Super disappointed in Mary and Squarehead (I dislike that character so much that I refuse to remember his name), but obviously they want us to think that Squarehead's feelings for Mary are going to prevent him from acting on his orders.
Mark Pellegrino is a treasure, and I think it was clever of the writers to bring him back like that. I do have a soft spot for Mark Sheppard, though. Kid was the one who got me into SPN last year, but a few years back, we were at a local con (that was really badly managed so when the mister went outside for a smoke, he wasn't allowed back in due to capacity issues, leaving me to deal with three 12 year old girls, two of whom were dressed as Ponies so I had a lot to handle.) where Mark Sheppard was at. One of my closest friends was also stuck outside, behind the mister, as it happened, so as the girls were in line for George Takei, I took pictures of Badger for my friend. I tried telling my Kid about him at the time. Sterling! Canton Everett Delaware III! So when Kid got into SPN, I texted her the pictures I took of Mark Sheppard saying "You should have listened to Mama," and Kid saw the error of their ways. So Team Crowley, basically.
posted by Ruki at 11:16 PM on April 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
Super disappointed in Mary and Squarehead (I dislike that character so much that I refuse to remember his name), but obviously they want us to think that Squarehead's feelings for Mary are going to prevent him from acting on his orders.
Mark Pellegrino is a treasure, and I think it was clever of the writers to bring him back like that. I do have a soft spot for Mark Sheppard, though. Kid was the one who got me into SPN last year, but a few years back, we were at a local con (that was really badly managed so when the mister went outside for a smoke, he wasn't allowed back in due to capacity issues, leaving me to deal with three 12 year old girls, two of whom were dressed as Ponies so I had a lot to handle.) where Mark Sheppard was at. One of my closest friends was also stuck outside, behind the mister, as it happened, so as the girls were in line for George Takei, I took pictures of Badger for my friend. I tried telling my Kid about him at the time. Sterling! Canton Everett Delaware III! So when Kid got into SPN, I texted her the pictures I took of Mark Sheppard saying "You should have listened to Mama," and Kid saw the error of their ways. So Team Crowley, basically.
posted by Ruki at 11:16 PM on April 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
That was not the ending I expected for Mick.
Agreed. The season as a whole has been fine, but the whole BMOL arc has been the weakest part. Mick was just showing some glimmers of becoming interesting and now he's gone.
posted by Pryde at 11:20 PM on April 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
Agreed. The season as a whole has been fine, but the whole BMOL arc has been the weakest part. Mick was just showing some glimmers of becoming interesting and now he's gone.
posted by Pryde at 11:20 PM on April 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
The season as a whole has been fine, but the whole BMOL arc has been the weakest part. Mick was just showing some glimmers of becoming interesting and now he's gone.
Agreed. The BMOL are too leering-evil after this. Mick represented a better version of the plot: different methods, dedication to complete monster genocide, but basic humanity. He's got an argument worth considering: maybe we should take a zero tolerance policy to monsters, maybe we should organize and be systematic. There's a real discussion to have about the pros and cons of each thing that he wants to do differently. (Among other things, 'organize' makes a lot of sense. It's easy to see why American hunters don't, but it's equally easy to see why they probably *should*.)
Turning the BMOL into heartless monsters who train children to murder each other is just... boring. Like, now I know exactly how this has to end: the Winchesters win, status quo is returned, etc. If the BMOL had ambiguity, the world in the show could get more complicated and interesting. Like, they managed to get Sam and Dean disagreeing about something real instead of boring family drama this season, and it's going away.
Bleh.
Plus: Ketch/Mary? Agreed on the 'ew.'
Taken individually, I did like Dagon, and I always like when Eileen shows up. It's good Kelly finally understands the stakes. But it's hard to enjoy that when they just spoiled a huge element of the plot arc for the rest of the season.
posted by mordax at 9:32 AM on April 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
Agreed. The BMOL are too leering-evil after this. Mick represented a better version of the plot: different methods, dedication to complete monster genocide, but basic humanity. He's got an argument worth considering: maybe we should take a zero tolerance policy to monsters, maybe we should organize and be systematic. There's a real discussion to have about the pros and cons of each thing that he wants to do differently. (Among other things, 'organize' makes a lot of sense. It's easy to see why American hunters don't, but it's equally easy to see why they probably *should*.)
Turning the BMOL into heartless monsters who train children to murder each other is just... boring. Like, now I know exactly how this has to end: the Winchesters win, status quo is returned, etc. If the BMOL had ambiguity, the world in the show could get more complicated and interesting. Like, they managed to get Sam and Dean disagreeing about something real instead of boring family drama this season, and it's going away.
Bleh.
Plus: Ketch/Mary? Agreed on the 'ew.'
Taken individually, I did like Dagon, and I always like when Eileen shows up. It's good Kelly finally understands the stakes. But it's hard to enjoy that when they just spoiled a huge element of the plot arc for the rest of the season.
posted by mordax at 9:32 AM on April 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
I haven't been keeping up but I remember the BMOL were fairly transparent metaphors for fascism. And fascism usually seems logical at first. Like they have some good points. If you don't take it too far, if you stay moderate. But in every case, the logical conclusion is brutality.
The anarchy of American hunters, at the very least, makes sure no one gets too much power. Except the Winchesters. But that's for plot reasons.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 9:42 AM on April 9, 2017
The anarchy of American hunters, at the very least, makes sure no one gets too much power. Except the Winchesters. But that's for plot reasons.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 9:42 AM on April 9, 2017
But in every case, the logical conclusion is brutality.
That's fair, but a story like this is a lot more fun when the bad guys clearly have believable reasons for being the way they are. The stuff here is over the top in a manner that makes it boring and unconvincing. Plus, going to the well of fascism feels a little played out after Dean *literally* killed Hitler.
(For contrast, I'm interested in the exploration of fascism going on with Colony at the moment.)
IMO, a more interesting conflict on Supernatural would be the difference between how a professional military handles stuff versus irregular forces like the Winchesters, and I was hoping they'd skew the storyline that way instead because there's some genuine meat there.
posted by mordax at 1:39 PM on April 9, 2017
That's fair, but a story like this is a lot more fun when the bad guys clearly have believable reasons for being the way they are. The stuff here is over the top in a manner that makes it boring and unconvincing. Plus, going to the well of fascism feels a little played out after Dean *literally* killed Hitler.
(For contrast, I'm interested in the exploration of fascism going on with Colony at the moment.)
IMO, a more interesting conflict on Supernatural would be the difference between how a professional military handles stuff versus irregular forces like the Winchesters, and I was hoping they'd skew the storyline that way instead because there's some genuine meat there.
posted by mordax at 1:39 PM on April 9, 2017
The dismissal/belittling of Sam/Dean's abilities by the BMoL is silly.
Not only do they scoff at Sam/Dean but they don't even bring it up.
The guys have killed Death, Cain, and many others.
They fought at God's side - heck, God wrote a series of novels about Sam/Dean.
Maybe their actions are chaotic. Perhaps many of the problems they solved were a result of their actions. The point is they've done more than any other hunter has ever done.
"I graduated top of my class"
vs
"I killed Hitler"
posted by 2manyusernames at 3:22 PM on April 9, 2017 [2 favorites]
Not only do they scoff at Sam/Dean but they don't even bring it up.
The guys have killed Death, Cain, and many others.
They fought at God's side - heck, God wrote a series of novels about Sam/Dean.
Maybe their actions are chaotic. Perhaps many of the problems they solved were a result of their actions. The point is they've done more than any other hunter has ever done.
"I graduated top of my class"
vs
"I killed Hitler"
posted by 2manyusernames at 3:22 PM on April 9, 2017 [2 favorites]
Man, this BMOL storyline had some potential, but the BMOL themselves are kind of dumb and don't make a lot of sense and it's just...not getting there for me.
One thing I keep wondering is, this whole American plan of theirs relied on getting the Winchesters on board to then bring around the other American hunters. Maybe they have people in the US telling them that's a good approach (and we know they have other hunters on their payroll), or maybe they make some creative leaps from Sam and Dean being the two hunters currently occupying the US MOL bunker, and "ingratiate ourselves with well-connected hunters who can bring their peers around" isn't a terrible plan. But I don't think I've ever gotten the impression the Winchesters are particularly popular or well-connected among their peers; they have friends, now, but they're still John's kids and being loners is kind of their deal. I can believe that they've earned grudging respect from some people, but that still seems pretty shaky for Plan A material, especially if Plan B is "well, just kill them all."
posted by jameaterblues at 4:13 PM on April 9, 2017
One thing I keep wondering is, this whole American plan of theirs relied on getting the Winchesters on board to then bring around the other American hunters. Maybe they have people in the US telling them that's a good approach (and we know they have other hunters on their payroll), or maybe they make some creative leaps from Sam and Dean being the two hunters currently occupying the US MOL bunker, and "ingratiate ourselves with well-connected hunters who can bring their peers around" isn't a terrible plan. But I don't think I've ever gotten the impression the Winchesters are particularly popular or well-connected among their peers; they have friends, now, but they're still John's kids and being loners is kind of their deal. I can believe that they've earned grudging respect from some people, but that still seems pretty shaky for Plan A material, especially if Plan B is "well, just kill them all."
posted by jameaterblues at 4:13 PM on April 9, 2017
But I don't think I've ever gotten the impression the Winchesters are particularly popular or well-connected among their peers; they have friends, now, but they're still John's kids and being loners is kind of their deal.
I am so annoyed at myself for caring about this stupid show and all of its wasted potential, iswtg, but it is so stupid and incoherent when it could be good and it drives me NUTS. THIS IS TRUE. EVERYONE HATES THE WINCHESTERS. Everyone hates them for starting the apocalypse (THEY LITERALLY GET MURDERED BY OTHER HUNTERS FOR THIS), the people who don't hate them won't work with them because they get other hunters killed (EILEEN! BE CAREFUL EILEEN!!!!! You are so cute and you need to marry Sam so you two can live happily ever after in Ireland together wearing cozy sweaters.), and the people who will work with them HAVE LITERALLY ALL GOTTEN KILLED. Like Jody and the Wayward Daughters and I guess technically Garth are the sole survivors.
I was hoping (why do I hope for anything from this piece of shit show that hates me, I don't know but I do) that the BMoL would be completely unsuited to control a territory the sheer SIZE of America, and that the show would acknowledge that they won't be able to close the borders since America isn't a fucking island and everyone just laughs politely at them. I also have this head canon that Sam and Dean have to hunt as much as they do because pretty much every other hunter in the Midwest died when Harvelle's exploded, so maybe there could have been a thing about how they have no one to turn to but the inept BMoL when whatever stupidity that the last three episodes will be goes down. That would have been an interesting thing to explore, show!
Sigh. I was also hoping Mary would find out what a nightmare childhood her kids had and then go kill John in the afterlife, and that Ramiel would last longer than a single damn episode, and that Dean would someday put a better fucking trap in the trunk of the Impala but you can't always get what you want. Which this show never flipping tires of reminding me.
I do approve of Dagon. She can stay.
posted by Snarl Furillo at 4:47 AM on April 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
I am so annoyed at myself for caring about this stupid show and all of its wasted potential, iswtg, but it is so stupid and incoherent when it could be good and it drives me NUTS. THIS IS TRUE. EVERYONE HATES THE WINCHESTERS. Everyone hates them for starting the apocalypse (THEY LITERALLY GET MURDERED BY OTHER HUNTERS FOR THIS), the people who don't hate them won't work with them because they get other hunters killed (EILEEN! BE CAREFUL EILEEN!!!!! You are so cute and you need to marry Sam so you two can live happily ever after in Ireland together wearing cozy sweaters.), and the people who will work with them HAVE LITERALLY ALL GOTTEN KILLED. Like Jody and the Wayward Daughters and I guess technically Garth are the sole survivors.
I was hoping (why do I hope for anything from this piece of shit show that hates me, I don't know but I do) that the BMoL would be completely unsuited to control a territory the sheer SIZE of America, and that the show would acknowledge that they won't be able to close the borders since America isn't a fucking island and everyone just laughs politely at them. I also have this head canon that Sam and Dean have to hunt as much as they do because pretty much every other hunter in the Midwest died when Harvelle's exploded, so maybe there could have been a thing about how they have no one to turn to but the inept BMoL when whatever stupidity that the last three episodes will be goes down. That would have been an interesting thing to explore, show!
Sigh. I was also hoping Mary would find out what a nightmare childhood her kids had and then go kill John in the afterlife, and that Ramiel would last longer than a single damn episode, and that Dean would someday put a better fucking trap in the trunk of the Impala but you can't always get what you want. Which this show never flipping tires of reminding me.
I do approve of Dagon. She can stay.
posted by Snarl Furillo at 4:47 AM on April 16, 2017 [1 favorite]
I was so happy to see Eileen back. Am sad that she will eventually get killed by these assholes though.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:50 PM on April 24, 2017
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:50 PM on April 24, 2017
Good news! The CW is planning a spinoff based on Sheriff Jody! I've long said there was a show to be had in that lady's adventures, but I never thought it'd really happen. (It still might not, but fingers crossed.)
(Also, should we assume that Fanfare coverage of this show is kaput? I'd like someplace to discuss that bloodbath of a season finale!)
posted by Ursula Hitler at 2:04 PM on June 20, 2017
(Also, should we assume that Fanfare coverage of this show is kaput? I'd like someplace to discuss that bloodbath of a season finale!)
posted by Ursula Hitler at 2:04 PM on June 20, 2017
I am so excited about Wayward Sisters OMG!!!
As someone who started a failed First Watch, I highly encourage people to post episode threads themselves. It was a giant relief when someone contacted me to ask if they could post a few episodes. It's not a breach of etiquette!
posted by Ruki at 6:21 PM on June 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
As someone who started a failed First Watch, I highly encourage people to post episode threads themselves. It was a giant relief when someone contacted me to ask if they could post a few episodes. It's not a breach of etiquette!
posted by Ruki at 6:21 PM on June 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
Me too! I absolutely want this spinoff! It's the perfect spinoff!
posted by jenfullmoon at 6:58 AM on June 23, 2017
posted by jenfullmoon at 6:58 AM on June 23, 2017
Remaining episodes in the season are live on FanFare!
DISCUSS AWAY!
posted by terilou at 9:58 AM on September 16, 2017
DISCUSS AWAY!
posted by terilou at 9:58 AM on September 16, 2017
oh man I totally dropped the ball on this, sorry! Also, new season soon!
posted by numaner at 2:08 PM on September 18, 2017
posted by numaner at 2:08 PM on September 18, 2017
Quotes
Castiel's voicemail message: This is my voicemail. Make your voice a mail.
Dean: I gotta hand it to Mick. Man, you get him started, that guy can drink. I mean, we can drink, but he's got, like, the "can drink" gold medal.
Sam: [commenting on Dagon having a demon who works for her and covers her tracks] Smart.
Dean: Dude, don't compliment the bad guys.
Sam: [to Dean] Hey, you talk to Mom lately?
Mick: Oh, shouldn't worry about your mum. Her and Ketch make quite the team.
Dean: Would you want *your* mom working with him?
Mick: Well, I can't say. I never really knew my mum. Or my dad. I was on the streets till the Men of Letters found me.
Sam: How did they find you?
Mick: I picked a member's pocket. Not on purpose. I was just after a couple of quid. But I got a cursed coin from Ancient Babylon instead.
Trivia
When Mary and Arthur Ketch are talking Mary is in the bathroom talking to a mirror reflection of Ketch who is clearly visible in the mirror. However when we hear Ketch talk we speak his lips do not move in his mirror image. There is no audio for his mirror reflection.
Dagon tells Kelly that birthing a nephilim is always fatal. However, in a previous episode, Castiel and several other angels show no surprise that the mother of a supposed nephilim is alive. Either Dagon is mistaken, lying, or this nephilim is different because the father is not just any angel, but is Lucifer.
Young Mick had dark brown eyes, while adult Mick has light green/blue eyes.
posted by orange swan at 11:03 AM on January 27, 2022
Castiel's voicemail message: This is my voicemail. Make your voice a mail.
Dean: I gotta hand it to Mick. Man, you get him started, that guy can drink. I mean, we can drink, but he's got, like, the "can drink" gold medal.
Sam: [commenting on Dagon having a demon who works for her and covers her tracks] Smart.
Dean: Dude, don't compliment the bad guys.
Sam: [to Dean] Hey, you talk to Mom lately?
Mick: Oh, shouldn't worry about your mum. Her and Ketch make quite the team.
Dean: Would you want *your* mom working with him?
Mick: Well, I can't say. I never really knew my mum. Or my dad. I was on the streets till the Men of Letters found me.
Sam: How did they find you?
Mick: I picked a member's pocket. Not on purpose. I was just after a couple of quid. But I got a cursed coin from Ancient Babylon instead.
Trivia
When Mary and Arthur Ketch are talking Mary is in the bathroom talking to a mirror reflection of Ketch who is clearly visible in the mirror. However when we hear Ketch talk we speak his lips do not move in his mirror image. There is no audio for his mirror reflection.
Dagon tells Kelly that birthing a nephilim is always fatal. However, in a previous episode, Castiel and several other angels show no surprise that the mother of a supposed nephilim is alive. Either Dagon is mistaken, lying, or this nephilim is different because the father is not just any angel, but is Lucifer.
Young Mick had dark brown eyes, while adult Mick has light green/blue eyes.
posted by orange swan at 11:03 AM on January 27, 2022
Fucking Ketch. Er, literally and figuratively speaking. I don't remember whether Sam and Dean ever find out that their mother banged him -- as I recall, they don't -- but it would have them getting the vapours.
Poor Mick. He deserved a better life. And a guy who can drink the Winchesters under the table deserves respect.
Nice to see Eileen again, and the development of her nascent relationship with Sam.
I'm in agreement with others in the thread who have said that this episode made the British Men of Letters over the top cartoonishly evil with the whole business with Mick and his classmate. It makes no damn sense to set two promising young students on each other.
And now they're going to kill every hunter in America? Yeah, great idea. Because you're totally prepared to take over the monster hunting on an entire continent. And the hunters totally won't ever kill your operatives instead. American guerrilla tactics have bested your organized forces before now, BMOL. Just saying.
posted by orange swan at 11:25 AM on January 27, 2022
Poor Mick. He deserved a better life. And a guy who can drink the Winchesters under the table deserves respect.
Nice to see Eileen again, and the development of her nascent relationship with Sam.
I'm in agreement with others in the thread who have said that this episode made the British Men of Letters over the top cartoonishly evil with the whole business with Mick and his classmate. It makes no damn sense to set two promising young students on each other.
And now they're going to kill every hunter in America? Yeah, great idea. Because you're totally prepared to take over the monster hunting on an entire continent. And the hunters totally won't ever kill your operatives instead. American guerrilla tactics have bested your organized forces before now, BMOL. Just saying.
posted by orange swan at 11:25 AM on January 27, 2022
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Recaps
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IMDb
My favorite part of the episode was Lucifer declaring there was only one true King. Very, very funny. So happy Mark Pellegrino is back.
posted by cfoxhi at 8:58 PM on April 7, 2017 [1 favorite]