The Expanse: Caliban's War
April 20, 2017 6:56 PM - Season 2, Episode 13 - Subscribe
Friendship ended with Cotyar. Now Bobbie is Chrisjen's best friend! asavage has a speaking cameo on UNS Arboghast, which goes poorly. Amos doesn't kill Holden.
It is the mark of a good life to have earned someone looking at you the way that Avasarala looked at Bobbie.
It is the mark of a good life to have earned someone looking at you the way that Avasarala looked at Bobbie.
Okay, I'm officially impressed with Bobbie now.
Can anyone explain WTH happened when the ship got taken apart like Lego? Was it being assimilated or something?
posted by Kitty Stardust at 7:13 PM on April 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
Can anyone explain WTH happened when the ship got taken apart like Lego? Was it being assimilated or something?
posted by Kitty Stardust at 7:13 PM on April 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
I was wondering why Bobbie used her armor to pick people up instead of shooting them, then realized the Martians would have unloaded all the weapons when they originally handed it to the UN for study.
I think the Arboghast was being studied. I kept waiting for the humans to get studied...
posted by Mogur at 7:31 PM on April 20, 2017 [4 favorites]
I think the Arboghast was being studied. I kept waiting for the humans to get studied...
posted by Mogur at 7:31 PM on April 20, 2017 [4 favorites]
I loved this episode. The series has really grown on me. In addition to the cast, the diversity, the kick ass women and men, and the fact that the characters feel true, trying to solve problems rather than doing dumb inexplicable things that are convenient for the narrative.
posted by zippy at 7:44 PM on April 20, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by zippy at 7:44 PM on April 20, 2017 [7 favorites]
I kept waiting for the humans to get studied...
It's already studied a few hundred thousand Belters.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:09 PM on April 20, 2017 [9 favorites]
It's already studied a few hundred thousand Belters.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:09 PM on April 20, 2017 [9 favorites]
The Arboghast getting taken apart like an exploded technical diagram was the protomolecule learning. Also notice that the "massive EM uptick" and the Martian ship just disappearing happened immediately after the protomolecule hybrid got vaporized by the Roci's drive plume, although relativistically at the distances they were at it's impossible for communication to have occurred. More protomolecule weirdness.
I loved the scene between Janus and Iturbi just before that: We understand each other well enough at this point that I'll make your argument, you make mine, and then we'll go ahead and do the thing that needs to be done. And I imagine that if you're a scientist, there are probably worse ways to go out than while realizing "I'm experiencing something no human before us has experienced."
Actually there were a number of scenes I loved, which I won't list now. But wow, Wes Chatham is great. Not just the shirtless fanservice (although, thanks for that, much appreciated) but the scene between him and Naomi with the apologies, and the scene with him and Holden when Holden's pinned… so good. I really hope casting directors are paying attention to what a subtle and interesting actor he is.
posted by Lexica at 9:19 PM on April 20, 2017 [16 favorites]
I loved the scene between Janus and Iturbi just before that: We understand each other well enough at this point that I'll make your argument, you make mine, and then we'll go ahead and do the thing that needs to be done. And I imagine that if you're a scientist, there are probably worse ways to go out than while realizing "I'm experiencing something no human before us has experienced."
Actually there were a number of scenes I loved, which I won't list now. But wow, Wes Chatham is great. Not just the shirtless fanservice (although, thanks for that, much appreciated) but the scene between him and Naomi with the apologies, and the scene with him and Holden when Holden's pinned… so good. I really hope casting directors are paying attention to what a subtle and interesting actor he is.
posted by Lexica at 9:19 PM on April 20, 2017 [16 favorites]
Avasarala prodding Cotyar's wound to revive him made me laugh hard. Perfect.
posted by hoodrich at 9:42 PM on April 20, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by hoodrich at 9:42 PM on April 20, 2017 [7 favorites]
Good episode, bad place to end a season, IMO. Sigh. I really shouldn't watch these things until they are done, especially when they do such short seasons.
posted by wierdo at 1:11 AM on April 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by wierdo at 1:11 AM on April 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
wierdo: Good episode, bad place to end a season, IMO. Sigh. I really shouldn't watch these things until they are done, especially when they do such short seasons.
I didn't even realize it was the season finale until now. :/
posted by bluecore at 6:49 AM on April 21, 2017
I didn't even realize it was the season finale until now. :/
posted by bluecore at 6:49 AM on April 21, 2017
Yeah, there were a lot of things that I really liked about this episode, but it seems like such an odd place to cut it. We still have no idea about Mei - or rather, we do but the protagonists don't. Avasarala's misfit crew aren't dead, but we have no idea about what comes next. This is about the midpoint of the book as I recall, though they did this last time as well.
posted by corb at 7:27 AM on April 21, 2017
posted by corb at 7:27 AM on April 21, 2017
They cut the season in an odd place last year too. It's odd places in the books for that matter. They're moving very quickly through the novel series, a bit too quickly for me right now.
Loved the visual effects splashout though. The shot of the protomonster framed in the drive engine, the exploded science ship on Venus. Good stuff.
posted by Nelson at 7:31 AM on April 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
Loved the visual effects splashout though. The shot of the protomonster framed in the drive engine, the exploded science ship on Venus. Good stuff.
posted by Nelson at 7:31 AM on April 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
I wish I could find a screenshot of Avasarala looking up at Bobbie in her power armor. There's LUUUURRRRRRVE there.
I was wondering why Bobbie used her armor to pick people up instead of shooting them, then realized the Martians would have unloaded all the weapons when they originally handed it to the UN for study.
Even if it were loaded, her gun is made for shooting other people in power armor and would just have vented the ship.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:50 AM on April 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
I was wondering why Bobbie used her armor to pick people up instead of shooting them, then realized the Martians would have unloaded all the weapons when they originally handed it to the UN for study.
Even if it were loaded, her gun is made for shooting other people in power armor and would just have vented the ship.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:50 AM on April 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
It was nice to see one of mefi's own, asavage, on the Arborghast. Maybe he could lobby for more metafilter extras (dibs). I'm sure we could pull together a crew for the "Fabam Et Laminam" easily enough.
Amos has been a favorite this season, just because of fantastic acting, and he's a real anomalous type of character, but the deeper we get into his development, the more I'm just super stoked about the character (and really amazed at Wes Chatham's acting work). Amos trying to make good choices is like the most badass thing he does in the show.
One of the themes that's been revived in this episode is how cognizant mid-level players are of their 'status' in this world, and how little control they have over global (systemal?) events. Even though it isn't a genuine offer, the captain goes into depth about the same sort of idea Amos has coined 'the churn.' Like, this is a very real way to see the world, and at first I thought it was just a coping mechanism that Amos developed to operate with his mental health issues, but the captain brings it up in almost the exact same way without the name. I'm on the fence about how heavy handed this is dealt with with the characters. Like, it seems almost too lucid? I don't know many people who are sort of as fatalistic about their place in our world, regardless of the accuracy of that mechanism. I don't know if i'm explaining this clearly.
Basically, the internalization of the idea behind "the churn" seems more prevalent to people of the Expanse universe than to ours. I don't think it's a bad thing, and it's not being handled in a heavy-handed manner, but it's an interesting theme for sure.
Even if it were loaded, her gun is made for shooting other people in power armor and would just have vented the ship.
Pretty sure, given how smart-towards-war the Martians are, they would have several types of ammunition built into a single suit. Don't military units do that today? I mean, even cops have a couple different options built into their arsenal. I'm guessing the power armor she's wearing is the human-level Roci, and that's just not being explained well; the most cutting edge of military technology built for a number of operations.
posted by furnace.heart at 8:55 AM on April 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
Amos has been a favorite this season, just because of fantastic acting, and he's a real anomalous type of character, but the deeper we get into his development, the more I'm just super stoked about the character (and really amazed at Wes Chatham's acting work). Amos trying to make good choices is like the most badass thing he does in the show.
One of the themes that's been revived in this episode is how cognizant mid-level players are of their 'status' in this world, and how little control they have over global (systemal?) events. Even though it isn't a genuine offer, the captain goes into depth about the same sort of idea Amos has coined 'the churn.' Like, this is a very real way to see the world, and at first I thought it was just a coping mechanism that Amos developed to operate with his mental health issues, but the captain brings it up in almost the exact same way without the name. I'm on the fence about how heavy handed this is dealt with with the characters. Like, it seems almost too lucid? I don't know many people who are sort of as fatalistic about their place in our world, regardless of the accuracy of that mechanism. I don't know if i'm explaining this clearly.
Basically, the internalization of the idea behind "the churn" seems more prevalent to people of the Expanse universe than to ours. I don't think it's a bad thing, and it's not being handled in a heavy-handed manner, but it's an interesting theme for sure.
Even if it were loaded, her gun is made for shooting other people in power armor and would just have vented the ship.
Pretty sure, given how smart-towards-war the Martians are, they would have several types of ammunition built into a single suit. Don't military units do that today? I mean, even cops have a couple different options built into their arsenal. I'm guessing the power armor she's wearing is the human-level Roci, and that's just not being explained well; the most cutting edge of military technology built for a number of operations.
posted by furnace.heart at 8:55 AM on April 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
Here ya go: a screenshot of Avasarala looking up at Bobbie in her power armor.
posted by Nelson at 9:08 AM on April 21, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by Nelson at 9:08 AM on April 21, 2017 [9 favorites]
Basically, the internalization of the idea behind "the churn" seems more prevalent to people of the Expanse universe than to ours. I don't think it's a bad thing, and it's not being handled in a heavy-handed manner, but it's an interesting theme for sure.
It feels very medieval, to me; it's an attitude that shows up a lot in Shakespeare when the poor are talking about how they're stuck in the power-games of the nobility. I think it's something that's more prevalent in ages where the divide between rich and powerful and everyone else is more formalized, which suggests - and they've certainly supported this with what little we've seen of earth, not to mention the life of the average belter - that the gap between the haves and the have-nots has grown insurmountably large. Given the way income inequality is growing in our time, the return of "the churn" kinds of attitudes, as opposed to poor Americans viewing themselves as temporarily embarrassed millionaires, feels to me like a very reasonable (if bleak) near-future prediction.
posted by mstokes650 at 9:18 AM on April 21, 2017 [13 favorites]
It feels very medieval, to me; it's an attitude that shows up a lot in Shakespeare when the poor are talking about how they're stuck in the power-games of the nobility. I think it's something that's more prevalent in ages where the divide between rich and powerful and everyone else is more formalized, which suggests - and they've certainly supported this with what little we've seen of earth, not to mention the life of the average belter - that the gap between the haves and the have-nots has grown insurmountably large. Given the way income inequality is growing in our time, the return of "the churn" kinds of attitudes, as opposed to poor Americans viewing themselves as temporarily embarrassed millionaires, feels to me like a very reasonable (if bleak) near-future prediction.
posted by mstokes650 at 9:18 AM on April 21, 2017 [13 favorites]
Spasibo, tovarisch!
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:18 AM on April 21, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:18 AM on April 21, 2017 [5 favorites]
It feels very medieval, to me; it's an attitude that shows up a lot in Shakespeare when the poor are talking about how they're stuck in the power-games of the nobility.
Yeah, that vibes right. I was also thinking that the actual size of population and the devaluation of life could be contributing factors here? Like, there's so many people on earth who just aren't really doing anything, that life is that much more devalued, so that bleeds over into the culture pretty strongly. The lack of mobility in this society seems pretty dismal.
I guess this also ties into Avasarala's threats to put people on basic assistance (and how incredibly powerful a threat that is).
posted by furnace.heart at 9:29 AM on April 21, 2017
Yeah, that vibes right. I was also thinking that the actual size of population and the devaluation of life could be contributing factors here? Like, there's so many people on earth who just aren't really doing anything, that life is that much more devalued, so that bleeds over into the culture pretty strongly. The lack of mobility in this society seems pretty dismal.
I guess this also ties into Avasarala's threats to put people on basic assistance (and how incredibly powerful a threat that is).
posted by furnace.heart at 9:29 AM on April 21, 2017
Here's a tweet with a GIF of it: The actual hearts in Avasarala's eyes though!
posted by Lexica at 10:26 AM on April 21, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by Lexica at 10:26 AM on April 21, 2017 [10 favorites]
This episode is as good a place as any to remark how much we have enjoyed the relationship between Avasalara and Cotyar, and specifically the delight that both actors have taken in it. Unfortunately, we can't help comparing and contrasting it to the screen incarnation of the relationship between Holden and Naomi.
I wanted to point out that the literal pro-forma discussion on the Arboghast between Janus and Iturbi is mirrored by the discussion between Cotyar and the security commander on the Guanshiyin. Elegant scripting.
posted by mwhybark at 10:31 AM on April 21, 2017 [9 favorites]
I wanted to point out that the literal pro-forma discussion on the Arboghast between Janus and Iturbi is mirrored by the discussion between Cotyar and the security commander on the Guanshiyin. Elegant scripting.
posted by mwhybark at 10:31 AM on April 21, 2017 [9 favorites]
I must admit: I love Bobbie's characterization this season, but the power armor scene visually didn't live up to what I was hoping. Rather than Han Soloing in at the end, I imagined her having to fight all the way back through the ship, Hulk smashing armed henchmen into bulkheads, using ammo specifically created for ship boarding to obliterate others, and just generally destroy anything that opposed her - doors, men, whatever. A pissed off Martian Marine in power armor should be the single most badass weapon system we've seen thus far, but I felt like we got a couple TJ Hooker stunt throws and that's it. Honestly would've preferred less time/money spent on the creature effects on the Roci and more on this.
posted by bluecore at 10:32 AM on April 21, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by bluecore at 10:32 AM on April 21, 2017 [10 favorites]
Basically, the internalization of the idea behind "the churn" seems more prevalent to people of the Expanse universe than to ours
It's a pretty common understanding in the military - that you will live or die for things that have little relation to your desires or choices. I know a lot of people who internalize it, so it didn't seem heavy handed to me at all.
posted by corb at 11:54 AM on April 21, 2017 [11 favorites]
It's a pretty common understanding in the military - that you will live or die for things that have little relation to your desires or choices. I know a lot of people who internalize it, so it didn't seem heavy handed to me at all.
posted by corb at 11:54 AM on April 21, 2017 [11 favorites]
To the folks complaining that we still haven't seen the full capabilities of Bobbie's suit: No, no we haven't. Considering there are many seasons' worth of material in the books, it's not much of a spoiler for me to say that Bobbie and her suit appear in more scenes and get to show more of what her suit can do.
Do you really want to see everything it's capable of the first time we get to really see it in action? That wouldn't leave anywhere to go.
posted by Lexica at 12:49 PM on April 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
Do you really want to see everything it's capable of the first time we get to really see it in action? That wouldn't leave anywhere to go.
posted by Lexica at 12:49 PM on April 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
That looked like pride in Avasarala's eyes to me. She'd seen the potential in a broken woman, and knew she was right to dust Bobbie off, put her back on her feet and add her to her team.
posted by rhamphorhynchus at 12:53 PM on April 21, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by rhamphorhynchus at 12:53 PM on April 21, 2017 [10 favorites]
A pissed off Martian Marine in power armor should be the single most badass weapon system we've seen thus far
On the other hand, the unarmed and unarmored Bobbie laid the smack down on two guards with (biometrically secured) automatic weapons.
posted by cardboard at 1:06 PM on April 21, 2017 [9 favorites]
On the other hand, the unarmed and unarmored Bobbie laid the smack down on two guards with (biometrically secured) automatic weapons.
posted by cardboard at 1:06 PM on April 21, 2017 [9 favorites]
To the folks complaining that we still haven't seen the full capabilities of Bobbie's suit: No, no we haven't.
I don't think we ever will. There's an asavage thing on tested where he's talking to the costume/prop people about the power armor suit, and they chose to go with a suit that Adams can walk around and act in. As opposed to Eyeron Man, where RDJ can't lift his arms except in the partial suit that's built especially for him lifting his arms (and fucks up something else).
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 1:07 PM on April 21, 2017
I don't think we ever will. There's an asavage thing on tested where he's talking to the costume/prop people about the power armor suit, and they chose to go with a suit that Adams can walk around and act in. As opposed to Eyeron Man, where RDJ can't lift his arms except in the partial suit that's built especially for him lifting his arms (and fucks up something else).
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 1:07 PM on April 21, 2017
Lexica: Do you really want to see everything it's capable of the first time we get to really see it in action? That wouldn't leave anywhere to go.
I wasn't wishing for new capabilities, I was wishing for better scripted and shot action. We knew she left to get her armor, so a Han Solo appearance didn't do anything for me. I wanted to see her fighting her way back to Avasarala in a corridor of commandos, picking them up by their heads and bashing them against bulkheads like cantaloupes, picking up a dead one and using it as riot shield as the others fill the hallway with bullets from their assault rifles, punching through airlock doors sealed in front of her as they flee. Throwing a couple of them into conveniently place bookcases felt, as I said, like the stunts in a network cop show. I wanted Bobbie unleashed to be brutal and visceral.
cardboard: On the other hand, the unarmed and unarmored Bobbie laid the smack down on two guards with (biometrically secured) automatic weapons.
Yes, cool, but not very well shot, I'd argue. It felt slow. I don't need Bourne shaky cam, but it was a little too wide for my taste. The biometrically secured weapons were a nice touch, however.
posted by bluecore at 1:27 PM on April 21, 2017 [6 favorites]
I wasn't wishing for new capabilities, I was wishing for better scripted and shot action. We knew she left to get her armor, so a Han Solo appearance didn't do anything for me. I wanted to see her fighting her way back to Avasarala in a corridor of commandos, picking them up by their heads and bashing them against bulkheads like cantaloupes, picking up a dead one and using it as riot shield as the others fill the hallway with bullets from their assault rifles, punching through airlock doors sealed in front of her as they flee. Throwing a couple of them into conveniently place bookcases felt, as I said, like the stunts in a network cop show. I wanted Bobbie unleashed to be brutal and visceral.
cardboard: On the other hand, the unarmed and unarmored Bobbie laid the smack down on two guards with (biometrically secured) automatic weapons.
Yes, cool, but not very well shot, I'd argue. It felt slow. I don't need Bourne shaky cam, but it was a little too wide for my taste. The biometrically secured weapons were a nice touch, however.
posted by bluecore at 1:27 PM on April 21, 2017 [6 favorites]
I bet they were making her be extra careful after she threw the last dude into the tv set hard enough to shatter it.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 1:29 PM on April 21, 2017 [26 favorites]
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 1:29 PM on April 21, 2017 [26 favorites]
That looked like pride in Avasarala's eyes to me. She'd seen the potential in a broken woman, and knew she was right to dust Bobbie off, put her back on her feet and add her to her team.
Could be! I see that too!
But I also see "Here is my new daughter" and even a little bit of "Take me now, sub-creature."
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 1:30 PM on April 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
Could be! I see that too!
But I also see "Here is my new daughter" and even a little bit of "Take me now, sub-creature."
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 1:30 PM on April 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
"I'm sure we could pull together a crew for the "Fabam Et Laminam" easily enough."
BEST.MEETUP. EVAR.
posted by lapolla at 1:45 PM on April 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
BEST.MEETUP. EVAR.
posted by lapolla at 1:45 PM on April 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
and also!
we all see something in Ava's eyes; for me, it was RESPECT. which is closely related to love and pride, it's true. Bobbi is, literally, her hero. oh and, i don't think the friendship between her and Cotyar is done. but the trust, is.
but then, a person like Avasarala probably has very few friends, and even fewer that she can trust.
i agree with bluecore - as delightful as that look was, i found Bobbi's reappearance disappointing. her rescue of Avasarala deserved more than a slo-mo bit in a montage. also, that sequence with the elevator has been done too many times, in too many places. i loved her exchange with the electrician, though. when he asked her to rough him up a bit, her expression was so, so good.
as for Prax and the proto-monster? i almost wondered if he let it get close enough to realize it really was NOT Mei. somehow, looking into its eyes, he knew. at least, that is what i would like to think, as otherwise, everyone's attitude - and especially Prax's - was far too glib upon destroying the thing. i mean, y'know - whoo-hoo, got it! and all... even though i do not think there is still a "child inside" it. a new life form, yes. but not a human child, or the essence of one; not anymore.
and yes, Lexica! Wes Chatham is AMAZING. who would have thought that Amos would be my favorite character? not me. but Chatham brings such complexity to the character, with so little visible effort. brilliant. his eyes are SO expressive.
that said - Dominique Tipper owned this episode. Naomi really isn't my fave, but damn - that speech. if you just close your eyes and listen, and don't get distracted by the montage (and that fantastic moment when the research ship flies apart - OMG), you can hear how much she brings to it. it could have been corny, or banal. but it is achingly earnest.
and yeah this really didn't seem like a season finale. more like a mid-season break. but it was a good episode and not a bad place to pause - I AM SO HAPPY THERE IS A SEASON 3!!!
posted by lapolla at 2:17 PM on April 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
we all see something in Ava's eyes; for me, it was RESPECT. which is closely related to love and pride, it's true. Bobbi is, literally, her hero. oh and, i don't think the friendship between her and Cotyar is done. but the trust, is.
but then, a person like Avasarala probably has very few friends, and even fewer that she can trust.
i agree with bluecore - as delightful as that look was, i found Bobbi's reappearance disappointing. her rescue of Avasarala deserved more than a slo-mo bit in a montage. also, that sequence with the elevator has been done too many times, in too many places. i loved her exchange with the electrician, though. when he asked her to rough him up a bit, her expression was so, so good.
as for Prax and the proto-monster? i almost wondered if he let it get close enough to realize it really was NOT Mei. somehow, looking into its eyes, he knew. at least, that is what i would like to think, as otherwise, everyone's attitude - and especially Prax's - was far too glib upon destroying the thing. i mean, y'know - whoo-hoo, got it! and all... even though i do not think there is still a "child inside" it. a new life form, yes. but not a human child, or the essence of one; not anymore.
and yes, Lexica! Wes Chatham is AMAZING. who would have thought that Amos would be my favorite character? not me. but Chatham brings such complexity to the character, with so little visible effort. brilliant. his eyes are SO expressive.
that said - Dominique Tipper owned this episode. Naomi really isn't my fave, but damn - that speech. if you just close your eyes and listen, and don't get distracted by the montage (and that fantastic moment when the research ship flies apart - OMG), you can hear how much she brings to it. it could have been corny, or banal. but it is achingly earnest.
and yeah this really didn't seem like a season finale. more like a mid-season break. but it was a good episode and not a bad place to pause - I AM SO HAPPY THERE IS A SEASON 3!!!
posted by lapolla at 2:17 PM on April 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
It's interesting to see that the people going balls to the wall in favor of leapfrogging human evolution to make us all protodudes have already achieved their human dreams.
Mao, Errinright, the doctors that have died, everyone willing to toss aside things like Bobbi's exoskeleton suit -- they literally have everything, they are at the very apex of human accomplishment. Do they even dream anymore, or have real ambitions?
The people most horrified by the protomolecule's power don't see it as an evolutionary leap. These people mostly have nothing -- they have their lives, but they are soldiers on Mars without an atmosphere to breathe. They are Belters struggling for their next breath, drink, bite of food, another day of life. These people still have HUMAN dreams they're not willing to let go of -- quite a contrast to the massive Haves pushing the protomolecule/human hybridization.
Interesting, isn't it? And just another of many, many parallels we've seen in the story so far.
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 5:30 PM on April 21, 2017 [16 favorites]
Mao, Errinright, the doctors that have died, everyone willing to toss aside things like Bobbi's exoskeleton suit -- they literally have everything, they are at the very apex of human accomplishment. Do they even dream anymore, or have real ambitions?
The people most horrified by the protomolecule's power don't see it as an evolutionary leap. These people mostly have nothing -- they have their lives, but they are soldiers on Mars without an atmosphere to breathe. They are Belters struggling for their next breath, drink, bite of food, another day of life. These people still have HUMAN dreams they're not willing to let go of -- quite a contrast to the massive Haves pushing the protomolecule/human hybridization.
Interesting, isn't it? And just another of many, many parallels we've seen in the story so far.
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 5:30 PM on April 21, 2017 [16 favorites]
> see something in Ava's eyes; for me, it was RESPECT
Yyyyyes, respect... and I do totally agree with the love/family/friends/trust thing 100%.
Maybe the books have coloured by perception but my take on that was that there was a significant amount of a Monty Burns steepled-fingered "Exxxxcellent."
Yes there is genuine affection for Bobbie, but also a big dollop of possessiveness and self congratulations for scoring such a useful and potent tool (catspaw/chess-piece/whatever) - and the wheels are already spinning on how to best apply Bobbie in a ... not "unscrupulous" but perhaps strategic manner for maximum effect.
Unicorn on the cob - yes, totally. It's mortality, one of the very few things in common between those who have achieved the apex of human accomplishment* and those struggling for another day of life, that is driving Mao and their ilk. This ilk, perhaps better explained in the books (and perhaps counter-argued in Clarissa), seem to care more about themselves than in merely having successful offspring - qv belters sacrificing themselves for their kids vs. Mao not particularly giving a shit about his (vs. Avasarala caring/loving/enjoying her grandchildren vs. Holden's polygamous family melding genetically into a single child for economic reasons - who then goes off to follow very high mortality rate/fertility endangering career(s)).
I don't know if this is too bukwala-ey, but some (at least) of the principals who were in the know about the protomolecule before general knowledge think/thought that they know something "special." Though, several very important and impactful implications can be easily drawn once the existence and purported origins of the protomolecule are known. All of this will probably be presented to the viewer mid next season?
*I would have chosen a different word, perhaps "success within societal systems of the moment"
posted by porpoise at 6:13 PM on April 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
Yyyyyes, respect... and I do totally agree with the love/family/friends/trust thing 100%.
Maybe the books have coloured by perception but my take on that was that there was a significant amount of a Monty Burns steepled-fingered "Exxxxcellent."
Yes there is genuine affection for Bobbie, but also a big dollop of possessiveness and self congratulations for scoring such a useful and potent tool (catspaw/chess-piece/whatever) - and the wheels are already spinning on how to best apply Bobbie in a ... not "unscrupulous" but perhaps strategic manner for maximum effect.
Unicorn on the cob - yes, totally. It's mortality, one of the very few things in common between those who have achieved the apex of human accomplishment* and those struggling for another day of life, that is driving Mao and their ilk. This ilk, perhaps better explained in the books (and perhaps counter-argued in Clarissa), seem to care more about themselves than in merely having successful offspring - qv belters sacrificing themselves for their kids vs. Mao not particularly giving a shit about his (vs. Avasarala caring/loving/enjoying her grandchildren vs. Holden's polygamous family melding genetically into a single child for economic reasons - who then goes off to follow very high mortality rate/fertility endangering career(s)).
I don't know if this is too bukwala-ey, but some (at least) of the principals who were in the know about the protomolecule before general knowledge think/thought that they know something "special." Though, several very important and impactful implications can be easily drawn once the existence and purported origins of the protomolecule are known. All of this will probably be presented to the viewer mid next season?
*I would have chosen a different word, perhaps "success within societal systems of the moment"
posted by porpoise at 6:13 PM on April 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
I would wager that the season four opener will feature Bobbie taking over the entire ship with Avasarala walking serenely behind her, dropping f-bombs. Mao is going DOWN.
posted by Ber at 10:27 PM on April 21, 2017
posted by Ber at 10:27 PM on April 21, 2017
The bit with Bobbie and the electrician was more badass than the bit in the power-armor, I think - Bobbie is unarmed, walking slowly, speaking calmly, and the electrician is absolutely *terrified*. For me, this is the scene that sells Bobbie as an absolutely devestating force. And, er, also kind of hot.
posted by Mr. Excellent at 9:05 AM on April 22, 2017 [22 favorites]
posted by Mr. Excellent at 9:05 AM on April 22, 2017 [22 favorites]
I felt like we got a couple TJ Hooker stunt throws and that's it
I was a little bit disappointed too but the conundrum with filmed scifi is that it's horribly expensive to get right. The Expanse looks great but like other TV scifi shows there's a lot of people-talking-in-corridors scenes. But if the producers could get the budget for better action sequences, we know what would happen: instead of a smart TV show we'd get a tentpole franchise of $200 million action movies featuring Chris Pratt as Holden, Vin Diesel as Amos, Margot Robbie as Naomi, Scarlett Johansson as Bobbie, Kevin Hart as Alex and Sigourney Weaver as Chrisjen Avasarala.
posted by elgilito at 12:04 PM on April 22, 2017 [10 favorites]
I was a little bit disappointed too but the conundrum with filmed scifi is that it's horribly expensive to get right. The Expanse looks great but like other TV scifi shows there's a lot of people-talking-in-corridors scenes. But if the producers could get the budget for better action sequences, we know what would happen: instead of a smart TV show we'd get a tentpole franchise of $200 million action movies featuring Chris Pratt as Holden, Vin Diesel as Amos, Margot Robbie as Naomi, Scarlett Johansson as Bobbie, Kevin Hart as Alex and Sigourney Weaver as Chrisjen Avasarala.
posted by elgilito at 12:04 PM on April 22, 2017 [10 favorites]
Although I realize the cosmonaut contingent on the ISS probably has one I expect there'll be very few guns allowed on spaceships, or anything that easily makes holes in the walls. The elevator scene was a bit lame and something to show off the suit could've been cool (say a heads-up targeting of a flick of a teacup that takes out one of the bad guys).
posted by sammyo at 12:39 PM on April 22, 2017
posted by sammyo at 12:39 PM on April 22, 2017
The epic build-up to the power armour, followed by a quiet and slackly choreographed two seconds of Bobbie cow-tipping in a field, was super lame.
I could have done with less of the Roci Protomolecule - which, according to my stardate calculations, spent a cumulative three days of in-universe time punching through one (1) aluminium floor, and going up and down a ladder - and had some of that CGI budget put towards more PA-Bobbie kick-assery.
The exploded diagram of the Arboghast was probably the coolest thing ever, though.
posted by turbid dahlia at 5:19 PM on April 22, 2017 [14 favorites]
I could have done with less of the Roci Protomolecule - which, according to my stardate calculations, spent a cumulative three days of in-universe time punching through one (1) aluminium floor, and going up and down a ladder - and had some of that CGI budget put towards more PA-Bobbie kick-assery.
The exploded diagram of the Arboghast was probably the coolest thing ever, though.
posted by turbid dahlia at 5:19 PM on April 22, 2017 [14 favorites]
It's worth keeping in mind that this is apparently one of the biggest-budget sci-fi TV shows to date, at $5-6 million per episode back in S1, which I'm guessing has only gone up. On one of the Expanse-related podcasts (I forget which), Naren Shankar mentioned that the accounting department at Alcon Entertainment refer to the show as "The Expense".
Alcon kind of make me crazy. They've basically got fans hammering on their door hollering "We want merch! We want shirts! and posters! and a Belter language textbook! and… we dunno, offer it to us and we'll buy it!" And Alcon are just… nah, we're not sure there's actually any demand for this.
TAKE MY MONEY DAMMIT! LET ME SHOW MY TEAM ROCI PRIDE! I WANT AN OPA SHIRT! Argh.
posted by Lexica at 5:39 PM on April 22, 2017 [11 favorites]
Alcon kind of make me crazy. They've basically got fans hammering on their door hollering "We want merch! We want shirts! and posters! and a Belter language textbook! and… we dunno, offer it to us and we'll buy it!" And Alcon are just… nah, we're not sure there's actually any demand for this.
TAKE MY MONEY DAMMIT! LET ME SHOW MY TEAM ROCI PRIDE! I WANT AN OPA SHIRT! Argh.
posted by Lexica at 5:39 PM on April 22, 2017 [11 favorites]
If it's close to getting cancelled perhaps Netflix can pick it up.
They should create a company called Rand Enterprises to make it so we know it's an apology for Iron Fist.
posted by fullerine at 9:21 PM on April 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
They should create a company called Rand Enterprises to make it so we know it's an apology for Iron Fist.
posted by fullerine at 9:21 PM on April 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
a tentpole franchise of $200 million action movies featuring Chris Pratt as Holden, Vin Diesel as Amos, Margot Robbie as Naomi, Scarlett Johansson as Bobbie, Kevin Hart as Alex and Sigourney Weaver as Chrisjen Avasarala
and yet, i would watch that so hard.
(seriously, the elevator fight scene in Winter Solder was one of the most exhilarating action sequences i've seen. beautifully choreographed.)
posted by lapolla at 1:10 AM on April 23, 2017
and yet, i would watch that so hard.
(seriously, the elevator fight scene in Winter Solder was one of the most exhilarating action sequences i've seen. beautifully choreographed.)
posted by lapolla at 1:10 AM on April 23, 2017
Lexica - i would love some Belter temporary tattoos!
posted by lapolla at 1:16 AM on April 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by lapolla at 1:16 AM on April 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
It's already been renewed for Season 3 so no need to worry for a while! The ratings and buzz online are all growing, I think.
posted by adrianhon at 2:57 AM on April 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by adrianhon at 2:57 AM on April 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
Oh, that reminds me – if you've got an inkjet printer, here are some Belter temporary tattoos generously provided by the Belt-punk band Xetamangz.
posted by Lexica at 9:55 AM on April 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Lexica at 9:55 AM on April 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
Hope this hasn't been linked previously, but here's Adam Savage talking to Wes Chatham.
posted by mordax at 10:28 AM on April 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by mordax at 10:28 AM on April 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
I miss asavage, but it was a sacrifice in the name of science.
posted by vanar sena at 9:12 PM on April 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by vanar sena at 9:12 PM on April 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
Savage's goofy look of worried awe when the ship got disassembled was classic.
posted by turbid dahlia at 9:31 PM on April 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by turbid dahlia at 9:31 PM on April 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
I expect there'll be very few guns allowed on spaceships, or anything that easily makes holes in the walls
For what it's worth, in the books they do talk about how there is special ammo designed for in-ship shooting which is designed to go through human beings but not ship bulkheads (and also recoilless ammo where the gun is actually more of a miniature rocket-launcher so that people shooting guns in zero-g don't necessarily go flying back in the opposite direction). They don't dwell on it, probably because it's not terribly plausible from a physics perspective, but they do at least take the time to tell the reader "we are hand-waving this away," which I appreciated.
posted by whir at 10:38 PM on April 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
For what it's worth, in the books they do talk about how there is special ammo designed for in-ship shooting which is designed to go through human beings but not ship bulkheads (and also recoilless ammo where the gun is actually more of a miniature rocket-launcher so that people shooting guns in zero-g don't necessarily go flying back in the opposite direction). They don't dwell on it, probably because it's not terribly plausible from a physics perspective, but they do at least take the time to tell the reader "we are hand-waving this away," which I appreciated.
posted by whir at 10:38 PM on April 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
The latter might not be plausible but the former should be fairly easy. Some sort of ultra-soft hollow point round.
posted by Justinian at 12:14 AM on April 24, 2017
posted by Justinian at 12:14 AM on April 24, 2017
Frangible ammo exists, though I don't know that it's ever been issued/used. "Recoilless" rifles and pistols have existed for decades though ISTR they're just less-recoil.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 6:01 AM on April 24, 2017
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 6:01 AM on April 24, 2017
Hat Cop noted that the guards on the station that the IPA raided were armed with gel rounds. Which didn't do any damage on a space suit.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 6:06 AM on April 24, 2017
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 6:06 AM on April 24, 2017
A small confession: I watch Expanse on my iPad, and for a few minutes afterwards, I'm tapping and swiping, pretending I'm working on a spaceship. :)
posted by Mogur at 6:15 AM on April 24, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Mogur at 6:15 AM on April 24, 2017 [3 favorites]
You are working on SPACESHIP EARTH! Hurtling through the cosmos at whatever km/sec!
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:47 AM on April 24, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:47 AM on April 24, 2017 [6 favorites]
Mogur, you must try this and get your nearby fellow iPad people to follow suit. I think there may be additional similar apps as well. I have had it installed on this and that device but never had the gumption to gather a crew for a living room session with the TV as the main viewport. Really oughta do that someday.
posted by mwhybark at 1:50 PM on April 24, 2017
posted by mwhybark at 1:50 PM on April 24, 2017
Spaceteam seems like it might be more accurate, given what we've seen of the rustbuckets lots of Belters are floating around in...
("FRAMMINATE THE JIB-JAB! WHO'S GOT THE JIB-JAB? FRAMMINATE IT BEFORE WE BLOW UP, DAMMIT!")
posted by Lexica at 3:10 PM on April 24, 2017 [7 favorites]
("FRAMMINATE THE JIB-JAB! WHO'S GOT THE JIB-JAB? FRAMMINATE IT BEFORE WE BLOW UP, DAMMIT!")
posted by Lexica at 3:10 PM on April 24, 2017 [7 favorites]
Frangible ammo exists, though I don't know that it's ever been issued/used. "Recoilless" rifles and pistols have existed for decades though ISTR they're just less-recoil.
Air Marshals load frangible ammo for the same reason one would use it on a spacecraft. It penetrates flesh, but doesn't tear up the aluminum skin. So yeah, it is a thing that exists. A small hole wouldn't cause catastrophic decompression or anything (there's already a vent on the order of a square meter on large aircraft!), just an annoying whistling noise, but the irregularly shaped hole and the stress involved in making it could easily lead to much larger holes thanks to crack propagation. It would not be nice to have a DHC Comet or Hawaiian Airlines situation suddenly develop because an Air Marshal felt the need to shoot someone.
Recoilless rifles also exist (and work!), it's just a matter of pointing the exhaust gases the right way to offset the momentum of the projectile. IIRC they are employed fairly widely in the military for ridiculously large caliber weapons that would otherwise be impossible to fire accurately in bursts. I believe the Soviets even issued recoilless handguns to Cosmonauts at one point. Plus they fitted some of their early space stations with large recoilless guns, similar in concept to how WWII bombers had gun turrets for defense.
posted by wierdo at 6:57 PM on April 25, 2017
Air Marshals load frangible ammo for the same reason one would use it on a spacecraft. It penetrates flesh, but doesn't tear up the aluminum skin. So yeah, it is a thing that exists. A small hole wouldn't cause catastrophic decompression or anything (there's already a vent on the order of a square meter on large aircraft!), just an annoying whistling noise, but the irregularly shaped hole and the stress involved in making it could easily lead to much larger holes thanks to crack propagation. It would not be nice to have a DHC Comet or Hawaiian Airlines situation suddenly develop because an Air Marshal felt the need to shoot someone.
Recoilless rifles also exist (and work!), it's just a matter of pointing the exhaust gases the right way to offset the momentum of the projectile. IIRC they are employed fairly widely in the military for ridiculously large caliber weapons that would otherwise be impossible to fire accurately in bursts. I believe the Soviets even issued recoilless handguns to Cosmonauts at one point. Plus they fitted some of their early space stations with large recoilless guns, similar in concept to how WWII bombers had gun turrets for defense.
posted by wierdo at 6:57 PM on April 25, 2017
lapolla: i found Bobbi's reappearance disappointing. her rescue of Avasarala deserved more than a slo-mo bit in a montage
I read it as: Bobbie's rescue of Avasarala was inevitable; the only tension was if she could get there in time. Hence the almost perfunctory fight sequence.
posted by dhruva at 8:33 AM on April 26, 2017 [7 favorites]
I read it as: Bobbie's rescue of Avasarala was inevitable; the only tension was if she could get there in time. Hence the almost perfunctory fight sequence.
posted by dhruva at 8:33 AM on April 26, 2017 [7 favorites]
I kinda wished I'd had a copy of that map Bobbie found to refer to for the rest of the episode, since I wasn't sure how close she was to her goal at any point in the "can Bobbie get there in time?!" sequence. OTOH I am probably better off not trying to match scenery to a real map; that way lies the No-Prize.
Probably time to get on with reading the books before the next season, but I've really been enjoying watching the show fresh. Y'all have been great about being oblique about future plot points, and thank you for that!
posted by asperity at 11:29 AM on April 26, 2017
Probably time to get on with reading the books before the next season, but I've really been enjoying watching the show fresh. Y'all have been great about being oblique about future plot points, and thank you for that!
posted by asperity at 11:29 AM on April 26, 2017
dhruva: I read it as: Bobbie's rescue of Avasarala was inevitable; the only tension was if she could get there in time. Hence the almost perfunctory fight sequence.
If rescue seems inevitable, then the writers & director dropped the ball. If you want to increase the tension of whether she'll arrive in time, you give her more obstacles, not less. Maybe season 3 will start with them fighting back to their own ship, but I'd argue you put your fireworks in the season finale.
posted by bluecore at 1:50 PM on April 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
If rescue seems inevitable, then the writers & director dropped the ball. If you want to increase the tension of whether she'll arrive in time, you give her more obstacles, not less. Maybe season 3 will start with them fighting back to their own ship, but I'd argue you put your fireworks in the season finale.
posted by bluecore at 1:50 PM on April 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
I guess giving us someone to worry about in those scenes is why they had Cotyar get shot.
posted by rhamphorhynchus at 5:24 PM on April 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by rhamphorhynchus at 5:24 PM on April 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
It looked to me like the protomonster was still climbing/walking on the deck under gravity when Alex had cut the engines and everything was supposedly under zero-g.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 5:16 PM on April 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 5:16 PM on April 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
If I were a protomonster I would totally have feet covered in tiny suction cups.
posted by asperity at 5:33 PM on April 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by asperity at 5:33 PM on April 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
Lil Proty don't care about the laws of man and physics. Proty-Eros turned off its inertia to dodge the Navoo.
posted by zippy at 8:01 AM on May 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by zippy at 8:01 AM on May 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
> Do they even dream anymore, or have real ambitions?
Stay tuned for next couple seasons; the dreaming will begin anew.
posted by Sunburnt at 4:51 PM on May 4, 2017
Stay tuned for next couple seasons; the dreaming will begin anew.
posted by Sunburnt at 4:51 PM on May 4, 2017
quick stub of a thought: surely the Jupiter Mining Corporation of Red Dwarf must exist in the Expansiverse.
corollary: there is no Red Dwarf thread in FanFare. Is there?
(I only this week learned of the show's two most recent seasons. I'm about halfway through X and am very pleasantly surprised, especially after the crushing disappointment of IX, "Back to Earth".)
posted by mwhybark at 9:10 PM on August 18, 2017
corollary: there is no Red Dwarf thread in FanFare. Is there?
(I only this week learned of the show's two most recent seasons. I'm about halfway through X and am very pleasantly surprised, especially after the crushing disappointment of IX, "Back to Earth".)
posted by mwhybark at 9:10 PM on August 18, 2017
This show was/is fucking really well written. And acted, holy cow is it well acted - I really relish the actors, there isn't really a single one I can't bear... well, Holden is kind of squinty/frowny at times but the rest... a fucking great cast. Bobbie Draper (has no one mentioned that her dad runs an ad agency? Wait, he doesn't? Oh.) coming back to kick butt was sweet/kickass: it could have been comfortably twice as long but Avasarala's look pretty much made up for it. (Her voice is so fantastic - and they way she uses it: when she tells Cotyar to go kick ass if he's gonna ditch her... I think I underestimate her ruthlessness often because of her warm demeanor.) this is another aspect of the series I really appreciate, women wield significant power, drive the narrative. And the narrative never really clunks along, it hums nicely.
The biggest problem is that now I've watched them all, and god only knows when season three will come out on Netflix... sigh. But serious kudos to the makers of this - it's very, very satisfying.
posted by From Bklyn at 5:12 AM on September 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
The biggest problem is that now I've watched them all, and god only knows when season three will come out on Netflix... sigh. But serious kudos to the makers of this - it's very, very satisfying.
posted by From Bklyn at 5:12 AM on September 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
Well, I've finally been able to watch season 2 (really loooong delay getting on Netflix in Australia). Thanks for all the good commentary and background in the Fanfare threads. I've read through each one after watching the corresponding episodes. Now I just need to be patient while you all get to enjoy and talk about season 3.
posted by michswiss at 4:52 AM on October 5, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by michswiss at 4:52 AM on October 5, 2017 [1 favorite]
CASTING NEWS FOR SEASON 3:
New cast members in recurring roles, with who they might be playing ROT13d for book-info.
David Strathairn -- [fan theories, kinda fits] Ohyy
Elizabeth Mitchell -- [seems likely, dunno who else] Naan Ibybibqbi
Anna Hopkins -- [confirmed] Zbavpn Fghneg
Nadine Nicole -- [confirmed] Crnpurf
I
AM
EXCITE
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 6:33 PM on November 2, 2017
New cast members in recurring roles, with who they might be playing ROT13d for book-info.
David Strathairn -- [fan theories, kinda fits] Ohyy
Elizabeth Mitchell -- [seems likely, dunno who else] Naan Ibybibqbi
Anna Hopkins -- [confirmed] Zbavpn Fghneg
Nadine Nicole -- [confirmed] Crnpurf
I
AM
EXCITE
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 6:33 PM on November 2, 2017
Just finished the season, was at least glad to not have to dig through broken links on questionable sites for the last 5 episodes since Syfy have them and my friend's FiOS cable account worked for it.
I can't wait for season 3!
The character development for this show is leagues above others, even after 2 seasons. And I'm really glad they rounded out the team with Prax. Although I'm sure we'll see Miller in season 3. I mean, they can't die that easily in Venus if there's enough proto-power there to disassemble those two ships.
And I'm enjoying Draper kicking butt. I know all you buklowta call her Bobbie, but they said her first name like maybe 3 times the entire season. In my head she's still Gunny, but now that she's not with the marines anymore she's Draper. I mean, it still even says that on her power armor.
That end speech by Naomi was just fantastic. Tipper is so great, I hope she gets awesome roles after this series is done.
side note: I've had to skip a lot of comments on these threads because of book talk, so I'm glad book threads are made. I'm probably not going to read the books, so reading about comparisons with the books are not productive for me. But I appreciate everyone keeping spoilers to a minimum.
posted by numaner at 11:11 PM on November 28, 2017
I can't wait for season 3!
The character development for this show is leagues above others, even after 2 seasons. And I'm really glad they rounded out the team with Prax. Although I'm sure we'll see Miller in season 3. I mean, they can't die that easily in Venus if there's enough proto-power there to disassemble those two ships.
And I'm enjoying Draper kicking butt. I know all you buklowta call her Bobbie, but they said her first name like maybe 3 times the entire season. In my head she's still Gunny, but now that she's not with the marines anymore she's Draper. I mean, it still even says that on her power armor.
That end speech by Naomi was just fantastic. Tipper is so great, I hope she gets awesome roles after this series is done.
side note: I've had to skip a lot of comments on these threads because of book talk, so I'm glad book threads are made. I'm probably not going to read the books, so reading about comparisons with the books are not productive for me. But I appreciate everyone keeping spoilers to a minimum.
posted by numaner at 11:11 PM on November 28, 2017
To me the protomonster just kind of looked cheap, somehow. It was the first time I thought anything in the series looked like they had a TV budget rather than a feature film budget. Maybe wrapped up in that was my feeling that the Protomolecule in the forms we've seen it so far has been pretty unique and scary in its own way, and now we're just back in skiffy monster movie territory.
But I still enjoyed the last couple of episodes and would rank the show as one of my favorite SF TV series.
posted by Foosnark at 12:20 PM on February 26, 2018
But I still enjoyed the last couple of episodes and would rank the show as one of my favorite SF TV series.
posted by Foosnark at 12:20 PM on February 26, 2018
So I’ve been studying Lang Belta since season 1 (which is tough as there is no official textbook yet), and I have finally uploaded an original song in Belter.
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 7:49 AM on March 28, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 7:49 AM on March 28, 2018 [4 favorites]
that makes you a Pirate-Bartenda-Zombie-Monkey-Songwalla, yeah?
posted by mwhybark at 10:20 AM on March 28, 2018
posted by mwhybark at 10:20 AM on March 28, 2018
Sowngitwala: “Music person”
Adewumang: “Singer”
Is at least how I would translate it. ;-)
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 10:50 AM on March 28, 2018 [2 favorites]
Adewumang: “Singer”
Is at least how I would translate it. ;-)
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 10:50 AM on March 28, 2018 [2 favorites]
Anyone know if the UK is getting Season 3 (on Netflix) the same time as the US gets it (11th April)?
posted by EndsOfInvention at 5:58 AM on April 5, 2018
posted by EndsOfInvention at 5:58 AM on April 5, 2018
I believe that due to contract stipulations w Amazon Prime, Syfy, & Netflix, North America gets it first.
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 1:51 PM on April 6, 2018
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 1:51 PM on April 6, 2018
Uh-oh. I haven't taken the day off work...
posted by asperity at 2:20 PM on April 6, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by asperity at 2:20 PM on April 6, 2018 [1 favorite]
Wait, we will be getting it all on April 11?
lana_nope.mp4
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 2:44 PM on April 6, 2018
lana_nope.mp4
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 2:44 PM on April 6, 2018
Sorry, no idea if it's all at once or week by week (I'm just used to the all-at-once Netflix dump). I only started watching after season 2 had ended so I have no idea how it was released previously.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 5:30 PM on April 6, 2018
posted by EndsOfInvention at 5:30 PM on April 6, 2018
Looks like one ep a week (according to google; e02 drops April 18th). Maybe a full dump on streaming services after the run?
posted by porpoise at 6:14 PM on April 6, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by porpoise at 6:14 PM on April 6, 2018 [1 favorite]
A POLITICAL HISTORY OF THE FUTURE: THE EXPANSE, Abigail Nussbaum
So, despite a setting that seems to promise a rich political story, The Expanse quickly reveals itself as a bug hunt with political undertones. The two storylines, the political and SFnal, intersect in interesting ways over the course of the show’s two seasons. Much of the second season revolves around Earth having to make concessions to OPA because Mao’s machinations have left it in danger, or around Holden trying to ensure that OPA doesn’t gain control of what remains of the protomolecule.posted by the man of twists and turns at 9:58 AM on April 9, 2018 [2 favorites]
The fact remains, however, that much of what’s political about The Expanse‘s worldbuilding happens in the background of its main story. That story is often entertaining—though, again, I tend to find the show surprisingly bland considering that it looks so good and is working with such beloved SF hooks—but it’s clear that The Expanse fancies itself as something more sophisticated. And yet it repeatedly fails to take full advantage of the breadth and complexity of its setting, and makes some frustrating choices in how it slants its political storytelling.
So I posted that article to Twitter, and got into it w/ Ty Franck, who thinks the author misses the whole point.
As much as I respect Ty, I disagree with him on this. Post-factionalism May exist aboard the Rocinante, but so what?
Why should those who have lived with the boot of occupation on their backs be expected to sign up for choruses of “Kumbaya, we’re all human now.”
Why should the belters be expected to “give up their factions”. Why should they look for a great, dense-boned savior? Like Naomi said about the OPA conclave, Fred and Holden were just two more inners discussing the fate of the Belt.
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 7:30 AM on April 10, 2018
As much as I respect Ty, I disagree with him on this. Post-factionalism May exist aboard the Rocinante, but so what?
Why should those who have lived with the boot of occupation on their backs be expected to sign up for choruses of “Kumbaya, we’re all human now.”
Why should the belters be expected to “give up their factions”. Why should they look for a great, dense-boned savior? Like Naomi said about the OPA conclave, Fred and Holden were just two more inners discussing the fate of the Belt.
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 7:30 AM on April 10, 2018
I don’t know so much about Nussbaum having missed the mark so much as that she and I are clearly watching two very different shows, and I’m not sure why. I find Anderson Dawes absolutely compelling, far from “slimy at every turn.” Maybe it’s because I side with the belt but I find sympathetic belters everywhere. Even ones not wearing a paladin suit. They aren’t less relatable, but more, with their feelings of vengeance and anger.
Also, the series and books make very clear that Holden is no hero, but rather a fuck-up who thinks he’s a hero and is Trying To Be A Hero and it gets them into trouble more often than not.
posted by corb at 8:35 AM on April 10, 2018 [3 favorites]
Also, the series and books make very clear that Holden is no hero, but rather a fuck-up who thinks he’s a hero and is Trying To Be A Hero and it gets them into trouble more often than not.
posted by corb at 8:35 AM on April 10, 2018 [3 favorites]
I agree, corb, the show's Dawes is one of the most compelling characters. He's decentered, of course. It's been long enough now that I do not recall if he was more prominent in the books, but my impression is that the show has recognized what they have in Jared Harris' performance and have been working toward maintaining that opportunity.
I am currently enjoying his Capt. Crozier in The Terror, which absolutely feels like a science fuction show, and I urge you all to avail yourselves of it.
posted by mwhybark at 12:33 PM on April 10, 2018 [5 favorites]
I am currently enjoying his Capt. Crozier in The Terror, which absolutely feels like a science fuction show, and I urge you all to avail yourselves of it.
posted by mwhybark at 12:33 PM on April 10, 2018 [5 favorites]
Dawes is really interesting, and I find his accent fascinating. It's an amazing mash up of West Indian/East End/South African that sounds bizarre but also completely plausible for someone born and raised in the belt. This interview with the accent coach they used when designing the sound of Belta is really interesting.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 12:51 PM on April 10, 2018 [5 favorites]
posted by EndsOfInvention at 12:51 PM on April 10, 2018 [5 favorites]
Having read the Nussbaum piece now, it's clearly show-only in focus but iirc the books do present the OPA and its' leaders in an unflattering light, and in ways that do echo her analysis with respect to the loooong heritage of anti-labor propaganda. I sort of read it as a throwback to in-genre traditions of Heinlein libertarianism and ignored it, in part because of the metatextual aspects of Holden the Fuckup as protagonist. He's not the Competent Engineer, he just thinks he is. It hadn't really occured to me that Team Corey were slanting the text in such a way as to throw collective resistance under the bus, but PBZM's exchange on Twitter lends credence to the view. OTOH authorial intent counts for nothing.
(Apologies for gettin' over-booky here if that's the case, I don't think I'm getting specific enough to be problematic)
posted by mwhybark at 2:01 PM on April 10, 2018 [3 favorites]
(Apologies for gettin' over-booky here if that's the case, I don't think I'm getting specific enough to be problematic)
posted by mwhybark at 2:01 PM on April 10, 2018 [3 favorites]
I can see how, past the first season, one could get the sense that show Holden thinks of himself as a hero or more competent than he really is or whatever despite early episodes showing how his self image is far from that.
Book Holden, though?
posted by wierdo at 2:54 PM on April 10, 2018
Book Holden, though?
posted by wierdo at 2:54 PM on April 10, 2018
to me at least both Holdens appear to be written to be expressive of privilege, and book Holden is written to be more privileged than show Holden. He may be wracked by self-doubt and recognize that his choices hurt people, but give him a problem or let him perceive an injustice and he's on a white horse charging at it full speed ahead. I have interpreted this as a psychologically complex and metatextually playful way of writing about and critiquing privilege, and the genre, while still having a Big Dumb Action Hero. Perhaps I am being overgenerous.
posted by mwhybark at 3:00 PM on April 10, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by mwhybark at 3:00 PM on April 10, 2018 [1 favorite]
I did a thing for people who want to get all booky
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 3:49 PM on April 10, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 3:49 PM on April 10, 2018 [2 favorites]
The scene of trying to lure the protoguy out into space using the reactor cracked me up because it reminded me so much of myself, trying to lure my cat in for the night using her favorite treats. I did feel awful when protoguy was burnt up, though, because by then I was thoroughly associating him with my adorable little Katya.
Basically, the internalization of the idea behind "the churn" seems more prevalent to people of the Expanse universe than to ours.
I think that Amos in particular clings to the nihilism of "the churn" for the same reason he clings to Naomi. He's scared that he's going to fuck up. He wants fate and his friends to make his decisions for him because he's scared that if decisions are left up to him, he'll make the wrong ones. And he further soothes himself that he's just a bit of salt in the ocean being swept along by the currents of life, because if/when he inevitably does make the wrong choices, he needs to believe that it doesn't matter anyway. I think that it's part learned helplessness and part straight up fear.
The truth is that Amos must have shown quite a bit of autonomy, because if he hadn't, he'd presumably still be stuck in Baltimore waiting for a vocation slot like Niko (at best), rather than crisscrossing the universe as a skilled mechanic on the Roci. But Amos would rather believe in fate or his friends than he would in his own autonomy. So he denies the role he played in shaping his own life.
I don't think nihilism is uncommon in the real world. And just like in The Expanse, a certain amount of resigned nihilism in the real world is just being realistic. But I think that for Amos in particular, nihilism and fatalism are also ways of undermining his own power and autonomy -- which he needs to do because he apparently scares himself. I think in his head, the idea of him running wild and doing whatever he wants is a nightmare scenario. Even though technically, that's what he's been doing the whole time.
I don't think that's an unusual dilemma in the real world, either. In my experience, lots of men who have been mistreated by men are weird in that way. Men scare them and so when they become men, they scare themselves.
posted by rue72 at 6:56 PM on September 1, 2018 [2 favorites]
Basically, the internalization of the idea behind "the churn" seems more prevalent to people of the Expanse universe than to ours.
I think that Amos in particular clings to the nihilism of "the churn" for the same reason he clings to Naomi. He's scared that he's going to fuck up. He wants fate and his friends to make his decisions for him because he's scared that if decisions are left up to him, he'll make the wrong ones. And he further soothes himself that he's just a bit of salt in the ocean being swept along by the currents of life, because if/when he inevitably does make the wrong choices, he needs to believe that it doesn't matter anyway. I think that it's part learned helplessness and part straight up fear.
The truth is that Amos must have shown quite a bit of autonomy, because if he hadn't, he'd presumably still be stuck in Baltimore waiting for a vocation slot like Niko (at best), rather than crisscrossing the universe as a skilled mechanic on the Roci. But Amos would rather believe in fate or his friends than he would in his own autonomy. So he denies the role he played in shaping his own life.
I don't think nihilism is uncommon in the real world. And just like in The Expanse, a certain amount of resigned nihilism in the real world is just being realistic. But I think that for Amos in particular, nihilism and fatalism are also ways of undermining his own power and autonomy -- which he needs to do because he apparently scares himself. I think in his head, the idea of him running wild and doing whatever he wants is a nightmare scenario. Even though technically, that's what he's been doing the whole time.
I don't think that's an unusual dilemma in the real world, either. In my experience, lots of men who have been mistreated by men are weird in that way. Men scare them and so when they become men, they scare themselves.
posted by rue72 at 6:56 PM on September 1, 2018 [2 favorites]
Dawes is really interesting, and I find his accent fascinating.
For some reason, our household refers to him as 'the South African arms dealer.' He strikes me as slippery, totally self-interested, and fine with watching the world burn if it advances his interests. There's politics there, but it's the politics of the bones you were born with, and who you can get on your side. Marriages of convenience getting complicated and bloody.
posted by kaibutsu at 9:12 AM on April 9, 2021
For some reason, our household refers to him as 'the South African arms dealer.' He strikes me as slippery, totally self-interested, and fine with watching the world burn if it advances his interests. There's politics there, but it's the politics of the bones you were born with, and who you can get on your side. Marriages of convenience getting complicated and bloody.
posted by kaibutsu at 9:12 AM on April 9, 2021
Dawes is so great! Weaselly, fine, sure, but convincing as someone who is good at convincing others. This show does an unusually great job with the -- sorry, there's no better way to say it -- Slytherin characters. Dawes, Avasarala, and Errinwright are wildly different people with different goals whose defining traits are their cunning, ruthlessness, and righteousness. (For contrast, the worst show ever for power-hungry characters was House of Cards, where everyone was very power-hungry but not a single character ever did anything with it.)
posted by grandiloquiet at 9:06 PM on March 4, 2022
posted by grandiloquiet at 9:06 PM on March 4, 2022
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Now you can has a sad too.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 6:59 PM on April 20, 2017 [7 favorites]