Ted Lasso: Signs
April 11, 2023 10:41 PM - Season 3, Episode 5 - Subscribe
Richmond continues its losing streak. Two people score. Three people stomp off and leave. One person softens in their previously icy facade. There's a lot of pee and poop references. Honestly, the episode is pretty shitty (literally).
I was hoping someone else would review this since I was getting home late, but this is straight up the first episode of this show I've disliked because I'm so depressed now.
* That John guy Rebecca briefly dated is now engaged and "shite in nining armor" comes out of the mouth of his fiancee. I FEEL SO FUCKING BAD FOR HER THAT THAT TURNED OUT TO BE SOME RANDO BORING GUY SHE BARELY DATED. (This is gonna be like my friend who didn't like a dude until he got married, then for YEARS was all, "should I have dated him?") Also, presumably Rebecca is officially infertile.
* Richmond is on a losing streak, the coaches are coming off as dumb idiots who can't figure out anything. I don't even know anything on sports, but they sound terrible.
* Zava does a flake and bail to retire (without telling the team, or anyone except video on the Internet) to tend to his avocado farm.
On the good news side, of sorts:
* Henry bullies a kid, then apologizes with a rap.
* Shandy is fired....and then leaves a baby lamb on the conference table.
* Nathan has another date with Anastasia at his favorite restaurant (ugh), which goes terribly and she literally stomps off...but this actually makes Jade sort of like him better. I don't know what to make of this.
* Jack and Keeley shag.
* Ted rips up his already-ripped BELIEVE sign and gives an inspirational speech about how it's more than a piece of paper.
I thought the Shandy plot was going to be about Shandy improving, but nope, she's just a dumb arsehole. Lovely.
I don't know what to make of Jade softening...I mean, better than her stony dead face, but I dunno.
I like Jack, she's very audacious, but shagging the boss again...
For all that hype about Zava, he just...walks out and leaves and that's it?! I was expecting him to like, immediately have gone to Man City or some shit.
Quotes:
"Man City. I can't believe our white whale has the same name as the strip club where I danced at in college." -Beard, keeping it weird.
Diamond Dogs on how to solve Henry's bullying:
Beard: fly over there and kick the kid's ass by 12:30
Roy: ignore them, then sneak into their house at 4 a.m. and beat them up with a rope covered in red paint. It's Very Disturbing. Trent: drops his coffee cup in shock.
Ted: "I may just hold off on anything like that."
Higgins' house is "a house full of soaking wet toilet seats."
Later: "115 days, no pee drops on the khakis." "Proud of you."
"Jamie is so right. It's as if he were Zava."
"I'm definitely going to look in those drawers."
Shandy lets a lamb in to poop on the conference room table.
"It's a gentle reminder to cancel her security badge."
"And here is a giant bag of shit."
"Now it smells like someone took a shit into a pumpkin spice latte."
"I went to the most prestigious boarding school in Denmark. We chugged warm vodka for breakfast."
"Wow, it takes a lot to surprise me, and you just did."
Also: "You actually dated a birthday clown?" "For three wacky weeks."
"I let him know I was sorry by doing an apology rap in front of the entire class."
I was hoping someone else would review this since I was getting home late, but this is straight up the first episode of this show I've disliked because I'm so depressed now.
* That John guy Rebecca briefly dated is now engaged and "shite in nining armor" comes out of the mouth of his fiancee. I FEEL SO FUCKING BAD FOR HER THAT THAT TURNED OUT TO BE SOME RANDO BORING GUY SHE BARELY DATED. (This is gonna be like my friend who didn't like a dude until he got married, then for YEARS was all, "should I have dated him?") Also, presumably Rebecca is officially infertile.
* Richmond is on a losing streak, the coaches are coming off as dumb idiots who can't figure out anything. I don't even know anything on sports, but they sound terrible.
* Zava does a flake and bail to retire (without telling the team, or anyone except video on the Internet) to tend to his avocado farm.
On the good news side, of sorts:
* Henry bullies a kid, then apologizes with a rap.
* Shandy is fired....and then leaves a baby lamb on the conference table.
* Nathan has another date with Anastasia at his favorite restaurant (ugh), which goes terribly and she literally stomps off...but this actually makes Jade sort of like him better. I don't know what to make of this.
* Jack and Keeley shag.
* Ted rips up his already-ripped BELIEVE sign and gives an inspirational speech about how it's more than a piece of paper.
I thought the Shandy plot was going to be about Shandy improving, but nope, she's just a dumb arsehole. Lovely.
I don't know what to make of Jade softening...I mean, better than her stony dead face, but I dunno.
I like Jack, she's very audacious, but shagging the boss again...
For all that hype about Zava, he just...walks out and leaves and that's it?! I was expecting him to like, immediately have gone to Man City or some shit.
Quotes:
"Man City. I can't believe our white whale has the same name as the strip club where I danced at in college." -Beard, keeping it weird.
Diamond Dogs on how to solve Henry's bullying:
Beard: fly over there and kick the kid's ass by 12:30
Roy: ignore them, then sneak into their house at 4 a.m. and beat them up with a rope covered in red paint. It's Very Disturbing. Trent: drops his coffee cup in shock.
Ted: "I may just hold off on anything like that."
Higgins' house is "a house full of soaking wet toilet seats."
Later: "115 days, no pee drops on the khakis." "Proud of you."
"Jamie is so right. It's as if he were Zava."
"I'm definitely going to look in those drawers."
Shandy lets a lamb in to poop on the conference room table.
"It's a gentle reminder to cancel her security badge."
"And here is a giant bag of shit."
"Now it smells like someone took a shit into a pumpkin spice latte."
"I went to the most prestigious boarding school in Denmark. We chugged warm vodka for breakfast."
"Wow, it takes a lot to surprise me, and you just did."
Also: "You actually dated a birthday clown?" "For three wacky weeks."
"I let him know I was sorry by doing an apology rap in front of the entire class."
The theme for this season appears to be that Anger never gets anything positive done, and I'm not sure how to feel about that.
posted by Faintdreams at 4:15 AM on April 12, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by Faintdreams at 4:15 AM on April 12, 2023 [2 favorites]
We learnt a lot about Zava and how he - supposedly - worships his wife.
Then the suddenly retires.
I think we're gonna find out either his wife is sick, or he got caught cheating and retiring is him trying to make ammends.
posted by Faintdreams at 4:17 AM on April 12, 2023 [1 favorite]
Then the suddenly retires.
I think we're gonna find out either his wife is sick, or he got caught cheating and retiring is him trying to make ammends.
posted by Faintdreams at 4:17 AM on April 12, 2023 [1 favorite]
Finally I suspect that the news Rebecca got from the consultant wasn't that she's completely infertile but that due to her current age it is highly unlikely she could get and successfully have a baby at this point in her life.
Not impossible.
Unlikely.
I believe the psychic specifically said she would 'you will have a family' and not 'have a baby'. This makes me think something terrible is going to happen to Sassy because she is godparent to Sassy's daughter...
posted by Faintdreams at 4:21 AM on April 12, 2023 [6 favorites]
Not impossible.
Unlikely.
I believe the psychic specifically said she would 'you will have a family' and not 'have a baby'. This makes me think something terrible is going to happen to Sassy because she is godparent to Sassy's daughter...
posted by Faintdreams at 4:21 AM on April 12, 2023 [6 favorites]
Lots of insufficiently motivated stuff in this episode, or plot points that didn't have enough time to breathe and develop. If it was just Zava retiring, fine, he's already been shown to be a wild card. But it was everything. Shandy tipping very quickly all the way from "has some great ideas and occasional very bad judgment" to "complete nightmare" is the most boring way that could've played out, to me.
The theme for this season appears to be that Anger never gets anything positive done, and I'm not sure how to feel about that.
It's interesting that Ted's initial strategy for addressing the "believe" sign getting ripped up is to just ignore it and pretend it never happened, and Roy and Beard's initial strategy is to use it to make the team angry and motivate them to play hard against West Ham, and both those strategies didn't work. Ted also seemed conflicted that his advice - and his father's advice - was that if you're mad, you should count to ten, and then do it again if you're still mad.
I think one theme that's developing is that continually repressing your anger, as if you could take all the conflict and just swallow it down so that neither you nor anyone else actually has to deal with it, is unsustainable and ultimately just as unproductive as letting your anger control your actions.
posted by Jeanne at 4:45 AM on April 12, 2023 [8 favorites]
The theme for this season appears to be that Anger never gets anything positive done, and I'm not sure how to feel about that.
It's interesting that Ted's initial strategy for addressing the "believe" sign getting ripped up is to just ignore it and pretend it never happened, and Roy and Beard's initial strategy is to use it to make the team angry and motivate them to play hard against West Ham, and both those strategies didn't work. Ted also seemed conflicted that his advice - and his father's advice - was that if you're mad, you should count to ten, and then do it again if you're still mad.
I think one theme that's developing is that continually repressing your anger, as if you could take all the conflict and just swallow it down so that neither you nor anyone else actually has to deal with it, is unsustainable and ultimately just as unproductive as letting your anger control your actions.
posted by Jeanne at 4:45 AM on April 12, 2023 [8 favorites]
I’m not sure where the Zava thing is going, but the comment by Roy about “if the team is going to stand around all day and watch him, they should buy tickets” stood out to me. Richmond has become the Zava show. He’s a very potent weapon on the field but after an initial burst of wins, nothing works anymore. Now he’s gone. To me, this sets up one of two possibilities: Ted rallies the team and salvages that season, or his tenure leading Richmond is going to end. Higgins even broached the latter to Rebecca. One wildcard is Jamie. He’s been in Zava’s shadow this whole time and has been struggling to break out. Does he become the team’s focal point and leader, and start willing Richmond to some wins?
This episode had a boot camp type of arc as I saw it. In boot camp, they break you down, but once you’ve been humbled, they build you back up into something stronger. There were a lot of low points in this episode. Richmond’s winless streak. Henry becoming a bully. Keely having to fire a friend. Nate being dropped by his date. Rebecca (presumably) being told she’s infertile. Zava ghosting the team. But, aside from Rebecca, everyone started to see a promise of better days.
There’s also a big element this week of the importance of being real. Shandy reveals her true self when Keely fires her. Zava shows he doesn’t even feel like he needs to tell his teammates face to face that he’s done. Nate finally figures out that people like Nate, not the bigshot he‘s been trying to show everyone that he’s become. It doesn’t matter that he’s the manager of West Ham, that he’s showing up with an internationally known model. He finds himself defending the restaurant, not just the food but the place’s importance in his life. And now, for a brief moment, he’s happy, he’s no longer a fish out of water. I guess a big theme this week is “stop pretending.” (Unless we’re talking about Roy. Because you have to hope that ain’t the real Roy, which I don’t think it is…)
On to next week, where we see if the cute little monkeys can avoid the hyenas.
posted by azpenguin at 5:17 AM on April 12, 2023 [7 favorites]
This episode had a boot camp type of arc as I saw it. In boot camp, they break you down, but once you’ve been humbled, they build you back up into something stronger. There were a lot of low points in this episode. Richmond’s winless streak. Henry becoming a bully. Keely having to fire a friend. Nate being dropped by his date. Rebecca (presumably) being told she’s infertile. Zava ghosting the team. But, aside from Rebecca, everyone started to see a promise of better days.
There’s also a big element this week of the importance of being real. Shandy reveals her true self when Keely fires her. Zava shows he doesn’t even feel like he needs to tell his teammates face to face that he’s done. Nate finally figures out that people like Nate, not the bigshot he‘s been trying to show everyone that he’s become. It doesn’t matter that he’s the manager of West Ham, that he’s showing up with an internationally known model. He finds himself defending the restaurant, not just the food but the place’s importance in his life. And now, for a brief moment, he’s happy, he’s no longer a fish out of water. I guess a big theme this week is “stop pretending.” (Unless we’re talking about Roy. Because you have to hope that ain’t the real Roy, which I don’t think it is…)
On to next week, where we see if the cute little monkeys can avoid the hyenas.
posted by azpenguin at 5:17 AM on April 12, 2023 [7 favorites]
Will be interesting to see how they contrast how open Keeley is about hooking up with Jack versus Colin staying closeted.
Jodi Balfour’s accent I think is trying to be so southern English it’s gone a bit Australian!
posted by ellieBOA at 6:30 AM on April 12, 2023 [3 favorites]
Jodi Balfour’s accent I think is trying to be so southern English it’s gone a bit Australian!
posted by ellieBOA at 6:30 AM on April 12, 2023 [3 favorites]
I don't know how to feel about Jack and Keely hooking up with warm vodka in a pumpkin spice-over-poop scented room. It doesn't seem auspicious? Or am I just hung up on Keely and Roy?
Poor Rebecca. Having kids isn't everything, but having the choice taken away from you or delayed until it's too late is awful.
I'm interested in what people think triggered Ted's panic attack - I thought it was starting before Henry called? I'm glad he's reconsidering his dad's advice about anger. His dad didn't survive and I don't think it's too far off-base to suggest that suppressing anger can lead to depression.
posted by harriet vane at 6:50 AM on April 12, 2023 [1 favorite]
Poor Rebecca. Having kids isn't everything, but having the choice taken away from you or delayed until it's too late is awful.
I'm interested in what people think triggered Ted's panic attack - I thought it was starting before Henry called? I'm glad he's reconsidering his dad's advice about anger. His dad didn't survive and I don't think it's too far off-base to suggest that suppressing anger can lead to depression.
posted by harriet vane at 6:50 AM on April 12, 2023 [1 favorite]
this show is bad now and it makes me sad. like sad in that "wait, was it ever good in the first place? did this show only succeed because it came out when everyone in the world was scared and lonely?" way. at this point i'm just watching to see how it finishes up.
i've decided, from my seat up on high, that the mortal sin of this show is that ted lasso never bothers to understand soccer. his amateurism such an insult to the players out there working their asses off that the whole scene where he tried to give an inspirational jeff winger speech rang untrue -- like, why would these professional football players listen to that drip for so much as five seconds?
the "lol ted doesn't know what football is" plot line seemed to work less bad for me last season because of the "ted lasso is made irrelevant when the team gets roy kent as a real coach and dr. sharon fieldstone as a real sports psychologist" story it was embedded in, but now that they've established that the team doesn't need ted anymore it's beyond frustrating to see him shambling on as an alleged coach / actual mascot.
if the first few episodes had featured ted saying and doing the sorts of thing that roy kent and beard say and do, like, actually for reals coaching instead of taking the team into the sewers for some reason, like, knowing what a formation is and having intelligent things to say about what will work, like, being the guy who talks jamie into 4:00 am workouts, i'd be much more on-board with the plot arc as a whole. but at this point i can't even get into rebecca building up to fire ted when it's so clear he should have been fired forever ago.
in my headcanon this season starts with ted back in the united states and then largely focuses on roy, jamie, and beard leading the team to middling success and a win over man city. i guess i'd keep the plotline where keeley and my favorite astronaut slash political figure hook up, but in the back of my head i'd still be like "ellen! you can do so much better!"
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 7:01 AM on April 12, 2023 [9 favorites]
i've decided, from my seat up on high, that the mortal sin of this show is that ted lasso never bothers to understand soccer. his amateurism such an insult to the players out there working their asses off that the whole scene where he tried to give an inspirational jeff winger speech rang untrue -- like, why would these professional football players listen to that drip for so much as five seconds?
the "lol ted doesn't know what football is" plot line seemed to work less bad for me last season because of the "ted lasso is made irrelevant when the team gets roy kent as a real coach and dr. sharon fieldstone as a real sports psychologist" story it was embedded in, but now that they've established that the team doesn't need ted anymore it's beyond frustrating to see him shambling on as an alleged coach / actual mascot.
if the first few episodes had featured ted saying and doing the sorts of thing that roy kent and beard say and do, like, actually for reals coaching instead of taking the team into the sewers for some reason, like, knowing what a formation is and having intelligent things to say about what will work, like, being the guy who talks jamie into 4:00 am workouts, i'd be much more on-board with the plot arc as a whole. but at this point i can't even get into rebecca building up to fire ted when it's so clear he should have been fired forever ago.
in my headcanon this season starts with ted back in the united states and then largely focuses on roy, jamie, and beard leading the team to middling success and a win over man city. i guess i'd keep the plotline where keeley and my favorite astronaut slash political figure hook up, but in the back of my head i'd still be like "ellen! you can do so much better!"
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 7:01 AM on April 12, 2023 [9 favorites]
I'm interested in what people think triggered Ted's panic attack - I thought it was starting before Henry called?
I think the loss and the bullying incident both triggered feelings of "I have let my team down and my family down, I have not been there for them in the way that I needed to be, Henry would not have bullied another kid and Zava would not have left without warning if I had been teaching them the lessons that they need to learn." And then - he was looking at the Pyramid of Success just before the panic attack started, which makes sense to me; being reminded of my own standards and ideals that I'm not living up to is one of those things that will very reliably make me have a panic attack.
(A dozen people have called this before me, but: Ted's definitely going back to Kansas at the end of the season.)
posted by Jeanne at 7:15 AM on April 12, 2023 [3 favorites]
I think the loss and the bullying incident both triggered feelings of "I have let my team down and my family down, I have not been there for them in the way that I needed to be, Henry would not have bullied another kid and Zava would not have left without warning if I had been teaching them the lessons that they need to learn." And then - he was looking at the Pyramid of Success just before the panic attack started, which makes sense to me; being reminded of my own standards and ideals that I'm not living up to is one of those things that will very reliably make me have a panic attack.
(A dozen people have called this before me, but: Ted's definitely going back to Kansas at the end of the season.)
posted by Jeanne at 7:15 AM on April 12, 2023 [3 favorites]
i've decided, from my seat up on high, that the mortal sin of this show is that ted lasso never bothers to understand soccer
The show was never about soccer…
posted by azpenguin at 7:17 AM on April 12, 2023 [10 favorites]
The show was never about soccer…
posted by azpenguin at 7:17 AM on April 12, 2023 [10 favorites]
I initially thought the ep was OK, minus Nate. But really, this episode illustrated the show's flaws.
I'll save Rebecca for last.
But 1st, it came across to me that Nate went to the restaurant to show off Famous Date to Jade. Then famous date abandoned him, and suddenly Jade's dining with him. As Brits say, piss off. Ugh.
And has there ever been any real sign that Keeley is the least bit sexually attracted to women? All I remember is her telling women, oh you look gorgeous.
Also, I don't think Keely is that competent a business woman overall. Her problems go beyond hiring one crazy friend.
In the same way that we don't see Ted actually do any technical coaching (I 100% feel that frustration), we don't see Keeley conducting business, even interacting with her other staff.
Yes, blah blah, workplace shows are about characters, not work. But when it comes to showing the *work* part, it is an understatement the show certainly glosses over A LOT.
So, they throw in one-dimensional characters like Zava or Shandy to make simplistic points about main characters' "growth" at work.
Btw I thought when Zava didn't show up, he was doing it to inspire the others to pick up the slack. I like my version better.
Now, our beloved Rebecca. I actually don't mind the little experiment in whether she believes all the psychic signs. And as for motherhood, I've been joking how she could become a stepmom. Sure enough, this episode had one of those "Hmm" moments, in Ted and Rebecca's hallway encounter. (Are they so in tune, that she's talking about bullies, and he's talking about psychics, without even knowing each others' preoccupations?)
But truthfully, I've never felt that kind of chemistry between them. It will be interesting to see what Rebecca was thinking in that last shot of her, sitting in her car.
posted by NorthernLite at 7:27 AM on April 12, 2023 [3 favorites]
I'll save Rebecca for last.
But 1st, it came across to me that Nate went to the restaurant to show off Famous Date to Jade. Then famous date abandoned him, and suddenly Jade's dining with him. As Brits say, piss off. Ugh.
And has there ever been any real sign that Keeley is the least bit sexually attracted to women? All I remember is her telling women, oh you look gorgeous.
Also, I don't think Keely is that competent a business woman overall. Her problems go beyond hiring one crazy friend.
In the same way that we don't see Ted actually do any technical coaching (I 100% feel that frustration), we don't see Keeley conducting business, even interacting with her other staff.
Yes, blah blah, workplace shows are about characters, not work. But when it comes to showing the *work* part, it is an understatement the show certainly glosses over A LOT.
So, they throw in one-dimensional characters like Zava or Shandy to make simplistic points about main characters' "growth" at work.
Btw I thought when Zava didn't show up, he was doing it to inspire the others to pick up the slack. I like my version better.
Now, our beloved Rebecca. I actually don't mind the little experiment in whether she believes all the psychic signs. And as for motherhood, I've been joking how she could become a stepmom. Sure enough, this episode had one of those "Hmm" moments, in Ted and Rebecca's hallway encounter. (Are they so in tune, that she's talking about bullies, and he's talking about psychics, without even knowing each others' preoccupations?)
But truthfully, I've never felt that kind of chemistry between them. It will be interesting to see what Rebecca was thinking in that last shot of her, sitting in her car.
posted by NorthernLite at 7:27 AM on April 12, 2023 [3 favorites]
> But 1st, it came across to me that Nate went to the restaurant to show off Famous Date to Jade. Then famous date abandoned him, and suddenly Jade's dining with him. As Brits say, piss off. Ugh.
jade could do so much better. so much. i was looking forward to her "lol no i don't like you either" reaction after anastasia left, and i felt low-key sick at my stomach to see her actually talking with nate like he's a person who deserves her time.
> Yes, blah blah, workplace shows are about characters, not work. But when it comes to showing the *work* part, it is an understatement the show certainly glosses over A LOT.
yeah, like, in workplace shows you have to have some amount of the actual work present and coherently presented in order for the plot/characters to seem grounded. having ted still nominally in place as the coach is like, lemme think, what's my favorite workplace show, it's like if andy dick's character on newsradio had dave foley's character's job, and if everyone pretended him having that job were reasonable.
the show's not about soccer, but even so ted's refusal to learn how to do his job is an insult to the players and should be treated as such. a ted who doesn't bother to learn soccer is nice but not good. hell, i'd go so far as to say he's nice but not kind even.
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 8:08 AM on April 12, 2023 [4 favorites]
jade could do so much better. so much. i was looking forward to her "lol no i don't like you either" reaction after anastasia left, and i felt low-key sick at my stomach to see her actually talking with nate like he's a person who deserves her time.
> Yes, blah blah, workplace shows are about characters, not work. But when it comes to showing the *work* part, it is an understatement the show certainly glosses over A LOT.
yeah, like, in workplace shows you have to have some amount of the actual work present and coherently presented in order for the plot/characters to seem grounded. having ted still nominally in place as the coach is like, lemme think, what's my favorite workplace show, it's like if andy dick's character on newsradio had dave foley's character's job, and if everyone pretended him having that job were reasonable.
the show's not about soccer, but even so ted's refusal to learn how to do his job is an insult to the players and should be treated as such. a ted who doesn't bother to learn soccer is nice but not good. hell, i'd go so far as to say he's nice but not kind even.
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 8:08 AM on April 12, 2023 [4 favorites]
Faintdreams: This makes me think something terrible is going to happen to Sassy
Not going to happen - this show's framework can't support killing a "real" person. They can kill off-screen assumptions (Rebecca's father) but not an actual character.
NorthernLite: And has there ever been any real sign that Keeley is the least bit sexually attracted to women?
YES THERE HAS.
From "Make Rebecca Great Again," Keeley to Rebecca:
"But, hey, we're both single. I think you are super hot. If I'm gonna dip my toe back into the lady pool, I can't think of a finer body of water to do it with than you." Not to mention numerous other times she's been breathless for Rebecca ("Let's invade France" etc.).
The minute we met Jack (which was the minute Keeley laid eyes on Jack for the first time), I was like, this is some wild sexual chemistry going on. I didn't want to make predictions because people in fandom get a lot of "you just want everyone to be gay" dismissiveness, but holy shit I noticed it immediately.
(I still hold out hope for Keeley and Roy to get back together, simply because I thought they were great for each other, but this you could see coming a mile off.)
posted by tzikeh at 8:28 AM on April 12, 2023 [34 favorites]
Not going to happen - this show's framework can't support killing a "real" person. They can kill off-screen assumptions (Rebecca's father) but not an actual character.
NorthernLite: And has there ever been any real sign that Keeley is the least bit sexually attracted to women?
YES THERE HAS.
From "Make Rebecca Great Again," Keeley to Rebecca:
"But, hey, we're both single. I think you are super hot. If I'm gonna dip my toe back into the lady pool, I can't think of a finer body of water to do it with than you." Not to mention numerous other times she's been breathless for Rebecca ("Let's invade France" etc.).
The minute we met Jack (which was the minute Keeley laid eyes on Jack for the first time), I was like, this is some wild sexual chemistry going on. I didn't want to make predictions because people in fandom get a lot of "you just want everyone to be gay" dismissiveness, but holy shit I noticed it immediately.
(I still hold out hope for Keeley and Roy to get back together, simply because I thought they were great for each other, but this you could see coming a mile off.)
posted by tzikeh at 8:28 AM on April 12, 2023 [34 favorites]
I am extremely disappointed that the show is treating the psychic as anything beyond an unlicensed therapist at best and a charlatan at worst. The green matchbook was one thing (Rebecca evidently collects matchbooks, her mother has been in her kitchen frequently and talks to the psychic about Rebecca a lot, and there are only so many colors in the rainbow), but the "shite in nining armor" prediction puts this fairly squarely into "psychics are real" territory, which is just bullshit. It completely undercuts Rebecca's initial, absolutely correct condemnation of the psychic. What's next, the team turns the season around after hiring an astrologer?
posted by jedicus at 8:31 AM on April 12, 2023 [24 favorites]
posted by jedicus at 8:31 AM on April 12, 2023 [24 favorites]
jedicus: but the "shite in nining armor" prediction puts this fairly squarely into "psychics are real" territory, which is just bullshit.
HARD SAME.
posted by tzikeh at 8:34 AM on April 12, 2023 [5 favorites]
HARD SAME.
posted by tzikeh at 8:34 AM on April 12, 2023 [5 favorites]
And has there ever been any real sign that Keeley is the least bit sexually attracted to women?
YES THERE HAS.
And she was in a relationship with a man for most of the previous episodes, bisexual invisibility is real!
posted by ellieBOA at 8:39 AM on April 12, 2023 [7 favorites]
YES THERE HAS.
And she was in a relationship with a man for most of the previous episodes, bisexual invisibility is real!
posted by ellieBOA at 8:39 AM on April 12, 2023 [7 favorites]
Tzikeh, ah that slipped by me that she's ever referenced "the lady pool." Because Keeley isn't someone who would've kept that aspect quiet. And what was happening with her and Jack was obvious.
posted by NorthernLite at 9:25 AM on April 12, 2023
posted by NorthernLite at 9:25 AM on April 12, 2023
I think we're gonna find out either his wife is sick, or he got caught cheating and retiring is him trying to make ammends.
I actually thought his sudden bail was because he'd suddenly gotten diagnosed with an illness or something, or his wife had. Frankly, that would have made more sense than "I'm just gonna avocado farm," which was kind of a slap in the face to everyone. (Or what I would have expected, bailing to Man City.)
Shandy tipping very quickly all the way from "has some great ideas and occasional very bad judgment" to "complete nightmare" is the most boring way that could've played out, to me.
Same. I expected better from the show.
One wildcard is Jamie. He’s been in Zava’s shadow this whole time and has been struggling to break out. Does he become the team’s focal point and leader, and start willing Richmond to some wins?
Yes.
ted lasso never bothers to understand soccer
I continue to be baffled by this as well. It sounds like Beard learned soccer, and Ted hired Nate/Roy for the actual technical aspects of how to play the game, but Ted's there solely for the psychological headgames stuff. I guess, as a non-sports person.
it's like if andy dick's character on newsradio had dave foley's character's job, and if everyone pretended him having that job were reasonable.
They actually did this on Eureka with Fargo in the last season--after some time travel, the guy known for "inappropriately pushed button" is now running the company. They made it work, from what I recall.
Keeley seems to know her stuff on PR'ing, but being a leader/manager of people is definitely a learning curve thing. Especially if you didn't get to pick what people you hire, and the one person you hired to be nice turns out to be a fucking destructive bonehead who won't learn not to call people at 4 a.m.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:49 AM on April 12, 2023 [3 favorites]
I actually thought his sudden bail was because he'd suddenly gotten diagnosed with an illness or something, or his wife had. Frankly, that would have made more sense than "I'm just gonna avocado farm," which was kind of a slap in the face to everyone. (Or what I would have expected, bailing to Man City.)
Shandy tipping very quickly all the way from "has some great ideas and occasional very bad judgment" to "complete nightmare" is the most boring way that could've played out, to me.
Same. I expected better from the show.
One wildcard is Jamie. He’s been in Zava’s shadow this whole time and has been struggling to break out. Does he become the team’s focal point and leader, and start willing Richmond to some wins?
Yes.
ted lasso never bothers to understand soccer
I continue to be baffled by this as well. It sounds like Beard learned soccer, and Ted hired Nate/Roy for the actual technical aspects of how to play the game, but Ted's there solely for the psychological headgames stuff. I guess, as a non-sports person.
it's like if andy dick's character on newsradio had dave foley's character's job, and if everyone pretended him having that job were reasonable.
They actually did this on Eureka with Fargo in the last season--after some time travel, the guy known for "inappropriately pushed button" is now running the company. They made it work, from what I recall.
Keeley seems to know her stuff on PR'ing, but being a leader/manager of people is definitely a learning curve thing. Especially if you didn't get to pick what people you hire, and the one person you hired to be nice turns out to be a fucking destructive bonehead who won't learn not to call people at 4 a.m.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:49 AM on April 12, 2023 [3 favorites]
I don't mind Keeley and Jack hooking up if it's just "we're having some fun." If they try to turn that in to a real relationship, I'm gonna be pissed/sad. (Yes, Keeley and Roy forever.) (Also I saw this coming a mile away.)
As for Ted, yes I too believe it's utterly ridiculous/baffling/anger-inducing that he *still* hasn't learned much about the game itself. It's just so stupid!
posted by BlahLaLa at 11:21 AM on April 12, 2023 [1 favorite]
As for Ted, yes I too believe it's utterly ridiculous/baffling/anger-inducing that he *still* hasn't learned much about the game itself. It's just so stupid!
posted by BlahLaLa at 11:21 AM on April 12, 2023 [1 favorite]
> (Yes, Keeley and Roy forever.)
i have roy/keeley on my "at least one person in this relationship can do significantly better" list (which to be clear the person is roy in this case but also maybe keeley as well).
and i dunno keeley/jamie makes narrative sense. "break up in first season, person who needs get shit together gets shit together, get back together final season" is a common long arc on this kind of show, and jamie's pretty solidly on a "i guess i'm gonna grow the fuck up" trajectory right now.
well and tbh "let's have the two chav stereotypes who grew the fuck up be a couple" seems like the kind of move this show would make. i would be pleasantly surprised though if jack/keeley (which i feel like a doofus for saying i 100% did not see coming) ends up being a thing.
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 11:50 AM on April 12, 2023
i have roy/keeley on my "at least one person in this relationship can do significantly better" list (which to be clear the person is roy in this case but also maybe keeley as well).
and i dunno keeley/jamie makes narrative sense. "break up in first season, person who needs get shit together gets shit together, get back together final season" is a common long arc on this kind of show, and jamie's pretty solidly on a "i guess i'm gonna grow the fuck up" trajectory right now.
well and tbh "let's have the two chav stereotypes who grew the fuck up be a couple" seems like the kind of move this show would make. i would be pleasantly surprised though if jack/keeley (which i feel like a doofus for saying i 100% did not see coming) ends up being a thing.
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 11:50 AM on April 12, 2023
I don't think I want Keeley to have three love interests to juggle, that's way too much.
posted by jenfullmoon at 12:20 PM on April 12, 2023
posted by jenfullmoon at 12:20 PM on April 12, 2023
This episode was just bad and I have to say it. Rushed plot points and a speech from Ted that is not earned given how checked out he’s been. Give me *some* sports training aside from locker talk and working out in the gym. They telegraphed the Keely Jack thing so hard it was being shoved on us but whyyy would she do this with her VC boss? Zava leaving after all that build up. I’ll stick to the show to see how it plays out but this ep was some major faith lost in the writers.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 12:44 PM on April 12, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by St. Peepsburg at 12:44 PM on April 12, 2023 [2 favorites]
Lol, a mere week after I said I’d be extremely disappointed if Nate gets Jade as a “reward” and, well…
Also, the psychic subplot is one of the worst things I’ve seen on TV recently.
posted by adrianhon at 2:21 PM on April 12, 2023 [5 favorites]
Also, the psychic subplot is one of the worst things I’ve seen on TV recently.
posted by adrianhon at 2:21 PM on April 12, 2023 [5 favorites]
> Lol, a mere week after I said I’d be extremely disappointed if Nate gets Jade as a “reward” and, well…
it's even worse than that. she's not a reward, she's a consolation prize. practically a participation trophy. total insult to the character, she could do so so much better, 0 out of 5 stars to that pairing.
like, the scene where they're on a date at her job (don't hit on people while they're working!! don't keep doing it over and over again after receiving negative responses! that's the worst, the literal worst, nate is the worst, total missing stair of a man) after anastasia nopes out? i can't remember a time when i've been watching a television show and have experienced quite so much of a mismatch between what i felt about a scene and what the music told me i was supposed to feel about the scene.
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 2:33 PM on April 12, 2023 [5 favorites]
it's even worse than that. she's not a reward, she's a consolation prize. practically a participation trophy. total insult to the character, she could do so so much better, 0 out of 5 stars to that pairing.
like, the scene where they're on a date at her job (don't hit on people while they're working!! don't keep doing it over and over again after receiving negative responses! that's the worst, the literal worst, nate is the worst, total missing stair of a man) after anastasia nopes out? i can't remember a time when i've been watching a television show and have experienced quite so much of a mismatch between what i felt about a scene and what the music told me i was supposed to feel about the scene.
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 2:33 PM on April 12, 2023 [5 favorites]
Oof, yeah. So a few episodes in, the longer running times just feel like they're making room for other shows rather than making more of the primary show. Like, Keely's whole storyline has nothing to do with Ted or Richmond or any of the things or other people or even themes that the show has been about for two seasons, it's like we just cut to this (really boring and unfunny) spin-off show throughout a Ted Lasso episode.
And for the first time, the show is putting story in front of character in ways that are pretty ham-fisted. Zava never felt like a real person at all, only this weird caricature who showed up to provide catalyst for Jamie's story arc and then was hastily tossed once his purpose for story was served. (Maybe he'll show back up, but why? We don't care about him, he's not funny, and he's not gonna motivate Jamie any more than he already has, so hopefully not.) Roy has nothing so far this season other than a few looks of 'oops maybe I shouldn't have broken up with Keely.' And why did they break up again? It mostly looks like they broke up so that the Keely character could go start her own business/spin-off, and not be directly tied to the Roy character and his show anymore.
Attempts to morph the show toward a post-Ted AFC Richmond version, and feel out a possible spin-off or two, have really compromised the original story they were telling, and themes they were exploring. And it's much less funny so far this season.
posted by LooseFilter at 2:41 PM on April 12, 2023 [2 favorites]
And for the first time, the show is putting story in front of character in ways that are pretty ham-fisted. Zava never felt like a real person at all, only this weird caricature who showed up to provide catalyst for Jamie's story arc and then was hastily tossed once his purpose for story was served. (Maybe he'll show back up, but why? We don't care about him, he's not funny, and he's not gonna motivate Jamie any more than he already has, so hopefully not.) Roy has nothing so far this season other than a few looks of 'oops maybe I shouldn't have broken up with Keely.' And why did they break up again? It mostly looks like they broke up so that the Keely character could go start her own business/spin-off, and not be directly tied to the Roy character and his show anymore.
Attempts to morph the show toward a post-Ted AFC Richmond version, and feel out a possible spin-off or two, have really compromised the original story they were telling, and themes they were exploring. And it's much less funny so far this season.
posted by LooseFilter at 2:41 PM on April 12, 2023 [2 favorites]
I found the part with Roy and the rope hilarious but then it occurred to me that the writers had not previously indicated that Roy was a genuine psychopath? so it hit kinda weird for me after the fact. Plus, now that you all mention it, I did notice some of the other writing oopsies.... why does this always happen after a couple seasons of a good show recently?
posted by some loser at 3:40 PM on April 12, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by some loser at 3:40 PM on April 12, 2023 [5 favorites]
This season has been rough (I thought the first episode back was bad) and this was awful. I don't recognise any of these characters. I think they are handling the queer stuff badly. Nate and the waitress just doesn't read like human people at all. The model dating Nate because presumably Rupert asked her to or paid her to has a super strong whiff of misogyny, which I've never associated with this show at all. Keeley doesn't seem to have her smarts anymore. Rebecca is all of a sudden sad she doesn't have a baby, when I've never thought she wanted one. (I think she was upset when Rupert married Bex and had a baby with her, but beyond that I didn't think she carried that around with her.) Ted's panic attacks seem to be used just to up the drama, even if the execution worked pretty well here. Roy and the bully story was not funny. And there's a lot of macho aggression in the team and their supporters that's never been there before and... has this show replaced its writers room entirely? Do they have a different showrunner? Did Bill Lawrence leave?
I think the first two seasons were great. It started showing some flab with the extended episodes last year but the heart was still there. This season all the episodes are 45-60 minutes and feel like an entirely different show.
Maybe the tone changed because the team was rudderless, except they were on the up until they lost to West Ham last week. And then they turned into aggressive assholes. I'm sure Ted's speech will have got them back on track, but I'm not sure if that will fix the season's other problems.
posted by crossoverman at 4:50 PM on April 12, 2023 [2 favorites]
I think the first two seasons were great. It started showing some flab with the extended episodes last year but the heart was still there. This season all the episodes are 45-60 minutes and feel like an entirely different show.
Maybe the tone changed because the team was rudderless, except they were on the up until they lost to West Ham last week. And then they turned into aggressive assholes. I'm sure Ted's speech will have got them back on track, but I'm not sure if that will fix the season's other problems.
posted by crossoverman at 4:50 PM on April 12, 2023 [2 favorites]
It was mentioned that Rebecca didn't have kids because Rupert said he didn't want to, and then apparently "changed his mind with the right person." Came up around the time Bex was pregnant, I think.
I don't know why the show is going for the psychic plot, but there's no point in bringing up this stuff if you don't follow through with it.
posted by jenfullmoon at 5:20 PM on April 12, 2023 [2 favorites]
I don't know why the show is going for the psychic plot, but there's no point in bringing up this stuff if you don't follow through with it.
posted by jenfullmoon at 5:20 PM on April 12, 2023 [2 favorites]
i'm willing to believe that all the other rambly stuff in here is the result of them having a tight arc that's three seasons of ordinary-length episodes long and they had trouble padding it out to eat up the new runtime.
everyone!
***update your takes***
this season of ted lasso got hobbit trilogied
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 5:45 PM on April 12, 2023 [3 favorites]
everyone!
***update your takes***
this season of ted lasso got hobbit trilogied
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 5:45 PM on April 12, 2023 [3 favorites]
but like sheesh if you gotta pad some episodes why not make the padding all about beard. dude makes any scene he's in interesting, even if he's just lurking in the background.
also he's in an abusive relationship which seems like something worth exploring. and his life is baseline about a hundred thousand times more exciting than anyone else on the show's, like, he's the only one on the show,mexcept the players, actually taking advantage of living in london. he's a cool dude, and troubled, and they should have him do more.
this show, man, i'm sticking with it to the end because beard but it has been pretty rough lately. i'm realizing i'm participating in a little bit of a dogpile down here at the bottom of the thread, but also, blah, if it didn't have potential i wouldn't get nearly so bothered about it.
in conclusion: five times as much beard and whenever beard's not around people should say things like "where's beard?"
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 5:51 PM on April 12, 2023 [13 favorites]
also he's in an abusive relationship which seems like something worth exploring. and his life is baseline about a hundred thousand times more exciting than anyone else on the show's, like, he's the only one on the show,mexcept the players, actually taking advantage of living in london. he's a cool dude, and troubled, and they should have him do more.
this show, man, i'm sticking with it to the end because beard but it has been pretty rough lately. i'm realizing i'm participating in a little bit of a dogpile down here at the bottom of the thread, but also, blah, if it didn't have potential i wouldn't get nearly so bothered about it.
in conclusion: five times as much beard and whenever beard's not around people should say things like "where's beard?"
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 5:51 PM on April 12, 2023 [13 favorites]
This was by far my least favorite episode of the show. I really hope this will not be the beginning of the downfall of Ted Lasso. I don't want to look back at this show and remember it as one that started out terrific and then just let the entire audience down in the final season.
Folks above have touched on pretty much all of the stuff i hated, but I'll add my $2 anyway (inflation):
jenfullmoon, from the post: the coaches are coming off as dumb idiots who can't figure out anything
Ted's usefulness to this team is at its end. They needed to come together as young men who respect and love one another, who lift each other up, who work together. They got there thanks to Ted. Now they need a fucking football coach and that is not Ted. Beard and Roy are doing their best, but they're no wonder kids, as they themselves have admitted. I'm a maybe-to-probably on Nate coming back to Richmond (after appropriate apologies and amends) and turning the season around - but it's also possible he won't leave Rupert and West Ham until the season (both football and episodes) is over. I don't expect Richmond to win the season. I really think the trailer for this season was telling us exactly what would happen: You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find you get what you need. I think this is gonna be true for all of the characters, whether professional or personal.
Ted will go back to Kansas at the end of S3. I thought the structure of the three-season arc was straightforward. Sudeikis said right from the start that the story he wanted to tell was three seasons' worth of story. Since the show is about "bad dads" and the effects dads have on sons, it only makes sense if he returns to be with Henry once his usefulness to Richmond is at an end. I'm not so sure they'll fire him--I think it more likely he'll resign--but I do think he's gone at the end of S3 either way.
The psychic's predictions coming true on something that can't be dismissed as a weird coincidence -- fucking bullshit absolutely terrible.
WaterAndPixels: Trent’s rainbow hug is also a sign.
I love this typo and I'm keeping it forever.
bombastic lowercase pronouncements: i've decided, from my seat up on high, that the mortal sin of this show is that ted lasso never bothers to understand soccer.
A-fricken-men. So disappointing and so stupid.
ellieBOA: bisexual invisibility is real!
...pretty sure it's visible? I mean, she told us so in S1, and we saw her kissing and having sex with a woman in this episode. She's more than a few times been bowled over by Rebecca's body (figuratively - oh shit, that's STILL a pun). Bisexual women often date both men and women, right? Or did you mean that the audience didn't notice that bit of dialog in S1? Super-confused by this statement.
adrianhon: Lol, a mere week after I said I’d be extremely disappointed if Nate gets Jade as a “reward” and, well…
The entire Nate story/arc has been badly fumbled, which is a shame because it could have been really meaningful and tied into the "bad dad/no dad" stuff (which it was at first). His and Jade's entire set of interactions have been strange and poorly written and make little sense. Still, at least Jade trying to be a little nice to him after he's been embarrassingly abandoned by his date (who blindingly obviously didn't care for him in the first place) puts paid to that weird "Jade doesn't like Nate because Racism" sidebar that a couple of people around the internet had going on.
crossoverman: Rebecca is all of a sudden sad she doesn't have a baby, when I've never thought she wanted one.
The show has implied more than once that Rebecca never had children because Rupert didn't want children, and she resigned herself to that as his wife. Then, by the time she got out of the marriage, it was basically too late (as we find out in this episode), and Rupert went and had a child with someone else which I honestly wouldn't put it past him to have done just to fuck Rebecca up some more, because he is the Literal Worst. So she's in some real pain about that.
Ugh. I don't know, you guys. This is so disappointing. I really hope we're not looking at seven more terrible episodes. Heartbreak.
posted by tzikeh at 6:31 PM on April 12, 2023 [5 favorites]
Folks above have touched on pretty much all of the stuff i hated, but I'll add my $2 anyway (inflation):
jenfullmoon, from the post: the coaches are coming off as dumb idiots who can't figure out anything
Ted's usefulness to this team is at its end. They needed to come together as young men who respect and love one another, who lift each other up, who work together. They got there thanks to Ted. Now they need a fucking football coach and that is not Ted. Beard and Roy are doing their best, but they're no wonder kids, as they themselves have admitted. I'm a maybe-to-probably on Nate coming back to Richmond (after appropriate apologies and amends) and turning the season around - but it's also possible he won't leave Rupert and West Ham until the season (both football and episodes) is over. I don't expect Richmond to win the season. I really think the trailer for this season was telling us exactly what would happen: You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find you get what you need. I think this is gonna be true for all of the characters, whether professional or personal.
Ted will go back to Kansas at the end of S3. I thought the structure of the three-season arc was straightforward. Sudeikis said right from the start that the story he wanted to tell was three seasons' worth of story. Since the show is about "bad dads" and the effects dads have on sons, it only makes sense if he returns to be with Henry once his usefulness to Richmond is at an end. I'm not so sure they'll fire him--I think it more likely he'll resign--but I do think he's gone at the end of S3 either way.
The psychic's predictions coming true on something that can't be dismissed as a weird coincidence -- fucking bullshit absolutely terrible.
WaterAndPixels: Trent’s rainbow hug is also a sign.
I love this typo and I'm keeping it forever.
bombastic lowercase pronouncements: i've decided, from my seat up on high, that the mortal sin of this show is that ted lasso never bothers to understand soccer.
A-fricken-men. So disappointing and so stupid.
ellieBOA: bisexual invisibility is real!
...pretty sure it's visible? I mean, she told us so in S1, and we saw her kissing and having sex with a woman in this episode. She's more than a few times been bowled over by Rebecca's body (figuratively - oh shit, that's STILL a pun). Bisexual women often date both men and women, right? Or did you mean that the audience didn't notice that bit of dialog in S1? Super-confused by this statement.
adrianhon: Lol, a mere week after I said I’d be extremely disappointed if Nate gets Jade as a “reward” and, well…
The entire Nate story/arc has been badly fumbled, which is a shame because it could have been really meaningful and tied into the "bad dad/no dad" stuff (which it was at first). His and Jade's entire set of interactions have been strange and poorly written and make little sense. Still, at least Jade trying to be a little nice to him after he's been embarrassingly abandoned by his date (who blindingly obviously didn't care for him in the first place) puts paid to that weird "Jade doesn't like Nate because Racism" sidebar that a couple of people around the internet had going on.
crossoverman: Rebecca is all of a sudden sad she doesn't have a baby, when I've never thought she wanted one.
The show has implied more than once that Rebecca never had children because Rupert didn't want children, and she resigned herself to that as his wife. Then, by the time she got out of the marriage, it was basically too late (as we find out in this episode), and Rupert went and had a child with someone else which I honestly wouldn't put it past him to have done just to fuck Rebecca up some more, because he is the Literal Worst. So she's in some real pain about that.
Ugh. I don't know, you guys. This is so disappointing. I really hope we're not looking at seven more terrible episodes. Heartbreak.
posted by tzikeh at 6:31 PM on April 12, 2023 [5 favorites]
This is definitely the worst season of the show, but I still find it good fun to watch with the family. I wish the episodes were shorter. I don’t really get all the hate.
I called the Jack and Keeley ship last week when Jack ogled her after the bathroom scene.
Nate and Rupert will hit the rocks. Nate will quit/get fired and return to Richmond. His coaching will help beat West Ham in the finale. Nate will be the new coach of Richmond when Ted returns to Kansas.
Trent Crimm’s mug was definitely intentional. I agree with the theory from an older thread that he’ll play a role in protecting or mentoring Colin.
Roy will help turn Jaime into Richmond’s talisman. He’ll reconcile with Keeley, even if they don’t get together again.
Ted and Rebecca will realize their love for each other. Rebecca will return to Kansas with Ted to help raise Henry - that’s her family.
Rebecca gifts Leslie with ownership of Richmond?
It’s been a great show with fun characters, and I’ll enjoy seeing things wrap up.
posted by gnutron at 7:16 PM on April 12, 2023 [10 favorites]
I called the Jack and Keeley ship last week when Jack ogled her after the bathroom scene.
Nate and Rupert will hit the rocks. Nate will quit/get fired and return to Richmond. His coaching will help beat West Ham in the finale. Nate will be the new coach of Richmond when Ted returns to Kansas.
Trent Crimm’s mug was definitely intentional. I agree with the theory from an older thread that he’ll play a role in protecting or mentoring Colin.
Roy will help turn Jaime into Richmond’s talisman. He’ll reconcile with Keeley, even if they don’t get together again.
Ted and Rebecca will realize their love for each other. Rebecca will return to Kansas with Ted to help raise Henry - that’s her family.
Rebecca gifts Leslie with ownership of Richmond?
It’s been a great show with fun characters, and I’ll enjoy seeing things wrap up.
posted by gnutron at 7:16 PM on April 12, 2023 [10 favorites]
I believe the psychic specifically said she would 'you will have a family' and not 'have a baby'.
From the transcript, the exchange:
PSYCHIC: You will have a family.
REBECCA: Sorry, what did you just say?
PSYCHIC: You're going to be a mother.
REBECCA: Fuck you.
He finds himself defending the restaurant, not just the food but the place’s importance in his life.
It's weird to take someone to a place whose main selling point is the importance in his life (like really, there have to be a million other places in London with equally good food that would be more Anastasia's speed) when they barely know each other. I felt more sorry for Anastasia than Nate in this scene, even though I know that wasn't what was intended.
Also grossed out by the part with Jade at the end. I too remember that he tried to hit on her while she was on the job last season and I don't think shit like that should be rewarded, no matter how much they want to sell the Nate redemption arc. Garbage like this is why I hate 99% of redemption arcs.
posted by creepygirl at 7:23 PM on April 12, 2023 [5 favorites]
From the transcript, the exchange:
PSYCHIC: You will have a family.
REBECCA: Sorry, what did you just say?
PSYCHIC: You're going to be a mother.
REBECCA: Fuck you.
He finds himself defending the restaurant, not just the food but the place’s importance in his life.
It's weird to take someone to a place whose main selling point is the importance in his life (like really, there have to be a million other places in London with equally good food that would be more Anastasia's speed) when they barely know each other. I felt more sorry for Anastasia than Nate in this scene, even though I know that wasn't what was intended.
Also grossed out by the part with Jade at the end. I too remember that he tried to hit on her while she was on the job last season and I don't think shit like that should be rewarded, no matter how much they want to sell the Nate redemption arc. Garbage like this is why I hate 99% of redemption arcs.
posted by creepygirl at 7:23 PM on April 12, 2023 [5 favorites]
This episode made me really sad, so sad I had to post something after lurking so long. Everything in the show is unraveling and I love these people!
The arcs are at their widest, but doesn’t it have to be that Way in the middle of the season?
It seems to me that the show is building an ultimate Rebecca+Ted arc that culminates in a family for the two of them. Why else do we keep seeing them collide in the hallway?
The psychic is a dramatic device, an oracle. The oracle is always right in the end, but at the same time the characters never interpret the oracle correctly. As of this episode we only have the wrong interpretations, the misdirections. It won’t be till Act V that we get to see how the oracle was correct.
posted by gluejar at 7:24 PM on April 12, 2023 [5 favorites]
The arcs are at their widest, but doesn’t it have to be that Way in the middle of the season?
It seems to me that the show is building an ultimate Rebecca+Ted arc that culminates in a family for the two of them. Why else do we keep seeing them collide in the hallway?
The psychic is a dramatic device, an oracle. The oracle is always right in the end, but at the same time the characters never interpret the oracle correctly. As of this episode we only have the wrong interpretations, the misdirections. It won’t be till Act V that we get to see how the oracle was correct.
posted by gluejar at 7:24 PM on April 12, 2023 [5 favorites]
Oof, yeah. So a few episodes in, the longer running times just feel like they're making room for other shows rather than making more of the primary show.
For my part, I would be absolutely happy to see "Zava's Acovado Farm" as a spin-off.
posted by rongorongo at 11:35 PM on April 12, 2023 [1 favorite]
For my part, I would be absolutely happy to see "Zava's Acovado Farm" as a spin-off.
posted by rongorongo at 11:35 PM on April 12, 2023 [1 favorite]
First of all, did anyone else notice the refrain of "4 a.m." in this episode?
* Roy says that the best time to deal with bullies is to break into their house and stand over them (and, uh... torture them) is 4 a.m.
* Barbara tells Keeley that Shandy got drunk and called one of their clients (a sunglass maker) with a ridiculous idea at 4 a.m.
* Jamie confirmed with Roy that they'll be training again the next day at 4 a.m. (a throwback to last week's episode)
Those little echoes were certainly intentional; I just don't know why.
Next, I see the Nate scenes in so opposite a way as many of you. Last week — his comment to Rupert that he left things with Ted badly, him hiding in the corner of the elevator, his intention of seeking Ted out at the end (and failing) are all signs that this was intentional all along, for the Nate story to be a redemption arc. (We've known that they've had all the Nate stuff planned from the beginning, with Nate and Ted not having any scenes along together through all of season 2 until the big kerfuffle in the last ep; Nate's hair going from black to almost completely grey ... and now there's more black in it...)
I'm not a Nate apologist (though I recognize that having grown up with a father like his, then getting to experience Ted's love and bask in it and then feel it ebbing away, must have felt like a tragedy to Nate, and while Nate has always had a dark side, you totally get where he got it.
So, when he took Anastasia to the restaurant, I absolutely didn't see him as going there to show her off, but him going to a place that's meaningful to him, that feels safe to him, that he wanted to share with someone he was excited about because SHE had shown enough interest in HIM to have the assistant prod him to ask her out. (Yes, Anastasia is two-dimensional and awful, but that's beside the point.)
The thing that Jade liked about him was the thing that he wasn't at all trying to do; he wasn't being geeky and awkward, he wasn't being pushy, he wasn't even trying on some other persona. He was being how he is, and ends up talking like his Gran and saying "divine" and I think Jade, whom I think we initially thought was supposed to be stuck up or racist or bullying or whatever, just hates her job and her life in that restaurant and is a lot like how Nate was when he was the ignored kit man, and this sign of the true sweetness of Nate offers an opening for him to relate to someone, anyone, in a completely low-stakes and natural way.
I don't see Jade as a reward, except in the way that the people we can be our true selves with are a "reward" for being authentic and vulnerable.
Third, I don't think Ted was ever supposed to understand the game of soccer; I doubt he really, truly understood the athletic part of (American) football. He's molding young men; he brought Beard to do the sports thing, he's doing the human thing. Is that folly? In real life, sure. In a show that's about, more than anything else, dismantling toxic masculinity, I think it's perfect.
Fourth, I'll kinda admit I was expecting the absence of Zava to be about them finding they had the power within all along. But along with RomCommunism and Ted's lessons, we're in the dark forest right now. But it will all be OK in the end. It may not be what we expect, it may not be what we want, but it will be...
And finally, I'm pretty sure that Keeley's been very clear about her sexual comfort with women. (Oh, look, tzikeh quoted the ep.) She wasn't just complimenting Rebecca's breasts from the photos in season 1, and though she was teasing when flirting with Rebecca, I don't think there's anything surprising about Keeley's sexual attraction to Jack. But I think that's all it is, just sexual and not emotional, whereas her connection with Roy was profound because they were truly able to be vulnerable and their full selves with one another.
Did I love this episode? No. Like many of the eps this season, I thought it was overly long and unfocused. But I also think all of these arcs were CAREFULLY planned out for these three years. This is not like Lost with the writers foundering and floundering in the end. The end will be what was intended, and I have faith. (I'm also hoping that we're done with Shandy, because both she and Zava were one trick ponies, here to set some storylines in motion and that's all.)
"4 a.m." made me feel the same way the Beard episode did, that there was something coded and mysterious going on and that I didn't feel like I could have all of the opinions until I knew all the things. (Is there a poem to unlock this ep, like the other, I wonder?)
posted by The Wrong Kind of Cheese at 2:02 AM on April 13, 2023 [17 favorites]
* Roy says that the best time to deal with bullies is to break into their house and stand over them (and, uh... torture them) is 4 a.m.
* Barbara tells Keeley that Shandy got drunk and called one of their clients (a sunglass maker) with a ridiculous idea at 4 a.m.
* Jamie confirmed with Roy that they'll be training again the next day at 4 a.m. (a throwback to last week's episode)
Those little echoes were certainly intentional; I just don't know why.
Next, I see the Nate scenes in so opposite a way as many of you. Last week — his comment to Rupert that he left things with Ted badly, him hiding in the corner of the elevator, his intention of seeking Ted out at the end (and failing) are all signs that this was intentional all along, for the Nate story to be a redemption arc. (We've known that they've had all the Nate stuff planned from the beginning, with Nate and Ted not having any scenes along together through all of season 2 until the big kerfuffle in the last ep; Nate's hair going from black to almost completely grey ... and now there's more black in it...)
I'm not a Nate apologist (though I recognize that having grown up with a father like his, then getting to experience Ted's love and bask in it and then feel it ebbing away, must have felt like a tragedy to Nate, and while Nate has always had a dark side, you totally get where he got it.
So, when he took Anastasia to the restaurant, I absolutely didn't see him as going there to show her off, but him going to a place that's meaningful to him, that feels safe to him, that he wanted to share with someone he was excited about because SHE had shown enough interest in HIM to have the assistant prod him to ask her out. (Yes, Anastasia is two-dimensional and awful, but that's beside the point.)
The thing that Jade liked about him was the thing that he wasn't at all trying to do; he wasn't being geeky and awkward, he wasn't being pushy, he wasn't even trying on some other persona. He was being how he is, and ends up talking like his Gran and saying "divine" and I think Jade, whom I think we initially thought was supposed to be stuck up or racist or bullying or whatever, just hates her job and her life in that restaurant and is a lot like how Nate was when he was the ignored kit man, and this sign of the true sweetness of Nate offers an opening for him to relate to someone, anyone, in a completely low-stakes and natural way.
I don't see Jade as a reward, except in the way that the people we can be our true selves with are a "reward" for being authentic and vulnerable.
Third, I don't think Ted was ever supposed to understand the game of soccer; I doubt he really, truly understood the athletic part of (American) football. He's molding young men; he brought Beard to do the sports thing, he's doing the human thing. Is that folly? In real life, sure. In a show that's about, more than anything else, dismantling toxic masculinity, I think it's perfect.
Fourth, I'll kinda admit I was expecting the absence of Zava to be about them finding they had the power within all along. But along with RomCommunism and Ted's lessons, we're in the dark forest right now. But it will all be OK in the end. It may not be what we expect, it may not be what we want, but it will be...
And finally, I'm pretty sure that Keeley's been very clear about her sexual comfort with women. (Oh, look, tzikeh quoted the ep.) She wasn't just complimenting Rebecca's breasts from the photos in season 1, and though she was teasing when flirting with Rebecca, I don't think there's anything surprising about Keeley's sexual attraction to Jack. But I think that's all it is, just sexual and not emotional, whereas her connection with Roy was profound because they were truly able to be vulnerable and their full selves with one another.
Did I love this episode? No. Like many of the eps this season, I thought it was overly long and unfocused. But I also think all of these arcs were CAREFULLY planned out for these three years. This is not like Lost with the writers foundering and floundering in the end. The end will be what was intended, and I have faith. (I'm also hoping that we're done with Shandy, because both she and Zava were one trick ponies, here to set some storylines in motion and that's all.)
"4 a.m." made me feel the same way the Beard episode did, that there was something coded and mysterious going on and that I didn't feel like I could have all of the opinions until I knew all the things. (Is there a poem to unlock this ep, like the other, I wonder?)
posted by The Wrong Kind of Cheese at 2:02 AM on April 13, 2023 [17 favorites]
> Jodi Balfour’s accent I think is trying to be so southern English it’s gone a bit Australian!
Checking Wikipedia, she's from South Africa, so maybe it's that? (Also, she's engaged to Abbi Jacobson, from Broad City and A League of their Own.)
>> This makes me think something terrible is going to happen to Sassy
> Not going to happen - this show's framework can't support killing a "real" person.
It occurred to me that something might be medically wrong with Lasso, and that's what's up with his "panic attacks". Dread can be a symptom of hypertension.
I'm oddly nervous about the annoying psychic mentioning my namesake.
posted by Pronoiac at 2:25 AM on April 13, 2023
Checking Wikipedia, she's from South Africa, so maybe it's that? (Also, she's engaged to Abbi Jacobson, from Broad City and A League of their Own.)
>> This makes me think something terrible is going to happen to Sassy
> Not going to happen - this show's framework can't support killing a "real" person.
It occurred to me that something might be medically wrong with Lasso, and that's what's up with his "panic attacks". Dread can be a symptom of hypertension.
I'm oddly nervous about the annoying psychic mentioning my namesake.
posted by Pronoiac at 2:25 AM on April 13, 2023
Having been on the receiving end of some pretty rude and racist behaviour from customer-facing staff, I've never thought of Jade as being bullying or racist – just professional. And while her boss is an over-the-top Nate fanboy, we haven't seen him treat Jade badly, so I don't know we can conclude she hates her job or boss.
It isn't the worst thing in the world for her to be sympathetic to someone who's been stood up by their date, but I'm uncomfortable with the message that if a guy behaves slightly better (and even that's arguable) then the woman who he's clearly been intent on (unsuccessfully) impressing will turn around to the extent that she'll share dessert with him.
posted by adrianhon at 2:50 AM on April 13, 2023 [9 favorites]
It isn't the worst thing in the world for her to be sympathetic to someone who's been stood up by their date, but I'm uncomfortable with the message that if a guy behaves slightly better (and even that's arguable) then the woman who he's clearly been intent on (unsuccessfully) impressing will turn around to the extent that she'll share dessert with him.
posted by adrianhon at 2:50 AM on April 13, 2023 [9 favorites]
First of all, did anyone else notice the refrain of "4 a.m." in this episode?
4am is the end of the witching hour - the time when bad things that might happen, would manifest. It is the time when our heart-rate, blood sugar and temperature are lowest - but also then we might wake from REM sleep and feel particularly disoriented - or perhaps with a feeling of having a revelation about our most important problems in life:
"Its four in the morning, once more the dawning just woke up a warning in me"
posted by rongorongo at 3:04 AM on April 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
4am is the end of the witching hour - the time when bad things that might happen, would manifest. It is the time when our heart-rate, blood sugar and temperature are lowest - but also then we might wake from REM sleep and feel particularly disoriented - or perhaps with a feeling of having a revelation about our most important problems in life:
"Its four in the morning, once more the dawning just woke up a warning in me"
posted by rongorongo at 3:04 AM on April 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
Is there a poem to unlock this ep, like the other, I wonder?
Wait - what? There’s a poem for understanding the Beard episode? Can anyone share?
posted by Silvery Fish at 3:35 AM on April 13, 2023
Wait - what? There’s a poem for understanding the Beard episode? Can anyone share?
posted by Silvery Fish at 3:35 AM on April 13, 2023
Wait - what? There’s a poem for understanding the Beard episode? Can anyone share?
Maybe Rives: The museum of four in the morning
(he certainly lists absolutely every other citation of that time)
posted by rongorongo at 4:22 AM on April 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
Maybe Rives: The museum of four in the morning
(he certainly lists absolutely every other citation of that time)
posted by rongorongo at 4:22 AM on April 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
Or did you mean that the audience didn't notice that bit of dialog in S1?
This! Combined with her being in an opposite sex relationship for most of the series.
posted by ellieBOA at 5:25 AM on April 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
This! Combined with her being in an opposite sex relationship for most of the series.
posted by ellieBOA at 5:25 AM on April 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
The Wrong Kind of Cheese: his comment to Rupert that he left things with Ted badly, him hiding in the corner of the elevator, his intention of seeking Ted out at the end (and failing) are all signs that this was intentional all along, for the Nate story to be a redemption arc.
I don't think anyone's saying that the redemption arc is a surprise, just that it's badly badly BADLY written.
I think we initially thought was supposed to be stuck up or racist or bullying or whatever, just hates her job and her life in that restaurant
But she's always been cold and flat with customer Nate from the second he walked in the door the very first time, while she was immediately kind, smiling, and helpful with customer Anastasia (when she didn't know Anastasia was with Nate). Her character's writing is a mess.
posted by tzikeh at 6:37 AM on April 13, 2023 [5 favorites]
I don't think anyone's saying that the redemption arc is a surprise, just that it's badly badly BADLY written.
I think we initially thought was supposed to be stuck up or racist or bullying or whatever, just hates her job and her life in that restaurant
But she's always been cold and flat with customer Nate from the second he walked in the door the very first time, while she was immediately kind, smiling, and helpful with customer Anastasia (when she didn't know Anastasia was with Nate). Her character's writing is a mess.
posted by tzikeh at 6:37 AM on April 13, 2023 [5 favorites]
But I also think all of these arcs were CAREFULLY planned out for these three years. This is not like Lost with the writers foundering and floundering in the end. The end will be what was intended, and I have faith.
Definitely, and this has been a hallmark of the show's quality thus far. My worries/criticisms are that I think the carefully planned arcs for these characters are now starting to not seem very real, that character is starting to serve story rather than the reverse, and that some really awkward writing decisions were made about this season; these are things until now uncharacteristic of this show.
So my own criticism is not that the writers don't know what they're doing, it's that they do, and their decisions are noticeably less effective so far than in the previous two seasons. But we'll see, we're only halfway there this season.
(I do find myself wondering how much time/energy developing and writing Shrinking took Bill Lawrence and Brett Goldstein away from Ted Lasso as their primary effort.)
posted by LooseFilter at 7:17 AM on April 13, 2023
Definitely, and this has been a hallmark of the show's quality thus far. My worries/criticisms are that I think the carefully planned arcs for these characters are now starting to not seem very real, that character is starting to serve story rather than the reverse, and that some really awkward writing decisions were made about this season; these are things until now uncharacteristic of this show.
So my own criticism is not that the writers don't know what they're doing, it's that they do, and their decisions are noticeably less effective so far than in the previous two seasons. But we'll see, we're only halfway there this season.
(I do find myself wondering how much time/energy developing and writing Shrinking took Bill Lawrence and Brett Goldstein away from Ted Lasso as their primary effort.)
posted by LooseFilter at 7:17 AM on April 13, 2023
I'm just happy we finally got to hear Bumbercatch's name because I keep seeing it on the back of the guy's jersey and thinking that it's pretty funny.
posted by jessamyn at 8:21 AM on April 13, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by jessamyn at 8:21 AM on April 13, 2023 [6 favorites]
I read Jade being nice to Anastasia as a dig at Nate, acting like they weren't together.
posted by jeweled accumulation at 10:22 AM on April 13, 2023 [12 favorites]
posted by jeweled accumulation at 10:22 AM on April 13, 2023 [12 favorites]
I'm hoping things will come back into focus a bit now that the fast-forward-Zava-montage era is over. Disappointing that we didn't see more specifically the coaches coming to the realization their team cohesion was off and what they were trying once the "who cares, we're winning" magic was gone.
I don't think they'll win the league (is it mathematically possible at this point?) but they'll turn things around, beat their big rival, finish in the top 5 (and not be relegated). Pretty great season for a team that barely clawed its way back from relegation and everyone had finishing at the bottom, really.
I guess I'm in the minority in that I feel like Ted actually knows at least a fair amount about soccer now. Obviously no expert or tactical genius, but we've seen him learn about a few aspects piecemeal through the seasons. When the other coaches are discussing strategy, it seems to be with the assumption he has at least some clue of what they are talking about. Not really important in the grand scheme, but I think it's at least part of his growth arc. Nice to see him stave off the panic attack, seems like a significant development buried in this episode.
We're spending a lot of time at Keeley's company, which could have been interesting, but nothing is really coming of it. Most of the workers are still anonymous, the CFO is still awkwardly on the outside, and Keeley didn't help mentor Shandy or even come to the decision to fire her herself. 10 out of 10 for creativity coming up with a reason why two co-workers would get stuck at the office late and have to light a bunch of candles, I guess. The CFO might want to check in on that candle budget though if they just had all of them on hand.
Having Rebecca tied up in plot points based on a visit to a psychic is criminal; giving the psychic this much credibility elevates the crime to a felony. A surprisingly lazy trope to be employed by this show.
Not sure if Nate will redeem himself all the way back to Richmond, but he'll be done with Rupert one way or the other by the end. It would be nice if he and Jade could become friendly neighborhood acquaintances. I wonder if his exact fate is tied up in a potential spin-off show (or lack thereof).
Now that the Believe sign is torn into smaller pieces, I'm even more sure that it will be taped back together and used as the cover of Trent's book.
posted by mikepop at 12:21 PM on April 13, 2023 [6 favorites]
I don't think they'll win the league (is it mathematically possible at this point?) but they'll turn things around, beat their big rival, finish in the top 5 (and not be relegated). Pretty great season for a team that barely clawed its way back from relegation and everyone had finishing at the bottom, really.
I guess I'm in the minority in that I feel like Ted actually knows at least a fair amount about soccer now. Obviously no expert or tactical genius, but we've seen him learn about a few aspects piecemeal through the seasons. When the other coaches are discussing strategy, it seems to be with the assumption he has at least some clue of what they are talking about. Not really important in the grand scheme, but I think it's at least part of his growth arc. Nice to see him stave off the panic attack, seems like a significant development buried in this episode.
We're spending a lot of time at Keeley's company, which could have been interesting, but nothing is really coming of it. Most of the workers are still anonymous, the CFO is still awkwardly on the outside, and Keeley didn't help mentor Shandy or even come to the decision to fire her herself. 10 out of 10 for creativity coming up with a reason why two co-workers would get stuck at the office late and have to light a bunch of candles, I guess. The CFO might want to check in on that candle budget though if they just had all of them on hand.
Having Rebecca tied up in plot points based on a visit to a psychic is criminal; giving the psychic this much credibility elevates the crime to a felony. A surprisingly lazy trope to be employed by this show.
Not sure if Nate will redeem himself all the way back to Richmond, but he'll be done with Rupert one way or the other by the end. It would be nice if he and Jade could become friendly neighborhood acquaintances. I wonder if his exact fate is tied up in a potential spin-off show (or lack thereof).
Now that the Believe sign is torn into smaller pieces, I'm even more sure that it will be taped back together and used as the cover of Trent's book.
posted by mikepop at 12:21 PM on April 13, 2023 [6 favorites]
I think the show has been pointing to a Ted & Rebecca pairing since the first episode, from the Boss Biscuits thing to the constant hallway meet-ups, plus just how conveniently each of them has the strengths that the other lacks. I think the show ends with Rebecca and Ted getting out of the soccer business entirely and embarking on a new life together with Henry-- Rebecca sells the team to Jack (but Leslie is running the team, as I think Jack will be a hands-off owner, mainly so her character is freed up to be part of what I imagine will be an inevitable spin-off series for Keely), Nate comes back to coach Richmond, and we are all set for an AFC Richmond spin-off (My money is on Roy to be the primary focus of the show).
posted by KingEdRa at 2:17 PM on April 13, 2023
posted by KingEdRa at 2:17 PM on April 13, 2023
I'm switching to hate-watching after the whole fucking psychic bullshit.
I HATE THAT SHIT!!
posted by Pendragon at 2:27 PM on April 13, 2023 [3 favorites]
I HATE THAT SHIT!!
posted by Pendragon at 2:27 PM on April 13, 2023 [3 favorites]
Well I enjoyed it. I'm slightly baffled by all the hate above. It's always been a deeply flawed, implausible, eratic, illogical and silly show, I thought that was its charm and was the reason why everyone liked it.
posted by chill at 3:06 PM on April 13, 2023 [15 favorites]
posted by chill at 3:06 PM on April 13, 2023 [15 favorites]
"If I'm gonna dip my toe back into the lady pool, I can't think of a finer body of water to do it with than you."
Okay, okay, I guess she has been bisexual all along and this wasn't just written by a bunch of dudes who like girl-on-girl action.
Sorry, as a regularly invisible bi person, I find this ongoing need to parse one line of dialogue to understand this so frustrating. This progression of the story, where she is still hung up over Roy, reminiscing about Jamie and now having sex with her boss... feels weird. (This is a clear example of how this show has changed - last season they navigated Rebecca dating Sam with such tenderness and thoughtfulness and now Keely is just fucking the major investor in her new business.)
Keeley's sexuality combined with whatever they are doing with Colin this season feels odd to me. The Colin stuff is all about being closeted with the occasional musical reference! So retrograde. (Honestly, this show is full of references to musicals made by aggressively heterosexual men and yet somehow Colin talking about My Fair Lady gets my hackles up!)
posted by crossoverman at 6:38 PM on April 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
Okay, okay, I guess she has been bisexual all along and this wasn't just written by a bunch of dudes who like girl-on-girl action.
Sorry, as a regularly invisible bi person, I find this ongoing need to parse one line of dialogue to understand this so frustrating. This progression of the story, where she is still hung up over Roy, reminiscing about Jamie and now having sex with her boss... feels weird. (This is a clear example of how this show has changed - last season they navigated Rebecca dating Sam with such tenderness and thoughtfulness and now Keely is just fucking the major investor in her new business.)
Keeley's sexuality combined with whatever they are doing with Colin this season feels odd to me. The Colin stuff is all about being closeted with the occasional musical reference! So retrograde. (Honestly, this show is full of references to musicals made by aggressively heterosexual men and yet somehow Colin talking about My Fair Lady gets my hackles up!)
posted by crossoverman at 6:38 PM on April 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
Please sign my petition to ban Henry. There can still be references to him, I guess, since it would be weird not to, but no more on-screen appearances. The writers give him terrible dialogue, and the actor is... well, he's probably doing the best he can, given what he has to work with.
posted by The corpse in the library at 8:54 PM on April 13, 2023 [9 favorites]
posted by The corpse in the library at 8:54 PM on April 13, 2023 [9 favorites]
Actually, no, I don't want his character to be on the show any more, please figure out a way to get rid of him. It's too much of a bummer that his dad moved across an ocean without him.
posted by The corpse in the library at 8:55 PM on April 13, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by The corpse in the library at 8:55 PM on April 13, 2023 [4 favorites]
I've been thinking about the "Rebecca and Ted fall in love and move back to Kansas to be with Henry" theories.
If that's what the writers are setting up, they're doing a terrible job of it so far IMO. Rebecca's entire world, aside from Ted, is in Britain. Her aged mother, her two besties (Sassy and Keeley), her beloved goddaughter, her AFC Richmond colleagues. (Ironically, marrying someone else and leaving the country seems like a more plausible option for Rebecca before she met Ted, when the press was still hounding her about the divorce, she hadn't made friends with Keeley, and probably still thought she'd permanently burned her bridges with Sassy/Norah, and hadn't repaired her friendship with Higgins).
It would have to be a powerful love indeed to motivate Rebecca to leave so much behind. "They keep running into each other in the hallway" isn't much of a foundation for that. And they don't have much time left to establish it. And they're wasting time with stuff like the interminable, cringey, unfunny "shite in nining armor" scene, a scene that had no reason to exist except as motivation to get Rebecca to call her doctor. Which they could have done in a much more concise way, and without bringing back a boring and unpleasant dude that no one was eager to see again.
posted by creepygirl at 11:01 PM on April 13, 2023 [5 favorites]
If that's what the writers are setting up, they're doing a terrible job of it so far IMO. Rebecca's entire world, aside from Ted, is in Britain. Her aged mother, her two besties (Sassy and Keeley), her beloved goddaughter, her AFC Richmond colleagues. (Ironically, marrying someone else and leaving the country seems like a more plausible option for Rebecca before she met Ted, when the press was still hounding her about the divorce, she hadn't made friends with Keeley, and probably still thought she'd permanently burned her bridges with Sassy/Norah, and hadn't repaired her friendship with Higgins).
It would have to be a powerful love indeed to motivate Rebecca to leave so much behind. "They keep running into each other in the hallway" isn't much of a foundation for that. And they don't have much time left to establish it. And they're wasting time with stuff like the interminable, cringey, unfunny "shite in nining armor" scene, a scene that had no reason to exist except as motivation to get Rebecca to call her doctor. Which they could have done in a much more concise way, and without bringing back a boring and unpleasant dude that no one was eager to see again.
posted by creepygirl at 11:01 PM on April 13, 2023 [5 favorites]
Please sign my petition to ban Henry. There can still be references to him, I guess, since it would be weird not to, but no more on-screen appearances. The writers give him terrible dialogue, and the actor is... well, he's probably doing the best he can, given what he has to work with.
Our household feels the same way. Every scene with Henry comes to a crashing halt.
Really disappointed in how the Shandy character turned out, redeeming Barbara's view of her, and by extension, Keeley. I am also really disappointed that Sam is barely a character on this show now, and that a whole bunch of time was wasted on Zava- who was boring and trite and a complete caricature of a self centered Euro football dude. The team could have learned everything it needed to learn through the character of Zava in one or two episodes, tops.
I agree with a lot of what was written above, on both sides of the Ted Lasso is now Bad/is still Good. But generally the timing of everything seems off, the pacing of episodes is strange, and the show seems to have gone in too many directions at once. I don't really care about Keeley's company or her weird hateful staff. I will be mad if Jade gets together with Nate after he's been a total ass to her. The psychic stuff is annoying plot fluff.
I thought we'd get more of the actual footballers and their lives, but instead we got a bunch of randos added to a show that was perfectly self contained. That's what bothers me more than anything- the thoughtful, fairly tightly plotted, small scale Ted Lasso show seems to have lost its focus along with Ted Lasso the coach. It just feels like they've lost someone from the writer's room who kept the storytelling grounded and centered.
posted by oneirodynia at 11:43 PM on April 13, 2023 [4 favorites]
Our household feels the same way. Every scene with Henry comes to a crashing halt.
Really disappointed in how the Shandy character turned out, redeeming Barbara's view of her, and by extension, Keeley. I am also really disappointed that Sam is barely a character on this show now, and that a whole bunch of time was wasted on Zava- who was boring and trite and a complete caricature of a self centered Euro football dude. The team could have learned everything it needed to learn through the character of Zava in one or two episodes, tops.
I agree with a lot of what was written above, on both sides of the Ted Lasso is now Bad/is still Good. But generally the timing of everything seems off, the pacing of episodes is strange, and the show seems to have gone in too many directions at once. I don't really care about Keeley's company or her weird hateful staff. I will be mad if Jade gets together with Nate after he's been a total ass to her. The psychic stuff is annoying plot fluff.
I thought we'd get more of the actual footballers and their lives, but instead we got a bunch of randos added to a show that was perfectly self contained. That's what bothers me more than anything- the thoughtful, fairly tightly plotted, small scale Ted Lasso show seems to have lost its focus along with Ted Lasso the coach. It just feels like they've lost someone from the writer's room who kept the storytelling grounded and centered.
posted by oneirodynia at 11:43 PM on April 13, 2023 [4 favorites]
I just want to do a *gentle* pushback on the meaning of Mother being *specifically* you (personally) birthed a child.
There are many ways to be a Mother (and Father) that are not based on biology.
posted by Faintdreams at 3:20 AM on April 14, 2023 [19 favorites]
There are many ways to be a Mother (and Father) that are not based on biology.
posted by Faintdreams at 3:20 AM on April 14, 2023 [19 favorites]
Ted Lasso’s Maximilian Osinski Sees Zava As the Tom Cruise of Soccer [Vulture / Archive]
posted by ellieBOA at 5:03 AM on April 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by ellieBOA at 5:03 AM on April 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
It's very interesting, to me, to see which kinds of things get fans all grar'd up. I feel like this episode pulled a (more-than) hat trick, between Psychic Things and Nate Date and Zava Stuff and Sudden Bisexuality and Henry Existing. It's all the things that people who like Ted Lasso don't like!
I quite enjoyed this episode, but I think that that's ironically because I thought Ted Lasso was kind of shitty right from the start. Like, "kind of shitty" is part of its DNA, the way that dad jokes are inherently lame. That shows much more when seasons are longer than 10 episodes and episodes are longer than 30 minutes, but the show was always the thing it is now—it just gets twice as long every week to be it.
I suspect that there'll be a rug pull with the psychic, the way that Sam Richardson's "nice billionaire" got rug pulled. And I don't think that Jade is being offered to Nate "as a reward." I don't even completely think that it makes sense to think of Nate's arc as a "redemption" arc—like, how can it be a redemption arc when, only four episodes into Nate "breaking bad," it was already clear that Nate felt guilty and was struggling with things? Nate's entire plotline is a coming of age arc, including the part where he rejects his father figure, goes on a date with someone who he thinks is his ideal only to realize he doesn't actually like her, and bumbles about being kinda shitty.
And Keely has been aggressively bisexual from the very first episode. I'm not even talking about one specific line about her hooking up with women: she explicitly shows sexual attraction towards basically every woman on the show, flirts with them as aggressively as she flirts with men, and was jaw-drop gaga over Jack the minute Jack showed up on screen. This could not have been lampshaded any harder. And I don't think there's dissonance between the show's treatment of Colin and Keely: Colin is a professional football player and is enmeshed in a culture that doesn't handle LGBT stuff well, whereas Keely is not that whatsoever. I'm not sure if her thing with Jack is meant to be romantic or if it's just a steamy hookup between two relatively-emotionally-mature adults, but both she and Jack are coded as people who kind of have their shit together, and adults with their shit together hook up sometimes.
All that said, I unapologetically find Zava delightful, so you can basically assume that my takes on everything else are total lambshit. I want to hang out on Zava's avocado farm 🥺
posted by Tom Hanks Cannot Be Trusted at 6:19 AM on April 14, 2023 [19 favorites]
I quite enjoyed this episode, but I think that that's ironically because I thought Ted Lasso was kind of shitty right from the start. Like, "kind of shitty" is part of its DNA, the way that dad jokes are inherently lame. That shows much more when seasons are longer than 10 episodes and episodes are longer than 30 minutes, but the show was always the thing it is now—it just gets twice as long every week to be it.
I suspect that there'll be a rug pull with the psychic, the way that Sam Richardson's "nice billionaire" got rug pulled. And I don't think that Jade is being offered to Nate "as a reward." I don't even completely think that it makes sense to think of Nate's arc as a "redemption" arc—like, how can it be a redemption arc when, only four episodes into Nate "breaking bad," it was already clear that Nate felt guilty and was struggling with things? Nate's entire plotline is a coming of age arc, including the part where he rejects his father figure, goes on a date with someone who he thinks is his ideal only to realize he doesn't actually like her, and bumbles about being kinda shitty.
And Keely has been aggressively bisexual from the very first episode. I'm not even talking about one specific line about her hooking up with women: she explicitly shows sexual attraction towards basically every woman on the show, flirts with them as aggressively as she flirts with men, and was jaw-drop gaga over Jack the minute Jack showed up on screen. This could not have been lampshaded any harder. And I don't think there's dissonance between the show's treatment of Colin and Keely: Colin is a professional football player and is enmeshed in a culture that doesn't handle LGBT stuff well, whereas Keely is not that whatsoever. I'm not sure if her thing with Jack is meant to be romantic or if it's just a steamy hookup between two relatively-emotionally-mature adults, but both she and Jack are coded as people who kind of have their shit together, and adults with their shit together hook up sometimes.
All that said, I unapologetically find Zava delightful, so you can basically assume that my takes on everything else are total lambshit. I want to hang out on Zava's avocado farm 🥺
posted by Tom Hanks Cannot Be Trusted at 6:19 AM on April 14, 2023 [19 favorites]
And Keely has been aggressively bisexual from the very first episode.
Autostraddle agree.
posted by ellieBOA at 7:16 AM on April 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
Autostraddle agree.
posted by ellieBOA at 7:16 AM on April 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
I feel like those of you suggesting a Ted/Rebecca romance are watching a wholly different show. Ted is still holding a very large candle for his ex-wife, and the show set up a possible reconciliation by showing the ex-wife (I've forgotten her name) being impressed with Ted for actually sharing a negative emotion and calling her out on Dr. Jake.
Also, whether you hate the psychic thing or not (yes it's a trope but whatever), the green matchbox clearly points back to Sam, who Rebecca dumped for appearances only. It's entirely possible that Sam has a child we don't yet know about (or possibly has to adopt a niece or something), and Rebecca becomes a mother that way.
Besides, I hate the assumption that whenever a man and woman work together, they must eventually end up in a romantic relationship.
Separately -- My one big disappointment with this episode was that the bullying storyline was resolved too quickly and easily. I immediately felt bad a performed an apology rap? That's dumb. They had the opportunity to explore that Henry was suppressing feelings of anger because his father left him to go work in England. It could have set up a parallel with Ted's own suppressed negative feelings, and how there is a healthy way to communicate negative feelings without resorting to violence, having a panic attack, bullying someone else, etc. Major missed opportunity.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 8:10 AM on April 14, 2023 [16 favorites]
Also, whether you hate the psychic thing or not (yes it's a trope but whatever), the green matchbox clearly points back to Sam, who Rebecca dumped for appearances only. It's entirely possible that Sam has a child we don't yet know about (or possibly has to adopt a niece or something), and Rebecca becomes a mother that way.
Besides, I hate the assumption that whenever a man and woman work together, they must eventually end up in a romantic relationship.
Separately -- My one big disappointment with this episode was that the bullying storyline was resolved too quickly and easily. I immediately felt bad a performed an apology rap? That's dumb. They had the opportunity to explore that Henry was suppressing feelings of anger because his father left him to go work in England. It could have set up a parallel with Ted's own suppressed negative feelings, and how there is a healthy way to communicate negative feelings without resorting to violence, having a panic attack, bullying someone else, etc. Major missed opportunity.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 8:10 AM on April 14, 2023 [16 favorites]
While this episode made me sad, am I the only one who thought the message of the episode is that signs don't matter? Like yes - the psychic said things - but they don't matter. As Rebecca said - psychics are nonsense bullshit - all misdirection.
posted by Gyre,Gimble,Wabe, Esq. at 8:30 AM on April 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by Gyre,Gimble,Wabe, Esq. at 8:30 AM on April 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
"As Rebecca said - psychics are nonsense bullshit - all misdirection."
I mean, I certainly think that, but it sure seems to be an actual magic power in this show. A coincidence or two could be hand-waved, but unless this show gets weird enough to actually have had the psychic arrange for Rebecca's ex-bf's new fiancé to say the exact unusual turn of phrase with the exact same error that the psychic had said to Rebecca earlier, then the viewer would have to assume the psychic's power is real. Which I think is what's bothering some viewers.
posted by joelhunt at 9:21 AM on April 14, 2023 [7 favorites]
I mean, I certainly think that, but it sure seems to be an actual magic power in this show. A coincidence or two could be hand-waved, but unless this show gets weird enough to actually have had the psychic arrange for Rebecca's ex-bf's new fiancé to say the exact unusual turn of phrase with the exact same error that the psychic had said to Rebecca earlier, then the viewer would have to assume the psychic's power is real. Which I think is what's bothering some viewers.
posted by joelhunt at 9:21 AM on April 14, 2023 [7 favorites]
I don't even completely think that it makes sense to think of Nate's arc as a "redemption" arc—like, how can it be a redemption arc when, only four episodes into Nate "breaking bad," it was already clear that Nate felt guilty and was struggling with things? Nate's entire plotline is a coming of age arc, including the part where he rejects his father figure, goes on a date with someone who he thinks is his ideal only to realize he doesn't actually like her, and bumbles about being kinda shitty.
Last season Nate was shitty to a lot of people who were trying to help him--not just Ted, but also the new kitman and Keeley. We haven't seen any indication that he feels bad about anything but Ted. And the feeling bad about Ted part of it is just Nate looking mopey and not doing a goddamn thing about it.
Whether you call it coming of age or a redemption arc, I'm not interested in extensive focus on the feelings of the guy who did a lot of crummy stuff. Wake me up when he actually starts trying to do better, not feel better. And for some reason, writers of TV shows and movies love to drag out the "acting out in shitty ways" scenes and the "feeling guilty and conflicted that his shitty actions had consequences that a twelve year old could have predicted" part, and really give short shrift to the "taking action to make amends / try to treat people better than before". I find that irritating, and extra irritating on a show like Ted Lasso, where the people Nate wronged are genuinely good people who were trying their best to help him.
posted by creepygirl at 10:01 AM on April 14, 2023 [7 favorites]
Last season Nate was shitty to a lot of people who were trying to help him--not just Ted, but also the new kitman and Keeley. We haven't seen any indication that he feels bad about anything but Ted. And the feeling bad about Ted part of it is just Nate looking mopey and not doing a goddamn thing about it.
Whether you call it coming of age or a redemption arc, I'm not interested in extensive focus on the feelings of the guy who did a lot of crummy stuff. Wake me up when he actually starts trying to do better, not feel better. And for some reason, writers of TV shows and movies love to drag out the "acting out in shitty ways" scenes and the "feeling guilty and conflicted that his shitty actions had consequences that a twelve year old could have predicted" part, and really give short shrift to the "taking action to make amends / try to treat people better than before". I find that irritating, and extra irritating on a show like Ted Lasso, where the people Nate wronged are genuinely good people who were trying their best to help him.
posted by creepygirl at 10:01 AM on April 14, 2023 [7 favorites]
"As Rebecca said - psychics are nonsense bullshit - all misdirection."
Even if the show/writing/plot ends up coming around to and reinforcing this message*, we have wasted most of Rebecca's time being tied up with the psychic when instead she could have been mentoring Keeley, working through her feelings for Sam, doing high-end management things with Higgins, spending time with her goddaughter, falling for Ted if that is what's going to happen, or even some new plot points that would actually have meaning. At best, we have "Rebecca dabbled with a psychic, eventually realized it was nonsense, but it made her think about what she wanted in life." Which, fine, but that could have been a one or two episode arc and then have her moving on to actually doing meaningful things to get what she wants.
*I would love if, as someone suggested above, the ex-bf was planted by the psychic to say that line. Seems implausible but imagine the reckoning Rebecca would bring down upon the psychic!
posted by mikepop at 10:32 AM on April 14, 2023 [4 favorites]
Even if the show/writing/plot ends up coming around to and reinforcing this message*, we have wasted most of Rebecca's time being tied up with the psychic when instead she could have been mentoring Keeley, working through her feelings for Sam, doing high-end management things with Higgins, spending time with her goddaughter, falling for Ted if that is what's going to happen, or even some new plot points that would actually have meaning. At best, we have "Rebecca dabbled with a psychic, eventually realized it was nonsense, but it made her think about what she wanted in life." Which, fine, but that could have been a one or two episode arc and then have her moving on to actually doing meaningful things to get what she wants.
*I would love if, as someone suggested above, the ex-bf was planted by the psychic to say that line. Seems implausible but imagine the reckoning Rebecca would bring down upon the psychic!
posted by mikepop at 10:32 AM on April 14, 2023 [4 favorites]
Regardless, storylines about psychics are almost never about "oooh psychic powers are totally real!" They're about serendipity and how if you open your mind to possibilities in your life, all sorts of things might happen.
In other words, the story is not about Rebecca learning to believe in the occult; it's about her expanding her previously narrow view of her own life path.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 11:33 AM on April 14, 2023 [4 favorites]
In other words, the story is not about Rebecca learning to believe in the occult; it's about her expanding her previously narrow view of her own life path.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 11:33 AM on April 14, 2023 [4 favorites]
And for some reason, writers of TV shows and movies love to drag out the "acting out in shitty ways" scenes and the "feeling guilty and conflicted that his shitty actions had consequences that a twelve year old could have predicted" part, and really give short shrift to the "taking action to make amends / try to treat people better than before". I find that irritating, and extra irritating on a show like Ted Lasso
I don't disagree with you, but I'd argue that Ted Lasso has always been this show. Season 1 was more-or-less a "redeem characters" speedrun.
And the Nate-and-Jade dynamic has been interestingly nuanced all along, I think. Tellingly, Jade hasn't ever seen Nate at his worst: he tries to make a bit too much conversation, awkwardly tried to get his dad the seat, and works way too hard to try and impress her, but Jade also sees Nate at the times when he's... bad at it? Richmond has seen him act genuinely like a tiny tyrant and he's been an absolute cock with the press, mostly about Ted, but the restaurant is like a standalone microcosm, and I think Jade sees what he's up to, is deeply unamused and annoyed by the facade, and simultaneously understands that the facade itself is a byproduct of Nate not actually being Rupert Mk. II. And his date kinda proves that, while he's insecure, he's not so craven and spineless that he'll humor a supermodel who's talking shit about his favorite meal.
If this episode is the last we see of Dick Nate, this would be a deeply dissatisfying endpoint. And the show I wish Ted Lasso was would have Jade see Nate genuinely do something bullying, go "fuck that," and kill any possibility of them connecting. Based on its handling of Jamie in season 2, I suspect Nate's not getting off the hook that easily. But I found his interaction with Jade plausible and a little touching, and very reminiscent of actual social dynamics I experienced in my twenties. (Though I totally get other people having less sympathetic reactions, since "pity the shithead man" is leaned on way more heavily in media than it ought to be.)
posted by Tom Hanks Cannot Be Trusted at 11:33 AM on April 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
I don't disagree with you, but I'd argue that Ted Lasso has always been this show. Season 1 was more-or-less a "redeem characters" speedrun.
And the Nate-and-Jade dynamic has been interestingly nuanced all along, I think. Tellingly, Jade hasn't ever seen Nate at his worst: he tries to make a bit too much conversation, awkwardly tried to get his dad the seat, and works way too hard to try and impress her, but Jade also sees Nate at the times when he's... bad at it? Richmond has seen him act genuinely like a tiny tyrant and he's been an absolute cock with the press, mostly about Ted, but the restaurant is like a standalone microcosm, and I think Jade sees what he's up to, is deeply unamused and annoyed by the facade, and simultaneously understands that the facade itself is a byproduct of Nate not actually being Rupert Mk. II. And his date kinda proves that, while he's insecure, he's not so craven and spineless that he'll humor a supermodel who's talking shit about his favorite meal.
If this episode is the last we see of Dick Nate, this would be a deeply dissatisfying endpoint. And the show I wish Ted Lasso was would have Jade see Nate genuinely do something bullying, go "fuck that," and kill any possibility of them connecting. Based on its handling of Jamie in season 2, I suspect Nate's not getting off the hook that easily. But I found his interaction with Jade plausible and a little touching, and very reminiscent of actual social dynamics I experienced in my twenties. (Though I totally get other people having less sympathetic reactions, since "pity the shithead man" is leaned on way more heavily in media than it ought to be.)
posted by Tom Hanks Cannot Be Trusted at 11:33 AM on April 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
Separately -- My one big disappointment with this episode was that the bullying storyline was resolved too quickly and easily. I immediately felt bad a performed an apology rap? That's dumb.
I was lying in bed thinking about this last night- there was not a single reference to the bullied victim by any adult. Can you imagine your bully getting the spotlight and doing an "apology rap" to you in your classroom and how shitty that would be? This scene was entirely out of pocket and the whole storyline a strange, not-believable waste of time. We already had a Kid Being Bullied bit with Phoebe that was handled much better and I don't understand why we had another where it seems neither Henry or his dad really learned anything. sigh.
posted by oneirodynia at 1:20 PM on April 14, 2023 [10 favorites]
I was lying in bed thinking about this last night- there was not a single reference to the bullied victim by any adult. Can you imagine your bully getting the spotlight and doing an "apology rap" to you in your classroom and how shitty that would be? This scene was entirely out of pocket and the whole storyline a strange, not-believable waste of time. We already had a Kid Being Bullied bit with Phoebe that was handled much better and I don't understand why we had another where it seems neither Henry or his dad really learned anything. sigh.
posted by oneirodynia at 1:20 PM on April 14, 2023 [10 favorites]
My take on the bullying storyline: it wasn’t intended to be a long term thing. It was sending Ted into a spiral, and you could see the panic attacks starting. He’s thinking he let his son down by not being there. What happens? Henry tells him “I didn’t do what you told me to do.” He absolved Dad of the sin of not trying to prepare him to be a good person, and he also took responsibility for what he did in front of everyone. What happens next? Ted takes some deep breaths, says “He’s fine, he’s fine” and you see the panic attacks go away and a smile of deep relief. Ted just beat back a panic attack as it happens. That’s a breakthrough.
posted by azpenguin at 3:04 PM on April 14, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by azpenguin at 3:04 PM on April 14, 2023 [7 favorites]
There are all kinds of things more important about Rebecca as a character and Hannah Waddingham as an actor, but let it be also noted how scorching fucking hot she is. Good GAWD.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:45 PM on April 14, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:45 PM on April 14, 2023 [5 favorites]
It's time for a halftime huddle: 'Ted Lasso' Season 3 should refocus on relationships
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:11 AM on April 15, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:11 AM on April 15, 2023 [6 favorites]
Nate is a jerk and I don't care if he improves. He's a jerk! Let's spend our energy on someone who is less jerky but could still use improvement!
posted by The corpse in the library at 1:02 PM on April 15, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by The corpse in the library at 1:02 PM on April 15, 2023 [1 favorite]
Can you imagine your bully getting the spotlight and doing an "apology rap" to you in your classroom and how shitty that would be?
They labelled it "bullying" because it fits some themes of the show, but in the end I think (hope?) we're supposed to interpret it as simply getting into a fight. Someone made Henry lose his his temper but later they made up. The alternative, that Henry is bullying some kid and his answer is "I should count to 10 before I actually hit him", would be terrible.
posted by Gary at 2:27 PM on April 15, 2023 [3 favorites]
They labelled it "bullying" because it fits some themes of the show, but in the end I think (hope?) we're supposed to interpret it as simply getting into a fight. Someone made Henry lose his his temper but later they made up. The alternative, that Henry is bullying some kid and his answer is "I should count to 10 before I actually hit him", would be terrible.
posted by Gary at 2:27 PM on April 15, 2023 [3 favorites]
mikepop: "I don't think they'll win the league (is it mathematically possible at this point?) but they'll turn things around, beat their big rival, finish in the top 5 (and not be relegated)."
It really depends on the year. Leicester City's Cinderella run (honestly, we should be calling Cinderella a “Leicester City” story by now) happened in a strange year where they could've had six or seven losses and still won the league, because the second-place team (Arsenal) mustered only 71 points.
By contrast, since then we've had two seasons where Liverpool cracked 90 points and still finished second by one point to Manchester City. That's happened twice.
But, yeah, I think it's more plausible that they win the FA Cup over City or something. At this point I'm not even sure they'll beat West Ham at home.
posted by savetheclocktower at 12:43 AM on April 16, 2023
It really depends on the year. Leicester City's Cinderella run (honestly, we should be calling Cinderella a “Leicester City” story by now) happened in a strange year where they could've had six or seven losses and still won the league, because the second-place team (Arsenal) mustered only 71 points.
By contrast, since then we've had two seasons where Liverpool cracked 90 points and still finished second by one point to Manchester City. That's happened twice.
But, yeah, I think it's more plausible that they win the FA Cup over City or something. At this point I'm not even sure they'll beat West Ham at home.
posted by savetheclocktower at 12:43 AM on April 16, 2023
Is the not-quite-right feeling of this season because Bill Lawrence and Brett Goldstein are/were giving more attention to Shrinking? Because I'm ok with the plot points in theory, but the execution of them feels lacking.
Like, take Jack for example. There have been plenty of one-episode characters and potential love interests before, but they always seemed like they were three-dimensional people even though we only get a glimpse of their lives. Like Phoebe's teacher or Rebecca's date. Whereas Jack feels like a cardboard cutout. Or Zava, who's meant to be a ridiculous character used as a catalyst for growth, much like the billionaire Edwin Akufo. But Sam actually spent time with Akufo and had conversations with him, while Jamie just seems to be frequently in the same place as Zava.
There's still plenty of good writing and the cast are all amazing. The bit where Higgins says "do I look like someone who's *comfortable* with this suggestion?" was perfect to me. Nearly all of Rebecca and Ted's interactions are spot on. The Colin plot line feels really organic to me.
But the psychic is such a contrived way to get Rebecca to a point which could have been reached just with her interactions with Sam and Rupert this season. Shandy on paper could have been all about where Keely has come from and where she's going, but just ended up being an excuse for Keely and Jack to have drinks alone. It just feels like the writing team lacking a bit of confidence, or spark, or something. They're forcing the plot with complex contrivances instead of letting the characters reflect on smaller events.
A bit like (yikes, can't believe I'm going to suggest this) the last season of Game of Thrones, where the characters were rushed through the important bits so there was more time for battle scenes and fan service. Because the people who really understood the story weren't working on it anymore.
posted by harriet vane at 12:00 AM on April 17, 2023 [3 favorites]
Like, take Jack for example. There have been plenty of one-episode characters and potential love interests before, but they always seemed like they were three-dimensional people even though we only get a glimpse of their lives. Like Phoebe's teacher or Rebecca's date. Whereas Jack feels like a cardboard cutout. Or Zava, who's meant to be a ridiculous character used as a catalyst for growth, much like the billionaire Edwin Akufo. But Sam actually spent time with Akufo and had conversations with him, while Jamie just seems to be frequently in the same place as Zava.
There's still plenty of good writing and the cast are all amazing. The bit where Higgins says "do I look like someone who's *comfortable* with this suggestion?" was perfect to me. Nearly all of Rebecca and Ted's interactions are spot on. The Colin plot line feels really organic to me.
But the psychic is such a contrived way to get Rebecca to a point which could have been reached just with her interactions with Sam and Rupert this season. Shandy on paper could have been all about where Keely has come from and where she's going, but just ended up being an excuse for Keely and Jack to have drinks alone. It just feels like the writing team lacking a bit of confidence, or spark, or something. They're forcing the plot with complex contrivances instead of letting the characters reflect on smaller events.
A bit like (yikes, can't believe I'm going to suggest this) the last season of Game of Thrones, where the characters were rushed through the important bits so there was more time for battle scenes and fan service. Because the people who really understood the story weren't working on it anymore.
posted by harriet vane at 12:00 AM on April 17, 2023 [3 favorites]
Is the not-quite-right feeling of this season because Bill Lawrence and Brett Goldstein are/were giving more attention to Shrinking?
Thank you! I didn't realise Shrinking was from these two. This makes a lot of sense. Season three does feel like it doesn't have Bill's guiding hand in the way it used to.
posted by crossoverman at 7:20 PM on April 17, 2023 [2 favorites]
Thank you! I didn't realise Shrinking was from these two. This makes a lot of sense. Season three does feel like it doesn't have Bill's guiding hand in the way it used to.
posted by crossoverman at 7:20 PM on April 17, 2023 [2 favorites]
Separately -- My one big disappointment with this episode was that the bullying storyline was resolved too quickly and easily. I immediately felt bad a performed an apology rap? That's dumb. They had the opportunity to explore that Henry was suppressing feelings of anger because his father left him to go work in England. It could have set up a parallel with Ted's own suppressed negative feelings, and how there is a healthy way to communicate negative feelings without resorting to violence, having a panic attack, bullying someone else, etc. Major missed opportunity.
I feel like it's not really resolved though, it seemed to me that Ted was realizing his advice was bad and ultimately damaging and Henry was showing both extreme's that this season has alluded to - toxic expressions of anger vs repression. I'm sure this is going to come up again soon.
Coming into this episode I really couldn't figure Zava out. He was supposed to be a Prima Donna that left a trail of destruction in the dressing rooms of all the clubs he left behind, but all his comments were...wholesome and encouraging ? E.g. addressing Will first, pep talks to the team etc, with that juxtaposed with the narcissism. His sudden retirement leaves me baffled as to what his role really is (was?) this season.
I thought the Nate/Jade interaction would've been so much better if they'd left it at her smiling at Nate defending the restaurant, instead of having her come join him at the end.
It was obviously important that they cut to Colin during Ted's speech when he said 'shame'.
I get why people are saying it was a bad episode, but I feel like it's just setting it up as a turning point of the season and I'm happy to still trust the writers and see how it plays out.
posted by TwoWordReview at 1:40 PM on April 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
I feel like it's not really resolved though, it seemed to me that Ted was realizing his advice was bad and ultimately damaging and Henry was showing both extreme's that this season has alluded to - toxic expressions of anger vs repression. I'm sure this is going to come up again soon.
Coming into this episode I really couldn't figure Zava out. He was supposed to be a Prima Donna that left a trail of destruction in the dressing rooms of all the clubs he left behind, but all his comments were...wholesome and encouraging ? E.g. addressing Will first, pep talks to the team etc, with that juxtaposed with the narcissism. His sudden retirement leaves me baffled as to what his role really is (was?) this season.
I thought the Nate/Jade interaction would've been so much better if they'd left it at her smiling at Nate defending the restaurant, instead of having her come join him at the end.
It was obviously important that they cut to Colin during Ted's speech when he said 'shame'.
I get why people are saying it was a bad episode, but I feel like it's just setting it up as a turning point of the season and I'm happy to still trust the writers and see how it plays out.
posted by TwoWordReview at 1:40 PM on April 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
Presenting the Ted Lasso AFC Richmond Results Tracker
posted by jenfullmoon at 2:57 PM on April 18, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by jenfullmoon at 2:57 PM on April 18, 2023 [4 favorites]
Before I watch the next episode, I just rewatched Teds speech, and I don’t know how they’re going to explain the Shite in Nining Armor comment, but the episode being titled ‘signs’ and Teds speech being about how it’s ‘just a sign’ and doesn’t really mean anything says to me that the psychic stuff is bullshit, especially with the cut to a Rebecca on the ‘belief of hope’ line
posted by TwoWordReview at 9:55 PM on April 18, 2023
posted by TwoWordReview at 9:55 PM on April 18, 2023
"I thought the Nate/Jade interaction would've been so much better if they'd left it at her smiling at Nate defending the restaurant, instead of having her come join him at the end."
This! All I needed on that plot was for her to warm to him a bit, she's not a reward for good behaviour.
In light of the next episode, I'm still feeling like this one has a feeling of being contrived and disjointed rather than organic and cohesive. But you can see what they're trying to do with it, even if it didn't land quite right.
posted by harriet vane at 6:28 PM on April 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
This! All I needed on that plot was for her to warm to him a bit, she's not a reward for good behaviour.
In light of the next episode, I'm still feeling like this one has a feeling of being contrived and disjointed rather than organic and cohesive. But you can see what they're trying to do with it, even if it didn't land quite right.
posted by harriet vane at 6:28 PM on April 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
Nice to see him stave off the panic attack, seems like a significant development buried in this episode.
I thought this was the big moment of the episode but it was sure buried in a mess of other stuff. Ted finally getting some control of his attacks should have been a huge thing.
Shandy tipping very quickly all the way from "has some great ideas and occasional very bad judgment" to "complete nightmare" is the most boring way that could've played out, to me.
Same here, and I didn't really love the Jack/Keeley thing either just because they haven't developed Jack much as a character. The bisexuality didn't surprise me at all, I agree that that was well established.
Most importantly, I don't know if it's a Covid thing or a Let's-set-up-a-spinoff thing, but I really am not enjoying "The Keeley Show" and its complete disconnection from Ted Lasso. I care about Keeley but the whole thing including her could lift right out of the season and make all of the episodes tighter.
(If we have to have a spinoff, can it be the one where Roy Kent and Trent Crimm team up to solve crimes?)
I actually liked Nate's scenes, somehow I'm more sympathetic toward him now. Jade didn't have any time for him at all when all he did was try to show off how cool he was, but this time he showed some vulnerability and she saw a tiny bit of a real person in there. (I don't think we have to criticize the writers for offering her up as a "reward" just yet, all she did was sit for a minute and talk to him.)
I don't really know where Rebecca's plot is going either. The psychic thing is silly. They better not be shipping Rebecca and Ted because there's absolutely no development of that relationship.
I also have no idea what happened with Zava. I'm not sure the character had any purpose at all. I guess he motivated Jamie to be better at Football but that could have happened without Zava.
I trust the writers but I do really feel like we're in the "dark forest" here.
posted by mmoncur at 7:51 PM on April 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
I thought this was the big moment of the episode but it was sure buried in a mess of other stuff. Ted finally getting some control of his attacks should have been a huge thing.
Shandy tipping very quickly all the way from "has some great ideas and occasional very bad judgment" to "complete nightmare" is the most boring way that could've played out, to me.
Same here, and I didn't really love the Jack/Keeley thing either just because they haven't developed Jack much as a character. The bisexuality didn't surprise me at all, I agree that that was well established.
Most importantly, I don't know if it's a Covid thing or a Let's-set-up-a-spinoff thing, but I really am not enjoying "The Keeley Show" and its complete disconnection from Ted Lasso. I care about Keeley but the whole thing including her could lift right out of the season and make all of the episodes tighter.
(If we have to have a spinoff, can it be the one where Roy Kent and Trent Crimm team up to solve crimes?)
I actually liked Nate's scenes, somehow I'm more sympathetic toward him now. Jade didn't have any time for him at all when all he did was try to show off how cool he was, but this time he showed some vulnerability and she saw a tiny bit of a real person in there. (I don't think we have to criticize the writers for offering her up as a "reward" just yet, all she did was sit for a minute and talk to him.)
I don't really know where Rebecca's plot is going either. The psychic thing is silly. They better not be shipping Rebecca and Ted because there's absolutely no development of that relationship.
I also have no idea what happened with Zava. I'm not sure the character had any purpose at all. I guess he motivated Jamie to be better at Football but that could have happened without Zava.
I trust the writers but I do really feel like we're in the "dark forest" here.
posted by mmoncur at 7:51 PM on April 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
I have to admit, I loved Shandy trying to pull a Jerry Maguire and failing utterly - especially when she actually somehow got the one guy ready to come with her and she trashed him. Shandy was fun all around, every episode, and while I hope we don't see her again (it was just a hair over the perfect amount for me with the lamb thing, and she wasn't even there for it), I still loved her.
Other than that, I hated every single thing about this episode. Everybody felt like a caricature of themselves. If Henry's bullying was a plot point, then tell us what he did and why and how Ted felt - and don't glamorize Roy's torture scenario far beyond anything we know about Roy. Half that joke was funny. Then when he went for the repetition of all the beating joke, it was - like the pee dribble joke, and the three times repeating the shite in nining armor "joke", and the "here's a bag of shit" joke - it just felt like your writers room is showing.
The Keely / Jack thing seemed inevitable to me - there was so much clear chemistry and smoldering looks between them over the last two episodes. But it still managed to feel forced an unnecessary in how they did it. Plus Jack's her boss. At least she hit the privacy window - but then they showed their silhouettes? So there's no actual privacy and the whole thing is a farce?
The next one has a hell of a lot of redeeming to do, for me.
posted by Mchelly at 9:15 AM on April 24, 2023 [3 favorites]
Other than that, I hated every single thing about this episode. Everybody felt like a caricature of themselves. If Henry's bullying was a plot point, then tell us what he did and why and how Ted felt - and don't glamorize Roy's torture scenario far beyond anything we know about Roy. Half that joke was funny. Then when he went for the repetition of all the beating joke, it was - like the pee dribble joke, and the three times repeating the shite in nining armor "joke", and the "here's a bag of shit" joke - it just felt like your writers room is showing.
The Keely / Jack thing seemed inevitable to me - there was so much clear chemistry and smoldering looks between them over the last two episodes. But it still managed to feel forced an unnecessary in how they did it. Plus Jack's her boss. At least she hit the privacy window - but then they showed their silhouettes? So there's no actual privacy and the whole thing is a farce?
The next one has a hell of a lot of redeeming to do, for me.
posted by Mchelly at 9:15 AM on April 24, 2023 [3 favorites]
This episode was a rough one for sure, but not a bad one, in my opinion. Then again, the Nate stuff actually worked for me, which makes a big difference.
Rupert basically "rewarded" him with Anastasia in the last episode, something that Nate had no idea how to respond to. Then, Rupert's assistant is all "hey, you're supposed to call her" (six weeks later, I guess?) and so Nate does so, but is clearly still nonplussed about the whole thing (and his "I didn't want to seem too forward" line implies heavily that he didn't try anything at all with Anastasia at Bones & Honey. Honestly I want the answer for why Anastasia still even remembered Nate's name that much later, but whatever) and so he does what I think is a very cool thing there: he takes her to his favorite restaurant. Which, predictably, is way too low-rent for Anastasia, and when they arrive he's immediately back in "trying to impress Jade" mode, which I have to watch through my fucking fingers because it's so cringe, but when Anastasia is talking shit about the place and Nate kindly, positively, defends it, my heart grew a lot of sizes for that little shitheel.
In season one, though the seeds for a lot of bad shit to come were sown in Nate's pre-game roast at Everton, one other thing that came through is that when Nate is at his best it's because he can see a lot of what's going on with other people. Then in season two he was so obsessed with himself that he couldn't see that 1.) Ted was going through his own shit that was causing the perceived distance between them, 2.) Keeley definitely wasn't romantically interested in him, and 3.) that Rupert is not the answer to his prayers.
One thing I try to think a lot about in terms of story theory is the three-act structure in terms of thesis-antithesis-synthesis. Basically, in Act 1, a character is who they've always been, more or less, with the tools they've learned to use throughout living that way: thesis. Then, something knocks everything off-balance and throws them into a new world that they're utterly unprepared for: antithesis. Then, in Act 3, they incorporate new tools from this new world into what they were in the beginning, allowing them to become better and to triumph in the end: synthesis. (Pixar movies are really obvious about this once you know to look for it, but it's pretty standard across most three-act stories that end more or less happily.)
This season we're seeing Nate enter synthesis. Where he was blaming Ted for abandoning him, he now is trying to get up the nerve to apologize. Where he saw Rupert as his lifeline to greatness, the season is now pointing to him understanding how mechanically Rupert is manipulating him. And I get the feeling from this episode that the embarrassment from the Keeley thing has stuck with him (good!) but when Jade brings the baklava to the table, he's not trying to impress her, nor is he stammering and trying to run off in mortification. Anastasia left because she couldn't bear the restaurant. Nate defended the restaurant (which Jade clearly read as defending her as well, which I think works) and saw through Anastasia's "friend with the flu" bullshit but didn't beat himself up over it. Basically he made the decision that something about himself was worth defending just because it matters to him, and he wasn't a dick about it, but he stood firm, and so when Jade arrived, he was just honest and open (and even joked on himself!) and it was like coming up for air. Nate can be confident enough to be vulnerable, and Jade will sit down and talk with him.
Maybe it's treating Jade like a reward. I get that reading. But to me it read like him finally making a connection with somebody that felt human. It felt like synthesis.
The Keeley/Jack/Shandy stuff was fun enough (yes, Shandy took a hard turn into Jean-Ralphio territory there, but it was at least funny. What kills me is that Shandy showed some good skills over her episodes, all of them related to directing shoots. Why the fuck wasn't that the job she was hired for? She clearly never should have been on client-interaction.) Agreed that Keeley has been anything but shy about being bi from season 1, and the tension between her and Jack was palpable from Jack's introduction. I still think it's a bad idea because, you know, Jack's the boss. But I'm glad they got to have some fun (this was my feeling about Rebecca and Sam as well.)
Zava was fun but I'm glad to see the back of him. He was sucking up all the oxygen not just for Jamie to step up and be the leader he's trying to be, but also for Ted (who's not trying to step up but who needs to, and Zava's empty aphorisms - and the wins he brought - gave Ted cover to stay back in his office and do jack-shit.)
I don't think the show is leading us towards Ted/Rebecca because I haven't seen the slightest lick of romantic chemistry there. Not an iota. I just really, really don't see that one happening.
Agreed on keeping Henry an off-screen presence, if that. I don't want to blame the kid, so I'm going to blame writers for assuming that since Phoebe (a cute little girl with a British accent) can pull off precocious dialog, than so can the little boy with the American accent. It's not working. And it makes me mad at a plot pushing Ted to go back and be an active father because I feel like this kid doesn't deserve him as much as our other characters do. Which is objectively fucked up.
The psychic stuff is whatever. I don't like psychic plots as a device (they remind me of that David Cross bit about the triptych painting of a magic act in the Seattle airport. The "how'd he do that?!" feeling is kind of lost when, you know, it's a narrative show.) But I don't know where they're going with it yet, so it gets a hesitant pass from me for now.
posted by Navelgazer at 9:16 PM on May 17, 2023 [2 favorites]
Rupert basically "rewarded" him with Anastasia in the last episode, something that Nate had no idea how to respond to. Then, Rupert's assistant is all "hey, you're supposed to call her" (six weeks later, I guess?) and so Nate does so, but is clearly still nonplussed about the whole thing (and his "I didn't want to seem too forward" line implies heavily that he didn't try anything at all with Anastasia at Bones & Honey. Honestly I want the answer for why Anastasia still even remembered Nate's name that much later, but whatever) and so he does what I think is a very cool thing there: he takes her to his favorite restaurant. Which, predictably, is way too low-rent for Anastasia, and when they arrive he's immediately back in "trying to impress Jade" mode, which I have to watch through my fucking fingers because it's so cringe, but when Anastasia is talking shit about the place and Nate kindly, positively, defends it, my heart grew a lot of sizes for that little shitheel.
In season one, though the seeds for a lot of bad shit to come were sown in Nate's pre-game roast at Everton, one other thing that came through is that when Nate is at his best it's because he can see a lot of what's going on with other people. Then in season two he was so obsessed with himself that he couldn't see that 1.) Ted was going through his own shit that was causing the perceived distance between them, 2.) Keeley definitely wasn't romantically interested in him, and 3.) that Rupert is not the answer to his prayers.
One thing I try to think a lot about in terms of story theory is the three-act structure in terms of thesis-antithesis-synthesis. Basically, in Act 1, a character is who they've always been, more or less, with the tools they've learned to use throughout living that way: thesis. Then, something knocks everything off-balance and throws them into a new world that they're utterly unprepared for: antithesis. Then, in Act 3, they incorporate new tools from this new world into what they were in the beginning, allowing them to become better and to triumph in the end: synthesis. (Pixar movies are really obvious about this once you know to look for it, but it's pretty standard across most three-act stories that end more or less happily.)
This season we're seeing Nate enter synthesis. Where he was blaming Ted for abandoning him, he now is trying to get up the nerve to apologize. Where he saw Rupert as his lifeline to greatness, the season is now pointing to him understanding how mechanically Rupert is manipulating him. And I get the feeling from this episode that the embarrassment from the Keeley thing has stuck with him (good!) but when Jade brings the baklava to the table, he's not trying to impress her, nor is he stammering and trying to run off in mortification. Anastasia left because she couldn't bear the restaurant. Nate defended the restaurant (which Jade clearly read as defending her as well, which I think works) and saw through Anastasia's "friend with the flu" bullshit but didn't beat himself up over it. Basically he made the decision that something about himself was worth defending just because it matters to him, and he wasn't a dick about it, but he stood firm, and so when Jade arrived, he was just honest and open (and even joked on himself!) and it was like coming up for air. Nate can be confident enough to be vulnerable, and Jade will sit down and talk with him.
Maybe it's treating Jade like a reward. I get that reading. But to me it read like him finally making a connection with somebody that felt human. It felt like synthesis.
The Keeley/Jack/Shandy stuff was fun enough (yes, Shandy took a hard turn into Jean-Ralphio territory there, but it was at least funny. What kills me is that Shandy showed some good skills over her episodes, all of them related to directing shoots. Why the fuck wasn't that the job she was hired for? She clearly never should have been on client-interaction.) Agreed that Keeley has been anything but shy about being bi from season 1, and the tension between her and Jack was palpable from Jack's introduction. I still think it's a bad idea because, you know, Jack's the boss. But I'm glad they got to have some fun (this was my feeling about Rebecca and Sam as well.)
Zava was fun but I'm glad to see the back of him. He was sucking up all the oxygen not just for Jamie to step up and be the leader he's trying to be, but also for Ted (who's not trying to step up but who needs to, and Zava's empty aphorisms - and the wins he brought - gave Ted cover to stay back in his office and do jack-shit.)
I don't think the show is leading us towards Ted/Rebecca because I haven't seen the slightest lick of romantic chemistry there. Not an iota. I just really, really don't see that one happening.
Agreed on keeping Henry an off-screen presence, if that. I don't want to blame the kid, so I'm going to blame writers for assuming that since Phoebe (a cute little girl with a British accent) can pull off precocious dialog, than so can the little boy with the American accent. It's not working. And it makes me mad at a plot pushing Ted to go back and be an active father because I feel like this kid doesn't deserve him as much as our other characters do. Which is objectively fucked up.
The psychic stuff is whatever. I don't like psychic plots as a device (they remind me of that David Cross bit about the triptych painting of a magic act in the Seattle airport. The "how'd he do that?!" feeling is kind of lost when, you know, it's a narrative show.) But I don't know where they're going with it yet, so it gets a hesitant pass from me for now.
posted by Navelgazer at 9:16 PM on May 17, 2023 [2 favorites]
Having been on the receiving end of some pretty rude and racist behaviour from customer-facing staff, I've never thought of Jade as being bullying or racist – just professional.
My read on it, up until this episode was that they would rather have an empty table than put a brown person on display. At first you could suggest maybe enforcing shitty policy was part of the job, but even after the owner basically invents a VIP list just to put his name on it, she resists. Probably at this point is is personal, but it does remove that angle. On the other hand, they share baclava 30 minutes later so it can't be that personal, or that racist?
Also, I don't get Anastasia's character all that much. She was disappointed he didn't ask for her number, but also not terribly excited about Nathan at all? Is the subtext that she is a call girl drumming up business? But also a super famous model?
Now that the Believe sign is torn into smaller pieces, I'm even more sure that it will be taped back together and used as the cover of Trent's book.
"Are you familiar with the Japanese art of Kintsugi?"
Shandy on paper could have been all about where Keely has come from and where she's going, but just ended up being an excuse for Keely and Jack to have drinks alone.
Keeley, having competed the first milestone on the "bad business ethics" speedrun, is now moving onto "sleep with your boss/VC." After that comes breach of confidentiality, then securities fraud. If Barbara has any wits about her, the show will end with her starting the business that Shandy only made empty promises (threats, really) about.
posted by pwnguin at 9:47 PM on May 29, 2023 [1 favorite]
My read on it, up until this episode was that they would rather have an empty table than put a brown person on display. At first you could suggest maybe enforcing shitty policy was part of the job, but even after the owner basically invents a VIP list just to put his name on it, she resists. Probably at this point is is personal, but it does remove that angle. On the other hand, they share baclava 30 minutes later so it can't be that personal, or that racist?
Also, I don't get Anastasia's character all that much. She was disappointed he didn't ask for her number, but also not terribly excited about Nathan at all? Is the subtext that she is a call girl drumming up business? But also a super famous model?
Now that the Believe sign is torn into smaller pieces, I'm even more sure that it will be taped back together and used as the cover of Trent's book.
"Are you familiar with the Japanese art of Kintsugi?"
Shandy on paper could have been all about where Keely has come from and where she's going, but just ended up being an excuse for Keely and Jack to have drinks alone.
Keeley, having competed the first milestone on the "bad business ethics" speedrun, is now moving onto "sleep with your boss/VC." After that comes breach of confidentiality, then securities fraud. If Barbara has any wits about her, the show will end with her starting the business that Shandy only made empty promises (threats, really) about.
posted by pwnguin at 9:47 PM on May 29, 2023 [1 favorite]
Also, I don't get Anastasia's character all that much. She was disappointed he didn't ask for her number, but also not terribly excited about Nathan at all? Is the subtext that she is a call girl drumming up business? But also a super famous model?
Ok, here's my attempt to headcanon more humanity in this character than the writers bothered to:
Anastasia is used to wealthy men pursuing her and taking her to high-end places on dates, and she views this as a reflection on her value. She gets introduced to Nate, senses some interest, and assumes that because she met him at Bones and Honey, and because he was introduced by Rupert, that Nate understands how to court a supermodel.
Sometimes these wealthy men are very busy, so they need a little nudge to remind them, "Oh yeah I met this supermodel that I'm interested in." Hence the phone call to Ms. Kakes, who can be trusted to word the question of whether Nate's interested in a way that's most flattering to Nate.
Also, because she's a supermodel, her approach to food is very different from Nate's. Nate can gorge himself on saganaki and baklava and gain 50 pounds, and no one's going to say he can't coach football. If Anastasia gains 5 pounds, it's an existential crisis that her career might never recover from. And this means going out to dinner has to be about more than just the food for her--she has to be able to enjoy the ambiance, and take photos of her food and post it to Instagram, see the other celebrities at the restaurant, that's at least half the fun of going out for her. What difference does it make to her if Taste of Athens serves an enormous plate of baklava, if she can only have one bite of it? Premier League coaches make a lot of money, so from her perspective, he's being a cheapskate by not taking her to someplace more upscale.
She lets Nate know that this isn't her scene. Any other guy she has dated would have apologized and taken her to some high-end place with tiny beautiful Instagram-able plates of food. Nate doesn't even suggest he'd be open to that on the next date. He just defends the honor of the restaurant.
It sucks that she makes an obvious excuse to Nate instead of saying, "I don't think we want the same things" but I think it's reasonable to want to bail on the date after that conversation.
posted by creepygirl at 12:31 PM on May 30, 2023 [6 favorites]
Ok, here's my attempt to headcanon more humanity in this character than the writers bothered to:
Anastasia is used to wealthy men pursuing her and taking her to high-end places on dates, and she views this as a reflection on her value. She gets introduced to Nate, senses some interest, and assumes that because she met him at Bones and Honey, and because he was introduced by Rupert, that Nate understands how to court a supermodel.
Sometimes these wealthy men are very busy, so they need a little nudge to remind them, "Oh yeah I met this supermodel that I'm interested in." Hence the phone call to Ms. Kakes, who can be trusted to word the question of whether Nate's interested in a way that's most flattering to Nate.
Also, because she's a supermodel, her approach to food is very different from Nate's. Nate can gorge himself on saganaki and baklava and gain 50 pounds, and no one's going to say he can't coach football. If Anastasia gains 5 pounds, it's an existential crisis that her career might never recover from. And this means going out to dinner has to be about more than just the food for her--she has to be able to enjoy the ambiance, and take photos of her food and post it to Instagram, see the other celebrities at the restaurant, that's at least half the fun of going out for her. What difference does it make to her if Taste of Athens serves an enormous plate of baklava, if she can only have one bite of it? Premier League coaches make a lot of money, so from her perspective, he's being a cheapskate by not taking her to someplace more upscale.
She lets Nate know that this isn't her scene. Any other guy she has dated would have apologized and taken her to some high-end place with tiny beautiful Instagram-able plates of food. Nate doesn't even suggest he'd be open to that on the next date. He just defends the honor of the restaurant.
It sucks that she makes an obvious excuse to Nate instead of saying, "I don't think we want the same things" but I think it's reasonable to want to bail on the date after that conversation.
posted by creepygirl at 12:31 PM on May 30, 2023 [6 favorites]
Putting aside the horribly-written stuff with Jade, it’s interesting that Nate handled himself more or less like a normal human adult during the date. He talks about himself (as one does on a first date) in a way that’s not toxic, defends something that’s important to him in a way that isn’t overbearing, and gets sad – not angry – when he’s rejected in about the rudest way imaginable.
[A better capstone to the scene would have been for Jade to walk over and say “That was rough. You didn’t deserve that…. come on, let’s go over to the bar, share that ridiculous plate of Baklava with everyone, and I’ll pour a strong drink.” Nate deserves a sympathetic bartender here – not a forced and unearned romantic interest]
posted by schmod at 5:51 AM on July 2, 2023 [1 favorite]
[A better capstone to the scene would have been for Jade to walk over and say “That was rough. You didn’t deserve that…. come on, let’s go over to the bar, share that ridiculous plate of Baklava with everyone, and I’ll pour a strong drink.” Nate deserves a sympathetic bartender here – not a forced and unearned romantic interest]
posted by schmod at 5:51 AM on July 2, 2023 [1 favorite]
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Hope this is the episode where they turn it around and it reverts back to old form with Ted more implicated with the team and everybody gels again (many characters seems to be on their own track this season).
Good speech at the end.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 11:21 PM on April 11, 2023 [2 favorites]