Daredevil: Into the Ring
April 10, 2015 9:38 AM - Season 1, Episode 1 - Subscribe
Matt Murdock's vigilante crime fighting and his new law practice find equally dangerous challenges in a murder case tied to a corporate crime syndicate.
Bring on the binge watching!
Bring on the binge watching!
Seriously. I had my misgivings about the tonal shift between this show and the rest of the MCU - the first 2 episodes are 50% brutal violence and 50% terrified children crying for their daddies - but taken as its own thing it's pretty good.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 10:30 AM on April 10, 2015
posted by robocop is bleeding at 10:30 AM on April 10, 2015
I did not expect that a comic book show would satisfy my Banshee itch for bad people getting the shit righteously kicked out of them. But it totally does.
By the way, if the kind of hyperkinetic, ultraviolent fighting on this show grabs your attention, good news! Your favorite show is actually Banshee. Start watching it immediately.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 12:11 PM on April 10, 2015 [7 favorites]
By the way, if the kind of hyperkinetic, ultraviolent fighting on this show grabs your attention, good news! Your favorite show is actually Banshee. Start watching it immediately.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 12:11 PM on April 10, 2015 [7 favorites]
I have just watched the first episode so far. A lot of it felt like really heavily trodden ground but I like the look and feel of the show and hey, That Guy seems to be doing a good Daredevil. And I really like Daredevil so I'm sure I'll watch the rest.
posted by selfnoise at 12:57 PM on April 10, 2015
posted by selfnoise at 12:57 PM on April 10, 2015
Well, since Banshee was invoked, I have no choice but to watch it now.
posted by Ik ben afgesneden at 1:29 PM on April 10, 2015
posted by Ik ben afgesneden at 1:29 PM on April 10, 2015
Yeah, having watched this and the next episode I'm pretty happy with the show, it's exceeded my (admittedly low) expectations. The guy playing Foggy does a good job and looks the part, and they use him well as comic relief. I'm guessing Charlie Cox is about to go from "that Irish dude from Boardwalk Empire" to "actor Charlie Cox" (or at least "that dude from Daredevil"). I also like that they're taking their time about introducing Kingpin and anyone with superpowers.
posted by whir at 3:48 PM on April 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by whir at 3:48 PM on April 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
What it does extremely well is that it almost completely avoids being groanworthy, which is what takes me out of something like an Arrow (not to keep picking on that show, but it's a familiar example of the type). No characters trying too hard to look badass and coming off ridiculous, no horribly clunky dialogue, it respects its audience wrt picking up Matt's powers and motivations without being too ham-handed. It never looks like it's trying too hard. I really like that about this show, it may not be the epitome of a drama or crime story or superhero tale but it's incredibly solid, they had a vision and they put the work in and paid attention to detail and it shows.
posted by jason_steakums at 4:26 PM on April 10, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by jason_steakums at 4:26 PM on April 10, 2015 [5 favorites]
I have to say, I was skeptical that Marvel could do grimdark well given a) how different that is from most of their movies and b) the fact that DC, IMO, have failed to do it well with Arrow. I was only planning on watching ep 1, but I ended up almost three eps in a row.
I find the flashbacks to his dad overly tedious and predictable, and frankly I've had enough of single useless-dads-with-hearts-of-gold bringing up sons, but that's made up by the solid fighting scenes, and more importantly, by the very respectable acting, casting, and direction. I am impressed by how it's obviously situated in the MCU without namedropping Iron Man or aliens every other scene. Plus it's been a while since I've watched a legal drama and I kind of like that side of it.
Although from what I've heard of The Good Wife, maybe I should just be watching that instead.
posted by adrianhon at 5:05 PM on April 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
I find the flashbacks to his dad overly tedious and predictable, and frankly I've had enough of single useless-dads-with-hearts-of-gold bringing up sons, but that's made up by the solid fighting scenes, and more importantly, by the very respectable acting, casting, and direction. I am impressed by how it's obviously situated in the MCU without namedropping Iron Man or aliens every other scene. Plus it's been a while since I've watched a legal drama and I kind of like that side of it.
Although from what I've heard of The Good Wife, maybe I should just be watching that instead.
posted by adrianhon at 5:05 PM on April 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
DC, IMO, have failed to do it well with Arrow
Part of it, I think, is that Murdock gets the crap beat out of him even if he wins. On Arrow, Queen ends up with an artfully cut lip at worst. Showing the cost is a big part of Daredevil - what Arrow does with furtive looks between beautiful people, Daredevil does with FURIOUS PUNCHING.
I joked to a friend while watching this episode that, if they tacked on a horrible sludge rock soundtrack, this could be Zach Snyder at work, but after watching a few more, there is no way that Snyder would let his cherished heroes get that beat up.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 5:36 PM on April 10, 2015 [6 favorites]
Part of it, I think, is that Murdock gets the crap beat out of him even if he wins. On Arrow, Queen ends up with an artfully cut lip at worst. Showing the cost is a big part of Daredevil - what Arrow does with furtive looks between beautiful people, Daredevil does with FURIOUS PUNCHING.
I joked to a friend while watching this episode that, if they tacked on a horrible sludge rock soundtrack, this could be Zach Snyder at work, but after watching a few more, there is no way that Snyder would let his cherished heroes get that beat up.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 5:36 PM on April 10, 2015 [6 favorites]
I really, really like the Netflix series format for Marvel stuff, to the point that I kind of wish it was all done this way. I mean, yeah, it wouldn't be the thing it is without big blockbuster movies - this series wouldn't be what it is without the success of those movies - but when I think about the upcoming solo hero movies, or the first Cap movie where it felt like he spent all of an hour in World War II, and what they could do with this much time to build the world versus 2 hours and change, I'd rather have a series.
posted by jason_steakums at 5:53 PM on April 10, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by jason_steakums at 5:53 PM on April 10, 2015 [6 favorites]
I've watched the first two episodes and enjoyed them immensely.
One thing I'm really liking is how visually, thematically, and tonally constrained this world is. The Avengers gallop all over the planet. Spider-Man faces threats that could obliterate all of New York City. Matt Murdock, the Man Without Fear, is a blind dude with a stick just trying to clean up his neighborhood. This isn't epic, this is Mickey Spillane.
But it's inevitable to draw comparisons to Arrow, right? Guy with daddy issues saves city from baddies and all. And really, squinting at it, Oliver Queen's relationship with his father would seem to afford writers a much greater canvas to work on than Murdock's; the elder Queen was a complex man whose story is fraught with themes of privilege and patriarchy and noblesse oblige and all sorts of meaty issues to be chewed over season after season. Battlin' Jack Murdock was a good-hearted mook, a tomato can with a heart of gold. Period, the end.
I'm OK with this. (And I could use a few less daddy-flashbacks. OK, we get it.) Because, I think, I'm a Marvel fanboy and I see what they're doing here. Before Batman was The Dark Knight, he did some pretty embarrassing stuff. Then along came Frank Miller and the Broody Batman we all love moped forth from the shadows. Well, the book Miller was doing, that got him the chance to redo Batman? It was Daredevil. It was a violent, cruel comic book that set the tone for a decade of comics good and bad. It was steeped in darkness and it was a composition of broken frames, jagged cuts, and cinematic action that zoomed all over the page. Yet it told a relatively small story.
And Arrow might as well be called We Couldn't Get The License For Batman. But Arrow is still trying to be an epic. And it's silly. Sometimes. Daredevil is avoiding silly, somehow, so far. I just hope it maintains the same scope and focus, because that's a huge part of what's making it work.
The guy playing Foggy is great and I will pay money to watch Deborah Ann Woll chew gum and read the newspaper. I'm liking how thus far the Kingpin is just a looming threat. And there's enough fan service to keep me happy (Murdock's last fight? Crusher Creel! That terribly civilized little crook chuckling over how much money he'll make rebuilding Hell's Kitchen? Leland Owlsley, The Owl!), but not so much that it seems like the writers are standing there winking at me.
I was not expecting much, frankly. But I'm happy to be so pleasantly surprised.
posted by BitterOldPunk at 5:55 PM on April 10, 2015 [6 favorites]
One thing I'm really liking is how visually, thematically, and tonally constrained this world is. The Avengers gallop all over the planet. Spider-Man faces threats that could obliterate all of New York City. Matt Murdock, the Man Without Fear, is a blind dude with a stick just trying to clean up his neighborhood. This isn't epic, this is Mickey Spillane.
But it's inevitable to draw comparisons to Arrow, right? Guy with daddy issues saves city from baddies and all. And really, squinting at it, Oliver Queen's relationship with his father would seem to afford writers a much greater canvas to work on than Murdock's; the elder Queen was a complex man whose story is fraught with themes of privilege and patriarchy and noblesse oblige and all sorts of meaty issues to be chewed over season after season. Battlin' Jack Murdock was a good-hearted mook, a tomato can with a heart of gold. Period, the end.
I'm OK with this. (And I could use a few less daddy-flashbacks. OK, we get it.) Because, I think, I'm a Marvel fanboy and I see what they're doing here. Before Batman was The Dark Knight, he did some pretty embarrassing stuff. Then along came Frank Miller and the Broody Batman we all love moped forth from the shadows. Well, the book Miller was doing, that got him the chance to redo Batman? It was Daredevil. It was a violent, cruel comic book that set the tone for a decade of comics good and bad. It was steeped in darkness and it was a composition of broken frames, jagged cuts, and cinematic action that zoomed all over the page. Yet it told a relatively small story.
And Arrow might as well be called We Couldn't Get The License For Batman. But Arrow is still trying to be an epic. And it's silly. Sometimes. Daredevil is avoiding silly, somehow, so far. I just hope it maintains the same scope and focus, because that's a huge part of what's making it work.
The guy playing Foggy is great and I will pay money to watch Deborah Ann Woll chew gum and read the newspaper. I'm liking how thus far the Kingpin is just a looming threat. And there's enough fan service to keep me happy (Murdock's last fight? Crusher Creel! That terribly civilized little crook chuckling over how much money he'll make rebuilding Hell's Kitchen? Leland Owlsley, The Owl!), but not so much that it seems like the writers are standing there winking at me.
I was not expecting much, frankly. But I'm happy to be so pleasantly surprised.
posted by BitterOldPunk at 5:55 PM on April 10, 2015 [6 favorites]
With all the skyline shots, I wish they had worked in a blurry Stark tower at some point.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 6:00 PM on April 10, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by paper chromatographologist at 6:00 PM on April 10, 2015 [5 favorites]
My husband, my faithful comic reference guide, says that what he is loving so far about the show is what he has always loved about the character: Daredevil doesn't always win. Sometimes he gets his ass handed to him but he never stops and he never quits.
posted by Kitteh at 6:01 PM on April 10, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 6:01 PM on April 10, 2015 [4 favorites]
My husband, my faithful comic reference guide, says that what he is loving so far about the show is what he has always loved about the character: Daredevil doesn't always win. Sometimes he gets his ass handed to him but he never stops and he never quits.
Sometimes it's less "gets his ass handed to him" and more "Book of Job with ninjas" in that every aspect of Matt Murdock's life conspires to crush him mentally, physically, emotionally, financially, professionally and spiritually. Which, it doesn't seem like this show's quite going there, or at least it's not setting the tone for that early on, but it's always a possibility with Daredevil.
posted by jason_steakums at 6:12 PM on April 10, 2015 [6 favorites]
Sometimes it's less "gets his ass handed to him" and more "Book of Job with ninjas" in that every aspect of Matt Murdock's life conspires to crush him mentally, physically, emotionally, financially, professionally and spiritually. Which, it doesn't seem like this show's quite going there, or at least it's not setting the tone for that early on, but it's always a possibility with Daredevil.
posted by jason_steakums at 6:12 PM on April 10, 2015 [6 favorites]
Fair play, but it's refreshing when you always expect the superhero to emerge triumphant.
posted by Kitteh at 6:17 PM on April 10, 2015
posted by Kitteh at 6:17 PM on April 10, 2015
Loved the first episode, watching the second now. This is so much better than Agents of Shield (although I've only seen the first season) which I know is constrained by being on broadcast TV but is just so bland in comparison.
posted by octothorpe at 6:33 PM on April 10, 2015
posted by octothorpe at 6:33 PM on April 10, 2015
This is my first FanFare post, so forgive me if I speak out of turn about the second episode, but if there's a better second episode to any TV series, ever, maaaan...
Nelson and Murdock! Foggy's name comes first for a reason.
1) Cast perfectly. Awkward and stilted at the beginning, at the end of Ep2, he's just who he is. Awesome.
2) Foggy is smarter and more competent and as humane in very subtle ways as Matt.
Battlin' Jack! One of those Dads who's convinced he's the worst human being to bring up a kid ever, while moving heaven and earth for Matt. Hits pretty close to home for every dad. Wow, that's intense.
Claire! They have an unspoken agreement. We're not doing the torture thing ever again. The shame and horror dripping off them both...
The rescue. OK. For one, it should be brutally obvious the cinematographer is fucking with us. Yellow and red. Yellow with red highlights everywhere. We get it. OG Daeredevil outfit.
For another, they took the Old Boy hammer fight sequence, and took away the hammer, and made it more intense. How? How do you improve on the Old Boy fight sequence? Right here, they did it.
There will never be a better fight scene on TV, unless it's in this series.
posted by Slap*Happy at 8:13 PM on April 10, 2015 [5 favorites]
Nelson and Murdock! Foggy's name comes first for a reason.
1) Cast perfectly. Awkward and stilted at the beginning, at the end of Ep2, he's just who he is. Awesome.
2) Foggy is smarter and more competent and as humane in very subtle ways as Matt.
Battlin' Jack! One of those Dads who's convinced he's the worst human being to bring up a kid ever, while moving heaven and earth for Matt. Hits pretty close to home for every dad. Wow, that's intense.
Claire! They have an unspoken agreement. We're not doing the torture thing ever again. The shame and horror dripping off them both...
The rescue. OK. For one, it should be brutally obvious the cinematographer is fucking with us. Yellow and red. Yellow with red highlights everywhere. We get it. OG Daeredevil outfit.
For another, they took the Old Boy hammer fight sequence, and took away the hammer, and made it more intense. How? How do you improve on the Old Boy fight sequence? Right here, they did it.
There will never be a better fight scene on TV, unless it's in this series.
posted by Slap*Happy at 8:13 PM on April 10, 2015 [5 favorites]
Oh, and a teaser - one character mentioned often is a familiar name in the comics, and is powerful enough to take on the Avengers, the ones from the movie who left all of the damage be repaired, those Avengers. All of them. At once. And is also a recurring Hulk enemy, as in, can be punched by the Hulk repeatedly and still punch back.
Matt will probably have to fight this person.
posted by Slap*Happy at 8:45 PM on April 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
Matt will probably have to fight this person.
posted by Slap*Happy at 8:45 PM on April 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
Just got done watching this, and I'm glad to have enjoyed it as much as I did, because the initial trailers did not look promising. I mean, at this point I'll check out anything Marvel does, because I admire their ambition and I'm always curious to see the results, but that "You're blind, but you see so much!" line from the first trailer is strictly first draft material.
And beyond that, the tone looked too somber to me. I don't mind somber, but sometimes a very serious, hushed trailer for superhero material means that the final cut will turn out to be wallowing in a grimdark aesthetic that's (a) not appropriate for superheroes other than Batman, and (b) also pretty boring even with Batman. I just think an overly serious vibe betrays a lack of confidence in the genre. And for the most part Marvel's done a good job staying away from Gloomtown. This looked like a retreat to me, until the very last trailers appeared.
And now, having actually watched the first episode, I find I'm not bothered much by "Daredevil" being a little murkier than, say, "Guardians of the Galaxy". It fits the character, and most importantly, they've managed to retain a fair amount of humor. Ultimately, grim 'n gritty tends to squelch humor if you're not careful, and that didn't happen here. Matt Murdock is allowed to retain his wit and charisma. Fred Clark was just saying it over on slacktivist: it's important for superheroes to have some fund of panache.
posted by Ipsifendus at 8:49 PM on April 10, 2015 [3 favorites]
And beyond that, the tone looked too somber to me. I don't mind somber, but sometimes a very serious, hushed trailer for superhero material means that the final cut will turn out to be wallowing in a grimdark aesthetic that's (a) not appropriate for superheroes other than Batman, and (b) also pretty boring even with Batman. I just think an overly serious vibe betrays a lack of confidence in the genre. And for the most part Marvel's done a good job staying away from Gloomtown. This looked like a retreat to me, until the very last trailers appeared.
And now, having actually watched the first episode, I find I'm not bothered much by "Daredevil" being a little murkier than, say, "Guardians of the Galaxy". It fits the character, and most importantly, they've managed to retain a fair amount of humor. Ultimately, grim 'n gritty tends to squelch humor if you're not careful, and that didn't happen here. Matt Murdock is allowed to retain his wit and charisma. Fred Clark was just saying it over on slacktivist: it's important for superheroes to have some fund of panache.
posted by Ipsifendus at 8:49 PM on April 10, 2015 [3 favorites]
Matt will probably have to fight this person.
I'm hoping he holds off on that until he's got Luke and Danny at his back, at least.
Because jeez. Even the Night Nurse wouldn't be able to patch him up after that one.
posted by BitterOldPunk at 10:45 PM on April 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
I'm hoping he holds off on that until he's got Luke and Danny at his back, at least.
Because jeez. Even the Night Nurse wouldn't be able to patch him up after that one.
posted by BitterOldPunk at 10:45 PM on April 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
The color palette in this series is incredible, better than anything else I've seen recently, better than most movies. Muted tones of blue and grey, with just traces of red. Beautiful.
posted by happyroach at 8:32 AM on April 11, 2015
posted by happyroach at 8:32 AM on April 11, 2015
I am impressed by how it's obviously situated in the MCU without namedropping Iron Man or aliens every other scene.
Look closer. When the real estate agent talks about damage to the building, that's from the Battle of New York. And I've seen at least one reference in a later episode. DD's doing his part to monetize the franchise.
posted by scalefree at 11:50 AM on April 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
Look closer. When the real estate agent talks about damage to the building, that's from the Battle of New York. And I've seen at least one reference in a later episode. DD's doing his part to monetize the franchise.
posted by scalefree at 11:50 AM on April 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
Oh, I didn't miss the nods to the MCU; there's plenty of stuff in this and other eps, like the front pages of newspapers referencing the Battle. And indeed in later eps they do actually mention Iron Man, in passing. But for the most part it's kept subtle, which is good.
posted by adrianhon at 2:17 PM on April 11, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by adrianhon at 2:17 PM on April 11, 2015 [4 favorites]
Honestly, the references were probably my favorite unexpected part. Living in a time where there are now two "television" shows exploring the negative fallout the world is facing after the victorious endings of summer blockbusters is suiting me just fine.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 2:53 PM on April 11, 2015 [9 favorites]
posted by MCMikeNamara at 2:53 PM on April 11, 2015 [9 favorites]
Charlie Cox's American accent sounds a lot like Hugh Dancy's in Hannibal. That must just be the way young British actors sound when they play Americans.
They sound way more like each other than like anyone who grew up in the US.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 4:16 PM on April 11, 2015 [2 favorites]
They sound way more like each other than like anyone who grew up in the US.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 4:16 PM on April 11, 2015 [2 favorites]
They sound way more like each other than like anyone who grew up in the US.
I dunno, it sounded to me like Cox was doing a fairly credible George Clooney imitation.
posted by Ipsifendus at 5:57 PM on April 11, 2015
I dunno, it sounded to me like Cox was doing a fairly credible George Clooney imitation.
posted by Ipsifendus at 5:57 PM on April 11, 2015
DD's doing his part to monetize the franchise.
And this is what I was afraid of, and yet, I'm still hopeful. Thing is, DD is difficult to get right, so my expectations are fairly muted - but I think I saw the Hand foreshadowed, and that's good enough to keep me going.
posted by eclectist at 8:50 PM on April 11, 2015
And this is what I was afraid of, and yet, I'm still hopeful. Thing is, DD is difficult to get right, so my expectations are fairly muted - but I think I saw the Hand foreshadowed, and that's good enough to keep me going.
posted by eclectist at 8:50 PM on April 11, 2015
I dunno, it sounded to me like Cox was doing a fairly credible George Clooney imitation.
Doot. I'm froms Row Dyelan, an lemme tell yas aboudit. I sound pretty much like Cox when talking with people not from the Northeast. Maybe worse, as I have the TV-announcer sing-song thing going on as well as the neutral "Midlands" accent. A kid from the "wrong" part of NYC who graduates Summa Cum Laude from Columbia might well sound similar.
posted by Slap*Happy at 9:36 PM on April 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
Doot. I'm froms Row Dyelan, an lemme tell yas aboudit. I sound pretty much like Cox when talking with people not from the Northeast. Maybe worse, as I have the TV-announcer sing-song thing going on as well as the neutral "Midlands" accent. A kid from the "wrong" part of NYC who graduates Summa Cum Laude from Columbia might well sound similar.
posted by Slap*Happy at 9:36 PM on April 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
I did not expect to like this show. Superhero TV shows for the most part just fall flat for me.
I was pleasantly surprised. I love this show.
posted by [insert clever name here] at 11:14 AM on April 12, 2015
I was pleasantly surprised. I love this show.
posted by [insert clever name here] at 11:14 AM on April 12, 2015
I am over the moon thrilled with the noir dripping all over this. It doesn't go holy-shit-brutal till later episodes - and man you will know exactly what I am talking about when it happens - but the dark and grit is just wonderful to me. Forget it Foggy, it's Kitchentown. No doubt in my mind that Parker used to pull jobs in that neighborhood.
It's funny, I finally got around to watching the Veronica Mars movie earlier this week and didn't think that I'd be on a noir binge when I moved on to Daredevil as the next watch.
posted by phearlez at 4:24 PM on April 12, 2015
It's funny, I finally got around to watching the Veronica Mars movie earlier this week and didn't think that I'd be on a noir binge when I moved on to Daredevil as the next watch.
posted by phearlez at 4:24 PM on April 12, 2015
Not really in the superheroes thing, but just caught the first ep and I'm hooked. Grimdark done right without the woe-is-me, and not smarmy like the Afleck movie.
I thought that Charlie Cox would forever be Tristan Thorn from Stardust, for me. Lets see if the Daredevil role can overwrite that for me.
posted by porpoise at 5:20 PM on April 12, 2015
I thought that Charlie Cox would forever be Tristan Thorn from Stardust, for me. Lets see if the Daredevil role can overwrite that for me.
posted by porpoise at 5:20 PM on April 12, 2015
Oh god, that's where I've been charmed by him with previously no idea who he was before.
(Getting old sucks; you can't even keep track of attractive actors anymore.)
posted by MCMikeNamara at 5:53 AM on April 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
(Getting old sucks; you can't even keep track of attractive actors anymore.)
posted by MCMikeNamara at 5:53 AM on April 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
Didn't remember him from Stardust but I do remember my wife being a big fan of his as Owen in Boardwalk Empire.
posted by octothorpe at 6:10 AM on April 13, 2015
posted by octothorpe at 6:10 AM on April 13, 2015
I am somewhat shocked that he's the lead from Stardust, who at the time I primarily thought of as Robert Sean Leonard v2.0 and he no longer looks like him to me at all.
posted by phearlez at 10:09 AM on April 13, 2015
posted by phearlez at 10:09 AM on April 13, 2015
I seem to be in the minority. Couldn't make it through ep 1.
posted by Mogur at 3:15 PM on April 14, 2015
posted by Mogur at 3:15 PM on April 14, 2015
I'm with you, Mogur. I'm struggling to see where the love is coming from. Rosario Dawson does show up so that's nice but it has shades of 24 (torture works and is awesome!) that's seriously off-putting. Also, not being able to see but being able to take on multiple bad guys who have guns while you're fighting in an unfamiliar location takes some serious suspension-of-disbelief and I'm not buying.
posted by Ik ben afgesneden at 3:48 PM on April 14, 2015
posted by Ik ben afgesneden at 3:48 PM on April 14, 2015
By the way, if the kind of hyperkinetic, ultraviolent fighting on this show grabs your attention, good news! Your favorite show is actually Banshee. Start watching it immediately.
I tried watching that and it really whiffed too strongly of something that would be better named The Tough Guy Chronicles. But I'm looking forward to checking out DD, probably my favourite Marvel character outside of Punisher. Which, yeah, is basically The Tough Guy Chronicles.
posted by turbid dahlia at 4:50 PM on April 14, 2015
I tried watching that and it really whiffed too strongly of something that would be better named The Tough Guy Chronicles. But I'm looking forward to checking out DD, probably my favourite Marvel character outside of Punisher. Which, yeah, is basically The Tough Guy Chronicles.
posted by turbid dahlia at 4:50 PM on April 14, 2015
OH SHIT I HOPE THIS HAS THE PUNISHER IN IT AT SOME STAGE
posted by turbid dahlia at 4:52 PM on April 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by turbid dahlia at 4:52 PM on April 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
Also, not being able to see but being able to take on multiple bad guys who have guns while you're fighting in an unfamiliar location takes some serious suspension-of-disbelief and I'm not buying.
Daredevil from the comics has superhero-like senses, but they don't immediately show that in the Netflix series.
posted by Pendragon at 12:47 AM on April 15, 2015 [3 favorites]
Daredevil from the comics has superhero-like senses, but they don't immediately show that in the Netflix series.
posted by Pendragon at 12:47 AM on April 15, 2015 [3 favorites]
It's a superhero show set in the same world as The Hulk and Thor, if you can't suspend disbelief you're probably watching the wrong genre.
posted by octothorpe at 3:36 AM on April 15, 2015 [10 favorites]
posted by octothorpe at 3:36 AM on April 15, 2015 [10 favorites]
It's an interesting problem. If you come into this show not because you're a fan of the other Marvel supers stuff and not familiar with Daredevil the character, is the fact that it's so street-level and otherwise noir story going to be off-putting when the super stuff happens?
I personally loved the slow way they elaborated on what he can do. If anything, the first episode undersells it before revealing just how far-reaching some of his senses are in the subsequent episode. We then get left with the mystery of how he learned to use his skills this well for many more episodes after that.
As a Daredevil fan and someone who read it all the way back during the Frank Miller days - which a lot of this draws from, with probably more credit to Brian Bendis for the noir feel - none of this surprised me and I liked it a lot. But I can see how it might put off folks who aren't into the supers. Matt's early days super simple costume doesn't communicate any extra-special powers, which also is to me appealing and potentially a "wtf how?" to others.
posted by phearlez at 10:18 AM on April 15, 2015
I personally loved the slow way they elaborated on what he can do. If anything, the first episode undersells it before revealing just how far-reaching some of his senses are in the subsequent episode. We then get left with the mystery of how he learned to use his skills this well for many more episodes after that.
As a Daredevil fan and someone who read it all the way back during the Frank Miller days - which a lot of this draws from, with probably more credit to Brian Bendis for the noir feel - none of this surprised me and I liked it a lot. But I can see how it might put off folks who aren't into the supers. Matt's early days super simple costume doesn't communicate any extra-special powers, which also is to me appealing and potentially a "wtf how?" to others.
posted by phearlez at 10:18 AM on April 15, 2015
I think they glossed over his origin story because fanboys. Fine, whatever. But non-comic book people need more. Superman, Spiderman, The Hulk, they all have origins that set the foundation for the superpowers and that information is laid out early and clearly.
All this show gave me was someone was blinded as a kid. And? I haven't read the comics, I'm going into this without that baggage and in that vein, there's no reason for me to believe he's superhuman. Even SHIELD is very clear about setting up the origin stories for their folks and distinguishing between those with powers vs those with tech enhancements.
posted by Ik ben afgesneden at 11:20 AM on April 15, 2015
All this show gave me was someone was blinded as a kid. And? I haven't read the comics, I'm going into this without that baggage and in that vein, there's no reason for me to believe he's superhuman. Even SHIELD is very clear about setting up the origin stories for their folks and distinguishing between those with powers vs those with tech enhancements.
posted by Ik ben afgesneden at 11:20 AM on April 15, 2015
One of the shortfalls of series pacing in the age of Binge Watching - the show runner sometimes thinks they have more time than they do to introduce essential plot points or character aspects. The unusual nature and scope of his abilities is hinted at in the second and an essential plot point in the courtroom scenes in following episodes, but largely absent in the first. You're not hit over the head with it, so you may miss it if you're not looking for it, and non-comics fans on the fence about it aren't.
posted by Slap*Happy at 11:32 AM on April 15, 2015
posted by Slap*Happy at 11:32 AM on April 15, 2015
All this show gave me was someone was blinded as a kid. And?
Okay you have gone from my thinking this was an interesting question to now believing you're not being remotely reasonable. The real statement as you should write it would be all the show gave me within the first 50 minutes out of 650 total was someone was blinded as a kid.
Even within the noir tropes you're nowhere near the time before you'd have the reveal of someone's mysterious background. The show explains the nature of his ability in the very next episode. I would be shocked if there's not plenty of examples of characters showing up in SHIELD whose nature is not explained within the first 7.5% of the show run.
You got more than enough to think hey wait, something doesn't add up here. I can buy that some people might have an issue with the superhuman mixed into such an otherwise non-superhuman setting. But you're demanding a standard such that they'd have to put a little caption up under him within minutes of his first doing something you wouldn't think is possible and have it say "THIS PERSON IS A SUPERHUMAN WITH ABILITIES BEYOND THAT OF MORTAL MEN."
Certainly the first Matrix movie would fail this test; we get Trinity doing extreme levels of fighting without fully revealing what's going on, then we're with Neo and his humdrum life. Weird shit happens, including physically impossible stuff with the agents during interrogation, and it's not till even later that we get a how-is-this-possible explanation. And we even get a "maybe it's a dream" moment in between to muddy the water.
posted by phearlez at 1:07 PM on April 15, 2015 [5 favorites]
Okay you have gone from my thinking this was an interesting question to now believing you're not being remotely reasonable. The real statement as you should write it would be all the show gave me within the first 50 minutes out of 650 total was someone was blinded as a kid.
Even within the noir tropes you're nowhere near the time before you'd have the reveal of someone's mysterious background. The show explains the nature of his ability in the very next episode. I would be shocked if there's not plenty of examples of characters showing up in SHIELD whose nature is not explained within the first 7.5% of the show run.
You got more than enough to think hey wait, something doesn't add up here. I can buy that some people might have an issue with the superhuman mixed into such an otherwise non-superhuman setting. But you're demanding a standard such that they'd have to put a little caption up under him within minutes of his first doing something you wouldn't think is possible and have it say "THIS PERSON IS A SUPERHUMAN WITH ABILITIES BEYOND THAT OF MORTAL MEN."
Certainly the first Matrix movie would fail this test; we get Trinity doing extreme levels of fighting without fully revealing what's going on, then we're with Neo and his humdrum life. Weird shit happens, including physically impossible stuff with the agents during interrogation, and it's not till even later that we get a how-is-this-possible explanation. And we even get a "maybe it's a dream" moment in between to muddy the water.
posted by phearlez at 1:07 PM on April 15, 2015 [5 favorites]
I tried watching this yesterday and I couldn't stand it. I'm not familiar with the Daredevil stories beyond a very basic "This is who he is and what he does" kind of thing, but I found the first episode really stupid and won't be watching the rest. I'm completely fine missing out on this, no matter how good it gets later. I understand the momentum of Netflix automatically starting the next one and the whole binge-watching you're meant to go into, but if the first episode insults my intelligence I'm under no obligation to continue, you know?
I mean come on - rescuing poor trafficked women from a shipping container? This is what the show decides is the best introduction scenario for his abilities? I rolled my eyes so hard I can't believe they're attached this morning. I thought we were a little past this using women as props thing. A villain threatening someone's daughter in order to get the dad to do an evil deed? Come on. The only female character who didn't get introduced as a victim of some crime is the old woman who is part of That Really Bad Group of People. (Could they have hit that note any harder? I get it. These people are Bad. They do Predictable Racially Stereotyped Crimes. It's Terrible.)
Bah!
posted by erratic meatsack at 9:35 AM on April 16, 2015 [1 favorite]
I mean come on - rescuing poor trafficked women from a shipping container? This is what the show decides is the best introduction scenario for his abilities? I rolled my eyes so hard I can't believe they're attached this morning. I thought we were a little past this using women as props thing. A villain threatening someone's daughter in order to get the dad to do an evil deed? Come on. The only female character who didn't get introduced as a victim of some crime is the old woman who is part of That Really Bad Group of People. (Could they have hit that note any harder? I get it. These people are Bad. They do Predictable Racially Stereotyped Crimes. It's Terrible.)
Bah!
posted by erratic meatsack at 9:35 AM on April 16, 2015 [1 favorite]
Daredevil is the worst at doing confession.
posted by RobotHero at 9:04 AM on April 17, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by RobotHero at 9:04 AM on April 17, 2015 [3 favorites]
I'm late to the party, and I'll offer some middle ground between "this was the best" and "wtf, this really was dumb."
I realize full and well that 1) this in the MCU, so 2) there'll be your usual amount of suspended beliefs, given that we're talking about super heroes, but I'm not fully versed in the Daredevil canon. With that, I felt that this was a good introduction to our hero, who lost his vision at an early age, but was raised by the human punching bag (who would wasn't a great fighter, but could take hits until his opponents literally broke their fists on him), and has learned to hear more (heartbeats, and the motions while fighting of course). And the small reference to other supers destroying the town and increasing the profits of the nefarious ne'er-do-wells was fun in-universe reference, without making it a Superhero show right off the bat.
But at the same time, the four groups of villains were so cartoony, moreso for meeting in their suspiciously funded construction project. I hope they are some nod to the comics, because those are some worn-out tropes. At least no one was twirling their mustache and cackling. And no one blinked when Foggy introduced himself as such. Wikipedia lists his first name as Franklin, which sounds so much more professional. Even Frank Nelson, Esq. sounds better than Foggy Nelson, if you're trying to become a respected lawyer. Foggy is a suitable name for either a ship's first mate (the captain would be Stormy, of course), or a west coast stoner, possibly in San Francisco, and apparently he is neither.
Also: I really hope someone grabs the tails of Matt's mask. The "no capes" rule could be extended to include "no dangling bits."
posted by filthy light thief at 9:29 AM on April 25, 2015 [2 favorites]
I realize full and well that 1) this in the MCU, so 2) there'll be your usual amount of suspended beliefs, given that we're talking about super heroes, but I'm not fully versed in the Daredevil canon. With that, I felt that this was a good introduction to our hero, who lost his vision at an early age, but was raised by the human punching bag (who would wasn't a great fighter, but could take hits until his opponents literally broke their fists on him), and has learned to hear more (heartbeats, and the motions while fighting of course). And the small reference to other supers destroying the town and increasing the profits of the nefarious ne'er-do-wells was fun in-universe reference, without making it a Superhero show right off the bat.
But at the same time, the four groups of villains were so cartoony, moreso for meeting in their suspiciously funded construction project. I hope they are some nod to the comics, because those are some worn-out tropes. At least no one was twirling their mustache and cackling. And no one blinked when Foggy introduced himself as such. Wikipedia lists his first name as Franklin, which sounds so much more professional. Even Frank Nelson, Esq. sounds better than Foggy Nelson, if you're trying to become a respected lawyer. Foggy is a suitable name for either a ship's first mate (the captain would be Stormy, of course), or a west coast stoner, possibly in San Francisco, and apparently he is neither.
Also: I really hope someone grabs the tails of Matt's mask. The "no capes" rule could be extended to include "no dangling bits."
posted by filthy light thief at 9:29 AM on April 25, 2015 [2 favorites]
Just a performance note on this show. I'm not following it, but the blind Mr. Conspiracy is, and I've peeked into a few episodes.
The way he holds his cane is totally untenable. That weird pencil grip thing he does with his fingers below the grip? No. It has a golf club-style grip on it for a reason.
You grip it, like shaking a hand.
That shouldn't impede your enjoyment of the show. It's just driving me crazy.
Carry on and enjoy.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 6:37 PM on April 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
The way he holds his cane is totally untenable. That weird pencil grip thing he does with his fingers below the grip? No. It has a golf club-style grip on it for a reason.
You grip it, like shaking a hand.
That shouldn't impede your enjoyment of the show. It's just driving me crazy.
Carry on and enjoy.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 6:37 PM on April 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
mandolin conspiracy, it seems you fall into to the extremely rarefied category of people who know and care how a blind person holds a cane, and who also aren't blind.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 7:11 PM on April 28, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by paper chromatographologist at 7:11 PM on April 28, 2015 [2 favorites]
mandolin conspiracy, it seems you fall into to the extremely rarefied category of people who know and care how a blind person holds a cane, and who also aren't blind.
I like a man who sees with his hands.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 6:33 AM on April 29, 2015 [11 favorites]
I like a man who sees with his hands.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 6:33 AM on April 29, 2015 [11 favorites]
I don't think the pencil grip came out of nowhere.
This seems to me like the kind of detail an actor would base on something he saw an actual blind person do, but where he could mess up is use it in inappropriate situations.
posted by RobotHero at 7:26 AM on April 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
This seems to me like the kind of detail an actor would base on something he saw an actual blind person do, but where he could mess up is use it in inappropriate situations.
posted by RobotHero at 7:26 AM on April 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
Yeah, to be clear I was referring to where he's deploying it when he's in full navigation mode where it's bad or not-so-useful technique. But hey, it's only TV.
Apparently Charlie Cox did get Orientation and Mobility (O&M) training as part of the prep for the role.
Also, we know blind people with awful cane technique that limits their independence. So it's not just TV.
As a point of interest, there are varying styles of cane technique. Mr. Conspiracy uses two-point touch technique.
Other folks prefer constant contact technique.
Here's a study entitled "Drop-off Detection with the Long Cane: Effects of Different Cane Techniques on Performance."
Effective white cane use is actually a highly technical skill requiring training and practice. As that study I linked to says: "superior performance in detecting drop-offs by the participants with longer years of cane use is consistent with the literature on the relationship between training and perceptual abilities: training can improve perception."
My anecdata says: Yes, that's true.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 7:59 AM on April 29, 2015 [4 favorites]
Apparently Charlie Cox did get Orientation and Mobility (O&M) training as part of the prep for the role.
Also, we know blind people with awful cane technique that limits their independence. So it's not just TV.
As a point of interest, there are varying styles of cane technique. Mr. Conspiracy uses two-point touch technique.
Other folks prefer constant contact technique.
Here's a study entitled "Drop-off Detection with the Long Cane: Effects of Different Cane Techniques on Performance."
Effective white cane use is actually a highly technical skill requiring training and practice. As that study I linked to says: "superior performance in detecting drop-offs by the participants with longer years of cane use is consistent with the literature on the relationship between training and perceptual abilities: training can improve perception."
My anecdata says: Yes, that's true.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 7:59 AM on April 29, 2015 [4 favorites]
Maybe he's picked up some bad habits that he can only get away with because of his super-powers.
posted by RobotHero at 10:00 PM on April 29, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by RobotHero at 10:00 PM on April 29, 2015 [7 favorites]
Finally got around to watching the first ep of this yesterday. Tropey in places, but I enjoyed it - it was nice to see a superhero thing that was more about subtlety than about making things explode.
posted by nubs at 3:52 PM on May 11, 2015
posted by nubs at 3:52 PM on May 11, 2015
By the way, if the kind of hyperkinetic, ultraviolent fighting on this show grabs your attention, good news! Your favorite show is actually Banshee. Start watching it immediately.
Banshee season one recently appeared on Amazon Prime, and I'm 10 episodes in. And yes, it turns out my favorite show is actually Banshee.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 4:34 PM on May 26, 2015
Banshee season one recently appeared on Amazon Prime, and I'm 10 episodes in. And yes, it turns out my favorite show is actually Banshee.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 4:34 PM on May 26, 2015
I can't believe no one besides erratic meatsack called out the women-in-a-shipping-container thing. Every woman in this episode either needed saving or was a prop.
I'll admit that I went into this show with an attitude - do we really need ANOTHER show about some super-manly dude that fights a bunch of other evil manly-dudes? Yawn.
My husband and several other friends are VERY INTO DAREDEVIL, so I promised that I'd give it another chance. We'll see how it goes, but I'm not optimistic.
posted by MsVader at 7:05 AM on July 1, 2015
I'll admit that I went into this show with an attitude - do we really need ANOTHER show about some super-manly dude that fights a bunch of other evil manly-dudes? Yawn.
My husband and several other friends are VERY INTO DAREDEVIL, so I promised that I'd give it another chance. We'll see how it goes, but I'm not optimistic.
posted by MsVader at 7:05 AM on July 1, 2015
I can't believe no one besides erratic meatsack called out the women-in-a-shipping-container thing.
Yeah, the whole women in containers thing seemed like they were also trying to channel The Wire in terms of drama and grittiness.
posted by FJT at 6:28 PM on December 10, 2015
Yeah, the whole women in containers thing seemed like they were also trying to channel The Wire in terms of drama and grittiness.
posted by FJT at 6:28 PM on December 10, 2015
Called it.
posted by turbid dahlia at 5:41 PM on March 30, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by turbid dahlia at 5:41 PM on March 30, 2016 [1 favorite]
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posted by jason_steakums at 10:04 AM on April 10, 2015 [7 favorites]