Daredevil: In The Blood
April 17, 2015 5:36 AM - Season 1, Episode 4 - Subscribe
Russian mobsters Anatoly and Vladimir are pressured by Fisk to eliminate the vigilante.
Upon learning that Claire is connected to him, they kidnap her to lure Matt into a trap, but Matt is able to fight them off and rescue her. Meanwhile, Fisk invites Vanessa on a date, which is interrupted by Anatoly, making Vanessa suspicious. She tells Fisk that she is uncertain about his intentions and motivations, and leaves. In a fit of rage, Fisk brutally beats Anatoly and crushes his head with a car door. He orders the body to be dumped where Vladimir will find it, and plants a black mask on the corpse in order to frame the vigilante for the murder. Meanwhile, Ben begrudgingly accepts Karen's help to investigate Union Allied, which has been dismantled, and acquire its old computers in an auction.
Upon learning that Claire is connected to him, they kidnap her to lure Matt into a trap, but Matt is able to fight them off and rescue her. Meanwhile, Fisk invites Vanessa on a date, which is interrupted by Anatoly, making Vanessa suspicious. She tells Fisk that she is uncertain about his intentions and motivations, and leaves. In a fit of rage, Fisk brutally beats Anatoly and crushes his head with a car door. He orders the body to be dumped where Vladimir will find it, and plants a black mask on the corpse in order to frame the vigilante for the murder. Meanwhile, Ben begrudgingly accepts Karen's help to investigate Union Allied, which has been dismantled, and acquire its old computers in an auction.
To be clear neither Ben nor Karen acquired any Union Allied property at the auction. Karen went to the auction to see who bought the Union Allied stuff. Ben showed up and pointed out that not buying anything would be look suspicious... so she bought a smaller, unrelated lot. The contents of an accounting office for $2,500; which she had billed to the firm.
posted by zinon at 6:46 AM on April 17, 2015
posted by zinon at 6:46 AM on April 17, 2015
Yeah, I cut and pasted that summary from Wikipedia without careful review. I also don't remember the planting of the black mask happening in this episode.
posted by He Is Only The Imposter at 6:48 AM on April 17, 2015
posted by He Is Only The Imposter at 6:48 AM on April 17, 2015
The black mask framejob comes in at the beginning of episode 5. I blame binge-scheduling that forces pop culture writers to deal with a whole ton of content in an extremely compressed time frame.
posted by Strange Interlude at 7:06 AM on April 17, 2015
posted by Strange Interlude at 7:06 AM on April 17, 2015
The black mask framejob comes in at the beginning of episode 5.
Oh good, I was bewildered, and wondered if I had averted my eyes too much because of all the head crushing.
posted by instead of three wishes at 7:11 AM on April 17, 2015
Oh good, I was bewildered, and wondered if I had averted my eyes too much because of all the head crushing.
posted by instead of three wishes at 7:11 AM on April 17, 2015
If I had made a list of things I wanted to see in a Daredevil TV show, "The Kingpin goes on a date" wouldn't have made the cut, but I would have been wrong.
posted by RobotHero at 7:21 AM on April 17, 2015 [23 favorites]
posted by RobotHero at 7:21 AM on April 17, 2015 [23 favorites]
I object to this episode mainly because there wasn't enough Gideon Emery in this series at all.
posted by rewil at 8:18 AM on April 17, 2015
posted by rewil at 8:18 AM on April 17, 2015
Kingpin losing his shit and Wesley's only-just-marginal discomfort with it were really something.
posted by phearlez at 8:40 AM on April 17, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by phearlez at 8:40 AM on April 17, 2015 [3 favorites]
I find it weird that the writers are tying up Ben Urich and Karen Page in such a close relationship, but not Karen and Matt, unless they're going to skip over that altogether (perhaps wisely) or make it a reallly slow burn. Either one is going to complicate other iconic storylines (Born Again, Electra/Bullseye, Typhoid Mary) for future seasons.
Have we heard anything about future seasons?
posted by eclectist at 9:44 AM on April 17, 2015
Have we heard anything about future seasons?
posted by eclectist at 9:44 AM on April 17, 2015
Have we heard anything about future seasons?
Nothing official yet, but A) the show is crazy popular, B) it's part of a long-term Marvel/Netflix TV plan, and C) Netflix has yet to not order a second season of any of its shows, so the odds are pretty good that they'll at least greenlight S2 soon.
posted by Etrigan at 10:07 AM on April 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
Nothing official yet, but A) the show is crazy popular, B) it's part of a long-term Marvel/Netflix TV plan, and C) Netflix has yet to not order a second season of any of its shows, so the odds are pretty good that they'll at least greenlight S2 soon.
posted by Etrigan at 10:07 AM on April 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
I can't imagine they won't do at least another unless the expense is just too much. I'm not sure how the individual show is doing, but they have had insane subscriber numbers over the last quarter and people seem to be losing their shit over this show.
That said supposedly there are further series coming up (like an Iron Fist series and holy lord am I ready for that after watching this!) so I guess we'll have to see how the longer arc of their putting these shows out goes.
I'm through episode eight and the show awakens such strong vibes of nostalgia for the classic Marvel NYC in me that now I want to see all these OTHER characters from my memory of the 80s/90s comics.
It is a bit weird that they are going straight for that NYC (don't get me wrong, I love it) when the real NYC has a very different image in modern media.
posted by selfnoise at 10:15 AM on April 17, 2015
That said supposedly there are further series coming up (like an Iron Fist series and holy lord am I ready for that after watching this!) so I guess we'll have to see how the longer arc of their putting these shows out goes.
I'm through episode eight and the show awakens such strong vibes of nostalgia for the classic Marvel NYC in me that now I want to see all these OTHER characters from my memory of the 80s/90s comics.
It is a bit weird that they are going straight for that NYC (don't get me wrong, I love it) when the real NYC has a very different image in modern media.
posted by selfnoise at 10:15 AM on April 17, 2015
If I had made a list of things I wanted to see in a Daredevil TV show, "The Kingpin goes on a date" wouldn't have made the cut, but I would have been wrong.
Wilson's relationship with Vanessa drives some not-small portion of the comics, and it gives Kingpin something to do since they're still presenting him as someone who you need to go through layers of guys to reach.
Now, why Vanessa is so drawn to a guy who looks and speaks like he's doing an impression of Christopher Lloyd as Uncle Fester from the Addams Family movies is another matter entirely.
posted by Parasite Unseen at 10:44 AM on April 17, 2015 [3 favorites]
Wilson's relationship with Vanessa drives some not-small portion of the comics, and it gives Kingpin something to do since they're still presenting him as someone who you need to go through layers of guys to reach.
Now, why Vanessa is so drawn to a guy who looks and speaks like he's doing an impression of Christopher Lloyd as Uncle Fester from the Addams Family movies is another matter entirely.
posted by Parasite Unseen at 10:44 AM on April 17, 2015 [3 favorites]
It is a bit weird that they are going straight for that NYC (don't get me wrong, I love it) when the real NYC has a very different image in modern media.
Daredevil is the guardian of Hell's Kitchen, and if you want to maintain that aspect of the character then you're going to have to reach back to an older New York. The Kingpin plotting to take over the Russians' artisanal cupcake business just wouldn't have the same dramatic weight.
posted by Parasite Unseen at 10:48 AM on April 17, 2015 [21 favorites]
Daredevil is the guardian of Hell's Kitchen, and if you want to maintain that aspect of the character then you're going to have to reach back to an older New York. The Kingpin plotting to take over the Russians' artisanal cupcake business just wouldn't have the same dramatic weight.
posted by Parasite Unseen at 10:48 AM on April 17, 2015 [21 favorites]
That said supposedly there are further series coming up (like an Iron Fist series and holy lord am I ready for that after watching this!) so I guess we'll have to see how the longer arc of their putting these shows out goes.
Yeah they've got four series total left to make (AKA Jessica Jones, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, and a Defender miniseries), so I'd guess there won't be another season of Daredevil until after the Defenders. That said, all of those shows sound awesome, so I'm willing to wait.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 11:03 AM on April 17, 2015
Yeah they've got four series total left to make (AKA Jessica Jones, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, and a Defender miniseries), so I'd guess there won't be another season of Daredevil until after the Defenders. That said, all of those shows sound awesome, so I'm willing to wait.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 11:03 AM on April 17, 2015
Now, why Vanessa is so drawn to a guy who looks and speaks like he's doing an impression of Christopher Lloyd as Uncle Fester from the Addams Family movies is another matter entirely.
I had D'Onofrio's Kingpin voice pegged as more of a mashup of Brando-as-Kurtz and Sidney Greenstreet, but I might have to throw Fester in there too. Basically he's every creepy bald guy from classic movies.
posted by Strange Interlude at 11:30 AM on April 17, 2015
I had D'Onofrio's Kingpin voice pegged as more of a mashup of Brando-as-Kurtz and Sidney Greenstreet, but I might have to throw Fester in there too. Basically he's every creepy bald guy from classic movies.
posted by Strange Interlude at 11:30 AM on April 17, 2015
"A purple ascot? That's a bit much."
I'm through episode eight and the show awakens such strong vibes of nostalgia for the classic Marvel NYC in me that now I want to see all these OTHER characters from my memory of the 80s/90s comics.
You said it. This is by far my favorite tier of the Marvel universe. The spies, the gods and demons and aliens, the science heroes, mutants and super soldiers are all severely cool but it's these neighborhood heroes that have always hooked me the hardest. These weird little pockets of the world that the Avengers know nothing about. Something I've always loved about Daredevil: he didn't travel the world to become a superhero, to learn to fight, to become resourceful. I don't think he even really leaves New York until he's grown and wearing the horns.
Here's my Netflix Marvel/Defenders Year 2 wish/unreasonable demand list
Series One: The Pulse, starring Jessica Jones. Like AoS, this series about online citizen journalism is a convenient mechanism to introduce basically any comics character or concept to the MCU.
Series Two: Moon Knight. Track his journey from split personalities, barely in control Doug Monech version all the way out to white suited super slick Warren Ellis version. Skip right over the "rejected Spawn pitch" Charlie Hudson murder man version. But do make it a sort of Hannibal/Dexter antihero thing, a protagonist you feel weird about rooting for.
Series Three: Cloak & Dagger: Since we're in the MCU, they're runaway latent Inhumans instead of runaway premanifestation mutants, fine. If Fox has the rights to these two, I doubt they've noticed. They're are criminally overlooked and underused in every permutation of Marvel! Even more than Daredevil, Cloak & Dagger fight for society's truly forgotten - the homeless, drug addicts, abuse and trafficking victims- generally people in way, way over their head. They fight the demons of poverty and also actual demons.
Series Four: The Punisher, starring Ray Stephenson! War Zone wasn't his fault! Include Daredevil among Frank's antagonists - a guy that he can't beat in a fair fight but also knows he can't kill.
Miniseries Windup: Dr Strange & The Defenders. Cumberbatch and the gang in Hell's Kitchen! And various bonkers parallel dream realities, since I can't call anything that doesn't reach Full Mantlo Weirdness a real Defenders story. Use the subplots to set up Ghost Rider for series one of year 3.
posted by EatTheWeek at 11:32 AM on April 17, 2015
I'm through episode eight and the show awakens such strong vibes of nostalgia for the classic Marvel NYC in me that now I want to see all these OTHER characters from my memory of the 80s/90s comics.
You said it. This is by far my favorite tier of the Marvel universe. The spies, the gods and demons and aliens, the science heroes, mutants and super soldiers are all severely cool but it's these neighborhood heroes that have always hooked me the hardest. These weird little pockets of the world that the Avengers know nothing about. Something I've always loved about Daredevil: he didn't travel the world to become a superhero, to learn to fight, to become resourceful. I don't think he even really leaves New York until he's grown and wearing the horns.
Here's my Netflix Marvel/Defenders Year 2 wish/unreasonable demand list
Series One: The Pulse, starring Jessica Jones. Like AoS, this series about online citizen journalism is a convenient mechanism to introduce basically any comics character or concept to the MCU.
Series Two: Moon Knight. Track his journey from split personalities, barely in control Doug Monech version all the way out to white suited super slick Warren Ellis version. Skip right over the "rejected Spawn pitch" Charlie Hudson murder man version. But do make it a sort of Hannibal/Dexter antihero thing, a protagonist you feel weird about rooting for.
Series Three: Cloak & Dagger: Since we're in the MCU, they're runaway latent Inhumans instead of runaway premanifestation mutants, fine. If Fox has the rights to these two, I doubt they've noticed. They're are criminally overlooked and underused in every permutation of Marvel! Even more than Daredevil, Cloak & Dagger fight for society's truly forgotten - the homeless, drug addicts, abuse and trafficking victims- generally people in way, way over their head. They fight the demons of poverty and also actual demons.
Series Four: The Punisher, starring Ray Stephenson! War Zone wasn't his fault! Include Daredevil among Frank's antagonists - a guy that he can't beat in a fair fight but also knows he can't kill.
Miniseries Windup: Dr Strange & The Defenders. Cumberbatch and the gang in Hell's Kitchen! And various bonkers parallel dream realities, since I can't call anything that doesn't reach Full Mantlo Weirdness a real Defenders story. Use the subplots to set up Ghost Rider for series one of year 3.
posted by EatTheWeek at 11:32 AM on April 17, 2015
YES!
I suppose Jeremy Renner is too big of an action star now to do this, but the Matt Fraction Hawkeye feels of a piece with this stuff as well.
Series Three: Cloak & Dagger
I approve of this.
Series Four: The Punisher
Since they now have the Punisher rights back I can't imagine he DOESN'T show up in Daredevil. He fits the tone they are going for perfectly.
posted by selfnoise at 11:50 AM on April 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
I suppose Jeremy Renner is too big of an action star now to do this, but the Matt Fraction Hawkeye feels of a piece with this stuff as well.
Series Three: Cloak & Dagger
I approve of this.
Series Four: The Punisher
Since they now have the Punisher rights back I can't imagine he DOESN'T show up in Daredevil. He fits the tone they are going for perfectly.
posted by selfnoise at 11:50 AM on April 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
Still, I want more DD. Honestly, he didn't even get a good Gladiator fight in (complete with Roman helmet and wrist blades), not to mention all the other rogues in his gallery. Besides, aside from costs (which it looks like they're going to recoup in spades), whats to keep them from keeping all of their series going? Though I admit AKA Jessica Jones can fly and that might get expensive to film, if there are aerial battles. Then again, CGI can do amazing things these days...
posted by eclectist at 12:03 PM on April 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by eclectist at 12:03 PM on April 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
Though I admit AKA Jessica Jones can fly and that might get expensive to film, if there are aerial battles.
I was always a little disappointed in later Jessica Jones appearances where she would occasionally fly like it was no big deal, because one of the things I loved about Alias was how she could fly but she was bad at it and kind of hated it.
posted by jason_steakums at 12:10 PM on April 17, 2015
I was always a little disappointed in later Jessica Jones appearances where she would occasionally fly like it was no big deal, because one of the things I loved about Alias was how she could fly but she was bad at it and kind of hated it.
posted by jason_steakums at 12:10 PM on April 17, 2015
I wonder if the other series will be in the same retro-New York. I suppose they could just place the characters in different neighborhoods. Though I do giggle at the idea of the Kingpin's master plan being to open an artisinal cupcake shop with Vanessa.
This episode? I needed a hug afterwards. I'm rarely engaged in tv or movie fight scenes; the ones in Daredevil keep me on edge the entire time. I think the one-track shots might be a factor in helping them maintain the intensity - I had a similar reaction to the six-minute shot from True Detective.
posted by kanewai at 12:57 PM on April 17, 2015
This episode? I needed a hug afterwards. I'm rarely engaged in tv or movie fight scenes; the ones in Daredevil keep me on edge the entire time. I think the one-track shots might be a factor in helping them maintain the intensity - I had a similar reaction to the six-minute shot from True Detective.
posted by kanewai at 12:57 PM on April 17, 2015
Daredevil is the guardian of Hell's Kitchen
Fucking A. He's not the guardian of Clinton.
posted by maxsparber at 1:47 PM on April 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
Fucking A. He's not the guardian of Clinton.
posted by maxsparber at 1:47 PM on April 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
I, too, was flinching during the car door scene, and as a result saw the whole thing only poorly, through half-closed eyes. I apologize for what I'm about to ask, becasue it's revolting, but I'm gonna ask anyways because I doubt I'd do any better watching the scene a second time: towards the end of that scene, when the camera is shooting from below: was that the Russian's whole head falling off? I actually hope that's the case, because it is for some reason marginally less disgusting than my original impression, which was that his brains had slid out onto the ground. Ew!
posted by Ipsifendus at 2:06 PM on April 17, 2015
posted by Ipsifendus at 2:06 PM on April 17, 2015
Ipsifendus, that is the bit just before my eyes closed of their own accord - but I'm pretty sure those were in fact his brains.
Or at least...some of them...
posted by kythuen at 2:29 PM on April 17, 2015
Or at least...some of them...
posted by kythuen at 2:29 PM on April 17, 2015
The touch of adding the Russian bros backstory was critical.
Showing the hell that creates the kind of monsters these men become is something I've never really seen done effectively.
That scene in the Siberian prison with the rib was just... god.
posted by lattiboy at 2:57 PM on April 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
Showing the hell that creates the kind of monsters these men become is something I've never really seen done effectively.
That scene in the Siberian prison with the rib was just... god.
posted by lattiboy at 2:57 PM on April 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
I too swiftly looked away, but the sound suggested brains. And speaking of the sound, is it just me or is it....particularly intense in this show? I mean, good job foley artists, but I've had the urge to dive for the mute button more than once thanks to particularly gruesome sounds. I wonder if it's a deliberate choice, because I definitely find myself focusing on it in any of Matt's scenes especially, given that it heightens awareness that sound is one of the main things Matt has to go on.
posted by yasaman at 3:03 PM on April 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by yasaman at 3:03 PM on April 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
I noticed a lot of sounds that seem like deliberate choices. Voices echoing in rooms where they would in real life but not on a TV show, etc.
posted by Mick at 3:27 PM on April 17, 2015
posted by Mick at 3:27 PM on April 17, 2015
That's definitely on purpose. The sound editing and mixing are attempting to convey Matt's abilities in a way that doesn't boil down to him touching his temples and declaiming "My RADAR-SENSE is pinging!"
posted by Strange Interlude at 4:57 AM on April 18, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Strange Interlude at 4:57 AM on April 18, 2015 [2 favorites]
The sound editing and mixing are attempting to convey Matt's abilities in a way that doesn't boil down to him touching his temples and declaiming "My RADAR-SENSE is pinging!"
I might have missed it early on, but it sure seems like they just haven't said anything about him having radar, which I love. That always seemed the dumbest part of Daredevil's skillset -- why not just say that he's trained his other senses to fantastic levels?
posted by Etrigan at 5:12 AM on April 18, 2015
I might have missed it early on, but it sure seems like they just haven't said anything about him having radar, which I love. That always seemed the dumbest part of Daredevil's skillset -- why not just say that he's trained his other senses to fantastic levels?
posted by Etrigan at 5:12 AM on April 18, 2015
The spies, the gods and demons and aliens, the science heroes, mutants and super soldiers are all severely cool but it's these neighborhood heroes that have always hooked me the hardest.
For me (admittedly as a fairly casual comics reader, mostly trade paperbacks from the library), one of the really interesting things since the early 2000's has been Spidey's ambivalent relationship with the Avengers, for pretty much these reasons. He started as a neighborhood/NYC hero and generally has a huge man-crush on Daredevil, really admires and envies Daredevil's commitment to being a local hero first and foremost, but Parker's low self-esteem and desire for "legitimacy" makes the siren song of association with the big-name Avengers very hard to resist. So he's very uncertain about whether he can or even should be an Avenger, or whether he should emulate Daredevil and stick mostly to helping the ordinary people of NYC.
posted by soundguy99 at 8:32 AM on April 18, 2015 [2 favorites]
For me (admittedly as a fairly casual comics reader, mostly trade paperbacks from the library), one of the really interesting things since the early 2000's has been Spidey's ambivalent relationship with the Avengers, for pretty much these reasons. He started as a neighborhood/NYC hero and generally has a huge man-crush on Daredevil, really admires and envies Daredevil's commitment to being a local hero first and foremost, but Parker's low self-esteem and desire for "legitimacy" makes the siren song of association with the big-name Avengers very hard to resist. So he's very uncertain about whether he can or even should be an Avenger, or whether he should emulate Daredevil and stick mostly to helping the ordinary people of NYC.
posted by soundguy99 at 8:32 AM on April 18, 2015 [2 favorites]
How any of you have any patience is beyond me. I watched it all last weekend, including a 10 ish hour marathon session on Sunday ( had to fit game of thrones in there).
I watched head crushing scene and yes, definately a hunk of brain-like matter.
I really hope they don't wait to do more Dare Devil until after the other Marvel franchises. That would be a travesty.
posted by [insert clever name here] at 9:58 AM on April 18, 2015
I watched head crushing scene and yes, definately a hunk of brain-like matter.
I really hope they don't wait to do more Dare Devil until after the other Marvel franchises. That would be a travesty.
posted by [insert clever name here] at 9:58 AM on April 18, 2015
the "rejected Spawn pitch" Charlie Hudson murder man version
I think you mean Charlie Huston, who is just flat-out one of my favorite writers working today. For novels, that is - I picked up the collection of his Moon Knight run and found it pretty unmemorable in comparison. Not having a particularly strong opinion about the character in any form, sure, skip Huston's version (but definitely give his other fiction a shot.)
The Punisher, starring Ray Stephenson! War Zone wasn't his fault!
I . . . . . kinda dug WarZone? Although that may have been more to do with comparison to the '04 film, which pretty much shot itself in the foot by casting Thomas Jane. Who is a fine actor but there was no way the studio was gonna allow him to be anti-hero enough for a good Punisher film. Agreed that Ray Stephenson was the right choice.
How any of you have any patience is beyond me.
Heck, I don't. Last episode today after lunch.
Real life just gets in the damn way sometimes, that whole "getting up in the morning" thing can really put a cramp in your binge-watching.
posted by soundguy99 at 10:43 AM on April 18, 2015 [2 favorites]
I think you mean Charlie Huston, who is just flat-out one of my favorite writers working today. For novels, that is - I picked up the collection of his Moon Knight run and found it pretty unmemorable in comparison. Not having a particularly strong opinion about the character in any form, sure, skip Huston's version (but definitely give his other fiction a shot.)
The Punisher, starring Ray Stephenson! War Zone wasn't his fault!
I . . . . . kinda dug WarZone? Although that may have been more to do with comparison to the '04 film, which pretty much shot itself in the foot by casting Thomas Jane. Who is a fine actor but there was no way the studio was gonna allow him to be anti-hero enough for a good Punisher film. Agreed that Ray Stephenson was the right choice.
How any of you have any patience is beyond me.
Heck, I don't. Last episode today after lunch.
Real life just gets in the damn way sometimes, that whole "getting up in the morning" thing can really put a cramp in your binge-watching.
posted by soundguy99 at 10:43 AM on April 18, 2015 [2 favorites]
"You got a new phone, just for your girls. My life sucks."
Followed by Matt's ca-razy wall-climbing and running to get to Claire. Damn.
And yeah, the head injuries in this show are nast-ay. I'm doing the ol' GoT thing and NOT LOOKING STARING BELOW THE SCREEN TILL IT'S ALL OVER thing.
"You embarrassed me in front of her." Oof.
posted by jenfullmoon at 1:30 PM on April 18, 2015 [3 favorites]
Followed by Matt's ca-razy wall-climbing and running to get to Claire. Damn.
And yeah, the head injuries in this show are nast-ay. I'm doing the ol' GoT thing and NOT LOOKING STARING BELOW THE SCREEN TILL IT'S ALL OVER thing.
"You embarrassed me in front of her." Oof.
posted by jenfullmoon at 1:30 PM on April 18, 2015 [3 favorites]
Now, why Vanessa is so drawn to a guy who looks and speaks like he's doing an impression of Christopher Lloyd as Uncle Fester from the Addams Family movies is another matter entirely.
I definitely had a crush on D'Onofrio when he was on Law and Order: Whichever One Vincent D'Onofrio Was On, and while I'm not exactly hot for Wilson Fisk, you can't deny the guy's magnetic. Every single word he says has this whispery intensity, and having that intensity directed at you would be pretty damn flattering, at the very least.
Plus he's a freaking billionaire.
posted by showbiz_liz at 6:10 PM on April 18, 2015 [2 favorites]
I definitely had a crush on D'Onofrio when he was on Law and Order: Whichever One Vincent D'Onofrio Was On, and while I'm not exactly hot for Wilson Fisk, you can't deny the guy's magnetic. Every single word he says has this whispery intensity, and having that intensity directed at you would be pretty damn flattering, at the very least.
Plus he's a freaking billionaire.
posted by showbiz_liz at 6:10 PM on April 18, 2015 [2 favorites]
D'Onofrio is such a good actor, he makes a slimy bastard like Wilson Fisk really compelling. I mean, I don't get what Vanessa sees in him - but I totally understand why she's intrigued by his soft spoken manner.
The car door scene was a bit much for me, though. Couldn't look at it.
posted by crossoverman at 11:49 PM on April 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
The car door scene was a bit much for me, though. Couldn't look at it.
posted by crossoverman at 11:49 PM on April 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
Plus he's a freaking billionaire.
Yeah, I was kind of wondering if this wasn't part of it. Even if she doesn't know who he is, her line of work likely puts her in contact with a lot of wealthy bachelors. It would be rather shallow of them to make that her only motivation, but it also wouldn't be the first time a female character has been written that way.
Or it could be that people are people, and attraction doesn't play by a single rule book.
posted by [insert clever name here] at 8:21 AM on April 19, 2015
Yeah, I was kind of wondering if this wasn't part of it. Even if she doesn't know who he is, her line of work likely puts her in contact with a lot of wealthy bachelors. It would be rather shallow of them to make that her only motivation, but it also wouldn't be the first time a female character has been written that way.
Or it could be that people are people, and attraction doesn't play by a single rule book.
posted by [insert clever name here] at 8:21 AM on April 19, 2015
Vanessa does mention during dinner that she's been courted by wealthy and powerful men before, but none managed to keep her attention for very long. Based on this, as well as what we see in later episodes (I'm on episode 8 right now), I can only conclude that she is attracted to Fisk's unique mix of power and vulnerability.
posted by Strange Interlude at 8:31 AM on April 19, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Strange Interlude at 8:31 AM on April 19, 2015 [2 favorites]
The Kingpin plotting to take over the Russians' artisanal cupcake business
The Kingpin stole 30 artisanal cupcakes. That's as many as three tens. And that's terrible.
posted by Strange Interlude at 8:34 AM on April 19, 2015 [8 favorites]
The Kingpin stole 30 artisanal cupcakes. That's as many as three tens. And that's terrible.
posted by Strange Interlude at 8:34 AM on April 19, 2015 [8 favorites]
To me, Kingpin sounds like Sam from The Muppets.
posted by gnuhavenpier at 10:40 AM on April 19, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by gnuhavenpier at 10:40 AM on April 19, 2015 [2 favorites]
Who is a bald eagle. So my theory about creepy bald guys still holds!
posted by Strange Interlude at 11:12 AM on April 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Strange Interlude at 11:12 AM on April 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
I feel like Kingpin is wearing a Fisk suit and wading through a world of shit.
posted by yonega at 11:17 AM on April 19, 2015
posted by yonega at 11:17 AM on April 19, 2015
Since they now have the Punisher rights back I can't imagine he DOESN'T show up in Daredevil. He fits the tone they are going for perfectly.
Woah woah woah. For years now (ever since finding Punisher MAX and later the whole insane storyline where he becomes a Frankenstein monster) I've mourned the possibility of there ever being a proper Punisher movie/series adaptation because it would just have to be way too brutal and insane for most people to stomach. Watching Daredevil, though, I've been saying wishfully that the steady increase in the level and presentation of violence here seems like they could be testing the waters for, like I said, a really proper Punisher.
I'm starting to feel more right about that...
posted by cmoj at 12:45 PM on April 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
Woah woah woah. For years now (ever since finding Punisher MAX and later the whole insane storyline where he becomes a Frankenstein monster) I've mourned the possibility of there ever being a proper Punisher movie/series adaptation because it would just have to be way too brutal and insane for most people to stomach. Watching Daredevil, though, I've been saying wishfully that the steady increase in the level and presentation of violence here seems like they could be testing the waters for, like I said, a really proper Punisher.
I'm starting to feel more right about that...
posted by cmoj at 12:45 PM on April 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
"Based on this, as well as what we see in later episodes (I'm on episode 8 right now), I can only conclude that she is attracted to Fisk's unique mix of power and vulnerability."
That's pretty common, I think. Fisk is powerful and frightening, but also emotionally vulnerable and isolated. That's a very attractive combination for a certain kind of personality -- more typically women, but also men. I've been on both sides of that equation because I'm actually like both personalities. A damaged person inspires a nurturing instinct, a very powerful personality (with a little danger) inspires respect and a sense of potential.
In other words, a big dose of codependency.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 1:45 PM on April 19, 2015 [2 favorites]
That's pretty common, I think. Fisk is powerful and frightening, but also emotionally vulnerable and isolated. That's a very attractive combination for a certain kind of personality -- more typically women, but also men. I've been on both sides of that equation because I'm actually like both personalities. A damaged person inspires a nurturing instinct, a very powerful personality (with a little danger) inspires respect and a sense of potential.
In other words, a big dose of codependency.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 1:45 PM on April 19, 2015 [2 favorites]
I'm waiting for someone to go, "Hey, how do you see through that thing? Doesn't it blind you?"
posted by Ik ben afgesneden at 3:22 PM on April 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Ik ben afgesneden at 3:22 PM on April 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
The trope that the hero and the villain "aren't so different, you and I", is a hoary old thing, but it's quite refreshing that the series lets the audience come to that conclusion by themselves, albeit with some very heavy-handed hints. But Fisk and Murdock are motivated by the same inexplicable love for the same neighbourhood, though to quite different ends. Having watched all the way through to the end (are there any in here who haven't yet?), I was surprised to find my sympathies more with Fisk, to be honest. I think what is tragic about him - which is simultaneously the thing that makes him dangerous - is that he could be the philanthropist he pretends to be, with a twist this way or that.
The very odd thing is that Fisk is obviously full of love - he loves Hell's Kitchen, enough that he hasn't proposed the most obvious thing for a property developer (which would be to call it something less off-putting); he loves Wesley; he loves... well, that comes a few episodes down the line; and he loves Vanessa. Murdock seems to be primarily motivated by hatred, however charming and smiley he appears.
I think the answer to the question of why Vanessa loves him is in that first scene together - Fisk a mountain of perfect calm, gazing at Rabbit in a Snowstorm, and Vanessa allowed to participate in that calm.
posted by Grangousier at 3:28 PM on April 19, 2015 [4 favorites]
The very odd thing is that Fisk is obviously full of love - he loves Hell's Kitchen, enough that he hasn't proposed the most obvious thing for a property developer (which would be to call it something less off-putting); he loves Wesley; he loves... well, that comes a few episodes down the line; and he loves Vanessa. Murdock seems to be primarily motivated by hatred, however charming and smiley he appears.
I think the answer to the question of why Vanessa loves him is in that first scene together - Fisk a mountain of perfect calm, gazing at Rabbit in a Snowstorm, and Vanessa allowed to participate in that calm.
posted by Grangousier at 3:28 PM on April 19, 2015 [4 favorites]
he loves Hell's Kitchen, enough that he hasn't proposed the most obvious thing for a property developer (which would be to call it something less off-putting)
Hell's Drawing Room.
posted by Etrigan at 4:00 PM on April 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
Hell's Drawing Room.
posted by Etrigan at 4:00 PM on April 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
I think you mean Charlie Huston, who is just flat-out one of my favorite writers working today.
So I can assume you're watching POWERS?
posted by phearlez at 4:02 PM on April 19, 2015
So I can assume you're watching POWERS?
posted by phearlez at 4:02 PM on April 19, 2015
Murdock seems to be primarily motivated by hatred, however charming and smiley he appears.
Murdock, I think, sees the world (sorry, couldn't resist) in much more absolutist moral terms than Fisk (which I think is supposed to be an effect of his Catholic upbringing, IIRC from some of the comics.) TBH, the show probably could have done more to show Hell's Kitchen as, well, Hell's Kitchen, a 70's-style NYC hellhole, which would have clarified that he became DD more out of a sense of righteous anger, of needing to protect the afflicted and forgotten because the authorities largely won't.
And then of course he does begin to actually hate Fisk, because he knows the truth about what Fisk has done when everyone else thinks Fisk is a swell guy.
I was surprised to find my sympathies more with Fisk, to be honest.
Which means that between the writers and D'Onofrio, they got you to swallow Fisk's "We have to destroy the village in order to save it" position hook, line, and sinker. Which just shows how good this series is.
posted by soundguy99 at 4:20 PM on April 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
Murdock, I think, sees the world (sorry, couldn't resist) in much more absolutist moral terms than Fisk (which I think is supposed to be an effect of his Catholic upbringing, IIRC from some of the comics.) TBH, the show probably could have done more to show Hell's Kitchen as, well, Hell's Kitchen, a 70's-style NYC hellhole, which would have clarified that he became DD more out of a sense of righteous anger, of needing to protect the afflicted and forgotten because the authorities largely won't.
And then of course he does begin to actually hate Fisk, because he knows the truth about what Fisk has done when everyone else thinks Fisk is a swell guy.
I was surprised to find my sympathies more with Fisk, to be honest.
Which means that between the writers and D'Onofrio, they got you to swallow Fisk's "We have to destroy the village in order to save it" position hook, line, and sinker. Which just shows how good this series is.
posted by soundguy99 at 4:20 PM on April 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
I think you mean Charlie Huston, who is just flat-out one of my favorite writers working today.
So I can assume you're watching POWERS?
Eh, gave it a shot for the first few episodes, didn't grab me enough to add it to the list of weekly viewings, said list already being long enough for my preferences. I wouldn't be surprised if I do a binge-watch later in the year, though.
Huston's a shit-hot writer, and I can certainly see why people reading his books would think, "This guy would be great for T.V. or movie or comics" buuuuuuuut so far I think novels are still his strong suit. Not gonna begrudge the guy a piece of the T.V. money, though.
posted by soundguy99 at 4:26 PM on April 19, 2015
So I can assume you're watching POWERS?
Eh, gave it a shot for the first few episodes, didn't grab me enough to add it to the list of weekly viewings, said list already being long enough for my preferences. I wouldn't be surprised if I do a binge-watch later in the year, though.
Huston's a shit-hot writer, and I can certainly see why people reading his books would think, "This guy would be great for T.V. or movie or comics" buuuuuuuut so far I think novels are still his strong suit. Not gonna begrudge the guy a piece of the T.V. money, though.
posted by soundguy99 at 4:26 PM on April 19, 2015
What's the tech Matt has attached to his laptop? It looks like he's reading Braille from it. Is it translating webpages?
posted by Ik ben afgesneden at 9:14 PM on April 19, 2015
posted by Ik ben afgesneden at 9:14 PM on April 19, 2015
Speaking of the great sound design, I noticed something in Episode 3, which I thought was a nod to DD's heightened senses. In the fight at the end there is a very high pitched tone mixed in that changes in relation to anything sharp. Like, when the knife is pulled you hear a sharp high pitch tone, and it comes to a peak when DD's head is up against the metal spike.
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 3:40 AM on April 20, 2015
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 3:40 AM on April 20, 2015
At this point, I'm curious about what's been going on in the MCU version of New York offscreen. Is Iron Man only operating when he's needed (the three solo films plus the Battle of New York), or has Tony Stark been protecting, destroying and rebuilding NYC for seven years solid now?
I've been a little surprised that, despite a wealth of Easter eggs for different Marvel properties in Daredevil, including a mention of Roxxon Energy Corp, there hasn't been so much as a Stark Industries truck driving by. I know that in the promotional poster for Daredevil you can see Avengers Tower in the skyline, but I haven't noticed it in any of the skyline shots in the show.
I'm a little worried that as the MCU expands, the world of the movies might get as convoluted as the one of the comics, especially since almost everyone introduced in Daredevil shares the name of a supervillain from the comics. I like that the scope of Daredevil is street-level, much smaller than the scope of Agents of SHIELD or the Avengers, which (at this point) is way smaller than the scope of Guardians of the Galaxy, and I would hate to lose that. I like how collateral damage means different things to our different heroes. Daredevil feels the impact of every innocent life, while whole cities and armies can fall and the Avengers would think it a shame, whereas all of Earth (Terra) can fall in the universe spanning battles of Guardians of the Galaxy and only Starlord would really take it personally.
On the bright side, the way I can handwave away continuity weirdness in superhero comics, is that, once I've accepted a world full of magic, alternate dimensions and people who hop between them, and time travelers mucking up the course of human events, it's easy to just think, "Huh. Bishop and Cable probably leapt too far into the past and kicked a lizard in ancient Egypt and now everything is a little bit different."
posted by elr at 5:43 PM on April 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
I've been a little surprised that, despite a wealth of Easter eggs for different Marvel properties in Daredevil, including a mention of Roxxon Energy Corp, there hasn't been so much as a Stark Industries truck driving by. I know that in the promotional poster for Daredevil you can see Avengers Tower in the skyline, but I haven't noticed it in any of the skyline shots in the show.
I'm a little worried that as the MCU expands, the world of the movies might get as convoluted as the one of the comics, especially since almost everyone introduced in Daredevil shares the name of a supervillain from the comics. I like that the scope of Daredevil is street-level, much smaller than the scope of Agents of SHIELD or the Avengers, which (at this point) is way smaller than the scope of Guardians of the Galaxy, and I would hate to lose that. I like how collateral damage means different things to our different heroes. Daredevil feels the impact of every innocent life, while whole cities and armies can fall and the Avengers would think it a shame, whereas all of Earth (Terra) can fall in the universe spanning battles of Guardians of the Galaxy and only Starlord would really take it personally.
On the bright side, the way I can handwave away continuity weirdness in superhero comics, is that, once I've accepted a world full of magic, alternate dimensions and people who hop between them, and time travelers mucking up the course of human events, it's easy to just think, "Huh. Bishop and Cable probably leapt too far into the past and kicked a lizard in ancient Egypt and now everything is a little bit different."
posted by elr at 5:43 PM on April 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
I know that in the promotional poster for Daredevil you can see Avengers Tower in the skyline, but I haven't noticed it in any of the skyline shots in the show.
This has bugged me so much, you don't even know. I've been looking for Stark/Avengers Tower in any of the skyline shots too, and never spotted it. I know the real reason is probably prosaic: no one wanted to bother to CGI it into the skyline, or the effects house that handled Stark Tower in the movie isn't the same one as Daredevil's so they don't have the object, whatever. Still, it's bugging me, and it's making me confused about the timeline of the show. If there hadn't been mentions of the Chitauri invasion, I might have assumed this took place before the Tower was built, pre-Avengers.
I do agree though that I'm wary of the MCU getting as sprawling and shambolic as the various comics continuities. Part of what attracted me to the MCU in the first place is that it's a streamlined universe that discards all the pesky built up continuity of the comicsverse: there are easter eggs for those in the know, comics-wise, but the various stories have been changed and condensed and distilled down to their best essence. Plus, I always thought it was to the MCU's benefit that Marvel didn't have the rights to X-Men or the Fantastic Four, because that made the MCU a little more plausible in terms of minimizing the sheer amount of stuff going on. But the bigger the MCU gets, the more you run into the same problems as the comics.
I don't know, I think compartmentalizing the various properties might be the best tack to take, so I prefer Daredevil's approach of the occasional reference to broader MCU events while maintaining a narrow focus. Agents of SHIELD in comparison is way too beholden to what's going on in the movies, to its detriment.
posted by yasaman at 6:00 PM on April 20, 2015
This has bugged me so much, you don't even know. I've been looking for Stark/Avengers Tower in any of the skyline shots too, and never spotted it. I know the real reason is probably prosaic: no one wanted to bother to CGI it into the skyline, or the effects house that handled Stark Tower in the movie isn't the same one as Daredevil's so they don't have the object, whatever. Still, it's bugging me, and it's making me confused about the timeline of the show. If there hadn't been mentions of the Chitauri invasion, I might have assumed this took place before the Tower was built, pre-Avengers.
I do agree though that I'm wary of the MCU getting as sprawling and shambolic as the various comics continuities. Part of what attracted me to the MCU in the first place is that it's a streamlined universe that discards all the pesky built up continuity of the comicsverse: there are easter eggs for those in the know, comics-wise, but the various stories have been changed and condensed and distilled down to their best essence. Plus, I always thought it was to the MCU's benefit that Marvel didn't have the rights to X-Men or the Fantastic Four, because that made the MCU a little more plausible in terms of minimizing the sheer amount of stuff going on. But the bigger the MCU gets, the more you run into the same problems as the comics.
I don't know, I think compartmentalizing the various properties might be the best tack to take, so I prefer Daredevil's approach of the occasional reference to broader MCU events while maintaining a narrow focus. Agents of SHIELD in comparison is way too beholden to what's going on in the movies, to its detriment.
posted by yasaman at 6:00 PM on April 20, 2015
See, I've just been wondering of Fisk and Tony Stark might know each other socially. I'm sure they've both been at the same gala at some point.
posted by showbiz_liz at 6:23 PM on April 20, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by showbiz_liz at 6:23 PM on April 20, 2015 [4 favorites]
I think that might have been Fisk's first gala. I wouldn't be surprised if it put him off galas for life. It wasn't really an advert for galas.
(That being the gala several episodes hence. I hope it's not too much of a spoiler to suggest that it wasn't the best gala ever.)
posted by Grangousier at 4:10 PM on April 21, 2015
(That being the gala several episodes hence. I hope it's not too much of a spoiler to suggest that it wasn't the best gala ever.)
posted by Grangousier at 4:10 PM on April 21, 2015
they got you to swallow Fisk's "We have to destroy the village in order to save it" position hook, line, and sinker
I'm not sure I swallowed anything, exactly. I'm not convinced of Fisk's case, rather that they've drawn a character complex enough to be interesting and - yes - sympathetic to a certain extent, despite the appalling things he does to people. I'm sure that what he's actually doing is terrible. I mean, yes, he loves His City, but he loves an abstract notion of the city (such that he's happy to see the actual buildings torn down and replaced). At the same time, he feels genuine concern for - at least - Wesley, Vanessa and his mother.
Murdock talks about helping The People, but his notion of who they are seems almost as abstract as Fisk's City. I'd suggest he doesn't want to change anything at all for anybody, just randomly beat up "bad guys" in his decaying city (I think he confesses almost as much to Claire at one point). I wonder how much of a connection he has to any individual - Foggy and Claire get the closest, but he keeps them at quite a distance from him.
They are each as emotionally and developmentally stunted as the other - I'd suggest they both stopped growing up at the point of their father's deaths. Fisk is more obviously an overgrown child, but the more I see of Murdock the less human emotion seems to be there.
Foggy and Karen, by contrast, both go out of their ways to make connections to people and try to materially improve their lives.
I'll stop now and try to jump on again at the appropriate episodes.
posted by Grangousier at 4:35 PM on April 21, 2015 [4 favorites]
I'm not sure I swallowed anything, exactly. I'm not convinced of Fisk's case, rather that they've drawn a character complex enough to be interesting and - yes - sympathetic to a certain extent, despite the appalling things he does to people. I'm sure that what he's actually doing is terrible. I mean, yes, he loves His City, but he loves an abstract notion of the city (such that he's happy to see the actual buildings torn down and replaced). At the same time, he feels genuine concern for - at least - Wesley, Vanessa and his mother.
Murdock talks about helping The People, but his notion of who they are seems almost as abstract as Fisk's City. I'd suggest he doesn't want to change anything at all for anybody, just randomly beat up "bad guys" in his decaying city (I think he confesses almost as much to Claire at one point). I wonder how much of a connection he has to any individual - Foggy and Claire get the closest, but he keeps them at quite a distance from him.
They are each as emotionally and developmentally stunted as the other - I'd suggest they both stopped growing up at the point of their father's deaths. Fisk is more obviously an overgrown child, but the more I see of Murdock the less human emotion seems to be there.
Foggy and Karen, by contrast, both go out of their ways to make connections to people and try to materially improve their lives.
I'll stop now and try to jump on again at the appropriate episodes.
posted by Grangousier at 4:35 PM on April 21, 2015 [4 favorites]
I am enjoying Daredevil so much and I am so glad to see this kind of variety in the MCU. I only watched the pilot of Agent Carter and it came off as a sort of Sky Captain of Yesteryear take on Agents of SHIELD, and I really grew to loathe AoS even if everyone assures me it is better now. But this is great, street-level and dark without being grimdark and not cape-y at all. I liked Fisk being set up as a sympathetic monster as well.
Also, I am super delighted Daredevil actually has Russian-speaking actors playing Russian characters. It's really surprisingly rare. I assume the EP being a guy named Shevchenko has something to do with it.
posted by griphus at 6:34 PM on April 21, 2015
Also, I am super delighted Daredevil actually has Russian-speaking actors playing Russian characters. It's really surprisingly rare. I assume the EP being a guy named Shevchenko has something to do with it.
posted by griphus at 6:34 PM on April 21, 2015
How any of you have any patience is beyond me. I watched it all last weekend, including a 10 ish hour marathon session on Sunday ( had to fit game of thrones in there).
It's been frustrating. Was traveling and working and such. Finally getting back to watching.
posted by octothorpe at 6:37 PM on May 5, 2015
It's been frustrating. Was traveling and working and such. Finally getting back to watching.
posted by octothorpe at 6:37 PM on May 5, 2015
I'm finally getting a chance to watch this. I'm only on episode 5 and I'm loving it for all the reasons. I spotted an Easter egg I haven't seen mentioned (I'm not reading ahead in Fanfare to avoid spoilers as much as possible.
The old sign painted on the glass in Foggy & Matt & Karen's office door is for van Lunt Real Estate.
Okay, I'm going back to watching now.
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 8:28 PM on August 10, 2015
The old sign painted on the glass in Foggy & Matt & Karen's office door is for van Lunt Real Estate.
Okay, I'm going back to watching now.
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 8:28 PM on August 10, 2015
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posted by kythuen at 6:11 AM on April 17, 2015 [1 favorite]