Daredevil: Speak of the Devil
May 1, 2015 3:05 AM - Season 1, Episode 9 - Subscribe
Matt fights a ninja! Karen and Foggy's meddling has consequences! Matt goes shopping for something to brighten up the apartment! Matt and Foggy take it to the next level!
I'm guessing Nobu/the Hand wanting a city block so badly is a set-up for the Shadowland storyline in the future. Makes sense with Netflix lining up a bunch of street-level Marvel character series. I haven't seen past episode 10 yet, so maybe this is made explicit later, but that's my guess.
posted by Sangermaine at 7:51 AM on May 1, 2015
posted by Sangermaine at 7:51 AM on May 1, 2015
I watched a couple of episodes last night and I can't remember which one this is even with the prompts in the post. I guess I shouldn't have done that and I'm going to have to take a few night off Daredevil til we catch up here. I don't want to give away THINGS that haven't happened yet by accident.
Stupid no impulse control
posted by Hoopo at 10:08 AM on May 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
Stupid no impulse control
posted by Hoopo at 10:08 AM on May 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
It's the one where Matt's fight with the red ninja in the warehouse is intercut with the back story of how he got there (death of Ms. Cardenas). It ends with Foggy discovering Matt in costume when Matt staggers back into his apartment.
posted by Sangermaine at 10:11 AM on May 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Sangermaine at 10:11 AM on May 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
I was kind of underwhelmed by that fight with the ninja. Compared to the show's other fight scenes, it seemed like standard, done to death action movie stuff.
However, I did really love the scene where Matt talks to Vanessa and meets Fisk face to face. Daredevil has really done a tremendous job of building Fisk up as a fully realized, three-dimensional person who isn't just a villain for no reason and who has meaningful, loving relationships with other people. Matt understanding that feels like the show's wholesale rejection of the possibility of Othering villains and antagonists.
I read a story once where a character asks someone else if they know what they want, and if they know the price they're willing to pay to get it, and takes the other character through the implications. You want this, so would you do this? Is this a step too far? No, what about this? And that's something that's stuck with me both in terms of my own writing (has this character thought this through? do they know the price they're willing to pay, or will the plot just demand it of them?) and in terms of evaluating other media. I think Daredevil does one of the best jobs of spooling out that question over a whole season, of having characters visibly grapple with it. This is Matt's origin story, and part of that origin is in him answering the question of "what is the price I am willing to pay to be Daredevil?" In shorter form origin stories, the answer to that question is usually just "my life," which is meaningful enough, but it's nice to see a thornier and more nuanced take on the question, one that involves seeing the antagonists as the subjects of their own stories rather than objects/obstacles in the protagonists' stories.
Also uuughhh there is so much other stuff I want to to talk about in terms of themes and characters stuff on the whole, but spoilers.
posted by yasaman at 12:18 PM on May 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
However, I did really love the scene where Matt talks to Vanessa and meets Fisk face to face. Daredevil has really done a tremendous job of building Fisk up as a fully realized, three-dimensional person who isn't just a villain for no reason and who has meaningful, loving relationships with other people. Matt understanding that feels like the show's wholesale rejection of the possibility of Othering villains and antagonists.
I read a story once where a character asks someone else if they know what they want, and if they know the price they're willing to pay to get it, and takes the other character through the implications. You want this, so would you do this? Is this a step too far? No, what about this? And that's something that's stuck with me both in terms of my own writing (has this character thought this through? do they know the price they're willing to pay, or will the plot just demand it of them?) and in terms of evaluating other media. I think Daredevil does one of the best jobs of spooling out that question over a whole season, of having characters visibly grapple with it. This is Matt's origin story, and part of that origin is in him answering the question of "what is the price I am willing to pay to be Daredevil?" In shorter form origin stories, the answer to that question is usually just "my life," which is meaningful enough, but it's nice to see a thornier and more nuanced take on the question, one that involves seeing the antagonists as the subjects of their own stories rather than objects/obstacles in the protagonists' stories.
Also uuughhh there is so much other stuff I want to to talk about in terms of themes and characters stuff on the whole, but spoilers.
posted by yasaman at 12:18 PM on May 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
So with the tenant subplot, I'm kind of fuzzy on what outcome they would have been satisfied with. Mrs. Cardenas says Fisk doubled the offer, but of course we the audience don't hear what the original offer was. What if it was tripled or quadrupled? Was there any point at which Foggy would have said, "You know, that's a good offer, you should just take it and move somewhere your landlord doesn't put holes in your walls"?
I guess that ambiguity is deliberate to keep it ambiguous whether they were being overly stubborn and fixated on punishing Fisk rather than helping their clients, and how far did Fisk really try to resolve this legally.
posted by RobotHero at 3:51 PM on May 1, 2015
I guess that ambiguity is deliberate to keep it ambiguous whether they were being overly stubborn and fixated on punishing Fisk rather than helping their clients, and how far did Fisk really try to resolve this legally.
posted by RobotHero at 3:51 PM on May 1, 2015
It was neat to see Matt go up against someone with basically the same training in this one, I thought; it keeps the show from just turning into Batman kicking the crap out of mooks and henchmen all the time. I did wish they'd given Nobu a more practical outfit to ninja around in, though; I know it wouldn't have worked to have two characters dressed in black, but in a world where Matt's wearing mostly random MMA gear it seems odd to have his stealthy opponent in what felt like a showy wushu outfit.
I'm kind of fuzzy on what outcome they would have been satisfied with
Well, strictly speaking, aren't they advocates for what Ms. Cardenas wants? She came in, said what she wanted was to fight to stay in the building, and Foggy/Karen just encouraged her along that path. (Also, for some reason I remember the initial offer being $10,000, but I could be mistaken.)
In reality, yes, I'd think they'd work on just negotiating a huge buy-out that would make it worthwhile for Ms. Cardenas to go elsewhere, but, y'know, superhero show.
posted by tautological at 5:03 PM on May 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
I'm kind of fuzzy on what outcome they would have been satisfied with
Well, strictly speaking, aren't they advocates for what Ms. Cardenas wants? She came in, said what she wanted was to fight to stay in the building, and Foggy/Karen just encouraged her along that path. (Also, for some reason I remember the initial offer being $10,000, but I could be mistaken.)
In reality, yes, I'd think they'd work on just negotiating a huge buy-out that would make it worthwhile for Ms. Cardenas to go elsewhere, but, y'know, superhero show.
posted by tautological at 5:03 PM on May 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
Mrs. Cardenas wasn't the only one left; she was pitched as sort of the lynchpin of the tenant resistance. So you have to multiply anything you were paying by enough to cover everyone else. If you imagine that as setting a precedent for all the residents on the block, it's unaffordable even for Fisk. Unfortunately for the show's internal logic, they said earlier this was the very last building so it seems they could have done something.
On the fight scene, I did love the way Fisk beating up Murdoch was filmed, as Fisk beats on the prone Murdoch. The windmilling arms and the look on his face are all rage, malice, and frustration vented against this one guy he couldn't control.
posted by mark k at 6:57 PM on May 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
On the fight scene, I did love the way Fisk beating up Murdoch was filmed, as Fisk beats on the prone Murdoch. The windmilling arms and the look on his face are all rage, malice, and frustration vented against this one guy he couldn't control.
posted by mark k at 6:57 PM on May 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
This is why I love James Franco: His voice is terrible. It's bland, it's "actor acting" stilted, awkward highschool drama club crap. He has an actual lisp.
EVERYTHING else he does on-screen is magic. His poise and presence, his amazing rubber-faced expressiveness harnessed into subtle shading of emotion.
Elden Henson makes two of them.
He could read the phone book, and I would be done and gone before "Aaron Aaronsen" - he could pantomime reading the phone book, and it would be the most captivating twenty hours of theatre. Foggy kicks so much ass, here.
Also in this ep, Matt happens to have one of the "Good Guy" Catholic priests at his Dad's old parish - which turns out to be an immense thing. The guy is smart, humble, clued-in, and relentlessly moral without judging. I knew a lot of 'em here in New England, so there's likely to be one in Noo Yawk. The Rwanda anecdote was too heavy-handed, but everything else was pitch perfect.
How perfect is Toby Leonard Moore? He has a voice like low-viscosity motor-oil and fine whiskey, and the snnnnneeeeer he gives Nobu when he threatens Fisk is electric. He's not an empty suit. He's a debauched and evil aspect of his Master's will, and it's always shocking and thrilling when he lets his villain flag fly, keeping the entrancing voice but using it to say terrible things...
Matt's finally killed someone. It was in self defense, but...
Wow, what an episode!
posted by Slap*Happy at 8:01 PM on May 6, 2015
EVERYTHING else he does on-screen is magic. His poise and presence, his amazing rubber-faced expressiveness harnessed into subtle shading of emotion.
Elden Henson makes two of them.
He could read the phone book, and I would be done and gone before "Aaron Aaronsen" - he could pantomime reading the phone book, and it would be the most captivating twenty hours of theatre. Foggy kicks so much ass, here.
Also in this ep, Matt happens to have one of the "Good Guy" Catholic priests at his Dad's old parish - which turns out to be an immense thing. The guy is smart, humble, clued-in, and relentlessly moral without judging. I knew a lot of 'em here in New England, so there's likely to be one in Noo Yawk. The Rwanda anecdote was too heavy-handed, but everything else was pitch perfect.
How perfect is Toby Leonard Moore? He has a voice like low-viscosity motor-oil and fine whiskey, and the snnnnneeeeer he gives Nobu when he threatens Fisk is electric. He's not an empty suit. He's a debauched and evil aspect of his Master's will, and it's always shocking and thrilling when he lets his villain flag fly, keeping the entrancing voice but using it to say terrible things...
Matt's finally killed someone. It was in self defense, but...
Wow, what an episode!
posted by Slap*Happy at 8:01 PM on May 6, 2015
How perfect is Toby Leonard Moore?
He is perfect. Really love his oily portrayal of the jackass in the suit. Have they explained his qualifications? I'd like to think he's a lawyer, to provide counterbalance to Matt, but if he had that credential I think they would have said so by now.
posted by Nelson at 10:39 AM on May 18, 2015
He is perfect. Really love his oily portrayal of the jackass in the suit. Have they explained his qualifications? I'd like to think he's a lawyer, to provide counterbalance to Matt, but if he had that credential I think they would have said so by now.
posted by Nelson at 10:39 AM on May 18, 2015
You're right that if he was a lawyer it would have come up. I'm going to say M.B.A.
posted by RobotHero at 1:57 PM on May 18, 2015
posted by RobotHero at 1:57 PM on May 18, 2015
It took until this episode that I realized who Toby Leonard Moore was reminding me of: Josh Charles.
posted by jjwiseman at 9:59 AM on June 18, 2018
posted by jjwiseman at 9:59 AM on June 18, 2018
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On the Murdock side, I'm becoming more confident that this is going to turn out to be one of my all-time favorite superhero origin stories. He started out by thrashing out at the criminal element, almost in a rage. Here we are beginning to see him find out what his personal code is, and also start to behave more intelligently.
posted by He Is Only The Imposter at 6:10 AM on May 1, 2015 [2 favorites]