Game of Thrones: Kill The Boy   Show Only 
May 10, 2015 10:15 PM - Season 5, Episode 5 - Subscribe

Daenerys Targaryen ponders motherhood. Grey Worm ponders fear. Stannis makes a move. Jon makes a decision. Roose plans the future. Ramsay plans a wedding. Sansa finds a frenemy. Aemon finds his family. Brienne puts out feelers. Jorah puts out unwanted guests. And Tyrion takes a bath.
posted by the man of twists and turns (107 comments total) 5 users marked this as a favorite
 
Dany really plays Fuck, Marry, Kill by her own set of rules.
posted by maggiepolitt at 10:20 PM on May 10, 2015 [35 favorites]


And Sansa realizes "fuck, this one's worse than Joffrey."
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 10:44 PM on May 10, 2015 [6 favorites]


So all the foreshadowing talk of grayscale and the Stone Men paid off.

No scenes at King's Landing this week; nothing in Dorne either.

I guess this season's Big Battle Episode is going to be Stannis attempting to take Winterfell?
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 10:59 PM on May 10, 2015


Hmm, not sure if Ramsey is worse than Joffrey. It might be that he doesn't have as many henchmen or as much power, especially if the Frey woman is really pregnant. Except for poor, poor ThReek.

I was kind of devastated on the kennel scene... And the dinner afterwards.
posted by sfkiddo at 11:27 PM on May 10, 2015


I was a little disappointed by Sansa in the dinner scene. Come on, Lady Stark, your mother trained you better than that. Wear your diplomacy like armor, until you can slaughter this whole horrible family in their sleep.
posted by KathrynT at 11:41 PM on May 10, 2015 [10 favorites]


Also, this:
"Less enemies for us!"

"Fewer."
Is where I fell in love with Stannis Baratheon.
posted by KathrynT at 11:56 PM on May 10, 2015 [48 favorites]


Wear your diplomacy like armor, until you can slaughter this whole horrible family in their sleep

Oh she will. She's still learning and understandably a bit shell shocked, but I figure everything we see here is but one more steeping stone to Queen Sansa, First Of Her Name, Giver of No Fucks, Widow Thrice Over, Etc.
posted by The Whelk at 12:30 AM on May 11, 2015 [10 favorites]


I did love Gilly having a bit of class awareness in the library just as Stannis like, figures out the basics of rational investigation was neat
posted by The Whelk at 12:37 AM on May 11, 2015 [4 favorites]


But you know, Mareen-side, there's a reason her family name is BLOOD AND FIRE and not BLOOD AND REASONABLE GOVERNMENT
posted by The Whelk at 12:38 AM on May 11, 2015 [14 favorites]


Also this episode is notable for making me give a damn about Castle Black which is hard to do.

man House Serial Killer is really fucked, like Dad Bolton is the only one holding it together which, considering what he's working with, is kind of amazing. Of all the players they're the least stable, the most out matched, and the ones least likely to be missed. All they've got going is nominally holding Winterfell while basically everyone who lives there plots against them and the fact that Ramsey is bloodthirsty mad enough to nominally keep things in line. That's something a good stiff breeze could topple and LO HERE COME THE FORCES OF LAWFUL GOOD, BRIENNE AND STANNIS, EYES FIXED ON WINTERFELL
posted by The Whelk at 12:46 AM on May 11, 2015 [3 favorites]


"Less enemies for us!"

Jon really should have driven home the point that every Wildling who dies north of the wall will become part of the Walker's undead army. Refusing to help the Wildlings just empowers the real enemy. He did mention it towards the end of the debate, but he should have been hammering on it over and over again, imo.
posted by homunculus at 1:18 AM on May 11, 2015 [11 favorites]


Isn't Stannis more Lawful Neutral?
posted by Justinian at 2:07 AM on May 11, 2015 [3 favorites]


Aemon Targaryen; "You will find little joy in your command, but with powder milk biscuits luck, you'll find the strength to do what needs to be done."
posted by paper chromatographologist at 4:00 AM on May 11, 2015 [3 favorites]


No scenes at King's Landing this week; nothing in Dorne either.
Or Braavos. I have a feeling they're going to make up for lost time next week.
posted by dfan at 4:59 AM on May 11, 2015


House Serial Killer and their pet Reek is my least favorite storyline, so I keep hoping that Sansa is going to come into her own power and agency and kill some fuckers. Or maybe just give that cold smile while they all burn.
posted by rmd1023 at 5:35 AM on May 11, 2015 [1 favorite]


One thing I didn't quite grok: Dany marrying that dude is supposed to help how, exactly? I guess long term if it gives her an ally she can trust who can control the city, it might get her out of Mereen --- please, please, with sugar on top --- but I'm not sure why the act of her marrying this dude would positively impact the attitude of the rest of the leading families vis a vis her rule, as opposed to them just being like "sucks to be you, buddy". I mean, give the dude five years to consolidate power, build up a patronage network, and people could gradually migrate over from fierce opposition to "worth sucking up to" but hopefully she's not going to stick around that long...
posted by maggiepolitt at 5:43 AM on May 11, 2015 [1 favorite]


It also takes the marriage chip off the table for the bigger game. I suppose that doesn't matter because I don't see Dany coupling up with anyone in King's Landing. She'll probably be bringing the dragons and that will cut down on the need to negotiate.
posted by rdr at 6:01 AM on May 11, 2015 [1 favorite]


That's something a good stiff breeze could topple and LO HERE COME THE FORCES OF LAWFUL GOOD, BRIENNE AND STANNIS, EYES FIXED ON WINTERFELL

Except you just KNOW that Brienne is going to nobly fuck things up, like killing Stannis on the cusp of victory or somesuch.
posted by leotrotsky at 6:20 AM on May 11, 2015 [4 favorites]


Also, this:
"Less enemies for us!"

"Fewer."


He did this before, back in season 1, during a meeting with Renlly. It was just as hilarious then. Of course Stannis is grammar nazi, OF COURSE.

Are you avoiding the books?

I read the first one and half of the second before deciding they were too long with long beats of meandering around the story.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:55 AM on May 11, 2015 [1 favorite]


[A couple comments deleted. Sorry, but commenting to start a general conversation about GoT watchers vs readers is a pretty big derail for a thread about a specific episode of the show.]
posted by taz at 6:58 AM on May 11, 2015 [4 favorites]


rmd1023: "House Serial Killer and their pet Reek is my least favorite storyline, so I keep hoping that Sansa is going to come into her own power and agency and kill some fuckers. Or maybe just give that cold smile while they all burn."

They're really the most uninteresting evil folks on the show.
posted by octothorpe at 7:21 AM on May 11, 2015


Stannis: ruler of men, and grammar.

When Jon was told to "Kill the boy" without elaboration for a short while, I imagined Jon was trying to figure out which boy Maester was talking about. "You mean Oliver? Well, he did shoot Ygritte in the back. Oh, me? The boy in me? Oh Maester, you and your metaphors."
posted by filthy light thief at 7:21 AM on May 11, 2015 [12 favorites]


Was I alone in expecting shrieking eels when Mormont and Tyrion were in their little boat in the middle of the ocean? I swore I heard some shrieking.

Which brings to mind: "Long sullen silences and the occasional punch in the face; the Mormont way" - one of the best lines from this episode.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:35 AM on May 11, 2015 [15 favorites]


They're really the most uninteresting evil folks on the show.

They really are. Ramsay is absolutely hypnoic to watch, because you're not never quite sure what he's going to do, how far he'll go. He's a cruel SOB, but highly intelligent and cunning. If anyone can defeat Stannis, it'll him and Roose.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:52 AM on May 11, 2015


Uninteresting? As in you aren't interested in them?

The maniacal glee of Ramsay is growing on me, in part because there hasn't been any flaying in a while. And I have to hand it to the writers and director regarding Ramsay's use of Theon to not so subtly threaten Sansa thrice in this episode: first, when Myranda tells Sansa there's a surprise from her past/family at the end of the dark kennel, full of aggressive dogs in cages; second, when Ramsay has ThReek tell Sansa he's sorry for killing her brothers, and then Ramsay decides ThReek should "give away" Sansa on her wedding day.

Now I'm wondering, who will break first - Sansa or ThReek? I keep hoping ThReek will bash Ramsay in the head with a wine pitcher, knowing full and well it'll be his own prolonged death, but I fear Ramsay's grooming of Reek is too deep, so I'm going with Sansa. Looking for parallels from Myranda's comment on Lady Cat giving Sansa skill with a needle, what did Eddard give her? Anything about paying your enemies their due? Maybe the support of the North, so she could call upon her people to revolt.

Unless that candle in the highest window is a ploy by Ramsay.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:14 AM on May 11, 2015 [3 favorites]


Yeah, I meant to disagree and say the Bolton's are THE most interesting evil people on the show.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:16 AM on May 11, 2015


Well Ramsey is interesting in that his carnival of sadism keeps adding new rings and he has seemingly no idea how to stop (plus, his evil Murder Brides) but the Boltons in general just seem so obviously doomed from the start.

Which means I'm totally wrong and they'll rule for a thousand years.
posted by The Whelk at 8:26 AM on May 11, 2015 [5 favorites]


I have to hand it to the writers and director regarding Ramsay's use of Theon to not so subtly threaten Sansa thrice in this episode: first, when Myranda tells Sansa there's a surprise from her past/family at the end of the dark kennel, full of aggressive dogs in cages; second, when Ramsay has ThReek tell Sansa he's sorry for killing her brothers, and then Ramsay decides ThReek should "give away" Sansa on her wedding day.

I only think only the second one was Ramsey's idea. We get that whole scene between him and his side piece where she's unhappy about Sansa and he's all, deal with it, p.s. I'll kill you if you piss me off, now let's fuck. It's immediately after that that she takes Sansa to the kennels. Theon then apologises to Ramsey for being seen and it seems like news to Ramsey that Sansa went to the kennels. I think Ramsey's girl was taking a bit of revenge by blowing the lid off the whole Ramsey being a psycho thing, her way of telling Sansa you ain't ready for this jelly. It's up to Ramsey then how to play it; he goes for brazening it out.
posted by maggiepolitt at 8:48 AM on May 11, 2015 [7 favorites]


General consensus amongst the queers I watch GoT with: Ramsay Snow Bolton is weirdly sexy. Poll of the room indicated that everyone would jump him.

Nobody would sleep over after, though, so
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 8:57 AM on May 11, 2015 [17 favorites]


The thing is the actor pulled the same trick in Misfits as the complete opposite, a painfully shy and awkward superhero who was also weirdly sexy.

I just keep wondering where he finds his shoe black hair dye in Winterfell.
posted by The Whelk at 9:05 AM on May 11, 2015 [3 favorites]


Jon really should have driven home the point that every Wildling who dies north of the wall will become part of the Walker's undead army. Refusing to help the Wildlings just empowers the real enemy. He did mention it towards the end of the debate, but he should have been hammering on it over and over again, imo.

Like our own world, reason and truth doesn't have much traction in Westeros.

For some reason I cannot help but think of Ramsay as one hell of an evil version of a young Paul McCartney.
posted by juiceCake at 9:05 AM on May 11, 2015 [1 favorite]


God, I hate the Boltons. You really had to go and fat shame pregnant Lady Bolton?? Like Joffrey, his mouth gets him into trouble, and like Joffrey his parent completely enables it. Unlike Joffrey, Ramsey seems like he is going to be impossible to kill. Like he'll be the proverbial cockroach who survives any apocalypse. I'm worried Stannis will be defeated at Winterfell because Jon Snow refused to do the deed that would've created a killer smoke monster baby with Melisandre. That, or Brienne will avenge Renly by killing Stannis at the exact wrong moment, allowing Ramsey to escape or something.

Silly me for momentarily thinking Sansa might have found one of the Stark dire wolves alive and well in that kennel-- I thought Myranda might have shut the kennel gate thinking the wolf would attack and maim Sansa. Instead, she found a flayed man there. Ugh, screw you, Boltons. Here's hoping ThReek at least tells Sansa the truth about her younger brothers.

Ser Jorah has the greyscale! Noooooo! And obviously though Stannis knows the maister who can cure it for his daughter, for some reason this treatment is not common knowledge throughout the realm because: reasons.

Seems like Dany is not taking a huge risk nor foreclosing any future opportunities by marrying her prisoner-- she can always have a dragon flambé him if things don't go well.
posted by hush at 9:45 AM on May 11, 2015 [1 favorite]


Silly me for momentarily thinking Sansa might have found one of the Stark dire wolves alive and well in that kennel

Me too!!! There's only 2 left right? John Snow's and the one that was set free in King's Landing back when Ned was alive?
posted by LizBoBiz at 9:49 AM on May 11, 2015 [4 favorites]


Rickon and Bran still have theirs.
posted by bgal81 at 9:52 AM on May 11, 2015 [3 favorites]


No direwolves made it to King's Landing. Nymeria, Arya's wolf, was driven off by Arya so she wouldn't be killed like Lady, long before they reached KL. So far unaccounted for. Summer (Bran's), Shaggydog (Rickon), and Ghost (Jon) are all alive.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 9:56 AM on May 11, 2015


Unless that candle in the highest window is a ploy by Ramsay.

Similar to his ploy about helping Theon escape back near the beginning? I could see it.
posted by corb at 10:07 AM on May 11, 2015 [1 favorite]



Unless that candle in the highest window is a ploy by Ramsay.
Similar to his ploy about helping Theon escape back near the beginning? I could see it.

Except that it was earlier foreshadowed by Brienne asking to get a message to Sansa.

It could be double fake out, but it's more plausible that it isn't, if only because everyone in the North hates the Boltons and loves the Starks.
posted by leotrotsky at 10:20 AM on May 11, 2015 [2 favorites]


Game of Thrones, Season 5, Episode 5: If They’re Wonderful, They’re About To Die - "A weekly conversation between an avid Game of Thrones fan, and someone who has actively avoided it until now."
Haley: Scaachi, DO NOT call Jorah Mormont handsome, he is THE WORST. In terms of a metaphor, Jorah Mormont has basically spent his entire life making bad decisions and feeling guilty about them, so I think it’s less a metaphor and more him finally learning that eventually you make a bad decision you can’t run away from or dwarf-bargain your way out of. (He used to be a slave trader.)

Scaachi: WHO IN THIS SHOW HASN’T BEEN TERRIBLE AT SOME POINT? It’s a really tall order to ask me to take into account the morality of every single character when they’re basically all murderers.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 10:21 AM on May 11, 2015 [1 favorite]


I feel like there's an important chunk missing from that whole Tyrion thing. It seems like they were rescued in the nick of time by their importance to the plot.
posted by Sys Rq at 10:21 AM on May 11, 2015 [2 favorites]


I hope this doesn't cross the streams--it was explained in more detail in the books.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 10:25 AM on May 11, 2015


And obviously though Stannis knows the maister who can cure it for his daughter, for some reason this treatment is not common knowledge throughout the realm because: reasons.

The way it has been brushed over has long made me suspect that "reasons" equates to "it wasn't a Maester who cured her". More fire priest shenanigans, perhaps? Or, something else that Stannis doesn't want to go telling the world about his involvement in?
posted by tocts at 10:26 AM on May 11, 2015 [4 favorites]


I hope this doesn't cross the streams--it was explained in more detail in the books.

Double hoping this doesn't cross streams - basically, in general, the books contain a relentless host of secondary and tertiary characters who show up and get important plot-moving parts. The showrunners have talked about how hard that is, from a television perspective, in a show that already has an enormous cast of characters. So in some cases, you're having some weird jerky movements that result from having Holes in the World because the showrunners don't want you to have to have a color-coded guide to identify everyone.
posted by corb at 10:30 AM on May 11, 2015 [1 favorite]


Right. Think of it this way: basically no book reader is crying out for the part that's missing here.
posted by Navelgazer at 10:41 AM on May 11, 2015 [2 favorites]


[Folks, I know people are trying to be careful but still, let's draw a line under the "what about the books" sideline here. Thanks.]
posted by LobsterMitten at 10:58 AM on May 11, 2015 [2 favorites]


Right. Think of it this way: basically no book reader is crying out for the part that's missing here.

Huh. Well, as a non-book-reader, it's a bit crap. Your characters can't be definitely about to die in one shot and then totally safe and fine (if slightly damp and scaly) in the next without so much as some getaway banjo music in between.
posted by Sys Rq at 11:05 AM on May 11, 2015 [6 favorites]


Stannis knows the maister who can cure it for his daughter

Maybe it was Qyburn and his ... unconventional ... ways.

I'm a little frustrated: we're halfway through the season and it feels like we're still in the table-setting phase. This time last season we'd already offed Joffrey and introduced Oberyn. This season nothing much significant has happened yet: Dany's story inches along, the Dorne plotlines are barely sketches yet, Arya's in the middle of a mysterious-yet-surprisingly-tedious training montage.

It feels a lot like the show's trying its hardest to build tension for an episode 9 Stannis-vs-Bolton setpiece battle and everything else is somewhat incidental.

(All that said: I really liked the depiction of Valyria. Those were some lovely shots. Although: what exactly was propelling Jorah's boat?)
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 11:05 AM on May 11, 2015 [7 favorites]


And obviously though Stannis knows the maister who can cure it for his daughter, for some reason this treatment is not common knowledge throughout the realm because: reasons.

I thought maybe it was like chickenpox in that it could be handled if you got it as a child, but as an adult it's deadly. Stone Man Shingles.
posted by GrapeApiary at 11:05 AM on May 11, 2015 [3 favorites]


what exactly was propelling Jorah's boat?

the power of an unlikely friendship
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 11:12 AM on May 11, 2015 [34 favorites]


Spite, silence, and a marked lack of wine.
posted by Navelgazer at 11:18 AM on May 11, 2015 [9 favorites]


Invisible Jesus. Those were his footprints in the sand in that next scene.
posted by Sys Rq at 11:26 AM on May 11, 2015 [3 favorites]


Jon really should have driven home the point that every Wildling who dies north of the wall will become part of the Walker's undead army. Refusing to help the Wildlings just empowers the real enemy. He did mention it towards the end of the debate, but he should have been hammering on it over and over again, imo.

I agree. Instead of starting out with the soft "won't you think of the Wildlings as people" and then getting to "oh BTW, anyone who dies can be brought back as nigh-unstoppable zombies, so less dead people on the north of the wall when the real terror of the White Walkers comes for us all, the better," scratch the first part and focus on the second.

Except the undead and White Walkers are semi-mythical to most folk, even those on the Wall, and are mentioned alongside with grumkins and snarks (GoT Wikia, no spoilers at the moment), so I can also see Jon trying to reason with people on logic and compassion (a doomed approach we all realize, and see first-hand) before getting into the stuff of legends.

But still you'd think those who survived the battle at Fist of the First Men would be telling their stories and gaining some traction. Though I can see that scary legends are easier to dismiss than the possibility that they're woefully unready to face everything that Winter will bring.

(I just argued myself back to Jon's losing proposition, it seems.)
posted by filthy light thief at 11:35 AM on May 11, 2015 [2 favorites]


I only think only the second [threat to Sansa with ThReek] was Ramsey's idea.

Ah, well put, and highly likely.

Is it silly that I was happy to see a bit of nearly-even gender nudity in this episode, even if Myranda showed off more typically hidden pieces than Ramsey? Topless ladies don't really compare 1:1 with topless dudes, but this episode was much better than past "naked ladies as set-pieces."
posted by filthy light thief at 11:40 AM on May 11, 2015 [2 favorites]


So are we going to get to watch Tyrion go through alcohol detox for the rest of the season?
posted by octothorpe at 11:46 AM on May 11, 2015


I'm pretty impressed that greyscale has managed to become a whole *thing*, and not just a non-plot-relevant reason for Shireen to be hidden away. As far as how Shireen was cured, I always (and still) assume(d) that Melisandre had something to do with it. That would also help to explain how she managed to get so close to Stannis in the first place.

Re: Jorah and Tyrion -- based on what I saw, I just assumed that Jorah managed to (mostly) get the upper hand on the Stone Men and saved himself (then Tyrion). I can easily see how that could have been written to include some form of deus ex machina (but appreciate that it wasn't). I can also see why they decided to cut the fight scene short -- that cut to black was pretty effective (and had Mr. Motion and I convinced that that was the end of the episode, until I looked at the clock). I would not be surprised if we get treated to a flashback from Jorah's point of view at some point.

Re: Winterfell -- I am on Team The Candle Is Not A Trap But Might Get Sansa Into Trouble Anyways. I honestly can't see how Ramsey would be able to get an elderwoman of Winterfell on his side to try to trick Sansa like that. He's got sway over Myranda and his cadre of previous bedwarmers, and he could probably dickmatize/terrorize some of the young folk. But I trust the Olds of Winterfell to be on the side of right.
posted by sparklemotion at 11:58 AM on May 11, 2015 [3 favorites]


Oh, and re: Jon Snow -- I've gotten in trouble for mentioning this theory before, but Aemon Targaryen talking about how awful it is for a Targaryen to be alone in the world RIGHT when Jon Snow walks in seems kind of like a huge wink in the direction of Jon being a matriarchal Stark.
posted by sparklemotion at 11:58 AM on May 11, 2015 [5 favorites]


Invisible Jesus. Those were his footprints in the sand in that next scene.

Surely you mean R'hllor?
posted by bgal81 at 12:15 PM on May 11, 2015


s far as how Shireen was cured, I always (and still) assume(d) that Melisandre had something to do with it. That would also help to explain how she managed to get so close to Stannis in the first place.

That would fit really well with the rest of that Rasputin-feel from her.
posted by Navelgazer at 12:37 PM on May 11, 2015 [4 favorites]


Re: Winterfell -- I am on Team The Candle Is Not A Trap But Might Get Sansa Into Trouble Anyways.

This. There seems to be an undercurrent of Bolton hate among the Northern proles. Last week one of the maids said "the North remembers" to Sansa, sort of out of nowhere. (hey, was that the same maid who delivered the message this week?) I feel like it's clear that this week's message originated with Brienne.

I'm kind of betting that something will drive Sansa to use that candle trick right about the time Stannis and his army show up, so that somehow her rescue gets tied in with the siege of Winterfell.
posted by dnash at 12:47 PM on May 11, 2015 [3 favorites]




As far as how Shireen was cured, I always (and still) assume(d) that Melisandre had something to do with it. That would also help to explain how she managed to get so close to Stannis in the first place.

I was under the impression that all happened before Melisandre showed up. I don't think she was around yet when Shireen was a baby.
posted by homunculus at 1:00 PM on May 11, 2015 [3 favorites]


There seems to be an undercurrent of Bolton hate among the Northern proles.

I remember this, too, but I'm worried at the fact that only the old folks in the castle seem to be the ones who tell anyone The North Remembers (bodes ill for any attempted uprising, unless the Bolton staff and army all gets poisoned stew), and I'm still skeptical of anything that happens in the New House of Bolton.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:01 PM on May 11, 2015 [1 favorite]


hey, was that the same maid who delivered the message this week?

I believe so, yes.

It's not that they hate the Boltons specifically (except inasmuch as they were the architects/prime movers at the Red Wedding), it's that they remember life under the Starks. A life that was hard, yet just and fair and honorable.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 1:05 PM on May 11, 2015 [1 favorite]


Mission creep
posted by homunculus at 1:20 PM on May 11, 2015 [5 favorites]


As far as how Shireen was cured, I always (and still) assume(d) that Melisandre had something to do with it. That would also help to explain how she managed to get so close to Stannis in the first place.
I was under the impression that all happened before Melisandre showed up. I don't think she was around yet when Shireen was a baby.


I'm having trouble finding sufficiently obsessively detailed fansites that are also spoiler safe, but based on the Game of Thrones Wikia, Shireen is about 15 in Season 5, which would put her at about 12 in 2 (when we first meet Melisandre) based on this timeline (Season 2 is 299 AL (after Aegon's Landing), Season 5 is 302).

The Wikia also says that Melisandre came to Stannis "some years ago."

Let's say Shireen is really only 13 now (I could totally buy that), that puts her at 10 when we meet Melisandre who had been around for "some years". I could see "some years" being 8 or 9, which would have her showing up around when Shireen was still a "baby."

I also think that there has got to be some kind of link between greyscale and the Lord of Light (aka the Fire God). Fire is associated with dragons, greyscale makes you look like a dragon. The greyscale lepers live in Valyria which is where all the dragons come from, etc.
posted by sparklemotion at 1:49 PM on May 11, 2015 [1 favorite]


Invisible Jesus

There's a visible one?
posted by juiceCake at 1:56 PM on May 11, 2015


There was once. Don't worry, they got him.
posted by Sys Rq at 2:00 PM on May 11, 2015 [8 favorites]


I saw my Jesus lying on a blanket next to a broken toaster oven.

Some guy was selling it.

I had to buy it off him.

(Invisible Jesus ... Invisible Jesus ...)

(more on topic, I did laugh my head off at Stannis the Grammarian. Because of course he is. A blast at parties!)
posted by tocts at 2:26 PM on May 11, 2015 [8 favorites]


I saw my Jesus lying on a blanket next to a broken toaster oven.

Some guy was selling it.


slow clap
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 2:32 PM on May 11, 2015 [5 favorites]


[Couple of comments deleted; sorry to be a stickler, but again, please don't bring books stuff in here even if it seems innocuous. Thanks.]
posted by LobsterMitten at 3:53 PM on May 11, 2015 [2 favorites]


Reek is as much a slave to Ramsey as Ramsey is to Roose. That was a nice juxtaposition. Ramsey's carrot was forgiveness and Roose's carrot was acknowledging Ramsey as his son.

As always, Daenerys looks great. That is all I can say about her.

The scene with Greyworm and his sorta girlfriend on the bed was really, really awkward.
posted by Ik ben afgesneden at 7:25 PM on May 11, 2015


the awkwardness was what gave me feels.
posted by Rat Spatula at 9:53 PM on May 11, 2015 [4 favorites]


The scene with Greyworm and his sorta girlfriend on the bed was really, really awkward.

I found it not awkward in the slightest--it was two people who have no idea how to say to each other what they both feel they need to say. Can you articulate what was awkward for you? I am intensely curious.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 10:11 PM on May 11, 2015 [2 favorites]


I'm a little frustrated: we're halfway through the season and it feels like we're still in the table-setting phase. This time last season we'd already offed Joffrey and introduced Oberyn. This season nothing much significant has happened yet...

Totally agree. I've defended the slowish pace of this show in seasons past, but the snail-crawl this season has become obnoxious. There's no reason for 5 episodes to have gone by with almost nothing happening.
posted by mediareport at 11:54 PM on May 11, 2015


I thought Myranda might have shut the kennel gate thinking the wolf would attack and maim Sansa.

I thought that too and was all excited for "yay direwolf!", but no.

Also I thought Myranda's line as Sansa entered (something like "you won't believe what's in there") was weirdly clickbaity. You Won't Believe What's In This Kennel! One Weird Trick For Taking Control Of The North! Boltons Hate Her!
posted by EndsOfInvention at 2:56 AM on May 12, 2015 [25 favorites]


Game of Thrones as told by Buzzfeed!
posted by suburbanbeatnik at 5:24 AM on May 12, 2015


With regard to the pace of the season, at least Arya wasn't in this episode. Her storyline is dragging.
posted by GrapeApiary at 7:29 AM on May 12, 2015


Reek is as much a slave to Ramsey as Ramsey is to Roose. That was a nice juxtaposition.

I wonder who taught Ramsey about grooming your lackeys? It's about carrots and sticks (or flaying knives, hot pincers and other torture devices, if you're Ramsey with Reek). Praise or punishment alone aren't as strong as the uncertainty of the reaction, the hope for reward with the fear of the worst (and vague threats let the recipient imagine their own tortures, often escalating when no "answer" is given to a puzzle like "what can someone do to me with a bag of mice and a handful of acorns?").


The scene with Greyworm and his sorta girlfriend on the bed was really, really awkward.

That might actually be a sign of the scene working well. As joyceanmachine wrote in the Books Included thread:
Brutal killing machine slowly discovering his remaining humanity and softer feelings, but at this early point, only being able to confess said softer feelings through describing fear/not-fear? Brilliant ex-slave whose life previously depended on her being able to speak all the languages, but now unable to express the depth of her feelings except with a wordless, nonverbal gesture?
Also, there's the general uncertainty on both their parts on what exactly they can do, with Grey Worm being Unsullied and incapable of taking part in the standard p-v sex acts. So they're both hesitant and slow to act, as they cross traditional boundaries that Dany upset when she threw the old order out the window.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:44 AM on May 12, 2015 [4 favorites]


I hope I'm wrong, but was Ramsey's comment "the North remembers" just sarcasm intended to hurt Sansa, or a subtle warning that he's aware of the population's support for her, and not to get any big ideas?
posted by Acey at 8:24 AM on May 12, 2015 [3 favorites]


Or could it be an indication that the maid who told Sansa to light the candle if she was ever in danger was acting on Ramsey's behalf?
posted by roolya_boolya at 9:31 AM on May 12, 2015 [1 favorite]


Oh god, I wish this was happening with anyone but Sansa, I am a gibbering wreck of nerves on her behalf.
posted by corb at 9:40 AM on May 12, 2015 [2 favorites]


I hope I'm wrong, but was Ramsey's comment "the North remembers" just sarcasm intended to hurt Sansa, or a subtle warning that he's aware of the population's support for her, and not to get any big ideas?

That scene is quite interesting and complicated, subtextually. The Boltons are well aware that they're loathed by the rest of the North; binding Sansa to their house is their best hope of quelling an otherwise inevitable rebellion. Getting Sansa to go along is the problem. It's unclear to me exactly how much room Sansa has to maneuver, but if she is not publicly seen to consent to the marriage then she remains a potential focus point for rebellion, and killing her then would only bring them back to square one --- and the Boltons know that Bran and Rickon are out there. To gain any real benefit from the alliance they need Sansa to consent and for her and Ramsey to produce a legitimate heir.

So Roose at least is trying to play nice to gain that end, and he needs Ramsey to a least pretend to be normal for a hot minute in order to pull that off. The Reek reveal blows that up by exposing Ramsey's sadism. Ramsey's clever enough to see this, so he chooses to go all in, I presume hoping that since Sansa now knows what he's capable of, she'll be afraid of him enough to knuckle under. Roose doesn't like this plan ("you disgraced yourself at dinner") and responds by undercutting Ramsey.

i'd be dead curious to know what the marriage laws are like in Westeros --- in actual medieval Europe, AFAIK, provable coercion was cause to nullify/annul a marriage and delegitimise heirs. No true "I do" no marriage in the eyes of God. Of course, there's the letter of the law and the practical fact of whose castle you're locked up in and how powerful they are.
posted by maggiepolitt at 10:02 AM on May 12, 2015 [5 favorites]


i'd be dead curious to know what the marriage laws are like in Westeros

Murder is mandatory.
posted by Sys Rq at 10:43 AM on May 12, 2015 [3 favorites]


Murder is mandatory.

That seems to be what everything is like in Westeros.
posted by localroger at 11:09 AM on May 12, 2015 [2 favorites]


maggiepolitt: Roose doesn't like this plan ("you disgraced yourself at dinner") and responds by undercutting Ramsey.

But only in private, after Ramsey asked about how his dad managed to impregnate Walda, and before Roose told Ramsey how he raped his mother, and how he almost killed Ramsey when he was a babe, only to end with "But then I looked at you and I saw then what I see now. You are my son." And then he invited Ramsey to help defeat Stannis.

In other words, Roose's response was heavily tempered, almost provided as a response to privately questioning how he could have sex with Walda (who he apparently likes well enough to keep happy and not torture for the idle fun of it), then used as a segue to Roose's power over Ramsey, but also his devotion to those he considers family. Stick and carrot, more grooming, but with an emphasis on the support and less on punishment.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:37 AM on May 12, 2015 [2 favorites]


Another thing that caught my attention was Stannis's comment that Winter could arrive at any moment. What's that going to look like? Does it start in the North and spread southward, or does it hit the whole country at the same time? I assume that most granaries aren't full thanks to the War of the Five Kings, and I'm looking forward to the "Oh, shit!" looks on the faces of people in King's Landing when it starts snowing. Maybe it will finally dawn on Cersei that this is not a good time to alienate the House which controls most of the food.
posted by homunculus at 11:45 AM on May 12, 2015 [2 favorites]


Back in the first season or two, Littlefinger said something about how there was enough food stored up to feed the peasants if Winter lasted for two years. "Any longer, and we've got fewer peasants" was his breezy report on the situation. I can't imagine it's better now. Small folk flooded King's Landing during the War of the Five Kings because they were already starving.
posted by Navelgazer at 11:57 AM on May 12, 2015 [2 favorites]


And I think that most of the farms in the Riverlands were destroyed during the war, so that was a big loss in food production which they all needed in order to be prepared.
posted by homunculus at 12:11 PM on May 12, 2015 [2 favorites]


Another thing that caught my attention was Stannis's comment that Winter could arrive at any moment.

And in "Sons of the Harpy," Stannis said they had to leave for Winterfell soon "to beat the snows," which made me think of an army of northern bastards.

Seasons in this universe are wonky, multi-year things, at least as people there keep track of "years."

Yes, this ongoing and far-reaching war, with lots of "burn it all and salt the earth" tactics are a really bad long-term plan with winter coming, more so with the predictions of a major/ hard/ long winter.
posted by filthy light thief at 12:15 PM on May 12, 2015 [2 favorites]


Not to mention a winter with the dead on the move.
posted by corb at 12:17 PM on May 12, 2015


Meh, no one in the southern lands believe all that talk about "winter" and "the dead coming back as nigh-unstoppable forces, set on killing every living man, woman and child." A bunch of stuff to scare the kiddies, like grumpkins and snarks.
posted by filthy light thief at 12:19 PM on May 12, 2015 [2 favorites]


Once Winter does arrive, I think HBO should change the schedule to have GoT on in Fall or Winter. It'd be more dramatic to watch when it's actually cold and dark outside.
posted by homunculus at 12:22 PM on May 12, 2015 [8 favorites]


In other words, Roose's response was heavily tempered, almost provided as a response to privately questioning how he could have sex with Walda (who he apparently likes well enough to keep happy and not torture for the idle fun of it),

I dunno, I think Roose Bolton of all people understands good and well what a heinously bad idea pissing off Walder Frey is.
posted by Pope Guilty at 12:41 PM on May 12, 2015 [3 favorites]


which made me think of an army of northern bastards.

Population statistics means there should be a hell of a lot of Snows, Stones, Rivers, Sands et al running around.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 12:46 PM on May 12, 2015


It's worth knowing that you only get the special name if you're a high-born bastard.
posted by Navelgazer at 12:57 PM on May 12, 2015




It's worth knowing that you only get the special name if you're a high-born bastard.

True, but with a few more noble men like the late King Robert, and you could raise an army of bastards without much trouble, which makes me think on the fucked up power dynamic of this universe between the high-born men and low-born women, and I get sad all over again about the gender dynamic of Westeros and beyond.

I dunno, I think Roose Bolton of all people understands good and well what a heinously bad idea pissing off Walder Frey is.

Eh, it seems that the world of the Freys only extend as a bubble around the Twins. They're not a powerful house, but numerous due to the Late Lord Frey's many wives and offspring. Robb would have been safe as long as he didn't go into Frey's home. And Lord Frey wouldn't have acted without support of the Lannisters, and the Boltons probably helped provide support to act. Now the Lannisters are in shambles, so the Boltons might be nearly on the same footing as the Freys.

But my point was that Roose seemed to actually like Walda, and not simply keep her as a pawn and piece to tie him to the Freys, but that definitely helps.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:11 PM on May 12, 2015 [1 favorite]


Murder is mandatory.

"Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory."
posted by RobotHero at 1:44 PM on May 12, 2015 [2 favorites]


I recall early in the series I didn't like Stannis. Now he's like the big hope.

I'm not sure if I expect him to die before he gets to fight the Boltons, whether he will die while fighting the Boltons, or whether he will beat the Boltons and become impossible to like for reasons not yet obvious. I feel like by the logic of this show it has to be one of those.
posted by Hoopo at 2:25 PM on May 12, 2015 [2 favorites]


Once Winter does arrive, I think HBO should change the schedule to have GoT on in Fall or Winter. It'd be more dramatic to watch when it's actually cold and dark outside.

That, or we temporarily move to the southern hemisphere.
posted by Acey at 2:56 PM on May 12, 2015 [1 favorite]


Can you articulate what was awkward for you? I am intensely curious.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 12:11 AM on May 12 [1 favorite +] [!]


When Missandei goes to kiss Greyworm she doesn't know where to sit on the bed or where to put her leg. It pulled me out of the scene and made me think about the size of the bed, the placement of Greyworm, and whether the actress or the actor was having the problem. It was a small moment, relatively speaking, but felt discordant.

Hey, for another, funnier look at Dany's betrothed, check out Plebs.
posted by Ik ben afgesneden at 6:04 PM on May 12, 2015 [1 favorite]


i'd be dead curious to know what the marriage laws are like in Westeros --- in actual medieval Europe, AFAIK, provable coercion was cause to nullify/annul a marriage and delegitimise heirs. No true "I do" no marriage in the eyes of God. Of course, there's the letter of the law and the practical fact of whose castle you're locked up in and how powerful they are.

Consider that Sansa didn't particularly want to marry Joffrey or Tyrion either, but she was betrothed to both of them. Seems unlikely that the Lannisters would arrange for her to marry Joffrey if it would risk deligitimising the heirs.
posted by Pink Frost at 6:18 PM on May 12, 2015


Consider that Sansa didn't particularly want to marry Joffrey or Tyrion either, but she was betrothed to both of them. Seems unlikely that the Lannisters would arrange for her to marry Joffrey if it would risk deligitimising the heirs.

Well, that sort of goes to the letter of the law/practical politics disjunction I'm driving at. The betrothal of Joffrey wasn't arranged by the Lannisters, it was arranged by Robert and Ned, and since both were minors my guess would be that their fathers' consent stands for their own. Letter of the law wise, they were probably fine there. And practically they held her as their prisoner/hostage --- but they couldn't have forced the wedding through so long as Robb and Catelyn were alive. Letter of the law wise the Lannisters were probably on much shakier ground with the marriage to Tyrion --- and indeed as soon as she escapes, Littlefinger basically handwaves it away as an issue, since there's no heir (also it was unconsummated and she's still a virgin, but Roose doesn't seem to bother to verify that, which suggests to me no heir=no problem, since it's not like Roose is squeamish).

Now the situation is different --- Sansa is no longer a minor, and has no official legal guardian whose consent can stand for her own. And practically speaking, unlike the situation during the war of the five kings, when her family's armies were hundreds of miles away, in Winterfell she's surrounded by potentially sympathetic Northern lords whose own sons would have much to gain from an alliance with the Starks --- rescue attempts are much more of a possibility. I think if Roose thought he could get away with simply bribing a priest and setting Ramsey to raping, he would have done it by now. Why wait, if force alone would be enough? The only reason I can see is the risk that if Sansa does get free or get a message out to her allies that she's being held against her will that it would undermine his claim to the North, which implies her consent is necessary for the marriage to be legitimate.

I mean, I may well be trying to create a coherent internal logic to a plot device which was simply invented to give Sansa something to do this season, and which will be wiped off the board in an episode or two when Stannis and/or Brienne show up. But Game of Thrones' world-building goes pretty deep, and how strong a claim Sansa and her heirs would have to Winterfell vis-a-vis other claimants does seem to hinge on this issue of legitimacy.
posted by maggiepolitt at 7:02 AM on May 13, 2015


Only me that assumed the disclosure of the pregnancy, or "pregnancy" perhaps, was an invite to Ramsey to dewifenate Roose for him? I was also a bit worried in the clickbaity (my thought exactly!) scene was that it would be the half mummified remains of dogRob.
posted by Iteki at 9:43 AM on May 13, 2015


> what exactly was propelling Jorah's boat?

> Spite, silence, and a marked lack of wine.

Sobriety makes the wind blow stronger.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:00 PM on May 13, 2015




And I think that most of the farms in the Riverlands were destroyed during the war, so that was a big loss in food production which they all needed in order to be prepared.

I thought this was one of the reasons for the whole Lannister-Tyrell alliance - Highgarden being something of a breadbasket makes it strategically important, but yeah. With the treasury wiped out with war and the Iron Bank calling in debts, things are looking pretty bleak with Winter Coming (and Nearly Here). War, food shortage, and unrest are exactly the kind of things that would drive a movement like the Sparrows.
posted by jquinby at 7:50 AM on May 17, 2015


Also, this:
"Less enemies for us!"

"Fewer."

He did this before, back in season 1, during a meeting with Renlly. It was just as hilarious then. Of course Stannis is grammar nazi, OF COURSE.


Here he is doing it with Davos.
posted by homunculus at 7:15 PM on June 3, 2015 [1 favorite]


« Older Mad Men: The Milk and Honey Ro...   |  The Good Wife: Wanna Partner?... Newer »

You are not logged in, either login or create an account to post comments