Fear the Walking Dead: The Dog
September 13, 2015 7:08 PM - Season 1, Episode 3 - Subscribe
After they escape a riot, Travis, Liza and Chris seek refuge with the Salazars while Madison defends her home.
The fall of LA still feels rushed, ridiculously chaotic and maddeningly unclear. If feels less like an actual chaotic situation and more like the writers are just throwing up a narrative smoke screen to avoid explaining things.
I think this is probably because of lack of budget. For example, having the electricity go off in most places is convincing short-hand for societal collapse, but there really isn't any reason for infrastructure to be breaking down yet. I also kept wondering why we weren't seeing news reports or radio reports but those things would cost money to produce.
But you're right, it is the best episode yet.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 7:37 PM on September 13, 2015
I think this is probably because of lack of budget. For example, having the electricity go off in most places is convincing short-hand for societal collapse, but there really isn't any reason for infrastructure to be breaking down yet. I also kept wondering why we weren't seeing news reports or radio reports but those things would cost money to produce.
But you're right, it is the best episode yet.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 7:37 PM on September 13, 2015
Still watching it with the room mate. The military at least leads to the possibility of something interesting happening.
posted by codacorolla at 7:45 PM on September 13, 2015
posted by codacorolla at 7:45 PM on September 13, 2015
I am so sad about the dog.
posted by hush at 1:58 AM on September 14, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by hush at 1:58 AM on September 14, 2015 [3 favorites]
I do like that show has set up a dynamic between Madison and Travis about which of them is willing and able to face up to the reality of the situation. Madison doesn't give a shit about Travis's ex-wife being there, she realizes it doesn't mean much to the larger situation. All she wants from the ex is a promise that she'll kill Madison if she has to, because Travis is too kind hearted to either A) do it or B) do it and emotionally move on. It's an interesting and welcome reversal of gender tropes and shows some potential for the show.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 3:57 AM on September 14, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 3:57 AM on September 14, 2015 [5 favorites]
I think they may be setting Travis up as some sort of pacifist.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:26 AM on September 14, 2015
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:26 AM on September 14, 2015
I will never understand the "keep my kid ignorant of something that can kill them"- motivation.
Also, if the teen daughter is so smart (Berkeley!) why is she wearing short shorts while evacuating from the apocalypse? Also, I'm REALLY hoping she cuts her flowing locks, given the hair grab by Zombie!Susan. Remember Lee's words of wisdom: keep that hair short.
Neighbors Zombie!Susan and Daniel(?) have the most complicated backyard ever.
Every time I see a plane in this show, I think it's the 30-min special plane.
Poor doggie. :(
posted by longdaysjourney at 7:39 AM on September 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
Also, if the teen daughter is so smart (Berkeley!) why is she wearing short shorts while evacuating from the apocalypse? Also, I'm REALLY hoping she cuts her flowing locks, given the hair grab by Zombie!Susan. Remember Lee's words of wisdom: keep that hair short.
Neighbors Zombie!Susan and Daniel(?) have the most complicated backyard ever.
Every time I see a plane in this show, I think it's the 30-min special plane.
Poor doggie. :(
posted by longdaysjourney at 7:39 AM on September 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
Also I really love Rubén Blades's barber and Elizabeth Rodriguez's nurse. It's so refreshing to see characters that aren't complete idiots. Hope they stay alive for a long, long time.
posted by longdaysjourney at 7:44 AM on September 14, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by longdaysjourney at 7:44 AM on September 14, 2015 [3 favorites]
Also, if the teen daughter is so smart (Berkeley!) why is she wearing short shorts while evacuating from the apocalypse?
It's going to be hot out in the desert.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:00 AM on September 14, 2015
It's going to be hot out in the desert.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:00 AM on September 14, 2015
Yes, it was the best episode yet but if the next episode isn't really good I may give up. I don't like to hate-watch things.
What is that chamber of horror maze they have in their backyard? It's like it was built especially to make the zombie apocalypse more scary. I would probably go to the neighbor's house via the front door if I had a scary grape arbor maze with dangling thingies that made scary shadows at night.
Speaking of zombies, they never ever use that word in this show or the Walking Dead. You'd think someone would have by now said "Man, these things sure do look like zombies!"
I was convinced the kid was going to get shot by the military when he was wandering around the houses trying to open a window. He looked a bit zombie-like, all pale and bug-eyed.
Kids, don't wear short shorts during society's collapse. Maybe find some cargo shorts or something.
That LA riot seemed kind of localized. They managed to get away from it and find the truck still parked where it was and had a clean route out of these.
The military showing up made the show better for some reason but you know it's all going to go south very quickly.
posted by bondcliff at 8:08 AM on September 14, 2015
What is that chamber of horror maze they have in their backyard? It's like it was built especially to make the zombie apocalypse more scary. I would probably go to the neighbor's house via the front door if I had a scary grape arbor maze with dangling thingies that made scary shadows at night.
Speaking of zombies, they never ever use that word in this show or the Walking Dead. You'd think someone would have by now said "Man, these things sure do look like zombies!"
I was convinced the kid was going to get shot by the military when he was wandering around the houses trying to open a window. He looked a bit zombie-like, all pale and bug-eyed.
Kids, don't wear short shorts during society's collapse. Maybe find some cargo shorts or something.
That LA riot seemed kind of localized. They managed to get away from it and find the truck still parked where it was and had a clean route out of these.
The military showing up made the show better for some reason but you know it's all going to go south very quickly.
posted by bondcliff at 8:08 AM on September 14, 2015
Neighbors Zombie!Susan and Daniel(?) have the most complicated backyard ever.
I thought the same thing and wondered why the daughter decided to go through that maze instead of using the front door.
posted by LizBoBiz at 8:12 AM on September 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
I thought the same thing and wondered why the daughter decided to go through that maze instead of using the front door.
posted by LizBoBiz at 8:12 AM on September 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
It's going to be hot out in the desert.
Yeah, first thought on my mind would be avoiding sunburn.
posted by longdaysjourney at 8:15 AM on September 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
Yeah, first thought on my mind would be avoiding sunburn.
posted by longdaysjourney at 8:15 AM on September 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
Yeah, first thought on my mind would be avoiding sunburn.
And mess up her tan?!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:17 AM on September 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
And mess up her tan?!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:17 AM on September 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
I thought the same thing and wondered why the daughter decided to go through that maze instead of using the front door.
Or actually just run out the driveway into her driveway next door. Maybe I'm just confused about the layout of their neighborhood?
posted by LizBoBiz at 8:38 AM on September 14, 2015
Or actually just run out the driveway into her driveway next door. Maybe I'm just confused about the layout of their neighborhood?
posted by LizBoBiz at 8:38 AM on September 14, 2015
I just had to eventually give up and assume that their backyard butted up to Zombie Maze Backyard, but to get from their front door to the Zombie Maze Backyard House front door would require going down the street until you could find a place to turn, then driving back up the next street. You know, a subdivision layout.
This assumption was fucked by the fact that they could see their front driveway (and the truck pulling in) from a ZMBH window, but couldn't run out the front of the house to get there. It was further fucked by the 'driving away from the house' scene and the fact that Madison had to only take one left turn to get a direct view of the front ZMBH driveway. The show's creators obviously didn't give a shit about the physical relationship between the two buildings, instead opting to forego giving the viewers any opportunity to create a sense of a spatial whole.
But hey, Christopher Nolan can't supply good spatial relationships in a blockbuster movie so why should I expect television directors to even try, when all they really want is a good Zombie Maze Backyard to artificially escalate the tension?
(no, I am not totally hate-watching this show, why?)
posted by komara at 9:23 AM on September 14, 2015
This assumption was fucked by the fact that they could see their front driveway (and the truck pulling in) from a ZMBH window, but couldn't run out the front of the house to get there. It was further fucked by the 'driving away from the house' scene and the fact that Madison had to only take one left turn to get a direct view of the front ZMBH driveway. The show's creators obviously didn't give a shit about the physical relationship between the two buildings, instead opting to forego giving the viewers any opportunity to create a sense of a spatial whole.
But hey, Christopher Nolan can't supply good spatial relationships in a blockbuster movie so why should I expect television directors to even try, when all they really want is a good Zombie Maze Backyard to artificially escalate the tension?
(no, I am not totally hate-watching this show, why?)
posted by komara at 9:23 AM on September 14, 2015
Still don't know how it is spread, even in The Walking Dead, and she walks up to Susan with the hammer or whatever it was, and just stands there. There is nothing noteworthy about this show. It really shows how much power the Walking Dead has, because this show clearly is Webisode caliber.
They aren't doing anything interesting. There is no twist about the origin of the disease that you wouldn't have thought up. Almost all of the characters are throwaway.
There could be some really interesting plot lines, but they seem to have just thrown in the towel and hoped that dark scenes and your own imagination would take over.
3 episodes in, half their season gone by, and this show is such a disappointment for me.
posted by cashman at 9:55 AM on September 14, 2015 [4 favorites]
They aren't doing anything interesting. There is no twist about the origin of the disease that you wouldn't have thought up. Almost all of the characters are throwaway.
There could be some really interesting plot lines, but they seem to have just thrown in the towel and hoped that dark scenes and your own imagination would take over.
3 episodes in, half their season gone by, and this show is such a disappointment for me.
posted by cashman at 9:55 AM on September 14, 2015 [4 favorites]
Honestly, I thought that Alycia ran back through the ZMB because she knew they'd dropped the ammo needed for loading the shotgun they "borrowed" (which I think had just one chambered? I dunno, I can re-watch and pause later today) and because she was freaking out, she couldn't remember exactly where that box of shells had fallen.
Also, I'm not a native Californian but the ZMB reminded me very much of a grapevine/trellis garden, which I've seen people in Texas use for everything from growing grapes to honeysuckle to tomatoes along the fences around their properties. I don't think I've ever seen one with a layout quite THAT complicated, but with the drought/watering restrictions currently in CA, it makes sense that you'd want them arranged as compactly as possible (provided the plants can still get enough sunshine).
That said, it's also a hell of a fire hazard and I'd suspect breaks many city codes for a suburban neighborhood in Los Angeles.
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 10:33 AM on September 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
Also, I'm not a native Californian but the ZMB reminded me very much of a grapevine/trellis garden, which I've seen people in Texas use for everything from growing grapes to honeysuckle to tomatoes along the fences around their properties. I don't think I've ever seen one with a layout quite THAT complicated, but with the drought/watering restrictions currently in CA, it makes sense that you'd want them arranged as compactly as possible (provided the plants can still get enough sunshine).
That said, it's also a hell of a fire hazard and I'd suspect breaks many city codes for a suburban neighborhood in Los Angeles.
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 10:33 AM on September 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
I'm loving the fact that we have two blended families and a tagalong family (the Salazars) whom I feel equally invested in, but I dread Mrs. Salazar's passing from that crushed and infected leg. Ruben Blades may be acting like everything's going to be okay, but he knows it's not -- he's just trying to keep his wife calm until he can figure something out. His daughter knows things aren't going to get better, but he's just trying to make his wife get some rest instead of making herself sicker and weaker from worrying. You can't blame him for that, I think all of us would be similarly conflicted in his situation.
I am guessing he won't hesitate to put a bullet in his wife's brain after she turns, though. At that point, he and his daughter will have to strike out on their own. Or, it's possible they'll get transferred to the same detention center as Maddie and Travis' family are in, provided they aren't quarantined or terminated due to exposure from the infected.
Surely someone will notice that corpses are turning without any previous exposure once they're segregated from the general populace by the military, yes?
After seeing 28 Days Later, there's no way in hell I'd feel safer under military quarantine during an outbreak. If anything, I'd constantly be on the lookout for possible escape routes to somewhere that people don't generally congregate.
The road to Las Vegas must be bumper-to-bumper by now...
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 10:43 AM on September 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
I am guessing he won't hesitate to put a bullet in his wife's brain after she turns, though. At that point, he and his daughter will have to strike out on their own. Or, it's possible they'll get transferred to the same detention center as Maddie and Travis' family are in, provided they aren't quarantined or terminated due to exposure from the infected.
Surely someone will notice that corpses are turning without any previous exposure once they're segregated from the general populace by the military, yes?
After seeing 28 Days Later, there's no way in hell I'd feel safer under military quarantine during an outbreak. If anything, I'd constantly be on the lookout for possible escape routes to somewhere that people don't generally congregate.
The road to Las Vegas must be bumper-to-bumper by now...
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 10:43 AM on September 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
Still don't know how it is spread, even in The Walking Dead, and she walks up to Susan with the hammer or whatever it was, and just stands there.
Eh, it's clear she was contemplating bashing the zombie's head in, but Travis, dear sweet Travis, talked her out it.
I quite liked the fact that Madison studied one up close, makes sense, trying to see what this thing, whether there's any hope to save the person you knew. Remember, she's already killed her boss/friend, Principal Joe, back at the school, something none of her family knows she did. So she's wrestling with that guilt and horror and trying to find another way out or see if her actions were justified. More of that, please!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:02 AM on September 14, 2015 [3 favorites]
Eh, it's clear she was contemplating bashing the zombie's head in, but Travis, dear sweet Travis, talked her out it.
I quite liked the fact that Madison studied one up close, makes sense, trying to see what this thing, whether there's any hope to save the person you knew. Remember, she's already killed her boss/friend, Principal Joe, back at the school, something none of her family knows she did. So she's wrestling with that guilt and horror and trying to find another way out or see if her actions were justified. More of that, please!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:02 AM on September 14, 2015 [3 favorites]
That LA riot seemed kind of localized. They managed to get away from it and find the truck still parked where it was and had a clean route out of these.
In some ways, that seems about right. I live in downtown Los Angeles, but when there have been riots/protests/whatever at places like around Staples Center (a mile or so from me) or City Hall (just a few blocks), they really can be quite localized events. Just getting around a corner to the right block can make all the difference.
I thought the same thing and wondered why the daughter decided to go through that maze instead of using the front door.
The houses were connected via their backyards. The driveway for Patrick and Susan's house was down the street and around the corner. This is in East LA, which isn't exactly subdivision-grid-clean, so again, didn't seem unreasonable to me.
posted by jimw at 1:36 PM on September 14, 2015
In some ways, that seems about right. I live in downtown Los Angeles, but when there have been riots/protests/whatever at places like around Staples Center (a mile or so from me) or City Hall (just a few blocks), they really can be quite localized events. Just getting around a corner to the right block can make all the difference.
I thought the same thing and wondered why the daughter decided to go through that maze instead of using the front door.
The houses were connected via their backyards. The driveway for Patrick and Susan's house was down the street and around the corner. This is in East LA, which isn't exactly subdivision-grid-clean, so again, didn't seem unreasonable to me.
posted by jimw at 1:36 PM on September 14, 2015
Oh, yeah, about the riot seeming localized... I've gotten lost in Tokyo and found myself literally pushed around by crowds in and around Shibuya or Harajuku, then stumbled into an empty alleyway or quiet suburban street (or hell, one time it was a forest!) and was shocked at how abandoned and lifeless it all felt. Take 10 steps one way, thronging crowd; 10 steps another direction, no visible or audible people/animals/cars. It's creepy as hell, but it's bound to happen in other cities of similar size and population.
So, +1 for them navigating that riot all the way back to Travis' truck. I think the group staying focused and moving loosely without holding onto each other helped, but not running into any Zeds along the way seemed almost odd to me. I know they showed that one dude in riot gear getting his face chewed off, and we know how that all turns out. But surely there were dozens of Zeds amongst the rioters, yeah?
Having emigrated with his wife from El Salvador and therefore being Wise in Terrible Things That Can Happen to Humanity, I really think Mr. Salazar may be this series' "Daryl" (whither Tobias though, y'all?) -- but with the ratings slipping 12% since last week's 19% drop over the record-breaking premiere, who knows?
I won't be surprised if football finally dethrones Robert Kirkman on Sunday nights, but only until TWD's back on the air again in October.
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 3:19 PM on September 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
So, +1 for them navigating that riot all the way back to Travis' truck. I think the group staying focused and moving loosely without holding onto each other helped, but not running into any Zeds along the way seemed almost odd to me. I know they showed that one dude in riot gear getting his face chewed off, and we know how that all turns out. But surely there were dozens of Zeds amongst the rioters, yeah?
Having emigrated with his wife from El Salvador and therefore being Wise in Terrible Things That Can Happen to Humanity, I really think Mr. Salazar may be this series' "Daryl" (whither Tobias though, y'all?) -- but with the ratings slipping 12% since last week's 19% drop over the record-breaking premiere, who knows?
I won't be surprised if football finally dethrones Robert Kirkman on Sunday nights, but only until TWD's back on the air again in October.
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 3:19 PM on September 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
I heard on a podcast that the actor who played Tobias was only in episodes 1 and 2 which is a shame. He was the most interesting character in my opinion.
posted by pearlybob at 4:46 PM on September 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by pearlybob at 4:46 PM on September 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
Y'all can hate, but the no-face Zombie dispatch by Mr. Salazar is what zombie gold is made of
posted by angrycat at 6:11 PM on September 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by angrycat at 6:11 PM on September 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
Well, at least give Travis credit for having the foresight to have a pickup truck so shitty that he can leave it parked in the street in the middle of a rioting zombie feeding/looting frenzy/firestorm, and it's still not only there but utterly untouched like eight hours later while people are randomly smashing anything they can find and the city burns around it.
Also, didn't anyone tell the soldiers, hey, we've got a woman who needs medical attention? (and no, she hasn't been exposed! It's a perfectly normal injury.) Because they checked inside the house, but it didn't look like they did anything for her.
posted by Naberius at 10:00 PM on September 14, 2015 [5 favorites]
Also, didn't anyone tell the soldiers, hey, we've got a woman who needs medical attention? (and no, she hasn't been exposed! It's a perfectly normal injury.) Because they checked inside the house, but it didn't look like they did anything for her.
posted by Naberius at 10:00 PM on September 14, 2015 [5 favorites]
I would love to see the piece spracan-soldier produced. He was at it for minutes, I couldn't stop staring. Have no idea what happened in the foreground of that scene.
posted by Iteki at 12:35 AM on September 15, 2015
posted by Iteki at 12:35 AM on September 15, 2015
Not happy with the writing thus far, but still hanging in for the occasional good scene and hoping it gets better.
Ruben Blades is my new favorite: "Good people are the first ones to die."
Junkie son is way too peppy as the life of the Monopoly party. Shouldn't he either be feeling the opiates or suffering partial withdrawal, or both? Also why has he never changed out of those ridiculous clothes?
posted by p3t3 at 2:00 AM on September 15, 2015 [2 favorites]
Ruben Blades is my new favorite: "Good people are the first ones to die."
Junkie son is way too peppy as the life of the Monopoly party. Shouldn't he either be feeling the opiates or suffering partial withdrawal, or both? Also why has he never changed out of those ridiculous clothes?
posted by p3t3 at 2:00 AM on September 15, 2015 [2 favorites]
Yeah the undamaged truck surrounded by cars on fire (although yeah a few untouched motorbikes too) bugged me a ton. And I don't know my LA geography much/at all, but would you drive up into the hills, to see the city lights go out, in order to get from downtown LA to east LA? I thought maybe they lived in the Valley instead.
They keep making decisions that really bug, with flimsy reasoning. Staying in the house because it's dark outside instead of getting out and going to the desert? Does the truck not have headlights?
Everything so far has taken place in 24 hours, right? I don't want to rewatch to check. Maybe just over, since it was night when Travis went back to the junkie palace.
posted by tracicle at 7:31 AM on September 15, 2015
They keep making decisions that really bug, with flimsy reasoning. Staying in the house because it's dark outside instead of getting out and going to the desert? Does the truck not have headlights?
Everything so far has taken place in 24 hours, right? I don't want to rewatch to check. Maybe just over, since it was night when Travis went back to the junkie palace.
posted by tracicle at 7:31 AM on September 15, 2015
I want the junkie son to die immediately. Of all the things that annoy me about this show, he is by far the worst and may be the thing that makes me stop watching. I could not possibly care less about watching him go through withdrawal during a zombie apocalypse.
posted by gatorae at 8:37 AM on September 15, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by gatorae at 8:37 AM on September 15, 2015 [5 favorites]
Like cashman, I'm out.
I made it through 2.5 episodes before bailing.
When it comes to zombie encounters, these folks are acting like the dude getting all up in the space cobra's face in Prometheus except they are all wearing full plate mithril plot armor. I just can't take anymore of them grappling with zombies and walking away without so much as a scratch. Not to mention how battle hardened they all are: instead of failing a morale check and fleeing after attempts to dispatch a zombie like you would a normal human prove ineffective, they engage until their opponent is killed and then walk away all hard as a coffin nail.
Carol, Andrea, and a few others in the parent series all took a while to overcome their pre-apoc behavioral patterns and skill deficits. These folks have already reached boring invincible hero status for me.
So, I'm out.
posted by lord_wolf at 9:16 AM on September 15, 2015 [4 favorites]
I made it through 2.5 episodes before bailing.
When it comes to zombie encounters, these folks are acting like the dude getting all up in the space cobra's face in Prometheus except they are all wearing full plate mithril plot armor. I just can't take anymore of them grappling with zombies and walking away without so much as a scratch. Not to mention how battle hardened they all are: instead of failing a morale check and fleeing after attempts to dispatch a zombie like you would a normal human prove ineffective, they engage until their opponent is killed and then walk away all hard as a coffin nail.
Carol, Andrea, and a few others in the parent series all took a while to overcome their pre-apoc behavioral patterns and skill deficits. These folks have already reached boring invincible hero status for me.
So, I'm out.
posted by lord_wolf at 9:16 AM on September 15, 2015 [4 favorites]
So after last week's episode showing how police violence is totally necessary, I'm sure this week they'll tone back on...
Wait...
Did one of the rioters just shout "ghetto Christmas, y'all"?
I...
I understand that The Walking Dead has not historically been great about black lives mattering, but I feel like this spin-off is saying some really poorly considered and even more poorly veiled things about Black Lives Matter.
posted by Parasite Unseen at 8:40 PM on September 15, 2015 [3 favorites]
Wait...
Did one of the rioters just shout "ghetto Christmas, y'all"?
I...
I understand that The Walking Dead has not historically been great about black lives mattering, but I feel like this spin-off is saying some really poorly considered and even more poorly veiled things about Black Lives Matter.
posted by Parasite Unseen at 8:40 PM on September 15, 2015 [3 favorites]
My wife and I are grudge-watching this - it isn't hate yet, but we're not 100% on board. I can't even keep the character's names straight, and to be honest, I'm not sure I care enough to pay more attention.
Part of the problem is that they chose to do an in-world prequel series after five seasons full zombie apocalypse. The Walking Dead has a certain level of tension due to where everyone has come, while this new series has to build tension from the uncertainty and a handful of zombies (I think we've seen less than 10 now).
pearlybob: I heard on a podcast that the actor who played Tobias was only in episodes 1 and 2 which is a shame. He was the most interesting character in my opinion.
I called it! Tobias was this show's angry sea captain/ hillbilly who warns the rascally teens "you're all gonna die!" in the beginning horror movies, but you never see again. I agree, he was one of the better characters, and I was hoping he'd be a more effective young Eugene. He seemed to have a good idea of how things would collapse. I hope he has his own mini-spin-off.
Ray Walston, Luck Dragon: I think they may be setting Travis up as some sort of pacifist.
Will he be this show's Hershel, who first believes there's a way to bring the humanity back to the undead, or Lizzie, who thinks the zombies are her misunderstood friends?
Honestly, the one line that gave me hope for this show was the last one, spoken in Spanish by Daniel Salazar to his wife, while he peers through the blinds at the military people in the street: "It's already too late." And earlier in the episode, why did Daniel say "If you burn him, the sickness will not spread." Did they survive some outbreak before? Like a zombie outbreak? That's what I'm hoping to see - this isn't the first occurrence, but simply the first time it blew up like this.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:51 AM on September 16, 2015 [1 favorite]
Part of the problem is that they chose to do an in-world prequel series after five seasons full zombie apocalypse. The Walking Dead has a certain level of tension due to where everyone has come, while this new series has to build tension from the uncertainty and a handful of zombies (I think we've seen less than 10 now).
pearlybob: I heard on a podcast that the actor who played Tobias was only in episodes 1 and 2 which is a shame. He was the most interesting character in my opinion.
I called it! Tobias was this show's angry sea captain/ hillbilly who warns the rascally teens "you're all gonna die!" in the beginning horror movies, but you never see again. I agree, he was one of the better characters, and I was hoping he'd be a more effective young Eugene. He seemed to have a good idea of how things would collapse. I hope he has his own mini-spin-off.
Ray Walston, Luck Dragon: I think they may be setting Travis up as some sort of pacifist.
Will he be this show's Hershel, who first believes there's a way to bring the humanity back to the undead, or Lizzie, who thinks the zombies are her misunderstood friends?
Honestly, the one line that gave me hope for this show was the last one, spoken in Spanish by Daniel Salazar to his wife, while he peers through the blinds at the military people in the street: "It's already too late." And earlier in the episode, why did Daniel say "If you burn him, the sickness will not spread." Did they survive some outbreak before? Like a zombie outbreak? That's what I'm hoping to see - this isn't the first occurrence, but simply the first time it blew up like this.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:51 AM on September 16, 2015 [1 favorite]
I want the junkie son to die immediately. Of all the things that annoy me about this show, he is by far the worst and may be the thing that makes me stop watching. I could not possibly care less about watching him go through withdrawal during a zombie apocalypse.
Are you kidding? zombie-junkie Johnny Depp Jr. is the best! Why? Because he's the best zombie in this show, after Su-Su (we'll miss you). Seriously, there were a couple times in this episode where I thought he was a zombie. Once, he was by the back door when Travis was wrestling with zombie Peter, and later he was sitting in the back seat when his mom got in their car. Also, he's one of the characters who understands that the zombies are no longer people, and he knew the Trans had their shotgun, so he's far from useless.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:57 AM on September 16, 2015 [3 favorites]
Are you kidding? zombie-junkie Johnny Depp Jr. is the best! Why? Because he's the best zombie in this show, after Su-Su (we'll miss you). Seriously, there were a couple times in this episode where I thought he was a zombie. Once, he was by the back door when Travis was wrestling with zombie Peter, and later he was sitting in the back seat when his mom got in their car. Also, he's one of the characters who understands that the zombies are no longer people, and he knew the Trans had their shotgun, so he's far from useless.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:57 AM on September 16, 2015 [3 favorites]
FLT, I took the Salazars' Spanish-only convo to reference events from the Salvadoran Civil War, which included sweeping civilian roundups during sustained guerrilla attacks that resulted in some of the most horrific mass killings in recorded history.
from the Wiki entry:
Also, Salvadorans were massacred in churches during worship. Daniel said that good people die first -- meaning, good people that help each other can mobilize groups and protect others, so of course they're doing to die first. People who put themselves in harm's way to protect children, possessions, etc. are going to get bit, killed by looters or shot by the military, most likely.
The Survivor motto of "outwit, outplay, outlast" would probably be your best strategy for successfully navigating the Zompocalypse.
This may be the one time in the TWD storyline where huddling in a bunker would help you ride out the worst of it, but if you pick a heavily populated area to hide in during the initial outbreak, you're basically fucked. Only Glenn the superstar pizza delivery guy managed to navigate Atlanta repeatedly unscathed in TWD.
FYI, I also like Junkie Depp Jr. and think his proto-Zed mannerisms will work greatly to his advantage after someone splashes that beige Member's Only jacket with undead gore. He's already in character for the part, so to speak. He just needs a little help from Wardrobe before he nails it.
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 9:15 AM on September 17, 2015 [4 favorites]
from the Wiki entry:
The displacement death camps ran rampant with disease, and "regular security and military units as responsible for widespread torture, mutilation and killings of noncombatant civilians from all sectors of Salvadoran society." The report also stated that the killing of civilians by state security forces became increasingly systematic with the implementation of more methodical killing strategies, which allegedly included use of a meat packing plant to dispose of human remains.[65] Between August 20 and August 25, 1981, eighty-three decapitations were reported. The murders were later revealed to have been carried out by a death squad using a guillotine.I mean... the Salazars lived through that, apparently, and it's going to take a hell of a lot to break them. Even the dead coming back to life would just be a horror lagniappe in these poor people's lives.
Also, Salvadorans were massacred in churches during worship. Daniel said that good people die first -- meaning, good people that help each other can mobilize groups and protect others, so of course they're doing to die first. People who put themselves in harm's way to protect children, possessions, etc. are going to get bit, killed by looters or shot by the military, most likely.
The Survivor motto of "outwit, outplay, outlast" would probably be your best strategy for successfully navigating the Zompocalypse.
This may be the one time in the TWD storyline where huddling in a bunker would help you ride out the worst of it, but if you pick a heavily populated area to hide in during the initial outbreak, you're basically fucked. Only Glenn the superstar pizza delivery guy managed to navigate Atlanta repeatedly unscathed in TWD.
FYI, I also like Junkie Depp Jr. and think his proto-Zed mannerisms will work greatly to his advantage after someone splashes that beige Member's Only jacket with undead gore. He's already in character for the part, so to speak. He just needs a little help from Wardrobe before he nails it.
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 9:15 AM on September 17, 2015 [4 favorites]
Speaking of zombies, they never ever use that word in this show or the Walking Dead. You'd think someone would have by now said "Man, these things sure do look like zombies!"
This is such a common conceit in zombie fiction that it has its own entry on TV Tropes. It's often justified by saying that popular zombie fiction never existed in the fictional universe, so no one would recognize zombies as anything familiar—they would just be like "oh my god why are there dead people walking around, this is a totally new concept to me". I believe that Kirkman has stated that this is the case in TWD.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 6:58 PM on September 17, 2015
This is such a common conceit in zombie fiction that it has its own entry on TV Tropes. It's often justified by saying that popular zombie fiction never existed in the fictional universe, so no one would recognize zombies as anything familiar—they would just be like "oh my god why are there dead people walking around, this is a totally new concept to me". I believe that Kirkman has stated that this is the case in TWD.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 6:58 PM on September 17, 2015
But, yeah, best episode so far. It still hasn't really grabbed me, but I'll keep watching.
It's getting better—the arrival of the army has the potential to make things interesting—but overall the storytelling has been frustratingly vague so far. The fall of LA that's happening around them still feels like an effect without a clear cause—we've seen a handful of zombies, but not anywhere near enough to cause the chaos that we've seen. And the characters don't even ask the question: they just blithely accept that, okay, people are getting sick, and therefore the city is full of riots and fires and power failures and martial law. Like of course that's what would happen in an epidemic. It feels very much like LA has been brought to its knees by six zombies, and no one is commenting on that.
For that matter, the characters' interactions are vague too—they're still conspicuously avoiding talking about any of the things they should be talking about. "Hey, we just barely escaped with our lives from a building fire in the middle of an insane riot". "Hey, I caved in the school principal's face with a fire extinguisher today; it was pretty fucked up". "Hey, we saw Johnny Depp's drug dealer come back from the grave, and then Johnny ran him over repeatedly". "Hey, we saw one riot cop eat the face of another riot cop". None of that. I mean, they keep saying things like "what is going on here?", but they're not actually doing anything to figure it out—they're not telling each other what they've seen, or debating possible explanations, or turning on the radio, or anything. Just moving from plot coupon to plot coupon.
And you're 36 hours or whatever into the apocalypse, and you're calmly standing there about to brain your neighbor with a ball peen hammer?
Also, did Monopoly smell like product placement to anyone else?
posted by escape from the potato planet at 7:39 PM on September 17, 2015 [7 favorites]
It's getting better—the arrival of the army has the potential to make things interesting—but overall the storytelling has been frustratingly vague so far. The fall of LA that's happening around them still feels like an effect without a clear cause—we've seen a handful of zombies, but not anywhere near enough to cause the chaos that we've seen. And the characters don't even ask the question: they just blithely accept that, okay, people are getting sick, and therefore the city is full of riots and fires and power failures and martial law. Like of course that's what would happen in an epidemic. It feels very much like LA has been brought to its knees by six zombies, and no one is commenting on that.
For that matter, the characters' interactions are vague too—they're still conspicuously avoiding talking about any of the things they should be talking about. "Hey, we just barely escaped with our lives from a building fire in the middle of an insane riot". "Hey, I caved in the school principal's face with a fire extinguisher today; it was pretty fucked up". "Hey, we saw Johnny Depp's drug dealer come back from the grave, and then Johnny ran him over repeatedly". "Hey, we saw one riot cop eat the face of another riot cop". None of that. I mean, they keep saying things like "what is going on here?", but they're not actually doing anything to figure it out—they're not telling each other what they've seen, or debating possible explanations, or turning on the radio, or anything. Just moving from plot coupon to plot coupon.
And you're 36 hours or whatever into the apocalypse, and you're calmly standing there about to brain your neighbor with a ball peen hammer?
Also, did Monopoly smell like product placement to anyone else?
posted by escape from the potato planet at 7:39 PM on September 17, 2015 [7 favorites]
Wow, I knew vaguely that there had been very bad shit in the El Salvadoran civil war, but I didn't realize how eerily specific it was to a zombie apocalypse situation. I'm impressed, but it's a really great piece of deep worldbuilding that's probably going to have to remain under the surface and invisible to most viewers.
posted by Naberius at 9:19 AM on September 18, 2015
posted by Naberius at 9:19 AM on September 18, 2015
I know we keep saying Johnny Depp, but I think we Leo gotta honor his coparent Skeet Ulrich.
posted by Iteki at 4:04 PM on September 18, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Iteki at 4:04 PM on September 18, 2015 [2 favorites]
I just hope the writers involved here do not have their characters do really stupid things. Well, maybe they're having the people do really stupid things and then there will be a wise veteran of the El Salvadoran war commenting on the stupidity.
I don't think we're talking about six zombies, are we? I mean, the assumption, I think, with the hospital on fire, was that people were dying, as they do in hospitals, and then zombified that way.
That's a zombie outbreak that makes sense. But I don't know how zombies wandered into the power plant. I mean, it's a cool effect, having the lights go out, but I don't see how it makes sense.
posted by angrycat at 4:17 PM on September 18, 2015
I don't think we're talking about six zombies, are we? I mean, the assumption, I think, with the hospital on fire, was that people were dying, as they do in hospitals, and then zombified that way.
That's a zombie outbreak that makes sense. But I don't know how zombies wandered into the power plant. I mean, it's a cool effect, having the lights go out, but I don't see how it makes sense.
posted by angrycat at 4:17 PM on September 18, 2015
That mother has the least painful crushed foot!
Also I just can't imagine how the fuck this collection of crap plot points got past a reasonably competent writer's room. I mean, that's so many little small things that this show has not shown, has not earned. That none of them are freaking out at the brains dangling off the curtains is just a small example of it. It's like we are watching a parody of a serious zombie show or something.
posted by Catblack at 4:30 PM on September 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
Also I just can't imagine how the fuck this collection of crap plot points got past a reasonably competent writer's room. I mean, that's so many little small things that this show has not shown, has not earned. That none of them are freaking out at the brains dangling off the curtains is just a small example of it. It's like we are watching a parody of a serious zombie show or something.
posted by Catblack at 4:30 PM on September 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
Also I just can't imagine how the fuck this collection of crap plot points got past a reasonably competent writer's room. I mean, that's so many little small things that this show has not shown, has not earned. That none of them are freaking out at the brains dangling off the curtains is just a small example of it.
They're just coasting off of the lack of actual Walking Dead content. It's such a ratings monster, that they probably knew they didn't really need to try hard. I was bothered by the lack of traumatized characters after they blew the guy's head off twice. I started to comment on it, but there are just so many problems with this show that it doesn't even feel fair to critique it for character's poorly written reactions because there have been so many things wrong. I mean we live in a connected world. None of the characters seem to be connected to anyone outside, or want to get to twitter or facebook or even text people elsewhere. From the start they just kind of wanted to get away from the heart of the action, but not bug out of the whole state.
The worst part of the show for me is that there is nobody to care about. I don't care about the main character. I don't care about the dad. None of them are really characters you latch onto. Even grandma with the busted ankle. They should have had one really relateable person at least. And I kind of feel cheated. The point was to be there at the beginning, but presumably we would get some kind of perspective of those trying to fight it, and figure out what was going on. These people know absolutely nothing. And it's not like they're even figuring anything out in any kind of systematic way. They're going to need to make another series as a prequel to this one at this rate.
posted by cashman at 6:17 PM on September 18, 2015 [2 favorites]
They're just coasting off of the lack of actual Walking Dead content. It's such a ratings monster, that they probably knew they didn't really need to try hard. I was bothered by the lack of traumatized characters after they blew the guy's head off twice. I started to comment on it, but there are just so many problems with this show that it doesn't even feel fair to critique it for character's poorly written reactions because there have been so many things wrong. I mean we live in a connected world. None of the characters seem to be connected to anyone outside, or want to get to twitter or facebook or even text people elsewhere. From the start they just kind of wanted to get away from the heart of the action, but not bug out of the whole state.
The worst part of the show for me is that there is nobody to care about. I don't care about the main character. I don't care about the dad. None of them are really characters you latch onto. Even grandma with the busted ankle. They should have had one really relateable person at least. And I kind of feel cheated. The point was to be there at the beginning, but presumably we would get some kind of perspective of those trying to fight it, and figure out what was going on. These people know absolutely nothing. And it's not like they're even figuring anything out in any kind of systematic way. They're going to need to make another series as a prequel to this one at this rate.
posted by cashman at 6:17 PM on September 18, 2015 [2 favorites]
You've got Ruben Blades, who is a great actor... there's more drama in a John Carpenter movie than there was in that barber shop!
posted by Catblack at 7:16 PM on September 18, 2015
posted by Catblack at 7:16 PM on September 18, 2015
Want some sad humor courtesy of this show? You know that saying "I don't have to outrun a zombie. I just have to outrun you" right? A couple of days ago I'm out for a jog with a friend and the sun is setting. We get tired and stop running to walk for a bit and hydrate. Now, sometimes I play little games when we run. So one time I picked some person ahead of us and pretended he was the protagonist from Attack The Block, and we were the villains, chasing for a while and trying to catch up to him.
Since the sun is going down on our run I start thinking about zombies and I say "It's getting dark, and soon the Walkers will be behind us, so we had better start running again." Keep in mind - I am the faster runner, and at this point I'm not even that tired. Without missing a beat, my friend replies "I don't have to outrun them. You're a black guy, so obviously they will get you first".
posted by cashman at 7:51 PM on September 18, 2015 [7 favorites]
Since the sun is going down on our run I start thinking about zombies and I say "It's getting dark, and soon the Walkers will be behind us, so we had better start running again." Keep in mind - I am the faster runner, and at this point I'm not even that tired. Without missing a beat, my friend replies "I don't have to outrun them. You're a black guy, so obviously they will get you first".
posted by cashman at 7:51 PM on September 18, 2015 [7 favorites]
You should have snapped back "depends on how many white women are in the group."
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 10:26 AM on September 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 10:26 AM on September 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
Watching the re-run of last week; is Su-Su supposed to have killed herself? The daughter notices a tea cup and an empty bottle of pills just before noticing the zombie legs under the swinging door...why would she kill herself? Or is it just that she was sick?
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:26 PM on September 20, 2015
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:26 PM on September 20, 2015
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Recaps
FoxSisters
The fall of LA still feels rushed, ridiculously chaotic and maddeningly unclear. If feels less like an actual chaotic situation and more like the writers are just throwing up a narrative smoke screen to avoid explaining things. Hopefully the arrival of the military will shed some light on things, but it's doubtful.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:16 PM on September 13, 2015