Game of Thrones: The Winds of Winter   Show Only 
June 26, 2016 7:13 PM - Season 6, Episode 10 - Subscribe

Cersei faces her trial.

Written by David Benioff & D. B. Weiss
Directed by Miguel Sapochnik
Full cast and crew credits

Episode trailer
posted by Brandon Blatcher (311 comments total) 8 users marked this as a favorite
 
IT. IS. ON.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:13 PM on June 26, 2016


Everything happens so much
posted by The Whelk at 7:14 PM on June 26, 2016 [4 favorites]


ee'rybody in the club gettin' burnt. can't process. too much wildfire.
posted by dis_integration at 7:15 PM on June 26, 2016 [1 favorite]


Lancel just didn't hit the X button rapidly enough.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 7:16 PM on June 26, 2016 [22 favorites]


I shouted "don't you dare do the right thing at the last minute!"
posted by The Whelk at 7:17 PM on June 26, 2016 [1 favorite]


Well that cuts the payroll for the show down a bit.
posted by octothorpe at 7:17 PM on June 26, 2016 [18 favorites]


The candles.
"Hand of the Queen."
"...the library."
"Your heart's desire."
"...a Stark, smiling down on you...."
"...with you by my side."
"King in the North!"
"First of her name."

This was awesome.
posted by zarq at 7:18 PM on June 26, 2016 [4 favorites]


Always bad news when your boyfriend doesn't approve of your new promotion.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:19 PM on June 26, 2016 [16 favorites]


That was DEEPLY satisfying!

Except that I now totally want little Lady Lyana Mormont to take the Iron Throne.

Dorne was... sigh. I'm confused about how long it takes to teleport sail from Mereen to Dorne and back, though. I was quite surprised to see the Spider on board with the gang.
posted by TwoStride at 7:19 PM on June 26, 2016 [2 favorites]


Cersei in straight up Romulian outfits.
posted by The Whelk at 7:20 PM on June 26, 2016 [44 favorites]


Oh, and while Cersei gets all the points for the whole kaboom and then her "shame!" revenge, her outfit was a little too on-the-nose.
posted by TwoStride at 7:20 PM on June 26, 2016


PRECOCIOUS MORMONT GIRL 2016
posted by uosuaq at 7:24 PM on June 26, 2016 [33 favorites]


I liked her dress, she was preparing to be in morning for Margary, et al.
posted by skewed at 7:25 PM on June 26, 2016


You know shit is about to go down on this show when the women go full adult goth
posted by The Whelk at 7:25 PM on June 26, 2016 [22 favorites]


Oh, and while Cersei gets all the points for the whole kaboom and then her "shame!" revenge, her outfit was a little too on-the-nose.

Dress was awesome. But without wildfire, she's toast. Dragon toast.
posted by dis_integration at 7:26 PM on June 26, 2016 [1 favorite]


I'm a little worried that Arya won't know how to stop when she's run out of vengeance targets.
posted by octothorpe at 7:26 PM on June 26, 2016 [9 favorites]


So John Snow is actually the son of *whisper whisper whisper*? I KNEW it!
posted by uosuaq at 7:27 PM on June 26, 2016 [13 favorites]



So John Stark is actually the son of *whisper whisper whisper*? I KNEW it!


I actually liked that for once the show trusted the audience to put 2 + 2 together on his lineage!
posted by TwoStride at 7:28 PM on June 26, 2016 [5 favorites]


Though I am bummed that my pet theory that he was actually Robert's son has now been blown out of the water though I guess he could be, but it's way less likely.
posted by TwoStride at 7:29 PM on June 26, 2016 [1 favorite]



I actually liked that for once the show trusted the audience to put 2 + 2 together on his lineage!


I think they'll spell it out next season.
posted by drezdn at 7:32 PM on June 26, 2016


True, but I can enjoy it for now.
posted by TwoStride at 7:33 PM on June 26, 2016 [3 favorites]


Oh, and my final complaint: they may have dubbed Jon the White Wolf, but WHERE THE FUCK WAS GHOST?!
posted by TwoStride at 7:43 PM on June 26, 2016 [18 favorites]


I actually liked that for once the show trusted the audience to put 2 + 2 together on his lineage!

That trust may be unfounded. My husband hasn't read the books but has watched every episode of the show and he had no idea what that scene meant. Then, when I tried to explain it to him, he interrupted me to ask "Who's Bran?"

My husband is the worst person in the world to watch serial TV with.
posted by Jacqueline at 7:43 PM on June 26, 2016 [21 favorites]


#lyannamormontfuckyeah
posted by Halloween Jack at 7:44 PM on June 26, 2016 [14 favorites]


Well, Jon Snow had a better end of the season than last year.
posted by dfan at 7:47 PM on June 26, 2016 [7 favorites]


Oh hell yes.

Arya Stark totally pulling a "HERCULES MULLIGAN" surprise entrance, there. (Did she take faces with her? Can she still do that thing? How is this a thing?) But that is a very Titus Andronicus revenge ending, there.

Has Cersei used up *all* the wildfire, now? Now that the "your kids will all die" part of her prophesy is done, I looked up the rest of it. Her [Valyerian word for little brother] will choke her. Tyrion? Or Jamie? I wouldn't have thought Jamie could be the one, but he looks unhappy.

This is shaping up to be the battle of the five queens. I am good with this, but Lady Mormont should eventually take the iron throne through sheer tiny badassery.
posted by rmd1023 at 7:48 PM on June 26, 2016 [6 favorites]


Anyhow I would love to hear what other strictly show-only / no-exposure-to-book-theories people think was going on there to help me judge just how dumb my husband is, thanks. :)
posted by Jacqueline at 7:49 PM on June 26, 2016 [1 favorite]


Jaime is totes going to kill Cersei. The poetic symmetry is too on point for it not to be the case.
posted by Justinian at 7:50 PM on June 26, 2016 [10 favorites]


Anyhow I would love to hear what other strictly show-only / no-exposure-to-book-theories people think was going on there to help me judge just how dumb my husband is, thanks. :)
It was pretty hard to read even the show-only threads without being exposed to R+L=J all the time. I think the cryptic name made people think that they could sling it around without it being deciphered.
posted by dfan at 7:53 PM on June 26, 2016 [1 favorite]


Jacqueline, if he couldn't remember who Bran was I'm guessing he also couldn't remember who Lyanna was (or maybe even who Young Ned was).

Vanity Fair is calling this YouTube compilation "all the times the show tried to hint who Jon Snow's parents were," but I think it's more accurately just "all the times someone mentioned the Targaryens and/or Stark family honor" but it might be a good refresher for your husband.
posted by TwoStride at 7:53 PM on June 26, 2016 [2 favorites]


At least you weren't spoiled on B + R = C
posted by Justinian at 7:54 PM on June 26, 2016


I don't care about anything in this show anymore except for Lyanna Mormont.
posted by komara at 7:54 PM on June 26, 2016 [32 favorites]


Jacqueline, if he couldn't remember who Bran was I'm guessing he also couldn't remember who Lyanna was (or maybe even who Young Ned was).

Ding ding ding ding ding! I don't think he even understood that those scenes were visions of the past.

It's so frustrating because whenever I try to explain things to him he immediately shouts "no spoilers!" if I mention a detail FROM THE SHOW (not the books) that he's forgotten, and he seems to have forgotten at least 75% of everything that has ever happened.

At what point does this become legitimate grounds for divorce? :(
posted by Jacqueline at 8:00 PM on June 26, 2016 [11 favorites]


I explain some of the backstory to my wife as we watch, but she has the good grace to just nod at the parts she doesn't care about.
posted by skewed at 8:03 PM on June 26, 2016 [2 favorites]


The sept! The sept! The sept is on fire!

There's a lot to this episode, and we have 10 months to savour this thread. Which is good because I have many thoughts.

First off: When Littlefinger was making Sansa do emotional labour to help him deal with his intrusive thoughts, was I the only one who thought, for a least a second when he said he wanted the Iron Throne that maybe he wasn't a total creep?

Because I had a generous thought towards him and then he went and betrayed it. Like he does to everyone.
posted by sparklemotion at 8:08 PM on June 26, 2016 [2 favorites]


One thing to remember is that Baelish knows that Jon isn't a Stark. So him being King of the North because he's a Stark *could* be problematic at some point, one that that Baelish will be sure to be there for.

The biggest disappointment was Magaery dying, since she was smart enough to figure out something was wrong and try to leave. But if puts Oleana in a "kill them all" mood, that doesn't hurt my feelings at all. Plus here alliance with Dorne may put those ladies to get use.

Dany's fleet of ships, alliance with Dorne, Dragons and three armies sound impressive, but all I could think is "You have't met Lady Mormont yet, so don't bet on winning anything just yet."

Props to Cersei for not blowing up the whole city, only the part where all her enemies were. That and torturing Lancel and the Septa. She'll be totally bad news for, well, everyone in Kings Landing, but it'll be somewhat fun to watch her flail about. But Jaime's gonna put a sword in her too, isn't he?


Finally, for 69 minutes it felt like like it dragged at times. They could have fit more stuff in, like Brienne and the Hound. Though I'm very grateful to Arya's return and her various activities. Wish we could have seen her return to Winterfell and a reunion, that would have been more fitting that Dany's fleet.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:11 PM on June 26, 2016 [1 favorite]


For a moment in the garden, I wondered if Sansa was going to just shank Littlefinger.

Wouldn't blame her.
posted by rmd1023 at 8:15 PM on June 26, 2016 [4 favorites]


I think it'd be in Littlefinger's interest to keep the truth about Jon quiet--as the son of the beloved Lyanna Stark I imagine he might gain even more symapthy and support.
posted by TwoStride at 8:17 PM on June 26, 2016 [2 favorites]


Thanks saving us Benjen, but how about you leave us a horse, seeing as a I can't walk.

Also, don't send Bran south, 'cause him crossing the Wall would mean the Night King can cross the Wall, right?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:18 PM on June 26, 2016 [9 favorites]


One thing to remember is that Baelish knows that Jon isn't a Stark.

I am confused by this sentence. Are you saying that Littlefinger currently knows more about Jon's heritage than the world at large or...?
posted by Jacqueline at 8:20 PM on June 26, 2016 [2 favorites]


But if puts Oleana in a "kill them all" mood, that doesn't hurt my feelings at all. Plus here alliance with Dorne may put those ladies to get use.

You know what was a good use? Olenna Tyrell shutting the Sand Snakes down. They have needed to be put in their place for two seasons. I hope she keeps them there.

I also hope that some day some book reader puts together a timeline of all of these different arcs. Because while I totally get that it was probably months between Varys leaving Tyrion at the harbor and the meeting with Olenna (which happened after Sept-be-Gone Day) and then months again before Dany sailed west, it just seemed really really fast.

I am confused by this sentence. Are you saying that Littlefinger currently knows more about Jon's heritage than the world at large or...?

Petyr hinted it pretty hard to Sansa in the crypt at Winterfell before she married Ramsay. It's probably the strongest hint that the show ever gave to R+L=J.
posted by sparklemotion at 8:22 PM on June 26, 2016 [2 favorites]


Yes, Littlefinger knows more than the world at large about Jon. He's been teasing Sansa about it since season 1.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:23 PM on June 26, 2016 [1 favorite]


I also hope that some day some book reader puts together a timeline of all of these different arcs.

Oh we're just as confused as the rest of you. It seems that once we overtook the book plot that several characters were suddenly gifted with teleporters.
posted by Jacqueline at 8:24 PM on June 26, 2016 [6 favorites]


Yes, Littlefinger knows more than the world at large about Jon

I would be very surprised were that the case. The only two people who know Jon's heritage are now Bran (assuming he's not a dummo like Jon) and Howland Reed, Meera's father.
posted by Justinian at 8:24 PM on June 26, 2016 [4 favorites]


Littlefinger seems to know/believe that Lyanna was not raped/kidnapped by Rhaegar, but I don't think it's been implied that he thinks Jon is their secret baby.
posted by gatorae at 8:25 PM on June 26, 2016 [2 favorites]


Yes, Littlefinger knows more than the world at large about Jon. He's been teasing Sansa about it since season 1.

Please elaborate because I either missed something important or interpreted it very differently.
posted by Jacqueline at 8:27 PM on June 26, 2016 [1 favorite]


Also, don't send Bran south, 'cause him crossing the Wall would mean the Night King can cross the Wall, right?

Yeah I'm pretty confused about this. Maybe Zombie-benjen is actually working for the Night King? Line of thought being: it seemed like when Mr. Ice Crown touched Bran, he got instant knowledge to Bran's whereabouts. Why would that wear off? If you've got a homing beacon on your greatest enemy, it doesn't matter how many Zombie-uncles he has leading the way. So the bad guys realized that with the mark on Bran, they could get past the wall if he went south. So they sent him a nice friendly face to lead him there, sacrificing a few zombies for a staged rescue that would ensure he would trust the zombie-uncle. Bran goes south, crosses the wall, the White Walkers march on Westeros.
posted by dis_integration at 8:28 PM on June 26, 2016 [6 favorites]




And yeah, I think Benjen might be working for the Night King.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:30 PM on June 26, 2016


Sansa and Baelish in the crypt

I still don't see support for your theory that Littlefinger suspects anything about Jon's parentage? Everything he mentions in that scene is common knowledge.
posted by Jacqueline at 8:36 PM on June 26, 2016 [2 favorites]


Call it a hunch then, because he clearly doesn't believe the Lyanna-was-kidnapped common belief. If they ran away together, in love, it's not hard to figure out that she might have had a kid an OH LOOK, the famously honorable Ned Stark comes home with a bastard after being one of the last people to see her alive. Though I wanna know how Jon the Targaryan got black hair.

But Baelish has bigger issues at the moment, since he's declared for the Starks, and gone against Cersei, who he thought was imprisoned and off to trial. But now that she's Queen, she might come looking for him, because that's how Cersei rolls.

Also, how do dragons do in the colder climate of the North, does it matter to their effectiveness?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:44 PM on June 26, 2016 [1 favorite]


Also, how do dragons do in the colder climate of the North, does it matter to their effectiveness?

I bet they'll be eager to burn things for warmth!
posted by TwoStride at 8:46 PM on June 26, 2016 [3 favorites]


I still don't see support for your theory that Littlefinger suspects anything about Jon's parentage? Everything he mentions in that scene is common knowledge.

It's not what he mentions -- you need to watch his face (especially when Sansa is not looking at him). He definitely doesn't believe the "kidnapped and raped" part of the deal.

Plus, we know that Littlefinger prides himself on the quality of his spies. And we saw tonight that Lyanna had at least one handmaiden/attendant when she died. And she was the consort of the Prince, she was probagbly surrounded by people throughout her pregnancy. It's not like Ned is literally the only person in the world who knows.

He's been teasing Sansa about it since season 1.
I thought that maybe you were referring to him creeping on Sansa at the Tournament of the Hand, but at least from this compilation, it looks like all he did was tell her scary stories about The Mountain and the Hound. dammit petyr why you gotta creep so hard?

Oh... and for extra added foreshadowing bonus... check out Arya's eyes right around 22:08. A girl sees something she likes.
posted by sparklemotion at 8:50 PM on June 26, 2016 [2 favorites]


I do agree that adult Littlefinger is probably one of the only people on the show smart and attentive enough to be capable of suspecting something. But teenage Littlefinger was still licking his wounds over Cat when it all went down.

If something happens that makes him stop and reevaluate everything he "knew" about what happened 20 years ago I could see him putting it together before anyone else but I don't think there's been anything to trigger that yet.
posted by Jacqueline at 8:50 PM on June 26, 2016 [1 favorite]


The lady in red is going to meet the Queen of burning things now, isn't she?
Who also has conveniently turned her back on the seven and may be looking for another mythos.

And yeah, I feel like Bran is about to bring The Wall tumbling down. Season 7 being the frantic fight against the Night King and season 8 being the campaign to unseat Cersei maybe?
posted by Slackermagee at 8:52 PM on June 26, 2016 [2 favorites]


I don't know how seriously to take the teleporter comments, but: you guys realize there were a bunch of time jumps, right?

I mean, granted, the show does a shit job marking them at times. Also, sometimes the editors decide to show non-intersecting timelines out of order (e.g. we see Olenna Tyrell in Dorne already aware of the events at the sept, clearly weeks later, and then later see Jaime arriving in King's Landing much sooner after those events). But, either way, it is super obvious a lot of time is passing off-screen.
posted by tocts at 8:59 PM on June 26, 2016 [2 favorites]


You say super obvious, I say sloppy writing.
posted by TwoStride at 9:03 PM on June 26, 2016 [13 favorites]


The teleporter comments are low level nerd rage. Which i get, hell i just wanna know how long it takes to travel over the Narrow Sea. I suspect it's several days, but there's nothing definitive. If the show would answer that it would be such a relief.

Until that definitive figure pointed out all the other screwed up time.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:06 PM on June 26, 2016 [2 favorites]


But, either way, it is super obvious a lot of time is passing off-screen.

Sometimes, time passes off screen. Other times, Littlefinger uses the fast-travel option on his map of SkyrimWesteros.
posted by dis_integration at 9:07 PM on June 26, 2016 [5 favorites]


I don't know how seriously to take the teleporter comments

I'm pretty sure they are universally tongue in cheek, but as you say yourself, the show isn't great about marking them.

The weird climate of the world doesn't help either. When the show started it was what, late summer? And now it's early winter. That would be 6 months tops in our world, but we know it's been years. But we don't get any other markers about the passing of time.

The most egregious thing this episode was Varys being in Dany's fleet. It was unnecessary, except for the "epicness" of the seeing her at the helm with Team Dany surrounding her, but it would have been just as well for him to meet up with them after they land in Dorne next season.

I also would like to figure out how Arya's time in Braavos matches up with events in Westeros. Had she been back in Westeros for a week when she killed Walder Frey? A year? How much time passed between Jaime leaving the Twins and Ayra going in for the kill? Was Arya that serving girl when Jaime was there? Or did she take her face afterwards?
posted by sparklemotion at 9:08 PM on June 26, 2016 [6 favorites]


I usually prefer implied time jumps (Lady Olenna being in full mourning garb and the like) to characters having to awkwardly mention how many weeks it's been since X unless they can't avoid it.
posted by The Whelk at 9:11 PM on June 26, 2016 [7 favorites]


How does Varys get around so fast?
posted by cazoo at 9:14 PM on June 26, 2016 [5 favorites]


Also, Qyburn turning the birds into murderbots was compellingly creepy. I weep not for Lancel because he was stupid to follow the kid in there.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:17 PM on June 26, 2016 [3 favorites]


I weep not for Lancel because he was stupid to follow the kid in there.

Oh yeah, I totally forgot to complain about this because Cersei BLEW UP THE SEPT and it slipped my mind. Why the hell would Lancel follow that kid? He was supposed to go to the Red Keep. Let the little spy go do his spying. Who cares? The whole time I felt like I was yelling at the screen when the teenagers go upstairs in the abandoned house in the woods to have sex in a horror movie.
posted by dis_integration at 9:20 PM on June 26, 2016 [4 favorites]


We need a Lady Mormont in every congress and parliment -- a stern 10 year old girl shamefully reminding our politicians of how two faced they are. It'd work wonders.
posted by Catblack at 9:23 PM on June 26, 2016 [33 favorites]


"Who's Bran?"

Isn't that the guy whose real father is John Oliver?
posted by juiceCake at 9:24 PM on June 26, 2016 [3 favorites]


Arya pulled a Cartman!
posted by Catblack at 9:27 PM on June 26, 2016 [4 favorites]


In case anyone else missed this subtle change in this episode's credits.
posted by TwoStride at 9:30 PM on June 26, 2016 [8 favorites]


In case anyone else missed this subtle change in this episode's credits.

That makes me so happy. Thanks for linking that for those of us who were busy raiding our HBO-subscribing sister-in-law's cookie stash during the opening credits.
posted by Jacqueline at 9:34 PM on June 26, 2016 [5 favorites]


The weird climate of the world doesn't help either. When the show started it was what, late summer? And now it's early winter. That would be 6 months tops in our world, but we know it's been years. But we don't get any other markers about the passing of time.

Seasons take years in this universe as established in season 1.
posted by ridogi at 9:38 PM on June 26, 2016 [6 favorites]


The Arya scene was so so good and I didn't see it mentioned upthread how that was a reference to a scene that happened way back when after the Red Wedding. There's a scene at the Twins post-red wedding and it cuts to Bran & co travelling north, bunking down for the night. Bran relays a story Old Nan had told about a host who had killed a guest and fed him to his father or something, in a pie, and the gods turned him into a giant rat as punishment for betraying the duties of hosting guests. I am guessing Arya also remembered this story??!@

Good episode great show can't wait for next season
posted by girih knot at 9:39 PM on June 26, 2016 [9 favorites]


I would really love an illustrated children's storybook of all of Old Nan's stories. GOT marketing tie-in people, pls get on that.
posted by Jacqueline at 9:43 PM on June 26, 2016 [6 favorites]


Since no one else has...
*pours out 40*
He died as he lived, a pawn of the more worldly and evil. [Exit King Tommen, stage down.]
posted by cardboard at 9:48 PM on June 26, 2016 [8 favorites]


Tommen died... Just like the old gypsy woman witch said!
posted by FallowKing at 9:50 PM on June 26, 2016 [2 favorites]


Seasons take years in this universe as established in season 1.

And the Summer which just passed lasted a (nearly?) unprecedented few decades. What, 25 years? Because Jon is in his early 20s and was born in Summer.

So the Stark children have never seen Winter. That's referenced in one of Sansa's lines to Jon near the end of the episode. The onset of their first Winter is obviously of great significance to a Stark scion.
posted by Justinian at 9:52 PM on June 26, 2016 [6 favorites]




The device in the library is a sort of orrery and the opening credits is some kind of weird inverse-orrery where the map is on the inside of a sphere surrounding the sun in the center. There are definitely similarities, though, which I did note during the episode.
posted by Justinian at 10:06 PM on June 26, 2016 [2 favorites]


Lady Mormont was amazing.

The music stood out for me in a way that it hasn't before. The finality and inevitability it underscored in certain scenes was palpable and heightened the silences in others, such as the stretch where Tommen took off his crown, walked out of frame, and then stepped out the window.
posted by vespertine at 10:13 PM on June 26, 2016 [14 favorites]


Tyrion: in love with Daenerys? [Y / N]
posted by komara at 10:20 PM on June 26, 2016 [1 favorite]


I think Tyrion has given up on love. :(
posted by Jacqueline at 10:24 PM on June 26, 2016 [3 favorites]


[A couple of comments deleted. Reminder: this is a show-only thread, so let's stick to discussing this episode, avoid books stuff, and be careful about derails re other fandom goings-on. Thanks.]
posted by taz at 10:48 PM on June 26, 2016


Having Lady Mormont declare Jon king was a particularly interesting tactic because you can't shut down an enthusiastic 10-year-old and not look like a dick; they used it to good effect in keeping both Sansa and Jon silent as everything went off the rails.

Re which brother kills Cersei: I have maintained from the beginning it has to be Jaime as part of his redemption arc.

Expected Tommen not to survive the episode but was surprised by the manner of death. KINDA PISSED they killed Margaery because I adore Natalie Dormer. Knew she'd die eventually and I guess it sets up the Dorne/Highgarden alliance but I felt like they threw away a lot of setup. Perhaps next season we'll discover some stuff Margaery set in motion against Cersei that comes to fruition even after she's dead; I refuse to believe we saw the sum total of her plans.

Where did Brienne and Pod go??? Did their rowboat join Gendry's rowboat in rowboat Purgatory???

The vibe between Jon and Sansa was creeping me out a bit and I can't tell if they're deliberately setting up a creepy (cousin) thing there or if they're just attractive young actors with too much chemistry. Was relatively pleased with how they handled the reveal/discussion ... it wasn't excessively obvious but felt genuine. Jon Snow is too chill for his own good and them reconciling calmly rather than random rage felt more natural.

Tyrion and Dany did make my cynical heart swell. I also do find it curious (not surprising per se but curious) that the three Lannister children survive, perhaps one goes to each faction? Jaime could head north after Brienne and end up with the Starks ... Tyrion is in the South with Dany and Highgarden and Dorne and the Iron Fleet. Cersei is on the iron throne. And those are our three power centers right now. Although they seem very unbalanced.

Rather suspect Euron will turn up to offer his cock and fleet to Cersei, having lost out on Dany.

I continue to have MANY ISSUES with Dany's fleet's realism but consider my tongue bit except that NOBODY WASTES THAT MUCH DYE ON SAILS AND DEFINITELY NOT RED AND BLACK THOSE ARE FUCKING EXPENSIVE AND FADE IN LIKE SECONDS IN THE SUN.

My husband's verdict was that none of it was SURPRISING but all of it was interesting, especially in setting things in motion for next season.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 10:50 PM on June 26, 2016 [14 favorites]


Of course there are implied time jumps - they've just gotten so loose about exactly how much time has been jumped in each plot line that it doesn't feel like it holds together.
posted by atoxyl at 11:23 PM on June 26, 2016 [3 favorites]


But you know, better to cut through the plot thicket than get caught up in it like GRRM did.
posted by atoxyl at 11:28 PM on June 26, 2016 [2 favorites]


NOBODY WASTES THAT MUCH DYE ON SAILS AND DEFINITELY NOT RED AND BLACK THOSE ARE FUCKING EXPENSIVE AND FADE IN LIKE SECONDS IN THE SUN

Xena to the rescue.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:30 PM on June 26, 2016 [4 favorites]


I think valyrian dyes last for a long time.
posted by skewed at 11:32 PM on June 26, 2016 [7 favorites]


RIP mags. Never be the smartest person in the room, as they say.
posted by KathrynT at 11:33 PM on June 26, 2016 [5 favorites]


Also I am about 99% certain that Lyanna whispered "His name is Aegon" to Ned.
posted by KathrynT at 11:52 PM on June 26, 2016 [3 favorites]


There already was an Aegon. It would be really weird to give him the same name as his half brother.
posted by Jacqueline at 11:55 PM on June 26, 2016


I wouldn't have thought Jamie could be the one, but he looks unhappy.

Considering Cersei just did what he killed the Mad King to prevent, yeah, Jamie's not a happy camper.
posted by jamaro at 12:08 AM on June 27, 2016 [7 favorites]


If Margaery's plans achieved nothing else, getting the Queen of Thorns out of the city means a final fuck you to Cersei.
posted by corb at 12:43 AM on June 27, 2016 [11 favorites]


So, no comments on Sansa's smile drop towards Jon Snow after all the knee-bending? Seemed like a symmetry to ole Jamie watching Cersei's ascension.
posted by lkc at 1:52 AM on June 27, 2016 [1 favorite]


Also, Tommen died the way the whole story began: A child falling out a window.
Because of drama involving Cersei.
posted by lkc at 2:05 AM on June 27, 2016 [26 favorites]


I am a sucker for an armada so this is probably my favourite episode yet. Dynamite.
posted by turbid dahlia at 2:37 AM on June 27, 2016 [1 favorite]


Oh and that library! My eyes, like Samwell's, swelled with tears.
posted by turbid dahlia at 2:41 AM on June 27, 2016 [10 favorites]


Of course there are implied time jumps - they've just gotten so loose about exactly how much time has been jumped in each plot line that it doesn't feel like it holds together.

Eh, I'm just happy that they're happening. The scale of the story (and the build-up of the long winter to come) doesn't work unless a fair bit of time actually passes, and previously the writers (and GRRM) have seemed hesitant to really push the timeline forward (famously, there was originally going to be a major time jump in the books right after Joffrey came to power, which would have provided a much longer period of time to allow things at King's Landing to get worse, the younger players to age, etc, but then GRRM changed his mind).

I would actually be thrilled if the first episode of next season cold opens with the ending aftermath of a battle versus ice zombies, and as the humans are regrouping from the hard win we meet a early-20s female knight who we eventually realize is Lady Mormont. Young Lady Mormont is great and all, but please, throw us deep into the winter and let's take the story from there, don't have the feared long winter end up being resolved 2 months in.
posted by tocts at 3:46 AM on June 27, 2016 [2 favorites]


LYANNA leans over to NED.

LYANNA [whispering, inaudibly]
"so what does Bill Murray say at the end of Lost in Translation, anyway"

posted by DoctorFedora at 4:48 AM on June 27, 2016 [31 favorites]


Yeah, that whole whispering inaudibly was complete bullshit and was just another sign that the show has shifted from character to spectacle. While I enjoyed the season overall, the lack of characters actually talking to each other and developing or furthering bonds was sadly noticeable. They could have shaved a good five minutes off of the Sept scene and used that establish what the hell was going through Sansa's mind in terms of not telling Jon about the Vale troops. But it's all handwaved away and for me the show loses by not anchoring the characters by describing what their motivations and reasons are.

The last two episodes have been immediately satisfying, but upon reflection I'm hungry for something more fulfilling. Something where character isn't so routinely put to the side in order to advance the plot.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:34 AM on June 27, 2016 [6 favorites]


NOBODY WASTES THAT MUCH DYE ON SAILS AND DEFINITELY NOT RED AND BLACK THOSE ARE FUCKING EXPENSIVE AND FADE IN LIKE SECONDS IN THE SUN.

All men must dye.
posted by RobotHero at 5:45 AM on June 27, 2016 [56 favorites]


hell i just wanna know how long it takes to travel over the Narrow Sea

I sure hope it's not too long since it looks like Daenerys is going to make everyone stand on the foredeck staring west the whole damn trip!
posted by nicwolff at 5:57 AM on June 27, 2016 [13 favorites]


Cersei in straight up Romulian outfits.

Sure, but did no one else notice the High Sparrow decked out in a new, non-filthy robe? I think he may have even washed his face. Pretty spiffy!
posted by paper chromatographologist at 6:08 AM on June 27, 2016 [11 favorites]


atoxyl: "Of course there are implied time jumps - they've just gotten so loose about exactly how much time has been jumped in each plot line that it doesn't feel like it holds together."

The show is pretty vague about time in general. The lack of normal seasons makes it hard to tell how many years have passed since the start of the show. Come to think of it, I can't remember anyone in the show mentioning any calendar system or did I just miss that?
posted by octothorpe at 6:10 AM on June 27, 2016


Yeah, that whole whispering inaudibly was complete bullshit

I wanted to laugh out loud when the inaudible whisper thing happened. Like, really? You're gonna build up this scene to satisfy book readers, even though you've given show watchers almost no reason to care about it, and then you're going to fucking *not even say the words out loud*?

The way we got to hear everything but the Big Reveal was hilarious. Makes me wonder if Jon's parentage isn't really going to turn out to be a decisive factor on the show. That ol' subversion of expectations again!
posted by mediareport at 7:00 AM on June 27, 2016 [3 favorites]


I wanted to laugh out loud when the inaudible whisper thing happened. Like, really? You're gonna build up this scene to satisfy book readers, even though you've given show watchers almost no reason to care about it, and then you're going to fucking *not even say the words out loud*?

Maybe GRRM hasn't decided yet. He told HBO that baby Jon was in the tower of joy, and then was like, but I haven't written that part yet so...
posted by dis_integration at 7:02 AM on June 27, 2016


Yall think Tommen killed himself because of Margery's death or was he more like "Fuck it. My mom's going to ruin everything I try to do anyways"?
posted by LizBoBiz at 7:06 AM on June 27, 2016 [6 favorites]


The show is pretty vague about time in general. The lack of normal seasons makes it hard to tell how many years have passed since the start of the show. Come to think of it, I can't remember anyone in the show mentioning any calendar system or did I just miss that?

I do not believe so, except for speculation about how long Winter may last.

The books go into a little more detail about the calendar, but not much.
posted by zarq at 7:13 AM on June 27, 2016


Yall think Tommen killed himself because of Margery's death or was he more like "Fuck it. My mom's going to ruin everything I try to do anyways"?

Tommen was completely lost after Tywin's death, and didn't find himself as a King again until he was reborn under the High Sparrow's tutelage. I think it's more than Margery's death, and the death of the Faith that made him jump. And shock. But really, when Cersei says to the Top Nun "he is your god now" or whatever, there's a mirror there for Tommen. Who is his god now? Death and destruction, it seems like. Who would want to rule over those ruins? Not a sweet boy like Tommen.
posted by dis_integration at 7:14 AM on June 27, 2016 [11 favorites]


Maybe GRRM hasn't decided yet.

Who gives a shit, it's the show, not the books. HBO can do whatever they want at this point, just cut the damn cord already. They've been half treading water for two seasons at least.

That said, I found the Sam's introduction to the Citadel hilarious. It was like being in the DMV, with the "This is very irregular".


Yall think Tommen killed himself because of Margery's death or was he more like "Fuck it. My mom's going to ruin everything I try to do anyways"?


Tommen was just done. He would have made a wise and just ruler, had he been trained for it and with the right advisers. Tywin had his faults, but he definitely preferred a peaceful kingdom (with his family in power of course) rather than petty politics.

So Tommen comes along and has the right temperament, needing decent advisers, yet he's just a pawn in everyone's game, despite being the King. His mother killed his beloved wife (among others) and really who wouldn't be majorly depressed over losing Natalie Dormer.

If he had stayed alive, what was he to do? Either be under his mother's thumb or rise up and have her executed. Neither was palatable, so he made his exit. The world was literally too cruel for his to go on.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:14 AM on June 27, 2016 [12 favorites]


That said, I found the Sam's introduction to the Citadel hilarious.

Oh man, the hopeful look on Sam's face with his "it's life that's irregular?" was everything.
posted by TwoStride at 7:18 AM on June 27, 2016 [8 favorites]


Two side notes:

First, gruesome as it may be, I bet that Walder's last meal was delicious. You just know Arya was adapting a recipe she learned from Hot Pie.

Second, I find myself wondering what it means for Cersei to have chosen a non-Maester as her, uh, Maester. Specifically, the Maesters would in normal times not take sides in a war between the houses. This is different, though; we have the potential for Stark vs. Lannister, with the former still taking the counsel of the Maesters of the Citadel, and the latter having thrown them out in favor of someone they threw out for being dangerous and meddling with that which should not be meddled with.

Will this cause the Citadel to for once take a side?
posted by tocts at 7:23 AM on June 27, 2016 [6 favorites]


I bet that Walder's last meal was delicious. You just know Arya was adapting a recipe she learned from Hot Pie.

The best pies in Westeros!
posted by capricorn at 7:30 AM on June 27, 2016 [4 favorites]


Who is the current Maester at Winterfell? I don't think it's been established. Can't imagine that'll just use the one who served the Boltons.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:39 AM on June 27, 2016


"All men must dye."

The King in the Thread!
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 7:56 AM on June 27, 2016 [12 favorites]


This is the second episode this season where I heard Low's Murderer playing in my head. First, we had Ian McShane's character, and now Melissandre. The lyrics:
One more thing before I go
One more thing I'll ask you Lord
You may need a murderer
Someone to do your dirty work

Don't act so innocent
I've seen you pound your fist into the earth
And I've read your book
It seems that you could use another fool

Well, I'm cruel and I look right through
You must have more important things to do
So if you need a murderer
Someone to do your dirty work
Plus, the total tone of the song fits. Maybe I'll make a fanvid with scenes of those two. (hah.)


Other random thought: anyone else think Cersei would ask Qyburn to bring Tommen back, or he'd offer? No? I was hoping to make some "The Mountain and The Molehill" joke about Qyburn's re-creations.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:00 AM on June 27, 2016 [6 favorites]


Jacqueline: I would really love an illustrated children's storybook of all of Old Nan's stories. GOT marketing tie-in people, pls get on that.

The white crows, flowing from the Citadel like ash from a fire, off to tell the world that winter was coming made me think of a kids book where a little bunny sets off a game of telephone with animals, passing word that it's Spring. In other words, there are a lot of kids books to be made here.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:03 AM on June 27, 2016 [3 favorites]


TwoStride: Oh man, the hopeful look on Sam's face with his "it's life that's irregular?" was everything.

But then after his fleeting moment of sass, he shrugged when Gilly and little Sam were turned away from the library, as if to say "you know how it is here, books before broads and babes, sorry!"
posted by filthy light thief at 8:06 AM on June 27, 2016 [1 favorite]


I wanted to laugh out loud when the inaudible whisper thing happened. Like, really? You're gonna build up this scene to satisfy book readers, even though you've given show watchers almost no reason to care about it, and then you're going to fucking *not even say the words out loud*?

They wanted to get all fancy and reveal the name with a quick cut to Jon's face instead of dialogue. That pissed me off.

Cersei seriously underestimated her son's love for Margery. If her head wasn't so far up her own ass she'd have held her back with Tommen in the Keep. Then she'd still have her son. Perhaps she meant for him to die.

What authority did the Faith Militant have in holding all of those people in the Sept? Not that getting out ten seconds earlier would have mattered, but how do they justify forcing the public to watch a trial. That made no sense.
posted by GrapeApiary at 8:08 AM on June 27, 2016 [1 favorite]


What authority did the Faith Militant have in holding all of those people in the Sept?

Might makes right, even when its wrong.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:16 AM on June 27, 2016 [1 favorite]


If her head wasn't so far up her own ass she'd have held her back with Tommen in the Keep. Then she'd still have her son. Perhaps she meant for him to die.

I wonder about this, because Cersei very much made the decision to leave Tommen alone in his chambers (she could have waited on inflicting the Mountain on Unella until she had a chance to talk her son and comfort him and maybe even explain what she did and why. Tommen would have ended up back under her wing and she could basically have ruled through him and at least have one child to hold on to.

But she left him alone. She didn't kill him. But she left him alone.

I wonder if she decided that she would leave him to Fate. If he wanted to remain King, she would have worked with that, but she was willing to accept his death regardless.
posted by sparklemotion at 8:33 AM on June 27, 2016


The question I keep coming back to is: did Cersei intend for Tommen to be forced out in some way at the start of this plan? Not necessarily (though maybe) killed, but out of the picture? Because she was having her coronation garments fitted and tailored well before his suicide, right?
posted by DirtyOldTown at 8:36 AM on June 27, 2016 [2 favorites]


Tommen betrayed Cersei, which in her eyes, probably meant that he was dead to her. She was pretty unmoved when she saw his body. Ice cold!
posted by Fister Roboto at 8:37 AM on June 27, 2016 [2 favorites]


While I enjoyed the season overall, the lack of characters actually talking to each other and developing or furthering bonds was sadly noticeable...it's all handwaved away and for me the show loses by not anchoring the characters by describing what their motivations and reasons are.

Yep. Great moments throughout the last half of the season, but the incoherence of the motivations of major characters and the colossally stupid lack of basic communication about major questions (Bran not asking the friendly half-zombie about the zombie mark that let the Night King break a magic barrier, e.g., even as he says "Thank you Uncle Benjen" after a conversation about the magic Wall) was so absurd it's really hard to love the show instead of just like it sometimes. Certainly not even close to the way I loved better-written shows like Deadwood, Mad Men, etc.

Also, I seem to be the only person who disliked the over-obvious pop piano music at the start of the King's Landing sequence. It felt really out-of-place, as if from another show entirely. Have they ever used similar sounds before? Then comes the building cello and strings, which I admit always sound great, but here they were so in-your-face, what with the demonic choir and organ as the kids do their stabbings, that it was hard not to wonder how a better show could have built suspense without them. Still, it was a powerful, poignant sequence.

Loved the scenes with Daario and Tyrion and Daenerys. When Dany says "I can't bring a lover to Westeros" you can hear Tyrion's regret over bringing his own to King's Landing. And that line, "A great number of women, I imagine" in response to "Who can follow Daenerys Stormborn?" was funny, sharp and perfect.
posted by mediareport at 8:46 AM on June 27, 2016 [5 favorites]


Choosing love over duty seems to be disastrous in this world.

Daenerys, Jon Snow, and _maybe_ Sansa, on the off chance she's actually drawn to Baelish, have chosen to fulfil obligations to their families or followers over being faithful to their lovers. Ned Stark left his family for his king, also. Sansa also has been through two arranged marriages to men she wasn't at all in love with.

Robb Stark, Rhaegar Targaryen, Cersei and Jaime Lannister, all have chosen love over duty, and this seems to ultimately harm not only themselves, but many many people around them.
posted by amtho at 8:58 AM on June 27, 2016 [2 favorites]


How is the Citadel -- with its starchitect library -- apparently so magnificently rich? It's not like Sam arrives with a tuition payment. Are maesters a subscription service that the Houses pay for?

The manner of Pycelle's death rather belied Qyburn's "I bear you no ill-will" comment. Presumably that was really Cersei taking out a hit on Pycelle, who she's always obviously neither trusted or liked.

There was an unpleasant "and now I'm going to have the Mountain rape you" undertone to Cersei tormenting the septa; and the show played that implied rape as a fist-pump yay-Cersei-gets-payback moment with her "Shame!" callback.

Overall: this felt very much like a "sorry George, but we can't wait for you any longer" acceleration towards the finish. Kings Landing and Mereen holding patterns wrapped up to set up the fight for the Throne; power consolidated in the North to set up the fight for the world.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 9:01 AM on June 27, 2016 [1 favorite]


Cersei seriously underestimated her son's love for Margery. If her head wasn't so far up her own ass she'd have held her back with Tommen in the Keep. Then she'd still have her son. Perhaps she meant for him to die.

No. But it's been clear she never understood him. She hated her arranged marriage, so could not conceive of Tommen actually loving Margaery. She thought it was just sex, but it was far, far more.

I don't think she could easily have withheld Margaery without someone getting wise, though. Even Margaery herself. It's not like she would have been just cool with her family dying.
posted by corb at 9:14 AM on June 27, 2016 [3 favorites]


And it's not like she wanted Margaery to live.

Though I do wonder what would have happened if Oleana had agreed to work with Cersei.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:21 AM on June 27, 2016


There was an unpleasant "and now I'm going to have the Mountain rape you" undertone to Cersei tormenting the septa; and the show played that implied rape as a fist-pump yay-Cersei-gets-payback moment with her "Shame!" callback.

I think the show wanted to remind those of us who were rooting for Cersei to burn the motherfucker down that Cersei has always been a deeply horrible person. The instant green death of hundreds (thousands?) of people was awful, but "a million deaths is a statistic." It didn't have the full emotional heft.

Even just being waterboarded with wine might not have done it either -- we all hated Unella, and drowning in wine by Cersei's hand's would have seemed like a "just" outcome for her.

But, Cersei took it a step farther than that. Which reminds us all that she's more of a Ramsay than an Arya. It's supposed to be unpleasant.
posted by sparklemotion at 9:22 AM on June 27, 2016 [10 favorites]


I found Sam's introduction to the Citadel hilarious.

Like someone inserted a scene from Brazil. I am not looking forward to a whole season of Hogwarts-style shenanigans while we forget to warn everyone about the white walkers.
posted by mediareport at 9:22 AM on June 27, 2016 [11 favorites]


> If he had stayed alive, what was he to do? Either be under his mother's thumb or rise up and have her executed. Neither was palatable, so he made his exit. The world was literally too cruel for his to go on.

Well and also: let's picture a world where Tommen finds a reserve of inner strength and/or madness and decides to choose option 2: execute Cersei.

How does he do it? Like, Tommen steps up to the window, thinks about it for a second, and steps down filled with grim resolve. He's got an order in his mind: Cersei's head, Qyburn's head, right now.

To whom does he issue this order? Pycelle is dead. Kevan is dead. Mace is dead. The High Sparrow is dead. Are there even any members of the kingsguard still alive? Basically, the only people who'd be up for organizing a posse to collect Cersei are all out of town, because everyone in-town who could have threatened her just got blowed up.

Basically the only thing Tommen could have conceivably done, other than jump out the window, would have been to pay a visit to his mother with intent to stab her to death himself. And even that probably wouldn't work given that she's got a giant armored monstrosity following her around at all times. And even if Tommen managed to kill his mom, and even if he wasn't torn limb from limb by zombie mountain immediately after, the best he could hope for would be a quick death at the hands of Qyburn's murder flock, with the worst case scenario being locked in the deepest basement and used as part of a series of gruesome experiments on the powers of king's blood.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 9:24 AM on June 27, 2016 [7 favorites]


Tommen was just done.

Yes. It was completely shocking and unexpected, yet at the same time completely obvious and perfect. Loved how it was shot, too - window frame, he walks off, window shot lingers, he reappears and walks through it silently.
posted by dnash at 9:25 AM on June 27, 2016 [10 favorites]


I'm just glad he wasn't killed by The Mountain, who only came in to keep him from going to the trial.


Brandon Blatcher: hell i just wanna know how long it takes to travel over the Narrow Sea

nicwolff: I sure hope it's not too long since it looks like Daenerys is going to make everyone stand on the foredeck staring west the whole damn trip!

Not everyone, just the Unsullied. And I think they chose to stand, because ... order? Organization? Discipline? And I'm a bit sad we didn't see any seasick Dothraki yet.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:28 AM on June 27, 2016 [2 favorites]


How is the Citadel -- with its starchitect library -- apparently so magnificently rich?

Are they actually rich in money, though? Or just rich in knowledge. I only thought the latter.

In fact what I thought was, how much massively important knowledge and science are they sitting on that could be used to help the world around them? The armillary spheres hanging from the ceiling (btw, awesome nod to the opening credits there, love it) seem to suggest they could have a vast knowledge of astronomy and physics. Do they understand how the different kinds of magic work?
posted by dnash at 9:31 AM on June 27, 2016


I think part of Tommen's death is that it shows how different he is from Cersei. She would never do what he did, give up. She could have kept him under guard and in fact she made a point of not letting him be at the conflagration. But I just don't think she imagined he'd jump to his death.
posted by French Fry at 9:33 AM on June 27, 2016 [2 favorites]


Expected Tommen not to survive the episode but was surprised by the manner of death.

Me too. The whole season I'd been expecting Cersei to be the one who killed him. I guess in effect she did, by pulling the whole rug from under him and leaving him feeling like he had no reason to keep living. I wonder if he would've made a different choice if he'd known Jaime was back?

Loved how Dany was all, "It's not you, it's me...Well, no, if you're gonna beg like Keith Sweat then it's totally you!"

The only moment I wasn't thrilled about was Arya's. I'm pretty sure I heard the Mission Impossible theme when she pulled off that mask.

Sigh, now the long wait until next season when almost everybody comes gunning for Queen Cersei.
posted by fuse theorem at 9:40 AM on June 27, 2016


Also, I seem to be the only person who disliked the over-obvious pop piano music at the start of the King's Landing sequence. It felt really out-of-place, as if from another show entirely.
I also thought it was pretty weird, but I've seen multiple people praise it, so I guess we're in the minority.
posted by dfan at 9:41 AM on June 27, 2016 [1 favorite]


I also wasn't a fan of the dramatic!piano.
posted by TwoStride at 9:48 AM on June 27, 2016 [1 favorite]


I was! That opening montage was really effective.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 9:53 AM on June 27, 2016 [6 favorites]


I hereby call to order the first meeting of the Didn't Like the Opening Music in Season 6, Episode 10 club.

Did anyone bring cookies?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:56 AM on June 27, 2016 [8 favorites]


I was! That opening montage was really effective.

I really liked the opening, but I think that at least part of why I liked it was because it was so different than anything GOT had done, in show, before.

I could see the change being jarring for folks so I understand the point of view of people who didn't like it, even if they are wrong.
posted by sparklemotion at 10:14 AM on June 27, 2016 [2 favorites]


Juxtaposition: two episodes ago, Cersei in the gallery watching Tommen take the throne; this episode, Jaime in the gallery watching Cersei take the throne.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 10:23 AM on June 27, 2016 [1 favorite]


two episodes ago, Cersei in the gallery watching Tommen take the throne; this episode, Jaime in the gallery watching Cersei take the throne.

There's been a lot of watching of the Throne from that alcove. I think Jamie and Cersei watching it as Jon Arryn was laid out, Sansa watching Joeffrey, Margaery and Cersei watching Tommen. It's like the quiet scheming corner.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 10:26 AM on June 27, 2016 [10 favorites]


also the part of that set they actually built other than the chair/altar

I used to build sets for movies/shows and this is always my first thought when I see a piece of structure repeatedly.
posted by French Fry at 10:40 AM on June 27, 2016 [11 favorites]


Did she take faces with her? Can she still do that thing? How is this a thing?
Didn't she remove the Waif's face two episodes ago?
posted by larrybob at 10:53 AM on June 27, 2016


Cersei does not bother looking more than one level deep in any plan. Even without the prophecy I don't believe that Cersei will live much longer.
posted by rdr at 10:56 AM on June 27, 2016 [1 favorite]


Did she take faces with her? Can she still do that thing? How is this a thing?
Didn't she remove the Waif's face two episodes ago?


Yes, but where did she get the servant girl's face from? Did she kill someone, an innocent, or did she visit the local cemetery?

Oh Arya, YOU.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 10:58 AM on June 27, 2016 [3 favorites]


Didn't she remove the Waif's face two episodes ago?

She gave the Waif's face to Jaqen H'gar.
posted by TwoStride at 10:58 AM on June 27, 2016 [1 favorite]


maybe there's a 'have a face, leave a face/need a face, take a face' bin at the house of the undying
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:07 AM on June 27, 2016 [53 favorites]


I've always had the impression that any of the faces in the House of Black and White are magically available to the Faceless Men at a moment's notice. They don't actually physically carry them around with them. Remember just before Arya went blind when Jaqen (or was it Jaqen?) drank poison and ripped off like 10 face in a row, including Arya's? It's magic.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 11:16 AM on June 27, 2016 [3 favorites]


What happens if two people want the same face at the same time? Kernel panic?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:25 AM on June 27, 2016 [20 favorites]


I've always had the impression that any of the faces in the House of Black and White are magically available to the Faceless Men at a moment's notice. They don't actually physically carry them around with them. Remember just before Arya went blind when Jaqen (or was it Jaqen?) drank poison and ripped off like 10 face in a row, including Arya's? It's magic.

Yeah however the faces work you don't actually have to have the face with you, in your satchel. When the faceless men take a face off, it just disappears. They don't put it back in their pocket before they get to killing. The faces seem to be part of you, or a part of the magic. Which is a good reason not to let A Faceless Girl get away alive. I'm annoyed at the lack of explanation for Arya's relationship to the FM at this point. Do they condone? Do they just not care if someone leaves the cult with the magical powers? Is her despatching of the waif like double indemnity? Once a faceless man fails, you get a get-out-of-assassination-free card?
posted by dis_integration at 11:25 AM on June 27, 2016 [4 favorites]


Arya is the rogue cop who doesn't play by the rules, Jaqen is the world-weary police chief who is supposed to rein her in but secretly roots for her. Simple as that
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:27 AM on June 27, 2016 [41 favorites]


Do they condone? Do they just not care if someone leaves the cult with the magical powers?

I don't think they care if Arya leaves and uses the power. The Pointless Men seem to be big on justice, to some extent, so Arya doing that fits with that part of their philosophy.
The fact that she didn't kill the actress properly convinced them, (well J'aquen, 'cause it's not like we saw anyone else), that she wouldn't use the power to just kill indiscriminately. Arya's judgement is trusted, while the Waif's is not. Or was not.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:36 AM on June 27, 2016 [2 favorites]


... But the actress was still killed because a death was promised. They seem not big on justice, but rather big on honoring contracts.
posted by TwoStride at 11:39 AM on June 27, 2016 [1 favorite]


My guess for Arya's series ending is that she kills the people she needs to kill and is both at peace but also too far gone to go back to the straight life. She returns to Braavos and becomes truly Faceless, leaving Arya Stark behind her forever.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 11:39 AM on June 27, 2016 [8 favorites]


Arya is the rogue cop who doesn't play by the rules, Jaqen is the world-weary police chief who is supposed to rein her in but secretly roots for her. Simple as that

Here is a bushel of virtual favorites. This is the perfect answer.

Accept - I think Jaqen's smiles and leading Arya the way he has is supposed to indicate that he had plans for her all along, and that she is now ready to be off fulfilling them. Part of me thinks that Arya was his assignment from the beginning, and their meeting was never chance. I think the God's are rolling dice, and all the Stark kids had rolls to play.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 11:41 AM on June 27, 2016 [5 favorites]


... But the actress was still killed because a death was promised. They seem not big on justice, but rather big on honoring contracts.

A little bit of column A and a bit of column B.

Sometimes the Many Faced God is promised a name and must have one. Other times (such as J'aqen killing multiple guards to get Arya, Gendry and Hot Pie free, even though he only need one more death) is just fine too. Interns have rules, masters have guidelines or helpful hints.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:46 AM on June 27, 2016 [6 favorites]


"many-faced god" does imply a certain amount of doctrinal latitude, yes
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:50 AM on June 27, 2016 [10 favorites]


Oh yeah the whispering thing was super-dumb. I forgot it even happened because I have become so completely bored with secret plot-elongating mysteries in tv shows.
posted by turbid dahlia at 12:15 PM on June 27, 2016


I liked the whispering thing, it was a cool reveal, I had no idea Jon's father was actually Sassafras Rhubarb
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:16 PM on June 27, 2016 [29 favorites]


I thought it was straight up don't steal from the many-faced god. So if you save somebody's life you have to balance it by killing someone else. All the extra killing is like leaving a tip.

Which is why Arya was free to go. Jaquen gave her name to the mfg and she killed the waif in her place. And now she's nameless (cause you can't give her name to the mfg again).
posted by zinon at 12:16 PM on June 27, 2016 [6 favorites]


Cersei's brilliant plan: Light a candle in the wildfire cache, then get one of the little birds to lead one of the Faith Militant away from going to her chambers and instead underground and through winding passages, so he can then be stabbed, but not killed, allowing him to crawl to the burning down candle with the hope that he might prevent the explosion.

So basically Cersei is The Joker.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:21 PM on June 27, 2016 [14 favorites]


Or an NBC tv executive.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:22 PM on June 27, 2016 [3 favorites]


So Jaime is Harley Quinn? That kind of works.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 12:27 PM on June 27, 2016 [3 favorites]


I don't think that Lancel getting led down to the catacombs was explicitly part of Cersei's Qyburn's* plan, though it was convenient for D&D's plan of revealing the wildfire and creating suspense.

I think probably the Birds had been instructed to watch for Faith Militant leaving the Sept and lead them somewhere where they could be taken out quietly (you don't want little children stabbing monks in the street, you know?).

So that particular Bird happening to catch Lancel's interest and run in the general direction of one of the caches (was it the only one? idk?) seems like it was just convenient for the show and not really plot relevant at all.

*Cersei is not really logistically minded. She likely didn't have much to do with the plan besides "make sure Tommen doesn 't go to court that day and then blow up the Sept"
posted by sparklemotion at 12:29 PM on June 27, 2016 [4 favorites]


*Cersei is not really logistically minded. She likely didn't have much to do with the plan besides "make sure Tommen doesn 't go to court that day and then blow up the Sept"


Isn't that the entire plan?
posted by FallowKing at 12:41 PM on June 27, 2016 [1 favorite]


I'm also of the opinion that Jaime is being written as though he might end up killing Cersei. Possibly in a murder/suicide. They've spent an awful lot of screen time discussing various people's opinions that Jaime is really at heart an honorable man, despite the horrible things he's done (all for love, he says). Of course just because they're laying the groundwork doesn't mean it won't turn out to be red herring.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 12:46 PM on June 27, 2016 [1 favorite]


you don't want little children stabbing monks in the street, you know?

*makes notes about proper social etiquette in notebook*

Oh I get it wasn't a master plan, but that sort of cliche tension building is what's becoming more prevalent in the series. It's not really something you can enjoy thinking hard about because it all falls apart or makes not a lick of damn sense.

Such as Sansa again not telling Jon about Baelish. She knows he's willing to burn pretty much everyone except her so maybe a little chat with the bro this time around.? Not doing it the first time makes some sense, but repeating it is just asking for trouble.

Also, the brother-sister chemistry between Kit Harrington and Sophia Turner as Jon and Sansa is just great. They're both talented actors and evidently good friends inreal life and the two scenes this season of them talking about mundane things were really good. One was back at Castle Black, where she was talking about how she treated him horribly as kid and the other was them discussing what to do with the master bedroom were really great interactions of the characters. Both scenes produced genuine smiles! It's shame we haven't see more of them, when you'd think there would be. She's gotta be curious about him coming back from the dead and what that was like/about.

That said, I do think the playing off of whether they'll trust each other or at least whether Sansa will trust Jon is an interesting angle that may yield interesting developments.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:47 PM on June 27, 2016


By the way, Stabbenjammer Kids... were they ex-spiders for Varys? Or just minions rounded up by Cersei's mad scientist goon?

Where did they come from? Was that explained or shown and I missed it? Or is "he rounded them up" the complete answer there?
posted by DirtyOldTown at 12:50 PM on June 27, 2016 [1 favorite]


Add one part "Varys' little birds" and one part "he rounded them up" and you got it.
posted by yellowbinder at 12:52 PM on June 27, 2016 [1 favorite]


Isn't that the entire plan?

How do you (safely) get all the wildfire to where you want it to be? How do you keep it reasonably localized so that the whole city doesn't burn down? How do you light it without dying immediately yourself? How do we make sure that Pycelle is taken out without making too much noise?

I just don't see Cersei getting into the weeds on those kinds of details, and why should she, when she has Qyburn to help her get everything in place? I'm sure the "what would happen if we just blew them all up?" idea came from Cersei in the first place though.

By the way, Stabbenjammer Kids... were they ex-spiders for Varys? Or just minions rounded up by Cersei's mad scientist goon?

I bet it was a combination -- Varys would have selected kids with a certain set of skills (spies and message runners), and when Qyburn took over, he probably started asking those kids if they had friends who were a little more on the stabby-side.
posted by sparklemotion at 12:52 PM on June 27, 2016 [1 favorite]


Jon's "No, really, Sansa - you should totes be in charge 'cause your strategy won the war and you're the real Stark" lasted about 30 seconds into the Town-hall. Sansa was totally Mormonted. Kept waiting for Jon to say, "No, no - Queen of the North! Queen of the North!" Then Littlefinger gives her the look like: "See? You had your chance at relevance."

One wonders how Sansa is going to feel about taking a back seat.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 12:59 PM on June 27, 2016 [6 favorites]


That's right, they were the spider's birds, not the spider's spiders.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 1:04 PM on June 27, 2016


I wondered if the plan was for Jon to pull a Theon, and defer to his sister, but I didn't get that impression (it would have been easy enough to talk to the houses that were clearly on their side to make sure that they spoke up to say that it should be a true-born Stark at the helm... you know Lyanna wouldn't see the problem with putting the woman in charge).

I honestly think that Sansa is purposefully holding back from being saddled with the responsibilities of Winterfell because she wants to be open to considering something along the lines of what Littlefinger is proposing.

That's right, they were the spider's birds, not the spider's spiders.

I don't think The Spider ever had spiders. I realized recently that we knew that the birds were little kids in season 1.
posted by sparklemotion at 1:07 PM on June 27, 2016 [4 favorites]


One wonders how Sansa is going to feel about taking a back seat.

She seems ok with it, which she probably will be, until she's not.

Jon really doesn't seem eager to be in command again, and who can blame him? Doing the right thing can get your ass killed by your own side!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:09 PM on June 27, 2016 [1 favorite]


That was what I meant, sm. I had the term wrong.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 1:09 PM on June 27, 2016 [1 favorite]


Apparently there's a lot I don't understand about arachnology.
posted by RobotHero at 1:16 PM on June 27, 2016


How do you (safely) get all the wildfire to where you want it to be? How do you keep it reasonably localized so that the whole city doesn't burn down?

I was under the impression that it was already all down there, in place, under the Sept (as well as under every other major site in Queen's Landing). At least that's what Tyrion tells Daenerys when he's trying to talk her out of burning up the entire fleet of the Masters. Presumably keeping it localized was just a matter of not setting all of the sites off at once.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 1:23 PM on June 27, 2016 [2 favorites]


DirtyOldTown: Stabbenjammer Kids

I just wanted to say that this is my favorite fan-name for characters in this episode.


You Can't Tip a Buick: And even if Tommen managed to kill his mom, and even if he wasn't torn limb from limb by zombie mountain immediately after, the best he could hope for would be a quick death at the hands of Qyburn's murder flock, with the worst case scenario being locked in the deepest basement and used as part of a series of gruesome experiments on the powers of king's blood.

Then the obvious order would be to kill Qyburn then kill his mother. Really, he wouldn't have to stab her, he could easily poison her wine. But I'm not sure he knew that Qyburn was the source of the wildfire.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:32 PM on June 27, 2016


All men must dye.

Valar mordantis.
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 1:40 PM on June 27, 2016 [18 favorites]


How do you (safely) get all the wildfire to where you want it to be?
Wasn't it already down there? Zombie mountain could move it as needed.

How do you keep it reasonably localized so that the whole city doesn't burn down?
I don't think she was concerned about that.

How do you light it without dying immediately yourself?
You get a child to do it.

How do we make sure that Pycelle is taken out without making too much noise?
I think that was more for Qyburn's objectives than for the plan.
posted by FallowKing at 1:45 PM on June 27, 2016


Presumably keeping it localized was just a matter of not setting all of the sites off at once.

Assuming that the Mad King's Pyromancer hadn't set up links between the caches. Which could have been a good idea if the plan was to be able to destroy the whole city, but would have been a bad idea if the original intention back then was to strategically destroy parts of it as a defense mechanism.

There's also been some funny math when it comes to the actual amount of wildfire available. We know that the pyromancer's stepped up production at Cersei's behest before the Blackwater, and Tyrion took over command of that operation. We know that some amount of that was consumed during the battle, but was it all of it? If not, why didn't Tyrion use more? But if it was all of it, did the pyromancers (how many of them are there anyways) just start producing more again? Why?

The point remains though that that's not the kind of detail that it seems to be within Cersei's character to deal with. For example, look at the way Cersei handwaved the battle plans for the Blackwater as "pshaw... we've got wildfire." She knew enough to know it was a powerful tool, but didn't have the insight about how best to use it.

So, since this subthread started with nitpicking about "Cersei's plan," I still hold that the nits to be picked were probably things that Qyburn put in place at Cersei's behest.
posted by sparklemotion at 1:45 PM on June 27, 2016 [1 favorite]


Agreed. Cersei clearly delegated the wildfire plan to Qyburn and the Children of the Corn.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 1:51 PM on June 27, 2016 [3 favorites]


So, since this subthread started with nitpicking about "Cersei's plan," I still hold that the nits to be picked were probably things that Qyburn put in place at Cersei's behest.

That's exactly the sort of thing I'd expect from Cersei apologist!

To be clear, my problems were more with the editing of the scenes to raise tension. The whole "burning candle, while he reach it in time to prevent destruction?!" is a cliche and thus boring. It mostly works here because the final act of Cersei killing everyone tops the cliche, but that doesn't make using the cliche good, as noted in Vol IV, section II, paragraph VVI of Pedantic Nerdisms (the updated late June 2016 edition, not the early June 2016 edition which was riddled with errors and crumbs).

Cersei deciding to only have the Sept blown up for her trial is almost a brilliant stroke on her part. As narrative, it's great and was joyfully unexpected. That only thing I hated about it was that in the deadpool at the GoT party I was at, my wife managed to get all three of her picks in one sweep with the explosion of the Sept. Which is probably something I should keep an eye.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 2:02 PM on June 27, 2016 [1 favorite]


Why in the world are so many people so critical of this show and its writing? I have never seen such an incredible burden of proof put on, what is generally considered, one of the most entertaining shows on television right now.

Cersei wanted to kill particular people- dark meister wanted to help- someone came up with a plan- plan completed successfully- cue the internet splitting of hairs on a gnat's ass over this.
posted by incolorinred at 2:04 PM on June 27, 2016 [4 favorites]


Actually, it was a flea, not a gnat.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 2:11 PM on June 27, 2016 [6 favorites]


wasn't it a nit? I swear I heard it was a nit.
posted by mwhybark at 2:20 PM on June 27, 2016 [1 favorite]


Changing subjects: Any particular reason Jon wouldn't ask Melissandre to try and bring Rickon back? It might not have worked, but you know, ask?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 2:22 PM on June 27, 2016 [7 favorites]


cue the internet splitting of hairs on a gnat's ass over this.

It's Nerd Love. Nobody who has watched six seasons of a show that goes out of it's way to hurt the audience is going to be in a Fanfare thread nitpicking things except for the fact that they they didn't get enough from the show in the first place and want to keep the magic going. I feel like, after this much time, the show has outlasted the hate watchers, who had plenty of good reasons to leave at season 4 (so rapey) or season 5 (more rapey, also kinda boring).

The whole "burning candle, while he reach it in time to prevent destruction?!" is a cliche and thus boring.

Actually, given that this show is this show, there was a large part of me that expected him to be successful. Because that at that moment I was still rooting for Cersei, and if there is one thing that the writer's like to do it's to crush the plans of the people you are rooting for. Consider the counterfactual - Lancel blows the candles out, maybe he dies, maybe he manages to get word out about what he saw, but either way Cersei has failed to show up for her trial and will be really pissed that her plan didn't work. It would have been good TV that way too.

Changing subjects: Any particular reason Jon wouldn't ask Melissandre to try and bring Rickon back? It might not have worked, but you know, ask?

Probably for the same reasons that Jon didn't want to be brought back again. At least now Rickon is at peace.
posted by sparklemotion at 2:25 PM on June 27, 2016 [4 favorites]


Why in the world are so many people so critical of this show and its writing?

So many? How many is that?

As to why there is any criticism, there are many reasons but mostly when there is terrible writing, it stands out a lot more on a show that is generally quite good. Arya's San Francisco fruit stand chase through the streets lets make sure the audience sees her leaving a blood trail sequence was worthy of rolling one's eyes. It was like eating a 5 star meal on a paper plate. Similarly, the candle burning down to ignite the fire just before it could be stopped feels like they thought hey, let's do something like they'd do in the old Batman TV series. It grates some of us. Others are fine with it.

This is a show that's on HBO, not NBC. Sure it's unfair that something that is usually at such a high standard is held to that standard but that's the way things go, in drama and in life.
posted by juiceCake at 2:28 PM on June 27, 2016 [3 favorites]


Nobody should ever have to justify thoughtful criticism of a show as alternately wonderful and pathetic - so often and in such rapid succession - as this one.
posted by mediareport at 2:36 PM on June 27, 2016 [1 favorite]


In the Citadel, not sure what kind of astronomy would explain the long winters and long summers. Predictions on the future is not their specialty? Seems like they get their information from the past, and some of their records aren’t up to date with some irregularities. It seems like they knew the king and others were dead though.
I wonder what other information are stored there?
posted by metafus at 2:48 PM on June 27, 2016


I actually don't have a problem with letting the criticism fly; it actually can influence the writers sometimes to know that there is a very active and critical fan base to keep happy. It just strikes me as a phenomenon going on (judging from both online commentary and offline discussions with friends) out there with more than a few people with a love/hate thing for the show. Again, it probably keeps the writers on their toes, so not a bad thing. Better than blind worship, which tends to devolve shows into screenwriting nightmares.
posted by incolorinred at 3:00 PM on June 27, 2016


> How is the Citadel -- with its starchitect library -- apparently so magnificently rich?
Oldtown - the city of which the Citadel is a part - is very old in Westeros: it was the first city, built some 8,000 years before current events. It's remained relatively unscathed; if it simply took the strategy of ancient Alexandria (from which the Hightower and the Citadel itself are almost certainly derived) and confiscate a copy of every book that passes through the city gates or lands at its docks, it could build up enormous wealth over time. It's also very clear that Maesters are rare, highly prized, and exclusive to the Citadel: they might be "sold" for service once they graduate.

On another note: I appreciated the parallel that Jon had with Melisandre to his brother Robb and Lord Rickard Karstark. Both were faced with unspeakable betrayal: Melisandre's sacrifice of the Princess Shireen; and Karstark's murder of young Lannister boys. In the latter case, Robb does the "right" thing, executing Rickard while knowing that it will lose him the allegiance of the Karstarks (and ultimately leading him into a fatal partnership with the Freys). In the case of Jon, executing a priestess would doubtless incur the wrath of the growing number of R'hllor adherents and The Brotherhood Without Banners, and ultimately remove any chance for further resurrection. Rather than execution, he banishes her; removing the temptation of her power. There's some hope for the boy yet.
posted by Bora Horza Gobuchul at 3:08 PM on June 27, 2016 [3 favorites]


Changing subjects: Any particular reason Jon wouldn't ask Melissandre to try and bring Rickon back? It might not have worked, but you know, ask?

No one cares about Rickon.

Jon would feel less than human after being brought back, he might not want to inflict inhumanity on his brother.
Sansa, however, should ask.
Melissandre should just be running around the battlefield trying to revive people. Maybe bring Wun Wun back.
posted by FallowKing at 3:10 PM on June 27, 2016 [5 favorites]


> I'm annoyed at the lack of explanation for Arya's relationship to the FM at this point. Do they condone? Do they just not care if someone leaves the cult with the magical powers? Is her despatching of the waif like double indemnity? Once a faceless man fails, you get a get-out-of-assassination-free card?

So here's the way I'd do it, though I'm pretty sure there's enough conclusive evidence in the show that this isn't the case. but, how I'd do it:

The waif killed Arya in the dark. When the waif (as Arya) comes to the house of black and white, Sexy Jesus recognizes her as actually being the waif underneath the Arya-face. The conversation we took as Arya's Declaration of Independence, the "you are no one," "I am Arya Stark of Winterfell and I'm going home" conversation, was not actual Arya declaring actual independence, but instead waif-Arya announcing that she's finished her preparation for her mission: she's going to go to Westeros and fuck all sorts of shit up, with the shitfuckery timed to benefit the secret interests of the House of Black and White, whatever those secret interests are.

This is why Sexy Jesus smiles and lets her leave: he understands that "I am Arya Stark" isn't Arya dropping out of magic ninja school, but instead the waif showing how well she can play her new role.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 3:14 PM on June 27, 2016 [11 favorites]


Hahahaha. The last one is perfect. I'll miss you Arya. See you next year.
posted by FallowKing at 3:16 PM on June 27, 2016 [6 favorites]


The waif killed Arya in the dark.

What an interesting idea, we should talk about it over pie!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 3:57 PM on June 27, 2016 [4 favorites]


I know, caught up in the middle, I eat pie just a little, when I think of Walder Frey
Oh no, gave up on the riddle, I cry just a little, when the Waif kills Arya in the dark
posted by prize bull octorok at 4:09 PM on June 27, 2016 [3 favorites]


It would be pretty awesome if Arya killed everybody left on her list, and ONLY THEN we find out it isn't Arya, it's The Waif. But all of the kills that Jaqen gave her were on Arya's list. Then he gives a girl her own name.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 4:43 PM on June 27, 2016 [5 favorites]


That would not be awesome and you're a Frey for suggesting it.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:55 PM on June 27, 2016 [10 favorites]


But - as much as I would find that amusing: "Arya" says to Jaqen, "You told her to kill me." So far as we have seen on screen, Jaqen has told The Waif to kill Arya, but never the other way around. And the hit order was due specifically to Arya's choice to warn the actress, so it wouldn't work to guess that Jaqen was talking to Arya in a Waif face. So I'm going with everything went down exactly as it seemed, so we could have face-changing assassin Arya running around making delicious meat pies. Which is almost fun enough to make up for the interminable lame training sequences and impervious super Arya, and how all of the rules we just spent a year teaching you about the code of the faceless men don't count if you can manage to kill The Waif.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 4:58 PM on June 27, 2016 [2 favorites]


That would not be awesome and you're a Frey for suggesting it.

Frey'd not.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 4:59 PM on June 27, 2016 [6 favorites]


Regarding the piano music -- I'm not sure if I LIKED it or not, but it was so different from anything that came before that I spent the first few minutes of the episode panicked that my TV had an audio stream problem! (Which is a thing that occasionally happens with my old and cranky TV, where I change the channel and the video changes but the audio doesn't, and I have to flip the channel again to make it stop being dumb.)
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 5:23 PM on June 27, 2016 [2 favorites]


My favorite part was when they played Yakedy Sax while Lancel was crawling to the flame.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 5:30 PM on June 27, 2016 [10 favorites]


Also, second-day thoughts, the actor who play Young Ned continues to do a really superb job being a young Sean Bean, who catches many of the same mannerisms and postures and so on without being a straight mimic. (Also the hair and makeup and wardrobe people for him do a nice job.) In the same vein, way to find the world's broodingest baby to be young Jon Snow!

Also that was not a newborn newborn, but that was a way newbornier newborn than usually plays a newborn on TV. TV usually slaps some red currant jelly on a 6-month-old and hopes nobody notices! I have friends whose preemie twin babies were newborn actors -- preemie twins are preferred, you can swap them out and at 6 weeks they can still play newborn but be on screen longer and so on -- so I know a little bit about it and I'm actually sort-of curious to hear how they settled on using an actually very young baby and how old the baby was and so on. They also actually held what I presume was the prop baby like an actual baby, which is not always the case, even on this show, as the prop babies are lighter and don't whine if you jostle them and don't actually need their heads supported so actors on take 22 tend to manhandle them a bit. Tower of Joy was a carefully-directed scene, is what I'm saying, in which they took a lot of care with the baby realism, more care than TV (and even GoT) usually takes.

Lena Headey's acting also particularly superb during the torture-of-the-septa scene, for a second I was sympathizing with Cersei instead of being totally horrified.

If you like this sort of thing, GoT actors in and out of costume. (I read in an interview that Kristofer Hivju (Tormund) grows that beard in 4-5 months. He said that Kit Harrington can grow his in "really quickly" so he can shave it during the off season but his takes 4-5 months. Which seems insanely fast to me! But maybe I do not understand male facial hair growth speeds.) Also kind-of interesting seeing in these photos how much use GoT and its makeup department make use of natural facial asymmetries.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 5:48 PM on June 27, 2016 [6 favorites]


where I change the channel and the video changes but the audio doesn't

That.....has the potential to be awesome.

I just watched the Kings Landing sequence again, and the music is so obtrusive, tries so hard, even during many of the dialogue scenes, that it's almost funny. That power ballad piano comes in and out through the entire thing, with the somewhat more appropriate angsty building cello and strings and demon choir and organ as things heat up doing most of the work.
posted by mediareport at 5:51 PM on June 27, 2016 [3 favorites]


NOBODY WASTES THAT MUCH DYE ON SAILS AND DEFINITELY NOT RED AND BLACK THOSE ARE FUCKING EXPENSIVE AND FADE IN LIKE SECONDS IN THE SUN.

I'm sure that Yara and her sailors have taught Dany's people a whole bunch of ancient, secret, Iron Island techniques for sailmaking and maintenance.

WHAT IS RED IS EVER DYED.
posted by palmcorder_yajna at 5:57 PM on June 27, 2016 [16 favorites]


(I read in an interview that Kristofer Hivju (Tormund) grows that beard in 4-5 months

Somehow it seems fitting that his beard is actually longer/wilder out of costume than in costume.
posted by TwoStride at 5:58 PM on June 27, 2016 [2 favorites]


"WHAT IS RED IS EVER DYED."

God I love you nerds.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 6:15 PM on June 27, 2016 [9 favorites]


NOBODY WASTES THAT MUCH DYE ON SAILS AND DEFINITELY NOT RED AND BLACK THOSE ARE FUCKING EXPENSIVE AND FADE IN LIKE SECONDS IN THE SUN.

My wife disagrees, saying they'd do that exactly because Daenerys wants to make an impression. That definitively sounds like something she would do.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:21 PM on June 27, 2016 [1 favorite]


I haven't shaved in about three weeks (I had surgery below my chin and am frankly afraid to shave near the still-healing incision), and four or five months would probably give me a Santa beard. Male facial hair comes in fast.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 6:51 PM on June 27, 2016


I'm also of the opinion that Jaime is being written as though he might end up killing Cersei.

What if he stabs her through the heart and makes Lightbringer II: Electric Boogaloo?
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 6:54 PM on June 27, 2016


It would take me about a month to get to a John Snow beard length.
posted by juiceCake at 6:57 PM on June 27, 2016


If you're sailing into certain battle with flammable sails you are going to dye dye dye and look spiffy. Plus if the bleach the old pain off you destroy the sails. Dye a black background on and paint on the dragons. And leave no doubt you are an invasion force.

The whole time I felt like I was yelling at the screen when the teenagers go upstairs in the abandoned house in the woods to have sex in a horror movie.

Yeah, even our kids, who can seemingly hear our door snick shut when we want to watch something commented after "yeah, we didn't knock because you guys were shouting at the tv a lot."
posted by tilde at 7:41 PM on June 27, 2016


Rewatch notes: Arya in disguise was sizing up Jamie also.

The rising tension before the Sept explosion doesn't work on repeat, as the High Sparrow looks like a damn fool as he stands there thinking.

The tension as Lancel crawls to the one candle seems even sillier second time around.

Cersei still looks like Romulan. And I don't even watch Star Trek!

Didn't realize the Lannisters burned their dead, how odd.

When Sam first sees the Citadel, it's when they're releasing the white ravens.

Melissandre is heading south. That can't be good if she mets Cersei. But it was smart of Jon not to immediately kill her. Everyone is more or less happy with her being gone, but any potential gods aren't angered.

There are rumors of the next season being short. They could lengthen it by having Olena berate the Sand Snakes and I wouldn't mind at all. Because damn they and ellaria look and sound like they're in over their hands and have no clue.

The scene between Daenerys and Tyrion is odd, as he standing on a step. He appears to be her height. It's not bad, just an interesting visual.

Yep, Baelish is still creepy as hell.

Arya may not ever be safe to have in the House. She likes killing too much. Some more time with a matured Hound may do her good.

Young Ned responds to Bran's call, even though we can't see him make from that first visit. Did Bran change the past or was it always written that he would call out "father'?

Season 7 better have a lot of Lady Mormont in it, BECAUSE.

The Northerners sure do love their dramatic proclamations. But it's interesting that they don't care that Jon's a bastard (as far as they know). It's almost an enlightened moment, spurned on by Lady Mormont.

Cersei didn't look too pleased after being crowned. But she did look in charge. In contrast, Daenerys looked quite pleased and in charge. Also, the Dothraki seemed to be helping out with running the ship.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:00 PM on June 27, 2016 [1 favorite]


"Season 7 better have a lot of Lady Mormont in it, BECAUSE. "

THR: A Salute to Season 6's Breakout Star, Lyanna Mormont

HBO behind the scenes: We Know No Scene-Stealer but the One on Bear Island, Whose Name Is Bella Ramsey

This is the actress's first role! What a find by the GoT casting department. Not easy to sell a pint-sized, self-possessed child ruler like that and make it seem serious and inspiring rather than silly. She was just great.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 8:09 PM on June 27, 2016 [17 favorites]


Paying more attention in the 'kingindanorf' scene to Sansa/LF; Sansa dutifully smiles back at a bewildered Jon, but her smile fades a bit too quickly.

Next scene, mild smile firmly on her face - cultured 'appropriate' demeanor or was she genuinely enjoying a moment of future safety?

Mild smile falters, cut to LF making a small moue - Jon being kingindanorf is a poke in the eye of LF's plans - and Sansa seriousing up; "Oh crap, LF is a threat that must be neutralized."
posted by porpoise at 8:29 PM on June 27, 2016 [2 favorites]


Dany's fleet scene - I'm not counting every single ship, but eyeballing it puts the visible number of ships at about 600 or 700 so a fleet of 1,000 ships isn't unreasonable.

I wonder if dragons can learn how to fish (for swordfish, marlin, dolphins, orcas, kraken...)?

Feeding while at sea might be an issue; but yeah, the fleet is almost certainly within sight of land, for much of the time, if not much much closer.
posted by porpoise at 8:33 PM on June 27, 2016


If anything, I can see Sansa being pissed that Jon didn't mention her in any capacity. But Jon's got his head quite understandably up his own ass, since he's back to doing what got him killed in the first place. And that was by sworn brothers, not vassal lords who pointedly refused him because of Bolton. He's got to be wondering what'll make that side of them appear again.

But he's also a born leader, so he's got to be feeling or thinking that he has a part to play in the wars to come. So part of hime wants to lead, because he did such a good job before. But...yeah, people.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:40 PM on June 27, 2016 [1 favorite]


Didn't realize the Lannisters burned their dead, how odd.

Cersei is a trailblazer.
posted by RobotHero at 9:02 PM on June 27, 2016 [4 favorites]


Didn't realize the Lannisters burned their dead, how odd.

I don't think they do, I think they inter them in a crypt? or something, but now all those relatively recently dead Lannisters have gone up in flames, so poor old Tommen is to be cremated to match, and his ashes chucked over the ruins of the sept.

My take of the Sansa not smiling while Jon Snow is proclaimed KotN scene matches porpoises: "wait, why is LF still smirking..?"
posted by glitter at 9:04 PM on June 27, 2016 [5 favorites]


Sansa wasn't chanting "King of the North," while everyone else was. Even Lady Mormont who was smiling happily and joined. Well, Baelish wasn't either. When Sansa finds out he's not a true Stark, she might be more willing to listen to Baelish.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:07 PM on June 27, 2016


Isn't he a true Stark, though? Just not as closely related to Sansa as she thinks. I don't think Jon is going to stay in Winterfell for long, anyway. I find Sansa's motivations to be a little bit opaque just at the moment, but I don't think she's forgotten how badly LF served her by marrying her off to the Boltons.

(I always find LF's haircut super distracting, it keeps looking like a super short 80s style undercut to me.)
posted by glitter at 9:19 PM on June 27, 2016 [3 favorites]


Good point, he'd just be a cousin instead of a sibling. The North probably won't care if they don't care if he's a bastard. Sansa might though, since it wouldn't that technically put her in charge in Winterfell? A child of Ned Stark trumping a child of his sister?

Let Lady Mormont weigh in.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:06 AM on June 28, 2016


Oh my gosh, she's awesome!

HBO: Which scene was your favorite to shoot?

Bella Ramsey: I loved them all, as it was my first experience of filming. I loved Episode 10, but the room we were filming in was like an overheated sauna, so probably Episode 7 ["The Broken Man"]. Although, I also loved riding Iggy the horse, too.

HBO: What do you think of the costumes?

Bella Ramsey: They're amazing; I would wear Lyanna's costume every day. The bear around her neck just made it. I called him Boris.

HBO: What animal would be on your house banner?

Bella Ramsey: A tiger, or an elephant, or a monkey. Actually, a lion! I hate decisions!
posted by ChuraChura at 4:36 AM on June 28, 2016 [9 favorites]


That interview is so adorable.

The show has a lot of young actors, just occurred to me that they don't/can't watch the show.
posted by French Fry at 5:51 AM on June 28, 2016 [1 favorite]


The show has a lot of young actors, just occurred to me that they don't/can't watch the show.

If I had been one of Qyburn's stabby little birds, I'd have a clip of the Pycelle death scene on my phone ready to show every kid in the 1st grade.
posted by dis_integration at 6:22 AM on June 28, 2016 [12 favorites]


Well, that was a hell of a finale. One of the better ones in my opinion. Season 6 was fairly satisfying but like all things Game of Thrones, there were some things that I felt could have been improved upon and/or left out. Much of this season felt like a step backwards. That being said, I'm ultimately glad to see that the show is moving forward and that characters and arcs are converging. It's about damn time. If you need me, I'll be rewatching that finale for the 7th time.
posted by Fizz at 7:13 AM on June 28, 2016


At first I was a Frey
I was made a pie


...sorry.
posted by m'eixuga at 7:38 AM on June 28, 2016 [17 favorites]


It seems that Jon Snow would be in the same place in line for the title of Lord Stark either way. Ned as a father or Leyanna as a mother, he's an illegitimate half Stark. Convenient.

I thought the shot above the fleet was a great ending. It satisfyingly created anticipation for the next season. A welcome change from a groan inducing cliffhanger. The posing on the forecastle seemed unnecessary and detracted from the overall affect.
posted by bdc34 at 9:01 AM on June 28, 2016 [1 favorite]


Let's hope Dany doesn't do to this brother what she did to her other brother. OF course, Mr. Snow probably also wouldnt sell her to try to gain more power. I hope they don't leave Bran telling what happened to somewhere halfway through the season.
posted by LizBoBiz at 9:43 AM on June 28, 2016


OF course, Mr. Snow

Good point; the bannermen of the North referred to Jon specifically as Jon Snow - not Jon Stark - as kingindanorf.
posted by porpoise at 10:15 AM on June 28, 2016 [1 favorite]


Dany is Jon's aunt, not half-sister. Rhaegar was the son of the mad king, and Dany's eldest brother.
posted by sparklemotion at 10:29 AM on June 28, 2016 [2 favorites]


Thanks for clearing that up.
posted by LizBoBiz at 10:50 AM on June 28, 2016


The tension as Lancel crawls to the one candle seems even sillier second time around.

On rewatch here: yes. It's a storytelling device to build there's-a-bomb-under-the-table suspense, but it doesn't make much sense to the plot. Why lure only Lancel down to the wildfire stores? Why leave him wounded but alive and maybe able to thwart the sept-goes-boom scheme? The little stabby bird takes a good long look at him, knows he isn't dead.

But, but: it worked for me as suspenseful spectacle. Lancel acts as a point-of-view character for the audience to observe the fuse, and the High Sparrow's time, running out. Would it have been as dramatic to just hold on a shot of the candles buring down without the suspenseful crawl?
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 11:09 AM on June 28, 2016 [1 favorite]


Also: little-stabby-bird is a lot better at effective stabbing than the Waif was.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 11:10 AM on June 28, 2016 [7 favorites]


The season finale hit a series high viewership. Not many shows grow their audience every season for 6 straight seasons.
posted by Justinian at 11:53 AM on June 28, 2016 [4 favorites]


Needs more Hound, and more Brienne. Otherwise, a pretty good episode.
posted by rocketman at 1:26 PM on June 28, 2016 [1 favorite]


Would it have been as dramatic to just hold on a shot of the candles buring down without the suspenseful crawl?

Oh I'm sure something else could have been done and really, it only needed to work the once and that was effective enough for most people probably. Miguel Sapochnik isn't a hack director, after all! Plus the tension on Lancel probably was cheaper than other ideas, while keeping the audience focused.

I personally would have preferred more of a surprise, as the constant mentions of wildfire throughout the season guaranteed we were going to see an explosion. There was never a chance of Lancel putting out the candle, hence my frustration with him dragging his sorry ass towards it. The ink was already dry on that story.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 3:07 PM on June 28, 2016


Why lure only Lancel down to the wildfire stores?

It gives us, as viewers, some excuse to discover them just as they're about to go off, and it gives us an emotional connection with a human feeling just the right degree of futility and urgency and brutality. It also gives us the whole scheme in just a few visuals: the casks, the spill on the floor, the candles almost burned all the way down, the children running around, the readiness to stab those who would interfere, the silence. Lancel is the little key unlocking all that information for us.

If we'd just followed an anonymous little stabby bird, it would have seemed to indicate that person was somehow significant to us as viewers. Plus, it gave Lancel a little more character time and us the experience of seeing him come to that particular kind of end.
posted by amtho at 4:11 PM on June 28, 2016 [4 favorites]


I think they could have had it both ways, though. Lancel is lured into the catacombs. Lancel gets knifed, crawls across the stone floor to the candles, at great pain and sacrifice. Puts them out. But it's not dark. There's still a glow coming from around the bend. He crawls a few feet more. In agony, now. Blood mixing with the green wildfire in pools on the floor. A new color. He reaches the bend, spent.

Cut to Cersei, talking to herself in the tower. "Oh Lancel. Did you really think it would be so easy?"

Cut to Lancel, and there are a hundred more candles across two hundred feet of catacombs. Barely nubs, now. Flickering. A thousand more barrels line the walls.

Cersei in voiceover. "Did I teach you nothing?" A candle sputters above the wildfire.

*green fireworks*
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 4:23 PM on June 28, 2016 [4 favorites]


So I watched the KotN scene again, and I think it's slightly more troubling, Sansa wise, that when the assembled Lords and whatnot are getting into full swing about the Starks and KotN and suchlike, Sansa is smiling - until they actually say"KotN: Jon Snow". My interpretation of that was that she was expecting the Lords and whatnot to acclaim her King/Queen of the North, at which point I thought she would hand it along to Jon, all noble like. I don't think she wants to rule, but I think she was hoping for/expecting a bit more "so glad to have you back, Lady Stark" from the other Northish personages, instead of being largely ignored.
posted by glitter at 4:34 PM on June 28, 2016 [3 favorites]


Given Sansa's marriage to Ramsay Bolton, and possibility of pregnancy, I'm not as surprised that no one really knows what to do with her and finds it easier to cheer for Jon.
posted by TwoStride at 4:45 PM on June 28, 2016 [2 favorites]


Oh yes, that's right, Lyanna Mormont stirred her up a bit about if she was even a Stark at all, hmmmm.
posted by glitter at 4:50 PM on June 28, 2016 [2 favorites]


Sansa herself said it "Only a fool trusts Littlefinger." Yet she's still listening to him.

Given Sansa's marriage to Ramsay Bolton, and possibility of pregnancy, I'm not as surprised that no one really knows what to do with her and finds it easier to cheer for Jon.

Which is weird. They're quite willing to ignore that Jon is a bastard, but they're ignoring Sansa, who literally saved the day. Lady Mormont and Lord Glover both spoke harshly and dismissively to her, yet there's no apology for Sansa, yet along a statement that she freaking matters.

Is that on purpose or did the writers just leave it out because there was "too much" going on in the rest of the extended episode? Hard to say.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:50 PM on June 28, 2016 [2 favorites]


I think it's less the bastardy and more that the Boltons were eeeeevil. But as for why no one has had a substantive discussion about any of it... well, why have that when we could watch Lancel crawl in futility for several minutes before going boom.
posted by TwoStride at 4:52 PM on June 28, 2016






I'm going to disagree with lots of folks about the KotN scene. I think the reason Sansa gets all weird is that Littlefinger JUST TOLD HER that the one vision he works towards is himself on the iron throne. Once the chants start and she catches his eye, she realizes he is now going to stand in Jon's way.
posted by frecklefaerie at 6:47 PM on June 28, 2016 [11 favorites]


I haven't had time to rewatch some of the earlier episodes of the season like I had wanted to, but I think Cersei had a special wish to hurt Lancel in particular as well. (He was her cousin; he revealed that they had "unnatural relationships" and have the High Sparrow one of the excuses to imprison and try her; he's been up and front of every Sparrow action in the city and physically barred her way multiple times…) I think was stupid (and/or maybe too plot-convenient) for Lancel to follow that little bird into the catacombs with so little apparent reason and get himself stabbified. But I think it does make sense that Cersei wanted to hurt him and drive him to despair specifically, so the little bird was instructed to draw his attention and then ambush and stabbify, just so that he would die in terror and despair.
posted by seyirci at 6:53 PM on June 28, 2016 [3 favorites]


Maybe Baelish arranged her marriage to Bolton specifically to neutralize her as a possible Stark leader. She might be tainted, in the view of the other lords, by association.
posted by amtho at 6:58 PM on June 28, 2016 [2 favorites]


But I think it does make sense that Cersei wanted to hurt him and drive him to despair specifically, so the little bird was instructed to draw his attention and then ambush and stabbify, just so that he would die in terror and despair.

Mr. Palmcorder and I had similar thoughts. Our read was that Cersei had probably given specific instructions about making sure that Lancel didn't leave the Sept, and that the easiest, safest, and least obtrusive way for the Little Birds to do that was to distract him, lead him to a remote part of the Sept, and then quickly immobilize him. We figured that his winding up in the part of the Sept where the wildfire was being detonated was just for visual and narrative convenience-- and given that it was about 80% justified, I didn't mind all that much.
posted by palmcorder_yajna at 7:19 PM on June 28, 2016 [3 favorites]


Arya Stark totally pulling a "HERCULES MULLIGAN" surprise entrance, there.

A beggar, slaughtering Frey descendents
I take your sons, make a pie, cook'em up in it
Missed my brother's revolutionary covenant
But I'm working through my list and I am lovin’ it!
See, that’s what happens when you up against the Faceless Chick
You in the shit now, somebody gotta shovel it!
A Girl is Arya Stark, I need no introduction
When you knock me down I get the fuck back up again!

[ANGRY VIOLINS]
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 8:05 PM on June 28, 2016 [9 favorites]


Hmm I actually thought that Lancel's specific death was just an unfortunate accident (I mean, he was intended to die in the sept with everyone else--I don't think Cersei has special instructions for him). It's not like she could have known that the HS was going to ask him specifically to fetch her.

To me it read as though he just happened to see the little bird on his way to light the candles, found the behavior suspicious, and followed him. After all, he said "get the others" to his fellow FM brother, like he meant to gather a larger force before heading to the Red Keep to get Cersei (and presumably face Ser Gregor). The LB saw him follow and stabbed him to disable him from putting the candles out (kneeling once to check that he was out of commission) before skedaddling.

Granted, I thought it strained credulity a bit that anyone would be like HMM THAT URCHIN RAISES MY SUSPICIONS given how many of them are around and what was going on at the time, but really, it could have been any FM member; it was a plot device to get us-as-viewers down into crypt. And did double duty to draw us more deeply into the moment, as we'd care more about named character onscreen than some rando extra.
posted by alleycat01 at 9:04 PM on June 28, 2016 [1 favorite]


Cersei Lannister’s Crown Was Designed to Show How Lonely She Is

Vanity Fair on the coronation outfit

I'm always super-interested in how costume design is used to help tell stories on TV, especially in a series like this one where clothes get to speak a LOT and the designers have a great deal of freedom from both modern norms and historical specifics.

Going back in time a bit ... Here's a look at the Season 4 outfits -- I hadn't noticed the roses-and-thorns motif of Margaery's wedding dress until it was pointed out but that is KICK. ASS.

I could have sworn we had an FPP about the costume embroidery here, but I can't find it, so here's some of the embroidery from the embroiderer and here's a how-to, with cool time-lapse video. It's also worth looking through her "galleries" of different GoT outfits/scenes on the left and seeing some of the most elaborate pieces and what the thinking behind them was. And here's Buzzfeed focusing on some of the best bits of embroidery.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 9:22 PM on June 28, 2016 [9 favorites]


Cersei Lets It Go
posted by Jacqueline at 4:37 AM on June 29, 2016 [10 favorites]


HMM THAT URCHIN RAISES MY SUSPICIONS

He had a torch lit in midday on the street. I actually thought it was comically suspicious, like plan ruiningly suspicious until it started to look more like a trap. Which while still silly has a bit of internal logic.
posted by French Fry at 6:03 AM on June 29, 2016 [1 favorite]


Whoever was designing Tommen's outfits was hitting it out the park, they looked sharp and befitting of a King.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:13 AM on June 29, 2016 [1 favorite]


The Politics of Game of Thrones (Which is, what, the third or fourth in-mag GoT piece the New Yorker's published? How many did Mad Men get? Given the perceived skeptical distance toward genre the writers appear to be socially required to bring to the pieces, one wonders if there is some engagement-metrics editorial direction being pursued here.)
posted by mwhybark at 8:20 AM on June 29, 2016 [1 favorite]


He didn't have the torch when Lancel first saw him outside, just when they were in the crypts.
posted by alleycat01 at 10:41 AM on June 29, 2016




I wonder if they shouldn't have abandoned Martin's plotlines earlier than they did. Perhaps immediately following the Red Wedding. Then they wouldn't have felt stuck with having to place characters in positions where there wasn't enough time to get them out of those positions without a lot of teleportation and hand-waving.

tl;dr: I blame Martin. FOR EVERYTHIIIING
posted by Justinian at 1:03 PM on June 29, 2016 [2 favorites]


Yes, in retrospect, they should have abandoned a lot of Martin's plotlines sooner rather than spinning in place, waiting. But this was a unique case, so they can forgiven, maybe.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:50 PM on June 29, 2016


I'm just glad they had two candles. If they didn't have a backup that would have been a really dumb plot device.
posted by srboisvert at 3:20 PM on June 29, 2016 [1 favorite]




I'm just glad they had two candles. If they didn't have a backup that would have been a really dumb plot device.

At least they were far away, so he'd have to crawl, instead of right by the door.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:30 PM on June 29, 2016


The funny part is that wildfire isn't even ignited by flames. It's ignited by devout crawling across the floor.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 5:12 PM on June 29, 2016 [12 favorites]


I thought it was the terror sweat.
posted by tomboko at 5:38 PM on June 29, 2016


No no, the crazy eyes set it off.
posted by TwoStride at 6:14 PM on June 29, 2016 [1 favorite]


He comes down from Great Sept Baelor
On a dark, flat floor he slides
In a pool of glowing Wildfire
Terror sweats and crazy eyes
On a Westerosi night

Oh, they say he died one winter
When there came a spill below
They'd tapped a keg of Wildfire
In the flickering candle glow
And all the Sept did blow

He'd been crawling in Wildfire
He'd been crawling in Wildfire
He'd been crawling in Wildfire
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 6:43 PM on June 29, 2016 [5 favorites]


Maybe someone with a better memory can help me out: Why is Davos just now blowing up at Melissandre? Was he completely in the dark about Shireen until finding that toy? Seems implausible that he wouldn't have found out, but I can't remember where he was during the sacrifice. Or if he did already know, then why didn't he give her shit a long time ago; he seemed fine with her a few episodes back.?. I agree she's creepy, but her banishment seemed abrupt and hasty.
posted by p3t3 at 10:11 PM on June 29, 2016


Davos asked about Shireen before and was told she died, but not how it happened.
posted by andoatnp at 10:47 PM on June 29, 2016 [1 favorite]


Stannis sent him off the the Wall to ask them about something, more guys or food or something, which I think we think he did on purpose because he had an inkling that Melissandre was going to suggest burning Shireen. When Davos meets back up with Melissandre, he asks after Shireen and Selyse, and from memory Mel just shakes her head sadly, from which I suppose Davos assumes that she was killed in the fighting. It's not until he happens upon the charred stag he puts two and two together.
posted by glitter at 10:50 PM on June 29, 2016 [2 favorites]


Davos was asking Mellisandre about it at Castle Black but go interrupted by Brienne doing her badass "Yeah, I killed Stannis, any of you go a problem with that, you know where to find me, so any questions" thing. In short, Davos was distracted.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:58 AM on June 30, 2016 [3 favorites]


Sansa already told Jon earlier in another scene that she accepts him as a Stark. And since she also treats him as a big brother, I think she supports him through and through. She was smiling when the rallying began. To me, when her smile faltered as she saw Littlefinger, it was because she now knows his plan, and her family is not safe just yet.

Sansa is not just a Stark, she’s a Tully, and family is important. Also she worked so hard to convince Jon to retake Winterfell, I don’t believe she will leave it again for anything else, and anytime soon. So the concept of the Iron Throne does not appeal to her I would imagine, given all the shit she experienced in King’s Landing. She even had this realisation while she was by the heart tree, i.e. wanting something else when she was a kid when everything that’s important was in Winterfell.

Also I think Cersei had Lancel killed specifically to tie up loose ends. Jamie still doesn’t know that she slept with their cousin. Tyrion knows it though.

Another thing about Cerise’s costume: the androgynous look is a callback to all of her resentment against not being viewed as powerful or valuable enough because she’s a woman. Remember that she once told Sansa (during the Blackwater battle) that their father trained and relied on Jamie but not her. Tywin also made Tyrion the hand, and not her. And they also had an argument before when Tywin told her that he doesn’t trust her because she’s a woman, but that she thinks she’s so intelligent. Compare her costume during Blackwater (red dress with some metal corset with boobs) vs this one. The black fabric is eerily similar to what Tywin used to wear.
posted by pleasebekind at 3:13 AM on July 1, 2016 [4 favorites]


> But, but: it worked for me as suspenseful spectacle. Lancel acts as a point-of-view character for the audience to observe the fuse, and the High Sparrow's time, running out. Would it have been as dramatic to just hold on a shot of the candles buring down without the suspenseful crawl?

I actually think that it would have been just as dramatic.

That whole thing with Lancel -- him stubbornly continuing to follow the little bird through twists and turns despite the giant flashing neon sign saying "it's a trap!" was like something out of a schlocky horror movie. But the futile crawl toward the candles was even worse IMO, an unnecessary cheap padding-out of tension that the audience was perfectly capable of imagining without literally being dragged toward it, bleeding.
posted by desuetude at 7:21 AM on July 1, 2016 [5 favorites]


Can't remember where I read it, but even the director realized crawling towards the candle was a cliche, but felt it was good way of keeping all parts of the audience engaged in the scene.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:16 AM on July 1, 2016


Sparklemotion: The most egregious thing this episode was Varys being in Dany's fleet. It was unnecessary, except for the "epicness" of the seeing her at the helm with Team Dany surrounding her, but it would have been just as well for him to meet up with them after they land in Dorne next season.

This article has a theory based on sail insignia that the Varys scene is already in the harbor at Dorne.
posted by larrybob at 7:00 AM on July 2, 2016


It makes zero sense for Dany to go to Dorne at this point. She only needs one dragon to take King's landing, she has three. Stopping anywhere south of KL would just put her in the territory of an ally, which would serve little purpose when you have three dragons.

As it stands at the moment, Westeros is Dany's, with the only resistance coming from Cersei and possibly the Riverlands, which can easily be dealt with. Dany has alliances with the Iron Islands, Dorne and Highgarden, where they all pledge to her for essentially keeping control of their kingdoms, which is pretty much what the deal was before. All that should be settled pretty quickly, just in time to deal with the Night King and his merry band. Which fits with the show runners saying there's only about 13-15 hours of the show left.

Of course, all this assumes that once Dany has done what she's best, i.e. conquering, things will be just fine. The Iron Islands will totally be ok with giving up raiding. Dorne will be fine with just getting revenge. Baelish will tots be cool with serving Daenerys. House Lannister won't be feeling vengeful at all. Dany will be totally fine with just as Queen of the realm, while Tyrion handles the day to day running of the kingdom. The Iron Bank won't come calling for past due bills.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:03 AM on July 2, 2016 [1 favorite]


What's House Lannister got anymore? Unless there are some super competent-but-pushed-to-the-sidelines-by-Tywin cousins, they're pretty much toothless tigers, I think. No good allies, and out of gold. Maybe it's a race to see who wipes them out altogther, the enemies Cersei has been busily creating, or the Iron Bank.
posted by glitter at 4:19 PM on July 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


Late to the post with a couple observations regarding House Glover:

That was indeed Lord Percy.

...annd after much pondering, I believe I have decoded a Gurm joke. To wit, the Glovers spurned House Stark TNG this season, yah? Well, of course they did! The Boltons are proud flayers, roight, and known source of influence on GRRM Gene Wolfe happens to have written extensively from the POV of a fellow who has been carefully trained in the practice. Severian first appears as an apprentice torturer in the city of Nessus on world often thought to be a far-future Earth, called Urth in the series, "The Book of the New Sun".

In the opening from Severian relates his apprenticeship in the Matachin Tower, and spends a deal of time relating the use and practice of flaying with particular attention to a technique which results in the removal of the hand's skin. I believe he refers to it as "gloving".

In composing this I had occasion to review the Wikipedia plot summary of the "Shadow of the Torturer", and good heavens, Wolfe's influence is stronger than I had recognized. The black cloaks of the Night's Watch and the role of those folks in our tale here clearly have partial antecedents in this book.
posted by mwhybark at 5:28 PM on July 3, 2016




What's House Lannister got anymore?

Good question, but what does Westerosi as a whole have, anymore? The Night's Watch is decimated. The Stark-led armies are decimated. Cersei's resources are decimated. The Frey patriarch is dead, leading to a vacuum of power there. Soon, there will be nothing for Daenerys to conquer, but ash.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 11:32 PM on July 4, 2016


What's House Lannister got anymore?

A whole lot of wildfire and the will to use it. Does wildfire burn dragon flesh? I'd imagine so. It'll definitely burn ships and soldiers.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:59 AM on July 5, 2016


Upon rewatch:

As Walder Frey and Jaime are talking, Frey has some line about how "the Starks used to mock me and where are they now?" At that second, an out-of-focus and disguised Arya Stark is walking through the shot.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 5:05 PM on July 5, 2016 [9 favorites]


Good catch ricochet biscuit! I found images here, via this reddit thread.
posted by SpookyFish at 9:28 AM on July 6, 2016 [1 favorite]


Re: Varys as GOT GOAT

I feel like that theory isn't as ground breaking as the article made it sound.

Varys basically told Tyrion at the trial how much he admired him. And then Varys orchestrated Tryion's escape. I am also pretty sure that Varys made clear, during Tyrion's drunken stupor in Volantis, that they were going to meet up with Dany.

Tryion getting kidnapped by Jorah of all people was just convenient.

The only real question that I have is who sicced the wine assassin on her, if Varys has actually been on Team Targaryen the whole time?

But then again that all makes sense if Varys is really a merman.
posted by sparklemotion at 6:21 AM on July 7, 2016


Varys has been pretty clear since the aftermath of the Battle of Blackwater that he and Tyrion would meet again. So yeah, his performance at Tyrion's trial wasn't surprising.

I'm just curious what Varys hopes to get by having a Targaryen on the throne. He normally hates magic, but is ok with dragons. Does he believe that dragons enable the Targs to enforce a lasting peace?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:38 AM on July 7, 2016


What's magic got to do with dragons?
posted by komara at 8:56 AM on July 7, 2016


Maybe Varys' goal is less to get a Targaryen on the throne and more to get the Baratheons/Lannisters off of it?

I can also see Varys drawing a line between dragons and magic -- to us they are intertwined because they are fantastical elements -- but to him, the dragons may just be a simple tool of war like wildfire or valyrian steel.

It also seemed that a lot of Varys' hate for magic was wrapped up in his distate for charlatans who "claim" to be able to wield it. Now that he is getting more proof that some magic has real and predictable effects -- he might start to hate it less.
posted by sparklemotion at 8:59 AM on July 7, 2016 [1 favorite]


Naw, he explicitly tells us he heard the voice in the fire. He hates magic because it has been made by burning his blood, his pain, his innocence, not because it doesn't exist or isn't a real thing.

It's possible he doesn't have the sense of the emergent theory of Planetos magic that we do, where only life may pay for life and blood sacrifice in fire seems to be repaid in puissance, though, which could allow him to see dragons as outside magic.

The only other thing we have heard directly from him about his motivations is that he serves the realm and holds the interests of the smallfolk to heart. This is of course debatable, especially if he has been 100% Team Targ since day zero, as a Targaryen restoration requires a war. Perhaps he foresaw the Baratheon succession struggle and is aware of Winter's threat and wants a unified Westeros.
posted by mwhybark at 9:40 AM on July 7, 2016


Naw, he explicitly tells us he heard the voice in the fire.

I wonder if we'll here that voice or find out what was said. It's been mentioned several times.

As Varys, I was guessing he's Pro-Targ because they managed to keep relative peace and stability. Robert Barathenon reign was also peaceful, but he put the kingdom in debt and let situations build that caused his downfall.

Or maybe he heard something in the flames that made him Pro-Targaryen? The voice said or commanded something that put him on the path for bringing a Targ kingdom back.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 10:47 AM on July 7, 2016


Naw, he explicitly tells us he heard the voice in the fire. He hates magic because it has been made by burning his blood, his pain, his innocence, not because it doesn't exist or isn't a real thing.

David Blaine could make voices sound from a fire, but even given that that was "real" magic, Varys very well could have thought that the price paid (his manhood) was not worth the prize.

I wonder if we'll here that voice or find out what was said. It's been mentioned several times.

If, say, whatever the voice said to him was meaningless at the time, but something about Kinvara bringing it up gave it meaning, it would help to explain how she managed to render him speechless.
posted by sparklemotion at 11:40 AM on July 7, 2016 [1 favorite]


If, say, whatever the voice said to him was meaningless at the time, but something about Kinvara bringing it up gave it meaning, it would help to explain how she managed to render him speechless.

I think merely the fact that she knew about it and what is said would be enough to render anyone speechless. I'm disappointed that Tyrion didn't ask Varys about that, because in a world where he snorted at the idea of white walkers and now there's dragons, advisers to a queen should be curious about these matters.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:13 PM on July 7, 2016 [2 favorites]


How did Frey know to pick up that precise bit of crust to find a finger?
posted by biffa at 3:53 AM on July 11, 2016


It's like when a magician has you pick a specific card by subliminal suggestion. I guess they teach that in FacelessU.
posted by m'eixuga at 4:03 AM on July 11, 2016 [1 favorite]


Presumably with 20 fingers baked in, it wouldn't have taken him long to find the secret ingredient.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:05 AM on July 11, 2016 [1 favorite]


As Varys, I was guessing he's Pro-Targ because they managed to keep relative peace and stability.

However, Varys did seem to work pretty hard behind the scenes to get Jorah Mormont to assassinate Daenerys in the first season, or at least have Jorah be adequately placed to arrange that murder by spying on her comings and goings, in exchange for a royal pardon. I wonder what lead Varys to change his mind?
posted by a lungful of dragon at 1:26 PM on July 12, 2016




R + L = J | Departure
posted by homunculus at 7:55 PM on July 13, 2016 [5 favorites]


That's a really well done video!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 3:01 AM on July 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


Goddamn that's a good fan edit!
posted by Iteki at 4:55 AM on July 14, 2016


Huh, until that fan edit, I hadn't noticed that Jon Snow's eyes changed color as he died.
posted by jamaro at 1:18 PM on July 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


You mean at 2:12? I don't think they do, it just looks like strong crosslighting illuminating Kit's irises.

What color are Targ irises supposed to be, anyway? Violet or something, yes?
posted by mwhybark at 2:07 PM on July 14, 2016




So, hey, I just finished binge-watching the DVDs and can now stop avoiding all the talk about Season 6! Yay! Some things I thought were spoiled totally weren't, which was a nice surprise.

Best season ever! Refreshing lack of wheel-spinning. All plots actually moving forward for a change.

I did notice the teleporting Varys and was very confused by it. Not sure I fully buy the "timelines jumping around" explanation; isn't the vast bulk of that just Bran's maple syrup-induced diabetic coma fantasies? Unless I missed something, this definitely wasn't that. I'll go back and watch it (eventually... so exhausted), but on the first time through my assumption is that someone just plum fucked up.

And I did find the crawl to KABOOM a bit iffy, what with a big muscly hunk getting paralysed from the waist down by a single stab from a tiny little kid with a small knife. Ehhhhhh... Could have used a few more pokes to suspend my disbelief a bit better. I didn't mind the cheesy James Bondness of the candles, though; the cutaways to upstairs sufficiently mitigated that IMO.

So, anyway. It's hilarious that nearly every single kid cast for this show has sprouted almost a full yard taller than all the adults. What are the odds?
posted by Sys Rq at 7:06 PM on November 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


I can only imagine how much fun binge-first-watching this season must have been. Quite the rollercoaster.

Re:timelines: I think that Varys' timeline is internally consistent, but we weren't given sufficient context from the other timelines to judge the passage of time. Which would be fine in a lesser show based in a world that has not been so thoroughly analyzed, but in this show it seems like something went wrong.
posted by sparklemotion at 12:52 PM on November 23, 2016


Woah, Varys is a time traveller? That explains everything.
posted by RobotHero at 2:34 PM on November 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


I can only imagine how much fun binge-first-watching this season must have been.

Very! But now I'm gonna have to do the whole thing all over again, reading the FanFare threads in between to catch anything I might've missed.
posted by Sys Rq at 3:30 PM on November 23, 2016 [1 favorite]


HBO is playing a GOT marathon of the whole series this week.
posted by homunculus at 11:57 AM on December 26, 2016 [3 favorites]


Just binged it all in the past few weeks after not watching any of it before. The legal thriller piano music in the finale was jarringly awful, though. Also, Tyrion and Danerys need to wed.
posted by Burhanistan at 11:42 PM on January 5


« Older Game of Thrones: The Winds of ...   |  Movie: Rififi... Newer »

You are not logged in, either login or create an account to post comments