Doctor Who: Twice Upon a Time

December 25, 2017 10:37 AM - Season 10, Episode 13

Two Doctors stranded in a forbidding snowscape, refusing to face regeneration.

Two Doctors stranded in a forbidding snowscape, refusing to face regeneration. A British army captain, seemingly destined to die in the First World War but taken from the trenches to play his part in the Doctor's story. In the final chapter of the Twelfth Doctor's epic adventure, he must face his past to decide his future. Along the way he realises the resilience of humanity, discovering hope in his darkest frozen moment. It is the end of an era, but the Doctor's journey is only just beginning.

BBC

posted by fearfulsymmetry (77 comments total)

To quote a prior regeneration: "Everybody lives, just this once, everybody lives!"

It was fun and sappy and we got to see Bill again. Good stuff.

(But I do wish Clara would stay gone. I just cannot with that character. )
posted by jojo and the benjamins at 1:13 PM on December 25, 2017 [7 favorites]

Jodie Whittaker: regenerating as a woman – the new Doctor Who
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 1:36 PM on December 25, 2017 [1 favorite]

The Tardis has a drinks cabinet. Excellent.
posted by Devonian at 2:52 PM on December 25, 2017 [4 favorites]

Totally Hitler in the shell crater
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 3:07 PM on December 25, 2017 [8 favorites]

It was nice to see Clara again. She bore a lot of bad writing as yet another mystery girl, but once they were past that she made an excellent companion. Though I wonder what scheduling problems had her be a green screen moment while the other companions got to cuddle.
posted by Gary at 3:19 PM on December 25, 2017 [3 favorites]

I thought this was a pretty strong Christmas episode, even if I like them a bit more Christmas-y. Nice use of a historical event to bring in the Christmas element though. The last testimony and battlefield worked well with the Doctor heading towards regeneration. I could have done without Clara and Nardole popping in, but I suspect we'll see them again. Very funny episode, but still poignant. I really enjoyed it.
posted by cfoxhi at 3:57 PM on December 25, 2017 [5 favorites]

Eee I thought that was lovely. The idea of Testimony, the Armistice reference and the nod to Lethbridge-Stewart, the bit about children recognising the Doctors name but no one else. And Whittaker just felt right.
posted by threetwentytwo at 4:32 PM on December 25, 2017 [3 favorites]

I liked the Doctor quoting Bertrand Russell in his final speech.
(Mainly about the pears)

But I too just cannot without Clara.
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 4:37 PM on December 25, 2017 [3 favorites]

Though I wonder what scheduling problems had her be a green screen moment while the other companions got to cuddle.

Victoria had a two hour special also on tonight, so JLCs having a busy Christmas.
posted by threetwentytwo at 4:58 PM on December 25, 2017 [1 favorite]

I didn't enjoy that one too much, but I'm happy to see Jodie Whittaker seems to be keeping her accent for the role ... lots of planets have a West Riding you know.
posted by sobarel at 6:03 PM on December 25, 2017 [5 favorites]

I liked this Xmas special quite a lot. The specials tend to be hit or miss for me, and this one was a hit. One question...What did Whittaker say just before she was sucked from the TARDIS?
posted by Thorzdad at 8:09 PM on December 25, 2017

"As a Dalek, you are LinkedIn to the hive mind. All Daleks are. Biggest database I know."
Finally I think I understand their sour attitude.
posted by joeyh at 8:16 PM on December 25, 2017 [16 favorites]

I'D — LIKE — TO — ADD — YOU — TO — MY — PROFESSIONAL — NETWORK — ON — LINKEDIN
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 8:26 PM on December 25, 2017 [51 favorites]

I loved it. I get so sentimental with every Doctor's end and this one was no different. As a Christmas special it wasn't my favorite but I liked that they tied it to the armistice.

I never really got the Clara hate, it's unfortunate they couldn't get her for this but I understand the difficulties of the industry, but it was still really nice to include her and to give the Doctor back the memories of her.
posted by numaner at 8:30 PM on December 25, 2017 [2 favorites]

Jodie Whittaker and I have the exact same hair cut and color, right down to the root line, so I'm pretty stoked about that. When I went to RI Comic Con last month I threw on a grey hoodie and my 4th Doctor hand knitted scarf and a 22 year old pair old of green Docs with silver laces and went as "13 rummaging through the TARDIS wardrobe."

Anyways, I liked it. But then, I preferred Moffat's problematic writing of women over RTD's problematic writing of women.
posted by Ruki at 8:37 PM on December 25, 2017 [5 favorites]

What did Whittaker say just before she was sucked from the TARDIS?

'Oh, brilliant!'

Jodie is from Skelmanthorpe
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 2:07 AM on December 26, 2017 [2 favorites]

As I mentioned earlier, the shell crater encounter thing happened to an ancestor of mine. They worked it out despite language difficulties.

I didn't mind this although it dragged a little. When my 10YO says impatiently "We get, they were sexist when you were the Doctor" it's probably a sign that it's being laid on a bit thick. A shame we only got Bill for a season - she's been one of the better companions.
posted by hawthorne at 2:26 AM on December 26, 2017 [7 favorites]

a sign that it's being laid on a bit thick

Elderly man from the 1960s says three or four sexist things over the course of an hour? Laid it on a bit too thin, I'd say.

I thought making the Doctor's own past sexism a feature of the story was a clever way to lead up to this particular regeneration. And the regeneration itself was fab - we were due another pull-out-the-stops energy-blast. Great cliffhanger. Can't wait to see Whittaker in action.
posted by rory at 5:46 AM on December 26, 2017 [6 favorites]

I am so glad the Moffet run has ended. I went into this episode in a pretty 'bah, humbug' mood, and the running joke of 'look at how sexist the First Doctor was' didn't do a thing to lift me out of it. Also, I didn't realize that the 2-hour running time included a half-hour behind-the-scenes thing, so when the regeneration happened I got very nervous that I was going to have to suffer through seeing the 14th Doctor through the Moffet perception lens, but thankfully it was brief. (It was still there though - why did she have to regenerate with mascara on? It's one thing if the new Doctor starts wearing make-up at part of the whole 'picking a new uniform' montage in the new season, but it's so tiresomely gendered for her to magically spring forth into existence in full make-up. I don't have a lot of hope it won't be a recurring issue in the new series, since I guess she'll have magically hairless legs since they've chosen a costume that leaves her legs uncovered, sigh.)
posted by oh yeah! at 5:48 AM on December 26, 2017 [10 favorites]

Elderly man from the 1960s says three or four sexist things over the course of an hour? Laid it on a bit too thin, I'd say.

But he's not an elderly man from the 1960s, he's a Timelord from who-knows-when originally written in the 1960s. Moffet could have left past sexism in the past if he wanted to, but chose to make a running joke of it as if to show off how less sexist his 13th Doctor is, but considering all of the misogynistic jokes he's made in the show itself and in his promotional interviews, it just grated.
posted by oh yeah! at 6:17 AM on December 26, 2017 [4 favorites]

So they make the Doctor a woman and the first thing she does is crash the car?
posted by Segundus at 6:32 AM on December 26, 2017 [1 favorite]

So they make the Doctor a woman and the first thing she does is crash the car?

Daily Mail straight in there (DM Reporter on twitter)

(10, 11, 12 all crashed the tardis on regen... it's practically a tradition)
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 6:42 AM on December 26, 2017 [3 favorites]

Yes, you would think the Doctor would remember to park somewhere safe when about to regenerate.

(Also, this whole 'regeneration energy makes the Tardis go explodey' thing is very Nu Who; the 1st, 5th and 6th Doctors all regenerated in the Tardis without any fuss (as in fact did the 9th).
posted by Major Clanger at 6:51 AM on December 26, 2017 [1 favorite]

I guessed the family name of the Captain about fifteen minutes in; it seemed odd that he didn't introduce himself or get asked his name, and this became so forced it was clear that his identity must be a plot point. I wondered if the denouement was going to be that the Doctor(s) had to save Archibald Lethbridge-Stewart in order to ensure that Alistair Lethbridge-Stewart would be born, although Archibald mentions that he already has sons. (From what we saw he might of course be a great-uncle, although Mark Gatiss has now confirmed that Archibald is The Brigadier's paternal grandfather.)

Also, what happened to Ben and Polly? They were seemingly on board the First Doctor's Tardis throughout, but other than at the very start we never see them again.

(One nice touch: the in-show acknowledgement that David Bradley does not look exactly like William Hartnell.)
posted by Major Clanger at 7:09 AM on December 26, 2017

So, I'm a little muddled over Testimony taking Lethbridge-Stewart at the moment of his death (to harvest his memories) creating an error in the timestream. Did they, or did they not, actually take him at the moment of his death? Or, did they mistakenly take him at the wrong time, creating the timestream error (which seems a bit implausible for such an advanced society)?

And, if they took him at the correct moment, wouldn't returning him to a point in time where he doesn't die also create a timestream error?

I know...it's all water under the bridge and of no consequence, but it's a plot point that sort of didn't ring true to me. I must have missed some hand-wavey, timey-wimey dismissal of any problems.
posted by Thorzdad at 8:19 AM on December 26, 2017

So, I'm a little muddled over Testimony taking Lethbridge-Stewart at the moment of his death (to harvest his memories) creating an error in the timestream.

No, the two doctors meeting caused the timestream error. Testimony tried to return Lethbridge-Stewart to the crater, but instead he got send to the south pole.

Returning him later so he doesn't die doesn't cause a error because... Doctor Who.
posted by Pendragon at 9:34 AM on December 26, 2017 [1 favorite]

Returning him later so he doesn't die doesn't cause a error because... Doctor Who.

First Doctor in 1964: But you can't rewrite history! Not one line!

Basically every Doctor ever since: Eh?

I kinda loved this even though every complaint I've read about (there's not really a plot, great to see Bill again but she's kind of wasted) is something I can basically agree with . But as soon as they did the "Previously on Doctor Who" and showed stuff from "The Tenth Planet", I knew it was going to be something for me.

And even though it was made with a modern budget (and a modern filming schedule), I loved that at least 75% of it felt like an early First Doctor episode, just a few people standing around on a few sets talking.

And even though I was sort of 'meh' about the Doctor not wanting to regenerate again (I found Tennant's regeneration fitting for his Doctor but only because I see the things about him that annoy me a way of keeping a character I've loved forever interesting), there's a huge difference between "I don't want to regenerate because I want to stay who I am" and "I don't want to regenerate because I just want to die already" so it wasn't nearly the retread I thought it was going to be.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 10:17 AM on December 26, 2017 [2 favorites]

The thing about the mascara was funny - I was hoping that she'd be without makeup too. But then I was like no, we can't have nice things around how female characters are portrayed especially on this show. And voila.
posted by bleep at 12:09 PM on December 26, 2017

I'd like to think to think they thought about the "eye makeup or not" aspect of the regeneration, and went with obvious eye makeup as a sort of "Just in case you've been living off-world for the past umpteen months, here's a normative image to let you know that, yes, the Doctor is a woman now" message, because, yeah, no makeup would have been much more logical.
posted by Thorzdad at 12:58 PM on December 26, 2017

Because she wouldn't look like a woman without eye makeup? That's such a bizarre thought that I can't tell if it's giving them too much credit or not enough credit.
posted by bleep at 1:02 PM on December 26, 2017

It's clearly cannon that female Time Lords have mascara/other make-up* after regeneration.

*Probably isn't even make-up at all but chameleon-like facial colouring they can alter at will.
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 1:08 PM on December 26, 2017 [3 favorites]

since I guess she'll have magically hairless legs since they've chosen a costume that leaves her legs uncovered, sigh

While it is unusual for the doctor to show any leg at all, her costume show's about two inches of leg and this complaint comes off like people fainting at the sign of an ankle in the late 1800s.

As for eye make-up? Sure, I guess it might have been cooler without. But Whittaker is going to have enough problems fighting off trolls, that I wish we didn't have to go down this path already.
posted by crossoverman at 3:30 PM on December 26, 2017 [3 favorites]

The doctor says : LAUGH hard, run fast, be kind.
But i missheard it as LOVE hard, run fast, be kind.
I like my version better. It is also more Capaldi.
posted by thegirlwiththehat at 4:13 PM on December 26, 2017 [2 favorites]

While it is unusual for the doctor to show any leg at all, her costume show's about two inches of leg and this complaint comes off like people fainting at the sign of an ankle in the late 1800s.

As by your profile and username you are not a woman, maybe you are not aware of the enormous amount of social pressure women are under not to display body hair, but, we are. My dislike of the impending new costume's trouser length is that any woman cosplaying as the 14th Doctor will have to go through the decision tree of deciding to shave/not to shave/go for an off-canon trouser length, which was never an issue with cosplaying as any other incarnation of the Doctor. It irks me as being needlessly gendered.

And I'm not meaning any of this as an attack on Whittaker. As recent events have shown, the film industry is rife with so much outright assault and harassment of actresses, many of them are probably inured to a lot of the more minor nonsense like always being perfectly made up regardless of how bedraggled your characters meant to be. It's just disappointing to me that everybody in the production of this episode, or at least everyone with decision-making power, was fine with an HD close-up of mascara.
posted by oh yeah! at 4:26 PM on December 26, 2017 [4 favorites]

Moffat has nothing to do with the mascara choice. His role ended the moment Capaldi started regenerating. Whittaker’s scene was written by Chris Chibnall and was filmed weeks later.
posted by plastic_animals at 6:18 PM on December 26, 2017 [5 favorites]

Tardis threw out The Doctor. Should be an interesting landing.
posted by ZeusHumms at 8:24 PM on December 26, 2017

I’m going to guess that the cos-players’ wish to be able to role-play the Doctor without deciding whether to shave their calves was probably not high on the priority list for deciding on the costume for the new Doctor. I doubt it was even considered: a few cos-players don’t really register against the weight of the rest of the intended audience.

That doesn’t make it an illegitimate or unreasonable complaint for those affected.

I half watched this episode on Christmas Day. Bit too on the nose sometimes (The old doctor was sexist! News at 11!) but had some good parts.
posted by pharm at 3:34 AM on December 27, 2017

Pharm, you are wrong about costume, at least in relation to Capaldi. He spoke in interviews at length about how he chose his incarnations clothes so that it would easy for anyone who wanted to to dress up as the Doctor to do so. Cosplay was forefront in his mind.

I have seen 13th's outfit, but not read/heard anything about how the look was constructed. I disliked it at first, but suspect it will grow on me.
posted by Faintdreams at 6:13 AM on December 27, 2017 [2 favorites]

I thought it was pretty thin and required the Doctor to run around with the idiot ball an awful lot. LOOK SOMETHING NEW MUST BE EEEEEVIIIILLLLLL *rush off to be stupid*

*sigh*
posted by Kyol at 10:51 AM on December 27, 2017 [3 favorites]

I have seen 13th's outfit, but not read/heard anything about how the look was constructed. I disliked it at first, but suspect it will grow on me.

Fashion wise, I hate it. Which is why I love it as 13th outfit. I had this terrible fear that they were going to stick her in heels. You can't run in heels! Instead, you have something that clearly looks like someone who spent over 2000 years dressing a male body suddenly trying to dress a female body. It's off, and not in a lapel celery or an explosion in a rainbow factory kind of way. By which I mean, it's not eccentric, it shows a sort of clueless effort. And that feels right me to me, because it's not like 13 is going to regenerate with full knowledge of female fashion or maybe not even with the personality to care about it.
posted by Ruki at 5:01 PM on December 27, 2017 [2 favorites]

I've been rewatching season 6 where Amelia is a flesh replacement. They have several conversations about memory + consciousness = living but in this episode the Doctor didn't seem to hold those qualities as equivalent to being alive.
posted by toomanycurls at 6:04 PM on December 27, 2017 [1 favorite]

Glad to know that there are glass computer angels that freeze time at the moment of regeneration and put mascara on female timelords.
posted by Catblack at 6:51 PM on December 27, 2017 [1 favorite]

Since I'm male I'll stay out of the mascara/showing ankle argument but I thought the released official outfit she'll have looked pretty great, it's more of a throwback than contemporary, and it seems functional for all the running the Doctor always does.
posted by numaner at 7:20 PM on December 27, 2017

Yeah I'm really just relieved there are no heels. I would have preferred ass-kicking boots, but I'll take what I can get.

Fun fact: this is the first episode I've watched since I got bored back in the Amy/ Rory days. My son wanted me to watch with him, but i told him not until we got a female Doctor, thinking I would be a grandma by then. Welp. I am probably not going to bother catching up because neither plot, character, nor reality itself is treated with any real consistency on this show so why bother. I hope having women writers on staff will mean better writing/characters for women, at least. I'm still sad about Donna.
posted by emjaybee at 9:12 PM on December 27, 2017

Now that I have had time to Have Thoughts: Whittaker pushes a tiny orange button; sparks fly and screen reads SYSTEMS CRISIS MULTIPLE OPERATIONS FAILURES and then there is spinning and doors flying open and falling out, and uh, that seems kinda stupid.

I haven't seen the ones where other Doctors "immediately crash the Tardis" is it always this random and goofy?
posted by emjaybee at 8:23 AM on December 28, 2017

The Doctor being manic and irrational in the first few moments of their regeneration is pretty much standard for New Who. The transition from Ten to Eleven pretty much destroyed the Tardis (which of course is just a pretext for designing a new set), and when Eleven regenerated into Twelve he immediately shouted out that he didn't like the color of his kidneys then managed to go back in time to be swallowed by a dinosaur only to wind up by the Thames in Victorian London.
posted by plastic_animals at 9:06 AM on December 28, 2017 [6 favorites]

You'd think that he'd park somewhere safe and then regenerate if he has any warning whatsoever (which Twelve clearly did). I suppose I could headcanon that the regens work better (better than what?) if the Tardis is as far away as possible from a planet...? No, not really feeling it. I think they just do it because it's fun to film chaos.
posted by Mogur at 10:24 AM on December 28, 2017 [3 favorites]

I think they just do it because it's fun to film chaos.

They do seem to love that.
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:44 AM on December 28, 2017 [1 favorite]

Well, and was the cloister bell going off for the regeneration, or the damage the regeneration was going to do to the tardis, or for some as yet unknown external factor?

When's the next season start, 2019, 2020, something like that?
posted by Kyol at 10:53 AM on December 28, 2017

My head canon is that the doctor doesn't remember that the TARDIS explodes every time bc so much happens in between.
My other head canon is that the TARDIS isn't really "exploding" as in unable to handle it physically- but just finds the regeneration scary and upsetting and is unable to handle it emotionally. That's why it dumped her out as soon as she pressed a button. I also cling to the belief that the doctor is never steering the ship just touching the TARDIS in a pleasant way to get it to cooperate.
posted by bleep at 11:08 AM on December 28, 2017 [7 favorites]

Next season will air beginning in fall 2018. Ten hour-long episodes (plus, presumably, a Christmas special) vs. the more recent pattern of twelve 45-minute episodes + special. Filming began about a month ago.

As a side note, when the BBC releases publicity stills, like the thirteenth Doctor's outfit, that is often them trying to get out in front of rumors and snapshots of outdoor filming scenes.
posted by plastic_animals at 11:24 AM on December 28, 2017

Getting back to this episode... It was only one quick, easily missable, line but I loved the First Doctor's astonishment that Twelve was able to pilot the TARDIS to exactly where he wanted it to go.
posted by plastic_animals at 11:28 AM on December 28, 2017 [6 favorites]

Next season will air beginning in fall 2018. Ten hour-long episodes (plus, presumably, a Christmas special) vs. the more recent pattern of twelve 45-minute episodes + special.

Hmmmm...That portends either the show running overtime each week here in the US, or the show being edited down to fit US broadcast parameters (i.e. commercial breaks)
posted by Thorzdad at 1:49 PM on December 28, 2017

I have noticed in the past that BBC America does slice down older episodes to fit into the hour w/commercials although I think in this past season or two they just let them run over. Amazon always shows the full episodes which show all those plot-irrelevant but sweet little character moments.
posted by bleep at 1:53 PM on December 28, 2017

I enjoyed this quite a bit. I loved the black and white original footage blending into the modern footage and vice versa.

IMHO, David Bradley plays William Hartnell better than William Hartnell does. I also liked the discussion with Bill about why he stole the Tardis in the first place.
posted by wittgenstein at 4:39 PM on December 28, 2017 [4 favorites]

Here's a sweet BBC story about Capaldi being a class act Doctor Who: Peter Capaldi reassures fan over regeneration.
posted by plastic_animals at 5:59 PM on December 28, 2017 [5 favorites]

I really grew to love Capaldi's Doctor, but while this special was good this regeneration affected me less emotionally than any of the others since the series revived. Part of that was because, as others have said, the Doctor just wanting to die was no fun... and he seemed to kind of change his mind on a whim. His speech seemed kind of long and almost perfunctory, like he was doing his own Greatest Hits of inspirational speeches. When the other Doctors died, it really felt like a MOMENT. With this one I didn't shed a tear, or even come close.

Like the 10 year old cited above, I thought the sexist comments by the first Doctor were a little overdone. Admittedly I haven't watched that Doctor's entire run, but they were making sexism seem like his defining personality trait and I really doubt it was. I would have liked Capaldi's Doctor to say something that would suggest regenerating into a woman was a choice he was making. When he was talking about wanting to die, I thought we'd get some line about, "I'm tired of life, as this man... So, let's try something new." Maybe we'll get something like that next season.

So, the Doctor regenerates into a woman, and misogynist fans are angry because of course they are, and feminist fans are angry because she appears to be wearing a bit of makeup. Her first starring episode won't air for months and months, and people are arguing about the hemming of her pants. God, this is going to be nuts. The day she changes her hairstyle, the Internet will explode.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 2:57 AM on December 29, 2017 [9 favorites]

I don't follow the fandom (and this is why) but I wouldn't say I'm angry about the makeup or the pants. More like :|
posted by bleep at 6:54 AM on December 29, 2017

Here's a sweet BBC story about Capaldi being a class act Doctor Who: Peter Capaldi reassures fan over regeneration.

I want to have children just for this reason basically
posted by numaner at 10:23 AM on December 29, 2017 [2 favorites]

Well, and was the cloister bell going off for the regeneration, or the damage the regeneration was going to do to the tardis, or for some as yet unknown external factor?

Mostly the second reason, as it often rings when the existence of the Tardis is threatened.
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:36 AM on December 29, 2017

Hey ho here we go again. I haven't watched a full series of Doctor Who since 2015 or so (prior to that.... well, I have a Doctor Who related tattoo if that's an indication of my previous level of fandom).

Husband and I caught up on this last series because I knew the regen was approaching and I adore Peter Capaldi. I liked Bill and Moffat's writing didn't actually enrage me like it had a history of doing previously. Also I knew OG Cybermen were coming and they are the BEST Cybermen of all the Cybermen, so I had to dive in.

But I've been so disconnected from the show lately that I didn't get much in the way of feels. The dustiest it got in here was when they used the Tenth Doctor regeneration episode music (it's also in Waters of Mars, and yes I am a massive nerd) for the First Doctor's regeneration. And the Christmas Truce. The rest of the plot was nearly non-existent and I felt Twelve's pre-regen speech went on far too long, even though I appreciated the sentiment. Like, I get it dude. Be kind. Noted. But I imagine if I was a super Twelve fan that speech would have given me time to prepare myself for the inevitable. I am nothing but sympathetic towards regeneration of one's favorite Doctor feels.

David Bradley as One is a treasure, though.

I also noticed the mascara. I don't wear make-up and I notice it all the time on actresses who otherwise should probably not be wearing make-up. I wasn't really surprised. This show is still run by dudes.

Roll on Fall 2018 I guess. Let's see if Chibbers can bring more Broadchurch and less Cyberwoman.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:10 PM on December 29, 2017 [3 favorites]

Maybe Whitaker has said something about how she would've preferred to not wear makeup. But I haven't heard anything like that, and I don't like how a lot of fans are making this assumption that the only reason the actor (and character) would be wearing makeup is because those lousy men-folk insisted on it. Maybe the actor didn't want to go on TV without makeup. That'd be her choice, and that'd be fine. You can't just assume that somebody wearing makeup is a helpless tool of the patriarchy. Feminism isn't so black and white.

Maybe Time Lords and Ladies just regenerate with their "makeup" baked in. (So maybe Anthony Ainley's version of The Master wasn't really rocking the guyliner, but that was just his face.) You don't know. If the female Doctor is super butch, super femme or somewhere in between, it's fine. The more I hear feminist fans complaining about the new Doctor's look, the more I want to shake them and say, You got a female Doctor. Please try to enjoy the moment, before you start looking for things to be outraged about.

If you want an empowered woman, I strongly suspect the Doctor won't disappoint you.

(I should add that I don't mean all this as an attack on any one commenter. It's more my overall response to arguments I've been seeing a LOT in the last few days.)
posted by Ursula Hitler at 9:45 PM on December 29, 2017 [4 favorites]

People don't look for things to be outraged about, people get outraged by things.
posted by oh yeah! at 8:21 AM on December 30, 2017 [1 favorite]

My life got a lot better as soon as I took steps to not see any fandoms in my various information streams.
posted by bleep at 10:20 AM on December 30, 2017

Well, if people are upset about the pant hem length of a character who hasn't had her first starring episode yet, I think they may be somewhat overlooking the true significance of the first female Doctor and focusing on some comparatively minor details. Bear in mind that it's not rare for the Doctor's costume to evolve during an incarnation too.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 1:24 PM on December 30, 2017 [1 favorite]

I think people are just looking for a sign that they aren't gonna fuck this up. It's very likely that they are gonna fuck it up and it's hard to sit with that information.
posted by bleep at 2:12 PM on December 30, 2017

It's very likely that they are gonna fuck it up and it's hard to sit with that information.

In other words... people are looking for things to be outraged about?

I'm sorry if I sound dismissive, but this is a side of fandom I do get impatient with. Fans are so ready to see the very worst in everything, to find things to make them angry. A lot of people were crying out for a female Doctor, and now they have one and before she's even properly made her debut they're mad about stuff that frankly strikes me as pretty superficial. (It'd kind of have to be superficial, since we've only seen her in one quick scene and she's literally only had one word of dialogue so far.) I'm just saying, wait and see. Try to assume these people will be doing their best to give us a good show. The first female Doctor is a historic pop culture moment, and let's maybe not ruin it by analyzing her fashion choices to death.

(Of course, this is assuming it's the first time the Doctor's been female, which they've been pretty cagey about. They've dropped plenty of hints he's been female, but they've also stuck pretty firmly to the idea that he only has so many regenerations and we've seen them all. Now that the Doctor is female, I imagine they'll kind of have to stop playing coy about whether he's ever been a she before. What would be the point, really?)
posted by Ursula Hitler at 4:50 PM on December 30, 2017 [8 favorites]

People don't look for things to be outraged about, people get outraged by things.

Actually, I think precisely the opposite is true. For a noticeable number of people combing a film or tv show for things to call out is how they watch. I'm finding fandom more and more negative, whiney and tedious. Since I, myself, am negative, whiney and tedious enough to be going on with, I don't need any extra.
posted by Grangousier at 6:23 PM on December 30, 2017 [4 favorites]

OK so I finally watched it. Most of my complaints are already here including that to me this regen felt empty. I ugly cried when Matt regened into Capaldi. Despite me really liking Capaldi, the Doctor wanting to die for an hour is not something I needed to watch especially since I knew it was empty already. We know who the next doctor is so we know he's going to regen. This might be a more compelling ep if we didn't KNOW the doctor would go on, but since we do, it's pretty annoying.

What bothered me the most, though, was how long they put off showing Whitaker's face. I mean, you had to in a serious media blackout not to know who the next Doctor would be so pretending there is any suspense is just silly.
posted by miss-lapin at 3:48 PM on January 1, 2018

Also, if anybody wants to cosplay as the female Doctor without shaving their legs, they can wear opaque tights that match their skin tone. Ancient drag queen secret.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 2:46 PM on January 4, 2018 [4 favorites]

Why’d they have to go and show her wedding ring falling off, that’s what I want to know if we’re grumbling about those couple last seconds of directorial choices.
posted by deludingmyself at 7:38 AM on January 7, 2018 [2 favorites]

I think that was just supposed to be a cute, shocking visual to show he was getting smaller as he became her. Was it a wedding ring? I just assumed he was wearing rings as a bit of flair, but if it was his wedding ring for River the symbolism there seems a little iffy. It could be seen as, "Now that he's a she, the marriage is over," but I'm guessing nobody was thinking of that interpretation.

As done-done as River's story seems, it's kind of too bad she probably won't return for the Whitaker era. It'd be interesting to see if they kept up their flirty dynamic. I may be wrong, but I suspect this Doctor will be one of the asexual ones. I say that only because they're already facing so much controversy over a female Doctor and having her flirt with men or women is sure to bring them even more grief. But I guess it all depends on how edgy the new showrunners are willing to go, and if they prefer the old school "What is this thing called sex" Doctor or the Davies-era "Let's swoon over each other a lot but never quite admit how we feel" Doctor.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 6:47 PM on January 7, 2018 [2 favorites]

The ring was the Doctor’s signet ring, not his wedding ring. The first and seventh Doctors wore one as well. Capaldi didn’t want to take his wedding ring off during filming so they made an extra ring with a stone to fit over his. I took the ring falling off to be the show’s nod that Capaldi was no longer playing the Doctor.
posted by plastic_animals at 7:46 PM on January 7, 2018 [6 favorites]

Thanks for the info, that's interesting. So I suppose the symbolism was that the Doctor was shedding an aspect of the first Doctor, who'd figured so prominently in that episode.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 8:11 PM on January 7, 2018

Geez, the long speech with old companions appearing was a total retreat of Matt Smith's final speech (which was also three times as long as it needed to be). So glad to get Moff and his tired ideas off the show. Ever since we were given so much less than promised in 2013, I've been done with the fairy-tale lens SM sees the show through. Capaldi has been a good mature/immature doctor, but the scripts have not been great, and Clara was too MPDG for me. I'm looking forward to seeing what Chibnall will do. Will the Doctor be without her Tardis for a while? Will we be able to get through a season without a dozen bootstrap paradoxes?
posted by rikschell at 8:46 AM on January 11, 2018

Someone just gave me a "not the right time" speech about Jodi. I'd like to say that I provided a cogent, rational argument as to why that's a crappy sentiment but I think I blacked out at some point and now there's red paint all over my walls. So messy. Tsk, tsk.
posted by jojo and the benjamins at 6:35 AM on January 13, 2018 [4 favorites]

Glad to know that there are glass computer angels that freeze time at the moment of regeneration and put mascara on female timelords.

Billions of years and the unfathomable distance of space hasn’t slowed down the local Mary Kay pushers one bit.
posted by dr_dank at 4:47 PM on January 31, 2018