The Walking Dead: Wrath
April 17, 2018 12:43 PM - Season 8, Episode 16 - Subscribe
The communities join forces in the last stand against the Saviors as all-out war unfolds. Season finale.
I'm with Maggie: Negan needed to die and it feels like bullshit that he didn't. (Also feels like bullshit that they'd be able to patch up that wound in a field in the middle of nowhere, but hey.)
I liked Jadis's "you can call me Ann", but Morgan's yeah-that's-nice-but-I'm-not-going-with-you response felt weirdly jarring; like the show was teasing a Jadis/Morgan odd-couple ship but then shied away from it.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 1:10 PM on April 17, 2018 [1 favorite]
I liked Jadis's "you can call me Ann", but Morgan's yeah-that's-nice-but-I'm-not-going-with-you response felt weirdly jarring; like the show was teasing a Jadis/Morgan odd-couple ship but then shied away from it.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 1:10 PM on April 17, 2018 [1 favorite]
That ending scene...why the hell would Jesus, of all people, be on board with Maggie's plan to, what, kill Negan (and/or punish Rick and Michonne)? I get the Maggie wants her revenge. And I can kind of see Daryl being on board, especially since he and Rick have been butting heads a lot throughout the last season or two. But Jesus, our local neighbourhood pacifist, is on board with what seems to be a plan to murder Negan?
posted by asnider at 1:47 PM on April 17, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by asnider at 1:47 PM on April 17, 2018 [2 favorites]
I knew ten seconds before, as soon as I saw Eugene's face that he'd fucked the bullets. Best episode of the season. But I don't like that Negan lived, or that Maggie and Darryl and Jesus are squaring off against Rick and Michonne. Still, awesome end of season.
posted by valkane at 4:11 PM on April 17, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by valkane at 4:11 PM on April 17, 2018 [1 favorite]
why the hell would Jesus, of all people, be on board with Maggie's plan to, what, kill Negan (and/or punish Rick and Michonne)?
I don't think he has any wish to punish Rick and Michonne, but yeah, his attitude towards Negan doesn't fit, imo. Mind you I still haven't seen all the Jesus episodes (I'm still catching up) but from what I have seen this twist doesn't fit the character as he's been presented thus far. I hope they're not tweaking the character just for the sake of more drama.
posted by homunculus at 10:32 PM on April 17, 2018 [1 favorite]
I don't think he has any wish to punish Rick and Michonne, but yeah, his attitude towards Negan doesn't fit, imo. Mind you I still haven't seen all the Jesus episodes (I'm still catching up) but from what I have seen this twist doesn't fit the character as he's been presented thus far. I hope they're not tweaking the character just for the sake of more drama.
posted by homunculus at 10:32 PM on April 17, 2018 [1 favorite]
Am I the only one who thought we got at least one image of negan's neck wound just gushing blood after rick sliced him? This show already requires such intense suspension of disbelief (and frequent suspension of its own internal logic) but to me that moment when Rick told Siddiq to save him had me really scratching my head . . . like how is he possibly savable?
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 5:25 AM on April 18, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 5:25 AM on April 18, 2018 [2 favorites]
He crawled under a dumpster.
posted by tobascodagama at 9:43 AM on April 18, 2018 [7 favorites]
posted by tobascodagama at 9:43 AM on April 18, 2018 [7 favorites]
a wizard did it
posted by entropicamericana at 10:06 AM on April 18, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by entropicamericana at 10:06 AM on April 18, 2018 [1 favorite]
A wizard in a dumpster.
posted by homunculus at 12:17 PM on April 18, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by homunculus at 12:17 PM on April 18, 2018 [3 favorites]
This was the best season finale that the show has had since Conquer (Season 5). The season on the whole was uneven and occasionally insultingly bad, but they ended well enough and I will probably be back next season.
Negan is a weird place for Rick to draw the line. The Grimes gang has spent the last few seasons killing their way through literally hundreds of Saviors to get the Negan, including the ones a couple episodes ago who were actively trying to work with Rick and Morgan. Deciding that this guy right here is the one that needs to be spared so that society can flourish feels arbitrary. What measure is a mook, indeed (CW: TV Tropes)?
This is not a show for taking prisoners. Virtually everyone who has ever been taken prisoner has escaped and they have usually killed a bunch of people in the process. I do not expect for Negan to be imprisoned by the end of next season, although I do think the possibility exists of his being integrated into the group.
No community (no matter how long or successfully it has sustained itself previously) survives contact with our protagonists for long; I am not optimistic about how Oceanside will fare now that they have reintroduced themselves to the world.
posted by Parasite Unseen at 2:24 PM on April 18, 2018 [2 favorites]
Negan is a weird place for Rick to draw the line. The Grimes gang has spent the last few seasons killing their way through literally hundreds of Saviors to get the Negan, including the ones a couple episodes ago who were actively trying to work with Rick and Morgan. Deciding that this guy right here is the one that needs to be spared so that society can flourish feels arbitrary. What measure is a mook, indeed (CW: TV Tropes)?
This is not a show for taking prisoners. Virtually everyone who has ever been taken prisoner has escaped and they have usually killed a bunch of people in the process. I do not expect for Negan to be imprisoned by the end of next season, although I do think the possibility exists of his being integrated into the group.
No community (no matter how long or successfully it has sustained itself previously) survives contact with our protagonists for long; I am not optimistic about how Oceanside will fare now that they have reintroduced themselves to the world.
posted by Parasite Unseen at 2:24 PM on April 18, 2018 [2 favorites]
I do think the possibility exists of his being integrated into the group.
Certainly seems possible given that Rick's premonitions/the flash forwards about the tree and stained glass seem to come true in this finale, right?
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 2:29 PM on April 18, 2018
Certainly seems possible given that Rick's premonitions/the flash forwards about the tree and stained glass seem to come true in this finale, right?
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 2:29 PM on April 18, 2018
(Also feels like bullshit that they'd be able to patch up that wound in a field in the middle of nowhere, but hey.)
You really think that all these folks would go into a battle without bringing medical supplies? They know enough to do that by now.
Jesus has barely been on the show lately, so I blame the usual suspects for throwing him into the mix with Daryl and Maggie and such to "plot" to get Negan. It is not believable but we also haven't heard him talk for about 4-5 episodes, so who knows how that character is feeling.
Definitely come back next season, when Angela Kang, the new showrunner (who has written some of the best episodes of Walking Dead EVER) takes over from Stupid Scott Gimple.
My husband pointed out, and I agree, that Rick saved Negan, not only cause of what Carl said, but because EVERYONE WAS WATCHING HIM, including the Saviors they decided not to kill. Rick has done that sort of thing before, when an audience is in front of him, to "do the right thing."
I thought Negan's tears in front of Rick were really beautiful and provided a last drama between them - how they both wrestle with mercy and wrath, as the show has clunkingly tried to play with this season. Negan believes he is merciful by only killing a few people "at the right time," as he says, but of course he has wrath aplenty. Rick hasn't been able to be merciful in a long time - so it's great to see him come around again. The show isn't anything without characters wrestling with their morals.
Certainly seems possible given that Rick's premonitions/the flash forwards about the tree and stained glass seem to come true in this finale, right?
Those scenes of old Rick and such were not Rick's premonitions - they were Carl's daydreams about a life possible going forward in a peace with Negan. The flash-forwards to Rick under the tree was a tease for us to wonder what was going to happen.
posted by agregoli at 6:59 AM on April 19, 2018
You really think that all these folks would go into a battle without bringing medical supplies? They know enough to do that by now.
Jesus has barely been on the show lately, so I blame the usual suspects for throwing him into the mix with Daryl and Maggie and such to "plot" to get Negan. It is not believable but we also haven't heard him talk for about 4-5 episodes, so who knows how that character is feeling.
Definitely come back next season, when Angela Kang, the new showrunner (who has written some of the best episodes of Walking Dead EVER) takes over from Stupid Scott Gimple.
My husband pointed out, and I agree, that Rick saved Negan, not only cause of what Carl said, but because EVERYONE WAS WATCHING HIM, including the Saviors they decided not to kill. Rick has done that sort of thing before, when an audience is in front of him, to "do the right thing."
I thought Negan's tears in front of Rick were really beautiful and provided a last drama between them - how they both wrestle with mercy and wrath, as the show has clunkingly tried to play with this season. Negan believes he is merciful by only killing a few people "at the right time," as he says, but of course he has wrath aplenty. Rick hasn't been able to be merciful in a long time - so it's great to see him come around again. The show isn't anything without characters wrestling with their morals.
Certainly seems possible given that Rick's premonitions/the flash forwards about the tree and stained glass seem to come true in this finale, right?
Those scenes of old Rick and such were not Rick's premonitions - they were Carl's daydreams about a life possible going forward in a peace with Negan. The flash-forwards to Rick under the tree was a tease for us to wonder what was going to happen.
posted by agregoli at 6:59 AM on April 19, 2018
It is not believable but we also haven't heard him [Jesus] talk for about 4-5 episodes, so who knows how that character is feeling.
Jesus just finished telling Morgan that he didn't need to kill people. Unless he is joining them to oppose Rick on some other philosophical grounds, his involvement with the Negan Must Die Party doesn't make sense and flies against one of his core beliefs.
posted by cardboard at 7:47 AM on April 19, 2018 [3 favorites]
Jesus just finished telling Morgan that he didn't need to kill people. Unless he is joining them to oppose Rick on some other philosophical grounds, his involvement with the Negan Must Die Party doesn't make sense and flies against one of his core beliefs.
posted by cardboard at 7:47 AM on April 19, 2018 [3 favorites]
In this episode he did? I don't remember that. I only remember Jesus telling Morgan that back when they took that round of Saviors prisoner.
posted by agregoli at 9:19 AM on April 19, 2018
posted by agregoli at 9:19 AM on April 19, 2018
(I also felt, like some of the characters perhaps, that "we don't need to kill them all" doesn't exactly extend in my reasoning to sparing Negan. But I am happy that Rick is trying to stop the bloodshed.)
posted by agregoli at 9:21 AM on April 19, 2018
posted by agregoli at 9:21 AM on April 19, 2018
It's pretty awesome too that Maggie has gone full psycho on wanting revenge because back at the farm she was the one quoting bible verses to dad when he tried to send Rick and Co. away.
I think the show has made a blunder by not bringing Glenn back in a flashback or dream sequence, or showing him at all - Glenn in many ways was the show's roughest death, and he was always a moral leader and someone who tried to define "who we are" as people who would help others. HE wouldn't have been okay with Maggie trying to avenge his death, and I think the show should address this more clearly.
posted by agregoli at 10:17 AM on April 19, 2018
I think the show has made a blunder by not bringing Glenn back in a flashback or dream sequence, or showing him at all - Glenn in many ways was the show's roughest death, and he was always a moral leader and someone who tried to define "who we are" as people who would help others. HE wouldn't have been okay with Maggie trying to avenge his death, and I think the show should address this more clearly.
posted by agregoli at 10:17 AM on April 19, 2018
Jesus to Morgan, in this episode: "You can stop people without killing them. I mean, you almost stopped me. I have a simple proposal. Something to try. This end for the dead, and this end for the living. And things will get better."
(where the first "this end" was the pointy end of Morgan's staff; the second the blunt end.)
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 1:29 PM on April 19, 2018 [2 favorites]
(where the first "this end" was the pointy end of Morgan's staff; the second the blunt end.)
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 1:29 PM on April 19, 2018 [2 favorites]
And hell, he wasn't happy with the previous leadership, and helped go behind Gregory's back to do what he thought should be done - Maggie is in charge now, but that doesn't mean he agrees with her decisions. I don't know if next you'll tell me they lingered on his approving face during that last scene, but Walking Dead is notoriously vague with their season endings - I think the entire "plot" meeting was meant to read more sinister than it will end up being.
posted by agregoli at 2:11 PM on April 19, 2018
posted by agregoli at 2:11 PM on April 19, 2018
If I'm being honest, the only show I want to talk about is TWD, and it seems like I'm only squashing discussion. Sorry, y'all.
posted by agregoli at 9:12 PM on April 19, 2018
posted by agregoli at 9:12 PM on April 19, 2018
I hope they're not tweaking the character just for the sake of more drama.
I share that hope, but wouldn't be surprised. The only show that's worse for altering characters for the sake of plot is Riverdale.
posted by asnider at 3:26 PM on April 20, 2018
I share that hope, but wouldn't be surprised. The only show that's worse for altering characters for the sake of plot is Riverdale.
posted by asnider at 3:26 PM on April 20, 2018
Well, I did not get my wish of ending this season with Rick dead.
posted by ktkt at 4:03 PM on April 20, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by ktkt at 4:03 PM on April 20, 2018 [1 favorite]
It's repeating now on AMC on Dish Network (it's not listed on AMC's website) if anyone still hasn't seen it. It'll be followed by a rerun of the season premiere of FTWD.
posted by homunculus at 8:33 PM on April 20, 2018
posted by homunculus at 8:33 PM on April 20, 2018
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Eugene's moment was pure fucking gold. I don't hoot at my TV often (the cats don't care for it) but that was great. "I created a modicum of phooey for a full kablooey" is one of my favorite lines ever.
posted by homunculus at 12:47 PM on April 17, 2018