Legion: Chapter 11
April 17, 2018 8:18 PM - Season 2, Episode 3 - Subscribe
David navigates the maze.
How come the cat doesn't get an IMDB credit? She is a very good cat! Cats deserve IMDB credits!
posted by Mr. Excellent at 4:55 AM on April 18, 2018 [5 favorites]
posted by Mr. Excellent at 4:55 AM on April 18, 2018 [5 favorites]
Why did they have to carry Melanie? Doesn't David have telekinesis? Or was that a borrowed power from the Shadow King? (just a little thing that bugged me in that moment)
posted by kokaku at 5:37 AM on April 18, 2018
posted by kokaku at 5:37 AM on April 18, 2018
Why did they have to carry Melanie? Doesn't David have telekinesis?
That bugged me too. David has telekinesis, it's part of what makes him a world breaker. OTOH, maybe it's not a good idea to use it unless absolutely needed, you could accidentally tear a friend in half if you get an itch or sneeze.
posted by homunculus at 7:11 AM on April 18, 2018 [1 favorite]
That bugged me too. David has telekinesis, it's part of what makes him a world breaker. OTOH, maybe it's not a good idea to use it unless absolutely needed, you could accidentally tear a friend in half if you get an itch or sneeze.
posted by homunculus at 7:11 AM on April 18, 2018 [1 favorite]
In all seriousness though, that cat really DID do a good job! Took direction far better than any cat I've encountered.
posted by Golem XIV at 9:28 AM on April 18, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by Golem XIV at 9:28 AM on April 18, 2018 [1 favorite]
Can the shows I like stop having terrifying creatures enter people's facial orifices while they sleep please and thank you?
How is David going to get into Syd's mind by touching her if Syd's power is body switching when touched?
Also if David can fix people with the teeth chattering sickness then why get so freaked out over it, Cary and David? I mean I get that Kerry and Syd are the most important people in the world to them and it's not the easiest thing in the world to do, but it's also not a hopeless situation.
And I'm kinda glad the monk is dead simply because I HATE the sound of teeth chattering and I'd really like it to be over as a plotline very soon.
"Don't touch anything." "Moooooooo."
posted by elsietheeel at 11:26 AM on April 18, 2018 [4 favorites]
How is David going to get into Syd's mind by touching her if Syd's power is body switching when touched?
Also if David can fix people with the teeth chattering sickness then why get so freaked out over it, Cary and David? I mean I get that Kerry and Syd are the most important people in the world to them and it's not the easiest thing in the world to do, but it's also not a hopeless situation.
And I'm kinda glad the monk is dead simply because I HATE the sound of teeth chattering and I'd really like it to be over as a plotline very soon.
"Don't touch anything." "Moooooooo."
posted by elsietheeel at 11:26 AM on April 18, 2018 [4 favorites]
Also if David can fix people with the teeth chattering sickness then why get so freaked out over it
Yeah, I thought that too. I guess it takes time and there is effort and it no guarantees even though he has a 100% cure rate so far. But being trapped in mind seems relatively harmless in that they've created an idealized world to address a particular internalized pain/desire.
posted by kokaku at 11:55 AM on April 18, 2018
Yeah, I thought that too. I guess it takes time and there is effort and it no guarantees even though he has a 100% cure rate so far. But being trapped in mind seems relatively harmless in that they've created an idealized world to address a particular internalized pain/desire.
posted by kokaku at 11:55 AM on April 18, 2018
I also got the sense when they were in Melanie's mind that maybe they couldn't just leave? Because I was thinking that given the initial difficulty and the minotaur, maybe come back later and help her after you'd found the missing typhoid monk.
posted by kokaku at 3:15 PM on April 18, 2018
posted by kokaku at 3:15 PM on April 18, 2018
Perhaps I wasn't watching very closely, but did other people get the impression that the teeth-chattering contagion wasn't exactly the monk, but a kind of second-hand effect of Farouk? The monks were being... corroded, in a way, by the body of Farouk they had hidden, that was my take.
It leads me to a kind of a hazy theory that there's going to be a surprise when we open that white coffin. I think there's an ancient evil type element in the mix, and it's currently sealed in Farouk's body. Perhaps David unwittingly infected himself with it when he smashed Farouk's head in, in the other timeline, and the apocalyptic future is being caused by a corrupted version of David. I bet future Syd lost her arm trying to drain whatever corrupted force out of David's body, in that future. David probably can't read her mind because in that future, the only thing that's kept her alive is some kind of psychic protection from David. Perhaps future Syd knows that Farouk's body is in itself a kind of trap, and is hoping Farouk is destroyed when he returns to it? Not totally sure.
posted by Rinku at 7:06 PM on April 18, 2018 [2 favorites]
It leads me to a kind of a hazy theory that there's going to be a surprise when we open that white coffin. I think there's an ancient evil type element in the mix, and it's currently sealed in Farouk's body. Perhaps David unwittingly infected himself with it when he smashed Farouk's head in, in the other timeline, and the apocalyptic future is being caused by a corrupted version of David. I bet future Syd lost her arm trying to drain whatever corrupted force out of David's body, in that future. David probably can't read her mind because in that future, the only thing that's kept her alive is some kind of psychic protection from David. Perhaps future Syd knows that Farouk's body is in itself a kind of trap, and is hoping Farouk is destroyed when he returns to it? Not totally sure.
posted by Rinku at 7:06 PM on April 18, 2018 [2 favorites]
So glad they addressed the agency of Lenny!
And his telekinesis in the comics is definitely a symptom of an absorbed mind, not his. Not that we should take the comics as gospel.
posted by politikitty at 10:21 PM on April 18, 2018
And his telekinesis in the comics is definitely a symptom of an absorbed mind, not his. Not that we should take the comics as gospel.
posted by politikitty at 10:21 PM on April 18, 2018
I'm perilously close to running out of patience with David just unconditionally trusting Future Syd. He has no reason to believe she's even real!
posted by showbiz_liz at 4:14 AM on April 19, 2018 [10 favorites]
posted by showbiz_liz at 4:14 AM on April 19, 2018 [10 favorites]
I feel similarly about his hope that Farouk is going to keep his word. Despite his spiel about debt being a thing that must be respected.
posted by kokaku at 7:34 AM on April 19, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by kokaku at 7:34 AM on April 19, 2018 [2 favorites]
Perhaps I wasn't watching very closely, but did other people get the impression that the teeth-chattering contagion wasn't exactly the monk, but a kind of second-hand effect of Farouk? The monks were being... corroded, in a way, by the body of Farouk they had hidden, that was my take.
Yup, when David was inhabiting the monk's memories, the last day had the monk seeing just how deranged the rest of the monastery had become, including the chattering.. but at no point did he *do* something that seemed to cause it, it was just there when he woke up (along with the suicides).
posted by FatherDagon at 8:13 AM on April 19, 2018 [1 favorite]
Yup, when David was inhabiting the monk's memories, the last day had the monk seeing just how deranged the rest of the monastery had become, including the chattering.. but at no point did he *do* something that seemed to cause it, it was just there when he woke up (along with the suicides).
posted by FatherDagon at 8:13 AM on April 19, 2018 [1 favorite]
I feel similarly about his hope that Farouk is going to keep his word. Despite his spiel about debt being a thing that must be respected.
My hope (bolstered by the amazingness of the first season, since I wouldn't give this benefit of the doubt to a lesser show) is that David's willingness to trust FutureSyd and Farouk is rooted in something other than just David being an idiot for no good reason.
I actually feel like I have good reason to hope for this, largely based on the John Hamm monologues we've been getting every episode. All of them are telling us that ideas can twist and transform reality, and I don't quite buy that this is just referring to the stuff we currently know has been twisted, like the chattering virus twisting peoples' minds. I don't think we can trust that any given thing we've seen this season is reality, or at least "objective" reality or "original" reality. So my hope is that David's blind trust here is something that's being manipulated into him somehow.
posted by showbiz_liz at 9:50 AM on April 19, 2018
My hope (bolstered by the amazingness of the first season, since I wouldn't give this benefit of the doubt to a lesser show) is that David's willingness to trust FutureSyd and Farouk is rooted in something other than just David being an idiot for no good reason.
I actually feel like I have good reason to hope for this, largely based on the John Hamm monologues we've been getting every episode. All of them are telling us that ideas can twist and transform reality, and I don't quite buy that this is just referring to the stuff we currently know has been twisted, like the chattering virus twisting peoples' minds. I don't think we can trust that any given thing we've seen this season is reality, or at least "objective" reality or "original" reality. So my hope is that David's blind trust here is something that's being manipulated into him somehow.
posted by showbiz_liz at 9:50 AM on April 19, 2018
So we see Farouk's body constantly punching his weird Mork from Ork coffin from the inside...who's inhabiting his body? Can he be in two bodies at once? Was he in the coffin and David? Or in the coffin and Oliver?
posted by elsietheeel at 9:55 AM on April 19, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by elsietheeel at 9:55 AM on April 19, 2018 [1 favorite]
Did I miss where David told Farouk about Future Syd?
They talk about her pretty explicitly in this episode. But I'm curious if that's evidence the entire thing is Farouk manipulation or just that he's also a psychic and the scene is yet another misdirection.
I do believe that the Migo Monk is the contagion. Oliver is nowhere near District 3 when the Monk escapes. But Farouk is splitting hairs, and it's his mindless body that is the source, not his astral self that is talking to David. I kinda see his body as Spiro Agnew from Futurama - or I guess the original Frankenstein's monster that inspired that pop culture reference. If your astral self is cut out, rather than actual brain death - what does a body look like? Why should we expect it to be a quiet coma?
Also, at least two of Shadow King's comic story lines have him able to control many people beyond the body he inhabits. In Season 1, it seemed pretty clear he could only control one body at the time, hence the body hopping. In the Muir Island Saga, he's controlling people on at least 2 different continents. But that could easily have been an effect of being trapped so long in David's mind - being destructive and able to borrow some of David's reality warping skills, but unable to fully control David, and hence not able to also control other people.
posted by politikitty at 10:42 AM on April 19, 2018 [1 favorite]
They talk about her pretty explicitly in this episode. But I'm curious if that's evidence the entire thing is Farouk manipulation or just that he's also a psychic and the scene is yet another misdirection.
I do believe that the Migo Monk is the contagion. Oliver is nowhere near District 3 when the Monk escapes. But Farouk is splitting hairs, and it's his mindless body that is the source, not his astral self that is talking to David. I kinda see his body as Spiro Agnew from Futurama - or I guess the original Frankenstein's monster that inspired that pop culture reference. If your astral self is cut out, rather than actual brain death - what does a body look like? Why should we expect it to be a quiet coma?
Also, at least two of Shadow King's comic story lines have him able to control many people beyond the body he inhabits. In Season 1, it seemed pretty clear he could only control one body at the time, hence the body hopping. In the Muir Island Saga, he's controlling people on at least 2 different continents. But that could easily have been an effect of being trapped so long in David's mind - being destructive and able to borrow some of David's reality warping skills, but unable to fully control David, and hence not able to also control other people.
posted by politikitty at 10:42 AM on April 19, 2018 [1 favorite]
Did I miss where David told Farouk about Future Syd?
I think there's a scene we didn't see where David agrees to work with Farouk in the first place, in which he probably explained why.
posted by Ragged Richard at 12:37 PM on April 19, 2018
I think there's a scene we didn't see where David agrees to work with Farouk in the first place, in which he probably explained why.
posted by Ragged Richard at 12:37 PM on April 19, 2018
I dunno. He hedged on telling Syd, deciding it was a technicality since Syd will become Future Syd. So I don't think it follows that he would probably tell Farouk why he was willing to help him. Getting Oliver back is reason enough.
Not that that's a bad supposition. It's just that I'm trying to figure out what's unreliable because it's implied but not seen and what's unreliable because it occurs in the astral plane, and what's unreliable because this reality is pliable. Like the cow. The cow is significant, but my mind has no idea why, and maybe it will be explained, or maybe it's just atmospheric like our DOOM hand balloons.
posted by politikitty at 12:44 PM on April 19, 2018 [2 favorites]
Not that that's a bad supposition. It's just that I'm trying to figure out what's unreliable because it's implied but not seen and what's unreliable because it occurs in the astral plane, and what's unreliable because this reality is pliable. Like the cow. The cow is significant, but my mind has no idea why, and maybe it will be explained, or maybe it's just atmospheric like our DOOM hand balloons.
posted by politikitty at 12:44 PM on April 19, 2018 [2 favorites]
I'm perilously close to running out of patience with David just unconditionally trusting Future Syd. He has no reason to believe she's even real!
I don't have a problem with David's naivete. He's spent his entire adult life struggling with his sanity, and a good portion of it in mental hospitals. He just doesn't have a lot of experience with interpersonal relationships, and Syd is his first love. I have more of a problem with Syd's uncritical devotion to "her man." I don't think she's ever had a real romantic relationship before either, but she hasn't been disconnected from the world and people the way David has.
posted by homunculus at 2:38 PM on April 19, 2018 [2 favorites]
I don't have a problem with David's naivete. He's spent his entire adult life struggling with his sanity, and a good portion of it in mental hospitals. He just doesn't have a lot of experience with interpersonal relationships, and Syd is his first love. I have more of a problem with Syd's uncritical devotion to "her man." I don't think she's ever had a real romantic relationship before either, but she hasn't been disconnected from the world and people the way David has.
posted by homunculus at 2:38 PM on April 19, 2018 [2 favorites]
Maybe the real key to everything being all in someone's mind is the way they got together in season 1...do you want to be my girlfriend? ~pause~ sure
posted by kokaku at 3:27 PM on April 19, 2018
posted by kokaku at 3:27 PM on April 19, 2018
do you want to be my girlfriend? ~pause~ sure
And then they danced :)
posted by homunculus at 4:07 PM on April 19, 2018 [1 favorite]
And then they danced :)
posted by homunculus at 4:07 PM on April 19, 2018 [1 favorite]
I can't be the first person to conjecture that everything we've seen so far has happened inside David's head, and that every character (except Farouk) is one of his personalities. I don't think this would be a fake-out/it-was-all-a-dream thing (as the point is that all his personalities are completely real and distinct, as they would be if they had bodies), but I'd think a lot of people would be very annoyed if it was the case.
posted by Grangousier at 1:42 PM on April 20, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by Grangousier at 1:42 PM on April 20, 2018 [1 favorite]
So. The green finger balloons visible on the roof of the Division 3 headquarters. They were always pointing at David. that wasn't just me, right?
I'm sure that wasn't an accident, but what is it supposed to mean?
posted by ArgentCorvid at 7:06 PM on April 21, 2018 [1 favorite]
I'm sure that wasn't an accident, but what is it supposed to mean?
posted by ArgentCorvid at 7:06 PM on April 21, 2018 [1 favorite]
I don't think everything is a dream, but there's absolutely a chunk of the narrative as presented that's a delusion of, uh, someone.
We're shown the egg monster approaching both David and Syd, we see its trail later, and we actively see it (and a bit of its aftereffect) enter Ptonomy's head. There's a delusion (or multiple delusions!) going around, but we the audience are still unsure what it is, who it's affecting, and how many people are under its spell.
posted by flatluigi at 3:23 PM on April 22, 2018
We're shown the egg monster approaching both David and Syd, we see its trail later, and we actively see it (and a bit of its aftereffect) enter Ptonomy's head. There's a delusion (or multiple delusions!) going around, but we the audience are still unsure what it is, who it's affecting, and how many people are under its spell.
posted by flatluigi at 3:23 PM on April 22, 2018
So glad they addressed the agency of Lenny
yea, but then there David is talking to Farouk, and poor Lenny is killing herself in the background. David doesn't even say anything about it or try to help her, which was pretty heartless.
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 4:50 AM on April 23, 2018
yea, but then there David is talking to Farouk, and poor Lenny is killing herself in the background. David doesn't even say anything about it or try to help her, which was pretty heartless.
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 4:50 AM on April 23, 2018
Oh the characters are all super shitty about Lenny. But I'm happy the writers aren't just treating her as an NPC. I'm not surprised that David has lost any sympathy for her - she's the face of the Shadow King for him, while Farouk is simply devoid of sympathy.
posted by politikitty at 10:01 AM on April 23, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by politikitty at 10:01 AM on April 23, 2018 [1 favorite]
I really really liked the swinging camera movements in the scene where Farouk is telling David that the monk is causing the chattering teeth thing. Sometimes they get fun and expressive with basic camera movements on this show and I love it, I think one of the things that sets this show above others is how the artistic usefulness of every little aspect of filmmaking gets explored and experimented with in big and small ways. There's a sense of play while still feeling tightly controlled.
posted by jason_steakums at 6:36 PM on April 25, 2018 [5 favorites]
posted by jason_steakums at 6:36 PM on April 25, 2018 [5 favorites]
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posted by JimBennett at 8:25 PM on April 17, 2018