The Expanse: It Reaches Out Show Only
May 31, 2018 2:04 PM - Season 3, Episode 8 - Subscribe
Oh my God, it's a mirage / I'm tellin' y'all, it's a sabotage
The UN, MCRN and Belter flotilla continue to deaccelerate towards the Ring, with the Rocinate tagging along. Jim Holden's hallucinations of a stuttering, random Miller continue, but begin to have an explanation: Miller is a projection of the protomolecule fragment hidden aboard the ship, an "Investigator" sent by the Ring after the rockhopper sped through it ahead of the fleet.
Aboard the UNN Seung Un, Melba wakes from her self-activated fugue state and hides the body of her supervisor. Returned to the UNN Thomas Prince, and with at least one member of the documentary crew sabotaging the Rocinate, Melba activates the bomb she planted on the fleet support ship, destroying it. Moments later, a video of James Holden stating he has struck the UNN on behalf of the OPA is broadcast to the fleet.
Confused and locked out of their own communication and weapons systems, the crew of the Roci take evasive maneuvers as the Behemoth targets them, Drummer being entirely willing to kill the ship to divorce the Belter fleet from this unprovoked action against the UNN. Chased by a missile, Holden abandons the bridge to commune with the Investigator, gaining the insight to slip inside the Ring at a high-G brake, where the rules of spacetime are… different.
Moments of note: Naomi's speech patterns and accent drifting more towards her native Belter the longer she spends on the Behemoth. "Look, if there's anything you need to get off your chest… I'm not much help."
Cancellation news: After three weeks of intense fan lobbying, Amazon's Jeff Bezos announced that The Expanse was saved during a gala dinner with many of the show's cast at the International Space Development Conference, to rapturous applause. Details at this point are few, but the show will go on.
The UN, MCRN and Belter flotilla continue to deaccelerate towards the Ring, with the Rocinate tagging along. Jim Holden's hallucinations of a stuttering, random Miller continue, but begin to have an explanation: Miller is a projection of the protomolecule fragment hidden aboard the ship, an "Investigator" sent by the Ring after the rockhopper sped through it ahead of the fleet.
Aboard the UNN Seung Un, Melba wakes from her self-activated fugue state and hides the body of her supervisor. Returned to the UNN Thomas Prince, and with at least one member of the documentary crew sabotaging the Rocinate, Melba activates the bomb she planted on the fleet support ship, destroying it. Moments later, a video of James Holden stating he has struck the UNN on behalf of the OPA is broadcast to the fleet.
Confused and locked out of their own communication and weapons systems, the crew of the Roci take evasive maneuvers as the Behemoth targets them, Drummer being entirely willing to kill the ship to divorce the Belter fleet from this unprovoked action against the UNN. Chased by a missile, Holden abandons the bridge to commune with the Investigator, gaining the insight to slip inside the Ring at a high-G brake, where the rules of spacetime are… different.
Moments of note: Naomi's speech patterns and accent drifting more towards her native Belter the longer she spends on the Behemoth. "Look, if there's anything you need to get off your chest… I'm not much help."
Cancellation news: After three weeks of intense fan lobbying, Amazon's Jeff Bezos announced that The Expanse was saved during a gala dinner with many of the show's cast at the International Space Development Conference, to rapturous applause. Details at this point are few, but the show will go on.
omg that was a GREAT episode.
posted by lapolla at 3:05 PM on May 31, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by lapolla at 3:05 PM on May 31, 2018 [1 favorite]
I am, for the record, really loving the Belter songs and the fact they’re starting to have dramatic untranslated Belter that is just comprehensible. Naomi screaming “You know him!” and we know it because the Belter creep has been believeable. Glorious.
posted by corb at 4:17 PM on May 31, 2018 [9 favorites]
posted by corb at 4:17 PM on May 31, 2018 [9 favorites]
Everyone should listen to the interview with Cas Anvar (Alex) on this week's episode of The Churn podcast where he talks about efforts to save the show and meeting Jeff Bezos. Bezos is a huge fan of the show and books -- meeting cast members and producers of The Expanse at ISDC was Bezos' own personal Comic-Con.
The Amazon deal might have happened eventually but meeting Cas Anvar made Bezos want to close the deal that day.
posted by nathan_teske at 4:41 PM on May 31, 2018 [9 favorites]
The Amazon deal might have happened eventually but meeting Cas Anvar made Bezos want to close the deal that day.
posted by nathan_teske at 4:41 PM on May 31, 2018 [9 favorites]
So are we thinking they're superluminal or some other lightspeed hijinks? The blueshift on the incoming missile seems to suggest it, but I might be reading in to it.
posted by Kyol at 5:33 PM on May 31, 2018
posted by Kyol at 5:33 PM on May 31, 2018
I sort of wish they had actually used our current-era deepfake tech to make the Holden deepfake, even though obvs their deepfake tech would be actually indistinguishable from actual footage and therefore my pitch is in-universe indefensible.
I was very pleased and satisfied with how they narratively compressed the concept of the Investigator and his core message to Holden.
It's a very nice hat. I only just now realized it symbolically connects to both Holmes' deerstalker and the presumptive Alpine climbing cap he was wearing at Reichenbach Falls.
posted by mwhybark at 5:43 PM on May 31, 2018 [6 favorites]
I was very pleased and satisfied with how they narratively compressed the concept of the Investigator and his core message to Holden.
It's a very nice hat. I only just now realized it symbolically connects to both Holmes' deerstalker and the presumptive Alpine climbing cap he was wearing at Reichenbach Falls.
posted by mwhybark at 5:43 PM on May 31, 2018 [6 favorites]
Old Pirate is starting to remind me of Sher Khan. I never realized David Straitharn could be so...prowly.
Love the bomb detonation app on Mao's phone. Personally, I would have gone with "Order flowers? Yes/No" just in case someone came around a corner just then instead of "Detonate", but that's just me.
Did *not* love Alex saying "You read his autodoc logs? That's a major breach of trust! (pause) What did they say?" as that line and that delivery was so sitcom. I half-expected a laugh track. The only clunky bit in an otherwise excellent episode.
*Did* continue to love Wes Chatham as an actor, as he continues to do more with a slight pause then most actors can do with their whole body. This time, the instant when Holden says "Have I ever asked you to trust me?". You can see Amos suddenly realizing that Holden never has, and that he never noticed that before, and what does that say about the two of them?
Also, a little snicker as the Belters chat about how Earthers always lie and then we go to the reporter promising to tell Holden's story the right way. That I enjoyed.
God I love this show.
posted by Mogur at 6:12 PM on May 31, 2018 [14 favorites]
Love the bomb detonation app on Mao's phone. Personally, I would have gone with "Order flowers? Yes/No" just in case someone came around a corner just then instead of "Detonate", but that's just me.
Did *not* love Alex saying "You read his autodoc logs? That's a major breach of trust! (pause) What did they say?" as that line and that delivery was so sitcom. I half-expected a laugh track. The only clunky bit in an otherwise excellent episode.
*Did* continue to love Wes Chatham as an actor, as he continues to do more with a slight pause then most actors can do with their whole body. This time, the instant when Holden says "Have I ever asked you to trust me?". You can see Amos suddenly realizing that Holden never has, and that he never noticed that before, and what does that say about the two of them?
Also, a little snicker as the Belters chat about how Earthers always lie and then we go to the reporter promising to tell Holden's story the right way. That I enjoyed.
God I love this show.
posted by Mogur at 6:12 PM on May 31, 2018 [14 favorites]
Loved Miller glitching.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 6:54 PM on May 31, 2018 [8 favorites]
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 6:54 PM on May 31, 2018 [8 favorites]
Am I wrong or did they show the protomolecule on the Roci way back after they fought the hybrid?
posted by runcibleshaw at 7:21 PM on May 31, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by runcibleshaw at 7:21 PM on May 31, 2018 [1 favorite]
It was right around there, yeah.
posted by mordax at 7:34 PM on May 31, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by mordax at 7:34 PM on May 31, 2018 [1 favorite]
I never realized David Straitharn could be so...prowly.
Ditto, it's a shame he's always getting cast as principled characters, because he's so good at playing skeezy.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:21 PM on May 31, 2018 [2 favorites]
Ditto, it's a shame he's always getting cast as principled characters, because he's so good at playing skeezy.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:21 PM on May 31, 2018 [2 favorites]
It’s a very nice hat.
This comment made me so happy. Tell me you intended the reference to the best scene in the Fifth Element?
posted by sixswitch at 8:51 PM on May 31, 2018 [7 favorites]
This comment made me so happy. Tell me you intended the reference to the best scene in the Fifth Element?
posted by sixswitch at 8:51 PM on May 31, 2018 [7 favorites]
i've now watched this ep 3 times, and probably will watch the rerun coming up in 15 minutes. this ep is just THAT GOOD.
so, it's odd if i compare it to Solo, maybe even unfair. i know, and i am not intending to go down a rabbit-hole in that respect. i just want to make the argument that this show is doing amazing stuff that even a blockbuster has difficulty landing. i mean, i enjoyed SOLO well enough, but even though it should have been edge-of-seat thrilling, it just wasn't. and it's not because i know that Han and Chewie live long after and are not in any real danger, and don't have that same security with The Expanse: i've spoiled myself pretty well on it. it was, simply, thrilling - as it was the second time i watched it, possibly more so. and the third! i noticed so much more each time. only 45 minutes, and it's EPIC.
one of the things that makes it so engaging for me is that each character is so believable. i did not mind that exchange between Amos and Alex at all - it didn't seem sitcom-trope to me. it felt like many real conversations i've overheard, heard, been part of... and was totally in character for Alex. i understand why every player does what they do - even when i find them irritating beyond belief (the reporter, Monica).
in the review over at AV Club, which is pretty positive over all, Zach Handlen found Holden's behavior to ring a little hollow, in that he falls apart far too fast, that perhaps his torment is melodramatic or a plot device. but if i'd gone through all that? and then, seeing Miller - and having a conversation with him? i'd be losing my shit, too! it rings true. in the review he states that type of writing is the reason why some think this show is "very good" but fails to be "great".
i do not know what he is talking about, and i think anyone who does not think this is a great show is wrong. just, wrong. i watch SO MUCH long-form narrative, and will put up with some pretty mannered and trope-y writing. i don't have to. this show very consistently makes me feel the same way i did, coming out of the theater all those years ago when i saw the first Star Wars movie. death has weight. survival has passion and joy. the mystery just keeps unfolding.
sure, not every episode is perfect. sure, the series got off to a slow start. but it is consistently so good at staying true to the genre, while joyfully reinventing it; of referencing other great sci-fi, with out aping it; and of subverting expectatons, without bringing about disappointment. i am so glad Bezos said yes, and Amazon picked it up! and i am glad it has the kind of fans who will publicly compare him to Jule-Pierre Mao, for the way Amazon warehouse emplyees are treated, while still thanking him for saving the show.
ok that's enough fan-girling from me!
posted by lapolla at 11:16 PM on May 31, 2018 [16 favorites]
so, it's odd if i compare it to Solo, maybe even unfair. i know, and i am not intending to go down a rabbit-hole in that respect. i just want to make the argument that this show is doing amazing stuff that even a blockbuster has difficulty landing. i mean, i enjoyed SOLO well enough, but even though it should have been edge-of-seat thrilling, it just wasn't. and it's not because i know that Han and Chewie live long after and are not in any real danger, and don't have that same security with The Expanse: i've spoiled myself pretty well on it. it was, simply, thrilling - as it was the second time i watched it, possibly more so. and the third! i noticed so much more each time. only 45 minutes, and it's EPIC.
one of the things that makes it so engaging for me is that each character is so believable. i did not mind that exchange between Amos and Alex at all - it didn't seem sitcom-trope to me. it felt like many real conversations i've overheard, heard, been part of... and was totally in character for Alex. i understand why every player does what they do - even when i find them irritating beyond belief (the reporter, Monica).
in the review over at AV Club, which is pretty positive over all, Zach Handlen found Holden's behavior to ring a little hollow, in that he falls apart far too fast, that perhaps his torment is melodramatic or a plot device. but if i'd gone through all that? and then, seeing Miller - and having a conversation with him? i'd be losing my shit, too! it rings true. in the review he states that type of writing is the reason why some think this show is "very good" but fails to be "great".
i do not know what he is talking about, and i think anyone who does not think this is a great show is wrong. just, wrong. i watch SO MUCH long-form narrative, and will put up with some pretty mannered and trope-y writing. i don't have to. this show very consistently makes me feel the same way i did, coming out of the theater all those years ago when i saw the first Star Wars movie. death has weight. survival has passion and joy. the mystery just keeps unfolding.
sure, not every episode is perfect. sure, the series got off to a slow start. but it is consistently so good at staying true to the genre, while joyfully reinventing it; of referencing other great sci-fi, with out aping it; and of subverting expectatons, without bringing about disappointment. i am so glad Bezos said yes, and Amazon picked it up! and i am glad it has the kind of fans who will publicly compare him to Jule-Pierre Mao, for the way Amazon warehouse emplyees are treated, while still thanking him for saving the show.
ok that's enough fan-girling from me!
posted by lapolla at 11:16 PM on May 31, 2018 [16 favorites]
oh wait one more thing: Drummer ALMOST stole my heart away from Amos in this episode. almost.
posted by lapolla at 11:21 PM on May 31, 2018 [6 favorites]
posted by lapolla at 11:21 PM on May 31, 2018 [6 favorites]
Strathairn is at his best when he plays a bit sleazy. ("No, Mr. White. Pierce Morehouse Patchett.") I knew I'd enjoy his character.
posted by Zonker at 9:32 AM on June 1, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by Zonker at 9:32 AM on June 1, 2018 [1 favorite]
i haven't watched it yet but i just wanted to commend you for a great post description.
posted by numaner at 10:18 AM on June 1, 2018
posted by numaner at 10:18 AM on June 1, 2018
Re: "You read his autodoc logs? That's a major breach of trust! (pause) What did they say?"
I don't know that it's the scene, or even the line as written that's the problem, but the delivery made it a punctuated joke. It's a little on the nose, for the moment, I thought.
posted by pykrete jungle at 11:24 AM on June 1, 2018
I don't know that it's the scene, or even the line as written that's the problem, but the delivery made it a punctuated joke. It's a little on the nose, for the moment, I thought.
posted by pykrete jungle at 11:24 AM on June 1, 2018
I really loved this episode; it was paced really well and was super intense...during the viewing I was pretty involved and enthralled, but when I came away from this episode with a few nagging things I don't think were well thought out or explained well. Namely the whole Fake Holden broadcast. Given the level of technology that's just abound, why wouldn't they pause and authenticate a video like that? I had the same questions about the Erinwright confrontation, at least there they had some questions and pause around authenticity. This time, it's just like 'Woah, cool, looks like Holden to me."
The more I think about Holden's 'falling apart' in the context of the show, I'm surprised he's even holding it together on the level that he is. I mean, this guy's been face to face with Lovecraftian-levels of horror on multiple occasions. His PTSD's gotta be baked into his DNA at this point. It's a miracle that he's even functioning, let alone acting like he's stretched thin. The moment between him and Amos was so well done.
I wish they'd explain a little better why Naomi is still considered 'crew' but they're not communicating with her at all; even if they'd just give a few clips of messages sent back and forth (nothing important just for context, or to hand wave it away). Naomi seems like a different character at this point, which is a little weird. My biggest complaint of this season is the jerking "6 months later book jump" in the middle. I wish they'd handled that a little more gracefully, even if it meant a slower paced episode as a bridge. I would like more information on how Prax and kid are doing; I would like to know where the belt's Protomolocule is, and where the fuck Cortezar is. The lack of both Dawes and Anderson, despite their constant being talked about is a little weird. Whenever I see a scene with Melba or Anna in it I'm like "No! Not more characters! I need resolution on existing characters!"
Also, I'm always intensely nervous for people who are crossing the crew in close quarters, even if they're baddies. For example, the videographer-saboteur-asshole, might have thought twice about the shit he pulled if he'd been given Amos' resume. The fact that this guy is going to be obliterated by Amos is a forgone conclusion, and it's really distressing.
posted by furnace.heart at 12:35 PM on June 1, 2018 [2 favorites]
The more I think about Holden's 'falling apart' in the context of the show, I'm surprised he's even holding it together on the level that he is. I mean, this guy's been face to face with Lovecraftian-levels of horror on multiple occasions. His PTSD's gotta be baked into his DNA at this point. It's a miracle that he's even functioning, let alone acting like he's stretched thin. The moment between him and Amos was so well done.
I wish they'd explain a little better why Naomi is still considered 'crew' but they're not communicating with her at all; even if they'd just give a few clips of messages sent back and forth (nothing important just for context, or to hand wave it away). Naomi seems like a different character at this point, which is a little weird. My biggest complaint of this season is the jerking "6 months later book jump" in the middle. I wish they'd handled that a little more gracefully, even if it meant a slower paced episode as a bridge. I would like more information on how Prax and kid are doing; I would like to know where the belt's Protomolocule is, and where the fuck Cortezar is. The lack of both Dawes and Anderson, despite their constant being talked about is a little weird. Whenever I see a scene with Melba or Anna in it I'm like "No! Not more characters! I need resolution on existing characters!"
Also, I'm always intensely nervous for people who are crossing the crew in close quarters, even if they're baddies. For example, the videographer-saboteur-asshole, might have thought twice about the shit he pulled if he'd been given Amos' resume. The fact that this guy is going to be obliterated by Amos is a forgone conclusion, and it's really distressing.
posted by furnace.heart at 12:35 PM on June 1, 2018 [2 favorites]
I assume they have some way of authenticating messages that was somehow bypassed for Holden. Given that they've used this plot device twice it would be nice to get an actual explanation however.
posted by dilaudid at 1:09 PM on June 1, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by dilaudid at 1:09 PM on June 1, 2018 [3 favorites]
Seemed to me that the Roci crew (even missing Naomi) would have more quickly guessed that the fake footage originated with the video team on their ship and, despite having immediately to
deal with incoming missiles, expected at least a few choice words on the subject.
posted by exogenous at 1:16 PM on June 1, 2018 [1 favorite]
deal with incoming missiles, expected at least a few choice words on the subject.
posted by exogenous at 1:16 PM on June 1, 2018 [1 favorite]
If anyone is still on the fence about buying a season pass, this is what you’re missing (NSFW language). Hits much harder than “FORGET YOU!”
posted by nathan_teske at 1:31 PM on June 1, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by nathan_teske at 1:31 PM on June 1, 2018 [4 favorites]
Naomi's belter accent coming back is such a great touch, I love that this show cares about character details like that.
posted by jason_steakums at 6:24 PM on June 1, 2018 [8 favorites]
posted by jason_steakums at 6:24 PM on June 1, 2018 [8 favorites]
Naomi does call for authenticating the message.
her rational, logical suggestion is dismissed - likely as being motivated by her feelings for Holden.
additionally:
it's only been 6 months since a war took place, with such aggression and so many wildcards that earth was shooting at their own ships and killing their own people. now, both of the major players in that clusterfuck, plus a radical terrorist group, are attempting to interact without escalation into mayhem. all are jumpy, and some are trigger happy.
a Earther science ship has just been bombed, moments earlier.
the false Holden message is transmitted from INSIDE the Roci. he's been known to make pronouncements before, as well as rogue decisions. he is present at this juncture with a warship that many consider stolen, under no official government purview.
the Behemoth is given one minute in which to prove they are not in league with Holden and responsible for the bomb, or become the target of missiles AS WELL as the Roci.
plus, there is a huge, alien structure/presence that has unknown purpose, just outside. and it was very recently poked. there is a lot of anxiety and fear going around.
all the decisions are made within a very, very short window of time. most, in under a minute.
Amos gets it. why would the Behemoth fire on them? he shrugs and states, "they're OPA. they have to." then gets busy surviving it.
i will be happy if we get a detailed uncovering and expose of the fraud, and i am sure it will happen to some extent. but it didn't need to take place in this episode. it woulda killed the momentum. the writing made all of the steps leading up to the missile being fired and the Roci making a run for the Ring an organic narrative progression. no one expected the Roci to go inside the gate. that's a gamechanger. all attention will likely turn to that.
as for the creepy photographer's fate? Amos might kill him, but is going to have other things to deal with, first. depends on whether he proves useful. Amos may be a psychopath, but he is pretty calculated in his violence. neither of those reporters are safe, and it may not be Amos they need to fear.
posted by lapolla at 10:22 PM on June 1, 2018 [9 favorites]
her rational, logical suggestion is dismissed - likely as being motivated by her feelings for Holden.
additionally:
it's only been 6 months since a war took place, with such aggression and so many wildcards that earth was shooting at their own ships and killing their own people. now, both of the major players in that clusterfuck, plus a radical terrorist group, are attempting to interact without escalation into mayhem. all are jumpy, and some are trigger happy.
a Earther science ship has just been bombed, moments earlier.
the false Holden message is transmitted from INSIDE the Roci. he's been known to make pronouncements before, as well as rogue decisions. he is present at this juncture with a warship that many consider stolen, under no official government purview.
the Behemoth is given one minute in which to prove they are not in league with Holden and responsible for the bomb, or become the target of missiles AS WELL as the Roci.
plus, there is a huge, alien structure/presence that has unknown purpose, just outside. and it was very recently poked. there is a lot of anxiety and fear going around.
all the decisions are made within a very, very short window of time. most, in under a minute.
Amos gets it. why would the Behemoth fire on them? he shrugs and states, "they're OPA. they have to." then gets busy surviving it.
i will be happy if we get a detailed uncovering and expose of the fraud, and i am sure it will happen to some extent. but it didn't need to take place in this episode. it woulda killed the momentum. the writing made all of the steps leading up to the missile being fired and the Roci making a run for the Ring an organic narrative progression. no one expected the Roci to go inside the gate. that's a gamechanger. all attention will likely turn to that.
as for the creepy photographer's fate? Amos might kill him, but is going to have other things to deal with, first. depends on whether he proves useful. Amos may be a psychopath, but he is pretty calculated in his violence. neither of those reporters are safe, and it may not be Amos they need to fear.
posted by lapolla at 10:22 PM on June 1, 2018 [9 favorites]
What is Alex talking about when he asks Amos, "Remember the XO on the Can? One minute he's plantin' daffodils and singin' chanteys and the next he's wavin' a six gun and..."
Alex and Amos never served together on a different ship, did they?
posted by mwhybark at 11:34 PM on June 1, 2018
Alex and Amos never served together on a different ship, did they?
posted by mwhybark at 11:34 PM on June 1, 2018
Ah ha! The Can must the the Canterbury, as Alex, Amos, Naomi, and Holden all were crew. I still want to learn more about the rootin' tootin' gardenin' XO.
posted by mwhybark at 11:37 PM on June 1, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by mwhybark at 11:37 PM on June 1, 2018 [1 favorite]
in the first episode Jonathan Banks plays the XO of the canterbury, who goes space-crazy and then Holden becomes XO.
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 12:37 AM on June 2, 2018 [9 favorites]
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 12:37 AM on June 2, 2018 [9 favorites]
I seem to recall that when the XO went mad on the Cant, the general reaction wasn't "This has never happened before!", and more like "Well, it was going to happen sooner or later, now we-- Shit, he's got a gun!"
Suggesting that space madness is a known thing, if maybe rare.
posted by Mogur at 5:04 AM on June 2, 2018 [1 favorite]
Suggesting that space madness is a known thing, if maybe rare.
posted by Mogur at 5:04 AM on June 2, 2018 [1 favorite]
I know this is a show-only discussion so I'll not go into detail, but this is the first episode where Strait really felt like Holden to me; the guy who keeps his moral orientation true while loyalties and physics are unraveling all around. I've found his character a little incomplete up until now, maybe just because some of the others a so good. I wasn't sure what his motivations and goals were exactly, but I think that'll be more clear going forward.
This episode was really compelling. I'm anxious to see where it goes.
posted by Phobos the Space Potato at 4:09 PM on June 2, 2018 [1 favorite]
This episode was really compelling. I'm anxious to see where it goes.
posted by Phobos the Space Potato at 4:09 PM on June 2, 2018 [1 favorite]
Very solid episode. I'm so glad this show got picked up for next season.
posted by rmd1023 at 7:11 AM on June 3, 2018
posted by rmd1023 at 7:11 AM on June 3, 2018
Amos gets it. why would the Behemoth fire on them? he shrugs and states, "they're OPA. they have to." then gets busy surviving it.
Arg, I missed that on first watch. You're right. Amos is the one on the Roci who grasps the political situation immediately. Granted, it's a three-way standoff with weapons, which he has certainly experienced before, but there's also a political history angle that I believe he's applying.
posted by Mogur at 10:16 AM on June 3, 2018 [2 favorites]
Arg, I missed that on first watch. You're right. Amos is the one on the Roci who grasps the political situation immediately. Granted, it's a three-way standoff with weapons, which he has certainly experienced before, but there's also a political history angle that I believe he's applying.
posted by Mogur at 10:16 AM on June 3, 2018 [2 favorites]
...and which he almost certainly learned in Baltimore... <-- not a book spoiler
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 12:55 PM on June 3, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 12:55 PM on June 3, 2018 [2 favorites]
Ah, so glad to hear Amazon has picked the show up, it means I can start watching season 3 again!
posted by turbid dahlia at 3:27 PM on June 3, 2018
posted by turbid dahlia at 3:27 PM on June 3, 2018
With no Chrisjean in the episode, I got my fix elsewhere (slyt: the Normies do an Expanse skit - they've been doing Expanse reaction videos).
posted by Mogur at 4:21 PM on June 3, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by Mogur at 4:21 PM on June 3, 2018 [1 favorite]
Badly need the prequel "Amos in Baltimore", set in 25th century where disenfranchised proles manage day to day living on the edges of an enlightened yet vastly unevenly distributed society. Crime is a thing of the past, or is it?
posted by sammyo at 6:26 PM on June 3, 2018
posted by sammyo at 6:26 PM on June 3, 2018
sammyo, consider your options with regard to non-show-only resources.
posted by mwhybark at 6:37 PM on June 3, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by mwhybark at 6:37 PM on June 3, 2018 [1 favorite]
Suggesting that space madness is a known thing, if maybe rare.
As well as kind of a jaundiced attitude among Belters. "Psychological vetting for someone put in charge of a craft that can potentially crack Ceres in two? Why?"
I have to wonder how many facilities the Belters periodically lose due to ship commanders deciding to go home at full thrust, no deacceleration involved...
posted by happyroach at 9:28 PM on June 3, 2018 [1 favorite]
As well as kind of a jaundiced attitude among Belters. "Psychological vetting for someone put in charge of a craft that can potentially crack Ceres in two? Why?"
I have to wonder how many facilities the Belters periodically lose due to ship commanders deciding to go home at full thrust, no deacceleration involved...
posted by happyroach at 9:28 PM on June 3, 2018 [1 favorite]
I expect that what happens when the captain starts getting real twitchy and doesn't flip for the burn home even close to on-time is that the other Belters on the ship calmly and without malice space him or her. Not your fault you gone bonkers, coyo, but bona muerte.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 10:07 PM on June 3, 2018 [7 favorites]
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 10:07 PM on June 3, 2018 [7 favorites]
Sammyo, you can read JUST Amos' backstory in a short story called The Churn if you're interested in that. Took me less than an hour to finish.
Not a book spoiler, but it's clear that Amos has found ways to survive whatever he gets thrown into over the years and is constantly looking for exits, keeping an eye on shady characters, and double-checking his gut against everyone else's reactions. He clearly isn't happy with these others now on board his ship.
Amos understands who Holden, Naomi and Alex are, and their motivations. He knows they're good people and to trust and follow their leads. Amos does not trust the documentary crew because he can tell they aren't being honest about their motivations or actions. Amos keeps catching that sleazy camera guy in places where he shouldn't be, and unless one of the core 3 are there to stop him (and Naomi's off-ship right now), they seem to be telegraphing it's just a matter of time before Amos does something violent to maintain the ship's status quo. It's making me verrrry nervous...
I really enjoy watching him throw back the film crews' little manipulations in their faces, like all the sexual come-ons backfiring one by one. Wes Chatham, you are a treasure! Such great acting and with so little dialogue. I feel he's probably under-appreciated on this show, though we all clearly "get" how good he is here on FanFare.
As far as where Cortazar is, Diogo (now with all-new face tattoo!) mentioned he'd seen him recently two eps back...still bunking with Anderson Dawes and his crew, then.
I think any real analysis of Holden's behavior needs to include the fact that he has a permanent medical implant that barely keeps his organs from liquifying on the daily. I doubt it's completely without some side effects (surely nausea, at least?).
Every time I see that little lump in his (massively worked-out, dear lord, does he eat anything but chicken breasts and broccoli between seasons?!) arm, I'm reminded that Holden barely survived a massive overdose of radiation. As much as we love and hate second-guessing his behavior, I doubt that he physically, emotionally and mentally took ANY time off for himself or started therapy. And he's likely still dealing with some physical side effects of the last year's many, many injuries, plus he hasn't been back to Earth or seen his family in Montana. That's got to be hard for anyone to deal with, and throwing in Ghost Hat Cop is just the cherry on top of Holden's trauma sundae.
As far as why Naomi hopped off to the Behemoth, it's clear that she is one of the most -- if not THE most -- accomplished rocket scientists/engineers working in the Belt today. She managed to hack one belter's ship remotely, redirected some of the hybrids within just minutes a few eps back, and has come up with one plan after another for stopping missiles from blowing up the Razorback and god knows what all else during the show.
She's the LeBron James of Belter engineers, so OBVIOUSLY they needed her to reconfigure the Nauvoo into the Behemoth warship we're seeing Drummer command today. That's just a given.
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 8:51 AM on June 4, 2018 [9 favorites]
Not a book spoiler, but it's clear that Amos has found ways to survive whatever he gets thrown into over the years and is constantly looking for exits, keeping an eye on shady characters, and double-checking his gut against everyone else's reactions. He clearly isn't happy with these others now on board his ship.
Amos understands who Holden, Naomi and Alex are, and their motivations. He knows they're good people and to trust and follow their leads. Amos does not trust the documentary crew because he can tell they aren't being honest about their motivations or actions. Amos keeps catching that sleazy camera guy in places where he shouldn't be, and unless one of the core 3 are there to stop him (and Naomi's off-ship right now), they seem to be telegraphing it's just a matter of time before Amos does something violent to maintain the ship's status quo. It's making me verrrry nervous...
I really enjoy watching him throw back the film crews' little manipulations in their faces, like all the sexual come-ons backfiring one by one. Wes Chatham, you are a treasure! Such great acting and with so little dialogue. I feel he's probably under-appreciated on this show, though we all clearly "get" how good he is here on FanFare.
As far as where Cortazar is, Diogo (now with all-new face tattoo!) mentioned he'd seen him recently two eps back...still bunking with Anderson Dawes and his crew, then.
I think any real analysis of Holden's behavior needs to include the fact that he has a permanent medical implant that barely keeps his organs from liquifying on the daily. I doubt it's completely without some side effects (surely nausea, at least?).
Every time I see that little lump in his (massively worked-out, dear lord, does he eat anything but chicken breasts and broccoli between seasons?!) arm, I'm reminded that Holden barely survived a massive overdose of radiation. As much as we love and hate second-guessing his behavior, I doubt that he physically, emotionally and mentally took ANY time off for himself or started therapy. And he's likely still dealing with some physical side effects of the last year's many, many injuries, plus he hasn't been back to Earth or seen his family in Montana. That's got to be hard for anyone to deal with, and throwing in Ghost Hat Cop is just the cherry on top of Holden's trauma sundae.
As far as why Naomi hopped off to the Behemoth, it's clear that she is one of the most -- if not THE most -- accomplished rocket scientists/engineers working in the Belt today. She managed to hack one belter's ship remotely, redirected some of the hybrids within just minutes a few eps back, and has come up with one plan after another for stopping missiles from blowing up the Razorback and god knows what all else during the show.
She's the LeBron James of Belter engineers, so OBVIOUSLY they needed her to reconfigure the Nauvoo into the Behemoth warship we're seeing Drummer command today. That's just a given.
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 8:51 AM on June 4, 2018 [9 favorites]
Every time I see that little lump
Crap, you can see it?
I guess I want to also re-emphasize that Strait has finally grown into the role this season, too. I suppose that might be in part that Holden has a backstory and experiences now too, which we've seen on the show. But he's much stronger on-screen this season than in s01 and s02.
posted by mwhybark at 2:29 PM on June 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
Crap, you can see it?
I guess I want to also re-emphasize that Strait has finally grown into the role this season, too. I suppose that might be in part that Holden has a backstory and experiences now too, which we've seen on the show. But he's much stronger on-screen this season than in s01 and s02.
posted by mwhybark at 2:29 PM on June 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
corb: I am, for the record, really loving the Belter songs and the fact they’re starting to have dramatic untranslated Belter that is just comprehensible. Naomi screaming “You know him!” and we know it because the Belter creep has been believeable.
To get nitpicky about it, Pirate and I are pretty sure they got that line just slightly wrong. Instead of "To sasa im!" it should have been "To keng im!"
I haven't buttonholed Nick Farmer about this yet (the Lang Belta meetups have fallen off in frequency due to scheduling difficulties), but as I understand it, the sasa/keng difference is like the savoir/croire difference in French. Savoir/sasa are used for intellectual knowledge; croire/keng are used for more gut-level knowledge and certainty. According to this page, savoir is knowledge in general; croire is certainty without proof. Savoir is the opposite of ignorance; croire is the opposite of doubt.
Plus, Nick has told us that "It's good to meet you/know you" is "Fo keng to im gut", not "fo sasa to".
So in this scene, I think the reading should have been more of a gut-level "You KNOW him. You know him as a person and what he's capable of. To keng im!"
As I say, I haven't spoken to anybody involved with the show about this, and could be completely wrong. But given what we know about how creoles are parsimonious with vocabulary and tend not to have straight synonyms, it seems unlikely that there would be two words for "know" if there weren't an intended difference between them.
mwhybark: What is Alex talking about when he asks Amos, "Remember the XO on the Can? One minute he's plantin' daffodils and singin' chanteys and the next he's wavin' a six gun and..."
The Cant is the Canterbury, the ice-hauler they were on when the show started. As the slogans put it, "Remember the Cant!" or "Xalte ere gova da Cant!" The XO is the one who'd holed up in his quarters (singing "Daisy"), requiring Holden to go in after him. "We make it all this way, so far out into the darkness… why couldn't we have brought more light?"
Unicorn on the cob: Every time I see that little lump
mwhybark: Crap, you can see it?
Yep! Holden and Naomi in the airlock. Holden drunk-messaging home. And take a look at the scene at the end of S03E07 where Holden and Naomi are in the bunk together – it's very clear there.
posted by Lexica at 4:08 PM on June 4, 2018 [6 favorites]
To get nitpicky about it, Pirate and I are pretty sure they got that line just slightly wrong. Instead of "To sasa im!" it should have been "To keng im!"
I haven't buttonholed Nick Farmer about this yet (the Lang Belta meetups have fallen off in frequency due to scheduling difficulties), but as I understand it, the sasa/keng difference is like the savoir/croire difference in French. Savoir/sasa are used for intellectual knowledge; croire/keng are used for more gut-level knowledge and certainty. According to this page, savoir is knowledge in general; croire is certainty without proof. Savoir is the opposite of ignorance; croire is the opposite of doubt.
Plus, Nick has told us that "It's good to meet you/know you" is "Fo keng to im gut", not "fo sasa to".
So in this scene, I think the reading should have been more of a gut-level "You KNOW him. You know him as a person and what he's capable of. To keng im!"
As I say, I haven't spoken to anybody involved with the show about this, and could be completely wrong. But given what we know about how creoles are parsimonious with vocabulary and tend not to have straight synonyms, it seems unlikely that there would be two words for "know" if there weren't an intended difference between them.
mwhybark: What is Alex talking about when he asks Amos, "Remember the XO on the Can? One minute he's plantin' daffodils and singin' chanteys and the next he's wavin' a six gun and..."
The Cant is the Canterbury, the ice-hauler they were on when the show started. As the slogans put it, "Remember the Cant!" or "Xalte ere gova da Cant!" The XO is the one who'd holed up in his quarters (singing "Daisy"), requiring Holden to go in after him. "We make it all this way, so far out into the darkness… why couldn't we have brought more light?"
Unicorn on the cob: Every time I see that little lump
mwhybark: Crap, you can see it?
Yep! Holden and Naomi in the airlock. Holden drunk-messaging home. And take a look at the scene at the end of S03E07 where Holden and Naomi are in the bunk together – it's very clear there.
posted by Lexica at 4:08 PM on June 4, 2018 [6 favorites]
je vous croyez, mes beltas. donde sta Piratu Singe, enh?
posted by mwhybark at 6:48 PM on June 4, 2018
posted by mwhybark at 6:48 PM on June 4, 2018
mes beltawallas?
not like the sprachen is belta, now mind
posted by mwhybark at 6:50 PM on June 4, 2018
not like the sprachen is belta, now mind
posted by mwhybark at 6:50 PM on June 4, 2018
tanget here: does that mean Nick is looking at like, Haitian Creole and (oh please oh please) Canadian Métis dialects, to the degree that the Métis is available to analysis? Oh man, that would be so great! Cara Gee, who plays Drummer, had a breakthrough role portraying a Métis person, and is of First Nations ancestry. There's just no way that her beautiful intensity in the role don't reflect her actor's joy at the shot she's been given.
Damn, what a show!
posted by mwhybark at 6:57 PM on June 4, 2018
Damn, what a show!
posted by mwhybark at 6:57 PM on June 4, 2018
Oh my goodness, if you haven't dug into how Nick created the language, you have some fun in store.
Here's a talk he did for Ars Technica. Here's a talk at the Berkeley Book Festival on the art of language invention. And here's a recent podcast interview in which he discusses (among other things) how creole-speakers shift the level at which they're speaking depending on who they're speaking to.
He drew from a lot of different languages for vocabulary and is pleased when people spot influences. I don't know whether there are any Métis-derived words included in it, but it'd be worth tweeting at him to ask.
posted by Lexica at 7:43 PM on June 4, 2018 [3 favorites]
Here's a talk he did for Ars Technica. Here's a talk at the Berkeley Book Festival on the art of language invention. And here's a recent podcast interview in which he discusses (among other things) how creole-speakers shift the level at which they're speaking depending on who they're speaking to.
He drew from a lot of different languages for vocabulary and is pleased when people spot influences. I don't know whether there are any Métis-derived words included in it, but it'd be worth tweeting at him to ask.
posted by Lexica at 7:43 PM on June 4, 2018 [3 favorites]
I've had casual interactions with you and PBZM here on the topic but don't know I'd ever reflectively pondered my own experiences of limnal and blended language headspace with comparison to Belta.
But o boy is it a thing in my life. I lived in Chile and Mexico for maybe a third of my early life and my parents are fluent in Spanish, and then I lived in a Francophone cultural area when I was about 15 and attended an immersion school. One of my best adolescent friends from high school moved to Haiti with his family before any of us had graduated high school. My wife and her family are Cuban. I mostly follow when my FIL inadvertently lapses into mostly-Cubano, but if I try to answer in Spanish, it comes out mostly as Espançais.
Trying to learn French in that immersion school was insane, because all that very-early exposure to Spanish meant I would dredge up forgotten Spanish vocabulary and conjugation patterns and misapply them to French. And that's an important part of what Belta seems to be. I would fricking love it if Nick somehow figured out how to work in some Native American grammar patterns applied to Francophone roots, or vice versa.
posted by mwhybark at 12:25 AM on June 5, 2018 [1 favorite]
But o boy is it a thing in my life. I lived in Chile and Mexico for maybe a third of my early life and my parents are fluent in Spanish, and then I lived in a Francophone cultural area when I was about 15 and attended an immersion school. One of my best adolescent friends from high school moved to Haiti with his family before any of us had graduated high school. My wife and her family are Cuban. I mostly follow when my FIL inadvertently lapses into mostly-Cubano, but if I try to answer in Spanish, it comes out mostly as Espançais.
Trying to learn French in that immersion school was insane, because all that very-early exposure to Spanish meant I would dredge up forgotten Spanish vocabulary and conjugation patterns and misapply them to French. And that's an important part of what Belta seems to be. I would fricking love it if Nick somehow figured out how to work in some Native American grammar patterns applied to Francophone roots, or vice versa.
posted by mwhybark at 12:25 AM on June 5, 2018 [1 favorite]
I just finally got around to watching the episode, and it was so good! Agree that any investigation into the source of the fake Holden video would've ruined the pacing of the episode and the HOLY CRAP WE ONLY GOT A MINUTE seat-of-your-pants climax. I was actively hating on the cameraman, wish him much ill as he's stroking out during the reverse burn. He'll probably survive it, and then Amos will go to town on him. (It looks to me like he's already had some idea who's behind the sabotage, with him checking out the chip cards.) Although narratively it's more dramatic if the cameraman (Cohen) dies from the g-forces and then the crew goes after Monica, but I'd rather not see her in that situation.
Also, I was excited last episode to see a Castor clone popping up here, and that Oliver Queen's baby momma has another life.
posted by numaner at 9:19 PM on June 5, 2018
Also, I was excited last episode to see a Castor clone popping up here, and that Oliver Queen's baby momma has another life.
posted by numaner at 9:19 PM on June 5, 2018
I'm wondering what the saboteurs' plan is, exactly. Obviously the UNN ship saboteur is working with the documentary crew - was the plan to get the Roci destroyed? Why? Discredit the Belters? Revenge? That would have killed the documentary crew in the process. I can't see that they'd expect any other result than someone firing missiles at the Roci, but at the same time it seems unlikely that their plan was "force the Roci to travel through the ring to escape death" (which only happened as a result of the Miller projection's conversation with Holden).
Also, what's with the UNN ship saboteur's Beast Mode? Is that proto-molecule tech? Is she a refined hybrid produced by another branch of Protogen?
posted by EndsOfInvention at 2:27 AM on June 6, 2018 [2 favorites]
Also, what's with the UNN ship saboteur's Beast Mode? Is that proto-molecule tech? Is she a refined hybrid produced by another branch of Protogen?
posted by EndsOfInvention at 2:27 AM on June 6, 2018 [2 favorites]
The beast mode thing reminded me of the Martian interrogation pills a bit. The proto hybrids didn't seem to have to spend time recovering afterwards, so I'd guess it's human tech.
posted by rhamphorhynchus at 5:31 AM on June 6, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by rhamphorhynchus at 5:31 AM on June 6, 2018 [4 favorites]
Also, I was excited last episode to see a Castor clone popping up here
Same. Lol. I was like "Dang, who is that space-cutie?" Very happy to see Ari Millen again. I hope his character sticks around.
posted by Kitty Stardust at 9:11 AM on June 6, 2018 [2 favorites]
Same. Lol. I was like "Dang, who is that space-cutie?" Very happy to see Ari Millen again. I hope his character sticks around.
posted by Kitty Stardust at 9:11 AM on June 6, 2018 [2 favorites]
I forget - did Monica ever say outright who was funding the documentary, or just that the documentary was providing the cash needed to keep the Roci flying?
And yeah, I'm sorta leaning towards the Martians trying to get a little back for what they perceive as the Roci's wrongs against the MCRN. But maybe Mao is still in play enough?
posted by Kyol at 1:45 PM on June 6, 2018
And yeah, I'm sorta leaning towards the Martians trying to get a little back for what they perceive as the Roci's wrongs against the MCRN. But maybe Mao is still in play enough?
posted by Kyol at 1:45 PM on June 6, 2018
It's implied that the crew knows of the company that's footing the bill, but we don't know the name. If the crew knows the name and doesn't have suspicions then it's probably irrelevant, or they're just oblivious to the true purpose of the company.
as to your last question: watch the next episode!!
posted by numaner at 10:36 PM on June 7, 2018
as to your last question: watch the next episode!!
posted by numaner at 10:36 PM on June 7, 2018
This show is so good! I am now at the point of absolutely ADORING Drummer, or as I prefer to call her, Captain Black Eye Makeup. Also a huge fan of Pastor Blonde Lesbian, it's good to see someone pushing morality on this show.
The one thing that bothered me this episode was the translated rock songs. This show's about 200 years in the future, so about as far from our music as Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, etc. Around 200 years ago (1820), Silent Night and All Hail the King were written. Do you really think our rock songs will be popular with kids in 200 years?
posted by medusa at 3:39 PM on December 27, 2020
The one thing that bothered me this episode was the translated rock songs. This show's about 200 years in the future, so about as far from our music as Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, etc. Around 200 years ago (1820), Silent Night and All Hail the King were written. Do you really think our rock songs will be popular with kids in 200 years?
posted by medusa at 3:39 PM on December 27, 2020
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It still annoys me to see heads lolled to the side in the acceleration chairs... pretty sure that would be some broken necks right there.
For some reason every time I see the Belta HUD saying SHOWXATING, I giggle. “Show us a thing!”
posted by sixswitch at 2:17 PM on May 31, 2018 [2 favorites]