Brooklyn Nine-Nine: He Said, She Said
March 1, 2019 7:27 AM - Season 6, Episode 8 - Subscribe
Jake and Amy investigate a workplace harassment and sexual assault case at a big financial firm; Holt is suspicious when his old nemesis "The Disco Strangler" dies.
One more one more thing: Beatriz and Fumero reflect on #MeToo episode: "Every woman shouldn't have a story, but unfortunately they do"
posted by Strange Interlude at 8:03 AM on March 1, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by Strange Interlude at 8:03 AM on March 1, 2019 [1 favorite]
I mean, no one was fooled by the Disco Strangler plot, right? Like, Jake could reasonably have gone down some weird spiral of "I don't care what the evidence says! I know he's still out there!" and been totally wrong, but Holt? Never.
At the same time, I liked (in that sort of "Jake realizes that everything is horrible and the world sucks" kind of way) how no one ever seriously put forth the thought that the guy didn't do what she said he did. Even the lawyer and the co-workers clearly knew that it had happened, things like it totally happened all the time, and it was just another thing in their office and their industry.
posted by Etrigan at 8:17 AM on March 1, 2019 [4 favorites]
At the same time, I liked (in that sort of "Jake realizes that everything is horrible and the world sucks" kind of way) how no one ever seriously put forth the thought that the guy didn't do what she said he did. Even the lawyer and the co-workers clearly knew that it had happened, things like it totally happened all the time, and it was just another thing in their office and their industry.
posted by Etrigan at 8:17 AM on March 1, 2019 [4 favorites]
This episode made me cry in a good way.
posted by ChuraChura at 9:26 AM on March 1, 2019
posted by ChuraChura at 9:26 AM on March 1, 2019
Stephanie Beatriz on how the episode came to life.
posted by ellieBOA at 11:47 AM on March 1, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by ellieBOA at 11:47 AM on March 1, 2019 [2 favorites]
This was a very strong episode. Amy explaining why she took the case to Jake, Terry and Charles fronting for Holt, Rosa and Amy talking about practicality, basically everything Holt said.
"That's a nice thought... for an IDIOT to have."
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 4:57 PM on March 1, 2019 [3 favorites]
"That's a nice thought... for an IDIOT to have."
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 4:57 PM on March 1, 2019 [3 favorites]
I was totally riveted and thinking it was a drama when Amy told that about her former mentor. Kind of also sheds a whole new light on her wanting Holt to be her mentor--he was gay so that wouldn't be an issue.
I'm with Rosa on this stuff--watching this poor woman's career fall hurt.
I thought it was a good episode, at least. And I always enjoy Jake's "oh god, men are horrible" reactions to this stuff.
posted by jenfullmoon at 5:42 PM on March 1, 2019 [3 favorites]
I'm with Rosa on this stuff--watching this poor woman's career fall hurt.
I thought it was a good episode, at least. And I always enjoy Jake's "oh god, men are horrible" reactions to this stuff.
posted by jenfullmoon at 5:42 PM on March 1, 2019 [3 favorites]
There was too much Jake in this episode about #metoo. The racial profiling episode didn't make this mistake nearly as badly, but this show has a number of missteps about gender that it has never quite fixed.
posted by jeather at 10:28 AM on March 2, 2019 [3 favorites]
posted by jeather at 10:28 AM on March 2, 2019 [3 favorites]
(There is Too Much Jake in any episode, really. They could kick him to the curb and I think the show would be better for it.)
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 11:37 AM on March 2, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 11:37 AM on March 2, 2019 [1 favorite]
I like Jake a lot more than a lot of folks like Jake, I think, but his role in this was to be aware of what he hasn't been paying attention to, believe the women without hesitation while they tell their stories, support Amy while she gets it done, and make things a little funnier than this sort of story easily could have been. This episode had two very "meta" bits of dialog (Holt telling Hitchcock "I don't think this is your week" and Jake saying, "I've settled on 'active listening.' I will no longer be interjecting") which were both perfect. I personally thought it helped that the A plot had a dude in it who was behaving correctly.
Also, from a straight-up story perspective, I don't think Amy's centerpiece scene if she's talking to Rosa, who not only would already be completely aware of the sort of things Amy had had to deal with in her career, but was also entrenched in another valid side of the argument. Also it would have robbed Beatriz the chance to really be behind the camera for that scene in her first time directing, which would suck. Amy could have had that scene with Holt, I suppose, if they'd gone with a different B plot, and that would have been powerful though very different (telling the story of her harassment by her first mentor to her current mentor, who is a gay man, though I trust that the show would have skirted any unfortunate undertones there) and also would have been a retread of sorts with "Moo Moo," in which Terry talking things through with the very pragmatic Holt was central to the dynamics of it.)
But anyway, I like Jake, and still feel like he doesn't need to be as central to every episode as he is. (Schur shows tend to do this, with Eleanor always having to be the lead in The Good Place, or Leslie in Parks & Rec. I realize this is technically Dan Goor's show more than Mike Schur's, but it's still extremely of the Schur model (which, yeah, if it ain't broke...) but I'm rambling. I thought Jake was put to good use here.
posted by Navelgazer at 2:37 PM on March 2, 2019 [10 favorites]
Also, from a straight-up story perspective, I don't think Amy's centerpiece scene if she's talking to Rosa, who not only would already be completely aware of the sort of things Amy had had to deal with in her career, but was also entrenched in another valid side of the argument. Also it would have robbed Beatriz the chance to really be behind the camera for that scene in her first time directing, which would suck. Amy could have had that scene with Holt, I suppose, if they'd gone with a different B plot, and that would have been powerful though very different (telling the story of her harassment by her first mentor to her current mentor, who is a gay man, though I trust that the show would have skirted any unfortunate undertones there) and also would have been a retread of sorts with "Moo Moo," in which Terry talking things through with the very pragmatic Holt was central to the dynamics of it.)
But anyway, I like Jake, and still feel like he doesn't need to be as central to every episode as he is. (Schur shows tend to do this, with Eleanor always having to be the lead in The Good Place, or Leslie in Parks & Rec. I realize this is technically Dan Goor's show more than Mike Schur's, but it's still extremely of the Schur model (which, yeah, if it ain't broke...) but I'm rambling. I thought Jake was put to good use here.
posted by Navelgazer at 2:37 PM on March 2, 2019 [10 favorites]
I get why this was his role -- he could have had that role, but less of it. I get that Beatriz directed this, but with Peretti off the show, they are down to two women and six men, and having Rosa be mostly absent was not a good look for me. And, yes, I am sick of all the plots hanging around Jake, how upset Jake is when he finds out about Amy's past, Jake Jake Jake. He's not as interesting a character as the show thinks he is; he could get some b-plots sometimes. I don't dislike Jake, but his overuse is certainly changing the arc of my feelings about him and the show as a whole.
posted by jeather at 3:36 PM on March 2, 2019 [3 favorites]
posted by jeather at 3:36 PM on March 2, 2019 [3 favorites]
Am I the only one who found this episode to be a bit... Very Special Episode? It really didn't do it for me. I don't know, sometimes comedy can veer into drama and it feels really natural and emotive, and this episode just.... didn't. I found it forced.
I guess I'd rather have it addressed longer term or something rather than This Episode Is About Sexism.
posted by stillnocturnal at 3:15 AM on March 3, 2019 [3 favorites]
I guess I'd rather have it addressed longer term or something rather than This Episode Is About Sexism.
posted by stillnocturnal at 3:15 AM on March 3, 2019 [3 favorites]
But anyway, I like Jake, and still feel like he doesn't need to be as central to every episode as he is. (Schur shows tend to do this, with Eleanor always having to be the lead in The Good Place, or Leslie in Parks & Rec.
That's what I've been saying!
I felt like they put Jake's asides in there to be like "here's how to respond if you're a man who doesn't know anything" and I just sort of ignored him. I appreciated Rosa explaining the downside to reporting and it felt accurate to me how things played out. In my experience, reporting stuff like this results in things being a tiny bit better... for all the other women who didn't actually make the report. Shout out to the ladies at my old job; I'm sincerely glad your work lives suck less even though mine went straight down the toilet. I don't want to leave the dudes out, so two giant middle fingers forever since y'all never gave a shit to begin with.
I thought it was funny that Beefer hates his real name, Steve.
this show has a number of missteps about gender that it has never quite fixed. I am very interested to hear more!
posted by Emmy Rae at 4:22 PM on March 3, 2019 [3 favorites]
That's what I've been saying!
I felt like they put Jake's asides in there to be like "here's how to respond if you're a man who doesn't know anything" and I just sort of ignored him. I appreciated Rosa explaining the downside to reporting and it felt accurate to me how things played out. In my experience, reporting stuff like this results in things being a tiny bit better... for all the other women who didn't actually make the report. Shout out to the ladies at my old job; I'm sincerely glad your work lives suck less even though mine went straight down the toilet. I don't want to leave the dudes out, so two giant middle fingers forever since y'all never gave a shit to begin with.
I thought it was funny that Beefer hates his real name, Steve.
this show has a number of missteps about gender that it has never quite fixed. I am very interested to hear more!
posted by Emmy Rae at 4:22 PM on March 3, 2019 [3 favorites]
with Peretti off the show, they are down to two women and six men
That is a good point that I had not thought of!
It did feel a bit Very Special Episode, but I forgave them mainly on the strength of Holt attempting to argue with the strangler and Charles telling him it was pathetic.
posted by Emmy Rae at 4:26 PM on March 3, 2019
That is a good point that I had not thought of!
It did feel a bit Very Special Episode, but I forgave them mainly on the strength of Holt attempting to argue with the strangler and Charles telling him it was pathetic.
posted by Emmy Rae at 4:26 PM on March 3, 2019
I thought it was funny that Beefer hates his real name, Steve.
Most guys I've known that go by Steve were pretty...problematic. Including this one, I guess. I think we have some kind of "bad Steve karma" in my gene pool though :P
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:17 PM on March 3, 2019
Most guys I've known that go by Steve were pretty...problematic. Including this one, I guess. I think we have some kind of "bad Steve karma" in my gene pool though :P
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:17 PM on March 3, 2019
The main issues I had with the way they dealt with sexism were
- the Rosa/Charles crap from season 1 -- I don't think it was properly dealt with, even when they had him apologise. I don't remember the details of the resolution, because I won't rewatch because it annoyed me that much. (It further annoyed me when Rosa came out last year and Charles was really shitty.
- "title of your sex tape", which was never played as something Amy liked and in any case was never appropriate. Really the entire S1 Jake/Amy relationship was pretty gross, and I get part of the arc of the show was him being a better person, but none of the arc was him owning up to his past.
posted by jeather at 12:12 PM on March 4, 2019 [2 favorites]
- the Rosa/Charles crap from season 1 -- I don't think it was properly dealt with, even when they had him apologise. I don't remember the details of the resolution, because I won't rewatch because it annoyed me that much. (It further annoyed me when Rosa came out last year and Charles was really shitty.
- "title of your sex tape", which was never played as something Amy liked and in any case was never appropriate. Really the entire S1 Jake/Amy relationship was pretty gross, and I get part of the arc of the show was him being a better person, but none of the arc was him owning up to his past.
posted by jeather at 12:12 PM on March 4, 2019 [2 favorites]
I thought it was funny that Beefer hates his real name, Steve.
When the capital's S, it is followed by a T -- and it's probably me
And the tones are grouped in clusters
Most guys I've known that go by Steve were pretty...problematic.
Steven Morrissey has certainly been problematic.
posted by juiceCake at 3:15 PM on March 4, 2019 [1 favorite]
When the capital's S, it is followed by a T -- and it's probably me
And the tones are grouped in clusters
Most guys I've known that go by Steve were pretty...problematic.
Steven Morrissey has certainly been problematic.
posted by juiceCake at 3:15 PM on March 4, 2019 [1 favorite]
the entire S1 Jake/Amy relationship was pretty gross
I was talking about this with a friend this morning, and we both thought it would've been great in this episode for Amy to gently call Jake out on his S1 behavior toward her, followed by an exchange like:
JAKE: “Ames, I am SO sorry that I did that to you and made you feel that way.”
AMY: [looks forgivingly at Jake] “...Title of your sex tape.”
posted by D.Billy at 7:42 PM on March 4, 2019 [16 favorites]
I was talking about this with a friend this morning, and we both thought it would've been great in this episode for Amy to gently call Jake out on his S1 behavior toward her, followed by an exchange like:
JAKE: “Ames, I am SO sorry that I did that to you and made you feel that way.”
AMY: [looks forgivingly at Jake] “...Title of your sex tape.”
posted by D.Billy at 7:42 PM on March 4, 2019 [16 favorites]
It further annoyed me when Rosa came out last year and Charles was really shitty.
I fully don't expect jeather to respond to this 20 months later, but I'm curious in what way Charles was shitty w/r/t Rosa's coming out. I remember him pestering her to tell him about the "hunk" she was dating, and then her coming out to the whole squad the next episode because she couldn't trust Charles to keep a secret, but both of those are basically just Charles being a weird, excited, eternal little kid. Was there anything particularly shitty specific to her coming out to him that I missed?
posted by Navelgazer at 12:27 PM on December 13, 2020
I fully don't expect jeather to respond to this 20 months later, but I'm curious in what way Charles was shitty w/r/t Rosa's coming out. I remember him pestering her to tell him about the "hunk" she was dating, and then her coming out to the whole squad the next episode because she couldn't trust Charles to keep a secret, but both of those are basically just Charles being a weird, excited, eternal little kid. Was there anything particularly shitty specific to her coming out to him that I missed?
posted by Navelgazer at 12:27 PM on December 13, 2020
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But she's not going to be the only one: Melissa Fumero is also directing an episode that will air in May. The women of the Nine-Nine are stepping up!
posted by Strange Interlude at 8:00 AM on March 1, 2019 [12 favorites]