The Wire: Time after Time
November 25, 2014 9:56 AM - Season 3, Episode 1 - Subscribe
"Don't matter how many times you get burnt, you just keep doin' the same." - Bodie
Season 3 moves the focus back to Barksdale's gang. Highlights include a gang meeting conforming to Robert's Rules of Order and the introduction of Avon's former soldier Cutty (aka Tyreese from Walking Dead).
Season 3 moves the focus back to Barksdale's gang. Highlights include a gang meeting conforming to Robert's Rules of Order and the introduction of Avon's former soldier Cutty (aka Tyreese from Walking Dead).
Also, can I just point out that these threads are like the show itself? Everybody agrees there needs to be more, and then when it airs there's just nobody out there.
posted by rocketman at 5:18 PM on November 25, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by rocketman at 5:18 PM on November 25, 2014 [2 favorites]
Are we doing these as a rewatch or a first viewing? Before I put my foot in my mouth, which I think I did in season 1.
posted by nubs at 5:37 PM on November 25, 2014
posted by nubs at 5:37 PM on November 25, 2014
It's just such a dense show, there's a lot to think about. I actually blazed through all of season 3 a week or so ago and looking at the Wikipedia page to refresh my memory, I am surprised how much happens in each episode. I was highly amused that Stringer is so insistent on acting like a real businessman that he enforces Robert's Rules of Order for a gang meeting. I think this is where we first get a sense of how Stringer's leadership style differs from Avon -- Stringer is interested primarily in running a business and making money, and Avon is in not just for the money but also because selling drugs is basically a way of life for him.
(Also, nubs, for me personally this is a first watch because I've only seen through season 3, but the existing Wire thread was a re-watch so we should probably continue that).
posted by Librarypt at 5:38 PM on November 25, 2014
(Also, nubs, for me personally this is a first watch because I've only seen through season 3, but the existing Wire thread was a re-watch so we should probably continue that).
posted by Librarypt at 5:38 PM on November 25, 2014
Yay, more Wire threads! Season 3 is great, it's probably the most "sequelly" of all the seasons, in that it will bring to a close of a lot of stories that have been running for a while. Starting with the loss of the towers is a very interesting way to start, although we never did actually go into the towers themselves...
We get an introduction to Marlo here. There's no doubt Marlo is a dick, although really I'm not sure he's any worse than the other gangsters. And finally we get Carcetti, who seems, at this point at least, to be somewhat on the side of the angels.
posted by Cannon Fodder at 12:26 AM on November 26, 2014
We get an introduction to Marlo here. There's no doubt Marlo is a dick, although really I'm not sure he's any worse than the other gangsters. And finally we get Carcetti, who seems, at this point at least, to be somewhat on the side of the angels.
posted by Cannon Fodder at 12:26 AM on November 26, 2014
Marlo is terrifying. Easily the most terrifying character in the series for me. I recently sought out some other stuff that actor has been in to watch because I wanted to see if he was terrifying in everything. (He isn't.)
I don't know if this is common knowledge, but the guy who plays the Deacon actually ran his own drug organization for years in Baltimore. Interesting that they chose to cast him as a spiritual leader when in reality it sounds like he was a pretty dangerous dude.
posted by something something at 7:06 AM on November 26, 2014 [2 favorites]
I don't know if this is common knowledge, but the guy who plays the Deacon actually ran his own drug organization for years in Baltimore. Interesting that they chose to cast him as a spiritual leader when in reality it sounds like he was a pretty dangerous dude.
posted by something something at 7:06 AM on November 26, 2014 [2 favorites]
I don't know if this is common knowledge, but the guy who plays the Deacon actually ran his own drug organization for years in Baltimore.
Wasn't the character of Avon Barksdale modeled after him? For sure, a scary dude. Still, he's got MAD charisma, and there's something so real about the character he plays. No doubt there's a lot of himself in his performance.
"Y'all know you ain't got no pants?"
posted by rocketman at 7:43 AM on November 26, 2014 [1 favorite]
Wasn't the character of Avon Barksdale modeled after him? For sure, a scary dude. Still, he's got MAD charisma, and there's something so real about the character he plays. No doubt there's a lot of himself in his performance.
"Y'all know you ain't got no pants?"
posted by rocketman at 7:43 AM on November 26, 2014 [1 favorite]
Jamie Hector also made a very brief appearance in Ghost Dog.
posted by juiceCake at 8:05 AM on November 26, 2014
posted by juiceCake at 8:05 AM on November 26, 2014
The opening epsidoe so nicely sets up this season - it's all going to be about change...and yet, everything stays the same:
Bodie: Look, they gonna tear this building down. They gonna build some new shit. But people? They don't give a fuck about people.
That conversation degenerates into what appears to be a non-sequitur discussion about Poot getting STDs, and we intercut with Royce's speech.
Royce: Now mistakes have been made. And we will learn from those mistakes. Reform is not just a watchword with my administration, but a philosophy.
and right after that, cutback to the Bodie/Poot conversation continuing:
Bodie: Shit, man, no matter how many times you get burnt, man, you just keep on doing the same. Nigga do not learn.
Towards the end of the episode:
McNulty: You don't look at what you did before, you do the same shit all over again.
And McNulty, after dumping the Barksdale boxes all over the table, leaves. Someone else can clean up the mess - McNulty is off on his high horse again, unable to see the consequences or fallout on others.
And Herc so nicely echoes the words of Slim Charles and Poot about territory - about not looking like a punk-ass bitch on it, while Bunny and Stringer have their eyes set so much higher...
posted by nubs at 9:44 AM on November 26, 2014 [3 favorites]
Bodie: Look, they gonna tear this building down. They gonna build some new shit. But people? They don't give a fuck about people.
That conversation degenerates into what appears to be a non-sequitur discussion about Poot getting STDs, and we intercut with Royce's speech.
Royce: Now mistakes have been made. And we will learn from those mistakes. Reform is not just a watchword with my administration, but a philosophy.
and right after that, cutback to the Bodie/Poot conversation continuing:
Bodie: Shit, man, no matter how many times you get burnt, man, you just keep on doing the same. Nigga do not learn.
Towards the end of the episode:
McNulty: You don't look at what you did before, you do the same shit all over again.
And McNulty, after dumping the Barksdale boxes all over the table, leaves. Someone else can clean up the mess - McNulty is off on his high horse again, unable to see the consequences or fallout on others.
And Herc so nicely echoes the words of Slim Charles and Poot about territory - about not looking like a punk-ass bitch on it, while Bunny and Stringer have their eyes set so much higher...
posted by nubs at 9:44 AM on November 26, 2014 [3 favorites]
Easily the most terrifying character in the series for me.
He was for me on the first watch, but the more I see, the more I am terrified by Herc.
posted by rocketman at 10:14 AM on November 26, 2014 [7 favorites]
He was for me on the first watch, but the more I see, the more I am terrified by Herc.
posted by rocketman at 10:14 AM on November 26, 2014 [7 favorites]
I don't know if this is common knowledge, but the guy who plays the Deacon actually ran his own drug organization for years in Baltimore.
Wow, I did not know that. Interesting casting decision.
it's all going to be about change...and yet, everything stays the same
My husband pointed out a super obvious thing I somehow didn't notice--the opening song echoes this theme as well. The actual song is different, but the melody and the words are always the same. Everything changes but everything stays the same.
Marlo is terrifying. Easily the most terrifying character in the series for me.
I have only seen through the end of season 3, but so far I disagree with this point. I am sure Marlo probably does something more terrible later on in the show that I haven't gotten to yet, but at this point I think Brother Mouzone is the most terrifying character. He actually reminds me quite a bit of Gustavo Fring from Breaking Bad, to the point I was wondering if they modeled the Breaking Bad character after Brother Mouzone. They are both quiet, calm, dignified, feared men who have absolutely no qualms with gunning people down.
He was for me on the first watch, but the more I see, the more I am terrified by Herc.
Fucking Herc. He is definitely scary also, mostly because it seems a large proportion of cops is made up of guys identical to him.
posted by Librarypt at 11:09 AM on November 26, 2014
Wow, I did not know that. Interesting casting decision.
it's all going to be about change...and yet, everything stays the same
My husband pointed out a super obvious thing I somehow didn't notice--the opening song echoes this theme as well. The actual song is different, but the melody and the words are always the same. Everything changes but everything stays the same.
Marlo is terrifying. Easily the most terrifying character in the series for me.
I have only seen through the end of season 3, but so far I disagree with this point. I am sure Marlo probably does something more terrible later on in the show that I haven't gotten to yet, but at this point I think Brother Mouzone is the most terrifying character. He actually reminds me quite a bit of Gustavo Fring from Breaking Bad, to the point I was wondering if they modeled the Breaking Bad character after Brother Mouzone. They are both quiet, calm, dignified, feared men who have absolutely no qualms with gunning people down.
He was for me on the first watch, but the more I see, the more I am terrified by Herc.
Fucking Herc. He is definitely scary also, mostly because it seems a large proportion of cops is made up of guys identical to him.
posted by Librarypt at 11:09 AM on November 26, 2014
The actual song is different, but the melody and the words are always the same. Everything changes but everything stays the same.
Same song every season, but a different performer. Which very much echoes the overall theme of the series - the players may change, but the game goes on.
And Herc...Well, let's just say this essay (SPOILER warning - covers events from the entire five seasons of the Wire) is an interesting take on Herc - The Life and Times of Fuzzy Dunlop: Herc and the Modern Urban Crime Environment (First line: "Detective (later Sergeant) Thomas “Herc” Hauk (portrayed by actor Dominick Lombardozzi) is, perversely, the greatest criminal investigator in David Simon’s Baltimore.")
I have a couple of other notes, but they are things I noted in this episode that touch on developments in S4 and S5, so I will just shut my mouth.
posted by nubs at 3:49 PM on November 26, 2014 [2 favorites]
Same song every season, but a different performer. Which very much echoes the overall theme of the series - the players may change, but the game goes on.
And Herc...Well, let's just say this essay (SPOILER warning - covers events from the entire five seasons of the Wire) is an interesting take on Herc - The Life and Times of Fuzzy Dunlop: Herc and the Modern Urban Crime Environment (First line: "Detective (later Sergeant) Thomas “Herc” Hauk (portrayed by actor Dominick Lombardozzi) is, perversely, the greatest criminal investigator in David Simon’s Baltimore.")
I have a couple of other notes, but they are things I noted in this episode that touch on developments in S4 and S5, so I will just shut my mouth.
posted by nubs at 3:49 PM on November 26, 2014 [2 favorites]
Thanks for doing this.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 5:29 PM on December 7, 2014
posted by the man of twists and turns at 5:29 PM on December 7, 2014
Herc is like a character from Catch-22: Hilarious as a comic critique of the institutional problems inherent in the police, and then scarier and scarier the more you repeat the process, pulling back the layers and seeing the consequences.
Mouzone is like someone brought in from a different series altogether - unflappable, indelible, un-fuck-with-able. Not just smart, but proudly smart in a way that shows different values from the corner boys (like, Wallace was a sharp kid, and Dee tried to push him towards that, but Dee was the only voice in the Pit proclaiming those values, and Dee himself basically had to whisper them for fear of being overheard) and not just educated in what would work on the street or for the game, but broadly curious about the world. We see a bit of this with Omar and Bubbs as well - players deep in the game who see enough of the world outside it to learn some things on their own time - but none of them make it their identity like Mouzone does. And yeah, if he's after you, you're probably a dead man, but he's probably NOT after you, and he's imminently reasonable. Any one of us could literally walk up to Mouzone and have a friendly conversation about current events and not feel threatened in any way other than intellectually.
Marlo, however, is just as dangerous as Mouzone in the physical sense, and doesn't care who you are doesn't care if you live or die, is disinterested in anything other than "winning" for what that means for him. He is to stare into the abyss. He is terrifying.
posted by Navelgazer at 11:41 AM on April 24, 2021
Mouzone is like someone brought in from a different series altogether - unflappable, indelible, un-fuck-with-able. Not just smart, but proudly smart in a way that shows different values from the corner boys (like, Wallace was a sharp kid, and Dee tried to push him towards that, but Dee was the only voice in the Pit proclaiming those values, and Dee himself basically had to whisper them for fear of being overheard) and not just educated in what would work on the street or for the game, but broadly curious about the world. We see a bit of this with Omar and Bubbs as well - players deep in the game who see enough of the world outside it to learn some things on their own time - but none of them make it their identity like Mouzone does. And yeah, if he's after you, you're probably a dead man, but he's probably NOT after you, and he's imminently reasonable. Any one of us could literally walk up to Mouzone and have a friendly conversation about current events and not feel threatened in any way other than intellectually.
Marlo, however, is just as dangerous as Mouzone in the physical sense, and doesn't care who you are doesn't care if you live or die, is disinterested in anything other than "winning" for what that means for him. He is to stare into the abyss. He is terrifying.
posted by Navelgazer at 11:41 AM on April 24, 2021
Marlo, and sadly a couple other folks I've met in real life, remind me of the "starfish" aliens in the Peter Watts book. In brief, they can't really conceptualize their own mind, or another mind. Any communication they receive that isn't useful to them is an attack, because non-useful information has wasted their time. They can predict behaviour because of great intelligence, but other people are basically ambulatory furniture to them.
posted by LegallyBread at 4:06 PM on March 18
posted by LegallyBread at 4:06 PM on March 18
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I know it's sort of an obvious metaphor, but the demolition of the projects and the dust and smoke scattering and covering everyone is amazing foreshadowing.
I love Cutty, but my favorite introduction this season is the Deacon.
posted by rocketman at 12:08 PM on November 25, 2014