The Umbrella Academy: The Umbrella Academy season two (full season)
August 2, 2020 6:45 AM - Season 2 (Full Season) - Subscribe
Based on the comic book by Gerard Way and Gabriel Bá, the Hargreeves are back... in 1963, and have brought the apocalypse with them.
So many good moments, large and small. But, speaking of small ... holy crap when Five was talking to Vanya and he was looking *down* at her.
posted by Mogur at 9:08 AM on August 2, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by Mogur at 9:08 AM on August 2, 2020 [1 favorite]
Halfway through. I kind of hate-watched the first season, but this seems...really very good?
posted by grandiloquiet at 2:01 PM on August 2, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by grandiloquiet at 2:01 PM on August 2, 2020 [2 favorites]
I did end up liking this season better than the last one, grandiloquiet.
posted by LionIndex at 2:27 PM on August 2, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by LionIndex at 2:27 PM on August 2, 2020 [2 favorites]
I binged it over the weekend, and agree that it was much better than the first one.
This post has gone up as season 1 for some reason.
posted by Marticus at 4:48 PM on August 2, 2020
This post has gone up as season 1 for some reason.
posted by Marticus at 4:48 PM on August 2, 2020
Just started watching. Enjoyed the first season as a bit of candied popcorn.
Feels like that once having established the characters, they've really tightened them all up. In particular I thought Number 5 was annoying little prick, but I really like the new depths.
My first question is...
This is comics/ tv show time travel, bile. Time Travel.
;)
In my personal philosophy/ philoridiculum, it depends on the propagation speed of time. I could submit apologia of varying quality depending on which kind of time travel you/ the show subscribes to. No, I don't believe time travel as popularized is physically possible.
posted by porpoise at 4:56 PM on August 2, 2020 [4 favorites]
Feels like that once having established the characters, they've really tightened them all up. In particular I thought Number 5 was annoying little prick, but I really like the new depths.
My first question is...
This is comics/ tv show time travel, bile. Time Travel.
;)
In my personal philosophy/ philoridiculum, it depends on the propagation speed of time. I could submit apologia of varying quality depending on which kind of time travel you/ the show subscribes to. No, I don't believe time travel as popularized is physically possible.
posted by porpoise at 4:56 PM on August 2, 2020 [4 favorites]
There’s at least one scene in the first season where you can see that Aidan Gallagher is taller than Ellen Page by at least a few inches, but yeah - I think he’s gotten taller.
posted by bile and syntax at 5:38 PM on August 2, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by bile and syntax at 5:38 PM on August 2, 2020 [2 favorites]
Finished it and I really did like it! I'm predisposed to like time travel, and especially time travel gone awry, but I enjoyed this season from the start. All the new characters were really entertaining (omg Lila!), and the existing characters had storylines that weren't just progressing off the strength of them being absolute morons. I loved that they reminded us of how recently the first season occurred -- and that we got to see the contrast between the business-minded, S1 Five and the 2-weeks-later S2 Five who couldn't stop talking about how much he missed his family.
posted by grandiloquiet at 7:43 PM on August 2, 2020 [7 favorites]
posted by grandiloquiet at 7:43 PM on August 2, 2020 [7 favorites]
It is my sincere hope that in the third season, Vanya isn’t the bomb anymore.
posted by wabbittwax at 7:47 PM on August 2, 2020 [21 favorites]
posted by wabbittwax at 7:47 PM on August 2, 2020 [21 favorites]
Yeah I try not to think about the time travel stuff to much. I do admit that Kennedy's assassination reminded me of Dr Who in that seemed like a "fixed moment in time" that could not be averted without dangerous consequences.
I really enjoyed this season-my one caveat is the Swedes weren't as much fun as Hazel and Cha-Cha. But, of course that meant more time spent on developing our mains.
I doubt Vanya will be the bomb next season as the final battle shows her being able to control her powers to defend her family as well as help Jonah. But of course now she's up against her father and the sparrow academy so who knows.
Also I LOVED the Handler's costume design this season. I mean that "inaugural" gown was just fantastic.
posted by miss-lapin at 11:11 PM on August 2, 2020 [3 favorites]
I really enjoyed this season-my one caveat is the Swedes weren't as much fun as Hazel and Cha-Cha. But, of course that meant more time spent on developing our mains.
I doubt Vanya will be the bomb next season as the final battle shows her being able to control her powers to defend her family as well as help Jonah. But of course now she's up against her father and the sparrow academy so who knows.
Also I LOVED the Handler's costume design this season. I mean that "inaugural" gown was just fantastic.
posted by miss-lapin at 11:11 PM on August 2, 2020 [3 favorites]
I tend to think of it less as "Vanya is the bomb" and more "people horribly mistreating someone who has tremendous power tends to go badly". This time I'd say the bomb was homophobia and torture; last time it was the lasting impacts of child abuse and Vanya just wanting to be able to be seen for once, acknowledged for what she can do, and having her family literally crash her first concert as first chair.
Either way though - it's a total comic book trope to have the danger come from the most powerful of them getting separated from the group and made vulnerable.
So I guess what I'm saying is that I'm fine with Vanya being the bomb, if they can keep writing it this well. I'd be fine with her getting a break from that too.
I would kind of like to see Five get a break from seeing the rest of them die horribly over and over, just because that's some horrific PTSD, but I think we're likely to keep getting that as part of how his powers work.
posted by bile and syntax at 6:33 AM on August 3, 2020 [4 favorites]
Either way though - it's a total comic book trope to have the danger come from the most powerful of them getting separated from the group and made vulnerable.
So I guess what I'm saying is that I'm fine with Vanya being the bomb, if they can keep writing it this well. I'd be fine with her getting a break from that too.
I would kind of like to see Five get a break from seeing the rest of them die horribly over and over, just because that's some horrific PTSD, but I think we're likely to keep getting that as part of how his powers work.
posted by bile and syntax at 6:33 AM on August 3, 2020 [4 favorites]
It just occurred to me if Reginald and Ben are alive in the new timeline, maybe Hazel and Cha-Cha are too! Maybe I can finally find out who Cha-Cha is calling!
posted by miss-lapin at 10:06 PM on August 3, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by miss-lapin at 10:06 PM on August 3, 2020 [1 favorite]
It just occurred to me if Reginald and Ben are alive in the new timeline, maybe Hazel and Cha-Cha are too!
And Pogo! I want Pogo back!
posted by palmcorder_yajna at 1:34 AM on August 4, 2020 [1 favorite]
NuBen's moustache, btw, is The Worst.
posted by Mogur at 7:25 AM on August 4, 2020 [6 favorites]
posted by Mogur at 7:25 AM on August 4, 2020 [6 favorites]
It just occurred to me if Reginald and Ben are alive in the new timeline, maybe Hazel and Cha-Cha are too!
... if we're in a new timeline where none of this happened, does that mean the Handler is back too? I mean, she may be dead in 1963, but that's post-2019 here...
posted by bile and syntax at 10:41 AM on August 4, 2020 [1 favorite]
... if we're in a new timeline where none of this happened, does that mean the Handler is back too? I mean, she may be dead in 1963, but that's post-2019 here...
posted by bile and syntax at 10:41 AM on August 4, 2020 [1 favorite]
My feeling is that they went to great lengths to demonstrate that the Commission won't be a problem going forward - The Handler is dead, along with the Commission's whole army of assassins. So, do they somehow come back in the 2019 that they jump to at the end? I'd presume not, because it seems like that 2019 is a future version of the timeline in which the Commission was destroyed, along with leaving a certain person in 1963 imbued with superpowers whose favorite toy happens to be a wooden sparrow, hence the Sparrow Academy. But that's just my guess.
posted by LionIndex at 9:10 PM on August 4, 2020 [9 favorites]
posted by LionIndex at 9:10 PM on August 4, 2020 [9 favorites]
I think the Commission exist outside of the the timelines, in their own, as it were, metatimeline - the way we are seeing the story is in accordance with that.
This season was a lot more fun than the first, and I was impressed by the how many things got not just tied up but fitted in - a lot of the time in these stories there's an episode I call Clean-up, where extraneous characters are killed off and all the others are put into position for the finale. While (thinking back) that did happen here, it wasn't so obvious, and everyone's progress towards the denouement seemed quite natural. All the characters got their time and their story, and (more importantly) a comprehensible motivation to act (or not act). And the performances were all great, I thought - especially Aidan Gallagher: given that the character is supposed to be Mike Ehrmentraut in the body of Ferris Bueller, he carries it off extraordinarily well given that he is, himself, sixteen years old.
It would be nice to have a third season when logistical allowances can be made in our own apocalypse.
posted by Grangousier at 1:51 AM on August 5, 2020 [7 favorites]
This season was a lot more fun than the first, and I was impressed by the how many things got not just tied up but fitted in - a lot of the time in these stories there's an episode I call Clean-up, where extraneous characters are killed off and all the others are put into position for the finale. While (thinking back) that did happen here, it wasn't so obvious, and everyone's progress towards the denouement seemed quite natural. All the characters got their time and their story, and (more importantly) a comprehensible motivation to act (or not act). And the performances were all great, I thought - especially Aidan Gallagher: given that the character is supposed to be Mike Ehrmentraut in the body of Ferris Bueller, he carries it off extraordinarily well given that he is, himself, sixteen years old.
It would be nice to have a third season when logistical allowances can be made in our own apocalypse.
posted by Grangousier at 1:51 AM on August 5, 2020 [7 favorites]
Thanks LionIndex, I sometimes have trouble mentally mapping out the time travel implications. And am easily caught up by what-ifs, as my comic book collection demonstrates.
posted by bile and syntax at 7:28 AM on August 5, 2020
posted by bile and syntax at 7:28 AM on August 5, 2020
That makes sense LionIndex. I was just hoping to finally find out who Cha-Cha was calling because for whatever reason that kind of thing haunts me. I definitely didn't make the connection between the toy and the Sparrow Academy although it was clear there would be consequences for what happened.
posted by miss-lapin at 9:48 AM on August 5, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by miss-lapin at 9:48 AM on August 5, 2020 [3 favorites]
I think the Commission exist outside of the the timelines, in their own, as it were, metatimeline - the way we are seeing the story is in accordance with that.
Same, I like to think they're like the time cops in Rick & Morty.
posted by ftm at 1:50 PM on August 5, 2020 [4 favorites]
Same, I like to think they're like the time cops in Rick & Morty.
posted by ftm at 1:50 PM on August 5, 2020 [4 favorites]
I always assumed the commission operated out of the distant prehistoric past. Maybe that's just because it's what I would do. It would make it a lot easier to make changes to the ‘future’ timeline without messing up your own operation.
posted by thedward at 8:56 AM on August 6, 2020
posted by thedward at 8:56 AM on August 6, 2020
My real question about the Commission is, what else is in that office park? In the first season the Handler talks about Hazel and Cha-Cha bringing unwanted attention onto the Commission, and I really want to know who they answer to and what other organizations are in their peer group.
posted by bile and syntax at 10:19 AM on August 6, 2020 [5 favorites]
posted by bile and syntax at 10:19 AM on August 6, 2020 [5 favorites]
Wolfram & Hart satellite office.
posted by ftm at 12:38 PM on August 6, 2020 [8 favorites]
posted by ftm at 12:38 PM on August 6, 2020 [8 favorites]
Klaus continues to be hilarious with a side of tragic.
"That's my brand: I'm sexy trash."
posted by DirtyOldTown at 5:51 AM on August 7, 2020 [9 favorites]
"That's my brand: I'm sexy trash."
posted by DirtyOldTown at 5:51 AM on August 7, 2020 [9 favorites]
No spoilers because I haven't even read the books, but I notice the third comic book series is called "Hotel Oblivion" while the upcoming fourth is "Sparrow Academy." Judging by the finale, looks like they may be skipping whatever was in Hotel Oblivion to go to the storyline for the new books.
Though who knows when any of that might happ n anyway, both because it's not clear Way has finished writing them and because production may be delayed indefinitely because of [gestures broadly at everything.]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:10 AM on August 7, 2020
Though who knows when any of that might happ n anyway, both because it's not clear Way has finished writing them and because production may be delayed indefinitely because of [gestures broadly at everything.]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:10 AM on August 7, 2020
I read the first 2 series of the comics when they came out but haven't re-read them since so my memories are fairly hazy on this but I would say both seasons have been more like loose interpretations of the comics than actual adaptations so reading the comics isn't going to spoil the tv show and vice versa.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 9:49 AM on August 7, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 9:49 AM on August 7, 2020 [2 favorites]
I’ve read all three collections of comics and I’d agree that it’s a loose interpretation. Very loose.
posted by bile and syntax at 4:33 PM on August 7, 2020
posted by bile and syntax at 4:33 PM on August 7, 2020
It was nice to see Vanya getting a brief respite from being Vanya—with amnesia she could be who she’s meant to be, unencumbered by the trauma and low self esteem her father inflicted on her. It was much more thrilling to see her have a real connection to Sissy than the unfortunate manufactured connection she had to Harold Jenkins.
Using Peter Schilling’s “Major Tom” for the Pogo sequence was unfair. I am of an age where that song provokes major emotional reactions from me even if it’s not synced to the action onscreen!
posted by ejs at 1:32 AM on August 9, 2020 [5 favorites]
Using Peter Schilling’s “Major Tom” for the Pogo sequence was unfair. I am of an age where that song provokes major emotional reactions from me even if it’s not synced to the action onscreen!
posted by ejs at 1:32 AM on August 9, 2020 [5 favorites]
I didn't mind Vanya being the bomb in both seasons, because the show framed it as a natural consequence of attempts to control and neutralize her - first, by emotional and medical abuse, and then by outright force. (I've been mulling over that parallel with Doom Patrol, where a character becomes more dangerous by being systematically denied the opportunity to learn the nature and use of their power.) I did worry about how they'd resolve it, so it was gratifying that the solution was for Ben to validate Vanya's trauma and the wrongness of what was done to her.
I was not expecting to like this show as much as I do, but now I'm really looking forward to the next season.
posted by Fish, fish, are you doing your duty? at 11:23 AM on August 9, 2020 [2 favorites]
I was not expecting to like this show as much as I do, but now I'm really looking forward to the next season.
posted by Fish, fish, are you doing your duty? at 11:23 AM on August 9, 2020 [2 favorites]
Spoiler alert: There are 43 sparrows hidden throughout Season 2 of @UmbrellaAcad. Bet you can't tell us where they all are.
posted by ejs at 11:32 AM on August 9, 2020
posted by ejs at 11:32 AM on August 9, 2020
I also liked this better than season 1, which I found pretty uneven. Glad Ben will be back in some form.
I loooved the opener of episode 1, seeing everyone fighting together and kicking ass at their highest level. But I don't really understand--so I guess the idea was that originally, without five's help they eventually found each other anyway, and were all in Dallas as the apocalypse started--but why did that start? It seems like the 6 of them are all operating as a team, even Vanya who had only been there for around a month at that point, and she's got her powers in control, if not her memory. Was Vanya supposed to somehow still have started the apocalypse in that go-round? Kennedy was alive, so I guess she again somehow blew up the FBI building as Kennedy was passing, scaring him into starting WWIII. But then how did everyone regroup and start kicking ass, last time it took Ben's possession and death to bring Vanya back from the brink. Maybe we're just supposed to enjoy the intro and not worry about it too much.
But I was really excited for the idea that they had all built up their powers while waiting so long for Five to show up (I envisioned at *least* one training montage), and in doing so had become so powerful that they collectively trigger the apocalypse. But I'm not sure that makes sense.
I do hope they drop the Commission for season 3, I don't expect a superheroes-who-time-travel show to make a tremendous amount of sense, but the more time they spent on Commission stuff the harder it is to take anything seriously.
Diego's Antonio Banderas hair was indeed a great look for him, though Klaus had also done well in the past.
posted by skewed at 1:56 PM on August 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
I loooved the opener of episode 1, seeing everyone fighting together and kicking ass at their highest level. But I don't really understand--so I guess the idea was that originally, without five's help they eventually found each other anyway, and were all in Dallas as the apocalypse started--but why did that start? It seems like the 6 of them are all operating as a team, even Vanya who had only been there for around a month at that point, and she's got her powers in control, if not her memory. Was Vanya supposed to somehow still have started the apocalypse in that go-round? Kennedy was alive, so I guess she again somehow blew up the FBI building as Kennedy was passing, scaring him into starting WWIII. But then how did everyone regroup and start kicking ass, last time it took Ben's possession and death to bring Vanya back from the brink. Maybe we're just supposed to enjoy the intro and not worry about it too much.
But I was really excited for the idea that they had all built up their powers while waiting so long for Five to show up (I envisioned at *least* one training montage), and in doing so had become so powerful that they collectively trigger the apocalypse. But I'm not sure that makes sense.
I do hope they drop the Commission for season 3, I don't expect a superheroes-who-time-travel show to make a tremendous amount of sense, but the more time they spent on Commission stuff the harder it is to take anything seriously.
Diego's Antonio Banderas hair was indeed a great look for him, though Klaus had also done well in the past.
posted by skewed at 1:56 PM on August 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
I laughed out loud when, during the various arrival sequences where the others each landed in various graceless and clumsy ways, Diego landed on his feet, doing the Superhero Landing. Because of course he did.
posted by Mogur at 6:45 PM on August 9, 2020 [10 favorites]
posted by Mogur at 6:45 PM on August 9, 2020 [10 favorites]
I really loved this season and love it even more because they used Butthole Surfers - Pepper, one of my favorite hits from the 90s.
posted by LizBoBiz at 4:29 AM on August 10, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by LizBoBiz at 4:29 AM on August 10, 2020 [3 favorites]
Just finished a binge over the weekend. I thought it was visually stunning, with so many wonderful cinematic touches.
I also loved the soundtrack, with Golden Brown being a standout moment.
It's always great to get beyond the origin story and have the characters interact with some depth. It's just that all of these characters are just so dreadfully awful to each other, I guess that made the payoff of them getting in the car with Vonya extra special after they left her hanging.
I can't imagine that they would leave a field full of briefcases behind, but where, in time, would they be safe? Unless the new commission gathered them all after our heroes jumped to the present....
posted by OHenryPacey at 8:55 AM on August 10, 2020
I also loved the soundtrack, with Golden Brown being a standout moment.
It's always great to get beyond the origin story and have the characters interact with some depth. It's just that all of these characters are just so dreadfully awful to each other, I guess that made the payoff of them getting in the car with Vonya extra special after they left her hanging.
I can't imagine that they would leave a field full of briefcases behind, but where, in time, would they be safe? Unless the new commission gathered them all after our heroes jumped to the present....
posted by OHenryPacey at 8:55 AM on August 10, 2020
I gotta say, it's a bold choice to go with unknown covers of popular songs. That Swedish cover of Hello was *chef's kiss*.
posted by numaner at 7:55 PM on August 10, 2020 [7 favorites]
posted by numaner at 7:55 PM on August 10, 2020 [7 favorites]
That one confused me because we had subtitles on so it told me it was a cover of Hello but I was expecting the Lionel Richie song and it sounded nothing like that. My wife set me straight when I voiced my confusion.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 2:08 PM on August 11, 2020
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 2:08 PM on August 11, 2020
Klaus Wrote A Pop Song For The Umbrella Academy (YouTube video, season 2 scenes songified into a music video by Netflix)
posted by oh yeah! at 7:21 PM on August 11, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by oh yeah! at 7:21 PM on August 11, 2020 [2 favorites]
Maybe it's because I've seen so many of the many interviews he's done so I'm more aware of his acting choices, but Luther seems more purely comedic this season and I love it even while a scene like when everyone disappears when he's hugging Alison has a beautiful stark simplicity in the emotion conveyed.
This show, like Sabrina, is incredibly watchable even though I find moments in this season hard to want to watch in a fun way. While important and necessary, I can't choose to watch racist assault recreationally and while I love Pogo, any ape distress is profoundly upsetting.
I like the idea of the Klaus sexy trash side project but I definitely like him better bouncing off his siblings and I feel super basic for thinking Diego is the hotness now while he still says stupid stuff like how he made something "his bitch," but what can you do, when you give a guy an excellent girlfriend who will not put up with any of his bullshit? He's gotta step up.
Also, god help me, the menacing portent of a fart fight is a simple delight.
So, of course I loved Lila and very much Sissy, and while I thought the very on the nose song picks would get annoying, the only thing that really bothered me for being predictable and unnecessary was the Klaus jumps off the wagon scene. I really liked Elliot in part because that actor never gets this type of role that I've seen and I love that this show seems to really be about making interesting choices. It seems a shame it hasn't already been assured another season but I'm hoping it has more to do with current world affairs and not Netflix tendency toward squirreliness.
posted by provoliminal at 9:36 PM on August 11, 2020 [1 favorite]
This show, like Sabrina, is incredibly watchable even though I find moments in this season hard to want to watch in a fun way. While important and necessary, I can't choose to watch racist assault recreationally and while I love Pogo, any ape distress is profoundly upsetting.
I like the idea of the Klaus sexy trash side project but I definitely like him better bouncing off his siblings and I feel super basic for thinking Diego is the hotness now while he still says stupid stuff like how he made something "his bitch," but what can you do, when you give a guy an excellent girlfriend who will not put up with any of his bullshit? He's gotta step up.
Also, god help me, the menacing portent of a fart fight is a simple delight.
So, of course I loved Lila and very much Sissy, and while I thought the very on the nose song picks would get annoying, the only thing that really bothered me for being predictable and unnecessary was the Klaus jumps off the wagon scene. I really liked Elliot in part because that actor never gets this type of role that I've seen and I love that this show seems to really be about making interesting choices. It seems a shame it hasn't already been assured another season but I'm hoping it has more to do with current world affairs and not Netflix tendency toward squirreliness.
posted by provoliminal at 9:36 PM on August 11, 2020 [1 favorite]
Oh, also, I have to mention Colm Feore is excellent, although part of him will always be Froghammer to me.
posted by provoliminal at 9:44 PM on August 11, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by provoliminal at 9:44 PM on August 11, 2020 [1 favorite]
it's a bold choice to go with unknown covers of popular songs
I think it is an incredibly effective choice as a way of subtly underscoring that the show takes place a couple of universes over from our own. Similar to how
posted by gauche at 11:41 AM on August 12, 2020
I think it is an incredibly effective choice as a way of subtly underscoring that the show takes place a couple of universes over from our own. Similar to how
minor spoilers for Fringe
in Fringe's red universe, Eric Stoltz played Marty McFly.posted by gauche at 11:41 AM on August 12, 2020
Agree with Colm Feore's performance, provoliminal. Without Reginald Hargreeves' distant and dismissive attitude towards the kids, there really is no show.
Also, I read the soundtrack came first and they wrote scenes based on it. It really comes through.
posted by cowlick at 2:37 PM on August 13, 2020
Also, I read the soundtrack came first and they wrote scenes based on it. It really comes through.
posted by cowlick at 2:37 PM on August 13, 2020
But I don't really understand--so I guess the idea was that originally, without five's help they eventually found each other anyway, and were all in Dallas as the apocalypse started--but why did that start?
Vanya starts it, again, when she blows up the FBI building and Kennedy was shot. The US thinks it was the Russians and that starts WWIII.
posted by cooker girl at 9:51 AM on August 14, 2020
Vanya starts it, again, when she blows up the FBI building and Kennedy was shot. The US thinks it was the Russians and that starts WWIII.
posted by cooker girl at 9:51 AM on August 14, 2020
Vanya starts it, again, when she blows up the FBI building and Kennedy was shot. The US thinks it was the Russians and that starts WWIII.
For the main season 2 timeline, yeah it's reaction to the FBI building explosion that starts the apocalypse. But I'm referring to the timeline that we see before the title card in season 2 episode 1: in that timeline, it's not clear to me how we get to the apocalypse. Why would the FBI building have blown up? Vanya was only there because she was caught by police while trying to escape with Sissy and Harlan to the future, something she was only trying to do because Five was there to take them to the future. Without Five, there's no clear reason for her to end up at FBI headquarters.
They sort of say "you all being here in the past is what is ultimately causing the apocalypse", so maybe we are just supposed to infer that no matter what, either Vanya or the group collectively will trigger the apocalypse. But I would have liked a clearer mechanism for the scenario in the intro to come about. Especially since the team seems to be operating with purpose, as a unit, and at the height of their powers, even Vanya. She presumably must have her memory back to be with the team and kicking ass with them, but how? When she gets her memory back in the main timeline, she loses control and it takes Ben's self-sacrifice to bring her back. So how did that come about?
It's superheroes-who-time-travel-and-dance-a-lot, so I don't mind a fairly hand-wavey explanation, but I'd appreciate it if they at least did that hand-waving.
posted by skewed at 10:54 AM on August 14, 2020
For the main season 2 timeline, yeah it's reaction to the FBI building explosion that starts the apocalypse. But I'm referring to the timeline that we see before the title card in season 2 episode 1: in that timeline, it's not clear to me how we get to the apocalypse. Why would the FBI building have blown up? Vanya was only there because she was caught by police while trying to escape with Sissy and Harlan to the future, something she was only trying to do because Five was there to take them to the future. Without Five, there's no clear reason for her to end up at FBI headquarters.
They sort of say "you all being here in the past is what is ultimately causing the apocalypse", so maybe we are just supposed to infer that no matter what, either Vanya or the group collectively will trigger the apocalypse. But I would have liked a clearer mechanism for the scenario in the intro to come about. Especially since the team seems to be operating with purpose, as a unit, and at the height of their powers, even Vanya. She presumably must have her memory back to be with the team and kicking ass with them, but how? When she gets her memory back in the main timeline, she loses control and it takes Ben's self-sacrifice to bring her back. So how did that come about?
It's superheroes-who-time-travel-and-dance-a-lot, so I don't mind a fairly hand-wavey explanation, but I'd appreciate it if they at least did that hand-waving.
posted by skewed at 10:54 AM on August 14, 2020
Yeah, considering they'd been in the past for years in some cases it was kind of strange that Five showing up (or not) a couple of days before the apocalypse would have such an affect on their powers. Especially since besides Vanya they'd all been training with their powers since they were kids so you'd think they'd already be pretty good at using them.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 11:06 AM on August 14, 2020
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 11:06 AM on August 14, 2020
I grew up in the city where most of Season 2 (and a lot of Season 1) was shot so it was strange to see so many familiar buildings and locations. I used to go to the Avon theatre as a kid, and the Irish bar where Luther and Five meet Old Five is where I learned to drink...that place had no issues serving a bunch of obviously underage teenagers back in the '80s.
I think the timeline logic, if you can call it that, is that Vanya would have eventually used her powers and ended up in the FBI torture room even without meeting Five, triggering the explosion and subsequent war in both timelines.
posted by rocket88 at 9:47 PM on August 14, 2020 [5 favorites]
I think the timeline logic, if you can call it that, is that Vanya would have eventually used her powers and ended up in the FBI torture room even without meeting Five, triggering the explosion and subsequent war in both timelines.
posted by rocket88 at 9:47 PM on August 14, 2020 [5 favorites]
Yeah, I can buy that it was inevitable, they lay the groundwork for the idea that their presence was going to trigger an apocalypse one way or the other--but how do they go full on Umbrella Academy!, with even Vanya fighting commies with the group? And since when can Luther jump 200 feet in the air and absorb rocket grenades?
My point is this, for that kind of development of their powers and teamwork, in just one season, we needed a montage. We are owed a montage.
posted by skewed at 7:55 AM on August 15, 2020 [1 favorite]
My point is this, for that kind of development of their powers and teamwork, in just one season, we needed a montage. We are owed a montage.
posted by skewed at 7:55 AM on August 15, 2020 [1 favorite]
Ok, if we're going off what we know from the show:
Sissy's husband goes to Jack Ruby's bar.
Klaus is planning to go back to Dallas to find Dave.
Luther has periodically checked the alley and presumably returned to Dallas for that reason.
Alison has been planning public action that will involve public notice and clash with authorities.
Diego has been in the paper, been actively stalking Oswald, and already plotted escape.
Had Five not shown up, Diego would have probably successfully escaped and Luther would have seen Vanya and had her address. Alison and Klaus met without Five and after seeing Vanya, Luther may have thought to ask Ruby about Alison. With this template, they still could all have met up over a week before what we see in the opening, realizing what they all have in common centers on JFK in Dallas and we have no idea what would have happened with the handler or Lila without Five being there since the commission seems to not know of anything happening beyond sending the original Five who never intended to finish the job and sending the Swedes after Vanya.
So, let's say Luther connects to Vanya, the Swedes go after Vanya, Vanya survives and continues to connect back to Luther who as already asked after Alison who as already met Klaus. Diego is in the public record or at large but Alison and Luther could probably figure what he'd be planning and the Swedes may have tried to go after others in the meantime so they know they are being targeted as a group and Vanya disappearing after making a huge burnt circle may have caught the attention of authorities. Unknown woman named Vanya made an explosion and subsequently disappeared in advance of the known occasion of the president's visit.
Ta da.
posted by provoliminal at 5:14 PM on August 15, 2020 [4 favorites]
Sissy's husband goes to Jack Ruby's bar.
Klaus is planning to go back to Dallas to find Dave.
Luther has periodically checked the alley and presumably returned to Dallas for that reason.
Alison has been planning public action that will involve public notice and clash with authorities.
Diego has been in the paper, been actively stalking Oswald, and already plotted escape.
Had Five not shown up, Diego would have probably successfully escaped and Luther would have seen Vanya and had her address. Alison and Klaus met without Five and after seeing Vanya, Luther may have thought to ask Ruby about Alison. With this template, they still could all have met up over a week before what we see in the opening, realizing what they all have in common centers on JFK in Dallas and we have no idea what would have happened with the handler or Lila without Five being there since the commission seems to not know of anything happening beyond sending the original Five who never intended to finish the job and sending the Swedes after Vanya.
So, let's say Luther connects to Vanya, the Swedes go after Vanya, Vanya survives and continues to connect back to Luther who as already asked after Alison who as already met Klaus. Diego is in the public record or at large but Alison and Luther could probably figure what he'd be planning and the Swedes may have tried to go after others in the meantime so they know they are being targeted as a group and Vanya disappearing after making a huge burnt circle may have caught the attention of authorities. Unknown woman named Vanya made an explosion and subsequently disappeared in advance of the known occasion of the president's visit.
Ta da.
posted by provoliminal at 5:14 PM on August 15, 2020 [4 favorites]
I am very confused by Klaus' powers. To recap:
• Klaus can summon people from the afterlife, but only when sober. When he's sober he tends to be spontaneously haunted by dead people.
• His dead brother Ben is just always there, regardless of Klaus' sobriety. It's suggested this is because Ben chose not to "go into the light".
• Ben seems to be bound to Klaus rather than any particular timeline (otherwise he would not exist in 1963, since he had not yet been born). In fact, Ben's spirit ages along with Klaus, though his outfit stays the same.
• Yet Ben can go places Klaus can't, such as inside Vanya's mind (?), which somehow kills him (??), even though he's already dead. It's implied that Ben is now super-double dead and therefore permanently unsummonable.
• Klaus can't summon people that don't want to be summoned, like his father (though he can travel to the afterlife to meet him). Whereas dead people who want to summoned, such as Hazel and Cha-Cha's victims, just show up unannounced.
• Klaus can also apparently make dead strangers appear and fight for him on command, though he couldn't force Ben to do things he didn't want to do.
Does that cover everything? What I really want to know is how the afterlife works in a universe with multiple timelines. If someone dies, then the timeline changes so that they don't die, does their previously-dead spirit cease to exist? Or are there different versions of a person's spirit for each timeline? Could Klaus have summoned dead Dave's spirit in 1963, even though he hadn't died yet? Could he meet dead Reginald in the afterlife again in nu-2019, where he is still alive? What happens to someone who dies in the Commission, which seemingly exists independent of any timeline? Where the hell is Old Number Five now that 2019 has been rewritten? What versions (if any) of Hazel and Cha-Cha still exist?
posted by dephlogisticated at 12:15 PM on August 16, 2020 [3 favorites]
• Klaus can summon people from the afterlife, but only when sober. When he's sober he tends to be spontaneously haunted by dead people.
• His dead brother Ben is just always there, regardless of Klaus' sobriety. It's suggested this is because Ben chose not to "go into the light".
• Ben seems to be bound to Klaus rather than any particular timeline (otherwise he would not exist in 1963, since he had not yet been born). In fact, Ben's spirit ages along with Klaus, though his outfit stays the same.
• Yet Ben can go places Klaus can't, such as inside Vanya's mind (?), which somehow kills him (??), even though he's already dead. It's implied that Ben is now super-double dead and therefore permanently unsummonable.
• Klaus can't summon people that don't want to be summoned, like his father (though he can travel to the afterlife to meet him). Whereas dead people who want to summoned, such as Hazel and Cha-Cha's victims, just show up unannounced.
• Klaus can also apparently make dead strangers appear and fight for him on command, though he couldn't force Ben to do things he didn't want to do.
Does that cover everything? What I really want to know is how the afterlife works in a universe with multiple timelines. If someone dies, then the timeline changes so that they don't die, does their previously-dead spirit cease to exist? Or are there different versions of a person's spirit for each timeline? Could Klaus have summoned dead Dave's spirit in 1963, even though he hadn't died yet? Could he meet dead Reginald in the afterlife again in nu-2019, where he is still alive? What happens to someone who dies in the Commission, which seemingly exists independent of any timeline? Where the hell is Old Number Five now that 2019 has been rewritten? What versions (if any) of Hazel and Cha-Cha still exist?
posted by dephlogisticated at 12:15 PM on August 16, 2020 [3 favorites]
And since when can Luther jump 200 feet in the air and absorb rocket grenades?
We do see Luther jumping that high in the first season, when the kids stop the bank robbers: he jumps up to the top of the building and goes in through the skylight.
I'm guessing the imperviousness to rocket grenades came with the serum that turned him into a giant ape, because he was definitely vulnerable to harm before that or he wouldn't have been injected with it.
posted by bile and syntax at 6:34 AM on August 17, 2020
We do see Luther jumping that high in the first season, when the kids stop the bank robbers: he jumps up to the top of the building and goes in through the skylight.
I'm guessing the imperviousness to rocket grenades came with the serum that turned him into a giant ape, because he was definitely vulnerable to harm before that or he wouldn't have been injected with it.
posted by bile and syntax at 6:34 AM on August 17, 2020
I have a theory implied by this season that Luther can become more impervious if he wills himself so. Data that support my theory:
1. When he deliberately jumps in front of a rocket grenade he is unharmed (and not even staggered)
2. When he is surprised by the Handler and her machine gun he is riddled full of holes and killed
3. When he is sad about Allison getting married, he deliberately allows some chump in a fighting match to beat the bejeezus out of him
4. In both seasons, he is cut by Diego's knives when he's surprised—season 1 when they're fighting at dad's funeral, and season 2 when he's in Diego's boiler room and Diego just throws the knife in
Ergo, he is impervious as he wants to be, when he has warning.
posted by ejs at 6:44 PM on August 19, 2020 [3 favorites]
1. When he deliberately jumps in front of a rocket grenade he is unharmed (and not even staggered)
2. When he is surprised by the Handler and her machine gun he is riddled full of holes and killed
3. When he is sad about Allison getting married, he deliberately allows some chump in a fighting match to beat the bejeezus out of him
4. In both seasons, he is cut by Diego's knives when he's surprised—season 1 when they're fighting at dad's funeral, and season 2 when he's in Diego's boiler room and Diego just throws the knife in
Ergo, he is impervious as he wants to be, when he has warning.
posted by ejs at 6:44 PM on August 19, 2020 [3 favorites]
I like this theory, since assigning "number 1" status to someone who punches real hard against a teleporter or a mindbender or a dude with eldritch horrors in his intestinal tract is pretty absurd. (Okay, a large part of the numbering system just seemed to be Reginald's psychological warfare against his children. But...punches hard? Seriously?)
posted by grandiloquiet at 9:20 PM on August 19, 2020
posted by grandiloquiet at 9:20 PM on August 19, 2020
I'd assumed Hargreeves had numbered them in the order he found them (though I have no evidence for that, and could probably go back to season one, episode one, scene one to check, though probably not because it's simpler that way). It seemed to fit for me that Luther liked the idea of being Number One, while at the same time being oblivious to the fact it's essentially arbitrary. Though, as I say, that's something I made up for myself without even realising it, so.
posted by Grangousier at 12:09 AM on August 20, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by Grangousier at 12:09 AM on August 20, 2020 [1 favorite]
Apparently in the comic it's established that Hargreeves numbered the children in terms of usefulness. I think it's mentioned in the show as well but I can't specifically recall when. The numbering doesn't track with the strength of their powers but makes sense if part of the assessment includes how easily they are manipulated. An uncontrollable child with God-like powers is worse than useless, they're actively dangerous, whereas a generic bottom-tier action hero who's dumb and loyal and psychologically stable can be quite effectively wielded.
posted by dephlogisticated at 8:31 PM on August 20, 2020 [5 favorites]
posted by dephlogisticated at 8:31 PM on August 20, 2020 [5 favorites]
I don’t recall the numbering system being revealed in the comics, and it’s not order of acquisition because in the comics there is a set of twins among the siblings and they don’t have sequential numbers.
posted by bile and syntax at 5:27 PM on August 23, 2020
posted by bile and syntax at 5:27 PM on August 23, 2020
Unrelated to my last post, my two biggest issues with this season are:
1. The near-total lack of Texas accents, where nearly everyone should have one, and
2. The Handler's bullet-wound scar is way too well-healed for three months. At three months, the scar should be larger, just barely healed over, and have a significant red halo bruise around it. Yes, the Commission has incredibly advanced technology, but the scar looks more than ten years old.
posted by bile and syntax at 6:48 AM on August 24, 2020 [1 favorite]
1. The near-total lack of Texas accents, where nearly everyone should have one, and
2. The Handler's bullet-wound scar is way too well-healed for three months. At three months, the scar should be larger, just barely healed over, and have a significant red halo bruise around it. Yes, the Commission has incredibly advanced technology, but the scar looks more than ten years old.
posted by bile and syntax at 6:48 AM on August 24, 2020 [1 favorite]
I was so struck by the mural in A Light Supper's "Southland Life" building, I went looking and found an Umbrella Academy Filming Locations Guide.
posted by Iris Gambol at 12:17 AM on September 26, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by Iris Gambol at 12:17 AM on September 26, 2020 [1 favorite]
Netflix Has Renewed Umbrella Academy For a Third Season (filming slated to start in February in Toronto, pandemic conditions permitting, I suppose)
posted by oh yeah! at 10:31 AM on November 11, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by oh yeah! at 10:31 AM on November 11, 2020 [4 favorites]
Wow, Season 2 was unbelievably better than Season 1. What happened?
It kind of felt like they spent all the time they were lost apart from each other in the 60's getting therapy. I suppose in Diego's case that was literally true.
posted by kyrademon at 11:47 AM on February 26, 2021 [1 favorite]
It kind of felt like they spent all the time they were lost apart from each other in the 60's getting therapy. I suppose in Diego's case that was literally true.
posted by kyrademon at 11:47 AM on February 26, 2021 [1 favorite]
Just watched through the whole thing again, and I'm even more enthusiastic than I was - the first season fits better with the second than I thought originally and I'm looking forward to season three. It struck me that I quite like Vanya's endearing personality quirk of occasionally almost destroying the world, because Vanya is, as a person, one of the least world-destroying individuals one could think of.
posted by Grangousier at 8:52 AM on June 15, 2021
posted by Grangousier at 8:52 AM on June 15, 2021
whose favorite toy happens to be a wooden sparrow, hence the Sparrow Academy
Except that it's a bluebird. Maybe bluebirds are sparrows in bird!2019
And the Commission has moved on to fighting the TVA
posted by eustatic at 3:14 AM on July 13, 2021
Except that it's a bluebird. Maybe bluebirds are sparrows in bird!2019
And the Commission has moved on to fighting the TVA
posted by eustatic at 3:14 AM on July 13, 2021
This season also suggests a possible answer (or answers) to why the technology in 2019 is basically frozen in the pre-microchip era: the dark-glasses wearing member of Reginald's cabal mentions that Hargreeves has been giving them advanced technology for a while. So, perhaps:
1) By giving humans limited access to his tech, he short-circuited our own technological development. New tech just appears one day, so the drive to do actual R&D disappears.
and/or
2) After the Kennedy assassination, he stopped sharing his tech, and the slowed rate of home-grown development never got back up to speed.
and/or
3) Hargreeves is/was intentionally hobbling human technological development for reasons still unknown.
The stunted technological development also serves as a nice metaphor for the similarly stunted emotional development of all the main characters.
posted by Saxon Kane at 1:02 PM on July 23, 2022
1) By giving humans limited access to his tech, he short-circuited our own technological development. New tech just appears one day, so the drive to do actual R&D disappears.
and/or
2) After the Kennedy assassination, he stopped sharing his tech, and the slowed rate of home-grown development never got back up to speed.
and/or
3) Hargreeves is/was intentionally hobbling human technological development for reasons still unknown.
The stunted technological development also serves as a nice metaphor for the similarly stunted emotional development of all the main characters.
posted by Saxon Kane at 1:02 PM on July 23, 2022
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posted by bile and syntax at 6:46 AM on August 2, 2020 [4 favorites]