Loki: The Nexus Event
June 30, 2021 2:44 AM - Season 1, Episode 4 - Subscribe
Frayed nerves and paranoia infiltrate the TVA as Mobius and Hunter B-15 search for Loki and Sylvie.
There is a post-credit sequence.
There is a post-credit sequence.
For all the world building and the TVA being the "greatest power in the universe", very little of narrative consequence ever happens in this show.
posted by crossoverman at 2:55 AM on June 30, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by crossoverman at 2:55 AM on June 30, 2021 [5 favorites]
I cannot remember the last time I shipped something as hard as I ship Loki and Sylvie.
posted by dogheart at 3:01 AM on June 30, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by dogheart at 3:01 AM on June 30, 2021 [4 favorites]
There is a post-credit sequence.
Cowards.
posted by andrewdoull at 3:27 AM on June 30, 2021 [4 favorites]
Cowards.
posted by andrewdoull at 3:27 AM on June 30, 2021 [4 favorites]
I thought that was the best episode by far, but jeez, the fight blocking is SO BAD.
I’m also curious why Jamie Alexander’s name was left off of the credits.
posted by 1970s Antihero at 3:57 AM on June 30, 2021 [10 favorites]
I’m also curious why Jamie Alexander’s name was left off of the credits.
posted by 1970s Antihero at 3:57 AM on June 30, 2021 [10 favorites]
All this could have been avoided if Mobius just used a coaster.
posted by fullerine at 4:30 AM on June 30, 2021 [10 favorites]
posted by fullerine at 4:30 AM on June 30, 2021 [10 favorites]
Yeah, best episode by far, the fight in front of the Wizard of Oz lizard guys was not great. It's odd; the fight blocking in Falcon&WS was quite good? I suppose you have to prioritize where your budget goes.
posted by Justinian at 4:41 AM on June 30, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Justinian at 4:41 AM on June 30, 2021 [1 favorite]
Should I know at a glance what era of Asgard we were looking at?
Looks like a Chronicom got caught at the door.
Ravenna was relatively unfazed by the "Timekeepers" being androids.
I thought Loki might have been realizing that *he’d* set up the TVA. There was some deception about the Timekeepers' rule, after all.
Alligator Loki, and Richard E. Grant in a comic book costume, were weird in a way I look forward to seeing more of. (But I was also a sucker for the Limbo in Animal Man, where characters who aren't being written about chill out, aware that they're fictional.)
posted by Pronoiac at 5:03 AM on June 30, 2021
Looks like a Chronicom got caught at the door.
Ravenna was relatively unfazed by the "Timekeepers" being androids.
I thought Loki might have been realizing that *he’d* set up the TVA. There was some deception about the Timekeepers' rule, after all.
Alligator Loki, and Richard E. Grant in a comic book costume, were weird in a way I look forward to seeing more of. (But I was also a sucker for the Limbo in Animal Man, where characters who aren't being written about chill out, aware that they're fictional.)
posted by Pronoiac at 5:03 AM on June 30, 2021
This episode did a really good job of validating the mostly quiet and character driven previous episode. Things can move quickly now that we have that foundation.
As to that ending, Owen Wilson said it best.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:21 AM on June 30, 2021 [7 favorites]
As to that ending, Owen Wilson said it best.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:21 AM on June 30, 2021 [7 favorites]
I loved this episode! And in case anyone else wondered what the end credits song was, the Guardian recap has Brenda Lee’s If You Love Me (Really Love Me).
posted by ellieBOA at 5:22 AM on June 30, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by ellieBOA at 5:22 AM on June 30, 2021 [1 favorite]
I feel like Loki and Sylvie are more like siblings and don't really ship them.
The opening flashback had Renslayer as the one who bought Kid Sylvie in.
I love any episode that makes me say WHAAAT as this one did.
Can't wait to get to know all the alternate Lokis.
posted by emjaybee at 5:51 AM on June 30, 2021 [6 favorites]
The opening flashback had Renslayer as the one who bought Kid Sylvie in.
I love any episode that makes me say WHAAAT as this one did.
Can't wait to get to know all the alternate Lokis.
posted by emjaybee at 5:51 AM on June 30, 2021 [6 favorites]
I feel like Loki and Sylvie are more like siblings and don't really ship them.
Same!
posted by ellieBOA at 5:55 AM on June 30, 2021 [13 favorites]
Same!
posted by ellieBOA at 5:55 AM on June 30, 2021 [13 favorites]
Good grief, Owen Wilson sold that horrified fuck-you monologue. And also his love of jet-skis.
posted by Mr. Excellent at 6:34 AM on June 30, 2021 [25 favorites]
posted by Mr. Excellent at 6:34 AM on June 30, 2021 [25 favorites]
"Why is it the two orphan demi-gods are such a pain in the ass?"
"Yet it was your idea to bring in another one."
So there are three, and our Loki is the third.
(Post-credits sequence notwithstanding.)
posted by Grangousier at 7:04 AM on June 30, 2021 [5 favorites]
"Yet it was your idea to bring in another one."
So there are three, and our Loki is the third.
(Post-credits sequence notwithstanding.)
posted by Grangousier at 7:04 AM on June 30, 2021 [5 favorites]
I feel like Loki and Sylvie are more like siblings and don't really ship them.
I am delighted that Lokis is falling for himself, lol.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:22 AM on June 30, 2021 [26 favorites]
I am delighted that Lokis is falling for himself, lol.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:22 AM on June 30, 2021 [26 favorites]
So deletion.. isn't, it seems!
posted by curious nu at 7:32 AM on June 30, 2021
posted by curious nu at 7:32 AM on June 30, 2021
It doesn't look like Ravonna knows that, though she seems to know everything else. Wheels within wheels.
Oh, and I was wondering whether postman was post-man (as in post-modern, or postscript), since we're heavily into the time-wimey.
posted by Grangousier at 7:36 AM on June 30, 2021 [1 favorite]
Oh, and I was wondering whether postman was post-man (as in post-modern, or postscript), since we're heavily into the time-wimey.
posted by Grangousier at 7:36 AM on June 30, 2021 [1 favorite]
I am delighted that Lokis is falling for himself, lol.
So perfect for the narcissist, and a nice shout out to mythological stories about mythological gods. :)
It might be a little hokey but I totally dig the your personal truth will set you free motif.
posted by warriorqueen at 8:18 AM on June 30, 2021 [3 favorites]
So perfect for the narcissist, and a nice shout out to mythological stories about mythological gods. :)
It might be a little hokey but I totally dig the your personal truth will set you free motif.
posted by warriorqueen at 8:18 AM on June 30, 2021 [3 favorites]
For reference at the end that was Classic Loki, Kid Loki and Boastful Loki. I have no information on the name of Lizard Loki at this time.
Waiting a week for Episode 5 is going to be almost physically painful.
posted by invisible_al at 9:09 AM on June 30, 2021 [1 favorite]
Waiting a week for Episode 5 is going to be almost physically painful.
posted by invisible_al at 9:09 AM on June 30, 2021 [1 favorite]
Alligator Loki. I hope he has a Cajun accent.
posted by emjaybee at 9:22 AM on June 30, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 9:22 AM on June 30, 2021 [5 favorites]
lokidile, surely
posted by emmling at 9:48 AM on June 30, 2021 [22 favorites]
posted by emmling at 9:48 AM on June 30, 2021 [22 favorites]
I'd suspected the pruning rods were really teleportation rods, though I'd figured that they just transported variants to the mind-wipe room for processing into good little bureaucrats and minutemen. I suppose they can be hijacked then. Perhaps Boastful Loki has access to the rainbow bridge in addition to secondhand Mjolnir and used it to interrupt the passage.
I think the backdrop of the post-credits scene was apocalyptic Marvel New York. I'm pretty sure one of the tilted skyscrapers is the wreckage of Avengers Tower.
I also read Loki/Sylvie as siblings, though I do think Loki was about to say he loved her. Given the trouble he had saying as much to Frigga, let alone Thor and Odin, a (sincere) loving brotherly hug would still be new territory for him.
I'm not sure there are three. I think Sylvie, due to tine loop weirdness, actually created her own origin by bombing the Sacred Timeline, which is why the TVA had not been able to pinpoint her before.
posted by Karmakaze at 10:48 AM on June 30, 2021 [2 favorites]
I think the backdrop of the post-credits scene was apocalyptic Marvel New York. I'm pretty sure one of the tilted skyscrapers is the wreckage of Avengers Tower.
I also read Loki/Sylvie as siblings, though I do think Loki was about to say he loved her. Given the trouble he had saying as much to Frigga, let alone Thor and Odin, a (sincere) loving brotherly hug would still be new territory for him.
I'm not sure there are three. I think Sylvie, due to tine loop weirdness, actually created her own origin by bombing the Sacred Timeline, which is why the TVA had not been able to pinpoint her before.
posted by Karmakaze at 10:48 AM on June 30, 2021 [2 favorites]
The Simpsons Will Cross Over with Marvel for Loki Short in July
Didn't see that coming.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:07 AM on June 30, 2021 [1 favorite]
Didn't see that coming.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:07 AM on June 30, 2021 [1 favorite]
Yeah, Loki and Sylvie come off as siblings to me as well. I suspect that the only love Loki may find by the end of this show is himself. Not in the variant-loving sense, but in the non-self loathing, actually understanding & accepting himself sense.
I'm hoping Lokidile is somehow related to Throg.
I'm hoping Hunter B-15 is OK and survives this. I'd love to see her adventuring around (and more) with Sylvie.
posted by Fiberoptic Zebroid and The Hypnagogic Jerks at 11:12 AM on June 30, 2021 [7 favorites]
I'm hoping Lokidile is somehow related to Throg.
I'm hoping Hunter B-15 is OK and survives this. I'd love to see her adventuring around (and more) with Sylvie.
posted by Fiberoptic Zebroid and The Hypnagogic Jerks at 11:12 AM on June 30, 2021 [7 favorites]
I'm not sure there are three.
I realise it seems like an odd hill for me to choose to die on, but at least it's not crowded - it just seems to me that there's been something odd about this all the way through - I said before (probably wrongly) that it seemed to me in ep 2 that Sylvie was somehow separate from the serial possessions immediately before her appearance (because she has to be in contact with the enchanted person, and even then it's not a possession); Then I noticed that up until her appearance the TVA were consistently referring to the Variant as "he". Sexist assumption on their part is the most likely explanation, of course, but at least Ravonna knew exactly who she was, but still carried on saying "he"; and then there was this bit of dialogue. It just seems to me that there's a Loki-variant-shaped hole in the show that we haven't seen filled with an actual Loki yet. I still accept that the most likely explanation is a combination of my eagerness for plot tricks that leads me to imagine them, and minor glitches in the film-making. And yet...
Oh, and I think the only person who could carry off that Vintage Loki costume with any gravitas is Richard E. Grant, so congrats to them on getting him.
posted by Grangousier at 11:59 AM on June 30, 2021 [7 favorites]
I realise it seems like an odd hill for me to choose to die on, but at least it's not crowded - it just seems to me that there's been something odd about this all the way through - I said before (probably wrongly) that it seemed to me in ep 2 that Sylvie was somehow separate from the serial possessions immediately before her appearance (because she has to be in contact with the enchanted person, and even then it's not a possession); Then I noticed that up until her appearance the TVA were consistently referring to the Variant as "he". Sexist assumption on their part is the most likely explanation, of course, but at least Ravonna knew exactly who she was, but still carried on saying "he"; and then there was this bit of dialogue. It just seems to me that there's a Loki-variant-shaped hole in the show that we haven't seen filled with an actual Loki yet. I still accept that the most likely explanation is a combination of my eagerness for plot tricks that leads me to imagine them, and minor glitches in the film-making. And yet...
Oh, and I think the only person who could carry off that Vintage Loki costume with any gravitas is Richard E. Grant, so congrats to them on getting him.
posted by Grangousier at 11:59 AM on June 30, 2021 [7 favorites]
Mobius mentioning vampires is totally a Blade setup.
posted by Pendragon at 12:44 PM on June 30, 2021 [8 favorites]
posted by Pendragon at 12:44 PM on June 30, 2021 [8 favorites]
Props to Hiddleston and Di Martino in their scenes together; the character development for Loki and Sylvie this episode was lovely to see. I'm also jumping aboard the not-shipping train, as romance feels a bit Route 1 and there seems to be more nuance to the relationship between these two than simple fancy. (Fingers crossed, anyway.)
I really enjoyed their letting Wunmi Mosaku's face carry the scene of her witnessing her life before. Curious to see where this character goes.
Absence of the Very Good Kitten* during the Sylvie pruning flashback is noted, and frowned upon.
Ah, Mobius. If the melt-sticks really are teleporters, maybe you're still jet-skiing out there somewhere.
Am I the only one wondering if Ravonna *is* the Timekeepers, in a Wizard of Oz woman-behind-the-curtain sort of way?
This episode gave the distinct vibe that she has a personal dislike of Sylvie that goes way beyond 'doing your job', and if Sylvie and Loki have the power to create the type of extreme event spike seen when they clasped hands on Lamentis-1 -- or if Karmakaze is correct and Sylvie created her own origin, which might also explain Ravonna's refusal to tell her what her nexus event was -- it would seem to suggest that at the least Ravonna has always known Sylvie is a bigger threat than the garden-variety variant. It may simply be that she's at a higher pay grade than Mobius, but bringing in a new Big Bad with two episodes left feels a bit rushed.
I am *so* looking forward to REG chomping scenery as Classic Loki. This is gonna be a long week.
*So if Casey doesn't know what a fish is, does the VGK's companion know what a kitten is, or is it just an adorable fluffy monster that was presumably also pruned from a timeline?
posted by myotahapea at 2:23 PM on June 30, 2021 [11 favorites]
I really enjoyed their letting Wunmi Mosaku's face carry the scene of her witnessing her life before. Curious to see where this character goes.
Absence of the Very Good Kitten* during the Sylvie pruning flashback is noted, and frowned upon.
Ah, Mobius. If the melt-sticks really are teleporters, maybe you're still jet-skiing out there somewhere.
Am I the only one wondering if Ravonna *is* the Timekeepers, in a Wizard of Oz woman-behind-the-curtain sort of way?
This episode gave the distinct vibe that she has a personal dislike of Sylvie that goes way beyond 'doing your job', and if Sylvie and Loki have the power to create the type of extreme event spike seen when they clasped hands on Lamentis-1 -- or if Karmakaze is correct and Sylvie created her own origin, which might also explain Ravonna's refusal to tell her what her nexus event was -- it would seem to suggest that at the least Ravonna has always known Sylvie is a bigger threat than the garden-variety variant. It may simply be that she's at a higher pay grade than Mobius, but bringing in a new Big Bad with two episodes left feels a bit rushed.
I am *so* looking forward to REG chomping scenery as Classic Loki. This is gonna be a long week.
*So if Casey doesn't know what a fish is, does the VGK's companion know what a kitten is, or is it just an adorable fluffy monster that was presumably also pruned from a timeline?
posted by myotahapea at 2:23 PM on June 30, 2021 [11 favorites]
Ruling over the sacred timeline is the Chuck E. Cheese birthday band.
posted by Gary at 3:06 PM on June 30, 2021 [24 favorites]
posted by Gary at 3:06 PM on June 30, 2021 [24 favorites]
What evil force with a ruthless obsession with control that puts a folksy veneer over their fascistic tyranny could mount such an impressive display of animatronic figurines? Could it be... The Walt Disney Corporation?
posted by Grangousier at 3:38 PM on June 30, 2021 [30 favorites]
posted by Grangousier at 3:38 PM on June 30, 2021 [30 favorites]
The satire is coming from inside the mouse!
posted by curious nu at 3:53 PM on June 30, 2021 [36 favorites]
posted by curious nu at 3:53 PM on June 30, 2021 [36 favorites]
They must have gotten Christopher Nolan to do the sound mix on the Time Keepers.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 4:12 PM on June 30, 2021 [32 favorites]
posted by paper chromatographologist at 4:12 PM on June 30, 2021 [32 favorites]
The Simpsons Will Cross Over with Marvel for Loki Short in July
Corporate synergy will be the death of us.
posted by crossoverman at 5:58 PM on June 30, 2021 [2 favorites]
Corporate synergy will be the death of us.
posted by crossoverman at 5:58 PM on June 30, 2021 [2 favorites]
Loved this episode so much—Loki's anger that he only has a few guards while Sylvie is heavily guarded might be one of my favorite things in the show.
Also I seem to recall the first volume of the soundtrack drops on Friday. I really dig the aesthetic of the show, though I am still waiting on my 400-page artbook with costuming and set designs.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 6:05 PM on June 30, 2021 [3 favorites]
Also I seem to recall the first volume of the soundtrack drops on Friday. I really dig the aesthetic of the show, though I am still waiting on my 400-page artbook with costuming and set designs.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 6:05 PM on June 30, 2021 [3 favorites]
I feel like no self-respecting Asgardian would ever allow himself to be called a “narcissist”, much less refer to himself as one. It’s such a dreadfully Olympian word.
posted by Parasite Unseen at 7:05 PM on June 30, 2021 [15 favorites]
posted by Parasite Unseen at 7:05 PM on June 30, 2021 [15 favorites]
Last thread I whined about Loki's (at the time) weak redemption arc in this show and whew boy they told me to go shove it didn't they.
posted by M Edward at 7:16 PM on June 30, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by M Edward at 7:16 PM on June 30, 2021 [4 favorites]
Lady Sif beating the crap out of him on loop was an ingenious fan-serv....form of torture by the TVA
posted by M Edward at 7:17 PM on June 30, 2021 [9 favorites]
posted by M Edward at 7:17 PM on June 30, 2021 [9 favorites]
What a satisfying episode! We get the Big Reveal many of us have been guessing at, that the TVA isn't what they seem. I like that it takes an assassination attempt for the actual reveal. I swear the specific imagery there, the android head falling off with wires sticking out, the other androids laughing robotically.. I think that's in a scene somewhere from some 60s something or another? The generic trope is as old as Wizard of Oz at least, but the specifics are very familiar.
I'm excited by the little reveal in the credits. Some more details on who is depicted. Note this article identifies the large bald man with the hammer as "Boastful Loki". But the hammer he's holding is sure screaming Thor, right? Some articles identified him as Thor from the image but apparently the show credits say it's a Loki. Anyway, mostly I'm enthralled by l'il Gator Loki and Classic Loki. It looks like they're going to be allowed to go a little weird. Gonna be hard to match Into the Spiderverse for multiverse hijinx but I'm here to see them try.
They must have gotten Christopher Nolan to do the sound mix on the Time Keepers
Or Mumbles the Clown, trying to talk through a latex mask. I went through the trouble of enabling subtitles just to see their dialog. It's entirely uninteresting.
posted by Nelson at 7:17 PM on June 30, 2021 [7 favorites]
I'm excited by the little reveal in the credits. Some more details on who is depicted. Note this article identifies the large bald man with the hammer as "Boastful Loki". But the hammer he's holding is sure screaming Thor, right? Some articles identified him as Thor from the image but apparently the show credits say it's a Loki. Anyway, mostly I'm enthralled by l'il Gator Loki and Classic Loki. It looks like they're going to be allowed to go a little weird. Gonna be hard to match Into the Spiderverse for multiverse hijinx but I'm here to see them try.
They must have gotten Christopher Nolan to do the sound mix on the Time Keepers
Or Mumbles the Clown, trying to talk through a latex mask. I went through the trouble of enabling subtitles just to see their dialog. It's entirely uninteresting.
posted by Nelson at 7:17 PM on June 30, 2021 [7 favorites]
Why even go in front of the robot Timekeepers after Mobius gets melted? Why not just zap them in a hallway? Surely whoever is in charge of the robots has just as much access to TVA CC TV?
(I'm actually wondering if Mobius is fully out of the picture. Moving from "trust me Loki we'll get through this together" to getting melted a minute later is either a fakeout or a Deep Blue Sea-worthy unexpected end. To be clear, I'd be happy with either.)
My favorite part of this was Sylvie's tragic opening sequence. It's always a little bit of fun to watch Hiddleston Loki suffer because he gives us all the right things: he's determined not to take things seriously, he bounces back quickly, and he's such a prick that you think he deserves to suffer a tiny bit. It's pretty stomach-churning to watch the whole process happen to a little kid. That said, I hope Sylvie's deviance won't be that she was too pro-heroism as a child. I don't like anything that can lead to "Loki is a bad because the Sacred Timeline made them that way." (I speak of Lokis in general, not Sylvie specifically, as she seems like a pretty ok person actually.)
posted by grandiloquiet at 7:20 PM on June 30, 2021 [5 favorites]
(I'm actually wondering if Mobius is fully out of the picture. Moving from "trust me Loki we'll get through this together" to getting melted a minute later is either a fakeout or a Deep Blue Sea-worthy unexpected end. To be clear, I'd be happy with either.)
My favorite part of this was Sylvie's tragic opening sequence. It's always a little bit of fun to watch Hiddleston Loki suffer because he gives us all the right things: he's determined not to take things seriously, he bounces back quickly, and he's such a prick that you think he deserves to suffer a tiny bit. It's pretty stomach-churning to watch the whole process happen to a little kid. That said, I hope Sylvie's deviance won't be that she was too pro-heroism as a child. I don't like anything that can lead to "Loki is a bad because the Sacred Timeline made them that way." (I speak of Lokis in general, not Sylvie specifically, as she seems like a pretty ok person actually.)
posted by grandiloquiet at 7:20 PM on June 30, 2021 [5 favorites]
Withnail Loki! I'm so there…
posted by Omon Ra at 7:21 PM on June 30, 2021 [7 favorites]
posted by Omon Ra at 7:21 PM on June 30, 2021 [7 favorites]
I have questions about alligator Loki, like where do I get one?!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:30 PM on June 30, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:30 PM on June 30, 2021 [3 favorites]
I didn't like this episode very much. Overall it was fine, but it didn't give me anything surprising and, for me, it was only just good enough. I thought it continued the downturn in quality from the last episode with regards to camera work, choreography, sound mixing, and other technical aspects. That entire scene in the Timekeepers chamber was a mess and I think that the decision to make such a pivotal moment in the story a fight sequence was disappointing, if not a surprise given they undermined WandaVision's genre experiments the same way.
I don't mean to come in here and dump on something everyone is enjoying. The show is still entertaining, I'm just disappointed that it is slipping into the usual bad habits of the MCU. I did enjoy most of the performances and Owen Wilson's, especially. He's almost too good in most of his scenes, selling his character way more than the dialogue has a right to get away with.
I really hope the last episodes are able to tighten up and return to the more controlled and composed style of the first episodes, but at this point, I really think they're going the way of WandaVision and it is going to become cheesier and action-oriented instead of doubling down on the uniqueness.
posted by forbiddencabinet at 7:32 PM on June 30, 2021 [5 favorites]
I don't mean to come in here and dump on something everyone is enjoying. The show is still entertaining, I'm just disappointed that it is slipping into the usual bad habits of the MCU. I did enjoy most of the performances and Owen Wilson's, especially. He's almost too good in most of his scenes, selling his character way more than the dialogue has a right to get away with.
I really hope the last episodes are able to tighten up and return to the more controlled and composed style of the first episodes, but at this point, I really think they're going the way of WandaVision and it is going to become cheesier and action-oriented instead of doubling down on the uniqueness.
posted by forbiddencabinet at 7:32 PM on June 30, 2021 [5 favorites]
Should I know at a glance what era of Asgard we were looking at?
The one before Ragnarok, since it's there? It has always had the same general architecture AFAIK; that's the throne room.
Loved the bit with Sif, which alludes to this legend. (Oddly, it's Sylvie who has the golden hair here--well, blonde-ish.) I'm guessing that, if two Lokii together can cause a variance, then Crisis of Infinite Lokae might be the precipitating event for the multiverse. I'm also headcanoning that Lokidile is actually one of the Janeway-Paris kids.
posted by Halloween Jack at 7:53 PM on June 30, 2021 [7 favorites]
The one before Ragnarok, since it's there? It has always had the same general architecture AFAIK; that's the throne room.
Loved the bit with Sif, which alludes to this legend. (Oddly, it's Sylvie who has the golden hair here--well, blonde-ish.) I'm guessing that, if two Lokii together can cause a variance, then Crisis of Infinite Lokae might be the precipitating event for the multiverse. I'm also headcanoning that Lokidile is actually one of the Janeway-Paris kids.
posted by Halloween Jack at 7:53 PM on June 30, 2021 [7 favorites]
Forbidden cabinet, nothing surprising? Even Alligator Loki? You can say it's a dumb surprise but pretty sure it wasn't on anyone's checklist.
(I also need the plush version of him immediately).
I guess I find myself in the opposite side from where I usually am. Doctor Who drives me bananas because it makes no damn sense and I don't like the Doctor much (well 9 was ok, but the rest, eh). This doesn't make sense either but I am enjoying it.
posted by emjaybee at 8:01 PM on June 30, 2021 [2 favorites]
(I also need the plush version of him immediately).
I guess I find myself in the opposite side from where I usually am. Doctor Who drives me bananas because it makes no damn sense and I don't like the Doctor much (well 9 was ok, but the rest, eh). This doesn't make sense either but I am enjoying it.
posted by emjaybee at 8:01 PM on June 30, 2021 [2 favorites]
I have questions about alligator Loki, like where do I get one?!
In town, same as Cat Thor
posted by pykrete jungle at 9:50 PM on June 30, 2021 [4 favorites]
I'll have an alligator Loki, and make it snappy!
posted by mikelieman at 10:05 PM on June 30, 2021 [11 favorites]
posted by mikelieman at 10:05 PM on June 30, 2021 [11 favorites]
I guess Sylvie is an actual Loki after all. Didn't guess that one.
I suspected the Timekeepers were something hinky, but beheaded robot is definitely amusing and makes that line from episode one kinda hilarious. I presume Ravenna runs them?
I don't quite think the Lokis are in lurve, not even dude Loki, but really, he's such a narcissist that wouldn't he go for the ol' Screw Yourself trope?
Awww, Mobius and his jet ski. Well, I presume he isn't totally gone given the credits ending, but I did enjoy his and Hunter's developments over finding out they are variants.
Lady Sif ball kicking on repeat: the gift that keeps on giving, indeed.
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:15 PM on June 30, 2021 [1 favorite]
I suspected the Timekeepers were something hinky, but beheaded robot is definitely amusing and makes that line from episode one kinda hilarious. I presume Ravenna runs them?
I don't quite think the Lokis are in lurve, not even dude Loki, but really, he's such a narcissist that wouldn't he go for the ol' Screw Yourself trope?
Awww, Mobius and his jet ski. Well, I presume he isn't totally gone given the credits ending, but I did enjoy his and Hunter's developments over finding out they are variants.
Lady Sif ball kicking on repeat: the gift that keeps on giving, indeed.
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:15 PM on June 30, 2021 [1 favorite]
This ep was better than the previous one (outside of the terrible fight choreography/direction) but there's still some magic missing that was there in the first two eps. I can't put my finger on it but I'm hopeful we end up with something really wackadoo.
I'm working under the assumption that the second ten-year arc for the MCU post-Endgame is the multiverse, with the Spider-verse (animated AND the one w/ Tobey Maguire, Andrew Garfield et al,) the Fantastic Four (probably not with Chris Evans,) some new X-Men, and and and. Stuff that will make what's-his-name playing Quicksilver from WandaVision small potatoes. If that turns out to be correct, then either that multiverse kicks off for real here or in the upcoming Dr. Strange film. I suspect it will start here.
If that's the case, I am really looking forward to ending this season with complete fuck-nuttery, branches of the timeline like a big ol Tufte diagram on crack: mulitple lokis but also multiple everythings. I have no idea how this will all pan out, but I'll be disappointed if things don't get really really weird over the next two eps.
posted by nushustu at 10:44 PM on June 30, 2021
I'm working under the assumption that the second ten-year arc for the MCU post-Endgame is the multiverse, with the Spider-verse (animated AND the one w/ Tobey Maguire, Andrew Garfield et al,) the Fantastic Four (probably not with Chris Evans,) some new X-Men, and and and. Stuff that will make what's-his-name playing Quicksilver from WandaVision small potatoes. If that turns out to be correct, then either that multiverse kicks off for real here or in the upcoming Dr. Strange film. I suspect it will start here.
If that's the case, I am really looking forward to ending this season with complete fuck-nuttery, branches of the timeline like a big ol Tufte diagram on crack: mulitple lokis but also multiple everythings. I have no idea how this will all pan out, but I'll be disappointed if things don't get really really weird over the next two eps.
posted by nushustu at 10:44 PM on June 30, 2021
Forbidden cabinet, nothing surprising? Even Alligator Loki? You can say it's a dumb surprise but pretty sure it wasn't on anyone's checklist.Well, I wasn't expecting it, but it also didn't do anything for me. We already knew there were many different Lokis so learning that Loki isn't dead and is instead elsewhere with some more Lokis wasn't really that surprising. More surprising to me is that they decided to rob the entire episode of its impact with that post-credits scene. Even here we have at least as many comments about the new Lokis in the stinger as we have of about the 40-minute episode or the character journeys. I think that's pretty telling and I also think it is a shame that Marvel didn't have the confidence to let us think Loki was dead until the end of next week's episode. I think the discourse would have been a lot more interesting.
posted by forbiddencabinet at 2:55 AM on July 1, 2021 [4 favorites]
My household observed that when the scriptwriter put in a scene of Loki, kneeling & wearing a collar, in front of Mobius, with the latter threatening to box the former's ears, they knew exactly how much gasoline they were dumping onto the fanfic bonfire.
posted by radwolf76 at 2:55 AM on July 1, 2021 [16 favorites]
posted by radwolf76 at 2:55 AM on July 1, 2021 [16 favorites]
so was that whole scene where they were talking about the value of memories, with all the tears in the rain, was that meant as an homage, then, or
The Simpsons Will Cross Over with Marvel for Loki Short in July
why though
why
posted by DoctorFedora at 4:44 AM on July 1, 2021
The Simpsons Will Cross Over with Marvel for Loki Short in July
why though
why
posted by DoctorFedora at 4:44 AM on July 1, 2021
aw dip
you guys
knowing what we know now about how all this works
you guys
Pillboi could actually be canon within the Marvel universe
posted by DoctorFedora at 5:17 AM on July 1, 2021 [46 favorites]
you guys
knowing what we know now about how all this works
you guys
Pillboi could actually be canon within the Marvel universe
posted by DoctorFedora at 5:17 AM on July 1, 2021 [46 favorites]
I haven't had a chance to revisit episode 2, but what weapon does Ravonna grab towards the end of the episode? Is it a machete or just a random sword? I thought it was just a random sword but she put Sylvie's machete on the trophy wall along with the other weapons. I'm wondering if these are exclusively Loki weapons.
posted by wasabifooting at 6:20 AM on July 1, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by wasabifooting at 6:20 AM on July 1, 2021 [1 favorite]
While appreciating the appeal of Pudgy Old Man Loki In Classic Underoos, I don't think I've ever seen a better argument for the abolishment of post-credit sequences. What was the point of moving that revelation - so integral to the story - to the credits? Just dumb.
Also this:
jeez, the fight blocking is SO BAD.
Yeah, that final fight in front of the robot time lords was awfully filmed, awfully blocked, awfully edited. I tried to think it was deliberate - you know, "THE CLIMAX YOU EXPECTED WAS ANTICLIMACTIC!" kind of thing, but no. That was just really bad fight choreography and filming, with no excuses.
Still, the friendship/banter between Loki and Mobius, and between Loki and Sylvie (though it seems clear Sylvie doesn't share Loki's burgeoning romantic interest), keeps things interesting, and I adore where they're going with the multiple Lokis. I also like the evolution of Hunter B-15, even if I expected it. A fun, relatively clever spandex show.
posted by mediareport at 6:39 AM on July 1, 2021 [8 favorites]
Also this:
jeez, the fight blocking is SO BAD.
Yeah, that final fight in front of the robot time lords was awfully filmed, awfully blocked, awfully edited. I tried to think it was deliberate - you know, "THE CLIMAX YOU EXPECTED WAS ANTICLIMACTIC!" kind of thing, but no. That was just really bad fight choreography and filming, with no excuses.
Still, the friendship/banter between Loki and Mobius, and between Loki and Sylvie (though it seems clear Sylvie doesn't share Loki's burgeoning romantic interest), keeps things interesting, and I adore where they're going with the multiple Lokis. I also like the evolution of Hunter B-15, even if I expected it. A fun, relatively clever spandex show.
posted by mediareport at 6:39 AM on July 1, 2021 [8 favorites]
I swear the specific imagery there, the android head falling off with wires sticking out, the other androids laughing robotically.. I think that's in a scene somewhere from some 60s something or another?
I thought of KISS Meets the Phantom of the Park, but there could well have been something else too.
I was kind of expecting a "pay no attention to the man (Kang?) behind the curtain" thing from that scene.
posted by Foosnark at 6:42 AM on July 1, 2021 [1 favorite]
I thought of KISS Meets the Phantom of the Park, but there could well have been something else too.
I was kind of expecting a "pay no attention to the man (Kang?) behind the curtain" thing from that scene.
posted by Foosnark at 6:42 AM on July 1, 2021 [1 favorite]
Mobius mentioning vampires is totally a Blade setup.
Oddly, just this week I have been watching the Wesley Snipes Blade movies (or technically rewatching the first one, as I did see it in 1998). It seems there was a jettisoned post-credits scene* from the first that would have set up Michael Morbius as the heavy for the sequel.
Odd to think that a decade before the MCU came to be, a Marvel movie flirted with the idea of a post-credits sequence to place its characters in a larger world.
* I KNOW, RIGHT
posted by ricochet biscuit at 6:42 AM on July 1, 2021 [4 favorites]
Oddly, just this week I have been watching the Wesley Snipes Blade movies (or technically rewatching the first one, as I did see it in 1998). It seems there was a jettisoned post-credits scene* from the first that would have set up Michael Morbius as the heavy for the sequel.
Odd to think that a decade before the MCU came to be, a Marvel movie flirted with the idea of a post-credits sequence to place its characters in a larger world.
* I KNOW, RIGHT
posted by ricochet biscuit at 6:42 AM on July 1, 2021 [4 favorites]
Withnail Loki! I'm so there…
The four principals of that movie wound up with roles in, respectively, the MCU, Doctor Who, the Harry Potter films, and Star Wars. That’s a whole lot of fandoms in one place.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 6:46 AM on July 1, 2021 [1 favorite]
The four principals of that movie wound up with roles in, respectively, the MCU, Doctor Who, the Harry Potter films, and Star Wars. That’s a whole lot of fandoms in one place.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 6:46 AM on July 1, 2021 [1 favorite]
By 2030 I have little doubt that every actor (living and/or officially licensed by estate hologram) will have a MCU or Star Wars credit to their name.
posted by M Edward at 6:48 AM on July 1, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by M Edward at 6:48 AM on July 1, 2021 [6 favorites]
If they hadn't had the post-credit scene we'd spend a week arguing about how the show is going to have 2 more episodes without the title character.
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:01 AM on July 1, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:01 AM on July 1, 2021 [6 favorites]
We'd have said "sweet, Sylvie is our Loki now," and then been sad when she wasn't.
posted by emjaybee at 7:22 AM on July 1, 2021 [14 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 7:22 AM on July 1, 2021 [14 favorites]
The post-credits scene was a cheap enough out for the obviously fake death of Moebius and Loki-Prime that it distracted everybody from last week's cheap and obviously fake-death of Loki-Prime and Sylvie. Success! No one is even mentioning that the whole premise of like half the show is that an apocalypse creates a safe zone for the variants, and the premise of this episode is . . . maybe they don't? I mean, I didn't expect a great out from the pending doom of Loki and Sylvie, but the solution here was pretty lackluster.
If a fight scene is choreographed and edited really well, it's possible to have an interlude between protagonists that doesn't feel artificial and forced and threaten our suspension of disbelief because *we know that other bad guy isn't dead yet!* That didn't happen here.
Still, pretty much enjoying the show. High-concept, visually arresting premise that dissolves into nonsense by the finale is probably as much as we can expect for any variation of MCU house-style adventure.
posted by skewed at 7:25 AM on July 1, 2021 [1 favorite]
If a fight scene is choreographed and edited really well, it's possible to have an interlude between protagonists that doesn't feel artificial and forced and threaten our suspension of disbelief because *we know that other bad guy isn't dead yet!* That didn't happen here.
Still, pretty much enjoying the show. High-concept, visually arresting premise that dissolves into nonsense by the finale is probably as much as we can expect for any variation of MCU house-style adventure.
posted by skewed at 7:25 AM on July 1, 2021 [1 favorite]
Pudgy Old Man Loki In Classic Underoos
I was remiss in not mentioning how excited I am to see Richard Grant chew the scenery in this role. Withnail, sure, but also and more recently Can You Ever Forgive Me? He was stunning as a sleazy, aged, drug-addled queer grifter in that wonderful film from Marielle Heller, perfectly paired with Melissa McCarthy as a sleazy, aging, alcoholic queer failing author (they both should have won Oscars for those roles, not just nominations). Can't wait to see what the writers gave him in this, and what he does with it.
posted by mediareport at 8:04 AM on July 1, 2021 [9 favorites]
I was remiss in not mentioning how excited I am to see Richard Grant chew the scenery in this role. Withnail, sure, but also and more recently Can You Ever Forgive Me? He was stunning as a sleazy, aged, drug-addled queer grifter in that wonderful film from Marielle Heller, perfectly paired with Melissa McCarthy as a sleazy, aging, alcoholic queer failing author (they both should have won Oscars for those roles, not just nominations). Can't wait to see what the writers gave him in this, and what he does with it.
posted by mediareport at 8:04 AM on July 1, 2021 [9 favorites]
No one is even mentioning that the whole premise of like half the show is that an apocalypse creates a safe zone for the variants, and the premise of this episode is . . . maybe they don't?
I took the sudden sharp branch as a sign that they were about to merge their powers in such a way as to (a) survive and (b) possibly avert the full apocalypse in progress. An apocalypse is only a safe zone if it actually happens. The blocking seemed to make a big point of the fact that they were making extended skin-to-skin contact, which they mostly hadn't before. It's a pretty stock magic trope that paired magic requires the workers to be in very close sync and have a very close connection. There can hardly be a closer connection than being alternate selves, and they had both finally fallen into the same mood at the same time. If they were reinforcing each other, that also addresses the complaint from the previous episode that Loki's telekinesis went from summoning a Roomba to being able to put an entire falling tower back in place.
posted by Karmakaze at 8:18 AM on July 1, 2021 [12 favorites]
I took the sudden sharp branch as a sign that they were about to merge their powers in such a way as to (a) survive and (b) possibly avert the full apocalypse in progress. An apocalypse is only a safe zone if it actually happens. The blocking seemed to make a big point of the fact that they were making extended skin-to-skin contact, which they mostly hadn't before. It's a pretty stock magic trope that paired magic requires the workers to be in very close sync and have a very close connection. There can hardly be a closer connection than being alternate selves, and they had both finally fallen into the same mood at the same time. If they were reinforcing each other, that also addresses the complaint from the previous episode that Loki's telekinesis went from summoning a Roomba to being able to put an entire falling tower back in place.
posted by Karmakaze at 8:18 AM on July 1, 2021 [12 favorites]
No one is even mentioning that the whole premise of like half the show is that an apocalypse creates a safe zone for the variants, and the premise of this episode is . . . maybe they don't? I mean, I didn't expect a great out from the pending doom of Loki and Sylvie, but the solution here was pretty lackluster.
It's far worse than that. They found Loki and Sylvie because there was a sudden variation spike of unprecedented proportions detected by the TVA, so powerful that it shone like a beacon through the dead zone of the apocalypse.
It was pretty clearly (given the stock interaction where Loki was about to confess something to her just before he was "erased")...Loki falling in love with Sylvie. Barf. (Don't ask why that's such a huge disruption of the sacred timeline even if they both die 30 seconds later.)
Well ,maybe it was just that one or both of them are actually integral to the Sacred Timeline--or the actual agenda hidden behind it--in spite of the TVA labeling them variants, so that their impending death is the disruption detected. But given how disappointingly pedestrian so much of the writing has been, my money is on it being The Power Of Love.
posted by straight at 8:22 AM on July 1, 2021 [1 favorite]
It's far worse than that. They found Loki and Sylvie because there was a sudden variation spike of unprecedented proportions detected by the TVA, so powerful that it shone like a beacon through the dead zone of the apocalypse.
It was pretty clearly (given the stock interaction where Loki was about to confess something to her just before he was "erased")...Loki falling in love with Sylvie. Barf. (Don't ask why that's such a huge disruption of the sacred timeline even if they both die 30 seconds later.)
Well ,maybe it was just that one or both of them are actually integral to the Sacred Timeline--or the actual agenda hidden behind it--in spite of the TVA labeling them variants, so that their impending death is the disruption detected. But given how disappointingly pedestrian so much of the writing has been, my money is on it being The Power Of Love.
posted by straight at 8:22 AM on July 1, 2021 [1 favorite]
I've been really disappointed in this series. Loki (our Loki) has no plots, no schemes, no tricks, no lies. Instead he gets into boring hand-to-hand fights. He doesn't do anything, he just stumbles around watching other people do stuff. He's just not as interesting a character as he was in Thor.
I don't want to watch him whine about how he's a lonely boy acting out to get attention and crying over the memory of Sif kicking him in the balls and telling him he's destined to be alone. Don't try to make me feel bad about Sif kicking Loki in the balls! His parents lied to him for a thousand years about why Thor was always their favorite. He's still really pissed about that! (He's the god of lies, not the god of being deceived by his parents.)
That sequence where Loki says "You're being lied to!" and Ravonna and Mobius have a drink and chat about "Where would you go if you could go anywhen?" and then Mobius finds out "He's been lied to!" was just so cliché. And then they get brought in so the Time Keepers can twirl their mustaches at the Lokis for no reason (all of which is robot theater to deceive...Mobius?) and Loki gets out of it by...another character showing up to start yet another fistfight.
posted by straight at 8:55 AM on July 1, 2021 [6 favorites]
I don't want to watch him whine about how he's a lonely boy acting out to get attention and crying over the memory of Sif kicking him in the balls and telling him he's destined to be alone. Don't try to make me feel bad about Sif kicking Loki in the balls! His parents lied to him for a thousand years about why Thor was always their favorite. He's still really pissed about that! (He's the god of lies, not the god of being deceived by his parents.)
That sequence where Loki says "You're being lied to!" and Ravonna and Mobius have a drink and chat about "Where would you go if you could go anywhen?" and then Mobius finds out "He's been lied to!" was just so cliché. And then they get brought in so the Time Keepers can twirl their mustaches at the Lokis for no reason (all of which is robot theater to deceive...Mobius?) and Loki gets out of it by...another character showing up to start yet another fistfight.
posted by straight at 8:55 AM on July 1, 2021 [6 favorites]
no lies
In this episode Mobius accuses him of lying to him 50 times in the last 10 minutes, and that's maybe only a minor exaggeration. Admittedly, they're not particularly good lies: Sylvie coming to visit him on Asgard where they hatched a scheme together, except she's supposed to be his pawn? I doubt Mobius would have bought that one even without having full access to that filmstrip of his whole life.
posted by radwolf76 at 9:17 AM on July 1, 2021
In this episode Mobius accuses him of lying to him 50 times in the last 10 minutes, and that's maybe only a minor exaggeration. Admittedly, they're not particularly good lies: Sylvie coming to visit him on Asgard where they hatched a scheme together, except she's supposed to be his pawn? I doubt Mobius would have bought that one even without having full access to that filmstrip of his whole life.
posted by radwolf76 at 9:17 AM on July 1, 2021
He doesn't do anything, he just stumbles around watching other people do stuff.
That's a good, sharp point. Our Loki is so far just Hero Buffeted By Events - one of the world's least interesting character types. I'm holding out hope we'll see him get some agency (any agency would do) before the end, but lingering over Baffled Loki has not been a great choice for this series.
posted by mediareport at 9:31 AM on July 1, 2021 [4 favorites]
That's a good, sharp point. Our Loki is so far just Hero Buffeted By Events - one of the world's least interesting character types. I'm holding out hope we'll see him get some agency (any agency would do) before the end, but lingering over Baffled Loki has not been a great choice for this series.
posted by mediareport at 9:31 AM on July 1, 2021 [4 favorites]
Sylvie's amazing costume has a secret: costume designer Christine Wada added concealed zippers so Sophia Di Martino could pump easily & nurse her baby between takes.
posted by autopilot at 9:47 AM on July 1, 2021 [39 favorites]
posted by autopilot at 9:47 AM on July 1, 2021 [39 favorites]
i need to rewatch (i guess) but i also could've sworn that when loki and sylvie touched (to the point the branching was detectable) there was a mutual skin-shift to jotunn blue as well, which i do wonder if it's at all relevant.
but yeah, i'm mostly just enjoying the aesthetics. other than the fact this is an audition reel for the Who Christmas special for Hiddleston, it's 4 episodes in and I'm still feeling my way around the characterisation like I'm in some kind of narrative quicksand. The whole Hero Buffeted by Events describes my own reading as well - which just complicates my understanding because for a god supposedly of mischief he's not been particularly canny (THAT SAID, mcu!loki has never really been particularly bright in action despite all the dialogue telling us that he is).
posted by cendawanita at 10:06 AM on July 1, 2021 [3 favorites]
but yeah, i'm mostly just enjoying the aesthetics. other than the fact this is an audition reel for the Who Christmas special for Hiddleston, it's 4 episodes in and I'm still feeling my way around the characterisation like I'm in some kind of narrative quicksand. The whole Hero Buffeted by Events describes my own reading as well - which just complicates my understanding because for a god supposedly of mischief he's not been particularly canny (THAT SAID, mcu!loki has never really been particularly bright in action despite all the dialogue telling us that he is).
posted by cendawanita at 10:06 AM on July 1, 2021 [3 favorites]
Just noting that it's fitting that the Timekeepers are, apparently, clockwork.
Who watches the, um, watches?
posted by pykrete jungle at 10:28 AM on July 1, 2021 [21 favorites]
Who watches the, um, watches?
posted by pykrete jungle at 10:28 AM on July 1, 2021 [21 favorites]
Also, it wasn't until this episode that I noted the shirt collars give the shirt collars in Her a run for their money on "extremely weird in a way that it takes a while to notice on screen." Like Oxford pauldrons.
posted by pykrete jungle at 10:30 AM on July 1, 2021 [9 favorites]
posted by pykrete jungle at 10:30 AM on July 1, 2021 [9 favorites]
I can definitely see the Hero Buffeted by Events critique about the choices made regarding the narrative. But I admit I'm a little confused by comments about who Loki is "supposed to be." It seems entirely consistent with multiverses that we should take the current character at face value for who this Loki is. Maybe this Loki variant is more messy and emo and/or more genuinely traumatized by the recent events than we might expect other Lokis to be, but... multiverse! Maybe this Loki lost his mojo once encountering the TVA, or maybe this Loki never had much mojo - it's equally valid to backproject what the series has shown about this Loki on to the prior movies (which works surprisingly okay, as cendawanita mentions). Like, I doubt anyone is going to get irritated at Lokidile for choosing not to fight with knives (although I am EAGERLY AWAITING the inevitable comment about the trickster god's crocodile tears.)
posted by BlueBlueElectricBlue at 10:41 AM on July 1, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by BlueBlueElectricBlue at 10:41 AM on July 1, 2021 [4 favorites]
I've always thought that the MCU's great strength, compared to DC's movie efforts, is that it isn't ashamed of its own history, so the post-credits scene delighted me. Richard E. Grant in the comic-book Loki costume!
posted by tavella at 10:59 AM on July 1, 2021 [10 favorites]
posted by tavella at 10:59 AM on July 1, 2021 [10 favorites]
> "the premise of this episode is . . . maybe they don't?"
The variants and the time-keepers scuttled into the nexus of the multiversethicket. “Vamanos, amigos,” he whispered, and threw the busted plastic tempad into the shimmering glow of the chronoportal.
And they rode on in the friscalating dusklight.
posted by kyrademon at 11:37 AM on July 1, 2021 [10 favorites]
The variants and the time-keepers scuttled into the nexus of the multiversethicket. “Vamanos, amigos,” he whispered, and threw the busted plastic tempad into the shimmering glow of the chronoportal.
And they rode on in the friscalating dusklight.
posted by kyrademon at 11:37 AM on July 1, 2021 [10 favorites]
Loki has been beating the "Loki don't die drum" so hard I wonder if we don't get some sort of Loki Prime rebirth. Loki Prime died at Thanos' hands, this TVA Loki is not prime. For all intents and purposes Thor was dead after Thanos' attack too and yet...
I think Variant Loki sat on that moon knowing full well they would not die, they would just be thrown out into space until the TVA realized they survived. I doubt Sylvie ever tried actually living through any of the apocalypses so she was unaware of this survivability trait. The massive nexus spike would be Sylvie realizing this, there would be no stopping her if she knows she can survive an apocalypse.
Pretty surprised by the complaints about nothing happening in this show. I could make the same argument for all of 3 of the Disney+ Marvel shows. I could also make the point for all the netflix Marvel shows, in fact when I recommend Daredevil to people I tell them to try the first 2 and last 2 episodes of every season because that's all they really need. Luke Cage was my absolute favorite but there's definitely whole tangents of nothing really happening except characters being fleshed out.
For me television is a space to let characters just be themselves and I really appreciate how Marvel has approached all their shows.
Wandavision was entertaining in a hugely meta way of nostalgia and weirdness. Falcon didn't do much for me but I did like the general idea behind it and now Loki, while being a bit meandering, is really getting me excited for the coming MCU phase.
Loki feels like it's actually in the Endgame universe where the other 2 felt only tangentially related.
posted by M Edward at 11:43 AM on July 1, 2021 [6 favorites]
I think Variant Loki sat on that moon knowing full well they would not die, they would just be thrown out into space until the TVA realized they survived. I doubt Sylvie ever tried actually living through any of the apocalypses so she was unaware of this survivability trait. The massive nexus spike would be Sylvie realizing this, there would be no stopping her if she knows she can survive an apocalypse.
Pretty surprised by the complaints about nothing happening in this show. I could make the same argument for all of 3 of the Disney+ Marvel shows. I could also make the point for all the netflix Marvel shows, in fact when I recommend Daredevil to people I tell them to try the first 2 and last 2 episodes of every season because that's all they really need. Luke Cage was my absolute favorite but there's definitely whole tangents of nothing really happening except characters being fleshed out.
For me television is a space to let characters just be themselves and I really appreciate how Marvel has approached all their shows.
Wandavision was entertaining in a hugely meta way of nostalgia and weirdness. Falcon didn't do much for me but I did like the general idea behind it and now Loki, while being a bit meandering, is really getting me excited for the coming MCU phase.
Loki feels like it's actually in the Endgame universe where the other 2 felt only tangentially related.
posted by M Edward at 11:43 AM on July 1, 2021 [6 favorites]
Also WRT Richard E. Grant: he had a brief turn as Zander Rice in Logan, for a little MCU-annex connection.
posted by Halloween Jack at 11:52 AM on July 1, 2021
posted by Halloween Jack at 11:52 AM on July 1, 2021
I was just chatting with my 11-year-old nephew and he dropped an awesome theory on me re: the smol alligator Loki: that’s the Loki from the universe of Spider-Ham, featured prominently in Into The Spider-Verse.
posted by slappy_pinchbottom at 12:43 PM on July 1, 2021 [25 favorites]
posted by slappy_pinchbottom at 12:43 PM on July 1, 2021 [25 favorites]
Your nephew is 100% right, I hope. Loki alligator is the nemesis of Throg - Thor as a frog.
Kid Loki! That ticks another box. I think we've had enough appearances and announcements that we've got almost everyone needed to make Young Avengers happen. AND Gillen & McKelvie are thanked (among others) in the credits.
posted by sleeping bear at 12:47 PM on July 1, 2021 [10 favorites]
Kid Loki! That ticks another box. I think we've had enough appearances and announcements that we've got almost everyone needed to make Young Avengers happen. AND Gillen & McKelvie are thanked (among others) in the credits.
posted by sleeping bear at 12:47 PM on July 1, 2021 [10 favorites]
It's bothering me that I can't place my finger on who the Timekeepers reminded me of. My first thought was some scene from Mork and Mindy, when Mork reports back home. Or was it one of the Superman movies? Something from the 1980s.
posted by The corpse in the library at 12:50 PM on July 1, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by The corpse in the library at 12:50 PM on July 1, 2021 [1 favorite]
No one is even mentioning that the whole premise of like half the show is that an apocalypse creates a safe zone for the variants, and the premise of this episode is . . . maybe they don't?
I thought Sylvie said that the apocalypses happen because she went and hid out in that place. Because she's such an important, weird variant that shit falls apart around her. She's not choosing places where the world is about to end, worlds end because she shows up.
And I'm 100% okay with that credit cookie. Better we talk about Richard Grant and Lokidile than "oh no, Loki just got killed. I'm sure that is 100% legit even though I know that Hiddleston already signed up for season 2 of this show."
posted by nushustu at 12:52 PM on July 1, 2021 [1 favorite]
I thought Sylvie said that the apocalypses happen because she went and hid out in that place. Because she's such an important, weird variant that shit falls apart around her. She's not choosing places where the world is about to end, worlds end because she shows up.
And I'm 100% okay with that credit cookie. Better we talk about Richard Grant and Lokidile than "oh no, Loki just got killed. I'm sure that is 100% legit even though I know that Hiddleston already signed up for season 2 of this show."
posted by nushustu at 12:52 PM on July 1, 2021 [1 favorite]
In the Peter Porker: The Spectacular Spider-Ham comic books, Looky was a dog, along with the rest of the Arfgardians.
posted by 1970s Antihero at 12:54 PM on July 1, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by 1970s Antihero at 12:54 PM on July 1, 2021 [6 favorites]
It's bothering me that I can't place my finger on who the Timekeepers reminded me of.
The wise elders from the future in Bill & Ted. Party on.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 12:55 PM on July 1, 2021 [16 favorites]
The wise elders from the future in Bill & Ted. Party on.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 12:55 PM on July 1, 2021 [16 favorites]
Hero Buffeted by Events doesn't have a terrible track record. Lots of sea-voyage stories, The Odyssey (where Odysseus is also a trickster), Sinbad, Moby Dick. I think this show does have clunky moments; the coming attraction reels so far have seemed cooler than the actual show. Loki doesn't have agency in driving the story? Well, that's kind of the point of the story. The antagonist is the TVA, which we see through people like Mobius of Ravonna. It's the TVA that has robbed Loki of his agency, and the conflict is how does he get it back. It's a lopsided fight, they have transcripts of his entire life, and he never heard of them before. He takes advantage of situations as he can, in that split second decided to go through the portal with Sylvie because it opens up more possibilities. My conclusion that we were watching a Picaresque story is not being completely fulfilled, but my earlier idea that the TVA was a Demiurge out of Gnosticism entrapping the real gods, that seems to be more the theme.
posted by Schmucko at 1:15 PM on July 1, 2021 [7 favorites]
posted by Schmucko at 1:15 PM on July 1, 2021 [7 favorites]
I thought the Mobius-Loki banter was sharper this time, given higher energy and stakes.
But... on scrutiny it seems odd Mobius would be so scandalized that he was a variant with a life of his own. He would think little of interfering with the life another variant, and he seems to view his work in the TVA as giving him an elevated position, a position of knowledge and authority, a life behind the veil of ignorance of those living on a timeline he oversees. Though he may be realizing this is only the tip of the iceberg, given the clues we've seen about the stains on the coffee table in Ravonna's office, etc.
posted by Schmucko at 1:24 PM on July 1, 2021 [1 favorite]
But... on scrutiny it seems odd Mobius would be so scandalized that he was a variant with a life of his own. He would think little of interfering with the life another variant, and he seems to view his work in the TVA as giving him an elevated position, a position of knowledge and authority, a life behind the veil of ignorance of those living on a timeline he oversees. Though he may be realizing this is only the tip of the iceberg, given the clues we've seen about the stains on the coffee table in Ravonna's office, etc.
posted by Schmucko at 1:24 PM on July 1, 2021 [1 favorite]
The comparison of the timekeepers to the elders in Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure is apt. I've also seen some people comparing them to the Council of Ricks from Rick and Morty a couple seasons back.
posted by wabbittwax at 3:04 PM on July 1, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by wabbittwax at 3:04 PM on July 1, 2021 [1 favorite]
Perhaps similar to the timekeepers are Zardoz or Star Trek V?
posted by Schmucko at 4:22 PM on July 1, 2021
posted by Schmucko at 4:22 PM on July 1, 2021
If they hadn't had the post-credit scene we'd spend a week arguing about how the show is going to have 2 more episodes without the title character.
No, we would have been able to figure out that the elimination of people by the TVA isn't what it first seems. They had to give us the reveal straight away, because otherwise we would have figured it out within the week. If not the next day.
posted by crossoverman at 5:22 PM on July 1, 2021
No, we would have been able to figure out that the elimination of people by the TVA isn't what it first seems. They had to give us the reveal straight away, because otherwise we would have figured it out within the week. If not the next day.
posted by crossoverman at 5:22 PM on July 1, 2021
Yeah, pretending that Tom Hiddleston was actually gone would have been ridiculous.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:15 PM on July 1, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:15 PM on July 1, 2021 [3 favorites]
Is a Loki that really loves Loki the greatest variance in the universe?
posted by EatTheWeek at 6:26 PM on July 1, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by EatTheWeek at 6:26 PM on July 1, 2021 [5 favorites]
Richard E. Grant!
About the actual episode:
- Knowing that Mobius has been lied to, about who he is, for his entire life, has got to resonate with Loki. On the flip side, it does not seem to have ever occurred to Sylvie that she could make allies of TVA personnel by pulling up their suppressed memories.
- Hunter B-15 is my new favorite Inspector Javert, that was great, I hope she has more to do in the remaining episodes.
- For the hypothetical third Loki, maybe they pressed one into service in the TVA to hunt Sylvie, and he went MIA after encountering her? That could explain some of Sylvie's advanced insider knowledge, plus some of the TVA attitude towards our Loki.
- Back to Mobius, like you do - what was Ravenna doing during that drinking scene? Prodding about where in the timeline he'd want to visit, and "oh hey you finally get to meet the Timekeepers like you always wanted!" It felt like she was fishing for somewhere he'd go without a fuss so that she could kill him quietly. (Again? And replace him with the next Mobius variant that comes in? Back in the first episode, he made a joke about looking up at her in the courtroom...)
posted by mersen at 6:31 PM on July 1, 2021 [2 favorites]
About the actual episode:
- Knowing that Mobius has been lied to, about who he is, for his entire life, has got to resonate with Loki. On the flip side, it does not seem to have ever occurred to Sylvie that she could make allies of TVA personnel by pulling up their suppressed memories.
- Hunter B-15 is my new favorite Inspector Javert, that was great, I hope she has more to do in the remaining episodes.
- For the hypothetical third Loki, maybe they pressed one into service in the TVA to hunt Sylvie, and he went MIA after encountering her? That could explain some of Sylvie's advanced insider knowledge, plus some of the TVA attitude towards our Loki.
- Back to Mobius, like you do - what was Ravenna doing during that drinking scene? Prodding about where in the timeline he'd want to visit, and "oh hey you finally get to meet the Timekeepers like you always wanted!" It felt like she was fishing for somewhere he'd go without a fuss so that she could kill him quietly. (Again? And replace him with the next Mobius variant that comes in? Back in the first episode, he made a joke about looking up at her in the courtroom...)
posted by mersen at 6:31 PM on July 1, 2021 [2 favorites]
And I'm sorta willing to give the fight scenes a bit of 'rona related lenience - a lot of other stuff, eh fine ok quick takes and re-mask, but a good tight physical fight scene might've been asking too much depending on when the scenes were filmed during the pandemic.
I mean, the cattleprods o' doom are pretty frickin' useless and I'm only holding on to the argument that the TVA rank and file never actually encounter competent opponents because otherwise THERE'S ONE DEADLY END AND YOU POKE AT THE BAD GUY WITH IT.
posted by Kyol at 7:08 PM on July 1, 2021 [4 favorites]
I mean, the cattleprods o' doom are pretty frickin' useless and I'm only holding on to the argument that the TVA rank and file never actually encounter competent opponents because otherwise THERE'S ONE DEADLY END AND YOU POKE AT THE BAD GUY WITH IT.
posted by Kyol at 7:08 PM on July 1, 2021 [4 favorites]
Even more embarrassing: the Timekeepers' robots' guards' cattleprods had both a poking end and a stabbing end, and the six? eight? of them lasted about a minute against two Lokis with one weapon.
I'm not a fight scene expert, but I agree with Kyol, the TVA agents do not seem to know how to use the weapon they have. Maybe this is a plot point, or maybe the show just couldn't disappear too many people too soon.
posted by mersen at 7:37 PM on July 1, 2021 [1 favorite]
I'm not a fight scene expert, but I agree with Kyol, the TVA agents do not seem to know how to use the weapon they have. Maybe this is a plot point, or maybe the show just couldn't disappear too many people too soon.
posted by mersen at 7:37 PM on July 1, 2021 [1 favorite]
It's bothering me that I can't place my finger on who the Timekeepers reminded me of.
It's the cylon high command from the original battlestar galactica.
posted by Catblack at 7:39 PM on July 1, 2021 [16 favorites]
It's the cylon high command from the original battlestar galactica.
posted by Catblack at 7:39 PM on July 1, 2021 [16 favorites]
Sylvie’s love was a postman.
Marvel is working towards bringing back the Fantastic Four.
Mobius has grey hair and a (kinda bad) mustache. Maybe pre-variant Mobius was Willie Lumpkin?
posted by FallibleHuman at 9:37 PM on July 1, 2021
Marvel is working towards bringing back the Fantastic Four.
Mobius has grey hair and a (kinda bad) mustache. Maybe pre-variant Mobius was Willie Lumpkin?
posted by FallibleHuman at 9:37 PM on July 1, 2021
I've also seen some people comparing them to the Council of Ricks from Rick and Morty a couple seasons back.
Loki series creator Michael Waldron wrote on Rick and Morty, so no surprise; the Council of Ricks was itself a callback to a Marvel FF storyline about a council of Reed Richards variants (the Interdimensional Council of Reeds).
posted by LooseFilter at 9:57 PM on July 1, 2021 [5 favorites]
Loki series creator Michael Waldron wrote on Rick and Morty, so no surprise; the Council of Ricks was itself a callback to a Marvel FF storyline about a council of Reed Richards variants (the Interdimensional Council of Reeds).
posted by LooseFilter at 9:57 PM on July 1, 2021 [5 favorites]
mersen, I think Ravenna was going to put him in a magic mind prison, because he knows too much, but she wanted to put him in a happy mind prison, because she doesn’t want to hurt him.
posted by Night_owl at 11:00 PM on July 1, 2021 [10 favorites]
posted by Night_owl at 11:00 PM on July 1, 2021 [10 favorites]
I'm personally ambivalent on Loki and Sylvie getting together romantically, but Loki x Loki is one of my favorite crack-tropes in AO3, so I'm not against it.
It's just that their interactions read more like Loki has never experienced true, unconditional love before, and is mistaking those feelings for romantic love (especially right on the heels of their "love isn't real" conversation on the train). Anyway. Falling for an alternate version of yourself with a wildly different upbringing isn't the weirdest thing that could happen.
The background plot feels a little cheesy right now, but at least (to me) the character interactions are holding up the weight. Loki in the memory prison was clever; I could see how a few hundred (thousand?) repeats could actually get him to be introspective and apologize to Sif, even if she was a construct.
posted by lesser weasel at 11:36 PM on July 1, 2021 [4 favorites]
It's just that their interactions read more like Loki has never experienced true, unconditional love before, and is mistaking those feelings for romantic love (especially right on the heels of their "love isn't real" conversation on the train). Anyway. Falling for an alternate version of yourself with a wildly different upbringing isn't the weirdest thing that could happen.
The background plot feels a little cheesy right now, but at least (to me) the character interactions are holding up the weight. Loki in the memory prison was clever; I could see how a few hundred (thousand?) repeats could actually get him to be introspective and apologize to Sif, even if she was a construct.
posted by lesser weasel at 11:36 PM on July 1, 2021 [4 favorites]
I watched through the four episodes yesterday - they pack a lot in, don't they? I was shocked it was only four. I have more groundless conjectures, sorry. It's how I watch things. It's how I live, too, actually, but that's my problem.
Firstly, the way Mobius and Ravonna come across to me all together like that, is that in the "real" world, before the TVA, they were married. She remembers, he doesn't, but the way things have been set up is that she's been allowed to keep him around, as long as he doesn't get out of hand. He got out of hand, so she had to get rid of him, and she's upset about that. She knows about the scam, but it's not clear at this point whether she knows that pruning involves teleportation rather than disintegration.
The TVA is a pretext for a giant people-mining operation: The agents can do their job because they are sold the story of the sacred timeline. They're on the look-out for Lokis, because there's something a Loki can do that they can't. The nexus event thing is real, but it's easier to kidnap people from "new" universes, before the deviation has settled down, in the same way that Sylvie can hide in natural disasters. I think c15 and c20 are related in some way, in fact it might be that the core TVA personal we've seen were extracted from the same place at the same time.
Even more obscure: Behind the scenes there are two forces at work: whoever's behind the TVA and whoever's behind Sylvie, most likely the Post-Man (if you listen to that bit again, that's the way she does seem to stress the two syllables), because it would be most satisfying if it's something we've seen already. Why does there have to be someone behind Sylvie? Well, for a start when there's a narrative like hers, that seems to be how it works - the child runs and runs until they find a mentor who trains them up. Think Oliver Twist.
Anyway, that's my overactive... I wouldn't call it an imagination, that would be giving it too much credit, but it's overheating anyway. I can pretend that's the story for another five days, before the actual series happens along with something completely different, and probably better.
posted by Grangousier at 12:12 AM on July 2, 2021 [6 favorites]
Firstly, the way Mobius and Ravonna come across to me all together like that, is that in the "real" world, before the TVA, they were married. She remembers, he doesn't, but the way things have been set up is that she's been allowed to keep him around, as long as he doesn't get out of hand. He got out of hand, so she had to get rid of him, and she's upset about that. She knows about the scam, but it's not clear at this point whether she knows that pruning involves teleportation rather than disintegration.
The TVA is a pretext for a giant people-mining operation: The agents can do their job because they are sold the story of the sacred timeline. They're on the look-out for Lokis, because there's something a Loki can do that they can't. The nexus event thing is real, but it's easier to kidnap people from "new" universes, before the deviation has settled down, in the same way that Sylvie can hide in natural disasters. I think c15 and c20 are related in some way, in fact it might be that the core TVA personal we've seen were extracted from the same place at the same time.
Even more obscure: Behind the scenes there are two forces at work: whoever's behind the TVA and whoever's behind Sylvie, most likely the Post-Man (if you listen to that bit again, that's the way she does seem to stress the two syllables), because it would be most satisfying if it's something we've seen already. Why does there have to be someone behind Sylvie? Well, for a start when there's a narrative like hers, that seems to be how it works - the child runs and runs until they find a mentor who trains them up. Think Oliver Twist.
Anyway, that's my overactive... I wouldn't call it an imagination, that would be giving it too much credit, but it's overheating anyway. I can pretend that's the story for another five days, before the actual series happens along with something completely different, and probably better.
posted by Grangousier at 12:12 AM on July 2, 2021 [6 favorites]
Pillboi could actually be canon within the Marvel universe
And Janet.
posted by tilde at 7:16 AM on July 2, 2021 [9 favorites]
Oh, I suddenly want Janet in the MCU... a frankly disturbing amount, actually.
posted by Grangousier at 7:42 AM on July 2, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by Grangousier at 7:42 AM on July 2, 2021 [4 favorites]
I'm basing my expectations for this character on the stuff we saw him do in Thor and The Avengers before he diverged. In Thor, he had plans within plans. Multiple brilliantly-smooth lies about why he had to leave Thor in exile ("My first act as king cannot be to undo my father's last act."). He fooled everyone into thinking he was plotting patricide to cover up his actual plan to commit genocide.
posted by straight at 9:28 AM on July 2, 2021
posted by straight at 9:28 AM on July 2, 2021
Yeah, that character has changed. The Loki that “killed 80 people in 2 days” can’t exist in the Disney World.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 10:17 AM on July 2, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 10:17 AM on July 2, 2021 [1 favorite]
It is interesting how they seem to be dead set on retconning the MCU Loki into an antihero instead of supervillain. I assume it has more to do with Hiddleston's popularity more than anything and so they're going to ignore that we had 3 movies where he is in fact a supervillain.
Someone upthread mentioned how Marvel is not afraid of its history and shows it by presenting the variants in all their campy comic book glory but this show itself seems to be afraid of the much more recent history of the actual MCU.
posted by M Edward at 12:41 PM on July 2, 2021 [4 favorites]
Someone upthread mentioned how Marvel is not afraid of its history and shows it by presenting the variants in all their campy comic book glory but this show itself seems to be afraid of the much more recent history of the actual MCU.
posted by M Edward at 12:41 PM on July 2, 2021 [4 favorites]
Thing is an anti-hero is just a villain who's interesting. Doctor Doom in Fantastic Four #5 is a villain, but by this point he's an anti-hero. Or at least the status of villain as a mere antagonist-function has been left behind a long time ago.
By the way, if what the TVA are doing is teleporting people rather than annihilating them, our (anti-)heroes have killed more people so far than our villains.
posted by Grangousier at 1:21 PM on July 2, 2021 [1 favorite]
By the way, if what the TVA are doing is teleporting people rather than annihilating them, our (anti-)heroes have killed more people so far than our villains.
posted by Grangousier at 1:21 PM on July 2, 2021 [1 favorite]
My household observed that when the scriptwriter put in a scene of Loki, kneeling & wearing a collar, in front of Mobius, with the latter threatening to box the former's ears, they knew exactly how much gasoline they were dumping onto the fanfic bonfire.
An observation Athena Scalzi made about the show so far seems relevant:
An observation Athena Scalzi made about the show so far seems relevant:
Loki is a fantastic character as is, but what’s special about him in Loki is that it seems like the writers are finally writing him for the audience he has rather than the audience he was initially aimed at. What do I mean by this? It feels to me like the Loki from The Avengers was someone written for edgy teenage boys, sort of like a Joker-type character that makes you “really think about society.” The Loki that is portrayed in Loki is more like a fun, chaotic, and sometimes downright silly ball of mischief and charm. He’s written more for the villain-loving Millennial girls who wrote fanfiction on Wattpad in their youth (definitely NOT speaking from experience).posted by cheshyre at 4:25 PM on July 2, 2021 [19 favorites]
Seems like there is a lot going on, but nothing's happening.
posted by pjsky at 4:26 PM on July 2, 2021
posted by pjsky at 4:26 PM on July 2, 2021
> Oh, I suddenly want Janet in the MCU... a frankly disturbing amount, actually.As soon as I read this, my brain immediately flashed on D'Arcy Carden as The Silver Surfer. And honestly I don't know if that works or it's just bonkers stupid.
But I've already mentally cast William Jackson Harper as Reed Richards*, so...
*I would also accept Rahul Kohli as Reed.
posted by Fiberoptic Zebroid and The Hypnagogic Jerks at 5:17 PM on July 2, 2021 [5 favorites]
William Jackson Harper as Reed Richards
Oh, dear God, that's perfect.
posted by Grangousier at 5:34 PM on July 2, 2021 [6 favorites]
Oh, dear God, that's perfect.
posted by Grangousier at 5:34 PM on July 2, 2021 [6 favorites]
By the way, I probably* meant Darcy Carden in anything, but, yes.
*It was hours ago. Who knows what I was thinking?
posted by Grangousier at 5:35 PM on July 2, 2021
*It was hours ago. Who knows what I was thinking?
posted by Grangousier at 5:35 PM on July 2, 2021
Every episode is based off an Infinity stone
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:32 PM on July 2, 2021 [7 favorites]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:32 PM on July 2, 2021 [7 favorites]
Has anyone else been watching for the water rings on the coffee table? In ep 4, there are none visible on Mobius’ left hand side (where they were noticeably visible in ep2). Did Ravonna get it refinished? Or are we in some kind of a time loop/ flashback?
Also, I’m also suspicious of some misdirection regarding how long Mobius has been with the TVA (it comes up a lot, he has no answer when Loki asks). Ravonna acts like they are old friends, but Sylvie used a similar tactic in the bar scene when she was enchanting C-20. Maybe he is a recent addition to the team? and/or his previous life is part of the puzzle?
posted by geezlouise at 8:32 PM on July 2, 2021 [3 favorites]
Also, I’m also suspicious of some misdirection regarding how long Mobius has been with the TVA (it comes up a lot, he has no answer when Loki asks). Ravonna acts like they are old friends, but Sylvie used a similar tactic in the bar scene when she was enchanting C-20. Maybe he is a recent addition to the team? and/or his previous life is part of the puzzle?
posted by geezlouise at 8:32 PM on July 2, 2021 [3 favorites]
It's the cylon high command from the original battlestar galactica.
Yes! Thank you.
posted by The corpse in the library at 9:41 PM on July 2, 2021 [1 favorite]
Yes! Thank you.
posted by The corpse in the library at 9:41 PM on July 2, 2021 [1 favorite]
It's bothering me that I can't place my finger on who the Timekeepers reminded me of.
The outfits definitely track with the Time Lord elders as seen in vintage Doctor Who. So does the whole “protecting the sacred timeline” attitude.
posted by mikepop at 9:42 PM on July 2, 2021 [1 favorite]
The outfits definitely track with the Time Lord elders as seen in vintage Doctor Who. So does the whole “protecting the sacred timeline” attitude.
posted by mikepop at 9:42 PM on July 2, 2021 [1 favorite]
Also, it wasn't until this episode that I noted the shirt collars give the shirt collars in Her a run for their money on "extremely weird in a way that it takes a while to notice on screen." Like Oxford pauldrons.
posted by pykrete jungle at 10:30 AM on July 1
You're not the only one. I think I spent most of this episode staring at the collars and shirts and jackets. Ravonna's green blouse didn't fit her properly (it looked like it was pinned to avoid the button-gap problem) and the folded crease was popping). Her big, wide dark brown collar (on the lighter brown jacket) looked like it needed pressing, or the interfacing was wobbly, or something. Her whole outfit needed some tailoring and attention. What I didn't get a good look at was the side tail(?) that was hanging down over one of her hips.
Mobius's white shirt collar and skinny tie was an unusual pairing, but I'll admit I spent ages trying to get a good look at his inverted/negative/whatever-we're-calling-it jacket collar.
Loki's collar extended to his shoulders and became part of the shirt's yoke. I can imagine threading his tie under it would be so much fun.
posted by sardonyx at 10:27 PM on July 2, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by pykrete jungle at 10:30 AM on July 1
You're not the only one. I think I spent most of this episode staring at the collars and shirts and jackets. Ravonna's green blouse didn't fit her properly (it looked like it was pinned to avoid the button-gap problem) and the folded crease was popping). Her big, wide dark brown collar (on the lighter brown jacket) looked like it needed pressing, or the interfacing was wobbly, or something. Her whole outfit needed some tailoring and attention. What I didn't get a good look at was the side tail(?) that was hanging down over one of her hips.
Mobius's white shirt collar and skinny tie was an unusual pairing, but I'll admit I spent ages trying to get a good look at his inverted/negative/whatever-we're-calling-it jacket collar.
Loki's collar extended to his shoulders and became part of the shirt's yoke. I can imagine threading his tie under it would be so much fun.
posted by sardonyx at 10:27 PM on July 2, 2021 [1 favorite]
Every episode is based off an Infinity stone
I saw the same theory about the commercials in WandaVision.
posted by crossoverman at 11:23 PM on July 2, 2021 [1 favorite]
I saw the same theory about the commercials in WandaVision.
posted by crossoverman at 11:23 PM on July 2, 2021 [1 favorite]
Has anyone found any decent images of the TVA suitable for Zoom backgrounds? Would really like one of those offices or control rooms.
posted by TheophileEscargot at 5:22 AM on July 3, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by TheophileEscargot at 5:22 AM on July 3, 2021 [5 favorites]
Every episode is based off an Infinity stone
I saw the same theory about the commercials in WandaVision.
My reading of the "desk drawer of Infinity Stones" scene is Marvel saying "we're done with these." Especially since it comes a few scenes after this exchange:
"Can you at least tell me what it is?
"It is the Tesseract. Be very careful with it."
"It sounds dumb."
posted by EatTheWeek at 6:51 AM on July 3, 2021 [7 favorites]
I saw the same theory about the commercials in WandaVision.
My reading of the "desk drawer of Infinity Stones" scene is Marvel saying "we're done with these." Especially since it comes a few scenes after this exchange:
"Can you at least tell me what it is?
"It is the Tesseract. Be very careful with it."
"It sounds dumb."
posted by EatTheWeek at 6:51 AM on July 3, 2021 [7 favorites]
This episode definitely seems pointed at setting us up for Kang / Immortus. Ravonna Renslayer is tied to Kang in the comics and the robots bore a strong resemblance to the Time-Keepers in the comics (connected to the "Time Variance Authority" from the comics) who were involved with Immortus (another Kang identity).
My guess is Loki is currently in Limbo - where they send pruned variants. There's a lot of connections in the comics that tie Kang, Immortus, Ravonna and Wanda together. I expect the MCU is going to spin this out differently than the comics, but I am guessing we get a strong tie-in in time for Multiverse and Quantumania.
We might see Immortus before we see Kang, trying to recruit assistance against his past self.
Really digging Loki (the series) and interested in where they're taking the character. But I'd really love Sylvie to be a break-out character with her own series. I'm just finding the actress and character particularly compelling. Marvel could go way beyond the source material and do something new and interesting with Sylvie, and I hope they do.
posted by jzb at 8:00 AM on July 3, 2021 [5 favorites]
My guess is Loki is currently in Limbo - where they send pruned variants. There's a lot of connections in the comics that tie Kang, Immortus, Ravonna and Wanda together. I expect the MCU is going to spin this out differently than the comics, but I am guessing we get a strong tie-in in time for Multiverse and Quantumania.
We might see Immortus before we see Kang, trying to recruit assistance against his past self.
Really digging Loki (the series) and interested in where they're taking the character. But I'd really love Sylvie to be a break-out character with her own series. I'm just finding the actress and character particularly compelling. Marvel could go way beyond the source material and do something new and interesting with Sylvie, and I hope they do.
posted by jzb at 8:00 AM on July 3, 2021 [5 favorites]
William Jackson Harper as Reed Richards
Kristen Bell as Susan Storm
Jameela Jamil as Jemina Grimm
Manny Jacinto as Johnny Storm
Ted Danson as Galactus and
D'Arcy Carden as The Silver Surfer
posted by straight at 10:11 AM on July 3, 2021 [23 favorites]
Kristen Bell as Susan Storm
Jameela Jamil as Jemina Grimm
Manny Jacinto as Johnny Storm
Ted Danson as Galactus and
D'Arcy Carden as The Silver Surfer
posted by straight at 10:11 AM on July 3, 2021 [23 favorites]
D'Arcy Carden as The Silver Surfer
In like Flynn.
posted by Halloween Jack at 12:02 PM on July 3, 2021
In like Flynn.
posted by Halloween Jack at 12:02 PM on July 3, 2021
Manny Jacinto as Johnny Storm
Anytime I had a problem and I threw a Nova Blast, boom! Right away, I had a different problemposted by Tabitha Someday at 3:25 PM on July 3, 2021 [16 favorites]
And of course,
Marc Evan Jackson as Dr. Doom
posted by Tabitha Someday at 3:33 PM on July 3, 2021 [19 favorites]
Marc Evan Jackson as Dr. Doom
posted by Tabitha Someday at 3:33 PM on July 3, 2021 [19 favorites]
My reading of the "desk drawer of Infinity Stones" scene is Marvel saying "we're done with these."
Or that the Stones are out of commission, leaving the universe ripe for….something or someone.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 3:54 PM on July 3, 2021 [1 favorite]
Or that the Stones are out of commission, leaving the universe ripe for….something or someone.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 3:54 PM on July 3, 2021 [1 favorite]
straight that might just be the ticket that gets me back into a theatre. Hear that Hollywood? That there is the bar please-and-thankyou.
posted by mce at 4:43 PM on July 3, 2021
posted by mce at 4:43 PM on July 3, 2021
> Jameela Jamil as Jemina GrimmThe only hiccup in this is Jamil has already been cast as Titania in the upcoming She-Hulk show. But Gemma Chan was Minerva in Captain Marvel and now is Sersei in the upcoming Eternals, so who knows?
posted by Fiberoptic Zebroid and The Hypnagogic Jerks at 5:15 PM on July 3, 2021
Jason Mantzoukas as........Franklin Richards?
posted by HeroZero at 5:23 PM on July 3, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by HeroZero at 5:23 PM on July 3, 2021 [2 favorites]
(I could not find a FF character named "Derek.")
posted by HeroZero at 5:23 PM on July 3, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by HeroZero at 5:23 PM on July 3, 2021 [1 favorite]
> Oh, I suddenly want Janet in the MCU... a frankly disturbing amount, actually.
A new Disney Princess.
I thought Derek was Dummy the robot from IronMan.
posted by tilde at 7:59 PM on July 3, 2021
Rewatched today and I do think it's possible they were going for romantic connection, but boy, they didn't sell it. Though if they were going for "Loki feels it, Sylvie doesn't in the same way," yeah, but that is a more nuanced take on romance than I'd expect in a 6-episode Marvel show. This isn't PBS, we don't have time for longing glances and long walks on the moors and broken engagements with the wrong suitor and a side plot about a heartbroken governess.
posted by emjaybee at 10:23 PM on July 3, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 10:23 PM on July 3, 2021 [4 favorites]
longing glances and long walks on the moors and broken engagements with the wrong suitor and a side plot about a heartbroken governess.
Best X-Men pitch I've heard in a long time.
posted by EatTheWeek at 7:19 AM on July 4, 2021 [9 favorites]
Best X-Men pitch I've heard in a long time.
posted by EatTheWeek at 7:19 AM on July 4, 2021 [9 favorites]
Jamil has already been cast as Titania in the upcoming She-Hulk show.
Wow. Titania. Are they gonna use the technology they used on Chris Evans to make Jamil look like a scrawny little kid before Doctor Doom, seeking powerful lackeys for his faction of the Secret Wars, changes her into a Hulk-level brawler by harnessing the power of a Thor-amplified alien thunderstorm on the Battleworld created by the omnipotent Beyonder--who was actually a proto-Cosmic Cube (not to be confused with the MCU Tesseract which was probably inspired by Cosmic Cubes before being retconned into a container for the Space Stone) which was actually a baby from an entire race of nigh-omnipotent Beyonders--to stage, after annihilating an entire galaxy, a battle between the Avengers, X-Men, and Fantastic Four and a horde of super-villains (plus Galactus) to study the nature of desire?
posted by straight at 11:58 PM on July 5, 2021 [4 favorites]
Wow. Titania. Are they gonna use the technology they used on Chris Evans to make Jamil look like a scrawny little kid before Doctor Doom, seeking powerful lackeys for his faction of the Secret Wars, changes her into a Hulk-level brawler by harnessing the power of a Thor-amplified alien thunderstorm on the Battleworld created by the omnipotent Beyonder--who was actually a proto-Cosmic Cube (not to be confused with the MCU Tesseract which was probably inspired by Cosmic Cubes before being retconned into a container for the Space Stone) which was actually a baby from an entire race of nigh-omnipotent Beyonders--to stage, after annihilating an entire galaxy, a battle between the Avengers, X-Men, and Fantastic Four and a horde of super-villains (plus Galactus) to study the nature of desire?
posted by straight at 11:58 PM on July 5, 2021 [4 favorites]
Eh, it’s possible!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:36 AM on July 6, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:36 AM on July 6, 2021 [1 favorite]
That was the real Lady Sif! (or, at least a Variant of her)
Evidence: the TVA doesn't know how to make people ("You're all variants!")
Evidence: the TVA's hologram technology is crap
Evidence: the TVA's mind-control technology is also crap (they couldn't wipe C-20 again, they had to kill her). Mind-control is not something they do casually, that's for sure, and they appear to be terrified of actual mindreading.
Evidence: the TVA do know how to manipulate time in a very fine-grained way.
Ergo: they didn't put Loki in a holodeck or in a mind-controlled coma (for one thing, Mobius clearly entered and exited an actual physical space)
Ergo: they took a 30-second sample from the Sacred Timeline (tm), including Sif, put Loki in it, and looped it on itself. This is entirely consistent with how good their time-travel technology is.
posted by Mogur at 5:49 AM on July 6, 2021 [5 favorites]
Evidence: the TVA doesn't know how to make people ("You're all variants!")
Evidence: the TVA's hologram technology is crap
Evidence: the TVA's mind-control technology is also crap (they couldn't wipe C-20 again, they had to kill her). Mind-control is not something they do casually, that's for sure, and they appear to be terrified of actual mindreading.
Evidence: the TVA do know how to manipulate time in a very fine-grained way.
Ergo: they didn't put Loki in a holodeck or in a mind-controlled coma (for one thing, Mobius clearly entered and exited an actual physical space)
Ergo: they took a 30-second sample from the Sacred Timeline (tm), including Sif, put Loki in it, and looped it on itself. This is entirely consistent with how good their time-travel technology is.
posted by Mogur at 5:49 AM on July 6, 2021 [5 favorites]
My prediction on Titania is that they may decide to use the show to bring the Netflix-MCU continuity into the regular MCU (if they haven't formally done so already). They had that rogue scientist in Jessica Jones who gave powers to Jessica
posted by Halloween Jack at 9:35 AM on July 7, 2021
and her mom
, and another one who gave Luke Cage his powers (and seemed poised to give them to someone else). That would let them bypass the messy comics continuity that straight describes above, which even gets more complicated when looking at Titania's backstory (at one point, she beat Shulkie by getting ahold of the Power Stone; in the comics, you didn't need to worry about feedback from them frying your arm or whatever--a bunch of characters, including Titania temporarily, just wore them on their foreheads like bindis).posted by Halloween Jack at 9:35 AM on July 7, 2021
So, Sylvie was considered a variant because she was going to be a hero, and stop Ragnarok, right? Maybe?
Her playing with her toys seems like a "good" kid
posted by eustatic at 7:02 PM on July 7, 2021
Her playing with her toys seems like a "good" kid
posted by eustatic at 7:02 PM on July 7, 2021
And she is the path for turning Hiddleston!Loki into a hero, thus making everyone more money
posted by eustatic at 7:26 PM on July 7, 2021
posted by eustatic at 7:26 PM on July 7, 2021
That was awesome......
..... except for the fighting which was laughably unbelievable both on a plot and capabilities level. Why aren't we seeing hiddelston-loki with any of his powers? (And I'm not just talking about when he has his collar on)
posted by lalochezia at 6:23 AM on July 9, 2021
..... except for the fighting which was laughably unbelievable both on a plot and capabilities level. Why aren't we seeing hiddelston-loki with any of his powers? (And I'm not just talking about when he has his collar on)
posted by lalochezia at 6:23 AM on July 9, 2021
So, Sylvie was considered a variant because she was going to be a hero, and stop Ragnarok, right? Maybe?
This is actually my thought - hopefully this isn't annoying to everyone, but I pitched this to my kid who has seen all episodes before sharing here and she said "We don't know" so hopefully this is fair game to theorize about.
First: we see the 'reset' button only wipes out the things that are abnormal: in OilFireGrassLand it takes the helmets and leaves the grass, in Medieval Times 1985 it leaves the posts but eliminates the bodies and the helmets. Yet when they take Sylvie and reset the surroundings, it specifically resets the toys she was playing with, which were positive toys: we know that Sylvie was told about her adoption while Loki Prime was not so she had no sudden shock. Also, think how much Moebius was hammering on Loki's purpose in the timeline: to be unsuccessfully evil so other people can be their best selves as a result of him. This is how the TVA sees Loki - any deviation from that would be a spike.
We also see the nexus event on the moon rising rapidly when Loki holds hands with Sylvie - which yes, skin to skin contact, but also, a completely unselfish act. It has no possibility of selfishness because he thinks he's going to die. But he's trying to make it peaceful for Sylvie as she goes and he's trying to essentially die heroically - not trying to wish for a moment more, not scrabbling or plotting - just accepting it and making it okay for Sylvie.
I don't think it's about whether Sylvie would have stopped Ragnarok - I think they consider just the nature of her wanting to to be a significant deviation. And remember - they can't stop the timeline once it veers above the red mark, which seems to take /shockingly/ little.
posted by corb at 5:03 PM on November 27, 2021
This is actually my thought - hopefully this isn't annoying to everyone, but I pitched this to my kid who has seen all episodes before sharing here and she said "We don't know" so hopefully this is fair game to theorize about.
First: we see the 'reset' button only wipes out the things that are abnormal: in OilFireGrassLand it takes the helmets and leaves the grass, in Medieval Times 1985 it leaves the posts but eliminates the bodies and the helmets. Yet when they take Sylvie and reset the surroundings, it specifically resets the toys she was playing with, which were positive toys: we know that Sylvie was told about her adoption while Loki Prime was not so she had no sudden shock. Also, think how much Moebius was hammering on Loki's purpose in the timeline: to be unsuccessfully evil so other people can be their best selves as a result of him. This is how the TVA sees Loki - any deviation from that would be a spike.
We also see the nexus event on the moon rising rapidly when Loki holds hands with Sylvie - which yes, skin to skin contact, but also, a completely unselfish act. It has no possibility of selfishness because he thinks he's going to die. But he's trying to make it peaceful for Sylvie as she goes and he's trying to essentially die heroically - not trying to wish for a moment more, not scrabbling or plotting - just accepting it and making it okay for Sylvie.
I don't think it's about whether Sylvie would have stopped Ragnarok - I think they consider just the nature of her wanting to to be a significant deviation. And remember - they can't stop the timeline once it veers above the red mark, which seems to take /shockingly/ little.
posted by corb at 5:03 PM on November 27, 2021
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This episode had a lot, huh?
posted by Pronoiac at 2:52 AM on June 30, 2021 [7 favorites]