Mad Men: The Other Woman Rewatch
December 31, 2014 7:44 AM - Season 5, Episode 11 - Subscribe
Don's challenged by a pitch and Peggy contemplates a trip.
Another episode I would submit as the best of Mad Men.
posted by drezdn at 8:26 AM on December 31, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by drezdn at 8:26 AM on December 31, 2014 [1 favorite]
Yes, it's a great episode, but I find it hard to watch. Hey fellas, let's prostitute one of our employees. Good idea.
posted by cwest at 2:33 PM on January 1, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by cwest at 2:33 PM on January 1, 2015 [3 favorites]
Nearly all of the major characters from are going through huge changes at this point. Peggy is switching jobs. Joan made a decision that may diminish her in some people's eyes, but that could have huge financial rewards. Lane has the money he "borrowed" hanging over his head. Pete is infatuated with a married woman. And Don, is Don...
posted by drezdn at 4:28 AM on January 2, 2015
posted by drezdn at 4:28 AM on January 2, 2015
God, that scene when Don kisses Peggy's hand. I can't ever make it through without sobbing... I think because it's a powerful moment on its own, but it's also so cathartic after having to watch everything with Joan.
How they interspersed the scene with Don describing the car, describing ownership and desire... It was powerful stuff.
Pete is such a weasel.
posted by mochapickle at 10:16 AM on January 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
How they interspersed the scene with Don describing the car, describing ownership and desire... It was powerful stuff.
Pete is such a weasel.
posted by mochapickle at 10:16 AM on January 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
God, that scene when Don kisses Peggy's hand. I can't ever make it through without sobbing... I think because it's a powerful moment on its own, but it's also so cathartic after having to watch everything with Joan.
I agree.
I think the hand-kiss is so powerful because we know what Peggy is about to say, and Don is being such a condescending ass up to that point. "I can't put a girl on Jaguar." "I'm impressed that you finally pick the right moment to ask for a raise." "Let's pretend that I'm not responsible for every single good thing that's ever happened to you." She puts out her hand, and he's finally humbled.
The Kinks sting as Peggy is getting on the elevator is maybe my favorite thing in Mad Men ever.
posted by donajo at 7:38 AM on January 10, 2015 [4 favorites]
I agree.
I think the hand-kiss is so powerful because we know what Peggy is about to say, and Don is being such a condescending ass up to that point. "I can't put a girl on Jaguar." "I'm impressed that you finally pick the right moment to ask for a raise." "Let's pretend that I'm not responsible for every single good thing that's ever happened to you." She puts out her hand, and he's finally humbled.
The Kinks sting as Peggy is getting on the elevator is maybe my favorite thing in Mad Men ever.
posted by donajo at 7:38 AM on January 10, 2015 [4 favorites]
When creepy, stinky, fat Herb tells Joan, "I thought a woman with your complexion would look good in emerald" as he puts the necklace around her neck, and then later (and before), when Joan puts on the emerald green robe to greet Don, who she assumes at first has prostituted her. Aaaaaaahhhh...
posted by ChrisTN at 4:50 PM on March 16, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by ChrisTN at 4:50 PM on March 16, 2015 [2 favorites]
I find this episode incredibly compelling because it's about power.
Herb can ask the for to arrange a night with Joan because he has leverage over the partners. That also creates leverage for Joan. Which she uses to her advantage. She seizes the opportunity. It actually really bothers me the way people talk about this episode because Joan has agency, yet somehow people are squicked out by it. It's the partners who are at the whims of others.
posted by dry white toast at 9:59 PM on March 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
Herb can ask the for to arrange a night with Joan because he has leverage over the partners. That also creates leverage for Joan. Which she uses to her advantage. She seizes the opportunity. It actually really bothers me the way people talk about this episode because Joan has agency, yet somehow people are squicked out by it. It's the partners who are at the whims of others.
posted by dry white toast at 9:59 PM on March 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
It's the partners who are at the whims of others.
How so? The partners have agency in whether to meet Herb's demand and in offering Joan a stake in the company.
posted by donajo at 4:01 PM on April 1, 2015
How so? The partners have agency in whether to meet Herb's demand and in offering Joan a stake in the company.
posted by donajo at 4:01 PM on April 1, 2015
Joan's power, really her greatest and foremost character trait, is playing the hell out of awful hands, and this is probably the second-worst hand we've seen her get dealt (Greg being the worst.) I'm finally watching for the first time, and when Pete brings her the offer in his patented asshole way ("Of course we won't ask you to do that but you should be the one to tell everyone we won't get Jaguar") I expected her to demand a Junior Partnership right then and there. With the arc of Season 5 as a whole, it's more powerful that Lane talks her into the tack, but still, I kind of wish she'd gone there all on her own.
I don't buy that she's not 100% exploited here, nor do I think Don's Pontius Pilate routine gets him fully off the hook for it (just about every partner save for Bert has a way of doing just enough to get themselves mentally "off the hook" for it) but I think she uses the moment and the inevitability of it to put herself in a position where maybe that can't ever happen again, and where she will always be in "the room where it happens," so to speak.
Peggy leaving felt cathartic and devastating, because of course she has to go, and Don hasn't be much of a help to her in a long time by this point, but still... damn.
posted by Navelgazer at 4:50 PM on December 27, 2016
I don't buy that she's not 100% exploited here, nor do I think Don's Pontius Pilate routine gets him fully off the hook for it (just about every partner save for Bert has a way of doing just enough to get themselves mentally "off the hook" for it) but I think she uses the moment and the inevitability of it to put herself in a position where maybe that can't ever happen again, and where she will always be in "the room where it happens," so to speak.
Peggy leaving felt cathartic and devastating, because of course she has to go, and Don hasn't be much of a help to her in a long time by this point, but still... damn.
posted by Navelgazer at 4:50 PM on December 27, 2016
(just about every partner save for Bert has a way of doing just enough to get themselves mentally "off the hook" for it)
It's been over three years since I wrote that, but I must have meant every partner except for Pete. Don says no and leaves the room while the discussion is still ongoing, Roger says that he won't stand in the way but won't pay for it (Oh, fucking Roger), Lane talks her into a better deal (that coincidentally won't uncover his malfeasance, he hopes) and Bert makes a point to make sure that she knows she can say no.
This is around as bad as Pete gets, of course. Not only is he doing this (for the company, of course, he'll tell himself) but he's also taking the opportunity to try to get a Manhattan apartment (which we know will be for some undetermined side-piece) and a total asshole to Trudy when she rejects the idea. In an effort to give him the slightest sympathy of a read here (and it's tough) I think he's feeling sick to himself and trying to buy fully into the amorality of his industry that the situation calls for. But Trudy won't let him have the apartment, so in some sense he's still playing at being what he imagines of Don Draper. And he has some trouble squaring that.
posted by Navelgazer at 9:46 PM on February 21, 2020
It's been over three years since I wrote that, but I must have meant every partner except for Pete. Don says no and leaves the room while the discussion is still ongoing, Roger says that he won't stand in the way but won't pay for it (Oh, fucking Roger), Lane talks her into a better deal (that coincidentally won't uncover his malfeasance, he hopes) and Bert makes a point to make sure that she knows she can say no.
This is around as bad as Pete gets, of course. Not only is he doing this (for the company, of course, he'll tell himself) but he's also taking the opportunity to try to get a Manhattan apartment (which we know will be for some undetermined side-piece) and a total asshole to Trudy when she rejects the idea. In an effort to give him the slightest sympathy of a read here (and it's tough) I think he's feeling sick to himself and trying to buy fully into the amorality of his industry that the situation calls for. But Trudy won't let him have the apartment, so in some sense he's still playing at being what he imagines of Don Draper. And he has some trouble squaring that.
posted by Navelgazer at 9:46 PM on February 21, 2020
You are not logged in, either login or create an account to post comments
posted by Sweetie Darling at 8:01 AM on December 31, 2014 [3 favorites]