Wheel of Time: The Dragon Reborn Books Included

November 27, 2021 9:19 PM - Season 1, Episode 4

But the post was a beginning: Moiraine struggles with uncertainty while Lan struggles with their new companion. Rand wonders about Mat. Egwene and Perrin take their first steps down a different path. An incredible new power is unleashed on the world.
posted by nubs (21 comments total)

Not a bad episode, I thought, though Egwene and Perrin amongst the Tinkers is pretty dull. Episode got in some important world building and establishes Nynaeve as a powerful channeler.

So was Moraine really questioning Logain to determine of he was the Dragon Reborn, or just distracting him? And if the former, what changed her mind?
posted by nubs at 9:25 PM on November 27, 2021

The Warders were a delight, and as far as I can tell, the older actors are carrying the show.

I’m guessing Moiraine was simultaneously trying to figure out what made Logain *not* the Dragon and just distract him long enough to have her sisters show up.
posted by tautological at 9:39 PM on November 27, 2021 [3 favorites]

I think that Moiraine was trying to both find that out and also not get herself in trouble with her sisters, so when she saw her sister stirring is when she was like "You are definitely not the Dragon". Then when Nynaeve had her anger-channeling moment, it's when she was like 'alright yep I was right, Logain's not the Dragon, so we can gentle him'.

They seem to be changing some of the beats of the books - I do remember Nynaeve doing some Big Channeling and then everyone being impressed and trying to get her angry, but I don't remember that happening until significantly later - as I recall the channeling prior to the White Tower existed but just wasn't /that/ impressive.

I think one of the problems I'm having is I'm still just, just not feeling a lot of the major characters. Nynaeve always has my attention, as does Moiraine and Thom, but Mat and Rand and Perrin are just leaving me absolutely bored as hell. I'm not really sure if it's the writing or the actors - some part of it may be that some things are fine to read on a page and boring to watch on a screen.

They did drop some important info though that will come up later - particularly about the relationship between an Aes Sedai and her warder, which will become relevant to Nynaeve/Lan later, so that's something at least.

Also: I realized just this episode that Logain is the Professor from Casa de Papel! This is going to make his later escape much more hilarious to me.
posted by corb at 2:03 AM on November 28, 2021 [1 favorite]

I've read that they have already re-cast the actor who plays Mat for the 2nd season. Which is weird to me... Mat is the only one of the younger actors who seems to be doing a decent job. It might be the writing; at least Mat seems to BE a character. He has quirks, attitude and seemingly a motivation! Egwene, Rand and Perrin are just completely dull and boring. Again, it might just be the writing. All the older characters are much better.

Decent episode. Really uneven CG, and I hate to be judgey about CG... but there's so much of it tat it sometimes distracts. But at best, this show is just okay. I'll keep watching as I am curious about the general concept as well as its reception with the Great Online Horde.
posted by SoberHighland at 4:48 AM on November 28, 2021 [3 favorites]

Another decent ep! Now I get what they are trying to do with the "one of you is the dragon" thing. Really setting up exactly how powerful Nynaeve is, which is insanely powerful ofc.

Weak spot: the battle scene. I mean, it felt like, all over the place. Couldn't really tell what was happening, and the power levels of the combatants didn't feel consistent. Also, Lan is supposed to be a huge fucking badass already, but he got pinned by a Trolloc (whom he dispatched) pretty quickly in the fight in the Two Rivers and then did...okay? here, but in the books he's like, a God among Men with a sword. Overall the battle scene like they were disconnected from the environment in a distracting way.

Strong spots: Logain. Holy moly, what a great actor! And the shielding scenes, the madness, the channeling....wow. Just great stuff. Also -- Moiraine, Warders hanging by the fire, Thom fighting the Fade and holding his own even in confined quarters. Great stuff.
posted by lazaruslong at 6:31 AM on November 28, 2021

Whoever designed and executed the opening credits for this show did an amazing job!
posted by Acari at 8:07 AM on November 28, 2021 [1 favorite]

That’s wild that they recast Mat - I agree, he’s the only one of the younger five that I enjoy watching.
posted by tautological at 9:19 AM on November 28, 2021 [2 favorites]

Maybe he wants to do something else? I don't think the problem is with the actor, he's just been given shit-all to actually work with.

The other problem I think of with the 'anyone of any gender can be the Dragon' is it instantly sets up the other Aes Sedai to think it's Nynaeve now, which is...totally out of books and I'm not sure even good?

I suppose one thing that occurs to me is they may realize that this show can never carry 13 seasons, and so they're trying to take beats from all the books and smash them together? Otherwise I just don't understand why they would be doing this.
posted by corb at 10:05 AM on November 28, 2021

Agreed about the older vs younger actors and characters, for the most part. I see people raving about what a great job Marcus Rutherford is doing with Perrin, and he is, but even when well-acted, troubled interiority isn’t much fun to watch.

Agreed the battle wasn’t terribly well shot, though the differing power levels didn’t bother me. Aes Sedai do vary in power level, and it was established in dialogue earlier in the episode that Alanna, Kerene, Liandrin, and Moiraine are considerably stronger than others present (and that only the Green really specialize in battle).

Loved Logain. Loved Kerene. Loved the Warders. Loved to hate Liandrin. I’m pleased we’re finally getting some Tower politics and am excited for more of it.
posted by hippugeek at 10:24 AM on November 28, 2021 [2 favorites]

The other problem I think of with the 'anyone of any gender can be the Dragon' is it instantly sets up the other Aes Sedai to think it's Nynaeve now, which is...totally out of books and I'm not sure even good?

See, I quite like the idea of gender-flipping the true Dragon, although it would require rewriting like.. most of the story to make it work, I guess.

But at the very least it would be a change on yet-another-white-dude-saviour.

What they could do, though, which might align better with the One Power Balance thing that comes up in later books (at least, I think it does?) would be making the Dragon a two-person gig - ie the True Dragon is actually Rando and Ninny, working together.
posted by coriolisdave at 1:12 PM on November 28, 2021

In the world of the show, his heritage is not (socially) privileged, though.

I think this will continue to be a problem. The whole new cultures as a pastiche of existing cultures thing wasn't so great in text and will be even less well received on screen.
posted by Acari at 2:02 PM on November 28, 2021 [2 favorites]

The battle scene is making me try to recall how the Three Oaths were explained a couple of episodes back; I may be confused, but there was something about not using the Power as a weapon except against servants of the dark and in defense of their lives, right? Feels like they could have made it a little clearer how they work to sidestep that Oath.
posted by nubs at 2:15 PM on November 29, 2021

there was something about not using the Power as a weapon except against servants of the dark and in defense of their lives, right

I believe it was about not using the Power to kill except servants of the dark and in defense of their lives. So that's why using a whirlpool to suck down the boat was not considered a violation of the Three Oaths, because the primary purpose was not to kill but to suck down the boat to stop the Trollocs from crossing the river. So for example: they could blow a mountain if their purpose was to stop people from coming after them, and just not think too much about the collateral damage of everyone else the mountain falls on.

However, this is one where I think there may be a significant difference from the books that definitely changes the game: if you look at the book wording of the Oaths, it's
or in the last extreme defense of her life, the life of her Warder, or another Aes Sedai.

Which honestly makes way more sense to stop Artur Hawkwing than the way the show is currently using it. Because as the show interpretation stands, you could drop an Aes Sedai into the front lines of any war, and then they could feel threatened and 'in defense of their life' wage war magic, which you can easily see would not be tolerated and would absolutely be used in literally every war. You'd have countries trying to find and train their own wilders and refusing them to the White Tower, if the White Tower didn't come down like a house on fire on any wilder or Aes Sedai who got involved in a war. It would be a huge, huge problem.

In the show, I'm just not sure that the Aes Sedai even needed to fight here except for the purposes of "it's more dramatic". They could have dropped trees and built barriers, created chasms, and then just kind of chilled while they sent to the White Tower for support. They were absolutely not in danger from an army of 10,000 men - so why bother killing them?
posted by corb at 4:29 PM on November 29, 2021

"Because as the show interpretation stands, you could drop an Aes Sedai into the front lines of any war, and then they could feel threatened and 'in defense of their life' wage war magic..."

I think there's a bit in one of the books where some Aes Sedai actually place themselves on the front lines specifically so they can satisfy that part of the oaths. hell if i'm going to go delving for it tho.
posted by logicpunk at 8:14 PM on November 29, 2021

I really enjoyed this episode. Logain is fantastic, Lan and Nynaeve are wonderful, the greens are badass, the Tuatha'an speech about the turning of the wheel surprisingly moving. I can see why Amazon dropped three initially and then used this to kick off the weekly episodes. Very excited for the rest of the season.

I think there's a bit in one of the books where some Aes Sedai actually place themselves on the front lines specifically so they can satisfy that part of the oat

Yes, this is indeed straight from the books. From the WOT wiki:

Teslyn takes part in the battle between the Seanchan force that is trying to kill Tuon for the one hundred thousand gold crown reward and the Band of the Red Hand. She has to stand near the front ranks in order to feel in danger
posted by Emily's Fist at 5:13 PM on December 1, 2021

Is anybody else having this weird feeling:
They're saying words and names (that I've only ever read and haven't assigned pronunciations to) wrong.

I'm not sure what the right ways are, but I guess I know it when I hear it? Lan's last name sounded right. When I heard it here, I thought "that's even better than my way", but I couldn't imagine what "my way" would sound like.

Or do you guys all have an internal narrator like weirdos?
posted by Acari at 6:34 PM on December 1, 2021 [3 favorites]

All the Wheel of Time I've consumed has been via audiobook, so no. But looking things up in the WoT wiki and finding out how they're actually spelled has resulted in some incredible journeys for me.
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 6:55 PM on December 1, 2021 [2 favorites]

I listened to the audiobook of the first one in an effort to remember what happened before watching the show, and I was very bemused by the “correct” pronunciations of a bunch of names. (I maintain that Egwene’s makes no sense whatsoever based on the spelling.)
posted by tautological at 10:46 PM on December 1, 2021

Just a heads up that if you are relying on consistent pronunciation by Kate and Michael in the audiobooks, you're gonna have a bad time, haha
posted by lazaruslong at 5:44 AM on December 2, 2021 [1 favorite]

Teslyn takes part in the battle between the Seanchan force that is trying to kill Tuon for the one hundred thousand gold crown reward and the Band of the Red Hand. She has to stand near the front ranks in order to feel in danger

Good catch! It could have just been a habit for most of the books then, or kind of a "seemliness" issue.

In interesting news, it seems this is one of the places Sanderson intervened - initially they were going to have the guy on the boat when Moiraine dragged it down.
posted by corb at 1:23 PM on December 2, 2021 [2 favorites]

Yeah! I found that interesting as well.

In case folks don't know already and are interested, here's the direct quote from Brando Sando on the Three Oaths question corb mentions, and the link to the post as well. He may keep doing posts on the episodes too -- if so, here's his reddit profile which should surface those if you check it now and then.

My most relevant lore contribution here probably involved pointing out some Three Oaths issues, and having Rafe go talk to Team Jordan to sort them out. Those are tricky to navigate. For example, it's all right to have a whirlpool made by Moiraine suck down the ferry after Hightower jumped in and swam to it, particularly if she has stopped channeling. It's not okay, though, for her to sink that ferry with lightning while he's on it--even if he's bringing it toward the trollocs, which will put her in danger.

To a lot of writers, those two things would seem very similar, but I'm hyper-sensitive to the three oaths after my tenure on the books. The solution Rafe and I hashed out after he'd talked to Maria works well enough, I think.

posted by lazaruslong at 5:32 AM on December 3, 2021 [2 favorites]