The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power: The Eye
October 7, 2022 5:19 AM - Season 1, Episode 7 - Subscribe
Survivors of a cataclysm try to find safety; the Harfoots confront evil; Durin is torn between friendship and duty; Adar considers a new name.
An understandably sedate episode after the many battles and tension of the previous one. Our heroes are lost, with victory snatched from their jaws. There is little they can do to fix the Southlands, or deal with King Durin's denial of help, or the now burnt grove of the Harfoots. All they can do is move forward and bind themselves to each other. Human to Elf, Dwarf to Elf, and Harfoot to Harfoot. What sustains in times of peril are friends and family. These relationships are what will enable to endure, survive, and ultimately thrive.
An understandably sedate episode after the many battles and tension of the previous one. Our heroes are lost, with victory snatched from their jaws. There is little they can do to fix the Southlands, or deal with King Durin's denial of help, or the now burnt grove of the Harfoots. All they can do is move forward and bind themselves to each other. Human to Elf, Dwarf to Elf, and Harfoot to Harfoot. What sustains in times of peril are friends and family. These relationships are what will enable to endure, survive, and ultimately thrive.
Celeborn is where in the what now?
posted by hototogisu at 5:52 AM on October 7, 2022 [8 favorites]
posted by hototogisu at 5:52 AM on October 7, 2022 [8 favorites]
Oh he dead. Yup, just totally unalived, not a chance we’ll ever see him.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:25 AM on October 7, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:25 AM on October 7, 2022 [4 favorites]
it only now occurs to me... of all the stories one could choose to tell from Middle Earth, why tell such a downer of a story (and one that we already know how it turns out at that)?
I'll file this one under "preparation for future climate catastrophes"
posted by kokaku at 9:04 AM on October 7, 2022 [1 favorite]
I'll file this one under "preparation for future climate catastrophes"
posted by kokaku at 9:04 AM on October 7, 2022 [1 favorite]
Celeborn is where in the what now?
This ... disappoints ... me ... because ... I ... very ... much ... desired ... to ... see ... him ... again.
posted by The Tensor at 11:02 AM on October 7, 2022 [12 favorites]
This ... disappoints ... me ... because ... I ... very ... much ... desired ... to ... see ... him ... again.
posted by The Tensor at 11:02 AM on October 7, 2022 [12 favorites]
it only now occurs to me... of all the stories one could choose to tell from Middle Earth, why tell such a downer of a story (and one that we already know how it turns out at that)?
Because that's the history of Middle-Earth:
Because that's the history of Middle-Earth:
'So it was indeed,' answered Elrond gravely. 'But my memory reaches back even to the Elder Days. Eärendil was my sire, who was born in Gondolin before its fall; and my mother was Elwing, daughter of Dior, son of Lúthien of Doriath. I have seen three ages in the West of the world, and many defeats, and many fruitless victories.posted by The Tensor at 11:04 AM on October 7, 2022 [4 favorites]
Maybe Sauron is in several bodies, to avoid detection?
I had the exact same thought.
Something going on with that orc sniffing the air next to Galadriel and Theo. Also his outfit was very Numenorean-y.
posted by ishmael at 11:05 AM on October 7, 2022
I had the exact same thought.
Something going on with that orc sniffing the air next to Galadriel and Theo. Also his outfit was very Numenorean-y.
posted by ishmael at 11:05 AM on October 7, 2022
I figured he was wearing looted armor.
posted by The Tensor at 11:32 AM on October 7, 2022
posted by The Tensor at 11:32 AM on October 7, 2022
Could be. My initial thought was that it was Halbrand in disguise. Or his Orc form.
posted by ishmael at 1:13 PM on October 7, 2022
posted by ishmael at 1:13 PM on October 7, 2022
“We might not slay dragons or dig up diamonds, but Harfoots always stick together!” Umm that’s literally what you do not do!!
I was also very confused by Halbrand being at death’s door at one minute, then springing up to ride hundreds if not thousands of miles the next. Weird editing.
posted by adrianhon at 3:26 PM on October 7, 2022 [17 favorites]
I was also very confused by Halbrand being at death’s door at one minute, then springing up to ride hundreds if not thousands of miles the next. Weird editing.
posted by adrianhon at 3:26 PM on October 7, 2022 [17 favorites]
Re Celeborn the episode's Trivia sidebar says "He was last seen marching to a war from which he never returned--but his exact fate remains unknown." No doubt ditto for Isildur.
The shining trio with Eye staff and plate who burned the Harfoot village might be Black Numenoreans or similar. The Trivia says, "There are tales of those of Mankind who have learned to conjure sorcery from the Dark Power."
Oh, and Durin's secret name? It's Jason.
(Haha just kidding!)
posted by mono blanco at 3:37 PM on October 7, 2022 [3 favorites]
The shining trio with Eye staff and plate who burned the Harfoot village might be Black Numenoreans or similar. The Trivia says, "There are tales of those of Mankind who have learned to conjure sorcery from the Dark Power."
Oh, and Durin's secret name? It's Jason.
(Haha just kidding!)
posted by mono blanco at 3:37 PM on October 7, 2022 [3 favorites]
“The tiny villager, much smaller and weaker than you, brandishes his sad little stick at you.”
“I fireball his entire village.”
Okay, yeah, not the Blue Wizards.
posted by Mogur at 5:04 PM on October 7, 2022 [5 favorites]
“I fireball his entire village.”
Okay, yeah, not the Blue Wizards.
posted by Mogur at 5:04 PM on October 7, 2022 [5 favorites]
Wellllllll we need Celeborn back to assault Dol Guldur in like 3,000 years so he better get not-dead quick.
posted by hototogisu at 5:26 PM on October 7, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by hototogisu at 5:26 PM on October 7, 2022 [1 favorite]
Current theory making the rounds is that Celeborn is going to replace Glorfindel's story, where he died but gets special Valaric dispensation to come back to middle earth.
Poor Glorfindel can't get a break. Doesn't appeal to the right demographic, I guess.
posted by ishmael at 5:30 PM on October 7, 2022 [2 favorites]
Poor Glorfindel can't get a break. Doesn't appeal to the right demographic, I guess.
posted by ishmael at 5:30 PM on October 7, 2022 [2 favorites]
Celeborn is *in* Jackson’s films, is he not? I guess that works.
posted by hototogisu at 5:33 PM on October 7, 2022
posted by hototogisu at 5:33 PM on October 7, 2022
Celeborn is in Jackson's films, yes.
The point being that Glorfindel's story got replaced in the Jackson films (by Arwen), and if the theories are correct, then Glorfindel's story is going to be replaced in the Amazon show as well (by Celeborn).
posted by ishmael at 6:02 PM on October 7, 2022 [2 favorites]
The point being that Glorfindel's story got replaced in the Jackson films (by Arwen), and if the theories are correct, then Glorfindel's story is going to be replaced in the Amazon show as well (by Celeborn).
posted by ishmael at 6:02 PM on October 7, 2022 [2 favorites]
"The dwarves delved too greedily and too deep" are you KIDDING ME. The balrog is the fault of the elves.
What I think about it every time Elrond is onscreen: he's Galadriel's son-in-law! Celeborn has to pop up again. He and Galadriel need to have a kid. Maybe this is an Ent situation and they just lost each other? (Tbh I've always really liked the Galadriel/Celeborn relationship. Normally female characters getting named by men is ugh, but Galadriel has always seemed big enough to bear it without insult.)
I really liked the scenes with Galadriel and Theo. The elvish wisdom feels like condescension against adults, but it's sweet with a kid.
In defense of Galadriel: her pitch was that a great evil was awakening in Middle Earth, and she was RIGHT. It sucks for Numenor that they arrived an hour before the volcano erupted instead of an hour after, and I guess she could've told them they weren't really ready for what they faced, but her basic pitch holds up. I like that Miriel understands this, even if no one else seems to.
posted by grandiloquiet at 8:24 PM on October 7, 2022 [5 favorites]
What I think about it every time Elrond is onscreen: he's Galadriel's son-in-law! Celeborn has to pop up again. He and Galadriel need to have a kid. Maybe this is an Ent situation and they just lost each other? (Tbh I've always really liked the Galadriel/Celeborn relationship. Normally female characters getting named by men is ugh, but Galadriel has always seemed big enough to bear it without insult.)
I really liked the scenes with Galadriel and Theo. The elvish wisdom feels like condescension against adults, but it's sweet with a kid.
In defense of Galadriel: her pitch was that a great evil was awakening in Middle Earth, and she was RIGHT. It sucks for Numenor that they arrived an hour before the volcano erupted instead of an hour after, and I guess she could've told them they weren't really ready for what they faced, but her basic pitch holds up. I like that Miriel understands this, even if no one else seems to.
posted by grandiloquiet at 8:24 PM on October 7, 2022 [5 favorites]
Have we figured out who the sinister trio is yet?
There's a whole range of theories about them.
My guess is that they have something to do with Morgoth's death cult.
Eventually Sauron (as Annatar) will convince the Numenoreans to join this cult.
Don't know if it was a nod to the cult, but there was that sculpture in front of the Mount Doom keyslot that looked like the sword-key was skewering a person, similar to images of human sacrifice from various cultures.
posted by ishmael at 9:39 PM on October 7, 2022 [1 favorite]
There's a whole range of theories about them.
My guess is that they have something to do with Morgoth's death cult.
Eventually Sauron (as Annatar) will convince the Numenoreans to join this cult.
Don't know if it was a nod to the cult, but there was that sculpture in front of the Mount Doom keyslot that looked like the sword-key was skewering a person, similar to images of human sacrifice from various cultures.
posted by ishmael at 9:39 PM on October 7, 2022 [1 favorite]
it only now occurs to me... of all the stories one could choose to tell from Middle Earth, why tell such a downer of a story (and one that we already know how it turns out at that)?
It's an interesting question, but then there was a piece about other LOTR shows that were pitched to Amazon once they bought the rights and - to me - it feels like telling the story of the Second Age was absolutely the right one to tell. Nobody needed the Russo Brothers retelling LOTR from Aragorn's POV.
posted by crossoverman at 3:47 AM on October 8, 2022 [2 favorites]
It's an interesting question, but then there was a piece about other LOTR shows that were pitched to Amazon once they bought the rights and - to me - it feels like telling the story of the Second Age was absolutely the right one to tell. Nobody needed the Russo Brothers retelling LOTR from Aragorn's POV.
posted by crossoverman at 3:47 AM on October 8, 2022 [2 favorites]
Jesus, keep The fucking Russo Brothers away from anything I care about.
posted by octothorpe at 7:40 AM on October 8, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by octothorpe at 7:40 AM on October 8, 2022 [3 favorites]
Fun fact, the Quenya version of Celeborn's name is "Teleporno".
Teleporno!
I'll see myself out.
posted by ishmael at 10:13 AM on October 8, 2022 [5 favorites]
Teleporno!
I'll see myself out.
posted by ishmael at 10:13 AM on October 8, 2022 [5 favorites]
Fun fact, the Quenya version of Celeborn's name is "Teleporno".
Ah, the John Waters pitch for a LOTR show.
posted by thivaia at 11:05 AM on October 8, 2022 [6 favorites]
Now that we've seen he has a special connection to trees, I'm putting my chips on Stranger-is-Saruman, and I could see a second meteor bringing Gandalf in to rescue Saruman from his upcoming capture by the cult.
Because another thing this show really ought to do is show us why the only thing in the Jackson trilogy that really seems to make Gandalf damn near shit himself (more than the balrog, more than the Witch-King) is the thought of Sauron getting the One Ring. Hence, Gandalf has to enter the picture before toooo long.
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 8:40 AM on October 9, 2022 [1 favorite]
Because another thing this show really ought to do is show us why the only thing in the Jackson trilogy that really seems to make Gandalf damn near shit himself (more than the balrog, more than the Witch-King) is the thought of Sauron getting the One Ring. Hence, Gandalf has to enter the picture before toooo long.
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 8:40 AM on October 9, 2022 [1 favorite]
The stranger is Sauron, yeah?
I'm leaning more on Halbrand-as-Sauron, actually, because he's a smith, who is now going to hang out with the elves due to his wound, so it makes sense that he might well be the person who is fair and tricksy and gets the rings made.
What I'm not sure about is who the three white...witches? Wizards? are.
posted by corb at 1:25 PM on October 9, 2022 [2 favorites]
I'm leaning more on Halbrand-as-Sauron, actually, because he's a smith, who is now going to hang out with the elves due to his wound, so it makes sense that he might well be the person who is fair and tricksy and gets the rings made.
What I'm not sure about is who the three white...witches? Wizards? are.
posted by corb at 1:25 PM on October 9, 2022 [2 favorites]
What I'm not sure about is who the three white...witches? Wizards? are.
They came off as Internal Affairs "Cops" who are tracking a renegade. Maybe someone wasn't supposed to come shooting down, but did anyway? That might explain the awkward delivery system which seems to have scrambled their memory a bit.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:33 PM on October 9, 2022 [1 favorite]
They came off as Internal Affairs "Cops" who are tracking a renegade. Maybe someone wasn't supposed to come shooting down, but did anyway? That might explain the awkward delivery system which seems to have scrambled their memory a bit.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:33 PM on October 9, 2022 [1 favorite]
I'm leaning more on Halbrand-as-Sauron, actually, because he's a smith, who is now going to hang out with the elves due to his wound, so it makes sense that he might well be the person who is fair and tricksy and gets the rings made.
Also? He's got this weird little pouch with something inside it that makes people keep befriending him, trusting him, and, you know, declaring him king on short notice and thin evidence.
posted by The Tensor at 12:35 AM on October 10, 2022 [12 favorites]
Also? He's got this weird little pouch with something inside it that makes people keep befriending him, trusting him, and, you know, declaring him king on short notice and thin evidence.
posted by The Tensor at 12:35 AM on October 10, 2022 [12 favorites]
I really really want Halbrand to be just Some Guy. He is from the Southlands, and he did run away, and maybe he was a smith, and he picked up that pouch somewhere sketch, and that's it. He has never claimed outright to be the Lost King.
I just want him to be Some Dude. Bullshitting his way through.
This story needs some air: if they are going to change so much, I want to spend less time drawing connections to the legacy characters, and let the new ones develop in interesting ways.
posted by suelac at 9:16 AM on October 10, 2022 [9 favorites]
I just want him to be Some Dude. Bullshitting his way through.
This story needs some air: if they are going to change so much, I want to spend less time drawing connections to the legacy characters, and let the new ones develop in interesting ways.
posted by suelac at 9:16 AM on October 10, 2022 [9 favorites]
We’ve sort of transitioned into celebrating the cheesiness of this show. So many things are so completely wrong it is hilarious: harfoots thinking they don’t leave anyone behind (instead of just spinning it like, when something bad happens they just move on, which would be totally consistent with what we’ve seen), princess don’t let them know I’m blind wearing a blindfold in the next scene to make sure everyone watching the show knows/remembers she’s blind, soured wound king galloping away a minute later, nocturnal orcs having a totally ineffective sense of smell, etc., etc. Why couldn’t Adar or someone just say let’s call it Mordor? Like, the writers couldn’t figure out a way to get it into the dialog after having someone already say you’re king of the southland and someone else say it isn’t that anymore? I do enjoy the show a lot more having accepted the silliness of it all. I imagine it will someday be shorthand for the collapse of the prestige tv bubble or something. We’re still in the first season, imagine what this show will be like in a few years!
posted by snofoam at 6:26 PM on October 10, 2022 [10 favorites]
posted by snofoam at 6:26 PM on October 10, 2022 [10 favorites]
“We might not slay dragons or dig up diamonds, but Harfoots always stick together!” Umm that’s literally what you do not do!!
I was yelling at the tv when this line rolled out. I found their practice of leaving harfoots (harfeet?) behind who couldn't keep up shocking. The brutality of it plays against their innocent sweetness really well as a way to give depth to the race. But it is a harsh way to live.
Consigning Largo to the end of the migration with a broken ankle was a death sentence. The list of those left behind that they read before the migration was a list of family members and friends who died alone, scared, in pain. That shit is darker than any of the Modor nonsense this show wants us to be so wound up about.
posted by jeoc at 7:42 PM on October 10, 2022 [9 favorites]
I was yelling at the tv when this line rolled out. I found their practice of leaving harfoots (harfeet?) behind who couldn't keep up shocking. The brutality of it plays against their innocent sweetness really well as a way to give depth to the race. But it is a harsh way to live.
Consigning Largo to the end of the migration with a broken ankle was a death sentence. The list of those left behind that they read before the migration was a list of family members and friends who died alone, scared, in pain. That shit is darker than any of the Modor nonsense this show wants us to be so wound up about.
posted by jeoc at 7:42 PM on October 10, 2022 [9 favorites]
>> The stranger is Sauron, yeah?The suggestion from last thread that Sauron is Nori, or possibly Berek the Horse, has greatly enriched my enjoyment of this show. (Like did you see the way that horse defied the Númenóreans and rode off to claim its black throne? The evidence for Dark Lord Berek is mounting.)
> I'm leaning more on Halbrand-as-Sauron
posted by Syllepsis at 9:56 PM on October 10, 2022 [5 favorites]
Why couldn’t Adar or someone just say let’s call it Mordor? Like, the writers couldn’t figure out a way to get it into the dialog after having someone already say you’re king of the southland and someone else say it isn’t that anymore?
I interpret that moment as follows: it was written such that Adar would get his dreamy look, we'd go to the wide shot of Mt. Doom, and leave it to the audience's intellect to fill in the ominous silence. But then in the editing room, somebody decided that audiences have no intellect and slapped on some clumsy text.
Another theory that I like even less is that they wanted to artificially engineer a meme, and that's why they chose an approach this insulting artless "quirky!".
(I enjoy this show a lot but its flaws are definitely starting to crystallize. The PJ LOTR trilogy had serious flaws too, but not the same flaws. (And needless to say, this show is a lot less flawed than the Hobbit trilogy (so far).))
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 3:44 AM on October 11, 2022 [2 favorites]
I interpret that moment as follows: it was written such that Adar would get his dreamy look, we'd go to the wide shot of Mt. Doom, and leave it to the audience's intellect to fill in the ominous silence. But then in the editing room, somebody decided that audiences have no intellect and slapped on some clumsy text.
Another theory that I like even less is that they wanted to artificially engineer a meme, and that's why they chose an approach this
(I enjoy this show a lot but its flaws are definitely starting to crystallize. The PJ LOTR trilogy had serious flaws too, but not the same flaws. (And needless to say, this show is a lot less flawed than the Hobbit trilogy (so far).))
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 3:44 AM on October 11, 2022 [2 favorites]
I was yelling at the tv when this line rolled out. I found their practice of leaving harfoots (harfeet?) behind who couldn't keep up shocking. The brutality of it plays against their innocent sweetness really well as a way to give depth to the race. But it is a harsh way to live.
Yeah, I really don't like this part of the harfoot storyline.
The whole "we will leave you behind if you break a leg or lose your wagon" thing in fantasy is usually the rule of people forced to live in extremely thin survival margins. Like, a tribe of desert dwelling nomads that can't afford to spare any water to take care of the injured or super elderly non-contributing tribe members, that sort of thing.
But the harfoots appear to be living in an environment of relative abundance! Sure, they are small and have to hide from big people and predators -- that's life anywhere but the top of the food chain. But beyond that, they are surrounded by water and plants and whatnot.
Not only that, but the first time we see this rule brutally enforced is against an otherwise healthy middle aged male hobbit with a spouse and a family, who turned his ankle slightly. And the tribe has to...consign the entire family to death?
...
No group is going to survive long when they kick out mildly injured families with members capable of manual labor and reproduction. I know this is a fantasy show and all, but I mean....the harfoots would not last more than a generation or two using this bonkers rule, no?
posted by lazaruslong at 5:10 AM on October 11, 2022 [1 favorite]
Yeah, I really don't like this part of the harfoot storyline.
The whole "we will leave you behind if you break a leg or lose your wagon" thing in fantasy is usually the rule of people forced to live in extremely thin survival margins. Like, a tribe of desert dwelling nomads that can't afford to spare any water to take care of the injured or super elderly non-contributing tribe members, that sort of thing.
But the harfoots appear to be living in an environment of relative abundance! Sure, they are small and have to hide from big people and predators -- that's life anywhere but the top of the food chain. But beyond that, they are surrounded by water and plants and whatnot.
Not only that, but the first time we see this rule brutally enforced is against an otherwise healthy middle aged male hobbit with a spouse and a family, who turned his ankle slightly. And the tribe has to...consign the entire family to death?
...
No group is going to survive long when they kick out mildly injured families with members capable of manual labor and reproduction. I know this is a fantasy show and all, but I mean....the harfoots would not last more than a generation or two using this bonkers rule, no?
posted by lazaruslong at 5:10 AM on October 11, 2022 [1 favorite]
We’ve sort of transitioned into celebrating the cheesiness of this show. So many things are so completely wrong it is hilarious:
Just gonna share my thoughts about how I see things, not looking to start an argument!
harfoots thinking they don’t leave anyone behind (instead of just spinning it like, when something bad happens they just move on, which would be totally consistent with what we’ve seen),
That looks and sounds like a white lie they tell themselves to keep things going, but everyone knows the truth: if you can't carry your own weight, you're dragging down the group and they can't have that. It's cold, but practical. Plus I'm betting that slowly changes because of Nori and the stranger.
princess don’t let them know I’m blind wearing a blindfold in the next scene to make sure everyone watching the show knows/remembers she’s blind,
Well yeah. The queen wants to be regal and inspiring after a terrible defeat, but later comes to terms with her blindness, that everyone knows, and there's no sense in trying to hide it.
soured wound king galloping away a minute later,
Totally with you here, I was expecting him to be loaded into a cart that would be pulled by Galadriel on horse, but ok then. At least Bronwyn's survival was explained by using Elf medicine
nocturnal orcs having a totally ineffective sense of smell, etc., etc.
Touche!
Why couldn’t Adar or someone just say let’s call it Mordor?
This was, without a doubt, one of the oddest choices I've seen in a story. It was going along brilliantly, with Adar not answering and looking thoughtful, then the ridiculous titles appea and change to Mordor. That felt stunningly amateurish and hope to never see anything like that again, ever.
I'm still enjoying the show a lot, but do admit that it's leaning on narrative cliches and conventions a bit too much. But I'm mostly here for the characters at this point, they're excellent.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:03 AM on October 11, 2022 [2 favorites]
Just gonna share my thoughts about how I see things, not looking to start an argument!
harfoots thinking they don’t leave anyone behind (instead of just spinning it like, when something bad happens they just move on, which would be totally consistent with what we’ve seen),
That looks and sounds like a white lie they tell themselves to keep things going, but everyone knows the truth: if you can't carry your own weight, you're dragging down the group and they can't have that. It's cold, but practical. Plus I'm betting that slowly changes because of Nori and the stranger.
princess don’t let them know I’m blind wearing a blindfold in the next scene to make sure everyone watching the show knows/remembers she’s blind,
Well yeah. The queen wants to be regal and inspiring after a terrible defeat, but later comes to terms with her blindness, that everyone knows, and there's no sense in trying to hide it.
soured wound king galloping away a minute later,
Totally with you here, I was expecting him to be loaded into a cart that would be pulled by Galadriel on horse, but ok then. At least Bronwyn's survival was explained by using Elf medicine
nocturnal orcs having a totally ineffective sense of smell, etc., etc.
Touche!
Why couldn’t Adar or someone just say let’s call it Mordor?
This was, without a doubt, one of the oddest choices I've seen in a story. It was going along brilliantly, with Adar not answering and looking thoughtful, then the ridiculous titles appea and change to Mordor. That felt stunningly amateurish and hope to never see anything like that again, ever.
I'm still enjoying the show a lot, but do admit that it's leaning on narrative cliches and conventions a bit too much. But I'm mostly here for the characters at this point, they're excellent.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:03 AM on October 11, 2022 [2 favorites]
Why couldn’t Adar or someone just say let’s call it Mordor?
This was, without a doubt, one of the oddest choices I've seen in a story.
That name change would have worked better if they returned to the convention of switching to the map view that they've already established.
Two moments in this episode, that name change moment and the moment where Elendil doesn't respond to the queen and we pan out to see that he is weeping, both feel like last minute decisions that were slapped together. Both felt sloppy and totally took me out of the show for a sec.
posted by ishmael at 7:59 AM on October 11, 2022 [2 favorites]
This was, without a doubt, one of the oddest choices I've seen in a story.
That name change would have worked better if they returned to the convention of switching to the map view that they've already established.
Two moments in this episode, that name change moment and the moment where Elendil doesn't respond to the queen and we pan out to see that he is weeping, both feel like last minute decisions that were slapped together. Both felt sloppy and totally took me out of the show for a sec.
posted by ishmael at 7:59 AM on October 11, 2022 [2 favorites]
did you see the way that horse defied the Númenóreans and rode off to claim its black throne?
I have to say I'm actually enjoying considering this show as "Isildur: A Horse Girl's Story". He's had to live some life, the horse and he have had some issues, but now the horse is going to go save his life and he will NEVER BE WITHOUT BEREK AGAIN. I assume mane braiding will be next. This is the Silmarillion version of Misty of Chincoteague.
posted by corb at 8:06 AM on October 11, 2022 [16 favorites]
I have to say I'm actually enjoying considering this show as "Isildur: A Horse Girl's Story". He's had to live some life, the horse and he have had some issues, but now the horse is going to go save his life and he will NEVER BE WITHOUT BEREK AGAIN. I assume mane braiding will be next. This is the Silmarillion version of Misty of Chincoteague.
posted by corb at 8:06 AM on October 11, 2022 [16 favorites]
The suggestion from last thread that Sauron is Nori, or possibly Berek the Horse, has greatly enriched my enjoyment of this show.
I'm still open to the idea that Theo could turn. What are the odds that Bezos' napkin note to the showrunners was literally "We gotta give Sauron an arc!"
posted by ishmael at 8:38 AM on October 11, 2022 [1 favorite]
I'm still open to the idea that Theo could turn. What are the odds that Bezos' napkin note to the showrunners was literally "We gotta give Sauron an arc!"
posted by ishmael at 8:38 AM on October 11, 2022 [1 favorite]
This is the Silmarillion version of Misty of Chincoteague.
Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
i would watch this so hard
posted by lazaruslong at 8:45 AM on October 11, 2022 [6 favorites]
Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
i would watch this so hard
posted by lazaruslong at 8:45 AM on October 11, 2022 [6 favorites]
I'm still open to the idea that Theo could turn.
yeah, he nicked himself with the black shard earlier on. surely that's chekhov's needlestick?
posted by lalochezia at 8:28 PM on October 11, 2022 [2 favorites]
Theo would be such a disappointing choice.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:55 PM on October 11, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:55 PM on October 11, 2022 [5 favorites]
That name change would have worked better if they returned to the convention of switching to the map view that they've already established.
Yeah, I'm trying to be fair in that I didn't realize Bronwyn was living in the lands of pre-devastation Mordor until I read it on FanFare...but even if someone hadn't realized that yet, the show went in a very hammy direction with that reveal. I am enjoying the show, but the writers seem to work under a giant sign that says THE AUDIENCE IS STUPID, SO EVERYTHING NEEDS TO BE VERY OBVIOUS. For that reason, sadly, I cannot believe Berek the horse is Sauron...unless they have him pause meaningfully by a blacksmith shop, or menace a hobbit.
posted by grandiloquiet at 7:11 AM on October 12, 2022 [2 favorites]
Yeah, I'm trying to be fair in that I didn't realize Bronwyn was living in the lands of pre-devastation Mordor until I read it on FanFare...but even if someone hadn't realized that yet, the show went in a very hammy direction with that reveal. I am enjoying the show, but the writers seem to work under a giant sign that says THE AUDIENCE IS STUPID, SO EVERYTHING NEEDS TO BE VERY OBVIOUS. For that reason, sadly, I cannot believe Berek the horse is Sauron...unless they have him pause meaningfully by a blacksmith shop, or menace a hobbit.
posted by grandiloquiet at 7:11 AM on October 12, 2022 [2 favorites]
I really really want Halbrand to be just Some Guy.
Theo would be such a disappointing choice.
I agree with these sentiments, but mostly because of the execution of the show.
I can imagine a show that is better plotted, and pulling the hat trick of subverting our expectations while being logically consistent and not overturning lore to fit their plot twists.
I like the idea of portraying the premise that evil does not come from the places that we expect it to, and that our notions of what is "evil" are reflected back to us and perhaps makes us reconsider the narrative we tell ourselves.
The Adar story almost got there- doesn't really hold together plot-wise, but it gets the tone right.
posted by ishmael at 8:22 AM on October 12, 2022 [1 favorite]
Theo would be such a disappointing choice.
I agree with these sentiments, but mostly because of the execution of the show.
I can imagine a show that is better plotted, and pulling the hat trick of subverting our expectations while being logically consistent and not overturning lore to fit their plot twists.
I like the idea of portraying the premise that evil does not come from the places that we expect it to, and that our notions of what is "evil" are reflected back to us and perhaps makes us reconsider the narrative we tell ourselves.
The Adar story almost got there- doesn't really hold together plot-wise, but it gets the tone right.
posted by ishmael at 8:22 AM on October 12, 2022 [1 favorite]
Why couldn’t Adar or someone just say let’s call it Mordor?
The thing that bothers me is that they were calling it "The Southlands" and not, for example, "Hyarmenor," and then they go and call it "Mordor" and not "The Darklands" when they change the name. Pick a language, show!
Also, changing the name from "The Southlands" to "The Darklands" is a little on the nose. You don't really need an elf to come up with a name change like that, so my headcanon is that after Adar just sort of sat there silently, the orcs came up with the name and then edited it into the clouds.
posted by surlyben at 10:59 PM on October 15, 2022 [1 favorite]
The thing that bothers me is that they were calling it "The Southlands" and not, for example, "Hyarmenor," and then they go and call it "Mordor" and not "The Darklands" when they change the name. Pick a language, show!
Also, changing the name from "The Southlands" to "The Darklands" is a little on the nose. You don't really need an elf to come up with a name change like that, so my headcanon is that after Adar just sort of sat there silently, the orcs came up with the name and then edited it into the clouds.
posted by surlyben at 10:59 PM on October 15, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by carmicha at 7:19 PM on November 22, 2022
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That said, not thrilled with Disa's pushing of Durin to defy his father. I understand and appreciate the development in the character, but I so wanted this fictional character to be perfect. That she isn't makes sense and adds depth to the character, but still...
The stranger is Sauron, yeah? Earlier Adar commented that Sauron tried to heal Middle Earth, which the stranger is clearly doing. But there's still the shadiness of Halbrand. Adar recognized him to some extent and we haven't been told what he did in the past or what was done to him. Finally, it's super odd (and narratively clumsy) that people only are referring to Halbrand as king, with no name given. Maybe Sauron is in several bodies, to avoid detection?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:32 AM on October 7, 2022 [4 favorites]