She-Hulk: Attorney at Law: Whose Show is This?

October 13, 2022 2:17 AM - Season 1, Episode 9

This will appear on the front page. #META She-Hulk smashes the MCU.

This will be the "more inside" area. Feel free to add a short summary, mention major themes, and share spoilers. Optional. #META

In this Fanfare post about the season finale of She-Hulk: Attorney At Law, I am coming to terms with the fact that the MCU is run by a bot. That Jen knows we are waiting for the X-Men. And that she smashes bad guys, bad endings and Matt Murdock.

That Marvel knows they centre daddy issues and are scared of sex. And that their formula always turns things up to 100 when they could easily just have the lead send the whiny man-baby bad guy to jail.

I love this ending because it will upset the man-babies on the internet - because all their theories are smashed. Again. And it was about a woman taking charge of her own life within the confines of a multiverse run by an A.I.

posted by crossoverman (63 comments total)

K.E.V.I.N.

Knowledge
Enhanced
Visually
Interconnected
Nexus

[You're welcome]
posted by Faintdreams at 3:10 AM on October 13, 2022 [4 favorites]

Really like how the Lou Ferrigno analog is the real life She-Hulk 'stand in' for the real life She-Hulk show.

Also Jen really rocks a seventies wardrobe!
posted by Faintdreams at 3:12 AM on October 13, 2022 [7 favorites]

Great ending; from how sucky it felt when Todd started transforming (rather than having a stroke or something, which I was hoping for), then the fourth wall breaking, to the family BBQ .

Two observations:

• The subtitles changed from Kevin to K.E.V.I.N. when the receptionist mentioned him, which did kinda spoil the reveal.
• The end watercolours show Emil putting his tracker on the chicken Princess Silkfeather mentioned previously in episode seven when he blamed her on leading him to an electric fence.

posted by Marticus at 3:29 AM on October 13, 2022 [6 favorites]

Great ending !! Loved the whole MCU can't write endings bit.
posted by Pendragon at 3:40 AM on October 13, 2022

I loved it so much. It did all the things.

I really want a season 2. And a season 3. I just want more of this show.
posted by edencosmic at 6:04 AM on October 13, 2022 [4 favorites]

This was a hoot. I loved the Disney+ menu screen and Shulkie climbing out of it, much like how she sometimes climbed out of the comic book panels.
posted by Fleebnork at 7:00 AM on October 13, 2022 [7 favorites]

This all went very Deadpool, with the fourth-wall destruction. I enjoyed it.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 7:09 AM on October 13, 2022 [1 favorite]

The subtitles changed from Kevin to K.E.V.I.N. when the receptionist mentioned him, which did kinda spoil the reveal.

It showed up as K.E.V.I.N. for me from the first time it was mentioned, in the writer's room.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 7:11 AM on October 13, 2022 [5 favorites]

This all went very Deadpool
She-Hulk was like this before Deadpool's 1st appearance.
(Deadpool: 1991; John Byrne's Sensational She-Hulk: 1989)

Ryan Reynolds just made a big splash announcing Hugh Jackman for Deadpool 3.
Shulkie just asked KEVIN about the X-Men by name.
Can't wait to see Reynolds' response.

This feels like a Chuck Jones Looney Tunes battle.
Clearly, we need a crossover.
posted by cheshyre at 7:54 AM on October 13, 2022 [11 favorites]

She-Hulk was like this before Deadpool's 1st appearance.
(Deadpool: 1991; John Byrne's Sensational She-Hulk: 1989)

Ah, that's cool! I basically had no knowledge about She-Hulk before this show.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 8:05 AM on October 13, 2022 [2 favorites]

I have to cackle at how out of place Matt was.

I kinda want another season (I mean, more of this than whatever it is that's happening on Loki) but I do preemptively worry that the stunty bits would wear off - for now i forgive the narrative shortcut of that ending but i do want to see eventually an in-universe Jen Walters solution.
posted by cendawanita at 8:19 AM on October 13, 2022 [4 favorites]

Beautiful. Wonderful. A++ show. Got weirdly choked up/emotional at the "My life fell apart JUST at the moment I was able to balance both Jen and She-Hulk" line.
posted by ssmith at 8:57 AM on October 13, 2022 [1 favorite]

I enjoyed the callout about how annoying the D+ interface can be. And, for your enjoyment, some panels of her pulling the same stunt in the comics.

I began to call BS when Todd just got the bonus Hulk package (no rampage, no need to control himself, no need for the genetic anomaly that allows Bruce's relatives to metabolize GAMMA) and was glad that Jen rightly got that retconned out.

I also felt happy for Matt who got to experience Jen's big extended family time, because part of his life sucking is the way he got orphaned at a young age and didn't get the supportive (and, sure, critical and annoying and oversharing) family experience. Jen has to be the least toxic hook-up he's had, ever.
posted by Karmakaze at 9:30 AM on October 13, 2022 [12 favorites]

It showed up as K.E.V.I.N. for me from the first time it was mentioned, in the writer's room.

Specifically, Writer Jessica says, “This is the story that K.E.V.I.N. wants.”

Jen replies, “Okay, then I want to talk to Kevin.”

Even after she has met K.E.V.I.N., he remains Kevin in her closed captioning.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 9:48 AM on October 13, 2022 [3 favorites]

In rewatching the scene, I did like Jen asking K.E.V.I.N., “Oh, and when are we getting X-Men?” and throwing a quick little thumbs-up to the viewer.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 9:51 AM on October 13, 2022 [4 favorites]

The whole main bit here is an homage to John Byrne's run on She-Hulk (which establishes a lot of the tone of this show). There's an issue where Jen says "okay, this villain is stupid," and literally tears through the pages of her own comic to skip to the end.

I was hoping for exactly this sort of homage. I really was. I did not expect them to directly address and even concede major criticisms of the MCU, in the text of an MCU production. Marvel comics would do that all the time back in the day (and maybe still does, IDK). I did not think the MCU/Disney had it in them to do that, but here we are.

She-Hulk stuck the landing. Fucking brilliant. This may be my favorite thing Marvel has ever done and I'm so happy.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:09 AM on October 13, 2022 [27 favorites]

The only complaint I have is we don’t know if and when a season 2 will happen.

What a fantastic ending!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:37 PM on October 13, 2022 [3 favorites]

OMG that was fantastic.

I might be more coherent tomorrow.
posted by damsel with a dulcimer at 2:51 PM on October 13, 2022 [1 favorite]

Fun fact: she-hulk writer John Byrne was at the family bbq at the end.
posted by jeoc at 3:36 PM on October 13, 2022 [24 favorites]

Oh, to have someone talk about me the way Jen talked about Matt.
posted by Quonab at 5:02 PM on October 13, 2022 [5 favorites]

This was a solid season of TV. I like that they subverted expectations and I also really appreciate that there wasn’t a cliffhanger ending leading into a different movie/series. It was more or less self-contained. I’ve never watched Orphan Black and I’m gonna try and correct that oversight now. Tatiana Maslany is great.
posted by wabbittwax at 5:02 PM on October 13, 2022 [3 favorites]

Pug was hilarious in this episode. I, uh, don't fully understand why Jen was in legal trouble? She smashed up a very expensive TV, which means she might get sued by whoever owns it, but I don't see how that necessarily translated into risk of jail time. Perhaps this is a case of being overly lawyered up when an aggressive PR representative would haved served her better.

Looks....like I was wrong about never seeing Daredevil again. And I enjoyed the KEVIN bit! When are we getting X-Men?
posted by grandiloquiet at 6:22 PM on October 13, 2022 [1 favorite]

My favourite recent Marvel property. Daredevil is now in second place.
posted by porpoise at 6:33 PM on October 13, 2022 [2 favorites]

I, uh, don't fully understand why Jen was in legal trouble? She smashed up a very expensive TV, which means she might get sued by whoever owns it, but I don't see how that necessarily translated into risk of jail time.

There's been a persistent thread through the last Spider-Man movie, Ms. Marvel, and now this show, in which the Department of Damage Control has really gone overboard and (especially in the case of their chasing Kamala through Jersey City) probably made the situation worse. I'm assuming that at some point that's all going to come to a head, but who knows when or how or what the upshot will be.

Loved this so much. I was kind of expecting K.E.V.I.N. to be Kevin Feige himself transformed into a MODOK by CGI, but I'll settle for basically-benevolent GLaDOS.
posted by Halloween Jack at 7:51 PM on October 13, 2022 [7 favorites]

Okay, so that embarrassing clip of Jen dancing isn't literally from one of the post-credit sequences from Orphan Black (some spoilers for the show at that link) where Maslany had a dance party with herself playing four characters at once.

But it seems surely an homage to it given her Cosima hair and the frizzy blond in the background.
posted by straight at 8:13 PM on October 13, 2022 [14 favorites]

I ABSOLUTELY thought the same. That was my Leo.gif shriek of delight.
posted by cendawanita at 8:51 PM on October 13, 2022 [4 favorites]

But seriously though, for the comics-aware folks, how is it it's this show that gave Jen such an awesome bestie? Is there no characters in her slate? On that note I genuinely enjoyed how none of her comics female antagonist became so or were basically not positioned as the main baddie (Titania came closest but it's still incel Todd that basically played the actual long game).
posted by cendawanita at 9:10 PM on October 13, 2022

Is it just me, or did K.E.V.I.N.'s chassis look like the brim of a baseball cap?
posted by RakDaddy at 9:12 PM on October 13, 2022 [7 favorites]

Not just you, it was really clear in the closing credits watercolor painting.
posted by donatella at 10:39 PM on October 13, 2022 [4 favorites]

But it seems surely an homage to it given her Cosima hair and the frizzy blond in the background.

My immediate thought was that AOC dance video.
posted by Pendragon at 5:12 AM on October 14, 2022 [6 favorites]

Given that Jen was basically jailed for displaying superpowers in public, I am now in the odd position of wondering whether half the problem with Titania is that she was being similarly railroaded. It would add depth to her motivation. (Still does not justify her behavior, but adds a layer to it.)
posted by Karmakaze at 6:18 AM on October 14, 2022 [1 favorite]

I really, really enjoyed this series, and loved the ending. I can't think of many people who could have pulled it off the way Maslany did. She's an incredible talent.
posted by synecdoche at 7:01 AM on October 14, 2022 [1 favorite]

We need to get Tatiana Maslany and Kristen Bell in a room together. Maybe have Kristen as a lawyer minion of the "sexy skyscraper" Jameela Jamil. "At least we're all in a Good Place," winks Tatiana.
posted by SPrintF at 9:04 AM on October 14, 2022 [9 favorites]

Loved the episode, especially the shot-by-shot homage to the original Hulk TV series. I was howling.

Now that we've reached the end of the series, I have but one real complaint (aside from "it's over.") -- I don't think that Jameela Jamil was particularly well-used in the series. Titania was less fun and interesting than she could've been. The writers put more heart into Madisynn than Titania, IMO. I was really excited to see Jameela coming into the MCU and expected a lot more.

But that's really my only bone to pick, when all's done and said. It was a fun ride, full of lampshades and absolutely obliterating the 4th wall. I hope She-Hulk is going to be getting a season 2 and plenty of time in other MCU properties.

Also, much more Wong. If anybody from Marvel is paying attention, I would totally watch the hell out of a sidekick series with Wong, Madisynn, Ned, Luis... could be low budget (which would please K.E.V.I.N. no doubt) and easy to weave in continuity-wise.
posted by jzb at 11:36 AM on October 14, 2022 [9 favorites]

Specifically, Writer Jessica says, “This is the story that K.E.V.I.N. wants.”

Jen replies, “Okay, then I want to talk to Kevin.”

Even after she has met K.E.V.I.N., he remains Kevin in her closed captioning.

And curiously, when K.E.V.I.N. speaks about themself, it is K-E-V-I-N, in the closed captioning. Far out.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 2:45 PM on October 14, 2022

Whose post is this?
posted by sixswitch at 4:02 PM on October 14, 2022

My favourite recent Marvel property.

Likewise. I saw a comment today from an aging geek friend who is mostly pretty cranky about superhero product, but he confessed he was pleasantly surprised to enjoy a Disney+ with basically no asterisks attached. I myself thought after a series of of shows that ranged from the double play of WandaVision to the bunt of Moon Knight, a grand slam was indeed unexpected.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 4:02 PM on October 14, 2022

I would totally watch the hell out of a sidekick series with Wong, Madisynn, Ned, Luis...

Yeah.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 4:06 PM on October 14, 2022 [3 favorites]

Saw a lot of chatter from folks who were disappointed in the ending - lots of talk about squandered opportunities, etc.

Not expecting something completely weirdly meta out of She-Hulk would be like being upset that an Unbeatable Squirrel Girl arc didn't end in Doreen punching out Thanos/Doom/Kraven instead of the delightfully squirrelly ways they do.

Agree that Titania wasn't as utilized as I'd like, but that's because I like Jameela (Good Place crew gets bonus points from me), but also kinda glad that the overarching villany didn't end up being two "females" against each other. (Poor Pug)
posted by drewbage1847 at 4:15 PM on October 14, 2022 [3 favorites]

But seriously though, for the comics-aware folks, how is it it's this show that gave Jen such an awesome bestie? Is there no characters in her slate?

In the Byrne run her main sidekick (or mentor) is a gray-haired widow who was a superhero in comics published in the 1940s. She enters the She-Hulk series because she's afraid of dying of old age and she realizes that if you're in an actively running comic book, you stop aging. None of that would make any sense in an MCU context unfortunately.
posted by one for the books at 5:47 PM on October 14, 2022 [14 favorites]

They redid the 70s intro chair device, that really got me.
posted by emjaybee at 7:01 PM on October 14, 2022 [6 favorites]

It was the changing-the-tire-in-the-rain bit that did it for me. I don't know why that's the most memorable bit of the 70s-show intro for me, but there it is.

The breaking-out-of-the-show bit this episode didn't fill me with joy, surprisingly – until we met K.E.V.I.N. The idea of the showrunner getting the actual MCU wizard-behind-the-curtain to agree to have an A.I.-driven robot stand in for himself (complete with trademark baseball cap) just put a smile on my face.
posted by skoosh at 7:34 PM on October 14, 2022 [1 favorite]

I was curious how "the Internet" was going to respond to this finale (given how much the show has been about how certain people react to women starring as heroes), so I popped over to a comic forum that I've been known to skim from time to time. I don't know much about the posters there, but I get the sense that they are mostly male and have some degree of comic knowledge.

I was surprised that there really weren't any of the "hurt manbaby" feelings on display. There was some discussion about Jen being the bad-guy for turning in Blonsky (or making him turn himself in). There was some discussion that the finale didn't really feel like a finale and that people wanted one more episode to wrap things up. There was some back and forth about Jen's own legal troubles being resolved too easily. The older comics guys schooled the younger ones who complained about there being too much fourth-wall breaking., but generally, the conversations could have fit into FanFare, so that was a pleasant surprise. I did read one article elsewhere about the lack of a big Hulk vs. Abomination throwdown being a missed opportunity.

Of course I'm not naïve to believe that all of the Internet is responding positively. I'm sure there are dark, creepy places on the Net that I don't visit that are absolutely outraged about what was depicted in the finale. I'm just glad that isn't the universal reaction.

(And yes, that '70s inspired sequence was absolutely perfect!)
posted by sardonyx at 8:41 PM on October 14, 2022 [4 favorites]

I’ve never watched Orphan Black and I’m gonna try and correct that oversight now. Tatiana Maslany is great.

Tatiana Maslany is my favourite living actress, and much as I enjoyed She-Hulk, the CGI is a bit of an obstacle, and something like Orphan Black gives her more opportunities to show off her skills. (She's playing different clones, sometimes impersonating each other - it's a masterclass). She's also very good in the new Perry Mason with Matthew Rhys, another one of my favs.
posted by sohalt at 11:36 PM on October 14, 2022 [5 favorites]

"That's what Hulks do. We smash things. Bruce smashes buildings, I smash fourth walls and bad endings. And sometimes Matt Murdock."

Booyaaaaaaaaaaah!

I enjoyed it. Yeah, there could be some better execution (not sure what the point of Titania was), but I like that this was inventive, and went from the total downer of the beginning to "fuck it, let's fix this." Loved K.E.V.I.N.bot being relatively reasonable to deal with.

Still don't like the ketchup-mustard suit on Daredevil (why piss yellow IRL? Don't tell me "comics" when it looks bad IRL), but he's blind, what does he know. At least he's here to bang and go to a picnic!

I hope it gets a second series, but who knows with all the male haters these days. That said, I enjoyed that this show went after them.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:37 AM on October 15, 2022 [4 favorites]

I would totally watch the hell out of a sidekick series with Wong, Madisynn, Ned, Luis...

I would especially like to see more of Luis. The way they film his anecdotes/flashbacks is just delightful, with all of the characters lip-syncing his voice.
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 11:28 AM on October 15, 2022 [3 favorites]

Thanks, sohalt. I've been rewatching Orphan Black but I hadn't heard of the new Perry Mason. I'm going to have to watch that!
posted by Sing Fool Sing at 1:28 PM on October 15, 2022 [1 favorite]

In Perry Mason she plays a riff on my favorite undersung historical American villian - Aimee Semple McPherson.
posted by drewbage1847 at 3:55 PM on October 15, 2022 [2 favorites]

"Please change offscreen, the artists have moved on to another project" was such a great line in a host of great lines.

So now we know what's behind the Marvel logo, it's KEVIN's lair.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 10:09 PM on October 15, 2022 [10 favorites]

"Please change offscreen, the artists have moved on to another project" was such a great line in a host of great lines.

And they played the Wakanda theme after that line, which is the next piece of near-perfect product formulated by K.E.V.I.N. to drop.

Honestly, the fact this show got away with saying the MCU is formulaic and created to an algorithm is pretty subversive - even if it is tru-facts. I wish this would signal Marvel doing something different with their endings, but even this episode ended with Bruce returning - something Jen specifically asked K.E.V.I.N. not to do, so I don't have high hopes.
posted by crossoverman at 3:33 PM on October 16, 2022 [7 favorites]

How ‘She-Hulk’ Taught the Online Trolls a Lesson [IndieWire]
posted by ellieBOA at 5:55 AM on October 17, 2022 [1 favorite]

Very fun. Kevin Feige is no Ellen McLain, but K.E.V.I.N. will do.

Fourth wall? WHAT FOURTH WALL. A fun ending to a fun series. Like, yes! Fun! These things can be FUN without having ENTIRE-UNIVERSE-AT-RISK continually escalated stakes. Just, yeah, people getting by and getting laid.
posted by rmd1023 at 8:05 AM on October 17, 2022 [1 favorite]

Maybe She-Hulk's world is where MCU heroes can go to chill out. No serious villains, just vibes.
posted by emjaybee at 9:03 AM on October 17, 2022 [4 favorites]

but even this episode ended with Bruce returning - something Jen specifically asked K.E.V.I.N. not to do

Ah, I thought she was specifically complaining about him showing up in the climactic fight scene (as if she couldn’t do her own fighting if that’s what it came to).
posted by nat at 12:22 AM on October 18, 2022 [6 favorites]

but even this episode ended with Bruce returning - something Jen specifically asked K.E.V.I.N. not to do, so I don't have high hopes.

nat is correct above, Jen specifically asked for Bruce not to “swoop down and save the day”. He only shows up at the end to say hi to the family.
posted by Fleebnork at 3:19 PM on October 18, 2022 [1 favorite]

she also says "save it for the movie" and.. Kevin doesn't.
posted by coriolisdave at 4:50 PM on October 18, 2022 [2 favorites]

I suppose that depends on how you define what "it" is. The swooping down and saving the day was saved for the movie.
posted by Fleebnork at 6:14 AM on October 19, 2022

So a comics-loving friend recommended I need to watch this, in spite of my severe MCU burnout, and doubly so after this finale aired. I enjoyed the whole ride except the first episode, but I really can’t fight the feeling of: it’s been so weird watching a Marvel thing that feels like it was written for a target audience old enough to buy cigarettes.

Obviously I adored this finale.
posted by DoctorFedora at 3:32 PM on October 19, 2022

Honestly, if this series does well, can we have a Squirrel Girl series next? Pretty please?
posted by rikschell at 6:51 PM on October 19, 2022 [7 favorites]

I would kill for a Squirrel Girl series. Listening to the podcast with Milana Vayntrub voicing Ms. Green really made me hanker for more.

Trying to think just how people would receive the decidedly left field resolutions that made the North/Henderson series so wonderful.

Don't care - Just want to eat nuts and kick butts
posted by drewbage1847 at 10:40 AM on October 20, 2022 [5 favorites]

Nikki's instruction to Pug to earn the misogyny bros' trust by referring to women as females cracked me up.

I loved this. I liked how it made explicit the usual masculine superhero convention that problems are fixed by fighting, but women are often heroic by being competent and figuring out the underlying problem and just fucking fixing it. Even if that means finding the writers and the robot behind the curtain and giving them a talking to. I identified with it!
posted by medusa at 8:01 AM on October 25, 2022 [1 favorite]

If you watch the scene again, you'll find that Jen says she doesn't want Bruce to swoop in and save the day. Then K.E.V.I.N. starts to say that they were going to introduce a new character in that scene but Jen cuts him off and says, "Save it for the movie." The character reveal, not Bruce simply showing up.
posted by cooker girl at 6:55 PM on October 30, 2022 [1 favorite]

Not only is She-Hulk mighty and nigh invulnerable, she has Looney Tune-level fourth wall powers.
posted by whuppy at 5:53 PM on November 30, 2022 [1 favorite]