Star Trek: Picard: Imposters
March 16, 2023 5:15 AM - Season 3, Episode 5 - Subscribe
Jean-Luc and his allies discover a conspiracy they've always considered to be impossible, and an enemy that doesn't exactly seem to seek peaceful co-existence.
I'm going to step outside so that Memory Alpha can get its trivia straight:
• Worf's list of Sneed's allies includes Morn, Brunt, Thadiun Okona, and Larell.
• Kirk Acevedo (Krinn) played José Ramse in Terry Matalas' 12 Monkeys.
• Daystrom Station's core sections resemble Jupiter Station.
"Your enemy's aggression will always reveal their weakness. You could have sacrificed a move to reveal mine."
"I already know yours. It's talking."
- Worf and Raffi
"Is this a new species?"
"No. It's evolution."
- Ohk and Beverly, on the changeling
"Never imagined a Vulcan being dumb enough to become a gangster."
- Raffi, to Krinn
Poster's Log:
IT'S FUCKEN ROOOOOOOO! This might now be the best Picard episode. Seeing Ro again is enough, but these Ro-versus-Jean-Luc scenes are downright…explosive (too soon?).
The show continues to improve—this episode was exciting, moved things along, capitalized on the well-drawn Ro/JL/Riker relationships from TNG, and had dang near perfect pacing (and is it just me, or was it pretty long?). I could've done with one or two fewer weak tropes: the old "this thing goes all the way to the top!" threat (although it kind of couldn't go any other way), Jack's subliminal-super-killer thing, and maybe most of all, the good ol' mystic warrior death-faking technique (which at least the show didn't insult us by fully explaining (but also, did everybody forget about redundant Klingon anatomy?)).
Poster's Log, Supplemental:
The Intrepid's primary hull is very similar to, and I'm sure meant to be derived from, that of the Sovereign-class Enterprise-E. But I do not like the way the Intrepid's secondary hull attaches to the primary, yeesh. If they were going for "off-putting," mission accomplished.
Who thinks this show will have the guts to have Geordi or Deanna show up as changelings?
I'm going to step outside so that Memory Alpha can get its trivia straight:
• Worf's list of Sneed's allies includes Morn, Brunt, Thadiun Okona, and Larell.
• Kirk Acevedo (Krinn) played José Ramse in Terry Matalas' 12 Monkeys.
• Daystrom Station's core sections resemble Jupiter Station.
"Your enemy's aggression will always reveal their weakness. You could have sacrificed a move to reveal mine."
"I already know yours. It's talking."
- Worf and Raffi
"Is this a new species?"
"No. It's evolution."
- Ohk and Beverly, on the changeling
"Never imagined a Vulcan being dumb enough to become a gangster."
- Raffi, to Krinn
Poster's Log:
IT'S FUCKEN ROOOOOOOO! This might now be the best Picard episode. Seeing Ro again is enough, but these Ro-versus-Jean-Luc scenes are downright…explosive (too soon?).
The show continues to improve—this episode was exciting, moved things along, capitalized on the well-drawn Ro/JL/Riker relationships from TNG, and had dang near perfect pacing (and is it just me, or was it pretty long?). I could've done with one or two fewer weak tropes: the old "this thing goes all the way to the top!" threat (although it kind of couldn't go any other way), Jack's subliminal-super-killer thing, and maybe most of all, the good ol' mystic warrior death-faking technique (which at least the show didn't insult us by fully explaining (but also, did everybody forget about redundant Klingon anatomy?)).
Poster's Log, Supplemental:
The Intrepid's primary hull is very similar to, and I'm sure meant to be derived from, that of the Sovereign-class Enterprise-E. But I do not like the way the Intrepid's secondary hull attaches to the primary, yeesh. If they were going for "off-putting," mission accomplished.
Who thinks this show will have the guts to have Geordi or Deanna show up as changelings?
I think this was my favourite episode (with last week's at close second). I'm sad about Ro, but I agree that her appearance was very well done, and ties in the other subplot in a satisfactory way.
I'm not a huge fan of big dumb conspiracies, but I like them a lot more than time travel, Q, and big dumb AIs, so I'm totally on board for the big dumb conspiracy.
If this whole season is a backdoor pilot for a Titan show with Seven, Shaw and a bunch of new people, I will not complain.
posted by confluency at 7:20 AM on March 16, 2023 [6 favorites]
I'm not a huge fan of big dumb conspiracies, but I like them a lot more than time travel, Q, and big dumb AIs, so I'm totally on board for the big dumb conspiracy.
If this whole season is a backdoor pilot for a Titan show with Seven, Shaw and a bunch of new people, I will not complain.
posted by confluency at 7:20 AM on March 16, 2023 [6 favorites]
This show continues to make me want Captain Shaw and Seven to get a spinoff, though I don't know if Shaw would work as well as a character if he didn't have Picard and Riker to constantly bounce off of.
I remain unimpressed with the Worf/Raffi storyline, though it is improving as it actually starts to connect to the plot. They get the absolute clunker moment of dialogue this week, when Raffi turns to Worf to repeat what they've just been told on the computer about not getting access to Daystrom. Or maybe that was supposed to be a Galaxy Quest reference? (That was not the only moment of "As you know Bob" dialogue this week, but it stood out to me).
The "oh no! Jack killed a bunch of people" only to fade back to Jack standing there, lost in the idea of killing everyone, got old very fast, and now that we know someone has made him into a super-sekret assassin/killing machine, I hope we get on with the who and the why.
I'm liking this more than S2, but it still feels stretched thin in places to me.
posted by nubs at 7:52 AM on March 16, 2023 [1 favorite]
I remain unimpressed with the Worf/Raffi storyline, though it is improving as it actually starts to connect to the plot. They get the absolute clunker moment of dialogue this week, when Raffi turns to Worf to repeat what they've just been told on the computer about not getting access to Daystrom. Or maybe that was supposed to be a Galaxy Quest reference? (That was not the only moment of "As you know Bob" dialogue this week, but it stood out to me).
The "oh no! Jack killed a bunch of people" only to fade back to Jack standing there, lost in the idea of killing everyone, got old very fast, and now that we know someone has made him into a super-sekret assassin/killing machine, I hope we get on with the who and the why.
I'm liking this more than S2, but it still feels stretched thin in places to me.
posted by nubs at 7:52 AM on March 16, 2023 [1 favorite]
did everybody forget about redundant Klingon anatomy?
SRSLY. Then again, not everyone knows about the Kahless super fancy heart stopping technique, so checking for a pulse is always a good thing when confirming if a klingon is actually dead.
That said, I was sitting there watching the scene thinking, "are you kidding me? They aren't going to go and kill off Worf like this are they? ARE THEY?" I guess I didn't have enough trust in the writers not to do something like that for dramatic effect. Yet, at the same time, for as much as Ro was reintroduced and killed within the same 40 minute time span...that was handled surprisingly well. Maybe I should believe in them writers more.
Ro was a nice surprise and the bar scene with Picard was fantastic. Picard out there having some very hefty chips on his shoulder if he's been practicing his Bajoran just so he could hit Ro as hard as possible with his hurt feels.
I'll take evolved Changelings for Starfleet takeover conspiracy over creepy insect bugs, so I guess it's a win? I do think the mystery of what's going on here with the Changelings, with the motivation behind whomever, is working pretty well. Though, I expect, like in Star Trek movie fashion, we aren't going to really have time to examine again how this can show the frailties of Starfleet in the same way DS9 (i.e. the constant sacrifices of liberty at the expense of security). But, since we had DS9, we don't absolutely need it either.
When the Intrepid appeared, I felt it's hull or just the lighting chosen by the show made it appear as a darker ship compared to the Titan. This remained and really was highlighted when she pivoted and prepared to attack. I liked that choice.
I'm still mixed about whatever is going on with Jack. I am supremely happy that he's opening up to his mom, rather than suppressing something obviously alarming as it grows worse and worse. I had a faint idea, with the woman's voice, that somehow Jean Luc had remnant Borg nanobots in his body that were passed on to Jack and it's somehow the Borg Queen's voice he's hearing in his head. This doesn't line up in anyway with the red vines, red light in his eyes, and the weird red door. Racking my brain, I can't remember really what past Trek could be influencing this element of the story (if there is anything they're drawing upon). Either Jack was born a certain way or he was exposed to something while under some mercy mission or another.
Of all things, when I think the color red and creepy vines, I think Stranger Things. Not helpful that.
posted by Atreides at 10:48 AM on March 16, 2023 [1 favorite]
SRSLY. Then again, not everyone knows about the Kahless super fancy heart stopping technique, so checking for a pulse is always a good thing when confirming if a klingon is actually dead.
That said, I was sitting there watching the scene thinking, "are you kidding me? They aren't going to go and kill off Worf like this are they? ARE THEY?" I guess I didn't have enough trust in the writers not to do something like that for dramatic effect. Yet, at the same time, for as much as Ro was reintroduced and killed within the same 40 minute time span...that was handled surprisingly well. Maybe I should believe in them writers more.
Ro was a nice surprise and the bar scene with Picard was fantastic. Picard out there having some very hefty chips on his shoulder if he's been practicing his Bajoran just so he could hit Ro as hard as possible with his hurt feels.
I'll take evolved Changelings for Starfleet takeover conspiracy over creepy insect bugs, so I guess it's a win? I do think the mystery of what's going on here with the Changelings, with the motivation behind whomever, is working pretty well. Though, I expect, like in Star Trek movie fashion, we aren't going to really have time to examine again how this can show the frailties of Starfleet in the same way DS9 (i.e. the constant sacrifices of liberty at the expense of security). But, since we had DS9, we don't absolutely need it either.
When the Intrepid appeared, I felt it's hull or just the lighting chosen by the show made it appear as a darker ship compared to the Titan. This remained and really was highlighted when she pivoted and prepared to attack. I liked that choice.
I'm still mixed about whatever is going on with Jack. I am supremely happy that he's opening up to his mom, rather than suppressing something obviously alarming as it grows worse and worse. I had a faint idea, with the woman's voice, that somehow Jean Luc had remnant Borg nanobots in his body that were passed on to Jack and it's somehow the Borg Queen's voice he's hearing in his head. This doesn't line up in anyway with the red vines, red light in his eyes, and the weird red door. Racking my brain, I can't remember really what past Trek could be influencing this element of the story (if there is anything they're drawing upon). Either Jack was born a certain way or he was exposed to something while under some mercy mission or another.
Of all things, when I think the color red and creepy vines, I think Stranger Things. Not helpful that.
posted by Atreides at 10:48 AM on March 16, 2023 [1 favorite]
For what it's worth, in the subtitles the voice Jack keeps hearing is attributed to a particular individual at least twice in this episode
Beverley [echoing]:and
Find me.
[Beverly's voice]In the late 24th century, does a woman in her 50s really have an unintended pregnancy? What did Beverly do?
[echoing indistinctly]
Beverly:
Jack.
posted by the antecedent of that pronoun at 12:00 PM on March 16, 2023 [9 favorites]
In the words of George Takei: OH MY.
Thanks for sharing! Now I have more questions.
posted by Atreides at 2:12 PM on March 16, 2023
Thanks for sharing! Now I have more questions.
posted by Atreides at 2:12 PM on March 16, 2023
Todd Stashwick posted non-spoilery screenshots a couple of days ago or so that nevertheless had people speculating that they might be facing Admiral Jellico; was not expecting Ro Laren instead. I guess that if you can have a certain other ex-Maquis actually captaining a Starfleet vessel, then I buy this, and even though her appearance was brief, Michelle Forbes made it count. Also glad that Worf's time on this show isn't over, although another kinda-spoilery screenshot that was published a while ago made that seem unlikely. (Also, I totally buy the Kahless-fu trick, as Worf has always been more of an ascetic-type warrior than a party-hearty one, although he can do that, too.)
As for the nanobots/red vines thing, there's a plot development in Star Trek Online that is a very long shot in terms of it maybe tying into this, but I'm mentioning it because of the appearances of STO ships in this series:
posted by Halloween Jack at 2:28 PM on March 16, 2023 [3 favorites]
As for the nanobots/red vines thing, there's a plot development in Star Trek Online that is a very long shot in terms of it maybe tying into this, but I'm mentioning it because of the appearances of STO ships in this series:
at the end of a recent Mirror Universe/Terran Empire event, there was a stinger showing some of the Terrans looking at a Borg cube... that's glowing red instead of green.
posted by Halloween Jack at 2:28 PM on March 16, 2023 [3 favorites]
They brought Ro back just to kill her? Very melodramatic. Thanks, show.
This show is so stuck in the past. I'm glad Riker pointed out that the Maquis are no longer considered traitors but Picard still hates Ro so much for her "betrayal", even though history now sees it differently. (Like, I get why Shaw might still have some trauma from Wolf 359 but having him challenge Picard about it after all these years - I get why Sisko did it a couple of years after losing his wife, but 30 years later? And that scene with Shaw last week was just so overwrought.)
I don't care enough about Jack to be worried about these visions - though the revelation in these comments about who the voice is makes me slightly intrigued.
Is this better than S2? Of course but that's the lowest bar imaginable. I still liked S1 a lot - that felt like a good take on an older Picard. This season is just raking him over the coals so much.
posted by crossoverman at 3:04 PM on March 16, 2023 [3 favorites]
This show is so stuck in the past. I'm glad Riker pointed out that the Maquis are no longer considered traitors but Picard still hates Ro so much for her "betrayal", even though history now sees it differently. (Like, I get why Shaw might still have some trauma from Wolf 359 but having him challenge Picard about it after all these years - I get why Sisko did it a couple of years after losing his wife, but 30 years later? And that scene with Shaw last week was just so overwrought.)
I don't care enough about Jack to be worried about these visions - though the revelation in these comments about who the voice is makes me slightly intrigued.
Is this better than S2? Of course but that's the lowest bar imaginable. I still liked S1 a lot - that felt like a good take on an older Picard. This season is just raking him over the coals so much.
posted by crossoverman at 3:04 PM on March 16, 2023 [3 favorites]
Must be some short generations to evolve that much in a few decades.
posted by Marticus at 3:08 PM on March 16, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Marticus at 3:08 PM on March 16, 2023 [1 favorite]
Hum the mirror universe. From a quick perusal of Memory Alpha, seems like there's not a canon MU version of Beverly Crusher (though there have been in print & online)
It's a bit Fringe and I don't like the idea, but maybe our universe Beverly stole young Jack from MU Beverly. MU Jack happens to be older than indicated by the story she made up for Picard to hear, but she couldn't make up a story in which he was any older than their last encounter. (and there's never been a prime universe Jack, which is why this universe is rejecting him with weird visions hand waving vaguely like what happened to mirror Georgiou)
Still doesn't explain the changelings (though MU changelings could have different powers, they have no beef with the federation and no reason to steal Lore or Moriarty) or a bunch of other plot elements, and I don't really believe it..
posted by the antecedent of that pronoun at 3:31 PM on March 16, 2023 [2 favorites]
It's a bit Fringe and I don't like the idea, but maybe our universe Beverly stole young Jack from MU Beverly. MU Jack happens to be older than indicated by the story she made up for Picard to hear, but she couldn't make up a story in which he was any older than their last encounter. (and there's never been a prime universe Jack, which is why this universe is rejecting him with weird visions hand waving vaguely like what happened to mirror Georgiou)
Still doesn't explain the changelings (though MU changelings could have different powers, they have no beef with the federation and no reason to steal Lore or Moriarty) or a bunch of other plot elements, and I don't really believe it..
posted by the antecedent of that pronoun at 3:31 PM on March 16, 2023 [2 favorites]
now that we know someone has made him into a super-sekret assassin/killing machine, I hope we get on with the who and the why.
Oh, I think we know exactly who.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 4:13 PM on March 16, 2023 [2 favorites]
Oh, I think we know exactly who.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 4:13 PM on March 16, 2023 [2 favorites]
Man, those Ro/Picard scenes. This show is giving me closure for events from thirty years ago I didn’t even know I needed. I somehow feel I can rest easier tonight.
Shaw mentioned the anti-time anomaly in the Devron system, but that was one of Q’s games and never actually happened. Shaw can’t really hold that against Picard.
posted by Servo5678 at 4:19 PM on March 16, 2023 [3 favorites]
Shaw mentioned the anti-time anomaly in the Devron system, but that was one of Q’s games and never actually happened. Shaw can’t really hold that against Picard.
posted by Servo5678 at 4:19 PM on March 16, 2023 [3 favorites]
I'll take evolved Changelings for Starfleet takeover conspiracy over creepy insect bugs
If it turns out those insect bugs are the ones behind all of this it would be so bad but I would love it so much.
posted by PlusDistance at 4:57 PM on March 16, 2023 [14 favorites]
If it turns out those insect bugs are the ones behind all of this it would be so bad but I would love it so much.
posted by PlusDistance at 4:57 PM on March 16, 2023 [14 favorites]
Must be some short generations to evolve that much in a few decades.
The Founders are masters of generic engineering, creating transforming the Vorta and Jem’Hadar from their precursor species to satisfy the needs of the Dominion. We’re not dealing with natural selection.
posted by nathan_teske at 5:22 PM on March 16, 2023 [7 favorites]
The Founders are masters of generic engineering, creating transforming the Vorta and Jem’Hadar from their precursor species to satisfy the needs of the Dominion. We’re not dealing with natural selection.
posted by nathan_teske at 5:22 PM on March 16, 2023 [7 favorites]
The Founders are masters of generic engineering, creating transforming the Vorta and Jem’Hadar from their precursor species to satisfy the needs of the Dominion. We’re not dealing with natural selection.
Totally, just found it weird that Beverley was all dramatic-like, this isn't engineered, it's evolution.
posted by Marticus at 5:24 PM on March 16, 2023 [2 favorites]
Totally, just found it weird that Beverley was all dramatic-like, this isn't engineered, it's evolution.
posted by Marticus at 5:24 PM on March 16, 2023 [2 favorites]
Well, to be fair, human evolution progresses at the pace it does as we typically take decades to pass on our DNA. I imagine that whatever serves the founders as DNA gets shared pretty readily in their big... cuddle puddle.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 6:32 PM on March 16, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by ricochet biscuit at 6:32 PM on March 16, 2023 [1 favorite]
Also, too, Odo was once turned into a human being by the Great Link, indistinguishable from any other human except for his face, so they've already had experience passing one of their own off as a solid.
posted by Halloween Jack at 6:41 PM on March 16, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by Halloween Jack at 6:41 PM on March 16, 2023 [3 favorites]
Was Shaw humming 'Don't you, forget about me' ?
Ro Laren/ Michelle Forbes!! Oh no!!
Jack's brain zaps are remarkably evocative of my own. Too bad mine don't have superpowers attached.
Wasn't Starfleet infiltrated by brain slugs at one point?
I think that we're being overly anthropocentric here. Changelings are amorphous, perhaps they have a very different recombination paradigm than us. I could see two blobs melding, then unmelding into three blobs, possibly of various sizes where the third is a recombination of both genetic material and its support system. The original two blobs could maintain their original genetic material or be a recombinant. 'Generation time' gets whole new meanings in this scenario.
I could see a caste that might develop as a "sin eater" to absorb undesirable genes, or a deliberate miscarriage where the third is a vestigial dumping ground byproduct. Inferring from chatter, there is a mind-pool like (original d&d) mindflayers', then this process could be really draconian.
posted by porpoise at 6:55 PM on March 16, 2023 [1 favorite]
Ro Laren/ Michelle Forbes!! Oh no!!
Jack's brain zaps are remarkably evocative of my own. Too bad mine don't have superpowers attached.
Wasn't Starfleet infiltrated by brain slugs at one point?
I think that we're being overly anthropocentric here. Changelings are amorphous, perhaps they have a very different recombination paradigm than us. I could see two blobs melding, then unmelding into three blobs, possibly of various sizes where the third is a recombination of both genetic material and its support system. The original two blobs could maintain their original genetic material or be a recombinant. 'Generation time' gets whole new meanings in this scenario.
I could see a caste that might develop as a "sin eater" to absorb undesirable genes, or a deliberate miscarriage where the third is a vestigial dumping ground byproduct. Inferring from chatter, there is a mind-pool like (original d&d) mindflayers', then this process could be really draconian.
posted by porpoise at 6:55 PM on March 16, 2023 [1 favorite]
okay with all the DS9 Acknowledgment that they're doing, I am placing all of my fanservice chips on "we get a scene with Dr. Bashir and his husband Garak by the end of the season"
please don't let me down
posted by DoctorFedora at 12:47 AM on March 17, 2023 [15 favorites]
please don't let me down
posted by DoctorFedora at 12:47 AM on March 17, 2023 [15 favorites]
If we do get a Jellico that’s been replaced by a Changeling, I hope he’s asked what he thinks of Troi’s uniform. If he says “I love it! We could use some Betazoid style on the bridge!l”, they blast him.
posted by dr_dank at 4:39 AM on March 17, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by dr_dank at 4:39 AM on March 17, 2023 [3 favorites]
This was the one where it finally clicked for me and I went from completionist hate-watching, almost dreading to see how ham-fistedly they cribbed off Wrath of Khan/Search for Spock, and into trusting that a majority of the writing staff are doing this out of love and not a paycheque.
I've held off contributing to the discussions because all I had until today were mostly eyerolls and snark. But to get Shaw dissing the lads to their faces, gleeful in their impending court-martials, then Ro, then clo-ro-sure, and her being the link into the Raffi/Worf story, her distrust of Starfleet being the perfect motivation for who she was as a character and how that conflicted with Picard (who is no stranger to dealing with Badmirals)... well, I'm a changed viewer now.
Ro Laren: "I'm giving you what you gave me all those years ago. A fighting chance"
Compared with STIII: TSfS
Kirk: "My God Bones, what have I done?"
McCoy: "What you had to do, what you always do. Turn death into a fighting chance to live."
That bit caused chills.
posted by Molesome at 5:18 AM on March 17, 2023 [11 favorites]
I've held off contributing to the discussions because all I had until today were mostly eyerolls and snark. But to get Shaw dissing the lads to their faces, gleeful in their impending court-martials, then Ro, then clo-ro-sure, and her being the link into the Raffi/Worf story, her distrust of Starfleet being the perfect motivation for who she was as a character and how that conflicted with Picard (who is no stranger to dealing with Badmirals)... well, I'm a changed viewer now.
Ro Laren: "I'm giving you what you gave me all those years ago. A fighting chance"
Compared with STIII: TSfS
Kirk: "My God Bones, what have I done?"
McCoy: "What you had to do, what you always do. Turn death into a fighting chance to live."
That bit caused chills.
posted by Molesome at 5:18 AM on March 17, 2023 [11 favorites]
even a soulless mf like myself shed a tear during this episode - well done I'd say.
posted by some loser at 5:56 AM on March 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by some loser at 5:56 AM on March 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
Amused by how many people on Reddit said "look, Admiral Cain from BSG is on Picard!" and then either forgot she was Ro, or never knew. Every time I've seen Michelle Forbes in anything, I just go "Ensign Ro!"
Shaw is the best thing I didn't know I needed in Trek. He's not a Kirk, not exactly a Lower Decks character. I would be interested to see him in a separate Trek show, or at least learn about why the heck he's in Starfleet exactly.
posted by bitterkitten at 7:41 AM on March 17, 2023 [5 favorites]
Shaw is the best thing I didn't know I needed in Trek. He's not a Kirk, not exactly a Lower Decks character. I would be interested to see him in a separate Trek show, or at least learn about why the heck he's in Starfleet exactly.
posted by bitterkitten at 7:41 AM on March 17, 2023 [5 favorites]
Ah, Ro Laren. *siiiiiigh*
I'm sort of wondering if Jack is another Rogue Changeling, and the rest of the Rogue Great Link is hunting him down for crimes against the Link (viz: not coming to the cuddle puddle).
posted by Kyol at 7:47 AM on March 17, 2023 [2 favorites]
I'm sort of wondering if Jack is another Rogue Changeling, and the rest of the Rogue Great Link is hunting him down for crimes against the Link (viz: not coming to the cuddle puddle).
posted by Kyol at 7:47 AM on March 17, 2023 [2 favorites]
I still think Deanna is going to get fridged
They just fridged Ro. Do you think they'll do it to a second beloved character?
[the Devron anti-time thing] was one of Q’s games and never actually happened
I've always interpreted "All Good Things..." as having 'actually happened', at least enough that JL remembers it and can report on it. Q's actions in it aren't one of his typical games; they're Q aiding JL in stopping the destruction in the only way he can - indirectly, through suggestions and bread crumbs. Yes, Q wraps it up into the larger 'trial' narrative but that doesn't necessarily change the underlying meat of the action; he might just be trying to save face.
posted by hanov3r at 8:20 AM on March 17, 2023 [2 favorites]
They just fridged Ro. Do you think they'll do it to a second beloved character?
[the Devron anti-time thing] was one of Q’s games and never actually happened
I've always interpreted "All Good Things..." as having 'actually happened', at least enough that JL remembers it and can report on it. Q's actions in it aren't one of his typical games; they're Q aiding JL in stopping the destruction in the only way he can - indirectly, through suggestions and bread crumbs. Yes, Q wraps it up into the larger 'trial' narrative but that doesn't necessarily change the underlying meat of the action; he might just be trying to save face.
posted by hanov3r at 8:20 AM on March 17, 2023 [2 favorites]
This show is vexing. On one hand I love it, anticipate each week's episode and enjoy every minute of watching it. On the other hand it just seems so transparently awful in so much of the writing. The dialog is clumsy, the plots are scattered and confusing, the whole thing is just kind of a mess.
I finally realized what makes it work. The fan service. Well that's the perjorative term. The kinder way to say it is they do a great jobe revisiting a show that is so meaningful to so many of us and has such depth. In that sense it's a lot like how we felt about Star Wars only instead of a bunch of crappy movies being made we get this uneven TV show with flashes of brilliance rooted in its lore.
We are all super excited to see Ro Laren. Why? Because she's an awesome character! And a great actor. I envy anyone who avoided the spoiler on that; it must have been such a thrill. They did an excellent job revisiting her character and then evolving it in an interesting way that felt true. Patrick Stewart's no slouch here either and all through this Picard show the most effective scenes have been the ones where they revisit the more interesting parts of his character.
The show isn't all revisiting past glories. Captain Asshole is a terrific addition as is Vadic. And Frakes is doing his best gamely playing the straight man, doing new things rather than revisiting the past. But other parts fall flat like any scene involving the Raffi capers. All in all the show feels a bit like watching a summer camp variety show only three of the kids on stage are brilliant actors doing the sci-fi equivalent of Shakespeare.
posted by Nelson at 10:08 AM on March 17, 2023 [10 favorites]
I finally realized what makes it work. The fan service. Well that's the perjorative term. The kinder way to say it is they do a great jobe revisiting a show that is so meaningful to so many of us and has such depth. In that sense it's a lot like how we felt about Star Wars only instead of a bunch of crappy movies being made we get this uneven TV show with flashes of brilliance rooted in its lore.
We are all super excited to see Ro Laren. Why? Because she's an awesome character! And a great actor. I envy anyone who avoided the spoiler on that; it must have been such a thrill. They did an excellent job revisiting her character and then evolving it in an interesting way that felt true. Patrick Stewart's no slouch here either and all through this Picard show the most effective scenes have been the ones where they revisit the more interesting parts of his character.
The show isn't all revisiting past glories. Captain Asshole is a terrific addition as is Vadic. And Frakes is doing his best gamely playing the straight man, doing new things rather than revisiting the past. But other parts fall flat like any scene involving the Raffi capers. All in all the show feels a bit like watching a summer camp variety show only three of the kids on stage are brilliant actors doing the sci-fi equivalent of Shakespeare.
posted by Nelson at 10:08 AM on March 17, 2023 [10 favorites]
They just fridged Ro. Do you think they'll do it to a second beloved character?
The scuttlebutt in Trek circles is that Michelle Forbes, as a condition of agreeing to do the guest spot, wanted Ro killed. No idea if it's true, but it would fit with her attitude towards reprising the character, which was basically hostile. Now she will never have to be bugged about it again.
posted by rhymedirective at 12:52 PM on March 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
The scuttlebutt in Trek circles is that Michelle Forbes, as a condition of agreeing to do the guest spot, wanted Ro killed. No idea if it's true, but it would fit with her attitude towards reprising the character, which was basically hostile. Now she will never have to be bugged about it again.
posted by rhymedirective at 12:52 PM on March 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
Why doesn't anyone have those single person transporter devices like the one that Data slapped on Picard 30 years ago? Seems like they would be useful in all sorts of situations.
posted by biffa at 1:31 PM on March 17, 2023
posted by biffa at 1:31 PM on March 17, 2023
I think personal use transporters in Universe use VAST amounts of energy and are cumbersome so kinda like carry a car battery with you everywhere just in case your mobile phone battery dies?
Which is why most people don't use them unless they know the situation they are going into might require one
posted by Faintdreams at 1:41 PM on March 17, 2023
Which is why most people don't use them unless they know the situation they are going into might require one
posted by Faintdreams at 1:41 PM on March 17, 2023
> Why doesn't anyone have those single person transporter devices like the one that Data slapped on Picard 30 years ago?
I think personal use transporters in Universe use VAST amounts of energy and are cumbersome
This is resolved by the 32nd century - DISCO features lots of personal transporter stuff.
posted by hanov3r at 1:56 PM on March 17, 2023 [2 favorites]
I think personal use transporters in Universe use VAST amounts of energy and are cumbersome
This is resolved by the 32nd century - DISCO features lots of personal transporter stuff.
posted by hanov3r at 1:56 PM on March 17, 2023 [2 favorites]
I think personal use transporters in Universe use VAST amounts of energy and are cumbersome
The one Data uses in Nemesis was the size of a modern day memory stick.
posted by biffa at 2:19 PM on March 17, 2023
The one Data uses in Nemesis was the size of a modern day memory stick.
posted by biffa at 2:19 PM on March 17, 2023
I mean, if there’s one thing Star Trek has never been, it’s inconsistent!
posted by rhymedirective at 2:21 PM on March 17, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by rhymedirective at 2:21 PM on March 17, 2023 [4 favorites]
Why doesn't anyone have those single person transporter devices like the one that Data slapped on Picard 30 years ago?
How about a space suit? It's a small, light ship, how do they not have survival gear? It's like having a fishing boat and no life vests. There's only 5 episodes left - you can't just rely on plot armor!
posted by PlusDistance at 7:18 PM on March 17, 2023 [3 favorites]
How about a space suit? It's a small, light ship, how do they not have survival gear? It's like having a fishing boat and no life vests. There's only 5 episodes left - you can't just rely on plot armor!
posted by PlusDistance at 7:18 PM on March 17, 2023 [3 favorites]
Was that actually a teleporter or so much as a dedicated button that activated the Enterprise’s system? It kept a constant lock on the wearer?
posted by Atreides at 2:45 PM on March 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Atreides at 2:45 PM on March 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
The Worf/Raffi "fight to the death" was stupid. Lampshading it as a hackneyed cliche doesn't make it not be a hackneyed cliche.
The rest of the episode was mostly pretty good.
posted by kyrademon at 3:52 PM on March 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
The rest of the episode was mostly pretty good.
posted by kyrademon at 3:52 PM on March 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
Was that actually a teleporter or so much as a dedicated button that activated the Enterprise’s system?
No, it was an emergency transporter, the Enterprise's transporter system was down.
posted by biffa at 4:38 AM on March 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
No, it was an emergency transporter, the Enterprise's transporter system was down.
posted by biffa at 4:38 AM on March 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
Did Riker do some intelligence work over the past 20+ years? First picking up on Beverley's code and now recognizing the earring to be a memory stick. It's good to see familiar characters show competence in new areas instead of just being the same as they used to be.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 8:50 AM on April 26, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 8:50 AM on April 26, 2023 [1 favorite]
vulcan villaain ♫
vulcan villaain ♫
worf be chillin'
vulcaaaann. v v v v villlaaaaaaaan
vulcaaaann ♫♫♫♫♫ villln
posted by lalochezia at 8:21 PM on May 2, 2023
vulcan villaain ♫
worf be chillin'
vulcaaaann. v v v v villlaaaaaaaan
vulcaaaann ♫♫♫♫♫ villln
posted by lalochezia at 8:21 PM on May 2, 2023
By the way, Krinn the Vulcan gangster is Kirk Acevedo, another 12 Monkeys alum.
posted by Naberius at 10:37 PM on August 23, 2023
posted by Naberius at 10:37 PM on August 23, 2023
Which CheesesofBrazil said up at the top. sigh…
posted by Naberius at 7:39 PM on August 24, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Naberius at 7:39 PM on August 24, 2023 [1 favorite]
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My money's on Geordi. And I still think Deanna is going to get fridged.
Reddit spoiled the Ro reveal for me a couple of days ago, but it was fun to see her and to have the question of what happened to her finally settled canonically. I really could not be sure if she was legit or a Changeling until the holodeck scene, so that was well done.
I don't think this was better than last week's episode, but it was pretty solid, and now we have the connection to the Worf/Raffi B-story. The writers do a lot better when they stick to action than when they have to develop story. I am definitely engaged in this, where in Season 2 I threw up my hands in despair around the middle of the season. Genuinnely interested to see where they go with this now that they have implicated pretty much all of Starfleet.
posted by briank at 6:02 AM on March 16, 2023 [3 favorites]